NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - Covenant & Biology | Why Your Kids Belong To You | with Jared Longshore Aired: 2023-09-19 Duration: 40:27 === Covenant Biology and Family Rights (15:00) === [00:00:05] Join Douglas Wilson, Dr. Joseph Boot, Brian Sauvay, Eric Kahn, and myself on March 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for our 2024 conference. [00:00:15] It's called Blueprints for Christendom 2.0. [00:00:19] Go and visit rightresponseconference.com to register today. [00:00:23] We hope to see you at the conference in March. [00:00:32] Covenant Biology Why Your Kids Belong to You. [00:00:37] In this episode of Theology Applied, I'm joined by my friend Jared Longshore to discuss covenant theology, covenant children, and the growing threat of the state trying to take away our children. [00:00:49] Tune in now. [00:00:50] Applying God's Word to every aspect of life. [00:00:54] This is Theology Applied. [00:01:00] All right, welcome back to another episode of Theology Applied. [00:01:03] I'm your host, Pastor Joel Webbin with Right Response Ministries, and in this episode, I'm Privileged to welcome back to the show Pastor Jared Longshore. [00:01:11] Jared, thanks for coming on. [00:01:12] Hey, glad to be with you again. [00:01:13] All right, tell our listeners just a little bit about yourself. [00:01:16] You're in Moscow, Idaho. [00:01:17] What do you do? [00:01:19] So, I'm a minister at Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho. [00:01:23] I am the undergraduate dean and a fellow of theology at New St. Andrews College. [00:01:33] I'm married to my wife, Heather. [00:01:34] We have seven kids. [00:01:36] All right, sounds good. [00:01:37] I've written some things from Canon Press. [00:01:39] Yeah, you have. [00:01:40] What have you written? [00:01:42] Wisdom for Kings and Queens. [00:01:46] The Case for the Christian Family. [00:01:48] Great. [00:01:48] Well, the latter is what I was hoping we could discuss a little bit today, talking about. [00:01:53] So, you and Chris Wiley, who's also written some things that are on Canon Plus, are both going to be coming to my neck of the woods, joining us in Georgetown, Texas on November 11th. [00:02:04] And the 12th would be the Sunday, but November 11th is that Saturday. [00:02:08] And we're going to do a one day, all day. [00:02:10] Conference with myself and you and Wiley. [00:02:13] And so I'm excited about that. [00:02:14] And the whole theme of the conference is the household. [00:02:17] I asked Chris if we could steal the name of his book for the title for the conference, and he gave me permission. [00:02:23] So we've titled the conference The Household and the War for the Cosmos. [00:02:28] And so you and Chris and myself are each going to have one talk, and then we're going to do a panel together. [00:02:32] And then you're going to hold over and preach for us on the Lord's Day at our church, Covenant Bible Church. [00:02:36] So I'm excited about that. [00:02:37] But in line with all things family related, household, these kinds of things, What should Christians be thinking about? [00:02:45] Right now, there's a lot of fear, right? [00:02:47] There's a lot of worry. [00:02:49] There's a lot of concern about our kids and how do we keep them? [00:02:52] How do we protect them that they don't grow up and go apostate, you know, that they don't fall for the culture's lies? [00:02:58] As you were writing, you know, The Case for the Family, is that the name of the book? [00:03:02] The Case for the Family? [00:03:04] Case for the Christian Family. [00:03:05] Case for the Christian Family. [00:03:06] I know a lot of that's covenantal, not just isolated atoms, but molecules. [00:03:12] Get into some of that stuff for our listeners. [00:03:14] What is the family? [00:03:15] How do we keep our kids? [00:03:16] How do we protect them? [00:03:17] The whole nine yards. [00:03:21] It's a crazy time, but it's also kind of an exciting time for Christians right now because we're getting a chance to see the fruit of the nasty stuff we've been messing around with. [00:03:32] And we didn't know that it was nasty. [00:03:35] So that's always a kindness from God when He's like, I'm going to go ahead and show you what you've been doing. [00:03:44] And what I mean by that is like the very structure of the family. [00:03:46] It's not as if Christians were like super solid. [00:03:50] On the structure of the family, and then out popped a burger fell societally. [00:03:56] Um, no, like we were messing around with the same ideas and we had the same problems, maybe not as bad. [00:04:04] Um, and now's a moment where the Lord is turning all the lights on and saying, Look what you did, and go ahead and now let's get this, let's let's rebuild. [00:04:15] Um, and what I'll put that in like legal terms this is kind of like the first chapter of my book in the case for the Christian family. [00:04:24] The first one is on covenant lost. [00:04:26] That's what I call it covenant lost. [00:04:28] And I'm keying in on a Supreme Court case called Pavin v. Smith that came out of Arkansas and its relationship to a Bergefell v. Hodges, which preceded it. [00:04:43] Okay, so a Bergefell said that a dude can marry a dude. [00:04:48] Okay, right. [00:04:50] And that you have all the rights and privileges of marriage. [00:04:53] Okay, one of those rights and privileges, of course, is offspring. [00:05:01] So, what do you do when there's a lesbian couple down in Arkansas? [00:05:05] And one of the women, this really happened, became pregnant with a random man semen, artificial reproductive technology. [00:05:15] So, some guy sends in the goods and she becomes pregnant. [00:05:23] Well, she's listed as a parent on the birth certificate. [00:05:29] But these two lesbian women in Arkansas, they were in a. [00:05:33] A Berkefell certified union. [00:05:38] And so we want this partner lady who didn't carry the child to be listed as a parent. [00:05:47] You know, what would you do? [00:05:49] We probably know what you would do. [00:05:51] But Arkansas said nothing doing. [00:05:55] Like, no, we're not going to do it. [00:05:59] Well, the ladies, you know, went forward with their case and went all the way up to the Supreme Court. [00:06:03] Now, the Supreme Court looked at Arkansas. [00:06:05] And found in their statute where they said, had this been a heterosexual couple, Jack and Jill, and Jill is artificially inseminated with a random man's semen via artificial reproductive technologies. [00:06:21] Jack's the dad. [00:06:22] Go ahead and put his name down. [00:06:27] And the Supreme Court said, hey, Arkansas, according to a Burgerfell, this lesbian couple has all the same rights and privileges. [00:06:37] Same, same. [00:06:38] You have to treat them the same. [00:06:41] So, list this woman who has no biological relationship to the child and no genuine wedlock relationship to the child. [00:06:52] Put her naming down as a parent. [00:06:56] Now, that little line I said about genuine wedlock, that's what would be fun to get into. [00:07:04] And we could do so by asking the question Does Arkansas have the right standard? [00:07:10] That Jack would be listed as the dad of the baby in Jill's womb or that came from Jill's womb that he had no biological connection to. [00:07:20] Was Arkansas making the right move there or were they making the wrong move? [00:07:24] Right, yeah, let's talk about that. [00:07:25] And let's also talk about it in relation to adoption, which is a biblically valid category where there's not a biological line. [00:07:34] I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that. [00:07:35] I was, you know, for the record, I was adopted as a baby. [00:07:39] I've never met my biological parents and don't really have any desire to. [00:07:45] But I know that adoption is a biblical category, that it's valid, but that's not exactly what's happening. [00:07:53] I think some people would say, well, adoption, you know, and so I guess the whole idea of, you know, in vitro, you know, and stuff, it's the same thing. [00:08:03] But it seems like it's not. [00:08:04] What are your thoughts on that? [00:08:06] Yeah. [00:08:07] So, I'd like to get to the adoption question, but like maybe start here and then get over to the adoption question because something pops for us when we hear that like Jack and Jill are married. [00:08:19] And let's say some random guy named Bob commits adultery with Jill and she becomes pregnant. [00:08:29] Who's the dad? [00:08:32] You know, and this is like classic, like talk show, afternoon, you know. [00:08:37] Afternoon on a Tuesday, and they're like, Come back after the break, and we'll tell you who the dad is. [00:08:44] We've got the paternity test. [00:08:46] So we're a paternity test kind of people, and our instincts are to say, Bob's a dad. [00:08:51] Well, in a biological kind of sense, there's a biological relationship there that is important that ought not be denied. [00:09:03] But historically, even in our land, the tradition that we hold to would be Jack. [00:09:11] Has first rights of paternity. [00:09:15] Not Bob. [00:09:17] Bob has done violence to Jill. [00:09:20] He's done violence to the union. [00:09:22] But the union is not dissolved simply by that act. [00:09:27] Biblically speaking, Jack is whose head? [00:09:30] Jill's. [00:09:32] Jill is whose body? [00:09:35] Jack. [00:09:36] So I asked my students recently when I was teaching this, I said, you know, I said, if my wife becomes pregnant, whose body is the child in? [00:09:46] And they had already teed them up, and they're like, their eyes popped, and they're like, yours. [00:09:51] I was like, you're right. [00:09:52] And I said, now, if you go tell them that I said men could get pregnant, I will deny it. [00:09:57] I will deny it outright that men can get pregnant. [00:10:00] But it's helpful for it, it clicks for people because you're like, that's biblical terminology. [00:10:04] My wife is my body. [00:10:05] Your wife is your body. [00:10:06] The wife is the body of her husband, and the husband is the head. [00:10:08] It's an organic relationship. [00:10:10] It's not just a matter of being a boss. [00:10:12] Headship is not simply about being the one who is. [00:10:15] In charge, it's this organic entity that now exists because of what God has done, He has joined the two together. [00:10:23] Let no man put asunder. [00:10:25] What do you do? [00:10:26] What happens when a baby pops up in the body of the one new entity that is the weapons or that is the longshores? [00:10:35] Who's the head? [00:10:36] Well, the wedlock. [00:10:37] We used to have that word, wedlock. [00:10:41] All that to say is why Arkansas made the right call in their statute, even if Jack is not the biological. [00:10:49] He's not biologically related to the child that's in his wife's womb. [00:10:55] He indeed is the head of that child. [00:10:58] He has covenantal headship. [00:11:00] He has wedlock headship. [00:11:01] He has all of the duties and responsibilities that are incumbent upon a head, providing for the welfare of this child, the education of this child, protection of this child. [00:11:11] That falls on him, not Bob in the adultery situation. [00:11:16] Now, Bob would have to pay resources. [00:11:18] Like, Bob has to pay. [00:11:21] But he has no right to say what to do with it. [00:11:26] Right? [00:11:29] Jack is the head. [00:11:30] So that wedlock idea used to be very strong in our tradition, and it's very covenantal and it's lost. [00:11:41] So we now, the conservatives still appreciate the biological relationship. [00:11:48] Okay. [00:11:49] But they have given up on this whole idea of wedlock that it actually means something more than the. [00:11:54] Than being the byproduct of voluntary association. [00:12:01] Right. [00:12:01] And what is marriage? [00:12:02] Well, it's nothing more than the product of the will of the parties involved. [00:12:05] That's what they think. [00:12:06] That's what modern man thinks. [00:12:08] So who cares? [00:12:11] It's just that. [00:12:12] It's not actually a divine act where two people are bound together. [00:12:17] And even if this non biological entity pops up in my wife's womb, it's mine. [00:12:25] Why? [00:12:26] Because God made us one, and it's in her womb. [00:12:31] Oh, but you're not biologically related. [00:12:35] What did God do? [00:12:37] God made us one. [00:12:40] And it's mine. [00:12:42] One, I would mention an ethical. [00:12:43] This would do such good for our society. [00:12:46] Like, men don't like that. [00:12:48] Like, what is the guy that's out, you know, just like gallivanting around, getting all these ladies pregnant? [00:12:53] Like, what is he? [00:12:54] He'll still talk about like his children every now and then, like how many children I have. [00:12:58] And be like, you know, no, you don't. [00:13:01] Men don't like that. [00:13:03] And if you look at men and say, like, oh, you keep messing around, you do that kind of stuff, and another man is going to raise your seed. [00:13:11] Another man's going to, you know, your seed's going to call someone else dad. [00:13:15] Right. [00:13:16] Men don't like that. [00:13:17] That's a protection of women, it's a protection of sexual purity and all of that for us to recover this idea of wedlock and how important it is in our society. [00:13:27] So, back to the Pavan v. Smith case, like, what's going on in the law that the woman, the second woman who doesn't have a biological relationship, It doesn't have a wedlock, a real wedlock relationship. [00:13:45] So I should back up like Christians, we don't believe there's any real marriage there. [00:13:49] Right. [00:13:49] There's not real wedlock. [00:13:50] God did not join them together. [00:13:52] So it's not like God joined them together and it's kind of malformed. [00:13:55] It's like, no, he didn't do anything. [00:13:57] It doesn't exist. [00:13:58] No marriage. [00:14:00] If they both became Christians, they wouldn't need a divorce because there is no marriage. [00:14:06] So then you're left going, why in the world would we grant. [00:14:12] Parental authority and rights to that woman who has no biological relationship and who has no wedlock relationship whatsoever. 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[00:16:13] So I would say, and this is, there's Jeff Schaefer, the head of the Hale Institute out here in Moscow, Idaho. [00:16:23] Just a brilliant, brilliant fellow. [00:16:25] You can find the stuff on the internet. [00:16:27] I did an interview with him on this topic. [00:16:30] But, um, He's tracked in the law that this language of intent based parenting. [00:16:37] We all think that way like, we like intent based. [00:16:41] So, what is it based in? [00:16:43] Well, my intention. [00:16:44] And there's actually a law that there's a case of this in California back in the day now. [00:16:50] It's scary to think how far down the line we are, but back in the day, there was a case in California where a woman was going to be a surrogate, right? [00:16:58] So, she receives the embryo. [00:17:02] You know, so the egg from another woman, not her egg, but implanted in her womb. [00:17:09] Yeah. [00:17:10] So somebody else's sperm, somebody else's egg, and then she's just, she's carried. [00:17:14] Yeah. [00:17:16] So, and, you know, I'm going to deliver the baby and I'll give it back to you. [00:17:20] Well, you know, eight months pregnant, she's like, I want this baby. [00:17:25] This baby's mine. [00:17:28] And you got a real pickle. [00:17:29] What are you going to do now? [00:17:30] Right. [00:17:33] Well, and there's actually, you could find statutes that say, like, the birth, the woman who gives birth is the mother. [00:17:40] Like, we can't just totally trivialize that as if you're just some kind of ship carrying the cargo. [00:17:47] It's not, it's not, that's not, that's not an accurate representation of what's going on there. [00:17:51] Something far more troublesome is going on, right? [00:17:55] Right. [00:17:55] In that whole scenario. [00:17:57] But nevertheless, California said, we're going to grant maternity rights to the woman that intended the child. [00:18:10] So, intention becomes like the only thing left if you get rid of the covenantal slash wedlock idea. [00:18:22] And if you lose the natural biological idea. [00:18:26] So, the natural biological idea was like keeping us in the insanity bill for a while. [00:18:32] But now that that's going, you don't have wedlock. [00:18:36] Wedlock means nothing. [00:18:37] It's not a divine action that joins people together that has any kind of substantial, you know. [00:18:41] Significance for us. [00:18:44] And now we're in this crazy, creepy world where legally speaking, your children don't belong to you anymore. [00:18:50] Now we got all kinds of protections in the law. [00:18:52] So the law will have to work itself pure, as my friend Jeff Schaefer says. [00:18:57] So we'll see what happens. [00:18:58] But the rationale that went into Pavin v. Smith means that if somebody shows up at the weapons door and says, Your kids don't belong to you anymore, what are you going to say? [00:19:09] You're going to say, I'm the head of this household. [00:19:12] I've been covenantally bound to their mom. [00:19:16] And whatever comes from her, like these, this is fruit from us. [00:19:21] It's mine. [00:19:21] Well, they don't recognize that. [00:19:23] And then you say, okay, well, go get the paternity test. [00:19:25] Go get the, well, let's do the biological thing. [00:19:27] Don't you see they have my eyes? [00:19:29] And they're going to say, well, that doesn't matter anymore. [00:19:31] Like we can trans kids, so that's no big deal, right? [00:19:34] It doesn't matter what you are. [00:19:36] Your biological relationship doesn't matter. [00:19:38] What matters is how bad you want it. [00:19:42] And then you say, well, I want it. [00:19:44] And so you're a straight white man. [00:19:47] So, what you want doesn't carry as much weight as what this other lady over here says she wants. [00:19:53] She wants to be the dad for your kids. [00:19:56] And we got to elevate her voice and her intention. [00:20:00] Right now, somebody's gonna say, I don't think that would really happen. [00:20:02] Well, but that's the logic that is actually there. [00:20:07] Okay, now that's an application that probably wouldn't get through the court system right now. [00:20:12] Okay, it's just an application. [00:20:14] All of the necessary ingredients for that recipe are already in the kitchen. [00:20:19] I mean, they're already in the pot, they're kind of brewing. [00:20:21] The soup's not done yet, but that's the creepy way that we're thinking about children. [00:20:28] Yep, that's the logic. [00:20:29] It that particular application may seem far fetched, at least today. [00:20:33] One that doesn't seem as far fetched, that I think, you know, God forbid if we don't have, you know, repentance and reformation in our country, one that seems far more likely is that children would just belong to the state because the state has intent. [00:20:49] Kamala Harris, she has a lot of intent for children to belong to this universal corporate. [00:20:55] You know, there are kids, our kids. [00:20:57] You know, it takes a village to raise a child. [00:20:59] And I could, you know, sometimes I think like, well, I'll just, I was talking to my wife about this the other day and just thinking how crazy things have gotten in our nation. [00:21:08] And then thinking about some of the freedoms that we still have, and thinking that, like, that it's kind of crazy that we have any freedom at all, as hard hearted as people are today, as far as we've rebelled from the Lord. [00:21:21] And I was thinking, like, it really is remarkable that we still have kids. [00:21:28] I'm kind of surprised that that hasn't already happened with this much rebellion, turning against God's principles, God's word, God's design. [00:21:36] I'm surprised that the government lets individual people. [00:21:41] With their own individual religions, traditions, ideology, practices. [00:21:46] Like, I'm surprised that Uncle Sam still lets families keep kids. [00:21:53] You know? [00:21:53] Yeah. [00:21:54] I think that's our long tradition. [00:21:55] We have such a long tradition, you know? [00:22:00] There's just a, it's going to be a slow burn. [00:22:03] We're going to have, when things start to unravel, they can unravel very quickly. [00:22:07] Right. [00:22:08] And that's why this moment is so intense. [00:22:10] But you still, the law is a good example. [00:22:13] Like, The rationale that went into Pavan V. Smith is crazy town, absolute crazy town. [00:22:18] Okay, like insane. [00:22:21] But you have all of these previous decisions that are kind of still holding it from manifesting its complete insanity ness. [00:22:33] So you have, we thank God for that heritage that still keeps people. [00:22:37] Right. [00:22:38] That's what I was going to say. [00:22:38] The heritage is the only thing holding things back, is that we have, we're on the heels of all this prior Christmas. [00:22:45] But our job is to actually, we have, we need Christians to recover that idea. [00:22:50] So when I've used this before, like when the Department of Children and Families come knocking on your door and saying, your children don't belong to you anymore, I'd say, like, what are our instincts as Christians? [00:23:06] I have no problem whatsoever. [00:23:08] And I think it's a good idea for you to say, go get the paternity test. [00:23:13] So I don't mind the natural argument. [00:23:15] And I don't think it's in any conflict whatsoever with this covenantal wedlock. [00:23:19] Thing I'm talking about. [00:23:21] But the covenantal wedlock thing should be fronted in our minds and we have to recover its significance. [00:23:32] Meaning, you look at them and say, first, have you lost your mind? [00:23:38] You've absolutely lost your mind. [00:23:40] I told people when I tell this illustration, I say, the first thing you say is, my Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun over there says they're my kids. [00:23:48] That's good. [00:23:48] And I say, may your tribe increase. [00:23:50] That's good. [00:23:51] But we do need to actually. [00:23:53] Get this down into our bones. [00:23:54] Right. [00:23:56] God, so like when a woman walks down the aisle, when Jill walks down the aisle, there's Jill Williams and Jack Thompson. [00:24:11] Okay. [00:24:12] Okay. [00:24:15] When God joins them together in that ceremony, and then of course in the consummation of that marriage, you now have this new entity that did not exist before you, this entity called. [00:24:29] The Thompsons. [00:24:30] Right. [00:24:31] And I've said that. [00:24:31] And I've said, Mrs. Jack Thompson. [00:24:33] Mr. and Mrs. Jack Thompson. [00:24:35] So I don't know if I've already said this on your podcast or not, but. [00:24:37] No, I just know how weddings go. [00:24:39] I've done that. [00:24:40] I've done more than two. [00:24:41] But I've used this illustration often in making this point or teaching students at New St. Andrews. [00:24:48] You know, when you're sitting there in that service and they said, I present to you for the very first time, Mr. and Mrs. Jack Thompson, it's right for people to go, oh, like, did he mess up the liturgy? [00:25:00] Did he forget? [00:25:02] Her name? [00:25:03] No. [00:25:04] And the answer is no. [00:25:05] Like he did it for your name because this is the traditional way of announcing it because you're dealing with one new entity that now exists that did not exist before. [00:25:12] Now, I want to maintain Jack does not lose his Jackness and Jill does not lose her Jillness, but there is now this one new covenanted entity that exists. [00:25:21] And God deals with that covenanted entity as an entity. [00:25:25] And he deals with them in that fashion. [00:25:30] And all of that is underneath. [00:25:33] Okay, and then something crops up in her womb, fruit. [00:25:38] Well, who's the head? [00:25:41] I mean, we know this. [00:25:42] You already know. [00:25:42] You've already established it once you know what marriage is. [00:25:46] So when the DCF's knocking on your door, the have you lost your mind is based on God has covenanted. [00:25:53] We're one entity. [00:25:55] Like, how do you think these children could not be mine? [00:26:00] Lost your mind. [00:26:02] So you can see in that, basically running that shows the. [00:26:06] Intimate, inextricable connection between marriage and children. [00:26:10] So, if you get marriage wrong, which we did with the Burgerfell legally, then you're going to get children wrong, which we've done legally with Cavan V. Smith. [00:26:18] And you're saying, especially if you get marriage wrong first, that's the covenantal piece, but then you also get biology wrong, you get nature wrong. [00:26:25] You know, with all the craziness of, you know, now with, you know, transgenderism and in vitro and all these different things that now you've got both halves wrong and there's not a lot of hope. [00:26:39] The only thing that we have right at this point is the just the legal, all the prior legal developments from a Christian nation that used to fear the Lord. [00:26:50] And but once that slowly, you know, maybe quickly unravels, hopefully not, but slowly erodes, then then all you've got is the shotgun. [00:26:59] But as Biden has told us, you may have a shotgun, you know, but he's got nukes and he'll use them on the American people. [00:27:07] Apparently, that seems to be the argument he made. [00:27:10] So, so could you link it for us, Jared, now with? [00:27:13] Adoption because adoption, you don't have the biology piece, but I'm pretty sure I know what you know, I know what my answer would be. [00:27:19] But you still have the covenantal piece. [00:27:22] My question, though, would be you know, you still got marriage, you still got the head, you still got the body. [00:27:27] Um, but how it's got to be significant, not just in the couple that adopts and saying that we will take this person as our own, as our child. [00:27:38] Um, but there also has to be a significant piece of uh, the rejecting, the initial rejecting of you know, like from you know, for myself, I remember when I was younger, I would. [00:27:47] Sometimes struggle with rejection. [00:27:49] It's like I just kind of instinctively knew. [00:27:52] Nobody even really had to tell me, but I knew that in one sense there was something special that I was chosen. [00:28:00] But I couldn't be chosen unless somebody else didn't want me. [00:28:04] There had to be, I had to be rejected and cut off here in order to be chosen over there. [00:28:10] I think of like grafting, you know, like branches. [00:28:13] They got to be cut off here to be grafted onto this other tree. [00:28:16] What are some of your thoughts on that? [00:28:18] Yeah. [00:28:19] I think the, I mentioned this also in, in, In the book, that I think I use the illustration. [00:28:27] I'm from Florida, you know, we got rivers down there and swamps and stuff. [00:28:30] So I use largemouth bass as an illustration. [00:28:33] But the natural family, call it the natural family, and the covenantal family were never meant to be two different families. [00:28:43] Right. [00:28:45] And so the natural family is like the bass swimming in the covenantal family stream. [00:28:53] Mm hmm. [00:28:54] They were always meant to be together. [00:28:57] Now, in a fallen, broken world, you have times when the bass jumps out of the river, right? [00:29:03] River keeps flowing. [00:29:04] The covenantal family keeps flowing. [00:29:08] But that's a bass out of the river. [00:29:11] So you have to have this like full appreciation for both of these realities. [00:29:18] Nature matters, matters a whole lot, right? [00:29:22] And covenant matters. [00:29:25] And I think what's happening now is our society is like losing its mind. [00:29:29] So it's losing nature. [00:29:31] Right. [00:29:33] But we lost covenantal thinking before that. [00:29:36] Yeah. [00:29:37] We're losing our mind now. [00:29:38] So we're losing nature, but we already lost our soul. [00:29:41] So we lost covenant a long time ago. [00:29:44] Yeah. [00:29:44] We lost the covenant thing. [00:29:45] And I think by, I think so in the adoption case, I think beefing up this covenantal wedlock and what it means will. [00:29:57] Is a very important part of adoption. [00:30:00] Right? [00:30:01] And so, I mean, you always cast this in the pedo light and the sacrament thing. [00:30:06] If a man adopts children, then they're warranted baptism. [00:30:12] This is a covenantal, this is how strong the covenant is. [00:30:16] Right? [00:30:16] This is how strong God, when He says, yes, here it is, same principle with marriage, something very much like it is going on in that adoption. [00:30:29] He's saying these are. [00:30:30] These kids, who are they? [00:30:31] What's their last name? [00:30:32] And their last name is signifying a reality. [00:30:38] Okay, that's the thing. [00:30:39] Like it's signifying a real thing, a real entity that exists where that adopted child should say, Who's my head? [00:30:48] Right? [00:30:49] Right. [00:30:49] Here he is. [00:30:50] Yep. [00:30:51] Yeah, have his name. [00:30:52] Like I remember my dad telling me when I was little, he's like, You know, because my parents, they weren't, my mother wasn't able to, my adopted parents, mother wasn't able to conceive. [00:31:02] And then later, Which this is a story, oldest time, it seems like. [00:31:05] I hear this story all the time, but God opened up my adoptive mother's womb after they adopted me. [00:31:11] And so I have two brothers and a sister that are biological to my adopted parents. === Nature, Covenant, and Fatherhood (04:09) === [00:31:18] And I remember my dad telling me, Your siblings have my blood, but you have my name. [00:31:26] And emphasizing, you are a weapon, you are my son, and the strength of a name, and those kinds of things. [00:31:34] And what my dad was telling me essentially was. [00:31:37] And not so many words, but he was talking about the weight of covenant. [00:31:42] You know, I remember, you know, it's been said before, you know, blood is thicker than water, unless that water is the water of baptism, you know. [00:31:52] And so, like, covenant is nature, nature is binding. [00:31:57] But it seems as though covenant is even more binding to where, whether it be, you know, Ruth, you know, your people, you know, who aren't her people, you know, but they will be my people. [00:32:08] Your God will be my God. [00:32:11] And so, we see this in the gospel. [00:32:13] We see this. [00:32:14] In the Christian family, and to see this in individual families with adoption seems to be certainly biblical, but also makes logical sense. [00:32:24] One question, though, that I have is you know, the individual earlier you were talking about, there's Jack and Jill, and then there's Bob. [00:32:30] And let's say in this instance, Jill was unfaithful to Jack, and there was an adultery, an affair that took place with Bob. [00:32:38] Well, the fruit of that wrong and sinful union is that Jack now has a child. [00:32:46] Because he's Jill's covenant head. [00:32:48] So this fruit belongs to him. [00:32:50] But you said Bob would still have a responsibility and moral obligation. [00:32:54] He's going to pay. [00:32:55] So there is some, you know, Jack has all the rights. [00:32:58] And he also has, you know, because rights and duties are never severed from one another. [00:33:02] Rights and responsibilities come as a package deal. [00:33:04] So Jack has rights and authority as head over Jill and therefore over the offspring of Jill. [00:33:11] It is now his offspring. [00:33:12] So he's going to have the rights of authority. [00:33:14] He's also going to have, with those rights, responsibilities. [00:33:16] But Bob also has some level of responsibility offspring. [00:33:19] Also, in terms of provision, but in adoption, like my biological parents, for instance, never had to pay, you know, they didn't have to pay money. [00:33:29] When my parents made that, my adopted parents made that decision to adopt me, and my birth mother made that decision to give me up for adoption, it's different than the situation that we earlier covered with Bob. [00:33:43] It was a clean sever. [00:33:47] What is the difference there? [00:33:51] Yeah, well, the difference is depending on what's happening in an adoption situation, it could just be a reality of the fall, right? [00:34:00] So it has the ability to be categorically different than a case of adultery. [00:34:07] Father and mother get in a car crash, and there's a three year old, you know, adoption. [00:34:13] So, yeah, so they're not liking the same kind of things happening, right? [00:34:18] The headship transfer thing is happening, but they're not going to be identical. [00:34:23] They're going to have different circumstances going into what happened there. [00:34:28] And I'd add, maybe as a final point, as you were talking about what your adopted father has done. [00:34:37] Like, if you were to track nature in its relationship to covenant, so the potency of this covenantal idea for him to say to you, they have my blood, you have my name. [00:34:48] Right. [00:34:49] But now, now you have kids. [00:34:54] Right. [00:34:55] And they have his name. [00:34:56] They do. [00:34:57] And your blood. [00:35:00] So there's now nature and covenant are back where they are supposed to be. [00:35:07] Yeah. [00:35:08] And you have this beautiful, I think that's the potency of God's covenantal dealings, right? [00:35:15] He's always setting things back in order. [00:35:17] You're watching him like recover it through that work of a faithful father, watching him restore all things. [00:35:26] Wow. [00:35:26] That's good. === Restoring Order With Faithful Fathers (02:47) === [00:35:28] All right. [00:35:29] Well, we're going to talk more about these kinds of things and how to protect your kids, how to make sure, you know, we want arrows. [00:35:36] We want to have a lot of arrows, but Doug has said multiple times that it would have been of no benefit for Samuel to have five sons who took bribes rather than two. [00:35:46] And so we want to have lots of arrows in the quiver, but we also want to have quality arrows. [00:35:52] And arrows need to be straight and they need to be sharp. [00:35:56] We want them to not be impotent arrows, but we also don't want them to be so bent and out of shape that they, like a boomerang, we shoot them out and they actually, Swing all the way back around. [00:36:07] Instead of doing damage to our enemies, they come back and whack us in the head, which seems like part of what's been going on, sadly, within evangelicalism for a while. [00:36:15] Kids grow up, you know, in evangelical churches and then they start playing, you know, they switch jerseys and they're playing for the other team and go apostate. [00:36:24] And so we're going to be talking about all those things and more with CR Wiley at our conference coming up. [00:36:28] It's going to be November 11th, that Saturday. [00:36:31] And I think we can end here. [00:36:32] I want to give you the final word. [00:36:34] Jared, is there anything you'd like to leave us with on this topic of covenant and children and marriage and those kinds of things? [00:36:41] No, I think I spent all my words, though. [00:36:43] I am looking forward to getting down there with you in Texas, getting some good Texas barbecue. [00:36:47] Yes, sir. [00:36:48] I'm down there. [00:36:49] I hope I can get some of that. [00:36:50] They don't have any barbecue in Northern Idaho. [00:36:52] They don't have a lick of barbecue. [00:36:54] I wouldn't imagine so. [00:36:55] Well, you know, it's funny. [00:36:58] I don't know what the release schedule of this will be, but in terms of the schedule of recording, I recorded with Rachel Jankovic last night. [00:37:07] And somehow it came up, Grace Agenda and the Big Block Party. [00:37:12] And I said, but why try tip? [00:37:15] Where's brisket? [00:37:16] I don't understand. [00:37:16] Like, try tip. [00:37:17] That's what they do in California, you know, like, but Barbie, it's brisket. [00:37:21] And she was like, well, you know, she didn't really. [00:37:25] And then it dawned on me, I was like, yeah, Idaho is great. [00:37:28] Praise God for Idaho, but that's not a barbecue place. [00:37:31] It's not a barbecue place. [00:37:32] Just not. [00:37:33] Tri tip was good, though. [00:37:35] Yeah, I'm sure it was. [00:37:36] Tri tip is good. [00:37:37] It's just, it's usually a little bit more chewy. [00:37:39] Whereas, you know, I mean, it's up to you and your personal taste because brisket is, you know, whenever you go in, it's like, you want the, You know, you want the flat or you want the point, you know, and for me, it's always the faddiest piece of brisket you've got is the one that I want. [00:37:54] So, if you like the, you know, if you want the chewy, lean, then yeah, Tri Tip's great. [00:37:58] But if you want, if you want to die at the ripe young age of like 39, then Texas barbecue, brisket, that's the way to go. [00:38:08] Texas barbecue, here I come. [00:38:09] All right. [00:38:11] Thanks for coming on the show, Jared. [00:38:12] And I look forward to seeing you again soon. [00:38:14] Thanks. === Private Family Banking Giveaway (02:10) === [00:38:16] Our sponsors, Private Family Banking Partners. [00:38:19] Is on a mission to help Christians live out the Dominion Mandate by making a stealth like move away from the mainstream banks and into their own privatized banking system. [00:38:31] This innovative system is designed to guarantee uninterrupted compound interest and tax free growth without exposure to typical stock market risk. [00:38:42] To join this growing community that is already building wealth unto future generations and converting post mill. [00:38:50] Talk into post mill action. 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