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Aug. 28, 2020 - The Muckrake Political Podcast
32:24
Things Could Get Much, Much Worse (Or Better)

Another shooting of an unarmed black man. A white terrorist murdering protesters in the street. NBA Players striking. Jared Yates Sexton and Nick Hauselman discuss the current crisis and how the answer is in solidarity and mass action. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Time Text
It's amazing why we keep loving this country, and this country does not love us back.
People are rightfully angry and exhausted.
And after the murders of Breonna and George and Ahmaud and so many others, it's no wonder people are taken to the streets.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome to the Muckery Podcast.
I'm your co-host, J.J.
Sexton.
Returning after an unfortunate absence that left all of our listeners up in arms, missing you terribly, our beloved Nick Halseman is back to talk about just the dreariest, awful American politics.
Nick, we're so glad to have you back.
I was in the darkness.
I was what they described last week at the DNC, and it was not a good place to be.
Well, it turns out when you live in an America that can't actually take care of its people and we have escalating natural disasters and calamities, it turns out sometimes you're without power and the ability to speak out and use your First Amendment rights.
And speaking of, so we are recording this on Thursday, August 27th.
It's going to come out on Friday.
We're getting ready to do a live stream where we're going to watch Donald Trump's Nominating speech.
Things have been bad the past couple days.
Of course, we had the unnecessary shooting of an African-American man in Wisconsin, followed by a necessary protest, and then a 17-year-old with an AR-15 shot two people, killed them, hurt another person.
The Republican Party has closed ranks.
around a vigilante murderer, and it's rough to watch this stuff happening.
Obviously, we've been expecting this, predicting this, but he doesn't make it any less disturbing or any less enraging.
You know, I did an hour-long video on my on b-ball breakdown today interviewing some people in the community about this because it folds over to what the NBA was doing yesterday by You know boycotting the games yesterday.
They're boycotting today.
I believe they're starting up either tomorrow or Saturday Because I want to get this offensive like what does that really mean?
Does that mean it will do anything?
But all three people were African-American and they were able to give me some insights into like what it's like to have to be in that situation where the cops are pulling you over or they're involved.
And it's interesting because, you know, you do have this notion of, you know, from even from them where they're saying, like, why are you walking away?
What are you doing?
Why are you reaching into your car?
Don't do that.
Like my father had to sit me down and tell me that you can't do that.
And I know most white folk do not have to have that conversation with their kids.
I am.
all but it's it's just heart-wrenching all around and I think it just it just it just makes it clear that we need to retrain police officers we need to retrain the whole thing from the ground up which is what I suppose what defund it means when we say defund the police it just need we need to have the police we just simply need to it needs to be start over and redone I am like a lot of other people I was really disgusted
I've been really disgusted a lot lately.
I mean, how could you not?
The state of this country is just...
It's pretty bad.
And, you know, I watched the coverage and our media is just, they've been failing for years.
And they're continuing to fail.
And of course, one of the things that we keep seeing right now is that, oh, he had a knife in his car.
In his car.
Not on him.
In his car.
Oh, wait.
There's these freeze frames of the really grainy video where they're trying to say the knife is in his hand.
Well, you can see anything that you want on any video that you want to see, which is the whole point and problem with America right now.
But then also, it's like this 17-year-old murderer, right, who, by the way, has been flagged multiple times for being a potential violent person.
And then all of a sudden they're talking about him cleaning up graffiti and they're talking about, oh, I'm sure he's just, you know, meaning well.
Tucker Carlson, who can go straight to hell.
Tucker Carlson can go straight to hell.
Tucker Carlson went on TV last night and said, is it any wonder in times of looting and strife that a 17-year-old thought he had to take it in his own hands?
The Republican Party wants you to believe that you live in a world, particularly as a white person, where people of color are coming to hurt you and your family.
And you need to buy a gun.
Because first of all, that makes them money because they're all in on the scam.
But not a gun.
Can you describe that more accurately?
What these guys are owning?
An assault weapon.
An assault weapon.
A military-grade assault weapon.
Which, by the way, isn't it weird that it's the same weapon that gets used in all of these mass shootings and school shootings?
It's almost like that is a problem in and of itself.
Um, but so the right continues to tell you that this stuff is necessary.
They're already closing ranks around this kid.
And the reason they're closing ranks is because they want their supporters to believe they're in an invisible war against a conspiracy between liberals and people of color.
And of course, somewhere off there, they're, you know, they're Jewish puppet masters who are doing the whole thing.
It's the same song and dance, same story that we've seen with fascism time and time again.
You know, it's everything from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion to the New World Order to the Deep State to QAnon.
They're all the same.
It's the exact same story over and over again.
We were always going to get here.
And people need People need to wake up on this thing.
We've been talking about this.
We've been screaming about this.
We are tiptoeing up onto the precipice of something really bad.
And the right has already shown that they're more than willing to jump in with both feet.
And this kid, this kid is a perfect avatar for them to do that.
And as we head into a convention, A finale of a convention, and as we head into a presidential election, they are not going to hesitate to go in this direction.
It's going to lead to the point of not just violence and bloodshed in the streets, which we've already had, but systematic violence and bloodshed in the streets.
That's where we're going.
Well, you know, luckily the cops weren't encouraging these vigilantes with the guns beforehand, right?
Yeah, because they work hand-in-hand.
That's the damnedest thing.
I was talking about this the other day on Twitter.
I don't know if people saw it.
This is the history of law enforcement in America.
Law enforcement has worked with paramilitary white terrorist organizations time and again because they believe the number one threat to American security, people of color, right?
And whether or not it's going out and finding fugitive slaves or taking care of people, you know, during protests, during a Black Lives Matter protest, It's the same song and dance.
It's the exact same thing.
And they have relied on them, worked with them, coordinated with them, because this thing is rotten to its very core.
From the very beginning to where it is now, it is rotten to its very core.
Yeah.
You know, here's the thing that's interesting to me.
It's like, this country could be so much better with only a few little things, a few little tweaks almost, right?
If we could have an assault rifle ban, like we did when Clinton was in the White House, if you fund the post office, you know, and we get a little competent leadership, you know, maybe get rid of someone who's a leader like Trump, I think that would do wonders for our country.
I know there's a long list, a laundry list of things we need to get done.
But at some point, there are very specific things they could do and also retrain the police.
Now, that might be the tallest order of all time.
But it's like if we could get some of those things out of the way with some legislation quickly, it just feels like that would alleviate so much of the issue that we're having.
We can at least go from there.
Well, and one of the biggest stains on this country is the fact, and we talk about this all the time, the Republican Party is not a political party.
They're a fascistic movement.
They're about power and consolidation of power and the pursuit of profit.
They're doing all of this knowing full and well that it puts more lives at danger.
They've been doing it for decades.
They're willing to risk that and democratic institutions and personal well-being and the livelihoods and You know, quality of life of Americans.
They're more than willing to do it because it gives them an advantage to get more power and more profit.
What we have now is we have a political party that is terminally infected with a fascistic authoritarianism.
All of the things you just talked about are things that an industrialized society that worked in a sane manner would not have a problem with.
These aren't really controversial issues.
Nothing you just said is actually a divisive issue, outside the idea of possibly taking out assault rifles, which in a country that was sane, that wouldn't even be a problem.
Right?
Right.
You could also talk about the fact that we need to take money out of national defense and put it towards the well-being of human beings, because national defense is a racket.
It's a redistribution of wealth that is meant to take money from the people and give it to contractors and all of these people.
There are ways to make it better.
And the thing that pisses me off, man, and the thing that really, really makes me angry...
This world could be so much better.
But we are told to accept scraps.
That's the truth.
We are told that things can't get any better and shut your mouth or they're going to get a lot worse.
You know what I mean?
We have lost the ability to dream or imagine a better future.
But I'll tell you something.
And here's the thing.
You brought up the NBA action.
I would say it's a strike.
And I think it's important that we call it a strike over a boycott.
Because we need to point out the fact that people can take action.
That they can decide through solidarity and organization.
And watch what happened with the NBA.
The NBA within minutes was like, oh absolutely, no, you guys have the power.
No, you know what you're doing and you've decided and we follow that.
Because listen, you are the labor and we will follow it.
It's happened with that.
Baseball screwed it up.
They screwed it up completely.
But you know what the players just did before we started recording?
They walked off the field.
They walked right off the field.
All these other sports have figured out that when they take collective action, they win.
And here's the thing that Americans need to take from that.
We are terrified of losing our jobs because we are in a trench warfare austerity situation, which is something that people like Trump push.
They push division.
When we come together and remember that we have power, we can do incredible things.
And what you just said is exactly right.
We can have a better life.
We can have a better world.
And if we fight for it, we can get there.
But remember, like the NBA, for instance, there are the superstars that can't afford to take this time off and not play.
But there is a huge subset of players who can't really afford to do that in a way.
And we have Jared Kushner going on, you know, this interview where he says, you know, yeah, it's really nice that these, you know, really wealthy people can afford to take a night off of work.
It's basically what he described that as.
Not as a political statement.
Not as a way to try and effect change.
Not as an important, monumental thing.
This has never happened before since 1961, where players have walked out.
And instead, to him, it's like, oh, they're just taking a night off.
And the gall of someone who's that rich and that wealthy to cast aspersions.
And I got into it with somebody on my basketball Twitter about it because they wanted to say, he's just stating facts.
But it's not facts.
It's not what they're doing.
And it's it's it's almost subtle enough to where you can you can, you know, have people who want to cling to some sort of binary interpretation of things.
But it's just so frustrating because it just continues this.
The the what's the word I'm looking for?
The attitudes that that a lot of the people have in America.
And, you know, the only way you shift attitudes like that is with leadership.
You've got to have someone who can really So here's the thing about what you just said, which is dead on.
Jared Kushner hasn't succeeded in anything ever.
He's just like Donald Trump.
He is just like his father-in-law.
He's all about inherited money, inherited power, inherited wealth.
All of it.
But here's the thing.
The people you probably got in a fight with about this subject would probably be a lot better off financially and socially and in their lives if they got behind something like this protest, right?
But the powerful and the wealthy figured out a long time ago.
And if you actually go back and you look at like the Gilded Age, when you had... And by the way, the Gilded Age is pretty much the closest thing to what we have now.
Right.
When is the Gilded Age?
The Gilded Age is at the turn of the 20th century.
It's right after Civil War.
And actually, this is what we do.
We give historical context.
So, after the Civil War, They needed to build railroads, they needed to build telegraphs, they needed to update the infrastructure of the country.
So when the Confederacy gets beaten and the agrarian lifestyle gets shoved away, the union or federalism, whatever you want to call it, it needs to build a society that is more up-to-date and more modern.
So all of a sudden they start reaching out to private individuals.
Because they're like, we need you to do telegraphs, railroads, all the stuff to make America more modern.
And so all of these individuals start gathering to create the infrastructure of a new America, and the redistribution of wealth starts going from the people, through taxes, into the coffers of, like, you know, oil people, and railroad people, and communications people.
And so what they end up finding out, because what happens is, and tell me if this sounds familiar, They gain crazy amounts of wealth, crazy amounts of influence, and they start buying the government.
Isn't that weird how that happens?
That the moment that all of a sudden that divide opens up, they start owning senators, they start owning congresspeople, they start owning presidents.
And by the way, this is weird too.
Neither of the parties was really exempt from it.
They bought Everybody.
They got everybody on every side of an issue.
So what ends up happening is people start getting really pissed off at the wealthy because they're living in squalor, right?
And not only are they living in squalor, Like, you're living in a cramped apartment with, like, eight or nine or ten of, like, your family members.
Your child is working in a factory, losing fingers, losing limbs.
You're working 90 hours a week.
It's just unbearable conditions.
People start getting pissed off, and here's what happens.
The wealthy decide, one, they're going to start giving a bunch of money to charity because it looks good.
You know what I mean?
Otherwise the guillotines are coming out and the heads are going to start rolling.
So they start giving a bunch of money to charity, but they give it to charities that they control, which gives them a tax cut and basically creates, like, governments that don't have to have government oversight, right?
The second thing that they do is they realize they can start buying newspapers and they can start affecting reality.
And they can start telling people what's actually happening.
And in those newspapers and in those media companies, they start telling people, hey, you're not mad at us.
You're mad at your neighbor.
And all of a sudden, people don't organize when they're mad at their neighbor.
They hate one another.
They're not going to engage in solidarity and organization.
So what they do is they divide.
And when they divide, they win.
And that's what Kushner understands, is that Americans right now, Who are sitting at home, many of them laid off because of the Trump administration and COVID.
They don't want to hear a bunch of millionaires tell them that they don't want to go to work.
Right?
There's a natural class division in that, that he goes out and he exploits.
But it's bullshit.
Because at the top, it's just him playing a game.
And the guy that you talk to, the guy that you talk to has everything to gain out of solidarity with those players.
Now, and to address the notion of like how the media can then deeply affect the reality, you remember when Corey Lewandowski went in front of Congress and they were pointing out the lies that he told?
They were able to, you know, this is a lie you told to the press.
And I don't know if you remember, but he actually said, he's like, I have no obligation to speak, you know, to speak the truth to the press.
And it was so dismissive.
But what he doesn't even understand is that, OK, by you acknowledging that you lie to the press, you're acknowledging that the reality is bad and that you can't say what the reality is.
So you have to lie.
And they didn't really even follow up on that.
Eventually it might come out.
They're all going to get screwed, I would imagine.
But it's that kind of dismissiveness and that attitude that we had seen permitted.
And again, I think we talked about this maybe during the during the coverage.
But Do you wonder if all these really wealthy people, just whenever they get together, they just kind of look at each other with a nod and a wink and they all know what they've pulled over everybody else's eyes?
Now listen, there are people in the tech sector and people who have worked their asses off to make a lot of money and get in that club, but the Kushners, growing up and even, there must be some sort of secret handshake acknowledgement that they all kind of even, maybe it's internal, they don't even know it subconsciously, but they know that they've gotten one over on everybody.
And it's not, it's not earned.
I think that there is not just a secret handshake.
I think that you reach a certain altitude.
Do you know what I mean?
Like there's a certain point, it's like if you, do you ever play The Sims?
Yeah.
The Sims video game?
I'm all civilization, but yeah.
Yeah, civilization is a great example as well.
So anybody who's ever played any game like that, you know how there's like a, like a magnifying button and a button where you pull away?
And, like, at moments you can be down on, like, a street level, and on the other you're, like, at, like, a God level, and you're, like, looking at an entire continent.
These people are up at, like, that God level.
They're looking down on everybody, and they're not, and I've tried to explain this before, and it's a tricky thing to talk about.
Post-politics, which I keep trying to bring up, post-politics is about being above the ordinary, right?
We're talking about election 2020.
They're not interested in like an election.
They're not interested in like who people vote for or not.
They want to get past the election.
They don't want elections anymore.
They don't want elections that actually work anymore.
They're up here.
It's like if Kushner, so for instance, I mean, my God, what was it?
The United Arab Emirates thing that he's been working on?
Or Israel-Palestine?
He doesn't give a shit about Israel and Palestine.
He's not interested in brokering a peace.
He's interested in figuring out a way to get it like a pipeline.
You know, interested in figuring out a way to get money that moves around here.
So, I think you're right.
I think that they get together and they're talking about stuff that is actually beyond human.
It has nothing to do with whether or not our lives are better or worse, even.
We're sort of ancillary.
We're actually an annoyance to these people.
Like, our lives are completely disposable but also kind of meaningless.
So either they'll deal with us or they won't deal with us.
And that's like this NBA strike.
The NBA strike is dangerous to Trump and his cronies.
And corporate overlords.
It's dangerous because if people start recognizing, well, I could just stop going to work.
I could just stop spending money.
I could get in the streets with, I don't know, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of my best friends, and the next thing I know things can change.
Now that means that they can't be up there on that god level anymore.
You know what I mean?
They gotta get on the street.
They gotta magnify, magnify, magnify.
But they don't want to be there.
They have no interest in dealing with actual issues.
They want to throw the bomb in the bathtub and make people hate LeBron James and think that he's spoiled or something.
But yeah, they don't want to actually deal with this stuff.
They want everything to cruise along at a really high altitude so they don't have to get in and get their hands dirty.
Now, you know, it's funny.
I had forgotten, by the way, that the DeVos family owns the Orlando Magic.
So they are part of this infrastructure of the NBA.
And so the question I was wondering, you know, having a discussion on my channel about it was, like, what is the through line here?
What is the order of operations?
It's like, okay, the players strike, which puts pressure on the owners, and then I guess they hope that the owners will then put pressure on the government.
It seems to me that's the through line because obviously the owners, for the most part, are all the wealthiest people in America, and of course the wealthiest people in America do have that influence that you described beginning from the Gilded Age.
And it's interesting to me only because they'd agreed to come back and play, but in reality, if they were going to strike, it would be until they got some actionable solutions.
But I think we all know that what would that be if it was legislation?
If it was legislation, A, that takes months.
That takes years.
They never get back to playing.
And if it was like, OK, maybe what they should be demanding is arrest these officers.
Have them at least be under suspicion of committing a crime until they do the research, whatever.
Breonna Taylor.
Arrest the people that shot her.
That might be what they need to do, and yet they're kind of going to... I don't want to say they half-assed this, but it's unclear why they did this.
What was the point of the two-day strike if there's nothing... I'm not even sure I've heard even... Have you heard Trump?
No one's responded to the NBA players and the government.
Have you heard anything?
Trump has, and he responded in the most Trumpian way possible.
Trump came out and said, I don't know much about it, but their ratings have been bad.
Which is a lie!
Their ratings have been great, but that's his natural instinct.
And what you just said, I think, in a very, very quiet way, sort of elucidated what we're talking about here.
There are so many interconnecting financial and economic influences in all of this.
This is one of the reasons why America is in such trouble, okay?
So, like, you brought up, like, the DeVos family has a stake in the Orlando Magic, right?
My favorite sports team, professional sports team, is the Chicago Cubs, which is owned by the Ricketts family, who, by the way, have worked personally with Donald Trump, right?
If you actually look at, like, how these owners work, It's not like in the past where you'd buy a baseball team or a basketball team because you loved the sport.
You know what I mean?
You just loved being there.
You just loved what it was.
In fact, in Major League Baseball, that league has suffered because the owners don't give a shit about the sport.
They just see the teams as being something that they can use to profit from.
Right?
And that's actually hurt the entire sport.
Well, in this case, what you just talked about is like, not only are there the owners involved, but you also have multi-millionaires who are playing the sport as well.
And if they join a strike, they understand it's good for their brand.
Because the NBA brand, for instance, is very what you would call woke.
Right?
They're very interested in the rights of African Americans and people of color and they're very progressive.
So that's the question.
What is real and what is about financial benefit and your own branding?
But here's the thing.
The NBA strike, I think, is really interesting because it's technically what's called a wildcat strike.
And a wildcat strike is a strike among people who are not allowed to strike.
Because some people have it in their contracts, and the MBA is not allowed to strike.
But they went ahead and they did it.
And this is one of those things, so like, I'm an educator, right?
I'm in academia.
I can tell you that educators are terrified of striking.
Because we're very vulnerable.
We're not millionaires.
We don't have shoe contracts.
We don't have our personal brands we're worried about.
But there is a ripple effect.
And this is what happens in a society where a nation is failing.
When a nation fails and people start realizing it, they realize they can do things.
You know what I mean?
And they realize that they need to do things.
And we're inching up on that.
And people need to recognize that.
That they have power.
And that these people, like Trump and Kushner and all of them, They need to recognize that those people want them to feel powerless and like government is a spectacle that they cannot control.
And when people start remembering that they can control things, major change can happen.
You know, Kushter even used, dropped the phrase angry when describing LeBron James.
Because, you know, he kept saying, well, you know, have them come up with some concrete solutions that are productive.
And someone said, well, you know, LeBron James has a voting rights initiative where they want to help these felons who've gotten out of prison pay whatever poll tax you're trying to charge them so they can vote.
And he just dismissed it saying, oh, they're just being angry and being angry is not going to solve any problems.
It's just...
It's gross.
It's disgusting.
The funny thing is, a guy like LeBron, for instance, not only do they have the brand, and they have their salaries, and Wildcat's striking, but LeBron, his career is ticking down.
He can't afford to miss another season.
If he were to miss a season, he's older, he's slower, he's not jumping as high, he's not finishing as well.
That would cost him a title, potentially.
And you know how a title is the absolute number one goal he has right now to try and eclipse Michael Jordan and whatnot.
So, it's so many factors, which is why it was really interesting to see the Lakers and the Clippers leaving the charge for not even finishing the season.
They wanted to leave the bubble and calling it quits.
Really amazing to me, which tells me something about LeBron and how important they feel about this.
And the whole thing has been triggering to all the players in the NBA, especially because, again, we talked about this before, the video footage.
It's when it's in front of your face like that it's so visceral and so powerful that it just affects everybody and it's hard to do their job.
So here's the question and this is I would ask our listeners this, and I love our listeners dearly, and this is one of those gut check moments.
Because here's the thing, man, just to be real for a second.
We talk all the time on here and on our live streams and our coverage and all that, we talk about being at a moment of crisis.
Other people do it because they think there's money to be had or there's an advantage to be had or for the attention or whatever.
There are grifters out there.
I truly and honestly believe that we're at a moment of political, societal, and existential crisis.
People need to start looking in the mirror and asking themselves tough questions.
They need to say, what kind of person am I and what am I prepared for?
What you just brought up is an interesting question.
You cannot succeed if they can leverage things on you.
Right?
Like, if they're willing to, like, something like an NBA title, or millions of dollars, or prestige, I'm sorry, but it's like, I think you brought up, um, maybe it was during a livestream last week, but you brought up, like, the Dixie Chicks, or the Chicks, right?
They lost their entire careers, more or less.
Can you imagine that?
They were shunned.
They were shunned in American culture simply because they came out for an illegal and awful, immoral war.
Now, people need to realize something.
We're at a tipping point.
We're at a precipice of something very, very large.
And I'm telling you, the Republican Party and Trump, the things that they're embracing today, this is only the beginning of it.
It's only the beginning of what those people are willing to do to keep power and consolidate power.
If they can leverage your job, if they can leverage your profit, if they can leverage your good name against you, strikes, organized action, and actually like going out and fighting in the streets for what's right and saving democracy and a republic and liberal democracy, You have to be able to do it.
You have to be able to do it.
And it's gut check time.
I'm sorry, but it is.
And these people are willing to throw the democratic institutions that we know and love, and liberal democracy, and basic human decency, they're willing to throw those things away.
You know what I mean?
And you have to be willing to meet them where they are, because that's what they're willing to do.
I keep saying that what we're arguing against for the Republicans, they are also arguing the exact same way, exactly the same words.
So what's scary about that is that, you know, when Kaepernick was kneeling five years ago, he was an anathema.
People, you know, he was really unpopular for a lot of the country, right?
Especially like white, you know, educated people, they thought he was an affront to Well, five years later and after we finally, more and more people are really realizing what he was saying, right?
And that he was really protesting what we keep seeing with George Floyd and now in Kenosha with Jacob Blake.
But here's the thing.
So five years later, you know, all of a sudden we're on board, a lot more people on board.
Well, I'm telling you, the Republican ideology can also go through that same metamorphosis over a few more years and be even more accepted than it is now.
Kind of, you know, the tentacles can continue to spread.
That's kind of scary.
You know, at the very least, we need to be able to get the people who agree with that kind of ideology and especially the racists, the people who have no empathy at all for anybody else.
We need to get them to go back in the shadows, at least where they were.
You know, maybe they don't go away, but we need to have them be ashamed, a little more ashamed of what they think.
And it's not so public, you know, at the very least.
We have to reject this.
Because listen, and this is not hyperbole, this is just literally repeating what has happened.
We had a vigilante in an American city shoot people and murder people.
Right?
And by the way, it's not the first time it's happened.
Like, it has not been covered very well, but at these Black Lives Matter protests, people have been run over, they've been beaten, they've had people come out with knives and swords and bows and arrows and guns.
They've wanted to kill, and they have killed.
You need to understand this.
They've already embraced this.
That's not where they're going to stop.
They're not going to pump the brakes and be like, this is really upsetting.
I don't know that we can embrace this.
This is in the first term of Trump's presidency.
If he gets a second term, and by the way, he's promised to get two more after that.
You know what I mean?
If you think that they're going to pump the brakes and suddenly get better and suddenly become halfway decent human beings, you have another thing coming.
That's not who they are, and that's not the trajectory that they are on.
You need to understand that these next couple of months are very crucial about the future of not just this country, but your future, the future of your children, the future of your grandchildren, the future of your great-grandchildren.
This stuff is escalating in a hurry.
All right.
And listen, we're so happy that you're here and you're listening to this.
We've talked about this over and over again.
This is a really frightening time, but we appreciate you.
We appreciate your support.
We appreciate having a listener base that takes this seriously and isn't just serious about it, but they're serious about building community and organizing.
We thank you so much.
We won't let you know.
We're building a community over at patreon.com slash muckrakepodcast.
I have to tell you that the people over there, they're taking care of each other, they're being kind to each other.
We're actually getting ready to go cover the last night of the Republican National Convention and it has been a horror show.
I mean, it's been hell if you haven't been paying attention to it.
But we've been there for each other, we've been kind to each other, and I have to tell you, even the people who aren't patrons who are sending out their support and telling people about this podcast, we are just incredibly grateful.
There is hope.
If we organize, we stay together, we treat each other well, and we believe in one another, we can win this thing.
So yeah, keep showing up, people.
There definitely is hope.
If you need us, until next time, you can find Nick at Can You Hear Me SMH.
You can find me at JY Sexton.
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