Matt Walsh Revisits His What Is A Woman Interview With Dr. Forcier
Matt Walsh revisits the interview he had with Dr. Forcier during the filming of his documentary What Is A Woman?
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Well, you know, we talked to a lot of people for my film, What Is A Woman, which is streaming now exclusively on The Daily Wire, and you go to whatiswoman.com and get signed up and you can watch the film right now.
Many of the conversations we had were unintentionally hilarious.
Many were disturbing.
Veering significantly over to the disturbing end of the spectrum is my interview with Dr. Michelle Forcier, who is, as you'll hear her proudly identify herself, a gender-affirming pediatrician and also an abortionist.
We flew up to Providence, Rhode Island to speak with Dr. Forcier.
She was, you know, friendly enough at first, and what we found in many of the interviews that you'll see in What Is A Woman is that gender ideologues are very polite and nice, Right up until the moment when you express any skepticism at all.
But before we get to that point, where things really start to sort of fall apart, let's get to know Michelle a little bit.
My name is Michelle Forcier, and I have a medical degree from University of Connecticut Residency, University of Utah Pediatrics, and I've worked for a number of different Planned Parenthoods for 20 years.
I do advanced contraception and abortion, as well as gender hormones, and sort of looking at the whole sort of schema of gender, sex, and reproductive justice.
So you've done a lot of work in this field.
Could you just start by telling us?
Sure.
At what age can a child first begin to transition into another gender or identify themselves as a gender different from how they were born.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, there's research and data that show that babies and infants understand differences in gender.
Some children figure out their gender really early, and the reason why we say, oh, that's interesting or important is because they're figuring out their gender identity is not necessarily congruent with their sex assigned at birth.
When the doctor sees the penis and says, this is a male, Has the sex of male, that's an arbitrary distinction?
Telling that family, based on that little penis, that your child is absolutely, 100% male-identified, no matter what else occurs in their life, that's not correct.
So what does gender affirmation carry?
You're a big proponent of, if we walk through, a child is sitting down with you, is questioning their gender.
What's the gender affirmation process?
Affirmation means that as a pediatrician, as someone who says, my job is to provide the best medical care for you, is I need to listen really carefully.
And how I put it in words for kids so that they can understand it is, tell me your story.
Where have you been in terms of your gender and your gender identity?
Where are you right now?
And more excitingly, where would you like to be in the future?
Have you ever met a four-year-old Who believes in Santa Claus?
Mm-hmm.
So this is someone who believes that a fat man is traveling through the sky on a flying reindeer at lightning speed, coming down his chimney with presents?
Yeah.
Would you say that this is someone who maybe has a tenuous grasp on reality?
They have an appropriate four-year-old handle on the reality that's very real for them.
Agreed, agreed.
But Santa Claus is real for them, but Santa Claus is not actually real.
Yeah, well, but Santa Claus does deliver their Christmas presents.
Well, yeah, but he's not real, though.
To that child, they are.
When I see a child who, you know, believes in Santa Claus, and then, let's say this is a boy, and he says, I'm a girl.
Mm-hmm.
This is someone who can't distinguish between fantasy and reality, so how could you take that as a reality?
I would say that as a pediatrician and as a parent, I would say how wonderful my four-year-old and their imagination is.
You know, one of the hardest things as we did this film, especially interviewing somebody like that, is not, like, my instinct is just to yell at them to begin with, but that's not what the, it's kind of a short film if it's just me going around yelling at people.
The objective here is to ask questions, and that's all we did through the whole film, is just ask questions.
And let gender ideology essentially hang itself is the idea.
And to show, is this something that can withstand scrutiny or not?
Even just basic scrutiny.
And what we discovered is that it can't.
So what's happening in that exchange is, first of all, she says, talking about a child who sits down with her, is she wants to know about their gender journey, and where would you like to be in the future?
So she's talking about a child's, like, five-year gender plan.
But the point I was trying to get across to her is that children don't have a grasp on reality.
I mean, even if, in theory, people could choose their own gender, Which they can't, but if they could, it wouldn't make sense to say that a child could choose it.
Children believe in Santa Claus, so what do they know about reality?
If a child is four years old and believes that not only Santa Claus is real, but that fairies and dragons, and lives appropriately in this kind of fantasy world, and then the boy says that I'm a girl, That claim exists within the same fantasy world.
This is just imagination.
This is a kid who just doesn't understand the distinction between fantasy and reality.
So how can they make these determinations?
But then again, as we found there, Michelle wouldn't even affirm that Santa doesn't exist.
So I was unclear about that also.
Do you actually think that Santa exists?
What's happening?
As you're talking to these people, you feel yourself going slightly insane.
So it was a pretty bewildering exchange there, but it only gets weirder from here.
Let's keep watching.
Male gametes.
That's what makes me male.
No.
Your sperm don't make you male.
Then what does?
It's a constellation.
In reality.
In truth.
Okay?
Whose truth are we talking about?
The same truth that says we're sitting in this room right now, you and I. No.
You're not listening.
If I see a chicken laying eggs and I say, that's a female chicken laying eggs, did I assign female, or am I just observing a physical reality that's happening in the world?
Does a chicken have gender identity?
Does a chicken cry?
Does a chicken commit suicide?
Let's frame it, because you're talking, you're trying to... A chicken has sex, like any biological organism.
A chicken has an assigned gender, but a chicken doesn't have a gender identity.
So we assign female to chickens when they lay eggs?
We assume they're female if they lay eggs.
That right there will go down for me as maybe one of the most, probably, and every other thing that makes it on this particular list also happened in the film, but certainly one of the most outrageous exchanges I've ever had with anybody.
And of course, see, this is what happens when you start asking questions to the gender, to the proponent of gender ideology, is they, you know, they start, They end up backing themselves into various corners and they have to make increasingly more wild sort of claims to get themselves out of the corners that they've backed themselves into.
And so, when you're talking about sex, for example, like it's all on a spectrum.
And sex is something that is, as she says in our conversation, she says that sex is assigned at birth.
That just, like, doctors are just deciding this kind of arbitrarily.
Well, if that's the nature of sex, then what about other organisms aside from human beings?
Okay, we would also say that when a chicken is laying eggs, oh, well, that's a female chicken.
Are we assigning that?
Is that just something we've decided?
The chicken is female?
Or is the chicken female?
And if the chicken is female, then that would tell us something about the nature of biological sex, which is that it's not assigned, it is observed.
But she can't go along with that, and so she starts talking about the chicken's gender identity and whether chickens commit suicide.
And it doesn't get much better from there.
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At what age does the medical transition begin with medication?
So medical affirmation begins when the patient says they're ready for it.
So that could be a kiddo who is just starting puberty and panicking because they're getting breast buds, or their penis is getting bigger and busier, and they're worried about all kinds of masculine changes.
And that way, puberty blockers, which are completely reversible and don't have permanent effects, are wonderful because we can put that pause on puberty Just like if you were listening to music, you put the pause on, and we stopped the blockers, and puberty would go right back to where it was.
The next note in the song just delayed that period of time.
This is a part from later in the film, as we start getting into more of the specifics here about puberty blockers.
And I'm not going to say myself right now a lot in response to that, because you have to go watch the film.
Because, as I said, I'm asking questions, and we don't just ask questions of people on this side.
We bring in other people.
So there's a little bit of a back and forth here, but we're gonna get a response in the film to this claim that puberty can just be, you know, just pause it, as she says, like music.
Does the human body work that way?
I mean, is that the way it works?
Where you can take a drug, To intentionally interfere with certain normal, healthy processes, and then there's no negative consequences at all?
Just stop taking the drug and pick up where you left off?
Which of course, the interesting thing is that even if that was true, which it isn't, as you'll see in the film, but even if it was true, well then wouldn't that mean, I mean, if a child's taking puberty blockers, To stop their normal development, and then we're just putting it on pause for, let's say, five years.
And then they decide that, okay, I don't want to take this anymore.
Well, at a minimum, now they're going to be five years behind in their growth and development.
So even according to her version of events, at a minimum, you're going to have stunted growth.
And you're going to have someone who is behind in their physical development.
But actually, the consequences are a lot worse than that.
As we discover in the film, and as we get into this next exchange about the puberty blockers themselves, what are they?
What do they do?
What is their actual purpose?
Let's watch that.
One of the drugs used is Lupron, right?
Which has actually been used to chemically castrate sex offenders?
You know what?
I'm not sure that we should continue with this interview because it seems like it's going in a particular direction.
Well, you're a medical professional.
I am a medical professional.
So you don't want to talk about the drugs that you give to kids or...
Again, I'm a physician and I use medication.
You're choosing exploitive words.
Drugs, I give to you.
I'm choosing a word that was in a dictionary.
That's not a correct term for puberty blocking.
I could look it up on my phone, but I'm pretty sure if I looked it up... You can look it up on your phone.
It says medical definition, the administration of a drug to bring about a marked reduction in the body's production of androgens and especially testosterone.
And I'm saying, as a pediatrician who takes care of hundreds of these kids, when you use that terminology, you are being malignant and harmful.
I mean, there are some who would say that giving chemical castration drugs to kids is malignant and harmful.
It's about the context of caring for a child and seeing the suffering that kids can have that have not been an affirmative home situation.
So that was the part in our conversation where things got a bit contentious.
But I wouldn't say that that's when they started to get contentious.
Actually, what we discovered in doing these interviews is that, you know, I kind of knew going in I had certain points in mind where I thought, okay, well, when I ask this question, things might get a little bit tense.
And I kind of know because that's more of a challenging question.
And what I found so often in these interviews is that things got tense much earlier than I originally thought they would because there were questions that I thought would be really easy for the person that I'm talking to that turned out not to be easy at all.
Questions like, What's the difference between sex and gender?
You know, these are like that's that's supposed to be a softball But even that things start go off the rails in a lot of these interviews when I ask even a question like that Because what we found is that these people these gender ideologues, especially the ones who are in this Industry and they're making a lot of money off of promoting gender confusion, especially in kids It's that what we found is that they are not prepared to encounter any Skepticism at all.
They're not prepared to answer any questions.
The only questions they're prepared to answer are the questions that are not really questions at all, right?
Questions like, uh, how, how meaningful is it to you to be able to help people in their gender journey?
Like that, those kinds of questions where it's just a setup for them to give a pre-planned canned, uh, you know, speech.
So by the time we got to this exchange, it had already gotten pretty tense.
And, uh, And of course, I ask her about Lupron.
Now, this is a drug that she gives to kids, and as we hear from somebody else in the film, Scott Nugent, who has experience with these kinds of drugs, personal experience, this drug in particular is a drug.
It is actually, by definition, chemical castration, which is why I wasn't planning on doing this, but I pulled out my phone, looked up the definition of chemical castration.
She says that chemical castration, that's an exploitative word, and I'm being malignant and harmful by using that word.
Well, Look up the definition of chemical castration, and that is a puberty blocker.
That is, by definition, when you give a kid a puberty blocker, you are performing chemical castration on the kid.
Period.
And we know that because Lupron, specifically, has been used to chemically castrate sex offenders.
You notice in that exchange, by the way, she didn't deny.
She takes issue with the words that I'm using.
She threatens to get up and storm out.
She's offended by the way that I'm phrasing it, the words.
But she never says, oh no, that's totally incorrect.
Lupron does not do that.
Lupron's never been used that way.
Doesn't say that, because she can't.
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And finally, of course, we get to the THE question, which is a question I ask everyone, which is, what is a woman?
And probably it's not going to surprise you by now that she doesn't exactly have an answer for it, but let's listen to what she comes up with.
So we're going on this journey, boys can be girls, girls can be boys, men can be women, women can be men.
It makes me wonder, what is a woman?
What is a woman?
A woman is someone who claims that as their identity.
It could be many things to many people.
That was our answer.
Well, a woman is anyone.
And that was, by the way, not to give any spoilers away, but that is the answer From the left to the question, which is a non-answer.
It's the same thing as not answering at all.
But that is the answer.
A woman is someone who says they're a woman.
And of course, to everyone who gives me that answer in the film, I have the follow-up.
A woman is someone who identifies as a woman.
What are they identifying as?
And around and around we go.
Because they don't have an answer to the question.
This is a medical doctor who can't tell you what a woman is.
I mean, this is someone who, if someone goes to her as a man and says, you know, I'm really a woman and I want to transition into a woman, she will help facilitate that process, and yet she doesn't know what the word means.
She doesn't actually know.
She, by her own testimony, when someone says, I want to transition into a woman, she doesn't even know what that means.
Like, what are you transitioning into?
She has no idea.
As we found over and over again in the film, and that was just a few minutes of the film, only one person of the dozens that we spoke to.
And I can tell you right now that what we heard in those clips there, I don't think any of it qualifies as quite the craziest thing we heard.
The chicken part gets pretty close, still not all the way there.
There's so much more that you need to see, but you have to go to whatisawoman.com and subscribe to see it.
