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Aug. 5, 2018 - No Agenda

02:55:50

1057: Heckler's Veto

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	Adam Curry, Chauncey Dvorak.
	And Sunday, August 5th, 2018, this is your award-winning Kimbo Nation Media Assassination, Episode 1057.
	This is No Agenda.
	Practicing the art of counter-trolling and broadcasting live from the capital of the Drone Star State here in downtown Austin Tejas in the Cludio in the morning, everybody.
	I'm Adam Curry.
	And from northern Silicon Valley where I'm sitting here pondering the opposite of binge, I'm John C. DeVore.
	It's Crackpot and Buzzkill in the morning.
	Uh, cringe?
	Binge?
	No.
	Cringe wouldn't be the opposite.
	No, I just...
	I liked it rhyming.
	Uh...
	Binge is, uh...
	I don't know.
	What is the opposite?
	There is no opposite of binge.
	Come on.
	Purge.
	Binge and purge.
	Purge is not the opposite of binge.
	Okay.
	I mean, purge is a result of binge.
	Savor?
	Savor?
	That wouldn't be the opposite.
	I don't know what that would be.
	But more importantly, why do you contemplate this?
	Because I've now decided that I hate the word binge.
	The reason is because I get this thing that I got on the Thrill List, a spam list.
	Oh, I unsubscribed from the Thrill List long ago.
	The Thrill List says, this is the TV show you should binge on tonight.
	I don't want to binge on a TV show.
	I don't want to binge on anything.
	It's not a healthy thing to do.
	And what does it become in the popular lexicon?
	Oh, binged.
	He binged on TV. He binged.
	It seems to me that going to the movie theater and sitting there, spending 25 bucks and sitting there for two hours, that is binge enough.
	I saw Mission Impossible, binged on that in the theater.
	Oh, that must have been great.
	In IMAX, yeah, it was good.
	It was quite good.
	I don't know.
	The franchise is still kind of alive.
	You know, it's just as predictable as James Bond.
	But, you know, I don't know.
	It was okay.
	Was it better than the last one?
	Oh, no.
	That was horrible.
	But with the new hearing aids in the IMAX? Oh, my God.
	That was...
	Except at one point, the people behind me opened up a bag of chips.
	ships.
	It was like, it kind of picked up on the rear facing microphones.
	Get behind curry and eat popcorn.
	With the minute he reaches for his ear to adjust the volume, you know you've succeeded.
	Exactly.
	So is there any political messaging or anything?
	Ah, okay, no.
	No, no, no.
	Just a lot of unbelievable, totally incredible, illogical helicopter flying, but okay, I'll tell you.
	I'll take it.
	Yeah, so the pilot got shot and he slumped over and we'll just drag him out and then jump in the seat and everything's fine.
	Steady as she goes, Tom.
	Sure.
	Yeah.
	Or we'll survive the spiraling crash.
	Okay.
	It doesn't matter.
	It was fun.
	I liked it.
	It was pretty good.
	Yeah, I'm looking forward to maybe seeing it eventually.
	Yeah, but no binging.
	No binging on it.
	Binge.
	Binge.
	It's actually an ugly word, by the way.
	It's an ugly word.
	Don't you think?
	Binge.
	Binge.
	It's terrible.
	It doesn't bother me that much.
	You should be bothered by it.
	I don't know.
	I don't understand you.
	You're a very tolerant person, apparently.
	Yes.
	Unlike Sarah Young.
	You can put up with binge.
	Unlike Sarah Young of the New York Times, we might as well handle her right away, the top of the show, since everybody is talking about this.
	You wrote about it in the newsletter.
	I did.
	I put kind of a breakdown of it.
	Yeah.
	She's just a, you know, I don't, I mean, it's just, I don't know how she got so far as she did so quickly.
	I do.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	That's not that, that's not that hard.
	Well, remember, she's in technology journalism, which, by the way, you know, everyone's been passing around this one clip, which I think Jimmy Woods tweeted.
	See, when you know him, you say Jimmy.
	Jimmy.
	Jimmy Woods tweeted around.
	I don't want to interrupt you, but we had some guy who was one of our...
	We have a lot of people on Twitter that say, hey, you should listen to No Agenda Show, listen to No Agenda Show.
	And this one guy who he's trying to convince to listen to the show, he says...
	I see that one of the two partners, referring to me, likes James, retweeted a James Woods tweet.
	Is this some horrible thing to do?
	You're Bane!
	You're shunned!
	Shame!
	Shame!
	That's what it is.
	It's shameful to retweet him.
	If they could see you even looking at his tweets.
	And meanwhile, you call him Jimmy.
	Yeah, because he's Jimmy.
	Well, okay, so there's one speech that is fully available from her.
	Now, she's a lawyer.
	You know, she went to Harvard Law School, or HLS, as we say.
	And she did this speech at Harvard Law School, and the only truly egregious thing that could be pulled from that full-hour speech is the one that Jimmy tweeted.
	Here it is.
	Everything is implicitly organized around how men see the world.
	And not just men, how white men see the world.
	And this is a problem.
	This is why so many things suck.
	Now, so you ask actually a really good question.
	It's like, how did she get that job?
	Why is she a tech journalist at The Verge and now on the New York Times editorial board?
	Well, first of all, she is doing tech journalism exactly the way it should be done.
	Which is subjective, you know, it's just, the internet is Google, email is Gmail, the only place to voice your opinion is social networks, and it's on fire, and it's on fire.
	And she is a shitty speaker, really, I mean, you hear this, there are tech journalists, film girl is better than this, I'm telling you.
	Ha ha.
	There's a blast from the past.
	Wow.
	Yeah.
	So, but I did learn a few things.
	Mainly, I just got into her head.
	And, you know, this is a part that I think we'll catch it later on.
	This is a part of kind of like, it started with the statues.
	It's the colonial ancestors who we today, as white men, have to suffer for.
	Because our colonial ancestors were horrible, horrible white men.
	Slave owners, they mistreated women, whatever they did.
	It was horrible.
	They ruined everything.
	It all sucks because of the white man.
	And that's part of what she is trying to communicate, is that, you know, she comes from kind of a Gamergate background.
	And I'm going to play a clip, which we can stop at any time, because she's one of these speakers, and you'll notice it almost right away, who never really makes a good point or a punchline.
	It's just like, well, so that's why that's that way.
	Yeah.
	She can't, she's a horrible presenter.
	It's absolutely no good.
	And I don't know about her writing, but nothing groundbreaking as far as I can tell.
	But I learned something about, what is it called?
	It's called the, something about the First Amendment.
	The Heckler's Veto.
	Have you ever heard of the Heckler's Veto?
	I know.
	Well, this apparently is...
	Remember, she's a lawyer.
	This is something in First Amendment law.
	So I'm going to play this and we'll just let it go until we either stop or are sick of her.
	And this wasn't new, but suddenly there was more and more attention to it.
	And I think that has, in large part...
	It's because of Twitter.
	It's because Twitter is open, and it's because we can see it happen in real time ourselves.
	It is no longer a subjective experience.
	It is open, objective, and available to the public for everyone to see.
	And it's horrifying.
	And the discourse started out as, this is free speech versus women.
	And this was pretty upsetting to me.
	I was...
	You know, coming from a place where I believed in a free and open internet, I did not think that...
	By the way, her idea of a free and open internet, it has nothing to do with the way you or I might think of it as the internet is a network and you can run any type of application on top of it.
	No, she means free, as in really free, just give me everything for free, and open, which means as long as Google runs it.
	That's her thinking if you watch her whole hour.
	Many of the proposed regulations coming out of these episodes were good.
	I didn't like the idea of people getting such tweets, even though I looked at the tweets and they were very upsetting to me.
	Okay, so we got that far.
	Yes?
	She's upset by looking at the tweets.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	And she's Roman.
	She's kind of rambling already.
	Yeah.
	There's something she said just a second ago that...
	It was semi-contradictory, or it didn't make any sense, but go on.
	We can stop a lot if you're looking for contradiction.
	I'll be stopping a lot if you're going to let me do that.
	Yeah, sure, of course, of course.
	I was here, I was working with Charlie on...
	The Internet and Society class.
	I was also at the Journal of Law and Gender.
	I was very involved in feminist issues and activism.
	And I felt like I was being told that my position was inconsistent.
	Because it's free speech versus women.
	Pick one side.
	No one wants to be on the side that's, well, I guess...
	Yeah, so what she's saying here is that with free speech and anybody can say anything, turns out the way she experienced it, the internet, whatever she thinks that is, is it was very hateful towards women.
	That's her point.
	The internet's a neutral network.
	No, it's the internet is hateful.
	Women get to lose.
	So, the more I thought about it though, there's a thing in First Amendment jurisprudence known as the heckler's veto, actually.
	And the heckler's veto is sort of this problem where if you yell at someone enough, it causes An issue where, oh, okay, I guess it's now legal to shut down the speech because it's just upsetting everyone way too much.
	It's like causing...
	It's fighting words now because it's causing people to fight against it or now that it's causing all of this violence to erupt.
	All right.
	So she is a Harvard Law student, a graduate.
	She's very nervous.
	And she cannot explain Heckler's veto for some reason.
	Yes?
	You had a comment?
	She's very nervous and she sounds like she doesn't know what she's talking about.
	She's rambling.
	She can't seem to focus.
	I didn't realize when I was reading some of her other tweets, the ones that are still available, most have been taken down.
	She makes these kind of poetic points if you look at her language as poetry.
	And now that I think about it, I was completely mistaken in that regard.
	I didn't mention this in the newsletter, but I was looking at some of these things because you throw a weird word in and thinking, well, that's interesting.
	I guess that's some sort of a poetic...
	No, it wasn't.
	She's just an idiot.
	Exactly.
	Allow me to read the heckler's veto from Wikipedia.
	In the free speech context, the heckler's veto is either of two situations in which a person who disagrees with a speaker's message is able to unilaterally trigger events that result in the speaker being silenced.
	In the strict legal sense, a heckler's veto occurs when the Speaker's right is curtailed or restricted by the government in order to prevent a reacting party's behavior.
	So an example, I think, in that case would be, you can't come and speak at Berkeley because people will go nuts.
	The common example is the termination of a speech or demonstration in the interest of maintaining the public peace based on the anticipated negative reaction of someone opposed to that speech or demonstration.
	In common parlance, the term is used to describe situations where hecklers or demonstrators silence a speaker without intervention of the law.
	In case law, the heckler's veto is mixed.
	Most findings say the acting party's actions cannot be preemptively stopped due to fear of heckling, so you can't do it before.
	But in the immediate face of violence, authorities can force the acting party to cease their action in order to satisfy the hecklers.
	The best-known case involving the heckler's veto is Feiner v.
	New York, handed down by the Supreme Court in 1951.
	Chief Justice Vinson, writing for the majority, held that police officers acted within their power in arresting a speaker if the arrest was, quote,"...motivated solely by a proper concern for the preservation of order and protection of general welfare." So in a way, I think what she's saying is we need regulation.
	I don't know how that's going to work, but okay.
	Let's continue.
	Because people are, it's just upsetting everyone way too much.
	It's like causing...
	And I'll give her that.
	I learned something.
	I had no idea what the heckler's veto was.
	I'd never heard of it before.
	You didn't learn anything from her.
	You just learned a new word.
	You're right.
	That's why I had to go look it up because I learned nothing from her.
	It's fighting words now because it's causing people to fight against it.
	Notice how she equates people twittering back and forth as fighting.
	Now that it's causing all of this violence to erupt, we're going to have to shut all this stuff down.
	And that's how I viewed harassment.
	Harassment was a heckler's veto.
	It wasn't the case that harassment was the speech that was under threat.
	It was the speech of women that was under threat.
	Because women were the ones who were being told to leave these social platforms, who were leaving these platforms, who were ceasing to speak, who were being silenced.
	Who clearly are just weak.
	I don't understand the problem.
	It's text.
	It's anonymous.
	And when we're talking about free speech for women, I mean, we're just talking about free speech.
	Obviously this is all well and good, and you...
	Did you understand what her conclusion was?
	She's so incoherent.
	I may say this is little more than a cute rhetorical trick to justify the suppression of speech, and I assure you that it is not.
	I have learned many cute rhetorical tricks from this institution, where many of the masters of cute rhetorical tricks reside, but there's actually more to this, and I am going to explain.
	Oh, okay.
	It goes back to the history of the internet and some largely today overlooked facts about internet infrastructure.
	This is what I call the theory of garbage.
	Ah, now she wrote, this is the book or the blog post.
	Is it a book?
	Is it an actual book?
	I think so.
	I've never seen it, but it's called the internet of garbage or something like that.
	Yeah, so I'll let her get into this a little bit.
	The theory of garbage is very simple.
	Simple.
	The internet is mostly garbage.
	Okay, and we're done.
	Just bear in mind in this context.
	At least you got an ISO out of this.
	Oh, I do need to cut that.
	Yes, cut it out.
	I need to cut that.
	Use it.
	The internet is mostly garbage.
	If she can make statements like this, then she clearly knows how big the internet is.
	I mean, you can't say anything about the percentage or how much unless you know what 100% is.
	Right.
	If you say it's mostly garbage, then you know all of the 51% has to be garbage, when in fact 51% plus is mostly...
	Netflix!
	No, yes, BitTorrent and Netflix.
	Yeah, it all depends.
	But she doesn't see it as data.
	She sees it as what's on Twitter.
	Yeah, or Google.
	Or Google.
	Well, there's more to that.
	So when I'm talking about garbage, I'm talking about things like spam.
	I'm talking about things like malware.
	And I want to include harassment.
	These are just things that we have come to accept aren't great.
	And there is certainly a...
	Hold on a second.
	Why didn't the New York Times just hire Al Sharpton?
	It would have been more entertaining, that's for sure.
	And I have to qualify before I even begin going into this.
	Look, spam is speech.
	Malware is speech.
	Like, code is speech.
	Harassment is speech.
	Nonetheless, this all belongs in a bucket where we know that something has to be done about it.
	I guess.
	It doesn't mean we have to put people in prison.
	It doesn't mean everything has to be deleted.
	But...
	See, and I can tell you where she's going with this because I saw the whole thing.
	What she's saying is harassment is no different from spam and malware, except the purists of the internet hate spam, hate malware.
	We have all kinds of institutions and laws and regulations.
	Remember, it's just code.
	It's just speech.
	It is exactly the same as harassment.
	So we should have harassment filters.
	And then she goes into this whole thing about server-side filters.
	And it's very convoluted, but I'll play it until we're done with her.
	There's an issue here.
	These things make the internet unusable.
	And I started thinking about this, actually, because I was having...
	There was a lot of this.
	I was thinking of this, actually.
	I was thinking of this, actually.
	You know, the funny thing is it makes the internet unusable, of course, is like, how do people watch Netflix if the internet's unusable?
	Seems pretty usable to me.
	How do people do anything?
	I mean, there's a lot more going on than what she's talking about.
	She's talking about a small, small niche of the internet that's about her.
	Twitter.
	Twitter.
	That's it.
	Twitter.
	She's talking about Twitter.
	It doesn't mean we have to put people in prison.
	It doesn't mean everything has to be deleted.
	But...
	There's an issue here.
	These things make the internet unusable.
	No, it's not true.
	And I started thinking about this, actually, because I was having dinner with these older attorneys who had been working with internet law for a long time, and they went, oh man, remember when people were really upset about Server-side filtering, spam filtering.
	I'm like, that was before my time.
	What happened there?
	It was last week.
	And they basically spun out this story that I thought was incredible.
	I will leave out names.
	But basically around this era.
	Why?
	In the earlier 2000s, you had, you know, people who are typically, you know, free speech wing of the free speech party.
	Like, you know, these are the kinds of people who...
	Yeah, she just goes on and never gets to the point and we don't have to listen anymore.
	The free speech party.
	Yeah.
	So her whole...
	And that's why she's perfect as a journal, a journo, tech journal for The Verge, is because all she thinks about is the internet is Twitter.
	And that's where her garbage is.
	It would have been more accurate if she said Twitter is garbage, although I vehemently disagree, but that would have been more accurate.
	So she's not that great.
	She's not a deep thinker.
	She doesn't have any...
	I mean, to me, it doesn't seem like any really deep thoughts or anything spectacular.
	I think there's lots of other people that could be on the New York Times editorial board.
	For instance, us.
	Yeah.
	If you're going to get controversial people in...
	Well, it is pretty weird.
	I mean, you have to wonder how she got there in the first place.
	I mean, there's something.
	It's got to be Graft or something.
	Somebody was there, likes her, wants to date her maybe, even though it has to be a woman.
	I don't know.
	No, I can see the editorial.
	I only ran it in the newsletter in an essay, kind of a quasi-essay, a picture essay.
	Because it kept coming up in the damn Twitter feeds.
	And then Jimmy blasted her for something.
	So I had to take notice.
	Right.
	But I think the most interesting thing about her announcement and all of her tweets is, you know, the lack of...
	Who was it?
	Who was the black conservative woman?
	I forget her name now.
	There's a bunch of them.
	Well, anyway, one of these famous ones.
	There's one real outspoken one, I think.
	Yeah, that's the one.
	Heel, I think, or something.
	No.
	She...
	Yeah, Candace Owens.
	Thank you, Trollroll.
	Owens, yes.
	That's right.
	Candace Owens.
	And she took the exact same tweets from Sarah Young, and she replaced the word white with Jew, and Twitter banned her for 12 hours until I guess they figured it out.
	Shut up.
	Because you know exactly how that goes.
	Some algo might pick something up.
	It goes to some dude in Bangladesh.
	Like, oh, this is against the rules.
	Boom.
	Done.
	I actually didn't know that, but it makes nothing but sense.
	Of course.
	Of course.
	But the lack of actually any even real conversation about that anywhere but in the Internet of Garbage, IOG. I kind of do like that term.
	Just for Twitter.
	Yeah, that's where everything's being discussed.
	But have you heard any meaningful or any conversation?
	It seems like a third rail.
	M5M doesn't want to touch it.
	No, M5M has refused to discuss it.
	The New York Times passed it off as, well, you know, there's a reason for it.
	Counter-trolling, which I've never heard of.
	Yeah, counter-trolling.
	Never heard of that.
	And so they think it's fine.
	Well, you made a journalistic point in the newsletter that I liked.
	Which was if you, in particular from an outfit such as the New York Times, and I don't know if they've, have they written an actual op-ed about it or is it just that one statement they released?
	No, there was a memo.
	A memo.
	Well, there should be a number of op-eds, I feel, if that's their choice.
	I lost my train of thought.
	Well, my point that I was making was if you're going to say that these are, it was The Verge.
	The Verge says they're going to take her out of context.
	She's taking Take it out of context.
	Take it out of context.
	And my point...
	That's exactly the way it sounded when I read it, too.
	My point was, apparently, it's the only voice I have, according to the family.
	It works.
	Mimi works at The Verge?
	The point I made, which you were going to bring up, and I'll steal it from you, was that if you're going to say that as a...
	Op-ed writer, journalist, whatever you're going to do, you say, well, it was taken out of context.
	You have to provide, as part of the rules of the road, you have to provide an example of how it was taken out of context.
	In other words, you have to put it in context to show us how it was taken out of context.
	And people do that all the time.
	They say, look at this.
	They do it with Trump.
	They say, Trump's being, he said this, he didn't say that.
	He said this, he didn't say that.
	Because he said it after he said this.
	So it was obviously a joke.
	Yeah.
	So you put it in context.
	But no, nobody put it in context.
	I started looking at her tweets.
	She's out of context constantly.
	She's just rambling.
	And why doesn't the New York Times write something about that?
	It seems to me like that would be appropriate and might be enlightening.
	I don't know.
	Maybe there's a take on it you and I haven't figured out yet.
	A. Can't be done.
	Can't be done.
	Okay.
	B. And they've already made the decision and they're going to stick to it because they feel that now they got an Asian female lesbian...
	Wait.
	Three boxes ticked.
	Three boxes ticked?
	They're not getting rid of her because it's going to look like they hate Asians.
	It looks like they hate women, which is half the audience, and it looks like they can't do it.
	They cannot.
	Once they put her in there, they can't get rid of her.
	It's like, oh, oops.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	There you have it.
	So she can hate whites and hate men and hate whatever she hates, and that's just the way it goes.
	Now, will she be writing for the New York Times as well?
	No, she's just on the editorial.
	She's one of the people that have these meetings.
	Well, we should talk more about this.
	I think we haven't had enough stories about how designers work with the color white.
	Don't you think there's too much white being shown in?
	Besides that, it doesn't photograph well.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	It's an advisory board.
	Yeah.
	And of course, there's no byline.
	So who knows who's writing that?
	It's probably a collection.
	The funny thing was I looked, you know, I tried to, she was with the Women's Law Journal, which became the gender something or other journal at Harvard, which was a student publication.
	And I looked her up in the database because you can do that.
	And she never wrote anything for me.
	She was an editor who helped somebody in one of the things.
	She wasn't even that, Much of a hotshot there.
	It was kind of a third-tier student publication.
	No offense to people that worked there, but it's not the Harvard Law Journal or anything big.
	It's not the Crimson.
	It's not the Crimson.
	Now, where she's coming from, and I said that in my setup, is ancestral problems.
	You know, men have been running society.
	It's the patriarchy.
	It's toxic masculinity.
	You know, I've never heard any of this in the 60s, which is when, by the way, the SCUM manifesto was written that she refers to.
	Yeah, tell us about, because that's an acronym that I was not familiar with.
	Yes, the SCUM manifesto came out in the late 60s.
	And there was a similar, very similar movement to what's going on now.
	It was during the Vietnam War.
	And this woman, I think, I can't remember her name.
	Valerie...
	You're looking up Scum Manifesto.
	Yeah, Valerie Solanas?
	It could be.
	Anyway, she wrote this Scum Manifesto, which was the Society for Cutting Up Men.
	And it was just kind of what this...
	And Sarah Young is all about, you know, kill men.
	They suck.
	They're no good.
	They don't help me.
	And they're taking over and they're telling us what to do.
	And it was just, you know, I never bought a copy.
	I should have, though, because it seems like it's now a collector's item.
	So, the term scum appeared on the cover of the first edition of Olympia Press as scum and was said to stand for Society for Cutting Up Men, but she objected, apparently, insisting that was not an acronym, although the expanded term appeared in the Village Voice ad she had written in 1967.
	So, okay.
	Hey, she sounds just like Sarah Young.
	Yeah, inconsistent.
	Liar.
	Liar.
	Yeah, the Scum Manifesto, I'd never heard of this, argues that men have ruined the world and that it is up to women to fix it.
	Well, I'm going to be reading this.
	Yeah, I mean, and put it right next to my Unabomber Manifesto.
	Yeah, it might be right up there with that quality work.
	Well, I'm not so sure, but...
	I don't think so either.
	Okay, so how did that end?
	I mean, did it end or did it just kind of fade away?
	Fizzled.
	Fizzled.
	And then...
	Yeah.
	What's Watergate happening?
	So is this the resurgence since she's citing it specifically?
	Is this the resurgence of the scum movement?
	There was no movement.
	That's the joke of it.
	There's no movement going on now.
	It's a bunch of...
	People on Twitter.
	It's a bunch of people...
	There's a word I can't think of, but it has to do with a bunch of people that are irked with the way things are, because they're not part of it.
	You'll never hear from her once she gets in that editorial board, by the way.
	She's going to fade fast.
	Or they'll kick her off.
	But it's people that feel marginalized, and I should be the boss, I should be the boss.
	Noodle boy?
	And...
	It just fades out because it's just like at some point people get jobs.
	And then they're like, ah shit, I got a job, I got rent, like I have no time.
	I got a rent, oh man, the rent's too high.
	Well, let's listen to the modern day version of who's to blame for everything.
	And this was an argument between Angela Rye, who is now I think pretty much a fixture on CNN, former, I think she was a gopher at the Black Caucus.
	She has some fancy name, like assistant something to the assistant, but, you know, intern.
	I think she was pretty low-level there.
	With the Cuomo kid, and I forget who the Republican guy is.
	He's the one with the vajayjay mouth, with that beard, like a ring beard.
	It's really disgusting to look at.
	I don't watch the network.
	It's really poor.
	You don't have to.
	It's terrible, by the way.
	They have these people, and they promote them, and they wonder why their ratings are done.
	They're annoying.
	Here she is breaking it down for us in a nice little nutshell as to who's really the problem with ICE. Come on, man.
	You guys know that this policy is ass backwards.
	Plain and simple.
	You guys know this policy is inhumane.
	Plain and simple.
	Like, if you just take yourselves out of it for just a moment, take off the lenses of bigotry for just a moment, and imagine if this was happening to kids...
	Yes, we are.
	I'm calling this process, this procedure, it's absolutely based on bigotry and fear-mongering.
	If you don't understand that your president announced his campaign by talking about digital law to keep your president...
	No, not mine.
	Not mine.
	I will never claim a bigot.
	Ever.
	Ever.
	Now, let me just finish because I know you're off on a red herring.
	I know you're off on a red hearing because you're losing the debate.
	So let me just finish this point for you.
	He started his campaign.
	You're rude.
	Come on, dude.
	I'm not screaming.
	The only person that's rude is you because you're so afraid for me to get to the comma because the debate ends at the comma, dog.
	This is over.
	You have nothing to...
	I hadn't heard that before.
	Did you hear what she said?
	The debate ends at the comma, dog.
	She just threw down some blackness on him.
	Is you because you're so afraid for me to get to the comma because the debate ends at the comma, dog?
	This is over.
	You have nothing to add except for asking me if I'm Canadian.
	And no, I'm not.
	I wish I could tell you where from Africa my ancestors came from, at least part of them, but I wouldn't know because the same bigots who are sending people back away from their children are the ones who brought my ancestors here on the station.
	Congratulations.
	There you go.
	That is it in a nutshell.
	All the shit I have in my life is because...
	white men.
	We, I can actually say it, we're a punching bag.
	And not much more than that, by the way.
	Well, more than even white men in some...
	This thing has gotten completely out of control.
	White men, white women, too, in some ways.
	Because there's this situation in Australia we have to comment on.
	Yes.
	Which is ludicrous.
	And I checked it out.
	I thought, this has got to be a joke.
	This must be the onion.
	But no, this is going on.
	And I have this clip here of the Australian nurses that required...
	To go up to people when they do nursing and say, excuse me, I have to tell you, I have white privilege.
	Yeah.
	Wasn't this debunked?
	Didn't we talk about this, that it was only, quote-unquote, only one union?
	It wasn't a law for all nurses?
	No, they put it into play.
	There's some sort of a handbook that all nurses have to follow.
	You can listen to this and think for yourself whether it's not true, but you can look up...
	Go to Google.
	No, it's true, but I'm just saying I believe it was for 5,000 nurses.
	No, I don't think so.
	Oh, listen.
	Tonight, the contentious new code telling nurses to say sorry for being white when treating their indigenous people.
	It's okay, John.
	All we have to say is, I'm white.
	You don't have to actually say I'm white.
	I'm white.
	I'm white.
	It's okay that way.
	Tonight, the contentious new code telling nurses to say sorry for being white when treating their Indigenous patients.
	Now, it's the latest in a string of politically correct changes for the health industry, but this one has led to calls for the nursing board boss to resign.
	And as Yaz Dedevich reports, even some Aboriginal leaders have described it as potentially damaging.
	According to how the code is written, the white nurse would come in and say, before I deal with you, I have to acknowledge to you that I have...
	Yeah, this is the clip we played a while ago, but it does sound like it's now code in all of the nursing profession, I guess.
	...have certain privileges that you don't have.
	What we've got is a bunch of do-gooders who think that this is actually going to help people, where in reality, it's only dividing society...
	The code says that I must tell you that they come about because of my whiteness and your disadvantage becomes because of your blackness.
	I doubt that it's come from an Aboriginal community, that's for sure.
	No actual consultation with Aboriginal people.
	They're the backbone of our health system, often overworked and underpaid.
	Nurses are very caring people.
	They're always respectful.
	It's in their genes.
	I mean, this is the thing that's so outrageous because the fundamental presumption of this, Kate, is that nurses are currently racists.
	But now a new imposition, one that could threaten their livelihood.
	It only takes a single complaint from a patient to say, you didn't acknowledge your white privilege, I felt culturally under threat or subsumed by you, and the nurse can find themselves hauled before the tribunal and subject to a conduct complaint.
	It has many like Graham Haycroft from the Nurses' Professional Association of Queensland up in arms.
	This is introducing a form of apartheid into nursing.
	In the health system.
	In changes to the National Code of Conduct for nurses and midwives, when treating patients who identify as Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islanders, they must first acknowledge their white privilege.
	Now, the thing that seems to be overlooked by this nonsense...
	Besides the fact that we're supposed to be doing less of the segregation, we're supposed to be more integrated as a worldwide culture and not making these distinctions.
	Because it seems to me that making this particular distinction in this particular moment is announcing your superiority.
	Yes.
	I don't see why people don't see it that way.
	You go up and you say, oh, I want to tell you I'm white and I have privilege and you're not.
	Yeah.
	How is that not, besides being insulting, how is that not an incredibly divisive, besides being that, it's just like, it doesn't seem right to be doing that.
	It's just like making a point of it.
	I'm white and you're black.
	It's what it amounts to.
	But, you know, next it'll be, I apologize because I'm white, and then you'll have to say I apologize because I'm white and a man, and then I'll have to apologize because I'm over six feet tall.
	I think...
	Here, so I meet you, and I say...
	I apologize for being so tall that you're a little short fucker.
	Yeah.
	And I'm a tall guy.
	Yeah.
	I mean, come on.
	Where does it end?
	Well, I know how it ends.
	It's very simple.
	Okay, let's pretend we're just a meeting and we introduce ourselves and you introduce yourself to me.
	Hello, I'm John.
	Oh, hi.
	Oh, hi.
	I'm Adam Curry.
	Sorry that I exist.
	Ah, yes.
	I think that should be it.
	I'm sorry I exist.
	Sorry I exist.
	But this is what...
	So now I understand.
	It was partially due to the newsletter and a couple other things.
	The reason why the word racism is used because...
	And I think it was written somewhere.
	They said in this...
	Not this context, but in this...
	Hmm.
	I can't remember the exact word.
	But in the context and the way it's used today from people like Sarah Young is...
	If you are white, it is impossible for anyone to be racist against you.
	So racism is only what the ancestral men, predominantly white men, have done to the world.
	And they are the racists.
	And you can be racist against other people, but against white people, apparently white men, it just cannot be racist.
	And I know a lot of millennials who believe this.
	If you hate, yes, I agree.
	A lot of millennials buy into this.
	Hate the white race and want them wiped off the face of the earth.
	There's not an element of racism in that.
	No.
	By definition.
	No.
	Anymore.
	By this definition.
	I would argue there never has been.
	It's just a...
	It's good.
	It's a good thing.
	It's a good thing.
	It's a start.
	No basis in there.
	It's a start.
	We should get rid of all whites.
	But isn't this just...
	No wonder that people are...
	I mean, this whole...
	What happened to the idea that we're supposed to all be one big happy family?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	It seems that somehow what has taken place is...
	You know, you used to feel bad about your situation.
	And I think necessity is the mother of invention.
	I've seen it myself.
	At the lowest point, it's darkest before dawn.
	You know all the sayings.
	Because ultimately, you have to pull yourself up and do something and make something out of yourself.
	But we've trained, really, an entire generation...
	And I think it goes worldwide.
	We've trained an entire generation that you can blame this group for whatever it is that ails you.
	And if you look, you don't have to look that hard.
	Of course, I mean, everything in history comes from white men.
	I mean, I know that's not true, but the way people like Angela Rye would see it.
	So, they're to blame.
	It's obvious.
	It's very odd.
	Extremely odd.
	You talk about The Handmaid's Tale, exactly the opposite is taking place.
	The men will be kept as slaves only to come out to breed.
	Well, I have noticed this thing, you know, there's this demasculinization of the American boy.
	It starts with Ritalin in kindergarten.
	Yeah.
	Well, there's a lot of that.
	Yeah, stuff like that.
	They dope them up.
	But there's something I've been noticing that's been bothering me.
	And it's the use of the high register in men routinely to the point where you almost can't tell if it's a woman talking.
	And this is into the 20s and 30s I'm talking about here.
	The higher-end millennials.
	It's not a case in my family.
	JC actually sounds a little like I do.
	But...
	I hear it when I go out.
	And I was getting my hair cut the other day, and I could hear these two guys talking.
	And both of them, I can do it, I think, if I try hard enough to get my high register to work a little better as just my normal voice.
	And, you know, I think I can't do it without making a parody of it.
	But hold on.
	How old are they?
	Were they young?
	Like, 20s?
	No, mid to late 20s.
	Okay.
	White guys?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Gay or straight?
	Gay.
	Well, they have – I think one was straight and one was gay.
	But I don't know.
	They could have both been straight.
	They could have both been gay because I was paying more attention to this voice of theirs.
	And they all had this high register, and you start hearing it.
	It's very close to being a voice that never went through puberty, like a kid's voice.
	But it's in an adult, and it has a different ring and tone to it because of the size of the body and the solar plexus.
	It's going to bring out a different kind of a sound.
	But I'm just noticing it everywhere.
	And it's kind of like, remember that woman who was busted for that fake...
	Therapeutic, you know, did the testing with the micro-drops.
	Oh, Theranos?
	Yeah, Theranos blonde who talk like this.
	I think it's important that a woman talks like this.
	Well, this is the opposite.
	Guys that talk like this, they all sound like Mickey Mouse.
	I don't know how they do it.
	I don't know if I've had the same experience.
	Start listening.
	But it wouldn't surprise me that...
	You've got those new hearing aids on.
	You'll be able to hear now.
	Thank you.
	Go ahead.
	Mock the meek and the crippled.
	Thank you.
	You've got superpowers.
	It's like when people are aware you have hearing aids and you miss something, what's the first thing they say?
	Turn up your hearing aid.
	Yeah, yeah, exactly.
	It's like saying to someone with an artificial limb, hey, walk a little faster.
	Yeah.
	What's wrong with you?
	Now you get over hypersensitive about the hearing aids.
	Yeah, of course, because I'm still trying to figure them out and get them perfect.
	And there's no perfection.
	It's a hell of a lot better.
	But, you know, once you claim your bionic, which I am, I mean, I hear things that are unbelievable.
	But then when you miss something, then it's...
	I'm sure that's what someone would say.
	Somebody's a dick.
	Now, I would say, turn up your hearing aid and start listening for these kids, these 20-somethings.
	Maybe it's not as present in Texas as it is in California, but it's quite noticeable around here.
	Well, um...
	And by the way, we'll have people writing in mentioning it in some parts of the country.
	Oh, I'm sure.
	I'm sure.
	I'm sure.
	But it's, uh...
	I noticed it.
	But, you know, it wouldn't surprise me if you grow up amongst your peers and you all have to agree that, you know, man, really, it's the white man who really did all this to us and we've got to take down those statues and then meanwhile you're standing there and if you're, you know, if you're a white guy, maybe you just better shut up.
	I guess I'm going to start talking like this!
	I don't, I don't...
	Leave me alone!
	Leave me alone!
	I gotta write that number down.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	I had another clip here in the same bin, also from Australia, coincidentally, but I don't think it has to do necessarily with this.
	It's about...
	Well, it is in the bit, about the future of the Democrat Party.
	I just don't remember if it was our party or the one in Australia.
	Finally, what advice would you give to the Democrats?
	Yes, author Frank Thomas is being asked this, so it is about the US Democratic Party.
	Trump in 2020, and what do you think is actually going to happen?
	What you do when you're faced with the white working class walking away from the party of the left, you reach out for them in the way that a party of the left reaches out for working class people.
	You don't emphasize the whiteness, you emphasize the working classness.
	And you reach out to them on economic issues in a lot of the ways that Bernie Sanders was proposing to do.
	That, I think, can stop them.
	But the question of what they will do?
	They're not going to do that because that would involve them breaking up with their Wall Street pals.
	That would involve the Democratic Party having to...
	They couldn't party with the Silicon Valley guys.
	They couldn't ride on the Google Jet anymore because they would have to, once again, become a party of working people.
	They're very happy being the party of the professional class and they don't want to go back to being what they used to be.
	What they really want to do...
	Is scold Trump voters.
	Not just Trump himself, but they're angry at his voters.
	And their first impulse is to scold them.
	They want to live in this utopia of scolding where they can every day feel so pure and good about themselves, you know, and this scold, scold, scold, scold.
	I think the other thing that they're going to do is run the campaign of 2016 over and over and over again until they finally win.
	You know, they'll try different candidates.
	They'll try different get-out-the-vote efforts.
	They'll do it right next time.
	And then next time they'll, you know, they won't lose.
	And look, that might work.
	That might work in the short term.
	The thing is this.
	The Republican Party is never turning away from Trumpism.
	Next time around, after Trump is gone, it's going to be in the hands of somebody that knows what they're doing.
	A Ted Cruz.
	A Marco Rubio.
	And they're not going to make dumb mistakes.
	You have to stop that, Democrats.
	They need to become the party of labor again.
	I don't think they want to go there, and this is why I'm kind of pessimistic about my country's future.
	Well, now, see, he had a very good analysis.
	Yes.
	Which I agree with 100% about the Democrats abandoning the working class because they see a dying middle class is dead.
	Who cares?
	We love partying with the Googles.
	Yeah, I thought that was pretty astute.
	It was accurate.
	And the biggest partiers of all, of course, are the bankers, especially the investment bankers.
	They party like nobody else.
	And so they'd rather be doing that because it's always been the party of partiers.
	But then at the end, he kind of drops the ball by saying, oh, my country's doomed.
	It was a good analysis until he said that because it's not necessarily true at all.
	I have the best my country's doomed clip.
	It's a long one, but it's Rob Reiner.
	Oh, God.
	It's really good, John.
	Yeah, okay.
	It's Rob Reiner with Nicole Wallace.
	Oh, wait.
	Let me do an entremont first.
	Oh.
	You didn't go to Rob Reiner because since you're in Australia and we were talking about Australia and the nurse, I do have a New Zealand clip.
	Just to be fair, just to be impartial to the islands.
	So the New Zealanders, they have this Lauren Southern who's up there with Molyneux who just seems to be hanging out with her because she's pretty.
	And he doesn't get a word in edgewise with her.
	Hey, let's do a podcast together.
	Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
	And so she's floating around.
	She's the one recently...
	Hey, hey, we should do a podcast together one of these days.
	What a dog.
	Dog.
	Dog.
	She got kicked out of the UK permanently.
	I thought she wasn't even allowed in.
	No, I think, yeah, kicked out and not allowed in.
	She can't go there.
	For what reason is another mystery.
	It's just like, why?
	Okay.
	For the heckler's veto, of course.
	We all understand this.
	She's a very interesting troublemaker because she's...
	Fast talker, sharp, good ideas.
	She's pretty much just on this anti-Sharia, anti-immigrant, anti-diversity.
	She's an anti-diversity person.
	And she says she goes to New Zealand.
	They cut her off from all her speaking engagements because she's anti-diversity.
	And it's very hard to understand this New Zealander interviewer on this show.
	I have the whole clip.
	He goes dead at the end after she throws something at him.
	You have to really concentrate to hear the words but see what we got here.
	More than that, there's polling that has been done in this country where over, I believe when I checked last, it was around 70% of people here agreed we should have the right to speak.
	So there is this radical minority that want to decide what the majority of people should think is hate speech and should be shut down.
	Well, what people say is hate speech is when you say that diversity is Right, and the suffragettes would have been considered against the modern status quo at the time.
	Individuals who criticized Christianity hundreds of years ago would have been prosecuted under blasphemy laws.
	I now criticize the religion of diversity, and I'm considered committing hate speech because that is the popular culture at the time.
	Well, what I say to you, Lauren Southern, is that New Zealand is a diverse country.
	You say diversity is a weakness.
	This country is known as a melting pot.
	Are you saying we're a weak country?
	Will you accept the diverse view that women should be stoned for the crime of being raped?
	What's wrong with that?
	Blood and dead air.
	And so, uh...
	I didn't know that New Zealand...
	Saw itself as this diverse melting pot.
	Did you?
	No, I thought...
	And apparently it's like a state religion, so you can't criticize the whole idea of diversity, which is the reason they won't let her speak?
	Oh, we have enough New Zealanders.
	They're going to let us know exactly what's going on.
	I don't know.
	It's hard to believe that this whole thing isn't...
	I know what she likes to do.
	She likes to get herself into a pickle so she can complain about it.
	Right.
	And I don't know if she's ever managed to pull off a speech.
	I mean, she does it for clicks.
	I like her style, but she's a troublemaker.
	You can just tell.
	Oh, that's a plus.
	It is a plus.
	At least someone's triggering this conversation.
	But, you know, in some way, on some days I get up, I think, eh, it's just on Twitter.
	And it really is pretty much just on Twitter.
	I don't know about Facebag because I'm still not on it.
	You say that until you find that she's been kicked out of the UK for showing up and she can't go back to the UK at all.
	She can't go visit London.
	No, no.
	What I mean is this general – the general argument, you know, what is taking place.
	It doesn't really spill over into the real world that much.
	And there are days when I think, well, this entire generation that's grown up to believe that white privilege exists to the degree that you have to apologize for being white, you know, will that ever rectify it?
	And some days I think, oh yeah, people will get over it and they'll change their mind.
	But then I hear Rob Reiner and I'm like, no.
	No, we'll never get over it.
	On MSNBC, of course plugging his movie, which is shock and awe the movie is about, as far as I understand it, the run-up to the Iraq war and how the press was...
	He's thwarted from telling the truth.
	Oh, really?
	Oh, yeah.
	In my view, he's changing history by saying that they knew what was going on, but no, no, no, no.
	They shut up.
	Who made them shut up?
	Was there the Ministry of Truth?
	In my mind, it was the media.
	The media were the ones who were pushing it.
	They were all in.
	That's what I saw.
	I watched this.
	I remember it.
	I saw it as a bunch of bull crap.
	And ground zero, to coin that phrase for this, or to use the phrase here, was the New York Times.
	And the woman who had the just incorrect, non-fact-checked information about the weapons of mass destruction.
	And she worked for the CIA, I believe.
	Possibly.
	You're talking about the one that was kicked out.
	Yeah, but she was the one, and she covered it up.
	So it was the media as far as I remember.
	But okay.
	So he's revising that now.
	He's revising it.
	Of course you can blame a lot on Cheney.
	Let me guess.
	He's revising it.
	It turns out somehow to be Trump's fault?
	I wish.
	It's only at the end because that's when the plug comes in.
	But just a couple minutes of Rob Reiner completely unglued.
	The Washington Post has been keeping a running...
	And not like Nicole Wallace's much less unglued.
	Fact checker, if you will, of the president's, the way he speaks.
	And they've just updated it.
	4,229 false or misleading claims in 558 days.
	That's 16 a day!
	That's seven and a half claims a day.
	Oh, I thought it was 16.
	In just June and July, that's 16 live.
	Lies or falsehoods from misleading claims a day.
	And that is the biggest problem I see with...
	Because I think of it as two mainstream medias.
	I'm going to point out one of the ones that was pointed out to me where Sarah Huckabee, who's also a liar, said that she was bitching about the press or somebody saying they want to strangle her.
	And it was pointed out as a bold-faced lie.
	Because the words were, they wanted to wring her neck.
	It was a lie.
	I remember we played the clip and our conclusion was, what a bunch of bullcrap.
	Yeah.
	It was a lie.
	Yeah, well, the lie, though, lies on the other side.
	No.
	No, not in that case.
	Well, what was it?
	Give me the background, because I don't know.
	Let me see.
	I think I have the clips here.
	Ring her neck.
	Let me see if I have it here.
	Oh, this is actually, interestingly enough, Nicole Wallace, again, this may only be an ISO, though.
	What is this?
	Kristen Walker, how do you resist the temptation to run up and wring her neck?
	Why can't she just say?
	That's what the whole thing is based on.
	From Nicole Wallace saying, how could you stop from not going up and wanting to wring her neck?
	I mean, it's an expression.
	I know, but then why does it, if somebody says, if I say to you after you said that came out about me, I said they wanted to choke me.
	Does that mean I'm a liar?
	No.
	Yeah.
	They just said they want to wring my neck.
	No.
	No.
	Did not say that.
	What made you not want to go up there and wring her neck?
	Well, it's okay.
	It's implied.
	It was a big storm about nothing.
	It's bullshit.
	There was no...
	Well, that's the point I'm trying to make is that these so-called lies...
	Yes.
	Okay.
	I got you.
	Most of them are in this category.
	Okay.
	I got you.
	I got you.
	I'm with you now.
	They're like minor little things.
	The guy says...
	You know, he gives a number that's off by one.
	He's a liar.
	He gives a number that's off by 100.
	He's a liar, but he's just throwing stuff out because he's going to these speeches.
	You know, where he's just ad-libbing an hour speech.
	Yeah, he's just going to have a bunch of numbers in front of him.
	It would be like this.
	People listening to this show, I'm sure some call us liars.
	And water carriers for Putin.
	And what's happening is sometimes we're just wrong.
	We're wrong or we remember it differently.
	Or being wrong and getting it slightly wrong and making little errors or just shooting from the hip is not the same as the way they're trying to portray this.
	It's like plotting liars to try to manipulate.
	I know.
	Yes, I'll tell them this.
	Agreed.
	But it's a difficult one, the one in the case of Sarah Sanders, because I heard her on the podium say words to the effect of, you know, your network.
	It's ant-fucking.
	Hey, new Curry's Law.
	Once you bring in that term, the conversation's over and you win.
	It's Miranoka.
	And thank you for tweeting that the other day.
	All of Holland is in arms.
	They can't believe that John C. Dvorak used the Dutch word Miranoka.
	I really enjoyed that.
	Eyes or falsehoods or misleading claims a day.
	Yeah, and that is the biggest problem I see with...
	Because I think of it as two mainstream medias.
	You have, you know, Washington Post, New York Times, all the networks except for Fox, working very hard to get the truth out.
	To be fair, there are some really genuinely very good journalists at Fox who did some genuinely good...
	Oh, who are the good journalists at Fox?
	John, who would they be?
	Shepard Smith.
	Yes!
	Look at Ed Henry's interview with Scott Pruitt.
	Absolutely, and we've got Shepard Smith.
	I mean, there are good journalists there.
	Shepard Smith is a good journalist.
	He's not a journalist.
	He's a prompter reader.
	What are you talking about?
	He has opinions.
	He gives the counter-opinion on Fox, which I think is very good for Fox to do.
	He's got a great voice.
	Yes, he's got that Ryan Seacrest kind of vibe about him.
	He could do radio.
	You should consider doing radio.
	You've been really good, Chef.
	Everybody, Chef Smith!
	But this is the first time that you have mainstream media essentially divided into two halves.
	So that you have Fox, Breitbart, Sinclair, and Alex Jones, which has now been taken off of Facebook, thank God.
	Oh, thank God it's all Facebook.
	I was going crazy seeing Alex Jones on Facebook.
	What?
	Thank God!
	I didn't know if I would survive the night with Alex Jones on Facebook.
	Rob, I'm so happy you survived it.
	What the hell, man?
	man, what is, where's this, where's this guy's priorities and what is he doing?
	So that you have, uh, you know, Fox, Breitbart, Sinclair and Alex Jones, which has now been taken off of Facebook.
	Thank God, uh, you know, trafficking in another narrative.
	And so, you know, when shock and awe, trafficking in another narrative, Thank you.
	That's an interesting way of saying they have a different viewpoint or a different opinion.
	Yeah, but he uses the drug-related term trafficking to demean it.
	Well done.
	I like that a lot, trafficking.
	That's a propagandistic.
	Yes, Goebbels is rolling over in his grave.
	Or on his beach towel in Argentina.
	You know, trafficking in another narrative.
	And so, you know, when shock and awe with these guys, the four journalists...
	So that's his film, shock and awe.
	So now he's plugging the movie.
	No, trafficking in another narrative.
	And so...
	You know, when shock and awe with these guys, the four journalists who got the truth out during the run-up to the war, they were facing headwinds of patriotism, the trauma of 9-11, but they weren't facing the headwinds that real journalists who are working very hard now to get the truth out.
	Which is this cement block, a wall that they cannot penetrate with the truth.
	And that's the scary part.
	So he's saying that because Fox News is trafficking in another narrative, that journalists now cannot get the truth out?
	There's a block?
	How does that work?
	What is he talking about?
	Isn't the truth all over MSNBC and CNN and ABC, CBS, NBC? Isn't the truth everywhere?
	He's right there.
	But what I think he's saying is we're not reaching our fellow Americans who have been misled by this hypnotic Fox News.
	That's what he's saying.
	Except, you know, there's shimmering points of light, like Shep Smith.
	Block a wall that they cannot penetrate with the truth.
	And that's the scary part.
	That's the...
	Donald Trump ran on this, and it was effective.
	He said that, you know, the media doesn't represent regular people.
	Hollywood doesn't represent regular people.
	We are completely out of touch with regular people.
	And it worked to his advantage.
	How do you...
	That, to me, would be a clue.
	Let me see.
	He said...
	Let me see.
	It worked what he was saying.
	Maybe we are out of touch.
	No, no, no.
	Even I can reconsider my position from time to time.
	Doesn't represent regular people.
	Hollywood doesn't represent regular people.
	We are completely out of touch with regular people.
	And it worked to his advantage.
	How do you...
	How, as somebody who speaks in the media often, as someone who produces films like Shock and Awe, that are journalism films, but then also somebody in Hollywood, how do you push back on that?
	You just have to keep pounding away.
	There's nothing else you can do.
	I mean, look...
	He doesn't speak to the mainstream media.
	They're just angry.
	Their people are angry, and he will feed them whatever they want.
	Unlike you, who is being fed by the machine with stuff they want, it's not the same.
	To keep that anger going, and you see it in the rallies.
	He actually calls for, you know, this kind of outrage.
	Outraged and take it out against the media, take it out against immigrants, take it out against whomever you want.
	That's what he does.
	He keeps stirring this up.
	But you have to stay at it.
	You have to stay at it.
	There's no other way.
	Well, if you can.
	I mean, if you can.
	If you don't break through, we are going to have, we are in it right now.
	It might be the last stage of a civil war.
	The last battle is being fought.
	Hopefully it won't be fought physically.
	Wait a minute.
	We're in the last stages of the battle for the Civil War.
	Hopefully it won't be fought physically.
	Well, what is going to happen?
	Are we going to have Twitter teams?
	Or is it all going to happen on Fortnite?
	What are we going to do with this, Rob?
	But we are more divided than we ever have been, and we've got a president.
	No.
	Weren't we really divided in the actual Civil War?
	I'd say that was pretty divided.
	I'd say we were very divided in the Civil War.
	I think...
	I think that's a little more divided than what you're seeing here.
	With lines, you know, and huge armies going at it.
	Yeah, brother against brother.
	Yeah, you know, blowing people up.
	That's okay.
	Let's exaggerate today's thing.
	This year, this is the worst ever.
	We are going to have, we are in it right now.
	It might be the last stage of a civil war.
	The last battle is being fought.
	Hopefully it won't be fought physically.
	But we are more divided than we ever have been, and we've got a president who is backed up by media.
	Presidents have always spewed propaganda.
	Liberals, Democrats, Republicans, they always have.
	Everyone spins.
	Yeah, to push a policy, to push a rationale to go to war.
	But they've never been backed up by essentially incensed state-run media.
	That's new.
	And social media, it's all new.
	And it's very, very scary.
	This guy is really nuts.
	This is the third time I'm hearing the clip, but it's all about Fox, who of course have top ratings.
	To me, what he's really saying is, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh and gee, Fox News has high ratings.
	They're buying it.
	Everyone's being zombified.
	Look at the actual number of people who watch Fox News.
	It's not like CBS 60 Minutes.
	No, it's nothing like the big networks.
	The big networks have really got us.
	So he is, I think what he's saying is that he is so afraid that this group of millions of viewers every night and every day is being mind controlled and this is going to drive us to civil war.
	Hopefully not a shooting war.
	Which is another weird thing I'd ever heard before.
	He says we're almost at the end of the civil war.
	Is that what he said?
	Yeah, didn't you hear that?
	Yeah, he says we're almost at the end of the Civil War.
	We're at the last stages.
	I hope it doesn't come to blows.
	No, I thought he meant the...
	The Washington Post has been keeping...
	...is being fought.
	Hopefully it won't be fought.
	We're going to have...
	We're in it right now.
	It might be the last stage of the Civil War.
	The last battle is being fought.
	Hopefully it won't be fought.
	Oh, you're right.
	Oh, okay.
	Interesting.
	I didn't interpret it that way the first time.
	So this is the last stage, which means Fox has to come down?
	Is that it?
	Is that Reiner's last stand as Fox News?
	I didn't take that, but I mean, I don't know what he's...
	Okay, I don't know what he's talking about.
	So, maybe that's what he's talking about.
	That Fox News, the whole civil war is Fox News.
	Yes.
	And the last stages, the last battle.
	Oh, that must be the midterm election.
	That's what he's talking about.
	Ah, vote, vote, vote, yeah.
	Yeah, okay.
	Yeah, this guy.
	Watch my movie, vote Democrat.
	And with that, I'd like to thank you for your courage and say in the morning to you, John C., where the C stands for counter-trolling Deborah!
	In the morning to you, Mr.
	Adam Curry!
	In the morning to the troll room.
	T-R-O-L-L room.
	NoagendaStream.com is where you can listen to the show live, joining the conversation, the combo anonymously.
	You can do whatever you want until you overstep the boundaries, which are unwritten rules.
	But in the morning to you, trolls there.
	Also, I'd like to say in the morning to our artists for episode 1056, the cover art for Q Vision was brought to you by Darren O'Neill.
	Very reminiscent of the National Lampoon, you know, by this magazine or we shoot the dog somehow in an odd way.
	Yeah, it had a...
	Sort of a remembrance of that.
	Yeah, it had something to it.
	Some psychological way.
	And this was the...
	I didn't notice it at first.
	Somebody pointed it out.
	Put it on Twitter.
	Yeah.
	This was a dog, and we were talking about dog vaccinations coming.
	And, of course, I got 30 different emails from people saying, here's my bill, $760 for getting my dog vaccinated.
	$760 for vaccinations for the dog.
	What?
	Yeah.
	Ever since they brought in pet insurance, prices skyrocketed.
	Surprise, surprise.
	That's what happened.
	Ask Mimi.
	She knows.
	She's always bitching to me about the vet bills.
	Is she bitching to you about the vet bills?
	I bet she is.
	No.
	She brings up with me, she gets an earful.
	I'm like, oh, really?
	She'll talk to you about that.
	She needs an outlet, apparently.
	I'm not a very sympathetic ear for a lot of these things.
	And I'm the dog hater, everybody.
	And you're the dog hater.
	This is the great irony of this, isn't it?
	It is.
	Let's thank some people who came into our value network for the program who support us as executive and associate executive producers.
	Yes, we have three execs and two associates.
	Christopher Whiteson in Atlanta, Georgia.
	33333 is at the top of the list.
	He says, Job Karma, please.
	And he wants to play the original No Agenda Scream, the Calm Down Scream.
	Do you have any idea what that is?
	Yeah, because we made one without the calm down and then just one with the scream.
	So yeah, I think I have it.
	And Jobs Karma?
	Calm down.
	Jobs, jobs, jobs, and jobs.
	Let's vote for jobs!
	You've got karma.
	Yeah, I forgot about that scream.
	I picked that scream out of some...
	Somebody, some little girl or something being pulled away by the police or something.
	It was a real scream.
	And then we did this one.
	Calm down!
	That's the original, and here's the one we edited.
	Both of them dynamite.
	Blood-curdling.
	Blood-curdling scream is what that should be titled.
	Neville Barnum in Australia, or Bearham, I'm sorry, Barham.
	Neville Barham in Australia, 3333.
	Did he send him a note?
	I couldn't find a note.
	He sent a note in August 2017, so it was a year ago.
	Let me check.
	So let's just give him a karma, and then if he has something he wants to relay...
	He can get back to us, absolutely.
	You've got karma.
	Our third executive producer is Tim Cato at $300 from...
	Waipahu, Hawaii.
	With this donation, I join the august company of the No Agenda Roundtable.
	Thanks for all the hard work you both do.
	I'd like to be known as Sir Tim of the Tunnels and request single malt scotch at the Roundtable and a goat karma for all.
	Okay.
	You've got karma.
	And I'll see you later on the podium, Tim.
	Spencer Marshall comes in at $200 from Hearst, Texas.
	A while back, I was getting the mail while in my car.
	I unrolled the window in the exact time that the John Boob Boob jingle came on.
	While I'm usually entertained by this, it was a bit awkward considering a group of kids playing across the street with parent supervision.
	Like, you know, how loud do you play your radio?
	I can only imagine what they were thinking given the looks they gave me.
	Apparently the plays are very loud.
	Please consider this 8008...
	Please consider...
	I'm sorry.
	Please consider 8008 of this donation in honor of those confused parents and children.
	Fortunately...
	Maybe you apologize.
	It would be better.
	Fortunately, my...
	The only...
	Ladies and gentlemen, this is what you call a cold read.
	And it's going well.
	The only list my name has been added to.
	You know, the funny thing about that long cold read that I did, compared to this, is a lot of it has to do with the writing.
	And the spacing and formatting.
	There's a lot of stuff.
	And it reminds me, when you do teleprompter reading, if you have somebody that can write for you...
	And also you need the right operator.
	Oh yeah, well that...
	You really need the right operator.
	Yeah.
	But if you have somebody that can write for you, you can read like a breeze and you'd never flub.
	It's beautiful.
	But then you have somebody that's just writing.
	I don't know who they're writing for and you can't read it.
	It's just off-paste.
	And so you look at it, if you're watching TV and you're watching these people, you say, this guy's an idiot.
	He keeps stumbling all over the place.
	It has a lot to do with what they're reading.
	Anyway, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
	Fortunately, the only list my name has been added to recently is the new ASA list, the Associated Society of Actuaries, in April.
	He's a bookkeeper.
	The process involved a series of difficult exams.
	I made it through those with no karma but would like some FSA fellow of the Society of Actuaries exam taking goat karma as I prepare for my next test on Halloween.
	I would also like a foamer screaming about the train horn jingle for my smoking hot wife who works for BNSF.
	Oh.
	Oh.
	Finally, please play a boob jingle for the next boob donation, not the baseball one.
	It's been too long.
	Please keep it to good work.
	It's a much-needed reminder that it's always worth applying critical thought to new information.
	I'm not sure which one I have lined up.
	I don't know if it's the baseball one.
	The baseball?
	I don't know.
	Hmm.
	I don't know what the baseball one is.
	All right.
	Well, let's try it.
	Oh, my God!
	Listen to that horn!
	You've got...
	Armline.
	There we go.
	Beautiful.
	Spencer Marshall.
	Oh, that was Spencer Marshall.
	Nithrone Custom Seats.
	N-I-T-H-R-O-N-E. Custom Seats in Phoenix, Arizona.
	200 bucks.
	He just sent a check in with a little note on the bottom saying, keep up the great work.
	Oh, nice.
	Nithrone Custom Seats.
	Nithrone.
	You're right, you're right.
	Nithrone Custom Seats.
	Sunday, Sunday, Sunday.
	See the Nithrone funny cars.
	Oh, that's Nitro.
	Sorry, wrong one.
	All right.
	Oh, that's it.
	That concludes our group, yeah.
	The small group.
	Okay.
	Small group, but dedicated, and we appreciate that.
	And this entitles you to call yourself either an executive producer of No Agenda, Episode 1057, or Associate Executive Producer.
	And did you see someone tweeted out a statistic screenshot from LinkedIn that And I think what the tweet said was a large percentage of no agenda producers are experiencing job karma.
	Because it says, you know, like 11 people got a new job.
	And they were all no agenda producers who put their no agenda producership in their LinkedIn profile.
	Yeah.
	I think that's pretty fascinating.
	It is.
	Shit works.
	I'm all in on this quantum physics thing now.
	Yeah.
	Exactly.
	Quantum's the way to go.
	And we will do this again on Sunday.
	And we do implore you to visit our donation page to support the program at Dvorak.org slash NA as witnessed by this handy jingle.
	Dvorak.org slash NA. And you can always take this deconstruction out for the last day of the weekend and propagate it.
	Our formula is this.
	We go out, we hit people in the mouth.
	Hey, you know who's back?
	you You know who's back?
	Uh, Al Sharpton.
	No, one of our favorite jingle makers is back.
	Jeff Smith.
	Yes, the Jeff Smith.
	G-E-O-F-F. Jeff Smith is back.
	Apparently, the crazy piano bar where he worked closed down, so he's experiencing joblessness at the moment.
	Yes, I'm going to give him a karma, first of all.
	You've got karma.
	I should have added that just for good measure.
	Let's vote for jobs!
	There we go.
	But he kind of gave me the impression on the email that I received that he was enjoying the downtime.
	And, of course, it means that he created some more jingles for us.
	Q-R-U Q-Q Q-Q-Q How good is that?
	You know what I like about his jingles?
	Of course, he's a professional jingle maker.
	And we have a lot of people that can do jingles, but they're not professionals.
	There's a difference.
	And the difference is that his jingles are tight.
	They're short and tight.
	Yeah.
	No, and to the point, and they work incredibly well.
	And in this case, you know, it's the who, but who cares?
	Who are you?
	Q-Q. Q-Q. Q-Q-K-Chu.
	Q-Q-K-Chu.
	A musician joke there.
	Lovely.
	Well, I only have a few things to mention regarding Q today.
	Just actually one, I think we should just don the glasses just for a brief little update.
	Do you have them there?
	Hold on a second.
	I'll put mine on.
	I put them in a case because I didn't think you were going to be on this constantly.
	Snaps my head back when I put them on.
	You ready?
	Wait a minute.
	I didn't get mine on.
	No.
	Are they on?
	Yeah.
	Whoa.
	Whoa.
	Here's the latest.
	Apparently, Q has left some breadcrumbs that these...
	Coffins returning from North Korea do not contain remains.
	They actually contain the servers.
	The DNC server, Hillary server, and some other server.
	It's like four servers that are being smuggled back into the country in the coffins of the remains.
	Well, since they never opened the coffins...
	We have no idea what's in there.
	It could be a bunch of Twix bars, for all we know.
	Yeah, I don't know.
	It's a good bit, though.
	I like it.
	Yeah.
	I think this guy's on acid.
	Scott Adams visited the White House.
	He was with the president.
	Did you see that?
	Yeah, I saw that picture.
	That's actually a cutout.
	No, I don't think so.
	So he did his Periscope, and that was yesterday, and I saw it.
	And he talked about his experience, but he was very sincere and consistent with saying, I'm not going to tell you what we talked about, which, you know, that's not proper.
	Like, are you kidding me?
	If I visited the White House, I'd go right down to the, you know, the shoelaces on his shoes.
	I'd be explaining everything, just like the King of Holland.
	You do as much as you can.
	Why would you not...
	Unless there was some strategy that he expressed.
	No, I don't think so.
	I think what it was, was he's showing, this is me, I still got these glasses on, so I can't come up with this.
	Yes, no, of course, that's why we bring it up, yep.
	I think what it is, is he's vying for a job within the administration, and he's showing that he can keep a secret.
	Unlike most of the leakers working there.
	Your Q vision is working very well today.
	I like that.
	Very good.
	Well, this morning he did another periscope and he said Q is bullshit.
	He basically calls it what we've discussed previously a psychological operation and it will only wind up in severe disappointment for everybody.
	Now he's pushing out disinformation to show the president that he can do that, too.
	Exactly, and Q will drop some crumbs to let us know.
	Yeah.
	And hopefully I'll be able to report on that on Sunday's show.
	Now, before you take them off, John, just look out the window right now.
	Before I do that, before I do that, I should mention this is Sunday's show, if I'm not mistaken.
	Yeah, I meant Thursday.
	I don't know.
	I'm in a different universe.
	I do it all the time.
	I do it all the time.
	No, you don't do it all the time.
	No, I do it a lot.
	No, I do it a lot.
	I'm confused because every day is Sunday to me, John.
	Yeah.
	Or every day is Thursday.
	I'm looking out the window.
	Okay, now look up, look up, look up, look up, look up.
	Look at the sky.
	Yeah?
	Do you see the moon bases?
	Mm-hmm.
	I don't see anything but blue sky.
	Oh, okay.
	I can see the moon bases with them.
	I'm taking mine off.
	Take it off.
	Good.
	Okay, we're done.
	You know, whether they're on or off, one thing's the same.
	The mudflats, they're still there.
	And they're big.
	Yeah.
	Anyway, Jeff's back, could not be happier.
	And we have some other stuff that he's sent and will be using over the course of the next few shows, no doubt.
	So thank you, Sir Jeff Smith.
	Long-term contributor to the show.
	All right.
	What do we have?
	What you got?
	Well, I got something here.
	Yeah, you should have something.
	You know, the Koch brothers.
	Oh, the Koch brothers, the Koch brothers.
	You talked about, you know, they're bailing out.
	They never liked Trump, and they didn't want him to win, and they had all this.
	There's finally Brooks and Shields.
	The Shields have been sidelined for this last show, and they had...
	Somebody.
	I can't remember.
	Ezra Brown or Klein or something.
	I can't remember his name.
	Klein.
	The smarter guy.
	The guy, they should use him.
	They should get rid of Shields.
	The guy's a blithering idiot.
	I sound like an aegis for saying that, but he's just lost it.
	He's lost it.
	All he does is bitch and moan about Trump.
	So they're talking about the Koch brothers and how they don't like Trump and they're bitching about differently.
	He's got some excuse for that, but then it cuts over to Brooks.
	Who actually says something complimentary about Trump after all these years, but what he says has kind of a secondary little meaning that it needs a little discussion.
	Pay for what it wants to do.
	It's interesting the way that these groups are fighting.
	So on the one hand, Donald Trump has given the coax a lot of what they want.
	Not everything.
	But there are a lot of places where there have been convergences.
	Mike Pence is a very close Koch ally.
	A lot of folks in the Trump administration, because Pence had a lot of authority over staffing, have come from that world.
	And there are a lot of things the Trump administration has done on deregulation, on taxes, that they've been quite happy with.
	But then there are parts where Trump has more idiosyncratic personal views, and they've not been.
	The spending thing is fascinating, though, because it's not just Donald Trump.
	Donald Trump doesn't have authority over spending.
	Paul Ryan has been pushing those bills forward.
	Mitch McConnell's been pushing those bills forward.
	So to the extent that they're upset over more than just free trade, they're also upset with Republicans in Congress.
	But there's a way that it gets identified and personified in Donald Trump that strikes me as a little bit convenient.
	They don't really want to be at cross-purposes with people they otherwise like.
	But it's not Donald Trump making all these spending decisions.
	There's one area where I agree with Trump, and that's on how you win elections.
	The Koch method is you pour billions of dollars into different congressional races.
	Their record is terrible.
	They do well when Republicans do well.
	They do terribly in years when Republicans do terribly.
	There's not a lot of evidence that their method is really a great method for winning elections.
	Donald Trump, just strong message, and a guy with a Facebook and a Twitter account.
	And so it's not the big structure.
	It's not the big money.
	I would say in a media age like we're in now, actually the Trump way of winning elections is a better way than the Koch way.
	Well, all right.
	Very astute.
	In 2016...
	It's astute except it has an issue.
	Yeah.
	It's anti-media.
	Ooh, yes.
	Good point.
	That is an anti-media message.
	Because you're taking away their core cash cow is any election.
	Yeah, and so they want the Coke good method.
	They don't care whether it works or not.
	They just want to bitch about the Cokes and all the – most of the media has the following message because they're taking the money.
	PBS is not taking that money, but they get it in a roundabout way.
	So they still shouldn't be saying this, and he's risking his career on the TV by saying this.
	By saying that, you know, well, you don't need to spend all that money.
	What?
	Yes, you do.
	You don't have to spend all that money.
	He said it on PBS. Yes, but they get a lot of underwriting.
	That's the same thing, if you remember our real basic analysis here.
	Yes, underwriting, advertising.
	The model is spend a lot of money.
	Bitch and moan about campaign finance reform and make a big...
	Yeah, you bitch and moan about it.
	You don't stop it.
	You just bitch and moan.
	We need more!
	Oh my God, they spent more.
	They're going to spend $2 billion this year.
	Oh my God, the finance reform is necessary.
	And you bitch about it and it says, they're spending $2 billion.
	We've got to spend $2 billion.
	So it's the whole thing is a scam to get more money in the coffers.
	I wish we could find the Les Moonves clip where he's at a quarterly...
	I think it's a quarterly...
	Earnings announcement and he goes on about how great his last election was because of all the money being spent.
	I think it refers to the Romney Obama election.
	No, no, no, no.
	It was Moonvest talking to shareholders specifically about how Trump was great for advertising.
	It was during the primaries.
	Let me see.
	Moonvest.
	I thought we had that somewhere.
	Yeah, here it is.
	Here it is.
	Ah, we've got it.
	The advertising climate couldn't be better right now, and I've never seen it this hot for a number of years.
	Third quarter scatter was phenomenally good, and fourth is even better than that.
	So as the year ends and we move into 16...
	Guess what?
	In 2016, we have an extra AFC playoff game, we have the Super Bowl, and we have a year of political advertising.
	That looks like it's shaping up to be pretty phenomenal.
	We love having all 16 Republican candidates throwing crap at each other.
	It's great.
	The more they spend, the better it is for us.
	Go Donald.
	Keep getting out there.
	This is fun.
	Watching this, let them spend money on us.
	We love having them in there.
	We're looking forward to a very exciting political year in 16.
	That was an investor's call is what it was.
	Yeah, well, this is a good example.
	That was one of the few times where I should get something like that on tape.
	Like he said, go Donald, Mr.
	Hashtag Me Too.
	Grab him by the pussy, Don!
	He wasn't expecting it.
	This is during the primaries.
	Of course he wasn't expecting it.
	This is like old tweets coming back, this show.
	Hey, we got a clip of you, Moonves.
	But that's the model, and so when you start talking about the Koch brothers being marginalized and their method doesn't work, you should just have a message and a couple of social media accounts, nobody wants to hear that.
	They want the old model, and the model is, and I'll say it again, spend a lot of money, more and more money.
	That's how you win.
	You win by spending a lot of money.
	Oh, and we need campaign finance reform because people are spending too much money.
	We've got to stop it.
	We can't afford it.
	And then you don't do anything.
	The Wall Street Journal had a pretty good article about Moonves.
	And the title of it was, CBS Scandal is Neatly Timed.
	Exactly what we discussed.
	That it appears this could be Sherry Redstone's play.
	I would believe that.
	That's what the Wall Street Journal concluded after listening to the show.
	And I have a little update on Harvey Weinstein, as there was some news from his court case where he can be sentenced to effectively a life-term sentence.
	And I think he's going to get off.
	I don't think he's going to go to jail at all.
	I think he's gonna walk too.
	Yeah, I think so.
	Here we go.
	He was once the most famous film producer in Hollywood, but outrage over Harvey Weinstein's alleged crimes have left him infamous and kicked off the Me Too movement, leading many women to speak out against sexual misconduct in the workplace.
	Mr.
	Weinstein has already appeared in court, accused of sexually assaulting three women, which he denies.
	But now his lawyer is trying to get the entire case thrown out, saying in part that the jury hasn't been told the full story.
	The defense says that dozens of emails dating from weeks up to four years after an alleged rape in 2013 that were exchanged between Weinstein and an accuser show that they had a long-term, consensual, His defense team is attempting to have the other charges thrown out of court on technical grounds Mr.
	Weinstein's lawyers claim some charges aren't detailed enough and that they weren't sufficiently notified about others.
	They also claim the case was rushed to court under pressure from politicians and the media, as actresses like Gwyneth Paltrow lined up to say that he had behaved inappropriately with them.
	Harvey Weinstein was once a Hollywood heavy hitter, but now, with a charge that could see him locked away for life and nearly 100 women publicly accusing him, fame has turned to infamy.
	You know, somewhere else in the court proceedings, and so the email that the emails are talking about is one of his accusers who they only wanted to identify by her initials, which was JM. Oh, man, how hard is it to figure out?
	That's Julianne Moore.
	Um...
	That apparently there was a 10-year-long email relationship and she's saying very flattering things and very nice to Harvey.
	But that was not introduced.
	The jury never saw that, the grand jury, when the case was introduced to them.
	So I would say that's pretty important evidence.
	More importantly, I was talking to Steve Pchenik last week.
	Yeah, and a typical Pachennic call, and we talk about stuff, and then we're talking about the movie of my life, and I love him for saying that.
	He's got a great story.
	He knows Harvey very well.
	He's always pitching me.
	He knows Harvey really well, because of the NetForce series and all the work, the co-writing, or as he would say, almost all the writing for the, what's his face?
	Yeah, you know what I'm talking about.
	No.
	Hey, the writer.
	Come on.
	Good writer.
	Pchenik wrote all these books for him.
	Clear and present danger guy.
	Clancy, Clancy, Clancy, Clancy, Clancy.
	Yeah, the insurance salesman.
	Yeah, Clancy.
	Yeah, so Pachanek was out there in Hollywood a lot while they were shooting TV series, etc.
	And so again, you know, Pachanek's like, do the movie of your life?
	I don't want to.
	I don't want to blow Harvey Weinstein to get a movie.
	Oh, he says.
	He says, I can say this.
	He says, Harvey's just an ugly Jewish boy.
	And women were throwing himself at him.
	He's not a rapist.
	Coming from Pachanek, that's a pretty strong statement.
	There had to be an element of women throwing themselves at him.
	I don't think it's deniable.
	If you have the kind of power that he finally achieved, where he could make or break your career and put you in a movie and make you a star, There's a lot of women – and I'm not saying all women or there's a lot of – there's also some super talented women that would never do this under a million years and some that are even less talented would never do it.
	But there's some women that would just throw themselves at someone because they consider themselves – they'd actually consider, well, look, I can manipulate this guy to get me a job.
	I use my – Feminine wiles to do the trick and, you know, bat in the eye, bat, bat, bat.
	You know, women will take a bat.
	I always tell women to go do this.
	Go bat your eyes at the guy and you watch her, they'll do it.
	Bat, bat, bat, bat.
	Do you give this advice to your daughter?
	Is that what you tell Jay?
	No, I don't give my daughter.
	Just bat your eyes at him, Jay.
	Everything will be fine.
	Trust your old man.
	I never said it to my daughter.
	But I could tell her that.
	I say, bat your eye, bat, bat.
	So, you do that.
	Well, I would say that men and women do this.
	Anyone who doesn't think that happened is naive.
	And in gay Hollywood it happens too.
	A lot.
	Yeah.
	I've been propositioned by Hollywood types.
	Sadly, only the gay guys.
	Yeah.
	If you were a big shot producer, you would have gotten both sides of it.
	Possibly.
	I don't know.
	But I'm just saying that that made me second think this and look back at all the evidence and really it's hard to have evidence and I don't want to take anything away from anybody but I think the guy will walk.
	I don't think there's enough against him.
	I think in fact there's probably enough for him Uh, that, uh, is going to be very, it's going to be a shitty conversation if, if people really talk about it, if it, if a lot of it comes out, because yeah, some, some women are, and it's going to be beside herself if this guy gets off.
	Yes.
	And, uh, no pun intended.
	Yeah.
	And, uh, it's possible because the guy is a storyteller.
	Not a writer, but a storyteller, because he knows how to get these things done correctly.
	I have to say, The King's Speech was Harvey Weinstein's best work.
	It was a phenomenal movie.
	And it was really him who put that together and made that work.
	He will get back into the business, because that's his business.
	What else is he going to do?
	Sit around and mope?
	No.
	He'll do the apology tour, get away with it, put himself back into a position of power, and then he's going after his enemies.
	And that includes Paltrow, everybody on that list.
	They're all, except for Streep.
	Yeah, Streep still hasn't really said anything, has she?
	She probably didn't do anything.
	And you know why?
	Because she probably knows she may be coming from the same school.
	It's like, well, sorry, he may be a bad boy, but here's what...
	I'm sure someone will accuse me of being an apologist.
	I'm just exploring different angles, which is what we luckily can do on this show since there's no one here to cut us off because the advertisers won't like it.
	Yeah.
	I'm not going to say that you're full of crap on this one.
	Because you're not.
	This is actually what's going to happen.
	Yeah, I think so too.
	I think he's going to get off.
	I think he's going to walk.
	I think he's going to do his apology tour.
	He's going to be on all the talk shows because he's going to be kind of the interesting guest of the month.
	It'll go on and on.
	Then he's going to do a couple of small independent films done by up-and-comers with a bunch of new talent.
	And then he's going to start making – the skills that he has is nothing that you can just – it's not like – It's not like falling off a log.
	It takes a lot of time and energy.
	It's like Mel Gibson.
	Mel Gibson's back now.
	It's okay.
	This is what I will say, almost regardless of the crime, whatever you do in America, you always get a second chance.
	Yeah, unless you're in prison.
	Right.
	Unless you're locked up.
	Yeah, like Professor Ted.
	No second chance for Professor Ted.
	No.
	No.
	It's not going to happen.
	No.
	It won't.
	Let us see now.
	Ooh!
	This was Washington Post.
	No clip, just a little mention here.
	I had a theory about Kavanaugh, Brett Kavanaugh, based upon some clips that we know that Trump's sister recommended a different person, and that person ticked all the boxes, but they went with Kavanaugh anyway, and my suspicion is he's doing it to open up the can of worms about Clinton and Vince Foster.
	And the Washington Post is already diving in headfirst.
	After investigating Clinton Whitehouse and Vincent Foster's death, Brett Kavanaugh had a change of heart.
	So of all the papers in the country, the suckers?
	Yep, they fell for it.
	It's the WAPO? Yep, they jumped headfirst.
	Full article all about what happened, about Starr and what Kavanaugh's role was and the controversy over the gunshot in Fort Marcy Park.
	They're ahead of the game.
	They're dredging it up now.
	When do we start with the confirmation hearings?
	Isn't that soon?
	It's got to be soon, isn't it?
	It's got to be within the next couple of weeks.
	Yeah.
	So we'll see.
	We might be right on this one.
	We'll see.
	It's possible.
	I'm looking at the WAPO has this thing people might want to subscribe to because you have to have some armor because it's just a Trump-hating thing.
	And money.
	And you need money.
	No, no, not for this newsletter.
	You just can't go beyond the newsletter.
	Then you have to subscribe.
	Although it seems with Brave you can get past most of these.
	Yeah, you can get through some of them.
	It's called the Post Most.
	And it's all just Trump hate.
	Trump, Trump, Trump.
	And here's the one.
	Yes, really.
	And so...
	This headline was at the top of the list and it's in bigger type fonts.
	It says the following.
	Trump had a precarious moment in his presidency, privately brooding and publicly roaring.
	That's the headline.
	I just read the first sentence.
	It goes, the president, anxious about the Russian probe and the legal fate of his son, increasingly channels his frustrations into public appearances.
	And then they go on about Yeah, exactly.
	This is what he's been doing.
	This is what he did before he got elected.
	This is what he's been doing after he got elected.
	What is new about this?
	And by the way, people, somebody said, well, he's just campaigning.
	This is ridiculous.
	He keeps doing this.
	He's not running for anything.
	This is what I, on Twitter.
	And I didn't want to get into it, but what I was thinking was, We used to talk about this with Obama all the time.
	Yes, he would consistently be on the road, out there, doing campaigns.
	Even after he was re-elected, he would keep doing it.
	And he was good at it.
	Yeah, he was good at it, and Trump is good at these hour-long...
	Although, someone needs to work on staging.
	I don't know if you saw Saturday's speech...
	Right behind the president, for us, for the viewers right to the president left, were two girls who looked like the girls in The Shining.
	It was frightening.
	Did you see that?
	I saw those two girls, yes.
	That was crazy scary.
	Yeah, and they were twins or something.
	They're from The Shining, I'm telling you.
	I'm expecting Jack Nicholson to show up.
	Here's Johnny!
	It was scary.
	It was like, they would clap once in a while.
	I didn't watch the whole speech, I just watched some parts of it.
	But it was the same.
	Actually, this is one of the few speeches I started to watch.
	CNN was running it online.
	And I'm thinking, why are they doing that?
	Because it's just a bunch of anti-CNN material, but okay.
	Right.
	So they're running it, and I actually got kind of bored with it about half, probably before halfway through, but I saw those two girls, and they would randomly clap.
	They really didn't smile.
	They weren't whooping it up.
	They weren't having much fun, it looked like.
	Yeah, I agree with you.
	Need to work on the staging.
	That was the big problem.
	I don't know whose kids they were, but that was not a good look.
	I almost think it's first, he kind of talks about the whole thing being first come, first serve.
	Could be.
	I don't know if they even staged it that way.
	You know what?
	I don't think so.
	Because these things are tight.
	I love how the audio is really tight.
	It always wraps up.
	And I think he should work on this.
	But, okay, it's working for him.
	We'll make America safe again.
	We'll make America strong again.
	We'll make America rich again.
	We'll make America great again.
	Boom!
	You can't always get what you want.
	I mean, that is tight.
	They jam that right on top of him.
	So someone's doing staging well.
	Well, they say, yeah, and he cues it, so it works.
	Oh, yeah, he totally cues it.
	Well, let's talk about some Trump hate and really hate against specifically CNN and Jim Acosta.
	I have a couple of clips that I think we should discuss.
	And we should point out that this rally where he was so afraid and saying CNN sucks, CNN sucks, and he was just fearing for his life, for his safety.
	Put the page in the show notes because there's really no audio that's of any use.
	But, you know, yeah, there's the video of the people yelling CNN sucks.
	But then there's a video where he's half off that podium doing selfies, handing out autographs.
	You know, he's so afraid.
	So this is a complete charade.
	As far as I know, and I'm no journo, is you never want to be the story.
	You really don't.
	And Jim Acosta is just chubbing over being the story.
	He loves being the story.
	And he's not really a journo.
	Does he have any real journo credits?
	He's just a yeller.
	Let me see.
	Jim Acosta.
	We should look at this.
	We should look at his wiki page.
	Now we call that consulting the book of knowledge.
	Consulting!
	Media career, radio guy.
	Does he have any awards?
	It doesn't mean anything.
	He's basically a talking head.
	He's been on the radio, then he went on television.
	Well, it says he never wrote...
	What radio?
	Was he a top 40 DJ? What was he doing?
	It doesn't say.
	His first show was WMAL. Hey, it's the Mal.
	It's the WMAL. That's AM News Talk Radio.
	Washington, D.C., 10,000 watts in the daytime.
	He was a reporter and a substitute anchor, remained in that job until 98.
	So he's a newsreader.
	Good, he's a newsreader.
	He's a newsreader.
	But he's really doing the job very well, so CNN continues to interchange free press with press.
	With CNN, with the media, with enemy of the people, whereas the quote still remains, actually it has been expanded, fake news like CNN. That is now the definition of the enemy of the people.
	Fake news like CNN. Or CNN fake news.
	It's CNN specifically that Trump is now calling out.
	Am I correct?
	Well, he does call them out, yes.
	He'll say everybody, but he never really calls out MSNBC. No, no, never does.
	It's always CNN. So Jim Acosta, you know, I had everyone yelling, CNN sucks, oh boy, I'm so scared, and I've been in these situations, it's not that scary, and these people weren't mad and ready to lynch you.
	But April Ryan certainly thought so, and she was on with Don Lemon, and they had a very thoughtful convo about it.
	I'm sure this is very different.
	Do you sit in that room, again, as I said, the most esteemed podium in the world?
	The most esteemed podium in the world?
	Really?
	I can think of some, you know, how about the Oscar stage?
	Would that be more esteemed?
	Or is this the one?
	Do you just sit there and say, I cannot believe that someone is standing here lying to the American media and the American people or trying to gaslight them?
	Is it surreal to you to sit there every day?
	Because it's surreal to watch on TV. Hold on a second.
	Why go in?
	Why go in?
	She's with the Black National Broadcasters Association.
	What is she going in for?
	There's a bunch of just lie, lie, lie, lie.
	What's the point?
	I can sit at home and eat a hamburger.
	I'll tell you why.
	I'll tell you why.
	Woodward and Bernstein.
	And this is a way that the journos who do not go into war-torn areas can still say that they're in danger every day of their lives.
	That's what this is about.
	We're in danger too back at home.
	It's dangerous here.
	To the American media and the American people or trying to gaslight them.
	Is it surreal to you to sit there every day?
	Don, I'm going to say this to you.
	Today when she said that I couldn't believe when she was talking about, you know, how we get leaked information.
	We don't just, as the press, we don't just walk into an office and open files and take leaked information and report it.
	Our sources are giving it to us.
	Giving it to us willingly.
	Because they're whistleblowers.
	Ah, hold on a second.
	Now she's saying that these anonymous sources are whistleblowers?
	To me...
	Well, she started off with a performative.
	Why would a reporter use a performative by saying...
	You're asking me a question, I'm a reporter, and I say, well, I'm going to say this to you.
	That's exactly what she said.
	That's a performative, which may not be what she believes, but that's just what she's saying to you.
	Yeah, I'm going to say this to you, and then she says something, which could be, I don't know, this is what she's going to say.
	It's got nothing to do with anything necessarily.
	So why is she doing that?
	And for her to assume or to say that we are just gathering it and we're wrong, no.
	She's not.
	She's changing the facts.
	And if you want to say she's lying, she's lying.
	And I agree with that.
	It was shameful today.
	That podium is no place to play.
	You don't play with words.
	You don't play with moments.
	Everything comes to the White House from water to peace and everything in between.
	That's a serious moment in a serious place.
	And Jim Acosta's life...
	In my opinion, was in jeopardy that night.
	There was a safety issue.
	There was a safety issue.
	And, you know, she gets run out of a hen house a couple of weeks ago and gets Secret Service detail.
	That wasn't a safety issue.
	We don't have secret service details.
	That's what I'm saying.
	And this president, this president, President Donald J. Trump, has stoked the flames for reporters to feel like they are in jeopardy.
	Their lives, their safety is in jeopardy.
	Their lives are in jeopardy at these rallies.
	Mm-hmm.
	And something has got to stop.
	She gets taxpayer-funded.
	She gets taxpayer-funded security for something that she stokes.
	But yet it's okay.
	It's freedom of speech for us.
	It is not right.
	And I talked to Ari Fleischer, former White House press secretary under George W. Bush, and we had our back and forth quite a bit.
	And I've had back and forths with even Robert Gibbs.
	But it was always a friendly, adversarial situation.
	It was never personal.
	This has now gone beyond politics.
	This has gone into life.
	Life!
	This has gone into changing lives.
	Life!
	Here's the thing that I have to say.
	A couple of things here.
	Number one, we don't bring...
	This is Don, the serious, intellectual Don.
	I really like his couple of things here.
	I've got my glasses on, so you should take me kind of serious as the overnight sensation.
	Begrudge her security or anyone who has secrets.
	Oh, I'm not begrudging her.
	Apparently they need it and many journalists need it now because of what this president and this administration are doing now.
	I'm raising my hand.
	I'm one of those.
	I'm raising my hand.
	A lot of us are.
	Oh, everybody needs security.
	A lot of us are.
	Hello, security.
	You know, it started with lock her up, you know, build a wall and all of these.
	Build a wall?
	How is that bad to your security?
	Lock her up.
	That's not bad for journalists.
	Unseemly chance, and now it's CNN sucks.
	It's not about...
	But I don't think Trump ever started any of those.
	He encourages them.
	I don't think he started...
	No, he pauses and lets them go.
	Of course, of course.
	Why would you shut that down?
	CNN. It's just about the behavior.
	Like, you're sitting and saying, oh, CNN is whining because they're...
	Hold on a second.
	Stop the thing for a second.
	First of all, she's bitching about the security thing, and now, you know, Sarah gets a...
	The only press woman in the world ever to have to have Secret Service because of the nutballs out there that you guys have stoked.
	Let's don't get into that and definitely don't want to discuss it.
	Hey, CNN is a huge operation.
	They can afford to put a detail on this guy if it's that important.
	Yeah, I'm sure they do.
	You got money?
	I'm sure they do.
	Yeah, they got plenty of money.
	They can put a detail on this guy if he's really under some sort of a, they have to worry about it.
	Or they could take him off that assignment and maybe put somebody else there.
	There's plenty of people.
	This guy, from the looks of his wiki page, he's not no big thing.
	How are the ratings for CNN? Are they completely in the crapper?
	Yeah.
	Are they okay?
	Yeah, they're no good?
	In the crapper, sure.
	So this is Jeff Zucker's idea of a ratings bonanza, perhaps.
	They're talking about it like MH13 or MH370, whatever it was.
	Yeah.
	The missing one.
	The missing one.
	Lock her up.
	You know, build a wall.
	And all of these unseemly chants, and now it's CNN sucks.
	It's not about...
	Yeah, it is.
	What do you mean?
	It's about CNN. No one's chanting MSNBC sucks.
	They're only saying CNN. Should be a clue.
	Lock her up, you know, build a wall, and all of these unseemly chants, and now it's CNN sucks.
	It's not about...
	CNN. It's just about the behavior.
	Like, they're sitting and saying, oh, CNN is whining because they're...
	It's not...
	If they had said about any other network or any other person in the crowd or any other entity, we would be having this conversation because this is supposed to be a dignified, respectful place to do the American people.
	And you listen to these guys go at each other, this dignified...
	Are you kidding me when they have these ten people and they have, what's her name, that one woman, that real...
	The Cuban woman who just claims to be a Republican.
	Anna Navarro.
	Navarro, she is the...
	That's dignified?
	Are you kidding me?
	Rob Reiner, pretty dignified, I think, the way he came across.
	Let's finish this up, the seven seconds.
	It's supposed to be a dignified...
	Respectful.
	By the way, things don't become dignified because you say it like, instead of saying dignified like we say it, you say dignified.
	It's actually patronizing, I think.
	Dignified.
	We would be having this conversation because this is supposed to be a dignified conversation.
	Respectful place to do the American people's business.
	And he says what you're reading and hearing, what you're seeing or whatever, it's not true.
	And so further stoking that.
	Or maybe he just disagrees with your facts.
	So let's hear from the man himself.
	He has a very interesting concept.
	Journals unite!
	First of all, let me just speak on behalf of my CNN colleagues and knowing that no one ever called for the press secretary to be choked or harassed from this network, number one.
	And number two, why can't this White House acknowledge that the media is not the enemy of the people?
	Because they said CNN, fake news, CNN is the enemy of the people.
	Sadly, Brooke, I think what you saw happen here at the end of that briefing was the true feelings of the president, the true feelings of many of the people who work in this administration laid bare.
	They believe, it appears in their heart of hearts, that the journalists who cover this White House, the journalists who work in this city, who were just trying a few moments ago to hold some of these officials accountable about attacks on our democracy, that the people here who work at this White House all the way up to the President evidently believe that journalists are the enemy of the people.
	Literally the enemy of the people.
	I know, now it's journalism.
	How does it go from CNN to the media to journalists?
	I heard this, by the way, and I was very annoyed by it.
	I'm listening to the radio, and they have the hour news break, and it's CBS. CBS News on the Hour.
	CBS News on the Hour.
	And the guy says, he's talking about some brouhaha, and he says, and we know the president said that the media is the enemy.
	They just make that quote out of the blue.
	Yep.
	And I'm thinking, just the whole...
	Complex is trying to pound this home.
	Now, here's the problem they have, the way I see it.
	Yeah, he didn't say that.
	He didn't.
	But even if you claim that he did say it and you keep pounding that he said it and he said it, how is this helping you?
	You got lousy numbers in public opinion polls, the media does, the mass media, the big boys, the M5Ms.
	You got lousy numbers.
	The president's Saying bad things about CNN and you're taking it on as they're saying bad things about you.
	So you created this quote that the media is the enemy.
	And journalists.
	And now journalists.
	And the president is the one, no matter who he is, it could be anybody, who leads kind of the social norms of a country.
	You're making yourself the enemies.
	This is madness.
	We have to the president.
	Evidently believe that journalists are the enemy of the people.
	Literally the enemy of the people.
	Literally the enemy.
	This is getting worse.
	Let's double down.
	Journalists.
	You should call your LibJoes.
	Hey!
	You better move.
	I know where you are.
	You're the enemy of the people.
	And I gave Sarah, as you saw there, except for Ivanka Trump.
	And I tried to pose that question to say, you know, listen, the president's daughter, his own daughter, said no.
	She doesn't think that...
	Can you imagine someone in a business argument with you, or maybe an editor, and saying to you, listen, Dvorak, your own daughter doesn't even think the way you do.
	How would you respond to that?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, okay.
	You're the enemy.
	And you saw it unfold there.
	I was giving Sarah several opportunities there to set the record straight.
	And she just flat refused.
	And I think what you can obviously see is that she's taken a lot of what she's experienced very personally.
	I don't blame her for that, my goodness.
	She has taken on a lot.
	But at the same time, she also has...
	Come up here to this podium on a regular basis and continue to tell the American people provable falsehoods, lies, and so on.
	And unfortunately, our job as journalists, as you know, Brooke...
	That podium, more lies have taken place at that podium throughout history than any other place.
	That's what happens.
	It's a big lie.
	Of course, it's propaganda.
	It's spin.
	Go for Tomkin, baby.
	Go for Tomkin.
	He hasn't pulled that stunt yet.
	Not yet.
	We have to call that stuff out.
	We have to fact check them.
	We're fact checkers in real time.
	Fact checkers in real time, John.
	That's a radio jock.
	Hi everybody, I'm Jim Acosta, fact checker in real time.
	We're talking about business card.
	How you doing?
	Hey, hey, my daddy wants a beetle.
	How you doing?
	And so on.
	And unfortunately, you know, our job as journalists, as you know, Brooke, is we have to call that stuff out.
	We have to fact check them.
	We're fact checkers in real time.
	dealing with this president because he tells falsehoods and lies so much.
	And, you know, it's unfortunate that the position that we're all in right now, and I'm standing in this briefing room right now, there is no government official here, but I'll say that the press is not the enemy of the people.
	No, that's not, I mean, that wasn't in the question, Jim Acosta.
	No, I think, you know, maybe we should make some bumper stickers.
	Oh!
	Let's take some notes here.
	Hold on a second.
	There's some stuff we need to do, John.
	You're a journo.
	Are you a journo?
	I should mention the Newseum on the side of Washington, D.C. had a t-shirt for sale saying, you're fake.
	That they had to take out of the museum store.
	You're fake?
	Yeah, as in fake news.
	It's a museum.
	It's the museum.
	Yes, I know.
	I'm familiar with the museum, but it's not even funny.
	No, it's not funny, but it was a shirt that they were selling for some unknown reason, and some journalist came in and said, wait a minute.
	We don't want these shirts out and about and about.
	Yeah.
	Well, apparently bumper stickers are the way to go.
	And this is where Acosta makes a very feeble attempt to rally journos from coast to coast.
	That the press is not the enemy of the people.
	And, you know, I think maybe we should make some bumper stickers.
	Make some buttons.
	You know, maybe we should go out on Pennsylvania Avenue like these folks who chant CNN sucks and fake news.
	Maybe we should go out, all journalists should go out on Pennsylvania Avenue and chant we're not the enemy of the people.
	Yeah, that's gonna work.
	We're not the enemy of the people!
	We're not the enemy of the people!
	I mean, how can you make a chant out of it?
	Two, four, six, eight, who do we appreciate?
	We're not the enemy of the people!
	That doesn't work.
	No, that doesn't work.
	Let me try some other one.
	Mic check, mic check, mic check.
	Okay, um...
	What do we want it?
	We're not the enemy of the people.
	What do we want?
	Not the enemy of the people.
	When do we want it?
	We want it now.
	Not the enemy of the people.
	I don't know, Jim.
	Give me the bumper sticker.
	What's on the bumper sticker?
	It's going to be across my entire bumper.
	CNN is not the enemy of the people, nor are journos or journalists and freepressfreedomrules.com.
	Okay, good idea, Jim.
	Because I'm tired of this.
	Honestly, Brooke, I'm tired of this.
	It is not right.
	It is not fair.
	It is not just.
	It is un-American to come out here and call the press the enemy of the people.
	And Ivanka Trump knows that.
	I don't know what...
	Ivanka Trunk is...
	Trunk.
	Ivanka Trunk is a dumb ditz one day to these guys and the next...
	She's so obviously genius.
	She understands.
	She's either a ditz or a genius.
	What is she?
	Her father doesn't.
	Make up your mind.
	And I don't know why this press secretary doesn't.
	I mean, she got yelled at at a restaurant in Virginia.
	I'm sorry about that.
	I feel badly for her that that happened.
	Get the whole story.
	Yeah, well...
	That's a lie.
	It's a lie.
	It's a lie.
	We're fact-checking in real time here.
	That's a lie, Jim Acosta.
	I don't even think she got yelled at.
	She just got kicked out.
	She got hounded.
	Hounded!
	They followed her family.
	They hounded her.
	It's a lie.
	It's a lie.
	And I don't know why this press secretary doesn't.
	I mean, she got yelled at at a restaurant in Virginia.
	I'm sorry about that.
	I feel badly for her that that happened.
	That's actually Jim conflating two different events.
	Yeah, yeah, no, Sarah never got yelled at.
	Good work, Giorno.
	Lie!
	You lie!
	You lie!
	Lie!
	Fact check, false!
	Lie!
	Fact check, false!
	Not a comedian, a correspondence to her said some unpleasant things about her.
	I'm sorry about that.
	She ought to hear some of the things that were said to me the other night in Tampa.
	She ought to read some of the things that are said about my colleagues on CNN. On a regular basis.
	It would be nice if we all...
	Why don't you go to Reddit and see what they say about me, douche.
	...forward the temperature a little bit, but at the very least, I think we should all be able to agree on one thing, and that is the press is not the enemy of the people.
	Fellow Americans are not the enemy of fellow Americans.
	Oh, now it's...
	Tell that to Rob Reiner.
	We've taken it down to fellow Americans now.
	So it's gone from fake news, fake news CNN, CNN, journalists, journos, American people.
	On a regular basis.
	It would be nice if we all lowered the temperature a little bit, but at the very least, I think we should all be able to agree on one thing, and that is the press is not the enemy of the people.
	Fellow Americans are not the enemy of fellow Americans.
	Forgive me for going on a rant, but I think that they've lost sight of that here at this White House.
	Let me say amen.
	Amen.
	Forgive me if I went on a rant here.
	That's the whole reason you're there, Jim.
	Jim Acosta.
	Well, fine.
	I'll wrap this up with some serious hate, and it's serious because it's from NPR, so we always know that they're very serious.
	This is, once again, the weekly news rundown.
	Jack Beattie has got to be my favorite guy, and having just watched the movie based upon your recommendation, it's an apropos clip, I watched The Death of Stalin, and I liked it very much.
	Thank you for that, Recco.
	Thank you.
	I'm glad I gave the recco.
	Yeah, the recco was groovy.
	It was not...
	You said it's a comedy.
	It is a comedy, but it is indeed a very British comedy where just everything is a...
	It's almost like a Monty Python sketch in a way.
	You know what I mean?
	Michael Palin was in it.
	Well, that would have something to do with it.
	But you know what I mean?
	It's not like laughing out loud hilariously like a stand-up.
	It was, I don't know even what to call it.
	It was not a laugh-out-loud comedy, even though there were some laugh-out-loud moments, a couple.
	Usually where they're shooting somebody.
	What did he say?
	Oh, no more lists.
	Oh, sorry.
	Or how about when Stalin is dead and he's crapped his...
	Or he's in a coma and he's crapped his pants and pissed everywhere.
	And he's in a pool of pee.
	And everybody keeps kneeling in it like, oh, jeez.
	No one wants to touch him because there's pee everywhere.
	I mean, that was comedically funny.
	I thought that was very, very good.
	But also, historically, it's interesting to watch this movie...
	Just to kind of see what the Stalin period was about from one particular viewpoint.
	Kind of, I would say, over-compressed history.
	I mean, there's tons of stuff that wasn't discussed because I ended up reading about all these guys.
	And Beria wasn't just taken out and summarily shot in the head as they're dragging him out.
	He actually went to an actual trial and then they shot him in the head.
	Right.
	Anyway, so I just brought up Stalin because it's in this clip.
	Here's Jack Beattie.
	We're back to The Week in Hating Trump.
	So it was interesting at the podium yesterday at the White House, Sarah Sanders speaking about this.
	She said, quote, the media has attacked me personally on a number of occasions, including your own network.
	Here she's speaking about CNN. When I hosted...
	The Correspondence Association, there was a comedian there.
	She talked about attacking her appearance, called her a traitor to her gender.
	In fact, Jack Beattie, she's the first press secretary in the history of the U.S. that's required Secret Service protection.
	So there she is, Sarah Sanders, saying, you know, there are two sides to this story here, Jack.
	Yes, but the Washington Post looks at her claims, and on the comedian, they point out that the journalists themselves were alarmed and expressed dismay over the comedian's comments, and on other things that Sarah...
	The best that they could point to would be comments someone made on cable television, which were taken, at least as the Post lays it out, wildly out of context to allow Sarah to have this moment of self-pity.
	You know, this phrase, enemies of the people, it's a Stalinist phrase.
	Nikita Khrushchev denounced it in his 1956 secret speech.
	To the Communist Party where he was making a sort of, you know, putting the sins of Stalinism out.
	And he said this, that the phrase enemies of the people, quote, was specifically introduced for the purpose of physically annihilating those who disagreed with Stalin.
	Physically annihilating.
	It is a blood-soaked phrase.
	And to apply it to reporters and to the media in a year when we have seen, after all, journalists killed for being journalists, is playing with fire.
	I think we need to add to the Trump rotation, worse than Stalin!
	Well, I don't know if that's any different than Hitler, but okay.
	Well, but specifically with this enemy of the people...
	Yeah, you're probably right, because it's been coming up.
	I heard the Stalin thing much before.
	So it has been coming up.
	It may be in the rotation.
	I'll have to pull that up and make a change.
	It's online.
	What's online?
	The list.
	Oh!
	What's it called?
	Trump Rotation?
	Well, it's under Cosmic Weenie.
	I'm just going to see how...
	That works so well, Trump Rotation.
	Cosmic Weenie slash Trump Rotation dot HTM? That would be one guess.
	Okay, let's see.
	Trump Rotation dot HTM. You don't even know what it is.
	I forgot.
	Well, you should write this down and I'll map a URL to it.
	I'll map a URL, baby.
	It's trump-flaws.htm.
	That's not the name of it.
	That is what it's called on the name of this file.
	Yeah, I can change it.
	Okay, I have it here.
	Well, I don't see Stalin on this.
	No, I said Hitler's on there.
	We had to put Stalin on it.
	That's a nice list.
	Yeah, it's a good list.
	Why is criminal highlighted and emboldened?
	No, the criminal thing is that's a different category and all those underneath it are a secondary category.
	Oh, it's a category.
	When did you stop doing this, Paige?
	Like, why are there no blink tags?
	It needs it.
	I think you could do a...
	Blink tags, I believe, are illegal nowadays.
	Uh-huh.
	No, the blink tag and marquee.
	I don't think so.
	Yes, marquee.
	Marquee is also...
	Marquee, that would be good.
	Yeah, marquee.
	We can have these just scrolling by on the page.
	Very nice.
	All right.
	Anyway, it's an HTM page.
	What do you want?
	That's the best part.
	Dot HTM. I don't know why you find this so amusing.
	All those old Windows hacks use the HTM. Anyway, I have a series of clips if we have time before the next break.
	Well, not really.
	Can we do it after the break?
	We could.
	We could.
	Let's do that.
	I'm going to show my salute by donating to No Agenda.
	Imagine all the people who could do that.
	Oh yeah, that'd be fab.
	Yeah, on No Agenda in the morning.
	We have a few people to thank for a show 10-5-7.
	Starting with Sir Andrew, Protector of the Bound Book.
	Comes in $111.11.
	He's overdue for a contribution, he says.
	John Robinet, $100.
	Peter Arnold III, Burleson, Texas, $100.
	They lost the publishing company.
	Yeah, they did it with a Kickstarter.
	What is it?
	LittlePlatinumBooks.com.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Kids' books.
	Nice.
	For kids' books.
	Nice.
	All right.
	Now we have a couple of 8888s, which is our celebratory.
	This is the 30th anniversary of my marriage.
	And they never had a fight, ladies and gentlemen.
	Never.
	And this was happening on Wednesday.
	Yeah.
	And it'll be followed by a meet-up in Seattle at Vaughn's 1000.
	Are you going to be there?
	Yeah.
	Oh, nice.
	So Seattle's going to have the big meet-up on Friday, Friday night in Seattle.
	Excellent.
	Yeah.
	Excellent.
	And anyone who's on the mailing list will get the final details.
	But what are you guys doing for your anniversary?
	We're going to have a big giant dinner with a bunch of friends over at the house up north.
	You are smacking your lips a lot this morning.
	Thank you.
	It's odd that I'm saying it to you, but are you going to drink that wine?
	Oh, I know why it is.
	Because I don't know why it is now.
	It's just a thought I knew.
	Pro-dent?
	Yeah, that's it.
	Are you going to drink that wine?
	Do you still have one of those bottles of that wine, the crazy 888 wine?
	Did you have that?
	We have a lot of wines from 1988, the Bordeaux.
	Yes, but we're going to have so many people, we're probably going to open some major giant bottle.
	Save some in a Tupperware for me.
	But anyway, so that's 8888.
	We'll talk about the meetup a little more on the Thursday show, but the show, Friday will be the meetup.
	Vons, I think it's called Vons 1000.
	It's a drinking club that allows kids to drink food and drinks.
	Very good.
	6 to 8.
	That'll be fun.
	V-O-N is the name.
	Jesse Simonin, 8888.
	Congratulations.
	Congratulations.
	He's also going to be...
	He is going to be a knight.
	Yes, he's going to be Sir Sapien, Knight of the Infinite Knight.
	Oh, and he wants a warm beer and cold women.
	Why?
	Well, it says it right there.
	Read it while I'm putting that in.
	I know, but I'm just saying.
	Warm beer and...
	But no, he says why.
	Oh, he says why.
	Yeah, look at the note.
	In honor of the man overboard, Tom Waits, ITM, and thank you for encouraging, I guess.
	Okay.
	Mark Hampton, 8888.
	Sir Chris Barron of Carson Valley in Gardnerville, Nevada, 8888.
	Sir Zachary Barron of the Bluff City, 8888.
	These are all 8888s.
	I'll just read it.
	Names and locations.
	Allen Sibley in Muskegon, Michigan.
	Robert Cohen in Virginia Beach, Virginia.
	If any of you Michiganians can get a hold of the Abdul for governor, I think, or Abdul for...
	I think he's running for governor.
	You promised, along with this donation, I see a number of people saying, yes, I want one, to send people out an autographed photo.
	Yeah.
	Now, is this a view in Mimi?
	Yeah.
	I want one.
	Are you on this list?
	I don't care.
	I want one.
	I want it signed.
	And I want a lipstick kiss from Mimi.
	And it's going on my wall of fame.
	You're just going to use it on my wall of fame.
	Yes.
	You're going to use it on your dartboard.
	No.
	No.
	I think it's fantastic.
	I have a...
	One bathroom, the guest bathroom, was all my old MTV pictures, the ones I still have left.
	And I think you and Mimi should be there as like celebs, like some New York steakhouse, you know?
	And I went, love ya, love ya.
	Probably, now that you're going to do that, I'm going to fancy up the picture with a little Photoshop.
	Yeah, okay, that's fine.
	Keith Harris in Quincy, Illinois.
	I did Robert Cohen, I believe.
	Whatever happened to no gimmicks for donations?
	What is this?
	It's a gimmick.
	It is a gimmick.
	But if you recall, every year that we do this donation for the anniversary, I offer to send a photo.
	The last time I guaranteed it, now I have to do a confirmation.
	Don't you remember?
	Last year, the year before, you get a photo of me and Mimi, and you saw the picture.
	I didn't autograph it, though.
	And this time I said, I'm not going to just give it away.
	And you'll be doing that with your trademark silver Sharpie?
	Maybe, or the gold one.
	Ooh, gold even better.
	And it's going to take about a month.
	Just in time for the release of the book.
	Keith Harris, H-E-E-R-E-S in Quincy, Illinois, 8888.
	Sir Latte, Knight of the Bremelos in Bremerton, Washington.
	What about the Bremelos?
	It sounds like a men's choir.
	Yes, the Tremelos.
	Yeah, but they're in Bremerton, so it'd be the Bremelos.
	Yes.
	Sir Hamus in Mooresville, North Carolina.
	Boy Anonymous in Phoenix, Arizona.
	What's the autograph photo?
	Jeff Coleman.
	Autograph, please.
	Call out Ronnie Lane as a douchebag.
	Okay.
	Jeff Coleman is in Winona, Minnesota.
	Sir Tyler Fox, Baron of Aviation in Cedar Park, Texas.
	Yes.
	Oh, man.
	I got to fly with him.
	Yeah?
	Yeah, he's got a Mooney.
	Oh, a Mooney.
	It's like a jet fighter.
	They're great.
	I've been in a Mooney.
	Yeah?
	It's kind of tiny, and you sit very low in the Mooney.
	I was in Iceland.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah.
	And this guy says, you want to go right on the Mooney?
	We'll go over to Westman Island.
	And I said, hell yeah, sure.
	And he says, watch the way this thing takes off.
	So he goes to the beginning of the runway, and he drives off the runway about, I don't know, not more than 20 feet into the gravel.
	And so he turns around to take off, and he takes off in the gravel, and just before we hit the runway, we're in the air.
	Yeah, and Mooney's an amazing aircraft.
	Wait, are you sure that was a Mooney?
	He said it was a Mooney.
	Did it have really big tires?
	Yeah.
	I don't remember about the tires.
	I remember it just...
	I don't know.
	I don't remember much about that there was blue and white.
	Well, Sir Tyler Fox, get your gravel ready.
	We're going to see if we can replicate this stunt.
	It was a quick takeoff.
	Stephanie Bell.
	He did gun it a lot.
	I think you're talking about an otter, honestly.
	He says it's a Mooney.
	I don't know many guys who would put a Mooney in the gravel...
	Well, it wasn't like knee-deep gravel.
	This must have been an otter.
	Because the otters can take off like 20 feet and they're up in the air.
	Yeah, well, this thing took off pretty quickly.
	Do you have any pictures?
	We'll find out later.
	Let's get back on this track here.
	Stephanie Bell in Bangor in County Down.
	This is Baron Robert Bruck.
	Enjoy your little Mooney ride.
	I'm going to come down and take advantage of that, too.
	With my camera.
	Robert Brugner of the Desert Spraw.
	Don't threaten me.
	Gilbert, Arizona.
	Congrats.
	Scott Floyd in Dayton, California.
	Would love a photo.
	See, not everybody wants one.
	Sir Wood E. in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.
	Thomas Key in Kansas City, Missouri.
	You know how much I actually think about when I thought about this gimmick?
	I said, I don't know.
	Should I do this?
	Okay, I'll do it.
	The worst part is, I know that Mimi is assigned to the fulfillment, and she's going to be on your ass.
	She's not going to be happy.
	No.
	Simon Libuzuski in Karlstadt, New Jersey.
	Carol and Blaney in Toronto, Ontario.
	By the way, there's still time to do the donation on this Wednesday.
	Carol says that 30 is Pearl.
	That's your Pearl anniversary.
	I'm sure Mimi would look great in big old lady Pearls.
	I'm sure she'll enjoy that comment.
	Gregory Lewis in Orland Park, Illinois.
	James Zuckel in Beverly Hills, California.
	Chris Beggio, who has something to say about something.
	Well, he comes in with 88.88.
	He is Kilo 9, Charlie Alpha Bravo, 73s.
	I proudly achieved knighthood, which is more a testament to you both and the quality of the best podcast in the universe.
	The No Agenda Show has given me insight and vision into the agenda of the M5M and, more importantly, their distribution networks like print media, cable TV, and commercial broadcasts and satellite radio.
	I look forward to every episode of the podcast and frequently save the episodes for listening during my backpack-laden 200-floor stair climber workouts at the gym so I get better physical and mental health, and most importantly, happiness.
	And he will be knighted Sir Q of the Fed's name, Ben, and he wants taquitos and taquilla served at the roundtable.
	You know, if you do, I'm thinking of the Pavlov theory where you ring a bell and you do all these things to make somebody react a certain way.
	I think if you work out and work out really hard and start to develop muscles while listening to the show.
	Yeah.
	You can just listen to the show and your muscles grow.
	And it'll just grow.
	Ooh, yes.
	Makes sense.
	That's an interesting point.
	Sir Chart of the Tiny Cars and Emmaus.
	I don't know how to pronounce it.
	Emmaus.
	Emmaus.
	Emmaus, Pennsylvania.
	I'm not sure.
	And finally we wrap it up with Sir Wayne Larcombe of Brisbane, Australia.
	And that concludes our group.
	Oh, and he celebrates the same anniversary date.
	888.
	Ten years.
	He got married on 888.
	We got married on 888.
	But 8 is involved.
	Very good.
	Sean McCall, 6336 in Bloomington, Minnesota.
	Greg in Fort Wayne, Indiana, he actually sent in a note card.
	And it's actually, I put it aside because it might be worth reading.
	My glasses on?
	Don't put on the Q glasses.
	Put the right ones on.
	Yeah, I'll be reading something weird.
	Repentant douchebag here.
	I've been hiding behind the excuse of my small grad school stipend for too long.
	No longer!
	After spending the summer stocking Walmart shells with ungodly amounts of mac and cheese to satiate the hungry slaves, I'm pleased to share some of my earnings with you.
	Academia is a cesspool of TDS. What is that?
	Do you know?
	TDS? Yeah.
	Oh, Trump derangement syndrome.
	Ah!
	Duh.
	TDS and no agenda has been invaluable in helping me maintain my sanity.
	Thank you both for providing a healthy and hilarious alternative to the transparent, shilling, weak analysis, and outrageous alarmism of the M5M. Stay woke!
	Stay woke!
	Stay woke!
	That was a good note.
	Just one of those notes.
	Alan Vivish in Trowbridge, Wiltshire.
	And he says he started listening to the show during the 2016 presidential campaign.
	Has not missed the show since.
	His first and long overdue donation, so he would like a deduce.
	You've been deduced.
	Thank you very much.
	Alan from Trowbridge.
	Sir Tom Dari.
	Dari in DeForest, Wisconsin, 5510.
	Michael Gates, 5280.
	And the following people are all $50 donors, name and location.
	Starting with Matthew Januszewski in Chicago.
	Samuel Cutts in Boulder, Colorado.
	Amy Burlingame in Bergen, New York.
	Hmm.
	Todd Moore in Arlington, Virginia.
	Virginia comes in finally.
	Andrew Martin in Sydney, New South Wales.
	Josh Defabo.
	Scott E. Knight in Lost Wages, Nevada.
	Paul E. Cordelar in Ulmedin.
	I'm out in.
	I'm out in.
	One of these days.
	Yeah, that's the Netherlands.
	I'm out in.
	I'm out in.
	You don't have to yell at it.
	And also those who came in under $50, that's how you can be sure that you're going to be anonymous since no notes or names are read.
	Under $50, so $49.99 works for a lot of people.
	Also people on our layaway nighthoods, our subscriptions, all of it helps.
	Whatever you think the show is worth to you, whatever the value was when you heard it or what you anticipated to be, send that value to us.
	And there's lots of comparative measures you can use in your life.
	Subscriptions to other media outlets.
	Cable, all kinds of stuff.
	Yeah, the $240 a year you pay for your New York Times subscription, which ends up with a lot of recyclables.
	We have upcoming meetings in Seattle, Washington, as we mentioned earlier, August 10th from 6 to 8 p.m.
	at Vons, Victor Oscar November Sierra.
	Vons 1000 Spirits in downtown Seattle.
	And on the 12th, two days later, in Arlington, Virginia, that is 3 p.m.
	at Lion Hall, L-Y-O-N. That seems like it's going to be packed.
	45, you said?
	Registered so far?
	Well, I don't know.
	It just doesn't make...
	I mean, that's a lot of people for one of these meetups.
	It is.
	That's probably a record, really.
	I think you should fly out there to that one.
	And thank you again, everybody.
	Fly out.
	We're going to do a Texas meetup, an Austin meetup.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Why don't you fly out to Arlington?
	I would.
	Well, I don't...
	Except during the show.
	Oh, there you go.
	We have another show coming up on Thursday.
	Please remember us at...
	jobs, jobs, jobs, and jobs.
	Let's vote for jobs!
	You've got karma.
	It's your birthday, birthday!
	Well, the list is...
	Actually, the jingle is longer than the list.
	We have only one birthday, strangely enough, and it's a bladed one.
	Amy Burlingame celebrated her birthday on August 6th, and we say happy birthday to everybody here at the No Agenda Show.
	All right, we do have three nights to do, so let's put down the bongos, get your blade.
	Tim Cato!
	Tim Cato!
	Chris Bezio and Jesse Simonin.
	Come on up!
	All three of you are about to become Knights of the Node in a roundtable thanks to your contributions equaling $1,000 or more, which means you get some cool stuff and a seat right here at the roundtable.
	And I am proud to pronounce the game being Sir Tim of the Tunnels, Sir Q of the Fed's name, Ben, and Sir Sapien, Knight of the Infinite Knight.
	For you, gentlemen, we have...
	Hookers and Blue, Red Boys and Chardonnay, Warm Beer and Cold Women, Taquitos and Taquilla, Single Malt Scotch, Early Times and BF4, Crosship and Cane Breaks, Rubenes Woman and Rosé, Bong Hits and Bourbon, Ginger Ale and Gerbils, Breast Milk and Pavlin, Vodka and Vanilla, and...
	Mutton and mead.
	So head over to noageneration.com slash rings.
	Eric, the show will get you to ring out as soon as he has the size.
	And we have them in inventory and stocks, etc.
	Thank you again for supporting the show.
	It's nice to have this peerage system within us.
	I have some local news.
	Okay.
	From San Francisco.
	Yes, this is about Twitter.
	No, it'll be about poop.
	Well, of course it's about poop.
	Okay, good.
	Well, not just about poop.
	It's about Twitter and poop.
	Twitter's the one that's responsible for the poop outbreak.
	Oh, well, good.
	They are?
	I said this a couple years ago.
	I thought it was plastic bags.
	They're the ones who demanded to get these public toilets off the streets.
	I thought it was the plastic bags that were banned.
	Well, that turns out to be a secondary issue, but they had these public toilets, and they're all around, some of them were near Twitter, and there's so many bums hanging around Twitter, they said, yeah, maybe we get rid of the toilets, they'll get rid of the bums, and neither one happened.
	They got rid of the toilets, but they didn't get rid of the bums, and now they got poop all over the place.
	Well, this is chopped up from an NPR report, I believe.
	And Twitter wants to build two employee cafeterias.
	Which, as you know, has come under fire in Mountain View.
	Was that Facebag?
	Who was it?
	Yes, Facebag.
	It's about the free food and it's not stimulating or supporting the local economy because all these rich Googlers or Facebaggers or Twitters, they're all sitting there eating their free food and it's bad.
	It's bad for the neighborhood, bad for economy.
	And, well, here's just a couple of quotes from this little back and forth from the panel.
	Here's Nellie Bowles.
	Most businesses say the biggest challenge for them is street crime, is the sorry state of San Francisco's streets, and the cost of security.
	That's the real financial challenge that they're confronting.
	Security.
	It's not just poop, John.
	It's security.
	Get out of this city.
	We've got a major problem on the streets, especially in Midmarket and U.N. Plaza and Civic Center.
	It's a heroin den of activity.
	The symphony has to have a shuttle to bring people in the evenings from three blocks to the symphony hall.
	That's what's driving business away from Midmarket Street.
	It's not a couple of upstairs cafeterias for a few thousand people.
	We've added 180,000 jobs in San Francisco since the depths of the recession.
	We've added 70,000 people in seven years.
	There are plenty of customers in San Francisco for restaurants, for stores, for a vibrant evening and daytime street life if we clean up our street.
	Oh, okay.
	There's plenty of people.
	I'm sorry.
	Plenty of people.
	Plenty of people to make it up, whether Twitter eats in-house or not.
	We just have to clean up the streets.
	And yes, yes, there are issues with the poop, John.
	Let me bring our callers on and let's go.
	I think we have Cain on now.
	Cain, are you there?
	I'm still here.
	How's it going?
	Well, it's going okay now that I hear your voice.
	Go ahead.
	Great.
	Yeah, I work downtown and my office doesn't have a cafeteria area.
	So we have to go out.
	But it's so bad out there that it's basically dangerous to step outside and to go get food.
	So sometimes we'll just have to order lunch and have it delivered so we can avoid, you know, fecal matter on the streets and crazy people throwing stuff at you.
	Hey, Austin, here's what you have to look forward to.
	And then there was just one funny bit that one of our producers...
	Yes, Austin.
	People are throwing stuff at you.
	Throwing stuff at you.
	I told you that some...
	Wasn't this a while ago?
	There's one homeless guy and he definitely has mental issues.
	And he was eating out of the garbage can and I wanted to bring him some food that I had left over.
	You know, the styrofoam box.
	And I just approached him.
	I'm coming up and said, hey.
	And he looked at me, get away!
	Get away!
	You're a pedophile!
	Get away!
	Like, holy shit, bro.
	It was, you know, that's, you know, that kind of problem on the street.
	People need help.
	Well, they're not going to get it.
	And there was just one funny little flub in this.
	Talking mainly about Square Titter, Twitter, Facebook, and...
	Squitter Titter.
	He couldn't get the name right.
	Talking mainly about Square Titter, Twitter, Facebook, and Google.
	I think you want to say Foursquare, probably.
	He's so out of it.
	I don't think anyone uses Foursquare anymore.
	I remember that.
	I'm the mayor.
	I'm the mayor of Poopville.
	The mayor of Poopville.
	Oh, man.
	I can't wait.
	Can't wait to see it happen here.
	Oh, it's going to.
	You had a sequence of clips you wanted to do.
	I have a whole sequence of clips, and partly because I need...
	This is one of those things where my interpretation is pretty shallow.
	I don't really have...
	I don't know what's going on quite.
	And I think it would be good to listen to your thoughts on it from a fresh perspective.
	Something's going on definitely though.
	This guy Chulov, a writer for The Guardian, managed to, how he managed to do this when I can't even get an interview with certain people that live nearby, got an interview with Bin Laden's mom.
	Yeah, I saw this.
	And he appeared on CBSN, and CBSN I listen to a lot now because it's like this, it's done by that rena or whatever her name is, very good newsreader and sharp.
	And CBSN is like the evening news, except they don't have these time constraints.
	And it's only online?
	It's only online.
	Yeah.
	Is it video or is it just audio?
	It's video.
	Oh, cool.
	And it goes on, and they go on, and they take these stories that would normally be a two, you know, like a ten-second clip, and in and out, you're in and out, you're in next story, next story.
	And they do a lot more.
	Yeah, okay, that's good.
	Yeah, they let it roll.
	Do they have ads?
	Do they interrupt the programming for ads?
	Curiously not.
	Huh.
	Red is a herring.
	Something's up.
	Yeah.
	But let's play this, and you get a little feeling for it.
	What I'm looking for is why is this happening in the first place?
	This guy's obviously MI6 or some other intelligence agency.
	The Chulove guy?
	Yeah.
	And when you see him and look at him and listen to him, he's a little too slick for being just some slouch journalist.
	The Ben Laden interview won.
	Osama Bin Laden's mother, Alia Ghanem, has spoken for the first time.
	She recently talked with reporter Martin Chulov in an exclusive interview for The Guardian.
	Bin Laden, of course, was the mastermind behind the 9-11 attacks that left thousands dead.
	He was killed by U.S. Navy SEALs in 2011.
	And The Guardian's Martin Chulov joins me now from Beirut.
	Martin, what exactly did Bin Laden's mother have to say about her son?
	Well, she described in great detail about his childhood.
	She said he was an engaging, pious, studious child, somebody who loved her very much, somebody who was a mentor to his younger brothers and sister, and somebody who was basically the love of her life.
	He lost his way, according to her, at university, where he went from being a pious, young, devoted child You know, so much of this article, it feels like she blamed other people, that he was brainwashed, and that's really why he became the person he did.
	You also spoke to other members of the bin Laden family.
	Do they share that same opinion? - There were two brothers, two half-brothers in the room, and they were quite emphatic that Osama was the master of his own destiny.
	Yes, he did fall in with the Muslim Brotherhood while at university, but he chose the path that he later took.
	They said that when they saw these harrowing images of the Twin Towers in New York and the Pentagon burning in Washington, they understood instinctively that it was their brother who was responsible for it.
	They'd warned him many times that he was on a path to ruin, not just for himself, but for the family.
	And their reflections were far less emotional than that of their mother.
	They said he was a man who chose his path and he'd caused great stress and harm for the family for the last 17 years.
	In university?
	Well, this is interesting because when I first heard about this story and the way people were reporting on it, they...
	The mom supposedly made it clear that it was the Saudi universities in particular that ruined him.
	That would make sense if you understand where the hijackers came from.
	And he left that part out even though it was implied if you listen to the whole thing.
	Yeah, he was in Saudi Arabia.
	But he never said what university.
	And a lot of Saudis go to American universities.
	A lot of them go to British universities.
	So that was – I found that to be like a clue to whatever.
	Let's play part two.
	Pretty remarkable, Martin, to hear you say that the brothers knew right away that when they saw the Twin Towers coming down that it was Bin Laden.
	How were they so certain?
	It was interesting.
	I pressed them on this and there was a lot of looking at their feet.
	It was a very hard thing for them to confront.
	On one hand, this interview was almost cathartic for them, but on the other hand, it was very painful because they'd never spoken publicly and they were aware of the ramifications of their words.
	So, as best as I could press them on this, there was a moment of deep Deep reflection, deep shock, deep sadness and deep anger almost all blended into one when they were called to the television on September 11, 2001 and witnessed what was taking place.
	They knew that this was the culmination of a lifelong journey towards radicalization that their formerly beloved older brother had taken.
	Bin Laden's mom hasn't spoken in years.
	Why do you think she agreed to sit down and do this interview?
	It was a process of negotiations that went on for about 10 months in a state that's authoritarian in Saudi Arabia.
	We need to have buy-in from the state, and we did ask for permission.
	That took a long time to come, and then we had to approach the family.
	I think the family's motivations were Two-fold.
	Firstly, there was an element of we need to restore some sense of legitimacy, not just in Saudi society, but perhaps in globalised as well.
	They are a very powerful family, very well connected in Saudi Arabia.
	The Bin Laden clan basically built a lot of the country.
	They're deeply woven into the establishment.
	But there's a second factor, too, and that is that the three older Bin Laden brothers were locked up by the Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman last year and accused of being involved in widespread graft.
	So the family have the stigma of Osama, and now they have the fact that the three brothers were in prison to deal with as well.
	And they are looking, on some level, to restore some leverage or patronage with the House of Saud.
	So as I'm listening to this, before that last bit came in about the members of the family being locked up by the Saudi prince, I was thinking, what changed?
	Well, what changed is, you know, the previous ruler, the previous prince-king of Saudi Arabia died.
	Old Papa Bush died, and he was best friends along with George W., with Prince Bandar, who was implicated in a lot of this stuff.
	Papa Bush is still alive.
	Okay.
	What am I thinking?
	I don't know what you're thinking, but...
	I'm from the future.
	I'm sorry I put that out there.
	Oh, my God.
	Check the news feed.
	Barbara Bush is dead.
	Yes.
	Maybe she's just like, hey, let me out these a-hole Saudis for the real perpetrators because they ruined my one kid.
	They threw the other ones in jail.
	We should expose the Saudis for what they are.
	Maybe.
	A mom's revenge, possibly.
	Yeah.
	No, it doesn't sound right for Saudi culture for a mom to have revenge.
	But let's go to part three.
	Because I'm the same as you.
	I'm kind of baffled by this whole thing.
	And then when you get to this couple of little short clips at the very end where he talks about stuff that wasn't in his article, it gets even more interesting.
	You know, you write about how the mother and the family members were able to see bin Laden at one point.
	Why do you think it is that the family was able to see him and for so long Western intelligence couldn't find him?
	That's very interesting.
	They saw him twice in 1999 in Kandahar at the airport in a base that the Russians used to run.
	And this, it must be borne in mind, was more than a year after the attacks on the U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, and also the missile strike that President Clinton ordered on bases in Kandahar and Kabul that were run by al-Qaeda.
	A year after that, the family were able to find their man, but Western intelligence couldn't.
	Now, I find it difficult to believe that the Saudi leadership at the time didn't know that the family were going to visit Osama, and I do believe that there was a message passed on to him.
	They didn't acknowledge that, but I think that that would have been part of the consideration at the time.
	You go and tell him something for us, and we'll let you go, and we'll let you come back.
	Yeah, nothing happens, especially if you're living in Saudi Arabia, without them knowing and being aware, especially when you know Western intelligence at this high level are looking for them.
	Do you believe that the Saudis were in cahoots with the bin Laden family?
	In the Afghanistan years, I think it's very clear, this is the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, that there was extensive support from the state of Saudi Arabia for the Afghan mujahideen and Osama bin Laden was...
	I don't think that's in any real dispute.
	Beyond that though, there has been a dispute led by claimants of victims of 9/11 that the House of Saad was directly involved in the lead up and preparation of 9/11 and that Osama bin Laden, rather than being an outcast, was an agent.
	That's something that we've looked at for many years.
	I must say that that premise was not reinforced by speaking to the family and certainly not through discussions I've had in the lead-up, both with former Saudi officials, current officials and Western officials.
	It is totally clear that Saudi Arabia over the last 38 years exported a form of the faith that underwrote global jihad, but I'm not yet convinced that there is any direct causal link between them and Bin Laden and them and 9-11.
	Is there a movie coming out maybe?
	That would be a good reason for this.
	We haven't been catching that enough, I have to say.
	I just looked.
	I didn't see anything for Osama bin Laden movie.
	The Soviet occupation, by the way, as I've been looking into it over the last, I don't know, six months, was very sketchy insofar as it being an occupation.
	And I'm going to write a long newsletter essay about this in the probably the next few months, because this is the period of time where some it wasn't a communist, but some socialist guys had actually gotten voted in democratically to take over the place.
	And they were dictatorial in a lot of ways.
	And they had modernized Afghanistan.
	This is in the 70s.
	And we saw them, the Americans in time.
	Intelligence groups saw them as communists, and it was just part of the...
	This was the era of the...
	I guess maybe it was in the late 60s.
	This was the era of the domino theory.
	And so that's why we got involved...
	Wait, what was the domino theory?
	Oh, the domino theory was one of the reasons we had the Vietnam War, is that if one country falls to communism...
	Then communism would go all the way down the line, yes.
	Yeah, they'd be flipping around.
	Next thing you know, Hawaii would be communist.
	Yep.
	So we are the ones that, when we saw that Afghanistan turned socialist, we're the ones who sent our boys in there to counter this thing, and that's where we trained the Mujahideen ourselves to kind of undermine the government.
	And the Soviets, who thought this was great that they were a bunch of this new country that could probably come under their umbrella, they had to go in to kind of save the government.
	Right.
	And the funny thing is is that – and this is the reason I want to write about this for the newsletter – is that that era where they keep showing these pictures – Afghanistan, 1971, Afghanistan today.
	And they show these happy-go-lucky co-eds walking down the street in Afghanistan.
	Yeah, looking all groovy.
	Women all in these...
	That was bull crap.
	Oh, really?
	There was no moment like that.
	That whole moment was all staged by these socialists who were trying to modernize the country, like, overnight.
	Really?
	So those pictures of cute girls in bobby socks at the time, that was not true?
	It was propaganda.
	Huh.
	And so all these people that do that comparison are really missing the point because if you go just one year before that government was elected into office and just look at even the postage stamps… You see these women, they're all covered up, and the whole thing is no different than there is today, although it probably was less brutal back in the day.
	Maybe not.
	But the whole thing was propaganda, and then we've kind of covered it up, and we make the stories about the occupation and all the rest of it.
	It's nonsense.
	The whole story about Afghanistan is bullcrap.
	But what surprises there are there?
	Now, so anyway, now he starts to talk.
	I got this part, this is called Part 2, Intro 1.
	The true love guy brings in some new information.
	And maybe this has something to do as to why this interview in The Guardian and why this interview here on CBS, why it maybe has something to do with it.
	We're creating a new guy.
	You know, Bin Laden's son has been designated a global terrorist by the U.S. Do they know where he is?
	And does the Bin Laden family even address him at all?
	Wait a minute.
	What exactly is being said there?
	Bin Laden's son.
	I don't know any of this.
	Do you know this?
	No.
	Bin Laden's son has been designated a global terrorist.
	Which one?
	And they don't know.
	There's one particular son.
	They name him in the second part of this clip.
	They name him.
	It's like, I didn't know anything about this because they had a picture of him too.
	Like a picture.
	Yeah.
	Oh, yes, I did, of him sitting down in a chair.
	I did see the picture.
	No, he wasn't sitting in a chair.
	I thought it was.
	There's a picture of him.
	And I didn't know any of this.
	I think this is part of a, because this is CBS, remember, which is, you know, CIA broadcasting system.
	There, I think we're being set up.
	There's your answer right there.
	You should have mentioned that in the beginning.
	I didn't know it was on CBS. Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	CBSN. I made a big description.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	Of course, CBSN. You did.
	All right.
	I wasn't...
	I didn't connect it.
	Good, good, good.
	Now, so let's think that maybe they're trying to get a new enemy that we can, like, be bitching and moaning about and shaking our fist over like we knew with Bin Laden for the whole George Bush era.
	You know, they never caught the guy.
	Right.
	And they're shaking their fist the whole time.
	But you know what that means?
	Yeah, but that means we need an event.
	Yeah.
	Well, Osama bin Laden wasn't interesting until we had an event.
	I don't know if we really need one now.
	I don't know.
	Maybe we do need an event.
	It's event carryover.
	It's like spare change.
	It carries over to the sun.
	I like that.
	That's interesting.
	Yeah, it could be.
	Here, let's hear about him.
	You know, Bin Laden's son has been designated a global terrorist by the U.S. Do they know where he is?
	And does the Bin Laden family even address him at all?
	They did talk about Hamza Bin Laden, who is the heir apparent to Osama, according to the Half Brothers.
	He has said that he will step up and avenge his father's death.
	And it does appear that he's committed his young life to doing that.
	There was some talk last year that he was in Pakistan, and I don't think that's likely.
	I think it's more likely Afghanistan, where he is effectively deputy to Ayman al-Zawahri, who was Osama's deputy and is now the leader of al-Qaeda.
	He's maintaining a very low profile.
	The families say plausibly that they have had no contact from him, Whatsoever.
	They did say, and this is something that I didn't have space to publish, that they do believe that he has married the daughter of Muhammad Atta, who was the lead hijacker in 9-11.
	So what that would say is that the 9-11 alumni remains very viable and very real even 17 years after the fact.
	Fascinating point.
	Martin Chulav, fascinating interview.
	Thank you so much for joining us at CBSN to bring this to us.
	Now, a couple of things about his last commentary there.
	When he starts talking about, just before he starts talking about the marriage to Muhammad Atta's daughter, he starts swallowing maniacally, which to me may be a tell that this is like some scripted thing, which I think the whole thing is.
	Yeah.
	But he all of a sudden starts swallowing maniacally.
	I mean, he swallows, swallows, swallows, and it's noticeable on the audio.
	So this whole thing, the only reason I played all these clips is because there's something going on here, and this is an intro to it.
	This is the early salvo.
	I think you're right.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	But is it a salvo to this Hempsey Bin Laden character, this new guy?
	Also, if this guy was such an obvious, you know, Bin Laden kid, how come he wasn't buried by a drone like the American kid?
	You know, Al-Awlaki's 16-year-old son who's not blown up.
	Right, right.
	Which makes it like, wait a minute, this is...
	Why didn't that happen to this guy, if he's so important, but now all of a sudden he's emerging and he's going to avenge his father he probably never saw?
	I mean, this whole thing is just really stinks.
	Well, I like that you've...
	I like that you caught it, because I saw an article about it, or some reference to it, and I did not go and read it, which is interesting by itself, that I wouldn't want to go...
	I was just...
	I don't know, I was doing something else.
	But his name is...
	Hamza.
	Hamza bin Laden.
	So he wants to avenge his father's death.
	I like that.
	Well, it could...
	If, indeed, if this is a setup from the Central Intelligence Broadcasting Network, Service Network...
	You know, there could be something being set up to distract, to...
	But yeah, I don't understand that.
	I mean, everything's going so well with the Russia stuff.
	I mean, what else do they need?
	Well, maybe they think so far ahead as possible.
	I don't personally think this is true, but it might be.
	That this is just early stage, so it doesn't come out of the blue.
	Oh, yeah, no, do you remember that?
	Oh, yeah, they've talked about this about 10 years ago.
	We've been talking about this guy for a while.
	I mean, Bin Laden was on the scene.
	He was on the radar quite a bit.
	Yeah.
	So maybe there's that.
	Maybe this kid's working for one of the agencies.
	I would guess MI6, but it could be anyone.
	But then it would only be to...
	Well, I still think we need to keep the Saudi thing in there.
	The Saudi thing is important.
	I'm not sure why, but it feels like...
	Oh, where's Q when you need him?
	Yeah, Q's not giving us anything.
	It's the only way we'll be able to figure it out.
	Well, let's see if he drops anything about it.
	And that's it.
	I got a call time, John.
	That was a nice little end of show package.
	Looking for some breadcrumbs.
	Yeah, that's right.
	Follow the rabbit.
	And that concludes our broadcast for today.
	August 5th.
	5th.
	August 5th, 2018.
	Of course, we will return on Thursday with another episode of your best podcast in the universe, the No Agenda Show.
	Until then, coming to you from downtown Austin, Texas, capital of the drone star state in FEMA region number 6 in the 5x9 Cludio in the Common Law Condo.
	In the morning, everybody, I'm Adam Curry.
	And from northern Silicon Valley, where I noticed that Throughout the show, except at the very beginning, we managed to avoid the word binge.
	Binge.
	Yes.
	Think about binge when you say it next time.
	Binge.
	Yeah, what's your name?
	You gotta sign off with your name.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	I'm John C. Dvorak.
	Until Thursday, everybody.
	Adios, mofos!
	Binge.
	Bitch.
	Donate to a No Agenda.
	They give us shows week after week.
	Donate to a No Agenda.
	It's a show that's really unique.
	Donate to a No Agenda.
	Listen to John and Adam speak.
	Donate to a No Agenda.
	Science is turning into a clique.
	If your anygdala's getting big, you know No Agenda's for you.
	It seemed like a fog of confusion all day long.
	Moving the goalposts for the probe.
	Go ahead, Jim.
	Go off the rails or jump the tracks.
	Instead, the president unloaded in his usual safe space.
	He is ushering in.
	A cold war, a return of the cold war between Washington and Havana.
	That is exactly what has happened in the last 12 hours or so.
	I think it would be a good thing if you were to say right here at this briefing that...
	Jim, you know what it is?
	It is a good thing.
	Collusion, though collusion.
	Collusion, though collusion.
	Collusion.
	They don't know if it's true or false.
	Because they're not involved.
	I'm involved.
	I've been involved with this stuff all my life.
	Collusion.
	No collusion.
	Collusion.
	No collusion.
	Collusion.
	Any collusion?
	Any collusion?
	Streaming alone on a shadow band channel A link from Twitter on Saturday night Far away to another page To a cam girl lost on a foreign site But nobody ever came to To serve it.
	chicks have a sudden lure Streaming alone on a shadow band channel Might be Lauren Southern Vibe, who could be sure?
	Streaming alone on a shadow band channel The first one to join in 70 nights Far away from another page Give me a tip and I'll treat you right Boy, did I click through I'll stay, I'll pay.
	Take me to heaven, Michael Bay.
	I'll stay, I'll pay.
	Take me to heaven, Michael Bay.

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