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March 6, 2008 - No Agenda
01:04:47
20: Never Say No to a Soldier
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Once again, it's time for that program that has no music, no jingles, no commercials, no themes, obviously no talent, and certainly no agenda, coming to you from an overcast United Kingdom in the Curry Manor.
I'm Adam Curry.
And I'm John C. Dvorak in sunny Northern California.
You've been having a great week.
Hasn't it been like in the mid-70s all week so far?
It's hit 74 a couple of days.
Oh, beautiful, man.
No, it's been dreary here.
It really has.
No good.
Well, if it makes you feel any better, it's supposed to rain this weekend.
Oh, what?
And I'm not even coming to the city?
I mean, that's when it's supposed to rain, when I come out.
Yeah, I know.
They decided, maybe you are coming.
You don't know it yet.
Yeah, that's true.
What the hell do I know?
Well, I guess not.
Dude, what happened to Ziff Davis?
What happened?
They filed for Chapter 11.
Well, that's something that's been on and off to do that for the last five years.
What was interesting to me is we, at least with me, they caught up with all our payments.
I'm sure that was interesting to you.
It was kind of a surprise, so I figured something screwy was going on.
I don't know the whole story yet.
Oh, okay.
But they're still in business, it's just, you know, it's not like they're shutting down.
Right.
Because, you know, I can say that we've certainly, as Podshow's been talking to them, we're trying to put a deal together, and I was just like, you know, it's kind of surprising.
It's like, oh, okay.
I presume, I don't know much about Chapter 11, at least not the U.S. version.
I know about other versions.
Yeah.
Well, Chapter 11 basically freezes the company's...
It essentially puts the company into a kind of an oversight group, takes a look, and you don't have to pay their bills for a while.
Right, so that's kind of...
So they refinance, essentially, hopefully.
I mean, the airlines have done this numerous times, and they sometimes...
You know, publishing companies, I don't know how many of them come out of it well, but we'll see.
So, obviously, Chapter 11 is some kind of, you know, to protect the assets, I guess.
But that doesn't mean the company can't do business as regular, right?
We can still do a deal with these guys?
Because I think we actually would contribute and help them.
Yeah, no, I think actually you're in a better position now.
Ah, good.
Okay.
Excellent.
Hey, you know, so you sent me something.
Excuse me.
But I think what I should say, by the way, today is Thursday, March 6th, when we're recording this.
And I actually thought for a few moments while I was making some teas, you know, maybe we should just wait until tomorrow to release it.
But I'm thinking, you know, something could happen overnight.
We should release it today.
I'm sure you agree, John.
Yeah, well, I know why.
It's just easier.
It's not about just being easier.
No.
No, no, no, no, no.
But so we have...
No talent, no work, no agenda, no...
No hassle.
No hassle.
More money, less work.
That's my motto for 2008.
We got...
Let's just get into it.
Unless you have something you want to talk about right off the bat.
You want to just hear one or two of these calls?
Well, you know, I think we got a lot of feedback on our last show, and I think it seems to me that people are really jacked up about us talking about tea.
Oh, yes.
Oh, dude.
Oh, dude.
I think I did get at least one consistent piece of feedback, which is about the milk.
This is about 50 seconds, so let me just play this for you.
It makes sense.
Hi, Adam and John.
This is Ed calling from South London.
First of all, I like it.
Guy from Britain.
You already feel kind of right, don't you?
Yeah, I love it.
Here we go.
Just interested in the conversation you had in the Last No Agenda about putting the milk in the tea first.
The way I hear it is that's traditionally an English thing, possibly European in some cases, but mainly English.
Due to the fact that back in the day, I guess 1700s, We were really shitty at making porcelain.
And so if you made tea without putting the milk in first, the cups would crack or break.
And that's where the English tradition of putting the milk in the tea came from first.
So you put it in the teapot and then I guess pour it in the cup, but with the milk in first.
So that's the way I hear it, and it's probably right.
There seems to be the accepted wisdom over here.
And so John's comment about no one over 30 does it, it's probably, maybe it's making a revival or something.
Okay, guys, love the show, and I'll listen next week.
Bye.
There you go.
I got a lot of those.
I got a couple of those myself, and it actually does make some sense, except for the fact that it makes less sense today, especially when people put the milk in, and then they put a teabag in it, and then they pour the water into the...
I can see where you would put the milk in the thing and then brew it in a pot and then pour the...
Brewed tea into the milk, but not to make the tea bag with the milk.
No, no.
Which is what I've been seeing.
Yeah.
So it's an abomination.
But boy, people are passionate about their tea, huh?
Well, over there.
Unbelievable.
I also heard there's somebody complaining that...
When I'm in England, I very rarely see a tea bag with a string and a label on it.
It would be interesting to see if anybody knows the history of that particular phenomenon.
I think it was Lipton that developed it.
Who started with the string and the holder, you mean?
Yeah, the string and the little tag on the end.
It was probably made specifically for the U.S. market.
That seems like a typical...
Maybe it's a U.S. invention.
Who knows?
I'm sure someone patented it.
Yeah, it definitely looks patentable.
Now, having said that, I remember some years ago I was in France, and I wish I could find this stuff again, just because it was so cool.
You'll see this actually in France.
They have tea in bags in France, and they do have the little string usually attached to it.
But the tea is always really weak.
The French aren't real tea drinkers by any means.
Even though they have a couple of famous tea companies that sell their expensive teas in a canister.
But anyway, I saw this.
I was at some hotel and it came with a couple of tea bags.
And the tea bags themselves were made of a fine silk.
Oh yeah, no.
I had those over here.
There's a British brand that makes it with fine silk as well.
I've seen that around.
Since then, I went to the Fancy Food Show in San Francisco a few times because we have a deli.
Tea has become a big deal at the Fancy Food Show.
There's all these companies that make these tea purveyors.
Again, it's not as good as PG Tips out for this stuff.
They sell individual little boxes with a teabag in a box.
It's unbelievable.
Anything to screw the public.
There's a bunch of tea companies, these high-end hoity-toity tea companies, and they've got the tea that's in not silk, but some sort of a weird mesh plastic of some sort.
That's the new high-tech tea bag.
Yeah, I've seen that, too.
It's like a pyramid tea bag, only it's...
Some of them aren't.
There's a variety of designs.
There's a square one.
You know, this morning I went to, it's called the Job Center.
I had to get my national insurance number, which is equivalent to a social security number, because now I'm working at least partially on the UK payroll, so as to be fair, so as not to get in trouble with a tax man, etc.
Her Majesty's...
and revenue service.
And so you have to be interviewed because they're going to see if they really think I'm the real deal, right?
So this probably isn't intended specifically for me.
If you just look around the room, it's like, okay, this is for immigrants who do not speak the language.
But you have to prove that you actually live at that address.
And I got...
What are the chances?
I got a young, not very good looking woman who had to do my interview.
She didn't even look at my documentation.
She was already stamped and stuff.
But I'm talking to her and pretty soon the conversation turns to, well, I'm actually leaving.
I bought a house in Spain.
I'm like, well, that's interesting.
Here you are interviewing me to come in and you're leaving.
And all of her own accord, she brought up something that we've talked about a couple times on this show that is now really focus of the mainstream media here in the UK is the binge drinking.
Yeah, interesting.
Right now, so the government's response to this, I just wanted to revisit it because I know we have a lot of European and UK listeners.
The government's response is to raise taxes on alcohol.
And I'm like, I mean, don't they understand that there's got to be a root cause?
And even this girl was saying, you know, in Spain it's like, you know, people drink but it's, you know, not off your face.
And in America it says you have to be 21 and people don't mess around with that and you don't see people, well, maybe at frat parties in college, that's kind of what you're supposed to do there.
But other countries around the world, it just doesn't happen.
It's something really British.
And she came right out and she said, there's something much different going wrong here that has nothing to do with the cost or availability of alcohol.
And I don't hear anyone standing up and saying, that's horse crap.
You mean, this is saying what's more scrap, the fact that they're just going to tax it?
Yeah, just, you know, it's a higher tax.
In fact, so they've done some statistics never since they opened up the pub hours to go past 11 o'clock or whatever they used to close really early.
And now it's 24 hour a day license.
And, you know, so alcohol related crime, I believe, has actually gone down.
I mean, there's all kinds of statistics that show that that didn't, Really make any difference in the drinking behavior or pattern, but because it got spread out, people didn't start to go steal and trash stuff at 11.30 when the pub was closed.
But I don't hear anyone contradicting this idea that the problem solver is taxes.
This country's asleep over here, John.
It's really surprising to me that this country of so-called stiff, upper-lipped Brits who...
Who I think really like to live their own lives and live free.
They're suppressed, man.
It's amazing.
It brings up a couple of interesting points.
First of all, back in the day, during, you know, let's say...
The Blitz?
The Blitz, John?
No, I say a couple hundred years ago, I mean, the Brits were well known for drinking too much.
I mean, the problem with gin is even, you know, even crops up in history books.
When it shouldn't.
And if you look at old Hogarth etchings, he would ridicule the English for its kind of drunkenness.
So, I mean, I don't know if there's something that goes back.
I think maybe it's just returning.
And the other thing is, the image Americans have of the British is not quite the same as a lot of other people's overall image.
And what I wanted to cite, and I wish I... I'm going to have to see if I can find a copy of this clip that's on...
It might be on YouTube or someplace, but we're watching...
When I'm in Washington, we watch Canadian television mostly, because it's just not because it's necessarily...
Better overall, but it's different.
And one of my favorite shows is This Hour Has 22 Minutes, which is a comedy show that's been on the CBC probably for decades.
And they decided, they did a thing where they're going to interview a couple of typical Brits.
So they cut to the satellite to talk to these two people in their homes, and it's like...
And they portray them as, you know, a horrible fat woman with teeth going every which way and blubbering about stuff and bashing her skinny, perverted husband who's like hunched over.
And it's just like you see the image.
We're watching this.
My wife says, Guy, this is sure not the image the Americans have of the British, but is this the way the Canadians see them?
And, you know, so it's possible that we're all wrong.
You know, maybe only the Canadians have got it right.
The Brits are just a mess.
What's the video you wanted to reference?
Well, I'm saying, I'm wondering if this hour has 22 minutes is up on YouTube ever, because the show itself is worth watching, and this particular episode has these English...
Of course it does.
Oh yeah, of course it does.
Of course it's on YouTube, dude.
Are you kidding me?
All the stolen shit is on YouTube.
Hold on.
So I have to find this particular thing, because it's a point of sociology that's quite interesting.
And the Canadians would have, you know, they have a longer association with the English...
A closer one than we do, for sure.
We just rousted them in 1776.
Americans typically have a nostalgic view of the British.
They drink tea, and the Queen is kind of interesting, and they have a royalty we don't have.
It's peculiar.
In fact, during the Civil War...
Or just before the Civil War that many of the states in South Carolina in particular were actually thinking about splitting and becoming a monarchy.
Really?
They wanted a king?
Yeah, South Carolina in particular.
They still have that kind of attitude in that state.
Yeah, they wanted a king and a queen.
Oh, incoming email.
No, they do.
I made a horrible mistake of actually going to that YouTube video.
It crunched the bandwidth.
I'm telling you, man, these guys, the bandwidth in the UK sucks.
It sucks.
Don't watch YouTube videos while on Skype.
No, no, I understand that, but we had such a great connection, I thought maybe I'd just give it a shot.
Yeah, no, you're right.
It's the same with the Dutch.
The perception of the Dutch used to be windmills, wooden shoes, tulips, and then somewhere, I'd probably say in the 70s, towards the end of the 70s, certainly after John and Yoko spent a week in bed in the Amsterdam Hilton, it kind of became known for hippie paradise.
You remember the hippies sitting around Dam Square, the Dam Monument, right?
Yeah.
Hookers and drugs.
And now it's hookers and drugs.
Absolutely.
And you never hear anyone about wooden shoes anymore.
If you ask a kid at school, ask a fifth grader, Holland, hookers and drugs.
No more wooden shoes.
And they still use them.
Actually, last time I was in Amsterdam, I went to some long street.
I can't remember the name of it, but it's a huge shopping street.
Kohlverstraat.
Yeah, the Kohlverstraat.
It's huge.
It's miles.
It's the only other one in the world that I've been to that's impressive in terms of its length of one street.
For shopping.
In Beijing, there's a street that's probably even longer.
And it's wider.
It's huge.
It's this big, giant Champs-Élysées-width place that goes on forever.
I never could get to the end of it.
Anyway, so I'm shopping in this street.
I'm looking for some shoes.
And so I found some...
I found, you know, there's some...
I went into a really cool-looking pair of shoes that I figured I'd buy.
They didn't quite fit right.
But the guy gave me a lecture.
He said, well, you know, this is one of the last two shoe companies left in Holland that made these shoes.
And he went on and on with a lament about how many shoe companies there used to be.
And I guess this goes back to the wooden shoe days.
He said, I guess there were hundreds at one point.
And they've all consolidated down to like one or two, and they're about to go broke.
Well, and that's also part of a larger gripe in the Netherlands, is that they've been saying for maybe 15 or 20 years, the government has basically put Holland into the storefront window.
Everything has been sold.
They don't make anything.
We were complaining about America.
They don't make anything.
There is nothing being produced in Holland anymore.
Nothing.
Zero.
Zero.
You know, except, well, banking, and that just got sold, AB and Amro.
You know, sold to, what was that, Barclays?
I don't know, I didn't follow that.
Yeah, you know, so that was kind of like the last thing the Netherlands has, and there's just no more industry there.
And it used to be a very industrious trading-based nation.
No longer.
I don't know what to tell you.
Nothing.
I don't really care.
It's kind of pathetic.
I mean, I don't know why these countries believe.
I guess, you know, they're all locked into this internationalism, globalism, and they, I guess, believe that they can get all their products elsewhere cheaper in such a way that they never have to worry about ever making them again.
But if some, you know, if Hitler cropped up in this day and age, it would be easy.
These countries would be a walkover.
They wouldn't have to have a blitzkrieg.
No, oh no, it would be very easy.
The Netherlands, of course, in the Second World War capitulated within like five days and they gave up their three rifles and two bicycles.
Well, more than two bicycles, according to the Dutch, that's all they do is they still bitch about the fact that the bicycles were never returned.
Yeah, they get...
Oh, God.
That is a joke we don't make anymore in Holland, John.
Yeah.
That is no longer valid, culturally speaking.
Not politically correct.
Why?
When did that change?
Well, as we all got older.
I've dealt with lots of Germans my age, and this is great.
The new Germans, I'll just call them, the generation that has now grown up, whose parents were born during the Second World War...
They're very reliable in general, I'd have to say, in business dealings.
They're pretty reliable.
They're friendly.
I like doing business with them.
And culturally, they're quite rich.
So we just don't mess with them anymore because now they're just our good neighbors.
And by the way, what an economy.
When Germany sneezes, the Netherlands catches the cold.
So the bicycle issue is off the table.
Yeah, we do not.
No, we do not say that anymore.
No.
No.
Huh.
No, not funny anymore.
I never thought it was supposed to be funny.
I thought it was a legitimate complaint.
I want my bicycle back.
A couple other things that happened.
Not just stealing of bikes.
A couple of things went on there.
So did you get that song I emailed you?
Yes, I did.
You want to play it?
Yeah, sure.
Before you play it, I ran into this song I was recording.
This is from a movie done in 1942, and a lot of people out there don't realize that both the U.S., England, and most of the countries in World War II, in 1942, A lot of historians will say that we actually technically have already lost the war.
The war was over and the Germans were going to win everything.
Okay.
And so 1942, there was a turnaround mainly because of the productivity of the American factories where we were cranking out.
I mean, William Manchester discusses this in one of his books and he has all the stats, which I should blog one of these days because they're actually quite phenomenal.
They're like doing a ship a week kind of thing.
Oh, and like, you know, 700 aircraft a month.
I mean, it was really high turnover.
Or more.
But anyway, there was a lot of, they were cranking out a lot of stuff, and then the war turned around.
And we ended up winning, but in 1942, it wasn't clear that we were going to.
And so then, so there was a bunch of interesting sociologies that took place during this period.
And one of them that fascinated me was this song, which is in a movie, you know, one of these war movies called, and the movie was called Iceland.
And I don't have the singer's name, but I think the band was Sammy K. And I found it interesting because this song is essentially, if you read between the lines, kind of making a...
Don't even tell him.
Don't even tell him.
Yeah, okay.
Okay, well, we'll listen to it and then we'll discuss it.
Listen, little lady, it's the order of the day, issued by the highest of authority.
Fellows in the service simply can't be turned away.
You know that defense must get priority.
So if you're patriotically inclined, heed the call to arms and keep this thought in mind.
You can't say no to a soldier, a sailor or a handsome marine.
No, you can't say no if he wants to dance.
If he's gonna fight, he's not a right to romance.
Oh, get out your lipstick and powder.
Be beautiful and dutiful too.
If he's not your type, then it's still okay.
You can always kiss him in a sisterly way.
Oh, you can't say no.
No, you gotta give in if you want him to win for you You can say no to a soldier A sailor or a handsome marine No, you can't say no if he wants to dance If he's gonna fight, he's got a right to romance.
So get out your lipstick and powder.
Be beautiful and dutiful, too.
If he says it's cold on those submarines, you can knit a sweater, but that's not what I mean.
Oh, you can't say no.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Oh, they're my fatal tins.
So you better give in If you want him to win For you Yeah Yeah.
Yeah.
Ha ha.
That's basically saying, do your local servicemen so he can win the war.
Yeah, basically saying that, you know, whoring out the country.
Because if you don't get, you know, because if you don't get to keep these guys happy, you know, you're going to be stuck with, you know, what you get in a war situation.
Somebody else takes over.
Lots of rape.
I really liked it where it was, you know, you can always kiss him in a sisterly way.
I thought that was pretty funny.
Yeah, and there's also a couple of twists in there, you know, be beautiful and dutiful.
I've got to try that tonight.
Honey, you've got to be beautiful and dutiful tonight.
Actually, the real interesting little twisted phrase in there was, you know, if he says it's cold in the submarine, you can knit him a sweater, but that's not what he means.
Oh, I know, I know, I know.
And then you've got, was it Popeye or Brutus popping in there?
Yeah, that guy, I can't remember his name.
He's in a lot of movies from that era.
He's kind of like an Ernest Borgnine type guy.
He was a character actor, showed up here and there in the B movies mainly.
So that's part of a film, you said?
Yes, it's a scene in the movie Iceland, and they cut to this song.
And I just thought it was interesting because it matched the year, which is 1942, which is the year that we're losing.
The year you were born, of course.
Yeah, no.
And I'm not that old.
And it was the year we were losing.
There actually weren't a lot of people born that year because most people were fighting.
Was that before Pearl Harbor or post?
No, that's after Pearl Harbor.
Right, okay.
So yeah, that was a downer mood for sure.
And then Hitler was beating everybody up.
So it was a bad time.
But the interesting part of this song, which is telling these women to get to work, having sex, I think it's kind of lost on...
Essentially.
I think this whole era is completely lost to anybody, today's generations, or anybody, as a matter of fact.
I think it's kind of...
You mean the general vibe and how people felt and what the nation was thinking?
Well, you wonder, because we have these war efforts, like the Vietnam War and all these insincere wars that we've been seemingly in.
And you never had this kind of thing where this was actually a desperate situation where people had to do things.
And I think the song reflects that in some way that I don't think we'll ever see anything like it again.
You know where I still see that?
Yeah.
On Gordon Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares.
I'm telling you, there's two versions that air over here.
I know you watch it, John.
I'm sure you've seen the show.
Absolutely.
It's so different when he does a French or a British restaurant.
For those of you who haven't seen the show, essentially Gordon Ramsay, I'm sure you know him, famous celebrity chef, says fuck a lot.
Probably that's why I'm drawn to him.
But he's a very powerful, intense guy.
And he goes into these businesses, and he tries to turn them around in, well, of course, it's really one hour of television, but the idea is it's a couple days in real time.
I have no idea how long it takes him to shoot it.
And then he goes back and visits them a couple months later to see how they're doing.
And these are all restaurants on the brink of failure.
But once again, last night, they were doing an Irish pub in, I think it was Florida.
Ex-cop took his pension, family business, complete.
Yeah, it's always a sad story.
It's heart-wrenching.
It's just like ripping it right out.
But then when you get the Americans, when Gordon Ramsay lays into these restaurateurs and is often the chef or the owner, it's usually the owner.
In the European versions, it's like, who the fuck do you think you are, Gordon Ramsay?
That's the French guy.
Exactly.
But with the American version, it's like, Gordon's at the top of his game, man.
He's the top.
He's motivated me.
I've opened up again.
I've learned how to love what I'm doing with passion.
We're going to go kick some ass.
And I'm like, and I sit there and I get goosebumps.
And I think, that's it.
That is the definition of the American spirit.
And I think it was probably the same thing in 42.
But you still see it in situations like that.
Yeah, no, I watch both versions too because we get BBC America on the Dish Network.
And they show the British versions of the Gordon Ramsay show on there.
Usually they show a bunch of them in a series.
They'll do a weekend.
It'll be like 10 in a row.
Oh, honey, we're staying in.
Put the kettle on.
So, well, you can record them.
But anyway, and the contrast between the American version and the European version or the British version is exactly what you say, which is the Americans tend to be more amenable to consultants, which is what he comes in as.
And they listen, and they try to adapt, and once in a while they get into a little beef, but a lot of that you wonder, sometimes it's semi-artificial, because I don't think...
It's the editing.
Oh no, it's totally the editing.
Yeah, there's a lot of editing, because it's like the reality TV where a lot of it's faked.
Yeah, you just take shots of people looking with inquisitive expressions or anger.
Right, and I can see the director saying, can you throw something down?
Slow that down a little bit.
You know what, let's add a boing-oing sound effect here.
This is my other favorite.
That's what you do when an animal twists head looking in amazement at crazy humans.
Add sound effect.
But then when you go to the British version of the show, and he goes to France often, and he goes all over the place.
He was in Paris, and some expat was there trying to open a place.
They're more sensitive.
They don't like being told what to do.
They're not into consultants so much like Americans.
We're kind of like a consultant culture.
And they reject the guy, and they get into these huge arguments.
It's actually highly entertaining, but...
90% of the time, it's just a bunch of a-holes yelling at each other.
Yeah.
What's the difference between that and boxing or football or soccer?
Well, there's none.
No, people always want to see that.
Yeah, it's entertaining.
By the way, not to be outdone, John, by your song, I did a little bit of research, and I think I came up with the 2008 version of that song.
Want to hear it?
Yeah, let's go.
All right.
Jugs and orbs and darts and gourds Elmer fuds and bouncing Buddhas Sweater stretchers, lung protectors Beach umbrellas, frost detectors Scooby snacks and snake eyes dice Jell-O molds and high beam lights Every day I probably use 99 words for boobs Thought you'd appreciate that one.
Yeah, that is a good example of the difference between 1942 and today, where you have kind of a juvenile attitude about everything.
I'm sorry, I can't help myself.
It's on the Pod Save Music Network.
99 words for boobs.
It's a beautiful thing, man.
Come on.
Yeah, no, I'm downloading it now.
No, don't do that.
It'll ruin our Skype connection.
Hey, dude, in the paper today, rumor and word is now out.
I have a feeling it's a trial balloon because it was almost like orchestrated.
I'm seeing it across everything.
I'm going to tell you, including my favorite newspaper, the Financial Times.
Looks like the EU is going to approve the Google double-click merger.
Oh, and why shouldn't they?
Well, you're always saying that Nelly Cruz is out to...
Out to stop all the big American companies.
Yeah, but I don't think that this would be a good example because it's not like it's going to create a monopoly or anything.
I mean, DoubleClick's been around forever and it's just a service company.
I don't see what the deal is.
Well, no, the deal is...
First of all, the advertising agencies, the media buying agencies are flipping out over this.
Because they're now figuring out, especially with this piece from adding this, strapping on double click, that Google is the buyer and the seller.
That they can no longer, that media agencies can no longer really influence price.
So they're really freaking out over this.
The second thing is, of course, privacy.
I think that's what it was under scrutiny for most.
If you combine all the information Google has on you with DoubleClick's cookie information, I believe that's where people were worried that there were some privacy or potential for privacy issues.
Yeah, I can see that.
And I bet you it's happening.
They can take them on a case-by-case basis after the fact.
I don't think it's a big deal, personally.
Anyway, I'll tell you, there's something screwy going on with Google.
The stock is way down.
Yeah, was it now at 400, coming from 700?
It's in the 400.
Some people are predicting it going lower.
I'm not seeing that when I look at the charts, but I don't know.
I mean, anything can happen.
Anything can happen.
I've heard 150.
I seriously have heard 150.
That would be a disaster.
But anyway, one of the things I've noticed is that my Google, I test AdSense.
And by the way, when I was talking about scheming AdSense last week, I didn't mean that.
I meant scheming the Google advertising on the search engine page.
I don't know how to scheme AdSense.
Backpedal, backpedal, backpedal.
I've noticed that my numbers on my blog, for example, are going way up.
But the amount of money I'm getting from Google AdSense is going down a lot.
I had the same thing happen.
It's ever since we started this show.
I'm telling you.
That could be it.
But the numbers are going down to the point where I have some other tests on that page which have actually stabilized or gone up a little bit.
Which indicates to me that it's not that people aren't dealing with advertising online.
It's that the Google stuff is becoming, especially AdSense, is becoming invisible.
Yeah, I've always believed that the brain parses that out.
I frame the information on the page.
I'm used to that.
I'm used to that as an airman.
I'm used to it as a disc jockey.
I'm used to it doing this right now.
I'm looking at a screen, and I know there's all kinds of stuff going on.
Actually, I have two screens, one above another, but I'm focused on, in the aircraft, we call it the T-scan.
When you're flying instruments, it's like you're focusing on these eight instruments that are in a T-formation on your panel.
So why wouldn't the brain do that on a web page?
It obviously is doing it, but I may have to move the ad someplace else.
Back into the T-scan.
Just move it around.
Which you're supposed to do anyway, because I think you're right.
Because I was noticing it myself.
I was on the webpage the other day, and I was...
I went to something else and I decided to do the old test about what a great ad.
People say, well, I saw this great ad.
It was unbelievable.
It was the funniest thing I've ever seen.
And you ask, well, what was the ad for?
Yeah, exactly.
And they go, well, I don't remember.
I don't know.
And I realize that I haven't been seeing what's on those ads for a couple of months now.
Yeah.
I always look at the top of my weblog because I'm always interested.
And I saw it go from...
Because I do tests too.
There's a retail, a big box retail outlet over here called Curry's.
I'm sure you've heard of that.
Oh, yeah.
And so curry.com, you know, and lo and behold, there's probably 2,600 search hits, someone looking for curries every single day.
And so I start, you know, putting links in there to, you know, to stuff that, you know, like, want to buy a TV set?
Buy it from me.
Yeah, and, you know, and...
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Can't have that right now.
And essentially...
You do see stuff change over time, but that's really only because it's a part of my daily scan that I'm really interested in seeing what words have appeared there.
But otherwise, man, nothing.
Wasn't there a survey about banner ads, the punch the monkey stuff?
It's essentially guys punching the monkey.
It turns out that that's what banner ad clickers are.
Yeah, there's some issues.
I think that's one of them.
I mean, the banner ad thing, that's why CNET, CNET is the company responsible for inventing a lot of these initiatives, including banner ads and that big square box that's now in the middle of everything.
They did that, and I don't think they're responsible for the most annoying ads, which is the flash ad that comes crawling across the screen.
Yeah, I don't think that's flash.
I think that's Ajax stuff, I think.
Could be.
Whatever the case is, it's annoying.
And there's a...
So these guys are desperate for coming up with something, but I think Google may have some issues here if these numbers are correct, because I have stat packages on the server, I have stat packages on the pages, so I know what my numbers are.
And when I get numbers, or when I see Google having, you know, consistently not showing, and one of the things they do is, I don't know how they measure a lot of this stuff, since I put my Google stuff right at the top.
But sometimes they won't give you credit for a page view.
And I'm thinking...
Here's what I'm thinking.
I've noticed that as my numbers increase, the Google numbers kind of stay the same or even go down a little bit to make the click per page number look a little better.
Because the total income from the Google AdSense is actually retreating.
And to make themselves look a little more effective...
There's something screwy going on.
And I don't think I'm the only one seeing this.
And I think it's being reflected in the stock market.
Going down the way it is.
I mean, there's something going on that's screwy.
Well, I think there's a couple things going on.
So first of all, I believe you're right on all counts.
On the parsing of ads on a page, I think people have gotten used to that.
I agree with what you're saying about the page counts.
General fatigue as well.
You've got to take that into account.
But these guys are...
I think they're really desperate at trying to figure a lot of this stuff out.
I don't know if you've ever ventured into the hidden groups of SEO, SEM. There's all kinds of places where these real experts who are making millions of dollars congeal and they all have names like Dark Dragon and stuff like that.
Moody actually does a lot of that stuff.
You know Moody from our office.
And, you know, there's a lot going on that we're just not privy to, A, but that is not even on our radar.
And, yeah, I think there is a scramble.
A scramble to figure it out.
It has to do with page rank.
It has to do with a multitude of...
You know, different factors and weights and balances that really tweak their system.
And by the way, their systems in general have been a bit shaky the past few days.
I've had Gmail problems.
We've had Google Group problems.
We've had calendar problems, Gmail reader problems, you know, files uploading and then disappearing.
There's definitely something going on.
Well, it's not good, whatever it is.
It's not productive for the consumer.
And of course, one of your companies that you had an early investment in and made you a wealthy person has decided to change their entire model.
We're talking about Ask.com.
Ask Jeeves is what I invested in.
It used to be Ask Jeeves, which I always thought was a cute idea except for the fact that it didn't work.
But I like the name Ask Jeeves.
It's kind of cute.
But then they changed it to Ask.
What happened is a guy who, kind of like a friend, he was a guy who almost became a client at Think New Ideas.
And then we kind of stayed in touch.
And he was out in L.A. And he called me one day and he said, Dude, I'm looking for a little bit of cash.
This is going to be the last round.
This is company.
And there was no Google.
AltaVista, I think, was the search engine at the time.
And I said, look, I got $50,000.
That's all I have.
I really can't invest more than that.
He said, no, no, man, it's perfect.
And that was pre-IPO.
And that had, for those who don't remember or don't know, they had a spectacular initial public offering.
And it was based on nothing, I think, at the end of the day.
It was based on a cute branded character.
Interesting name.
And so now they're, you know, I heard the, I heard, was it on Cranky Geeks?
I think I saw you guys talking about.
about how they're supposedly now focusing on married women who have a household to run and need help in their life?
Yeah, that's what actually was what the Associated Press reported.
It's interesting because I hadn't looked at Ask in a long time, and so I went around and the first thing I entered was cooking recipes.
That's funny because that's the first thing I did too.
As soon as they made this announcement, I went to it.
Immediately.
You know what?
It's not bad.
No, I was just about to say, isn't this exactly what Mahalo is supposed to be?
I mean, it has references to other chefs.
So actually, it was like, you might want to look at Jamie Oliver or Nigella, because they knew it was in the UK, so it's going to be UK results.
Real nice, while you're typing, stuff starts to pop up.
I love that.
Pre-search, where it's already giving you ideas.
And the possibility to turn it off.
I mean, yeah, it actually looked at...
Oh, hold on a second.
Oh, man.
Are you there, John?
Oh, boy.
Hold on a second.
Let me see if I can fix this.
If I can't do it in a couple seconds, then I'd have to reroute.
Oops.
Okay, folks, hold on.
Let me get John back on the line.
Okay, John, you there?
Yeah, can you hear me?
Yeah, I'm sorry.
I don't know what happened.
All of a sudden, I think we might have had a...
When you start breaking up, you know, it's possible somebody else is using a machine at your place.
No, no, no, no, that's not it.
I saw the entire router go offline.
Sometimes we get brownouts where I am, and it's just enough to mess with the router, and all of a sudden everything went dead, and I apologize.
I apologize.
It's not your fault.
You should be apologizing for the British utilities company.
Screw those British utilities!
Anyway, so I don't know what Mahalo was.
It looked to me like someone had done some work.
Someone obviously went in and figured out that with cooking recipes, here's some chefs to look at.
That doesn't seem like a real automatic thing to me.
So, there's clearly someone doing some manual work, and, you know, that was, I have to say, I actually sat there and said, hmm, I might use this a couple times, see if I like it.
Yeah, I did some work on it, and I thought it was, well, you know, it wasn't bad.
I mean, I've actually made this comment, I think in print somewhere, which is that, what would be different about the world?
I always do this as an exercise anyway, but What would be different about the world if Google didn't exist?
And I don't think that much would change.
No, nothing that would change anyone's life?
I don't think so.
Well, we'd have nothing to talk about.
That would be a problem.
Oh, man.
You're breaking up a little.
You still there?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, see, I had another hiccup.
You know what?
I'm going to do something here.
I noticed this the other day.
Hold on.
And it could also be the provider.
I've really got to work on this shit.
Hold on.
So if I... I basically just open a ping connection to somewhere out on the net.
Are you still there?
Yeah, I'm here.
Can you hear me?
Yeah, I can hear you.
I basically open a ping connection to somewhere out on the net, and it just keeps the connection alive.
I don't know what the hell is going on.
Sorry.
Interesting.
Well, anyway, so I like to do this exercise, which is imagine what the world would be like with a company missing.
And I've concluded that Google is not...
The be-all and end-all.
I mean, without Google, we'd still be able to get good search results here and there.
Well, of course we could.
I mean, it's ridiculous to think that you couldn't.
No doubt about it.
Remember when Google came on the scene?
They came at the right time, though, John.
The big thing on the search results was how fast they got your results.
So it was all about the speed.
Yeah, but it wasn't any faster than what AltaVista was doing in its heyday.
Ah, no, no, no, no, wait, hold on a second.
I beg to differ.
Remember, these were the days of 56K modems, and when you had these huge pages, and at the time I think it was frames, and you took your computers longer to render, and with Google it was like one page, one search box.
It was a revelation.
I remember this very clearly.
That was the big thing.
I'm not convinced that AltaVista, except for the fact that they were bought...
Hold on, John.
You don't know what they were doing or what to do with digital.
They killed AltaVista.
Who killed?
Digital killed AltaVista?
No, no.
Compaq did.
Compaq Computer.
They didn't kill it.
They just let it languish.
And then Google came along at about the same time, and the next thing you know, they were doing what AltaVista was doing.
I don't think that the difference was that substantial.
something that's reproducible.
And by the way, it doesn't make any difference because that's not really the business.
The business is AdSense.
They don't make money on their search business.
It's on AdSense.
And the search business is, of course, a great part of that and not an important part.
But just because you and I love going to, you know, using Google to search doesn't necessarily put money in Google's pocket.
Right.
So, you know, it's really the advertising business.
And, by the way, not a lot of successful geeks in the advertising business.
No.
And there never will be.
You know, you gotta have finesse, baby.
You gotta have flair.
You know, you gotta know how to talk.
That's what gets you through in Madison Avenue.
Generally.
Yeah.
So, uh...
So I'm looking at this, talking about Madison Avenue.
These segues are fantastic.
Are you going to talk about Mad Men now?
No, I'm looking at Ad Week.
And there was a creative six trends you should know.
And there's this phrase that I was unfamiliar with.
I had to look it up by going to my website.
I have an acronym finder on the homepage, thevort.org slash home.htm.
And are you familiar with the acronym BRIC, B-R-I-C? Brick.
Yes, I am familiar with the acronym in several different contexts.
One is a dimension of a wholesale package of marijuana.
Okay, well, never mind.
Let me get there.
Two is when you have a mobile device or portable device that is rendered unusable, usually through hacking, then you turn it into a brick.
Let me give it to you in context.
The subtitle of this paragraph is Brick Fashions.
The fashion world will be looking to the brick countries in 2008.
The brick countries?
I.e.
countries that have homes made of brick?
No.
Brazil, Russia, India, and China.
Ah, yes, no, I have heard of this.
Actually, I've read this in Financial Times.
It's been a while, but yes, I have heard this.
So it's one of the trends, they say.
And I think this is largely the reason Brazil's in there.
Brazil has a number of international fashion designers who are quite talented.
But then they show this picture of a top fashion designer.
A top like a top a woman would wear.
From Shantanu and Nikhil showing this horrible...
I mean, I don't want to say anything...
I love the Indians.
But India fashion is not something I want to see much of, to be honest about it.
Nor are there movies, by the way.
I love fashion.
I love fashion shows.
I told you I went to the fashion show with my wife in Amsterdam on Sunday.
Nice.
I had my suit on.
Who did you...
Yeah, that suit.
Yeah.
Who was the designer you saw?
Or was it just a bunch of them?
No, no.
It's one designer, Paul Schulte.
And Patricia works with him every season on the show and what the model should look like.
And, of course, I'm highly interested...
Because what I get to do is I get to hang around everywhere and it's just naked models walking around.
It's awesome.
I'm not kidding.
It's not like they're posing, but they're all really tall.
And so I say, you know, excuse me, I just got to hug you for a second.
I know you're feeling the same way because, you know, when tall people hug each other.
And I always get it.
You know, I always get hugged.
It's great.
But I really screwed up this time because my favorite, favorite model of all time, who always walks the Paul Schulte show, because all the mega superstars or big buyers or celebrities, and of course we're none of the above, they sit right in the middle of the front row on the runway.
And so we're actually in an even better spot that's like two spots to the right.
That's where the models make their turn.
So they make their turn right in front of us.
And she always gives me, John, I'm not kidding, she gives me the most wicked look.
I mean, just like, you know, it's like a fantasy.
And, you know, it's a game because, you know, my wife and I laugh about it all the time.
Let's see if she gives you the look.
So anyway, after the show, she's upstairs and she's just taking everything off, essentially, all of her model stuff.
And I said, oh, when's the divorce?
Because my dream has to finally come through.
And she says, March 13th, how did you know?
I'm like, oops.
I felt so shitty.
I felt horrible.
So we took her out to dinner.
You need to feel worse when she starts calling.
Oh, dude.
Not a problem.
I said it right there.
I said, it's okay.
My wife is okay with it.
We can have an affair.
It's not a problem.
Patricia's sitting right next to her.
It was funny.
Speaking of women, John, hold on a second.
Hey guys, I wanted to let you know, first of all, that you do have some STEM privileged women listening to you.
One in Ohio, even.
Crazy.
Couple things.
Adam, if you can't get a tobacco company to sponsor you, you are not fucking trying.
I mean, every time I hear your lighter click, I want to go dig through my coat pockets and see if I have any cigarettes from like five years ago.
It's perfect.
You don't have to change anything.
You just keep doing what you're doing.
It might make you want to mention some brand or something, but I really think you could actually...
Alright, so we got wacky chicks listening to us.
One.
From Ohio.
But we did strike a chord with making money on the show.
I got a couple emails about that.
Did you get any?
Yeah.
Yeah, I got a couple myself, but you know, we'll see.
What was the general consensus?
What were people saying?
Oh, there's tons of money to be made, you know, blah, blah, blah.
Yeah, tons of money.
Where's the grant specialist?
I like the grant idea the best.
I'm like, that's perfect.
The grant idea is very cool.
That would be outstanding to have a show sponsored by a grant and listener donations.
Hell yeah!
Hell yeah!
And we'd do it on a regular...
No, we wouldn't.
I think it's fine.
Once a week is good.
That's enough for people.
No, I was thinking we'd actually do it on the same day is what I was going to say.
Oh, that's never going to happen.
I thought the better of that.
Hello, Adam and John.
This is For No Agenda.
Chris from Leviton here.
I got a message for your haters, Adam.
Listen up, folks.
Food has to be put on the table.
Gas has to be put in the car.
Bills have to be paid.
Insurance has to be paid.
Mortgages have to be paid.
Money makes the world go round.
You don't exist without money.
You're a rotting corpse on the ground.
So I say, fuck anybody who gets mad at him making money from this.
If he can make money by giving me content I want to listen to, fuck yeah.
Go America, go Adam Curry, I don't care.
Do what you gotta do.
If they don't like it, screw them.
The way I see it, if you're getting paid, you're gonna keep doing this, and I'm gonna keep having cool stuff to listen to.
And I like the long format.
There you go.
Who is that?
The stand-up comic Doug Stanhope?
Who is that guy?
He's Chris from Levittown.
He calls in a lot.
So hey, there's something I wanted to mention on the show before we finish up here.
Because we're getting feedback.
We've got enough audience now that we're getting a collective unconscious.
We're actually getting feedback.
You always can tell when you have enough people out there.
I mean, that's what I do when I do the Twitch show.
I'm always asking for clothes, for example.
I seem to get a lot of hoodies.
And it shows, John.
It shows.
When I see you around the office, those are clearly freebies.
So here's what I want now.
Somebody out there has got to have, and I think I'm going to just keep soliciting this until we get it.
I heard, I got wind of this some time ago, and then I decided, and I kind of forgot about it.
I've been trying this trick, but supposedly with Otis elevators and I suppose Schindler elevators and some of the other ones, there are codes on the elevator itself.
In other words, amongst the push buttons, certain combinations of things will get you certain things that the dummy wouldn't normally know.
Special features?
Well, for example, I'm told, at least one of the things, that if you push the closed door button and the floor you want to go onto at the same time, it turns it into express mode.
So it skips all the other floors?
Yeah, just zooms right up.
Awesome!
I'll bet you there's a ton of information about this out there.
I'll bet you that whether that one's even right or not, I have been trying it and I haven't found it not to take, but I'm not using a lot of busy elevators.
But I suspect that because of the nature of, especially the newer elevators that are computer devices, There was a computer running them.
They have to have a ton of secret codes that somebody out there, there's an elevator guy listening to this show, that knows a few of these codes that would be more than happy to tell us what they are.
Yeah, and you can do it completely anonymously.
Just look at the show notes.
There's a phone number there.
You just call it.
We can't trace you.
The government can, but we can't trace you or track you.
And just let us know.
But I just think it would be nice to know these codes.
Sometimes, you know, you're in a hurry.
When did you come up with this?
You just woke up one morning and said, I wonder if I can have the elevator.
No, no.
A number of months ago, I read someplace in some forum or some news group or somewhere that some guy had...
I knew about these codes.
And he talked about the closed door floor button simultaneous push.
And as soon as he said it, I said, yeah, there have to be.
I mean, obviously, if you're programming these elevators, you're going to put a bunch of secret codes because when you're going to repair the things, it's like the phone companies have all kinds of weird numbers they can call.
Yeah.
There's like one number you can dial it and it tells you what the number of the phone is that you're calling from.
Well, that's the whole unlocking thing is also based on codes that you input.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Hey, isn't that the Apple thing this morning, that iPhone something or other, where they're going to announce something about something?
Yeah, probably.
Yeah, who cares?
You know, Apple gets too much publicity as it is.
Yeah, it's true.
But sometimes they do those live on video, and I enjoy watching that.
I love watching Steve Jobs present.
It's beautiful.
He's a master.
It's fucking A, he's a master.
It's just beautiful.
Really, really nice.
Especially when you compare them to the other schlubs in the industry.
It's kind of pathetic.
Who's going to do the big announcements when Yahoo eventually gets sold or bought?
Steve Ballmer's going to do it?
The money is now heading toward...
In fact, I'm writing about this from MarketWatch.
I was waiting for that, yes.
Here's your plug.
I think I'm going to discuss the possibility that AOL and Yahoo get together.
I don't see why this wasn't something people looked at much earlier.
I think it's a perfect combination.
Well, a friend of mine, Andrew Horowitz, who does the Disciplined Investor, he had, a month ago, told me that he was suspicious, and he posted a video, which I have on my blog, by the way, devork.org.
He posted a video that shows, if you overlay the homepage of AOL and Yahoo, it's like the same exact page.
I hope it happens.
That would be beautiful.
That really would.
We can do business with those guys.
I know we can.
Because they both have a little bit of a clue about something.
But not really the whole picture.
Personally, I think AOL is really in a lot of trouble.
I don't follow it.
I have no idea what reports there are.
But it just feels like it's one big script running.
There's nothing behind it.
Is anyone home, basically?
Yeah, you know, ever since Steve Case, even though people didn't like the guy, left.
He was an entertainment guy.
He understood it.
Well, he also had a sense of it.
I mean, he did have the vision.
I mean, he was the captain of the ship.
He's the one who saw.
You know, sometimes you need somebody running things that can say, no, no, that's a bad idea, and here's the reasons why, even though this idea without the guy would go ahead, if you know what I mean.
Wasn't Steve Case in Flock of Seagulls?
God, I hope not.
Seriously?
No, I don't think so.
Yeah, I think for some reason I think that he was in Flock of Seagulls.
I don't think he's ever been a musician.
I mean, prove me wrong.
No, I'm afraid to open my browser now because I don't want to lose the connection.
Well, we'll do it for next week.
We'll figure it out.
But wherever the case is, he's not there now, and the place does look like a rudderless ship.
And people are forgetting about it.
People used to talk about AOL, AOL. All the time, yeah.
Everyone had an AOL.com email address, and now they don't.
It's just really sad.
I still have my Yahoo, though.
Do you still have your Yahoo address?
Yeah, I have a Yahoo address.
I have the Google address.
I got one of the early ones, so I got my name, you know, the right way it should be.
Well, did you have to buy it from someone, or did you have to wait for it to be available?
No, no, I got in really early, and so I got Dvorak.
Ah, okay.
Cool.
So, I don't use it.
I only use Google as a complete backup because I run it through my own server.
Why do you do that?
Is it just because you started out that way and you never wanted to change it or you find it's better for you?
What, to have Dvorak.org?
No, just to have your own.
No, no, no, no.
You actually have, you don't use Gmail or any other.
No, it's hosted over by Mark Perkell over at C-Time, Computer Time.
You know, he's the one who does it.
I've always had my, I've got a domain early.
Dvorak.org.
And I also have Dvorak.com that I don't actually use much.
But I initially got hooked up with a guy in New Jersey who I thought was just a great guy.
And he was running a server.
This was back in the early 90s.
And he says, let me just host it and you can do your email through me.
And it just kind of bounced around from friend to friend.
I went to another guy in Chicago who was doing it for a while.
And then he got burdened because it gets rough unless you're doing it professionally.
And I was going to, you know, move it.
I moved it.
Mark has the email system, you know, where I get no spam.
And so he said, you got to run it through my system because you get no spam.
So I gave it to him.
So I gave it to him, and he's been running it ever since.
And it's like, you know, quid pro quo, I give him his...
His publicity, and he gives me the server space.
And I suspect it'll go someplace else someday, although Mark seems to be in the business for a while.
But yeah, it's been the tradition of me to keep my own stuff in my own server.
Oops.
Did I lose you, John?
Ah.
Just give it a second to catch up, John.
Oh boy.
I would...
We really shouldn't do this show unless it's on a weekend.
Well, anyway, let me just finish this thought and then we can finish.
Okay.
Which is that I'm worried sick that at some point they just pulled a plug on you.
You mean the email provider?
Yeah.
They just pull the plug on you.
Hey, we decided you're a spammer.
They've come up with something.
They don't want you anymore.
And then all your mail's lost and the email people send to it just goes into a black hole.
I just don't like it.
I don't trust these guys.
Right.
Well, you know, you can always, in your MX record, you can always set up a secondary, which could be your, I got no spam guy.
But regardless, it doesn't matter.
I was just always interested because I know that you have it with some guy who gives you no spam.
And send me his email address.
I get spam.
Mark, N-A-R-C at Perkel, P-E-R-K-E-L dot com.
Okay, got it.
Well, you're going up to Washington for the weekend, John?
Yeah, I gotta check in on the deli.
See if we're making money, see if we still got some meat in the freezer.
Hey man, although I enjoy talking to you, I don't like doing the show during a week when the bandwidth is all crappy.
It's distracting and shit.
Yeah, we'll try to avoid it.
Yeah.
You know, just tell Mimi.
Sorry, honey, I can't come up this weekend.
I gotta do the show.
Well, next week for sure we'll do it on Saturday morning or Friday, whenever.
Actually, we've been doing it on Friday a lot.
Saturday is when we have the best bandwidth, or Sunday.
Yeah, and the weekend is always...
And maybe some punk neighborhood kid came home and turned on his BitTorrent.
You don't know what's going on.
It could be anything.
Right.
All right.
See what I did?
I remember the music this time.
John?
Yeah, I hear it.
Acknowledge.
Oh, crap.
All right, this has been No Agenda.
We'll come back at you another time, sometime near the end of next week.
From the United Kingdom, I'm Adam Curry.
And from sunny Northern California, I'm John C. Dvorak.
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