Before Am I Racist? became the number one documentary of the decade, someone had to make it—and that’s where the real story begins. Clearing the A.I.R. takes you deep behind the scenes with Matt Walsh, director Justin Folk, and the entire cast and crew as they pull back the curtain on the making of a cultural phenomenon. We can’t guarantee you’ll create the next hit documentary—but it will entertain the hell out of you.
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Every day of shooting, there was a level of dread and concern that things were about to blow up in our faces.
Just had to ask who you are because you have to be careful.
Never be too careful.
Every 30 seconds, you're like, oh my gosh, are we exposed?
Are we done?
Remind me of your name again.
Stephen.
Stephen?
Yeah?
we had no right to pull off what we pulled off.
That was a robust slate right there.
This film came together in the aftermath of What is a Woman?
What is Woman was a big success and accomplished a great deal.
I think we were all very, very proud of that film.
You put out a podcast and everybody forgets about it by tomorrow and you got to do it again.
What is Woman?
It was my first time helping to create something that had an impact that lasted for longer than a day.
Months later, years later now, people are still talking about that film.
It came out, we were done, we were proud of it.
And all of a sudden, I'm just seeing it every single day on every app that I'm on, Instagram, Reels, and all these social media sites.
I thought, we've got to do something else.
We have to keep the momentum going.
I think we realized that we didn't want to just limp in with a sophomore effort.
Like, we had to kind of go bigger.
They said they want to do a movie about race.
Honest to God, like my first gut reaction, I didn't say it out loud, but like was like, hell no.
This was, you know, summer of 2020 when whole cities were being burnt down over race and now we're going to do race.
It was just as hot as the subject of transgenderism was when we did What is a Woman?
I didn't think it was dangerous.
I mean, it is in a way, obviously.
It's provocative, but that's what we're looking for.
We're looking for the dangerous topics.
Growing up in the 90s, I never thought much about race.
Sure, you noticed if somebody was black or white or Mexican or whatever, but it never really seemed to matter that much.
Maybe it's because of the time and place I was raised, LA, 80s and 90s.
When I was a teenager, I wanted to be easy.
I mean, I didn't want to die of age, but I wanted to be easy.
I was taught and brought up to not see race as an issue.
So I didn't really know that it was as big of an issue that people were making it out to be.
That's how we deal with racism.
We just say, oh, it's not happening.
Yeah, the more you talk about it, the more you are blatantly acknowledging race.
And if you want to forget about it, you need to shut up.
What I guess made it dangerous to me in terms of trying to make a movie about it is that it's so big.
So figuring out you can't just make a movie.
You should say, well, we're making a documentary about race.
What does that mean exactly?
One of the first meetings I had with Justin, he just talked about his interest in pursuing this kind of DEI stuff that was happening was getting bigger and bigger.
Black, Latino, and Indigenous people are suffering and dying.
Violent white supremacy.
White white entitlement.
We've got to do the work.
I put my name on What is a Woman.
Prior to that, I'd worked on a lot of things that were progressive in nature because I'm freelance, so people call me, ask me to do jobs.
I filmed Obama in the Oval Office for a media outlet that is very liberal.
I'm not gonna say it blacklisted me, but it's very likely that they're gonna say, oh, Anson's working on that type of project.
Well, he's not gonna be working on our projects anymore.
I still had one foot in Hollywood and had concerns about my livelihood and would I be hired again in Hollywood if my name was associated with this film.
We need to stop being nice about racism because nothing has been advanced by being nice.
You have to come at it with a lot of humility.
These are massive, massive topics we're going after and powerful people we're going after.
The thing that became very apparent to us was we wanted to do a comedy.
We knew we were taking on these tough issues.
They're hard for people to talk about.
So we really felt like humor was the way that we could kind of pick the lock, get our message across and actually have people listen.
I have a petition.
We want to rename the George Washington Monument to the George Floyd Monument.
We're talking about painting it black.
We're going to raise it 30%, increase in the hype.
You're trying to battle in common sense and facts and being serious about something, but it doesn't work.
Truth is hilarious.
And I think that the truth speaks for itself best in comedy of all forms.
Humor is not easy to do.
It's actually probably the hardest thing to do.
It really does take a credible amount of talent to pull it off.
And this is where Matt Walsh just completely shined.
I told them to find anybody but Justin Folk, and they came back and said he's the only guy willing to work with you.
So I said, shit.
No, of course there's no question at all.
Is he sitting around here?
It was awkward if I'm complimenting him if he's.
Can you leave, Justin?
Get out of here.
Oh, you are there.
I don't compliment people normally, so it's always awkward for me.
One of Justin's best features as a creative is that he's willing to listen to ideas and be collaborative.
It's actually a very rare trait.
Now, he's got a real great creative vision himself, so it's not like he's going into this and he has no idea what to do.
But if you step in and say, well, what about this?
Or what if we think about it this way?
He's willing to listen to that and we can have a conversation about it.
And like I said, that's pretty rare.
There's a lot of egos, you know, in this business.
One of the things that makes documentary filmmaking difficult is it's constantly evolving.
You have to roll with the punches.
You can't get a take two.
With What is a Woman?
Our very first day, Justin told me, hey, by the way, they might cut this interview off immediately.
You know what?
I think this interview is over.
Yeah.
I think this interview is over.
I just said one last question.
Well, the interview's over.
We want to know what is a woman.
I was like, wait, what?
You get the interview that you didn't think you were going to get, and then you have to pivot.
You don't get the interview that you were hoping to get, or you don't get the location that you were going to get.
There are decisions that have to be made along the way.
And not only is it your livelihood that you're entrusting in your director, you're entrusting in your reputation.
Ultimately, the decision is his.
And we all as a team are very confident in him as a director.
He's very much a leader that we all trust.
If you don't have confidence in your director, you have nothing.
Okay, like you might as well direct it yourself.
Sean Hampton has a great quote about directors.
It's that directors are the only people who have seen the movie while we're making it.
He's the only person that actually knows what we're doing.
Everyone else is just kind of showing up and trying to support and help him.
Daily Wire!
Oh, that's good.
That's good.
Okay, now let me grab your hat.
Stay right there.
Don't move.
Justin, compared to most of the directors that I've worked with, is way more planned and organized and strategic and outlined, and there's purpose for everything.
It's not like a director just filming a whole bunch of stuff and saying, here you go, editor, make something cool.
Matt, can you slide just a little bit to your right, just a hair, just a fraction?
A little bit more, a little bit more.
There it is.
There it is.
Okay, ready?
He can see the edit while he's shooting.
Justin understands how to play those moments in the moment, while Anton's shooting, while Matt's in the zone.
Okay, good.
Back down, not down to one.
When I saw his nuanced directing like that, obviously I'd seen What is a Woman?
No safe spaces.
Justin created a genre that didn't exist.
And that's, to me, really exciting because we can push boundaries at that point.
Yeah, I mean, it's a great team.
I really like three of them.
It's pretty good batting average.
Matt's ability to sit in discomfort and just like relish it.
It's such an amazing skill set.
So I think like Matt's ability to do that, coupled with Justin's storytelling, is one of the things that sets it apart.
I would like you to close your eyes.
What does that loss feel like in your body?
Feels like a thousand knives plunging into my soul.
And a sack being hit by bats and bricks.
And the whole sack is thrown into the ocean.
Thank you.
That's what it feels like.
Matt goes to the White Grief Counseling.
That shoot made me the most nervous.
We went into that needing something specific for the story.
But there was no guarantee we're going to get it.
We're moving to her now.
Well, I didn't finish.
Please finish.
Through the sacks, Thorntilshoe, then the SAX taken out and it's set on fire.
Thank you.
That's what it feels like.
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I think with the group setting, it's sort of easier.
It feels like a higher probability to get what you want.
Can you please leave?
I would like it if you left.
I'm trying to learn.
I'm on this journey.
Come with me.
Well, thank you.
I didn't consent to be touched.
Maybe there's somebody in the group who's not exactly reacting how you want, but then you got all these other people.
There's just a lot you can sort of play with there.
And then in a moment.
Are you saying I needed a better disguise?
Is that what you?
I don't know, maybe.
But you can figure that out as you walk out the door.
It all came together.
And it's all things to Matt.
There's nobody I know that's quicker on his feet than Matt.
It was my favorite to film.
It's also my favorite scene in the movie to watch.
The very last scene we filmed, even though it's early in the film.
Obviously, there's a lot of like awkward cringe humor in the film, quite intentionally, of course, but that scene has the most of it.
And it's in a very concentrated form.
I am here to dig a little bit.
I'm sorry, can I?
I forgot one other thing I wanted to promise to the black community.
It's really important that we don't interrupt each other.
That one was hard for so many reasons.
I'm a cinematographer, so I'm thinking about lighting and that sort of thing.
If you notice, there's windows 360 degrees in that room with sunlight coming in.
If you were to film that with no lighting, everybody would look like a silhouette.
So we actually had a light called the Aperture Infinibar mounted to the ceiling.
It took us a day beforehand to pre-rig all that.
So a ton of equipment that we have to break down.
Afterwards, they called the police and the police showed up.
Now, of course, I fled because the cops were called.
As a leader, I left my team behind to deal with the cops.
I was gone.
So I don't know, like, am I going to have to, you know, give a statement to the police?
And also, we're going to be here for hours afterwards, breaking all this equipment down.
So, as far as like the stress of production that day specifically, it was very, very stressful.
Every day of shooting, there was a level of dread and concern that things were about to flow up on our faces.
And there was a divine providence in the works of creating this film that it didn't.
There wasn't one specific moment.
There was every 30 seconds while cameras are rolling that you're like, oh my gosh, are we exposed?
Are we done?
And that just kept on not happening right up until the workshop scene in New York.
If they know that I'm Matt Walsh, I'll always be an outsider.
I need to go deeper undercover.
And that gave rise to this amazing character that Matt got to dive into, this woke man in a wig.
When we were talking about what should Matt's disguise be, he didn't want to shave his beard, to be honest.
Because I have to go home to my family at the end.
I mean, I have to walk in the door to my wife and kids, and I cannot walk in barefaced.
It would legitimately be traumatizing.
My wife's made it very clear that she likes the beard.
She doesn't want to see my entire face.
And when it comes to my face, I guess like from here up is just a better experience than from here down.
What was the question?
The idea of putting him in Professor Grazonka's costume, A, is hilarious.
B, I will give all credit to Sean Hampton who came up with that.
I wish it was my idea.
The first time I saw the disguise, I laughed because it was the perfect bad disguise.
You know, I mean, we, instead of giving him a full transformation, it was like, okay, we want Matt Walsh, but just slightly different and slightly more woke.
I honestly still can't believe that he didn't get recognized.
Like, there were moments where as a team, we were like, oh my gosh, like, we did it.
Like, he's actually not getting recognized.
This is how clueless they are.
That was all it took.
I mean, honestly, I'm still freaking shocked.
People can have their opinions.
People keep on crafting on the wig.
It's a fantastic wig.
I know that because no one called him on it.
As soon as that man bun came on, he was a different guy.
It was incredible to watch.
It was like Clark Kent going into the phone booth, coming out woke, and that was Matt Walsh.
When we're traveling with the Walsh costume, we have the entire wardrobe in a suitcase that we call the football.
And that's a reference to the briefcase that the president carries around for the launch coats and doing nuclear attacks.
And that's exactly how important this thing was to the film.
I thought to myself, well, like, if I choose between sacrificing myself for the wig, I'm going to have to take that bullet.
It's easy to come up with, theoretically, ideas for disguises, but they have to be things that we can do on the fly.
So if we get an opportunity, you know, we hear from Robin D'Angelo, she says, I can talk to you tomorrow.
Then we have to be able to just show up there.
And if it's something that requires seven and a half hours in the makeup chair doing prosthetics and all this stuff, it's just not going to work.
Felt very weird putting it on the first time.
I didn't like it.
The wig was made of human hair.
I was very aware of that, that I'm wearing someone else's hair.
I asked for information on the person.
Did we take it with their consent or without?
I don't know.
So that felt weird at first.
By the end of it though, it became part of me.
I've started to like it.
It's changed me as a person.
I'm revealing something I've never revealed before.
You're telling me I'm full of shit.
You liked wearing the costumes?
Yes.
There were a number of scenes that I did not know if it was going to work or not.
Up until the very moment that we were in those scenes, race to dinner, we have these ladies who are doing this charming dinner for these white women and telling them that they're all racist.
And there's a lot of moving parts there.
There's the food.
There's the filming of it.
There's Matt coming in and out of that scene.
There's just so many things that are taking place.
Matt's security team had bets on how long is this actually going to last.
One guy was like, five minutes.
One guy was like, I think I'll go 23 minutes.
And so everyone's placing these bets.
All you do is talk shit about each other.
Talk shit about yourself.
Oh my God.
Tell that.
That's all they do.
I'm telling you, these white women?
The Indian woman came off camera a few times and was just wondering, hey, what's up with this waiter?
That's all.
We may have to add G to our team.
Oh, I would love to take a seat and join you.
No, you're not allowed to.
Okay.
Definitely not allowed.
I do have my, I have my DEI certification that I got.
So he's kind of throwing off the flow.
Seems, you know, seems odd.
And of course, we were like, oh, we don't, you know, waiter.
I don't know about that.
So many people on our team had to wear so many hats because we had to be so careful about confidentiality and not wanting to get found out.
So I did set decorating and hired the florist.
And then race to dinner, one of their requirements was that we hired a black-owned catering company.
So we hired a catering company and they brought it in, but then we didn't want extra people on set.
We have to have sign an NDA or whatever.
So I actually cooked the food, plated it, was handing the plates to Matt.
Matt dropped the plates.
This country is a piece of shit.
Oh my goodness.
Oh, sorry.
We'd have to like scramble to find a band-aid because he got his hand or we have to hurry up and get the plates all set and back out.
Sorry.
It is a really uncomfortable situation to be out there and I'm making a total ass of myself.
And then you go into the kitchen and it's like, I don't really want to have to keep going.
I want this just to be over.
So I got to like psych myself up each time to go back out there and keep antagonizing them.
He was kind of like, what else can I be doing to kind of like troll this dinner?
And I was like, just take this butter and like really flap it on the plates.
And even if someone's like, no, I'm good, I'm good.
Just, you know, keep, are you sure?
And that was really fun.
All that preparation time, all that work to get to that point paid off because now you're in that moment and you're watching it unfold.
And I wouldn't say my job is done at that point, but it is nice to kind of step back and be like, okay, I'm just going to watch Matt Walsh do his thing.
I'm going to watch this scene.
And frankly, it's pretty enjoyable to watch.
If you sit for an hour watching this whole scene play out, I'm like, what do you cut?
These women in this scene is so crazy, like you could put that out as its own feature-linked dock.
As we kept whittling down to try to get this from an hour and a half to 60 to 30 to 20 to seven or eight minutes now, Justin had to kind of like, hey, man, like, it's not about these women.
It's about, it's about Matt inserting himself so many times over and over just to make the audience just so uncomfortable with all these different moments that Matt is having.
Are you an actor?
Oh, no.
We're trying to listen and trying to have this conversation.
You know, we're all acting all the time in our lives.
And I think that that's part of the problem, you know?
After like the fifth time I came out and interrupted, the audience is almost like groaning a little bit.
Like they think it's funny, but it's almost like they want me to stop too because it's just too much.
It's too uncomfortable.
And I very much felt that as well.
Can I just say one last thing?
Can I just propose a toast?
Raise a glass if you're racist.
Cheers.
Oh, I'm not racist.
Let me check.
Well, all the rest of them.
To racist.
Matt Walsh is a very special talent.
We can come up with all the scenarios we want, but it's on Matt to pull it off.
And he does.
Uncle Frank, it is not funny to mock marginalized people.
It's not a joke.
It's not funny.
So to become this character, he had to understand what this character believes.
This character was a creature of this anti-racist movement, and he actually understood that movement probably even better than some of the people that are in the movement themselves.
Ultimately, should we be colorblind society is what Martin Luther King said, not to judge people by the color of their skin.
So Martin Luther King said a lot of stuff.
Really amazing to watch.
And as a director, it made my job a lot easier.
More and more as the film went on, everyone felt he's just part of the team.
And I felt like Matt feels like he's one of the team.
And I think from a talent perspective, that's exceptional.
I don't know that I saw a need to be like reverent to him as talent.
I think he just really wanted to make a really solid film that would change the culture.
If you ever bump into Matt Walsh on the street, please run up to him, say hi, give him a hug.
He's a really big hugger.
That's just kind of the tenderhearted soul he is.
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Is there a black person around here?
I would hug them and apologize to them all day long for what happened.
That black person right here, does he not exist?
I'm sorry I just didn't look that direction.
Sounds like you're in the habit of overlooking marginalized communities.
Brother, you are an American.
I love you.
I'm sorry for what happened in the past.
For me, the most fun thing to shoot was Washington, D.C. Grassroots, like, we're just going to come out here with a camera and Matt in his wig, and we're going to try to talk to real people.
And we're just going to grab them.
We have a petition to readress historical inequities.
Would you mind signing it?
You will?
We want to rename the George Washington Monument to the George Floyd Monument.
There's something really special about being there.
When you're on the mall in Washington and you're at the monuments, you feel it.
Like you're like, America's not perfect, but pretty cool.
So are you going to race all of them?
Yes.
No.
Well, can you sign it anyway?
Nope.
We have to get permits to be there.
So that was part of my job is pulling permits to make sure that we are okay to be filming on the street.
And getting people to agree to be on cameras, kind of being in the moment and running down the street to find somebody, you know, being out in the middle of the traffic.
Those things are always fun.
We were flying by the seat of our pants.
Even Benyam out there, he was freezing.
He gave his coat to Kelly, the hair and makeup person.
She was cold.
So Benyam's such a gentleman, he gave her his coat.
When you're watching the movie, he's freaking cold.
But he did it anyway.
And he did that so many times.
The truth is, this movie isn't this movie without Benyon.
All of us played a part.
All of us are integral to making this thing.
Film is such a collaborative medium.
You really do rely on everybody to do their job.
You have to trust people.
You have to allow them to do what they're going to do.
And ultimately, you're putting these people in these roles for a reason because they're smart people and they're good at what they do.
This is probably the first project that I've worked on, whether it's Hollywood or in the conservative space, where I completely trusted everybody.
I never had to make sure that Anton had done his thing or make sure that Rebecca had sent that email.
That was something that was really powerful.
So for me, like having our team be who they are was the most important thing to me.
And so my job as a director is to just harness that and let those people run and do that and keep just sort of reminding all of us about what the vision is of this film.
I think the entire film was difficult to make.
Essentially, we're creating these scenarios for Matt to be in.
The way I describe it is we created a sandbox for him to play in.
At any moment, it could all take a turn and go completely in the wrong direction.
The Robin DiAngelo scene, which was the first time I went on camera, we didn't quite know what is the craziest thing to do in this scenario.
Well, why don't we try to get her to pay some more reparations?
I want to pay you reparations right now.
Will you accept?
I won't turn it down.
Okay.
I don't know.
Well, this is all I have.
I don't remember where that idea came from.
I want to say it was my idea because I want to say that all the good ideas were mine.
We went into that interview with a rough kind of outline of what we wanted to get out of it.
But it is very rough because, again, you don't know what's going to happen.
You don't know what someone's going to, you can't script it.
And I've found through two movies now, as long as I know where this is all supposed to go, what is my end point supposed to be?
then I feel pretty confident that we can sort of construct a plan and then revise it on the fly to get to that end point.
Did you want to pay any?
That was really weird.
Why was it weird?
I don't know.
This just seems really weird to me.
Of all the things that we did and all the kind of little stunts we wanted to pull, that was the tallest task.
This is a real person.
This is not a cartoon.
There's no way we can get her to actually do this.
The moment she got up was a feeling of pretty immense pride in our team and what we pulled off.
It was that moment where I think collectively we realized, well, we have a movie now.
When Justin sent the hard drive for D'Angelo, I'm like, dude, you guys got this already?
This is gold.
This is like the end of our film.
Everything else that came after that was just cherry on the top.
And then you get like race to dinner.
I'm like, you guys got this?
How do you guys pull this off?
There's a lot of power that Matt has when it comes to him being very, very comfortable with silence.
A lot of people can't handle that.
Robin can't handle that.
When Matt asked her the question and just let it hang in the air.
Because I think reparations is like a systemic.
This is something that I can do right now.
Why wouldn't I do it?
You'll actually see Robin start looking around the room for anyone, anyone to give her an excuse to not go down the road of her own ideology.
In that moment, I kind of had a new hope about conservative and conservative media actually being able to take on Hollywood.
When you make a film, it takes a considerable amount of time and you go into essentially a dark room with a computer and you just pour over things for weeks and months at a time.
And ultimately, you don't know if what you're making is good or not.
I was pretty well terrified before it came out, especially once we decided to release in theaters.
I believed in the film, we all believed in the film, but there are a lot of films that are good and the people who made them believed in them and they didn't work.
When you finally get to sit down in an actual movie theater with people and hear them laugh and hear them gasp and hear them groan at some of the uncomfortable points in the film where they're just crawling out of their skin, there's something really magical to that.
I think about 10 minutes into that experience is when I finally was like, okay, we're good.
And I wasn't worried anymore.
And hearing how much they really legitimately loved it, like thinking that all the things that we thought were hilarious were hilarious, like that's, it just, it just clicked with the audience.
It brought in huge crowds this opening weekend.
Your movie is really funny.
It's really funny.
It's one of the best comedies I've seen in a long time.
It's had enormous success in exposing just how strange and dangerous this movement has become.
The impact that this film has had is huge.
This film was wildly successful.
The most profitable political documentary of the past 20 years.
We are showing people that we can create culture and not just fight.
Fighting it is important, but creating the reality that we want to live in is everything.
My goal for this film, which is actually similar to What is a Woman, it's the same goal.
It's courage.
I want people to have courage to speak out against bad ideas.
This experience has really taught me something.
The anti-racist industry says that America is racist down to its bones.
And if that were true, there wouldn't be anything we could do about it.
White people could only wallow in their guilt and black people in their victimhood.
This movie gives people permission to question things that were not allowed to be questioned two years ago.
That's the Andrew Breitbart line.
Politics is downstream from culture.
And this film does shape and move culture.
I would get texts and phone calls from people that I haven't talked to in years or old college buddies or whatever saying like, dude, you worked on Walsh's dock?
This is badass.
Like over and over again, people saying like, this stuff is crazy and all stuff like that.
They don't say that I'm racist and you're a victim because that's what they think we are.
They tell us that because that's what they want us to be.
Well, it's time for us to say no.
Do I think that most Americans are racist?
No, absolutely not.
I think most Americans just care about getting through their day.
And if you're nice to them, they might be your friend.
I grew up in a community that is predominantly a black community and never ever looked at anybody any different.
They were just my friends.
I think for me, the biggest lesson of all is just to love people with your heart and not look at people's skin color.
That's it.
A lot of these bad ideas that are dominating this cultural battle of ours is being ran by and organized by a powerful, a vocal, well-funded, but a very, very small minority of people.
Once you get out of that bubble, once you talk to the average person, you realize it has a lot less power than you think it is.
I've kind of been working on decentering my whiteness.
Oh, you white man?
No, baby, I'll be the same thing, dude.
If I caught you like that, you'll be just like me.
I think just what Milton said, I almost could start crying.
Like, we just kind of love each other, you know?
And I think the divisiveness that's happening in our country is heartbreaking.
And when you see someone like Milton, you know, hit Matt's arm and be like, we all believe the same.
Like, we just got to love each other.
Great final note to end on.
Hey, that's okay.
Is that good?
Is that it?
Yeah.
Is that it?
They're going to say I'm racist.
But they call everybody racist.
I guess that means nobody is racist.
Nah, it doesn't mean much when you say it, when you say it.
They gon' say you racist, but they call everybody racist.
I guess that means nobody is racist.
Much when you say Will you set us free?
They gon' say I'm racist, but they call everybody racist.
I guess that means nobody is racist.
Nah, it doesn't mean much when you say it.
When you say it, they gon' say you racist, but they call everybody racist.
