NXR Podcast - THE FRIDAY SPECIAL - Hollow Earth | The Last Living Dragons & Primary Water w Haunted Cosmos
Aired: 2024-04-12
Duration: 01:21:03


=== Hollow Earth Ecosystems (14:26) ===

[00:00:03]  Even the great C.S. Lewis was powerfully captivated by the mysterious legends of Hollow Earth.
[00:00:09]  There is one peculiar passage from the Silver Chair of the Chronicles of Narnia where Lewis provides us with a small glimpse into Bism, a secret world which lies deep within the Earth.
[00:00:23]  Are there other lands still lower down? asked Eustace.
[00:00:26]  Oh yes, Your Honor, said Gold.
[00:00:29]  Lovely places, what we call the land of Bism.
[00:00:32]  This country where we are now, the Witch's Country, is what we call the shallow lands.
[00:00:37]  It's a good deal too near the surface to suit us.
[00:00:40]  Ah, you might almost as well be living outside, on the surface itself.
[00:00:46]  Down there, said Golg, I could show you real gold, real silver, real diamonds.
[00:00:52]  Bosh, said Jill rudely, as if we didn't know that we're below the deepest mines even here?
[00:00:57]  Yes, said Golg.
[00:00:59]  I've heard of those little scratches in the crust that you top-dwellers call mines.
[00:01:04]  But that's where you get dead gold.
[00:01:06]  Dead silver, dead gems.
[00:01:09]  Down in Bism, we have alive and growing.
[00:01:12]  There, I'll pick up bunches of rubies that you can eat and squeeze you a cup of diamond juice.
[00:01:19]  You won't care much about fingering the cold dead treasures of your shallow minds after you have tasted the live ones of Bism.
[00:01:27]  My father went to the world's end, said Rillian thoughtfully.
[00:01:31]  It must be a marvelous thing if his son went to the bottom of the world.
[00:01:40]  Here we are, C.S. Lewis.
[00:01:41]  Absolutely.
[00:01:42]  I mean, some would say that this is fantastical in fiction, but we know that he's writing really just history.
[00:01:47]  It's just nonfiction.
[00:01:48]  It's nonfiction.
[00:01:48]  It's bism is real.
[00:01:49]  Yeah, it's bism is real.
[00:01:51]  C.S. Lewis is giving us an eyewitness account.
[00:01:53]  We can only assume he's just choosing to use characters.
[00:01:56]  That's a safe assumption to be made.
[00:01:58]  The point is this C.S. Lewis, Hollow Earth fan, at least a fan.
[00:02:03]  And that's what we want to start with.
[00:02:05]  So I'm just going to lay out a bit of an outline for this episode Hollow Earth Theory, its main components.
[00:02:11]  It's theory, it's history, some of the guys who are involved.
[00:02:14]  After that, we want to talk about a spiritual reality that we think has physical components as well, which would be a hollow earth applied to the biblical narrative of Sheol, the realm of the dead, not hell.
[00:02:24]  We'll draw some distinctions, but Sheol, the realm of the dead, with different places, a place of paradise, Abraham's bosom, those kinds of things.
[00:02:31]  So we'll move from hollow earth to Sheol, then from Sheol and hollow earth, getting the concept of primary water theory that a lot of people are probably unfamiliar with, but is.
[00:02:41]  All but fact at this point.
[00:02:44]  It has a major growing consensus of notable scientists, and it gets into even the character of God.
[00:02:51]  Is God capricious?
[00:02:53]  Is he sinister?
[00:02:54]  Did he command us to be fruitful, multiply, knowing that obedience to that command would bring about our own demise, that we would have the overpopulation myth?
[00:03:04]  No, it's not a zero sum game.
[00:03:06]  The pie can grow, that water is not a finite, recycled resource, but a renewable and infinite.
[00:03:13]  It's constantly being produced.
[00:03:14]  So, primary water theory.
[00:03:15]  And then, in terms of applications, applying that to the beautification of the earth, eradicating deserts, getting rid of the Sahara, making it a garden, a city, a paradise.
[00:03:26]  Talking about not just the location, we're going to talk about the location of the lost city of Atlantis, but not just the location, but the very real possible restoration of Atlantis, bringing it back to its redeemed greater glory in human history, not just when Jesus returns, but progressively leading up to it.
[00:03:46]  So, restoration of earth.
[00:03:48]  The discovery and restoration of Atlantis, and then applying primary water theory and hollow earth theory to other places like Mars with polar ice caps, proof of water, underground oceans that scientists are already speculating about.
[00:04:03]  Could Mars become a habitable place, habitable place, hospitable place to human life, vegetation, these kinds of things?
[00:04:15]  And then, lastly, primary water theory, hollow earth.
[00:04:18]  Shield these components as it pertains to elongated human lifespans, right?
[00:04:24]  Not just that we're the lesser sons of former sires that lived for 900 years, but that Isaiah 65 could actually be fulfilled in human history before the final physical return of Christ.
[00:04:36]  Isaiah 65 that says the youth shall die at 100.
[00:04:40]  Right now, lifespans have already been increased to the point if somebody dies at 45 and it was a few hundred years ago, we'd say they lived a full life.
[00:04:47]  If somebody dies at 45 today, we say, He was just a kid.
[00:04:51]  But Isaiah 65 says that the youth shall die at 100, presupposing or at least implying that you could have 400, 500, maybe even back to 900 year lifespans.
[00:05:01]  What if Christ is so potent in his victory that he comes to make his blessings flow as far as the curse is found and that we actually hit a thousand year, an even greater lifespan to say that the second Adam and his victory dwarfs the first Adam in his sin?
[00:05:22]  And failure.
[00:05:22]  So, we're going to be talking about Hollow Earth Theory, Shield, Primary Water, Atlantis, Mars being cultivated, and the Lost Fountain of Youth.
[00:05:33]  Here we go.
[00:05:33]  No small task.
[00:05:34]  How much time do we have, Joel?
[00:05:36]  We're going to give it our very best.
[00:05:38]  It may end up being a two part, we'll see, but let's start with the first thing on the list.
[00:05:43]  What is Hollow Earth Theory?
[00:05:44]  Who are some of the components?
[00:05:45]  Why does it matter?
[00:05:47]  So, the first main character to promote this idea of Hollow Earth, which basically just says, That the outer surface that we live on, in the most extreme case, is a shell.
[00:05:58]  And inside of that shell, there are subsequent concentric spheres or other shells that kind of revolve around each other.
[00:06:05]  And one of them might be very hot and very bright.
[00:06:08]  Some of them might be filled with oceans.
[00:06:10]  And there may even be living creatures or plants, entire lands, entire other worlds within our own.
[00:06:16]  That's the most extreme, the version that we're all familiar with from sci fi works like Journey to the Center of the Earth.
[00:06:23]  King Kong, Godzilla.
[00:06:24]  Yeah, King Kong, Godzilla.
[00:06:25]  But the first man to promote this idea.
[00:06:28]  Seriously, was Edmund Hillary.
[00:06:31]  No, Edmund Hillary.
[00:06:32]  Actually, no.
[00:06:34]  If it was Edmund Hillary, we could only hope that that person went to jail.
[00:06:40]  Is Haley's first name Edmund?
[00:06:41]  Yeah, Edmund Haley.
[00:06:42]  Okay, you hear half of it.
[00:06:43]  Yeah, so the first man to really promote this idea is Edmund Haley, and he's the guy of Haley's Comets fame.
[00:06:50]  And so he is a legitimate scientist, friend of Isaac Newton, he's a royal scientist.
[00:06:54]  He actually studied under the first James Flamstead.
[00:06:58]  Royal scientist, which is very exciting.
[00:07:01]  So he's a credentialed guy.
[00:07:03]  Right.
[00:07:04]  And he noticed the polar shifts in the Earth, in the Earth's magnetic field.
[00:07:09]  He's trying to solve some problems from observing magnetic issues, how the Earth's magnetic field was generated and how.
[00:07:17]  He's trying to reconcile issues in the physical model of his day.
[00:07:20]  The fact that over time, north on your compass begins to shift and change.
[00:07:24]  And so he's trying to account for that.
[00:07:26]  And instead of magma underneath the core and being this fluid thing, well, it's because it's all fluid in this movie.
[00:07:33]  He's saying, but what if there's actually concentric spheres and there's a magnetic sphere that's more iron and more this and more that that's moving at a different speed than the outer surface or even a slightly different direction?
[00:07:44]  And that's what's causing these changes to the compass and what's accounting for North and those kinds of things.
[00:07:50]  He was a serious scientist.
[00:07:51]  Yeah, very serious guy.
[00:07:52]  And he was positing this idea that, well, this could help explain.
[00:07:56]  Right.
[00:07:56]  And was Haley even promoting the idea of civilizations or anything at all under the earth?
[00:08:01]  He was simply positing a physical model for the makeup of the earth itself.
[00:08:06]  Some of these later Jules Verne type, possibly mythologies, possibly.
[00:08:11]  True.
[00:08:12]  Maybe they're.
[00:08:13]  Maybe they happened.
[00:08:14]  Right.
[00:08:14]  Maybe they happened.
[00:08:15]  It's more just a geological model.
[00:08:16]  He was just trying to figure out how the earth works.
[00:08:19]  Right?
[00:08:19]  What's the model?
[00:08:20]  And then Haley, the guy who takes the baton from him would be John Simes.
[00:08:24]  Yeah.
[00:08:25]  Who is an army ranger or an army officer.
[00:08:28]  He's not actually a scientist.
[00:08:30]  But he gives a series of lectures and writings in the early 1800s that promote this idea that Haley first came up with.
[00:08:37]  But then he takes it a step further and he starts to say, well, there could be entire ecosystems, entire civilizations that are under our feet and we have to go find them.
[00:08:47]  Yeah.
[00:08:48]  And it's this whole other land full of riches and life and wealth and or dragons and.
[00:08:52]  Yeah.
[00:08:53]  Fire and a whole nother sun and ocean.
[00:08:55]  Yeah.
[00:08:55]  All of these fantastic things.
[00:08:57]  Classic 19th century explorer type of spirit.
[00:08:59]  Yeah.
[00:09:00]  And he actually.
[00:09:00]  Spirit.
[00:09:01]  He tried to get government approval and funding to take an expedition to the North Pole.
[00:09:05]  Which worked.
[00:09:05]  Not for him, but for the next guy.
[00:09:07]  Go ahead.
[00:09:07]  Not for him.
[00:09:08]  But, and so everyone said no.
[00:09:10]  But the problem was his ideas were so popular that it could no longer be ignored.
[00:09:14]  The public ran with it.
[00:09:15]  Right.
[00:09:16]  And they loved science.
[00:09:17]  What's a better story?
[00:09:18]  Right.
[00:09:18]  Yeah.
[00:09:18]  It's a better story.
[00:09:19]  It's a way better story.
[00:09:20]  And then that gives birth.
[00:09:20]  So that gives birth to another naval officer, Reynolds, I believe, is one of the next guys who actually does.
[00:09:27]  An expedition, an Arctic expedition, and is trying to map out the Arctic and see if he begins to conceptualize that there actually might be openings at the two poles, polar openings to these lower levels of worlds beneath worlds, to Bism.
[00:09:46]  So he's now trying to go and chart these things out.
[00:09:48]  And then the last guy, most recent, 1910 to 1977.
[00:09:52]  So this guy has only been dead for less than 50 years, and that's Richard E. Byrd.
[00:09:58]  And then Byrd claims.
[00:10:01]  That on one of his expeditions, that he actually found one of the entrances to Hollow Earth in the Southern Arctic, I think.
[00:10:10]  Yeah, it was the Antarctic South Pole area.
[00:10:13]  And he writes in his diary how he goes in.
[00:10:16]  He went in and found giants, giants, civilizations, advanced technology.
[00:10:22]  Yeah.
[00:10:23]  And all that's in his diary that his son published after his death.
[00:10:27]  And that leaves us, you know, about up to date in terms of.
[00:10:30]  So that's some of the main key players.
[00:10:33]  The way that the theory has progressed.
[00:10:36]  In the modern age.
[00:10:37]  Right, in the modern age.
[00:10:38]  Exactly, yeah.
[00:10:39]  So, I mean, we'll go back to the ancients and talk about some of that and different conceptions.
[00:10:43]  But that's just the modern age, beginning with Haley from a very strict scientific approach.
[00:10:50]  This was not a fiction author.
[00:10:53]  He's saying, no, I think this is real.
[00:10:56]  And the only thing that begins to develop further from Haley is the idea that these concentric spheres, that there may be space between them.
[00:11:04]  And that's where, of course, you have theories such as Ben's shock.
[00:11:07]  Theory, a commonly known theory.
[00:11:08]  You can find it on Wikipedia.
[00:11:10]  That's right.
[00:11:11]  We have a whole episode on that, a bonus episode.
[00:11:13]  I'll plug that real quick.
[00:11:14]  If you want to find out more about the history, the key players in the theory of Hollow Earth and how it works from a scientific perspective, join us on Patreon.
[00:11:22]  You can become a Patreon member and we're going to have a few bonus episodes and that's one of them.
[00:11:27]  But the shock theory, quick synopsis with that is just saying, just like bones are porous.
[00:11:32]  Yeah.
[00:11:32]  Right.
[00:11:33]  So, saying, okay, so we're not saying that you have these layers, concentric spheres, and that they're not touching.
[00:11:39]  We're saying, no, there are pillars and columns and all these different things, porous, like the inside of a bone, and that that actually would be advantageous to make the earth more durable, flexible, give with certain seismic shifts, earthquakes, strikes from a meteor, these kinds of things.
[00:11:55]  Or even gravitational anomalies.
[00:11:57]  It gives the earth a mechanical advantage to have some sort of internal damper that helps resist.
[00:12:04]  Gross spring like mechanical stress that it would experience from other heavenly bodies.
[00:12:10]  But what this allows for is not just spheres within spheres, but space in between that could feasibly, conceptually, it could accommodate its own heat source, light source, water, vegetation, life, creatures, atmosphere, a world within worlds.
[00:12:27]  Absolutely possible.
[00:12:29]  And anybody who says it's not is a liar.
[00:12:32]  So we're not saying that this is true.
[00:12:34]  But what we want to help you out throughout the course of this series is not us making definitive claims, this is true.
[00:12:42]  But what we will say definitively is that those who attempt to definitively say this is not true, they don't have a leg to stand on.
[00:12:51]  And part of the reason is because they can't get down there.
[00:12:53]  Yeah.
[00:12:54]  Because we've never even made it through the Earth's crust.
[00:12:56]  Not even close.
[00:12:57]  Not even close.
[00:12:57]  Let alone into the mantle, which supposedly makes up the bulk of the Earth.
[00:13:01]  Right.
[00:13:01]  And to put it into perspective, we're talking about approximately 8,000 miles from top to bottom of the Earth.
[00:13:08]  The crust being just like, I mean, think of an MM with a very thin candy, hard shell layer.
[00:13:13]  That's the crust.
[00:13:15]  So the crust is a very, in terms of depth, it is comparatively very small with the rest of the inside of the earth.
[00:13:22]  But still, the crust is a few hundred miles.
[00:13:25]  Right.
[00:13:25]  I think a couple hundred.
[00:13:26]  A little over a hundred.
[00:13:28]  And you have 3,900 to go to the center of the earth.
[00:13:32]  And the reality is, if you were to shrink the earth down to the size of a baseball and hold it in your hand and you took all the water off, The distance between the deepest trench and the highest ocean to you would be almost imperceptible.
[00:13:46]  Actually, I have heard Neil deGrasse Tyson say that at scale, the earth without any water is smoother than the cue ball at a pool table.
[00:13:54]  It's that it's smoother than a pool.
[00:13:56]  We're so small that we look at these things and we say they're here with Everest, with the Mariana Trench.
[00:14:00]  You actually wouldn't even feel it on your finger.
[00:14:02]  Wow.
[00:14:02]  It's just so, yeah, if it was the size of a pool.
[00:14:05]  Tiny, tiny to us.
[00:14:06]  And we're talking Everest going up 26,000 feet, I think, and change.
[00:14:10]  28,000.
[00:14:11]  Yeah.
[00:14:11]  When we go down to the crust now, that's a couple, that's like five miles.
[00:14:15]  We're looking at a couple hundred miles, and even that is nothing.
[00:14:21]  The shell.
[00:14:21]  Gold, when he says that, oh, those things you call mines, those are just scratches on the surface.
[00:14:26]  Lewis actually got that right.
[00:14:29]  He got that right.

=== Tiny Worlds Beneath Us (03:54) ===

[00:14:30]  That is correct.
[00:14:31]  Point is, you're talking about 100 miles in comparison with 8,000.
[00:14:36]  So just going to the center of the earth and not all the way through, yeah, exactly, would be 3,900.
[00:14:41]  Yeah.
[00:14:41]  Which is still negligible.
[00:14:42]  But just giving guys the scale.
[00:14:44]  All right, so real quick, so now let's talk about the spiritual application and ancients going.
[00:14:48]  So now we're going way beyond Haley.
[00:14:50]  Going back in time and talking about how this goes with the conception of Sheol, the realm of the dead, and not just ancients who would prescribe to the scripture, but also Greek mythology and all these different ideas Hades and Hercules going to rescue his love and those kinds of things that there very likely is a reality to speak of there.
[00:15:14]  But as we do that, I think it's also worth, you know, because I feel like I've promised it, or at least in my head, I promised it.
[00:15:21]  But in terms of creatures, like, I think that it's at least plausible that you could, we're not just talking about single celled organisms, you know, or certain, whatever, you know, amoebas or insects, yeah, like, or bacteria.
[00:15:38]  I mean, this could explain, like, dinosaurs, dragons, sea serpents.
[00:15:44]  There's been some pictures that have come out recently.
[00:15:47]  That are blurry creatures, of course, of course because uh, you know, creatures that don't want to have their picture taken are always blurry.
[00:15:53]  But off the coast of Antarctica, of these things crawling around the surface that are just bizarre.
[00:16:00]  And you have stories of scientists that go to Antarctica hp Lovecraft riffed on this in his Mountains Of Madness, at the Mountains Of Madness, that these scientists claim that they see things that just should not be there, that are completely bizarre.
[00:16:15]  And there's creatures that are massive and they look like monsters and they're, and they're really Weird and they don't know where they go.
[00:16:21]  They seem to disappear behind the pyramids of Antarctica, of course.
[00:16:25]  I mean, there are pyramids in Antarctica.
[00:16:27]  You had the Nazis that were heavily invested in trying to conquer Antarctica, and they were also occultists, every single one of them.
[00:16:35]  And they were trying to do Nazi Bell experiments and all these types of things to open up things.
[00:16:41]  We don't really know the details in Antarctica because they were so sure that there's something there that we don't know about yet.
[00:16:49]  That would be valuable.
[00:16:51]  And America was trying to do it too.
[00:16:53]  They weren't the only ones, I mean, they probably invested more.
[00:16:56]  But think about that the whole world is against you, right?
[00:16:58]  With Germany.
[00:16:59]  And it's going to take everything you got to try to win this war.
[00:17:04]  And you're thinking it's worth reserving some of your resources, your wealth, your time, your energy, your manpower to go and try to find this secret that could give you an advantage.
[00:17:16]  And it's not just the geographical locale.
[00:17:20]  Of an advantageous place to be able to go and invade another.
[00:17:24]  It's not just viewing Antarctica like that.
[00:17:27]  They actually thought there might be something there.
[00:17:29]  Something that could help them win the war.
[00:17:31]  So they dedicated not just some of their manpower, but actually some of their brightest minds to figuring this place out.
[00:17:38]  And it certainly captivated the mind of humanity in our mythology and the stories we tell from ancient times all the way up through.
[00:17:45]  I mean, I think of True Silver and Moria and the dwarves delving too deep and too greedily and what things were awakened in the deep places of the earth.
[00:17:54]  The Bell Rock with the Balrog, or with uh, in Paralandra, when Ransom, yeah, goes into the planet in a Venus, it's amazing.
[00:18:02]  Ransom descends into Venus and he sees a society of beings, and there's like this procession of ornate uh, parades going on underneath Venus.
[00:18:15]  And and he actually is worried at one point because he thinks they're not going to know that they have a king and queen on the surface, they're not going to know that they actually don't run this world, yeah.

=== Spiritual Revivification (16:52) ===

[00:18:24]  And then he's calmed quickly by by remembering.
[00:18:27]  Maybe they're just here because Malodil, God, delights in them.
[00:18:31]  He wants to see them here.
[00:18:32]  And he's the real king.
[00:18:34]  And so Lewis, all through his fiction.
[00:18:37]  All of it.
[00:18:37]  Including Till We Have Faces, which is just a retelling of a Greek myth that I'm sure we'll talk about with Persephone and Cupid and Psyche, and how you have to actually descend into this world and there's a whole other world within just because God likes it.
[00:18:52]  And it would be a glory for man to discover more of it.
[00:18:54]  And he actually, in doing so, will discover more about himself.
[00:18:57]  Real quick, before we continue with the show, you need to be aware that you're merely watching one episode of what's actually a 10 part series covering all things under the banner of high strangeness.
[00:19:09]  The 10 episodes include the following.
[00:19:11]  Number one, the lost city of Atlantis has just recently been discovered.
[00:19:16]  Episode number two, Hollow Earth, the last living dragons and primary water.
[00:19:22]  Episode number three, biblical giants, their clans, sizes, and supernatural abilities.
[00:19:29]  Episode number four, mythological giants, Hercules was actually a Nephilim.
[00:19:35]  Episode number five, everyone has been wrong about Bigfoot.
[00:19:39]  Episode number six, Fairies, the elemental spirits.
[00:19:43]  Episode number seven, the biblical case for the existence of mermaids.
[00:19:49]  Episode number eight, ghosts.
[00:19:51]  That's not your grandma, that's a demon.
[00:19:54]  Episode number nine, witches, necromancy, and familiar spirits.
[00:19:59]  And lastly, episode 10, angels, their classifications, physicality, and sexes.
[00:20:07]  Now, all 10 of these episodes are available ad free.
[00:20:11]  Right now, exclusively on Patreon.
[00:20:15]  These episodes are only dropping one at a time over a series of multiple weeks, but you can get them all available today ad free, plus the addition of two exclusive bonus episodes at patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
[00:20:34]  Again, it's exclusively found at patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
[00:20:43]  Go and check them out today and now.
[00:20:45]  Back to our program.
[00:20:47]  Too often, modern scientism and scientific rationalism and the way that we think about the world is we ask the question of what and how pretty pervasively.
[00:20:58]  And that's good.
[00:20:59]  That's a Proverbs 25, 2.
[00:21:01]  It's the glory of God to conceal a thing.
[00:21:03]  It's the glory of kings to search a thing out.
[00:21:05]  We have this instinct deep within us that even those who deny God's very being can't escape the instinct to ask why and how or the what and how.
[00:21:14]  But what they fail to ask is often why because they don't believe there is a why.
[00:21:19]  They don't believe that anything is for anything at all.
[00:21:22]  It just is.
[00:21:23]  But what Lewis understood as a medieval, what Lewis understood is that everything is for something.
[00:21:30]  And so we shouldn't just be asking of nature, what is it and how does it work?
[00:21:34]  We should also be asking, what would please God?
[00:21:37]  What would be glorious?
[00:21:38]  What would blow your mind?
[00:21:39]  What would blow your mind?
[00:21:39]  To the symphony of creation.
[00:21:41]  What would be just over the top in terms of beauty and glory and intricacy?
[00:21:47]  And we're so used to some of these things that we actually already know about.
[00:21:52]  that we don't realize that they are all absolutely mind-blowingly incredible.
[00:21:58]  We talk about Ben and I are writing a book right now for HANA Cosmos.
[00:22:02]  And one of the things we explore quite a bit in the book is just this idea of, okay, the world is not just stuff, but the world also is stuff.
[00:22:11]  And the stuff is pretty magnificent.
[00:22:13]  You know, when you think about something like, I don't know, a grasshopper that has this insane mechanical mechanism in its leg that it can leap the equivalent of you standing still.
[00:22:24]  And jumping a football field, it can do that, and it has its uh, it has its nose in its stomach, and it can't, you know, it's tone deaf apparently.
[00:22:34]  We've learned all these things about this little tiny grasshopper that most of us walk over or crunch under feet and don't think we don't think that much.
[00:22:41]  And I just think, what if you were the inventor of the grasshopper?
[00:22:44]  Like, would you bring that up at parties?
[00:22:46]  You'd want people to notice, like, the grasshopper, right?
[00:22:49]  And that's just a tiny little thing.
[00:22:51]  Imagine now, worlds and planets and the workings of the spheres of the heavens.
[00:22:57]  the medieval mind, they asked the why and we need to recover.
[00:23:01]  That's why Lewis is so great.
[00:23:02]  That's why Tolkien is so great.
[00:23:03]  But they also ask the why from a fundamental understanding of the world that it's not efficiency and pragmatism.
[00:23:10]  It's actually, it's rich.
[00:23:13]  It's beauty and glory.
[00:23:14]  It's like the backdrop of this set.
[00:23:16]  It's not just some drywall and some paint.
[00:23:20]  You got trim.
[00:23:21]  You got wainscoting.
[00:23:22]  You got paintings.
[00:23:23]  You have books.
[00:23:23]  That's how the world actually works.
[00:23:24]  I think we can agree that minimalism is gay.
[00:23:26]  Minimalism is fake.
[00:23:27]  I think we just agree.
[00:23:30]  In Christendom, it will be condemned.
[00:23:31]  Yep.
[00:23:32]  As a capitalist.
[00:23:33]  When we get our Protestant Franco, no more minimalism.
[00:23:37]  No more brutalism.
[00:23:38]  God didn't make a brutalist grasshopper.
[00:23:40]  No, no.
[00:23:41]  Yeah.
[00:23:42]  So the modern materialist is arrogant and often, with a subject like this, would ask the question, who cares?
[00:23:48]  Yeah, who cares?
[00:23:50]  And we want to ask and urge and encourage and challenge Christians to ask, why not?
[00:23:56]  Yeah.
[00:23:56]  Instead of who cares, why not?
[00:23:58]  Why not?
[00:23:58]  Until you prove otherwise, I'm going to hold to, not definitively claim that this is empirical, because I don't have the evidence to support that, but in terms of what's possible, I'm going within the depths of my God given imagination.
[00:24:14]  I'm going to assume the most glorious scenario because that gels better with my understanding from the biblical text of the character and nature of God than anything that's bland.
[00:24:25]  God is not boring.
[00:24:26]  And so, unless you can tell me that there's not a world beneath this world where dinosaurs and dragons and sea serpents and unicorns still exist, then I'm going to say it's possible.
[00:24:37]  In fact, knowing what I know about the character of God, I'm going to say that it might even be plausible.
[00:24:43]  And knowing what we know about the historical record, where it's not just in the Bible that we hear about Sheol.
[00:24:48]  It's all over history.
[00:24:51]  Every culture had an underworld and every culture started from one family, from Noah after the flood.
[00:24:58]  And so it would make sense that we have rhyming and harmony and slight twisting and corruption from the true story of Christianity.
[00:25:07]  But that doesn't mean that all of them are nonsense.
[00:25:09]  That actually means that all of them are based on something real.
[00:25:12]  And you don't just lose the element of real.
[00:25:15]  All of them are embellishments or corruptions.
[00:25:20]  They're lies made up of partial truths.
[00:25:23]  So let's go there now.
[00:25:23]  So let's talk about, so that's Hollow Earth and that's creatures, plausible creatures within a world under the world.
[00:25:31]  Now let's talk about Sheol, right?
[00:25:33]  And as we talk about Sheol, let's talk about the spiritual component.
[00:25:36]  But the big thing that we want to get at with Sheol is that the very real possibility that Sheol is not just has a spiritual component, but it's quite literal, actually within the earth.
[00:25:48]  That there actually is a place called Sheol, chasms, physical, literal chasms under the earth.
[00:25:55]  And that this was the dominant view for a very long time until all of a sudden the smartest generation was born.
[00:26:03]  So you can say that we're the first people who weren't stupid to ever live.
[00:26:08]  Well, that's just true.
[00:26:09]  Which is a very arrogant position to take.
[00:26:12]  Or you can say these guys are, it's worth exploring their ideas.
[00:26:18]  And for them, it was not, the world's not just stuff.
[00:26:20]  So certainly they're going to say it has a spiritual component.
[00:26:23]  But they also weren't Gnostics.
[00:26:25]  See, that's the thing.
[00:26:25]  We don't want to be materials.
[00:26:26]  We also don't want to be Gnostics.
[00:26:27]  So they would say, it's not just stuff.
[00:26:29]  There's a spiritual component.
[00:26:30]  It's not just spirit.
[00:26:31]  There's a literal component.
[00:26:33]  Hell beneath, sheol in this case, sheol beneath, heavens above, and a literal sense of the heavens being out there somewhere and hell actually being beneath our feet.
[00:26:45]  So sheol, Ben, Brian, can we talk about that?
[00:26:48]  Well, even if you just take, I mean, she's probably defining terms a little bit.
[00:26:52]  Sheol is a word in the Old Testament in Hebrew that's used as, Literally to speak about the grave, but also as the abode of the dead.
[00:27:01]  Right.
[00:27:01]  Like you might think of it as an underworld in other mythological accounts of similar ideas.
[00:27:09]  And it has many different components in scripture.
[00:27:11]  You can read, and it appears in Jonah is talking about going to Sheol in Psalm 86.
[00:27:15]  There are many passages in the Old Testament where Sheol is given multiple dimensions to its, like multiple features to its reality.
[00:27:25]  At minimum, it's certainly the grave in the sense that human beings go into the earth when we die.
[00:27:31]  Right.
[00:27:32]  So, At the minimum, we go into the earth.
[00:27:34]  We're buried.
[00:27:36]  The curse of the serpent is to eat the grave.
[00:27:39]  It's to eat dirt.
[00:27:40]  It's to eat the dust because his abode will ultimately be Sheol.
[00:27:45]  It will be the grave.
[00:27:46]  He will be the one who's cast into the lake of fire.
[00:27:49]  There's an element of suffering and of, in some conceptions, like fire and heat and darkness.
[00:27:57]  And it's a place where, you know, essentially where people are.
[00:28:03]  In the Psalms, for example, pleading with God to rescue.
[00:28:06]  Don't leave my soul to Sheol.
[00:28:09]  Abandon me.
[00:28:10]  In Psalm 16.
[00:28:13]  In Psalm 16, I said it's music.
[00:28:15]  I should remember it.
[00:28:16]  Yeah, you should remember it.
[00:28:17]  The metrical 1650 translates it to My soul, thou will not leave in hell, nor suffer wilt thou to leave thy holy one in sepulchre or corruption leave there too, something like that.
[00:28:30]  And it's clearly a messianic psalm.
[00:28:34]  And that later they say, well, David saw corruption.
[00:28:36]  Who wrote that?
[00:28:37]  But Jesus did not.
[00:28:39]  We see in the biblical record that Jesus goes into Sheol, which we preserve in our creeds, that Jesus descended into.
[00:28:46]  He descended.
[00:28:47]  And he led captivity captive.
[00:28:49]  So that his body was buried in the sepulchre.
[00:28:52]  And then, in a sense, that's Sheol, but that his spirit actually descended beyond that.
[00:28:56]  And we're saying that it's absolutely plausible that his spirit descended in a literal sense to the belly of the earth, beyond, much deeper than the grave.
[00:29:04]  And that.
[00:29:05]  In that place, that there were literal chasms divided into certain parts.
[00:29:09]  One, a place of paradise, Abraham's bosom, that were not yet in heaven with God because the way had not yet been attained.
[00:29:18]  So now Christ is leading a host of captives.
[00:29:20]  So they weren't tormented there.
[00:29:21]  They were in a place of paradise separated by a chasm between those who were in torment.
[00:29:25]  Uncrossable.
[00:29:26]  But exactly.
[00:29:28]  But then Jesus, now we would say that Old Testament saints have been transferred now into heaven and those who have died since the cross, that they're now in heaven as well.
[00:29:38]  To be absent in the body is to be present with the Lord.
[00:29:40]  But before that, the idea is not just a spiritual component, but in a literal component that Jesus in the spirit, so body in the grave for three days, in the spirit descended and proclaimed his victory, not giving a second chance or offer of redemption, but a Christ like nanny, nanny, boo, boo announcement.
[00:30:00]  I told you so.
[00:30:01]  I told you so.
[00:30:02]  Shaming these spirits, putting them to open shame, and then leading a host of captives, the saints, the righteous.
[00:30:12]  But that's actually not just a spiritual concept, but that it actually might be a place beneath our feet.
[00:30:17]  And we get that from in the writings of Samuel.
[00:30:19]  We hear about Saul going to visit the witch of Endor.
[00:30:21]  Yeah.
[00:30:23]  When he sees, and he's asking the witch to divine for him the ghost of Samuel.
[00:30:28]  And she's surprised when she realizes that, oh, oops, it's actually the ghost of Samuel.
[00:30:33]  It was supposed to be my familiar spirit, and it's not.
[00:30:36]  Don't do DMT, kids.
[00:30:37]  Don't do DMT.
[00:30:39]  And so Samuel rises up.
[00:30:42]  Out of the earth.
[00:30:42]  Out of the earth.
[00:30:43]  And that matters because he's dead.
[00:30:46]  Right.
[00:30:47]  And so he's where was he?
[00:30:48]  He was down there.
[00:30:49]  He was in the earth.
[00:30:50]  And here's the thing.
[00:30:50]  A lot of, well, he's a spirit.
[00:30:52]  It doesn't matter.
[00:30:53]  No.
[00:30:54]  He's a spirit.
[00:30:54]  Just because you're a spirit does not make you omnipresent.
[00:30:57]  No one is omnipresent apart from God.
[00:30:59]  So, spirits are geographically bound.
[00:31:01]  They're somewhere.
[00:31:02]  They are a physical locale.
[00:31:03]  They are in a place.
[00:31:04]  And so, Samuel rises from the earth.
[00:31:06]  You couple that with the parable in Matthew's gospel of Lazarus and the rich man.
[00:31:12]  And you hear how the rich man is separated from Lazarus by a chasm that he can't cross.
[00:31:17]  And yet, Lazarus and Abraham can see him and hear him.
[00:31:21]  And he can do the same.
[00:31:22]  He can see them and hear them.
[00:31:25]  And that is Abraham's bosom.
[00:31:27]  And so, now that Christ has ascended to the right hand of God, now that the work of salvation has been accomplished, He led Abraham's bosom, this paradise neighborhood of Sheol is what I've called it.
[00:31:37]  It's a neighborhood of Sheol that's paradisal.
[00:31:41]  And he has led that now to where Paul is right in saying that when he dies, his spirit is in the presence of the Lord.
[00:31:47]  Be with the Lord.
[00:31:47]  Right.
[00:31:48]  Who is seated at the right hand of the Father.
[00:31:50]  So obviously Christ is not still in Sheol.
[00:31:53]  Right.
[00:31:53]  And when we think about the way that the scriptures speak about these things, we tend to insert hidden premises of spiritual allegory and metaphor in sometimes ways that are uninterrogated.
[00:32:06]  Where the scriptures speak about the third heavens, right?
[00:32:09]  And the third heaven.
[00:32:10]  And the scriptures speak about the belly of the earth.
[00:32:12]  And then we just sort of translate that immediately in our modern conceptions of the spiritual and the physical.
[00:32:19]  We tend to conceive of them not being nested together, but being totally kind of hermetically sealed, separated realms in a way where it's like, oh, you're in heaven.
[00:32:27]  Where is heaven?
[00:32:28]  Well, it's nowhere.
[00:32:29]  It's spirit.
[00:32:30]  So it's nowhere.
[00:32:31]  It's strictly on a 17th dimension, ethereal plane, outside of.
[00:32:36]  The universe instead of, but what if it's in the universe?
[00:32:40]  And yet Christ ascends, as we were talking about last night in the hotel lobby, Christ ascends in his bodily form until he's hidden by a cloud.
[00:32:51]  And that's not a metaphor.
[00:32:53]  He goes up into the clouds.
[00:32:54]  And Paul says he gets a vision of the third heaven, or whether he's caught up there bodily, he doesn't know.
[00:32:59]  Even he doesn't know.
[00:33:00]  But this is what we're talking about.
[00:33:01]  But he's caught up.
[00:33:01]  His spirit is caught up, or his body's caught up.
[00:33:03]  But in the case of Jesus, this is why it's significant.
[00:33:05]  So Jesus now has his glorified body, and he appears.
[00:33:09]  Appears to the disciples and appears to over 500 eyewitnesses and has multiple appearances.
[00:33:14]  And in these appearances, we can tell that Jesus in his glorified body, so same body that was buried, but now made new.
[00:33:21]  So not a new body, meaning another body, but same body, but glorified, made new.
[00:33:26]  And that's a resurrection.
[00:33:27]  Like in the case of other people who were resurrected, the more technical and accurate word would be a revivification.
[00:33:33]  Right?
[00:33:33]  So like Lazarus is not glorified.
[00:33:37]  Still a seed.
[00:33:37]  He's revived, but it kind of sucks to be Lazarus, but he just ends up having to die twice.
[00:33:44]  But Jesus is raised as a first fruits.
[00:33:47]  So, otherwise, if it's not different, the resurrection and revivification being distinct, then Jesus wouldn't be the first fruits.
[00:33:54]  Lazarus and other, even before that, Elijah raising this woman's son, there would be other guys who would be first fruits because there were other resurrections, but rightly viewed, they're not being glorified.
[00:34:04]  It's revivifications, coming back from the dead, but with the same body.
[00:34:08]  Jesus is coming back with the same body, but now in a glorified state.
[00:34:12]  And in that glorified state, in his appearances with the apostles, he can appear.
[00:34:18]  With doors being locked.
[00:34:19]  And he can vanish.
[00:34:20]  And vanish.
[00:34:21]  Now, there's also the physical, literal component.
[00:34:23]  He can eat fish, and you could touch the wounds in his side or in his hands.
[00:34:28]  He can be seen, he could be touched, he can digest, he can eat.
[00:34:33]  But he also can, whether it's walking through the door or just vanishing out of, you know, or appearing out of thin air and then vanishing.
[00:34:40]  But here's the point as it goes back to the ascension.
[00:34:44]  In our creeds, and more importantly, scripture that the creeds are based upon, Why don't we have the incarnation, the life, the death, the burial, the resurrection, and the vanishing of Christ?
[00:34:54]  That last part, if you're listening closely, dear listener, that last part was a trick.
[00:35:00]  We don't have the vanishing of Christ.
[00:35:01]  We have the ascension.
[00:35:02]  And in the ascension, think about that.
[00:35:04]  He physically lifts from the ground because he could just vanish.
[00:35:06]  He's already proven that he could do that.
[00:35:08]  Just vanish and go to the 17th dimension, right?
[00:35:10]  Because you can't, ascending would be of no avail.
[00:35:12]  That doesn't help you because it's not a place that's above or below.
[00:35:15]  It's on another plane.

=== The Real Ascension (04:13) ===

[00:35:16]  It's strictly spiritual.
[00:35:17]  But that's not what happens.
[00:35:18]  He physically lifts up off the ground, ascends, and only becomes no longer visible because he just lifts for a while and then vanishes.
[00:35:28]  He goes in a cloud.
[00:35:29]  No, he gets behind a cloud.
[00:35:31]  Visibility is obstructed.
[00:35:33]  It's perfectly plausible to assume that he continues to ascend, going somewhere, someplace.
[00:35:40]  And he's seated now.
[00:35:41]  He's forever the God man, right?
[00:35:43]  So Jesus is in the flesh forevermore, and his flesh is seated on a throne.
[00:35:49]  Physical flesh seated on a physical throne at God's right hand.
[00:35:53]  We don't know exactly where.
[00:35:54]  Certainly a place where the spiritual component, I think, is heightened from our earthly existence.
[00:36:01]  And heightened to a degree and in certain measures and ways that we can't comprehend at this point.
[00:36:06]  But to say that it's only spiritual, that there's no physical component to angels or to heaven.
[00:36:12]  Now, God Himself, the Father and the Spirit, are most pure spirits without body parts and passions.
[00:36:16]  The Son is both the divine nature and the human nature.
[00:36:20]  But to say that heaven, not speaking of God, but heaven and angelic beings, that there's no physical element whatsoever is such a leap and an assumption beyond the biblical narrative.
[00:36:32]  I think it reeks of errors.
[00:36:34]  It's us translating, again, that hermetic seal between the physical and the spiritual instead of seeing them as nested together.
[00:36:44]  And that's actually a good thing, that God wanted it to be that way.
[00:36:49]  It's why, you know, when you look at, I come back to the medievals a lot and Lewis's understanding of the medievals.
[00:36:56]  I think because of his understanding of the medieval mind that was not, it didn't have, it had errors, but not the same ones that we have.
[00:37:02]  So it's very valuable to read them because when you look at the way they saw the world, you discover that, you know, when they looked at the idea of even, let's say, heaven, and Lewis in The Great Divorce does this well.
[00:37:19]  And it's then translated into The Last Battle in Narnia, where, of course, love not the things of this world, for the things of this world are passing away.
[00:37:30]  Don't marry yourself to this fallen creation, it is passing away.
[00:37:34]  And yet, I think Lewis conceptualized this well when he saw it as the door to the old Narnia closing, but then everything true and good and beautiful, the real true Narnia, it's not a floaty 17th dimensional spiritual place.
[00:37:51]  It's a new heavens and new earth.
[00:37:52]  It's really.
[00:37:53]  They're going to come further up and further in into the mountain.
[00:37:57]  In the Great Divorce, it's as if the world that the fallenness and the world is passing away, he almost conceives of it as like shrink.
[00:38:06]  It's so tiny, it's almost like a dust moat, it's insignificant.
[00:38:10]  And then you come up into the heaven, and it's like, it's true.
[00:38:13]  There's true color and there's true beauty.
[00:38:15]  And there's like, to me, that is a much more rich understanding of the physical and spiritual and the nesting together of the two than the way we often treat ourselves.
[00:38:26]  And that, you know, at one point, one of the characters further up and further in is it's all in Plato.
[00:38:30]  And the only thing, and I think there's something in Plato.
[00:38:32]  The only thing I would add to that is, and it's all in Plato, and a good bit is also in Aristotle, because the difference with what we, where we, Where I would disagree with C.S. Lewis and his conception, this is the last battle, the final, the Chronicles of Narnia series, is I would say that I think Lewis got it right, but he only got half of it right.
[00:38:51]  The other half is, but then eventually the old Narnia that you're mourning, that one was actually also real.
[00:38:57]  It was not just something that was a signpost pointing to the true form, the reality that existed and the true form somewhere else, but the true form was also physical and literal, not just a metaphor.
[00:39:08]  So the form is real, but also this is real.
[00:39:10]  And that the final thing is that Aslan comes back to this world that's been iced over and eaten bare by dragons and father time, and then makes that one real too.
[00:39:20]  And it even dwarfs in magnificence.
[00:39:22]  Uh, the other one, you know, and then we come back there like that.
[00:39:25]  Was we caught up, right?
[00:39:27]  The world is remade, and then the new city descends upon us.

=== Physical Truth Revealed (02:51) ===

[00:39:30]  We'll have to have a Joel, a Joel Webbin, right?
[00:39:33]  Response Farnia, Charnia.
[00:39:37]  I mean, Charnia is not good.
[00:39:39]  You don't want to be the white witch.
[00:39:42]  That's not good.
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[00:40:29]  Visit thewordsoap.com today.
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[00:42:13]  So okay, so that's all right.
[00:42:15]  So what we've done so far is we've given you an outline.
[00:42:17]  We started with Lewis right, that's just a good start, cold open.
[00:42:20]  If you didn't like that, then you know what?

=== Supporting Christian Business (08:58) ===

[00:42:21]  Just i'm sorry guys.
[00:42:23]  You know, just get out of here.
[00:42:24]  I i'm sorry, after careful consideration, everyone in, to starting with Tolkien in the Halls Of Mandos.
[00:42:31]  But Joel said no because he hates the silver millionaire, THE Cimmerillion, I'm sure it's amazing, but it's just beyond me.
[00:42:38]  That's also a lie.
[00:42:39]  I didn't actually.
[00:42:39]  I'm more of a hobbit Lord of the Rings guy, you know, just a normie.
[00:42:42]  I'm just a normie.
[00:42:43]  But okay, so we started with Bism, C.S. Lewis, that got us to Hollow Earth.
[00:42:47]  We gave both the theory in a 30,000 foot view and some of the key players.
[00:42:51]  Then we moved from that to Shiel.
[00:42:53]  And we've talked about that now.
[00:42:54]  Now we want to move back to kind of Hollow Earth, but also some conceptions of Shiel, some conceptions of Bism, a little bit of Middle Earth, get it all in there.
[00:43:03]  Primary water.
[00:43:04]  That's one thing that we haven't.
[00:43:05]  And then we'll end with three primary water.
[00:43:08]  Just for the record, if we were gauging here in terms of we're saying it's all possible, some plausible, but if we were gauging percentages, if we were betting men, And we were taking bets on hollow earth theory as conceptualized by a bird.
[00:43:24]  You know, I'd say, you know, I'll put it at like a 40%.
[00:43:28]  Possible.
[00:43:29]  I'll put it as high.
[00:43:30]  At a 40%.
[00:43:31]  I was going to say 2.4%.
[00:43:33]  Okay, 2.
[00:43:34]  But none of us are giving it a zero.
[00:43:36]  No, no, no, no.
[00:43:37]  And none of us are giving it over 50.
[00:43:38]  I'm saying there's a chance.
[00:43:40]  I'm saying the concept of hollow earth as in a richly cavernous earth with a lot of wide spaces.
[00:43:47]  That one I'm putting at like, that one I'm putting at fully 90.
[00:43:51]  I genuinely fully believe that that's.
[00:43:52]  True, but then the primary water thing, but then that's my point.
[00:43:56]  So, I just want the listener to be aware this matters.
[00:43:57]  So, like, if we're saying King Kong level journey to the center of the earth, that's where I'm putting 40.
[00:44:04]  Yeah, I'm still giving it 40.
[00:44:06]  He's still giving it 40 crazy.
[00:44:08]  And I want the listener to appreciate that.
[00:44:10]  That's all that's a hopeful.
[00:44:11]  You have that's Abraham hoping against hope.
[00:44:13]  You have Haunted Cosmos on your show, Joel.
[00:44:16]  Yeah, we are just we are saying, we are hoping now.
[00:44:19]  Yeah, so so putting that at 40, we got a 2.5 over there, we've got a Of the full model.
[00:44:25]  Give me 10.
[00:44:27]  Of the bird conception?
[00:44:28]  Okay.
[00:44:28]  Like literally zero.
[00:44:30]  Okay.
[00:44:31]  Wait, wait, wait.
[00:44:32]  But I'm saying like definitely creatures, definitely ocean.
[00:44:34]  That's what I'm getting.
[00:44:35]  So then the hollow earth conception.
[00:44:36]  That's how we're deep.
[00:44:37]  Yeah.
[00:44:38]  Exactly.
[00:44:38]  So then the hollow earth conception that still could support heat, light, vegetation, creatures, even large creatures, dragons, sea serpents, but porous, like the bone structure thing.
[00:44:49]  Of course, everybody knows it as the Ben Garrett shock system.
[00:44:52]  Right.
[00:44:52]  Everyone travels.
[00:44:53]  Travel from one.
[00:44:55]  Place to another via caverns and underground waterways and things.
[00:45:00]  So that one we're putting 90 to 100%.
[00:45:02]  But here's the last one.
[00:45:03]  I just want you guys to see here in terms of comparison.
[00:45:07]  Primary water theory, this is not us just like so true king and having fun.
[00:45:12]  Primary water theory, I think, is if it's not 100, it's 99.9.
[00:45:16]  And the reason is important.
[00:45:18]  And we're going to spell it out here in just a moment.
[00:45:19]  Because the reason is that, and we're going to do this in this episode, right?
[00:45:23]  Right now, we're about to do it.
[00:45:24]  The reason this is important that listeners need to understand a lot of this is because when we approach our view of the world through a disenchanted materialist lens and we tell the materialist story of all things of of of us the world and all things then you end up having to start with certain presuppositions things like the universe is you know it's 14 17 90.
[00:45:47]  It gets more billions of years old every day.
[00:45:49]  They got to push it back further.
[00:45:51]  They have to give these vast periods of time, vast amounts of completely cold, dead space that can eventually just by, you know, tooth and nail, that can produce life on earth and these vast geological ages.
[00:46:04]  And there's no benevolent, caring god.
[00:46:06]  In no sense is the earth for people right.
[00:46:08]  In no sense is any of that true.
[00:46:10]  The Christian story is that though the world and though creation is fallen and cursed, that it was made for man right and it was good.
[00:46:19]  And this primary water issue I think you're probably going to define it for us here it's one of those issues where, um a priori, to me, on the story level, i'm more inclined to say That sounds more like what God was doing than what the other story is.
[00:46:37]  No, exactly.
[00:46:38]  This one matters because we're not just debating something that would be cool.
[00:46:42]  Yeah, right.
[00:46:42]  We're fascinated.
[00:46:43]  We're debating something that the very character of God at some level is hinging.
[00:46:50]  Did God create a zero sum game, a fixed pie?
[00:46:53]  And then, because remember, it's not just that God created, but one of the chief commandments, the dominion mandate, the cultural mandate is be fruitful and multiply.
[00:47:02]  According to Bill Gates, God told us to do the very thing that ultimately would be our suicide, our demise, right?
[00:47:11]  And Bill Gates, you know, like, you know, according to Satan, right?
[00:47:14]  Bill Gates, Satan, you know, tomato, tomato.
[00:47:16]  I didn't hear like corporate needs you to show the difference between these two pictures.
[00:47:19]  They're the same thing, yeah, exactly.
[00:47:21]  So, just to be clear, we're not a fan, but it matters with the character of God.
[00:47:25]  We're believing, no, the pie can grow.
[00:47:27]  Um, that water is a renewable, it's not a finite resource.
[00:47:31]  Um, and that God baked that into the pie, we can guard it.
[00:47:34]  It's going to be renewed.
[00:47:35]  Um, and not just can we have more water because it's not finite, that water, just like fossil fuels, right?
[00:47:41]  If you're old earth and oh, fossil fuels, we only have this many because it takes this many millions of years to produce, if it's 6,000.
[00:47:47]  Years, then fossil fuels are being renewed year by year.
[00:47:52]  So, one, it breaks the overpopulation myth.
[00:47:55]  And it is a myth.
[00:47:57]  And it's a sinister demonic myth that tries to get people to doubt the character of God and to disobey one of his clearest commands.
[00:48:03]  It's one that's taken root more powerfully in culture than many other myths.
[00:48:06]  Yes.
[00:48:07]  So, all this matters for the sake of the character of God.
[00:48:10]  It's not just fun, although it's very fun.
[00:48:12]  And we'll get there in a moment.
[00:48:13]  But it matters is the character of God.
[00:48:14]  What kind of God is he capricious?
[00:48:16]  What kind of God are we talking about?
[00:48:19]  Does he command his children?
[00:48:21]  Is he like Pharaoh?
[00:48:22]  Is God like Pharaoh?
[00:48:22]  He commands bricks but gives no straw?
[00:48:25]  Or is he a benevolent God?
[00:48:27]  And that the world, even under the curse of sin, is still a magical, wonderful, generous world that resources us with everything we need for obedience.
[00:48:38]  Ben.
[00:48:38]  Yeah, I was going to try to frame how this connects to Hollow Earth in a way that has helped me conceptualize it.
[00:48:46]  So if you take the medieval model too far, then you'll run into this problem where once you go below the surface of the world, there is nothing good.
[00:48:55]  Their idea was that the curse goes only so far as concerns man.
[00:49:00]  So it stops at the boundary of the moon.
[00:49:02]  The light side of the moon is the last cursed thing that we can see, and everything beyond it does not feel the effect of the curse.
[00:49:09]  It's in no need of redemption because it has always only ever been holy, and it's heaven.
[00:49:15]  And so as you descend, the reason to them that the earth was the center of the universe is not because they were narcissistic.
[00:49:21]  is because the earth was the heaviest thing because it was weighed down by sin.
[00:49:26]  So it sits at the center like a bowling ball on a trampoline that takes away all the fun from everything else.
[00:49:32]  And so as you go to the center of the earth, you get further and further and further away from holiness and closer to pure corruption.
[00:49:39]  That's why Dante has Satan sitting at the bottom of hell, which is the very center of the earth.
[00:49:44]  The pen.
[00:49:44]  Because that is the worst place that you could ever possibly be.
[00:49:48]  And I think that they were wrong to think that.
[00:49:51]  I think that I love, first of all, I love that model.
[00:49:54]  And I think it's just beautiful.
[00:49:55]  But I think that they took it too far when they say that once you descend to the surface, it's only ever bad.
[00:50:01]  There's nothing redeemable.
[00:50:02]  There's nothing good.
[00:50:03]  Descend beneath the surface.
[00:50:04]  Right.
[00:50:05]  Once you descend beneath the surface, it won't even be redeemed.
[00:50:08]  It's not worth redeeming.
[00:50:09]  We know that that's not true because Sheol used to contain a paradise.
[00:50:13]  Right.
[00:50:14]  We know that under the world is goodness, that there's still light, that it's worthy of redemption as well.
[00:50:20]  And so that connects to the.
[00:50:22]  The center of the earth, what you're arguing is both in a metaphorical spiritual sense but also a literal sense that the center of the earth is like exactly like the surface, that there's both good and bad, right?
[00:50:33]  It's not either or.
[00:50:34]  So, in the center, you have Abraham's bosom, but then you also have Tartarus, yeah.
[00:50:37]  And so, Sheol will eventually be thrown into the lake of fire.
[00:50:42]  I don't fully understand how the mechanics of that will work, right?
[00:50:44]  But what I do know is that Christ's lordship will be proclaimed from the river to the ends of the earth, and there's nothing that makes me believe that that doesn't include underneath the surface, right?
[00:50:55]  With that in mind and knowing that God's not capricious, there must be things in the earth that can help man in obeying God and in realizing Christ's lordship as it concerns him.
[00:51:09]  And this same theological principle, and we're starting with a theological principle and then getting to physical and literal applications.
[00:51:15]  But the same theological principle that you're espousing works for what's beneath the earth.

=== Christ's Lordship Below (15:33) ===

[00:51:19]  It also works from what's above.
[00:51:21]  Yeah.
[00:51:22]  In the same way that we're going to say certain minerals and certain products and things like that in the primary waters, we're going to hang our hat.
[00:51:28]  Within the earth, under the earth, that there are things that are necessary and good and benevolent under the earth.
[00:51:34]  Likewise, who is to say that there aren't certain meteorites with trillions of dollars, and this has actually been proven, but trillions of dollars worth of resources in terms of minerals and certain metals, precious metals that we don't have on earth that are different densities that you can make different things.
[00:51:51]  Think about this you have the Stone Age and then the Bronze Age and then iron and these kinds of things.
[00:51:57]  And with each of these discoveries, you have new worlds, new civilizations.
[00:52:01]  You have It's like turning a whole chapter in the story of humanity based off of technological discovery.
[00:52:07]  That, if you boil it down to the simplest form, is substance.
[00:52:09]  They discovered a new substance, like even the Tower of Babel.
[00:52:14]  You have a technological innovation, namely the brick, right?
[00:52:18]  We've discovered the cutting edge technological advancement, you know, the brick.
[00:52:21]  We can build a tower to the heavens.
[00:52:23]  And I think there was probably a lot more going on than just bricks, but that was part of it.
[00:52:26]  It's more than that, but not less.
[00:52:28]  And then later on, you know, stone, stone age, fire, wheel, all this.
[00:52:32]  And then even now, you say, well, we're beyond that now.
[00:52:34]  No, we're not.
[00:52:35]  We're in the silicon age.
[00:52:36]  It's still a substance.
[00:52:38]  And it's a substance that can be divided in a certain way, razor thin, with certain flexible properties, but also durability that allows for your phone in your pocket.
[00:52:49]  And who's to say silicon is the end?
[00:52:51]  It's not.
[00:52:52]  Well, we tend to conceive of the next advance as a better of what we currently have.
[00:52:57]  So people tended to think of the next advance in travel to be a better horse and buggy.
[00:53:02]  Right.
[00:53:02]  They couldn't conceive of a telecoms engine.
[00:53:07]  So we're not just talking about better silicon chip.
[00:53:09]  Thing, it's difficult to conceive of it because we haven't made the necessary technological discovery, the glory that got hid somewhere down in the depths or up in a meteor.
[00:53:19]  And the next one, who's to say that it might not take us the same leap that computing took us from?
[00:53:27]  Because all we've been doing for several decades at this point, but still less than 100 years.
[00:53:31]  But it's a relatively short span of time.
[00:53:33]  But all we've been doing is just better and better applications of silicon.
[00:53:38]  Doubling the computing power.
[00:53:39]  We're talking about turning the page.
[00:53:40]  We've been turning the page.
[00:53:42]  But I'm talking about turning the chapter.
[00:53:43]  Yeah, a new chapter altogether.
[00:53:46]  Can I introduce the water issue here?
[00:53:48]  Okay.
[00:53:48]  So, the story, the materialist story of the Earth is just this very long, horrific kind of formation over a long, long, long period of time as dust and rocks and all this stuff in space coalesces into the Earth and then gets hot enough from its density.
[00:54:03]  And then, well, where'd all the water come from eventually?
[00:54:06]  So that the goo could eventually make people that would then think about how the goo made people.
[00:54:10]  Really, you know, strange.
[00:54:13]  And the idea that they've come up with over, again, needing billions and billions of years is that most of it came from outer space, that it came from impacts from celestial bodies that brought water with them or materials that, in the process of striking the earth, hydrogen and oxygen became the oceans.
[00:54:34]  And that this was a vast amount of time that it took for this to take place.
[00:54:38]  And that therefore, the only water that's on earth is the water that we already have, unless we get more meteors, but this happens very slowly.
[00:54:46]  And that all we have is the hydrological cycle, right?
[00:54:49]  Where water evaporates into the clouds, rains down, goes into aquifers, rivers, goes into the ocean, evaporates out.
[00:54:56]  The thing you learned in elementary school.
[00:54:57]  So, water is the same water.
[00:54:59]  It's finite in the sense.
[00:55:00]  Since the very beginning.
[00:55:01]  So, even from a young earth conception, which we would hold to, all of your water that you're drinking is 6,000 years old and it's recycled.
[00:55:08]  And that's all there is.
[00:55:08]  The vast majority of it.
[00:55:10]  And old recycled water.
[00:55:11]  And the vast majority of it is salinated and not drinkable without desalination.
[00:55:14]  And we.
[00:55:15]  The vast majority.
[00:55:16]  There's no perfect efficiency.
[00:55:18]  We live in a cursed world.
[00:55:19]  So, with every recycling, you're losing some.
[00:55:22]  There's degradation and loss.
[00:55:24]  Exactly.
[00:55:24]  So, it's finite.
[00:55:25]  We're losing some.
[00:55:26]  That's where, you know, guys would say water is the most precious and scarce resource.
[00:55:30]  And it's all this fear mongering Mad Max kind of scenario and overpopulation myth, you know, and this is why we need euthanasia.
[00:55:37]  This is why we need abortion.
[00:55:38]  This is why you shouldn't have kids.
[00:55:39]  This is why you should get a vasectomy when you're 20.
[00:55:41]  This is like, I mean, we're talking about demonic people with demonic ideas, but they're basing it.
[00:55:47]  Like one of the is on a scare tactic, right?
[00:55:49]  How where do their ideas actually find their power, their leverage to where people would buy into it and do these, you know, actually believe the Bill Gates of the world?
[00:55:58]  Uh, well, that by convincing everyone that it's scarce, that it's finite, it you know, if we have more people, then you won't have water to drink, yeah.
[00:56:05]  Um, and primary water theory.
[00:56:07]  So, so my point is, there is actually an incentive from uh wicked people in high places of power, the regime, trash world, whatever you want to call them, the Nephilim, right?
[00:56:17]  The DMTers, you know, the communers with devils.
[00:56:20]  These people actually have a vested interest, right?
[00:56:23]  When you're judging conspiracies, right?
[00:56:26]  Because number one, we found out in the last three years, and some of us already knew, but even the normies are waking up and realizing in the last three years that a lot of things that were called conspiracies were actually true.
[00:56:36]  Now, that said, that doesn't mean that every conspiracy is true.
[00:56:38]  There are such a thing as things that are just not true.
[00:56:41]  But when I'm trying to gauge, even from a pastoral standpoint, when I'm dealing with someone, they're saying, I'm doubting this, I'm suspicious of blank.
[00:56:49]  One of the first questions I ask is, okay, so who's promoting blank?
[00:56:52]  And would This person or group of individuals who are promoting Blink, can we determine, just like solving a crime with a detective, can we determine motive?
[00:57:03]  Would they have a vested interest if Blink was believed by the masses?
[00:57:08]  Would that somehow serve them?
[00:57:10]  Would they be given more power?
[00:57:12]  Would they be given this?
[00:57:13]  Would they be given.
[00:57:14]  And the answer is an emphatic yes.
[00:57:15]  And so, all that, so primary water theory, it's going against the consensus that we've had for a very long time.
[00:57:23]  The hydrological cycle that it's the same water, it's a limited resource, and it's going up into the clouds and coming back down.
[00:57:29]  And, like you said, Ben, that most of it is undrinkable, even with filtration systems and things like that.
[00:57:35]  And even fresh water that is drinkable, it may not be saline like water in the Pacific Ocean, but this is something that people don't consider.
[00:57:43]  It's not just chemicals and human corruption through pollution and certain plastics and things like that, but even water that is pure, coming from a babbling brook or in a natural river.
[00:57:56]  Is still 6,000 year old surface water since the beginning that has been flowing over rocks and minerals and vegetation and all these different things, not just plastics, man made components, but even natural things, picking up fluoride and picking up certain minerals and certain components.
[00:58:12]  Some of them, minerals, may be good for you, but some of them may be bad for you.
[00:58:16]  And for the same reason that when you drink, you don't go out in the backyard and grab a handful of dirt and put it in your water, right?
[00:58:22]  So 6,000 years of running over mountains, running underground, running over this, running over that, running over oil, running over, you know, all these different things that.
[00:58:30]  That aren't necessarily advantageous to put in your body.
[00:58:33]  But what if two big components here?
[00:58:36]  What if water wasn't scarce, but renewable?
[00:58:39]  That deep within the earth, through seismic shifts, pressure, heat, that hydrogen, oxygen, water was actually being made and rather quickly.
[00:58:48]  And there were whole oceans of fresh water, not salt water, but fresh water oceans beneath the surface.
[00:58:57]  And it's not just that there's more water, two big components.
[00:59:00]  There's more water than we know of, and it's new water.
[00:59:04]  More and new.
[00:59:06]  And what I mean by that, the new factor is that if we could access it, where it doesn't, we don't have to wait a thousand years for it to make its way to the surface and it's picked up all these different minerals and different components and chemicals and all the other stuff, even if there was no human pollution.
[00:59:23]  What if we could get water that's only even been in existence?
[00:59:28]  It was made last year.
[00:59:30]  It's new water, it's fresh water, the freshest water ever tasted.
[00:59:36]  Yeah, it's got that new water.
[00:59:38]  It's got the new water energy to the story.
[00:59:41]  Yeah.
[00:59:41]  And what would that mean?
[00:59:43]  So, we want to talk about three components restoration of, and we want to talk about the lost city of Atlantis, restoration, beautifying the earth.
[00:59:50]  If we have whole oceans, underground oceans, freshwater oceans, and it's newer water, and that we could actualize those, like what if the church of Jesus Christ, his hands and feet on earth, with everything that we do in terms of preaching the gospel, evangelism, planting churches, but then also All of Christ for all of life, not just in church life, but every realm of life in economics and vocation and markets, in education, in medicine.
[01:00:19]  But what if also, even in cultivation and greenery, what if it is our destiny by God's grace and through His power that we eradicate deserts?
[01:00:29]  That the Sahara Desert is that maybe it takes a few hundred years, maybe it takes a few thousand, but one day our descendants, our posterity, and children's children would be reading history books about deserts because they're no more.
[01:00:44]  Yeah.
[01:00:45]  And they're reading it in a tropical paradise in the Sahara.
[01:00:48]  This used to be a desert, blah, blah, blah.
[01:00:50]  So, rebeautifying the world, also the application of what about other worlds?
[01:00:55]  Mars has polar ice caps.
[01:00:57]  And scientists, there's a consensus that there's underwater oceans.
[01:00:59]  What if that could be actualized, brought to the surface with certain drilling equipment?
[01:01:04]  But then the last thing is a fountain of youth, right?
[01:01:07]  So, I think it's just such a fascinating story of, you know.
[01:01:11]  Juan Ponce de Leon.
[01:01:12]  That's right.
[01:01:13]  Florida guy, Florida man.
[01:01:15]  So, if you could tell the story, Ben, and then us.
[01:01:18]  Say that I think he was right, but what if it's not a specific locale?
[01:01:22]  What if the fountain of youth is beneath our feet, now, albeit far beneath our feet, but everywhere?
[01:01:28]  And it's just getting to it, and that this water that there's not just more of, but it's newer water, healthier water.
[01:01:34]  What if that's the ticket, not just medicine that comes with a cost benefit analysis?
[01:01:40]  It's like, you know, you take this pill, you get better with this symptom, but you develop this other one.
[01:01:45]  What if part of the way of getting back to longer lifespans?
[01:01:49]  That we see not just in an antediluvian world before the flood, but even after.
[01:01:53]  What if a lot of that has to do with water and that the fountain of youth, in a very literal sense, is real?
[01:02:00]  And it's not just in one locale, but it's everywhere, and we just got to get there.
[01:02:03]  But story time.
[01:02:05]  Yeah.
[01:02:05]  Juan Ponce de Leon.
[01:02:06]  Yeah.
[01:02:07]  This guy, so Spanish explorer, okay?
[01:02:09]  And he's a Christian man.
[01:02:10]  This is the height of Christendom.
[01:02:12]  They're trying to find new lands that they can spread the gospel in and share the greenification of the Lord Jesus Christ, like we were talking about.
[01:02:20]  But one of Juan Ponce de Leon's primary driving motivations behind his travels. was finding the fountain of youth because he believed that it existed.
[01:02:30]  And one has to then ask the question, why did he believe that it existed?
[01:02:34]  And there's nothing where he wrote down in a diary like, this is why I think the fountain of youth exists.
[01:02:40]  But a natural reading of the man and the times that he lived in would be he believed that there was a fountain of youth because he believed what he said he believed, the gospel.
[01:02:49]  He believed that the church was the temple and that the river of Christ was flowing out of the temple to water the entire world.
[01:02:57]  And that as it went it got thicker and wider and deeper and it enriched all the trees that were growing alongside of it and all the birds went and found nests in there.
[01:03:06]  Maybe he believed Isaiah 65, maybe he believed that the youth would die at 100 and he wondered and asked himself, well, how could that possibly be?
[01:03:14]  Because they didn't have advanced medicine back then, they didn't have the nanny state of medicine that we have now.
[01:03:19]  That's basically just modern witchcraft, by the way, in an attempt to avoid death at any cost, twisting god's arm and twisting nature into means that are completely contrary to itself and to the living god, All in an attempt to avoid death for some and hasten death for others, and still has a far cry, still has failed.
[01:03:38]  Yeah, no one could say that modern medicine has got us to where we could, with a straight face, say the youth dies at 100.
[01:03:44]  Right.
[01:03:44]  And so then you have to ask okay, well, maybe if that was the motivation, why Florida?
[01:03:52]  Why did he seem so keen and bullish on Florida and hopeful?
[01:03:55]  Well, it's because Florida has tons of springs, it's the Lando Lakes.
[01:04:00]  That's your butter.
[01:04:02]  That's where it comes from.
[01:04:02]  It's the Lando Lakes in Florida.
[01:04:04]  And so he goes there and he finds all of these springs and he's able to see, like, well, maybe there is hope.
[01:04:09]  You know, he never found it.
[01:04:11]  He wasn't immortal.
[01:04:13]  He died that we know of.
[01:04:14]  That we know of.
[01:04:15]  He could still be around, I guess.
[01:04:16]  That we know of.
[01:04:17]  That would.
[01:04:17]  I don't know.
[01:04:18]  I would actually.
[01:04:18]  In Nate Wilson's books, Ponce is still around.
[01:04:22]  Not a good guy.
[01:04:23]  Really?
[01:04:23]  But there was the turtle that he found that's immortal.
[01:04:27]  Interesting.
[01:04:28]  Transmortaled turtle.
[01:04:28]  But I mean, this is actually not history.
[01:04:30]  There's a lot of.
[01:04:30]  Andy Wilson's Ashdown burials.
[01:04:32]  There's a lot of religious connotations in the turtle as well.
[01:04:35]  But.
[01:04:36]  And so now, you know, we have to then ask the question, why Florida?
[01:04:41]  And like I'm saying, that he's finding these springs and things like that.
[01:04:44]  But then I think we should also go back and say, is this allowed?
[01:04:49]  Should we read Isaiah 65 and think, yes, literally, I want my son's daughter's sons to die at 100 and be considered a child?
[01:05:00]  Because we know that if it's literal.
[01:05:02]  Or preferably to not die.
[01:05:04]  But if he does, it's like he's a young man.
[01:05:06]  Right.
[01:05:07]  Because if it's literal, we know that that's not the glorified state because people are dying.
[01:05:11]  Exactly.
[01:05:11]  Stop there because people need to.
[01:05:14]  A lot of people are not familiar with.
[01:05:15]  So here's the deal.
[01:05:17]  Some of the listeners won't like this.
[01:05:19]  Hear me.
[01:05:20]  I'm saying this humbly.
[01:05:21]  I don't want to turn you off because I want you to listen to this.
[01:05:23]  And if your view is that Jesus is going to come back, most people who would profess to be followers of Christ, and many of you listening really are, it's not just a mere profession, but by God's grace, He saved you.
[01:05:34]  You've been born again, you are a Christian.
[01:05:36]  And we thank God for you.
[01:05:37]  And right now, the dominant view of end times eschatology for Christians today in the West, because of certain things like dispensationalism and Darby and these things that are relatively new theological ideas in the last 150 years, most people, there's two big beliefs.
[01:05:52]  They think that Jesus is coming back relatively soon.
[01:05:57]  And a lot of people believe this generation, right?
[01:06:00]  We're in the end times.
[01:06:01]  He's coming back next Thursday.
[01:06:02]  So relatively soon.
[01:06:03]  And the second component is they believe that God has destined in scripture that things must become progressively worse until he arrives.
[01:06:11]  So things are going to get worse and we don't have much time left.
[01:06:17]  He's coming back soon.
[01:06:18]  And I understand that.
[01:06:19]  And if that's your view, we're glad to have you along for the ride.
[01:06:22]  And we don't want to throw shade on that view.
[01:06:24]  We want to be respectful.
[01:06:25]  Um, but there are other eschatological views, and so for the three of us, for instance, um, and I know that this will sound foreign to some of you, but we would prescribe to what's known as post millennialism, um, and so as our eschatological end time view, which uh doesn't nobody knows that the day or the hour, no man, um, but but in general, we would assert uh that that Christ's uh his return is um is likely still um off in our our distant future, um,

=== Beyond the Current Dip (11:07) ===

[01:06:53]  and to the point where we would argue that um that it's possible, again, not a definitive claim, but it's possible.
[01:07:00]  That our future generations would be watching the recording of this show and say, oh, these are some of the early church fathers.
[01:07:07]  That people would read Lewis and Athanasius and Calvin and say, which one came first again?
[01:07:14]  Even though they're, you know, at least in the case of Augustine and Calvin, you know, are separated by a thousand years, you know, 1100.
[01:07:24]  But that they would say, oh, it's 1100 years.
[01:07:26]  That's a moot point.
[01:07:27]  So we're talking, it could be 10,000 years.
[01:07:29]  We're not saying it is.
[01:07:31]  No man knows the day where they are.
[01:07:32]  But Jesus could tell every single generation for the past 2,000 years of church history thought that Jesus was going to return in their lifetime, and they've all been wrong.
[01:07:39]  Second component of postmillennialism is one, the return of Christ could be very distant.
[01:07:43]  Two, that things will not get worse and worse, but actually they'll get progressively better.
[01:07:48]  And that they're supposed to because it's a proof of Christ's triumph.
[01:07:52]  That by the death and resurrection and ascension of Christ, that the last thing he said to his disciples before his ascension is all authority on earth, not just 17th dimension authority, but all authority.
[01:08:03]  Authority on earth and in heaven has been given to me, and that he commissioned his disciples to disciple the nations, to preach, to baptize, but also to teach them to obey all of his commands.
[01:08:16]  And we believe that God's commandments have application in every realm of human society and life.
[01:08:23]  And that as we learn to be obedient disciples, as the world is evangelized, and as we are obedient to Christ's commands in every realm of life, including medicine, including education, including media, including this, including that, and the other, that the world will.
[01:08:38]  The world will progressively get better.
[01:08:40]  Now, here's the deal.
[01:08:41]  Think of stocks.
[01:08:42]  The post millennial is not saying that things won't ever get better.
[01:08:45]  Stocks, we're saying, okay, if it's a good stock, the general trend in the long run will be upward, although there are spikes and dips, and some of those dips can be significant along the way.
[01:08:55]  So, all three of us, just for the record, we're not ostriches with our heads in the stand.
[01:09:00]  If you're saying, well, things seem pretty bad right now, we're going to say, uh huh.
[01:09:04]  Yeah, we agree.
[01:09:05]  We're in a hell of a dip.
[01:09:07]  We're in quite the dip right now.
[01:09:09]  The wizard people are ruling the world.
[01:09:10]  Like, we're on board.
[01:09:12]  With a lot of that kind of stuff.
[01:09:13]  Yeah.
[01:09:13]  So we're in a big dip, but we're saying that the dip is not all there is until Christ's return.
[01:09:18]  We're saying by his grace, and it's not apart from Christ, but through Christ, the church empowered by Christ can get out of the dip and that this is a dip.
[01:09:26]  And it may be a 500 year dip.
[01:09:28]  I would say that we're right now in a 300 year dip.
[01:09:30]  The Dark Ages, great.
[01:09:32]  Wonderful.
[01:09:32]  The Enlightenment, trash.
[01:09:34]  The Enlightenment is the dip.
[01:09:36]  And they've been lying to you because the victors get to write the history books.
[01:09:39]  So we've been in a dip for a long time, denying God, rebelling against Christ.
[01:09:44]  But we believe that not just will Christ.
[01:09:45]  Return and get us out of the dip, but Christ through his church, as he's ruling in heaven with authority in heaven and on earth, will get us out of the dip.
[01:09:53]  And a long time from now, it could be hundreds of years, it could be thousands of years that things can change, that the whole earth could be beautified.
[01:10:01]  And so back to Isaiah 65.
[01:10:03]  The point is Isaiah 65, we don't believe is giving a description of the new heavens and new earth after Christ returns because here's the sticking point people still die.
[01:10:13]  People are dying.
[01:10:14]  Right.
[01:10:14]  In heaven, people don't die.
[01:10:16]  Because the last, and here's the other dispensational problem death is not the first of Jesus' enemies to conquer.
[01:10:21]  He doesn't return and then conquer death and then set the world right.
[01:10:24]  No, the Bible says in 1 Corinthians 15 very clearly that death is the final enemy for Christ to defeat.
[01:10:29]  So we believe that many enemies, the enemy of Marxism, the enemy of communism, the enemy of the Clintons, the enemy of all these different things, will be defeated progressively at different stages as the church continues to grow in strength and influence and power.
[01:10:46]  And then lastly, upon Christ's physical final return, he'll defeat death.
[01:10:50]  So, the nations, Isaiah 65 gives us a description where Christ has not yet returned because death is still happening.
[01:10:57]  It's not yet been defeated, but the nation's no longer no war.
[01:11:01]  And lifespans have been linked.
[01:11:03]  No one any longer dies in infancy.
[01:11:05]  That means abortion has been completely eradicated.
[01:11:08]  And also, certain infant diseases have been eradicated.
[01:11:12]  And the youth dies at 100, where if somebody dies at 100 years old, you would look at him and say, I'm so sorry to his family for your loss.
[01:11:19]  I can't believe he was just a kid.
[01:11:21]  Yeah.
[01:11:22]  Yeah.
[01:11:22]  And all this before Christ's final return in our distant future, currently in a dip, but the overall trajectory being moving forward.
[01:11:29]  So, primary water.
[01:11:33]  But, well, and so it is worth, I think, exploring whether that's possible, theologically speaking, if we can actually have people die at 100 and it be considered very young.
[01:11:43]  And the answer is yes.
[01:11:45]  But a lot of objection that I hear is people say, well, in Genesis, God says their years will be limited to 120.
[01:11:52]  And then after the flood, you see a steady degradation of lifespan.
[01:11:57]  That eventually goes down to 120.
[01:11:59]  By the way, after like 20 generations after the flood, is only that.
[01:12:04]  So is Christ really that bad, or is God really that bad at fulfilling his word?
[01:12:08]  No.
[01:12:08]  What he's doing is he's prophesying the time of the flood.
[01:12:11]  Right.
[01:12:11]  It was 120 years until the flood.
[01:12:13]  Until the flood.
[01:12:14]  And then the flood comes, and it's really fascinating how after the flood, once the waters recede back into the earth, you have lifespans steadily decline.
[01:12:25]  Yep.
[01:12:25]  Coincidence?
[01:12:26]  With no exception.
[01:12:27]  I think not.
[01:12:28]  So.
[01:12:28]  The water goes under the earth, this fresh new water, the great springs, and then people start living shorter and shorter.
[01:12:34]  And it's interesting how it also, let's just assume that this is right.
[01:12:38]  Let's suspend any of this belief and say that primary water is legit.
[01:12:41]  100%.
[01:12:41]  And that primary water was one of the major mechanisms that God used to flood the world in Genesis.
[01:12:47]  The symbolism itself is striking.
[01:12:49]  How you have a mankind that hates its God and therefore hates itself because the fool says in his heart, there is no God and the fool is the one that loves death.
[01:12:59]  And so using the tool that was given to man to enliven them, God uses that same tool to kill and end that wicked line in the same way that Christ took death and used death to kill death.
[01:13:15]  In the same way that baptism then is a sign both of judgment and of salvation.
[01:13:20]  Right.
[01:13:21]  In that we're saved through the waters of death that swallow Pharaoh's armies, that swallow the world.
[01:13:28]  We're saved from the floods.
[01:13:29]  Our Lord is seated high over the floods, Psalm 93.
[01:13:32]  He rides on the waves.
[01:13:34]  But we're saved through them.
[01:13:36]  We're in the ark of Christ.
[01:13:38]  The world is deluged and drowned.
[01:13:41]  The water represents death and judgment, but it also represents it's not just that we're saved through Him, but then the positive application is that same water that is judgment and death for some is the same water that is cleansing.
[01:13:51]  It also flows out of.
[01:13:52]  For others.
[01:13:54]  The temple in Ezekiel is figured as having water flowing out over its threshold into a great river that grows deeper as it goes out, goes forth.
[01:14:04]  Ezekiel 47.
[01:14:05]  And creates essentially an oasis in life.
[01:14:08]  So these pictures, biblical symbols are not.
[01:14:12]  Simple or one dimensional.
[01:14:14]  And often what you'll find is that the same taste that to the saint is life is death to the unbeliever.
[01:14:21]  Again, Lewis picked this up in his apple that came from the tree in the garden in The Magician's Nephew, that Jadis, the wicked queen from Charn, took the fruit without permission and tasted it, and it would forever, the smell of it would keep her from Narnia for a hundred years.
[01:14:39]  That's how Aslan protected Narnia.
[01:14:41]  But for, For those who take it with permission, rightly, it's life and it smells greater than any other fruit that got.
[01:14:49]  So, God's symbols in the world often look like this.
[01:14:51]  That diggery his mom has brought back.
[01:14:53]  She's brought back from it.
[01:14:55]  And at the end of the day, what we're saying with this primary water idea to actually define what it is again, the idea that water is being created deep in the earth from magmatic processes and just that God made it would create water.
[01:15:10]  It comes up through tectonic fissures.
[01:15:11]  The evidence for this manifold we see.
[01:15:14]  Tectonic fissures are often filled with fresh water.
[01:15:18]  We find springs where they absolutely shouldn't be, according to the local rainfall, that continue for centuries, even sometimes millennia, at a constant rate of fresh water coming out of the ground, regardless of what's happening in the atmosphere or the rains.
[01:15:32]  We see springs coming out of mountaintops when you would think that a spring would, if the basin above it was significant enough to capture that water, and then it could go under the ground into an aquifer and come out later, like an artesian well.
[01:15:46]  Type of situation.
[01:15:47]  Or melting springs that are way above the water table of the local area.
[01:15:50]  Yeah, we're seeing them 4,000 meters above ground level where there's no, the water table's thousands of meters below.
[01:15:57]  And we've got freshwater springs constantly flowing out of mountaintops.
[01:16:01]  There's evidence after evidence after evidence like this.
[01:16:05]  And bringing it all together, what I would, if I had to do a little forecasting, say, what might be?
[01:16:11]  Well, let's say that the leaven leavens the lump.
[01:16:15]  And over the next, you know, let's just say that.
[01:16:18]  You know, God said that he delights in the Old Testament to show his love and faithfulness to the thousandth generation of those who love him.
[01:16:24]  40 year generation, 40,000 years.
[01:16:26]  That was about, I don't know, 4,000 years ago when that promise was spoken.
[01:16:31]  So let's say 36,000 over the next 36,000 years, God's faithfulness continues to be shown to his people.
[01:16:38]  And the nations are converted and all of the ends of the earth, every family, as the Psalms say, confesses the lordship of Christ.
[01:16:44]  They come to the mountain, Isaiah 2, to be instructed in God's law.
[01:16:48]  And we're starting to see some of these things.
[01:16:51]  The means that God appoints are not always just purely Deus Ex Machina, ghost in the machine, plot interventions, where all of a sudden God's like, and everyone's lifespan is now 100 years by magic.
[01:17:06]  He loves to use means and to raise his children to maturity to end up being the vehicle to those means.
[01:17:13]  This is, again, the hobbit's journey from their immaturity to their full maturity in Lord of the Rings, where they grow.
[01:17:19]  It's the age of men, men coming into their.
[01:17:22]  Fullness going into the next age with the return of the king and the age of the elves ending.
[01:17:28]  What if God was maturing his people?
[01:17:30]  And as we search out the mysteries, we discover the means by which through his physical means, lifespans can be increased, not in an alchemical, we're going to talk about pharmacea and functional witchcraft, but by actually going with the grain of creation as God made it instead of fighting against the grain of creation.
[01:17:51]  And who's to say, who's to say, given all of the imagery and metaphor and myth and legend and even scripture as well of the life-giving properties of water?

=== Greenifying the Deserts (02:25) ===

[01:18:00]  Combined with this anti humanist, anti materialist theory, who's to say it doesn't have something to do with it?
[01:18:08]  Right.
[01:18:09]  Is that what we're saying?
[01:18:10]  That's what we're saying.
[01:18:10]  That was beautiful.
[01:18:11]  Beautifully said.
[01:18:12]  So, this episode recap, just to remind you guys hollow earth theory confirmed.
[01:18:17]  Yep.
[01:18:19]  But hollow earth theory, maybe not exactly the way that Bird and some of the later components said it, you know, journey to the center of the earth, but different spheres, porous, with support, shock kind of system with massive caverns.
[01:18:32]  Not five miles down, but beneath the crust, 150, 200, 300, 400 miles down, massive caverns with support, with water, with vegetation, and with heat sources in different ways.
[01:18:46]  And we didn't have time to conceptualize how that would happen without a sun, but heat sources and sources of light, sustaining even wildlife and even massive creatures like dragons, like sea serpents.
[01:18:58]  And then beyond that, that gets us down there with the water, water not being finite, but being made and new.
[01:19:06]  Healthier for you, and this uh, three you know, very practical, and there's more that could be said, but three practical applications.
[01:19:13]  One would be restoring places here, like Atlantis, which we didn't have time to get into it, located in the Sahara Desert, full sand.
[01:19:21]  See episode one of season one of Hanukkah's Mosque.
[01:19:23]  We'll talk about the Rakat structure, Atlantis, the eye of the available.
[01:19:27]  It's called High Strangeness on the High Seas.
[01:19:29]  Yes, there you go, YouTube, everywhere.
[01:19:30]  But Atlantis, a very solid argument to be made, uh, that is actually located in the Sahara Desert, and that that could actually be restored.
[01:19:38]  So Atlantis reaching.
[01:19:40]  Back to its zenith, but with good and not evil.
[01:19:43]  That we could drill down and access primary water deep in the earth and bring it up and do another motif of scripture is that the deserts would become gardens, that we would greenify the world and be able to see the Sahara gardens and be able to see Utah become something other than a salt lick in clay.
[01:20:05]  So, beautifying the earth is one application, and then the potential of there being primary water on other planets, Mars being one example, and beautifying other places.
[01:20:12]  And then lastly, primary water and how it would affect just humanity.
[01:20:16]  There's just a few applications, there's far more, but how it could affect humanity and our health and elongating lifespans.
[01:20:23]  That was our episode.
[01:20:24]  Hope you liked it and tune in next time.

=== Future Planetary Water (00:36) ===

[01:20:26]  Real quick, right here at the end, I just wanted to remind you to become a member at patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
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