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July 17, 2020 - The Muckrake Political Podcast
01:00:13
Is The Government Trying To Kill Us?

Governor of Georgia Brian Kemp voids mask requirements in the state and co-hosts Jared Yates Sexton and Nick Hauselman take him to task, deconstruct the descent of the Republican Party, and welcome on Brooke Binkowski to talk about misinformation, surf Nazis, and battling fascists online. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Time Text
The president has said, unmistakably, that he wants schools to open.
And I was just in the Oval talking to him about that.
And when he says open, he means open and full.
Kids being able to attend each and every day at their school.
The science should not stand in the way of this.
There was this order that came down this week that's now forcing hospitals to send their data directly to HHS instead of going to the CDC where the world's best epidemiologists work.
You said this week there's no way to run a pandemic.
So what about this concerns you?
My concern is that the information is going to get scrubbed and we're not going to get it unedited as we used to.
I got a big truck just in case I need to round up criminal illegals and take them home myself.
Yep, I just said that.
Hey everybody, welcome to the Milk Rate Podcast.
I'm Jared Yates Sexton.
I'm here as always with my co-host Nick Haussleman.
We're going to be joined in a little bit by Brooke Benkowski, Managing Editor of TruthOrFiction.com.
We're going to talk about misinformation and I don't know, man.
You know, we do this podcast all the time.
We get hot.
I'm really hot today.
We got good news before we have to start.
I want to start with a little bit of hope.
We got a new logo that Nick put together that is a world beater of a logo.
That's something to be excited about.
Now let's take it down a level, because I live in the state of Georgia, where Governor Brian Kemp, and by the way, for those not keeping track, coronavirus in Georgia is out of control.
It is spiking, obviously.
Brian Kemp, who is just a... Oh, by the way, I mentioned that he stole the election from Stacey Abrams.
Did I mention that?
Because I don't want to lose track.
I want to get all the facts down straight.
Yesterday voided every local requirement of Georgians wearing masks.
Because I guess at this point we want people to get sick.
Am I missing anything here, Nick?
Well, I'm going to tell you, if you might be hot, I'm really kind of mad at myself.
And the reason is, is because I keep trying to get ahead of what they're going to do and how evil they can get.
And I thought, like, you know, I can figure it out and predict something.
But I'm kind of pissed at myself that I didn't predict that they would pull something like this out of their hat.
And then we can talk about the CDC data in a second, which is kind of tied to this.
But these are the kind of things where it defies the science.
And here's the thing.
I don't know people on the other side, the people who are listening to Kemp, really understand how important leadership is and how influential these kind of guys are.
It really does change the whole mindset of a lot of people who might not have been completely against masks, and they're not as sure about it.
But when they hear the governor talk about it like this, It hardens it into a fact that the masks are against my civil liberties and people are going to die.
It's really that simple.
Yeah, I want to talk about the batshit part of this thing, which is that when Brian Kemp voided local restrictions of masks, he has been actively going around Georgia.
And by the way, he's refused to say, you know, everyone has to wear masks.
He's refused to require it, right?
He's been going around Georgia on a tour, asking people to wear masks.
Right?
I want you to think about that.
This is the mental gymnastics that this person is going through.
And I wanted to spotlight Brian Kemp, not just because I find him detestable, but I want to point out that I think that he is one of the Rosetta Stones through which we can actually understand the modern Republican Party.
And we're going to play you an ad from Brian Kemp's gubernatorial campaign that he stole from Stacey Abrams.
And before we play this, I want to point something out about Brian Kemp.
Brian Kemp is a professional person, right?
This is a person who, you know, made his money with deals and, you know, made a bunch of money before he ran for governor.
This is a person who is like a respectable member of a community, a respected businessman, as much as those people are, you know, above ground.
But I want you to keep that in mind.
I want you to remember that this is a person who was just a person who happened to have a ton of money.
I'm Brian Kemp.
I'm so conservative, I blow up government spending.
I own guns that no one's taking away.
My chainsaw's ready to rip up some regulations.
I got a big truck just in case I need to round up criminal illegals and take them home myself.
Yep, I just said that.
I'm Brian Kemp.
If you want a politically incorrect conservative, that's me.
Alright.
Just to recap.
Fake explosions.
That's one of my favorite things is that you should go on YouTube and look this up.
Give it some hits because this thing's a piece of art.
There's a fake explosion and just in the background it's made by, you know, some sort of video editing or whatever.
Just really terribly made.
Probably one of his kids.
Probably.
Then there's an explosion.
He says, I like blowing up.
And by the way, like, listen, I live in Georgia.
I'm okay to say this.
I like blowing up legislation.
And the next thing you know, he's like cocking a gun.
And obviously he's like, this is my gun.
You ain't gonna take it.
And then he pulls out a chainsaw because Nick, did you know that he's a real tough, strong man?
Then he starts up his truck and says it's for criminally illegals and he's going to pick up those criminally illegals and drive them back to the border.
And then he's like, yeah, I just said that.
He's a politically incorrect conservative.
It's insane.
He's just a person playing a role, right?
And I want to point out that the Republican Party, and we talk about this all the time, has a terminal, terminal illness.
And it is, it's not just in fascism, it's drowning in fascism.
And in part, it's because people like Brian Kemp are trying to play the societal roles, right?
They're trying to appeal to our worst thing.
That's a fascistic ad.
It's like, come take my gun and you'll die, and I'm gonna go round up human beings, right?
And he's playing this role, and he's trying to navigate both trying to be governor of Georgia, plus also appeal to fascists, is what he's trying to do, right?
Populist fascism.
And now, in the middle of this pandemic, he's the governor of a state, which I don't know about your understanding of the role of a governor.
For me, it means you're supposed to take care of the people in your state.
Right?
And he has to somehow or another go around asking people to wear masks, but he wants to stand next to Donald Trump and pretend like he is like a freedom-loving good Trump boy.
And that, that doesn't work.
These things don't actually coexist together, and it's one of the reasons why this country is in the trouble that it is.
Well, you have to go to HBO if you haven't and watch this new documentary called Kill Chain because it talks about how easy it is to disrupt our elections digitally.
But they do mention Brian Kemp in there who was the Secretary of State and then managed to oversee the election that he was involved in by people voting for him.
So when you keep saying he stole the election, I think you're alluding to... Wait, is that a conflict of interest?
Because I hear what you're saying, and it's doing laps in my head.
And I'm like, is that a problem where the Secretary of State in a state oversees his own election for governor?
Does that not sit right with you, Nick?
Are you telling me there's a problem there?
It wouldn't be much of a problem if they had resisted, like, getting, you know, actual voting machines that aren't, you know, easily hackable and have been under a lot of suspicion from that for years and they don't have any interest in having any backup paper ballots.
So yeah, maybe add that to it.
What I'm hearing from you is a bunch of liberal BS.
Wait, you think it's wrong for the Secretary of State of a state overseeing his own gubernatorial election to just somehow or another purge thousands of African Americans from the voter rolls?
Wait, you have a problem with that?
Is that like a liberal sort of a stance?
What's your problem with freedom, Nick?
Yeah.
Well, you know, forgive me for wanting everybody whose right it is in this country to vote to actually have that opportunity.
I thought, you know, I'm indoctrinated and I was taught, you know, in a strange way in the North, I suppose.
But, yeah.
Well, that's where you went wrong, Nick.
It was in the North.
That was the problem.
Yeah, so let's, I mean, listen, the Supreme Court just ruled now that they're gonna, right now, sort of institute what Florida has, which is basically a poll tax, saying that if you've done your time and you've paid your dues to society in prison as a felon, if you haven't paid any of the nominal fees that are involved with the illegal side, then they won't let you vote.
And it's like, it continues to You know, everything that you just said, I feel like is factually accurate, but it was lacking explosions and the cocking of guns.
Yes, and the starting up of a... Of a chainsaw.
A chainsaw.
country have anyway it's almost like a bigger this is this is indicative of a bigger issue um but what is bigger than voting when you come down to it you know everything that you just said i feel like is factually accurate but it was lacking explosions and the cocking of guns yes and i started up with a of a chainsaw chainsaw oh gosh that's the most liberal moment i've seen What's that thing called?
It's the one with the trees and the things.
You just gotta... That is... I kind of... Yeah, that's a moment for the animals of this show.
I... You know, it's so... stupid.
You know what I mean?
Like, and if you, and I, again, I don't care about sending people to give hits to his YouTube... ads.
You should go watch this.
Because, by the way, the shit-eating grin on this guy's face.
You know what I mean?
Where it's just like, it's these pampered, soft-handed guys who have, like, people on the roll to teach them how to roll up their sleeves the right way, you know?
Go out and be like, hey, here's how to talk to normal people.
I'm your normal people wrangler.
And this guy, who is just a rich, white-collared dude, has to go out and play this role.
And by the way, if you watch this ad, he's not actually discussing any issues.
There's no issue, right?
He says, oh, I'm anti-regulation.
Well, that's interesting.
Wait, are we talking about...
Every piece of regulation?
Oh, you're anti-illegals and you're just gonna go round them up.
Which, by the way, what would happen if you just went to a quote-unquote criminal illegal's house and put him in your truck?
Well, where I'm from, that's kidnapping.
I don't know about you.
And by the way, probably multiple other accounts.
But the message that he sends out is that, listen, I don't care about the law.
I mean, he's threatening people with guns.
It's literally threatening to murder people.
And this is the person who is now responsible for somehow or another running a state, a big, giant state, with one of the biggest cities in the country, Atlanta, in that state, which by the way, he is now told Atlanta Which, I don't know if people listening know this, because I'm from Georgia, I'm well aware of it.
The Atlanta International Airport, basically, I think statistically, everyone who has ever existed has had to be in the Atlanta Airport at some point or another.
I mean, it is one of the major transportation hubs in the world.
And meanwhile, and by the way, it's not like we're all traveling.
We can't go to Europe.
We're not welcome anywhere, but that's a different story.
He can't actually govern.
The Republican Party can't govern.
And right before we came on the air, do you want to read the quote from the press conference today?
Do you have it handy?
I do.
Let's see here.
You sent it over.
McEnany, Kayleigh said, the president has said unmistakably that he wants schools to open.
And when he says open, he means open and full.
Kids being able to attend each and every day at their school.
The science should not stand in the way of this.
Wait, that's not as bad as what Pence said.
I want you, very quickly, Hold on, I'm making notes because this is something.
It really, really is.
You know what I mean?
Okay, so what is that last line again?
I love this line.
The science should not stand in the way of this.
Should not stand in the way.
I just want to print that up and put it in a frame so I can look at it.
That's a beautiful sentence, isn't it?
The science should not stand in the way.
And you'll notice that in the middle of her saying this, right?
So she says, and by the way, like, we've all been hearing these plans, right?
All these schools, have they been given money to handle the coronavirus from the federal government?
No, of course not.
Okay, has Betsy DeVos given them anything even approaching a plan?
Well, she's gone on TV and kind of mumbled around a little bit, but that's about it.
And embarrassed herself.
In a national way.
Wait, but let me give you, can I give you the Pence quote?
Because it's probably even better than McEnany's.
It's, it's, here you go, ready?
To be very clear, we don't want CDC guidance to be a reason why people don't reopen their schools.
What the hell is going on here?
So, again, this is the amazing thing that the Republican Party is trying to do.
Because there's still people who believe that the Republican Party...
And here's the thing.
Kim knows there's an illness in the Republican Party.
Like, he has to know as he's dealing with this stuff.
He has to be like, oh my god, I can't believe I'm saying this stuff.
You know what I mean?
Like, he's a reputable business person who's going there cocking his gun and being like, I'll kill some people.
He has to know that he's playing a role.
Meanwhile, Pence is coming out and saying that the Center for Disease Control, which by the way is also in Atlanta, you know, just doesn't matter.
Go figure in the backyard.
Yeah, so he comes out and he says that we can't let these rules go.
Meanwhile, the federal government doesn't want to tell anybody what to do, but they will punish them if the schools are not open every day.
Right?
Which so many of these local communities are like, well, we'll have kids go for three days a week or maybe two days a week.
We're going to make this happen.
We're going to figure it out.
You put the responsibility on us.
They have to turn it into a cultural war.
It's it's it's not even like a give and take it's you are going to do this and I don't care how many people die because they need these political cultural wins but they're literally going to sacrifice people's lives.
Well here's the thing I think that this is it's a it's a political cultural win, I suppose, to them.
Although, again, it's so short-lived because when these become super spreader areas and hotspots, it's going to completely backfire.
But apparently that would be after the election, which still doesn't make sense to me.
This is a person of one.
This is a leadership of one.
This is Donald Trump, who will not, you know, is Norman Vincent Peale and stuck on the positive power thinking and will not, you know.
And again, I think he's convinced he'll get the suburban moms back because that'll speak to them in a way Oh, I'll get my brat kids out of the house and I'll finally get some time to myself, which is complete and utter bullshit.
So I think that this is what they're talking about.
I don't think this is, maybe you can argue with me about this.
If this is Republican wide, you know, is it more the same, the Republican stuff, or is this a specific Trump thing?
Because that is an interesting thing to parse.
Well, and this goes back to something that we've talked about, is how the Republican Party got to where it's at.
And, you know, for the interest of time, we could start with, like, Nixon or Goldwater.
That would be perfectly fine.
But we have to start in 2010.
And the reason we're starting in 2010 is because we've had Fox News by 2010 just absolutely infecting the American right, you know, at that point for, what, 14 years.
And so they've created this alternate reality.
And what ends up happening in 2010, because of Barack Obama's election, is the right loses its mind.
They just start spinning this constant conspiracy theory that, you know, he's a secret Muslim who was born outside the country, and he's a socialist, and he's gonna, or not even a socialist, he's going to kill your family, is what they tell.
And by 2010, all of a sudden this Tea Party thing takes over, and the Tea Party is not just, it's not just a racist Fascistic movement.
It's a racist fascistic movement being paid for by billionaires like the Koch brothers, right?
And the Tea Party is a group of people who literally believe that Fox News is true.
They don't think it's a propaganda organ for the Republican Party, which it is.
And the Republican Party has to make a choice at that point.
Because, I don't know if you remember this, Nick, there was a moment where the question was, is the Tea Party going to outpace the Republican Party?
Do you remember that?
There was like the moment where it's like, oh, maybe the Tea Party is going to become the conservative party in the country.
It's going to sort of out-crazy and out-produce.
Well, the Republican Party was like, oh, man, we have to bring these yahoos into the fold.
And they started going to Tea Party rallies.
And instead of turning it into a political party, they turned it into a movement.
And suddenly the Republican Party has to move further right into that alternate reality.
And suddenly their representatives are people who believe this stuff.
Like, do not get me wrong.
There are Republicans in power right now who believe this batshit conspiracy theory stuff, right?
There are other ones who are really good at translating it.
They're really good at trumpeting it, right?
Because if you're going to be governor of the state of Georgia as a Republican, you gotta pose with a chainsaw and threaten to kill some federal agents.
I mean, that sounds outrageous, but that's literally what you have to do.
It's like running for president, you have to go to Iowa and pose by a butter cow statue, you know?
In Georgia, you gotta cock your gun and promise to have a Waco.
I just checked, you know, he got just shy of 2 million votes.
And I'm kind of wondering what percentage of those 2 million people that voted for him, or whatever you want to call it.
No, I think those are legitimate, the actual votes he got, right?
What we're going to argue is he's probably just disenfranchised on the other side.
Who knows?
Who knows?
What are our elections next?
So, the 2 million people, like, half of them were probably watching that ad and being like, yeah.
Yeah, get that chainsaw out.
Yeah, get that car started.
Don't even clean out that back.
Make it dirty as possible so when you throw the immigrants in there, it'll be worse for them.
I mean, I swear to God, there must be a significant amount of those people.
Now, I've been to the Atlanta airport like you're talking about.
I haven't really interacted with too many people from Atlanta.
I was stuck in the airport because of half an inch of fucking snow.
They wouldn't fly.
I mean, it was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life.
Wait, are we talking about the before times?
We're talking about the before times?
Wait, was that back in the time where we got on metal birds and we flew places?
Yes, exactly.
Wow!
By the way, people are still doing it even today, and now the middle seat is being filled.
Although I have not heard of much tracing and tracking from planes, which doesn't mean I'm telling anyone to get on a plane right now because it seems I mean, it's the ultimate death thrill.
Riding in a plane is probably the similar feeling you have to jumping out of one at this point.
You know?
You couldn't pay me right now to get on a plane.
I have to get shampoo and conditioner and it's like taking my life in my own hands right now to go to the pharmacy.
You know what I mean?
I'm that scared right now.
Maybe you should grab one of those things.
What are they called?
The user one trees?
And they have blades?
What do they call those things?
An axe?
A chainsaw?
Is that what they call it?
Oh, okay, yes.
Uh, okay.
That'll keep my six feet distance from everybody.
Well I just want to point out that like what we're talking about is it's such a maelstrom of bullshit.
You know it really is.
It's like all these things that I don't think most people are comfortable with because again it's like Brian Kemp had to pretend and if you watch this ad you have to do it like he's just a good old boy Nick you know it's not like he has millions of dollars and Americans Particularly white Americans who are trying to like hold on to whatever power that they thought that they had or that they did have.
They all want to pretend like they're just these masculine American cowboy heroes.
You know what I mean?
Like they're buying these AR-15s and pretending like they're big soldier boys and you know that they're going to defend their house from the U.N.
if it ever comes to that.
And, like, it's this bizarre, psychosexual, masculine fantasy.
Which, by the way, weirdly enough, has powered every fascistic movement in the modern world.
It's whenever a bunch of people who had power feel like they're going to lose power, and it's insecure men who suddenly get boosted up into these fascist organizations, and they wear death's heads, and, you know, black uniforms, and, you know, Pretend that they're more frightening than death.
It's a bunch of live-action role-playing that the Republican Party has been pulled into.
And by the way, that's one of the reasons why they won't do this mask thing.
It's because it's all about not wanting to appear insecure or afraid.
And as a result, hundreds of thousands of people are dying.
And our society is crumbling because of this psychosexual bullshit.
The subtext also being that they don't want to be part of a community where we help each other, right?
That has always been underlying what they think, especially their pushback on things like universal health care.
And they don't want to admit it.
They don't think that they're saying that.
They can simply criticize the other, like Obamacare, because it's the devil's work.
But they don't have a plan.
They don't have a sense of ever interested in anything else that would help anybody like that.
It's just a weird thing.
You know, the other thing I would think is that you would never win running an ad like that if you were in a state above the Mason-Dixon line and east of the Mississippi.
Right?
Like, you're not winning any states like that.
And I'm not even sure, when you get west, you probably won't win in, you know, in Oregon or Washington State or California doing that either.
I'm thinking, like, maybe Wyoming and the cowboy thing might get people.
Isn't it interesting how theoretical this is?
I want to say, and actually, I will challenge that because I'm from the great state of Indiana, where I guarantee in the last six months a politician has ran an ad where he fires off an AR-15 and talks about...
The land of Dan Quayle.
Yeah, where some, you know, probably a guy who is either a lawyer or like a, oh, you know, like a developer, you know, in like some sort of like suburb community...
Holds up an AR-15 or a shotgun is like if those Indianapolis Antifa which is a code word for African Americans if they ever come to Carmel You know and meanwhile he's late for his tea time, but that's but it's it's the Confederacy mindset Right, which is it's it's actually and if you want to get into it like we don't have time to get into it and maybe this should be an entire episode one day it's a bunch of genteel planters and Do you know what I mean?
It's like aristocrats who don't even want to get their hands dirty planting the crops.
And so you have like an entire like slavery class who does the work for them and they want to pretend that they're very masculine.
Meanwhile, again, it's like all this masculine insecurity.
That mindset has infected from the Confederacy up into places like the Midwest and certainly in, like you said, in the Western states where everyone wants to pretend they're a cowboy.
And meanwhile, they have like a 10 to $15 million ranch that they hire out, have people take care of them.
So those ads would probably work elsewhere, but it's on a different level of insecurity for sure.
I mean, it's like the lovely McCloskeys in St. Louis who decided to wield guns at a Black Lives Matter march that was going down the street toward the governor or the mayor's house.
They are lawyers, and they had even tried to say that they stood for Black Lives Matter and they represented people who are for the cause.
But look how quickly they were stirred up to become the poster children for what you're talking about, right?
It didn't take much at all for them to instantly – Did you ever?
To put down their drinks, by the way, to put down their whatever, their cocktails, get out their guns and hold them in the most ridiculous ways.
Undoubtedly, they had like a celloist or a cellist that they had paid to perform that evening and they were like, hold on, Amber.
And have you seen the pictures of that house, by the way?
It's amazing what's in there.
I mean, it's incredible.
It's like this Rococo dystopian nightmare.
And here's the thing about it.
Like, I'm so glad you brought them up.
They are the poster children Of this?
This white fragility?
Because here's the thing, anyone who owns that house, and if you've read the articles about these people, like, they kind of, I think, live with a dogging paranoia that they don't deserve what they have and somebody's gonna take it away.
Do you know what I mean?
And I think that's white paranoia.
I think that white people, particularly wealthy white people, know that they have gotten ill-gotten power and wealth, and they feel like the check is going to come due at some point.
And as a result, they're like, oh, I'm going to get an AR-15 and take care of this thing.
And I think that that infects a lot of their behavior.
I think that those people in particular.
This is like an anthropology, you know, like a documentary.
We're in the wild observing white people and how they act.
We're at the P.F.
Chang's and the wontons have not been brought out in time.
And here you'll notice developer Al screaming about the unfairness of the situation and brandishing his sidearm.
You're describing a divergence here, because it seems like some white people, out of the guilt of white, you know, privilege, want to work harder and understand it and shut up and listen and see what they can do to make society better.
And the other half, or the other however many, go into the paranoia.
It's interesting, right, because something makes some of us Go one direction and the other, you know, in the more profoundly negative direction.
And you have to imagine it's the brainwashing to some degree, and it's media, and it's these commercials, I suppose.
Something deep in our psyche has appealed to the basis of our instincts, I suppose, about what it is.
And I guess we're talking about white people specifically, right?
Isn't this what we're really focused on?
No, we're talking about a moment in American history where white supremacy is in trouble.
And the reason it's in trouble is because white supremacy throughout the entirety of human history has been based on a mythology.
A weaponized narrative.
Which is, oh, racism doesn't exist.
It just so happens that these people over here, they're not talented.
And we're the people who are in charge.
Man, they're not working hard enough.
And meanwhile, we've got this, everyone.
Don't worry about it.
Wait, what's that?
A pandemic is here?
What do you want us to do?
Oh, I don't know about that.
Oh, I, I, no, I'm not so, I'm not so sure that we can handle that.
Right?
Like, we're at a moment where this narrative is starting to fracture.
And there's a panic that's coming.
And it always happens.
Every time that there is a movement that challenges white supremacy, white supremacists get incredibly violent.
Let me bring this up because Tucker Carlson was in the news, our friend, your friend and mine.
Wait, are we talking about the heir to the Swanson frozen food fortune?
Yes.
Oh, okay.
I just want to, because you have to bring that up every time Tucker Carlson gets brought up because he's, he's currently playing a populist, uh, hero, right?
He's there for the, the working man, right?
This Swanson millionaire billionaire heir.
I just want to get that on the record.
Sure.
So his head writer, or I guess one of the writers, you know, gets fired somehow because of all these horrible, racist, misogynist things he'd been writing anonymously, and they figured out it was him.
And then they discovered that a lot of the things he'd been talking about earlier in the day would then magically appear on the show, like almost word for word.
And here's what Tucker actually responded with, because I want you to help me translate this.
Because the words are English.
I recognize the words.
When you put these ones in the specific order, I'm kind of scratching my head.
I'm trying to figure out what this means.
So help me here.
Here's the quote.
And this is in response to him being fired and him doing it.
He said it's bad what he wrote, but he goes, it is wrong to attack people for qualities they cannot control.
In this country, we judge people for what they do, not for how they were born.
What does he mean?
Does he mean that there's a racist gene that you're born with?
I think that's what he's saying.
Ones and zeros and whatever those are called.
So here's the thing, Nick.
Tucker Carlson's racist variety hour, and I, you know, I've come to affectionately start to call him the fish stick prince.
I think the fish stick prince is trying to tell us, and listen, this is something that the President of the United States said the other day, that the real victims of racism in this country I mean, everybody knows it.
It's white people.
White people are the most prejudiced against group of people, right?
Because, I don't know, people walk by their house.
Or, you know, and that is the whole thing.
It's so funny because it's actually, Tucker Carlson's doing the same thing.
If I'm not incorrect, I think he just announced after he did a show, he announced that his white supremacist head writer, who was like putting pure white supremacist neo-Nazi bullshit on Fox News every night.
And actually worse than the usual Fox News line.
They actually turned it up to 11, like Spinal Tap.
And this guy, he announces, how dare you?
How dare you go after this person and slander him?
He has so much talent.
I'm going on vacation.
If you need me next week, I'll be, I'll be fly fishing, which is wonderful because it goes back to this Brian Kemp thing, right?
Which is like a wealthy guy.
I've been like, I'm going to round up people in my truck.
Tucker Carlson thinks that non-wealthy white people, like a river runs through it, are just going out to beautiful rivers and just Fly fishing, because that's what a normal person does.
You know what I mean?
It's like, if you need me, I'll be with all the other boys down at the Legion eating creme brulee and then drinking fine pilsters.
It's amazing!
It's just amazing what this guy has done and how disgustingly he embodies the problem with the Republican Party.
Hats off.
Hats off to Tucker Carlson.
Enjoy the river.
I mean, it reminds me of the Republican National Committee was having a big thing.
I think I want to say it was Arizona.
Did you see this video?
And the guy is speaking at the podium and he's like just coughing up a lung.
And he looks like he's sweating and like has a fever.
And here they are.
Oh, I know, because the Democrats refuse to have it in person.
They're going to do a virtual convention and they were made fun of by the Republicans.
And here's this guy who's going to spread it to everybody, it looked like.
We have to keep our tabs on it because I'm sure he has it.
Well, so here's the thing.
We talk about a lot of serious stuff on this show.
We do.
And by the way, we do it because we should.
The country is in a moment of crisis.
But I want to put this out there for everyone.
This moment, you have to laugh at it or else you'll cry every day of your life.
It is so absurd, and I will point out, just for everyone keeping track, the Republican convention that is coming up, which they now have had to move outside because of COVID.
Oh yeah, they're going to do a lot of it outside.
I have to tell you, the RNC this year, while it is going to be an absolute black eye on this country, and it's going to be an international embarrassment, and it'll kill off parts of your soul,
The amount of unintentional comedy that is going to happen at this year's RNC, the worship of Trump, the misinformation they're going to peddle, and all of the speakers getting COVID and just, like, you know, not being able to finish their speech, and then Hillary's going to get locked up, and then, like, being led off to some sort of, like, isolation.
It is going to be rare, rarefied unintentional comedy.
I, for one, welcome it.
Oh, I know.
There's a comedian out there that does these rants to the camera, and I'm forgetting his name right now.
It's hilarious, because he mispronounces everything and whatever, but the people on that side probably really feel like he's speaking to them.
But at the very end, he always ends with a cough and then cuts, and it's the most hilarious thing I've ever seen in my life.
And I really almost feel bad for laughing at the potential of somebody being sick, but that's his little wink.
And when you see this, you see these coughing people, It's unbelievable because you know what, in a microcosm it sort of stands for what we're talking about here.
I just got a little tickle in my throat.
I'm not really sick.
This is not really going to hurt you.
You're not really going to die.
Young people aren't going to get it.
They're not going to spread it.
I guess the bottom line here is you have to start at a certain baseline.
Whatever Tucker Carlson is talking about, about the being born with it thing, I suppose, there's something you start with as a baseline that then infects the rest of the information you get.
It's really interesting how that starts.
Well, and again, just for the record, I don't want anyone to catch coronavirus.
I would love if it went away.
I don't want anyone to die.
We shouldn't be rooting for people to get coronavirus and suffer from this thing.
But you're exactly right.
It infects the information that they push out.
We can't even talk about what's actually happening with the coronavirus.
They're stepping in the way of this all the time.
And this misinformation is a massive, massive threat to our health and safety.
And that's one of the reasons we're bringing on Brooke Brankowski here in just a second, Managing Editor of TruthOrFiction.com.
So hang out for a second.
You don't want to miss it.
Just an FYI, everyone, the first little bit of Brooke's interview, we had a little bit of a connection problem, but it gets better.
So hang around, promise there's good stuff.
All right, everybody, Brooke Binkowski.
Hey, everybody, we're back, and we're really lucky to have Brooke Binkowski, Managing Editor at TruthOrFiction.com.
And before I start, I have to send out a shout out.
I actually, the reason we have Brooke on here is because I had a neighbor of mine, Who occasionally will send me links to podcasts that he believes that I need to hear.
And he sent me one raving about it.
And it was like, I can't believe how great this guest is.
You have to have this person on the show.
And I opened it up and it was Brooke, who I enjoy so much on Twitter already.
So just a quick tip of the cap to Dawn.
And we're really lucky to have Brooke.
So.
Thank you, Dawn.
Brooke is of course, yeah, Dawn, Dawn, Dawn mailed this one.
So, neighbor Dawn.
So, Brooke, you ferret out misinformation and you correct the record.
And so I have to ask you, how are you doing this right now?
What is it?
How do you survive this moment?
Well, I live two miles from a dispensary, and that really is kind of what keeps me going.
But in all seriousness, okay, so I mention this because it's a big part of my life, and I probably seem like I have a big hang-up on it, but before my disinformation phase, I was a border reporter for I don't know, 15 years, I think?
10 years?
15?
I don't know.
What is time, right?
But for a long time.
So I worked in Mexico and in the United States along the border and that sort of ideological gray area and geographic gray area that exists and legal gray area that exists.
So in that liminal area, you get used to shit being really weird.
Oh, can I say, can I swear?
You absolutely can.
You get used to shit being real weird, really fast.
Like Mexico is a very surreal country, you know, like, Any literature that talks about Mexico written by people who are from Mexico is like, yeah, we're the country of the surreal.
And I mean that in the best possible way.
I love Mexico very much.
I really wish I could go there, but right now I can't leave the country.
We're not allowed.
We're not allowed out.
Oh yeah, that too.
But I mean, before that even, there was a flag on my sentry, and then there was a flag on my driver's license, a flag on my passport.
Like, I've been singled out for harassment at the border so many times at this point, and it's been a very exciting experience.
The last time I crossed was in November 2018 to meet with that caravan.
And, um, by the end of that experience in secondary, crossing back into the United States, I was like, okay, I'm, I'm at risk, but more than that, I'm putting people who are really vulnerable at risk, who don't have access to lawyers, who don't have access to anything except, you know, the shoes they're wearing and their kids.
And like, I just, I decided to just stop crossing.
And, um, I mean, I decided to because of intense harassment and being singled out and held for hours at the border every single time I crossed.
Um, for the past couple years.
And anyway, the point of all this is I'm used to weird shit happening, um, just at the border in Mexico, in the United States, because of my work.
So that has prepared me a lot for this.
I mean, the stuff that we're seeing right now is kind of the same flavor of disinformation campaigning that I've seen around and about the border.
It's even the same, the same people.
Oh my God.
I'll get into that later.
Um, but that's, that's pretty much it.
That and the dispensary.
I also have really good people around me.
I have a great support network and, um, They generally tell me when I'm going off the rails, they're like, you need to rest.
And my family is all around me, and they're like, you need to go read books about folklore or something, and go look at your plants.
I have plants everywhere.
I don't think you can see them.
Well, there's some behind me, but my whole house now is just this green area, and that has also helped.
So really, I got nothing except I got good friends, good family, and a lot of plants, and I live by a dispensary.
And I'm used to weird shit.
Well, I thought we could talk a little bit about, like, we're always trying to get to the truth of things and the bottom of things and the origin of things.
And this new thing about anti-masking is weighed up with so much kind of misinformation, a lot of, like, false facts.
I got into it yesterday with a crazy guy on Twitter about it.
So I'm wondering... You have to stop.
I'm sorry.
I try.
I'm not going to tell you.
It's research.
It's research, Jared.
Yes.
So I'm wondering, have you been able to trace the origin of the anti-maskers and where that started?
Kind of.
I've been tracking that for a while.
So my hometown is La Mesa, California, which is where there was a big uprising, maybe what, May 30th?
And I live, I still, I've returned to my home area, which is San Diego.
I returned here about 10 years ago under, oh man, I was so bummed to come back.
I was like, I just don't like it here.
I'm very uncomfortable here.
I don't know why.
And now I'm realizing what I was detecting was this sort of There's a lot of underlying racism and anti-Semitism here that I must have been picking up on this whole time because I'm like, holy crap, this is bad.
So the point of this, sorry, every story leads to like three other stories.
I'm not this scattered, but it's connected, man.
It's all connected.
Oh, my God.
I feel like Charlie Day in Philadelphia.
So there was this whole uprising, and we'd already been watching the anti-mask propaganda start, we being my team and I, across the country.
The anti-lockdown, the anti-gridlock protests started in April.
They were very obviously astroturfed by patriot groups and shit like that.
Also, I think, and I haven't looked too directly into this yet, but I suspect some of it was astroturfed by Stand Up America, which I think is, Oh, God, what's her name?
Tulsi Gabbard's Families Network.
But I don't know.
I just there's a there's a similarity in the names of the groups.
So I have to look into that.
Sorry, I'm starting my own rumors now.
Anyway, so these patriots are already we're already starting this, you know, all these conspiracy theorists are already passing this back and forth.
And then there were a bunch of Black Lives Matter protests.
There was a thing in La Mesa.
And all of a sudden, these paranoid patriot types, white supremacists, basically, or those enabling it, which is the same thing, were like, oh, well, we need to start forming groups to defend ourselves, and we need to defend our neighborhoods.
And they started forming these militias, or trying to form these militias.
And at the same time they're doing this, they're making inroads with anti-vaxxers, who also want to defend everything.
There's this wide net being cast with algorithms and disinformation and propaganda, but the end goal is basically they can't tell you what to do.
And they being, you know, Democrats and assorted groups.
And it's all being couched as this, we have to defend our communities and ourselves Against all of these people who are trying to hurt us and kill us.
And part of the way they're trying to hurt us and kill us is through these masks.
And the anti-vaxxers bring that shit in.
So they start saying things like, well, you can reinfect ourselves with the masks.
And I mean, all of it is kooky.
It's batshit insane.
And there is no scientific basis for any of it.
But they're all feeding on each other now.
And the algorithms on Facebook and the disinformation being pushed on Facebook is, I believe, the guiding force bringing them together and helping them find common cause in this sort of, you know, self-defense crap.
As far as who is behind the disinformation propaganda and the pushes, I mean, who would benefit the most from seeing the American population sick and dying and weakened and collapsing in on itself?
I mean, there's a lot of countries that would really benefit geopolitically.
So I think it's coming from a whole bunch of state forces.
The way I think we can fix it domestically is by cracking down on our issue with white supremacists, because we have a massive problem with fucking Nazis.
I thought we'd gotten rid of those.
Oh my God.
Anyway, so I bring up my hometown, La Mesa, and why I felt uncomfortable there growing up, because, and this is something I didn't think about for years, I didn't think it was ever going to be relevant again.
So I grew up in San Diego, I'm from here, but growing up, I didn't look like anybody at my school.
I got teased and then I got to, um, I was just odd looking.
I wasn't popular.
I was just odd and I was always from somewhere else and I didn't know anything about my own family's history, right?
I didn't know anything about our background.
I was kind of fixated on it, actually, because they were always really weird about it.
There were a lot of people who changed their names, had falsified birth certificates and stuff like that.
And I was like, OK, there's something like I'm other somehow, but I don't know how.
I'm a white girl from California.
But what is the deal?
And then I got into high school and the goddamn Nazis latched onto me just.
And they're like, you're one of the good ones.
And I'm like, one of the good freshmen?
Okay, sure.
But the Nazi kids were like the cool kids at my high school, which is Helix.
They were surfers.
They had long hair, they called themselves long haired skins.
And they were the Metzger kids.
Like, they were always like, you know, I mean, I recognized all this shit from day one, because it's the white Aryan resistance stuff.
Um, and they, I thought they were joking because I didn't realize, again, didn't know my family history, didn't know I was a big old Jew.
Actually, no, I'm a big old Jew and a big old Roma.
So I'm a gypsy Jew in white supremacist parlance.
And, um, this is what I found out doing my ancestry.
My family's like, you know, we've been run out of all these countries and, you know, until we ended up in California, uh, in the, I don't know, mid 1900s.
And so, like, I realized, eventually, what I was picking up on in San Diego was massive anti-Semitism.
And it was directed at me, but I didn't know, because I didn't know my family's history.
So I'm like, doo-doo-doo-doo.
And that's why the Nazis latched on to me as well.
In high school, they were obsessed with nailing a Jewish girl.
And again, I didn't know any of this.
They told me this, and I thought it was all a joke, so I would laugh about it.
And all these things they taught me, I, again, put at the back of my mind, but then they would make these jokes about how they, you know, if I ever told anybody, like, what they were saying, they'd find me and kill me.
And they'd be like, ha ha, it's just one more for the gas chamber, that kind of thing, right?
And I didn't think about it, but then I started, dude, it was nasty, I started tracking them quietly on my own time in my 20s in San Diego because nobody else was in Southern California.
And then I started doing border work and, you know, I'm sure you can imagine that on the border there are a lot of white supremacists.
So a lot of these people are the same people I encountered, or I knew of them, or I, you know, knew who they were and who I was because of my high school connections.
And so I've been going up against Nazis in San Diego now for years.
And I can tell you, there are massive forces in East County San Diego and throughout San Diego and in Southern California and across the West Coast.
Throughout the United States, and I think they're the ones who have been empowered to pass around this disinformation and propaganda and turn it into a very nasty, cohesive, organized power grab, essentially.
And I think it's matching power grabs taking place and playing out all over Europe.
I think you think the sequel to Point Break would be this story, it sounds like.
Yeah, the Nazi service.
Well, there's a movie called Serf Nazis Must Die, and it was actually modeled after the straight-up Serf Nazis in Southern California, which I didn't know.
I swear to God, all of this was so foreign to me.
I had no idea until I found out my family's history, and I I keep thinking about this.
This is all very new.
I only found out about three years ago.
My family was like, yeah, you didn't know you were Jewish?
I'm like, no, nobody told me.
And when I said, hey, what's our real history?
Oh, Eastern European.
So the whole trope has been basically, you're not from here, you're from somewhere else, you don't belong here, blah, blah, blah.
The people who actually belong here are surfers, you know, that kind of shit.
It is so weird.
And again, I didn't think any of this is relevant.
I put it all behind me 30 years ago.
Years ago, and now I have to think about it all over again because the kind of stuff, the language that we're hearing, the border stuff, all of this comes from the same people.
The people I know, people I grew up with, the people who I've been tracking, the people I've studied, and they're all in DHS now.
Yeah, we, before we got on here, we were having a lengthy discussion about this performative fascism by the Republican Party, particularly fueled by white insecurity, right?
And this idea, because one of the things I think that's interesting about the story you just told is the fact that you didn't even know your heritage.
It wasn't like you were involved in some sort of massive conspiracy or, you know, a threat to anybody.
And meanwhile, talking about the border and the misinformation there, we're talking about refugees, right?
We're talking about people who are at risk themselves, who need help, and they've been turned into MS-13, they've been turned into killers and rapists, and I'm sure some of them are good people, all of that bullshit.
Can you talk a little bit about the misinformation that you have to battle and you have to report on and how that plays upon that white supremacist paranoia and insecurity in order to activate this behavior?
Yeah, absolutely.
So I can talk about specific stories.
And as you know, disinformation and propaganda is extremely opportunistic.
So it just kind of takes the weapons that are laying around in a society and uses it to widen these cracks, right?
So what we have here is Absolutely white insecurity.
It is the defining factor, except for misogyny, that will break us apart, you know?
Yeah, if those go together.
I mean, that's like peanut butter and chocolate, sure.
I mean, I wish I'd known all this back then, because I could have thought it more effectively, but of course I didn't know anything at that point.
I was 14, you know, and they had weed, and like, that was it.
But yeah, so what we're seeing now is What's really aggravating is it's the same exact disinformation, the same exact propaganda that's been circulated throughout the border region and about the border region for decades.
Again, same people, right?
It's the Tanton Network and the Associated White Supremacists.
So there's this scaremongering that plays on psychosexual fears, right?
The rapists and they're going to come steal your women.
Oh, that's what we were talking about!
The psychosexual fears!
Good times!
Love you some good psychosexual beers, man!
I, myself, am a seductress, apparently.
I didn't know!
I'm like, holy shit, man, I sound hot!
So, um, I mean, not me, but, you know, like, women are, like, gonna come find nice men and steal them from their, their non-Jewish wives, right?
Um, sorry.
Learning all these tropes has been such an education.
So there's that.
There's also the, um, so the Antifa thing.
Um, which is like, I'm seeing these, like, increasingly hysterical rumors that Antifa are arming themselves and training themselves and they're planning a violent revolution.
It's like, well, somebody's planning a violent revolution, uh, you idiots.
Did you guys see that there was a town, I believe in Ohio, where they were afraid of Antifa coming?
And so they sawed down trees?
Yep.
And they went out, like 600 people went out with their idiot guns.
Yeah.
Incredible.
Somebody's gonna get killed, and I mean, that's the goal, right?
It's like, somebody's gonna get killed, and it's gonna be grotesque, or more people are gonna get killed, it's gonna be grotesque and bloody and on camera, and that's what they're hoping for, and then it's gonna loop, and then everybody's gonna be horrified, and you know, so on.
But yeah, it's stuff like that.
And Antifa, by the way, is, you know, Antifa is cultural Marxists.
It's lizard people.
It's Illuminati.
It's the New World Order.
That's what it is now.
It's just it's just the same old boring anti-Semitic garbage.
And then, you know, of course, Antifa is aiding BLM.
This is what these hysterical groups that I have quietly invaded are saying with my self-help accounts.
They're saying, you know, BLM is being aided by Antifa.
So it's just, it's, it's the civil rights struggle all over again, right?
It's like, oh, those people, the commies are helping the black people, right?
It's the same warm air bullshit, but it's effective.
It's working.
And it's superpower now from algorithms and this sort of algorithmic targeting that Facebook is doing.
And I know I get poo-pooed a lot for talking about this, but I think the data targeting is incredibly important, a major factor in this, and the algorithmic targeting.
Well, we can talk about Parscale then, but before we do that, you know, Jared and I, you know, are always trying to picture what the scene is in the Oval Office with Stephen Miller and Trump and these fat guys.
The smell must be pungent, but the point being... Oh, we got a smell of cabbage in there every day.
We're wondering, I was thinking more like sulfur, but cabbage too.
The point is, is that I wonder how organized these ideas are.
How organized is the origin of the ideas?
Are there a couple people sitting around going, okay, we got to attack this.
So what can we say about the masks, for instance, or whatever?
And then what would be plausible enough?
Like, how organized is it?
Or is it sort of an amoeba that's sort of floating around and kind of just sort of organically creates these things?
No, I think it's very organized.
And this is where I start to sound real crazy.
But again, this is what Disinfo does to you.
You start to sound like a nut.
I think it's very heavily organized.
I think that the ideas themselves have been floating around for years.
It's like the George Soros crap, right?
So these George Soros rumors have been floating around in the atmosphere, like a virus, for years.
People are like, oh, George Soros.
And it's another anti-Semitic rumor because they're all anti-Semitic in the end.
But Soros was like saying, or people are saying about Soros, like, oh, he's he's the Illuminati, you know, he pulls all the strings.
And that existed for, I don't know, 15, 20 years until 2014, when it was weaponized by Vladimir Putin, who got pissed off about some some statements that he made criticizing Russia for its expansionist aims.
I mean, go figure.
or criticizing the Kremlin.
I don't want to, I don't like when people say they're Russians instead of the Kremlin, because the Russian people are suffering just as much as, you know, the American people are right now.
So, or most of them are, I assume.
So the, I think that there are certain things that come up that are assessed to be especially chaos fomenting or exceptionally destructive to the discourse in general, and then it's getting I think that there are certain things that come up that I I think it starts out opportunistic but ends up being directed.
But I think that the disinformation propaganda is like, Like they're saying, oh, well, we need to distract people from this major screw up.
So let's talk about how immigrants are screwing up this whole country and then ban foreign students.
And then everybody gets upset, starts talking about banning foreign students.
And then all of a sudden, we don't have to talk about Roger Stone being pardoned or sorry, having a sentence commuted anymore.
Because suddenly we're talking about foreign students and everybody's upset because it's you know, an emotional, an emotionally charged topic.
And it's, it's bad, and it's wrong, and it's infuriating.
So it's, it's like, they throw the other thing that's frustrating about disinformation and propaganda is you can throw whatever you want at the wall, and then just go with whatever sticks, you can be opportunistic, because it's very low effort and very low risk.
So I think that it's a combination of both.
But I really do think that there are people out there who are tracking just like we do, who are tracking where the disinformation goes, and who's sharing it, and who's doing what with it.
And then they're just making it worse.
They're just really just shitting up the discourse right and left.
And I try to do the opposite when I can.
That's part of the reason I sit on Twitter all day insulting people.
Part of it is I just enjoy sitting on Twitter all day insulting people, but some of it is actually like, If I make people look foolish, who are pushing disinformation and propaganda, or if I infuriate them to the point that they say something really, really stupid, then that short-circuits this pattern that ends up making, that's a little bit of like, you know, like, fuck you, you can't tell me this, you know?
And then they implode, like Chuck Bouldery imploded the other day, it was great.
So, oh, it felt so good, man.
I didn't do that, but, you know, when they implode, it's great.
I'd love to take credit for it, though.
But yeah, so it's a combination of organic and opportunism, but there are people sitting around, I think, well, I know, I know, there are people sitting around going, okay, this worked before, let's try this again.
There are occasionally, like, quiet days in the disinformation world where I'm like, I know they're just, I just picture all these, like, big, you know, guns being recalibrated, like a science fiction movie, because I can't seem to think outside of science fiction and fantasy references anymore, because my brain is broken, so I just picture You know, they're just recalibrating to see what can work, and then I know that something big is coming.
There's going to be some big tantrum or some big disinfo push.
Sorry, that was a very long and sprawling answer.
No, and we have to tell you, thank you so much for being out there and fighting the good fight.
I feel better knowing that there are people like you who are doing this.
Again, we've been speaking to Brooke Binkowski, Managing Editor of TruthOfFiction.com.
Where can the good people find you?
Where can people find me?
On social media, sadly.
I'm sort of embarrassed by it, but yeah, that doesn't change my behavior, so I might as well just dump the embarrassment.
But I'm on Twitter all day long, every day, yelling at people.
Because that's where it's all happening, right?
That's where all the journalists are.
That's where if you want to get in the middle of a journalist and a disinformation push, you get on Twitter and you're like, no, no, no.
So, Brooklyn Marie on Twitter, B-R-O-O-K-L-Y-N-M-A-R-I-E.
It's an old nickname.
I'm not actually from Brooklyn.
I have no connection to Brooklyn.
I've been there a couple times.
It's very nice.
But it causes a lot of I think we all thought maybe Twitter might have been fun.
And yet, here we are in purgatory.
Well, thank you so much, Brooke.
Everyone should follow her and absolutely must follow her on Twitter.
going to be fun for like covering, you know, protests on the ground in LA.
I didn't think it was going to turn into it.
I think we all thought maybe Twitter might've been fun.
And yet here we are in purgatory.
Well, thank you so much, Brooke.
Everyone should follow her and absolutely must follow on Twitter.
Thank you so much for coming on.
Thank you.
And I need to get my podcast off the ground so I can have you guys on so we can talk about white supremacist networks and how bad they are.
Done.
Done and done.
Thank you so much, Brooke.
Thank you.
Take care.
All right, and that was Brooke Finkowski.
Again, an absolute must-follow on Twitter as she is battling misinformation.
I am so glad that somebody is.
I mean, we do our part, but it has to be exhausting.
You know, I was impressed with her answer about why she does it, and the fact that she feels like she can, like, burst the bubble a little bit, because it does feel so impossible, right?
You're going up against people who are so firmly rooted.
But, you know, if you have experience in this, I imagine, yeah, there might be ways where you can get to crack a little bit of the facade, and then maybe that'll eventually lead to some more self-reflection and greater truth.
I know I try, man, but man, it's crazy.
What I love is I'm listening to you Run your head around continuing to fight with people on Twitter.
Which, you know, you gotta shoot your shot, man.
You gotta do what you can do.
Well, you know, they accuse me of being like, you know, indoctrinated and I'm all like up the head of the ass of the Democratic Party, whatever.
But then I'm like, well, look at what you're saying.
You are just following what Trump is saying.
Exactly.
Word for word.
Why are you any different than me then?
Like, let's get to that point and then we can maybe go on to merits and have a discussion.
But it doesn't get anywhere.
You know, what I find funny about that is, like, we're a pretty unbiased podcast.
I mean, we dish it out everywhere.
Like, everybody has a little bit of responsibility in this whole thing.
So, and we appreciate you for coming here and listening to that.
I mean, things have been great in terms of support and growing the audience.
We are so appreciative of you.
Spending your time here.
I keep having people reach out and talk about wanting to support us, ways to do it.
Right now, what we need, we need you to like and subscribe and comment and rate the podcast.
That stuff helps with algorithms.
You have helped build this show up and we are just eternally grateful.
So thank you so much for that.
We will be back on Tuesday.
Hopefully, God willing, there's no emergency.
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