Aug. 4, 2021 - America First - Nicholas J. Fuentes
08:50:53
Participants
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| That's going to matter a lot more. | ||
|
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That's going to matter a lot. | |
| That's going to matter a lot. | ||
| That's going to matter a lot. | ||
| That's going to matter a lot. | ||
| That's going to matter a lot. | ||
| That's going to matter a lot. | ||
| That's going to matter a lot. | ||
| You can't scam me. | ||
| If everybody had a nose across the USA, then everybody'd be serving like California. | ||
| You can't scare me. | ||
| Where are their baggies? | ||
| Where are your fellows, dude? | ||
| A bushy, bushy blonde-haired dude serving USA. | ||
| Bushy Bushy blonde hair dude Serving USA *crickets* *crickets* *crickets* *crickets* *crickets* *sad music* *crickets* *crickets* | ||
| Hey! | ||
| *crickets* *crickets* | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| *crickets* *crickets* *crickets* | ||
| *crickets* *crickets* *crickets* *crickets* | ||
| Transcription by CastingWords | ||
| Transcription by CastingWords Transcription by CastingWords And I think, to most people, means nothing. | ||
| But critical race theory is an inaccurate way to describe academic jargon. | ||
| The phrase critical race theory doesn't mean anything. | ||
| What is the overriding message of so-called critical race theory programs? | ||
| It is to vilify white Americans. | ||
| That's how it expresses itself in education. | ||
| That's how it expresses itself in the military, in the private sector, in the federal government. | ||
| What's happening in our schools and our military and our government is both simpler and easier to recognize than that. | ||
| You could also say that it's just anti-white. | ||
| So, anti-white racism is exploding across the country. | ||
| Obviously, no one wants to say it, but it's right in your face every single day. | ||
| When you say the military is practicing critical race theory, what actually does that mean? | ||
| There might be a small handful of experts who could tell you exactly what that means. | ||
| Because we've been tied up in some pointless debate about a concept that nobody can actually define. | ||
| Maybe on a technical academic level you could say that that curriculum was inspired by critical race theory, which is a Marxist school of thought from certain academic institutions. | ||
| The race hate, and that's what it is, has oozed from the universities and it has infected the entire country, including at the very highest levels. | ||
|
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But as soon as people start playing games, I stop. | |
| I stop playing games. | ||
| And at any moment, you should say, yeah, you play. | ||
| They said trust no man, but you promise. | ||
| I believe you, day was in the color. | ||
| I said treat you with girls and your mother. | ||
| My mama said trust no ho, you so cover. | ||
| But that, one, two, stop the track. | ||
| I think it's the first, etch. | ||
| See, Ricky said, buddy, don't want to fool you. | ||
| I'm back with partners. | ||
| It's the one you pay when homies always get before you start it. | ||
| You know, man, but the man above your head. | ||
| Pray before you go to bed. | ||
| Everything my heart will see. | ||
| It's the first day, all day, all day, all day. | ||
| I wonder where it doesn't seem to be. | ||
| Can't they take those targets? | ||
| I just enforce them, alright? | ||
|
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I can enjoy them, alright? | |
| They said trust no man, but you promise I can never leave your day was in the car. | ||
| They said trust the girls like the mother. | ||
| My mama said trust no hope, use the water. | ||
| But they said trust no man, but you promise I can never leave your day was in the car. | ||
| Last up, Scott. | ||
| Everything. | ||
| Warming on everybody who dared to vote. | ||
| Warming on everybody who dared to vote. | ||
| Warming on everybody who dared to vote. | ||
| Okay, good evening everybody. | ||
| You are watching America First. | ||
| My name is Nicholas J. Fuentes. | ||
| We got a great show for you tonight. | ||
| We are watching the TimCast IRL livestream, a live debate between Charlie Kirk and the Fat Gay Retard, Vosh. | ||
| And we're getting started right away, so I'm going to turn on our volume here, and we're going to dive right in. | ||
| I'll be live reacting to this debate. | ||
| It's unprecedented, and I'll I'll be live reacting to this debate. | ||
| It's unprecedented. | ||
| And I'll be giving my commentary and my thoughts as we go on, but let's just jump right into it, because it's already begun here. | ||
| Head over to TimCast.com, become a member. | ||
| I'm going to put out a notification on Telegram, I forgot to do that. | ||
| And exclusive access to members-only segments of this show. | ||
| And I guess, I wasn't initially planning on it, but I guess everyone's cool to do a member segment after the show, and we'll find something fun to talk about. | ||
| So, you know, we'll see how it plays out. | ||
| So make sure you become a member, make sure you like this video, subscribe to this channel, share it with your friends. | ||
| If you think this conversation is important, I'm sure there are many right-wing individuals like Get him Charlie Crush Vosch, and there's a lot of left-wing people being like, Vosch is gonna own... Share it with your friends, and let's have a good conversation. | ||
| And I suppose we could... | ||
| So, everybody get in chat, raid chat. | ||
| Oh, it's sub only. | ||
| Oh no, I can't even say anything. | ||
|
unidentified
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Don't sub! | |
| Don't sub! | ||
| But if you are subbed, make sure you say Nick Fuentes. | ||
| Spam Nick Fuentes. | ||
| Spam debate Nick Fuentes. | ||
| If you're in the live chat, if you're a subscriber, I'm not going to encourage people to subscribe, but if you are a subscriber, spam Nick Fuentes. | ||
| Spam debate Nick Fuentes. | ||
| Well, then they called in the police, and there were big protests. | ||
| Mandates, what would happen if they came here, if you're for or against them? | ||
| Look, there are elements of mandates that I can agree with. | ||
| We've already set standards for other things like the MMR vaccine, very basic standard vaccines that we expect everyone get before they can go to school, travel, and I think for the most part that's worked. | ||
| We've eradicated plagues from the world. | ||
| I think we should be proud of that. | ||
| With regards to COVID, since this is an ongoing pandemic, we need to focus on approaches that are effective and that don't ostracize or exacerbate tensions. | ||
| With regard to the Australian situation, it's not something I'm extensively familiar with, but generally speaking... | ||
|
unidentified
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Let's go! | |
| Let's go! | ||
| Let's freaking go! | ||
| way to incentivize... | ||
| Debate Nick Fletta. | ||
| Let's freaking go! | ||
| Continue. | ||
| Continue to raid the live stream. | ||
| ...some confusion from the beginning as to whether or not you should keep that. | ||
|
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I know... ...way. | |
| They made it too big for wallets. | ||
| It just felt a little bit haphazardly planned from the forego, so that's unfortunate. | ||
| Maybe they can find other ways to incentivize it, like, for example, in schools where they have a direct access to government records where they wouldn't have to use those... | ||
|
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Look at how sweaty he is. | |
| That might be a little bit better. | ||
| I guess we'll have to see. | ||
| Well, I'm not saying you believe this, but some people on the left, I never want to hear about the discussion of voter ID ever again. | ||
| Me and Charlie are matching. | ||
| Force people to identify their medical history to try to get into a restaurant in New York City. | ||
| Yeah, look, I'm not getting the vaccine, so I'm part of the 100 million people that are unvaccinated. | ||
| It's questionably effective. | ||
| Lindsey Graham just came down with COVID. | ||
| You had a vessel, a ship in the United Kingdom, 100% vaccinated ship that came down with COVID. | ||
| It's more like a treatment than a vaccine. | ||
| I'll leave the conversation to Dr. Brett Weinstein and the people that really understand how that works. | ||
| But yeah, this is medical apartheid. | ||
| This is trying to create a two-tiered system where if you don't make the proper medical decisions, you're not able to go to Broadway shows or go into restaurants, even when the efficacy of this vaccine is questionable at best. | ||
| We see that in Israel, an 85% vaccinated country. | ||
| That's about to lock down again. | ||
|
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Charlie Curtis named them. | |
| Sorry, you want to interject him? | ||
| Obviously against mandates and I think people should be able to make their own medical decisions. | ||
| I think it's pretty obvious. | ||
| Well, I disagree. | ||
| I think we actually have a story we wrote on TimCast.com that our view of the lockdowns is that it's alarmism because a new study from the Public Health of England found the Pfizer vaccine is 96% effective after two doses at staving off the Delta variant and AstraZeneca was 92%. | ||
| That's not true! | ||
| I could probably agree it's alarmism. | ||
| But it's enough of an alarm for the public health leaders to undermine the argument that the vaccine is a solution to what would possibly satisfy the public. | ||
| I mean, I was against the lockdowns in the first place. | ||
| Let me be very clear, when there was a thousand deaths a day, not three hundred thirty four. | ||
| But sorry, go ahead. | ||
| Well, on the safety and effectiveness of these vaccines, the reason why the FDA study hasn't been finished, ...hasn't been finished. | ||
| The reason why it hasn't been fully vetted isn't because they're looking for long-term health effects. | ||
| It's because they're determining the extent to which it protects you over a long period of time. | ||
| Ergo, the fact of the matter is, by all available data, this is undeniably much safer to get the vaccine. | ||
| I mean, by orders of magnitude. | ||
| Let me ask you a question. | ||
| Wait, a couple things, because you said a few things there. | ||
| Um, there are some instances where areas have more people being infected if they're already vaccinated. | ||
| But if you take a look at like, this is like data mining. | ||
| If you take a look at the broader statistics, especially here in America, the number of people who have gotten... | ||
| That's not true though. | ||
| vaccinated you can take a look at the numbers where is this new wave exploding it's in the unvaccinated in spite of the fact that fewer and fewer people are remaining unvaccinated the vaccinated stay relatively healthy and not only do they get infected way less often they also suffer far fewer severe symptoms that's not true though we covered the data last week on the show compared to people who are unvaccinated This is, by all means, an effective vaccine. | ||
| What's your opinion of Johnson & Johnson? | ||
| The FDA is saying that it might cause a rare nerve disease. | ||
| Yeah, that's something that, first of all, when you take a look at that, you have to recognize that even if that was the case... Which the FDA says it is. | ||
| Looking into it, of course. | ||
| They issued an official warning that it could issue a rare nerve disease. | ||
| That's a big issue. | ||
| Let's go! | ||
|
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Let's go! | |
| And that is something to look into and to be concerned about. | ||
| What's your opinion of VAERS, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System? | ||
| Hold on. | ||
| I'm just curious. | ||
|
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Let's go! | |
| Even if that claim is the case, it would remain the fact that unless the extent of that potential nerve damage is just apocalyptically severe, the effects of getting COVID would still be far, far worse than the potential side effects of that vaccine. | ||
| However, if you were to say, let's say worst case, you know, Johnson and Johnson, it's not viable, that gets pulled. | ||
| We see what the consequences I got Pfizer for example. | ||
| We're talking hundreds of are much, much, much more. | ||
| So I just want to just kind of just play into the irony here that I'm the one criticizing the pharmaceutical companies and you're the ones that are, you're the one defending. | ||
| Let's go. | ||
| That's an extremely, you're peddling the Pfizer vaccine. | ||
| You're so effective. | ||
| Let's talk about the points he's made. | ||
| Damn fool, damn fool. | ||
| hold on maybe astrazeneca moderna johnson and johnson and pfizer this is let's let's let's let's let's talk about the points he's made and i'm just damn fool damn fool it's well the thing is it's not really like irony if you understand the issue at hand see my praise doesn't go to the pharmaceutical wireless workers who spend oh please developing these vaccines distribution Isn't that your whole shtick? | ||
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Workers' rights! | |
| Let's try and go back and forth. | ||
| The workers or the Pfizer's CEO? | ||
| Let's go! | ||
| Nobody's talking about who gets rich. | ||
| This is a toothless critique. | ||
| Isn't that your whole shtick? | ||
| This is a toothless critique that you could... | ||
| Let's try and go back and forth. | ||
| This is a toothless critique that you could apply to literally anything that you don't like. | ||
| Everything in this country is manufactured to the profit of the CEO. | ||
| We don't mandate it and say you can't go to restaurants if you don't get one of four major pharmaceutical medicines. | ||
| I just want to say, if that's your criticism... That's one of many. | ||
| So if that's the criticism you want to focus on, I'm in favor of nationalizing the pharmaceutical industry. | ||
| I'm willing to take it that far. | ||
| But whether or not that's on the table... That's not a praise of the capitalist industry behind it. | ||
| I was just enjoying the irony, that's all. | ||
| It's not an irony. | ||
| Well, it's totally ironic, because I'm the one saying that they might be lying to us, and you're the one that's saying it's super effective. | ||
| Wait, what? | ||
| Usually, if we were wearing our traditional uniforms, right versus left, it would be the other way around. | ||
| That's all I'm saying. | ||
| The only comment I'm making is as to the effectiveness of the vaccine. | ||
| What do you have to say about VAERS, though? | ||
| What do you have to say about the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System that says, well, over 7,000 people experience death after getting the vaccine? | ||
| Does that worry you? | ||
| The VAERS system is entirely self-reported. | ||
| I don't think it's generally used to form an accurate metric. | ||
| Do you think it's under-reported or over-reported? | ||
| With VAERS, it's almost impossible to say. | ||
| You know what VAERS is, right? | ||
| Can you tell me what VAERS is? | ||
| Yeah, VAERS is a government website that physicians or individuals can submit complaints or concerns after an adverse event report from a vaccine. | ||
| Since you cannot win in court against a vaccine production company, then they go through some adverse event reaction. | ||
| That's what VAERS is. | ||
| And researchers like it because vaccine or you get some other procedure any medical drug done you can report the effects there and it can be a way of gathering sort of aggregate data concerning the effects of these of these potential treatments the problem is researchers don't use this as a bulletproof way of determining the outcome or effect of anything because they're ...online submissions that anybody can put in. | ||
| So I ask you, because I want to know, how do you arrive at the conclusion that, how many people did you say applied? | ||
| Well, VAERS' own data is 7,000 plus, and most of which, by the way... That anyone can submit? | ||
| By the way, most of which are physicians submitted, just so you know. | ||
| The total number? | ||
| Most of the submissions on the VAERS website are done by family doctors or local physicians. | ||
| So I'm just asking, what number of adverse event reactions would you say maybe there's something wrong? | ||
| 10,000 deaths? | ||
| 20,000 deaths? | ||
| No, I'm just saying that's what VAERS says, right? | ||
| Is these just people who have died after taking the vaccine? | ||
| Like they may have died from some medical ...incident afterwards and it just gets put up there and we're saying it's because of the vaccine? | ||
| This is the question. | ||
| Usually a vaccine gets pulled when you have 15 attributable deaths. | ||
| We have 7,000 that we have to go through. | ||
| The question is, when do you call Time Out and say, maybe we should mandate it? | ||
| You're not answering the question. | ||
| How do you know that they're from the vaccine? | ||
| We don't. | ||
| That's the point. | ||
| But you don't either. | ||
| But the position is, let's mandate experimental medicine. | ||
| We don't know actually what's happening. | ||
| Wait, if you don't know, then how can you say that medical doctors are the one uploading this information? | ||
| We do know who's actually uploading it. | ||
| We know that. | ||
| We know the entries are usually and typically traditionally. | ||
| How about menstrual cycle disruption? | ||
| Mood changes? | ||
| Also, go through the VAERS database. | ||
|
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It's all real. | |
| How do they know what's from the vaccine? | ||
| I keep asking you this. | ||
| Let me address two points, one from each of you real quick, so we can try and... How do we know it's from the vaccine? | ||
| It's a difficult question. | ||
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That's the whole point, you don't know. | |
| That's exactly the problem. | ||
| That's the whole point, you don't know. | ||
|
unidentified
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That's exactly the problem. | |
| That's the whole point, you don't know. | ||
| I'm not a scientist, so I can't stress that. | ||
| I will also say, however, to Charlie, Guillain-Barré syndrome, which I'm probably pronouncing wrong, it's a side effect of... I always mispronounce it. | ||
|
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Guillain-Barré. | |
| Guillain-Barré, there you go. | ||
| My understanding is actually a side effect of many vaccines. | ||
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Yeah, it is. | |
| And so totally, that's correct. | ||
| It could. | ||
| A million, 160 million. 115. | ||
| I think it is. | ||
| A million. | ||
| Who have been fully vaccinated? | ||
| Fully vaccinated. | ||
| I think in that ballpark. | ||
| So, of course, you know, if you, if you, you have something very different from, uh, any other vaccination. | ||
| Go on spamming debate next Wednesday. | ||
| Just keep that going. | ||
| It's very good. | ||
| This is a mass inoculation thing. | ||
| And so here's why the American system should answer this question easily. | ||
| When you have any sort of uncertainty or disagreement, yield to rights. | ||
| Yield to rights. | ||
| Allow people to say no. | ||
| Let me just pull out the argument, right? | ||
| So for me, for example, I'm 20. | ||
| I don't consider COVID to be a largely disproportionate risk to my way of life. | ||
| I don't know about this vaccine. | ||
| I have gotten other vaccines in my life. | ||
| So I want to be able to have the right to say no to that. | ||
| So the American system constitution, kind of like the tradition, is to be able to have people have nuance, preferences, and individualism. | ||
| When it comes to these sort of complex issues, not saying you can't go to a restaurant because we want you to take experimental medicine. | ||
| Right, so a couple of points on that. | ||
| First of all, if we're speaking to legal rights, the Supreme Court found over a century ago that when it came to vaccinations, this was a special exemption from some people's rights to... I will agree. | ||
| When you choose not to take the vaccine, you contribute to the removal of others freedoms see it's true you do have a freedom to not or to take a vaccine but i think other people should have the freedom to not grow up in a world ridden by plague and with the way this disease covid mutates with time as all diseases do inevitably if it continues to circle the world the vaccine is causing this is an international problem | ||
| not just the mutation is in response to the vaccine which will slowly ebb at the effectiveness of this set of vaccines so it threatens all of us just for what may i say one other thing sorry sorry um with all of that being said just to speak to vars vars is an system for locating and roughly attributing concerns related to the effects of drugs l Elements to this disease that make it really difficult to pinpoint anything specific. | ||
| The second, the two of which being A, hundreds of millions of people vaccinated. | ||
| That is a huge range to pull data from. | ||
| And B, the, you know, propagandist fear campaign. | ||
| It's a huge range to pull data from. | ||
| It's an incredibly effective vaccine process that may lead people to misattribute the deaths that they experience to vaccines. | ||
| Just a quick clarification. | ||
| Are you for mandating the COVID-19 vaccine? | ||
| Uh, the same way we have other vaccines, like school, travel, that kind of stuff. | ||
|
unidentified
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He won't give a straight answer. | |
| So, like, what if someone wanted to go to a restaurant, or a supermarket, or a movie theater? | ||
| I think that, I mean, we don't have that for other vaccines, right? | ||
| Like, every time you go to a movie theater, you have a little card. | ||
| I understand that might be an effective... ...long term, my goal would be to integrate it into the same revenue... No, I think that's a more... I just want to make sure we weren't having, like, you know, misunderstandings... No, I think that's more of a reasonable answer. | ||
| I'm curious, just on the vaccine topic in general, are you concerned by Dr. Malone coming out who literally invented the mRNA vaccine and says that there's a dangerous spike protein involved and encourages people to think twice before getting it? | ||
| Does that move you at all? | ||
| Well, you're free to speak with your doctor when it comes to... No, Dr. Malone, just his specific commentary. | ||
| His specific commentary. | ||
| The guy who invented this type of vaccine. | ||
| Well, I'm not a PhD and I doubt that he was... But he's very, very aware of the sort of Accelerate implementation. | ||
| He's trying to call timeout and tell people this is not It's going to have side effects. | ||
| You don't understand it like I did. | ||
| I invented this, and you've got to think twice before mandating it, or even taking it if you're under a certain age. | ||
| Does that bother you? | ||
| What makes the current retinol vaccines that we take, the mRNA process, different from other mRNA vaccines? | ||
| It doesn't involve the spike protein. | ||
| According to him, the same composition as, like, the measles, mumps, rubella-type vaccine, or the chickenpox vaccine. | ||
| Well, those weren't mRNA. | ||
| The process wasn't developed back during the MMR vaccine. | ||
| Totally, but some of them are getting updated for the more mRNA-type technology, right? | ||
| If he wasn't involved in the production of these modern vaccines, how could he possibly have any comment on any of the rigors or tests that were done before him? | ||
| Because he invented this type of vaccine. | ||
| I'm just saying, does that bother you? | ||
| Do you think he's just like a fear propagandist? | ||
| No, he may well have I have concerns, but those are concerns that I would rather have addressed by the scientific community rather than, with respect to you and myself, YouTubers. | ||
| Well, no, I agree, but the question is which scientists, right? | ||
| So there's a lot of scientists speaking out against this. | ||
| Dr. Brett Weinstein. | ||
|
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They always appeal to the scientific community. | |
| What is Dr. Brett Weinstein, especially? | ||
| He's an evolutionary biologist, so he knows a little bit about cellular function. | ||
| We can't evaluate for ourselves. | ||
|
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We have to trust the scientists that say the things I agree with. | |
| Do you trust Fauci more, or Dr. Brett Weinstein? | ||
| It's not about Fauci. | ||
| He's a virologist who's been wrong about everything. | ||
| Q-H-O? | ||
| Like, no, I'm not- Hold on, put a name behind it. | ||
| He's very excited. | ||
| I just want to say it's not just about the WHO. | ||
| We're talking about a unified effort on the part of virtually every country on earth to get a hold of the vaccines that us Americans are privileged to have. | ||
| This isn't some like pharmaceutical Dr. Fauci push that wasn't broadly supported by any of the relevant experts. | ||
| In the mRNA field, which is not huge because it's a very new development, internationally there is a demand for these vaccines. | ||
| I wanted to add, just based on what you had said, I can pull up Reuters, their fact check is that vaccines are not, quote, cytotoxic. | ||
| They go on to mention that Robert Malone, and they show the Brett Weinstein podcast, they show cytotoxic, toxic to cells, the FDA did nothing. | ||
| This is not true. | ||
| Now, the issue at hand is trust. | ||
| Like you mentioned, you said you trust Fauci or Weinstein. | ||
| I don't know if there is a fact-based argument if you have the doctors you trust and the doctors you trust or the organizations you trust. | ||
| It's a clash of who you believe, to be honest. | ||
| None of us have the credentials to just come up with these arguments on their own. | ||
| There will always be bias in who we choose to believe. | ||
| However, given the plurality of people who seem to support the safety and the effectiveness of the vaccine, and the fact that it doesn't take a virologist to notice that over half a million Americans have died of COVID, more than the combined death toll from World War II and the Second World War in Vietnam... Nine out of ten with comorbidities! | ||
| Can I ask you a question though? | ||
| That's pretty bad. | ||
| One of the issues with COVID, as it's brought up, where people would say something like, tends to be people who are over 70 or things like that. | ||
| I'm only bringing it up, not to make the argument, but because you said, how would VAERS know if these are actually related to the vaccine? | ||
| I'd love to respond to that, if I may. | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| So, COVID rarely, like, directly kills you. | ||
| Like age, it causes a breakdown in other vital functions that then their death can be attributed to such. | ||
| So, for example, of the many things that people die, it's not really COVID, it's just that COVID blanks their intake, claiming that there were deaths being spuriously attributed to COVID-19. | ||
| There are people that got hit by a car, died, happened out of COVID, and they call that a COVID death. | ||
| That's real. | ||
| That has happened. | ||
| We see an excess, starting when COVID started, that almost perfectly graphs onto the rising death waves of COVID. | ||
| I mean it perfectly tracks onto that. | ||
| I just want to say for you, Charlie, I think, you know, the issue I see here is, for me, it's, I can't trust or distrust, I don't know, you know, I think Brett Weinstein's a very smart guy, and I don't think he's going to lie to me, and these doctors are very smart people, then I see the government agencies that, you know, I don't always trust the government, to be completely honest, I'm not a big fan, but to believe that there's like a nefarious effort or anything like that, ultimately what it comes down to is, in my opinion, having a trusted Really good idea for you. | ||
| However, to mandate it for schools and for colleges, when these are highly complex medical decisions, that's where I'm going to push back against it. | ||
| The Johnson & Johnson vaccine is not an mRNA vaccine, though. | ||
| That's my understanding. | ||
| I don't want to speak out of turn. | ||
| I believe so. | ||
| I would love to be fact-checked on that. | ||
| I'm not totally sure. | ||
| So I guess another question I have, what do you think of alternative type treatments, hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin. | ||
| Why the push for mass inoculation? | ||
| Well, because, well, hydroxychloroquine studies have when studies have found it largely ineffective. | ||
| There was, I believe, a French study that stopped when people started dying of heart failure. | ||
| I think the only reason the right dies in this hill is because Trump mentioned it. | ||
| I don't think there'd be a push for it otherwise. | ||
| The vaccines are the effective way of getting mass populations inoculated. | ||
| And, while it is true that most of the people who die are ancient, the fact remains that people experience long-term side effects from getting COVID, even if they survive. | ||
| I know people who are in their 30s, and you know me, a blistering 27-year-old myself, I'm not especially worried, but I've heard them talk about how much harder it is for them to climb up flights of stairs. | ||
| I know that erectile dysfunction, fellows, is one of the listed . | ||
| It is true that death is most comorbid with age and pre-existing conditions, but still. | ||
| And that's not even the speak of the COVID variants. | ||
| I mean, right now we're on what, Delta? | ||
| But if it keeps cycling around the world, who knows how this could get? | ||
| Very high IQ. | ||
| So Johnson & Johnson is not an mRNA vaccine. | ||
| So, there's an alternative to mRNA if you're concerned about it. | ||
| And there was some guidance with the nerve disease with that. | ||
| Sorry to interrupt. | ||
| I do think we kind of overlooked something really interesting is that when did we mandate vaccinations in public schools? | ||
| Uh, well, I know the Supreme Court case concerning this was in 1904. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So I would know it would have to have been earlier than that. | ||
| I know that Washington even had his troops vaccinated, though. | ||
| For smallpox. | ||
| Smallpox, was it? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Um, which is pretty crazy to think about. | ||
| Inoculated, not vaccinated. | ||
| You're right. | ||
| Well, I don't know what they did. | ||
| Hit people with a rock and then like- It was like a- It's all very interesting stuff. | ||
| The problem with Kurt's argument is he's giving so much to the other side, saying like, well, I just don't want to take it. | ||
| Really? | ||
| They still, I know, like someone pouring it and then like. | ||
| The problem with Kurt's argument is he's giving so much to the other side, saying like, well, I just don't want to take it. | ||
| I think the real issue for the most part is just mandatory. | ||
| Well, I just also have another question. | ||
| Do you think that there might be any bad motives behind these four companies, AstraZeneca, Moderna, Pfizer, and Johnson & Johnson? | ||
|
unidentified
|
You don't even have to. | |
| Considering they are big pharma and they pursue profit. - Unnecessary. - Which generally as a libertarian socialist you're skeptical of, Do you think maybe they might have nefarious motives? | ||
| Oh, their intentions are reprehensible. | ||
| And the Sackler family. | ||
| You know, an effort invested in by the collective good. | ||
| Something I'm generally supportive of. | ||
| When it comes to these companies themselves, and when I say, you know, go get your Pfizer vaccine, whatever, please do not mistake this or anything else that I say for an endorsement of the practices of these companies. | ||
| It is only through cruel twist of fate and the economic system we live in that they are the ones put in a position to handle this. | ||
| But it was the workers at those companies, not the CEOs, who did I'm serious. | ||
| Does that ever make you stop short and say, huh, maybe they're trying to massively inoculate us on a vaccine that might not be as effective to try to pursue profit, not well-being? | ||
| Does that ever, like, enter into your kind of calculation? | ||
| It's a consideration you should take about anything produced by any company that's run for profit, which is everything, you know? | ||
| Basically, every need in American society needs. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Don't you think they're trying to sell us the vaccines? | |
| Well, everyone's trying to sell everything! | ||
| Uh, okay. | ||
| And you're pushing for a vaccine mandate. | ||
| - If you run down Main Street, or in my case, I guess, you know, the boulevards in Los Angeles, - Guy's such an asshole dude. - You're seeing the protracted efforts of a billion dollars - Oh my goodness, I'm sorry. | ||
| And there was probably a protracted effort on the part of these companies to make sure they were the first, and they probably took every dirty advantage they could give. | ||
| But with the data available, I have to still, much as I would say, hey, I would prefer eating McDonald's food to starvation, I have to say, this is probably still something we should be doing. | ||
| You want to do? | ||
| I don't want to stay. | ||
| It's been 20 minutes. | ||
| No, for sure. | ||
| Do you want to make a final point? | ||
| Maybe you would starve instead. | ||
| I actually think this has been really constructive and not like that, you know, inflammatory. | ||
| It's been constructive. | ||
| I think that deep down you have this kind of, you know, urge that I'm already there where maybe they want this thing to go on for another decade to go make another hundred billion dollars and maybe the cheap drug of hydroxychloroquine or ibuprofen I agree with you earlier. | ||
| We could change the topic. | ||
| That was a healthy discourse. | ||
| Can I meet in the middle on that one? | ||
| On that very last one? | ||
| I do not trust the pharmaceutical industry. | ||
| What a weakling. | ||
| What a weakling. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We just don't know and I just don't want to take it. | |
| This has been such a constructive discourse. | ||
| And I would, unironically, actually trust it more in the hands of an ineffective, bloated government than I would the sociopaths who run it currently. | ||
| He started off strong. | ||
| Always talk to your doctor. | ||
| This is one of the biggest things like YouTube is very strict on this especially, but I genuinely think Don't assume anyone here is right or wrong. | ||
| I mean there's I'm sure there are people who think Charlie's made a bunch of good points And you have, ultimately it's down between you and your doctor. | ||
| And I'll stress, you know, for whatever your opinion, Charlie, I understand. | ||
| Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin haven't been approved by the FDA. | ||
| Kirk is barely talking either. | ||
| He's asking questions whether it works or not. | ||
| So that's why I think it's really important because I think there are... He's not making arguments. | ||
| He's doing... In regards to Ivermectin, people have been eating horse paste that they sell. | ||
| I looked up what the FDA says about it. | ||
| They say, do not do this. | ||
| And they actually give a very good reason. | ||
| They say, although people It's terrible. | ||
| It's contagious. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Especially because... I think that you're gonna nail him! | |
| Hey, I'm gonna nail this question! | ||
|
unidentified
|
And Bosch just takes it and takes it where he wants to go with it. | |
| Well, of course. | ||
| Ivermectin is technically a drug for voices. | ||
| It's off-label use. | ||
| And instead of these, like, smug, like, hey, aren't you supposed to be the socialist? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| - I have a sign. - You've been to your hood, they're titans. - So let's talk about the other big topic, critical race theory. | ||
| That's the one that I had to tell you about. | ||
|
unidentified
|
There we go. | |
| This is interesting. | ||
| The other one was kind of lame. | ||
| This is, this is the good one. | ||
| And it was because I think my approach to it was too surface level. | ||
| And we'll see what Charlie Kirk says. | ||
| This'll be interesting. | ||
| Last time we had Vaush on, when you asked me about it, I couldn't give you a good answer. | ||
| And I think we can, we can talk about what's happening. | ||
| And I don't know if either of you has an opinion and wants to start off with, uh, Which is a highly esoteric, um, essentially Elective class that you can take in some law schools that teaches you a variety of incredibly eclectic legal theories that I, some of which I like and some of which I think I disagree with. | ||
| And then there's the critical race theory that people like Christopher Rufo have been trying to push, a sort of catch-all term to describe all anti-racism. | ||
| We see these anti-CRT bills being put through street legislators and a lot of them don't even mention critical race theory. | ||
| They mention stuff that's been boilerplate anti-racist theory for like two centuries. | ||
| That stuff really concerns me. | ||
| If I think that academia is to Enlightenment was his enemy. | ||
| Of course, all the good things in our society now were born in the same way if we're arrested. | ||
| These were things that were originally considered to be the crack of academics, and only through the respect of those ideas have we arrived at, well, what we have today. | ||
| So if there are problems with academia, I would have them solved in academia, not through the big hand of government reaching in and censoring everyone who says something that disagrees with some political party. | ||
| So a point of clarification, you don't believe that critical race theory is in schools? | ||
| I think that maybe there are ideas which overlap with critical race theory, but there's always going to be overlap between academic ideas. | ||
| I mean, you know, I drank water, so did Hitler. | ||
| one of those type situations. | ||
| The super academic way of defining critical race theory is not being taught to fourth graders, right? | ||
| With that being said, it's almost like saying, you know, we're not teaching advanced geometry to fourth graders, but we are teaching them very basic math, right? | ||
| We'll get them the Euclidean geometry. | ||
| So the very basics of this are definitely in schools. | ||
| And there's many examples of this, right? | ||
| The National Education Association literally came out in their press release and said that they are going to push for, and their word was Critical Race Theory, just so we're clear. | ||
| They used that term, right? | ||
| That's not Christopher Ruftho, that's not James Lindsay, who are good friends of mine, that's the National Education Association, right? | ||
| And I think they might even be talking about something different than the Delgado Theory. | ||
| We can talk about Critical Race Theory as an academic theory, Or we could use a filler term like wokeism, which is more like racial justice, which I actually think would probably be... Come on now. | ||
| We can call it racial justice and meet in the middle. | ||
| I mean, I really feel like there are probably four digit number of people in America who are studying actual critical race theory, not including myself, by the way. | ||
| And I'm not even prepared to do that. | ||
| But I'm happy to talk about racial justice education and wokeism, which I think is what the discourse is centered on. | ||
| Well, I think you guys actually agree, in essence, that the academic Critical race theory is there's overlap with a component and then someone will say cite one author of critical race theory that we've brought brought up in school. | ||
| And the issue is it's we refer to it as it's I believe it's called critical race praxis. | ||
| So this is something different than critical race theory. | ||
| It's being implemented in education. | ||
| But that's why you said wokeism. | ||
| And I just think that discussion is so unhelpful when Joy Reid and Christopher Rufo are screaming at each other and Joy Reid is saying like it's not being taught anywhere. | ||
| Christopher Rufo. | ||
| So, yes, it is. | ||
| When in reality, they're both right. | ||
| They're just talking about two completely different things. | ||
| No, I do. | ||
| And Christopher Rufo has admitted this is like a kind of tactic. | ||
| Critical race theory does sound spooky. | ||
| You know, I get a little shiver when I say- Kind of a moral panic that, in principle, I really disagree with. | ||
| But if you want to talk- I mean, we can call it wokeism if you want. | ||
| That's probably a more accurate term. | ||
| I will just say, to the point about Christopher Rufo, white supremacist is also used as a catch-all term in the other direction. | ||
| If we're talking, I mean, in academia the term white supremacist is virtually never used. | ||
| It's sort of a common parlance. | ||
| What I will say, though, about, to give credit to Christopher Ruffo, is that this is all kind of downstream from the conversation that Marcuse and Delgado started. | ||
| It really is. | ||
| Well, let's talk about it then. | ||
| But just one thing, though, since we're operating under the blanket wokeism, which is a really broad term, let's talk about, like, specific ideas. | ||
| Because I'm sure there are some of them that I can provide Yeah. | ||
| So like, how about like, black only dormitories? | ||
| - Generally not a fan. | ||
| I don't think they're like explicitly harmful in the same way that traditional segregation is, but I also think that it incentivizes bad types of socialization, where the way that you get a reprieve from the faults of society is to find comfort in people of your own race. | ||
| Maybe that incentivizes some bad stuff. | ||
| In my university, we had safe spaces, but you know what they were? | ||
| They were like, chilled, like, coffee break rooms behind, like, the... Where'd you go? | ||
| Latin. | ||
| I went to Humboldt State. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Right behind there. | ||
| And, like, anyone could go in there, whatever. | ||
| Just, the only thing that they asked was that you not be, like... This is a don't-be-an-asshole space! | ||
|
unidentified
|
This is actually really helpful. | |
| So, how about reparations for slavery? | ||
| I think I'm pretty in favor of that, yeah. | ||
| Okay, make the argument. | ||
| Unfortunately, the material reality for a lot of people who were slaves didn't change that much after they were emancipated. | ||
| I mean, if you were a slave and you're made free, that's a big step up, don't get me wrong, but you have nothing. | ||
| I mean, nothing. | ||
| And because of the way generational wealth transfers from father to son or mother to either to anyone to their children. | ||
| Yeah, caught me there. | ||
| Unfortunately, we still see the... Where were slaves kept? | ||
| Which were the plantation counties? | ||
| And you see, oh, this group of black like neighborhoods. | ||
| That's where they settled after slavery ended. | ||
| It's like really immediate stuff. | ||
| And it's a debt owed that this nation never paid. | ||
| I don't necessarily agree on reparations, but I think we need to clarify what that ultimately means. | ||
| I thought this was a debate about critical race theory. | ||
| Now it's a debate about why blacks are owed reparations. | ||
| Masterful debating from Charlie Kern. | ||
| It was a debate about anti-white education. | ||
| Now it's a debate about, here's why reparations are justified. | ||
| This is a very tactical move. | ||
| And now we're dealing with an ultimately, I believe, is a class issue. | ||
| Of course, racism still exists. | ||
| But anyway, I digress on that point. | ||
| What I wanted to get to is specifically on reparations. | ||
| What do you view reparations as, more importantly? | ||
| So, this is a big divide. | ||
| Some people think, like, cash payments. | ||
| I'm not a big fan of that. | ||
| It doesn't fix the problem, for one. | ||
| You can put money into that community, but there's been research done on how long a dollar stays in a black neighborhood as opposed to a white neighborhood. | ||
| And if a black neighborhood, all of the businesses are owned by, you know, corporate boards that are all majority white, eventually the money filters out and you get a very temporary ghosted living situation. | ||
| Not much long-term structural change. | ||
| I'm a big Not based on race, but rather based on targeting neighborhoods that need it the most. | ||
| I think that we should recognize that this is largely a racial project, because unfortunately poverty and race are really intertwined in this country. | ||
| But in terms of applying it, I think that it would be much more healthy if we treated it like a collective effort to bring up the lowest sort of echelon of our economic So I want to ask you, Charlie, would you agree with a program that was... in, in, in... How do I describe this? | ||
| Was not based on race, went to people based on class and neighborhood, so that it could help Latino... | ||
| ...and white people and Asians and everybody. | ||
| First of all, I'm against reparations. | ||
| I just don't like the word because it kind of implies this intergenerational guilt or allowance that I kind of reject. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Now this is populist nationalism. | |
| This is working. | ||
| What if we called the reparations but it was a new deal for the poor? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Steve Bannon salivating at his mouth about that. | |
| That's fascinating. | ||
| Oh! | ||
| There it is. | ||
| It's inherently racial. | ||
| I really want to explore that with you because I think that's interesting. | ||
| I think you're wrong, but I think that's interesting where I think the racial thing is actually being used to distract people like you and I from actually talking about. | ||
| And I think the racial thing is being used as this distraction tool to throw a smokescreen in the middle while we're talking about something that we're never really going to have consensus on. | ||
| When the true struggle right now is mainly economic. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's racial. | |
| It's a race war. | ||
| Well, I think that applying reparations along racial lines runs into a bunch of really tough issues. | ||
| Which neighborhoods? | ||
| Do you go by, like, blood? | ||
| Like, can you prove your great-great-grandfather was a slave? | ||
| It gets very difficult very quickly. | ||
| The argument is in principle not about how it's implemented in practice. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Maybe that would be the most direct interpretation, generational reparations. | |
| But in my mind, the reason why it's important to recognize the racial issue here is that the nature of class divides in this country is cut into racial policy prior to the Civil Rights There it is. | ||
| This is also, the debate is also- I don't know if Tim Paul is from Chicago. | ||
| led to very distinct, I mean, sometimes, you know, one side of the highway is nice. | ||
| 47th Street was split by race. | ||
| No joke. | ||
| This is longstanding effects on the city. | ||
| I didn't know Tim Pool was from Chicago. | ||
| Just to point out. | ||
| No, and I grew up in LA, and on either side of the five, which cut through the city, I mean, or the 405, sorry. | ||
| Let me just interject. | ||
| We were actually told that we would be arrested from the south side of 47th. | ||
| If we crossed 47th, we would get arrested because the cops would pull up and say, you don't live in this neighborhood. | ||
| What are you doing here? | ||
| I'm from the suburbs of Chicago. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I've heard stories like that. | |
| West Hollywood and Koreatown. | ||
| And the lines are clear. | ||
| They are clear in Chicago. | ||
| But that's because of racial conflict. | ||
| It was race riots all the time. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And they built highways and forest preserves. | |
| - It was race riots all the time. - We pretty much wiped that out. | ||
| With the exception of some, I guess, edge cases. | ||
| - And they built highways - The projects of systemic racism or the existence of systemic racism is something which is carried through - And they moved around the transit lines - Class by inertia. | ||
| It isn't something you can explicitly I mean, obviously, nobody's out there passing laws like, Black people can't do this. | ||
| That'd be silly. | ||
| But instead, the consequences of slavery and of second-class citizenship is something specific. | ||
| So the issue with that argument is that the more that we intervened in the black community, it actually had the opposite effect. | ||
| And Thomas Sowell probably has done the best research and literature on this. | ||
| You can laugh all you want. | ||
| He's got a lot of credentials. | ||
| No, I wasn't trying to besmirch you. | ||
| He's a very thoughtful thinker. | ||
| He actually lived through this, right? | ||
| He lived through the black renaissance in the 40s and the 50s, where redlining was a legitimate problem. | ||
| So was yellow lining, by the way, against Italians and against Jews. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Real. | |
| Battalions ran Chicago. | ||
| nearly as bad but there were other degrees of discrimination based on ethnicity but italians ran chicago and the black community especially you know the area really well in the south of chicago right near and they kind of collectivized their purchasing power and they saw their incomes increase actually at a higher rate than white americans in the 40s and 50s and early 60s | ||
| you've heard this argument many times and you probably you know disagree with it but it's just true is that the moment that we all of a sudden de-emphasized More like the moment that the Civil Rights Movement began. | ||
| How did they miss this? | ||
| After it's bad! | ||
| The cause? | ||
| More like the moment that civil rights... Right before the Civil Rights Act passed. | ||
| Civil rights movement began. | ||
| About 24% of black children... | ||
| How do they miss this? | ||
| ...were born without a father. | ||
| Now it's upwards of 70%. | ||
|
unidentified
|
After it's bad! | |
| So something has to explain that... | ||
| ...that 40-point increase. | ||
| May I? | ||
| Yeah, just let me finish. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, sure. | |
| Yeah, and it's just, it's not necessarily that America got more racist. | ||
| It could be the cocaine thing, which, you know, is a common issue. | ||
| It could be, you know, operations of all these things. | ||
| But a 40-point increase... Or it could be that they're different. | ||
| I would point to a culture of fatherlessness, really bad government-run public schools, and then subsidizing behavior that isn't good. | ||
| So, there are a few things that I can agree with you on. | ||
| First of all, having two people in your house to raise you is pretty much essential. | ||
| You absolutely need to. | ||
| I'm glad we agree. | ||
| A mother and a father, not two people. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I agree with that. | |
| In this economy, one parent, honestly. | ||
| The rate of black fatherlessness is somewhat over-exaggerated. | ||
| In large part because that number only applies to married fathers, so husbands raising their children. | ||
| It turns out when you account for unmarried black couples taking care of their kids, the numbers actually rise to those just, I think, just below white couples. | ||
| I think there was an article on that, I don't know if I remember, saw it in Vice, but it tracks back to some really big study that was done back in 2016. | ||
| So that's one point, but you are right. | ||
| Cut off with a shared income, which is only a few thousand dollars per year higher than the necessary cut off for the single income. | ||
| Meaning that if you're a single mom, you can apply for the welfare just fine. | ||
| But then if you get married or otherwise file jointly, you go above the cap for welfare. | ||
| This is a horribly designed program, undeniably, and it incentivizes bad, destructive behavior. | ||
| The best thing that we can do, we restructure the welfare system in this country. | ||
| Welfare is good for us, it is. | ||
| I don't benefit from it, I don't think either of you benefit from it, I'm guessing, but we do collectively downstream from the increased economic potential of people who now have the money, the mutual project. | ||
| So we work on that, we find out at what works and what doesn't which welfare programs function which don't which types of welfare doesn't revitalization function and which don't i legitimately believe that if we apply this this country has the bones to be a just a permanent economic beacon on the hill just like a shining example to the rest of the world i agree with a lot of that the bigger issue with the racial thing is that when you put some of these factors in even the present data it doesn't pan out on racial lines right | ||
| and And this is where I think you'll agree, because you just said two parents in the home is a good thing, which we totally agree on. | ||
| I think that's the ideal everything. | ||
| So that is something that we should, you know, pull. | ||
| Yeah, polyamorous relationships. | ||
| Not a fan. | ||
| But I will say that if you look at the data from the government, that a white child being raised by a single mother is less likely to succeed by 10 independently picked metrics than a black child being raised by a mother and a father. | ||
| And so maybe it's less about the skin color and more about the removal of parents and specifically fathers in the homes. | ||
| Now, if you want to talk about a domestic Marshall Plan to go put fathers back in the home regardless of skin color, I will sign up for that in a second. | ||
| With the right welfare, the right systems, I think people will tend to their own families. | ||
| But that would then all of a sudden clear family lines. | ||
| Well, no, I think that the neighborhood revitalization should just be on like a sort of class assessment. | ||
| I think that when we recognize this problem, though, there are so many trends when it comes to poverty that involve the discussion of race, you know? | ||
| And there are some which do not. | ||
| There are some types of poverty, some effects, that are just ubiquitous and equally felt. | ||
| But with regards to say, you know, black people, the fact that they couldn't get loans to purchase homes for a very long time. | ||
| I mean, there are people living who couldn't do this. | ||
| The fact that they didn't benefit from the Marshall Plan, if I remember correctly, after World War II. | ||
| The Marshall Plan was Europe. | ||
| You're talking about the G.I. | ||
| Bill. | ||
| Oh, sorry, the G.I. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Bill. | |
| My apologies. | ||
| Let me just point out all these white guys sitting here having a debate over the black community, huh? | ||
| I just think that there is a lot of economic We don't need to turn this into some weird blood quantum machine where we go tracking down every black American and holding them under a microscope to see whether they get benefits. | ||
| We just need to tend to our own. | ||
| This is where we kind of got off critical race theory very quickly. | ||
| I forgot about that. | ||
| We're agreeing way too much, Tim. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Because this is one of the issues I see. | |
| You see these conversations around... I don't know how you describe it, because it's a variety of things. | ||
| Wokeism is typically a catch-all term for some kind of ideology that involves anti-racism, which involves critical race theory, critical race praxis. | ||
| And you're seeing in schools specific curriculums where they say to kids, like, No. | ||
| So much of debate and rhetoric is about using your platform to advance your agenda and your message. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I take a Charlie Kirk is another book where the whole debate is real rain around her mother's I'm lying to me about race and then there was a white we're on the devil tail coming out of it okay as a guy accent these are in time yeah okay it's just like this devil tail thing a new deal liberalism It's like the Hillary Clinton agenda. | |
| And I'll be careful because I don't have the book in front of me. | ||
| It was something to this effect. | ||
| It was a bunch of questions where I would ask you things like that and then ask you to answer. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You know, what have you done to make someone who is in their skin color better with regards to what you're saying? | |
| Do you know what grade level? | ||
| I think she mentioned it was a fourth grade but I gotta be honest like the anti-racist one didn't have any pictures or anything was just questions and I think she mentioned it was in a third grade The, uh, what was it called? | ||
| What was the book called about the whiteness contract? | ||
| The one you said was indefensible. | ||
| That one was like a little girl who looked to be about eight years old, so. | ||
| Yeah, I saw that online. | ||
| Can I ask a question? | ||
| So let's go to just piece, you know. | ||
| Yeah, sure. | ||
| Issue by issue. | ||
| Ibram X. Kendi, who's kind of one of the, you know, archangels of the wokeism movement. | ||
| Beloved figure in the minds of conservatives and liberals alike. | ||
| So Ibram X. Kendi, and I'm paraphrasing, and you guys can pick up the quote, is that we need discrimination today because there is discrimination yesterday. | ||
| So I find that to be reprehensible. | ||
| What say you? | ||
| I think it's misguided in large part because I don't believe... If there was some God who could just distribute all resources in a perfectly ordained way and did so at the snap of a finger, then maybe that would be a decent argument. | ||
| In the real world, we have to go through politics, and any kind of discriminatory treatment under any circumstances, no matter how well-intentioned, is going to have adverse effects. | ||
| So, with regard to what he said, there is a very charitable interpretation. | ||
| Discriminatory practices in the past necessitate favorable practices. | ||
| He wrote an amendment, right, called the Anti-Racist Amendment to the Constitution. | ||
| in this country have always had it bad, at least worse than they could otherwise. | ||
| That is essentially a version of that argument. | ||
| Preferable treatment towards the poor. | ||
| We do this with welfare because there are systemic barriers keeping them from full participation. | ||
| Along racial lines, I don't even know what that would look like. | ||
| I don't even know how that could look good. | ||
| I'm not a big fan of affirmative action. | ||
| He wrote an amendment called the anti-racist amendment to the Constitution. | ||
| It's not being considered anytime soon. | ||
| Where it would be preference. | ||
| You'll see. | ||
| Biden will get it. | ||
| Based on skin color. | ||
| There is one thing I want to say, though. | ||
| This is common in upper academia. | ||
| I know Idrim sometimes gets brought into non-academic discussions, which I don't consider myself an academic, so I'm including myself in that. | ||
| But But sometimes I think these are fun to discuss, these ideas. | ||
| What I noticed, at least in some of the classes that I took, the higher-end classes, you know, was that sometimes when you were presented ideas, they were presented not to have you agree with them, but rather to incentivize the greatest discussion. | ||
| For example, I wasn't an economist, but I did learn about Karl Marx. | ||
| Now, not many professors are actual Marxists, unfortunately. | ||
| So when Marx was brought up in that context, it wasn't like, here's what you need to know, here's what you should believe. | ||
| It was more, here are some people, what do you think about them? | ||
| And when I look at what Kendi has written, I do enjoy the process. | ||
| Based Nick Fuentes or Debate Nick Fuentes or just my name. | ||
| But keep it going, keep it going strong. | ||
| That's a great, brutish response. | ||
| That's a great segue if I could go. | ||
| So the next question then is should we be teaching first and second and third graders to be hyper-conscious aware of race all the time? | ||
| I think that's destructive. | ||
| I think it goes against the American promise of E Pluribus Unum. | ||
| The problem isn't racialism, it's anti-white hatred. | ||
| Yes, Martin Luther King Jr. | ||
| was a mixed bag when he came to the government. | ||
| That's not what E Pluribus Unum means. | ||
| He's a cool guy. | ||
| He was a very radical socialist in some regard, but he really hit it perfectly when he said that this was race. | ||
| Well, I think depending on their environment. | ||
| They might already, whether they know it or not, in very implicit and subtle ways. | ||
| We know from tests done, for example, on, like, little, little kids, like four-year-olds or whatever, that some elements of implicit racial bias already infect their thinking. | ||
| Now, that isn't a moral judgment. | ||
| We're all flawed beings. | ||
| We live and we die. | ||
| Hey, look at that. | ||
| Look at all the Nick Fuentes. | ||
| Keep it going. | ||
| Keep it going. | ||
| But I think conversations about those things can be valuable. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't believe we live in a... Save your superchats for me, though. | |
| Save the superchats for me. | ||
| But keep going in the live chat. | ||
|
unidentified
|
For me? | |
| Very little to none. | ||
| To evident problems. | ||
| Now, to what extent would you be comfortable? | ||
| What would you would you like bringing a racial consciousness to third graders? | ||
| For me, very little to none as don't care about it, deemphasize it, looking that you should start to emphasize, organize what people look like, because therefore it means. | ||
| Tell you a great example is that this is the textbook definition of stereotyping, right? | ||
| Is that when, if you see a black person, you don't know their history. | ||
| You don't know if they're the son of a Nigerian billionaire. | ||
| You don't know if they're an immigrant from Turks and Caicos, and you don't know if they're the ninth. | ||
| I do the immigration process process since 1980. | ||
| So this sort of. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Of hyper fixation on race. | |
| And I want to keep on getting back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| Curious is, do you think this is actually helpful? | ||
| I think this actually might be a smokescreen tactic. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, it really depends on what people are being taught. | |
| So here are some things I obviously don't want taught. | ||
| One group is better than another. | ||
| Race has been salient for 400 years, for as long as you've been on this continent. | ||
| That is being taught in some schools. | ||
| There are some schools that do that, and while I would look to see their curriculum mended, I don't, again, I just don't want to implicitly agree with like a... ...about very basic early history, you know? | ||
| This is where I wanted to get to. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, okay. | |
| So, here are some things about America's founding that I like. | ||
| One of the first practical liberal democracies, Glory of the Republic. | ||
| Folks had nice hair back then. | ||
| Not democracy, but a republic. | ||
| Well, I mean, you know, they're not mutually exclusive. | ||
| And we, of course, did more to fulfill the promise of democracy with time. | ||
| But obviously, when America was founded, it was a slave state. | ||
| One in every six people in America at that time was human property. | ||
| Can I ask you a question? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| How many states had abolished slavery by the time the Constitution was ratified? | ||
| Well, I don't know the exact number. | ||
| Nine out of thirteen. | ||
| That's not a slave country. | ||
| I think that's better said. | ||
| 9 out of 13 had already abolished. | ||
| There was a sunset moratorium for slavery in the Constitution. | ||
| Vermont abolished slavery in 1777. | ||
| We were on the way to eradication. | ||
| We were not a slave country. | ||
| We were on the way, but then like 80 years later it was still happening. | ||
| So the question is why, right? | ||
| That's a really important question. | ||
| Well, yeah, so Cottingen and John C. Calhoun. | ||
| Happy to go through that. | ||
| There was actually a grievance in the Declaration of Independence, specifically that the Crown had enslaved people. | ||
| The first draft. | ||
| Yeah, in the first draft from Thomas Jefferson. | ||
| The Crown had enslaved people who had done nothing to offend the Crown or against the colonists who had grievances. | ||
| The Union did it too. | ||
| They promised the slaves and they moved southward. | ||
| Jefferson took that out. | ||
| And he did it because they felt, and this is according to historians, that without, I think it was South Carolina and Georgia, they would not have been able to win the Revolutionary War. | ||
| And so they had to remove that, hoping they would stay in. | ||
| Now, the reality is, let me just, I'll just say one more point. | ||
| They thought they were going to lose anyway. | ||
| They really did. | ||
| They didn't think they could go up against the greatest empire in the world at the time. | ||
| So it's kind of unfortunate, I think. | ||
| An important factor here is that I believe it was the British Empire, actually 1833, had abolished slavery in all of its territories. | ||
| And it took the U.S. | ||
| a little bit longer to become contentious and ultimately led to violence because from the beginning, beginning, as Charlie pointed out, most of the states had already abolished this, so it was like people were ready to fight from the beginning. | ||
| Well, I just want to say to that, my understanding of the founding of America isn't as simplistic as the founding fathers were evil because X or Y. | ||
| I recognize, of course, that there are incredible complexities to those issues. | ||
| We'll never miss an opportunity to uplift the economy. | ||
| Also, I'm not a historian. | ||
| There are probably tons of things out there I don't even know that might change my opinion in the future. | ||
| But with that being said, while I recognize there were fine-bodied, hearted, and sold Americans who recognized slavery was a moral aberration from the get-go, one in every six Americans was owned. | ||
| And while there were While that may have been constrained to some of the states, it was still ultimately under the purpose of this conversation. | ||
| I'm not saying you guys, but some people, they do. | ||
| And I think it's because they think I'm assigning some kind of moral worth to them now or to the country now or making some kind of broad prescriptive statement. | ||
| I'm not. | ||
| The only thing I'm saying is, when you're teaching history to a bunch of kids, you know, you have to teach it all. | ||
| At least you have to teach the basic pointers. | ||
| And for black Americans, the history of this country has been less than favorable. | ||
| So I think that in the context of that discussion, saying, and to this day, we still have some problems with race. | ||
| There are some legacies of slavery, racialization that I'm in favor of, because it doesn't encourage stereo It doesn't encourage discrimination. | ||
| It just encourages a base awareness of some serious problems. | ||
| So, but that's not happening, right? | ||
| Is that largely what we're seeing through school districts like Chicago and in Washington DC and the entire California school system representing 10,000 schools and 6 million students. | ||
| I've seen the documents on this. | ||
| Yeah, is that it doesn't have that kind of nuance and complexity that you just presented, right? | ||
| Where it's, let me just say this, is that part of the kind of archangel triumphant of the woke-ism coalition is Nicole Hannah-Jones, Robin D'Angelo, and Ibram X. Kendi. | ||
| And Nicole Hannah-Jones in particular, right, the author of the 1619 Project, She heretically says that America was founded on slavery. | ||
| But it's just not true. | ||
| She defines this. | ||
| She says the Founding Fathers were in favor of it. | ||
| Not true. | ||
| George Washington wasn't. | ||
| John Adams wasn't. | ||
| John Quincy Adams wasn't. | ||
| Thomas Jefferson even signed a moratorium on new slaves coming into the United States. | ||
| Ben Franklin chaired an anti-slavery convention in 1775. | ||
| None of these guys were writing expositionally how wonderful slavery is. | ||
| Well, this isn't being taught to third graders, right? | ||
| The 1619 Project's a little New York op-ed. | ||
| No, no, no, it's not. | ||
| See, that's where you're wrong. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| It's not just like a podcast. | ||
| This is curriculum. | ||
| There are principles of the 1619 Project that I think are defensible. | ||
| First of all, we, as Americans, tend to think of the founding of our country as its legal founding, you know? | ||
| But the legal founding of the United States didn't really mean much for a slave. | ||
| I mean, it really didn't matter that much for the peasantry of the time, no matter what. | ||
| See, that's where I disagree. | ||
| So, when was the first state to abolish slavery? | ||
| Vermont in 1777. | ||
| Why? | ||
| Because they were inspired by the Declaration of Independence. | ||
| Things started to change in that year. | ||
| Right, but the slaves that then continued to be slaves. | ||
| Sorry, I didn't mean to miss out on the particulars there. | ||
| The only point that I'm making is that depending on whose lineage you follow, depending on the narrative that you tell, this is a very postmodern idea. | ||
| Which I think we all believe to some extent. | ||
| Depending on who you follow, you get very different ideas on what America is, when America was founded, not in a legal sense, but in a conceptual sense. | ||
| And who today holds the birthrights to which they're entitled. | ||
| And these conversations should be had. | ||
| They're worthwhile conversations to have. | ||
| I've seen some of the curriculums in these schools. | ||
| I find some of them a little bit objectionable. | ||
| But to be perfectly clear, I've found school curriculums objectionable for ages. | ||
| About half of Americans believe in the lost cause myth, the idea that the North There is some truth to that, by the way. | ||
| Just so we're clear. | ||
| I'm happy to go through Civil War history. | ||
| How could you miss the bigger picture so far? | ||
| There is some truth to that, by the way, just so we're clear. | ||
| I'm happy to go through Civil War history. | ||
| I just want to say I have long had problems with many of the ways children are taught concepts in this country. | ||
| That's fair. | ||
| None of them have made me want to get my state legislators to just outright ban all of these ideas. | ||
| Well, so let me – we're on the left. | ||
| We're on their side of the board if we're debating about, you know, slavery and redlining and Jim Crow and reparations. | ||
| Conservatives are doomed. | ||
| September. | ||
| We've got Education Next. | ||
| The 1619 Project enters classrooms. | ||
| We have the Pulitzer Center. | ||
| The 1619 Project curriculum. | ||
| Here you will find resources. | ||
| Then we move to the... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Do they read the full thing in class? | |
| It's pretty dense reading, isn't it? | ||
| It's not forward thinking. | ||
| It is. | ||
| And lawmakers pushed to ban 1619 from schools. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So it's not a 1619 project. | |
| Is that, first of all, it's just not true. | ||
| It is not even charitable. | ||
| in the most charitable reading, to use a word that you used, even remotely fair to the ethos or the founding of the country. | ||
| It doesn't go to original source documents. | ||
| It doesn't go to quotations. | ||
| And a very heavy emphasis on emotion. | ||
| Can I ask something, though, real quick? | ||
| Sure, go ahead. | ||
| Is this not being presented as opposed to replacing the entirety of our curriculum? | ||
| No, it is, and this is an important thing, which is what is education, right? | ||
| So is education where we're supposed to, for third, fourth, and fifth, and sixth graders, open up every single bad idea that's ever been discovered and have kids choose, or are we trying to lead them towards something, lead them towards having better developed character, lead them towards trying to find objective truth? | ||
| Moral. | ||
| We want to make them moral. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| And so the question is, what is good? | ||
| What is evil? | ||
| Well, we don't know a line is crooked unless we have a straight line to compare it to. | ||
| Well, you know what I think on this, don't you? | ||
| I actually don't. | ||
| The narrative we've told about the founding of this country has for a long time been deeply whitewashed. | ||
| We talk about the founding fathers like they're heroes. | ||
| We've done, for example, that we would use as an incentive to forever despise other countries that nobody's even thought about. | ||
| One I read recently, for example, was that we did mass chemical bathings, and I believe it was sterilizations of Hispanic people at the beginning of the 20th century, moving up past the southern border, because there were like these militias forming in towns near the border. | ||
| And they just did it because they had the de facto support of the local government as a way of discouraging their movement up now the numbers involved in that are significant and i feel like well that's maybe not great great for fourth graders there could be more work done to talk about right is | ||
| is the goal to try to have young people graduate high school to be skeptical apprehensive and not very proud of the country or eventually tell a true and patriotic story where you have people graduating that are thankful and have gratitude. | ||
| That's the purpose of education when it comes through... Gratitude is not the purpose of education. | ||
| Well, I think gratitude's a moral necessity. | ||
| No. | ||
| You should be grateful for the people in your life, but I will never be grateful to the state. | ||
| I'm not that much of a collectivist. | ||
| Are you not thankful that you live in America? | ||
| I'm thankful of the things No, I'm not. | ||
|
unidentified
|
True. | |
| True. | ||
| I'm not white to fool you of constitutional rights that are protected by government you by God but do you know how how those constitutional rights came about they were fought for by one did in the Constitution they were fought for by whiny same as the 14th and 15th amendments everything that's come since we fought for them and it is discontentedness are you thinking Are you thankful for those people? | ||
| I'm thankful for their efforts. | ||
| As am I. There is some gratitude. | ||
| Sure, I'm grateful to them. | ||
| But patriotism, I'm grateful to what people in America do. | ||
| But America is a concept. | ||
| It's been used to do a lot of good and a lot of harm. | ||
| Oh no, it's a home. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, a home can be a family. | |
| And I'm loyal to them. | ||
| When it comes to this country, this country live the best lives possible. | ||
| Also outside the country. | ||
| But, you know, I live here. | ||
| This is my backyard. | ||
| And when I want people graduating, you know, from high school, I don't want them to feel this sense of contentedness. | ||
| Contentedness is the death of activism for all that's good. | ||
| And activists have always been, you're an activist in your own way, as am I, have always been the forerunners for good. | ||
| They've done a lot of damage too. | ||
| Sure, they have. | ||
| But we make the world move. | ||
| And I want to get people, I want to get kids, interested in the A great piece of disagreement. | ||
| We have clarity, not agreement. | ||
| What we want, where I think that we should try to be developing and graduating kids with strong character that want to appreciate and protect a country and to try to be active against forces that wish to deconstruct it. | ||
| Your goal, and we're just not going to persuade each other, is that you want to try to graduate activists that know the flaws and are willing to mobilize to try to fix them or to undo whatever system might be effectuating. | ||
| Is that fair? | ||
| As long as it's responsible and effective, yeah. | ||
| There are ways to do progressive, of course I'm a progressive so I'll say it's good by default, but there are ways to do it poorly. | ||
| I disagree with people who love constantly either over issues of actual concepts or issues of optics. | ||
| I have to wonder, is it not the prerogative, and I'm not assigning this to you, of tyrants to make sure that it's children who graduate He doesn't even believe in this country. | ||
| in the nations there could be thankful for something and you can have a holistic view of something understand that there were stumbles and there were missteps while also being pretty freaking proud of that something how no no what if there are current problems like today you know we should we should talk about those like we already talked about fatherlessness um it's it's it's it's When we learn history, what we're really learning is a story. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No! | |
| - It was defurred our time. | ||
| - Blackwell Street or the Tulsa bombings and things like that. | ||
| And that's proof or that shows that our schools are not teaching and I was like, - He doesn't wanna talk. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Pass off the tin, pass off the posh. | |
| - We were taught about the Trail of Tears. | ||
| We were taught about westward expansion. | ||
| We were taught about the violation of treaties. | ||
| - I was taught a lot as well. | ||
| - Yeah, we were taught a lot about that. - When we learn history, what we're really learning is a story. | ||
| I think it's called historiography. | ||
| Obviously, when we're just looking at the facts of history, I mean, what is it? | ||
| Data and sheets, you know? | ||
| Wrote transcriptions of things people have said? | ||
| Nobody teaches that. | ||
| You teach the story. | ||
| And the story we've told for a long time has bowled over a lot of problems, I think. | ||
| We should work to fix. | ||
| Do we want people to be thankful? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| I don't want to see things they should be thankful for. | ||
| For example, every day that I worked before I was a YouTuber, you know, I thanked union activists back during the turn of the 20th century who gave us the five-day work week, the 40-hour work week, who ensured that we had proper standards for lunch breaks and what have you in this, and they fought and they were But we all benefited from that. | ||
| Is there ever a point where the activism actually does much more harm than the preservation of what already exists actually should be desirable? | ||
| I would say that's the case with black separatists. | ||
| The racial problems between white and black Americans are irreparable, and that the best solution would be for black Americans to leave, or at the very least to form separate enclaves within this country. | ||
| And that's nothing new, just so you know. | ||
| It's very old. | ||
| I don't think that's what Charlie asked. | ||
| He asked you if there... Do you want to rephrase? | ||
| Oh, sorry if I misunderstood. | ||
| You were in the general area, but I guess the question is, a heavy emphasis on activism, for activism's sakes, mobilizing for grievances. | ||
| What if A constitutional order is actually pretty awesome. | ||
| Let me ask you. | ||
| Do you think there are systems in place in the United States that are worth defending? | ||
| That's a better way to word it. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Do you believe that there are systems in place in the United States that we should defend and preserve? | ||
| Yeah, for sure. | ||
| I mean, there are ideas. | ||
| For example, the concept of democracy, the concept of fair representation, the idea that anybody could have a chance if they make it here. | ||
| These are ideas that I think are almost sacrosanct. | ||
| I mean, I think they're almost existentially worthwhile. | ||
| Now, to what extent did this country live up to those promises? | ||
| In some ways, it does so better than most other countries. | ||
| Sometimes any other country. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Gosh, if you were to, like, do high-speed scrubbing, And what percentage of it would be Vosch? | |
| Wait, what? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, whoops! | |
| Hang on. | ||
| I'm just trying to illustrate. | ||
| be vosh than it is here the idea remains valuable to me but i can't help but think maybe we could make it better wait what no whoops correct hang on a destructive i'm just trying to illustrate if you scrub through it's all it's literally all vosh benefit right so what i'm trying to caution you about is that the people pushing crt and look at the whole debate they don't have the same sort of nuance that you do These are revolutionaries that want to tear down the system. | ||
| But I am as well. | ||
| I just think that everything has its time. | ||
| You just had kind of a little bit more of a moderate answer. | ||
| But how often do actual critical race theorists come on like all of the like talk show circuits that end up I mean we've had some I mean it's military they're running away they're right there there is sign I'm not a big fan of her largely because I think her language incites a lot of negative discourse. | ||
| I think that it's bad for publication. | ||
| Maybe good in an academic setting. | ||
| So not good to teach generals that? | ||
| For some random people at like a business? | ||
| Absolutely not, no. | ||
| Generals in the military. | ||
| Oh yeah, sure, no. | ||
| He's banning Nick Flint's problem in chat. | ||
| But keep in mind, that's not wokeists running these things. | ||
| What happens is this, and put pretty simply, the majority of Americans, broadly, are progressive on these issues. | ||
| Support BLM the all these sort of broad cultural markers appeal to the business interests of this country. | ||
| We need to do something to encourage It's not about ingratiation. | ||
| They manufacture the majority opinion! | ||
| They run the media! | ||
| The public opinion is created, it's catalyzed, it's manufactured. | ||
| They're sure the majority of the media. | ||
| They pay them $300,000 like Robin D'Angelo. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The public opinion is created, it's catalyzed as manufacturer. | |
| They're not reacting to public opinion. | ||
| So is she going to come over there and write like a copy? | ||
| They're creating public opinion. | ||
| Don't be racist. | ||
| Come on. | ||
| Be cool. | ||
| No, she has to go all out. | ||
| And what you get are these cringy, like the Coca-Cola PowerPoint. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Where you get, look, some of the things there are defensible. | ||
| Does systemic racism exist? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Should we be aware of the concept of, like, implicit bias? | ||
| Yeah, fine. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's fine. | |
| I love when people- White people to feel a little bit bad. | ||
| And I don't want white people to feel bad. | ||
| I don't want anyone to feel guilty over who they are. | ||
| What percentage of this country do you think supports Black Lives Matter? | ||
| That's more based than anything Charlie Kirk has said. | ||
| Well, I know that it's peak after George Floyd's murder. | ||
| It was something like 71%. | ||
| Well, it depends on where you go. | ||
| I use Civics. | ||
| I use Civics. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, wow. | |
| They have 237,458 responses from April 1st, 2018 to August 2nd, 2021. | ||
| I think they do a pretty good job, but there's always, I know, a challenge after the death of George Floyd. | ||
| And opposition actually declined fairly steadily. | ||
| There was no major spike in opposition. | ||
| There was a major spike in support after the death of George Floyd. | ||
| However, there was a rapid escalation of opposition. | ||
| According to Civics, current support for Black Lives Matter is 45% and opposition is 42%. | ||
| Those numbers are really different for us. | ||
| I might have looked at Pew Research. | ||
| I couldn't tell about the methodology. | ||
| Well, and it's actually so innocent the filler word totally not very unpopular So I would look at it differently. | ||
| I think these corporations have been infiltrated by highly motivated activists Which you've said the education system the goal should be to create activists that have really bad idea ideas and And I think they're putting America on a trajectory that I think you are even concerned about. | ||
| Because you said that there are some sacrosanct ideas. | ||
| He's not. | ||
| He's one of them. | ||
| The sacrosanct ideas are general fair representation. | ||
| Wokeism does not believe in that. | ||
| Well, no, that's not true. | ||
| I would say... I mean, I don't know what you mean by wokeism, but I think that there are plenty of progressives... Well, you've defined it, which is that idea of judging people based on skin color, discrimination, now... I would say that what I've advocated for represents the super majority of progressive opinions, and what we're largely seeing is a couple of really bad examples being brought to the limelight because they're most objectionable. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| To be fair, though, I mean, you might have these very, very, like, well thought out views of things. | ||
| You could say, oh, that's indefensible. | ||
| Of course, I don't want to be unreasonable. | ||
| But when you get Mark Milley coming out and talking about white rage. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, I thought his speech was lovely. | |
| It reminded me of those old Chinese philosopher generals. | ||
| Because they've been discriminated against on racial lines they don't like. | ||
| One guy I met said he was planning a lifelong career in the military and immediately got out because they implemented these policies of white racial trainings. | ||
| They were told that the symbols of America are no longer allowed to be displayed in private because they're extremists. | ||
| In the military? | ||
| In the military, yes. | ||
| Well, I can't speak to any of that. | ||
| I haven't looked into the particulars of that. | ||
| This is straight up boring. | ||
| This isn't Bloodsport. | ||
|
unidentified
|
- Straight up boring. | |
| - This is a blood sport. | ||
|
unidentified
|
- It's between Dave Ruben and Hillary Clinton. | |
| - Some broader political, social, cultural trend happening, and they think, who's someone we could get? | ||
| And if you look up racial sensitivity training on Google or anywhere else, some names are going to pop up and we know which one comes up first and they just hire that person because they've got money and they need to spend it before the end of the quarter so their budget doesn't get cut. | ||
| Do you think that it should be How's the right way to phrase this? | ||
| If a corporation were to tell, say, white employees that they had inherent characteristics based on their race or that they should undergo some kind of course or class based on... You mean legally or like morally? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Both. | |
| I suppose legally if they want to. | ||
| I can understand people being upset over it. | ||
| I don't think there's anything wrong with racial If it's a good course, everyone should be able to hear it. | ||
| Wouldn't that violate the Civil Rights Act, though? | ||
| It might. | ||
| I guess I would defer entirely to him. | ||
| If it turns out to be unconstitutional, then he at it. | ||
| I just want to say, though, that while we are fixating on bad behaviors here, and there's nothing wrong with that, would agree with what I have to say. | ||
| Though, keep in mind... | ||
| There are always going to be a mix of good and bad ideas with good social movements. | ||
| Even the Civil Rights Act, or the Civil Rights Movement, which we all know and love today, you know? | ||
| No. | ||
| There were plenty of people acting there whose ideas I disagreed with. | ||
| Malcolm X, when he had his black separatist phase, though he amended that before he died. | ||
| There are even ideas of Martin Luther King's that I maybe could question if I spoke with him. | ||
| He wrote a book after the Civil Rights Act. | ||
| Where do we go from here? | ||
| Chaos or something. | ||
| Chaos or something good. | ||
| And he said a lot of stuff about the responsibility for white people to not make a mess. | ||
| Integrate. | ||
| We truly assimilate. | ||
| We know. | ||
| We're a collective bond. | ||
| There's always going to be some disagreement. | ||
| Is the movement valid? | ||
| To me, a movement which recognizes the racial discrimination, the systemic racism that exists, that there are problems we have yet to overcome. | ||
| This is a movement worth defending. | ||
| I just want to make some data points real quick and then Charlie you can come in. | ||
| Man. | ||
| So first, the one thing I wanted to highlight, let me actually pull this up, is that net support, which is support versus opposition, before George Floyd died for Black Lives Matter in this country was 16% net support. | ||
| As of today, according to Civics, it's 3%. | ||
| That brings it all the way back to 2018, to August 16th. | ||
| I don't know why this is relevant. | ||
| Now, one of the things I think is really important to note is that the severe tribalism and hyperpolarization... And by the way, Vaush, of course, is far more extreme than he's presented himself throughout the debate. | ||
| Everything that he says is so caramel. | ||
| Opposition for black guys more among Republicans. | ||
| 86% opposition. | ||
| And ambiguous. | ||
| You take a look at independency. | ||
| More alike than we may think, huh? | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| You take a look at the independents, though, people who don't align, and I would say, what is the date around? | ||
| Around May 1st, there was an inversion, and now the majority of independents oppose Black Lives Matter 44% to 39%. | ||
| That's not surprising to me, given that there's been very little in the way of optical... I'm sorry, you haven't spoken in a while, I apologize. | ||
| No, I'm... I just wanted to make those data points. | ||
| Gives it to Charlie! | ||
|
unidentified
|
Charlie gives it right back! | |
| I'm beating you so badly, I'll give you a turn. | ||
| No, no, I'm not even playing. | ||
| But I'll pass it back to you anyway. | ||
| People in law schools have been saying it. | ||
| Kim Fox in Chicago has heavily implied that communities of color need to be accommodated for in sentencing. | ||
| And they've all but done this by just getting rid of the bail laws that we've seen altogether, right? | ||
| Decriminalizing, shoplifting, all that. | ||
| Please. | ||
| Oh, I'm totally okay with that. | ||
| We lock way too many people up. | ||
| Just flat out. | ||
| So, like, murder out the next day? | ||
| No, not murder. | ||
| You said shoplifting. | ||
| Well, I'm just saying. | ||
| - And then Hannah Wright, and then now it's him full. | ||
| - Tough one for me. | ||
| I agree. | ||
|
unidentified
|
- It's not even a debate. | |
| He's right. | ||
| It's not even a discussion. | ||
| It's a monologue. | ||
| This is horrible. | ||
| a working class individual who is accused of shoplifting. | ||
| This is horrible. | ||
| I don't even want to watch this anymore. | ||
| Lock him up for several months, he loses his job. | ||
| However, what do we see in San Francisco? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| Wave of shoplifting, businesses shutting down because when you don't stop the crime, Charlie Kirk just doesn't want to debate. | ||
| He doesn't want to argue. | ||
| He doesn't use his time to say anything. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He gets the floor, asks a question, or hands it off. | |
| Look, like that! | ||
| These snide little remarks or questions. | ||
| He can't argue because... | ||
|
unidentified
|
So he doesn't know what to say. | |
| Not anymore. | ||
| You'd be surprised, man. | ||
| - That's pretty much different for Vosh. - They only really fully express themselves in the types of neighborhoods that have a really strong mix of wealthy and poor. | ||
| I can see that because again, from where I grew up, I lived on the border of a lot of low income communities. | ||
| Now Beverly Hills, safest place you could be. | ||
| 3:00 AM, you want to take a jog, go for it. | ||
| Seriously. | ||
| - Not anymore. | ||
| - Maybe, oh, I haven't been there in like five years. - You'd be surprised, man. - I'll say this. | ||
| - Good luck walking Rodeo Drive now. | ||
| - Well, okay, Hurston, I don't want to walk Rodeo Drive during the daylight, okay. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| After Garcon has had his work in L.A. | ||
| Why is he talking like that? | ||
| You're a participant! | ||
| He's on the sidelines making these little quips. | ||
| That's not true. | ||
| Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, they've all cut police. | ||
| Two hundred and sixty departments, I think it was reported last year, had stripped their funding from the police. | ||
| Sorry, when you said defund, I thought I meant like the interest. | ||
| He can't get his momentum up. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He makes a little remark and then it's just like, okay, let's let Vaj neutralize that or Tim Vaj. | |
| But the crime increase seems to be all countrywide. | ||
| So I don't know if I'd be leaning more towards that being a COVID thing and people being restless and angry. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Aggressive. | ||
| The thing that I'm trying to say, though, is when I grew up in Beverly Hills. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really, really safe. | |
| Free from violent crime. | ||
| I could walk half a mile, though, and the area between rich and poor were the areas where people had barred windows. | ||
| Every. | ||
| Time. | ||
| So, when it comes to criminality, there are things that we can address, very fundamentally, that will help everyone. | ||
| I'm sure there are restructures to bail laws that we could do. | ||
| I don't know the particulars. | ||
| It's not my field. | ||
| I've also read stuff... I'm sure we could do that, but I don't know. | ||
| Apparently murder actually has a very low default recidivist rate, because usually it's done under a very specific set of heated conditions that don't actually speak to a person's character, which makes you wonder a lot about like moral worth and what really drives a person to do that sort of thing. | ||
| I think it's something we should look at critically, though I don't have any really strong database documents. | ||
| The last thing I want to say, because we should aggressively look at the ways our sentencing laws affect and discriminate between black and white people and Hispanic and Asian. | ||
| I think we should do the same between men and women. | ||
| Because as much as black people are shafted by the criminal justice system, men are even more. | ||
| If you take a look at the disproportionate rates of sentencing, relative levels of implicit bias in the jury, women get off with way more than men do. | ||
| Bosch MRA confirmed. | ||
| Way more. | ||
| So, I mean... | ||
| Maybe it's something we can all agree on. | ||
| We're guys. | ||
| The issue, though, is that when you remove race, it's just a matter of income or wealth. | ||
| For example, if LeBron James... But O.J. | ||
| Simpson had an all-star team. | ||
| And so the problem is that... Obama. | ||
| He would also have good lawyers. | ||
| OJ Simpson? | ||
| You didn't have Obama as a lawyer, did you? | ||
| Kardashian and Dershowitz. | ||
| I would just like to interject that Obama extrajudicially assassinated people and nobody did anything about it. | ||
| That's a joke. | ||
| But I think that there's an implication in your argument that I want to challenge, which is that just because you're poor doesn't mean you commit crimes. | ||
| I think that's an insult to poor people. | ||
| That's an insult to poor people. | ||
| I think that if you automatically assume that – now, there are data trends to suggest that. | ||
| But instead, it should be the question of what are we trying to structurally do? | ||
| Either punish the people that are committing crimes and lift people out of that current levels. | ||
| So I think it's a good talking point, but I don't think it's totally true to say we have too many of them. | ||
| Let me tell you why. | ||
| The average rapist serves four years in prison, and they're very likely to rape again. | ||
| Hey, look, if you want funding that goes to police departments to go towards actually looking at the rape kits that they take, rather than stuffing them into a bin... Well, over 250,000 untested rape kits in the tri-state area in New York City. | ||
| 250,000, right? | ||
| So, our criminal justice system, you could say it had nefarious intentions. | ||
| I'll be neutral on that. | ||
| It was very heavy on drugs, obviously, in the 80s and 90s. | ||
| Generally though, you cited the number. | ||
| You said violent. | ||
| Massive campaign against it, and we had the most peaceful decade in American history. | ||
| Well, there were a few factors. | ||
| The viability of broken windows policing is... | ||
| ...challenged substantially, but there are admittedly some benefits. | ||
| The argument that I would make is that what you're really doing is you're forestalling the problem. | ||
| There are socioeconomic conditions that increase criminality, not because it makes people worse people, but just because oftentimes crime isn't some direct indicator of poor moral conduct. | ||
| Oftentimes it is a crime of necessity, or it is a crime born of... | ||
| Welfare state that we have. | ||
| What would possibly be a crime of necessity? | ||
| I know for, I can at least speak to personal experience, that I knew some people involved, like they said they would sometimes peddle drugs, and they did it because while they may have been accounted for by the welfare state, their parents' medical bills weren't. | ||
| Not sufficiently, not even close. | ||
| Stuff like that. | ||
| People are getting carjacked in the city of Chicago to pay for their mama medical bills, really? | ||
| It's not happening. | ||
| I've got to push back on that. | ||
| I mean, for sure it's anecdotal, but... It is, so it's not like a data point. | ||
| I never understood this, having grown up on the South Side. | ||
| Seeing people sell drugs is not the fastest... $140 per hour playing guitar in front of a baseball field. | ||
| I understand not everyone can play guitar. | ||
| Or skateboard. | ||
| Or skateboard. | ||
| He said he just bought t-shirts. | ||
| He went and bought both t-shirts. | ||
| So, the people who are selling drugs, they gotta buy the drugs first. | ||
| Or they get a loan. | ||
| Well, hold on. | ||
| It is always a choice, but what we're really talking about is the limits of determinism here. | ||
| How much do we choose the things we do? | ||
| You can make an argument that it's all... I mean, you're religious, of course, so you wouldn't have this argument, but... I wouldn't have anything close to this argument. | ||
| Right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| From a secular perspective, you can make the argument that at the end of the day, the things we do are driven entirely by the chemical reactions in our brain. | ||
| And therefore, everything that we do from start to finish is just a combination of practice. | ||
| But in practice, we are also the product of our environment. | ||
| And the fact that, for example, having a single parent while growing up is a pretty strong criminal indicator is a suggestion that, I mean, is it an indicator of a person's inherent moral worth? | ||
| that they were born with a single parent. | ||
| Probably not. | ||
| So that statistical difference has to be accounted for by the inevitable fact that environmental differences can lead to harsh outcomes. | ||
| The question is, though, do you then create a set of lack of enforcement to say that we're actually not going to enforce looting, where you had An entire article in National Public Radio, not saying you believe this, that says the case for looting, right? | ||
| San Francisco's basically not going to prosecute you, right? | ||
| Videos of them stealing entire Walgreens, right? | ||
| Not an exaggeration. | ||
| And then you have, and just one other day, we had a massive defund police, almost kind of, we're going to be relaxed on criminality type movement. | ||
| And this is the question, right? | ||
| Which is how many excuses or What excuses or accommodations are we going to give for crime? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, we're not going to give excuses to none. | |
| Crime is a necessity. | ||
| I could think of one, maybe two examples where I would make a moral claim of a crime of necessity, and that would be a revenge crime if someone murdered your wife or your kid. | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| Necessity? | ||
| I'm not saying necessity. | ||
| It came from, not necessity. | ||
| Let me rephrase that. | ||
| But the idea that in the welfare state that we have... | ||
| With the private philanthropy kind of generosity we have, that shop that we should just say, you know, it's actually because of the environment. | ||
| I don't know why you pointed at me when you said that. | ||
| I have never mugged Barbara Boxer. | ||
| As an example, was that you in San Francisco? | ||
| Where were you? | ||
| No, I've gotten stolen from in San Francisco before. | ||
| It was a very fun experience. | ||
| That was back before YouTube too, so I couldn't afford to replace anything. | ||
| Okay, a lot to respond to here. | ||
| Emile Durkheim cool guy and it's all fine was sociologically useful because it shows you where the antagonist Isms are between people's once and the state's desires so Whatever the cause of crime desires and what? | ||
| The state will allow you to do so for example Record murders. | ||
| Murders! | ||
| Not stealing, but murders. | ||
| Carjackings. | ||
| And the debate is being framed as crimes of necessity? | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's shoplifting because people are poor? | |
| - It's like record murders. | ||
| - Quite a few groups of theft during that time. | ||
| - Murders, not stealing, but murders. | ||
| - Because people need to do anything for it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
- Carjackings. | |
| - So the crime of theft in that instance - And the debate is being framed as - It's a sociological indicator of social need that isn't being met. | ||
| - Crimes of necessity, it's shoplifting because people are poor, - Now today, of course, we do have admittedly a fairly big, but existing - It's a debate about moral determinism. | ||
|
unidentified
|
- We do have very... - What is the point of it? | |
| - We will say, you said earlier, what are we doing? | ||
| I thought this was supposed to be a right and left debate on critical race theory. | ||
| People got cash checks, we have UBI. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But Charlie Kirk doesn't live in a right wing world. | |
| He's living in the world of the liberal mainstream. | ||
| We need to reject the spurious checks, people commit crimes. | ||
| Hold on, this is a spurious correlation. | ||
| First of all, you will not be able to find Any analysis that attributes the increase in crime to people getting their stimulus checks? | ||
| No, actually, I'm saying it's the opposite. | ||
| The argument you're making is that if people have a sociological need, they won't commit the crime. | ||
| So people got money and they still commit any money from their jobs because they couldn't work their jobs. | ||
| So people were still in a worse Unemployment, remember, very generous unemployment. | ||
| The unemployment started pretty generous. | ||
| Plus $600 to $800, right? | ||
| I think it was a week or a month, right? | ||
| It was very generous. | ||
| It's still currently at $300. | ||
| And not everyone is applicable for unemployment. | ||
| There are a lot of conditions there that can make that difficult. | ||
| No, they were very generous. | ||
| They didn't turn anyone down during the lockdown. | ||
| We're being very spurious. | ||
| We're very wonky. | ||
| I'm sorry I interrupted you. | ||
| It's not wonky. | ||
| Something about some dead guy about how crime is helpful. | ||
| It's all so funny. | ||
| Josh and Charlie Kirk are the guests. | ||
| I actually don't know if Durkan was white. | ||
| So I'm not pro-crime, not pro-criminal here. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's all so funny. | |
| I'm pro-leniency, only in some... | ||
| Josh and Charlie Kirk are the guests. | ||
| What a laugh, Rod. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The environment in prison is very bad encouraging people to their life together when they get out. | |
| That's why so many people, they get out of prison, they have six months on the street before they're back in. | ||
| Sometimes it's because they want to go back in. | ||
| Prison's all they know. | ||
| They did a movie about that. | ||
| Shawshank Redemption. | ||
| And it was a good movie. | ||
| It was a great movie. | ||
| Yeah, which only serves my point. | ||
| But with regards to being lax on crime or whatever, there are a couple of things I think we should all agree to. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| First of all, well maybe we wouldn't. | ||
| Drugs is bad. | ||
| We need to stop locking people up for weed. | ||
| Just flat out. | ||
| I think that drugs in general should be treated like a medical issue. | ||
| Portugal did that. | ||
| They decriminalized all drugs. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So, So you take like heroin. | |
| Nobody wants to be on heroin. | ||
| Things up. | ||
| So, you treat that like a medical issue. | ||
| Say, hey, we have government offices. | ||
| You want to come by? | ||
| That helps. | ||
| Far fewer overdose deaths. | ||
| And those people, they go ahead, they become socially productive. | ||
| Bam. | ||
| No crime. | ||
| They contribute to the economy. | ||
| It just works better than locking them up. | ||
| More people will do drugs if we legalize them. | ||
| And drugs make people retarded. | ||
| First of all, we've actually had a really hard time hiring for specific work, like labor stuff, because nobody wants to work. | ||
| And no joke, I've been having conversations every other day, like, can we find some people? | ||
| And it's like, we can't find anybody. | ||
| We've got signs up and down all throughout the area where it's like, come in, open interviews. | ||
| We had over 800 shortages because it's a trucker. | ||
| Keep spamming my name. | ||
| We're looking at this unemployment stimulus. | ||
| Keep spamming my name in the live chat. | ||
| Keep spamming my name. | ||
| Another than the child tax credit, which won't be for everybody. | ||
| The whole debate. | ||
| And we're seeing a correlation with massive job openings and people not taking these jobs. | ||
| I think it's phenomenal. | ||
| Finally, the bargaining power is in the hands of the workers more so. | ||
| But it's broken. | ||
| The flights are shutting down. | ||
| Nobody wants the jobs, even when they do increase the salaries. | ||
| So it's true. | ||
| The flights are an issue. | ||
| But here's what they don't tell you. | ||
| In the news briefs. | ||
| So stop. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| Stock buybacks, something that many companies now do because of their decriminalization. | ||
| The airline companies have spent an anomalous amount of their profits each year on stock buybacks to enrich their CEOs and shareholders. | ||
| Rather, people need to raise their wages. | ||
| You see these news stories from time to time where it's like, I raised my wage It's to 15 an hour and people showed up and it's like yeah, that is how economics works. | ||
| We had a John Schnatter Papa John on the show and he told us a story about a pizzeria where they're paying 35 bucks an hour to some of their pizza cooks Wow bakers because that was that was that that was a line he kept trying to find people nobody would do it he kept raising wages they're paying before was like 15 and now they're over double what they were paying in labor. | ||
| Well, they have no choice but to charge substantially more for pizza. | ||
| In the short term, within a month or so, that might have an impact. | ||
| Contractor can't afford to take his family out for dinner, he can't afford to I just want to say, what we're having right now is an unprecedented economic shock. | ||
| For a year, nobody worked, or very few people worked. | ||
| the landlords aren't going to be able to hire the maintenance crews to fix the buildings. | ||
| The landlords are on fixed pricing, which they can't change, which then results in a brick wall, a collapse. | ||
| I just want to say what we're having right now is an unprecedented economic shock. | ||
| For a year, nobody worked or very few people worked and people got used to staying at home. | ||
| And as the government should, it should have done more. | ||
| But as the government should, it took care of them a little bit. | ||
| You know? | ||
| We have to ride this out. | ||
| What are government funds for, but riding this out through common crises? | ||
| And they're realizing, work sucks. | ||
| Sucks everywhere. | ||
| But in this country, compared to maybe some of our equally developed contemporaries, work really sucks. | ||
| The work culture, our rate of over-productivity. | ||
| Americans more than any other developed country, by the way. | ||
| We push our workers harder. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, it doesn't bother me that people aren't working. | |
| And you have favorable employment numbers, but you don't have favorable underemployment numbers. | ||
| There are a lot of people who have jobs, but they have like two to three part-time jobs. | ||
| They don't get their schedule for the next month until like two weeks about whether or not they're going to make their shifts line up to get enough hours to get the money they need to pay. | ||
| Who do you know? | ||
|
unidentified
|
All the worst three part-time jobs. | |
| It sucks, and it's untenable, and we are in an era of unprecedented record profits for CEOs. | ||
| So, yes, I think the solution to this, and it'll be around $15 an hour, was never a federal mandate. | ||
| Maybe it was the inevitable economic necessity of incentivizing workers. | ||
| The reason workers are staying home is because they can take on a federal mandate. | ||
| I will say that the lockdowns were way too harsh and intense. | ||
| I will say there is a Fifth Amendment argument to be made though that if the government forces you to not work then you should be able to get something in return. | ||
| The government cannot take something from you constitutionally and not argument, right? | ||
| Which was one of the best arguments for the stimulus package. | ||
| I just think the lockdowns were far too severe and far too intense and really infringed on people's liberties and abilities to be able to take risks. | ||
| I want to go a different direction. | ||
| I just want to ask you a question. | ||
| It's just more kind of about human nature. | ||
| Do you think human beings are naturally good or naturally bad as human nature? | ||
| He hasn't talked in like a half hour, and the first thing he does is ask a question. | ||
| And it's about whether or not people are good or evil. | ||
| talked in like a half hour and the first thing he does is ask a question hardwired to be self-serving the best society and it's about merges those two whether the best interest for you is the best interest for everyone the social contract contract it's all hand i guess i would just say the ubiquitous philosophical term more so than well because they Well, because they all wrote on those terms, right? | ||
| And they totally disagreed with that. | ||
| They all thought different things of humans. | ||
| They all thought... Hobbes was at a very dark view, Rousseau very positive, Locke was more neutral. | ||
| I'm just curious. | ||
| Socialists tend to think that human beings are fundamentally positive, but I reject that because... That's why I'm curious, because you see way too cynical for that. | ||
| Well, the implicit suggestion to that... This is an interview! | ||
| This is like a Tucker Carlson imitation interviewing Bosch. | ||
| I don't believe that. | ||
| I think that the best economic systems will work when everyone is an absolute P.O.S. | ||
| Just a dirty, horrible human being. | ||
| Survive human greed. | ||
| I want to ask you a very general question. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh-oh. | |
| Those are the worst ones to answer. | ||
| Do you think some people are better than other people? | ||
| Can I add a bit of nuance to that answer? | ||
| Answer however you want. | ||
| I think that some people have been developed to be more moral and of better character. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| I didn't mean moral. | ||
| Just better like, like, like they're taller? | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's it. | |
| Oh. | ||
| But I think, you know, your interpretation of the question is part of the answer. | ||
| By any metric, there will always be people who are better than others, always perhaps by some combination of environment and genetics. | ||
| I just hope that we can all ride along by side each other. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| I think, you know, I mentioned this before the show, if you were to ask anybody on the left or the right to pull people out of poverty, things like that, I guess the issue is disagree on how we get there. | ||
| Well, I think we want... I'm not sure if we want the same thing. | ||
| I want more preservation and conservation of what we already have. | ||
| Do you want socialism? | ||
| Absolutely not. | ||
| Oh, no. | ||
| Slight ideological disagreement. | ||
| Come on, come on. | ||
| We don't need to play the word games. | ||
| Why do you want to preserve? | ||
| Well, I think that we have something beautiful, unique, and exceptional. | ||
| This is what it comes down to! | ||
| This is it! | ||
| And the fact that we've been able to build something decent and civil is pretty remarkable. | ||
| Are you saying that we have a good system? | ||
|
unidentified
|
A great system. | |
| But I would never want to grow complacent. | ||
| And he has no justification to preserve this country. | ||
| Conservatives have no answer. | ||
| Of course not, no. | ||
| I mean, the sacrifice of rights is something that usually has to be earned negatively, like murdering somebody. | ||
| So this is what I mean, because I think I could ask you the same question. | ||
| But I would never want to grow complacent. | ||
| You're both familiar with the Marxian theory of dialectic materialism, correct? | ||
| You mean Hegel's theory? | ||
| No, he had... | ||
| He had the dialectic, and we built on it, you know? | ||
| We? | ||
| I'd love to get into the Marx thing, because I'm super fascinated by it. | ||
| No, I just want to say, you know, the theory, I mean, put simply, I guess, is In Marxian view, it's very Hegelian. | ||
| Well, yeah. | ||
| No, I mean, he was a student of Hegel. | ||
| I know. | ||
| He was part of this. | ||
| He was the young Hegelian who won the argument. | ||
| Well, no, I'm not. | ||
| Well, you're not. | ||
| I'm just saying, like, he would get mad at you if you said he was Hegelian influence, but I don't think I would. | ||
| Hegel was a smart guy. | ||
| I just can't read his work because... The phenomenology of spirit is impossible to read. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| All right. | ||
| I was worried you were going to make fun of me. | ||
| I just want to say... No, it's really hard. | ||
| He made the very simple complex. | ||
| We agree on something. | ||
| I just want to say... Sorry, sorry. | ||
| The project of humans moving forward... Who is the target audience? | ||
| I think antagonism fuels it, but in the best way. | ||
| Not antagonism like war, but antagonism... And we challenge that. | ||
| So I just want to say something we disagree on. | ||
| I don't think humanity Humanity's a project. | ||
| Do you think we're headed towards something better than what we have today? | ||
| Probably not. | ||
| I think that we're actually, we're probably engaging in the second law of thermodynamics currently. | ||
| That we're untangling. | ||
| We're going to chaos, not order. | ||
| See, this to me, this is the thing. | ||
| And I'm not trying to patronize. | ||
| Conservatives have been shown to be more fearful on average. | ||
| And I think if they thought that way, it would be very warranted. | ||
| But some fears are legitimate. | ||
| Certainly. | ||
| Winston Churchill's fears about the evil Germans were legitimate. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| I'm not. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| And it's not about fear. | ||
| Oh, come on. | ||
| You don't believe that. | ||
| No, for sure. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We see it right now. | |
| You know what my problem is? | ||
| I see all the news, I see all the arguments about climate change, and I'm like, I understand them. | ||
| And then you get Obama buying beachfront property, you get the celebrities flying in airplanes, and I'm like, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! | ||
|
unidentified
|
We're all here watching Tim Pool, Alternative Media, so we can hear about, Obama's a climate hypocrite! | |
| He bought a big house in Marge's Vineyard! | ||
| What is this, Sean Hannity? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is this The Five? | |
| Is this Fox & Friends? | ||
| I'd like to think. | ||
| I mean, people have always said this is the best it gets. | ||
| You know, the Postmaster General back in... Was it the Postmaster General? | ||
| Was it the Patent Office? | ||
| No, the Patent Office, 1900. | ||
| All the patents have been made. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah. | |
| And I'm not saying it's the best it's been. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I mean, just straight up, this debate has been a... | |
| Unmitigated disaster. | ||
| What I live in today would have been incomprehensible to them in every imaginable sense, every conceivable way. | ||
| But their arguments for the permanence of society then would have been better than mine today because they would have lived in a stable, feudal society for millennia. | ||
| And today, I now am here using technology that would have been alien to humans 20 years ago. | ||
| I think about, like, the Cultural Revolution, I think about the revolution in Russia, and you mentioned that conservatives tend to be more fearful, and I think there's history that shows us, and then end up with an unchecked movement That results in millions dead. | ||
| For sure. | ||
| 20 to 40 million. | ||
| Here we go. | ||
| 100 million dead from communism! | ||
| Always hindsight, right? | ||
| Because people thought this about every major event in social progress in America's history as well. | ||
| The breakup, the Confederacy, the Civil War, the fight to abolish slavery, sure. | ||
| You know, suffrage for women, yes. | ||
| The Civil Rights Act, yes. | ||
| Gay marriage, yes. | ||
| Every time we take a step forward, you're probably anti-gay marriage, right? | ||
| I'm pro-traditional marriage. | ||
| Okay, sure. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Anti-gay marriage. | ||
| Pro-traditional marriage. | ||
| You can't even say anti. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Gotcha. | |
| Different definitions. | ||
| One man, one woman. | ||
| Every time we take a step forward, I disagreed on polyamory, actually. | ||
| That was 50% more efficient than the previous method. | ||
| That's not actually a study, is it? | ||
| And ten times more chaotic and way more perverse. | ||
| I'm not actually citing anything. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's possibly not a linear growth pattern. | |
| By the time you hit 12 parents, should the children just... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Just a god, by the way. | |
| It's like a warp spirit. | ||
| Very ubermensch, but continue. | ||
| Sorry. | ||
| It always feels like everyone argues, like, this is the best it gets, and any future steps would be treacherous. | ||
| But then we always make that next step. | ||
| I don't know if America's going to be around forever. | ||
| We're a young country, and countries fall older than ours have fallen in the lifetime of America. | ||
| So I can't look and assign to them a feeling of permanence. | ||
| But I can say this, I fear stagnation. | ||
| And every country that has ever set itself upon stagnation has always died. | ||
| Every time. | ||
| Every country always seeks to better itself. | ||
| And maybe that road to betterment leads to ruin, but the path of stagnation is always ruinous. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| Our culture has stagnated severely. | ||
| But the so-called social progress is not an answer to that. | ||
| It's a rationalization. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Movies have become repetitive, redundant reboots. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's right in a sense, but the answer to stagnation is expansion. | |
| Not reform, not social progress. | ||
| Social progress is rationalization. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes it is. | |
| I'm going to take some exception with your argument. | ||
| Social progress is right. | ||
| Which is just not true. | ||
| I'm not saying you'd be a confederate. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, it is. | |
| And I'm not even getting to the point. | ||
| Traditionalists were against the abolition of slavery. | ||
| They were against civil rights movement. | ||
| between hyper-focusing on racial politics in the 1860s and the 1920s, and some of the people on the American left that are just completely obsessed with American racial politics. | ||
| - It's equality versus hierarchy, right? - But what do you mean by that? | ||
| - Well, back then, the slave owners wouldn't have been like, I'm really obsessed with race. | ||
| Or equality. | ||
| You know, nowadays, I mean, obsession with race can be pernicious in many ways, but I think there's a pretty big difference between being obsessed with the idea of racial equality and being obsessed with racial domination. | ||
| I think it's equally as pernicious, just they don't have the power to implement it. | ||
| But we kind of already did that whole discussion. | ||
| Do you think I'd do that? | ||
| Like, do you? | ||
| No, I don't think you would. | ||
| You would. | ||
| I mean, I don't know you well enough. | ||
| You seem rather decent. | ||
| I try my best. | ||
| I just read the thing. | ||
| We have a constitution to prevent us against people like that. | ||
| What I'm saying, though, is that, for example, I'm not against social change. | ||
| I mean, I'd love to abolish abortion, for example. | ||
| I'd love to put fathers back in the home. | ||
| No doubt. | ||
| So conservatives are not necessarily always saying, no, we don't want to improve. | ||
| We want to stagnate. | ||
| We want the correct form of social change. | ||
| So let me ask this, then. | ||
| Let's get to the core of it, then. | ||
| What values are you looking to maximize? | ||
| This is a great question. | ||
| Not just like morality, because that could mean the same thing or different things to anyone. | ||
| But if you were to look at a society and were asked to assess its worth, what metrics would you look towards? | ||
| Its ability to defend those that can't defend themselves. | ||
| Charity, generosity. | ||
| All right. | ||
| - The ability to pass down good and moral values to the next generation, one that believes in work, and one that believes in the cause of the nation above the self. - All right. | ||
| I've got an idea of that. - I think that's a fairly collectivist point, that last one though, wouldn't it be? | ||
| - Well, the nation above the self. | ||
| above itself i mean you could call it collectivist but i wouldn't say the state i'd say the idea of the nation there's two different things those are conflated sometimes by libertarian socialist types which is a walking contradiction i love to ask you about that sure but just like ambition being like a christian atheist i might answer it when you're done humility yeah i think my people the people are the country that's why our constitution the preamble says we the people not we the federal government right so the people are the nation | ||
| and so that's why differentiate between the two but he's defining do you have a loyalty people are the government because the declaration says that you want to create something bigger than yourselves i think that's a moral good to me and i mean it is with uh without meaning to hyperbolize but to me that's always strong rather fascist the I mean, no! | ||
| of the common man, the people, the Volk, you know? | ||
| The idea that there is a state, and Germany was a state, of course, but Hitler didn't really appeal to the state. | ||
| It was the concept of the fatherland that he really hit on, and the people were... | ||
|
unidentified
|
I mean, no! | |
| I mean... ...mental organ. | ||
| And to me, the problem with this is that terrible things, because interpersonally, all of the chemical effects of empathy kick in. | ||
| I look at you, I see you, but you start bringing in concepts like the nation, the fatherland, and it becomes very easy to convince people to compel themselves towards courses that they would otherwise not. | ||
| That's simply not true. | ||
| I expected you to use a 1930s reference earlier, so congratulations. | ||
| I'm not calling you a fascist, I'm only saying that... No, I know, you did do the correct, I didn't mean to hyperbolize, but there's other nations today that have those values that we would never call fascist, like Japan. | ||
| Japan has very strict immigration. | ||
| Well, I think Korea is actually a better example. | ||
| I agree with you. | ||
| You're wonderful. | ||
| I think they do so in part because they're... It's funny, I feel like our roles are being reversed a little bit here. | ||
| Isn't that interesting? | ||
| Good isn't something I appeal to. | ||
| For me, the value I want to maximize is freedom. | ||
| That's what I care about most, and that's what libertarian socialism is about. | ||
| There are many types of freedoms, positive and negative. | ||
| If I might indulge very briefly, is a man thrown to a lawless desert without food, water, or clothing free? | ||
| I'm really asking. | ||
| But that's an extreme example, not applicable in modern, wealthy America. | ||
| Or any Western nation. | ||
| But it's a philosophical base. | ||
| It's also a Rousseauian argument. | ||
| Man's born free and he spends the rest of his life in chains. | ||
| It's just anti-commercial in nature. | ||
| Well, no, but it's a base philosophical argument. | ||
| Because, it's true, they're lawless. | ||
| There's nothing preventing him from doing anything in that environment. | ||
| But he has no ability to act on his desires. | ||
| But do you know what he does have? | ||
| Consciousness. | ||
| Well, sure. | ||
| So that's a natural rights doctrine that I will defend. | ||
| Well, I mean, I like consciousness, too. | ||
| The only point that I'm getting at is when it comes to people's freedom and the ability for people to protect their freedom. | ||
| This is what I care about. | ||
| It's what Marx cared about. | ||
| If you actually read what he wrote. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I have. | |
| I've read Das Kapital. | ||
| I've read the Manifestment. | ||
| Guess what? | ||
| He was right about this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He wants to impress Vosch and his fans. | |
| That society was a very complex interlocking network of systems. | ||
| He wants to show us fans he's not so bad. | ||
| After all, we have... | ||
| It's this chasing this red-brown alliance. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Working class populism. | |
| It's the same retarded Steve Bannon strategy. | ||
| that sometimes people can be free for other devices that they are not able to regulate. | ||
| They can be free not from alcoholism, drug addiction, some sort of any other thing. | ||
| Motherfucker. | ||
|
unidentified
|
sort of perverse addiction. | |
| The idea of freedom is very libertarian. | ||
| But I agree with that, though. | ||
| No, I know you do. | ||
| The greatest society is one where a man is born, and there are as few things as possible preventing him from doing whatever he wants for the rest of his life. | ||
| I totally disagree. | ||
|
unidentified
|
To do the same. | |
| So I think that's a miserable society. | ||
| Freedom? | ||
| No, that's not freedom. | ||
| That's licentiousness or degeneracy. | ||
| That's chaos. | ||
| What is degeneracy? | ||
| I like men. | ||
| How about pedophilia? | ||
| Okay, well obviously... You said whatever he wants! | ||
| Is pedophilia a freedom voucher? | ||
| As long as they don't infringe on the rights of others. | ||
| I'm sure you could believe, I would believe that. | ||
| So there are limits on freedom is what you're saying. | ||
| It's not this Wild West campaign. | ||
| So where do you get those limits from? | ||
| Well, obviously you would probably have to have a pretty complex interlocking legal system to determine what we agree upon as, like, reasonable limits we can place on people's behavior. | ||
| We have that now, to an extent. | ||
| No, I know, so, like... No, so, like, pedophilia, bad. | ||
| That would be a bad thing. | ||
| Okay, kidnapping. | ||
| They're bad because you're stripping other people of the ability to do that which they will. | ||
| With all those examples, you're inflicting harm. | ||
| I talked about this last night. | ||
| How about dealing drugs? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I think that dealing drugs is a person's fault. | |
| Their morality is about harm. | ||
| What about dealing drugs to kids? | ||
| Dealing drugs to kids. | ||
| I think I would disagree with that, probably because I think there's something exceptional about addictive substances and children. | ||
| That being said, I think a lot of stuff would apply to children specifically. | ||
| Contract law. | ||
| Kids can't sign contracts. | ||
| Do you see what I'm getting at? | ||
| Eventually you do agree that a conservative framework is necessary. | ||
| I don't think that's a conservative framework, because there are other things I care about that you would always disagree with, like collective ownership of the means of production. | ||
| Yeah, I totally disagree. | ||
| Freedom are linked together, which would give workers the most freedom possible. | ||
| We've definitely gone along because it was just so fantastic. | ||
| It feels like it's been five minutes. | ||
| Yeah, I know. | ||
| I know. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And Ian, you've collected a bunch of it feels like it's been five hours. | ||
| So right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| I'm gonna use the restroom. | ||
| Is that OK? | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| All right. | ||
| Go do it. | ||
| Take like. | ||
| A hundred seconds. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm kind of interested what you think about, I think humans are inherently destructive by nature and that if you took a human and put them in a room with a bunch of small animals and plants over time, his hunger, purely because of hunger, ultimately, he would destroy and consume all of those animals and all of those plants. | |
| And then if you put another human in there. | ||
| Why would you do that? | ||
| Inherently expensive. | ||
| You didn't go to the show? | ||
|
unidentified
|
You didn't go to the bathroom before the stream? | |
| You can't hold it? | ||
| I had to pee before I started and I'm holding it! | ||
| What an asshole. | ||
| They do this. | ||
| Every animal does. | ||
| That's unique to us. | ||
| What an asshole. | ||
| Other animals don't do that. | ||
| I don't know if that's a good thing. | ||
| Maybe everything would have been better. | ||
| They do this. | ||
| Every animal does. | ||
| The issue is that... | ||
| Build spaceships? | ||
| No, no, no, no. | ||
| Expand. | ||
| This has been a terrible debate performance. | ||
|
unidentified
|
There's no way that you can cut this where this is a Charlie Kern win. | |
| This is an unequivocal Ian Kuczynski victory. | ||
| We're too serious. | ||
| There's no way that you can cut this where this is a Charlie Kirk win. | ||
| This is an unequivocal Ian Kaczynski victory. | ||
| We're too serious. | ||
|
unidentified
|
End of story. | |
| He dominated the floor. | ||
| I don't even know what Charlie Kirk was arguing. | ||
| Walk away from the table and tell me what Charlie Kirk's argument was. | ||
| We adapt instantly. | ||
| We were like, hey, that bird's flying. | ||
| Did not build up momentum. | ||
| Did not frame the conversation. | ||
| Uplifted the opponent! | ||
| In a non-controversial way. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Believe it or not, we'll have to catch the behind-the-scenes release. | |
| I don't have much optimism for the human condition. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Every way, shape, and form. | |
| I can't say anything positive. | ||
| And he came across as unlikable! | ||
| The Tucker thing is so alienating and off-putting, I can't even begin. | ||
| We're better receptive to reward incentives than any other... We mentioned in the beginning, go through and try and find really good questions. | ||
| A lot of people are saying really awesome things. | ||
| I want to read one that's not a question real quickly. | ||
| It's from Adam Schrader who said, So far, this whole conversation reminds me of friendly bar discussions ten years ago. | ||
| I miss that world. | ||
| Thank you, Vosh and Charlie, for being excellent. | ||
| Thank you, Tim, for steel manning. | ||
| You all have leader demeanors. | ||
| I know a lot of people disagree with each other, especially in the chat. | ||
| Not everyone gets along, but... But we all can come together and have a conversation! | ||
| Ian's got some questions. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Let me bring him to you. | |
| And then, uh, afterwards, uh, if we still have time, uh, permitting, I would like to do the- the member segment, and then personally be more involved than I've been for the most part. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, sorry, we've been- You! | |
| You haven't said anything! | ||
| I'm like... Okay, these are- these are some pretty good ones, so- so you just say press- Okay, there we go. | ||
| So Ian's pulled some superchats. | ||
| M asks, please ask each guest if they agree or disagree with the statement, abortion breaks the non-aggression principle and why? | ||
| Obviously, I think abortion is immoral and we should do our best to eradicate it. | ||
| I don't really believe in the N.A.P. | ||
| I understand people's discomfort with abortion. | ||
| I think that unfortunately it's a legal necessity as a byproduct of some very compelling personhood arguments I've heard in the past, which I would have to read up on again before reciting. | ||
| Can I ask a question? | ||
| When do you think life begins? | ||
| I don't know what life is. | ||
| So how about your life? | ||
| You have life right now. | ||
| When did your life begin? | ||
| I don't remember the first six months of my life. | ||
| I genuinely don't. | ||
| Looking at the development of a human life, when would you say that begins? | ||
| I know when human bodies develop. | ||
| The genuine answer that I have is that I think that it's always going to be dictated somewhat by intuition. | ||
| The intuitive answer from me is life begins at birth. | ||
| That's my intuitive. | ||
| If you asked me, like, that's what feels right. | ||
| But I'm sympathetic to other perspectives. | ||
| What about when DNA is formed? | ||
| Well, that would be a conception, right? | ||
| Or at least right after. | ||
| Well, that's obviously not the metric. | ||
| Okay, yeah, no. | ||
| Yeah, no, these are interesting metrics. | ||
| I think that my understanding of consciousness is more of an emergent property of experience, more so than it is. | ||
| I would have to reread. | ||
| It's been a while since I've read up on this. | ||
| You know what I love? | ||
| You said, when do you think life begins? | ||
| That was your question? | ||
| I love how framing changes everything. | ||
| Watch. | ||
| Ask Mino. | ||
| Tim, when does life begin? | ||
| I think it was when proteins formed and started self-replicating in the primordial. | ||
| Oh, you mean conception. | ||
| You see, it's interesting how framing changes everything. | ||
| Wow! | ||
| That's fascinating stuff, guys. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really? | |
| This is very enriching. | ||
| That's fascinating stuff, guys. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really, this is very enriching. | |
| I wasn't meaning to poke at you or anything. | ||
| No, no, I know. | ||
| To me, that has to be a legal question because protection has to be arbitred by Thank God for me. | ||
| Am I right? | ||
| I thank God for America first. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I saved politics. | |
| If it wasn't for me, this is all that you would have. | ||
| This is what they would be. | ||
| Thank God for America first. | ||
| I saved politics. | ||
| But if you're talking about a legal... | ||
|
unidentified
|
If it wasn't for me, this is all that you would have. | |
| This is what they would be. | ||
| And there are other legal concerns as well. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But this is an issue that I think I'm... | |
| Well, I always support a pro-choice argument. | ||
| The philosophy behind it is something I'm a little more open to. | ||
| So is it more on the size of the being or the level of development of the being or the environment of the being or the degree of dependency? ... | ||
| The degree of dependency is legally worthwhile, but for consciousness, I think it's more about it being an emergent property of experience. | ||
| So is it okay then if we just basically pull the plug on all the people that are kind of comatose and cucumbers on machines? | ||
| They really don't have self-consciousness and they're very dependent. | ||
| Well, I mean, legally, we do believe that. | ||
| Because if you have... Oh, it's very tricky in the courts. | ||
| It is, but it's not the same as murdering a person. | ||
| If there's conservatorship over a person who's brain dead, there are instances where you will be allowed to pull the plug. | ||
| This is... You can't do so without an arbiter, though. | ||
| You can't just call in and say, just pull the plug. | ||
| That is murder. | ||
| Well, yeah, you can just yank it, of course. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You have to have approval and process. | |
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| It shows that there is an arbiter, though. | ||
| That you have to go through a system I didn't mean to derail Tim. | ||
| I want to make sure we can get to as many questions as possible. | ||
| Camilla Mamani says, WTF a libertarian socialist is like a meat eater vegan. | ||
| These people are like room temperature IQ. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The people asking the questions are room temperature IQ. | |
| The people answering them are like 100 IQ. | ||
| The people asking the questions are room temperature IQ. | ||
| The people answering them are like 100 IQ. | ||
| The people asking the questions are room temperature IQ. | ||
| Actually, before that, libertarianism was exclusively in the purview of socialists. | ||
| And I believe what they believed, that freedom is the greatest human good, as long as it doesn't infringe upon others. | ||
| And that the best way to achieve that freedom is through democracy. | ||
| We have political democracy, flawed as it is. | ||
| Left libertarian quadrant is the hardest quadrant to be in. | ||
| You have the only persuasion tactics. | ||
| If you're a left libertarian, which exists, you're basically saying, I like socialism. | ||
| Now I have to convince people that it's the right thing and they'll agree with me. | ||
| And people just won't. | ||
| I find left libertarians less threatening to the American way of life. | ||
| Oh, thank you. | ||
| Because you have a general distaste for authoritarianism. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, for what it's worth... The right has money. | |
| They're like, well, you won't agree with me, but I can give you money! | ||
| And they're like... The left does too. | ||
| Sorry, go ahead. | ||
| No, I just want to say, for what it's worth, there are some people who call themselves socialists, who I actually think would agree probably more with you than with the call. | ||
| It's certainly not what I would. | ||
| China first! | ||
|
unidentified
|
China first! | |
| I can't help but think, like, okay, these are conservative, what would you call them, traditionalist social positions, and you defend, you know, a strong state with a strong common will towards the betterment of the state and the foreign market. | ||
| I don't know, you know? | ||
| Maybe that'll be, what would they call that, the Red-Brown Alliance? | ||
| No, I'm joking. | ||
| In a way. | ||
| So I've got a question for Charlie. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| I'm not sure, I'm not familiar, are you familiar with Alden's theory? | ||
| No. | ||
| You're not? | ||
| Oh, okay, then I guess I won't answer that question then. | ||
| All right, then the next question would be for both of you is, what is the single biggest political issue for each of you? | ||
| And Charlie, do you want to answer first? | ||
| Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. | ||
| Political issue? | ||
| I'm sorry, for 2022. | ||
| Oh, like... Should Republicans run on, I guess? | ||
| Or like, what is the biggest issue? | ||
|
unidentified
|
What's the most important electoral issue? | |
| Yeah, I mean... Man, it's... | ||
| I'd say the way we do elections in our country is definitely up there. | ||
| Big tech is massive. | ||
| I think we almost achieved it tonight, which is that we're about to tear this country apart. | ||
| And I think dialogue is something that is so beautiful and is so complex and almost spiritual in nature that if we don't have dialogue with people that you fundamentally disagree with, then there's really not a middle ground. | ||
| ground until you start ripping each other apart. | ||
| I'm really afraid of that. | ||
| What's your... | ||
| Yeah, what's the biggest issue of 2022? | ||
| I agree that the political rift is... fix it. | ||
| We just had a civil war, and people were still mad after, so... I hope that doesn't happen. | ||
| I don't think we're gonna have a civil war, by the way. | ||
| There are some people... I think that at the end of the day, there's a big difference between the problems we're told to care about and the problems we're willing to fight about. | ||
| And I'm not entirely sure if I know where those lines are, but I know there's a difference. | ||
| With regards to what I'd care about, for me it has to be climate change. | ||
| I know a lot of people roll their eyes at this stuff, but, like, you can take a look at the polarized caps, you can take a look at the weather disasters we've been having, increasing both in frequency and intensity. | ||
| This isn't like a, like, look, think of it this way, okay? | ||
| I believe in American industry, alright? | ||
| It's a little too late for us For us to be first-comers, but if we really wanted to, we could subsidize the hell out of green energy. | ||
| You think we're doing it now? | ||
| The energy they'll need to survive. | ||
| You know what really breaks my heart? | ||
| Is the video I made before the before the actual Green New Deal talking about how we needed a Green New Deal and then AOC's Green New Deal was like equity and college and health care and out and then the botched FAQ and I was like I'm talking about why are we spending money on war when we could when we could be researching green technologies and more efficient energy thorium salt reactors things like that get fusion to ignite instead we get this like racial equity garbage bill this is I had this I did | ||
| But I had this problem, too, with that teacher's union. | ||
| Or maybe it was NEA. | ||
| That's what it is. | ||
| It's the largest teacher union in the country. | ||
| And first of all, what they said wasn't CRT. | ||
| But I'll take that up with them if I ever. | ||
| They did. | ||
| And still, they got that wrong. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So if I ever argue with them. | |
| They mean what we've been taught, wokeism. | ||
| Yeah, I just, ugh, man. | ||
| It's because the theory is cool, you know? | ||
| You wouldn't agree with it, but it's interesting. | ||
| Let's finish what you're saying. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I want to say something about this really quick. | |
| I do not think it's cool, and I think it's rad. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, the theory is awesome. | |
| It's like the theory of communism. | ||
| We should have a class, a philosophy class, where you learn about critical race theory. | ||
| Teaching it in practice to children is a different idea. | ||
| So I actually, in response to my advocate, and I think the idea of the oppressed versus oppressor in race, ...is a horrible thing when we're trying to get away from that. | ||
| And I had a conversation with an actual racist recently, and the ideas to me are absolutely nonsensical to base things on race. | ||
| Coming from an actual racist who was advocating for the same things in that book, I was like, so you're happy with the stuff? | ||
| Like, well, no, because the wrong side's in charge. | ||
| And then I had explained to them, like, I do not see the world the way you do. | ||
| And he says, well, that's the trouble with race mixing. | ||
| And that's, and no, but that's exactly, this is what I see when I talk to people who are in favor of critical race theories, core ideology, and white nationalists. | ||
| They tell me the same garbage in different ways. | ||
| Look, I have always been a firm supporter of the idea that people will make fun of me because I talk on class issues and I'm from Beverly Hills. | ||
| I accept the jiving, you know, it's fine. | ||
| But I think anyone can speak in this stuff. | ||
| To be fair, this is idpol, and everyone does it to an extent. | ||
| Candace Owens will deflect criticisms of racism by saying she's black. | ||
| We've all seen people do this. | ||
| The only thing I wanted to say, because I have to move back like six points here, is that with regards to the teachers board you spoke on, and the Green New Deal, I sometimes feel like the left is a little bit bad when it comes to mixing all their causes. | ||
| If they, speaking of separatism, if they kept things a little bit more stringent, a little more focused, maybe they could get people to agree on some of it. | ||
| But if every push for climate change is also every other progressive note, and every push for racial equality is every other progressive note. | ||
| And to inject my id poll, as you mentioned, you know, Candace Owens would do it. | ||
| I would. | ||
| And a lot of people are always mentioning it. | ||
| Tim Poole mentions he's mixed race. | ||
| And I'm like, maybe that's why you'll understand when people are writing like, whiteness this and people of color that. | ||
| I'm like, I don't, I don't exist in that world because I've been discriminated against by all of these people. | ||
| And when that person said to me, you know, the perils of mixed racing or race mixing, he's talking about me personally saying, I don't understand the tribalist worldview of racialists and identitarians because I've never experienced what it means to be in a racial tribe. | ||
| And you know what? | ||
| I think he's right. | ||
| And that's why Judging people based on the content of their character, not the color of their skin. | ||
| Because I see this world that's being built critical of whiteness. | ||
| Me, but then it's always the negative. | ||
| Every experience I've ever had, be it from white nationalists or from critical race theorists, is that you are bad for whatever reason. | ||
| I do not want to live in a world where race is the predetermined policymaker or factor on these things. | ||
| And you know what? | ||
| For the progressives to come out right now and claim civil rights and say, we did all these things, and then tell me I now face a detriment. | ||
| I'm like, you know what, man? | ||
| My grandparents, civil rights activists, race mixers, my My actual parents also mix in races and stuff and I'm like what I do and the white nationalists who vandalized my home as a child. | ||
| And it's the world that you're taking credit for. | ||
| There it is. | ||
| You're trying not to put a detriment for people like me. | ||
| It could to me, it could be a matter of perception as well. | ||
| I've read a lot of, like, academic critiques of whiteness, which isn't white people. | ||
| It's a sort of a... That's not true at all. | ||
| Well, it's an academic term to describe affectations associated with white people culturally, more so than the actual act of being white. | ||
| But black and brown literally means black and brown. | ||
| If there was a critique of blackness, what would you think of that? | ||
| Well, if it was an If the shoe was on the other foot... You know the term toxic masculinity? | ||
| Yeah, I've heard it once or twice. | ||
| You know, when I read stuff like that, it's interesting stuff, you know? | ||
| I don't think of this, all men are bad, all masculinity is bad, it's more of a salient critique of certain cultural trends. | ||
| Now, the problem that I have is essentialism. | ||
| Some people will take this, on both the left and the right, and they'll think of it as an individual critique, which it should never be used as. | ||
| If I were to say something like, imagine I'm reading MLK back in... That's kind of ironic, don't you think? | ||
| MLK had some things to say about white people back during his era. | ||
| He would say that, you know, the whites of this era are unconcerned with the plight of black people. | ||
| It's predeterminate public policy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
This is a non-politicalism. | |
| He wouldn't go up to an individual white person and judge them negatively for that. | ||
| But he understood that as a cultural trend, this is indeed a pattern he recognized. | ||
| So massive group stereotyping. | ||
| Well, massive group stereotyping that's been done by every civil rights movement to have ever existed. | ||
| Maybe the issue isn't the stereotyping so much as the way it's being applied and used. | ||
| If the stereotyping is, I notice there's a big difference in abolitionist thoughts between white and black people in Southern America in 1852. | ||
| Maybe that's the kind of stereotyping that can be used for good. | ||
| Also, stereotyping, by definition, is assuming characteristics of an individual because of their part of a group. | ||
| That's close to what MLK was saying when he said white liberals. | ||
| You wouldn't apply it to an individual, though. | ||
| I mean, I'm a minority. | ||
| It's a lot of them. | ||
| But I know people who play League of Legends. | ||
| And when I talk about people who play League of Legends, I'm not talking about them. | ||
| I'm talking about people who play League of Legends. | ||
| So I want to ask you about the climate change thing. | ||
| What do you think is a bigger threat, climate change or China? | ||
| To the world or to America? | ||
| To you, the world, America. | ||
| I think it's still climate change. | ||
| I think China's probably going to replace us as the dominant power. | ||
| I'm not really happy about that because we're more democratic than they are in terms of our political structure. | ||
| If they had a better democracy, I might favor them over us because I don't really care about national allegiances. | ||
| But we are more democratic than them. | ||
| So the climate change thing is an issue that will affect us all, though. | ||
| Refugees. | ||
| There are a lot of low-lying coastal communities that are going to be inhospitable to life in about 40 years. | ||
| And they're going to move out into populated areas. | ||
| And there's going to be border conflicts and war. | ||
| It's going to be tough. | ||
| We're not going to be able to get to every single Super Chat. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm so sorry. | |
| No, no, no, it's no big deal because I think it's more important that you guys are having these arguments. | ||
| So I'm not going to interrupt you when you're actually debating the ideas. | ||
| That's the point. | ||
| But a lot of people did Super Chat. | ||
| Just know that you guys, Super Chats are greatly appreciated. | ||
| There's a whole lot of them. | ||
| We love you. | ||
| You guys rock. | ||
| But I've got one, um, critical for you, Vosh. | ||
| Coming up. | ||
| Nasho Nabo says Vosh is a black person who grew up in majority white areas. | ||
| Those conversations are very demoralizing. | ||
| Don't appreciate the white savior critique because that's just the opposite. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I agree. | |
| end of id poll isn't it saying that i'm less inclined to talk about these issues because i'm white like that's kind of like it's the opposite i agree i think address the idea i agree yeah too um but with regards to like the implementation here obviously like social problems like this addressing them is going to be contentious no matter what i don't know if there's a way to do this to fix any problem even the most obvious problems today we think slavery obviously that's bad but clearly there was some disagreement with issues like this | ||
| there's going to be disagreement i don't know if there's a perfect way to handle it anything is going to mix people up i have to balance that concern with the hope this guy talks so much people become more accepted to gen z gen z people are like 30 30 30 times as likely to know a person who identifies as trans or non-binary or whatever. | ||
| And for that reason, conversations on those subjects have become significantly easier, just because people have been exposed to the concept. | ||
| Maybe in time this will be easier. | ||
| Maybe I'll fail. | ||
| We'll all fail and it won't be. | ||
| But I am sorry that these conversations are difficult. | ||
| All right, let's see. | ||
| Well, I gotta be honest. | ||
| The overwhelming majority of the Super Chats are just saying, thank you for having a conversation. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Those are the overwhelming majority ones that I copied. | |
| No, no, no. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I was looking at it. | |
| I thought you had all the questions. | ||
| So I was like, okay, I can see everyone very well. | ||
| And some people have pointed out that in a... ...terrissive and divisive in your arguments. | ||
| All YouTubers try to be nice in my streams. | ||
| So here's a here's an interesting and kind of specific question. | ||
| Joshua Alley asks, should courts decide cases based on rule of law and precedence or decide each case based on based entirely on rationality and morality? | ||
|
unidentified
|
What a stupid question. | |
| Yeah, it needs to be a balance. | ||
| Precedence definitely matters, especially in the American system. | ||
| And the idea of the whole third branch of government really kind of came into question with Marbury versus Madison. | ||
| Supreme Court Justice of the United States John Jay, I believe, who was one of the co-authors of the Federalist Papers. | ||
| It's a super important thing that Conservatives need to talk more about, which I think you would agree with, Vaush, is that precedents can be really bad. | ||
| Dred Scott was awful precedent. | ||
| It was really bad. | ||
| It was seven Democrat U.S. | ||
| Supreme Court justices, two Democrats, that said black people were not people. | ||
| And that precedent was in law, basically, for many decades until it was eventually reversed, largely because of the Brown v. Board of Education. | ||
| But precedent also is helpful so that you don't turn the courts into another legislative branch, right? | ||
| So the courts say no to more cases than they say yes to. | ||
| And so the question is, where do you strike that balance? - Yeah. | ||
| Alexander Hamilton predicted that it would be mostly based on public opinion, that judges are still people too, and they're going to look to public opinion. | ||
| This goes to more of a Democratic argument than a Republic-style argument. | ||
| I will defend precedent more than overturning, but I definitely think the court has gone wrong in a variety of different decisions in the last 60 years. | ||
| And I think that what happens is you have very activist decisions, and then they decide not to look at it again under a conservative belief of precedent. | ||
| I think I would lean more towards precedent, though. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Two hours and 15 minutes of this crap. | |
| Sorry, as well. | ||
| Though maybe for a different reason, at the discretion of the judge, it becomes very difficult to correct legal trends through anything other than appoint better judges. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| Which can be an incredibly longstanding process. | ||
| And even then, it's what, a crapshoot? | ||
| I mean, you don't know everyone's opinion on everything. | ||
| That being said, I do think that to an extent judges are legislators. | ||
| This is actually a critical legal theory perspective which fed into CRT, the idea that within the bounds of discretion, judges will almost always side with the political biases they have. | ||
| What is even the argument? | ||
| a dig on any side. | ||
| That's just what we are. | ||
| That judges who identify in the plurality of cases because our biases do it for us. | ||
| I think that we have to recognize that's a reality, but we do have to constrain the process through judicial They just talk and talk, particularly Vosch. | ||
| I just want to point out, one of the Super Chats noted that we were trending. | ||
| Oh, is that right? | ||
| On Twitter or on YouTube? | ||
| On Twitter, but it says, uh, content creator Vosch debates with radio talk show host Charlie Kirk on Twitch. | ||
| Oh, are we on Twitch? | ||
|
unidentified
|
We're on Twitch! | |
| We're on YouTube! | ||
| I just thought it was funny that it was wrong. | ||
| At least we're trending. | ||
| But it's like, how did you get that wrong? | ||
| Unless somebody's like, screen-grabbing it. | ||
| Hey, listen, after the Twitter trending title descriptor had to spend like six weeks in a row describing everything that happened with those Minecraft videos. | ||
| Maybe somebody's re-streaming it on Twitch or whatever, you know? | ||
| Copyright infringement! | ||
| I'm just kidding. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It is. | |
| No, I know that Shu did a stream commentating on it. | ||
| Look at this. | ||
| Oh, really? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Maybe that was on Twitch. | |
| Alright, so we got one from Dylan Perrick. | ||
| He says, Do you guys think philosophy could be taught instead of CRT, like Plato's Allegory and The Cave? | ||
| In my opinion, stuff like this helps people better understand one another individually. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow! | |
| I'm hugely in favor of more theoretical classes being taught to high schoolers. | ||
| Philosophy, sociology, and I don't know what the modern equivalent of finances or home improvement, but something like that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Kids graduate, they don't know anything about anything when it comes to managing their finances. | |
| Which is, we agree, because that will destroy them if they don't. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I agree. | |
| Wow. | ||
| Should we teach philosophy in school? | ||
| Mind blown. | ||
| leaning inclinations on that. | ||
| I mean, like, the basic ability to read statistical information. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Should we teach philosophy in school? | |
| I don't have the education to understand. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, philosophy comes from a Greek word, love of wisdom, philosophos, and we definitely don't have that in our country. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Whoa! | |
| I'm a big fan of teaching. | ||
| I just want to speak it correctly. | ||
| I'd say a lot less Nietzsche and Kant and Hume and a lot more Aristotle and Locke and Aquinas and Augustine. | ||
| And I think the problem is though, if philosophy... I'm not going to teach philosophy until you could do advanced Euclidean geometry. | ||
| It was his rule. | ||
| And be able to determine good ideas from bad ideas. | ||
| So I think there's actually something to that, that if you introduce philosophy too early, you can create ...create kind of one-liner philosophers that think they understand the entire world, and it really goes to that expression, the more I know, the more I realize how little I knew when I thought I knew it all. | ||
| That's kind of that idea of daring to know. | ||
| People should not be taught philosophy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
People should be taught to obey the state and to shut up. | |
| And just like where you think that fits into a function. | ||
| We should all just focus on religion. | ||
| And for everybody who super chatted, I know I really wish I could get to every single question and comment. | ||
| But when you guys, we ask a question and you guys have that debate, that's the point of this. | ||
| So, you know, I try to do as many as we could. | ||
| I do like talking. | ||
| I just thought it was better to let you guys talk instead of constantly trying to just cut off the actual discussion and the flow of things, so my apologies to everybody who superchatted, but if you go to TimCast.com, become a member, we are going to now have another conversation, which I don't believe will be up by 11pm this time, because Debating religion. | ||
| I absolutely love the religious conversations we've had on this show on TimCastIRL. | ||
| Also it'll be at TimCast.com. | ||
| Smash that like button. | ||
| Subscribe to this channel. | ||
| Share this show with your friends. | ||
| You can follow us at TimCastIRL. | ||
| You can follow me at TimCast. | ||
| And also check out Rumble.com so you don't get censored. | ||
| R-U-M-B-L-E.com. | ||
| My name is Vosh and I'm on YouTube. | ||
| That's V-A-U-S-H. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I hate both of them. | |
| They're both so fucking phony in their own ways. | ||
| And vote Biden for more censorship to add, to expand upon the existing. | ||
| Talk to your doctor. | ||
| Make good decisions. | ||
| Talk to your doctor about what's right for you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Of course. | |
| Talk to your doctor about voting for Biden. | ||
| Hey, depending on where you live, your doctor might say no. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's all so funny. | |
| It's all so fucking funny. | ||
| This is great, man. | ||
| In a lot of the Super Chats, people were pointing out, like, you don't even have to agree with anyone here. | ||
| Just the fact that we're having conversation is like the spirit of freedom. | ||
| Yeah, man. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Except for me, though. | |
| Except for me. | ||
| Except for the guy that's on the no-fly list on our FBI investigation and banned from everything. | ||
| Yeah, I'm not read up on religious theory. | ||
| So five proofs of God, you better be ready to go. | ||
| All right, Lydia. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm also here in the corner. | |
| This is a wonderful conversation. | ||
| I was actually at the bar. | ||
| Conversation that somebody just picked up somebody else's like, you know what he's So here's what I want to do. | ||
| I really want to dive in and question socialism. | ||
| And we'll start with talking about religion. | ||
| So go to TimCast.com. | ||
| Members-only segment will be up when it's up, because we're not going to go forever, but we'll probably have a good conversation. | ||
| So thanks for hanging out for the live version, and we'll see you all in an hour or so over at TimCast.com. | ||
| Again, sincere thanks to everybody who hung out. | ||
| Smash that like button on your way out, and we'll see you soon. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Bye, guys. | |
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| Debate. | ||
| That wasn't a debate, that was a discussion! | ||
| And it sucked! | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm muting that now. | |
| And, uh, let me do this. | ||
| Okay! | ||
| So there you have it, that's the Charlie Kirk Vosch debate live on TimCast IRL, live from West Virginia. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Whoops! | |
| Whoa! | ||
| Let's turn off autoplay there. | ||
| What do we got in the recommendations? | ||
| PewDiePie, Elijah Schaefer. | ||
|
unidentified
|
This is what we have now. | |
| This is all that we have. | ||
| Lo-Fi. | ||
| This is the political dialogue. | ||
| Tim Pool, John Doyle, Elijah Schaffer, Avash, Charlie Kirk, It's very enriching and we're all glad that everyone is having conversations. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We're just glad to be having the conversation. | |
| Can I just say, excuse me if I may, apologies if I'm interrupting, but if I may, can I just say that I am so flipping impressed that we're sitting around here talking to each other civilly even It's insulting. | ||
| It's insulting to my intelligence that I would have to sit through. . | ||
| But we did. | ||
| We finished it. | ||
| Two and a half hours of Vosh and Charlie Kirk going at it. | ||
| Let me put something up on the screen. | ||
| I guess I'll just put Lo-Fi. | ||
| Lo-fi in the background here. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We got it. | |
| Like, like this. | ||
| Do, do, do, do, do. | ||
| That going to work? | ||
| In the background. | ||
| Let me put it on. | ||
| Let's put some music on. | ||
| Is it on? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I'm relating to that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh. | |
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh. | |
| Like that. | ||
| Uh. | ||
| I want to kill myself. | ||
| After watching that, I don't want to be alive anymore. | ||
| But, alright, enough complaining. | ||
| I want to get through the super chats, but first I just want to summarize briefly my thoughts, you know. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, Here's the thing, here's the thing. | |
| It's interesting for a few reasons. | ||
| Number one, the debate, the reason why this is interesting is for a few reasons. | ||
| Number one, it's because Charlie Kirk and Vosch are not alike. | ||
| They're not similar. | ||
| They come from different worlds. | ||
| You know, Vosch comes from Twitch and from YouTube and he's a live streamer and Charlie Kirk really comes from a more conventional political background. | ||
| Charlie Kirk is, you could say, a professional. | ||
| ...streamer and rapidly growing, but an amateur one. | ||
| And so, you know, it's interesting because Vosch getting on Tim Pool, it's a big opportunity for him, and the debate with Charlie Kirk in itself confers credibility on Vosch because Charlie Kirk is a conventional and a high-profile political actor. | ||
| Charlie Kirk is an ally of former President Donald Trump. | ||
| Vosch is a live streamer. | ||
| Right? | ||
| So, Charlie Kirk agreeing to debate Vosh Appear on the same debate with him in itself legitimizes Vosh and elevates him to a comparable live stream audience on the internet. | ||
| Get a comparable radio audience or listenership on a podcast, but the demographic cohort is different that that would follow him on that medium. | ||
| So I'm not saying that he's as popular more popular. | ||
| I'm saying that in terms of legitimization, he comes from a more conventional and legitimate political background. | ||
| So already by agreeing to come to the table. | ||
| It benefits Vaush. | ||
| It just does. | ||
| I don't know that there's a big benefit from Charlie Kirk other than he becomes part of this conversation on this medium for a younger audience and for a different audience than he's used to. | ||
| Charlie Kirk is seen as an establishment actor. | ||
| I mean, people look at him and they see a conservative partisan. | ||
| But the Tim Pool Show, and it's also, it's sort of like part of the political realignment that's been happening since the 2016 election. | ||
| So, Charlie Kirk, by inserting himself, does legitimize Vaush, but at the same time, | ||
| It also might change people's perspective on Charlie Kirk and you know maybe they see him less again as a conservative Republican partisan and more as as I don't know maybe they see him as a young voice with maybe something different to say so he has an opportunity to change people's expectations or their perception of him so that's what I'll say right out of the gate that That's why it's interesting to have that matchup because they're not similar. | ||
| They're not similar in that regard. | ||
| They're the same age, though. | ||
| I didn't know that. | ||
| I think Kirk said he's, what, 27 or 28? | ||
| Bosh is 27. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Anyway... | |
| So the debate started off, the two topics they were supposed to talk about were coronavirus and critical race theory. | ||
| The coronavirus debate was short, but it was very focused. | ||
| The CRT debate was sort of meandering and unfocused and long and drawn out. | ||
| And it was interesting because Charlie Kirk, with the coronavirus debate, came out very strong right out of the gate. | ||
| He had a command of the facts, I'll give From the beginning, although it was more confrontational and although it was more combative and although Although he was more combative and although Charlie Kirk was more aggressive, from the get-go he was conceding lots of ground. | ||
| And this is what I've always said about conservatives. | ||
| They always do this. | ||
| They will always concede far more ground than they need to. | ||
| In other words, you know, the point of a debate is that two opposing sides, opposed to one another, meaning differentiated and opposed on the key points, Come together to clash and argue their sides. | ||
| There's a purpose for this. | ||
| The purpose is not to achieve a resolution. | ||
| The purpose of having two opposing sides meet and exchange ideas and have a crosstalk is so that the audience, the moderator is there so that there can be a sort of clear exchange. | ||
| But the purpose for which arguments are more compelling. | ||
| And then they will decide where they fall along the spectrum. | ||
| Do they agree totally with one side or parts of the other side? | ||
| And Conservatives, what they will do, is they will, in an attempt to build consensus, in an attempt to be agreeable, they will move their position so that it is less differentiated from the opposing side. | ||
| side and it's not as opposed to the other side. | ||
| They'll moderate their position. | ||
| They'll moderate their position because they think that if they show up with a more moderate position that they as a personality will be more appealing to the audience. | ||
| So it's really not about the debate of the ideas. | ||
| It's really more about the rehabilitation of a personal brand. | ||
| That's what conservatives do. | ||
| They're not going out there to make a compelling conservative case. | ||
| They're going out there to make a case for their personal brand. | ||
| And they're doing that by making their personal brand more agreeable and more moderate and less divisive and less polar. | ||
| And so Charlie Kirk came into the debate and did he say the vaccine is deadly? | ||
| and you shouldn't get it and it doesn't work and they're lying about it he came in and said well I think you're a good guy and I think you have good intentions and I think we basically agree I'm just saying that I don't think I should get it and you always hear this kind of stuff all I'm saying is this I'm just saying this Minimizing and moderating the position they're staking out. | ||
| All I'm saying is this. | ||
| I don't disagree with the status quo that much. | ||
| I just have a small contention with it. | ||
| The problem with this in particular for conservatives is that all, all communication platforms are pushing for the opposite poll. | ||
| All social media, all of mainstream media and You know, the traditional television networks, radio stations, and newspapers, and print, and the think tanks, and so on, and the government bureaucracy, they're all pushing for the left-wing position. | ||
| The left-wing position that's all the way over there. | ||
| And conservatives say, well, I'm going to minimize my opposition to that. | ||
| I'm going to stake out the smallest, least controversial position possible. | ||
| It's close to the middle, right? | ||
| We need conservatives that will articulate the conservative poll. | ||
| Let people fall in the middle. | ||
| Let people fall to the right of the center. | ||
| Let them have a small contention. | ||
| Let them find something modern, an alternative view of the world, not a contention with the world as it is. | ||
| And this fundamental misunderstanding is why the whole debate was a catastrophe. | ||
| Because the whole debate was about trying to find consensus. | ||
| The whole debate was about trying to appease the other side, trying to come across as moderate, trying to minimize our opposition to the world as is. | ||
| But we oppose the world as it is. | ||
| And Charlie Kirk, if he's articulating his worldview about Aquinas and Aristotle and Augustine and about Christianity and about life and traditional marriage, that worldview is completely opposed to the world as it is. | ||
| It's not, well, we just The problem though is that Charlie Kirchner says those things because they're popular now. | ||
| That's not really his real worldview and his talking points are not up to date. | ||
| The talking points about race essentialism or racialism, the talking points about the welfare state, the talking points about all this stuff, It's not updated. | ||
| It's not brought up to speed with the ideology he claims to now profess because this new this new line about America's our home and actually I think that everyone should put the nation before the individual and so on these are just things that are in vogue to say now but the scaffolding is still there from the old The guy doesn't even have the vocabulary. | ||
| The guy doesn't have the understanding. | ||
| It's obvious to defend his new worldview. | ||
| His profoundly new worldview. | ||
| Profoundly different new worldview which is more conservative. | ||
| That's the other thing I noticed. | ||
| The whole performance by Kirk is put on. | ||
| It's an affect. | ||
| He's imitating Tucker Carlson. | ||
| He's doing a Tucker Carlson impression. | ||
| The tone with which he asks the questions, the sort of self, you know, I guess the mocking, serious tone, you know, pay close enough attention. | ||
| If you watch a Tucker Carlson monologue or maybe even a Tucker Carlson debate or an interview with somebody disagrees with and compare it to this performance, it's a bad Tucker Carlson imitation. | ||
| And honestly, in terms of substance, that's what was wrong with all debate, but Before getting into that, I first want to say, broadly speaking, this is the problem with these debates, is conservatives don't go into them trying to create a compelling, alternative vision for America. | ||
| And when I say alternative, I mean truly alternative. | ||
| Radical and shocking but something that that is resonant appeal to to the liberal notion of empathy or equality or things like that appeal to the right-wing notion of excellence and discipline and maybe Marshall Discipline and greatness and these kinds of things. | ||
| Christian virtue. | ||
| Tradition. | ||
| You have to appeal to something different because you're arguing an alternative worldview. | ||
| So it has to be radically different. | ||
| Instead, conservatives go in and they're trying to rehabilitate themselves in the eyes of the enemy. | ||
| Instead of going in and saying, I'm a conservative, I'm owning it, and I'm gonna make everyone in here a conservative, they come in and say, I'm gonna make these liberals think I'm not so bad. | ||
| That's a difference. | ||
| They don't go in and say, I'm gonna defend conservatives, I'm gonna prove I'm a conservative, and I'm gonna make the case for the conservative worldview, and I'm gonna own it. | ||
| They go in there and they say, I want everyone to like me. | ||
| I want my enemy to respect me. | ||
| I want people to think I'm not so bad. | ||
| I don't want to insult My opponent because half the people watching are watching for my opponent and you don't win a debate like that if going back for the opposed side That's not even what they're trying to do. | ||
| So certainly they're not going to be able to do that Then you have to get into tactics and on a purely tactical level it's a total failure because I'm sure if you had a stopwatch and you just measured how long people are talking, Vosh probably talked for three quarters of the whole debate. | ||
| And there's three people! | ||
| There's arguably like five people because there's Adam and there's the girl. | ||
| But there's a moderator and there's two opponents and Vosch probably talked for well over half of the time. | ||
| And it wasn't a coincidence. | ||
| Vosch would use his time and talk as long as he wanted. | ||
| Charlie Kirk, every time he got the floor, would use it to ask Vosch a question. | ||
| Ask him, well, what do you believe? | ||
| What are you against? | ||
| And what do you think, Tim? | ||
| And I don't want to interrupt. | ||
| It was like, you know, you remember Joe Biden during the Democratic debates? | ||
| Joe Biden, the last 10 seconds of his allotted time for an answer, he would say, oh, I'm sorry, am I over time? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Give it back to the moderator. | |
| I talked a lot about this during the presidential debates, and I talked a lot about this on my show. | ||
| It's all about attention. | ||
| It's all about eyeballs. | ||
| You know, when you are trying to make your case, this is just strategic, you want to use every moment that the camera is on you, every moment that the microphone, that you have the microphone, and every word that you say, every syllable out of your mouth, is advancing your worldview. | ||
| It's framing the conversation from your perspective. | ||
| You know, so even- that's why going on the defensive is a bad tactic. | ||
| Because if you're going on the defensive, what are you doing? | ||
| You're arguing the other person's worldview from their frame, but just- but just from a different- goes in and says, you know, well, I think you're like a fascist. | ||
| You're like the 1930s. | ||
| And Charlie Kurtz says, well, no- I'm not, and here's X, Y, and Z, Y. Well, what's- what's the positive claim that's being argued? | ||
| You are a fascist. | ||
| You're spending your time where the camera's on you and you've got the microphone to discuss their claim, to discuss their worldview. | ||
| That's why being on the defensive is a terrible thing. | ||
| That's why people pivot. | ||
| That's why in presidential debates people get annoyed by this, but the moderator asks a question and the candidate will say, well that's a great question, but really I love America and this is my five-point plan. | ||
| Because it's about milking the time. | ||
| It's not about, it's not, your goal isn't The goal is to sell people. | ||
| It's to sell people on your ideology. | ||
| The McDonald's commercial does not spend time answering why McDonald's is unhealthy and why people prefer Burger King sometimes. | ||
| It's about, look at our hamburger. | ||
| It's so juicy and it's cheap and everyone's loving it and everything. | ||
| The same premise applies to marketing and politics to a debate. | ||
| This is just basic stuff. | ||
| And so Charlie Kirk, not using time, not claiming time, passing his time off, using his time to answer rebuttals, using his time to ask the other person a question. | ||
| What do you do when you ask the other person a question? | ||
| You give them time. | ||
| You give them time. | ||
| Time to frame the debate, time to, you know, market their worldview. | ||
| It's not an interview, it's a debate. | ||
| So debates should be full of declarative statements. | ||
| And if there's questions, they should be rhetorical. | ||
| A debate should be making your arguments. | ||
| Not asking them to defend theirs. | ||
| That's giving them a platform to make their arguments. | ||
| You should make your own arguments. | ||
| And you should want to have as much time to do that as possible. | ||
| You have an audience of 52,000 concurrent viewers, and they're watching, and they came there to hear a clash of ideas. | ||
| They want to hear two perspectives on an idea. | ||
| And Charlie Kirk was interviewing Vosch about his perspective on all the ideas. | ||
| And when it was his turn, he was, uh, you know, it was, well, I have to object to this. | ||
| I have to have a moderate objection to this part. | ||
| It's just off-putting. | ||
| You gotta be yourself. | ||
| You gotta be yourself. | ||
| It's one thing to take pieces, Which can be effective. | ||
| But a wholesale, you know, a wholesale imitation, a wholesale impersonation, very off-putting. | ||
| You know, because it becomes uncanny. | ||
| People recognize it, it's familiar, and you're never going to be as Tucker Carlson as Tucker Carlson. | ||
| So it comes across as insincere. | ||
| And that's a big problem. | ||
| You know, all across the board, it's a disaster. | ||
| You know, in the first place, because of the tone and the attitude that was taken. | ||
| It's a disaster because of the use of time. | ||
| You know, the amount of time and the use of time, and asking questions and everything. | ||
| The tone that was used, the kind of, you know, personal affect that was put on was terrible. | ||
| And there was one other thing I was going to say about the overall sort of style of it. | ||
| What was I going to say? | ||
| Maybe it'll come back to me. | ||
| But then on the substance, the problem is this. | ||
| Conservatives don't actually have a compelling alternative. | ||
| The Charlie Kirk conservatism, it's really, it's the same socialism sucks with a new coat of paint. | ||
| It's the same socialism sucks, free market, limited government, 2024, and Tucker Carlson, and all this shit. | ||
| So it's the same, you know, become a victor, not a victim. | ||
| It's the same rootin' tootin' constitutional, you know, slavish defense of America. | ||
| But, I'm gonna drop some things here and there for base points. | ||
| I'm gonna say America's a home. | ||
| No elaboration on that, and nothing that he argued would indicate that he feels that way, but it's something that is just said now. | ||
| And, well, we need to have allegiance to the nation. | ||
| Again, nothing that he argued would indicate that he feels that way, but it's just something people say now. | ||
| That's another thing that Tucker Carlson says. | ||
| And what's more, the whole ideology is a multiracial working class populism. | ||
| It's the same repurposed GOP sludge to fit Trumpism, to fit the post-Trump era. | ||
| Let's take the same Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged, Paul Ryan, Heritage Foundation, Mitt Romney, you know, AFI, is that what it's called? | ||
| Or what's the college organization? | ||
| I forget the... what's the acronym? | ||
| I have one of their books. | ||
| But, it's that same establishment agenda, but they've repurposed it. | ||
| Steve Bannon, and Ryan Grodusky, and Tucker Carlson, and Peter Thiel, and all these new populist think types, they've come along and they've got a bright... So we're gonna take it, we're gonna submerge it in a vat of Heritage Foundation Solution and Outcomes Multiracial Working Class Populism. | ||
| And now we're going to have a think tank run by an Indian and a Chinese man talking about American greatness and Teddy Roosevelt. | ||
| And where does American greatness come from? | ||
| It comes from the middle class. | ||
| It comes from class. | ||
| It comes from manufacturing. | ||
| It comes from productivity. | ||
| It comes from economy. | ||
| We're economic nationalists, not white nationalists. | ||
| We're working class nationalists. | ||
| We're not American nationalists. | ||
| We'll defend industry. | ||
| We will not defend our identity. | ||
| And that, I mean, ultimately, that is representative of what the whole right wing is doing. | ||
| That's what all of populists think is trying to do. | ||
| It's the same bullshit with the new code of pain. | ||
| Let's try and repurpose this, you know, GDP worship. | ||
| Let's try to repurpose what wasn't working before, what was a messaging deficit, what they think, and we'll just change the messaging. | ||
| And so, it's the same race-blind, anti-racist, anti-woke-ism, rugged individualism, but we're just gonna call it working-class populism instead. | ||
| Instead of telling, instead of saying blacks, lift yourselves up by your bootstraps, we're gonna say something like, you know, blacks are being hurt by illegal immigration too, and we need opportunity zones, or you know, some other thing like that. | ||
| But it's ultimately the same. | ||
| Rights movement, they both think that racism is a problem, they both want They both want a Marshall Plan. | ||
| They both want a GI Bill for all the N-words and S-words. | ||
| They both want a new GI Bill for all the poor and all the better. | ||
| But they fundamentally agree. | ||
| And they fundamentally agree on lots of this stuff. | ||
| So it wasn't just the Tucker Carlson personal affect and style, it was the whole Tucker Carlson, you know, half loaf, you know, crumb from the whole loaf of what we actually believe. | ||
| You know? | ||
| It's not just Tucker- It's not just Charlie doing the Tucker Carlson face. | ||
| White replacement is a voting rights issue, and it's not about race. | ||
| You're the race. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's wokeism. | |
| Wouldn't you say? | ||
| No, it's not. | ||
| It's not about class. | ||
| It is about race. | ||
| And by the way, Tim Pool is the same way. | ||
| And then even the China stuff, the cherry on top was then at the end, he even threw in the thing about China. | ||
| What do you think is a bigger threat, climate change or China? | ||
| So it literally is a Tucker Carlson show. | ||
| It literally is. | ||
| Half-baked, working-class, multiracial populism, plus the fucking neocon China warmongering. | ||
| So it literally is a Steve Bannon agenda. | ||
| It literally is a Steve Bannon... | ||
| Which is repurposed economic bullshit, plus renewed hawkishness, this time against China rather than Russia, because Bannon's funded by a Chinese billionaire in exile, and because the right wing is still hawkish, right? | ||
| They're still neocons, it's a new war. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Not against Muslims, it's against Chinese! | |
| Chinese socialism! | ||
| So it's the whole thing was just a joke. | ||
| The whole thing was just an absolute total failure. | ||
| Oh, this is what I was going to say. | ||
| More to the point, more to the point. | ||
| The problem with this is not just that it's not new. | ||
| The problem is not just that it's insincere. | ||
| The problem is not just that it's the same failed ideology repackaged. | ||
| The problem is they're not articulating a real vision for America. | ||
| You know, what we're really talking about here is a conflict of visions. | ||
| And Vaush is motivated by a vision of America. | ||
| He's got a purpose. | ||
| There's a telos there. | ||
| There's a directionality to what he's doing. | ||
| He's got an answer. | ||
| He knows why he's waking up every day. | ||
| And his vision of America, we don't like it. | ||
| We would say it's bullshit. | ||
| But it's tangible, it's aspirational, it's inspirational. | ||
| And so when he talks about, we need to educate people about the problems in America to create a class of activists to radically change America, that's a vision. | ||
| We're going to create green energy and create... ...to the world and we're gonna, you know, all this kind of stuff. | ||
| That's a real, that's a real vision that can possess people. | ||
| Don't you think things are worth preserving? | ||
| Like, you tell me! | ||
| You tell me! | ||
| You're the debater! | ||
| Tell me! | ||
| You're the debater! | ||
| Shouldn't you argue that preservation is a value that we should care about? | ||
| Isn't it your job as a debater to argue and provide a compelling case, a compelling vision, that people should fall in line behind? | ||
| But he's asking Vaush to defend his own ideology. | ||
| Don't you think that we should preserve some things? | ||
| I mean, wouldn't you say at the minimum? | ||
| Why argue the minimum? | ||
| Argue the maximum. | ||
| We have to articulate a compelling They don't want America to survive. | ||
| That's just it. | ||
| They don't know what America is. | ||
| And what America is, they don't like, and they don't believe in it, and they are ashamed of it, and they're apologizing for it, and they don't want it to exist. | ||
| You know, when Charlie Kirk says, well, Vermont abolished slavery in 1777, you know what, like, Harry Truman said about blacks? | ||
| Why don't you go and take a look? | ||
| Harry Truman was president in the 50s, right? | ||
| Harry Truman was president from, what, 46 to 52. | ||
| Take a look at what Harry Truman had to say about the blacks. | ||
| Take a look at what Nixon had to say about the blacks. | ||
| Take a look at what Calvin Coolidge had to say about the blacks. | ||
| Or any of them for that matter. | ||
| And you tell me that America's not a racist nation? | ||
| America's not a slave nation? | ||
| Out of all the blacks and whites, a multiracial democracy? | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's never what it meant. | |
| And certainly, if you talk to the reason that they didn't put in place miscegenation laws or got rid of them miscegenation laws meaning outlying the marriage of blacks and whites it was because they thought that it was so so obviously wrong and so so the loss Abraham Lincoln who were according to this debate according to the myth | ||
| Of the debater's worldviews, Abraham Lincoln allegedly fought the war to free the slaves. | ||
| Abraham Lincoln said that if he could bring the Confederacy back into the Union without freeing one slave, he would do it. | ||
| And Abraham Lincoln himself said that he never thought that blacks and whites should live on this continent with full legal equality, full legal and political equality. | ||
| None of the founding fathers believed that. | ||
| And none of the American presidents believed that. | ||
| And no American political leaders believed that. | ||
| I mean, you know, generally speaking, For centuries. | ||
| So, and again, that's not to say that I feel that way, necessarily. | ||
| But it is to say that, you know, this slavish defense of the liberal, this propositional nation idea... In everything but name, Charlie Kirk now says America's a home, but yet he still is making these arguments. | ||
| ...arguments that America is a creedal identity, that America is a creedal nation. | ||
| It's a civic identity. | ||
| How do we define our nation? | ||
| Well, it's about... ...all of that is important, all of that is an achievement in political... ...philosophy of our people, of America, but that is an achievement of the people, the nation. | ||
| It's emergent from the nation, it's not the nation itself. | ||
| Of course, the nation precedes that, and the civilization preceded that nation. | ||
| Where did all these colonists come from? | ||
| You know, the Declaration came from the colonists, and the colonists came from where? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Europe. | |
| And where did they get these ideas from? | ||
| Well, the Magna Carta, and they got them from Rome, and they got them from Greece, and they got them from our civilization, from the mother of America, from our mother civilization. | ||
| And none of these people actually think any of that is worth defending, because they are perfectly willing to define that down to melanin. | ||
| and say that the greatest thing about George Washington is that he was a humanitarian. | ||
| That's not the greatest thing about George Washington. | ||
| He was one of the greatest statesmen of world history. | ||
| The achievements of the Founding Fathers were that they forged thinkers and leaders. | ||
| They achieved excellence. | ||
| That is what made them exceptional. | ||
| Not that they made it, you know, made a place for everyone else to come and hang out and have a good time. | ||
| That's not a compelling reason to perpetuate civilization. | ||
| That's why Western civilization exists. | ||
| Because it's an idea, and other people can have it, and other people can take it and imitate it. | ||
| That's worth fighting for. | ||
| That's our compelling vision. | ||
| We survive because why? | ||
| Our civilization survives because why? | ||
| Because of it? | ||
| Because that civic framework allows us to have a good economy? | ||
| What if the economy breaks? | ||
| Then what? | ||
| Leave in Abraham Lincoln because he helped out the black people? | ||
| Do the black people feel that way? | ||
|
unidentified
|
And it goes on and on. | |
| So they don't know what this nation is. | ||
| And if they actually were confronted with this nation, they would call it white supremacy. | ||
| They would call it white supremacy. | ||
| They would apologize for it. | ||
| They would do everything they could to evade it or hide from it. | ||
| And so how can you convince people to care about your civilization enough to die for it and work for it and expand it if you can't even affirm it? | ||
| If you can't even stand by it? | ||
| You know, the most that a Charlie Kirk would say is, well, we've made mistakes. | ||
| We've made missteps. | ||
| We're human beings. | ||
| It's not even a contest. | ||
| You have to be a chauvinist. | ||
| You have to be a nationalist. | ||
| You have to be an imperialist. | ||
| Which is really, I mean, Marxism succeeds liberalism. | ||
| You know, it's like when Charlie Kirk says, well, we're not teaching 4th graders about Gramsci in the same way that we're not teaching 4th graders about Euclidean geometry, but we teach them math in the same way, you know, Charlie Kirk is a 4th grader talking about anti-racism and Vosch is the collegiate level. | ||
| You get the liberal enlightenment and then you get the postmodern Marxism. | ||
| So, no, it was a failure. | ||
| No one is going to become a conservative. | ||
| No one is going to care if you can't articulate a compelling vision for America. | ||
| Donald Trump did. | ||
| I mean, he achieved something proximal to that, and that's why he was successful. | ||
| Mitt Romney got up there and said, like, well, Barack Obama's this bad dude. | ||
| He didn't even say that. | ||
| He said, Barack Obama's a bad manager. | ||
| You should pick me. | ||
| I'll manage this country better. | ||
| Yeah, who cares? | ||
| Donald Trump came in and said, we're gonna take this country and literally make it great again. | ||
| And, you know, when people made those meme edits of Donald Trump, they made videos of rocket ships taking off and and glimmering cities and, you know, what? | ||
|
unidentified
|
What? | |
| What was the iconic genre of music during the Meme War in 2016? | ||
| It was Vaporwave. | ||
| Vaporwave. | ||
| Where does that come from? | ||
| Vaporwave is a style of music that it samples 80s songs, 80s pop or R&B songs or disco songs, and distorts them. | ||
| And why is it called Vaporwave? | ||
| Because Vaporware, which was during the 80s and 90s, were these wonder products that were advertised but never came out. | ||
| And vaporwave music is a play on that. | ||
| It's a play on the consumerism of the 80s and distorting it. | ||
| And it's supposed to be reflective of the promise of the American dream, the promise of America, the wonder of America, but that never materialized. | ||
| It never came. | ||
| It ends on the internet behind the Trump revolution. | ||
| It's because that's what Trump represented. | ||
| It was about actualizing the greatness of America. | ||
| Actualizing the essential greatness of the American people. | ||
| And that was something to aspire to and believe in. | ||
| It was about taking that s**t up and saying, well, black people aren't doing good because of the welfare state. | ||
| And you know, it's like, shut the f**k up. | ||
| Just shut the f**k up. | ||
| Like everyone, everyone is dying. | ||
| Everyone is killing themselves. | ||
| There's no good reason to live anymore. | ||
| I'm sorry to say, I'm sorry to tell you anymore. | ||
| The system does not work. | ||
| The system is broken. | ||
| There's no opportunities. | ||
| Everything is terrible and it's getting worse. | ||
| The people that hate us and hate what we're about are in power and can make our life miserable. | ||
| And it's just not really worth fighting for, if that's all there is to it. | ||
| Which is, I mean, why are we going to stand up to the American Empire? | ||
| Why are we going to fly through the Death Star Trench and drop the Proton Torpedo into the exhaust port? | ||
| Why would we do that? | ||
| Because we want to be victors and not victims? | ||
| Fuck you! | ||
| Fuck you! | ||
| You know? | ||
| Why do you think people gravitate towards Hitler? | ||
| Why do you think right-wing people? | ||
| Why do you think on the internet, Whig-nats gravitate towards Hitler? | ||
| I'm not saying I'm pro-Hitler or anything, but what do you think people see in that? | ||
| It's obviously not something I endorse. | ||
| It's something that's foreign. | ||
| It's something that was cataclysmic for the world for a variety of complex reasons. | ||
| But, people look at that, and what do they see? | ||
| They see a reactionary alternative to communism. | ||
| It's just what it is. | ||
| People don't look at that and say, the Holocaust! | ||
| No, they don't say that. | ||
| But sometimes people look at that and they say, wow. | ||
| They say, wow. | ||
| Military might. | ||
| They see competence. | ||
| Don't misinterpret what I mean. | ||
| But some people look at that and say, maybe that's since World War II. | ||
| Maybe, maybe since World War I. Maybe since the French Revolution. | ||
| That was the last expression of a compelling right-wing alternative. | ||
| Now don't get me wrong. | ||
| Deeply problematic for various reasons. | ||
| I'm Christian. | ||
| You know, we're not in favor of, you know, this kind of scientific socialism. | ||
| I'm not in favor of the bureaucracy. | ||
| I'm not in favor of the secular religion of the state. | ||
| Certainly not in favor of the ghettos and the concentration camps and things like that, obviously. | ||
| But when you look at that, and it's important to consider this, that is a compelling reaction to communism and liberalism, which there is just no such other thing. | ||
| The trajectory of Western civilization since the French Revolution has been towards liberalization, and ultimately towards communism. | ||
| And it's been towards this suicide of our civilization, rationalized by liberalism, advanced by Marxism, And who has stood athwart of that? | ||
| King Louis XVI? | ||
| And who stood against that? | ||
| Metternich? | ||
| Bismarck? | ||
| Right? | ||
| Margaret Thatcher? | ||
| George Bush? | ||
| I mean, where's the reaction? | ||
| Where's the compelling reactionary vision? | ||
| And all of this is to Say, we have to think, we have to think bigger. | ||
| We have to think bigger than just, you know, uh, well, we're only opposed to this thing. | ||
| We're only opposed to, uh, making the facts mandatory. | ||
| But, you know, if you mandated it for schools, I think that's far more reasonable. | ||
| I mean, like, just shut up. | ||
| Just... ...of our civilization by elements that are hostile to it. | ||
| So, and that's not an apologia for Hitler, okay? | ||
| That's not apologetics for Nazi Germany. | ||
| All that is to say, it's striking. | ||
| It's striking. | ||
| The visuals are striking. | ||
| The message was compelling. | ||
| And these things are, you know, it's irrespective of whether you think it's right or wrong, or the morality of it, or the consequences of all of that. | ||
| We're talking strictly in terms of, you know, we're analyzing political efficacy. | ||
| That's all? | ||
| In the same way that you look at the Soviet Union? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I mean, you could equally look at the Soviet Union. | |
| Were all the anti-colonial forces in the third world communist? | ||
| It's because the communists were the only ones writing the books. | ||
| And the Soviet Union stood against the West powerfully. | ||
| You know, if you like that better, the aesthetics were powerful. | ||
| The story, the vision, the message was powerful. | ||
| They weren't there saying, hey, we just want worker co-ops. | ||
| They were saying, no, we need to completely change society. | ||
| We need a new calendar. | ||
| And we're going to build great monuments to great leaders. | ||
| And we're going to build a nuclear arsenal and have military parades. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right? | |
| Right? | ||
| A dictatorship of the proletariat! | ||
| These peasants, we're gonna make them the dictator. | ||
| And obviously, again, irrespective of what you think about that morally or how that turned out, it's about, you know, North Korea, China, Russia, there's, you can't argue with it. | ||
| There's a compelling aesthetic, there's a compelling vision. | ||
| This idea of fighting for the oppressed, against the colonial, disasters everywhere and guerrilla warfare. | ||
| And I mean, that's compelling. | ||
| And we need a reactionary vision for America that's as compelling in this. | ||
| Reheated bullshit. | ||
| It's just it's not going to work. | ||
| So that's. | ||
| So we have to find and that's how we have to be thinking. | ||
| Not not this. | ||
| This stuff is lame. | ||
| Stuff doesn't inspire anybody. | ||
| No one is going to walk away from this debate and say, wow, Charlie Kirk really inspired He really showed me why we should care about America. | ||
| If anything, I care a whole lot less about America after that. | ||
| You know, when they talk about John Jay and stuff, my eyes glaze over. | ||
| I go, boring! | ||
| Boring! | ||
| I'm gonna go and fight and die because John Jay was a great writer? | ||
| I mean, really? | ||
| I'm gonna go and fight and die because of the elegance of our Declaration! | ||
| The elegance of our Constitution! | ||
| Western civilization. | ||
| Western civilization should continue. | ||
| Should be perpetuated because of all this masturbatory stuff. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| Boo! | ||
| Boo! | ||
| Not good. | ||
| Conserve. | ||
| Why? | ||
| Why would we conserve? | ||
| conserve is always a losing battle. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So. | |
| All right. | ||
| Let's move on. | ||
| Let's take a look at our Super Chats. | ||
| We'll see what you guys are saying about this stuff. | ||
| Statues. | ||
| The people that made those statues are dead, okay? | ||
| And the people that made those seaside towns in the Mediterranean, you know, People are not gonna, sorry Chris Buskirk, sorry Bronze Age pervert. | ||
| Showing people pictures of dead civilizations is not it either, I'm sorry to tell you. | ||
| We're not gonna create a Faustian religion, it's not gonna happen. | ||
| We gotta be real, we gotta get real. | ||
| Stop the fucking lark. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Stop pretending. | ||
| It's got to be something visionary. | ||
| It's got to be something new. | ||
|
unidentified
|
These guys don't get, you know. | |
| They show you this. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| They show you the stuff like it's a museum and we're all supposed to be so appreciative. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's gotta be folkish. | |
| Okay. | ||
| all right but let's take a look at our super chats we'll see what you guys are saying I don't know if that makes any sense but it's just something I've been thinking about lately you know we're gonna need something that's really gonna animate people and a real alternative that that takes itself seriously you know Kuwaiti Groyper says it's an unknown year in | ||
| Well, I mean, I would offend one or the other if I said one or the other. | ||
| So, I don't want to offend one person. | ||
| Presumptuous, if you think I'm even going to have a wedding night, you know, in the first place. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I think that's a little presumptuous. | |
| I am an incel after all, so I don't know if we can really assume that. | ||
| The real question is, are both Jaden and Bjergsen going to... So we'll see. | ||
| Cold cheese, a smiley face, thanks. | ||
| Saxon says, fat gay retard brings up the MMR vaccine right out of the gate. | ||
| That thing almost killed me when I was a kid. | ||
| I have a permanent blood condition from it. | ||
| Great example, lol. | ||
| Yeah, all the vaccines are bad. | ||
| That's what they say. | ||
| They're like, well, all vaccines are like this. | ||
| It's like, yeah, all vaccines are bad. | ||
| He's wearing this weird white jacket. | ||
| Tim always looks like a Portland waiter. | ||
| Neither of these people look like serious people. | ||
| I genuinely don't know what to call, who to call a fat gay retard. | ||
| Put a jacket on and be presentable. | ||
| Vintage style, vintage values. | ||
| Stream you know they're doing it in like his house and like this recording studio. | ||
| So I don't know if I'd be nitpicky about that per se. | ||
| I think a full suit would be inappropriate maybe a suit with no tie you know a jacket for sure. | ||
| Ben says if you could add anyone to Mount Rushmore who would it be and why Donald Trump for obvious reasons. | ||
| TR says vaccinated people are the healthiest, non-fat people are the healthiest. | ||
| Also Fat Gay Retard's Widow Peak looks hilarious. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, he's honestly just a revolting slob. | |
| And, uh, that's true. | ||
| Zoomer Guy says, Hi Nikki Boy, did you hear the song yet where I had the Beardson feature? | ||
| Excuse me, I have to let you know it's pretty fired. | ||
| No, I haven't heard it. | ||
| Somebody's got to send it to me. | ||
| Spinefish says, I failed to clarify this during your stream this morning, but I think your baseball telegram post was powerful because it was a picture of yummy food from your box seat. | ||
| It had an energy reminiscent of the Trump picture with that big Philly cheesesteak on every time about those posts. | ||
| I will never stop. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's true. | |
| They hate to eat. | ||
| They hate to see a man eating that good. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I was eating good. | |
| It was a good beef sandwich. | ||
| Some people didn't even know what it is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Some people don't even know what that is. | |
| Imagine being so uncultured. | ||
| Imagine being... A lot of people, I'm sure, look at that and they can't even identify it, you know? | ||
| Because they've never been to Chicago? | ||
| Imagine. | ||
| But yeah, no, good stuff. | ||
| We love to see it. | ||
| We love a little beef. | ||
| Little beef sandwich at the ballgame. | ||
| Nothing quite like it. | ||
| Humongous. | ||
| It says, Nick, looking forward to your documentary. | ||
| Saw that part yesterday when you were talking about Lollapalooza. | ||
| I loved it. | ||
| I hate Normies' social gatherings and I'm slowly becoming an insider. | ||
| Yeah, I'm sure you are, but thanks. | ||
| I'm glad you like that. | ||
| I love when people, you know, Normies do that to themselves. | ||
| It's like when Normies watch Joker and they're like, he's just like me. | ||
| Yeah, that's great. | ||
| Why are these types so obsessed with finding common ground? | ||
| Because they're afraid. | ||
| They're afraid of their enemy. | ||
| They're afraid of the left. | ||
| They want to be liked. | ||
| Vitus as Kirk was clearly trying to ape your rhetorical style at the beginning of the debate But choked and fell back into his old debate tactic It's a lot of people want to be like you but don't come close. | ||
| I don't think he was necessarily I didn't pick up on that Actually one of my favorites I guess I guess it was released but it's more of the It's a single. | ||
| I don't think they even have it on Spotify, but it's one of my favorites. | ||
| It's very different. | ||
| The problem is the Kanye verse is so short, you know? | ||
| But it's a good one. | ||
| That one goes hard. | ||
| I love when people send these superchats so it's supposed to be like... You're not even... I don't think you really even care what I think about that song. | ||
| You just want to show me that you know what that song is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And then I'll be like... Wow! | |
| You knew that track too? | ||
| Sudden starvation is too good for him. | ||
| Impressive. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Impressive chat. | |
| Fresh Princess Amunda says, Nick watching Charlie like, I can save him. | ||
| No, not at all. | ||
| I don't think that at all. | ||
| Diligence says, hey Nick, what's up? | ||
| Not much, man. | ||
| Just doing this show. | ||
| What's up with you, dude? | ||
| Royce has played Baked Alaska's Twitter is Gay early and often. | ||
| Yeah, so true. | ||
| FortniteBurgerMan says, if there was anyone that you would be open to debate with, who would it be? | ||
| Anybody, really. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Vosh, Charlie Kirk, Destiny. | |
| What a dumb question. | ||
| Macman says, all the lies on history, slavery, race relations, holocaust, etc. | ||
| from tonight's debate. | ||
| I don't think they brought up the Holocaust. | ||
| And in general, our black killings have been subject to. | ||
| I'm starting to think even slavery wasn't real. | ||
| Hot take, man. | ||
| This is groundbreaking. | ||
| Macman says Kirk was a total pussy, but he did appear way more historically literate. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Vosch is just ignorant, you know. | ||
| And I am glad that that kind of shined through. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Because he just didn't know what he was talking about. | |
| About a lot of that stuff, right? | ||
| He got caught on the 1619 Project author, he got caught on the slavery question, and on what he was talking about. | ||
| So that was good. | ||
| Base Quint says, Niggas be like Nick, I got AIDS from having sex with a black guy. | ||
| Luckily the police got footage of it. | ||
| Yeah, I remember that joke from yesterday. | ||
| Michaels is wasting time with these people. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Fag Vosch hour. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Not a debate. | |
| True. | ||
| Medieval Groiper says conservatives need to stop deferring to leftists in debates expecting to reach common ground with them. | ||
| They'll never achieve it. | ||
| These people hate our very existence and it's pathetic watching Charlie smile like an idiot when they reach an agreement. | ||
| It is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It is. | |
| The civility stuff, it's such a... It's misplaced. | ||
| Mac Man says, A fellow white person called LonerBunkin shows that the opposition is futile. | ||
| It'd be a good stream. | ||
| Well, thanks for the advice. | ||
| Spinefish says, months ago I superchatted that I didn't like you having a background for the non-AF streams. | ||
| I hereby retract that statement. | ||
| Glad that it's growing on you. | ||
| Late Soviets is when Vosch is more sympathetic to white people by saying he doesn't want them to feel bad. | ||
| You know Kirk really fucked up. | ||
| What a loser. | ||
| I know, I caught that too. | ||
| That was the one time anybody was sympathetic to the plight of white people in the debate, and it came from Vosch. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mr. O'Reilly, would you be on his show? | |
| Yes, I would. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Of course I would. | |
| Of course I would. | ||
| I don't think that was Charlie's intention, but that is the result. | ||
| So true. | ||
| It's true. | ||
| I keep it real, man. | ||
| I don't think that was Charlie's intention, but that is the result. | ||
| VMI says, can we please just send all three of these losers to jail? | ||
|
unidentified
|
So true. | |
| Chicken on a raft says, fake debate. | ||
| You're not allowed on Timcast because you're real. | ||
| It's true. | ||
| I keep it real, man. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm too real. | |
| Michael Parker says, do you think people are good or bad? | ||
| I did it, and look at me! | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, that was the sponsor. | |
| Mac Mance says, Kirk talking about Hagel and the second law of thermodynamics is why people should be illiterate. | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Absolutely. | |
| Well, and you know he's just doing that for brownie points. | ||
| You know he read up on that so that Vosch would be so impressed. | ||
| See, I'm not an ignorant conservative. | ||
| I read Hegel! | ||
| Why does he care about Vosch's respect? | ||
| Vosch is a pedophile who wants to kill Charlie Kirk. | ||
| And Charlie Kirk is, uh, you know, jumping through hoops to impress this guy, to gain his respect. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Why? | |
| Michael Parker says Vosch said he likes men. | ||
| Yeah, he's gay. | ||
| I like how that one just kind of went unacknowledged kind of cack. | ||
|
unidentified
|
*sniff* He was like, what is degenerate? | |
| I mean, I like men. | ||
| And that just, everyone's just like, okay. | ||
| Trapper says, I think Charlie's argument was pretty clear. | ||
| He agrees with FGR. | ||
| What a disgrace. | ||
| Yeah, absolutely disgraceful. | ||
| Doomer Squidwards is 07, Nick. | ||
| Hey, big shout out! | ||
| 07s to DoomerSquidward in chat. | ||
| Thank you so much, man, for the big super chat. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Big shout out! | |
| I appreciate it. | ||
| A very generous super chatted. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Almost. - Christ. | |
| So everybody, 07 in chat for DoomerSquidward. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| 07 to you too. | ||
| Michael Smith says, this is Cancered AF. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Last night says, well Nick, it's been a pleasure watching you, but after that suck fest, I'll be killing myself after watching Fat Gay Retard interviewed by Charlie Kirk. | ||
| All I did was ask him questions. | ||
| What a joke, man. | ||
| Disappointed. | ||
| Me too. | ||
| It wasn't even good. | ||
| It wasn't even entertaining. | ||
| It just sucked. | ||
| It was boring. | ||
| I'm the only entertainer. | ||
| Me and Dick are the only entertaining ones left. | ||
| Who else is even doing anything worthwhile? | ||
| ...worthwhile or interesting. | ||
| We're the only ones that are real. | ||
| We're the only ones... ...or offensive. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So, yeah. | |
| I mean, more than anything, it just sucks because it's boring and lame. | ||
| Saucy says, do you think Charlie Kirk losing the debate will be good for you and AF? | ||
| Uh, yeah. | ||
| Jumer Squidward says, it's never sufficient enough for blacks or any other disaffected groups. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yep. | |
| That's exactly the problem, you know? | ||
| And when you really get into the weeds about correcting these historical wrongdoings, it belies the point that disparities will always remain. | ||
| Cannot be solved. | ||
| Panic King says you'd figure with all that Heritage Foundation money, Charlie Kirkwood would pay to have that asteroid-sized mole right off his face. | ||
| Does he have a mole? | ||
| I didn't even notice that. | ||
| Hi Tim, I just wanted to say thanks for hosting this debate between pee and poo, a peaceful dialectic between piss and poop, literacy rates in cities, and this nigga Vosh thinks we can teach Aristotle, yeah. | ||
| Teach philosophy, yeah. | ||
| Stephan Molyneux can be the director of education. | ||
| Jackson Adams No clue what they're talking about what are we gonna see you you hop on a debate with one of and then just we're just with one of one of them I'd love to I mean I love to debate with one of them Bosch Charlie Kirk or anybody really so I don't know | ||
| You know, as long as we have a moderator, and he can't mute my microphone, I mean, I think that goes without saying, that's a debate, I'll debate him anywhere. | ||
| But he's like, no, it has to be on my Discord server, and it has to be on my channel, and no moderator, and I get to mute you. | ||
| Okay, so that's not really a debate you're interested in. | ||
| But I'll debate Vosh, I'll debate Charlie Kirk, I'll debate any of them, you know. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But that'll never happen. | |
| He says fight is officially November 20th in Louisville, Kentucky. | ||
| A baller. | ||
| So I'll be there. | ||
| Louisville, Kentucky. | ||
| November 20th. | ||
| I want to see it. | ||
| I want to see the big influencer fight. | ||
| You got to get me a VIP seat. | ||
| I'll sponsor the fight. | ||
| I'll pay money to put my logo on the ring or on the shorts or whatever. | ||
| But yeah, I'm totally down. | ||
| I think that's hype. | ||
| But good luck, man. | ||
| Good luck with your training. | ||
| Lance is kind of a badass. | ||
| I wouldn't want to be stepping in the ring with that guy anytime soon. | ||
| Because that guy is a badass. | ||
| Certified badass. | ||
| Nah, I like Lance. | ||
| I like Jackson. | ||
| I like Lance. | ||
| I'll sponsor them both. | ||
| And whoever wins, you know, may the best... May the best, uh, may the best non-Groiper win, I guess, but... | ||
| Yeah, I'm looking forward to it, man. | ||
| I'll be there. | ||
| Real Donald Trump says Kirk couldn't even attack Vosh when he pretty much admitted to being a pedophile. | ||
| So weak! | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I don't know why he didn't engage in that at all. | ||
| No ad homonyms, no nothing. | ||
| Winston says, Vosh is like a woman, he talks forever and says nothing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| FireEyezes says, the YouTube channel Politically Provoked is trying to reach out to you about a big debate with you and Destiny. | ||
| I know they've been very, very annoying about it, you know? | ||
| Because they talk to my assistant and they email me and they talk to us and then they super chat us and you know, I don't know, I guess it's just not happening fast enough. | ||
| to keep antagonizing somebody. | ||
| At some point, it's just antagonistic. | ||
| So, we're well aware they're interested in hosting the debate. | ||
| I'm perfectly aware of that. | ||
| They've sent it in the Super Chats. | ||
| They're in touch with my assistant. | ||
| They have all our contact information. | ||
| So, nobody needs to worry about it anymore. | ||
| Everybody has the information. | ||
| So, when we decide to make that happen, we're gonna make it happen, okay? | ||
| They lost contact. | ||
| If you got banned from Twitter, is there a way for them to contact you? | ||
| Yep, we're in touch. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| We're all good. | ||
| FortniteBurgerMan says, who do you think is more disingenuous? | ||
| Destiny or Vosh? | ||
| Definitely Vosh. | ||
| Because Destiny, at least, is willing to say things that are unpopular. | ||
| Destiny will say things that are anti-trans, or anti-BLM, or anti-leftist. | ||
| You know, Destiny's willing to say things that are going to get him cancelled by the internet left. | ||
| So for that, I think he's, you know, just on that fact alone, he's a little bit more sincere. | ||
| Vosh, I feel like, will just do and say anything. | ||
| But Destiny's not. | ||
| He doesn't debate in good faith either, but he's a little bit more honest. | ||
| Fireskull says he literally debated like how he does his tweets, just asking a stupid question and the thinking emoji. | ||
| Really makes you think, huh? | ||
| And then these like stupid, flimsy, rhetorical questions. | ||
| And then Vosh goes on a two-hour monologue. | ||
| So yeah, that's that's good. | ||
| Adolf Groiper says, debate PewDiePie. | ||
| Good idea. | ||
| Zoomer Guy says, me on my way to actualize Shadalay. | ||
| Yeah, me too. | ||
| Fat Gay Retard says, I see a fat man with poor facial hair walking out of Best Buy with a big TV feeling like a real king. | ||
| Some academic told you that this is economic freedom and economic freedom is freedom. | ||
| Feel the freedom and watch shows in 4k. | ||
| Your Twitter was gold. | ||
| something I tweeted that sounds familiar I see a fat man with poor facial hair walking out of Best Buy with the big TV feeling like a real king so that's a little trite that's a little but it's true It's true. | ||
| I just wish I was on the debate, man. | ||
| I just wish I was in the arena, but they won't let me on. | ||
| And I tried. | ||
| After I got banned on Twitter, I tried to reach out to them. | ||
| I back-channeled and they literally were like, no, no, we're not gonna have him on because we His audience will be mean to us. | ||
| That's literally what they said. | ||
| Tim Pool said that if he had me on his show, then my audience would bully him. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So, there you have it. | |
| Ben says, from one Catholic to another, I wanted to ask you, what future do you see for our church following the Reduction and its believers? | ||
| Do you think we will die out, or do you think there will be a rebirth? | ||
| Well, we're never going to die out. | ||
| Because the church is eternal. | ||
| So, I mean, that's just not going to happen. | ||
| As to whether or not the church will become strong again, I mean, I don't know. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't know. | |
| We'll have to see. | ||
| I'm not really familiar with the prophecies, because there's different prophecies, and some say we're on our way out, and some say there's going to be another golden age of the church, you know, depending on, I think there's different outlooks on it. | ||
| But I honestly don't know. | ||
| I don't know what the trajectory looks like. | ||
| The future's very uncertain. | ||
| Gersh says, we need you moving the ball down the field for us. | ||
| Keep it up! | ||
| Thank you, Nick! | ||
| Yeah, I will, man. | ||
| I'm here holding down the fort. | ||
| That's what I'm good at. | ||
| Beardson Smith says, Why in the world am I watching two boneheads talking with a fat gay retard? | ||
| Oh yeah, because a handsome genius is talking over it. | ||
| Keep up the great work, King. | ||
| Without you, politics wouldn't be worth it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
True! | |
| True. | ||
| And thank you. | ||
| I appreciate when it's blood sports, when it's confrontation. | ||
| But that was just that was miserable Overman says this debate which was really an interview for Vosh made me yearn for the old days where we got those intense Nick debates Really makes you appreciate those old streams. | ||
| Yes, it does. | ||
| Yeah, I Nobody can do it like me. | ||
| That's a fact. | ||
| Yeah, I mean that was definitely an inflection point for sure. | ||
| World War I was really the downfall of the dominance of traditional society with the collapse of the last major traditional European monarchies. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, that was definitely an inflection point for sure. | ||
| I mean, that ended the balance of powers, period of peace. | ||
| And you could say that that was the last gasp of the conservative, monarchical powers in Europe, the last gasp of the kingdoms, the triumph of republics and democracies and all of that, industrialization and so on. | ||
| But really, I mean, that was underway for the last century. | ||
| You know, for the last two centuries, really. | ||
| So, um... So I don't know that that was necessarily the downfall. | ||
| It was maybe the nail in the coffin, you might say. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But, it had been a long time coming. | |
| Overmans has also made a great play. | ||
| Do you consider Kirk of that group? | ||
| I always considered him to still be libertarian since he refuses to see the country as his family, unlike Tucker. | ||
| Well, Tucker doesn't either. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Tucker sees it in an analogous way as his family, with the state as the father, but he doesn't see the country as organic, as a community or a nation, because he thinks it's all about voting and buying and selling. | ||
| So, you know, this working class populism, that's a point I'm trying to make. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's not a far cry from libertarianism. | |
| Because it's concerned with the same thing. | ||
| You know, it's bound up in the same thing, which is producing and consuming. | ||
| Because class is an economic identity, so it's an economic identitarianism. | ||
| You know, in the same way that libertarianism is preoccupied with class and economic freedom and all of that. | ||
| You know, populist nationalism is concerned with class and economic well-being and all of that. | ||
| It's just more nationalistic, but it's ultimately the same thing. | ||
| Big Nigga says going to Chicago tomorrow anything cool to do besides eat food and big metal bean? | ||
| Yeah you should go on one of the boat tours if you want to go on a tour of Lake Michigan or the Chicago River those are really fun but it's a food city you can't you really can't skip out on the food the food is what you want to do you want to get an Italian beef sandwich you want to get a Chicago hot dog You can get the deep dish, but that's really kind of a tourist thing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But you should get pizza while you're here. | |
| And you really can't go wrong, but the Italian stuff, that's kind of, those are the winners. | ||
| But yeah, I mean, you could go to Navy Pier. | ||
| You could do touristy type stuff. | ||
| You could go to the neighborhoods. | ||
| Go to the Lincoln Park Zoo. | ||
| Go to the Brookfield Zoo. | ||
| Go to Michigan Avenue. | ||
| I really like the boat tours. | ||
| That's probably my favorite thing to do downtown. | ||
| I think that's my favorite tourist type thing is on a nice summer day. | ||
| That's probably my favorite. | ||
| Spinefish says, I'm not trying to impress you by showing that I know Esoteric Kanye songs. | ||
| I just like hearing you talk about the music. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Yeah, I like that song. | ||
| It's a good song. | ||
| I don't really have much to say about it other than that, other than I like it. | ||
| I haven't listened to it in a while because I don't have it on my Spotify. | ||
| I don't like that most of it is in Japanese because I can't rap with it. | ||
| There's really only one verse that you can really even enjoy. | ||
| The production is very good of course and the lyrics are really good on that song. | ||
| I don't know why more people don't like it. | ||
| Probably because it's mostly foreign language but that's a good one. | ||
| Fart Patrol says your analysis of Vaporwave and 2015-16 hit hard. | ||
| Thanks for being a genius, Nick. | ||
| Yeah, you're welcome. | ||
| You're welcome, of course. | ||
| I'm glad that resonates. | ||
| Aue Victoria says communism has taken over the West and the only cure to communism is fascism. | ||
| Okay, disavow. | ||
| It has been made very clear that no other ideology can save us. | ||
| No, it's been made clear that no ideology can save us. | ||
| What a What a misunderstanding. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, wrong. | |
| No ideology can save us. | ||
| Not no other. | ||
| No. | ||
| Did fascism save us? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Last I checked, the answer is no. | |
| So ideology will not save us, unfortunately. | ||
| Robert Buchanan says, was watching the White Shirt. | ||
| Well thank you for the big super chat. | ||
| Big shout out in 07's chat for Robert Buchanan. | ||
| I appreciate Yeah, man, it was brutal. | ||
| But I committed to it, and I finished it, okay? | ||
| Josh saying I want to influence children? | ||
| That nigga's sus. | ||
| No, I didn't catch that. | ||
| Robert Montgomery says, did you ever get the crucifix I sent you? | ||
| I think so. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I believe I did. | |
| I have it up there on my shelf, actually. | ||
| Thank you for that. | ||
| I don't know if I... I have all this fan mail I still have to respond to, so I don't know if that's in my pile or not. | ||
| But if I don't get back to you, I do appreciate it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| It was very nice. | ||
| Kansas Zoomers says, The debate may have been terrible, but at least I got to spend the evening watching America First, my favorite internet program, starring Nick Fuentes, who is my favorite host and my friend. | ||
| Well, thanks a lot. | ||
| You're my friend, too. | ||
| Adolf Gruyper says FGR should be changed to NGR. | ||
| Nasty gay retard. | ||
| I think that's better. | ||
| Joe Miller says, hey Nick, can you give me access to archive vids? | ||
| I gave you $10 in entropy. | ||
| Uh, no. | ||
| You have to subscribe. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So, that's not really how that works. | |
| I mean, I don't know. | ||
| You spend the $10 to get the super chat. | ||
| Now I gotta go in, now I gotta go in. | ||
| I love that. | ||
| I'm customer support now. | ||
| If you get a ticket on the website, maybe someone can help you with that. | ||
| Jeff says, did you wreck, smug, leftist teachers in school and college? | ||
| Not really. | ||
| I was kind of non-confrontational towards teachers. | ||
| I didn't want to get kicked out of school. | ||
| I was a little bit when I was younger, like when I was 15. | ||
| Over time, I just wanted to get along more. | ||
| bombastic and confrontational I don't like to bring all the attention on me I don't like to be that guy you know that's like gonna fight with the teacher I mean I'll if I have something to say and in the appropriate forum I'll speak my mind you know but I'm not one of these guys that's like so autistic like any mention of politics turns into a blood sports you know what I mean because some people are like that I've never been like that | ||
| I kind of, uh, if it's an appropriate time, I'll offer my opinion and we'll debate, but I'm, um, I'm not one of these people that's, like, looking, looking everywhere to, uh, to getting, uh, getting, uh, scrap. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh, even taking notes. | |
| Your critique of his debate performance was spot on. | ||
| Well, hey, 07's in chat. | ||
| Thank you for the big super chat. | ||
| Big shout out, friend. | ||
| I appreciate it. | ||
| And, uh, yes. | ||
| No, they all should be taking notes. | ||
| I mean, the whole populist ink, that whole crowd, they are. | ||
| I mean, they literally are. | ||
| I can't tell you how many people. | ||
| I literally can't tell you because I don't even know that they know. | ||
| But, people literally watch my show, steal all my talking points, and then go and republish them, and then say, oh, you can't hang out with Nick Fuentes. | ||
| But they all watch my show, and they all steal my stuff. | ||
| Happens all the time. | ||
| You know, I see, how many times I see my takes on Twitter, like, almost verbatim, People that don't want to hang out with me. | ||
| You know, or feel like they can't. | ||
| So, it's very funny. | ||
| So, they are taking notes. | ||
| That's a funny thing. | ||
| They just don't get it. | ||
| They just don't get it. | ||
| But hey, thank you for the big super chat. | ||
| I appreciate it. | ||
| Friend, big shout out. | ||
| out. | ||
| 07 is a chat for trolls. | ||
| Yeah, I thought that was pretty good. | ||
| Anon says sorry it came too late. | ||
| Here's some money. | ||
| Thanks. | ||
| Greenblatt says, Hey man, one big white pill was seeing Nick Fuentes on. | ||
| You have nothing left to be banned from? | ||
| Yeah, definitely. | ||
| Parker says, Hey Nick, hope you're having a good night. | ||
| Thanks. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, I'm having a good night. | |
| Rolled says, Local Groyper here. | ||
| I saw Kirk is having a dinner fundraiser. | ||
| ...fundraiser event in the northwest suburbs on August 16th. | ||
| On Facebook, it only has 11 RSVPs. | ||
| What a joke. | ||
| If it was you, there would be 10 times as many. | ||
| That would be funny. | ||
| What if I went to it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'd be like, listen man, you know that whole RIPERWAR thing? | |
| Let's just put our differences aside. | ||
| You gotta work on some things. | ||
| True, though. | ||
| I mean, literally true, but... Yeah, I mean, are you gonna go check it out? | ||
| That would be funny if we had some Groipers go. | ||
| Kai Clips says, Hey Nick, I went on a date today and it actually went well. | ||
| Time to tell her it isn't working out. | ||
| Dating is so boring, too. | ||
| Why do people do this? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Nigga. | |
| This guy's gonna come in and... I'm an inse- But I'm relatable like you, too. | ||
| yeah we we are not the same sorry you cannot relate you cannot relate i am an incel so you know congratulations on your date dude and he's gonna come up and say well oh it's boring and i don't even want to go on a date now okay nigga Well, I'm glad it went well. | ||
| No, you should stick with her, man. | ||
| You love dating. | ||
| Fake cell, you'll go out and have a date. | ||
| Have a date, talk about cute girls, and all the Mormons are so cute, and... Hi! | ||
| I love you so much. | ||
| Hi, let me get that for you. | ||
| Let me get... Darling date. | ||
| I keep dropping my mouse. | ||
| Mouse. | ||
| Just own it, dude. | ||
| Just own it. | ||
| Just own it. | ||
| I'm so tired of the fakers, the fakes, and the frauds, and the lies from these fake cells. | ||
| You know, Kai Klipsch's in the gym, and he's got all these muscles, and he's going on dates, and he comes in the live chat and says, hey, I went on a date, but you know, I'm probably going to break up. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Anyway. | |
| Yeah, well, congratulations. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Man, I love that. | |
| Why don't you go and tell everybody about it? | ||
| What was that old super chat from like a year ago? | ||
| What the hell was it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Somebody was... I'm smitten and I want to tell everyone about it! | |
| Something like that. | ||
| I'm glad your date went well. | ||
| How did it go? | ||
| What did she order? | ||
| What did she talk about? | ||
| Was that really nice? | ||
| Do you think you like her? | ||
| Do you have feelings for her? | ||
| Isn't she just so sweet? | ||
| Does her heart, does she make your heart flutter? | ||
| Oh my gosh! | ||
| Congratulations, King! | ||
| Oh my gosh! | ||
| Congratulations on your date, Fake Sel. | ||
| Elliot Rodger would have hated you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Congratulations on your hard time. | |
| I'm just busting your balls, buddy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, congrats on the No! | |
| Pursue it! | ||
| Pursue it! | ||
| Listen! | ||
| Listen, I'm abnormal. | ||
| Don't listen to me. | ||
| I'm a total eccentric, antisocial weirdo, okay? | ||
| So don't take my advice. | ||
| I'm bitter and, you know, that's just how it is when you're a truly gifted individual like me. | ||
| It's just not easy to get along. | ||
| So don't listen to me. | ||
| Don't let me make you feel bad. | ||
| Go out, enjoy your date. | ||
| It's going on a date. | ||
| You're licking the same ice cream cone and you're holding hands. | ||
| That's really awesome. | ||
| Good for you. | ||
| Don't let me bring you down, King. | ||
| I'm all the way out there. | ||
| So don't let me ruin your date, buddy. | ||
| But congratulations. | ||
| I do. | ||
| I hope it went well. | ||
| They went to the ice cream parlor and they were high-fiving. | ||
| What do people do on dates? | ||
| I think I've been on like two dates in my whole life. | ||
| Arguably three. | ||
| What do you do? | ||
| Do you like... Ha ha! | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good job! | |
| We did it! | ||
| What do you high five? | ||
|
unidentified
|
What do you... Hip or something? | |
| Shake hands? | ||
| Knuckle touch? | ||
| How does that go? | ||
| What do you even talk about on a date? | ||
| What do you even talk about? | ||
| Do you have to... Do you have to be like bantering the whole time? | ||
| Or can you just be real? | ||
| Can you just act like a person? | ||
| Or do you have to be like, Hey, it's a sexy lady. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And that, uh, you know, I, cause that kind of stuff just irritates me. | |
| The thought of doing that is just so irritating to me. | ||
| Everyone's calling me a fake self. | ||
| Cause of the high five. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| They know that's the, that's the one that drives them crazy. | ||
| Well, one of them was a delegate dance at Model UN. | ||
| Um, one of them was before prom. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And... Yeah, then arguably there's a third one. | |
| Arguably there's a third one somewhere in there, without getting totally specific. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But, um... | |
| But yeah, so I don't know. | ||
| So I don't know. | ||
| I think I'm just gonna go for like an arranged marriage. | ||
| Something more like that. | ||
| I think Steve Franson is just gonna pick one for me. | ||
| He'll just assemble a lineup. | ||
| It'll be like in a Bronx Tale and I'll just pick from the lineup. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Y'all have to be naked. | |
| No, I'm kidding. | ||
| Kidding! | ||
| But they'd be in a lineup. | ||
| up you know I'd okay turn around and uh you know I'd be like no kidding kidding But yeah, I mean, I think, I think I'm gonna sort of pick, pick one out of a lineup. | ||
| I think that's sort of more my style. | ||
| And then we'll make it work. | ||
| You know, we'll just sort of make it work. | ||
| Because I don't know, I think I'm a little too abrasive for anyone to sort of, like, fall in love. | ||
| I just, I don't think that's gonna happen. | ||
| So I think we're just going to, it's just sort of going to be like, let's, let's like, so all of this is to say, congrats on your date, King. | ||
| I hope it went really well. | ||
| Yeah, we'll have to make one of those. | ||
| So you're gonna give Tim Pool a wedgie? | ||
| Yeah, we'll have to make one of those. | ||
| George Mountain says, I'm going to give Tim Pool a wedgie for being such a dork. | ||
| We want Nick. | ||
| So you're going to give Tim Pool a wedgie? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Where was I? | |
| Mr. Lennon says, what do you think of this idea of redirecting sexual energy and anger in a creative output? | ||
| I think that's, to say that out loud, I think it's extremely gay and retarded. | ||
| Shaw's Beast says, if Kirk had half a brain, he would have brought up examples such as J&J. | ||
| Yeah, I guess he could have said that. | ||
| John Freeman says, Ayo, Captain Jack, bring me back to the railroad track. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Anglo-Asian says are you planning on reacting to loner boxes the banning of Nick Fuentes? | ||
| I wasn't planning on it because I don't know what that is someone brought it up earlier but that's still within the show so I haven't had time to think about it. | ||
| Kai Clips is not calling myself an incel anymore don't want to be stolen valor. | ||
| Well I appreciate I appreciate that you respect our sacrifice so for that reason you know you're definitely okay. | ||
| Some people are just shamelessly They think it's a big joke. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Kidding! | |
| Kidding, of course. | ||
| That's a joke. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But it is hilarious. | |
| People appropriating incel culture. | ||
| People slipping back into simping. | ||
| there's no kidding kidding of course that's a joke but um but it is hilarious vitus says which is the worst behavioral issue right now people appropriating incel culture people slipping back into simping definitely the simping rolled from ac says i'm not going to kirk since i don't I only give donations to you, Vince and Gab. | ||
| Andrew Torp and Gab team deserve more credit for his work. | ||
| And then he linked me to the event. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Well, thanks. | ||
| Tom AF says, what do you mean three dates? | ||
| Please say that. | ||
| How is that fake sell? | ||
| So, you know, on one of them, The girl said I reminded her of her dad, and in another one, the dad was acting really weird, and that was all around just a weird day. | ||
| Anyway, I don't want to talk about it. | ||
| I don't want to get into it, but... Yeah, needless to say, needless to say, it was like anything else. | ||
| Like Eggman, like Elliot, or any other, really. | ||
| Kai Eclipse says, Hey, no hard feelings, big guy. | ||
| It can take a little verbal thrashing, but you... But I'm still definitely not having sex. | ||
| No chance I'm... I'm calling myself Volcell though. | ||
| Yeah, please don't say that. | ||
| Somehow even worse. | ||
| But rock on. | ||
| Fizzbump on not having sex. | ||
| I'm with you on that one. | ||
| Never. | ||
| I don't think it's ever gonna happen. | ||
| And you know what? | ||
| And that's a good thing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm kidding. | |
| Of course, I'll have to have sex with my wife so that I can have a male heir. | ||
| But, you know, of course that's gonna come later. | ||
| Michael Smith says, that debate was so boring I literally fell asleep for a minute at one point. | ||
| It was cool meeting you at the rally last year in Atlanta, by the way. | ||
| Yeah, great meeting you too. | ||
| And I agree, the debate was boring. | ||
| Is that the last Super Chat? | ||
| I think that's the last one. | ||
| Okay! | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right! | |
| That's gonna do it for me tonight. | ||
| That is my last Super Chat. | ||
| This mouse cord is too long. | ||
|
unidentified
|
My foot keeps getting stuck under it. | |
| That is so annoying. | ||
| Is there any way I can pull it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, there we go. | |
| Geez, keep kicking the mouse, you know? | ||
| Because the mouse cord hangs, like, under the tray, and I keep, like, catching it on my ankle. | ||
| It's really annoying. | ||
| Alright, anyway. | ||
| That's gonna do it for me. | ||
| On the show tonight, but thanks for watching. | ||
| Same place. | ||
| Remember, I'm on the air. | ||
| Wait, wait, hang on. | ||
| Follow me on Gavin Telegram. | ||
| Links are down below. | ||
| And I'm on the air Monday through Friday, 8 p.m. | ||
| Central, 9 p.m. | ||
| Eastern Standard Time on AmericaFirst.live and Rumble. | ||
| Thanks for watching. | ||
| And I'm sorry that we all had to go through that, but we did it together. | ||
| Thanks to our Super Chatters subscribers, everybody that watches the show. | ||
| We love you. | ||
| I'll see you tomorrow. | ||
| Until then, have a great rest of your evening. | ||
|
unidentified
|
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| Have a great | ||
| day. Have | ||
| a great day. | ||
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| Have a great day. | ||
| We're good. |
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