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Sept. 26, 2018 - The Matt Walsh Show

17:39

Ep. 111 - Should Students Be Allowed To Sit During The Pledge Of Allegiance?

A public school student in Texas was expelled for repeatedly refusing to stand for the Pledge. For me, the problem with kids sitting during the pledge isn't that they lack patriotism, but that they lack respect for their elders and obedience to authority. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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	All right.
	Hello, everybody.
	Happy National Pancake Day, by the way.
	I don't know if you can hear it, but I'm coming down with a little bit of a thing, a little bit of a sickness.
	And so I'm going to try to get through this best I can.
	Actually, my whole family's been sick for the last week.
	And I thought that I had escaped.
	I was feeling pretty proud of myself.
	I was feeling proud of my immune system.
	And so I was saying to my immune system, way to go.
	I'm proud of you.
	And then it immediately just let me down.
	You know, there's nothing worse, by the way, than being the last person in the family to get sick.
	Nothing worse than that.
	Because, for one thing, you're left out.
	I mean, you're left out to begin with because everybody's sick at the same time, and they're hanging out, and they're bonding, and they're having their popsicles and their soup, and they're having sick people conversations, and you're the odd man out.
	But then, it flips around.
	And they're all healthy, and all the soup and all the popsicles are gone, and nobody wants to bond anymore.
	They're all staying away from you because they don't want to get the sickness again.
	And the other problem is that there's the comparison that they'll make.
	So everyone draws comparisons.
	So they'll say, oh, you're still sick after three days?
	Well, I was fine after two, trying to make you feel like a wimp.
	Or they'll go the other direction, and they'll say, oh, you only have a fever of 100?
	Well, I had a fever of 115.
	And so I don't know, maybe.
	Which is probably a total exaggeration, by the way.
	Anyway, I want to take a break from the Kavanaugh Circus to talk about a different circus, this one down in Texas.
	There's an interesting case involving the Pledge of Allegiance.
	And let me read the report from the Washington Times for you.
	It says, Texas state officials have intervened in a dispute over the Pledge of Allegiance, backing a local school district's expulsion of a student who sat during it.
	According to a report in the Houston Chronicle, Attorney General Ken Paxton filed a notice to intervene in a civil rights lawsuit brought against Cypress-Fairbanks ISD, arguing that schoolchildren cannot unilaterally refuse to participate in the pledge.
	Student India Landry was expelled from Winfern High School last fall for refusing to participate in the pledge, saying she's been inspired by the NFL players such as Colin Kaepernick.
	With the support of her parents, Ms.
	Landry, who is black, then sued the Cyfair ISD, saying the expulsion violated her free speech rights and was racially motivated.
	The Attorney General's filing cites a Supreme Court finding that government can back, quote, the national flag as a symbol of our country.
	Texas law allows parents to submit a letter claiming an exemption from standing for the pledge, but it apparently was not filed by Ms.
	Landry's parents.
	The Texas law says standing for the pledge is mandatory otherwise.
	And so...
	Okay, that's the story.
	So, I have a few different points, several opinions here, and I'm all over the map, so I'm sure that I'll alienate everyone.
	That's my goal here, is I'm going to alienate everyone, and by the end of this, both sides will disagree with me.
	Because that's where I feel most comfortable, is where everybody is mad at me.
	So, first of all, and I know that I will not find many conservative people who will agree with me on this point.
	I am not a fan, really, of the Pledge of Allegiance in public school.
	The thing itself is fine, but the mandatory Pledge of Allegiance, I'm not a fan of that.
	I don't like it for two reasons.
	One, I'm not sure I see the point in forcing kids to stand and pledge allegiance to their country.
	It seems to be a bit of an empty ritual to me.
	I mean, this thing as a ritual doesn't make sense to me.
	Now, if you can show me that it increases patriotism and that it's likely to really sink in and help kids be loyal and patriotic citizens, then maybe I'll change my mind.
	But I don't think it has that effect.
	I don't think you can show me that.
	I don't think that that's really been the trend of things.
	In fact, It seems like patriotism has been sort of plummeting, even though kids are forced to say the pledge.
	I'm not saying that saying the pledge causes the patriotism to plummet, but what I am saying is, I don't think there's any evidence that forcing kids to say the pledge is likely to instill patriotism in them.
	I think it has no effect one way or another.
	And by definition, a pledge of loyalty and fidelity that you're forced to say A pledge of appreciation for freedom, which you are compelled to say, seems rather counter-intuitive.
	Because when you say to a kid, stand and pledge your loyalty, or you'll be expelled, it seems unlikely that the pledge will then mean anything, because then they're just doing what they have to do, they're doing what they're told.
	Vows and pledges which are compelled are not really, therefore, vows or pledges.
	They are just words that you were forced to say, and so you said them.
	Two, I don't like the Pledge of Allegiance because it says, one nation, indivisible.
	Now, the one nation under God, the under God part, I like.
	Indivisible, I don't like.
	Now, I don't mean to get into semantics, but the nation is not actually indivisible.
	I believe that states have the right, or ought to have the right, to secede if they like.
	Because the state of California, for instance, would they want to secede?
	Well, California is not owned by the federal government, okay?
	The federal government doesn't own California.
	It doesn't own the people of California.
	It doesn't own California itself.
	California entered into the union by choice.
	It should have the choice to leave if it wants to.
	I kind of hope it does, but that's beside the point.
	So, Indivisible, to me, I just don't like it.
	In fact, the Pledge of Allegiance was originally written, a lot of people don't know this, the Pledge of Allegiance was written by a guy named Francis Bellamy, who was a socialist.
	Okay, so this was a socialist idea, to have everybody getting up and forced to say, you know, the Pledge, One Nation, Indivisible.
	This was a socialist idea to begin with, and I think you can kind of see why.
	So that's my feeling on the Pledge.
	But, second, this is where I start to win back maybe some conservatives.
	Who knows?
	Here's my second point.
	Even though I'm not a big fan of the pledge at school, I think that kids ought to stand for it.
	Although I don't necessarily think the pledge accomplishes anything, I think as long as it's being recited, kids should stand for it.
	Now, as an adult who's not in public school, I have the right to, you know, I can make my own decisions about the pledge.
	I can do what I want.
	But children in school should be required to obey.
	You know, that's my main issue with kids who don't stand for the pledge.
	It's not that they're being unpatriotic because, as I said, forced expressions of patriotism are not really patriotism.
	But the issue to me is that they're being disobedient and that they're calling attention to themselves and they're refusing to respect the authority of the people who are in charge of them at school.
	That, to me, is the issue.
	It is disobedience.
	So we have somewhere along the line we've completely lost sight of this idea of obedience and respect for your elders.
	And listen, I know that since time immemorial, adults have been complaining that kids don't respect their elders and don't listen.
	But now we seem to have categorically kind of Rejected, given up on the very idea of kids being required to obey.
	And this has a lot to do with parents.
	So you have parents who send their kids to school and the kid is disobedient, disrespectful, defiant.
	And then the parents find out about it and they side with their kid against the adults.
	These parents, they want to have it both ways.
	They want the school system to babysit their kids.
	But they don't want the school system to have any authority over their kids.
	You can't do that.
	If you're putting your kid under the authority of the school system, then the kid must be required to respect that authority.
	And you, if you're a good parent, should tell your kid that.
	My kids, you know, they know that when they're being watched by a babysitter, or if they're going to Nana and Grandpa's house, or if they're ever in the custody of some adult who is not Mommy or Daddy, they know, because we tell them, that those adults now have the authority of Mommy and Daddy.
	And they are to listen, and they are to obey.
	And if the babysitter tells us that the kids were being disrespectful, we're not going to take the kid's side.
	You know, in fact, my wife and I came home from a date night a few weeks ago and the babysitter told us that our daughter screamed at her and stomped out of the room for some reason or another.
	And so I went upstairs and my daughter was already in bed and I got her out of bed and I marched her downstairs and I made her apologize to the babysitter.
	I didn't take her side.
	I didn't say, well, honey, why did you stomp out of the room and scream at the bed?
	Oh, she was mean to you?
	Well, then it's okay.
	I'm going to make her apologize to you.
	No, I didn't do that because I'm not a horrible parent.
	I entrusted my child into the care of this babysitter.
	And so now it's my responsibility to back up the babysitter.
	And to take her side.
	And that's how it should be with school, too.
	When I went to public school, my parents were very clear that I was to listen to my teacher, do as I was told, be respectful.
	And now, I didn't always fulfill that obligation, okay?
	But when I failed to fulfill it, which frankly was pretty often, my parents almost always took the teacher's side against me.
	And rightly so.
	This student, from what I read, disobeyed her teachers, refused to stand some 200 times, okay?
	This was consistent defiance of the people who were in charge of her.
	And no, she does not have a right to defy them.
	She has to do what she's told.
	Because she's a kid, and she's at school, and they're in charge of her.
	And that's what her parents should be telling her.
	They should be telling her, oh, you have, okay, you don't like the pledge.
	That's, you know, we could talk about that.
	You have interesting ideas.
	That's fine.
	But when you're at school, you do what you're told.
	Third point.
	People say this is a free speech thing.
	Kids have free speech in school.
	Well, no, they don't.
	Actually.
	This idea that kids just have blanket free speech in school is so stupid.
	It's so crazy.
	Public schools are government institutions.
	You are sending your kid to a government building, entrusting them into the care of government employees.
	You are handing over your kids to whatever programs, whatever rules, whatever systems this government institution has in place.
	Don't like it?
	Don't send them to public school!
	But if you send them there, you can't then go on about their freedoms and their rights.
	They are children who you as the parent have put under the authority of this government institution.
	So they do not have the right to do whatever they want, say whatever they want, make whatever statements they want.
	They don't have that right.
	They don't have it.
	Now, even if they weren't in public school, they still wouldn't have the right to do and say whatever they want.
	Children do not have full free speech rights.
	Children, because they are not yet emancipated, are always under the authority of someone, whether it's a parent, a teacher, a guardian, a babysitter, whatever.
	And those authority figures have the right and the power to require the children to do things and not do things.
	Now, obviously, if those things that they're being required to do are criminal or immoral, Um, then, uh, then children, you know, have the right to disobey, but, but barring that children must obey.
	My kids do not have free speech in my house.
	Okay.
	My house is not a democracy.
	Uh, they don't have equal rights.
	They don't have free speech rights.
	They don't have first amendment rights.
	They don't have second.
	They don't have third.
	They don't have any of the amendment rights in my house.
	None of them.
	I got news for you because it's my house.
	You know, and so they have to listen.
	My kids don't.
	I have free speech in my house.
	My wife has free speech.
	Our kids, because they are our kids, and we're in charge of them, and we own the house, and we own everything, because of that, they're required to obey.
	So if my daughter calls my son a little dumb boy, which she did this morning, by the way.
	My son came running upstairs because my daughter had called him a little dumb boy.
	And in fact, she called him dumb.
	This is like a thing.
	We're trying to break her of this habit.
	She's getting in the habit of calling him dumb.
	And a few days ago, she called him dumb.
	And I said to her, why did you say that?
	Which is a dumb question on my part.
	It's just instinctive.
	But I said, why did you say that?
	Why did you call him dumb?
	And she said, because he was acting dumb.
	And I wanted to say, OK, well, all right.
	Fair enough.
	But anyway, so she called her brother a little dumb boy.
	And so we had to talk to her about that.
	She can't claim.
	That it's her First Amendment right to say that.
	The First Amendment is irrelevant.
	She has no right to say that to her brother.
	You know why she has no right to say that to her brother?
	Because we as the parents have told her she's not allowed to say that.
	And so she does, she gets punished.
	That's how it works with kids.
	So all these people that are talking about free speech, I mean, is that how you parent?
	Do you really parent according to the Bill of Rights with your kids?
	No.
	Kids have to listen and obey because they're kids.
	They don't have all the same rights because they don't have the same responsibilities.
	As an adult, you pay taxes, you have the ability to own things, you have a job.
	And also, if you commit a crime, you can go to prison for the rest of your life.
	You know, you're tried as an adult.
	So there are all these different responsibilities and things that you face as an adult.
	And so there are certain rights that come along with those.
	But as a child, you have really no legal responsibilities whatsoever.
	You own nothing.
	You do nothing.
	Right?
	You're always under the authority of someone.
	You're always under the direct authority of someone.
	And so therefore you don't have all the same rights.
	This idea that kids can just go to school and they can just say whatever they want, make whatever statements they want, do whatever they want.
	That's chaos.
	If that, if we actually, if schools actually operated that way, well then schools would not be able to operate.
	We may as well just get rid of the school system and have no schools anymore because it's just not possible for a school to function that way.
	Kids must be forced and compelled to listen and obey.
	And as a parent, again, if you're a good parent and you're sending your kid to school, you should be telling your kid that.
	Now, I know for me, you know, when I was a kid, if I disobeyed my parents, I got in big trouble.
	But if I disobeyed an adult who my parents had entrusted me to, if I disobeyed them, I got in even more trouble for that.
	Because my parents saw it as, you know, it's defiance, and it's also an embarrassment to them.
	They feel like they're being embarrassed by my behavior.
	And so I get in even more trouble.
	I just don't understand these parents who say, well, you're not my kid's parent.
	You don't have any authority.
	Well, if you don't want the teachers to have any authority over your kid, don't send them to school!
	You better keep them home and homeschool them if you don't want any teachers to have authority over your kid.
	But if you send them there and you're using the school system as a babysitter, well then there are certain things that come along with that and it means that your kid has to listen.
	So, yeah.
	You know what?
	We can talk about the Pledge of Allegiance.
	We can have an academic conversation about it.
	We can have an interesting conversation.
	And, you know, we can express our opinions about it.
	In school, if this is what the teacher tells you to do, then you should do it because it's not immoral.
	It's not illegal.
	So you stand and you listen and you obey.
	So that's my feeling about this.
	I mean, and then as far as expelling a kid for not saying the pledge, you know, that to me seems rather extreme.
	I'm not a big fan of that.
	But then again, if it's a rule and she's not listening and she's had 200 chances, what are you supposed to do at a certain point?
	So.
	All right.
	We'll leave it there, but I'll be interested to read some of your comments because I think it's an interesting conversation.
	Thanks for listening.
	Thanks for watching.

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