Biden Might Cause Debt Ceiling To Come Crashing Down
Co-hosts Jared Yates Sexton and Nick Hauselman discuss the lack of negotiating tactics President Joe Biden has in attempting to find a deal with House Republicans. They then discuss the mess that is the Diane Feinstein situation, as she has fallen more ill since her return to the senate and no one is really sure who's in control of her seat. They finish the episode pulling apart the potential Republican candidates for president and it's a vertiable potpourri of picks, if potpourri means "putrid clump of humanity."
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I am a little bit better rested than the last time I was on this show, which is good, right?
That's good.
We got some sleep.
You went out.
You celebrated some people.
You got some fresh air in the lungs.
You're ready to go, are you not?
Yeah, I was up in Denver in Mile High, and so that was a whole other experience, so I feel much better now back at sea level.
I like Denver.
I like Denver a lot.
I like Denver as a city, as an experience outside the fact that I almost died in a snowstorm outside Denver, but I really enjoy the city.
Good times.
Oh, I was in the really nice part of Denver, Cherry Creek maybe it's called.
Yeah, folks live a different way out there, I'll tell you.
They do!
I've been out there, spent a little bit of time, and it is a whole different type of life.
By the way, speaking of living a good life, just a quick little program note.
Next week we will not have a regular Tuesday episode.
We will be celebrating Memorial Day, taking the day off, well-deserved rest, so we will be back on the weekender then next Friday.
But as of right now, Nick, the good news!
The nation is absolutely hurtling toward the financial cliff.
January 1st has been the date set out by Janet Yellen.
And let me tell you something, we are having a lot of fun trying to navigate the completely fictional, bullshit debt ceiling.
As we run towards that cliff, Joe Biden and his administration has been quote-unquote negotiating with Speaker Kevin McCarthy and the House GOP, which by the way, there's no certainty whatsoever that anybody will vote for anything that he pushes forward, and here we are.
The two sides are very far apart.
This weekend, there was a lot of gesturing, a lot of professional wrestling that took place.
We'll get into the specifics, but Nick, how are you feeling about our now inevitable collapse, economic collapse in total?
Is it time to start feasting on the gooey insides?
I have a question.
Are we talking about the debt ceiling or are we talking about the ineffectuality of the Democrats to actually negotiate something in a general sense?
I don't know what we're talking about.
Can you help me figure this out?
I will say this.
So one thing, it's always hard with the Democrats to figure out where incompetence ends and a willing fealty begins.
This has been an absolute mess.
The weekend, for those who haven't been paying attention, The weekend began as Biden was absolutely getting nowhere with McCarthy and the Republicans, because they were pushing all kinds of ludicrous ideas.
And all of a sudden, there started floating some ideas, Nick.
A couple of ways that he might get around the GOP House.
A reminder, the debt ceiling is just money that we've already borrowed, that it's always been a ceremonial vote.
Also, debt is complete garbage.
The state is supposed to take on debt.
And a couple of ideas started coming out.
One was that Biden could invoke the 14th Amendment, which said that nobody can stand in the way of the United States paying its debt, and also the idea that they could mint a trillion dollar coin and go ahead and use that.
These were seen as possible pushbacks against what the GOP was pushing.
Biden then, for whatever reason, Nick, Let it go public and told everybody, I'm not going to do either of those things.
I'm going to negotiate with the GOP.
And what happened immediately, Nick, the GOP pushed even further with what they wanted.
The Democrats threw up their hands.
We have now reached a point in which it appears that there's a gaining momentum for the GOP to get what they want.
But like you said, it is an incompetence, but it's also a willingness of incompetence in order to negotiate.
Well, it's a problem because, you know, you'd almost say, fine, let us default with the, um, we got to talk right now about what the GOP wants, what this bill is, if they want to try and pass and what the spending cuts they want, because in theory, if you were to wrap your head around that, and I'm going to list a couple of things right now, they would lose the next 20 elections, right?
None of the things they want to actually do with the budget would be popular.
But the problem is that if it did default, it leads to a whole lot of cascading issues that we can't afford to do.
We'll have to talk about the 14th Amendment next, but let's just go through a quick potpourri, if you will, of what they— A wonderful smorgasbord of bullshit.
Yes.
So, okay, they want to claw back the COVID money that a lot of it hasn't been spent yet.
Fine.
Okay, whatever.
They also want to target the IRS because, again, they continually want to starve that agency so no one has any, you know, accountability.
And why?
Why do they want to go after the IRS?
Because they want to get rid of any weapons that can go after people of wealth and corporations to make them pay taxes.
Yes.
Yes, and to skip ahead to what we will probably talk about on the weekend, I finished watching the Bernie Madoff documentary on Netflix, and if you want to see exactly why we need more people working for the SEC and the IRS and all these different agencies, that is a great example.
Have you ever noticed, Nick, that whenever deregulation takes place, it just turns out that people don't actually police themselves and they just go on wild spending sprees and also destroy lives?
Like, it's weird how that happens every time.
It is probably the weirdest thing that I've ever heard you say, Jared.
And not only that, but Bernie actually walks into the SEC himself, no lawyers or nothing, and was able to back them down from an investigation for a while.
So to think of it, I mean, it's mind-boggling.
But let's get to another couple things on this list, because again, they want to block the student loan relief that Biden had passed.
Again, a very popular thing that would help people get out of Tripling debt, having gone to college with the hope of getting a high-paying job.
They want to walk back all of the clean energy things that they passed last year, just because, I guess, right?
Remember, the production of clean energy stuff is a huge boon for the economy.
So why they want to cut that, I have no idea.
They want to make work requirements for food stamps.
Again, we are the wealthiest, most successful Civilization, in the history of civilization, and we're still going to be willing to let people just starve.
I, you know, they have to have a minimum number of work hours, which, you know, never seems to work.
You know, that kind of covers at least the big ticket items there.
And again, if this is what their platform they were going to run on is, they would, they should lose most of their elections.
And yet here we are, where they're going to be able to hold these people hostage, all of us hostage for it.
Well, there's a lot going on here.
First things first, they also want to go ahead and freeze spending, but they don't want to cut the military budget, which means that the military will continue to grow and grow and grow, as well as law enforcement.
And what they'll do is they'll go ahead and just keep cutting programs back and forth.
And you know what's weird about the federal budget, Nick, is eventually, if you freeze the spending, but you also continue to grow military spending and law enforcement spending, Eventually, at some point, you have to cut Social Security and Medicare.
At some point, it's a way of doing it without saying it out loud, which we've been predicting for a while was where all this was going to end up.
On top of that, you want to go back to work requirements.
This is something, it's...
This is almost baked into the pie at this point.
Like this thing right here is something that Democrats and a lot of these centrists and moderates who, you know, I don't know about you, but it's like, I can tell when a Saturday is going to be bad when social media is absolutely brimming with moderates.
We're like, there's actually no downside to the Democrats making work requirements.
They're actually going to be able to make the point that they are the party of fiscal responsibility.
No, they won't.
That will never happen.
That is not how any of this works.
And by the way, the moderates and the centrists are pushing for all this stuff.
They're not doing it because they think they're realists.
It's because deep down they actually want this stuff.
They actually want to go ahead and cut these programs and to have these work requirements.
It just so happens they want to hide behind this veneer of realism and moderate.
But in truth, they're just conservatives in like a different clothing.
And what has happened in all of this, the way that this has occurred, and by the way, Nick, can you play this?
This was Biden at the G7 Summit in Japan, in Hiroshima.
This is him now putting on the board the possibility of going ahead with the 14th Amendment.
Jim Tankerson, New York Times.
Mr. President, thank you.
You speak a lot at these summits about the power of democracies to solve big problems.
But I'm curious, in these meetings with world leaders, how are you explaining the possibility that American democracy could cause a global financial crisis if the debt limit is breached next month?
And I'm wondering if you are offering them assurances that whether it's by invoking the 14th Amendment or anything else, You will take whatever steps you need to make sure that doesn't happen.
First of all, it would be a very serious circumstance if we didn't pay our debt for the first time in 230 years.
That'd be a serious problem.
So far, There's been very little discussion, and they all know what's going on, about whether or not we're going to default on it.
Number two.
Number three, I can't guarantee that they wouldn't force a default by doing something outrageous.
I can't guarantee that.
Number four, I'm looking at the 14th Amendment as whether or not we have the authority.
I think we have the authority.
The question is, could it be done and invoked in time that it would not be appealed and, as a consequence, pass the date in question and still the fall of the debt?
That's a question that I think is unresolved.
Real fast, Nick, I want to point out the New York Times reporter saying that democracy was going to do this.
I love that's the way that they're framing all of it, that this is how the process works itself out, as if the Democratic Party didn't hand over the House because they didn't want to run a bunch of progressive candidates and also have just completely punted Ohio and Florida and all these other so-called red states.
But on top of that, Biden here, and this really gets down to the heart of it, The performance that Biden has had in all of this is piss poor.
Did you hear how he put the possibility of the 14th Amendment being a solution and then talked himself out of it at the exact same time?
Like, there is nothing there there, you know what I mean?
Well, he is right in the sense that they could try and block it and then we're stuck in this arbitrary time frame where all of a sudden we would default while the Supreme Court could vary what we're waiting for them to even make a ruling.
So I kind of get that.
But, you know, there's what like what would Trump do, for instance, in this situation?
He would just say, we're going to invoke the 14th Amendment, and they're going to have to sit there and watch us do it.
And that would be part of the negotiation.
And the fact that they're so wishy-washy about this, and it makes it clear they're not going to do it, so there isn't any leverage.
And so they're able to do this.
And again, the bigger picture is, the worse the economy does, the worse everybody does economically between now and next year, the better it is for the Republicans.
So their only hope, this is what happens when a political party is that desperate, right?
They are so desperate that they will sink the economy thinking that, okay, great, it'll be really bad for Biden in 2024.
I don't think it'll help them either, but that's their rationale.
And as a result, we're all going to suffer.
No, I mean, it's a win-win-lose for them is what it is.
I mean, literally, if we are to default, one of the things that would happen is immediately there would be widespread consequences.
We would watch some real dominoes fall in all of this.
But you're exactly right.
Joe Biden would get the lion's share of the responsibility for it because he's the President of the United States of America.
They have that in their back pocket, but also everything that they're pushing and the way this is going to happen.
And Nick, how long have we been saying this now?
It's been like two and a half months, maybe three months, maybe even going back to January, I think, we talked about what was going to happen.
Which is that in order for this status quo to continue, there was going to have to be a tightening of the belt, the budget was going to have to be slashed, and eventually they were going to take away anything even approaching a social safety net.
Like that was going to happen here, here, and here, and here, and the Democrats were going to hem and haw about it, and then inevitably they would say, well guess what?
These are the only cuts that we're going to have.
It's a big victory.
We've said that for months, and now here we are.
Like, immediately after Biden said, I'm not gonna do the 14th Amendment, immediately the Republicans pushed harder to the right with harder cuts and worsening cuts.
Which means, if the Democrats get them back to where they started, the work requirements, the stalled spending, all of that stuff that you read out, like, if the Democrats do that, now it's a quote-unquote win.
You know what I mean?
We got back to where we were.
We got the best deal that we could have.
And meanwhile, what happens to Biden?
The same thing that every Democratic president does going for re-election.
They go to the right!
They cut spending.
They increase spending in law enforcement and the military.
They say, look at me.
I'm not your regular tax-on-spend liberal.
This is how I do stuff.
Like, this has been a professional wrestling match.
And I want to point out, when it comes to how the media is covering it, both sides of it, it's because these moderates, these wealth-class assholes, they want this stuff.
They need this stuff.
They want this to be the solution, which is why it's ultimately going to be the solution.
This was not an actual negotiation.
It was a hostage crisis in which two actors within the hostage crisis were in cahoots.
And they might not even know it.
I don't even know if the Democrats understand intuitively that they're playing the role that they are.
But the role that they play is to say, oh my God, I can't believe this is what you want to do.
I'm so sorry this is what happened.
We wish we could have done better.
And that's how this like theater just continues to play itself out.
I guarantee you if they do avoid a default then they're gonna kick the can for just a couple months.
It'll be some temporary solution where they can extend the debt ceilings for four months or whatever it is.
So don't expect that whatever this thing is when they do come together and get something resolved if they do, which I think that they kind of will, it will only be because it was some pasted together deal that will last a few months only.
Yeah, and by the way, the work requirements, again, that's baked into the pie.
That's done.
Like, everybody wants to look at anybody who's on government assistance, they want to look at them as if they're, you know, welfare kings and queens, and like, that is just, that's a winner all the way around.
That will be one of the things that hits that.
I'm sure they'll say they'll pause spending, who knows if they actually will, but they're going to cut some of this stuff.
By the way, on the subject of the Democratic Party, Nick, we have a weird thing that we have to talk about and I hate that we have to talk about this.
I wish it would have resolved itself already.
We got to go out to the great land of California and we got to talk about the Golden State.
We got to talk.
About your Senator, Dianne Feinstein.
89 years old, left the Senate for two months with shingles, has held up a bunch of votes including judicial appointments, a whole hell of a lot of different things.
It turns out After she reappeared at the Senate looking worse for wear, and by the way, giving out quotes that seemed like she wasn't aware that she had missed any time or had an illness or was away, and being moved around by AIDS left and right, the New York Times is now reporting that Feinstein not only had shingles but a worsening condition with encephalitis, that's easy for you to say, which can lead to memory and language issues.
Now, in DC, there is a growing controversy and murmur that one of the reasons why Feinstein is still in place is because Nancy Pelosi wants to make sure that Adam Schiff will be a frontrunner for the Open Senate seat when Feinstein retires, and is worried that your governor, Gavin Newsom, would replace Feinstein with Barbara Lee.
Of course, this is one of those things that it's a lot of rumors, a lot of DC talk.
We're not really necessarily sure what's happening here, but the fact that this is even a conversation that has begun is, what's the word I'm looking for?
Troubling.
You know, the biggest issue here is that she should simply not be there.
She should not have run.
This whole thing is ridiculous.
And I suppose maybe she had enough faculties when she ran again a couple of years ago.
But this is... And by the way, what I'm advocating for is an old woman who is sick, who shouldn't be working.
She should be convalescing and either trying to get better or, you know, spending her days relaxing and trying to be as safe as possible.
And so it's disgusting to think that, you know, and by the way, this is that it reeks of, you know, some sort of political hit job when you read the article about Pelosi and how her daughter is managing her care is for some sort of Svengali because they're so worried about Adam Schiff not, you know, taking that spot.
It's interesting to me, by the way, because it, in theory, would explain why she won't retire, you know, because there really isn't that many other explanations other than she doesn't know who she is anymore and doesn't know what's going on.
Like, that is, and I don't know whether or not that's true or not, but it doesn't seem to make sense.
She's got family.
I don't understand how someone's not intervening anyway for this.
And then the bottom line is, okay, fine, Barbara Lee takes over.
And does that mean Adam Schiff wouldn't win the general election when it's time again?
I don't know.
I mean, do you think that becoming the incumbent there for a couple of years as an interim gives her such a huge leg up on Adam Schiff?
What do you think?
Well, I just want to echo what you were saying, first of all.
As somebody who has had people in his life who have, you know, suffered with everything from dementia to cognitive difficulties, I hate this.
I hate this.
I hate that here's this person who, I mean, she lost her husband last year, you know, like Richard Bloom died last year.
Now we're in a situation where, you know, she's going up for votes and then having to basically be taken away from reporters who are trying to talk to her and finding out that she says, well, I've never been sick.
I never had to leave or anything like that.
Like this is troubling stuff.
And we've even had like verified reports That she's been having these memory issues, all of that.
She should be with her family.
Really.
Should be with her family.
And I'm not even talking about the political part of this.
Like, this is a person who is being put in a position that is not kind or charitable or supportive, right?
This is not a situation where someone's being put in a position to succeed.
She should be recovering.
You heard what I was sounding like after two days of working like really hard and not getting a lot of sleep.
That is the entire, that's what your whole job is like as a senator for six straight years.
It's exhausting.
Absolutely exhausting.
So that's how I feel about that aspect of it.
I want to point out, and whenever we talk about this, so the idea that Pelosi is sort of pulling the strings here, and that Nancy Pelosi's daughter, Nancy Corrine Prouda, is pulling the strings here.
I don't know if that's true.
Prouda is close to Feinstein, is continually with her, the Pelosi's have been taking care of Feinstein, they're close family friends.
I don't know what's going on there.
I know people in Pelosi's orbit are telling people that they're concerned about this and that they feel all of this.
This also does feel to me like one of those stories that happens when you're trying to explain seemingly inscrutable things when it comes to power, right?
When you are away from power and you don't understand why people are doing what they're doing.
Say, for instance, why the Democrats are negotiating so poorly on the debt ceiling.
Right?
Well, there's got to be this, or there's got to be some sort of a game.
There's some sort of a strategy.
You gotta, like, have faith something's going to happen.
We tell stories.
That tells me that even the idea that this is what's being discussed, it tells me, one, that this Feinstein continued tenure in office is so inscrutable to people and so weird that there has to be a story behind it.
You know what I mean?
There has to be some conspiracy or some sort of an idea.
And it might be true.
I've talked to people who said that they believe it.
I've talked to people who said that they don't believe it.
But on top of that, there's the other issue with it, too, which is that the Democratic Party right now is at war with itself.
Like, one of the things that's happening with the debt ceiling problem is you have a bunch of conservative, moderate Democrats who are pushing for Biden to negotiate for this, and you have the progressives who Biden continually has been saying, sit down.
You know what I mean?
Like, quit.
Let us govern.
Let us do our thing.
The Democratic Party has been fighting with itself for forever, which is why the Barbara Lee aspect of this plays into it, right?
It's the idea that somehow or another that Pelosi and the old guard of the Democratic Party are trying to keep the progressives away from power within the party.
So the story is reflecting that.
And I don't know if it's true.
I don't know if Barbara Lee getting named as Feinstein's replacement would necessarily make her the frontrunner.
Maybe it would.
I don't know.
It would mean that Newsom endorsed her, I suppose.
But I just know that the existence of this story speaks to a larger problem within the party.
Right.
I mean, you know, and not that we would want everybody to be, you know, lockstep in the same, you know, drinking the same water all the time.
It's good to have dissents and arguments and discussions.
But this is the kind of thing that you can't really afford when everything is so razor thin, you know, with this particular thing.
This is not necessarily like, we're going to have different versions of social programs who want to help that benefit.
Certain people might have different shades of gray how they want to argue.
That's not this.
This is just sort of the functionality of it and the fundamentals that don't need to be- - And Feinstein is on the judicial committee.
Like, are you kidding me at this moment with the Supreme Court the way that it is and the attack on the judiciary in general?
You don't need Feinstein on this committee.
You know what I mean?
Like, that is a really, really... That's a committee that is rife with a lot of responsibilities right now.
You can't mess around with that.
You're exactly right.
It's such a razor-thin situation.
Yeah, and I love that they went to the Judiciary Committee, the Republicans on the committee to say, hey, can you help us out here with the votes, get these going?
Of course they're not.
I mean, good for them in a way, because again, this is their mess.
Yeah, it's a, there isn't a 25th Amendment, I don't think, for senators, right?
No, I mean, there's ways to do things, but it can't, it's not going to happen.
Like somewhere, somewhere along the way, like something has to be figured out with this Feinstein situation.
But the larger problem in all of it, I got to tell you, the Democrat and the Republican Party, we're going to talk about the Republican primary here in just a second.
But if I said to you right now, Nick, who is the leader of the Democratic Party outside of Joe Biden?
What do you, who's the future leader of the Democratic Party?
Do you know?
Yeah, that's a really, really, really good question.
And I don't really have that answer, right?
Because you want to say, like, AOC would not be, you know, no.
And, you know, Schiff, you know, like, who are those guys as part of the impeachment process?
You know, it's a good question.
Who do you think?
I don't know.
I mean, I think we're in a very strange place where Both parties, and listen, nobody wants a Joe Biden, Donald Trump election.
Nobody!
And a big chunk of Democrats don't want Joe Biden running for president again, and they don't particularly want Kamala Harris to run for president.
Like, there is such a weird situation right now where it's not obvious where the future is happening, and it's happened in the future.
Like, Barack Obama came out like a, you know, Bolt of lightning out of nowhere.
And suddenly everybody was like, this is Barack Obama's party.
That's where this thing is going.
But, like, most of the time you have a decent idea of at least where some of the contenders are.
And right now with the Democrats, it just doesn't feel like it's there.
This feels like you have two parties that are both wrenching themselves apart.
And when you have something like this Feinstein thing, like, pop up, like, who's speaking to it?
Do you know what I mean?
Like, there's nobody who's coming out.
There's no, like, sort of a figure to come out and say, this is what's what and here's what we're doing.
Like, it just kind of feels like things are happening all willy-nilly and there's not a whole lot of direction there.
I can't believe... I'm going through the list right now of Democratic senators, you know, just to see.
Like, we're forgetting somebody, right?
We have to be, but...
I gotta tell you, you know, nobody, in terms of a national stage who has a kind of, you know, it's like name recognition, right?
Or influence.
Cory Booker, like, you know, maybe?
You know, who else?
It's really, really, it is sad.
If Cory Booker gave a speech, like, okay, so we're recording this on Monday at, you know, like 5, 6 p.m., whatever.
Like, if Cory Booker announced that he was going to give a major speech tonight, would any of the major networks cover it?
I mean, maybe.
They might, you know, they might go see if he said anything important and then maybe broadcast it.
But that's just not... You know, who has the top public name recognition, whatever, would be mentioned.
Well, and by the way, this is something that we have to talk about, Nick.
So, for those who are paying attention to this stuff, and I don't blame you for not doing it, There is a major push right now with, and we've talked about this in a past episode, with the No Labels Party, which is, again, for anybody who isn't keeping track, is absolutely a corporate wolf in sheep's clothing idea.
A bunch of wealthy corporations, a bunch of wealthy donors are creating this like quote unquote grassroots movement to bring apart a bipartisan ticket.
And right at the top of their dream ticket for 2024, and they've already raised millions of dollars because it's all corporate cash and dark cash, right at the top of their ticket is Joe Manchin.
And Joe Manchin has been the top advocate for this no labels idea.
The idea that there's going to be a bipartisan ticket running in 2024 against Biden and whoever ends up for the Republicans.
That's what Manchin is looking at.
By the way, Nick, a couple names on that potential ticket.
Joe Manchin, right at the top of it.
Maryland Governor Larry Hogan.
And my favorite senator and yours from Arizona, Kirsten Sinema.
Great.
We love it.
This is wonderful.
I see no problems with this.
I'm on board.
Sign me up.
Can I knock on doors?
I mean, oh my gosh.
Listen, people will do anything to be on TV, I guess, is what they're saying, right?
I don't know.
I don't know what else to say about that because, yeah, it's I suppose when you hang out with certain people and, you know, maybe have a couple drinks or something, like, this shit gets going, they start talking, they get excited about it, and maybe drinks isn't the right, you know, advice, but something's going on where they get around each other, they get excited.
They do!
And Joe Manchin, I gotta tell you, we covered this for a while, like, Joe Manchin carried himself like he was the de facto president of the United States of America.
He loved it.
Every single issue, whenever there was the 50-50 split, every single issue that came down the pike, he made himself a deciding voter on all of it.
And basically everything that was talked about, you had to go talk to Joe Manchin and he would say, ah, do this, do that.
I mean, he became the leader of the Democratic Party for better or for worse, much, much for worse.
He got a taste of it.
And now there's a ton of corporate goodwill and corporate cash that he earned in that time period in which he gutted Joe Biden's agenda, and now he's being rewarded for it, and his megalomania is being stoked with the idea that he could run an outsider's campaign to win the presidency.
And by the way, this would hurt the Democratic Party way, way worse than it would the Republican Party.
The idea of a Joe Manchin ticket, even if it's with Larry Hogan, that's not bringing any Republicans over.
Uh, no.
It's definitely not.
And I think that what they were seeing in the polling was that, you know, the people who don't want either Biden or Trump will ultimately vote for Biden, I think.
No!
They're not going to move away from him, you know?
They're not going to not vote if it's Biden-Trump.
But if there's a no-labels party, like, some might.
Some might actually go ahead and spoil that.
Yeah, and it sounds shady, too.
It sounds like some of these states are pushing back now, don't want him on the ballot because of that.
So it's not a great start, Bob.
No, it's not great.
It's not great at all.
It looks like they're almost halfway to getting on 50 state ballots.
But because we live in a duopolistic state with two parties, they're going to push back as much as they can.
I don't think that's a great thing.
I think that there should be more openings for third parties.
I think that we would benefit from some challenging of these people, but not a corporate sock puppet party, which is what No Labels is.
And of course, Joe, man, I gotta tell you, real fast, Nick, I want you to imagine we're sitting here, November 2024, you and me, a few hundred of our Muckrake community members, And we're watching the returns for a ticket with Joe Manchin as president and Kirsten Sinema as VP.
Is there anything you could imagine worse than having to think about that and having that in your life?
There's one thing I can think of that's worse.
Right?
I mean, you know, that'd be Trump.
Trump winning.
That's about it.
Yeah, I just don't want to deal with it.
I want it to go away.
I hate this timeline.
I want things to be better.
I just, I don't want this in my life.
Well, that brings us to our next candidate we've got to talk about then, who's a true American hero.
A true American hero, Jared.
I'd make no bones about it.
Chris Christie, if he jumps in, is an American hero.
You want to know why?
Because the only reason why he'd be running would be to take just enough votes away from Trump for him to lose.
There's no other way, no other rationale for what he's doing.
Because he won't get any more than that.
And I'm thinking he's going to humiliate himself one more time just to save us all from that guy.
So I told you, I think it was two, two and a half months ago, when all of a sudden every article started featuring a quote from Chris Christie.
I said, Oh, he's got the itch.
He's getting the itch a little bit.
He's starting to think about it a little bit.
He's starting to flirt with it.
That's right.
He would, you know, shut that, shut that bridge down.
And he, it turns out that Chris Christie was out there getting the support of New York Mets owner and billionaire Steve Cohen, because of course, all these people have to find one billionaire to go ahead and back everything they're doing, because that's the GOP orthodoxy.
Um, he got convinced out there, talking the talk, and also the strategist.
They're just sharks in the water, Nick.
They are just, like, finding every GOP also right.
I'm sure Scott Walker right now is on the phone, and he's like, you really think I can beat Trump?
It's like, oh, Scott, Scott, you got it.
Like, you are a man of destiny.
Mitt Romney's on the phone.
They're like, Mitt, you're the man to save the republic.
He's like, really?
You think so?
Like, this is where these people make their nut.
And Chris Christie has been won over by these people.
And if you read the quotes, Nick, he is saying, I'm going to be the person who's going to brawl with Trump.
I wouldn't be getting in this if I had any doubt that I was going to win this.
And meanwhile, he's not going to win it.
He's not going to go out there.
He might brawl with Trump, but I don't see it making a damn bit of difference.
I mean, all I see is maybe he'll get the 2%.
And remember, it will probably be very razor thin.
I think it'll be closer than it was in 2020, in my mind, if it was Trump-Biden.
And I'll take whatever I can get.
If we can get a million votes away from Trump, or we can get half a million votes away from Trump, great.
But then there goes my whole rant about, he'll spend so much money.
Of which could have been used in infinitely better ways.
Just like, gosh, what was the guy in New York?
Hello.
You know, the former mayor of New York, Bloomberg.
Just like Bloomberg wasted all that money, right?
It's going to be such a shame.
But again, if it saves us from Trump, then I suppose let's do it.
I don't know if it's going to save us from Trump.
I think what will happen I think at some point is that Chris Christie and Trump will have their moment on stage and Trump will absolutely just go after Christie and just deflate him right there on stage.
Also, by the way, we had another person get into the race today from South Carolina, Tim Scott.
Welcome to the GOP Field, Tim Scott.
I hope you enjoy coming in second or third in South Carolina, possibly even fourth.
Just an absolutely terrible opening of this campaign.
There's no reason for him to do this.
He's not going to add anything.
He's not going to pick up any momentum.
It is a really, really weird thing.
But I gotta tell you again, you get enough people in your ear telling you that you are the savior of your party and the savior of the country, you're gonna be willing to pay them millions of dollars.
Uh, that's, that is true.
And again, you know, you have to start somewhere, right?
So if Tim Scott wants to run for president, you know, and you think he can win, you know, 10 years from now or whatever, then you start now and you get demolished, whatever, but you begin that whole process.
But, uh, yeah, I, I, you know, I, listen, it doesn't, I don't think he's ever going to be, you know, the nominee, but from the Republican party for president.
And we're going to look at the field here in a second, but real fast, I want to share this.
This was some fun stuff.
It looks like Ron DeSantis is probably going to jump into the race, maybe in the next week, maybe in the next few days, actually.
And there was a call with his donors.
And I got to tell you, I've been talking with some of the people who keep track of donors and some of the people at the inside scoop when it comes to DeSantis.
And the number one thing that is happening in DeSantis' world, Nick, is they are having to deal with a donor class that is spooked.
Absolutely spooked by his continued terrible performance.
I almost feel like part of our friendship at this point is sending each other videos of DeSantis in public trying to act like a human.
Can I share one?
Because I felt like, you know, we could do that real quick.
Even this audio, you probably still can't understand why it's terrible.
Let me see if I do this and if it comes through here.
This is him appearing at a diner.
How are you doing?
Wow, look at this!
Hi, how are you guys?
Good to see you.
So what do you got?
Go right over here?
Okay, good deal, good deal.
Wow.
Crowded, huh?
How are you doing?
It smells really good, I'll tell you that.
So we'll do it, okay.
What's your name?
I'm Tim Hampton.
Okay.
How are you?
I'm wonderful.
Great to be up in New Hampshire.
Did that come through okay?
Did you get it?
No, I think you can feel the cringe of it.
It's so bad.
And like, it's amazing too.
It was like, I shared this on Twitter.
When he did that big laugh or whatever, it was obvious that some high-priced strategist consultant was like, you know, you gotta get out there and have some fun.
You gotta laugh every now and then.
He's like, okay, check, check, I'll laugh.
And then this, like, it's obvious that they were like, okay, when you go in, make a comment that a human would make about the place.
Maybe about how food smells.
Introduce yourself.
Ask their name.
And he does it!
And he just does them all!
Like, there's no ability whatsoever to have a normal human interaction for Ron DeSantis.
No, I mean, but that was the best part.
He goes, yeah, what's your name?
And he goes, okay.
Like, you know, not even like nice to meet you or hey, cool, whatever.
It's like, yeah, it's so completely robotic.
And off-putting.
There's no way he's gonna be able to do those, do those little, you know, pop-ins to the local eateries and enjoy that food and have that work for him.
Oh, it's disgusting.
No, and these donors are absolutely terrified.
You know, they've been pumping him full of millions of dollars.
And what we're looking at right now is they're starting to hedge their bets.
The way that the donor class is handling it, they're still giving him money, but they're pulling it back.
They're starting to take the money they're not giving him, giving it to someone like a Nikki Haley, or maybe even a Tim Scott, just in the hope that there's some sort of an outside chance.
And then, Nick, who do you think they're giving the rest of it to?
That's right.
Donald J. Trump.
That's exactly how this thing is playing out.
I want to read a couple of quotes from this donor call that DeSantis had.
I think this is telling of where this thing is going.
This is from the call.
Quote, you have basically three people, and this is DeSantis.
You have basically three people at this point that are credible in this whole thing, DeSantis told donors on the call.
Biden, Trump, and me.
And I think of those three, two have a chance to get elected president.
Biden and me, based on all the data in the swing states, which is not great for the former president and probably insurmountable because people aren't going to change their view of him.
Now, before we get to the second quote, Nick, that's pretty damn presumptuous, is it not?
He's right at least, right?
In the swing states and the way Trump is being perceived, that is probably right.
So he's not lying there, but yes.
It's Biden at 50, Trump at 50, whatever, and me at 3, whatever it is, right?
What's he polling at, 20?
Well, and every now and then you will see that stuff, but that's before he even entered the race.
That's before the nation even got an eyeful of him.
You know what I mean?
Like, that literally has nothing to do with what he has been able to accomplish so far.
And I gotta tell you, that's like going ahead and throwing yourself a victory parade before the first game of the season.
Like, he really, truly is.
And then there's this, which I want to read, and then I want to explain a little bit why this is important.
On this same donor call, he says, Mr. DeSantis also talked about the release of his book, The Courage to be Free.
Terrible name, by the way.
He provided his supporters with statistics, saying he had sold 95,000 copies in his first week, compared with 60,000 for Barack Obama's book before he became president, and 80,000 for Hillary Clinton's memoir before she became a candidate in the 2016 cycle.
The volume of sales was, quote, not normal for people in elected office who write books, he said, adding, for us to exceed both of those, I think, is really, really significant.
Nick, guess what?
That's not significant.
At all.
And I'll tell you why.
It's because within the GOP, within conservative circles, people aren't just going out and buying your books.
The corporate donors, the institutes, all those people, they're buying your books.
They're making sure to go ahead and pump money into that economy, and then what do they do?
They hand it out at their conferences.
They just have big giant storerooms.
Why?
Because they are artificially pumping up the numbers of conservative politicians in order to pretend like they are actually players within any of this.
And they're not at all.
This is one of the most delusional things that I've heard a candidate say in a long time, and that's saying something.
Yeah, I mean, but that is what you're supposed to say.
And let's not pretend that the Democrats don't do that either.
They all pump up their sales.
Sure, but not the same.
Not the same.
I think it was Kornacki's podcast about Newt Gingrich.
And his whole career started by pointing that out by the head of the Republican Party, or the Speaker, was doing that in an illegal way with the book selling.
Because remember, it's almost campaign contributions, in a way, if you don't do it properly.
It's insane.
Yes, it is pumping up your numbers and then to tout them as if that's why you should be the nominee for a freaking book is ridiculous and those books will be end up in the trash as well and no one will read them.
So, you know, desperate.
This is a desperate man here.
It's so stupid.
It's one of the dumbest things I've heard in a very long time.
I'm going to read you Real fast, Nick, I'm going to read you the current GOP field.
I'm including a couple of people who haven't put their names out there yet, but are considered to be probably sure things in terms of running.
Here's what I want to challenge you with.
Are you ready?
I want you, as I read through this, I want you to tell me who you think's gonna win the nomination, and with each of them, if they stand a chance whatsoever, and within this list, I want you to tell me, and by the way, Trump is the frontrunner, I want you to tell me today, and we're recording this on Monday, May 22nd, Who do you think is the dark horse in this race?
Who is the person who could gain momentum other than Trump?
All right?
So I'm going to read this list to you, and you have to name a dark horse in all of this.
So you have Donald Trump.
I have to assume right now you believe he's still the frontrunner, correct?
Okay, I do as well.
So I'm going to read the rest of the field.
You have to tell me who is the dark horse who could possibly win it besides Trump from this field.
And by the way, on each of them, your initial reaction, and we'll go back and forth.
Chris Christie, does he stand a chance?
Is he a dark horse in this race?
No chance.
I don't think so either, right?
None at all.
Um, none at all.
I mean, especially because he's done it enough times where, you know, there's just sort of that stink on him already.
He's not gonna suddenly become, you know, out of nowhere or whatever and gain that.
So, no, he's not a dark horse.
I don't either.
Aza Hutchinson.
Eh.
No.
I'd be shocked if Hutchinson gets on a debate stage, wouldn't you?
Oh, no, I wouldn't be shocked if he gets in the debate, if he gets that far.
I mean, he's the old white guy, so that's sort of the look, but no.
Yeah, I agree.
Tim Scott.
Tim Scott will probably be on that stage, right?
I think he'll be on the stage, but he's not the person who's going to take it from Trump, right?
No, you know, I mean, listen, they're not going to become suddenly, you know, tolerant of everybody like, you know, in a way that they would ever like, no.
So we got Ron DeSantis.
I think, I think, yes, I think the reason why he'd be a dark horse is because of Trump would go to jail.
You love our jobs.
Our jobs are fantastic.
I think he has a chance at it if the other guy goes to jail.
What a time.
I think he still has a chance at it too, but I gotta tell you, it would take... The campaign optics and campaign strategy that has been cooked up so far is so piss poor.
I can't even imagine what that montage in the movie would look like.
You know what I mean?
Like the media training he would have to do.
He would have to basically completely change who he was.
Man, I don't know.
It would be better than the Footloose montage of teaching Chris Benn how to dance.
I think it would be a lot like that is what it would be.
Let's hear it for the boy.
Vote for Ron because Don is in the slammer.
I don't know.
Something like that.
Vote for Ron because Don is in the slammer John.
Yeah, he's a John.
I don't know.
Yes, something like that.
Because again, it's like, yeah, I'm not in prison.
Vote for me.
It basically is going to be what he's in the bank.
It's bad.
It's bad.
Nikki Haley.
Well, Could she possibly?
Is Tulsi in this list, by the way?
No, Tulsi's not going to run.
I mean, I guess she's a Democrat, right, in theory.
No, she left the party, but she's not going to run.
All right, so Nikki Haley.
Gosh.
My problem is I don't know if other people react so negatively as I do to her.
I think they do.
I don't think the Republican Party is going to coalesce around Nikki Haley.
I don't see it happening.
So it's not, so it's not unhealthy for me.
It's a very, it's a very common reaction.
Yeah, I think she's pretty detestable.
And I listen, I'm not putting Ravi on here.
Ravi is a complete and utter joke.
We're not talking about him.
I'll tell you, though, this last one here.
Very good publicist.
Amazing publicist.
This is how you, this is how you break out and really get a, get a, get a big brand building.
I'm gonna, I saved the best for last, Nick.
The final guy who I think, you know, I've been thinking about lately, I think he's gonna break through.
I think, I think maybe this is the person who can take it from Trump.
Are you ready?
I now realize who you are talking about, and I cannot believe it, but go ahead.
That is Mike Pence.
And I think Mike Pence is going to run on the Kill Mike Pence platform and catch fire.
See it happening.
If you ran his campaign, he could.
You know what I mean?
Because, yes, there is a way to do it, right?
And we've outlined it.
You've outlined it a lot.
Mike Pence thinks that the problem with America is Mike Pence.
Right.
And that's a problem I can take care of.
Well, if he ever decided to just say, listen, I saved the country from Trump.
I saved our democracy.
I stood up to the other.
That would probably go a long way for him.
He's such a coward.
He won't do it.
But if he ever did that and really just decided to light Trump on fire, he might have a chance to finally, you know, I have that.
I was in the White House.
I ran all the shit because Trump is too busy watching Fox News all day long.
I mean, think about all the ways he could damage Trump and push himself up.
It would be great.
I have to tell you, first of all, if Mike Pence does run for president, the communications are going to be so bad.
It's going to be something like a campaign of conscience.
And it's going to have a font that looks like 1993 is what's going to happen.
And I got to tell you, If Mike Pence tries to run for president and he ends up on a debate stage with Donald Trump, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I enjoy bullying, but that is going to be appointment television.
Like, that is going to be some of the ugliest Like, optics and communication has ever happened.
But I gotta tell you, I'm looking at this field, I feel like we're gonna get at least two or three more names.
Has to happen.
The consultant class needs it bad.
They need some more people on this board.
I see nothing.
I see nothing here outside of Ron DeSantis somehow or another getting a personality transplant, or being replaced by a doppelganger who has taken, like, charm classes.
I don't see who else gets it.
Do you, at this point?
I mean, it's just my chance to click on the Republican, the list of Republican Senators to see, you know, I mean, you didn't mention Teddy.
Ted, Ted says he's out.
Ted says he's out, but I gotta tell you.
Is that true?
Ted Cruz has said that he's not going to run, but listen, if the country needs me and they think that I'm the man to do it, I'll give it a look.
Does that make sense?
Did Hawley?
Hawley has not ruled it out yet.
Tom Cotton has, Hawley has not.
So he's one, for sure, I would imagine.
And then there's somebody else who I was thinking of.
Kyle Rittenhouse.
Right.
Tom Cotton, for sure.
We'll dip his toe, don't you think?
If he gets drafted, if they need me, perhaps I'll think about it.
But I gotta tell you, this field is so thin.
Like, American politics right now is just so thin when it comes to leaders.
I think we have some confident people out there, some exciting people out there, but they have been kept from the spotlight completely.
And this and the Democratic backbench, it is just, it's thin, man.
Real thin.
Yeah, welcome to the United States of America.
Welcome to the United States of America, where Nick is still pushing for machines and artificial intelligence to run things.
Still one of the worst ideas ever.
I did.
I saw it.
It is now going to become a reality.
I want all of the credit.
And if I don't get it, I'm going to be so pissed off that someone else is going to pretend that they came up with that idea.
That's insane.
That's my idea.
Thank you.
I'll tell you what, Nick.
When Skynet creates a nuclear winter and the Terminators start crushing the human resistance, I'll give you a dap at the cap.
How about that?
Alright, thank you.
Just send me back in time.
I'll fix it.
I wouldn't want that job.
All right, everybody.
On that note, we're gonna bring this show in for a landing.
We will be back for The Weekender on Friday.
If you need us before then, you can find Nick at Can You Hear Me?
SMH.
You can find me at J.Y.
Sexton.
Go to patreon.com slash monkrakepodcast and support the show!
