Co-hots Jared Yates Sexton and Nick Hauselman return for the final Muckrake episode of 2025, and the vibes are… kinda emotionally stable. They look back on a year that somehow felt darker than 2020, then pivot straight into the current circus: Trump raging at the media, posturing about the Epstein files, hosting Zelensky at Mar-a-Lago, and then parroting Putin’s lines like the Oval Office has a Kremlin teleprompter.
From there, the conversation goes where 2025 always seems to go: Into the flashing dashboard lights of institutional collapse, Trump’s visible decline, and the unnerving signals that J.D. Vance is already laying 2028 groundwork with Turning Point backing. And if that wasn’t bleak enough, they close with an absolutely cursed focus group of Gen Z Republicans that reads like a “content brain” case study, complete with casual extremism, conspiracy marination, and the kind of political illiteracy that would be funny if it wasn’t actively setting things on fire.
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I'm Jerry D.H. Saxton, and we've got good news for everybody.
The rumors are true.
The boys are back in town.
The boys are back.
I'm here with Nick Halzman.
How you doing, bud?
I'm good.
I'm good.
Always good.
Post Christmas cheer.
Are you feeling that Christmas cheer?
If you're watching on YouTube, maybe you can see Nick's got a glow about him, rosy cheeks.
Is that what you're feeling?
You know, it's funny.
I didn't, I'll tell you this.
Feeling neutral has to be considered positive at this point.
I think that is a beautiful way to look at it.
Yes.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
So I didn't, it wasn't down.
I was able to stay neutral and emotionally stable.
And I think that that's all we can ask for at this moment while we're getting our bearings.
Well, I wasn't able to stay emotionally stable.
So I'm very jealous.
Oh, that's awesome.
Good point.
I'm sorry for you for that, though.
How are you stable in this very moment?
Is stable in the room with me?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I never even heard her.
I have no idea.
And that's part of what we have to talk about today.
Before we get going, a reminder, we need your help.
We need your support.
We are independent media.
We are living in the dying days of corporate media.
And why is corporate media dying, Nick?
Because nobody trusts it.
Nobody believes any of the bullshit that they're spewing anymore.
It's tired.
It's old.
It needs to lay down and pass away into the dustbin of history.
We need your support, though.
We don't have ads.
We don't have people who are, we don't have billionaire benefactors who are paying us in order to carry their laundry and spout their paraded talking points.
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Head over to patreon.com slash muttgregpodcast to support the show, as well as to get the weekender episode every Friday.
We will be back this Friday with an episode of The Weekender, patreon.com slash Mutt Gregpodcast.
We really, really do need your support.
Nick, this is going to come out on Tuesday, December 30th, which means this is the last episode of the Mutt Greg podcast in 2025 AD, the year of our Lord, which means that we are about to enter into 2026.
Before we get going with the stories of the day, I think we should take a quick look back on 2025.
How would you, if you had to, how would you characterize this past year?
Like emotionally, personally, politically, what are you walking away from 2025 feeling?
Oh, as negative as I could probably feel about any year in our life.
You think it was worse than like 2020?
Yeah.
That was a tough year.
Yeah.
Okay.
Cause of the COVID, right?
I mean, yeah.
Was it worse than having a pandemic?
I suppose you have to put it slightly above pandemic level trauma.
But it was, there was a pandemic of our institutions and democracy itself falling victim to something.
So, you know, is there some solace that we knew eventually the pandemic would be solved or whatever, not solved, but like, you know, we would have gotten through that.
Whereas it ain't so clear where we're going to get through this.
That could be part of it as well.
So I don't know.
I think this is definitely different, right?
The feeling I had at the end of 2020, you know, because we were all quarantined, basically.
We didn't see each other.
That was just a, it's much different.
This feels darker to me.
I believe it or not.
It does.
I think this feels darker to me.
2025 was a kick in the teeth.
I don't know really how else to characterize it.
You know, we've been on this beat.
Nick, how many years?
You're the one who keeps track of this stuff.
How many years have we been doing this?
Five.
No, seven?
Six or seven years.
I don't know.
Like the better part of a decade we've been doing this.
And I, you know, we've been talking about where this thing was going.
And we've been talking about all these signals and connecting all these dots and reading the writing on the wall.
And we knew where all this was going to head eventually if it if things didn't change, if we didn't pick a different path and if we didn't, you know, actually answer the problems that were leading us in this direction.
It was really something.
And, you know, it feels, it feels like a decade ago, January 20th, getting to the inauguration day.
Remember how bad inauguration day felt?
Like it wasn't just the awful ascendance of Donald Trump back to the presidency.
It was the oligarchy.
It was this blitzkrieg of executive orders, just absolutely dismantling everything.
They came on very strong.
And since then, I mean, it's everything from dealing with the secret police to the building of outsourcing of concentration camps, a surveillance state that is under construction, rampant and utter corruption, a president who is decomposing in front of our very eyes.
And on top of that, it has the veneer of competence is just completely non-existent, totally corrupt, and totally gleefully abusive.
And what you just said about, you know, feeling like eventually, yeah, we might get this thing under control.
2025 and moving into 2026, it feels like venturing into the dark and assuming that someday the sun will rise again, you know, because it has in the past, but really being like deep, deep, knee-deep in the dark is what it feels like.
You know what's interesting is this is more of a Thursday or a Friday show for the weekender, but I watched this Matthew McConaughey movie where he's driving the bus in Paradise, California with kids to get out of the fires from 2018.
And is it, I don't think I'm going to ruin it because I think everyone knows that this is a happy-ish ending, right?
Like anyway, the point is, is that they're in the midst of fire and it's in this, you know, up in the mountains, whatever.
And he just floors it, right?
And just goes through fire, hell, trees, the whole thing.
But what was startling about it was that they get through it and it's instant.
All of a sudden, it's just clear skies and no flames and no nothing.
And they almost can't even believe it.
They're looking around going, whoa.
So I kind of want to say like that could very well sort of happen in this sort of thing.
We want to, I mean, all of a sudden it's so quick and it can flip so quickly that we can get back to some sort of what we're looking for.
I hope it can happen that way, but it certainly hit me that, you know, that could very well be what it ends up being.
And it's startlingly so, like how quickly it could change.
That's a very Hollywood ending.
Right.
I mean, and startling too, the contrast, you know, the discord, discordant feeling of going from absolute hell into deliverance, more or less.
I don't know that it can happen that quickly, but I do feel, and I'm interested to hear what you have to say about it.
I was saying this the other day on my check-in show with Daniel Moody.
I feel like 2026 is going to be the reaction to what 2025 has been.
I feel like there's going to be a lot of rage that's going to come out.
A lot of people who are really, really tired of going through hell, what you just described.
Like they're tired of being in the flames and they're tired of being on this crazy train.
And I don't know where that's going to lead.
I don't know what type of reaction there's going to be.
I don't know whether or not there's going to be a construction of a resistance.
There's going to be that sort of apparatus that's going to meet it and make the best out of it.
But I feel like 2026 will, in essence, be a reaction to what 2025 has been.
Yeah, but I also feel like it's going to be governed by this sort of temple events.
Things are going to happen.
Like if it's Trump's health, you know what I mean?
There are certain things that are going to create.
Is it Gaza?
Is it Ukraine?
Things are going to be sort of maybe even outside of the purview of the control of Trump that will spike these things in 2026.
I feel like we're going to have more of those as we move forward.
Even know exactly why I feel that way, but I mean certainly the help thing.
It just seems like we're moving toward that either way.
Well I, I think you feel that way because um, everything's kind of gather, gathering right, because it's not just, it's not just that Trump is losing control.
I mean, he doesn't really have control, you know, he's not really competent, he's not really capable we'll talk about that more in just a second but also America's not either.
Like everything you're talking about, like we keep talking about flashpoints, how there's a flashpoint over here, there's a flashpoint over here.
I think one time I sort of compared it to like being in a car where all of the lights are coming on in the dashboard.
Yeah.
Right.
Everything is starting to fail.
The question is, what thing will go out first?
And will it go out in combination of other things?
And so, yeah, I think there are going to be events that we can't imagine that are going to change the paradigm here.
Well, let me ask you this.
Coming out of two world wars or after in the middle of the 40s, do you think that that, the sacrifice that we had to go through and the people did in terms of serving their country to overcome fascism?
Did that have a material effect on the way people treated each other and the way society functioned in the immediate aftermath of that?
Well, I mean, after World War I, this is something they didn't really teach in the history books, but there was a massive, massive racial war that took place in the United States of America in which white Americans came back and they were like, oh, black people are getting ahead.
We can't let that happen.
World War II, there was a period of time where it seemed like that was a possibility, but fear of communism, which was also part of what happened after World War I. In both cases, it was sort of the fear-mongering that happened.
Whatever residual effects could have happened there, they were overtaken by a lot of, you know, basically fear-mongering, more or less.
You know, the reason why I bring it up is I was kind of reflecting on I was in Japan for two weeks over the summer.
There's no crime.
There's no litter.
You know, the society, and there's a lot of sort of empathy and respect for people.
And then you come back here and you kind of see the baseline, you know, sort of disrespect of community in and of itself.
Now, there's moments you could find pockets all over the place of good, of good, you know, stuff.
But, you know, I just think of the fact that there's no garbage cans around in Japan.
You have to carry your garbage with you until you get home and you put it in your garbage can in your house.
Like in America, people just throw the stuff on the street.
They wouldn't even think twice, right?
Like that, that, even that baseline kind of, you know, lack of respect for, you know, infrastructure in a way that the MAGA movement and where we are now has always been this way, right?
And it's been sort of hidden.
And the question then is, is as it's being brought to the forefront, what do we need to then get to this notion of out of the hell and out of the flames and back into where we want?
Is it simply just getting a few of the cleaving off a few of the people in that movement to get back somewhere else?
Or is it just to kind of tamp it down and get into the upside down and put the blanket on top of it or a few blankets?
And so that it's muted and you can't hear it.
Well, so there's a question, right, which is, and this is something I've been trying to take great care in saying, which is we have to decide not just what we don't want to be.
We have to decide what it is that we want to be.
You know, you can't just make everything a rejection of something else.
And then you don't get anywhere.
And when you sort of work with those dynamics, like it really doesn't build something.
And so I don't know.
I think you look back, and this will be the final thing I say about 2025.
I don't want another year like that.
Yeah.
Right.
I don't, it's one of those things.
And it's not just like politics.
Like I don't want to live the way that I lived in 2025.
I don't want to live in a country that feels like what America felt like in 2025.
And so you can kind of say, okay, this is what I don't want.
But then that begs the question, which is, what do you want?
And hopefully, if we do this the right way, we can look back and be like, okay, this was the rock bottom.
Now we get to decide something else.
Really well said, really well said.
And I think what you're speaking to is politicians too, because they need to be able to refine their platforms much better, much more clearly.
And I don't think it's worth even saying that the usual bromides and usual, oh, we want cheaper prices for everybody.
Everyone should get a house, like whatever other things we've heard in the past from any either side.
There needs to be a fresh start from this and figure out new ways to express really what will help people and what will galvanize people together.
I think that's a big part of it.
That's the question.
Yeah.
And just run on destroying anything that, you know, like the ballroom and tearing down all the stuff that, you know, I mean, I think, you know, putting the West or the Oval Office back to, you know, the austere decoration that it had before, any all that stuff too.
Man, it bugs you so much.
Architecture, man.
Architecture, man.
Well, speaking of shit that bugs us, over the holidays, I hope everyone got a little bit of time with people.
I hope they got to refresh.
Maybe they even got to zero in on the reason for the season, whatever that is for you.
The president of the United States of America, Donald Trump, spent his holiday raging against NBC and other TV networks, as well as people who want to release the Epstein files.
He then welcomed Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky to Mar-a-Lago, tried to work on a peace treaty, which he says is 95% done.
Meanwhile, Vladimir Putin attacked Kiev, wreaking absolute havoc and hell.
Here is a quick snippet from the press conference in which Trump was appearing with Zelensky.
Yeah.
So in your conversation with President Putin, did you discuss what responsibility Russia will have for any kind of reconstruction of Ukraine post-agreement?
I did.
They're going to be helping.
Russia is going to be helping.
Russia wants to see Ukraine succeed.
Once it sounds a little strange, but I was explaining to the president.
President Putin was very generous in his feeling toward Ukraine succeeding, including supplying energy, electricity, and other things at very low prices.
So a lot of good things came out of that call today, but they were in the works for two weeks with Steve and with Jared and Marco and everybody.
So that is President Trump after talking to Vladimir Putin on the phone for two hours, reportedly, saying that Putin wants the best for Ukraine.
He wants it to succeed.
So everything's going to be fine, right, Nick?
Oh, that's so nice of Vlad.
I had no idea he had it in him.
But again, the notion that he would say that and he would echo this.
And this is the thing.
It's not, this is the president of the United States echoing, parroting the talking points of the Kremlin, which is confirmed like in all the reporting in Russia right now.
They're ecstatic.
They can't believe how deep in the ass Putin's ass Trump is.
He is that literally, you know, and the notion that we would have a fucking American president talking like this, especially because if you're going to have Zelensky and Zelensky was attacked, right?
He's the guy having to battle the aggressor.
You don't have a call with the aggressor first to get like all your ducks in a row to figure out what you're going to say.
But this is the second time that Trump has done this.
It's completely disrespectful to the person that he's hosting in the White House.
Well, and to go along with that, Nick, so Putin told Trump on this call that Zelensky and the Ukrainians had sent a swarm of drones to attack his personal residence, right?
So here's the thing, Nick.
So let's say you're president of the United States of America, right?
Like you, are the chief executive of the supposed most powerful country in the world, a rival tells you that there was an attack on your private residence.
Who would you call immediately after the call to verify whether or not that was true?
Probably your ally in Uh, in Ukraine.
You'd probably either call Ukraine to ask if that had happened, or you might get on the phone with your intelligence agencies and say hey, did this thing happen?
Did Trump do any of those things?
No, No, of course he didn't.
And here's the thing.
I've been thinking about this a lot over the past couple of weeks, Nick.
We've talked often about how Donald Trump is the worst possible person.
And, you know, I guarantee there are worse people who could come along, but he is the worst person who in the history of the presidency has been there.
Least competent, least intellectually curious, laziest.
But also on top of that, Nick, like as he's decomposing, you literally have Vladimir Putin just bullshitting him.
And he can't, like, whether it is just a kinship with a dictator or just like his inability to actually care about what anything is, he can't even sort fiction from fact anymore.
He's just, he's just out there doing it live.
To borrow one of my favorite quotes from the 20th century, fuck it.
Let's do it live.
That's what he's doing at all times.
And there's a reason why he can't get this peace deal over the finish line because he's not actually engaged.
He's not actually doing anything here.
Well, is there any way to truly believe that Putin wants to see Ukraine succeed literally the day after he's bombing residential neighborhoods of Kiev?
Like, is there any questions murdering people?
Right.
And Trump knows this, right?
So I think time out, Nick.
You're not president of the United States of America.
You are not in the Pentagon.
Right.
What if Vladimir Putin had his brothers?
Let's see if you know this.
What would Vladimir Putin like to see happen to Ukraine if he just had full reign?
He can take control of the entire country.
He would take control of the entire country and either turn it into a satellite state or absorb it back into Russia, correct?
Correct.
Okay, you know this.
Are you an expert in Russiology?
No.
Okay, cool.
That's great.
That's awesome.
But my point is my point is, is that like he probably in two hours is a long time, Jared, right?
To have a conversation.
Lots of words, lots of things.
I mean, if you're falling in love with somebody and you're like dangling your feet over the side of the bed and like, you know, you're like twisting the cord around your finger, maybe.
Right.
I mean, by the way, in that case, the call maybe seemed like five minutes then.
I don't know.
Lots of words, lots of things being said, probably more from Putin than Trump.
What can he remember?
Oh, I want the best for Ukraine.
Like, that's one thing in that brain of his.
Oh, I can remember that.
I'm going to spit it out without any kind of sense of like, you just saw him murder people.
You know, that's not a credible thing.
He might not even know that.
He might not even know that Putin struck Kiev.
Okay.
I mean, I would, okay.
I'm not that far.
I would think that he knew at least that.
But you're making it.
Does he?
I don't know.
Well, I know.
We've literally gotten to the point where we have a president whose brain is frozen yogurt, minus any toppings at this point.
I don't know that he, I don't know that he knew that Putin struck Kiev as he was negotiating this.
I don't know that he knew that.
I don't know it.
Here's what it sounds like you really, you're hoping for, you want.
Remember the scene in Dr. Strangelove when the president has to have a discussion with Yuri, the Russian premier, and they're going back and forth.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't even think you're going to hear the Russian on the other line.
You only hear Peter, the president, like talking on one side.
It sounds like you want that.
A guy, because he's incredulous.
He's like, listen, I'm not here to do a, he sounds almost like reasonable, but you want some pushback.
You want some suspicion.
You want something from American being suspicious and being concerned about what Russia is doing.
And by the way, when you watch that movie, it's the basis, most baseline ridiculousness where this is not even a competency anyway.
You could dig Peter Sellers up.
He's been dead for 45 years and put him in the Oval Office.
I think he would be a better executive.
Yeah.
Like, that's, I, I, I do want when we're talking about this, and I, I'm an analyst.
That's what I do, right?
I, I, I never thought that I was going to, and, and by the way, thank God for Joe Biden's problems because Joe Biden's decline helped shift the paradigm of the American presidency a little bit.
And Reagan did, but nobody talked about it, right?
Right.
But we're now to the point where if we're talking about Donald Trump, right?
Okay.
So you and I, we've been doing this for years, right?
So when we talk about Donald Trump and people are asking us, why did something happen, right?
Why did Trump do this thing?
It's the usual suspects, right?
It's he's being abusive.
He likes abusing people and dominating people.
He's making money off of it.
He's doing this to gain more power for himself, right?
Those are like the three major drivers of Donald Trump, correct?
Correct.
Okay.
We now have to add a fourth one in, Nick, which is he's not well.
Right.
So now all of a sudden you, and it helps for people to think about this.
If, if you saw this in a president in another country, you would be open to it.
It was like back Kim Jong-il, Nick.
You might remember this.
Before Kim Jong-il in North Korea, like, you know, shed the moral coil, there was a period of time where everyone's like, oh, he's losing it.
Yeah.
Right.
He's getting old.
He's kind of losing it.
You can see it with other leaders, but in America, because of the myth of American exceptionalism, you don't pay attention to it as much.
This guy doesn't know what the fuck is going on.
Yeah.
He doesn't know.
And at least with Joe Biden, Nick, Biden couldn't speak too good.
Biden had problems like at certain times, he'd be exhausted.
At least Joe Biden took the job seriously enough to confer with intelligence agencies to make sure that all the notes are right, to make sure that when he was feeling more lucid, he could come back to it.
This guy doesn't even have that.
Was he more lucid in 2017, 2018?
Trump?
Yeah.
Nick, I've gone back to watch the Trump from his first administration.
It's honest to God, shocking.
Yeah, right?
Right.
In a way where he does seem a lot more, you know, with it, right?
But we can't ignore that even then, he was not listening to his intelligence community at the time either.
Sure.
So I mean, at least then he could keep half of his facts straight.
How are they able to get the whole he's a secret agent of Russia completely?
I guess the Russia hoax thing won out.
It was right.
Russia, Russia, Russia was too much of a siren song for people and then versus the complex narrative of collusion that they couldn't quite prove to conspiracy.
I think Russia blackmailed him.
I also think Jeffrey Epstein helped in that and Paul Manafort helped in that.
I don't even think they need to blackmail him anymore.
Yeah.
Right.
They don't even need to hold something over his head.
They just tell him things and he believes them.
You are aware that his left hand is now being covered with yes, yes, yes.
Are now covered, because he's getting Iv flu treatments uh, at you know monthly uh, at a very specific time.
So, I listen I, I know we're not supposed to get out ahead of our skis in pontificate or or make up but um, you know, I think we are both.
Uh, am I permitted to say that he's being treated monthly via iv something?
I I, I think all the dots are there to assume that something is happening.
Yes, by the way Nick, as all this is happening, China currently has Taiwan completely surrounded for live fire exercises and we've got, we've got president Pudding For Brains like in charge, like that's what we're dealing with.
How often does China do military exercises around Taiwan?
They, they do, but they.
This is like one of the largest buildups in history.
And again, this goes into what 2026 is going to look like, like America is falling apart and the president unfortunately, is an apt metaphor for the decline of America.
I got an interesting question, is it easier for China to take over Taiwan and Trump's in the presidency versus not in the presidency?
Well Nick, so this.
I wasn't going to talk about this on this show, but there is a report that has been leaked out that's been making the rounds.
So the U.s military was basically tasked, and the Pentagon was tasked with creating a report that would simulate what would happen if America went to war with China right now, and the report more or less said, China would whip our ass, like China would win that war for a variety of different reasons.
Now, when you come across these reports nick, there's always you always have to kind of like look at them a little askew, because are they doing it to ask for more money or are they actually giving an accurate report of how things would play out?
Usually you would have an executive sitting behind the desk who would be able to look at this thing or at least have it summarized to them, and he would be, or they would be like well, we either need to do this or do this, or this is actually not true.
I I cannot tell you how perfect of a scenario this is right now for China and Russia and the bricks countries, all of them.
They, they are sitting in the catbird seat at this point.
They have to be absolutely thrilled.
Well, but so I don't know if you know where i'm getting with this because um, I have to imagine one of the scenarios that Trump would ultimately uh advocate for would be to do nothing, sure you know.
So let's just say, you know, takes over Taiwan right uh, probably wouldn't do anything.
Um, another president would probably maybe not be that way.
Nick, I can tell you right now I didn't plan on talking about any of this on this episode today I can tell you right now that Japan feels like that it might be their responsibility to help Taiwan.
It's supposed to be the?
U.s.
With a little bit of help from Japan.
But some people in Japan right now, some experts in Japan right now, think it would be entirely on them, like that, the idea that Trump wouldn't do anything to help.
Is it possible that China has enough uh insights and enough spies we'll call it spies to know the extent of Trump's health?
I have to assume that Russia knows That.
I also have to assume that Israel knows that.
I have to assume that basically anybody with a couple of sets of eyes knows it at this point.
Right.
Because I don't think it's that far-fetched to think that he's on his iPhone in the oval, you know, texting away that they could know that.
So all these things are really concerning in the sense that it puts a different kind of urgency on what these are happening, which is why we've already talked about like, well, why did Putin go into Ukraine when Biden was in office?
Right.
And there are levels to like the timing.
And I'm sure these are all considerations and thoughts about what they can do to benefit themselves.
So this one, though, would certainly make me concerned that if there was an issue where like Trump wasn't going to be in office and people sort of knew that, that can accelerate timelines or create stuff where opportunities that make it, you know, really horrible for the people like in Taiwan who would be, I'm sure there would just be untold amount of death.
Well, speaking of those timelines, we also have to talk about these leaks that are coming out that JD Vance is setting up basically an exploratory campaign, trying to put in the infrastructure and apparatus that would be necessary to win the presidency in 2028.
And guess what?
Turning point USA, Nick, they're pushing their chips.
Erica Kirk and Turning Point are just pushing their chips into the middle of the table right now with JD Vance.
They have plans to help him in Iowa and beyond.
And that begs a question, Nick, because I don't know that Vance would be putting this together if Trump was well.
I don't know that this would be the consideration after all.
The drumbeat has been there for a long time to keep Trump in for a third term and try and make it happen.
So now all of a sudden, speaking of signals that you have to look at and wonder exactly what's going on, I think this speaks a little bit to where Donald Trump is and exactly where the state of play is at this point.
Well, I mean, there would have been a day at some point in the future where the vice president would begin this process, right?
Now, you feel like it's way early.
Well, okay, so I think usually the vice president of the United States of America does not really make a big show out of like getting involved in the next campaign.
That simply it's actually, weirdly enough, now that we're talking about this, this is one of the things that hampers a VP in, you know, getting elected after the president.
You're not supposed to be out there campaigning, taking, you know, focus away from the administration, but that also goes double or triple or quadruple for the VP of someone like Donald Trump, who isn't going to want his VP out there taking up oxygen.
So, no, this isn't, this isn't normal.
I'll go ahead and say it that way.
This is not normal.
Okay.
Yeah.
And I would agree.
I would think that a typical situation would be at least the midterms would be done.
And then maybe they start to not see the VP of a sitting president putting together a presidential campaign until at least the year before the presidential election.
Yeah.
Probably.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
And the thing with Turning Point, I mean, I feel like we had this discussion last time about them and whether their effect was waning or not, or, you know, it wasn't galvanized now that Charlie Kirk is not around any longer.
But I certainly think that, you know, why did they pick Vance versus anybody else, which is interesting?
I mean, he's got some of the bona fides in terms of the religious stuff, I suppose.
The wife, they probably don't like, right?
And we could talk about the fingers through the hair.
Well, turning point, Turning Point doesn't care about the racial stuff, which is sort of where they and the Groypers and like the neo-Nazis sort of aren't.
They're running across from each other.
They don't care so much about the wife, but yes, the Erica Kirk stuff is strange.
I hear what you're alluding to.
And also, Erica Kirk, independent of JD Vance, is strange.
There's some whole thing is very strange.
Yes.
Yeah.
And again, I really, as one human to another, feel like this is really, there's a moment, there's a period of grieving that didn't happen that psychically that needed to happen that she needs to prepare.
Like there's something going on there that I think that hasn't been taken care of.
Well, okay.
So there's a lot that you just threw out.
First of all, I didn't plan on talking about the Erica Kirk part of this.
I think Erica Kirk is one of those people that was waiting for her moment in the spotlight.
I don't think the way that she's behaving necessarily says that there was a conspiracy to kill her husband, but I do think that she was very excited, like in order to have the camera trained on her.
Did I just dream about this?
Or was there imagery of her like shaking her tail feather to the camera?
And did you see that?
And Mike?
No, I think you probably saw an internet meme.
You don't think that was real?
Okay.
I thought, Dad, I don't know that I don't know that that was real.
I'm sorry.
It might have been real, but either way.
But the whole point, the whole point is that what Vance is putting together is he's trying to bridge over the MAGA divide.
So for instance, I talked about how Turning Point, once Charlie Kirk died, all of that sort of coalition, it started to splinter, right?
People don't look at how there are individuals that hold these things together.
And when they fall apart, like the sort of apparatus of it starts to spread and maybe even break.
That happened with Turning Point when Kirk died.
That's why there has been this major sort of vacuum that you've seen everyone from Erica Kirk to Ben Shapiro to Tucker Carlson to Nick Wentz, you name it.
JD Vance is attempting to be the new bridge that will hold the MAGA coalition together.
That is everything that he has been doing in the past year.
It's everything that he has been trying to do as the VP.
And quite frankly, I mean, I think this also signals that Donald Trump is in serious decline.
Yeah.
I don't think that, but here's the thing, Nick.
We've been following Trump for years now.
You've been analyzing him as much as anybody.
Is he the type of person who'd say, you know what?
I got my second term.
I'm done.
Oh, no.
In terms of just coasting, I mean, it'd be nice if he did that, just hung out Mar-a-Lago and played golf the whole time.
But would he or would he not, if he was capable, run for a third term?
Oh, I see.
I have no, he's already told us that so many times.
I have no doubt.
Or he would take over, you know, and just basically not allow free and fair elections.
Something has shifted that has allowed JD Vance to take that sort of, you know, trajectory.
And he, of course, is going to be the candidate of the tech oligarchs, the crypto Nazis, and the Christian nationalists.
And he's going to try and bring the regular sort of whitebred Republicans along with him.
But what we're seeing right now, more or less, is putting together, if they're starting this in 2026, like that is a major, major marker that he is probably going to be the nominee going into 2028, unless all hell breaks loose, which it totally could.
Well, I think that what you're trying to say then is Marjorie Taylor Greene was a little few months too early.
Yeah.
So Marjorie Taylor Greene just got featured in the New York Times, which are words that I didn't expect to say anytime soon.
Can you say more about how you feel about that?
Because I read that as well as somebody who's going to take some time, who's going to sort of figure out what she wants to do.
This is what I've been predicting for a while.
She's going to figure out how to make money and gain power over this.
But also, like, I would not be surprised to see her throw her hat in the ring in 2028.
I wouldn't be shocked.
Well, you know me.
I live in a state of naivete where I just assume everybody means what they say and they're good people down earth.
How's that been going?
A lot of wallet inspectors you've been running across.
You know, it's great.
There's people in foreign countries that are benefiting greatly from all of my donations.
Now, I would like to think that the fever broke and she's finally realized, and this is what this article is trying to tell us, Jared, that she, but what was interesting was it was the Charlie Kirk death that seemed to have the, that broke her, because again, you know, if she's going to try and capitalize on Trump's decline, whereas J.D. Dance is doing, and perhaps it's even sanctioned to some degree, then she obviously this is, she didn't do this at the right timing.
This needed to be a little bit later, but she wants to say that it was Trump when he said that Erica Kurtz forgives the murderer of her husband.
He's like, I hate him.
I can't, I want people to be hating each other, whatever he said, that horrible thing.
I think we even featured on this show.
That's the thing that really like sort of seemed to wake her up and she realized that this is not Christian.
It's not what we're supposed to be doing.
Nick, are you familiar with the term rationalization?
I'm very familiar.
Listen, what would we do without a good rationalization every day?
Rationalization for those at home who might not be familiar with it.
It's the story we tell ourselves to be able to sleep at night.
Why did you do the things that you have done?
And I read this article and I, Nick, Marjorie Taylor, we're going into 2026.
We are part of the long Trump decade right now.
That's where we're at right now.
This is a decade that has lasted longer than a decade.
It's been a while.
Donald Trump has been one of the most disgusting, repulsive human beings that has ever been birthed out of this country before.
You're telling me that Marjorie Taylor Greene heard him say that and was like, I might be out.
That might be enough for me.
She hadn't heard him say anything else ever.
That was the thing.
This is the story that she's telling.
She is an incredibly talented bullshitter.
And what's more, Nick, she knows what liberals want to hear.
And these, everything that she is saying is just num, nom, It's just, it's like the treats I give my cats.
You shake the thing and they come running.
This is liberal catnip is what it is.
Oh, just that's not what a Christian is.
And I couldn't believe that he said that.
Yes, you can.
You have known Donald Trump for nearly a decade.
You have heard him say one thing after another.
That was not so shocking that it made you reconsider everything.
Right.
Well, okay.
Well, then we have to go back to the fact that he told her not to run for the Senate.
The Senate.
That was really upsetting to her, which she brings up.
You know, the other thing that kind of becomes clear in the way that this is phrased, this is a first person article.
The journalist is writing it in the first person.
And they've been doing these interviews for years.
It's really interesting.
So they have insights into way before she broke with the president, which again makes me wonder why they buried a lot of this information until now.
But I'm waiting for the book, I guess, Jared.
But you do get the sense that, you know, when you get your information from a very specific source and only one specific source like she did, she seems to recognize that now, which is really, really fascinating to me to hear that.
Having no idea, even like the New York Times, like what they were really about, because all she'd ever heard about them was from what Trump would say or what Fox News would say or Newsmax.
I don't know why.
Okay.
You don't think she's like stuck in that bubble either anyway?
I mean, I think she was, sure, but I don't, I don't buy that she's suddenly, I'm so, I can't, I'm not going to buy into this thing.
I'm not going to keep trying to kick that football.
I can't do it.
I think that there was, I think, you know, what you kind of get into between the lines is like the sheer ignorance of a lot of the things because they don't, they don't, you know, remember, she was a QAnon before this.
And so, you know, I hope at some point maybe we'll find out more about January 6th and what her involvement was in that.
Well, by the way, speaking of people in echo chambers, a really interesting article came out over the holidays.
It was from City Journal.
The article is called Everyone Wants to Know What Gen Z Republicans Think.
We asked them.
One of my favorite things to do on this show, Nick, low-key, we don't do it very often, is when we go through a focus group.
that's been published because it's always incredibly telling.
So in this case, they got together 20 Gen Z Republicans and they asked them a bunch of questions.
I'm going to start with the first question, which was, what do they think about Nick Fuentes?
And for people who do not know, Nick Fuentes is an anti-Semitic neo-Nazi who has become more and more popular within the GOP.
Moderator, what do you think of Nick Fuentes?
George answers, I think it's hilarious.
I agree with a lot of his points.
He definitely doesn't care about how it's going to be reacted to, which I respect, but I also think it can be kind of dangerous.
I think I read earlier that he's not ever planning on running for political office, which I think is probably a good thing.
There's a lot of baggage attached to him.
I just think he's funny, honestly.
And though, and through that humor, he's saying a lot of things that I kind of align with.
He said that all blacks should be in jail on Pierce Morgan.
And I was like, oh my God, this guy's kind of a psycho.
Okay, Nick, that was that answer, that paragraph of an answer is kind of like taking a road trip and waking up on the opposite coast of the country.
That went a lot of places, didn't it?
I think we have been a new genre of comedy, psychotic hilarity.
I don't know what you call it, but like, you know, listen, did Donald, not Donald, did Howard Stern sort of develop an entire, you know, persona in a similar way around the most outrageous things you could say?
You know, but doesn't it seem to like feel like he's like, oh, he's just being outrageous, right?
Kind of feels that way.
But when you listen to Fuentes, people may not be familiar.
He is a true believer about the, is, about the Holocaust denying stuff.
I mean, absolutely he is.
And by the way, Nick, on that, that part of what you just said, I want to share a little bit further in the answer.
Jayden of the group about Nick Fuentes says it's brain rot and misinformation too.
And George, the guy I just read who said that, he replies, yeah, I'll admit my brain's definitely getting fried.
I tried to delete the apps and everything, but I still find myself drawn to it.
So what I want to point out here, Nick, what you just pointed out about Howard Stern and persona shock jock type stuff.
You know how we've talked often about these, these focus groups and we always talk about how the people who are being interviewed have no idea what's going on at all.
What's happening, Nick?
They're being entertained.
It's not about politics.
It's not about what's getting done or not getting done.
They're having a good time.
That's what's happening, period.
Yeah.
And by the way, like when you're that age, you know, when you're in the mid-20s, you don't have like existential, you know, thought sessions where you're like, I don't think, right?
You're still building things.
You're still figuring out who you are.
You know, I would hope and pray that people of that age are still thinking that there's going to be some positive things and like, you know, progressions in their lives because it can be very dark very quickly with the way the, you know, our economy is working, right?
So I would like to think that like, yes, they're not sort of in the sense of like, well, I can't see how this is going to shape myself in 20, 30 years when I'm really, you know, life is really starting to solidify around me.
So, you know, I hope that's that's the case.
But again, there needs to be some rejection of certain kind of things that are being said from certain people.
But if he's drawn back to that, you know, it's like, oh, I laughed.
That was kind of funny.
But then, oh, Jesus, he said, what?
Like, I can't go back there.
And yet he does.
That's what's but it's but you're exactly right, Nick, but you're talking about this like a rational person.
Like when you and I talk about politics, when you and I talk about politics, we think about how people are going to be affected.
Right.
These people see it as one thing and one thing only, content.
So I'm going to take it to the next question, which is, who is your ideal next president?
All right, Nick.
I'm going to, this one's a journey as well.
Alex, I think JD Vance, he can keep building the economy to try and get it back to where it needs to be.
Jaden, there's this guy.
He's a streamer.
His name is Papa Gut.
Papa Gut.
Do you know who Papa Gut is?
No, please tell me.
He is an insane streamer, just a big burly guy with a beard, and he's just shocking.
This guy thinks he should be president of the United States of America.
Yeah, this is what Trump has done to us.
George, who's the one who, again, said that he agreed with Nick Quintes and found him hilarious, even though he said all black people should be in prison and anti-Semitic.
I'm going to say JD Vance because I don't really think there's a better option.
That's the guy who represents the bridge.
Next one, Lauren says Victor Marks.
For people who don't know, Victor Marks is an influencer MMA guy who's running for governor and is a QAnon adjacent type guy.
I think there needs to be a lot more compassion in this country.
And that's not for me a party issue.
It's a person issue.
I'll vote for anyone if they show the right humanitarian values.
He just voted for Donald Trump.
How did he make it out of that room alive?
How did he not swallow his tongue?
Yeah.
I don't know.
How he spells his name B-R-I-C-E and not why.
Atticus, Donald Trump, run it back.
FDR did four terms.
Andrew, Steve Bannon.
I like him because he's an economic populist.
He's taken some good stances against the big tech industry and also agree with his foreign policy and his immigration views.
Whoa.
Steve Bannon, Nick.
Do you really think he understands what Steve Bannon's immigration views really are?
That's the next question.
No, do you, Nick?
I'm shocked that you, I'm shocked that these people didn't turn on each other lord of the fly style.
Yeah.
Okay.
Next question.
What is broken in the American economy?
Atticus, healthcare.
We're busting our asses just to pay rent and healthcare that we don't even use.
Okay.
Ashley, I agree with that 100%.
I've got kids.
I can't pay that.
Bryce, I can't pay for insurance.
I haven't had insurance since I quit a job four years ago.
So I don't know what I'm going to do if I have an accident.
I'm just going to be in debt.
Jaden, yeah, I don't have insurance and I've been in hospitalizations.
Ashley, okay, everybody.
In the immortal words of Jurassic Park, hold on to your butts.
This is the Gen Z Republican focus group.
Ashley, I don't think that guy, Luigi Mangioni, went about it the right way, but I can see where his frustrations were.
Nick, what does that tell us that this person who's in on this Gen Z Republican thing would come out and say that Luigi Mangioni might have been ripe for killing a healthcare executive?
What does that tell us about the modern political situation?
It tells you that our healthcare system is so utterly broken that you can justify murder.
You know, it's like, I don't, I'm troubled by that because again, nobody ever should be murdered.
Like if they want to put him in prison, you know, okay, I could probably get behind that if there's a case like where he's, you know, the building, you know, whatever from the but you know, I don't know.
What was the question?
That's 100% right.
By the way, Nick, speaking of Ashley, who just answered that she can see where Luigi Mangioni was coming from in killing a healthcare executive.
All right.
This next question.
Remember, Ashley, Luigi Mangioni might have been right.
Moderator, what do you think of Adolf Hitler?
Ashley, I think he was a great leader, to be honest.
I think what he was going for was terrible, but I think he showed very strong leadership values.
That's the one who just said that Luigi Mangioni had his heart in the right place in murdering a healthcare executive.
Andrew, I'm in favor of a strong executive.
I think we should have a stronger executive branch.
I don't think we should be killing people or doing mass genocide, obviously, but I do think we should have a strong executive.
I feel like one of the biggest problems Trump is running into right now is all these little courts.
They want to throw up little blockages against everything he's trying to do, whether it be his tariffs or deporting people.
So I'm very pro-strong executive, strong leader, strong man.
I support national sovereignty.
And Hitler was a nationalist.
He was like, we have to take Germany back for Germans.
I feel like we should do that in America.
We should take America back for our native, for our native population, Nick.
So I'm not an expert on Hitler by any means, but as far as nationalism is concerned, I'm all that.
And let's check in with Bryce and let's see what he has to say.
Bryce, I myself am actually Jewish ancestrally.
I'm Christian by faith, but Jewish by blood.
I've actually read Mein Kampf, the end conclusions that he came to.
Absolutely abominable.
But I strangely understood where he was coming from as far as wanting to improve the national state of Germany.
How old are these people?
They're Gen Z, my man.
So is that 20s and early 30s?
20, early 30s?
Yeah.
So it's important because that means that they were teenagers when Trump first sweeps into the political debate.
I think that's important.
Yes.
We said, I think, last time that I think that the influence that a president has on the society was probably poo-pooed for a long time and people didn't necessarily realize how influential that can be.
Or maybe it is just Trump either way.
But I'm telling you that this is what's the result of having the impressionable teenagers, you know, the fact that the people who wants a stronger executive after what we've been through and seen is frightening.
This is, and I'm going to share one last group of quotes here.
Nick, what we're looking at right now are people who are marinating in this shit.
They have no idea what they're talking about.
They have no idea what's actually going on.
They've absorbed this stuff.
That's what it is.
They don't even know it.
So this last question, which is, what do you think about Jews?
Which let's see where this goes.
Atticus, they've got Hollywood on lock.
George, don't they own like a ton of the media and like just kind of everything?
Bryce, again, Bryce, no different than black people, Asian people, or any other people here today.
I don't really know why there's a single issue about Jewish people.
Andrew, I would say a force for evil.
I don't see why we support Israel.
I think Israel is a very evil state, the genocide in Gaza, killing all these poor people.
And the only reason we really support them is because they are the biggest donors.
We have APAC and these are all Jewish-run organizations.
The moderator asked a follow-up.
Let me clarify, Andrew.
You think Jewish people are a force for evil?
Andrew, yes, sir.
It doesn't bother me if it's true.
Wait, yes.
Yes, sir.
It doesn't bother me if it's true.
Those slurs, if you're racist or whatever, that just rolls off my back.
This is my country.
My people have been here since the American Revolution.
So I say what I want to.
And I wanted to look at this, Nick.
Man, that is some constructions.
I wanted to talk about this.
These people, whether they have gone out and looked for neo-nazi content or not, it has been so permeated throughout right-wing commentary and ecosystems that it's come in and affected their worldview and given them a crypto-nazi worldview, even though some of them aren't even aware it's happened.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Gaza is a gateway, right?
To it can be if you're not careful.
Yes.
Yeah.
Permission to basically hate Israel.
And then if you're uneducated, that means Jews.
Like it's interesting.
They went right to the Gaza thing versus like, because there's plenty of Jewish people in America.
And it's the same thing as like, are we going to hold every Israeli accountable for what the Netanyahu government is doing?
Are we going to hold all of us accountable for what Trump is doing?
Like there's a lot of similarities in that concept.
But it is frightening that this is sort of a way to allow people to get into there and then, you know, sort of develop anti-Semitism through this.
Now, let me ask you this.
Do you think that Hamas felt like they had a chance to win this conflict when they started it?
I don't know.
I think they thought they needed to do something to change the paradigm.
Militarily.
Didn't think they really had any hope of like winning that.
I don't know.
Sometimes revolutionaries and, you know, sort of those types of groups, they think that they can.
Well, I think we need to redefine what winning means.
If you want to look at it in the sense that winning could increase the amount of anti-Semitism across the world, and particularly in America, by doing something like this, yes, I would say that it was.
It goes back to what we said about Al-Qaeda.
The main point of September 11th was to make America act irrationally and destroy itself.
Exactly.
And what happened with it?
I mean, Nick, you're right, though, that like it has been the opportunity.
Like, I don't think that you can make an argument that Gaza has been okay.
And so to hear people who say, you know, Gaza was wrong and it was morally and ethically bankrupt and condemnable, that's the opening for some of these people, right?
And then they're able to take it into the anti-Semitic route, which is an essential component of right-wing authoritarian ideology.
Then you also take it.
Look, what do they want?
They want a strong man.
They have learned to look at Adolf Hitler like he's a strong executive, which is what happened when Hitler was taking over in the first place.
The anti-Semitism part and just the general worldview, they do not know what's going on.
They do not understand politics, but they've been marinating in this stuff for so long.
It's like making that Christmas dinner or making that holiday dinner where like, you know, it's you've had it and it's absorbed.
It's just absolutely jam-packed with things that it doesn't even understand.
And as a result, it's fully cooked.
We are in a fully cooked political paradigm right now.
Yeah.
And just to put a button on that, it's like, you know, when you're in a situation like Hamas is that they don't have the upper hand in terms of technology and weapons and everything like that, this is what you, this is how you fight that playing field.
And there's no question in my mind that if they could continue to develop this the anti-Semitism about Israel that they go across Jews, that could be an existential crisis for Israel.
Ergo, Israel itself could then cease to exist, which is sort of what their, it wasn't sort of, that's their goal, right?
So, and, and, and all related to how Israel is prosecuted, what they've done.
Like, that's, that's sort of the thing.
It's a playbook that they knew what was going to happen.
So anyway, without having to get too much on that issue, yes, like this is where we're coming from, particularly with the people this age who came up through this and are impressionable for the TikTok stuff.
You know, of course, this is exactly what was going to happen.
And I think I probably said this on October 8th or whatever, after we looked at this.
This was going to happen, just like it did in the reaction to 9-11.
And do we ever kind of write that chip out of 9-11?
Did Obama come in the White House and sort of figure out a way to did anybody go to jail?
What?
Did anybody go to jail?
No, you mean for the 2020s?
Didn't Guantanamo Bay get shut down?
No, no.
Did we increase the drone strikes?
Did we increase the war on terror?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Did we increase the survey?
Did the vibes go up at all?
Did the vibes go up?
We certainly felt better.
Right?
I mean, like, everything was better, right?
All of a sudden, Obama's in charge.
You're not having to deal with George W. Bush anymore.
Meanwhile, it just marinates even further and further.
Yeah.
Until you arrive here.
By the way, issue for another future time, talking about all this and what we've got here.
I think I'm coming around on banning social media for minors.
I think I'm coming around on that needing to happen.
That might be something that we need to look at.
I would even go group chats, perhaps, like get rid of those.
Maybe it'll have to be.
We are just, we are speed running into 2026 and we are getting ready to carry out the Butlerian jihad of Dune.
We're ready to do it, folks.
But that's it.
They're cooked.
Yeah.
You read this and they are cooked.
I'm picturing some sort of like and or version where it's like, you know, it's like black market text chats with groups because like, you know, you can't talk to anybody more than one person at a time, whatever.
Yeah.
Or the black market Twitter.
Like, I don't know.
It's a real problem.
But then that's censorship too.
So, you know, what are we going to do?
Have better ethics classes, have better, what's it called?
What do they used to have back in the day?
Civics.
No, we got to get rid of the machines.
Was there a class called civics?
There was at some point.
We had government.
I know maybe it was called, maybe it was called government or whatever.
And we learned about the government.
Listen, we studied Mein Kampf.
We actually did an experts learn about that stuff too.
Like, you know, it's part of how you run your government and how people come into power.
I don't think that that's happening and people are being talked about.
I'll tell you right now, if this is Gen Z, what are they now?
What are the younger kids?
What are the 12-year-olds called?
What generation?
I don't keep track of the names or Omega, whatever they are.
Think about that.
If you think we're cooked now, Jared.
Well, it doesn't have to be.
And each one of these focus groups, when they talk to normal America, and by the way, you have it too.
I have it.
Everyone listening to this has it.
Like, we are politically engaged.
We do the research.
We read the things.
We actually like study these things.
So we know what we're talking about.
You come across regular people who are just, they're just swimming.
And it's not like they're swimming in an ocean.
They're swimming in an ocean of Coca-Cola.
And they're just getting more and more cooked.
You know what I mean?
Like they are just absolutely marinating in this shit.
And like, it just becomes, it becomes more and more contradictory and nonsensical.
And it's because all of these things, they're emotional appeals.
They're emotional framings versus having logical conversations about what's going on.
How can you support Donald Trump and the Republican Party and say the main problem is healthcare in this country?
Yeah.
How?
Absolutely.
By the way, the other problem you have is the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Sure.
Which is the less you know about a subject, the more you think you're an expert on it.
And that, and that might not even be a Gen Z thing yet, but that's going to be, that's going to creep up.
I think maybe it's an age-related thing as well, where you get to your 30s or whatever you are.
You think, oh, I know some things now, whatever.
And I certainly experienced that on the other side with the basketball stuff.
It's like, you know, you really don't know and you're displaying that you don't know stuff and yet you are insisting that that and it's really tough.
I will let this be my last statement before the new year on this podcast.
Are you ready?
Yeah.
This will be the defining statement going into 2026.
You know what?
The best thing that happened to me was the moment where I realized, oh, I don't know shit.
I'm pretty dumb.
Maybe I should do something about that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Someone who can help me with that.
Yeah.
Maybe, maybe there are books that can help me.
Maybe there are experts that can help me.
Maybe I can admit that I don't know everything.
And when that happened, I started to know things.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was like one of the most blessed moments of my life where I was like, man, I really thought I knew everything for a long time, but it turns out I'm actually dumb as shit.
And I need to do something about that.
The interactions I've had.
And by the way, there is a close alignment with the people who want to come at me like basketball-wise in MAGA.
It's bizarre, but you can see in the profile.
And there are moments when I, when I'm trying to help them understand like a rule, it's like with video evidence and the whole thing where I'm like, how did you ever learn anything?
Like, why do you, you can't accept this?
Like, why are you accepting that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west?
Like, somebody told you that and you decided to believe it.
Like, why is that so much easier to believe than anything I'm trying to tell you with evidence and whatever?
It's, it really, it's mind-boggling, but here we are.
It's, it's, it's, it's, let's hope, let's hope that we can make 2026 a better year than this.
How about that?
It can't be, well, could it be worse?
It could be worse.
It could be worse.
It could be worse, but we're going to make sure it's not.
Yeah.
It will.
It will do better.
All right, everybody.
That's going to do it for this regular episode of My Great Podcast.
We will be back with the weekender on Friday in 2026, the first episode of the new year.
Again, we need your help.
We really need your support.
We are not supported by any corporation.
We do not have ads.
We are editorially independent.
We seriously, seriously need your support.
Head over to patreon.com slash muckrakepodcast.
In the meantime, you can find us over on Blue Sky next at Nick Houseman.