Donald Trump’s Oval Office rant took a darker turn this week, openly flirting with dictatorship while floating executive orders on flag burning, renaming the Department of Defense, and even eyeing a federal troop occupation of Chicago. Co-hosts Jared Yates Sexton and Nick Hauselman break down the disturbing signs of escalation, the “mad king” dynamic now defining Trump’s behavior, and the growing pushback from leaders like Illinois Governor JB Pritzker. Plus: why authoritarianism always comes wrapped in corruption, distraction, and stolen wealth.
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I'm Jamie A. Sexton here with my friend Nick Houseman.
Nick, how are we doing, pal?
I'm doing really, really well.
Although I have an interesting thing, which is we went to the Hollywood Bowl on Saturday to see John Williams retrospective.
Oh.
So John Williams, if you're not familiar, is probably the goat of musical scores for- Right.
It's remarkable how many it's done.
But they did a national anthem when we first started, which I think they do, you know, when they have an orchestra at the Hollywood Bowl.
I got to tell you, people stood, but it was a little bit like in the movie office space when they were singing the happy birthday to Lundberg, the boss, because it was the most depressing national anthem I've ever heard.
It don't hit the same.
No.
It don't hit the same.
And we have to talk about that and why that is, because I regret to inform everybody that things are picking up.
And that is one of the things that we have to talk about today.
A couple of things, a programming note.
First things first, Nick and I, we're taking Labor Day off next week.
So we're not going to have the regular Tuesday episode a week from today.
We will have the weekender after that on Friday.
And again, if you enjoy this show, and I know that you're listening to the previews of.
the Weekender edition of the McRake Podcast, head over to patreon.com slash muckrakepodcast to not only get that full show, but to support this show, to gain access to exclusive events, live shows, reaction shows, and also the community, patreon.com slash muckrakepodcast.
Nick, before we get going with this, is it fair that in this capacity, in this job of ours, that we have had Is that fair?
It is more than fair.
Yeah, I mean, I think you and I probably have absorbed more of this than about 99% of the population, correct?
To the detriment of our health.
To the detriment of our, this is what we do for you.
That's why we ask for your help.
Nick, today on Monday, Trump held a press availability within the Oval Office.
And Nick, before we even get going, would you agree, having spent years?
paying attention to this guy, listening to the bullshit coming out of his mouth and watching the rise of authoritarianism.
Would you agree with me that it feels like this is entering a new cycle, that this is suddenly becoming something that we all knew that it was going to become?
But doesn't it feel like it's shifting a little bit?
Well, here's what's weird and kind of competing with that idea is, is he ramping up the speed with which he wants to take over because he knows he's not going to be around for much longer?
I mean, there's a lot going on because I'll tell you, talked about it um on the weekender on Friday about just how bad this guy looks and exactly what he is starting to say and leak out into the public.
And I saw nothing today, whether it's physical appearance, mental acuity, you name it.
Like it is, it's fallen apart.
Like what we saw, I think over the weekend, you know, he did not wear a tie.
That was wearing a hat, which is just kind of strange, you know, in the Oval Office in front of the TV cameras.
Plus, he wouldn't show the back of his right hand, which we keep seeing has a lot of makeup on it.
But someone did the background.
I'm kind of compelled by this, but some people think that there's a rhythm to when he's putting on all that makeup on the top of his right hand to hide probably bruising from maybe IVs.
And there is a, there is seems to be some sort of a the 20th of the month every month it's happening now so i don't know uh but it's it's concerning on a lot of levels it's like windmill for the gipper uh you know it's gonna be a dictator before he passes i don't know what else to make i don't know anything about these cycles and also like part of the issue here is that what we're talking about is almost how like peasants are taught to view the actions of a king or a monarch in order to look for signs of what's going on that
that is a that is a telltale sign of a totalitarian type society and in this case watching this it's not just how he looks it's not just how he sounds and he looks awful and he sounds terrible, But actually, what is said during this availability is starting to inch up into some sort of an escalation, whether or not it's about like trying to race against mortality, whether or not it's anger, whether or not it's, you know, part of a plan or whatever.
Nick, what we're getting ready to listen to here in just a second.
I, again, I've spent hours.
I've spent years of my life paying attention to this guy.
This for me was one of the more chilling things that I've heard him say.
It will be good to work together.
So I'm thinking about, you know, when I have some slob like Brit Pritzker criticizing us before we even go there.
I made the statement that next should be Chicago because, as you all know, Chicago is a killing field right now.
And they don't acknowledge it.
And they say, we don't need him.
Freedom, freedom.
He's a dictator.
He's a dictator.
A lot of people are saying, maybe we like a dictator.
I don't like a dictator.
I'm not a dictator.
I'm a man with great common sense and a smart person.
And Nick, as we talk about this and as we go through some of the things that were said in this availability, I mean, we've heard him talk about, you know, a dislike for freedom.
We've heard him lust after the type of power that dictators have.
Hearing these words come out of his mouth, like, what did that do to you?
Because it's really something when the president of the United States of America starts talking about how people want a dictatorship.
I mean, even before we get to that part, like the fact that he's calling, you know, the governor of a great state of the United States a slob is it's just beneath the office.
It's just disgustingly slobinly.
It's, you know, and especially if.
you know he can't attack anybody for weight like that's a so that that is already you know a problem and he condescends that he could be a rival and you know although again he can't run again but yet he'ss going to attack all these potential presidential running candidates.
But the fact that he keeps flirting with this keeps confirming what we've been saying since for 10 years.
And however much you want to call it alarmist, it's like, this is what's going on.
You can't tell me that he's not thinking about it and that it's not on his mind.
He obviously hears people kind of accusing him of doing that.
But, you know, the people that follow him are going to take that sentence where he says, I don't want to be a dictator at face value.
Yeah.
And I mean, that's the thing about it.
This is not a person who necessarily has some sort of an internal dialogue.
He is very open about the things that he's thinking about.
And, you know, when he says that, you know, Donald Trump isn't sitting around thinking about whether or not he's a dictator or, you know, people are wanting a dictator.
That's in his circle.
That is straight from people like JD Vance and Stephen Miller and these other ideologues who have been swimming in the Curtis Yarvin cesspool, because that's what people, that's where it's been coming from, this anti-liberal democracy, anti-democracy contingent.
And so when Trump says this, what I take this to tell the rest of us, what I take it as a signal is that not only do they hate liberal democracy just instinctually, but there are discussions that are happening around him about what kind of actions, you know, are open to them, what it is they can get away with, what it is that their supporters will sort of brook.
And like what we're watching and what we're going to talk about in this show.
is all of the hallmarks of this thing starting to kick up another couple of notches.
And the fact that he's even saying these words out loud, I think should tell everybody exactly what we should anticipate, which is more dictatorial actions.
And you look around, if this is a chessboard, the pieces are being put in place.
Right.
And the fact that a lot of these executive orders that he's putting in fly in the face of the Constitution as it is already, and there isn't anybody there to push back on that anymore.
They've got to control the Department of Justice.
And that's what's really concerning.
I mean, even the things they did, you know, there supposedly are still Russian sanctions from when they went into Crimea under Obama.
Do you really think that those are being enforced?
Does anybody really have any idea if that's happening or are Russians just doing business, you know, as much as they like?
We know they, I do believe there were some oligarchs that got some.
compensation from that or got some, you know, relief from that specifically, I wouldn't be surprised if any of that stuff's being prosecuted now.
Oh, no, no, not at all.
I mean, basically anyone in the world who can have some sort of, you know, they can get their beak wet from this administration or be protected.
I mean, that's the entire point of a fascist regime is that you pick winners and losers and the winners are your friends and the people you want to influence and then everyone else is the loser.
And in fact, there's a clip here from today.
in which Trump is talking to the president of South Korea.
And as if the corruption that you're talking about isn't overt enough, here is it being made very obvious and very clear.
And I would like to mention that the only remaining divided nation in the world is the Korean Peninsula.
And I would like to ask for your role in establishing peace on the Korean Peninsula.
So I look forward to your meeting with Chairman Kim Jong-un and construction of a Trump Tower in North Korea and playing golf at that place.
I'm going to start in with a question.
Nick, for those who don't watch this on YouTube, how would you describe the reaction to what was just said?
And in case you couldn't hear it, I mean, it was the President of South Korea not only pushing for peace with North Korea through Trump, but talking about the construction of a Trump tower in North Korea as well as playing golf.
What would you say were the reactions to both the South Korean president and also Donald Trump there?
It's just the shit-eating grin where he's kind of nodding his head with a smile on his face because he already knows, yes, I'm going to benefit financially to no end with some sort of resort.
And by the way, I don't know if there's going to be a lot of tourism to North Korea, even if they do find some sort of peace with them in South Korea.
But he doesn't care because he's going to have a nice big building with his name on it.
Well, you know what I think about Nick?
And part of what we're discussing right now is that not only are we entering probably a more dictatorial period with him, but we've also very firmly sort of jumped straight into a mad king scenario.
We have not only is he not well, but it's very obvious.
And Nick, would you say that Donald Trump, for as much of a failure as a business person as he was, did he at least probably in the past before he entered this period, do you think that when he talked to people and they flattered him and they talked about what they could give him, do you think that he was aware of the transactional nature of what's going on back then?
I mean, I think yes.
The way he's spoken, he, I think.
he does realize I'm getting something.
And he's talked about this as a real estate person all the time.
So, yeah, I think so.
But I think he is also slipping in this period.
And we've documented for years where he'll go out and he'll, you know, whatever he believes in whatever plan he wants to push is whatever somebody just told him or however someone just flattered him.
I do think that this is calcifying.
And you look at him in that room, and I think he understands on some level that he's going to get money or prestige out of it.
But we actually have a president who isn't just self-dealing.
I also think that he is extremely vulnerable to flattery and bribery in a way that is actually getting worse.
Like I actually think if you, okay, so if you were the leader of another country, and we've seen this with Qatar, we've seen this with Putin, we've seen it with everybody, if I were getting you ready to go meet with Donald Trump, the president of the United States of America, you and I would have a conversation about how susceptible he is, correct?
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you worse?
You think it's getting worse with this?
Oh, I think, no, I do.
I think, I think, and again, Nick, I have watched so.
So much of Donald Trump's political life, and I've gone back in time to watch stuff from back before he got into politics in order to try and figure out this analysis.
I think he's slipping away.
And I think that that is only going to make things worse.
I, I, because when I'm looking at threat analysis.
right what i'm looking for is not just like oh what are the signals here how are the pieces being moved i also because we're in a mad king type scenario i have to pay attention to who is the mad king and how is the mad king and where is the mad king's head and i have to tell you like everyone in these rooms it is becoming more and more obvious that this man is becoming meaner.
This man is becoming more vengeful, which is incredible for him.
But he's also becoming, again, more calcified.
He is starting to slip away.
And that puts us in a very precarious position.
All right.
I mean, he could be kind of grasping for things too.
So it's like his aides like Stephen Miller could dangle something by him and he'll grasp at that.
Yes.
Like we're going to see in a second when we're talking about like, you know, burning the flag, for instance.
All these little weird, small things, you know, burning the flag doesn't really happen, for instance, on American soil.
We don't really, I did some research to see like how often are we really seeing this.
But like anytime he gets a chance to then gin up the outrage and the anger and just completely misrepresent what the reality is on the ground in terms of crime and all that stuff, he'll grab, he'll do it.
Like that's almost the other thing, right?
They know a flattery works and they also know that if you can dangle certain things like these kind of ideas, he'll grab onto them and get going right away.
100%.
And by the way, for those who didn't pay attention to this today, he floated signing an executive order that would make burning the flag an immediate one year in prison.
Burning the flag is protected by the first amendment uh nick actually has the the video here lastly sir this is an executive order on flag burning that charges your attorney general will you listen to this flag burning all right he interrupts guy because he has to make sure everyone this is very important he doesn't need to be very important how important it is to him now remember when did we see most flag burnings happen in this country jared in the middle of the 20th century yeah And that was when he probably was last lucid,
perhaps?
Well, no, I mean, he was lucid after that.
But I mean, it is, though.
It goes back to what we talked about, you know, on a previous episode, which is they're just finding things to be mad about.
Who gives a shit about a flag?
It's a piece of fabric.
And again, for people who don't know, the Supreme Court has found that flag burning is protected by, surprise, surprise, the First Amendment.
But this is absolutely a fastball down the middle for a reactionary in the vein of not just Donald Trump, but what's happening within the right-wing authoritarian movement in the country, which is just looking for things to get pissed off about.
But Jared, you can't even just say the Supreme Court has ruled on this.
And then in Scalia was.
Galiya was the swing vote on this case, 5-4 to allow it because it was First Amendment protected.
Notorious progressive and liberal.
Yeah, for sure.
So, you know, that's where we're dealing with here in ridiculousness, aside from the fact.
But let's get into the psyche here because it continues to prove where he fails in terms of thought process.
So here we go.
All over the country, they're burning flags.
All over the world, they burn the American flag.
And as you know, through a very sad court, I guess it was a five to four decision.
They called it freedom of speech, but there's another reason which is perhaps much more important.
It's called death, because what happens when you burn a flag is the area goes crazy.
You have hundreds of people, they go crazy.
You could do other things.
You can burn this piece of paper.
But when you burn the American flag, it incites riots at levels that we've never seen before.
People go crazy in a way, both ways.
There are some that are going crazy for doing it.
There are others that are angry, angry about them doing it.
Do you want to discuss that?
Sure.
What the executive order does it charges your department of justice with investigating instances of flag burning and then where there's evidence of criminal activity that where prosecution wouldn't fall afoul of the first amendment and instructs the department of justice to prosecute those who are engaged in these instances of flag burning so what they're did you follow that by the way like i mean it is just the most labyrinthian you've ever heard Well, basically it's saying, how do we do an end around around the First Amendment?
Yeah.
And what they're going to do is say, you are inciting a riot, which, by the way, is the ultimate irony of all ironies because that's the federal statute that Trump violated when he, on January 6th, and should have disqualified him.
So they want to use that same rule, that same law, because he thinks now there was a flag, American flag that was burned in June of 2025 in LA.
Why are we keeping track of this?
Who gives a shit?
Well, because one of the reasons is because he's saying it's happening all the time everywhere and it's like a riot.
But that's the thing.
If you are in his brain, it is happening all the time.
Like if you were in that corroded, dying organ, like yes, it is happening everywhere all the time.
So, but and the point being is the footage is they have it.
They burn the American flag, squirt a little gasoline on it to make sure it goes.
And they're just standing in a circle staring at it.
And it's almost a solemn affair.
Like maybe they're also equally upset that they're doing this as well.
This isn't the kind of thing that you see when you see we've seen American flags burned in Iran during the revolution there.
This is something wholly different.
And so what we keep seeing them trying to do is gin up the riot so that they can come down upon them with all full force.
And that's the kind of thing they want of the police and National Guard or whatever doing horrible things.
And how much of that do you think that Donald Trump understands?
I think he, you don't think he understands that?
You don't think that in that.
No, I don't.
I literally don't.
I actually think that the scandal about the auto pen, the quote unquote auto pen scandal with Biden, I think that that is actually a projection about what's happening here.
He has no idea what he's signing at any given moment.
Okay.
Interesting.
I mean, I guess I'm going to give him a little bit more credit when it gets to the fascist stuff.
Well, I mean, that's the thing.
The instinct is still running.
Yeah.
Right.
Like that is still happening there.
So here we're trying to put people in prison for burning the American flag.
We also have the idea, Nick, that we should change or, I guess, revert the name of the department.
of Defense to the Department of War, which is another one of those, I don't even know, man.
It's the Gulf of America, but also somehow or another, not as offensive and more offensive all at once.
I mean, this is another thing that just gets floated completely out of nowhere for almost no reason, except for to excite just some of the worst people in the world.
Yeah, I mean, we don't even hear the clip because it's just more insanity from him.
It's more insanity.
But yeah, he doesn't think that it should be called Department of Defense because defense is weak.
Defending, we don't want to be defending, we want to be attacking all the time like that's his whole take on it but again for him what that means is distraction from what they're actually doing and the a the incompetence b the fascistic stuff maybe flip those in order but um that's what we're getting down to and we're seeing this across the world here where places like in israel where a lot of what's going on that they're increasing the war is just a distraction or to keep away from the actual issue of you know the leaders of those of a netanyahu being arrested like that's he's prolonging this for that too and
it's a similar idea here with Trump.
Well, and I think another thing that's happening, and I sort of touched on a little bit about the fascist impulse to take the internal and then to project it outward.
Like at some point or another, and we're getting ready to talk about what it looks like is going to happen in Chicago next, your neck of the woods, like eventually at some point, and actually we got to talk about another thing that's part of this too, eventually at some point internal tensions have to be vented outward.
Things get bad enough in a country, you have to do something elsewhere.
And America, in terms of a declining empire, having an asshole like this and the people behind him, the only way that they're going to, I guess, find some sort of momentum is by going out and stealing other people's shit, which is the fact we misunderstand that about fascism, Nick.
It's not just about oppressing people.
It's not just about controlling reality.
It's also just theft.
Like you've never met worse thieves than fascists who will go into your country and steal everything possible.
So now we're having this symbolic transfer over.
I do not, I don't.
Man, I'm about to say that I don't think it'll become the Department of War, which it was up until 1949, where we were supposed to demobilize, but, you know, surprise, surprise, we didn't.
I don't think it's going to happen, but it is symbolic and another symbol of the fact that like they are, they're probably going to start some wars.
I mean, they probably are going to go after Mexico and they've basically.
declared war on the american people i think it is a signal of where their heads are at right now even worse they it's a they put it in their back pocket.
So when they start to censor, they realize it's going to be a really terrible story that's going to hit them hard.
They're going to like, yeah, let's do something to change the narrative, which they constantly have been doing.
And that's the part of that, you know, diabolical genius of whoever's running this kind of thing, where they can, they, they're able to do it.
And we just follow, you know, like we're a kid with looking at a little bit of fire or something that gets our attention.
Well, speaking of emerging threats, and I already talked about it a little bit, Chicago is supposedly next up on the list of cities that will be occupied by federal troops.
The next phase of this occupation it sounds like possibly up to 1700 federal troops will be deployed to chicago um this is another escalation but in the middle of this and we need to talk about it uh governor of illinois jb pritzker has now pledged to absolutely fight this thing and we need to talk about uh how these battle lines are being drawn Crime is a reality we all face in this country.
Public safety has been among our highest priorities since taking office.
We have hired more police and given them more funding.
We banned assault weapons, ghost guns, bump stocks and high capacity magazines.
We invested historic amounts into community violence intervention programs.
We listened to our local communities, to the people who live and work in the places that are most affected by crime, and asked them what they needed to help make their neighborhoods safer.
Those strategies have been working.
Crime is dropping in Chicago.
Murders are down 32% compared to last year and nearly cut in half since 2021.
Shootings are down 37% since last year and 57% from four years ago.
Robberies are down 34% year over year.
Burglary is down 21%.
Motor vehicle thefts down 26%.
So in case there was any doubt as to the motivation behind Trump's military occupations, take note.
13 of the top 20 cities in homicide rate have Republican governors.
None of these cities is Chicago.
Eight of the top 10 states with the highest homicide rates are led by Republicans.
None of those states is Illinois.
Earlier today in the Oval Office, Donald Trump looked at the assembled cameras and asked for me personally to say, Mr. President, can you do us the honor of protecting our city?
Instead, I say, Mr. President, do not come to Chicago.
You are neither wanted here nor needed here.
Your remarks about this effort over the last several weeks have betrayed a continuing slip in your mental faculties and are not fit for the auspicious office.
So Nick, there are a couple things to talk about here, including what I'm starting to see as a really disturbing pattern that is emerging with these occupying cities.
But I want to start first of all because we just listened to that clip.
JB Pritzker came out today and spoke to the public and I thought was incredibly forceful.
And I think what we're watching, I think, starts to develop.
is I think that in the midst of this escalation that we are going to see a pretty public face-off between Pritzker and Trump.
And I think both of them know it.
Trump might not know a lot of things, but he's already turned an eye towards Pritzker, insulting him and demeaning him and all of that.
I think Pritzker recognizes this.
And I do think that we're going to see a little bit of a showdown between the two of them.
Absolutely.
And the thing is, Trump isn't really allowed to do what they're doing against the wishes of the governors.
And I thought what Pritzker is obviously trying to make a connection to is that this is purely political.
right they don't really care about crime at all um if you live in chicago i mean there are very specific areas that are really uh where the where crime is concentrated right and that's the other issue where it's like we now know it's just math how there are a lot of really, and Governor Pritzker alludes to them, there are some really important programs that will actually do much more toward curtailing crime in communities rather than more police or more stringent law enforcement, right?
That's a key there.
And no one seems to understand that, at least from the federal side.
But again, Trump can declare an emergency.
and send the federal, the National Guard troops in.
And there's a limit, I think, 30 days to how long you can do that.
And then Trump had already said over the weekend, he goes, yeah, but I'll just, you know, pretend it's still an emergency.
I'll just declare another emergency and they'll have to stay longer, you know, because again, you can eliminate murderers for 30 days right they could be marching the streets all of a sudden crime's gone well those troops can't stay there uh permanently and so what's going to happen when they leave and that's the whole issue here that doesn't uh solve anything doesn't doesn't make anything better by sending these troops in the way that they want to so i want to hit on two things from this first things first i've been doing a lot of research on this i've been looking at it
i've i've really been sort of searching my heart and yes i i agree with everybody obviously he's going after democrat-run cities he's you know trying to force some sort of a political battle and all of this nick, I don't think it's a coincidence that he's going after these major urban, well, Trump isn't.
I don't think he knows what he's doing, but the administration is going after, you know, these major urban areas while also starting, we covered this on the show, creating this rapid response deployment program that can get troops into areas where there's unrest.
I think, again, we're starting to see the game board come into clarity.
We're not, we're watching a totalitarian movement right now.
We're watching these pieces start to be put in these different places so that if things start going south economically, which we'll talk about in a minute, or if they start going south in terms of civil unrest, because quite frankly, people are not going to keep putting up with this shit.
We are basically watching the federal and state presence that is preparing to take that on.
Like what will happen if we start having another national movement?
you know, whether or not you want to talk about BLM, you want to talk about, you know, riots of the past or protests of the past, whatever it is, I think they're getting their pieces in place so that if things start falling apart or if they go too far and people get pissed off, they're ready to respond to immediately.
And we keep looking at these troops, we're saying, you know, they don't have anything to do.
They're just standing around.
No, they're there to remind people of state power, but they're also there in preparation in case something does start, you know, hitting off.
I will say, though, on the subject of Pritzker, I think that Pritzker is a fighter.
And everything that I've seen from him shows me that his heart is in the right place.
His principles are in the right place.
This is one of the reasons I prefer him much more over someone like Gavin Newsom, who, by the way, Nick, started calling himself the leader of a new MAGA movement.
I think it was Make America Gavin again.
or something along those lines, selling merch or whatever.
It's a bunch of horse shit.
It's embarrassing.
And now he is actually going into this of a governor who is a bare knuckle brawler.
And I think if that happens, if they do go to Chicago, I think we're going to start seeing this like, And I think that you're going to start finding some altercations that are going to take place.
And I see this thing escalating.
I'm not sure where it's going to go, but I see this thing taking another turn.
And again, I think we're in a new chapter of this.
I'm not sure that's the exact accurate characterization, though, because you're describing citizens getting to the point where they're mad as hell and they can't take it anymore.
We're going to go right where you can also look at this as from an authoritarian standpoint, you need to have the protests to then declare the emergency that allows you to then knock it all down.
And I would argue that what they're doing, particularly with the terrorists, is they're intentionally tanking.
these things to lure people into protesting so that then they can crack.
I couldn't disagree with you more.
I actually think that I think that take is, I think, kind of detrimental.
Like, because if you're saying that, then people should stay away from protesting this regime because that would actually provoke.
Yeah.
Well, I'm also saying it as if just Peter Navarro, he's the only guy that seems to think that like the terrorists, for instance, are somebody that's going to actually work.
They have to be looking at this and realizing that the economy is about to go to shit and that all the prices are going up and it's going to make people really upset, right?
So.
I don't know what else to make of it other than like this is part of the plan.
Well, I will say, and I want to respond to that in a second.
You know, one of the things that we need to talk about today, there's two things that happened in the past week that aren't getting very much attention.
One, Nick, AI is belly flopping and eating shit.
It's absolutely falling apart.
They haven't figured out a way to make money off of this thing.
And on top of that, the only thing they can think about is basically, you know, displacing millions upon millions of workers.
Maybe they're getting ready for that.
I don't know.
But on top of that, a trillion dollars worth of money, of investments in AI technologies got completely wiped out of the market last week.
Now, and this is what I sent to you, Vantage Star, one of the credit report people, they came out and said even the highest credit score people in the country are falling behind on their debt repayments.
This is like a flashing red warning sign.
So yeah, I do think the economy is in real trouble.
And yes, I do think that this is going to snowball and things are going to get worse.
And you said earlier, you said, you know, we understand what can prevent crime.
It's not more law enforcement.
It's not federal troops in a city.
It's actually making sure that, you know, people have their material needs met.
And they're not going to do that.
because fascists aren't going to do that.
So they're going to respond with force.
But when it comes to the idea of these clashes, I hesitate to say that they're laying a trap, even if they're laying a trap like you can't just step away from this fight you know what i mean like you can't you can't just let them control cities and say to people you know what i think this will cool off we don't need to do anything like yeah it's a little bit frightening the idea that we might have to battle the federal government like that's not comfortable i agree with that but i hesitate to say that it's a trap that we should stay away from because
you have to meet this thing head on sometimes you know yeah i mean i think you listen to what i said or what we read to trans people i don't think i said anything about shying away from it at any point right uh i just think that like i'm trying to put my my my head in the space of where they're coming from and that it clearly would be look at the the only way we can kind of get this going is if we can trigger certain emergency powers.
We do that.
We have to get people to then, you know, start protesting and hopefully it gets or maybe create the violence that we need to then crack down.
So, you know, that it's all, it kind of all goes hand in hand.
And we have to decide which one comes first.
And I agree.
What we might end up doing is seeing some sort of showdown between, you know, local law enforcement of Chicago and federal troops, which would be a new one.
I don't think we've barely seen that before, right?
Usually they kind of work together.
So what to find out, like exactly what kind of jurisdiction, you know, Pritzker has and what kind of like, I guess, I don't know if the word's loyalty because it should be to the constitution itself, but there could very well be at some point where the argument will be that what the federal troops are trying to do is completely unconstitutional and you cannot participate with them if they show up and we have to stop that.
I, listen, and I, unfortunately, sometimes when we do this, I give free advice to fascists simply because like they, they make so many mistakes that you have to comment on.
Personally, if I was the aspiring dictator president of the United States of America, I would probably not go pick a fight with JB Pritzker.
That's probably what I wouldn't do because this guy is not going to back down.
Gretchen Whitmer has been an absolute embarrassment.
Gavin Newsom is off doing Gavin Newsom things.
Like there are so many different places that you could go to figure this out.
I do not think that Pritzker is going to back down.
And this is a guy with means.
This is a guy who, I mean, it certainly seems like he relishes a fight.
He's shown up.
He's said the right things.
Nick, it feels like what you just described, these sort of breakdowns of the cooperation and breakdowns of basic civil society.
It feels like this administration, according to plan, is trying to push some of those things or seeing what they can get away with and it feels like as those pieces are being arranged on the board, we're going to start seeing where everything is.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like we're going to start seeing like where loyalties lay or who it is that's going to fight.
And it feels like, and I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.
And if you've been feeling it, like I just, I cannot get over this feeling that I have that this is about to escalate.
and that things are about to really, really start changing very quickly.
They've been changing a lot, but changing very, very quickly.
And we're going to see something, I think, that we've expected, but also it's going to happen in some very unexpected ways.
Have you been getting this feeling as the past few days have been rolling by?
Yeah, I do think that what needs to happen is some sort of very big, very dramatic event to galvanize people.
The problem is that sounds a little bit like people are going to get injured or worse.
And that's extremely scary.
The other thing I've been saying though often recently in these kind of conversations is how easy it is to understand what happened in Nazi Germany in the early 30s.
And what that means is people are sort of not interested in getting involved in violence and not interested in being part of a thing.
And they're hoping that it's just going to smooth out and intelligent heads will prevail.
And then before you know it, they've taken over completely and we have no control, which is basically that path that we're on right now.
So it could go either way.
I mean, the only solace, perhaps, in that sense is that there's a lot more guns in America, where the problem is that people that want to use those guns to send up to a tyrannical government are probably supporting what's going on right now.
Well, I mean, I think a lot of us have guns who are in opposition to tyrannical government.
But at the same time, I think what you just touched on, I'm actually, I wrote an article today.
I'm going to post it tomorrow over at Dispatches from a Collapsing.
state.
You know, I've been reading a lot of accounts of eyewitnesses to the rise of fascism, like in all of these different countries where it took hold.
And you know what they found the most disturbing, Nick?
It wasn't the violence that the dictator and their creeps carried out.
It was the way that some people were in denial about what was happening, how people kept living their normal lives and just sort of pretending like it would just go away at some point.
And I think that feeling that you're talking about not only enables fascism.
I described it in the article.
It's like in order to have fire, you have to have fuel.
You have to have air and you have to have a spark, right?
In this case, it's part of the cycle, which is people who are capitulating and living in denial and all of that.
I feel like there is something coming that a lot of people aren't going to be able to deny anymore.
And the more that they put troops in these cities and the more that they push this issue, the more it feels like that spark is going to happen at some point.
It feels, I don't know, I feel this pressure that is building and something somewhere, there's going to be some kind of a spark.
But don't be surprised if it's forced by the Trump administration.
They create something like we've seen Hitler do that is a false flag operation that looks like it's something like that.
It turns out it's not.
That's the other really, really concerning thing about this.
I mean, you know, I don't know if you want to look past like, you know, the assassination attempt in Pennsylvania, like something like that, you know, those are the kind of things that, you know, X amount of people in the country might believe that that was something that they're using.
you know to manipulate people and you dance around that a little bit i i love how that always ends up coming up in conversation by the way did we talk about it or he had a picture with all the leaders i think i get a huge blow-up book or painting whatever of that moment where he's saying fight on the wall is sullying the white house hall hallway um it's it's uh finally by the way there's a huge banner right now uh department of commerce i think uh right now uh with his face
on it just like you see you know in china or in uh you know uh in iraq when that sadam hussein was in power it's it's what he wants it's what he needs it's he will not settle until he gets it um one last story just an update on things uh in the past couple of days the tale of kilmar abrego garcia who of course was the maryland man who was illegally rounded up sent to the concentration camp in El Salvador has come back since then.
He has been taken into ICE custody.
The administration has announced that they plan to deport him to Uganda.
Garcia, by the way, is a native of El Salvador, not Uganda.
But before we recorded this, right before we did, a federal judge stopped that in order to look at the case and keep him from being deported.
Nick, I. They were wrong to send him to El Salvador.
And at the same time, they cannot stop trying to make this man's life a living hell.
All right.
So let me ask you this.
Was this just a run-in-the-mill case for them?
And they're like, they didn't think about it much.
They figured, oh, no one's going to pay attention.
This will be another one.
We're going to get numbers of deportations.
And perhaps they got caught with their pants.
Now, they didn't realize this is going to be a spark in this situation.
Does that sound fair?
That's fair.
Yeah.
Okay.
Because, you know, they also have insisted they could not get him back.
Yeah.
I think we all remember that, right?
Yeah.
We remember when them and one of their pet dictators there in El Salvador had a good laugh over that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it turns out that was all complete horseshit because they got him back.
The fact that he is back means that the government could have done it at any time while he was being tortured psychologically and physically in El Salvador.
So then he comes back and we kind of sense that they, because they had said this, as soon as he sets back on soil, we'll just reprosecute him and redeport him again, you know, and the right way.
Because remember, they admitted to it a clerical error when they first deported him.
They presented him with a choice, which was accept the charges and we'll send you to where they're going to send him to in South America.
And if he doesn't, if he fights it, they're going to send him to Uganda.
And that's not how our justice system works at all.
And if you're going to put any kind of situation like that is the other, the option he must have is a trial then.
You know, if you're going to accuse him of all these horrible things and then send him to Uganda because of that, you have to find him guilty in a court of law if you do something like that.
So the egg on their face seems to me is what's pushing them to kind of do these extra legal things as well, like threatening him like this.
And, you know, it'll be a good cause celebrant.
will be a chance for lawyers to get on and argue their case in the public forum.
But it is really, really, it's just not, we're in trouble.
Our justice system is not functioning properly.
No, it's not.
I mean, it hasn't functioned properly in a really, really long time.
And even before that, it was not set up to function properly.
The only thing I want to say about this, Nick, you know what I'm thinking about a lot?
I'm thinking about moments that proceed or start a revolution.
Do you know where people end up going most of the time?
Whenever they get pissed off, they end up going to the prisons and robes.
releasing the people who have been unjustly held that's that's what ends up happening they they're symbols of tyrannical regimes they go in and free the people who have been held against their will.
All I can think about is in a United States of America that actually worked and actually resisted this thing, like I'll just say Garcia would not be deported.
That's what I'll say is that if a community got around somebody like this and said, we are not allowing you to take these people.
We're not allowing ICE to come in and snatch people up and take children and handcuffed children and people who are dying of diseases and just babies.
If people stepped in and we've seen that, we've seen people fight, we've seen people protest, there should be no.
way, shape, or form that Kilmar Albrego Garcia, after everything that he's gone through, would be deported.
And that is what I'm looking at here, is the fact that this is repugnant and small and stupid and ugly.
And this shouldn't be happening.
And if we had a healthy society, it wouldn't happen.
I mean, would there be a way, I don't know, I'm just picking here where, you know, you'd have, you know, ICE agents as they pull out of their cars, you know, out of the driveways to go arrest more people or detain more people, their tires are flat on their cars.
Oh, I guarantee, I guarantee you stuff like that has happened, I guarantee you stuff like that is going to happen.
Yeah.
You know, maybe the car suddenly won't work.
This won't start.
that's the kind of environment i think that we are moving into yeah where all of a sudden it's not just protesting against these people like at some point or another it becomes so repugnant that people say enough is enough and we're not doing this anymore there's no way whatsoever that he should be allowed to be deported and we've seen a little bit of that we've seen ice back down uh in the in the face of you know as it well they're cowards first of all yeah Yeah,
the louder it gets and the stuff, but we're also seeing people who are standing peacefully in a sidewalk filming them get arrested, you know, citizens.
And so we're, you're right, we're in this moment.
here where it's going to go one way or the other or both ways at some point across the country.
And that's exactly why they're preparing for this, which again, this, you know, it's a couple different things.
They're not running the country as if they care about polls, as if they care about elections.
And they're also running the country in a way where they're trying to, in my mind, it could be a thing where they're ginning up the outrage on purpose to then clamp down on said outrage that they created in the first place.
Well, I mean, if they want to fuck around and find out, they can fuck around and find out.
I'll just say that.
I mean, if that's what..'s going to happen, then I about said that they're not students of history, but we know that they're not students of history.
And let me just, we have to throw this in here real quickly because John Bolton, his house did it in the same way that Mar-a-Lago was, or not in the same way, but in a way that it's clear retribution.
And so this kind of goes down to like, you know, democratic leadership as well.
And for all these years when they wring their hands thinking they're just going to accuse us of these terrible things, we can't do this because they're going to accuse us.
Well, they're going to accuse you anyway, right?
So Biden dragged his feet and America Arlen didn't do what he needed to do.
They didn't treat Trump like the friend.
the threat that he was, I think they assumed once they got into office in 2020 that, oh, great, he's done.
He's going to have to worry about him anymore.
Instead, they're now completely accused of law fair.
Not only are they being accused of law fair and all that stuff, even though it was far from it because Trump got off.
Now they're getting retribution and it won't stop at Bolton.
It's already, we see shift is under the microscope now too.
And they're going to find other Democratic leaders.
So in all of this desire to like somehow look like they're doing it straight and be, you know, upstanding, whatever, they get completely screwed and taken advantage of.
And all those things are now, you know, coming to roost here and causing all, you know, untold amount of problems.
You couldn't be more right.
And by the way, I never thought I was going to say this sentence out loud.
John Bolton didn't deserve this.
I know.
I hate John fucking Bolton.
He has been an absolute stain on this world.
But yeah, you're exactly right.
Like we understand that this is lawfare retribution, whatever you want to call it, but it's going to keep increasing.
And the question is, where does it lead?
And I feel like, just to put a bow on this episode, I feel like in a couple of weeks or a couple of months, we're going to look back on an episode like this and be like, well, there was.
That is all coming together, all being put together, which is unfortunately our job to document.
I mean, how fucking ridiculous is it that they didn't actually do the law fair, but now are dealing with retribution for it anyway?
I mean, that's where we are.
That's the thing, man.
You can't back down from these people.
Like it's, it's, you just can't.
You can't dilly dally around.
I mean, we're going to look back at everything from Merrick Garland to the Biden administration and the Democratic Party and just be like, hey, you not only made the wrong decision, but you put us in this position.
Period.
All right, everybody.
That's going to do it for this episode of the Muckrake podcast.
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