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Aug. 30, 2022 - The Muckrake Political Podcast

57:38

There's A New Biden In Town

Co-hosts Jared Yates Sexton and Nick Hauselman discuss why Republicans are triggered by student debt relief and how President Joe Biden has gotten a new jolt of energy as his poll numbers rise. Support The Muckrake Podcast at http://www.patreon.com/muckrakepodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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	How the heck can Joe Biden call America First conservatives a threat to democracy with a straight face and a dry diaper?
	He's the one who has allowed millions to invade our southern border.
	He's the one who is robbing hard-working Americans to pay for Karen's daughter's degree in lesbian dance theory.
	Hey, everybody.
	Welcome to the McCraig Podcast.
	I'm Jared Yates Sexton.
	I am here with Nick Hausman, as always.
	We have a jam-packed show.
	Some would say an overstuffed show.
	But before we do that, a little bit of housecleaning.
	We are going to celebrate Labor Day next weekend, as all of you laboring people should.
	We are going to take the week off.
	So that's right, you will not have a new episode of the Monk Creek Podcast on Tuesday.
	I'm sorry, I'm sad as well, but go out, you know, hug your loved ones, enjoy nature, get a little bit of R&R in it.
	That's what it's for, so let's do it.
	Let's do it!
	So Nick is going to be out wandering the highways and byways of America.
	I'm gonna go ahead and post something over on the patreon that is patreon.com slash muckrake podcast I'll put something up there and I want to let's pull the curtain back Nick The reason why that's happening is because I don't know how to use the technology to put it on regular feeds.
	Oh Okay.
	Well, that's one day.
	We'll get there.
	Well, I Will we?
	I don't know.
	Maybe we should keep going.
	The one time I tried to post an episode, you remember this, it didn't go well.
	I thought it went fine, my memory.
	Is that not right?
	Okay.
	I had to get a hold of you very, very quickly to fix the situation.
	All right.
	Well, you know, it was so insignificant in my mind, I've already forgotten it.
	Oh, that's wonderful.
	That's what a good friend does.
	Everybody, we have so much to talk about today.
	We've got student debt relief.
	We've got dark Brandon rising.
	We've got the Empire striking back.
	The first thing's first, Nick.
	The Biden administration has wiped out individual debt, student debt.
	$10,000 in student debt for people earning less than $125,000 a year.
	$20,000 for people who got Pell Grants.
	Those are people who have less money, and that is excellent.
	Overall, we're looking at $1.6 trillion total in student debt in America.
	This will take out a chunk of it.
	Listen, I've said all along it should all be wiped out in general, I still stand by that, this is not enough, but right now, this is something.
	It is a victory, is what I'll say.
	I agree.
	And I mean, I think the whole point of getting a loan to go to school was that you can then, you know, be trained or learn and get a good job and then be able to exist, you know, normally in society or actually have a track where you can do better than you were doing before.
	That's what they told me, Nick.
	That's what they told you?
	Good.
	Is that in the fine print?
	I didn't know.
	I believe that they told me that and then crossed their fingers.
	And then put it behind their back and winked.
	I mean it just doesn't make sense.
	In theory, whatever you wanted to borrow to go to college should be like exactly what you have to pay back.
	This shouldn't necessarily be a business where they're going to make all this money off of the interest.
	And that's where it seems to be a really big problem here.
	People are ultimately owing more than the original value of the loan, you know, 15 years later.
	That's insane!
	That should never happen for any kind of loan, much less one that is supposed to be promising a higher education and a better life.
	So it really is frustrating to read, and I'm sure we're going to go through a lot of this, the reaction from the right, which again is just looking to criticize the Democrats for anything they do.
	And this one I don't think is going to have a lot of... What do you think?
	Do you think it's going to have a lot of Get them what they want to get out of this.
	So I'll go ahead and say this.
	And again, on this podcast, we want nuance, do we not, Nick?
	We want to actually get into these things, talk about what they are.
	We got to talk about the actual effect of this.
	And we have to talk about the political repercussions of this.
	I'll go ahead and say this.
	This is an amazing political move.
	It really, truly is.
	I mean, it is delivering on a campaign promise.
	It also, one thing that the Biden administration has been doing lately by passing this stuff is they're rewarding a base.
	And also, they're carrying out programs that are largely popular.
	There are 43 million Student loan borrowers in this country.
	You're exactly right.
	It's insane that our government and an entire constellation and universe of predatory lenders are making money hand over fist on chaining an entire generation of people to debt that is almost impossible to escape, particularly in this exploitative system.
	It's an excellent political move.
	I will go ahead and say, again, just so we're all on the same page, it's not even close to nearly enough.
	Fair enough.
	Now, what's interesting about the right reaction is they keep saying it's not a good political move.
	They are insane themselves to say that this is not popular.
	Right.
	I mean, again, they're out of touch or they're simply looking for any way in any good-sounding bite that would be critical of the administration.
	Can we do some shaky math?
	Yeah.
	Some arithmetic real fast?
	Cocktail napkin math, maybe?
	43 million student loan borrowers in the United States of America.
	I'm not great with numbers, but that's a significant chunk of the country, correct?
	I mean, there's only like 150 million adults, I think, in the country.
	And how many of those 43 million student debt Borrowers have family members.
	I would say all of them.
	How many of them hang out with their family members or even possibly Nick have to live with their family members because they are overburdened by student debt that not only do they have to repay plus interest but also at some point or another they start like actually going after your paycheck.
	How many of those people have to live with their families?
	I mean, I've seen a number of tweets, so I see, you know, there's a few out there.
	So we're literally talking not just about 43 million people.
	You can go ahead and multiply this.
	We're talking probably about roughly half of the country here.
	That not only is burdened by student debt, but also a bunch of people who know someone who is burdened by student debt, who care for someone who is burdened by student debt.
	The Republicans are literally fighting a losing battle, which is what the Democratic Party has to make the Republican Party do.
	The Republicans always force the Democrats to take unpopular opinions and defend things and get on the wrong side of linguistic rhetorical issues.
	In this case, they are just dead to rights on this thing.
	Do you play t-ball?
	I'm going to put one up on a tee for you.
	Ready?
	I did.
	I did play t-ball.
	I don't think I did.
	I don't know.
	I don't remember having any memory of t-ball.
	I was deprived.
	But I'm going to put it up there for you.
	What do you imagine the reaction is from people who are like 60 or 65 who went to college and got loans and didn't get any help and you're seeing them criticize it because Can you give us a little bit of a, fill that in, the context of why they might be a little bit, their experience a little bit different than what's been happening the last like 15, 20 years?
	The reason is because the people who are of that age, and listen, I have to tell you, somebody who literally graduated from graduate school in August of 2008, Nick, I walked out of college with my degree and tens of thousands of dollars of student debt that I worked my ass off to get through school.
	I walked out and I was happy, Nick, and I was like, I'm going to get a house and a car and start my life, and then the economy cratered down.
	The people who are upset about this, because they went to school and they didn't have to accrue this thing, they were not subjected to an intentionally predatory collegiate system that was done on purpose by ... Nick, can you tell me, just looking at records, what political party was it that set up this predatory system?
	The three-lettered one?
	Was there, by any chance, an individual who played a role in this who happened to be a somewhat handsome Hollywood star?
	Oh, the friend of the breakdown.
	Are we talking about Ronnie Reagan here?
	Ronnie Wilson Reagan, everybody!
	Who, by the way, it was a matter of them going after colleges.
	After colleges went from basically research technology institutes, they created weapons of war for not only the Cold War, but also methods to go ahead and manipulate Americans and study Americans.
	I saw that video.
	That was a movie with Al Kilmer.
	I saw that one.
	That's right.
	And listen, it had weird little nuggets of truth in that.
	After all of a sudden colleges moved from being military support institutions and they started having, I don't know, kids who said, I want to be an individual and I think all of this is kind of bullshit.
	They said, guess what?
	We're going to take away a bunch of money from the colleges.
	And what did the colleges do?
	They just went ahead and started raising tuition and making people pay for things.
	And then again in the 1990s, when you have deindustrialization, NAFTA, free trade, everybody looked at this thing and said, we got a goldmine, baby!
	Charge them whatever you want.
	Everybody has to go to college.
	It doesn't matter.
	They'll get jobs, Nick.
	Don't worry about it.
	And eventually, somewhere down the road, we looked up and we have $1.6 trillion in debt.
	Entire generations that have no ability to buy houses, No ability to save money.
	No ability whatsoever to really participate in the American economy in any meaningful way.
	And now we have a party in the Republican Party that looks at this and are obviously going after the benefactors of it.
	Oh that was supposed to be a home run sound.
	Oh well.
	So much for doing that on the fly.
	I was looking for that.
	Anyway, yes.
	Was that a scream?
	It says Home Run Bat Sound.
	Was that someone being attacked?
	God darn it.
	Alright, listen.
	YouTube isn't always as good as what it's cut out to be, but we'll figure that out.
	Although, look.
	There we go.
	Anyway, it's... Ah!
	That was like a high fly and then they didn't realize it was gone.
	Okay there's a lot of information there to want to make sure do we mention the fact that it's like a college cost a tenth of what you know back then and what it does now.
	It really is disingenuous to have anybody, the Tom Nichols is out there on Twitter heartily complaining about this when the cost of going to college was so tiny back then compared to now.
	It's insane.
	Again, the other thing is these companies that are collecting the money, as far as I'm concerned, are not Yeah, and I want to say over the course of my student debt, Nick, I want to say that it has been owned by no less than six or seven separate companies.
	It's almost like if you've ever had a mortgage, the mortgages constantly are getting turned over.
	for the interest.
	Is that fair to say?
	Yeah, and I want to say over the course of my student debt, Nick, I want to say that it has been owned by no less than six or seven separate companies.
	It's almost like if you've ever had a mortgage, the mortgages constantly are getting turned over.
	These are incredible assets.
	And one of the reasons they're incredible assets is you can't declare bankruptcy.
	These things follow you to the grave.
	I will go ahead and say, while we're talking about the good and the bad of this entire program, it is good that some of this debt is getting wiped off.
	Absolutely, $10,000 is going to make a huge difference to some people, and $20,000 is going to make a huge difference to some people, even though it leaves debt behind.
	We are going to go ahead and unpause the student debt payments.
	And a lot of people are going to be in a lot of trouble here pretty soon.
	And by the way, go ahead and put a pin in that because we're going to be talking about why that's happening here very, very soon on this program.
	Wait, can I just add something really quickly?
	Because Marco Rubio Listen, Marco, little Marco Rubio has a fantastic solution for everybody.
	Everybody gather round, listen up.
	This is a one-size-fits-all solution.
	There's no reform.
	Let's start with this.
	I talked about the fact we need to reform student loans.
	I owed over $100,000 in student loans.
	The day I got elected to the Senate, I had over $100,000 still in student loans that I was able to pay off because I wrote a book.
	And from that money, I was able to pay it.
	I'm sorry.
	Just write a book, right?
	Do you write books?
	You can just write a book.
	Listen, everybody, it is an easy three-step plan to pay off your student loans.
	Step one, get elected to the Senate.
	Step two, sell your book.
	Step three, profit.
	Yeah.
	Cha-ching.
	I need that cha-ching sound.
	Also, do you believe that?
	I have to tell you, I don't know if you've noticed this, because this whole conversation Nick, I've had almost a sadomasochistic relationship with the fallout from this announcement.
	On one hand, I'm very, very overjoyed that this is going to help people.
	Anytime the government helps people, I'm excited.
	But second of all, watching people tell on themselves, like everybody on social media and on the networks, there's like, I had $150,000 worth of debt I paid off.
	It's like bullshit.
	Your parents are on your Wikipedia page.
	They're moguls.
	Like, you didn't have that debt.
	Come on.
	Quit lying.
	Yeah.
	Or, I just paid $250 a month for 15 years straight and that was all I had to do.
	It's all you have to do.
	None of that math added up when I kept seeing all those tweets, too.
	Very, very frustrating.
	And again, I think this is the fundamental difference between Democrats and Republicans.
	Democrats kind of think that the government should help people, and the Republicans think that you should help yourself.
	Yeah, exactly.
	And by the way, speaking of telling on yourselves, Nick, we have to talk.
	And there's something in the water right now, something that's circulating in the air.
	People who are saying the quietest part the loudest.
	Let's go ahead and listen.
	I love this.
	Florida Representative Michael Waltz.
	This is fantastic.
	This is just great.
	The military uses educational benefits as a key recruiting tool.
	The military right now is in a recruiting crisis.
	And if young people, 17, 18 year olds say, well, my dad's just going to get a race for free.
	I don't have to go crawl in the mud.
	I don't have to go put my life on the line for the country.
	It's going to take this recruiting crisis actually from again, from bad to worse.
	So not only is it unfair, not only do 60% of Americans, working Americans, not have college degrees, they get no benefits, many members of my family successfully paid off their debt and worked hard and did the right thing, but it's actually going to negatively impact the recruiting for our military as well.
	Real fast, before we dig into that, because that's incredible to stand in front of a camera and know that you're being beamed out to millions of people and thinking that that's just an okay thing to say.
	Real fast, Nick.
	Isn't the Republican Party the party of saying, Life's not fair, Snowflake!
	Get over it, Snowflake!
	Whoever said life's fair, toughen up!
	And all they keep saying is, It's not fair!
	Oh, Biden's a meanie and it's not fair!
	They can't help themselves.
	Oh, damn.
	I have it.
	Here we go.
	So, Nick, here's the thing.
	We all know, if you pay any attention whatsoever, that poverty and debt is absolutely one of the military's biggest recruiting Carrots that they have.
	Which is, they go after poor people, they go after people of color, they go after people who have no advantages because those are some of the only people that they can talk into going out and risking their lives in the infantry and not just in the officer class.
	That has been the story as long as there have been militaries.
	They go out and they find these people.
	And now you have that asshole.
	You have Jim Banks, who's a Hoosier, and I hate saying that.
	Student loan forgiveness undermines one of our military's greatest recruitment tools at a time of dangerously low enlistments.
	Here's a thought.
	Maybe we should have less wars.
	Maybe we should draw back some of our military bases.
	Maybe you assholes who talk all the time about pulling in deficits, maybe you should learn how to balance a checkbook.
	I don't know.
	Maybe life's not fair, assholes.
	You know, I taught in high school for a number of years in a really big public school, and they would bring in this trailer, basically, on wheels to recruit for the army.
	I think it was the army.
	And it was soul-killing, because I have a memory of, like, I think at one point I had to bring the class over there.
	I mean, I know I was in there.
	I know some of my students were, like, sitting there while they were recruiting them, and I was just mortified and just... It was really awful, because they're going to promise them things that are not going to come true.
	And his whole take on that is insane.
	The only way you can go to college is if you potentially risk your life.
	I mean, think about that.
	Why should I have to risk my life and potentially die because some asshole in Congress is going to send me over to some war that we shouldn't be fighting just because I want to go to college?
	They kind of are sticking things together.
	You know, everybody should go to college.
	That's the American dream kind of thing.
	And then everyone should love the country.
	Everyone should defend the country and believe in it.
	They're kind of mixing all these things together in a way that's not freedom.
	That's not how it's supposed to happen.
	I got recruited so hard by the Army and the Navy.
	I took one of those tests.
	Right.
	Because I had no money.
	My family had no idea how to make college work or whatever.
	And I just remember sitting out on the front stoop with this recruiter, Nick, and he's just like, you know, you go in, you get your college paid for.
	He's like, I just don't want to see you get all that debt.
	You know what I mean?
	I just, I think you're a smart cookie and I just want to see the best for you.
	It is ingrained in how this military works to go after poor kids.
	And they're exactly right.
	This is a situation where they know that this is going to hurt their enlistment.
	Another thing that hurts enlistment, Nick, is when people don't believe in their fucking country.
	And when they've watched one unnecessary war after another, they've been exploited.
	And again, this goes back to what we talked about when we were talking about the Roe v. Wade overthrow.
	Maybe if you want people to have families, maybe exploit them less.
	Maybe have programs there so that they can have, you know, instead the Republican Party, it's all stick.
	It's all, you can either be destroyed or you can do what we want.
	There's no carrot there really.
	And it's a constant in everything that they do and in every program that they roll out.
	What's kind of fascinating is that this whole college thing came about with the GI Bill when the GIs came back from World War II, but it was after the fact.
	They'd already served, and by the way, the average age of those soldiers was much older.
	These are not 18-year-olds in the mid-40s.
	These were guys who were 27, 28, coming back, and then certainly not exploited by the GI Bill, did not have predatory loans.
	It's fascinating that you could kind of see the beginning of all this then, and yet it's now flipped back on its head in a capitalistic sort of way to like exploit people now.
	It's crazy.
	You know, it's really interesting to think about the arc of this.
	Really, the GI Bill is a really interesting program.
	You have a bunch of soldiers who come back, and for those who don't know American history, after World War I, you have tons of American soldiers who start having the Great Depression, and you look up and it's like, oh shit, hundreds or thousands of soldiers are marching on Washington, and they want their bonuses, you know?
	They want taken care of.
	The GI Bill was part of this New Deal consensus, but it was also a way of trying to take care of one of the largest standing armies in the history of the world and keeping them happy.
	Then you get to like, Ronnie Wilson, Reagan, and I mean, if you actually look at the conversations that him and his staff were having whenever they pulled the rug out from underneath this, they start talking about quote-unquote selective systems, We don't want an educated proletariat.
	And if anybody's ears just burned a little bit, they're like, where have I heard proletariat?
	That is straight up Marxism.
	They were using the terms that Marxists even use.
	They were literally saying, if we let everybody go to college, Nick, if we keep letting everybody go out and get educated, we capitalists, we exploiters, we're screwed.
	We have to do something to protect ourselves, which is how we've gotten to this point.
	Which brings me to our final point in the student debt conversation.
	This is a racket!
	The reason why the debt should be forgiven is because it was a fraudulent promise.
	This was a reaction.
	All of this was a reaction to deindustrialization, free trade, globalization.
	Don't worry everybody, go to college, get educated, you will be part of the smart Class, the technological elite that is going to rule globalization, everything will be fine.
	And that turned out to be a complete and utter lie.
	But what about all those people that were going to college for seven years and majoring in, I believe Bobert Stern was a lesbian dance class major, something like that.
	What about all those people, right?
	Why should, oh, and by the way, why should people who are paying taxes, who didn't go to college, Why should they pay for their student loans?
	Why should they pay for farmers?
	Why should they pay for corporations to be bailed out whenever they have basically completely destroyed the economy?
	Are you saying no one's complained about those things?
	Nick, life is not fair!
	You are a snowflake!
	I'm sorry, I just got that right wing slut.
	This pisses me off.
	You have the clip with Ted Cruz, right?
	Yep.
	There is a real risk.
	If you are that slacker barista who wasted seven years in college studying completely useless things, now has loans and can't get a job, Joe Biden just gave you 20 grand.
	Like, holy cow, 20 grand!
	That, you know, maybe you weren't going to vote in November and suddenly you just got 20 grand and, you know, if you can, you know, get off the bong for a minute and head down to the voting station or just send in your mail-in ballot that the Democrats have helpfully sent you, it could drive up turnout, particularly among young people.
	Ah, they said it out loud.
	It's incredible.
	And by the way, listen to that sniveling ass, because that's what they literally think about you.
	They think that you're a slacker.
	They think you're a loser.
	By the way, that barista at Starbucks, that's the person who's serving Ted Cruz in the morning.
	That's how they feel about these people.
	They literally look at you, the victims of an exploitative system that they have supported, They literally look at you.
	And do you know what they think, Nick?
	They think you have failed and you deserve to die.
	And by the way, somebody like a Ted Cruz is one of these people who is like, oh, God, it's going to add to the deficit to help these people, these moochers, these takers.
	Nick, do you know how much the Trump tax cut costs to help the richest Americans that absolutely didn't help the economy?
	Do you remember how it was?
	No, it paid for itself.
	Oh, it paid for itself.
	It wasn't a $2.3 trillion boondoggle.
	They don't care.
	They're not principled.
	They literally think that you are lower than scum and they don't care what happens to you.
	And by the way, as somebody who is deeply entrenched in the liberal arts and humanities that are, quote, unquote, useless, These people who take these classes, who think about this, the creative class, they're innovators.
	All of the people out there who are doing the things are supposedly the wealth creators.
	These are people who need people to think outside of the box.
	They're also the same people who create the art that all of these people are investing in in order to make more and more money for themselves and show off to other people and pretend that they have culture.
	Fuck him.
	Fuck them.
	All of these people.
	But to hear Ted Cruz describe it, he's basically been watching Fast Times of Richmond High a little too much.
	That's what he's describing.
	It's insane.
	I couldn't find a good Spicoli clip, unfortunately.
	But by the way, we gotta talk about this.
	Oh there has been.
	Wait I have one other idea I want to throw in there before you get there because I had to talk about the taxes.
	Okay really quickly.
	Sure.
	Okay so I get it everyone that didn't go to college whatever they pay taxes all these years suddenly all that money is now being paid the debt.
	Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it safe to say of the how many million was it like are getting 50 40 million people are going to get this their debt wiped or 10,000?
	43 million.
	So 43 million people.
	They've been paying taxes, haven't they?
	Absolutely they have.
	And what have they been paying for, Nick?
	This!
	Who's to say why isn't their section of the money they've been paying for the last 15 years?
	They're also paying for wars.
	They're also paying to support the wealthiest people in the world who have no interest in paying taxes.
	Isn't that weird?
	Were they not paying taxes?
	It's their money that they're getting back.
	It's very bizarre.
	It's very, very bizarre.
	But we have to talk about there's been a noticeable shift.
	And I want to talk about why this shift has taken place.
	Joe Biden has just absolutely been let loose off of a chain.
	And not only do we have the student debt relief, we've had Biden Over the past couple of weeks, he's come out and said that he's in favor of banning assault weapons, which good for him.
	We've heard him, you know, come out and basically we have here him talking about protecting Social Security, which thank God a Democrat is doing.
	But I'm not joking.
	Think about this.
	Think about what they're doing.
	And all, it's all there in black and white.
	He wants to require Congress to vote on the future of Social Security every five years.
	So, every five years Congress can vote to change, cut, reduce, or entirely eliminate Social Security.
	How's that make you feel?
	Do you want to put your Social Security in the hands of Ted Cruz and Marjorie Taylor Greene?
	I mean it!
	So, I want to point out something about this, because we also later get into the rhetorical part of this.
	Nick, he loves that.
	He loves getting out and talking to people.
	And you notice that something has shifted in him.
	And I want to say that a lot of this is strategy.
	And we're going to break down what the strategy is.
	There's been some movement within the teams.
	We'll talk about that in a second.
	Nick, this is a president, and I don't know how else to say it.
	This is a president who, I think when he's down, he gets depressed.
	I think he has been depressed, and I think he feels good.
	He's got some momentum in his sails.
	And all of a sudden now, he's out there talking to people.
	He's getting folksy.
	This is the Biden that people have seen.
	And by the way, when I was looking at him out in Iowa before the caucuses, he was depressed.
	He was terribly unhappy.
	And whenever somebody like this is depressed and unhappy, Radiates in a room and brings everybody down.
	We've now got a Joe Biden who feels like he's got momentum.
	He's coming out.
	He's talking about Social Security.
	He's talking about assault weapons.
	Nick, he called MAGA semi-fascist, which I have a quibble with that.
	It's technically fascist, but... I respect conservative Republicans.
	I don't respect these MAGA Republicans.
	The MAGA Republicans don't just threaten our personal rights and economic security.
	They're a threat to our very democracy.
	They refuse to accept the will of the people.
	MAGA Republicans don't have a clue about the power of women.
	Trump and the extreme MAGA Republicans have made their choice to go backwards, full of anger, violence, hate, and division.
	But we've chosen a different path.
	Forward!
	I mean, that's different, man.
	That is completely and utterly different.
	Well, his poll numbers are higher than they've ever been.
	In fact, I think at this point of his presidency, he's higher than a lot of the last, you know, over the last several decades, a lot of those presidents as he's, you know, is he getting close to 50?
	Or can we even, is 50 even a table at this point?
	We're smelling, I've seen it 44, 45.
	We're smelling, but also we're in like one of the most divided political periods that you really can look at.
	So, right, so 44-45 now is the equivalent of probably at least 50 like back in the early 80s or whatever that would have been.
	Because, again, that's an interesting discussion would be, you know, are we ever going to see a president who's going to be popular anymore, ever?
	I mean, it would probably take a war at this point.
	Yeah, do you believe in that still?
	Do we still have that bump?
	Yeah, I think, well, actually now that we're talking about it, it would depend on the war, wouldn't it?
	Yeah.
	I mean, we've had enough of those that are unpopular that I wonder if, although, you know, 9-11, we saw it.
	Right.
	But I don't know, man.
	I don't know.
	I got to tell you, I think he's feeling energized.
	I think.
	And by the way, the liberals are like, oh, I don't know if we need to call it fashions because stop it.
	Come on.
	Let's answer the moment.
	But we do have to talk about very, very quickly what has happened here.
	In the past few weeks, not only are we starting to push popular policies, we're actually helping people.
	It turns out that that makes it popular.
	There is also a new communication strategy.
	Nick and I were talking about this a while back whenever things were looking pretty dire.
	The communications team was gone awful.
	I mean, it didn't know what to do.
	It didn't know what to do with him.
	It was just completely going.
	Now we see this new energy that's taking place.
	We have Megan Coyne who just got hired on as the deputy director of platforms.
	They're enjoying a little bit of a victory.
	I'm sorry, listen, I don't believe in the whole Dark Brandon thing.
	Matter of fact, there's a part of me that thinks that that has been manufactured.
	The whole Dark Brandon meme thing has been basically like a shadow campaign of the Democratic Party and their operatives.
	I think that's possible.
	Sure.
	But man, I have enjoyed them like clapping back at people like Marjorie Taylor Greene, who comes out and says that these things aren't fair, and then just absolutely gets just owned.
	But for our government, just to say, you know, OK, well, your debt is completely forgiven.
	Obviously, they have an agenda for that.
	They need votes in November.
	So the timing is a pure coincidence there as well.
	But it's completely unfair.
	And taxpayers all over the country, taxpayers that never took out a student loan, taxpayers that pay their bills and, you know, maybe even never went to college or just hardworking people, they shouldn't have to pay off The great big student loan debt for some college student that piled up massive debt going to some Ivy League school.
	That's not fair.
	First of all, they didn't go to an Ivy League school.
	Second of all, she got bodied by the White House Twitter account.
	Comes out and says, hey Marjorie Taylor Greene, you had $183,000 forgiven in PPP loans.
	$183,000 forgiven in PPP loans.
	Which by the way, what a hypocritical idiot that Marjorie Taylor Greene is And second of all, Nick, I gotta ask, why did we not get in on some of that PPP loans?
	Why did the Muckrake podcast not get in on some of that money?
	I don't, you and I don't, I don't know.
	We don't think like that, I suppose.
	You saw how much Matt Gaetz got forgiven, right?
	No!
	That was a wonderful, by the way, that wasn't just a one tweet from the White House.
	That was a wonderful thread.
	- Oh, they were nuts. - All of the GOP who had gotten loans, he had close to half a million dollars for given debt, for PPP.
	- Yeah.
	- And I'm like, what does he even do?
	What is that business for?
	- Can you use PPP loans to pay off potential accusers?
	like accusers.
	Is that within the realm?
	You know, if you call them employees.
	Allegedly.
	Independent contractors.
	Well, then it turns out he's got like $100,000 worth of shares of a company that's owned by somebody else whose last name is Gates, but probably no relation.
	Oh, that sounds great.
	That doesn't sound problematic at all.
	Right.
	And so, you know, supposedly that money was supposed to go to keep your workers from quitting during the pandemic.
	And then if you did do that, it would be forgiven.
	I think that there needs to be some auditing done because I know I've seen a couple of articles that talked all about how the PPP money wasn't spent properly.
	But you know what?
	Is it even fair to expect the government to Completely and utterly manage their money 100% pristinely, perfectly.
	At this point, probably not.
	It's impossible.
	But all I can tell you is that PPP money did help a lot of people.
	Yeah, it absolutely did.
	But in this case, Nick, there's something different about this.
	This is something that I feel like the Democratic Party just months ago would have just been like, oh, I don't, that is just outside of the lines.
	What happened to Like, you know, it is not something that they would do, but it is obvious after we talked about this communications thing, and everybody knew that a change needed to happen, they looked at the board, they wiped it clean, they said, let's try something.
	And it turns out in this political environment, if you actually address situations, you actually push policies that help people, and you actually call these people out on their bullshit, it turns out people enjoy it.
	Instead of sitting around like you're, I don't know, a depressed member at a wake.
	That's what this administration has been up to this point.
	Well, you know, there's a reason why Jon Stewart was so successful with his show.
	It's basically what, you know, you're describing.
	And then, gosh, the guy who does it now is also really good.
	I don't know if he's got the same ratings, but like...
	There's a reason why people, who is it again?
	Trevor Noah.
	Trevor Noah, thank you.
	There's a reason why those shows, you know, people do gravitate toward those because there is, here's the thing, you don't want to dunk on anybody, but when you can use facts to make a point like that, and we'll see, if his approval ratings go down, he'll get sad again and we won't have, you know, dark Brandon anymore, but if he continues doing what he's doing, I can't see that approval rating going down.
	It would have to continue going up.
	Even if it's a creep, it'll go up.
	By the way, I'm officially anti-Dark Brandon.
	I keep telling everybody this.
	We have to stop turning people into heroes and villains and mythical characters.
	Joe Biden is the President of the United States of America.
	He is subject to material conditions.
	Sometimes he can do things, sometimes he can't.
	This happens to be something that he can do.
	You don't like lasers coming out of his eyes?
	Is that what that is?
	No, I don't.
	I hate it.
	I watched Predator, the original Predator, today, yesterday, and there were all sorts of, it reminded me of that.
	His eyes do the same thing.
	Predator's a great time.
	In less of a great time, Nick.
	We got to talk about the economy, man.
	Hey!
	Okay, it doesn't have to be less of a great time.
	Come on.
	Well, we got to talk about something that's taking place right now.
	This show is about deep politics.
	We got to talk about what's going on in terms of this recession, what's going on with the inflation situation.
	This is a cavalcade.
	of saying the quiet part loud.
	And we're going to talk quickly about a couple of things.
	One is this article that came out.
	I read it this morning, Nick, and I was hungry.
	I'm not a breakfast person.
	I don't know.
	Are you a breakfast person?
	I like my Cheerios.
	Oh, Cheerios are good.
	So that's about all I'll do for breakfast.
	Listen, I'm going to make a... I'm a creature of habit.
	I like my routines.
	I eat a granola bar every morning.
	every morning unless I go out and have a nice breakfast, which I do every couple of months, give or take. - I don't drink coffee. - Man, we gotta get into that at some point.
	But I read this before I ate my granola bar, and it made me lose my appetite.
	This article is in the New York Times by Emma Goldberg.
	It's called The Office's Last Stand.
	This is basically this new situation that we're kind of looking at as we're going into the fall.
	And there's a problem right now.
	It depends on where you're standing.
	I don't think it's a problem.
	But there's a problem right now for the wealth class, and the problem is, Nick, that people don't want to go back to the office.
	They don't want to have to commute to the office.
	They don't want to have to stay there all day.
	Turns out, hanging out at your house and taking care of yourself, it turns out that that is a pretty healthy feeling for some people, and they enjoy it.
	And this article, it again, it says a lot of the quiet part loud.
	But before we begin, Nick, I want to introduce you to a character.
	Are you ready?
	Please.
	I like meeting new people.
	This character is named Colleen McCreery.
	And Colleen McCreery is in charge of quote-unquote people.
	And I know what you're saying at home.
	You're saying, is Colleen McCreery a human resources agent?
	No, no, everybody.
	This is a people administrator.
	Quote, Colleen McCreery recently gave managers at Credit Karma a message that could seem more apt for rising sixth graders than personal finance executives.
	Quote, Back to school is coming, Mr. McCreary, the company's chief people officer recalled telling managers.
	We're getting excited about all of these returning in the fall type activities.
	First of all, Nick, I hope to God that I never in my life have to deal with someone whose official title is chief people officer.
	OK, that sounds kind of, you know, could be friendly.
	Oh, it does sound friendly, doesn't it?
	I have to assume she's friendly.
	Also, while we're at it, as a grown ass man, If somebody was talking about me returning to a workplace where I was being exploited for eight to nine hours a day, if they said to me, back to school is coming, do you know what my response would be?
	It would be an email or a voicemail that said, eat my ass.
	Whoa.
	Okay.
	You do not tell grown ass people back to school is coming as if this is whatever.
	The company has been trying to get employees back to the office regularly for more than a year.
	First, the vaccine rollout gave executives hope that the office would be full again.
	Then there was Wine Down Wednesday in the company's Charlotte, North Carolina location, and Kombucha by the fire pit in the Oakland, California building.
	Now Credit Karma's leaders are relying on a different incentive, Labor Day.
	The latest corporate magical thinking is that September will herald the grand refilling of cubicles around the country.
	Wine Down Wednesday, Nick.
	Kombucha by the fire pit.
	Maybe, I don't know, pay them more.
	Treat them better.
	How about that?
	Yeah, you know, I think I had said this in the very beginning, like maybe two years ago, like what happens if we realize that you don't need all these fancy schmancy offices and all the glass and all the, you know, right?
	What if you could actually do your job competently without having to, you know, have a manager looking over your shoulder going, Yeah.
	Nick, I think you just nailed a couple of things without saying them.
	One, why do we need big fancy offices?
	Because we need people to look around at them and feel like they're important.
	Number two... Number two?
	I'm sorry, I couldn't resist, but we all know what this is, right?
	You've got to get rid of that because I don't want to pay royalties on the birthdays and all.
	We have to honor the office space a little bit here.
	Any time that we can.
	And second of all, Nick, you brought up these administrators and these managers.
	If there's no office, if there's no one around to manage... God, what do they do?
	What do they do, Nick?
	What happens if the managers aren't there?
	What happens to every middle manager in the country?
	They don't have a job.
	Man, that's weird.
	At Credit Karma.
	By the way, what a bullshit company.
	Credit Karma.
	They shouldn't exist.
	This entire credit system that we have is absolute bullshit.
	They shouldn't be around.
	But that's neither here nor there.
	Why do you hate America?
	By the way, that's wonderful to completely tie in America in the credit system.
	That's perfect.
	That's Hamilton right there, man.
	There it is.
	Quote, at Credit Karma, which has more than 1500 employees, company leaders have persistently faced resistance on returning to the office.
	No shit, you probably have a terrible place to work.
	During several full-staff video meetings, lovely, I wish I was in on one of those, Ms.
	McCreary recalled leaders spent nearly all their time fielding questions about remote work, obviously.
	Much of the opposition she heard came from workers who said they were productive at home, found it easier to have a personal life with remote work, and saw some competitors take the leap to permanent flexibility.
	The company terminated two employees for working in locations where the business isn't authorized to operate.
	And this is from McCreary, the Chief People Officer, quote, it's always Google is doing X, Y, Z, or Facebook is doing X, Y, Z, or small startup down the street is doing X, Y, Z. Why can't we?
	We're very clear that this choice we've made.
	And if people want to make another choice, there are lots of opportunities for people from credit card to go work somewhere else.
	Guess what, McCreary?
	I think they're going to take that offer.
	I think so, too.
	It makes no sense because, again, the value of lifestyle.
	Isn't there a whole section of the planet that already realizes this and operates this way over on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean?
	Yes!
	Absolutely!
	And here's the thing.
	Some people want to go to the office.
	Some people love going to the office.
	Some people gain energy from going to the office.
	Some people want to stay home.
	And some people work better when they're at home.
	And guess what?
	That's the way it should work.
	But there's a problem, Nick.
	And here's the problem.
	So much of America's economy absolutely requires this shit.
	And like you said, we have a lot of fancy, shiny office buildings.
	And I want to go ahead and transition, and we're going to talk about what the solution is and all of this here in just a second.
	This was an article that came out with The Intercept.
	Ken Klepenstein and John Schwartz reported on Jordan Kaplan, who is the CEO of Douglas Emmett Incorporated.
	And by the way, for anyone who doesn't know Douglas Emmett Incorporated, because of course you don't.
	It's one of the God knows how many companies in this country that make unbelievable amounts of money that you never hear about, simply because it operates this exploitative system.
	So, this dude, this asshole, Jordan Kaplan, on a call recently, listen to this.
	Quote, the CEO and president of Douglas Emmett Incorporated, a real estate corporation worth over three billion dollars and based in Santa Monica, California.
	Is that good real estate over there, Nick?
	It's a nice place to live.
	It's nice.
	Said on an August 2nd corporate earnings call that a recession could be, quote, good for the commercial real estate business.
	Quote, if it comes with a level of unemployment that puts employers back in the driver's seat and allows them to get all their employees back You mean people don't like change?
	What we're dealing with here that nobody wants to talk about is that power has shifted to the laborer away from the exploiter class.
	And history is littered with one moment after another where something like a pandemic or a crisis happens and suddenly the balance of power has shifted.
	You mean people don't like change?
	People have a problem when things change too quickly?
	Really?
	They don't care for it, especially if they have a lot of money on the line.
	Yes, it's almost like, you know, it's like watching Tucker Carlson every fucking night.
	It's all he complains about is that we can't have change, we can't have it too fast.
	But, you know, it's... What's next?
	Are the plumbers gonna, like, leave little leaks in the pipes so they have to come back and continue to be working?
	Like, that's also an interesting thing, right?
	A lot of those jobs are sort of predicated on things not working.
	- So these people are all, and here's the thing, when they say this stuff out loud, it betrays literally what happens behind the scenes.
	They want, and speaking of Ronald Wilson Reagan, they want to go out and give speeches about prosperity and mourning in America and freedom and opportunity.
	Meanwhile, this entire system absolutely runs on misery.
	Real fast, we had the chair of the Fed, Jay Powell, who again is saying all of the quiet parts out loud.
	And here's the thing, if you think that the Fed isn't on the side of the exploiter class, I don't know what to tell you.
	But here is Jay Powell.
	The labor market is particularly strong, but it is clearly out of balance.
	With demand for workers substantially exceeding the supply of available workers.
	Nick, what happens when more places need workers and there are workers who are in demand?
	What happens to the individual worker?
	You know, wages are supposed to go up.
	Oh, they go up?
	Wait, why would they?
	Oh my god, what a communist.
	Why would the wages go up?
	You know, they have to convince somebody to take that freaking job.
	By the way, it's almost like maybe in the army too.
	Maybe they need to Wait, Nick, are you telling me that just a wind-down Wednesday or maybe going and getting a couple of hot and ready pizzas from Little Caesars, I believe, that's not going to make everything great?
	You know, not in this day and age.
	Maybe like in 1990 it would have, but not now.
	Wow everybody, maybe it's going to take some type of situation.
	Maybe it's going to take some kind of major thing and maybe Jay Powell and the Fed could possibly save the day. - Here I come to save the day. - And listen, that recession that this asshole Jordan Kaplan and all the other exploiters are interested in having, and by the way, If the workers have power, Nick, they might be able to organize.
	And they might be able to demand more money and better conditions.
	Maybe, unless there's a recession and unless the Fed raises interest rates.
	And by the way, they admit that it's going to hurt.
	And people are going to suffer.
	People are going to lose their jobs.
	Their lives are going to fall apart.
	But it's necessary because, as Powell's admitting there, It's a little out of whack.
	It's a little unbalanced and it needs to be the other way around.
	Well, I mean, here's the problem because everyone hates the inflation word.
	The only way, at least in their minds, to reduce inflation is to reduce demand.
	And how do you reduce demand?
	That means people have to have less money to spend, right?
	And then the prices will go down because people aren't buying these things as much.
	Well, that's a little unfair in some respects, right?
	If they're gonna ask the entire country to sort of like, we're gonna have to try and force people to make less and spend less money so that the prices go down.
	But that is capitalism.
	It makes sense to me in a way and I don't know how else you're supposed to do it.
	Well, and that's the thing that sucks is within this system there's only a couple of choices.
	Right.
	Raving, out of his mind, bleeding heart liberal Richard Nixon tried to put caps on prices, right?
	Tried to go ahead and fix the system like that.
	That doesn't work with neoliberalism.
	They've completely changed it around.
	The only option is that some people are going to have to grin and bear it.
	And here's the thing, let's be honest about what this means.
	They say it's going to hurt some people.
	We're talking about families they're going to do without.
	We're talking about people who are going to lose their jobs.
	We're talking about people who are going to lose their homes.
	Nick, we're talking about people who are going to commit suicide.
	We're literally talking about a rise in crime, particularly theft, violence, that types of things.
	We're talking about unbelievable amounts of societal damage.
	When they say hurt or whenever they say raising interest rates, they're acting like it's numbers.
	We're talking about literal human beings who are going to suffer simply because They hate that there are these emerging labor unions.
	They hate that people are telling credit karma, guess what?
	Shove it up your ass.
	I'm leaving this place.
	I'll find somewhere better.
	You can take your kombucha by the fire pit.
	By the way, I don't like kombucha.
	I've only drank it once.
	You know, your kombucha is like my, or no, my kombucha is like your crudité.
	I don't even know what it is.
	We're on a roll, I tell you what.
	Krudite, kombucha, I mean, we're having a great time.
	It's a drink, right?
	It's some sort of drink?
	Yes, it's a drink.
	And it's, I can't do it.
	And it's, ugh.
	So, they literally have a situation where they look at the labor market, and this has happened time and again, Nick, after pandemics, after crises.
	The laborer, the worker, suddenly gains a measure of power.
	This is actually, to go ahead and give people historical context, this is what brought down feudalism.
	Like, eventually, after the Black Death, basically, people said, I can go wherever I want, and I can get a better life for myself.
	And all of a sudden, they were like, oh, we gotta leave feudalism and march straight into capitalism.
	And this whole thing is about trying to preserve or trying to reinforce the old power balance.
	They do not like it.
	when workers and individuals have any freedom or any ability to make choices for themselves.
	This is about getting people back in the offices.
	This is about exploiting them more and making sure that they can't walk away.
	You know, I'm trying to find the clip I can't find in Monty Python's Holy Grail, where he's like, "Why do we have to listen to you?" Who are you?
	And then he goes into the whole proletarian speech about why should we follow a monarchy.
	But yes, exactly, the feudalism is happening again, and it's sort of the fundamentals that Reagan put in place.
	And since that time, we've never seen a bigger disparity between the upper class and the middle and lower class.
	And correct me if I'm wrong, that's on purpose.
	Yeah, absolutely on purpose.
	They clearly would have sensed that was going to happen.
	And, you know, the biggest irony of that is that this Make America Great Again thing, like if you want to choose the 50s, for instance, was when a time when people paid shitloads of taxes and the middle class was really a thriving, robust place.
	Let's ignore all the, you know, racism and everything else.
	But at the very least, there were some fundamentals that existed that seemed to make a lot more sense then.
	And yet they pined for that but refused to change the system to mirror what they had then. - Yeah, it's going back to the Ted Cruz clip.
	It is about making sure that that slacker barista knows their place, right?
	It's the haughtiness of having an education.
	They don't want you to have an education.
	They want you to serve them.
	It's about reinstalling hierarchy.
	And they believe that what has happened, particularly with things like the New Deal and the progress of the 20th century, they think that something got thrown out of whack.
	And as a result, that gap of inequality from the haves and have-nots that you're talking about, it's intentional.
	And it's been intentional from the very beginning.
	And by the way, this isn't just the Republican Party.
	There are plenty of Democrats who look at this system like this, and they're like, oh, what are we going to do?
	Our hands are tied.
	There's nothing that we could possibly do.
	In all of this, it's about preserving the system.
	On one hand, it's about rolling back the rights.
	On the other hand, it is about maintaining it and sustaining it.
	But I have to tell you, again, they are monkeying with this in order to make sure that you are going to go to the office when the quote-unquote, you know, school bell rings.
	And they're going to have you in there and they want you in a situation.
	And this is one of the reasons, Nick, why we don't have a single-payer health care system.
	They want you to work.
	They don't ever want you to question what's going on.
	They want you to say, yes, sir.
	Yes, ma'am.
	Do your work.
	Put your head down.
	When they want you to work extra, you work extra.
	When they pass you over for your pay raise, whenever they go ahead and they, you know, take money away from you, they want you to say, thank you, sir.
	May I have another, period.
	Right.
	They want you to be in so much debt that you have no choice.
	You can't move.
	You can't do anything.
	You simply have to, you know, be beholden to them until you can get out of it, if you ever do.
	Yeah.
	It's fascinating.
	And here's the thing, there probably could be some good arguments for why being in the office is valuable or whatever.
	Sure, sure, absolutely.
	You know, but for me, and I've never really worked in an office, I would never have been able to.
	I just, for some reason, I can't cubicle it.
	I can't handle it.
	But the point being that, like, if you could get your shit done, When you get it, it doesn't matter when or where.
	Just get it done, and if it's competent and good, then that's all that matters.
	It's hard to imagine how threatening that truly is to that managerial class.
	They simply can't handle it.
	And one of the things that you're going to see, if this situation doesn't reverse course, Right.
	And if they can't get people back in the offices and they can't reinforce discipline, they can't turn around the work.
	And by the way, they'll burn this whole economy down trying to do it.
	I mean, that I mean, what Powell is doing, they're playing with dynamite.
	They really, truly are at any given time.
	I mean, recessions can like really, really cartwheel into like really abysmal situations.
	If that doesn't work out, they'll figure another way out.
	Tech will figure out a way to turn surveillance.
	They already have programs right now that can track your eyes to make sure that you're not looking at things on company time.
	They track every keystroke.
	They know where you're going, when you're doing whatever.
	They'll figure that out.
	And eventually the managerial class is going to have to go ahead and take one of the Wright's favorite things.
	They're going to have to learn how to code.
	You know, like it's the managerial class right now is in trouble.
	The real estate class is in trouble.
	And if this recession thing keeps going, they might be able to turn the tide, but they might burn down the store.
	You know, it's like what it's like to save the village.
	We had to burn it down.
	And there's a very real possibility they're going to monkey around with us.
	But there is a rising labor movement in this country, and they are terrified of it.
	Absolutely terrified of it.
	And if you're wondering if the Fed is, you know, in cahoots with the White House, you know, if that were the case, they wouldn't have had this speech now, like 90 days before the elections.
	They would have waited until afterwards and tried to do everything they could to sort of make it okay until they get into the elections.
	But then you can also figure that they could kind of deal with this for the next year or so, whatever, lower interest rates, try and juice the economy just in time for, ding ding ding, the 2024 election.
	And that would be another thing that could actually bode well for Biden if the economy is going well.
	Certainly you'd think that an incumbent president would win again.
	So, it's interesting to watch how that's going to play out.
	I feel pretty good.
	I feel like they're going to be able to get a handle on this.
	And the inflation will be a short-term thing.
	And once they get a handle on that, then they could start getting back to, you know, the prosperity that we had at some point.
	It already went down in July.
	Like, we already saw some smoothing there in July.
	The problem at this point is, you know, it's almost like you go into like a lows.
	And it's like, you can buy the washer for like $500, but if you buy the dryer with the washer, it's not $1,000, it's $900.
	You know what I mean?
	It's like just a little bit of a thing.
	They're taking care of inflation, but they also see the opportunity to like really nip the labor stuff in the bud, right?
	They're trying to go that extra mile to just get as much as they possibly can out of it.
	The question is, will these technocrats, will they be able to do this in such a way that they'll be able to accomplish both things?
	I personally happen to believe that a major labor movement's coming.
	You can't put this back in the bottle.
	I'm sorry, but this system of exploitation has gotten so terrible that eventually at some point it has to bubble over.
	And what form that takes, that's a different question, but it does feel like it's inevitable at this point.
	And what that could very well mean is that the only way you're going to get people to work in an office is by paying them exorbitant amounts of money, and that becomes like a coveted job in a weird way, right?
	You either pay them more, And you give them more perks or you create a situation where people, you either go and work or you're selling pencils on a street corner.
	That's it.
	Yeah.
	Well, we'll see.
	We will see.
	And we will talk more about this and more.
	I mean, my God, Trump is in trouble.
	Who even knows what's going to happen before we record The Weekender.
	Lots of things are going to happen, I guarantee you, between now and Thursday.
	Wow, you're making a muckrake guarantee something's gonna happen.
	I guarantee.
	I guarantee.
	All right, everybody.
	We will be back for The Weekender on Friday.
	If you want access to that, as always, go over to patreon.com slash muckrakepodcast.
	That's where you'll support the show, keep it ad-free, editorially independent, and you can join the conversation in the community.
	My God, people have been killing it in the conversations lately.
	If you need us before The Weekender, all you have to do for Nick is, can you hear me, SMH?
	And me and J.Y.
	Sexton.

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