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June 13, 2012 - InfoWars Nightly News

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	Transcription by CastingWords
	Transcription by CastingWords I'm Alex Jones.
	Thank you for joining us for another original edition of InfoWars Nightly News.
	Straight ahead!
	Tonight, zombies, deniers, sociopaths, schemers, and protectors.
	The five dominant personalities you'll encounter in a world gone mad.
	Then, a chart that shows the Bilderberg Group's connection to everything in the world.
	Plus, a new poll shows that the U.S. drone program is very unpopular around the world, with one clear exception: the majority of the American people approve.
	And Alex Jones talks with Lloyd Chapman and Chuck Baldwin.
	If you're going to break the yoke of this chain that we're in, you're going to have You're going to have to do it violently.
	And you're going to have to do it in a manner in which you're unwilling to accept the compromises of the status quo, and you are demanding that people rise up for a cause and a principle of righteousness.
	And the people accept the call, they see it, they rise up, and they bring that restoration, whatever it is, to the culture, to the community.
	That's up next, the InfoWars Nightly News.
	Again, thank you for joining us.
	Huge show lined up tonight.
	We've got Lloyd Chapman of the American Small Business League showing how the globalists are trying to shut down small businesses that supply 90% of the jobs in this country.
	Talk about de-industrialization.
	This is it.
	And we've got Chuck Baldwin joining us to talk about Rand Paul.
	He's the guy that Ron Paul endorsed for president when he lost the Republican primary in 2008.
	Chuck Baldwin in the explosive interview, coming up.
	First off, I'm glad the Business Insider picked up on this because we saw this map, I looked at it, it's incredibly accurate, using computers The researcher was able to connect the Bilderberg members, the 125 or so, and their minions to every major Fortune 500 company, right down into government, academia, you name it.
	The map is amazing.
	So computers are being used as a double-edged sword for liberty, not just oppression and tyranny.
	You look at it, 125 members or so, and the interlocking directorates of the Fortune 500.
	It's clear they want the world for themselves.
	They're not free market.
	As John D. Rockefeller said, competition is a sin.
	And the article goes on, but perhaps it's a compelling argument for why the meetings should be public.
	Absolutely, because most of these companies are living off government contracts, shutting down their competition, and using government to also go out there and create regulations that shut down their competitors, but that they themselves are exempt from.
	And you notice when we show the video that we're giving you, the WordPress site that originally did this computer breakdown research, amazing information.
	In fact, as of showtime tonight, seven o'clock central, Kurt Nemo just got the tax filings of the groups that fund Bilderberg.
	You know, that actually pay for the conference.
	And it's the big Federal Reserve member banks, of course.
	That article is also just up at Infowars.com via Kurt Nemo.
	Speaking of other breaking news, continuing a week after Bilderberg aftermath, where David Rockefeller didn't show up and some other bigwigs didn't show up, it's really starting to fall apart because you can't have criminal activity if there's a spotlight on it.
	Exclusive Bilderberg 1966 data dump, the war on nationalism exposed.
	We scanned some of the 300 plus pages of leaked Restricted not for publication documents from the 66th meeting.
	Now they're all up at Infowars.com in the article exclusive Bilderberg 1966 data dump.
	The war on nationalism exposed.
	And that's all they talk about is how horrible nationalism is.
	And why?
	It doesn't mean countries or governments are perfect.
	They don't want any government.
	They want a global government over what your so-called government where they write the laws that they're exempt from to totally control you.
	And they are so upset over the fact that in a nationalistic system, in history, you have a tendency of the people's will being exercised and freedom being engaged in.
	Countries aren't perfect, but they're firewalls.
	What if there weren't countries?
	There have been global, you know, EU world governments for Hitler to take control over.
	The Soviets.
	The Soviets wanted a world government.
	They don't want firewalls.
	It's like a ship's bulkheads.
	Water comes in one, but it's got bulkheads.
	It doesn't flood the rest.
	That's why you want diversity.
	That's why you want different countries.
	I'll tell you right now, I've been in different places around the world, and the U.S.
	is the best I've found so far.
	Europe's too expensive, it's beautiful, but Latin America's beautiful, but there's so much crime and poverty.
	The globalists want to have poverty to control people.
	My point is, there's nowhere to run.
	But it is good if there's an emergency to have some place to run.
	That is basically the firewall.
	And again, this is teleprompter-free news, so you get statements like, there's nowhere to run, but you've got to have countries to run to, there's got to be a place to run.
	My point is, there's tyranny everywhere, but if stuff gets really bad, It's better to jump out in the middle of the dark somewhere than, you know, be stuck with a new world order coming down on you.
	So that's some hillbilly poetry right there at you.
	All right, let's continue away from Bilderberg ahead of our guest.
	Short news segment tonight, because we've got an hour and a half coming up, I think, we've scheduled with our guest.
	Health panel talks about wider food ban.
	This is Fox, New York, and it's official.
	They want to ban popcorn and milk.
	Milk drinks.
	And not just 16-ounce soft drinks.
	See, sugar's evil.
	If you want corn syrup full of mercury and lead, if you want aspartame that eats holes in your brains, if you want GMO, if you want mercury-laced shots, and 1 in 58 having autism from 1 in 25,000, if you want 10,000 increase in pediatric cancer, 2,000-plus increase in breast cancer, that's all healthy and fine.
	And as everybody starts dying, they're going to blame it on normal stuff, like Beef and chicken.
	Oh yeah, they've come out, that's coming next.
	Meat should be outlawed to eat.
	It's real bad for you.
	Actually, it's associated with the fact that human brains keep growing and growing and growing.
	Back when our ancestors didn't get very much meat, well, we were pretty stupid.
	Now, the truth is the brain is made up, the solid part, it's 70% water.
	70% water.
	The 30% that is solid, 91% is cholesterol.
	We have electrochemical computers, and we need it.
	We need essential fatty acids.
	We need it.
	And you need it from plants, you need it from animals.
	Yeah, is fish better than beef?
	Yeah, it is.
	We're overfishing that.
	Well, I'm now going off into a diatribe, as I always do.
	So, don't try to get that popcorn and a Coke when you go to the movies.
	But you can eat BT corn that's got live pesticide in it, that they engineered the plant to grow, so if bugs eat it, they die.
	We covered those reports a few months ago where the Associated Press was saying there need to be more... Monsanto says farmers are cheating and planting only their BT corn.
	There needs to be refuges for corn just for the bugs to eat or all the bugs are going to die.
	We can't have no bugs.
	We just want to kill you, the people, slowly, painfully.
	For God's sakes, have some respect for the bugs and plant some corn for them to eat.
	Only you are supposed to eat this.
	And bugs are given a choice, pigs, you name it, not just bugs.
	They won't eat it.
	So there is that crazy report.
	And this is another amazing story.
	U.S.
	government study.
	Humans are national security threat to oceans and our planet.
	This has finally been put out.
	A new study published in Nature Climate Change.
	Climate's always changing.
	Pay us money.
	Give up your rights.
	The climate changes.
	A search that warming of the world's oceans has everything to do with the effects of man.
	This scientific research has climate change alarmists excited over new ways to direct man-made climate change into social meme.
	Well yeah, they want the UN Law of the Sea Treaty, so anytime you do something on a river or a lake, they say that's part of it.
	It's world government over 75% of the water.
	Well, the ocean is 75, 1% is fresh.
	I'm sorry, 76% of the water.
	And who runs the UN?
	Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan.
	Same guys that get the banker bailouts that want to raise your taxes and call you rich for making $125,000 a year.
	We have identified a human-induced fingerprint and observe estimates of upper ocean warming on multi-decimal time scales.
	So now your boat propeller is evil because it warms the ocean.
	Well, there's more life in warmer areas.
	Meanwhile, though, there is overfishing in the ocean, but nothing's being done about that.
	No, they just want to say, humans are bad, pay us a tax to use it.
	Leave it simple, it doesn't affect any of the globalist industries that are actually causing environmental problems.
	You want to frack and pump poison into people's water?
	Do it.
	You want to cut down trees, you know, in old growth forests?
	Do it.
	You want a GMO and let it spread?
	That's fine.
	But darn it, let's tax what plants breathe, carbon dioxide!
	Holy mackerel!
	The sun goes up and down and how much residence it puts off, how much heat.
	But the UN, they had a vote two and a half years ago at Copenhagen, and they said, we have voted the sun does not affect climate and the heat of the planet.
	Well, let me tell you something.
	If you think we're that stupid, we deserve to be your slaves.
	The sun doesn't affect the climate.
	Really, when we're pointed away from it in the winter, it gets real cold.
	I thought that was, Pluto's far away, it's like absolute zero.
	So when I had Rothschild, the heir to the Rothschild fortune on, he had a book out where polar bears are drowning on the front and they can't swim.
	Pay him money is the answer.
	The Rothschilds own the big climate exchange on record and pay their millions like Al Gore and people.
	And they said in there, He said, I said, well, wait a minute, the ice caps of Mars are melting.
	He said, well, that's because Mars is closer to the Sun than the Earth.
	And I said, no, it's not.
	It's Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars.
	And he said, no, it's not.
	And laughed, because he thought my audience was general zombies that would just believe it.
	Again, the ether of the tyrant swim in.
	Their ocean is your ignorance.
	So, drain the swamp.
	Stop being ignorant today.
	I'm not that smart, folks.
	I got into factoids, news, history.
	I decided reality was important instead of sports or how to act cool or baseball cards.
	You have areas in your mind to learn complex systems for survival.
	You have to integrate and make your hobby being informed and involved and studying systems.
	Then you will be empowered.
	Or you'll be slaves with people that put cancer viruses in your vaccines and deadly radioactive isotopes and fluoride in your water.
	I mean, you know, truth is definitely stranger than fiction.
	Here's a new poll out by Kurt Nemo.
	U.S.
	citizens approve of drone killings they believe of Al-Qaeda people.
	But if you look at an international poll, people disagree, and Americans don't want drones used against them.
	And so that's the message.
	Do not be idiots.
	Skynet is for you.
	The globalists hate you a lot more than they even hate the Iraqis.
	That's why they're paying $20 billion plus to ship General Motors out of the country.
	In 17 of 20 countries, more than half disapprove of U.S.
	drone ...attacks targeting extremist leaders and groups and nations such as Pakistan.
	Notice they never call people that are supposedly killers, killers.
	It's an extremist.
	So they can then legally call you, because you're protesting tyranny, an extremist.
	So a very, very dangerous precedent indeed.
	All right.
	We've got one more big piece of news here before we go to break and come back with our first guest, Mr. Chapman, and then we're going to have Chuck Baldwin on.
	I saw this this morning at InfoWars.com and it comes to us from NaturalNews.com.
	And zombies, deniers, sociopaths, schemers, and protectors.
	He breaks it down into five types, the first four being bad, the protectors being good.
	I would just add that there are fake nanny state protectors who try to take on that and basically henpeck you and stuff, but don't worry about real threats.
	And the state wants to have the position of the only protectors when they're actually a combination of the zombies, deniers, sociopaths, and schemers.
	With above them, though, the psychic vampire.
	In fact, we went with Mike Adams' breakdown, but we should have created that... I should have told you to create a pyramid where at the top of it is the psychic vampires who don't like anybody doing well.
	They see it as a threat against them and love ugliness.
	I call it a beautiful catastrophe, is what I would call it.
	I don't see it as beautiful, but that's the mindset that these people swim in.
	So here you have it.
	First off, you have the zombies.
	And these are people put into a mind-numbed, induced television trance, Prozac trance.
	Cognitive capabilities, they're insane.
	Moral compass, non-existent.
	Desired agenda, self-entertainment.
	Worship, nothing.
	Typical dress, rags.
	When you are not looking, they will eat your face.
	And that is what the public is starting to move towards by numbed zombies.
	Let's move along here to the second type, deniers or the trendy know-it-all.
	They just think if they deny what's happening in front of their face or accept the tyranny, everything is going to be okay.
	Cognitive capabilities, medium to low, moral compass, malleable, does whatever the group tells them to, thinks that there's safety in being a mindless idiot.
	Desired agenda, get along, fit in, be popular.
	So if you tell them it's popular, run off a cliff.
	If you tell them to slit their throat, that it's Britney Spears, that they'll do it.
	Worships material wealth.
	And material wealth's okay if it's at the top of your pyramid.
	And fashion, cars.
	I like cars, so I guess I'm kind of like that.
	Continuing, typical dress, business casual.
	When you're not looking, they will spread false gossip about you to engage in super trendiness.
	Okay, let's move on to a more dangerous type, the sociopath.
	The sociopath can care less about anybody but themselves.
	Their cognitive abilities are high, moral compass chaotic, varies wildly from sanity to demonic, desired agenda, mass death, worships himself, typical dress, new agey or ragged clothing.
	I don't know.
	A lot of them are executives in people.
	When you're not looking, they will molest your daughter.
	Yeah, and again, this is oversimplified, but hey, everything is.
	So good job, Mike, on that front.
	Now let's move along from the sociopaths to the schemers.
	Now the schemers are also a lot of times sociopaths, or there's a large mix, but they enjoy, they'd rather rip you off for a quarter than make a million dollars with you.
	Because it's about winning.
	It's like a rat-like competitiveness that doesn't see the larger collaborative effort.
	Moral compass, loyal to blood and family, cares nothing about everyone else.
	Well, it's not bad to be loyal to your family, but I get what he's saying.
	Desired agenda, total domination by any and all means.
	Worships power and control, weird rituals.
	Occultic symbolism.
	This is more of the vampire group.
	Money.
	Typical dress.
	$2,000 business suit.
	When you're not looking, he will steal your pension.
	That's Mitt Romney right there, in essence.
	And then next, we have the protectors.
	But remember, there's always a counterfeit of that.
	The nanny state, you know, letting you eat GMO and aspartame and living in microwave ovens.
	Does not want you to be able to have a soft drink if you want it.
	Protectors.
	And let's go over them.
	Cognitive capabilities varies widely.
	Moral compass.
	Follows the golden rule.
	Often has a religious background.
	Strong moral compass.
	Strong sense of identity, purpose, and self-esteem.
	Desired agenda.
	Ending suffering, restoring liberty, justice, peace, and giant space command bases as well, and living 5,000 years and things like that, but it's not an issue.
	Worship's a universal force of good, God, karma, and other spiritual force.
	That's true, that's why they always try to dopplegang that.
	Typical dress varies widely.
	When you're not looking, they will secretly donate food to the local food bank.
	That's pretty good.
	Mike Adams always doing original cool stuff.
	So great job from NaturalNews.com.
	Glad to have you here at InfoWars Nightly News, also known as PrisonPlanet.tv.
	Let me give you the daily quote now in this extended transmission.
	The most merciful thing that a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it.
	Margaret Singer.
	Yeah, that's the instinct.
	I always have a kill a little child.
	Founder of Planned Parenthood.
	And by the way, when I saw these quotes and put them in Endgame, I didn't just believe it.
	I sent off and got copies of the letters from universities.
	She said, I hate these black wigs.
	We're going to hire blacks.
	We're going to act like we're liberal.
	We're going to be the social service net so we can kill these people.
	uh... and uh... you gotta read these messages time magazine comes out one of the year still newsweek oh my god she's so great really evil people don't run around wearing swastikas on their arms okay they run around acting liberal and trendy it's a camouflage and you've got to learn this you've got to learn this yeah i know you know this But they are just so seriously disgusting.
	Just go to your local university, go to the biology department, ask to speak to the head person, and say, do you believe there's too many people?
	Yes, I do.
	Are you eugenicists?
	Well, I'm going to call it that, but yes.
	Do you think we should kill most people?
	Yes, we should.
	I mean, it's a cult.
	You ask, well, how do they take over?
	They control the issuance of currency and credit to the central banks of the world.
	It's all a fraud.
	These private families, Rothschilds and Rockefellers.
	And the Rothschilds funded Hitler, for God's sakes.
	Some of their own family got killed by him in France.
	These people want power.
	They're attracted like a moth to flame to destructiveness.
	And everyone must know that we ignore this information at your grave peril.
	Lastly, fuel the Infowars tanks.
	My sales guys come to me and they say, Alex, we're going to start losing money soon.
	You can't pay for all these new employees and crew.
	If you don't plug products, sponsors, things like that.
	And yes, it's true.
	We have the best water filters, ProPure, 10% discount.
	Nobody else has got that.
	Infowars.com, Infowarsshop.com.
	We got 15-day free trials at PrisonPlanet.tv.
	Yes, we give it away for free the next day at YouTube, but they can always censor us there and do.
	Get the full thing, the extra tidbits that are censored, or they block here at PrisonPlanet.tv.
	Buy the t-shirts, the books, all of it.
	Infowars.com or Infowarsshop.com.
	And I can build up a better war chest to hire more crew, have emergency backup if the enemy comes against us, which they're doing right now.
	All sorts of fake stuff going on behind the scenes I won't even waste your time with.
	Because it's proof of our success.
	We're over the target, getting flak.
	I can pay my crew better.
	And everybody can move forward here, ladies and gentlemen.
	So, we will continue to up our game against the New World Order.
	We've delivered on all our promises through the grace of God and your support.
	Help us deliver more on those.
	Visit InfoWarshop.com, InfoWarstore.com.
	One day I'm like, why does it say InfoWarshop.com?
	The website's InfoWarstore.com, and it turned out both those redirect.
	I'm learning new things every day.
	I'd forgotten I'd given that order a year ago to have both those direct that way.
	The point is, support us.
	We're not here with the government with a gun to your head.
	You notice the government and corporate media, you know, that gets banker bailouts like MSNBC, they're always, these patriot people that say there's a world government, even though coming up later, world government will save us, but they're kooks, they just want to make money.
	Well, of course I want to be comfortable, but I would sell everything and live under a bridge or even die to reverse the New World Order.
	I'm committed to that.
	That's a distraction.
	On my hierarchy of needs, human development and freedom and truth and justice and beauty, are what's important.
	The capital is to make us strong in the face of the globalists.
	But they don't even use that attack anymore.
	Because it just doesn't work.
	I'm like, government takes money at a gunpoint, gives it to mega bankers that took control of the government, and I'm here saying, will you pay 15, 20 cents a day, 5.95 a month to get six memberships?
	Oh yeah, one username and passcode can be used by six people simultaneously.
	So it's really more than six.
	I mean, will you support us?
	That's up to you.
	Two big interviews.
	Lloyd Chapman and then on Rand Paul.
	Powerful interview.
	We did it before the news.
	It's going to be explosive with Chuck Baldwin who Ron Paul endorsed for president four years ago.
	Why didn't he endorse John McCain?
	Didn't Ron Paul get it?
	I mean, is he stupid like some of the Paul people or the Rand Paul people are saying?
	I mean, you gotta play politics.
	You gotta make the Republicans like you.
	You gotta make the Rothschilds like you.
	You gotta support war and torture.
	He'll let us have some raw milk, though.
	And again, I'm not hating on Rand.
	I want to change his course now, but I want all of us to change our course and recognize this is a co-opting happening.
	The consensus is in.
	It's above 85 to 95 percent.
	I know what's going on.
	All right.
	Enough of that.
	We'll be right back.
	It's InfoWars Nightly News, brought to you by people that care about human destiny and want society to win, that know that life is like a five-second event, our personal lives.
	But our ancestors go back, and our progeny, if we don't let the globalists destroy us, go on forever.
	I want to live forever through freedom, through you, through those that will watch this later, if we even have a future.
	We're fighting for the future.
	Obama says winning the future, he's co-opting our slogan.
	We are going to win the future.
	We are going to win it for reality.
	The reality, preservation, society.
	We'll be right back.
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	You can also call to order.
	And we're back here on this Wednesday edition of InfoWars Nightly News.
	We're going to have a frequent contributor to the show over the years join us here in a moment, Lloyd Chapman.
	He heads up the American Small Business League.
	And then we're going to be joined by the Constitutional Party candidate endorsed by Ron Paul over John McCain in 2008.
	We're going to get his take on Rand Paul endorsing Mittens Romney.
	We're going to be talking to Chuck Baldwin coming up next here on this extended edition of InfoWars Nightly News.
	Lloyd Chapman's got some breaking news for us today.
	That's why he joins us.
	Lloyd, great to have you back.
	Haven't been on in a few months.
	For new viewers or people who aren't familiar with you, you've exposed some pretty big elephants in the room.
	Describe what your organization does and the laws that are out there that, hey, government contracts should go, part of them to small businesses, certainly American businesses, but that's not happening.
	You've discovered blacklists, where small businesses aren't allowed to get it illegally.
	I mean, this is massive, because it's one thing to have a big government and argue the American system, it gives contracts.
	Well, that's always been a danger because then that system becomes corrupt, obviously, and you've been spearheading this and now there's a lawsuit dealing with it.
	So, recap it for five minutes for laymen out there, like myself, and then expand into all the new developments.
	All right.
	Well, according to the U.S.
	Census Bureau, small businesses create over 90% of all net new jobs.
	The Kauffman Foundation did a study about two years ago that said that small businesses have created 100% of all the net new jobs since 1980.
	That means that 4,000 to 1,000 corporations haven't created one net new job in 30 years.
	So, here we are in the middle of the worst economic downturn in 80 years, and there's a federal law, the Small Business Act, that was passed around 1953 that says that 23%, a minimum of 23%, of all federal contracts should go to small businesses.
	Well, that's a good idea.
	It was actually, I think, one of the most effective economic stimulus bills ever passed by Congress to direct 23% of government spending to the small businesses where most Americans work, that generate most of the gross domestic product, Over 90% of net new jobs, over 90% of U.S.
	exports.
	If you're trying to create jobs, you've got to give the money to the people who create the jobs, not small businesses.
	Well, here's what we uncovered about 2002.
	I found out in 2002 by going through the government's database of small businesses, I discovered hundreds of the biggest companies on earth, not just Fortune 500 firms in the U.S., but Some of the largest companies around the world are getting small business contracts.
	So, as opposed to the 23% that the middle class of small business is supposed to get, they're getting maybe 2%.
	And there have been a dozen federal investigations that have come out.
	The SBA Inspection General in 2005 said that the diversion of federal small business contracts to large corporations is one of the largest challenges facing the Small Business Administration and the entire federal government.
	And so the American Small Business League works every day to try to get the government to simply quit giving small business contracts to Fortune 500 firms here in the U.S.
	and some of the largest companies around the world.
	And of course they fight back pretty powerfully.
	Well sure, here's an example.
	I saw this a few years ago.
	JP Morgan has one of the biggest contracts to administer welfare checks, social security, and the phone help numbers.
	And it turns out that's been outsourced to India.
	I mean, my God, we should make these people on welfare go get jobs, you know, phased in, answering the other recipients' calls.
	I mean, this is crazy, but it's not really, because there's a larger program with Agenda 21, the regulations, arresting the Amish, going after people with lemonade stands.
	The multinational corporations that have taken over the world, they don't want small businesses anywhere.
	I mean, that's the enemy, and you're one of the only groups out there, because you never hear about this issue in the media anywhere, saying, hey, the contracts should go to American companies, and they should go to small businesses.
	And so, again, last time you were on, you exposed your big discovery, that there's a secret blacklist.
	I mean, this is amazing.
	Yeah, they were going to come up with a blacklist where they could secretly blacklist those small businesses that they didn't want to work with, and they were going to exempt it from the Freedom of Information Act.
	This sounds like something, you know...
	from a science fiction movie.
	But we expose that and shut that down with your help, by the way.
	And the things that go on are just really unbelievable.
	But you're right, the mainstream media won't cover it.
	So you're a treasure, your group's a treasure.
	Before we get more into this, It's time for small businesses who are so busy just trying to compete and keep this country going to spend some time getting involved with you and others.
	What can small businesses do?
	How do they support you?
	How do they join?
	But what else can they do to expose this?
	I mean, small businesses instinctively know to put up signs saying USA small business.
	We need to patronize those.
	But what else can we do?
	Well, small businesses need to realize that most of the groups, in fact, I'll say every group that I know of that claims to represent small businesses actually are anti-small business and are funded by Fortune 500 firms.
	So, the National Federation of Independent Businesses is funded by a small number of Fortune 500 firms.
	They've opposed everything I've done for a decade.
	The U.S.
	Chamber of Commerce is funded by large corporations.
	The National Small Business Association is funded by Fortune 500 corporations.
	Every group that you would think is there to help small businesses like the Small Business Administration are actually just the opposite.
	They lobby for legislation to help large corporations and I think they're anti-small business.
	So as far as I know, and if I'm wrong someone please let me know, the American Small Business League is the only national small business organization that's not funded By Fortune 500 firms.
	It doesn't take money from Fortune 500 firms.
	So that's my statement.
	If anyone thinks I'm wrong, let me know.
	But I don't think I am.
	And people should go there and what?
	Join?
	Get your press releases out to their friends?
	People can join the American Small Business League.
	Donate.
	We're filing lawsuits almost every month.
	I've won, gosh, countless legal battles against the federal government.
	And the U.S.
	government is the largest purchaser of goods and services on this planet.
	And there's a law that says they should do 23% with small businesses.
	That's a huge chunk of money.
	That should be around $230 billion a year.
	We think small businesses are getting maybe, you know, one-tenth of that.
	And if you're a small business, the government buys what you're selling.
	You need to look into this.
	Go online and do some research.
	But whatever you're selling, they're buying it.
	And by law, they should do 23% with small businesses, and they're not hitting it.
	So it's a huge opportunity for legitimate small businesses.
	But we need to get the story out in the media more.
	So small business all around the country need to contact, you know, all the local media talking about this because these large corporations that are hijacking all the small business contracts, those, you know, as you know, Alex, are the large corporations that really control, have so much control in Washington, so much control in Congress.
	And those are large corporations that fund the big lobby firms on K Street in Washington.
	So they're opposing us.
	So we're a small trade group, you know, out of Panama, California.
	We're up against the defense and aerospace industry and they just spend hundreds of millions of dollars.
	But it's kind of a David versus Goliath because I've seen you have a lot of successes because what's happening is so outrageous you're more of just a whistleblower.
	You're raising the alarm and I want to expand on this and talk about some of the new lawsuits but It's not just small businesses now.
	These globalists state they want a post-industrial Europe, US, Canada, Australia, where we had traditional freedoms to bring us to our knees.
	I mean, they've made those statements, Maurice Strong, Ted Turner, countless others.
	We saw, what, three years ago, or two and a half, $22 billion of taxpayer money in the bailout to GM.
	to move it to Eastern Europe, Mexico, Brazil, and the biggest factories in China.
	So it's not just small businesses targeted, even things like GM, the heart of Detroit, the heart of Michigan, once our industrial base, the factories that made our tanks, that's being off sourced.
	Even the parts for weapons are being made in China now.
	I mean, this is really Not just the establishment trying to make money, they're bending over backwards to shut down business in this country, period.
	Why do you think that's happening, or do you have any comments on my statements?
	Well, you've got these, you know, corporate giants here in America that are just trying to maximize profits.
	They're not trying to create jobs.
	They're not trying to help the U.S.
	economy.
	They're trying to make as much money as they can and pay as little income tax as possible.
	To tell you the truth, they can do anything they want to do, it seems like to me.
	I've never seen a bill not pass Congress that the large corporations wanted, and yet you can't get anything passed Congress to help small businesses.
	I've been trying for a decade.
	Think about this, for 10 years, I've been trying every day all day long to get the federal government to quit giving small business contracts to Fortune 500 firms.
	For 10 years!
	And it's impossible getting legislation through Congress because these large corporations control all the committees.
	Well, if small businesses are 90% of the new jobs, and I've seen that number, the government admits that, then you'd think 90% of the contracts need to be filled by small businesses.
	But I mean, if you go to a government building, a government office to file something, all you see is big national vendors in there.
	I mean, it's a joke.
	Oh, yeah.
	I was in Washington a year ago looking at the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence.
	When I turned to walk out of the room, I saw a big sign that said, Boeing Theater.
	And if you're in Congress to talk to a congressman or senator, and you're waiting out there in the lobby, all the magazines that are there to serve Washington are full-page ads from defense contractors.
	So the defense contractors control All the print media in Washington, you know, they're the major advertisers.
	In fact, you know, my feeling is, I bet you agree with me, that even major news outlets, national television news outlets, have all these ads, institutional ads from Fortune 500 corporations, companies like Lockheed, Boeing, and Northrop, that we can't buy their products.
	Why are they advertising on CNN?
	No, no, I've talked about that a lot.
	You will see ads for cruise missiles, and for ICBMs, and for Raptors, and again, I see ads on 18-wheelers all over the place now.
	I actually shot a video on this on the road when I went to Bilderberg in Virginia a few weeks ago, where we saw it on truck after truck with drones all over them.
	And again, that's just propaganda.
	But the point you're getting at is, the other side of this is, it's a payoff that you're seeing all these defense contractor ads to the media.
	Because like you said, they're not running that ad so somebody buys a Predator drone or a Raptor or an Apache helicopter or a cruise missile.
	This is a payoff to the media to not criticize it because of 30-year ads or defense contractor ads.
	Absolutely.
	In fact, I was watching CNN on Sunday and every ad is from the oil industry.
	It's either from the American Petroleum Institute or Chevron or Exxon Mobil.
	CNN just seems like they're just owned by the oil and gas industry and they won't do any stories that are critical of the oil and gas industry.
	I've had my story killed a hundred times.
	Because a major media outlet has ads for Lockheed and Boeing running, and those stories are killed.
	I had a story killed by NBC 10 years ago, because NBC is owned by GE, which is a major government contractor to make the jet engines for a lot of fighter jets.
	So there's so much collusion between these large companies.
	When you talk about these trucks with the ads for the cruise missiles, what the defense and aerospace industry is trying to do is get people to think that defense spending and patriotism are tied together.
	They're not.
	And people need to realize that, you know, the Boeing and Lockheed and defense contractors try to wave the flag in their ads and make people think, oh, gosh, we make cruise missiles, so we're patriotic.
	And, you know, you should you should support us and, you know, support America be patriotic.
	So people need to understand defense spending and patriotism are not one of the same.
	And these big defense contractors are cheating our country out of billions of dollars.
	They're cheating small businesses out of billions of dollars.
	And it's just really unfortunate you can't get this story in the major newspapers around the country.
	Lloyd, I want you to get into the new news, the reason you're here today, and the lawsuits, and the latest things, the latest battles, things that are on your radar screen.
	But before we do that, I want to bring up something that I've never asked you here on air.
	You started out your career, you're from Texas, working for a legendary gentleman, Bob Bullock, and you can say what you wanted about Bob Bullock, but he really did try to build things up in Texas.
	He did try to create jobs.
	I know a lot of people that knew Bob Bullock and that was really what he was focused on in the legislature.
	That was a kind of an old line, you know, type.
	You could even say boss hoggish.
	How is the old style system different from what we have today?
	Because, you know, you've been doing this a while.
	I mean, am I wrong to say things are getting worse?
	They're getting more corrupt?
	What would Bob Bullock say about all this?
	We can't say what he would say, right?
	You can't say it.
	I loved him.
	He was my hero and my mentor and I learned so much from him.
	He was just a wonderful person and I think about him all the time.
	He would think this is all, you know...
	Just a load of baloney.
	He wouldn't use those words.
	That's the thing, even old line politicians weren't perfect, but they weren't as just totally cutthroat.
	I mean, nowadays, like you said, anything can be done.
	We have NATO saying they command the military, and Congress says, okay.
	We've got the President saying he'll kill citizens whenever he wants, and they're announcing troops on the streets, and TSA.
	I mean, it's just so crazy.
	Why do you think this is happening?
	Because, to tell you the truth, the public is, um, they're like sheep.
	They're just like sheep.
	If you go out and talk to people, you know, as you've probably done, they don't really understand what's happening.
	You can't get the truth about what's happening from watching ABC, NBC and CBS and CNN and Fox.
	That's not the truth.
	That's, you know, that's their slant.
	But, you know, people are naive.
	And I'll tell you something, and I think you probably found this to be true.
	The abuses that have been uncovered so Horrendous that people can't believe it.
	One of my biggest problems is when I call reporters, they haven't covered a trillion dollars in federal contracting fraud.
	They hang up.
	They can't believe that it's true.
	It's just beyond their belief.
	I talk to people all the time that it's just beyond their belief.
	You talked about what's going on currently.
	The Russian-owned defense contractor just got $370 million worth of contracts in America that's supposed to go to small minority-owned companies.
	That's unbelievable!
	A state-owned defense contractor that sells weapons to terrorists all around the world is getting $370 million in U.S.
	government, small minority-owned contracts?
	You won't see that on CNN.
	You're not going to see it on ABC or CBS.
	You just won't see that, right?
	It's hard for people to believe.
	Well, exactly, exactly.
	In fact, we're going to play a clip of this right now since you brought that up because I meant to play it on last week's show.
	I came across, well, I was looking for an article again because listeners didn't believe me that $2.3 trillion had disappeared at the Pentagon in just the five years before Bush got into office.
	The last number I saw last year was over six Trillion?
	I always say billion.
	It's hard to say trillion.
	Just mission.
	More money for the Pentagon when its own auditors admit the military cannot account for 25% of what it already spends.
	According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions.
	$2.3 trillion, with a T. That's $8,000 for every man, woman, and child in America.
	To understand how the Pentagon can lose track of trillions, consider the case of one military accountant who tried to find out what happened to a mere 300 million.
	We know it's gone.
	But we don't know what they spent it on.
	And their own Pentagon bookkeepers will point it out that it's being stolen.
	They're told to shut up.
	A lot of the investigators got killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, got fragged.
	We've got tens of billions in pallets of money disappearing.
	That's right.
	Now a lot of our weapons are being bought from the Russians.
	I mean, many of the components are made in China, that if we're going to have this big war machine, sure as hell make it here.
	I mean, that is law.
	I mean, the point is, it's gotten so crazy that I People always said, Alex, the elites aren't in control like you think they are.
	They're out of control, robbing and stealing.
	Well, in a way, that's true, and I always disagreed.
	It's organized, but only at a certain level.
	They think they're organized.
	They're obsessed with controlling us, but who they're not controlling is themselves.
	I think they're going to collapse things if we don't start reversing this, but I'm ranting.
	You were saying that's right.
	You know about the trillions missing.
	Oh, yeah.
	Well, you know, there was a story that I'm sure you're aware of.
	Two or three years ago, a military transport flew to Iraq with $12 billion in cash, shrink-wrapped in $100,000 bundles.
	They called them bricks.
	They lost $9 billion.
	They lost it.
	$9 billion in cash.
	That story should have been on the front page of every newspaper magazine in the country.
	It should have been on national television, you know, every day, over and over.
	Nobody even heard it.
	And by the way, it was in a few papers, but just, oh, $9 billion this year got lost.
	I have family in the military.
	And when I brought this up, I'm talking about officers that were over there.
	They got very upset.
	One said, I don't know how you know that.
	Better watch it.
	And another admitted it.
	Even privates, they were given money so they wouldn't talk about the generals taking hundreds of millions.
	The privates would be given $20,000, $30,000 in cash in a bag.
	Colonels were given $300,000, $400,000 a million.
	And they used it to corrupt the troops in Afghanistan and Iraq.
	Now the troops don't complain when they're told to grow the opium.
	So they took that money and literally...
	It's like in that HBO series that I watched, it was very historically accurate, called Rome.
	And they hire the centurion in one neighborhood, Caesar does, to go around and corrupt everybody.
	He goes, well, you have people sell out cheap.
	I should have you do all my corruptions.
	I mean, that $9 billion, because I asked family about that, I've also seen some articles, that was handed out, parts of it, to the troops, and then they told them later, you better watch it if you see us doing bid scams, because you took that $30,000 last year private.
	I mean, wow!
	That is cold-blooded.
	Yeah, I'll tell you something funny.
	If you look, do research about what the federal acquisition budget is, you'll find it's around $500 billion.
	The truth is, it's twice that.
	It's a trillion.
	So Congress talks about it being $500 billion.
	Stories in the media talk about it being $500 billion.
	I've seen reports, I've seen data.
	The head of the GSA under the Bush administration talked about it.
	It's actually twice that.
	And that's the money that's characterized as top secret.
	There's white money, there's black money.
	It's $1.1 trillion on budget, $800 billion black budget.
	We're talking almost $2 trillion.
	Yeah.
	It's astonishing.
	Those kind of numbers, by the way, are hard for people to comprehend, and it just sounds like some wacky conspiracy theory.
	Well, that can't be true, right?
	Well, we just showed a clip where they were going, oh my God, we can't find $2.3 trillion.
	What are the numbers you're getting?
	If that was 10 years ago, how much is missing now?
	You know what?
	Depending who you talk to, the number varies.
	But there's no accountability.
	You know, who's supposed to be accountable for that?
	Congress is supposed to make sure they don't do that.
	And when you look at the Congressional Committees, they're supposed to have oversight over the Defense Department.
	They're all taking money from the big defense contractors.
	You know, they're in bed with the very people... Why do you think Congress now could have the Secretary of Defense tell them, we take orders from NATO and the UN, sit down and shut up?
	How did it get to that point?
	You know?
	Gosh, I don't know.
	I think it probably got that point from people out there being uninformed and again, just being like sheep.
	Well, I've led you off into other areas, but you mentioned the defense contractor stuff.
	Give us the latest stuff we're facing.
	The good news, the bad news, the ugly news.
	You've got the floor.
	Well, you know, the bad news is that the middle class is being cheated out of Billions of dollars a year in federal funds that, by law, should go to the middle class, the small businesses where most Americans work, where most of the gross domestic product comes from, where 90% of all the net new jobs and 90% of all U.S.
	exports.
	Small businesses, the middle class, that's the heart of the U.S.
	economy.
	That's a job-creating machine in this country.
	And they should be getting the money that they're supposed to get by law.
	They're not getting it.
	That money is being diverted to the Fortune 500 firms that have so much control in Washington, so much control in Congress, that have created one new job in 30 years.
	They're shipping jobs overseas at a record rate.
	And again, you can't get this story in the Main Street Media.
	They just won't talk about it.
	And to tell you the truth, we're trying to stop it with our lawsuits.
	Just a couple of days ago, we sued the Pentagon for information on contracts with Hewlett-Packard.
	And we're trying to show that the Pentagon is allowing these major contractors to violate federal law and take the money to spend earmarked for small businesses and divert it to large corporations.
	And when we ask for information that should be released to the public, they won't give it to us.
	So the U.S.
	taxpayers have to pay $500,000 to try to withhold this information.
	I'll win.
	I always win.
	I've lost one lawsuit in 20 years.
	And in 1991, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco ruled that these subcontract reports should be released to the public.
	And that's the law right now.
	And the Pentagon knows that.
	So even though the courts ruled 20 years ago that these, they're called subcontract reports, are releasable to the public, the Pentagon is going to try to withhold them just to make it harder for us to get access to it.
	My guess is, by the way, They're trying to stall for time to doctor up the documents.
	So by the time I win this lawsuit and get the documents, they won't be the real documents.
	It'll take, you know, two years in court to get these documents.
	But we'll win because we always do.
	But it's just so sad to see, you know, here in California, the state has a budget crisis.
	They're laying off teachers and policemen.
	And all these federal funds that are supposed to go to the middle class to create jobs in California, Texas and every other state are being diverted to large corporations that ship jobs overseas.
	And it's just so appalling.
	It's treason is what it is.
	It's more than just making money.
	It's about bringing us to our knees.
	It's like Big Agra tried to have the Food Safety Act after their big factories caused problems, and then they're exempt from a $10 tag on every chicken, but the little guys do, and they send inspectors out to harass.
	I mean, it's all written to shut down their competition.
	Now Big Pharma wants to shut down the vitamin companies, one of the few industries we have left.
	I mean, my God, what do these corporations think they're going to do after they've destroyed all their markets?
	You know, I think they're looking, you know, globally.
	They're going to, you know, try to do business in China and India and, you know, around the world.
	But they're certainly not doing America any good.
	But I just wish that we could inform more people.
	And I think about Thomas Jefferson.
	Every time I talk about this, I think about Thomas Jefferson.
	And he said, every generation needs a new revolution.
	And he says, all tyranny needs to gain a foothold for people of good conscience to remain silent.
	And my favorite quote is, when the people fear the government, you have tyranny.
	When the government fears the people, you have liberty.
	So if you believe in what Thomas Jefferson says for the founding fathers of our country, we need to make the government afraid of us.
	See, they're afraid of guys like you and guys like me.
	We need to make them afraid of every citizen in the country.
	So right now the people are afraid of the government.
	They're afraid of the IRS.
	They're afraid of the government.
	And we need to make them afraid of us.
	Listen, I agree with you.
	People call me all the time, and I'm not some tough guy.
	I understand history.
	I'm scared of bending over and being run over.
	I understand.
	The only shot.
	I mean, I grew up with bullies beating me up all the time.
	I learned when I finally started fighting back, even though they were three, four years older than me and tough, and I lost, I didn't get beat up every day when I got off the school bus because they learned, oh, that guy's going to fight back.
	That's right.
	And so a nation of sheep will be governed by wolves, to quote another founding father, Benjamin Franklin.
	And we have that quote about, when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
	When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.
	That's hanging up in our main entrance here at Infowars.com headquarters.
	Because people in the military, the police, they go, you're right.
	But I'll get on a list, they'll come get me if I speak out.
	I'm like, look!
	The fact that you know that's the total proof, get on the list.
	Let's all be on the list.
	We haven't done anything wrong.
	It's the law that the small businesses are supposed to get a paltry 28%.
	It should be like 80%.
	And what percentage?
	23.
	Okay, 23.
	So it's 23, I thought you said 28.
	I mean, that's pathetic.
	I mean, it should be a higher number.
	This is amazing!
	How do we expect to keep operating, or there to even be tax rolls, if government spending goes offshore?
	Yeah, it's... the public is getting immune to this.
	These stories, you know, come out, and quite frankly, you know, remember this GSA story that came out a month ago?
	We would have never heard about that, except that there was all this video.
	Right, so stories that are much bigger than that never get, you know, air because there's no video.
	But my favorite Thomas Jefferson quote is this one.
	The tree of liberty needs to be watered from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
	And I'd like to start thinking, who are the tyrants in this country?
	If Thomas Jefferson were alive today, who are the tyrants that he thinks need to have their blood watered in the tree of liberty?
	And here's a radical statement I'll tell you.
	My personal belief is we don't need more young people that are willing to die overseas for America.
	We need people that are willing to die in America for America.
	Well, I'm going to steal that from you.
	Or at least willing to speak out and get involved.
	That'll get me in trouble.
	No, no, that's really well said.
	People do need to fight here in America.
	That's right.
	Well, that's what I tell the Infowarriors watching.
	Folks, you're it.
	I mean, you're the front line.
	You're all there is.
	And when people like Mr. Chapman or myself take action and aren't co-opted, when we do resist and we have the truth on our side, we end up winning long term.
	And that's what's frustrating.
	If more of you wouldn't just say, oh, thank God Lloyd Chapman's out there.
	Thank God Ron Paul's out there.
	Thank God, you know, All these folks are out there fighting.
	If you realize getting involved, we don't have to save the world individually.
	All of us doing a little bit, it's the old saying of many hands make light work.
	Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.
	And if you think you're patriotic, Fight the government.
	Don't let them do this.
	Fight the government.
	Get on the list.
	My attitude is, come get me.
	Come get me.
	I'm not going to sit here and watch the government cheat the middle class and cheat small business out of billions of dollars a week and just sit here.
	I'm going to do something about it.
	One person can do a lot.
	You know, before I started the American Small Business League, I got a congressional investigation into rampant fraud in the small business contracting programs.
	I got stories in every major newspaper in the country by myself.
	I filed lawsuits.
	We need more people like you and like me to stir things up and quit being sheep and quit taking the stuff from the government.
	They're cheating us.
	Well, that's right.
	Here's an example.
	I live in Austin, a million people, metro, and I read all the time, we've got state laws as well that you're supposed to spend it locally.
	People should be down there watching the budget items and going, hey, there's a Texas company or an Austin company.
	You don't need to hire 3M to have it produced in China and brought in here.
	I mean, it's that simple.
	We've got to start holding these people to the fire, these little politicians that are bought and paid for.
	You know, it's sad, but to tell you the truth, I've been in the political process all my adult life.
	I've been around it.
	And the truth is that politicians at the local level and all the way up to the national level are pretty much owned by the people that fund their campaigns.
	And unfortunately, it's Special interest in big businesses, right?
	And I had a Texas politician one time, I was giving a tour of Fort Worth in my car one day, and he told me something.
	He said, when you're, you know, a politician, you don't represent the people in your district.
	He said, you represent the special interest in your district, because that's where you get your money to fund your campaign.
	That was 1980, this guy told me that.
	And he was a member of the Texas legislature.
	But it's that way, you know, in Congress.
	I think the congressional approval rating right now is something like, what is it, 10% or 15%?
	It fluctuates, but last time I saw it, it's 9.
	9, you know?
	People know what's going on, but they need to do something.
	They need to do something about it.
	Well, I agree with you because so many people are afraid to speak out.
	I've talked to so many national media who can't report on the Bilderberg or whatever or things.
	But once other people start to report, it gives them cover to do it.
	And that's why we saw Bilderberg implode this year and massive coverage.
	And I see that on so many subjects.
	Take radioactive isotopes in aluminum deposits and these different phosphate mines that they dump in the water and call sodium fluoride.
	I had scientists on a decade ago started covering that just occasionally.
	Now there's news reports everywhere.
	It's coming out.
	There's radioactive isotopes in the garbage they're buying from China but also Florida.
	That's the leftover garbage from these mines that they use for fertilizer that they're dumping in our water.
	And again, that sounds so cuckoo that a lobby would take a toxic waste and put it in your water and then call it fluoride.
	So we're not even debating getting fluoride out.
	Cut right past that debate and say hundreds of chemicals that you call fluoride, including radioactive isotopes you dump in the water.
	I mean, that is just cuckoo level crazy.
	Anyways, I've been ranting.
	Great talking to you, Mr. Chapman.
	Give out the website.
	And again, any other points you think are important for people to know out there?
	Read what Thomas Jefferson said.
	And listen to him.
	And don't be afraid of the government.
	Make them afraid of you.
	And we need to work together.
	And we need to stop the government from cheating the middle class out of all this small business money so we can create some jobs and save our economy.
	What is the number every year, if they really got the 23% they were supposed to, of the federal contracts?
	What is that number?
	I mean, the federal budget's in the multi-trillion.
	Evidence I've seen shows the federal acquisition budget's around a trillion dollars a year.
	Small business should be receiving about $230 billion.
	All the research we've done, all the federal investigations, it looks like they're getting maybe something like $23 billion.
	So small businesses, the middle class, are getting one-tenth of the amount of money they're supposed to get by law.
	If that money were taken away from the big corporations that don't create any jobs and given to the middle class where all the jobs are created, it would Our economy would boom.
	It would boom.
	And by the way, here's what people can do.
	I wrote a bill in Congress called the Fairness and Transparency Contracting Act that will redirect more money back into the middle class than anything President Bush or Obama ever thought of.
	The Fairness and Transparency Contracting Act.
	We need to get everyone to call their Congress and their Senators and tell them to support that legislation.
	That bill will create more jobs than anything that's ever been discussed by anybody in the White House in the last decade.
	The Fairness and Transparency Contracting Act.
	And again, some people say, well, we shouldn't have the government controlling all the money.
	Well, absolutely, because this corruption comes in.
	But it's going on now.
	They should at least follow the law to not have contracts not just being Fortune 100, but also be overseas.
	I mean, this is a no-brainer that if the money gets spent locally, it'll go back into the economy.
	But if it goes offshore, very little of it's ever going to come back, and that's why I mean, hell, they've been saying that we ended the recession three years ago.
	All the economists say it's a depression now for five years.
	Half the restaurants I've been going to that were open for 20 years are gone.
	Businesses are shutting down.
	Almost all my family that was doing well with college degrees are doing terrible.
	I mean, what are you seeing in the California economy?
	I mean, at least in the depression, they would admit we were in a depression.
	Well, you know, the government has a lot of power in the media.
	It came out during the Bush administration that they had hired the three biggest public relations firms in the world.
	They were giving them, you know, millions of dollars a week.
	Excuse me, yeah, millions of dollars a week.
	So you don't get the truth out there in the mainstream media.
	But just this morning on television, I saw something about this that the economy is slowing.
	That's the best we're going to get.
	But the economy of California is suffering.
	The state's suffering.
	We have a huge budget crisis, they talk about.
	Again, they're letting off policemen and sheriffs and firemen and teachers.
	So every state's suffering.
	And to me, it's not going to change until we get the government to quit Uh, pandering to the large corporations that don't create jobs, and start helping the small businesses that do create jobs.
	It's real simple.
	If you want to create jobs, you've got to talk to small businesses, because they create the jobs, not large businesses.
	Well, that's a whole other issue.
	I've actually, a year ago, because I've got over 30, you know, employees, crew members, and some contractors, because they choose to be contractors.
	I'd rather have them as employees.
	But, I called the city, and got ahold of people, and I'm like, well, I noticed that Foreign-owned racetracks being built.
	They get tax exemptions and even paid for with tax money.
	I notice Apple's coming here.
	They get, you know, waivers on property taxes and franchise taxes and all these hidden taxes that are really business taxes.
	I said, I'd like to come down there and have a meeting.
	And they just laughed and they said, we don't really do that for local businesses.
	It's, you know, basically the council has to bring it up.
	And so basically, if I'm not Apple or I'm not whatever, and Apple, by the way, is only going to hire a few hundred people.
	I've seen them with big multinationals come in and maybe hire some companies, 15 people.
	And they get basically no taxes, but then I'm here, and they've got these, every year, these franchise inspectors come by for every table, every thing I've got, they charge me a percentage, and they're obnoxious, and it's like I'm bad because I actually have a business, a media system, but they see it as a business, here in Austin, and I am a piece of trash.
	I mean, it's not only that they only serve the special interests, I, as a small business, am the lowest form of crap.
	Well, you know, I saw a story on television the other day where they passed a new tax where people that have been laid off and are struggling to make ends meet.
	A lady was making jewelry out of clay and selling it on eBay.
	I have a new tax to tax people like that, where ExxonMobil made record profits in 2000 and paid no federal income tax.
	So it's just, it's unbelievable.
	It's just unbelievable.
	But, you know, I learned this when I was working for Mr. Bullock.
	When you've got a tax burden, like a balloon, let's just say there's a balloon here, and that's your tax burden, and you squeeze one in and cut the taxes for large corporations, that burden goes down to the general public.
	That's what's happening in America today.
	You know, the large corporations aren't paying their fair share of taxes.
	So that burden goes on to the middle class, the public.
	And they're taxing us more.
	And, you know, you see reports coming out that the middle class income has gone down, I think, for like a decade, something like that.
	Oh yeah, I saw a number of, we've lost 40% of our wealth in five years.
	That's it, that's it.
	Yeah, I saw that today.
	Yeah, the Federal Reserve is very proud to tell us that.
	Lloyd Chapman, your website again for folks out there.
	ASVL.com, American Small Business League.
	They can also see me on YouTube.
	Absolutely.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	You're doing very important work.
	You're pointing out the elephant in the room.
	That's why they try to ignore you.
	God bless you.
	All right, folks.
	We're going to go to break, and we're going to come right back after this break with our next guest and get his take on Ron Paul and more.
	We're going to be talking to Pastor Chuck Baldwin straight ahead.
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	PlanetInfoWars.com And we are back and joined by Pastor Chuck Baldwin.
	Now, Chuck Baldwin, of course, led the Constitution Party to its most successful run in 2008, and Congressman Ron Paul, Dr. No, who voted no on every tax increase, illegal wars, everything, who did he endorse when he was unable to win the nomination for the Republicans?
	Was it John McCain?
	Because, hey, that's what you're supposed to do to make the party like you.
	No, he endorsed the only other person running with principle, and that was Chuck Baldwin, Pastor Chuck Baldwin, author, radio host, And he joins us now.
	I'm not going to spend all day getting into the Pauls.
	We love Ron Paul.
	We love Rand Paul.
	They're both good men.
	But they've hired a bunch of mainstream Republican advisors.
	Their Campaign for Liberty is starting to endorse people whose wives are CFR, who support property taxes in Texas.
	Mr. Cruz.
	We're seeing a bunch of other stuff.
	Supporting sanctions on Iran, which Ron Paul has said is an act of war.
	It is.
	Not a fan of the Mullahs, but not another globalist war.
	We're seeing a big change from Rand.
	Getting lined up to run for president later, they say.
	They said, well, we've got to make mainline Republicans like us.
	Funny, I thought we should be the alternative to mainline Republicans and Democrats and the rest of them, and point out the Constitution.
	We don't change, we change the world.
	I mean, compromise has gotten us here, but I'm ranting on the subject because it's personal for me.
	I ignored a lot of the signs the last six months that Ram was starting to go mainstream, and then Ram called us up to come on.
	I thought, you know, he's giving us a bone.
	And I've just got to say it, we're here to get Ran and Ron back on the right path.
	People say, well, Ron didn't do this, Ran did.
	Look, Ron Paul announced last Thursday, the same day, that, hey, we're not going to win the delegates now.
	The same day, Ran came out and did that.
	We haven't seen any comments from either one of them.
	This is a firestorm.
	And I understand they're just the focal point and been the focal point.
	Ron Paul said that himself, but we want to continue them on the right path.
	I don't want to sit here and watch them burn for my ego.
	That makes me feel terrible.
	I'm invested in Ron Paul and Rand Paul, but enough of my ranting.
	I've got a bunch of questions for Chuck Baldwin, Pastor Chuck Baldwin, Patriot Chuck Baldwin, who's never compromised, great articles he writes, radio shows he does, amazing info we carry at InfoWars.com.
	His website's ChuckBaldwinLive.com.
	He joins us now.
	Now, I didn't ask him during the break what his view is.
	I talked to him a few minutes.
	We're going to find out now from Chuck his view.
	If he disagrees with me, I kind of hope he does.
	I hope he tells me I'm wrong.
	Or am I right about this being a big deal?
	Look, the supporters out there, we've run polls.
	One poll was 95%.
	The latest poll is 85%.
	They are very upset.
	So regardless, Ron Paul, Rand Paul need to respond.
	But enough of me.
	Chuck Baldwin joins us to talk about this and a lot more after we cover this subject.
	Chuck joining us by the phone from Montana.
	Yeah, it is a firestorm.
	There's no doubt about it.
	I'm very disappointed.
	of folks that are awake and involved ahead of this globalist operation.
	You heard my take on this.
	I haven't heard yours yet.
	We're about five days into this firestorm.
	A, do you agree it's a firestorm?
	And B, what is your view on this situation?
	Yeah, it is a firestorm.
	There's no doubt about it.
	I'm very disappointed.
	I'm not surprised, quite frankly.
	But I'm very disappointed at what Rand has done.
	I think I understand why he's done it.
	I mean, he's taking the typical pragmatic approach to positioning himself to be able to run for president.
	If Obama wins, then in 2016, and if Romney wins, then a little bit later on down the road.
	He doesn't want to anger the GOP establishment.
	He wants to ingratiate himself with the power brokers inside the GOP, and he's positioning himself for a run for president or, at the least, vice president at some point in the near future.
	So we understand how the game is played, don't we?
	I mean, we know what goes on.
	We've been at this a long time.
	We know what's going on here.
	However, this is Rand Paul.
	This is the son Dr. Ron Paul, this is the son of the greatest congressman in the history of the United States of America.
	This is the son of the man who is the iconic representative of the patriot movement throughout the United States of America.
	So, for Ran to do this, it brings it into a different dimension.
	Now, I'm going to be a little bit softer on Ron than you are, Ron has not endorsed.
	Ron has not made a public statement relative to what Rand has done or to the Romney candidacy.
	I will be very surprised, personally, if Ron does endorse Mitt Romney.
	I don't think he will.
	Did he and Rand talk about it before the decision was made publicly?
	Oh, I'm sure they did.
	But this is still Rand's decision.
	I think Ron is going to maintain his no-compromise position.
	I think if Ron came out and endorsed Mitt Romney, it would be perceived as a sellout of the absolute worst magnitude.
	It would be an atomic blast.
	I don't think he's going to do that.
	I don't think he's going to risk his reputation, his honor, his credibility, his integrity, and all that he's worked for, for over two and a half decades, by doing something such as that.
	I don't think he will.
	Now, Rand did it.
	That's bad enough.
	And many of the rank-and-file patriots around the country are now coalescing around one position or another.
	I think by the time the dust settles, you're probably going to have somewhere between a third and a half of what we would call the patriots are probably going to follow Rand into this attempt to Bring the movement into the mainstream GOP.
	It never works.
	It's never worked.
	We've tried it before.
	It's never worked.
	But I think probably a third or more are going to follow Rand.
	I think you're going to have a half to two-thirds of the Patriot liberty-minded movement that are probably not going to go.
	They're going to maintain the credibility and integrity of the movement.
	I think they're going to stay out of it.
	I think they're going to continue the movement that Ron has begun, the no-compromise, we're-not-going-to-play-games-with-evil kind of mentality, and I don't think they will go along.
	But there's no question that there is a divide in the patriot movement now with Rand doing what he's done.
	And, again, I'm very disappointed.
	I'm just speechless by what you're saying because it's so dead on that you've crystallized what I've tried to explain in hours on air in the last few days.
	I I feel personally hurt because I ignored a lot of the signs that Graham was turning in the wrong direction when my listeners brought it up the last six months and said, no, no, no, that's not true.
	And then finally, when he endorsed Romney so enthusiastically, and I saw the coordination with the Ron Paul campaign saying, oh yeah, we're not going to win the delegates now.
	I mean, I knew they weren't going to win months ago, but they kind of kept people going along To maintain the support, and I thought Ram Paul must have some plan, Ron Paul must have some plan, and then now I've seen the response.
	Finally ran an interview yesterday, and I mean there's an incredible quote where he said, there are things between good and evil.
	Sounds like that famous statement people make before they start compromising to it.
	And look, he without sin let him cast the first stone.
	I'm not on some high horse either, but this is, as you said, Rand Paul, who ran in Kentucky as a chip off the old block.
	Apple didn't fall too far from the tree.
	But my gut, my spirit, my discernment, when I learned this Friday morning, because I'd gone to bed early that night when he made the announcement, I hadn't heard it until Friday morning about 6 a.m.
	when I got up, was a punch in the stomach.
	And my gut, my discernment, my spirit's never wrong.
	I always, you know, previously ignore it, only at my own peril.
	And I can hear, you know, Rand say, well, he thought people would be disillusioned with this, but he thinks it's the right thing to do to play politics.
	Well, you know what, if he thought that, he should have come out and given a press conference and said, I don't agree with a lot of stuff Romney does, but we've got to position ourselves and take the party over.
	Instead, I see Ron Paul saying, be respectful when they cheat you out of the delegates.
	And basically it's what's been said, hey I may not go to the Liberty Fest, big huge event that's been planned for months, you know, now that may make the Republicans unhappy.
	My point is, trying to get the Republicans to like Ron Paul and Rand Paul, they didn't totally sell out to do that.
	The whole system cheated them, blocked them, demonized them, didn't cover the polls when they won.
	I just wonder, What are they thinking?
	I mean, you've been at national level politics, you know both the men as I do, and you've given us great discernment here, crystallizing it, on the lay of the land.
	Why do you think they did this?
	I mean, where do you think this came from, from no compromise to 180 degrees, at least from Rand, and again, Ron hasn't spoken, so that gives a lot of acquiescence to this.
	Chuck Baldwin, what do you make of this?
	Why do you think they did this?
	I mean, I understand you said, hey, we know how politics works.
	I saw editorial saying, two words for people mad at Rand, grow up and you're stupid.
	No, I get how politics works, but we have a hunt, you know, nine, nine other senators if we want to just have somebody play politics.
	I mean, they talk to us like we're dumb, and I think that's only making people angrier.
	I mean, I'm ranting here, Pastor, but what do you make of what I've said here?
	No, yeah, I hear you.
	I think what we're dealing with is, I think we're dealing with Rand.
	I think we're dealing with Rand Paul.
	I have always questioned in my mind whether or not Rand was the same quality of man as his dad was.
	And I just always had that suspicion.
	It was just a question.
	I wasn't sure in my own heart and soul.
	That Rand was ever committed to the same principles that Ron was.
	You know, the old cliche is, well, time will tell.
	And so he's elected, he runs on the Tea Party, he runs on his dad's name, you know, he wins.
	And, you know, there's a few things that he said right after he was elected senator from Kentucky that kind of raised my eyebrows.
	I said, hmm, Ron would never say that.
	Okay, he's not Ron Paul.
	He's his son.
	I've got a son who's very engaged in political issues, and he and I don't see eye-to-eye on everything either.
	But there were some things that Rand was saying early on that gave me a little heartburn.
	And I thought, wow, is this me?
	What is this?
	So let's just see what happens.
	Well, I think we're seeing what has happened.
	I think we're dealing with Rand Paul.
	I don't think Rand shares his dad's convictions, especially as it relates to foreign policy.
	Why Rand was right to endorse Ron.
	And that's been the one big difference with Ron Paul.
	That's the thing that has set him apart from every other so-called conservative politician in Washington, D.C.
	You know, you've got a whole bunch of them out there.
	They're conservative this, conservative that, and when it comes to domestic issues, they are conservative, quote-unquote.
	But the thing that separates Ron Paul from all of them, and the thing that has given him the energy and the momentum and the respect that he has, is his uncompromising stand on constitutional government as it relates to foreign policy.
	Now, what have we got?
	We've got a guy now with Rand Paul, Who apparently does not share the same convictions that his dad has relative to foreign policy.
	I mean, go back to the interview that he had with Sean Hannity just recently.
	And he talked about the meeting that he had with Romney.
	And they talked about all these issues upon which they agreed.
	And all of the issues that they agreed on were issues that were Not for lack of a better word, they were the fluffy domestic issues that, you know, you wouldn't have a lot of difficulty disagreeing on with just about anybody who called themselves a Republican conservative.
	Yeah, it's not that abortion isn't absolutely important or gay marriage, homosexual marriage, the point is it's injected as something to never be settled to get us fighting with each other instead of the foreign Federal Reserve running the country.
	Well, everything that is collapsing our country today relates to America's foreign policy.
	And that includes this police state that is being created by this super surveillance state that's going on.
	That's all happening as a result of this unconstitutional, globalist foreign policy that's been dictating the State Department and all the other international agencies of the federal government since at least the Carter days.
	So, that's the thing that has set Ron Paul apart.
	He has refused to compromise on those issues.
	He has steadfastly championed the constitutional position on a just-born policy decision-making process from the executive branch of the federal government, whether it be Democrat or Republican.
	He's never compromised on that.
	He stood foursquare on that.
	And I think that's where we're seeing the separation between Ron and Rand.
	Rand must not, this is my opinion based upon what he's done, he must not share those core convictions relative to foreign policy because here's the thing, when he says he's going to support Mitt Romney, that means he's going to support The war in Iran, the war in Syria, a continued war of aggression in the Middle East.
	This is going to be an expansion and an extension.
	Of everything that started under G.W.
	Bush and then continued under Barack Obama.
	Exactly, and he admits two years ago after winning he made a pilgrimage to meet with the top neocons and basically kiss their ring and again they say give up our rights because of Al-Qaeda and then it's in the news they're using Al-Qaeda to take over Libya and now Syria and Al-Qaeda says they're going to kill all the Jews in Uh... Syria and expel the Christians and Hillary Clinton's making up massacres and stuff.
	I'm not saying Assad's a good guy but I mean this is so crazy and he's and again Romney is literally like the devil.
	I mean if it was like Charles Key or somebody You know, who's a mainline Republican but exposes corruption, you know, from a state level and he endorsed him.
	I don't like that.
	Or if it was somebody, you know, at a national level they were endorsing him who wasn't perfect on every issue.
	Because you can judge the man or the woman, are they somebody of principle?
	I mean, I don't agree with a lot of things Jesse Ventura says, but at least he sticks to what he's actually believing in, not that I'll even supposedly vote for him.
	But now to just see Rand with this disconnect, himself on radio with Peter Schiff yesterday, and his surrogates saying, we want the Republicans to like us, So we're going to go with what the party establishment wants.
	That idea is 180 degrees the opposite of Ron Paul.
	And it never works.
	I mean, I'm just a little shocked at that position because historically it's never worked.
	I mean, let's go back to the 1970s and early 1980s when Ronald Reagan, you know, first came to power.
	We'll do that in a minute, but Chuck, it works if you're selling out.
	Yeah, it works if you don't really care about the principles that you say you espouse.
	It works if you don't mind this slow-motion suicide kind of a thing going on where you never gain any ground and you're always going backward.
	You know, but you yourself are being advanced politically, or, you know, whatever.
	Yeah, it works if you're looking after yourself.
	Very well said.
	Very well said.
	Slow motion suicide.
	I want you to finish your point about Reagan, but I want to put an article on screen here that Steve Watson did with a transcript of Rand Paul yesterday on Peter Schiff's show, and this is a quote.
	He said, there are definitely things in between good and evil.
	And I've got to be honest with you, in my life, I have learned that statement is the essence of what the devil says to you when he tries to get you to start compromising.
	I mean, that is literally, in my experience, that idea of, oh, do a little bad for the good.
	That's where everything begins to fall down.
	As a pastor, am I wrong or am I right?
	No, you're exactly right.
	Incrementalism has always served the side of globalism and evil, wickedness and slavery.
	We've been in this incremental fight, and we fight it like, oh, we didn't get this way overnight, and we're not going to get out of it overnight, and that's just so much hooey.
	I'm not talking about necessarily violent revolution, but every revolution has always been a dramatic, sudden, catastrophic kind of event.
	You don't get anywhere incrementally except going downward.
	If you're going to break the yoke of this chain that we're in, you're going to have to do it suddenly.
	You're going to have to do it violently, and you're going to have to do it in a manner in which you're unwilling to accept the compromises of the status quo, and you are demanding that people rise up for a cause and a principle of righteousness.
	And the people accept the call, they see it, they rise up.
	And they bring that restoration, whatever it is, to the culture, to the community.
	That's what we have to do, and that's what Ron Paul has championed.
	And that's why his movement is so large, and it's why that it's been so successful.
	This is a very unfortunate tack that Rand has taken.
	I think if he would have instead, if he would have just maintained the conviction that his dad has maintained all through his career and kept that same spirit about him.
	He would have been the no-question heir apparent, and he would have received all of the following, the respect, the support of Ron's followers, plus the ones that he would naturally attract, being a younger guy and some of the plus the ones that he would naturally attract, being a younger guy and some of the people that would be attracted to Rand for whatever But now, he's going to alienate at least 50% of Ron's supporters.
	He's going to identify himself as someone who's not principled on the issues and is willing to compromise with the establishment.
	And whatever he gains out of it personally, The Patriot Movement, the Freedom Movement in America is going to suffer.
	And as you know, it's all an illusion.
	There is nothing personal.
	It's all what you gain for true liberty and freedom.
	And wow, what you just said, Pastor, is so incredibly powerful.
	And I just feel so sorry for Rand Paul because he had everything.
	I knew in my gut that if he just stayed the course he was going to end up being president down the road.
	He was going to be such an important George Washington type person.
	But I looked at the man, I met with the man, I too said there was something Something almost too gentlemanly about him that he was someone that just wanted to work with everyone.
	Well, you can't work with pure, concentrated evil.
	You can try to take people that are corrupt and weak because of, you know, the flesh and change them.
	I mean, that's myself every day.
	But you're not going to change things that have given themselves over consciously to evil and the idea that he believes you can compromise and get patted on the head by Mr. Flip-Flop, Mr. Abortion, Mr. New World Order Mitt Romney just shows bankruptcy in a fundamental judgment area and it shows that, I mean, it's all the more sad because Rand Paul's clearly a good guy that they've been deceived and I'll tell you a story.
	I went to dinner Friday night with my dad.
	I never go out with my dad with dinner alone, but my mom was out of town, and my wife had the kids, and so we were both getting off work late.
	I said, hey, let's go get dinner.
	So I meet my dad, and he walks right up to me, and I just said at the office at like 7 o'clock at night, or 6 o'clock, that I think this is a trap.
	I haven't said this on air, but I want to get your take on this.
	I haven't said this yet.
	I said, I think this is a trap.
	They're so sophisticated at the globalist Mitt Romney level, they understand how humans work, how they operate, they've gotten these levels because they're good at it, that they convinced him he'd get the VP or was in the running if he would just do this and work with them.
	They know it's going to really hurt the Paul Brand name of no compromise, Dr. No.
	They know Rand's real power is that he's the son, heir apparent to this, Which humans instinctively know is important.
	If you've got a good father, the son's probably going to be pretty good generally.
	And that, well, I mean, simply put, my dad said, I think they figured this out and are suckering Rand Paul.
	They've told him he's going to get all this great stuff and going to end up saving the Liberty Movement and doing all this and that they're really his friends and that they agree with his point of view and that, oh, come on in, do this.
	And that they were really setting him up to partially cripple himself or destroy himself And hurt his father while at the same time giving power to Romney.
	And my dad was telling me this, and this is exactly what I'd said 30 minutes before to the crew.
	And in my final equation, I think that's what happened.
	And I said last Friday, and I said last Sunday, and today, I said, if he doesn't reverse himself, it only gets worse.
	There's nothing wrong with clarifying.
	Not even saying, hey, I'm wrong, but hey, let me clarify.
	But if their handlers come out, No, I think your dad's observation was spot on.
	I think that was great.
	This is what they do.
	Now, that's a long rant describing what I just said, but Chuck Baldwin, what's your take on that?
	No, I think your dad's observation was spot on.
	I think that was great.
	This is what they do.
	You know, they try to think a guy who has a following and who's built the following on a principle, who has a passionate conviction about whatever it is.
	And they try to bring a guy in like that, pat him on the back, and say, oh, yeah, you're doing this is great, but, you know, you just need a little bit of a sophistication here.
	You need to see the big picture, and we're going to help you.
	And they bring them in and make them, you know, line them and dine them and make them feel like that they're really important to what they're doing.
	And then, of course, you know it, as you just said, it's a trap.
	They don't care anything about Rand Pauls.
	They don't care anything about Ron Paul.
	They don't care anything about you and me and the people out there across America that believe in liberty and are passionate about freedom.
	They don't care anything about us.
	But they will use anybody they can to their advantage.
	And in this particular case, I think Rand is playing right into their hand.
	I really do.
	And I think that that's a great observation on behalf of your father.
	And I think that he's learned that through a lot of life experience.
	I say that to you, you know, what is Rand going to do now for the next four years?
	Let's just assume that Romney gets elected.
	What is Rand going to do?
	You know, Rand is going to have to toe the line for Mitt Romney.
	I mean, he's already come out, he's publicly endorsed him, he's identified himself with him now, he's part of the establishment position, you know, the lesser of two evils, and we're going to go with the Republican no matter what, we all know what Romney's like, but we're going to go with him anyway because he's a Republican.
	So what are you going to do for the next four years?
	Where's the message of freedom going to come from?
	Where's the Dr. No message going to come from for the next four years?
	Ron Paul's retiring from Congress.
	We've got some good guys that may be going up there.
	Steve Stockman's down there in Charlie Wilson's district, and it looks like he might win, and he'll be a good voice for us from Texas.
	But you just don't replace Ron Paul in one session.
	Who's going to be the voice of freedom?
	Who's going to be the voice of constitutional government on Capitol Hill with Ron Paul gone, and Rand Paul in the back pocket of Mitt Romney for four years?
	You see, he's been muted.
	He's been neutered for four years.
	He's going to have to toe the line.
	He can't come out now and say, oh, I disagree with that, and I disagree with this, and I oppose this war, and I'm against this war.
	He's going to have to go along with Mitt Romney, whatever Mitt Romney says.
	So that will effectively have taken out the standard bearer, at least the name.
	of the standard-bearer that was out front on behalf of all of us who believe in constitutional government for the last two and a half decades.
	Now that's now gone.
	So I think it is a net loss for freedom-loving people, constitutionalists, libertarian-minded conservatives, etc.
	And it is a net gain for the globalists, the New World Order types.
	Exactly.
	It is, and it's so sad.
	And I begged them Friday and over the weekend to come out and just explain to people, hey, we know it's not perfect, and criticize Romney some and say we're going to be steadfast.
	But I've already seen them change course.
	Especially Rand on so many issues.
	Ron's talking about not even going now to the big, you know, counter event they were going to have.
	The word is, I was told this by high-level Republicans, that they've told Rand he may get the VP.
	I think they're going to betray him.
	Maybe they don't need to.
	He's shown, like you said, it's like Darth Vader.
	It's like Anakin Skywalker becoming Darth Vader.
	And I don't think Rand Paul even realizes this shit.
	And I guess he was an eye doctor.
	He didn't have the passion his dad did to try to get into politics immediately.
	I remember 10 years ago getting ranned on, you know, campaigning for his dad.
	I talked to him a few times.
	And I'm talking about it so much because it's a lesson to us all that you can't trust in any man.
	You know, you could have a brain aneurysm.
	They could put you on drugs.
	They could put a, you know, a copycat out.
	They could threat... Everybody's got a lever.
	And so I think at the end of the day you can only trust in God and trust in the basic Bill of Rights Constitution.
	But I mean just imagine George Washington compromising with King George.
	Imagine Ron Paul not endorsing Pastor Chuck Baldwin four years ago but endorsing John McCain.
	It's just such a departure from what we knew and now to be told We should grow up and we're stupid, because that's the new thing being put out by their surrogates.
	I mean, no, I'm not stupid.
	I get the game, like you said, but Ron Paul and Rand Paul were supposed to be different.
	They say, oh no, Rand's not Ron.
	Really?
	The fundraiser stuff I got in the mail, the money I gave him said he was.
	Pastor, Dr. Baldwin, go ahead, I'm sorry.
	Yeah, yeah, no, you're right.
	And that's what, to me, makes it more tragic, is the fact that Ron is not going to be in Congress next session.
	You know, if he were still going to be up there with that bully pulpit of his, you know, at least that voice for freedom and constitutional government would still be coming out of Washington, D.C.
	from Ron Paul.
	But he's retiring, so his voice is not going to be up there anymore.
	And Rand now is going to be muted by the fact that he's supporting Romney.
	So he won't be able to exercise, you know, those convictions and principles of constitutional government, even if he really, in his heart, believes them.
	He's now committed to Mitt Romney, and he knows that, and he made that decision.
	So that's what I'm saying.
	This leaves us without a real voice and leader in Washington, D.C.
	for these issues.
	And I'm not willing to, at this point, I'm not willing to suggest that Ron Paul is a part of this in the sense that he's going to come out and endorse Romney at a later point.
	I will tell you that I will be the most shocked person on earth if Ron does that.
	I don't believe he will.
	Yeah, he might as well commit political suicide on air if he thinks of doing that.
	I totally agree with you.
	But in a way this shows us that we've got to individually take over our local towns and cities politically as you're doing there in Montana educating people instead of just fighting in Washington.
	But it is This is like biblical.
	This is like a biblical story.
	I mean, the way this is happening, truth is stranger than fiction.
	Well, one of the things that happens when a nation goes into judgment is that God takes away the leaders.
	I mean, the true quality leaders, men of integrity and power and so forth.
	And, you know, we'd kind of hope that Rand would be the guy that would, you know, in Washington, D.C., that would take the Ron Paul revolution and continue to build it, but obviously now we know that he's not going to do that.
	He has already, in effect, dismantled the Ron Paul revolution to some degree.
	To what degree, we don't know yet.
	Given up his birthright!
	Yeah, he did.
	Okay, that's a good way of saying it.
	I think so.
	I think he gave up his birthright.
	It's totally biblical.
	I mean, I'm not just saying this because you're a pastor.
	This is just striking me like Shakespeare or the Bible.
	I mean, it's so intense to watch.
	He's got all this real righteous power built up and all these people totally behind him.
	And then he does this and everybody gets mad.
	And they're like, why are you upset?
	I'm just compromising.
	And it's like, well, your father didn't do that.
	And he says, I'm not my father.
	And then he's upset that we're like, OK, I guess you're not.
	I mean, what do you expect us to do?
	Well, like I said, when he was first elected, in my mind, in my heart, I just had a suspicion that he didn't share his father's convictions.
	And it was just a gut feeling more than anything.
	And I was willing to give the guy time and wait and see.
	I mean, I was very hopeful that he did.
	But there was just something in my heart that just made me wonder.
	And of course, now then I realize that my gut instinct was right.
	But, you know, I think it's important that for the people that really believe in constitutional government, that we stick with the message, regardless of who the individual leaders might be that kind of rise to the top at whatever level.
	To be the spokesman.
	And you know, Ron has said many times, it never was about him.
	It's always about the message.
	It's always about freedom.
	It's always about Constitution.
	It's about liberty, etc.
	He's said that how many times?
	And it's true.
	It is.
	So, you know, we're now at a passing of the torch kind of era in our country.
	And I think, you know, the torch at this point is going to be passed To all the rest of us.
	I agree.
	I think this can be actually a big win in the final equation where people realize, hey, Ron Paul's not going to do it all.
	You're going to have to do it.
	And this country is going into a very, very dark time.
	But getting back to the biblical angles from this, because I want to talk about your book, Psalm Romans 13, that we provide and sell at InfoWars.com.
	And I have a few other questions for you here tonight.
	But who was the disciple Uh... who denied Christ multiple times before the... Thomas... Thomas... Yes, the doubting Thomas.
	I mean, again, I hate to keep comparing it to that historically, but maybe, maybe Rand Paul is going to change.
	I mean, we don't know, and I think the pressure that we put on him, or the points that we put in front of him, may actually have an effect.
	But, my gut does say that he really believes the decision he's made is the right one.
	I think you're right.
	I think he will stand by the decision he's made.
	I would not look for him to recant what he's done.
	I think that part of it's been settled.
	When he made his decision, I think he knew what he was doing and he was bound to stick with it.
	I don't see him recanting that decision in any shape, manner, form.
	When you watch the Sean Hannity, at first he talks real slow, like he's about to jump off a cliff.
	And then you could tell he was not enjoying it.
	And that was worse.
	I mean, I say he's a good guy, and of course we're analyzing this, but he really hesitated.
	His body language was he didn't like saying that.
	It would have been better if he really believed it.
	Do you agree with that statement? - Well, you know, Alex, you know, when a guy says, does he really believe?
	I mean, he's done what he's done.
	You know, for his sake, I hope he kind of believes what he's done, because if he's deliberately done what he knows to be the wrong thing to do, then I pity him.
	I pity his soul.
	I pity his conscience.
	I pity his relationship with God.
	I mean, I hope he believes he's doing the right thing, or he wouldn't do it.
	You know, God help him if he knows in his heart of hearts that he's doing the wrong thing and he's doing it anyway.
	Well, to be clear, I mean, what I got from the body language, it was pretty clear, is he consciously, intellectually, has made excuses and thinks it's the right thing to do.
	But you could tell his gut when he said it.
	I mean, it was, I'm going to endorse Mitt Romney.
	I mean, he could barely say it.
	I don't know.
	I'm over-analyzing it.
	Well, the die is cast, as they say.
	I want to get into Romans 13 with you, Pastor, but I have a list of things, just quick points.
	I'd like to get a minute on each point from you and then find out what's most on your radar screen.
	Obviously, the Rand Paul thing, because we've been talking 35 minutes about it.
	What do you make of The announcement of drones armed against us, NDAA, secret arrest, Congress being told the U.N.
	and NATO are in charge of our military.
	I mean, everything you talked about 15 years ago, I talked about 15 years ago, that G.E.B.
	Griffin talked about 34 years ago, Ron Paul talked about... I mean, it's all happening.
	All those old-timers that had accurately gauged what was going to happen have the sources.
	It's really Been proven.
	And even though I knew it intellectually, to watch it all coming to pass, to watch the world government being announced, I mean, these are amazing times.
	So what's your view of the world right now on those points I just brought up?
	I think it's increasing exponentially.
	You know, it's no longer a secret.
	You know, we've got, what is it, 30,000 drones that have been ordered that are going to be flying over the continental United States of America.
	And that many of these drones are going to be armed with more than just cameras.
	They are going to be armed with munitions.
	We've got the NDAA still in effect, even after a federal judge in New York ruled that the indefinite detention provision of NDAA is not constitutional.
	In spite of that, the Congress, the very next day, went ahead and reauthorized NDAA for the year 13 and included the indefinite detention provision of NDAA.
	That was after a federal judge in New York City ruled the day before that that provision was not constitutional.
	The Congress turns right around the very next day and reintroduces it to NDAA 13.
	It doesn't matter whether you're Republican or Democrat on Capitol Hill or in the White House, this bent toward a police state, toward this global governance and turning our military, now we've got the U.S.
	Army Chief of Staff is on record as saying that it's up to the U.S.
	Army To facilitate domestic law enforcement against American citizens.
	Yeah, that was put out by the Council on Foreign... So we have members of the government that's coming out, head of the Army, saying, in the CFR, we're foreign commanded and we're going to have local military respond for the police.
	Exactly.
	I mean, it's all going into hyperdrive.
	Why?
	Well, because I think they know they've got the momentum and I think they've got the opportunity that they haven't had In probably ever.
	Sorry to say in decades, but ever.
	I don't think they've ever had an opportunity like they have today to go ahead and implement all these things that they've been trying to implement for how long?
	How long has this been going on, Alex?
	I mean, this is going on for decades and decades.
	And what, behind the scenes, quietly, exactly, this giant secret program is now decloaking, which means they're about to launch it.
	Is it stage terror?
	Bioweapons?
	I mean, clearly they want war with the people.
	What is it they've got planned that's so horrible, they know we're going to resist, and they've got to have all this ready?
	I mean, wow!
	Yeah, well, that's the question that none of us know.
	But the fact is, all of the handwriting's on the wall.
	I mean, you don't have to be a brain surgeon to figure this out of here.
	I mean, you've got A federal government that is positioning itself to declare war on the American citizenry.
	I mean, I don't know how to say it.
	It seems to me that all of these things that have been going on have now come to fruition.
	And what's going to be the seismic event that's going to be the starting gun uh... that's going to unleash all these laws and all these uh... executive orders and so forth and nobody knows nobody knows what nobody knows when but the fact is that all of the preparations are in place i mean people talking about it openly there's not even really uh... did i try to hide it anymore?
	Oh yeah, what did you think when the army, we got that document just like my ex saying you were basically a terrorist and Ron Paul was People didn't believe it for a week until the government admitted it.
	We got the Army document saying re-education camps for political dissidents in America and how to isolate us.
	And then the Army came out a week later and said, yeah, that's ours.
	I mean, what did you say?
	I mean, it's like even I can't believe.
	Really?
	You even call them re-education camps?
	I mean, I'm not going to a re-education camp.
	Yeah, that's what I say.
	The opportunity that they have, I think they feel, is an opportunity that has been their time to come.
	Well, I agree with you, but I think they're doing it because they know there's a wake-up happening.
	Well, they're probably going to orchestrate the wake-up.
	I mean, I don't think that anything that happens of that nature is accidental, do you?
	No, I don't.
	And let's be clear from history.
	Let's see if you agree with my basic analysis, and biblically as well, which is history.
	The elites are guided by an evil force.
	Call it the devil, Diablo, whatever you want, the color out of space, as Lovecraft called it.
	They always set themselves up for their own destruction.
	They're intelligent, but they're not wise.
	And I agree with you.
	I think things have to get really bad, and the judgment is actually the wake-up.
	I think the hedge of protection lowering, the shields are down, like Star Trek, the Klingons can now fire, they've unclogged.
	I believe this is the beginning of the victory.
	What do you say to that?
	I'm very optimistic, Alex.
	You know, I believe that there's a God in heaven.
	And I believe that this God in heaven loves liberty.
	And He loves people who love liberty.
	And I believe that there still is a opportunity and a land for liberty in this country.
	I don't think for one minute that God is going to abandon the people that believe in liberty.
	And how exactly he plans on re-establishing liberty in this country, I don't know.
	I don't have the mind of God, but I am very optimistic for the fact that no matter what the globalists and what the elitists have in store for us and how powerful they think they are, That there are still millions and millions of people across this country that believe in freedom, they believe in God, they believe in liberty, and the principles enshrined in our Constitution, our Declaration and Bill of Rights, and they are not going to lay down, roll over, and just let liberty be destroyed in this country.
	They're just not going to do it.
	And I believe that God is going to raise up a remnant.
	I think He's already doing it.
	We're seeing it here in our neck of the woods.
	Other places around the country are seeing it as well.
	And I'm optimistic that whatever the elites have in store for us, I think God is greater than they are, and liberty is certainly greater than tyranny.
	Well, you said it.
	In closing, we sell your book.
	It's excellent.
	Every pastor in America should be given this, because I've gone to church after church here in Austin, and they're good people.
	They're awake.
	They love God.
	They're awake in that.
	And I run to my listeners.
	But, it's then a worship of the police state.
	And, you know, do what you're told.
	And they're not even so much Clergy Response Team, but above them is that, even in small churches, it's Hitler's favorite verse, do what the government says, it's God.
	Well, we're the people, we are the government.
	And I know your book breaks this down.
	It's short, it's sweet, it's very well written.
	It's available at InfoWars.com.
	Even if you're not a Christian out there, folks, 80% or 75% say they are.
	They go to church.
	And the average church is not a church.
	It's now a charity.
	It's government controlled.
	It's their brainwashing people.
	This is such a key weapon to get to your pastors.
	In fact, I keep forgetting there's a little church down the street, a Baptist church.
	We've been two or three times, and they're good people, but there's always some government worship in there.
	And I'm going to go give this to the pastor.
	Actually, I'm going to do it this Sunday.
	Romans 13, the true meaning of submission, 2nd edition, Timothy Baldwin is the constitutional lawyer's son, and Chuck Baldwin, of course, who's on with us now.
	Spend five minutes.
	You've got the floor, Pastor, in closing to tell us about the book and the basic facts of, I mean, Is worship of the government what we're supposed to do?
	Because my whole Old Testament and New Testament is nothing but resistance to corrupt governments.
	But I mean, I guess I'm reading a different Bible than the folks pushing this.
	Yeah, you must be reading the real Bible.
	If you were to take out all the examples in both Testaments of the men and women who resisted civil authority, Because that civil authority trampled upon their convictions as people of God, you would probably eliminate three-fourths of the Bible.
	Most of the examples of Scripture relative to the men and women of Scripture relate to the resistance to civil government in one form or another.
	So that's the history.
	of Christianity.
	It's the history of America.
	I'm really... I get really perturbed at these pastors who say on the one hand that the founding fathers were, you know, illegal and criminal whenever they revolted against the crown and fought our war for independence on the one hand, and then every July 4th
	They'll have these patriotic services in their churches and extol the virtues of the United States of America and the Founding Fathers for bringing this country into existence.
	On the other hand, I mean, you can't have it both ways, and that's exactly what they try to do.
	The Bible, from Old and New Testament, gives proper jurisdiction to all authority, whether it's governmental authority, whether it's family authority, vocational authority.
	Every authority has a jurisdiction given by God.
	God is the only sovereign.
	He's the only king of the universe.
	He's the only one who has power and authority over all.
	To men, He gives limited authority.
	And with that limitation comes jurisdiction.
	And each jurisdiction has the responsibility to understand what is that jurisdiction, and understand what is that authority, and then to relate to that authority based upon how they accept the responsibility.
	When they live within the confines of truth and the jurisdiction that God has granted them, they should be submitted to, they should be respected, they should be obeyed, as we all try to do those that are in authority.
	But when that authority figure oversteps that boundary, whenever he oversteps that jurisdiction that God has given him, then he becomes a tyrant.
	And he deserves not our respect, nor does he deserve our obedience.
	We are required by God to resist an evil, unlawful authority.
	Because when we do that, we've allowed that tyrant to become like God over us.
	And we have no other gods except God.
	That's the very first and greatest commandment.
	So we cannot allow anyone in a limited jurisdictional role to overstep that boundary that God has given them and their authority without becoming idolaters.
	If we allow a government or a pastor or a husband or father or a boss at work or a policeman or anybody else to overstep that God-given boundary, that God-given jurisdiction that He has from His Creator, We, the person that submits to that tyranny, we have become an idolater.
	Well, that's right, and if you look at the Communist Chinese, they won't even allow Falun Gong to do exercises.
	Communism, total government, always is at war with religion, period, but especially Christianity, because it wants to be the god.
	And I remember sitting in church as a kid going, we don't have idols.
	I didn't know what that meant, a golden calf.
	It's the worship of that system putting it first.
	And it's not God trying to run our lives and control us.
	God's saying follow these basic rules or you're going to be slaves.
	I mean, it's so simple.
	Exactly right, and that's why Tim and I wrote the book, because of this fallacious, erroneous interpretation of Romans 13, obey the government no matter what, which is prevalent among churches large and small all over the country.
	And I'm convinced if we don't awaken the pastors to the true meaning of Romans chapter 13, we're not going to have real restoration of liberty in this country.
	It's essential that the clergy awaken to their duty before God relative to the issues of liberty and freedom, And the understanding of Romans chapter 13, and not just that passage, but the entire passage of Scripture as it relates to this topic, must be identified and understood.
	And so that's why we felt it was so important to write this book.
	Well, I agree with you, and it's simple.
	I mean, look, it was pastors that led the Revolutionary War.
	It was pastors that led the fight against slavery everywhere, and the system knows that.
	That's why they've taken it over.
	It was Hitler's favorite passage, Romans 13, you know, that he was there because God put him in charge.
	Total distortion when you actually read it in whole, and this is such an important book, Romans 13, The True Meaning of Submission, second edition, available at InfoWars.com.
	Pastor Chuck Baldwin, I think, I may have missed it, but I think this is your first big official response that I've seen to the Rand Paul controversy.
	I think this will really help people navigate.
	I think you've said in just 30 minutes of the hour-long interview, or it's almost 50 minutes long, what I've tried to say in almost a week of floundering around, just trying to analyze every issue, every facet of it.
	But thank you so much for joining us.
	I think in the 15 years or so I've been interviewing you, I think this is the best and most important interview we've ever done.
	Well, thank you, Alex.
	I'm honored to be on the show.
	Keep up the good work, and yeah, let's just pray for our country and pray for all the people out there that really believe in freedom and liberty and constitutional government, and pray that God will give us wisdom and courage to stay the course.
	Well, if we need any proof of how real all this is, look at everything unfolding in front of us.
	That's one thing about this world and God, is that you get lots of chances to make the right decision.
	I mean, how out in the open does this evil have to get before people wake up and say no to it?
	I mean, it is so...
	Cartoon level off the charts, crazy.
	They're going to ban in New York now popcorn and milk, saying it's unhealthy.
	The UN's running our local governments under, I mean, when does it end?
	I mean, this is just the beginning.
	Yep, and that's what made Ron Paul so successful for all these years, is he understood the real issue, he didn't compromise with evil, and he understood the globalist agenda And he was a tremendous voice, and I will still believe that he will maintain that fidelity.
	I just do not believe that he's going to endorse Romney, and I think that he'll continue to be a force to be reckoned with, even though he's out of Congress.
	And I would like to think that those of us that have been supporting him and others like him around the country for the last several years, We're just going to increase in size and strength and determination and enthusiasm, and we're just not going to let the enemy prevail.
	We're just not going to do it.
	Absolutely.
	We can't turn this into a rout and demoralization.
	It's actually a lesson.
	Thank you, Pastor.
	All right.
	Thank you, Alex.
	Wow, that was an in-depth interview.
	Two big interviews tonight.
	The guys are so dedicated in there.
	I'm like, we need to make the show 30 minutes long, and it's going to be five hours because of Wes in there and also John, Marcos, everybody.
	We've got a skeleton crew.
	We're putting out even more powerful, informative shows every evening.
	If you believe in what we're doing, you don't have to buy anything at InfoWorks.com or become a PrisonPlanet.tv member.
	We have a 15-day free trial right now.
	All you've got to do Spread the word about this show.
	Send out this video when you see it posted later on the web from PrisonPlanet.tv to everybody you know.
	Spread the word about what we're doing because that's what we're after, hearts and minds.
	I just want to get people to think for themselves.
	And look, if you're turned off by having a pastor on here that Ron Paul endorsed for president four years ago, that's your problem.
	The ideas of liberty are transcendent across the board.
	And this country was founded on these principles.
	And if you wonder why Christians support war and tyranny and the police state, it's because they're not even They're following what's in the Bible.
	They're following what these sold-out globalist preachers are telling them, and that's why this book is so important.
	So please support us.
	Get the book Romans 13 at Infowars.com.
	More importantly, get it and give it to your local pastor.
	Even if it's not your church, go give it to preachers.
	And please spread the word about what we're doing because we are busting our butts on this worthy cause.
	Wild horses couldn't drag me away.
	All right, I'm Alex Jones signing off from the front lines of the Info War, another expanded edition.
	Sometimes this TV show's a little better than a radio show.
	This thing's got a fraction of the audience, so again, help this message get out to everyone.
	All right, that's it.
	You know I run on, that's why I'm a talk show host.
	Hey, that guy ought to have a radio show.
	He never shuts up.
	That's it, ladies and gentlemen.
	We'll see you, Lord willing, back tomorrow night and back on the radio at 12 noon Eastern.
	Infowars.com and PrisonPlanet.tv.
	Romans 13, Hitler's favorite passage.

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