Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool

Sept. 28, 2021 - The Muckrake Political Podcast

50:08

Pete Dominick On The GOP's Willingness To Default The Gov't

Co-hosts Jared Yates Sexton and Nick Hauselman welcome back Pete Dominick of the Stand Up! with Pete Dominick Podcast to discuss the debt ceiling and whether the Republicans will force a government shutdown to own the libs. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	So you are expecting then to raise the debt ceiling once again?
	Of course.
	We will never have America default.
	But we raised the debt ceiling because America can't default.
	I mean, that would be a disaster.
	Republicans are united in opposition to raising the debt ceiling.
	I do believe it's time to call the Republicans out over this.
	Are you kidding me on the debt ceiling?
	When Donald Trump was president and needed to raise the debt ceiling over and over, Democrats said, yep, we get it.
	Hey, everybody.
	Welcome to the Muckbrake Podcast.
	I'm Jared Yates Sexton, here as always with Nick Halseman.
	But we have a special treat today as joining the cast, going over the thing, being a part of this three-way experiment, which is the way that I like it, is Pete Dominick, the host of Stand Up with Pete Dominick.
	Pete, how we doing, buddy?
	This is my third three-way experiment of the week, boys.
	And so I'm really I'm warmed up and ready to go.
	I'm just saying.
	Wow, if you can lead us through, that would be great.
	A knowing hand.
	You know, I will throw this out there.
	I've forgotten that when you listen to Jared on Pete's pod, it gets a little blue and racy.
	So I'm prepared now.
	I wasn't last time.
	I don't know what you're talking about, Nick.
	I was just working with some kids on some volleyball techniques.
	It was three of us every time.
	I'm not even sure what you're implying.
	But it's great to be back with the Sunshine Boys.
	Well, we're so glad to have Pete.
	He is our most requested guest all the time.
	I think people rejoice every time we make this thing happen.
	Luckily today, we just have a whole pot of sunshine that we have to go through, as always, which is the way we do business.
	We wanted to start with one of the most- A FedEx driver who wouldn't deliver to Biden-Harris homes?
	Is that what you guys wanted to get deep into?
	Is that not a canary in the coal mine?
	I mean, it's it's where society starts to fall apart.
	Am I right?
	I think maybe.
	Yeah.
	But you won't see any of these UPS drivers doing that.
	They just deliver.
	I don't know.
	I guess they're a sponsor.
	I'm doing a live read.
	I actually I interrupt you, but I actually do think that that's not just like I do think that's worth examining, because when when society breaks down to the point where we won't serve each other based on ideology, which is, you know, happening in certain places, I think that's an interesting thing to explore and certainly look at history, including our own, right?
	Well, I think that's one of the things that is sort of telling in all of this, right?
	Like, I mean, every day that you get on social media now, there's some sort of new video of an angry mob storming a school or going into a doctor's office or chasing a public official down the street saying, we know where you live.
	Food courts.
	We're not safe in food courts, even.
	My favorite place in the world.
	Well, I actually I actually love a good food court myself, Nick.
	I'm not going to lie to you, but I do.
	I will say one caveat is everybody has a I always want to temper things with everybody has an HD video camera in their pocket.
	So we're going to kind of see every bad thing that happens.
	And, you know, I think we should give like a certain amount of credit to the virus.
	It's been going on for two years, and we're all losing our minds.
	Like, Norway just ended their lockdowns, and everybody went out, and they just started fighting.
	Like, there's gonna be some important psychological stuff.
	It's a natural division, unlike, I think, authoritarianism and the ending of democracy.
	I do want to give a certain amount of credit to the virus destroying relationships and just interactions.
	I mean, I think that's fair.
	I think the other part of this Is that we're kind of seeing people start to square off in a way that maybe they hadn't in the past.
	You know what I mean?
	Where all of a sudden you're going outside and you're exactly right.
	A lot of people have been cooped up.
	There are all these political divisions.
	Which is what we're going to talk about today, that are brewing and sort of bubbling up like so much oil in the ground, and that pressure is growing and growing and growing, and where do you find an outlet through violence, dysfunction, you know, having to get duct taped down to your seat in an airplane, you know, the normal stuff?
	Yeah, I think that it's a natural outcome of the lifestyles that we've been living, And you know, anytime you're angry, I don't know about you guys.
	I don't know either of you well enough, but like, I like to blame anyone or anything else before I look at myself or before I might even look at the root cause of a thing.
	I mean, especially when it's easy to blame somebody, whether it be in traffic or in a marriage.
	And I think that with the pandemic, we all want to blame somebody for why it's persisted or why we can't go outside or why it's affected our relationships.
	And there's plenty of blame to go around, but it is also a virus.
	It's not like...
	a foreign war.
	It's not like an economic policy.
	And could we solve it simply?
	No, no, it's not simple.
	But, you know, could we come together, hopefully, on something and join the fight against it by getting vaccinated?
	Sure, we could.
	And most of us, most of us actually have, but enough of us have not.
	And it's become a pandemic of the unvaccinated.
	I just the point of wanting to blame somebody for everything is seemingly somewhat a natural human behavior.
	Well, you know, your wife and my wife might need to join the same support group when we talk about blame and spouses, because I certainly recognize that trait.
	I also think that it's, you know, a long time coming of the torque that exists, especially in the right, with a lot of the ideologies they have that don't really agree.
	And it makes them, in the natural sense of frustration, must be inside their brains at all times and then can get set off easier.
	And then they throw in the pandemic.
	It's a perfect storm, it feels like.
	Well, it's the side effect of fear-mongering as a means of political control.
	I mean, there's no way whatsoever that the Republican Party is politically viable unless they create an alternate reality in which the New World Order, the deep state, and the cabal are all coming for you and your family and your guns.
	They have no platform.
	They have no plan for the future.
	The only thing that they have is pure, bright, like, strumming hatred and fear.
	I mean, and eventually that has to find an outlet somewhere.
	Well, it has found an outlet for over 30 years, which you've written and discussed extensively here and everywhere that you guys, you know, uh, post anything.
	And in your book, obviously Jared, and it's the outlet is, is right wing media.
	And so I've, this is one thing that I do know a good bit about just because I've been inside it and because I shared offices with these guys and because I asked them, you know, what their true intentions were and so on.
	And there's been some good research on it, but the bottom line is, as you just said, I'll say it simpler.
	Right-wing talk media is the platform of the Republican Party, and to get ratings and to have success, you've got to find people, especially people, to blame, as I'm talking about earlier.
	And it doesn't matter if they're to blame.
	It doesn't matter if there's just a grain of truth.
	You can find a person or a group of people to blame and something to really scare the hell out of people.
	That's how you get ratings, and it's also how you get elected.
	The left and progressives in the U.S.
	and elsewhere, they don't do that as well because they can't.
	I don't like the comparison between the right and left-wing media.
	They cannot compare.
	We can't be like them.
	It wouldn't work.
	It would not work.
	It wouldn't be successful to use their tactics.
	But it does work for them and it'll continue to work to sell advertising, to sell, you know, to get viewers and subscriptions to just find people to blame.
	It's so easy.
	This this, you know, replacement theory stuff, they're importing immigrants to get votes.
	It's it's so ridiculous and it's so old and it's so not happening.
	But it's really they make they're making people believe the replacement theory, which is now, again, like part of their platform.
	is replacement theory.
	It's, I can't believe we're here, but we are.
	I think we have to say we are.
	Well, what's interesting about that comparison, you're talking about the media and how the left and the right media, or however you want to characterize that, is covering this.
	It's the same with the Democrats and the Republicans, as if the Democrats should be using the exact same tactics the Republicans are, and that would actually get things done.
	Without question, we are in that situation right now, where the Democrats worked with the Republicans on the debt ceiling, for instance.
	I don't think so.
	I think some of them might think that.
	Let me ask you this, Pete.
	Do you believe that they worked in a bipartisan manner to raise the debt ceiling back when Trump was in power because they knew this day was going to come again now and they figured, oh yeah, the Republicans will work with us because we work with them?
	I mean, is that really what was the motivation at the time?
	I don't think so.
	I think some of them might think that.
	And I think we have to be careful that we don't assume that all Democrats agreed on strategy.
	And I think that leadership is more likely to stick to tradition out of respect for the institution.
	They're institutionalists.
	And the younger folks are more insurgents and say, listen, we've seen this a million times.
	We've been watching you do this over and over.
	It's for whatever good intentions you have.
	It's not a great idea.
	So I think that prescribing, you know, intentions, we have to be careful in terms of saying that it wasn't everybody.
	But, you know, when Steny Hoyer is influential, and a congressman from South Carolina, whose name I'm forgetting, black guy, who made Biden, who's been there forever, the whip, majority whip.
	Clyburn.
	Clyburn, thank you.
	And then, you know, Pelosi to some extent.
	I mean, they're all smart, too, though.
	I mean, they, I think, get a lot of blame, but I think they should get certain credit, too, for being operators.
	But on this debt limit thing.
	Now we don't need to discuss it anymore.
	I think we can talk about what they did in the past, and they worked together with Republicans for the reasons I stated and more, but now it's time to stop the nonsense with the debt ceiling.
	We cannot afford to shut down the government.
	Yeah, and to talk about that, people might not know this because this is one of the weird nuances of American government.
	It really is enough to make your brain meltdown when you start thinking about what the debt ceiling is.
	It has been forwarded by right-wing media as if this is somehow or another accruing new debt.
	It's the idea that the government is voting to give itself the ability to gain new debt when in fact raising the debt ceiling is agreeing to pay the debts that you have already accrued.
	It used to be this automatic procedure.
	And at this point, Nick and I were laughing about this before we got on here.
	Mitch McConnell, who by the way is just an absolute Hall of Fame political villain.
	First ballot, goes in, it's not even a question at this point.
	Yeah, I wonder who he'd be up against for his generation.
	I would nominate Abbott from Texas and DeSantis, but...
	That's one of those things is he actually sort of straddles that generation with like a Newt Gingrich.
	So, I mean, it's it's he sort of he's the kind of guy who, you know, hit home runs against Babe Ruth and then like came up against like the Consolidated League.
	McConnell, who came out and what I love is he is pushing the Republican Party, of course, to vote against raising the debt ceiling so they don't have this vote against them.
	He came out and this is an all time chef's kiss quote that he that he said.
	My advice to this Democratic government, the President, the House, and Senate, don't play Russian roulette with our economy, McConnell said Wednesday.
	Step up and raise the debt ceiling and cover all that you've been engaged in all year long.
	Just an all-time strolling.
	Just incredible.
	I mean, listen, it's the debt ceiling.
	It's much simpler than that.
	It really is.
	The debt ceiling is just a play for Republicans when they're out of power to point to the debt And to talk about debt, because it's a very simple thing for any person to understand debt, you got to pay your bills.
	But I think another really important point is just standard economics.
	If you shut down the government, you're going to lose hundreds of millions of dollars a day.
	and lost revenue and lost activity and it's going to set everything you're going to create more debt if your concern is the debt shutting down the government will create more debt but they don't include that part of it and no one hears that part of it but it's really simple it's just a play for them to talk about the debt and as a ratio to gdp and you wouldn't spend you wouldn't spend money that you didn't have and the government shouldn't and money they didn't have, and it's just a way to demonize the government.
	But it's not about economics or debt, and it never has been.
	You know, it'd be kind of fitting if they would have said that to Donald Trump, who raised the national debt higher than anybody had ever done, I believe to the tune of $7 trillion.
	Well, the issue I always want to talk about is just economic policy and just the idea that your government programs are going to be paid for or not.
	And what is a government program that is, you know, a good bang for the buck and what is not?
	Democrats just last week proposed a 10 percent cut in defense.
	Well, what the military does do really effectively, and what military defense contractors do, is they create millions of American jobs.
	And it's just ridiculous amount of waste unless you count military bases, which you should.
	And defense.
	But wait, we have an incredibly effective military that did everything that was asked of it over the past 20.
	Well, what the military does do really effectively and what military defense contractors contractors do is they create millions of American jobs.
	And, you know, it's hard to shift that the budget away from militarism and towards education and health care and long held progressive principles that, of course, are way better for your economics.
	And so, and more importantly, Democrats pay for what they spend.
	Republicans don't.
	Republicans created this debt.
	A hundred percent, most of it, I should say.
	And it's Bush's wars on the credit card.
	It's Bush's Medicare prescription benefit.
	So that's healthcare spending.
	And then it's Bush's economy, which collapsed in 2008.
	Obama, of course, saved the economy and his major spending bill was the Affordable Care Act, which of course was paid for.
	And so then Trump gets in charge and then spends more money than anybody else with a tax cut that does nothing for the economy.
	It juices the economy temporarily.
	It juices markets, which are artificial, the stock markets.
	And what it really does is create way more debt than any other president did with a tax cut.
	For who?
	So it's Republicans that are spending American taxpayer money and not paying for it.
	Well, what's worse is that they'll treat this deficit as if it's something you can actually pay down.
	Do you know how high it is right now?
	It's like $27 trillion.
	We are never, ever going to ever pay down this debt.
	It means nothing.
	And you don't need to!
	Fine!
	Who cares?
	Nick, it's like arguing over how many Care Bears it would take to fight down the Wicked Witch of the West.
	There's no argument for that.
	That's the argument they're trying to make. - Nick, it's like arguing over how many Care Bears it would take to fight down the Wicked Witch of the West.
	- It's actually, there's no argument for that.
	It's actually seven. - Well, I mean, it depends on if they organize the Care Bear Stare.
	But the entire point here is that everything that we're talking about, everything falling over the debt cliff and all of this stuff, it's complete made-up bullshit.
	And by the way, this was my favorite thing before Rush Limbaugh obviously kicked the can, was Rush Limbaugh was presented with the facts about Donald Trump running up the deficit, and even he, as he was nearing death, Wasn't even worried about saying, yeah, that stuff was never real to begin with.
	It was never anything that was actually happening.
	Yeah, well, the most important thing, I think people, the most important difference between conservatives, certainly pundits and politicians and Democrats at this point, liberals and progressives, is there's no principles.
	There are no stated principles on the right.
	But winning, winning and convincing, you know, people to follow you and vote for you no matter what it costs is no, you know, I guess abortion.
	But even that they're there.
	You know, I don't know.
	They don't.
	Certainly when it comes to economics or militarism, you know, having it both ways on pulling out of Afghanistan.
	Uh, and, and pretty much everything else.
	Forget it.
	There's nothing left to the Republican Party.
	And what's important is there really never was a principle because they only say these things when they are in power.
	And then when they're out of power, they don't hold these principles and vice versa.
	No matter what the issue is, they're just unprincipled.
	They're inconsistent.
	Whereas, and that's partisanship too, like be for a thing and whether it's a D or an R, support it or don't support it.
	And it's that's that's all you need to know.
	They are.
	They have no actual beliefs or platforms that they support at this point in time.
	You might have been sugarcoating the results of a default by the United States government because it would be catastrophic across the entire world.
	But you have to imagine in the state of politics we are in now, that's exactly what the Republicans would want.
	Because we keep trying to get ahead of this and trying to figure out and predict how craven they're going to get and what they're going to do next.
	And there's always some sort of diabolical scheme that someone pretty smart is kind of figuring out.
	But you have to imagine there's a calculus here that says, well, geez, if we let this thing default, it will really reflect poorly on the Democrats.
	But it won't happen because Democrats have the votes.
	They'll have to get rid of the filibuster, but they're not... The question at this point, I think, is, and maybe I have this wrong, but it's the filibuster or default.
	They're going to say, if we don't do this, we will default, so we have to do this, and they will get rid of the filibuster for at least raising the debt ceiling.
	I think I have that right.
	Well, yeah, and I also want to point out, and this is something that people don't like to talk about, but basically the economy has always faded That's the way the American economy works.
	That's the way the market is set up to work.
	Yeah, it faded.
	Yeah, it will heat up and it will get so aggressive that eventually it will melt itself down.
	This is why, after FDR, they had to start putting in all of these regulations and breaks on this.
	So they said, we have to create some sort of a sustainable economy.
	That's not what the right wants.
	That's not what the wealthy want.
	Obviously, that's what we see in 2008 when everything melts down.
	The question is, who holds the bag?
	Right?
	Who gets the hot potato whenever this thing melts down?
	And you know eventually that the government is going to make everything right with anybody who loses any money at the top.
	They're going to be bailed out.
	They're going to be taken care of.
	And at this point, it's the same thing with the coronavirus.
	They look at all of this and they say, you know what?
	A lot of this shit is going to hit the fan at some point.
	I wonder who's going to be in charge when it happens.
	Well, yeah, yeah.
	And I think if any of your listeners are federal employees, they're scared shitless.
	They're so mad that they're going to potentially not be able to pay their mortgages because they're not going to get their paychecks.
	And so those are the first people that you're talking about.
	And then the rest of us will get ours.
	The other thing that's really maddening about this is that the Republicans apparently are willing to even vote for the infrastructure bill as long as the raising the debt ceiling is not folded into it.
	Which is ridiculous.
	It kind of tells you... I don't know what it does.
	It reveals the Republican Party as someone who really doesn't care about the constituents at all then, right?
	If they're willing to let that go.
	But then again, you should tell the Democrats, fine, pull that part out, do it through by eliminating the filibuster, and then make them agree to what they said they had agreed to, which is the infrastructure bill, and at least get that going.
	Because my theory is if they don't get this thing going at the right time for infrastructure, One thing I may be unpopular to say, and I like Joe Biden.
	because the effects of the infrastructure bill, which would be very positive for a lot of people, won't be felt in time to do that.
	They wait too long on all this stuff, and it's gonna be way past the midterms or even the 2024 before they feel the effects.
	And then maybe decide to vote for the guys that actually designed the bill. - One thing that may be unpopular to say, and I like Joe Biden.
	I think he's a good man.
	And I think he's a fine president.
	And I think that he's most importantly, the most important thing a president can do is pick the best people to surround himself with.
	I think he's got a lot of great people, good people.
	I think his chief of staff is one of the smartest people we could ever have in that position, Ron Klain.
	However, I think he's a very old man who doesn't have the energy to get out there, not to mention COVID.
	But I remember Barack Obama, which I covered every day at SiriusXM, his presidency.
	And Trump.
	They would get out and they would sell whatever they were selling, repeated over and over and over with a certain energy and enthusiasm that really got people fired up.
	And there's so much good, important stuff in these bills that he's passing.
	And he's just not able to get out there and get people to pay attention.
	I like him.
	I support him.
	I can't listen to him for more than a few seconds.
	He just bores me.
	And he's just not a great salesman.
	He's a good man, he's not a great salesman and I think that's problematic.
	And they need somebody else.
	I would even take that a step further and say that what Biden has the inability to do is to either grasp or use the bully pulpit.
	He has no interest whatsoever in getting out there and fighting a daily battle.
	I mean, one of the things I've noticed, and I mean, I'm sorry, but the three of us... Would you if you were 80?
	Well, that's part of the problem is I think that Biden still has this old antiquated idea that eventually Reason is going to win out.
	Patriotism is going to win out.
	You got to go on between two ferns.
	I'm serious.
	You got to do all kinds of unorthodox stuff and make a ton of speeches and get headlines and hold press conferences.
	Well, what I've noticed about Biden's strategy, communication wise, is for me, it's a lot like sort of a dolphin, right?
	The dolphin will come up and occasionally get a breath of air and then come back down.
	And when it comes up is a different question.
	And you'll notice that, you know, obviously Trump was in our lives every Every single moment of every single day.
	Biden lays low most of the time and he'll come out and he'll do a press conference on something and then he'll go away for a few days.
	And in this case, going back to what Nick was saying about the infrastructure bill being torpedoed and stalled, if your agenda gets broken because you can't outvote the filibuster, you have to go out and say, you know what, in the midterms, you have to get me more people.
	I have to have reinforcements, and that is the only way that he's going to be able to turn this thing around unless that agenda somehow or another goes through.
	The only thing I would add to that is extending your metaphor to Trump, and I would ask both of you to come up with an animal that you think represents him.
	I've got, there's two possible answers.
	You said, you know, Biden is the dolphin.
	I think that's a fine and good metaphor, but I think there's an accurate one to describe Trump.
	Nick, what do you have?
	Well, I think that Trump is the guy who rings the doorbell and says, I'm just a dolphin, ma'am.
	Can you open the door?
	And we all know, we're all old enough to know what the result of that sketch is.
	So I think that answers the question.
	I don't think so that our audience is skewers that old.
	Come on, Saturday Night Live?
	It's the late seventies?
	I don't think they do.
	He's a land shark.
	He's a shark, but the shark that eats like garbage, that kind of shark that they found in Jaws.
	I would say.
	Do you have one, Jared?
	Because I'll give you the two I'm thinking of very quickly.
	You know, I was going to say a beluga, but they're way too cute and lovable.
	I think Trump is a coyote who howls over and over and over.
	And says the same thing, or a rooster.
	Same thing.
	It's loud, it gets everybody's attention, it's annoying, but it's effective.
	Over and over and over.
	That's the playbook, and I think that that's... Obama did it differently because people actually liked him, but he did get out there over and over and over and make sense and look smart and look like he cared, and he was just, you know, granted, different times, different people, but we need a better messenger than Bernie Sanders, who's so right Well, here's who you're missing, and this is the genius of this person, because it's another old guy that you haven't mentioned, who I think deserves much more wrath, and that's Chuck Schumer.
	I mean, he's good at it, but it's still – it's him, and people tune him out as well.
	And unfortunately, I don't think Kamala Harris can get it done either.
	Well, here's who you're missing, and this is the genius of this person because it's another old guy that you haven't mentioned who I think deserves much more wrath, and that's Chuck Schumer.
	Here's a guy who can't do what Nancy Pelosi is able to do in the House.
	He cannot get anything going in the Senate and get these people in line.
	That is why it's not, I don't think it's Biden's job to do that.
	I think it should be Schumer's job and if he can't get this, if it defaults for any reason or it gets even too close to that before we have a panic attack and they do something, he needs to be out.
	They need to have somebody else be the Senate Majority Leader.
	Let's be very clear about what, and listen, I'm not a fan of Schumer.
	I've never been a fan of Schumer.
	Here comes a huge Schumer defense from Jared Yates.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Sexton's boy, Schumer.
	But I will say, in the Senate, and this is where, I know this is going to be shocking, but our media totally gets this wrong.
	When you're dealing with Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, everybody's like, you know what, they just really care about budget.
	They just really, they care about deficits and budgets and they just, they just have so much personal integrity that they just, they want to make sure that, you know, we're not raising the deficit too much.
	Meanwhile, Manchin and Sinema, yes, they have a D next to their name.
	Yes, they're technically part of the Democratic Party.
	But they're bought and they're sold by special interest and lobbyists.
	They have no interest whatsoever in creating a moment in which the government helps people.
	There's no argument that's going to bring them along.
	Maybe pork barrel can get them along some way, but they've basically offered Joe Manchin a space center.
	And he is still saying that.
	I got two words for you.
	Lindsey Graham.
	If that guy can get in line behind Trump for whatever reason, whatever they did to get him to do it, they have to be able to find something they can get the cinema and mansion on board.
	Yeah, but that's I don't think it's fair.
	It's so much different than Lindsey Graham.
	I mean, what a different situation, a different state.
	And, you know, he's I just don't think you can pull off, I don't think Democrats can pull off what he has pulled off.
	It's a good case study, Graham, but I don't know how, Nick, you could see Cinema or Mansion do what he did because he is Well, and by the way, to go ahead and move it away from lawsuit territory, what I want to say here is that I think with Mansion Cinema, and this is something that, you know, LBJ would have done in the past, right?
	LBJ would have gone to Mansion Cinema and said, you get the fuck on board.
	Or you have no future within the Democratic Party.
	That's it.
	That's done.
	We're going to find whoever it takes to primary you.
	Yeah, but there's nobody that can primary him.
	And there's nobody that can primary him.
	You can't do that.
	You can't do what LBJ did.
	That's why the comparison, I think... Yeah, but you don't think there's anything else?
	I mean, I don't know.
	Be creative.
	By the way, I think they're both getting on board.
	I think Manchin is not going.
	I don't think either of them are going to sink this.
	I think this is going to happen.
	I think you're going to see it happen soon.
	And by the way, my friend Maura Quint on Twitter, behind your back, if you don't follow her, everybody should.
	She's hilarious.
	She tweeted, honestly, we should have known who Sinema was going to turn out to be the moment we saw how she spells the name Kirsten.
	K-R-Y-S-T-N.
	I mean, that is sociopathic spelling.
	I mean, that's what you're clearly trying to get attention with your name spelling.
	We know what you're doing.
	Apologies to all of our listeners.
	You don't have one listener named Kirsten who spells her name that way.
	It's the way you spell your last name, Pete, as well.
	It makes me concerned.
	First of all, how dare you?
	The K is the norm.
	Second of all, if you have one person Who spells her name first and listens to the show that way, and they can prove it, I will send them $20 on Venmo.
	$20 American dollars.
	Wow.
	Which might not mean anything in a couple of days.
	We'll see.
	We'll see.
	Real fast, while we have Pete, I wanted to talk about this, which I always enjoy bringing this person up.
	Of course, the January 6th Commission, which has been investigating the attempted coup of a few months ago, they put out subpoenas for Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, Deputy Chief of Staff Dan Scavino.
	Again, just a murderer's row of assholes.
	The Chief of Staff to Defense Secretary Kash Patel, and one Steve Bannon, who of course is incredibly close to Pete.
	And I didn't know if you and Steve had been sharing notes.
	How is Steve?
	Yeah, how's he doing?
	Is he handling this okay?
	He's good.
	He was over to the house, when was it?
	Two Sundays ago, and he was doing his whole replacement theory thing, you know?
	Like you do.
	Yeah, and I was like, hey, Steve, could you not do that?
	Because some of my friends are Jewish.
	And he was like, yeah, sorry, man.
	Sorry.
	He took off two of his shirts.
	He still had three on.
	He still had four on.
	That's why they'll never find any of the papers they want to subpoena, by the way.
	They're all buried in there.
	But in his defense, like the rest of the afternoon and into the evening, he couldn't have been more pleasant.
	We're talking about gardening and his favorite seasons.
	Ancient esoteric mysticism.
	Sure.
	Oh, yeah.
	I forgot to tell you.
	And then he sacrificed a lamb for dinner, which I thought was weird, but delicious in his defense.
	So.
	Praise be to Moloch.
	I worked with him.
	For those who don't know, every day we shared a studio.
	He was 6 to 9 a.m.
	in the Breitbart Show on the Conservative Channel, and I was 9 to noon.
	And I hate him with the intensity of a thousand fiery suns and I think he's brilliant.
	I think he's very, very effective.
	I think he's got, he's had a long-term strategy and I think that progressives would be right to respect him and his strategy, as evil as he is.
	And I think the answer to combat Steve Bannon, who is leading the charge more than almost anybody else on the right, he's organized and he's leading the charge.
	We have to go hyper local.
	Be it boards of education.
	Town councils.
	We have to get on them.
	We have to support our friends.
	We have to do that.
	You've got to get on the bench.
	That's what they're doing.
	They are going to take over your board of election with people who believe that dinosaurs roam the earth with humans.
	That's flat earthers with replacement theory, white supremacists, with people who have no concern for expertise or policy, crazy people.
	And if we don't combat them, you better believe I'm sorry.
	I hate to sound like Jared.
	I'm sorry to fear monger here, but you better believe that is exactly what they're doing.
	That's what he's doing.
	We have to do it too.
	We have to catch up.
	I know you're way behind, but my local community has now like 75 people working together.
	Parents of kids in our district working together to create a diversity and inclusion program, but we're calling it Cheesecake Factory.
	So they're not on to us.
	We're just going to teach on like all kinds of diversity inclusion, but we'll call it cheesecake.
	I'm joking, but like you might have to title it something a little different, but you've got to organize locally.
	You've got to get involved or else you will see your school be ripped out from underneath you by a woman who thinks that you are a lizard.
	Well, here's the problem with that is that you can't stop the threats of these people's lives.
	And understandably so, people will not want to do those jobs, even no matter how earnest they are wanting to help people.
	Now, if they're doing their job, and we are and they're competent, then they don't get, you know, like in a normal thing situation, like nothing happens, they just stay there.
	But when you have this movement against them, and then they can at at I think that's a great point, Nick.
	I'm so glad that you brought it up because it's a really true point.
	But you can either be afraid, which I am.
	I've gotten involved.
	I've gotten recruited.
	I think I told Jared to run on town council.
	it's the most, I think that's a great point, Nick.
	I'm so glad that you brought it up because it's a really true point, but you can either be afraid, which I am, I've gotten involved.
	I've gotten recruited.
	I think I told Jared to be, you know, to run on town console.
	I'm part of this, uh, DEI group.
	Uh, and, uh, and, uh, I've also befriended the local right winger who's the most influential guy in town to, to, to try to work with him, uh, wherever I possibly can and try to argue with him.
	But the alternative is, you know, you can be afraid of that.
	Those are real things that are happening, real threats that you just said.
	But the alternative is that your kids are going to a school that is far worse.
	than you could ever imagine.
	And, you know, I hate to get nostalgic, but it's ask not what your community can do for you.
	It's ask what you can do for your community.
	It's time that us 30 and 40 year olds who are too busy and too concerned with work and making money and making a living, we've, That luxury is over, my friends.
	Over.
	You have to get involved right now.
	And if you don't get involved, and you just listen to your show and my show, and you say, at least I'm informed, you're not doing it.
	You are not doing your part.
	You have to do something right now.
	And if you're rich, then you have to give a shitload of money to candidates and to campaigns.
	And if you're not, Then you gotta give time.
	And if you're not either of those, maybe you can give both.
	But there's no more bench sitting.
	None.
	It's over.
	If you care about your kids, you care about your future, you care about the planet.
	And I want to bring Bannon around on this because of what he actually does that is incredibly effective in what you're talking about.
	We have reached this point of amazing cynicism, apathy, restlessness.
	We don't necessarily believe in the government anymore.
	The idea of American exceptionalism is sort of fading.
	Quote-unquote Western civilization is something that we now question all the time, rightfully so.
	Bannon gains power because he injects mysticism and holiness into things.
	It's totally bullshit, fake stuff.
	Like, the stuff that Bannon sort of peddles is all about, like, Volk, you know, folk energy and ancient gods and Atlantis.
	It's absolute gibberish.
	But by injecting that sort of religious fervor, it makes people believe in something.
	It makes them show up.
	It makes them willing to risk their lives and interrupt meetings and, like Nick was saying, call in bomb threats because they believe they're doing something holy and worthy.
	What we have to do is that we have to discover something that is holy-ish.
	in terms of a movement, in terms of government, in terms of being a part of something.
	For me, where I find it is believing that, you know what, I may not agree with my neighbor politically, but we're all part of the same universe.
	We live in the same place.
	We got to figure out a way to make this work and make the world better.
	And I think that we have to...
	And if you believe that, then courage is the last thing that's left.
	has been supplying on the right with white nationalists and white supremacists.
	Everybody else has to find something about whether or not it's making politics work or finding a new way or figuring out something that makes the world better.
	Yeah, well, we're smarter and better people than they are.
	And if you believe that, then courage is the last thing that's left.
	And I'll tell you, like, I think, I know this is going to sound, you're not going to believe me, it's going to sound really out of left field and kind of cheesy, but I'm 45.
	and my daughters are 16 months, My other, my younger daughter is 14 today.
	We don't talk about her as much, but joking, but my point is like, I would be okay to die for something I believed in.
	Like if I run for office and someone kills me or if I'm making a speech, like that's, it's not a horrible death.
	It's it's like I want like we if people think that that's trivial then you don't respect anybody who ever died in a war any servicemen or woman because they all died you know a lot of people died believing in something whether it was worth it or not we could debate but like if you're afraid to do something, then watch The Handmaid's Tale, because your life is going to be drastically different if you don't.
	Your kids' lives are going to be drastically different.
	Your community is not going to be the community that you hoped it would be, that you worked hard for it to be.
	So you have to, if you believe in your principles and that they're better and that you're a better person, more moral, more ethical, then you just need to find courage.
	And you need to make time to implement that courage and you need to do something.
	Everybody needs to do something.
	And I used to think that I love talking to you, Jared, and hearing you ring the alarms, but I always hoped that you were wrong or that your worst case scenarios were wrong.
	And whether the timing or the extremities, you know, the extremes of them were off or not, it's happening.
	It's happening right now.
	It's very fast, and everything is not okay.
	And it's not only okay in the poor communities, or the communities where there's a lower income strata than the one you live in, it's in your community.
	And if you don't see it, it's because you're not paying attention.
	It's happening right now, and if you don't see it, it's because you're not paying attention to social media, or you're siloed with your friends, but it's happening.
	And you have to do something right now, today, or else it slips away and they win.
	And I'm not... I'll... There's no way I'm going to my grave.
	I'll be fighting for the rest of my life.
	I don't care.
	I'll just keep losing.
	I do not care.
	I will fucking crush every one of these bullies that comes in my way.
	And nothing can stop me because it's... I don't see living otherwise.
	It's not worth it to me.
	Sorry if that sounded like a Braveheart speech.
	I swear I'm not an anti-Semite.
	No, that was a great speech and very, very inspiring.
	I think also we can take solace in the fact that this they that you're talking about is a very fringe group of people, very small.
	30% of the country, maybe, which means more than twice as many people in America completely disagree with them and can overwhelm them, especially when you're talking about voting for school boards and local elections as well.
	So that is the power without even having to think about, oh, I have to like volunteer here or be an activist there.
	If we got everybody like we saw in 2020 to vote, then you see an overwhelming majority of people understand what you just described and want that kind of United States.
	But it's so frightening when you can see how such a small fringe group can have that much control, and you wonder if they can move just a little bit more, you get a couple more percentage points, then all of a sudden we get to the Handmaid's Tale pretty easily.
	Well, yeah, and the most important, I think, thing that they are doing well is they are replacing The people whose job it is in each state and community to certify the vote.
	So even if we do everything we need to do to organize and to get the vote out, and even if we dominate the vote, that's what happened.
	In 2020, Joe Biden shellacked Trump, in many different ways, in many different states.
	Rub the states in the dirt, for sure.
	For sure.
	But there are still millions of Americans who don't believe that.
	And if you think that's not going to happen in your state or your community, you're wrong.
	It's exactly what they're doing.
	So we all have to get on board and take those seats for ourselves and get elected locally and at the state level.
	We're so interested in national politics for obvious reasons, but we've got to start paying attention locally.
	I'm also thinking about starting like a local media outlet.
	That's objective as hell, that gets comments from all people's side, like, whatever you can do to cover what is happening, there is no, there are very few resources and people learn so much about what's happening through gossip and through Facebook posts.
	I mean, the guy who's crushing it in my community, this right-wing guy, he just makes shit up, just completely makes shit up, like it's fact.
	And everybody's like, I can't believe they're doing that in our school!
	And if I believed they were doing that in our school, I too would be outraged.
	But they're not, and no one's fact-checking them.
	It's just a post, and he says, please share it widely, because that's his deal.
	He's a local columnist, and he's killing it.
	You know, the other thing about you mentioned, like, we are smarter than them.
	That is true overall in a blanket statement.
	But there is obviously some diabolically genius people on the right who are coming up with this stuff and who are staying three steps ahead.
	They're more committed, Nick.
	They're more committed.
	For the most part.
	And they're white and comfortable, especially.
	But look at the six point memo that came out written by John Eastman.
	I'm sure, you know, he was commissioned to say, OK, figure out a way where we could do it.
	And here's a guy who, like with some tinge of legality in there and constitutionality, like came up with this thing that, you know, and it's organized.
	John Eastman, who authored that memo, which was a six-point plan for a complete coup of the American presidency, was part of the Claremont Institute, which I talked about earlier, who have been forwarding this idea of Caesarism, the idea that American democracy, through replacement theory, as we've talked about, is so endangered that somebody strong and right and virtuous has to come in and take things over, a dictator, if you read between the lines.
	The Claremont Institute and other groups like them, these think tanks, they are bankrolled by some of the wealthiest people in this country who put their tendrils into universities, think tanks, one group after another.
	They are paying so much money and spending so much political capital to do exactly what Pete was talking about, which is to even take over local school boards.
	Because they are at all facets of this thing.
	So yes, there are diabolical minds, you're absolutely right, who are like multiple steps away from the left because, as we all know, there are people on the left still who don't want to believe this is happening.
	Listen, I mean, you have written about this and talked about it at length, Jared.
	But the reason why the left is not very powerful or organized is because we are so comfortable.
	We're not terrified of babies being murdered.
	We're not terrified of Haitians.
	Haitians!
	I mean, listen, I'll generalize about the Haitians.
	I fucking love Haitians!
	I've hung out with them at so many... They're the funniest cool...
	The idea that we're afraid of a certain group of people, the idea that we're afraid and that we're not afraid.
	They're not afraid of COVID.
	They're not afraid of climate.
	They're not afraid of racism.
	But the bottom line is, you know, Dr. King, one of his most famous quotes is in reference to this.
	It's the moderate.
	It's the white affluent class.
	That is, we're not motivated to do anything.
	My way of life has yet to be affected, guys.
	Whether it be soccer, or dance, or my gym, or any of the things I like, the sports that I like to watch, my favorite fishing spot, it's not affected.
	And that has to change or else you're going to see how affected it's going to be.
	You already are seeing it.
	And again, if you're not, you just don't care.
	You're not paying attention, but you're not listening to this podcast if you're that person either.
	Well, and that's the main problem here, is everything from the media to the political class, I mean, that encompasses mansions, cinema.
	There's a problem with a group of privileged people who still declare themselves to be liberals, who are so comfortable and so wealthy and so affluent, that the idea of changing anything, which might mean that they might have to pay higher taxes, or maybe the government will change, politics might change, that they might stand to lose a little something.
	And that makes sure that they are allies unwittingly, unconsciously with the right.
	Yep.
	But they don't even they but they don't even have to pay higher taxes.
	They don't even the thing is what affluent liberals have to do is very little.
	It's we don't have to do that much, but we have to do something or else what's happening to lower class folks or or ethnic minorities in this country is going to happen to the rest of us.
	I mean, there's a reason why black folks and Muslim folks and Jewish folks organized why they're so organized.
	There's a lot of reasons for that, like 400, 500 years, thousands of years of reasons.
	And the rest of us, like I didn't, I had, I grew up in bellflower circle.
	I, I built a half pipe.
	It was awesome.
	I had a seasons pass for skiing.
	None of that's changed.
	I've given all that to my kids.
	Minus the half-pipe.
	And no trampoline, girls!
	They're dangerous.
	Well, I always ask Jared why he hates America.
	Because I worry, since he's so concerned about framing it this way.
	Making the future better?
	Yeah, but clearly you hate America because this is what they frame it as.
	And that's the other thing I think about the right, is that A, The liberal viewpoint is obviously is a death to America and it's in umbiblical proportions.
	But they also, I don't think that they really want democracy anyway, right?
	It sounds to me as if they're so convinced that these policies they want to institute will be so much better for everybody else that they're justified in doing anything they can They don't.
	I don't think they realize it.
	means the death of democracy itself.
	And I think they're OK with that.
	I wonder if they were even to acknowledge that part, if maybe this whole discussion between parties could flow better.
	They don't.
	I don't think they realize it.
	I don't think supporters realize.
	But they are the type of people who will cheat to win.
	They will cut you off in traffic and feel no guilt.
	They will not wait in line.
	They will not pay their toll.
	They will cheat and not feel guilt in their relationships if they have a trusting relationship.
	They don't care.
	They don't care if their team that they support, the New England Patriots or the baseball team.
	The Astros.
	The Astros.
	If they cheat, they don't care.
	Winning is everything.
	And by the way, it's my daughter's school.
	The opposite team's volleyball coach.
	7th and 8th grade volleyball coach.
	Winning is all that mattered for 7th and 8th grade volleyball.
	He would do whatever it took.
	And you can tell these people are everywhere.
	And maybe all of us have an element of it to some extent in our lives.
	But this is exactly who they are.
	So democracy isn't even a component.
	All they care about is winning.
	And if they have to cheat to win, that doesn't matter.
	And so combating that is tough.
	Why do you hate America, Pete?
	we're up against.
	Why do you hate America, Pete?
	Well, I don't even like I love that conversation.
	I don't.
	What is America?
	What is it?
	I don't agree.
	Social construct, baby.
	I don't agree with you on what America is.
	And I also don't have any right to America.
	Like what?
	I was born here.
	Like I would love to live in New Zealand or Sicily or anywhere else for a period of time.
	Canada.
	Like, I don't really care about a country or patriotism.
	All that stuff never made sense to me.
	It still doesn't make sense to me.
	I care about community.
	I care about people.
	I care about the natural environment.
	I care about coexistence.
	I care about, like, that stuff is real to me.
	But, like, America and this patriotic porn and jingoism that we grew up with and even standing for the pledge.
	Like, I don't get it!
	I wasn't, I don't understand that stuff.
	What is your America?
	I guarantee it's different than mine, and that's okay.
	That's fine.
	Well, we gotta let Pete go.
	He's been very gracious with his time.
	Before we wind this thing down, a reminder, if you want access to our additional show on Fridays, The Weekender, go over to patreon.com slash muckrakepodcast.
	Pete, will you tell the people where to find you, where to listen to your show?
	I'm in my shed.
	I'm always in my shed.
	It's where I broadcast my daily podcast from every day.
	I do a half hour news.
	I try to make it funny and not too scary.
	And I interview two guest experts and it's everyday stand up with Pete Dominick.
	The YouTube is youtube.com slash standupwithpete, which is also my website, standupwithpete.com.
	I love you guys.
	It's always great to hang out with you.
	I love listening to your podcast.
	I never miss it.
	And strangely, and if there's other people out there, I almost always listen to Muckrake while mowing my lawn.
	I don't know why.
	It's like a thing that I do.
	I've heard that.
	I've heard that we're very popular with the mowers.
	Yeah, I need to be moving when I'm listening to you guys.
	I need to be cutting something.
	Weirdly enough, also the people cleaning out gutters.
	I think that says something.
	Oh, those people are psychos.
	They should get off that ladder.
	I won't do that at this point.
	Find out how they spell their names.
	Alright, that's about enough from you, Nick.
	Houselman.
	Houselman.
	There's like 17 N's, if I'm not mistaken.
	There's one too many N's, yes or no?
	There's only one.
	Alright, my last slam on Nick is...
	You better-looking Doug Stanhope.
	How dare you?
	Hey, it's the haircut.
	Thanks so much, Pete.
	You're the best.
	Thanks, guys.
	Love you guys.
	Thank you.

▲