Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool

May 26, 2020 - The Muckrake Political Podcast

01:01:29

We're Not Considered Human Anymore

A militia hung Kentucky's governor in effigy outside the gubernatorial mansion. Economists are referring to "human capital stock." Co-hosts Jared Yates Sexton and Nick Hauselman discuss these disturbing trends, masculinity and fascism, and settle some online feuds. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	Ahead of Memorial Day, Second Amendment supporters marched on the Capitol grounds.
	But it wasn't just signs or chants sparking political leaders to quickly condemn what they saw.
	It was this.
	Governor Andy Beshear hanging in effigy from a tree at the Capitol near the governor's mansion.
	We don't have our capital stock hasn't been destroyed.
	Our human capital stock is ready to get back to work.
	And so that there are lots of reasons to believe that we can get going way faster than we have in previous crises.
	Hey, everybody.
	Welcome to the McRigg podcast.
	I'm your co-host Jerry J. Sexton.
	As always, I'm joined by my loyal and faithful co-host, Nick Halsman.
	We're sitting here, 98,000 dead during the coronavirus pandemic with absolutely no relief in sight.
	Things are rough out there.
	It's also Memorial Day.
	We got to talk about America's militarism and how it betrays its ideas and the sacrifices of veterans.
	But before we do, unfortunately, Nick, we have to talk about just some straight up grade A garbage.
	At a Second Amendment, reopen America, we're mad about something, whatever, just throw whatever cause you want at it rally in Frankfort, Kentucky, a bunch of militia members.
	hung the effigy of Kentucky's governor, Andy Beshear, outside of the governor's mansion, including a sign said Six Semper Tyrannus, which, as you might know, is what John Wilkes Booth screamed after he killed or shot President is what John Wilkes Booth screamed after he killed or shot They did it, which we're going to talk about, listening to Lee Greenwood's God Bless the USA.
	You can't really ask for a more disturbing scene, can you, Nick?
	Well, you know, when you are radically shifting a state into an entirely different color, there are going to be some eggs broken, I suppose.
	And there will still be these clinging of things.
	Now... Wait!
	Hold on!
	Time out!
	Time out!
	I will not let you say on this podcast...
	That the right wing of America is a minority group obsessed with keeping power and that they are reacting violently to losing power, Nick.
	That is just a step too far.
	I'm sorry.
	Hi, my name is Nick.
	Is your name Jared?
	Oh, okay.
	I'm just sorry, but we got to actually put to rights what this thing is, and that's exactly what this is.
	It is, right.
	So, you know, listen, it's just because a Democratic governor took over the state, which was really an amazing feat when you think about it.
	And just recently, you know, obviously, if you look at the map of like of Kentucky, it's like it's all red.
	You know, it's really a concentrated part.
	So we can't really be like for a moment there.
	You kind of think, oh, there's hope.
	You know, McConnell might get kicked out of there or whatever, you know, and we have, you know, some hope in the Senate races.
	But you're still going to have these issues and, you know, this is garden variety racism, you know, slavery, echoes of slavery, echoes of Civil War, you know.
	I don't know.
	I didn't see a General Lee flag though, did you?
	Well, first of all, before I weigh in on this, I have to clear the air.
	I am from the honorable state of Indiana.
	So, all of my reactions to Kentucky are colored.
	So, my apologies to the listeners.
	I am biased.
	Any of our listeners in Kentucky, thank you for listening.
	Our border wars rage true and the fire runs hot.
	I will say that this is weirdly reminiscent of everything that I've read in my research about reconstruction.
	For those who aren't familiar, this is a period in American history that we don't talk very much about because it's disgraceful and awful.
	After the Civil War, as we're trying to give rights to freed slaves, politicians in the South who tried to stick up for freed slaves and tried to stand up for what was right, it was not only lynchings of freed slaves, but it was also the people who tried to help them.
	There are echoes of this in this.
	I have to say, for anybody who hasn't watched yet, they should go watch the video of this effigy being hung, right?
	Number one, it's disturbing.
	And I think it's an accurate portrayal of what's going on in America.
	But it's also, it's a lynching.
	It's a legitimate lynching of this effigy.
	And the message couldn't be clearer, which is, if you are going to step in and help people other than us, we will kill you.
	And I mean, that's what we keep seeing, right?
	Armed militias going into state legislatures with all these people showing up at protests which basically, not basically, but carrying an AR-15 into one of these rallies is a clear terroristic signal.
	Do what we want or you will suffer consequences.
	Yeah, and I feel bad making a little bit of light of it, but I feel like it's, these people are so, it's almost like so cliché in a way, like, okay, you're going to do what you've learned, you know, this is sort of learned behavior from past, you know, their parents or whoever, their culture around them has developed over these years and decades and centuries.
	And it's like, I don't know, it doesn't surprise me, you know, it didn't even like, It didn't make, you know, it doesn't surprise me.
	Now, let's make it clear exactly what the issue is here, why they're putting, because this is what's a little bit different than your typical, you know, hanging an effigy or spectacles like this, is that, you know, they're really, it's the same thing we've seen in Michigan, where they simply want to open up the economy.
	I think, is that what we're focused on right now?
	With them?
	Yeah, sort of.
	I mean, everything's a metaphor now, right?
	I mean, right?
	I mean, that's what we're really talking about is, you know, if we're talking about quote-unquote reopen America, we're not just talking about reopen America.
	And by the way, I actually think that the joke you made about the General Lee is dead on.
	Because it's one of those things, again, I come from Indiana.
	I don't think I made a joke.
	Was it a joke?
	Okay.
	Hey, I'll take it.
	Well, right, right.
	Well, so I grew up in Indiana.
	I now live in Georgia, right?
	Which, Georgia is the hotbed of the Confederacy.
	I'll tell you though, I saw my fair share of Confederate flags in Indiana.
	And everyone's always like, well, Indiana was on the side of the Union.
	How did that happen?
	And what people need to understand is that the Confederacy was not just something that happened geographically.
	It was a state of mind, right?
	It's white supremacy in action and in pursuit.
	And You know, you go to Kentucky, you go to Indiana, you go throughout the Midwest.
	Even, I've heard from people I've talked about on Twitter, you see this in like Boston, Massachusetts.
	You know?
	You see this in Maine.
	You see it in New Hampshire.
	And it's a mindset.
	And we're sort of talking about re-open America, but it's a whole different reality that these people are living in.
	They literally, honestly believe that they are fighting a new, invisible civil war.
	So the short answer is yes, we're talking about Reopen America.
	The long answer is this is a much larger thing that we're talking about.
	Oh, I know.
	And someone even brought up Title IX as part of their argument for this.
	And then I got hurt because the next guy that responded, it sounded like he was adding to it.
	It turned out he was totally making a joke and being sarcastic, but I didn't get it.
	But the first guy, though, got it as far as Title IX goes.
	I was like, How can that pot?
	This is a thing that makes equality in colleges.
	It was passed in 72.
	How can this be an issue?
	So he goes, Oh, you better study your notes.
	It's in 2011.
	What happened to Title IX?
	And then this becomes a whole indictment of what Obama did to try and refine how they prosecuted sexual assault on campuses.
	You know what I mean?
	But it was like – but that just opens it up to like safe spaces on colleges.
	And what you're doing to kids – I think the whole rat's – what's the hornet's nest is being hit and opened by filling in whatever policy they want that they don't like to squeeze into this opportunity.
	By the way, I was – I got to look at it.
	I just kind of went cross-eyed for a quick moment trying to follow the logic.
	And actually, I think that's in part because recently for my research, I've been like diving into QAnon pandemic conspiracy theories.
	And to really try and keep up with the illogic of all of it is – Exhausting.
	You know, it's really, really exhausting and almost impossible to do.
	But it is.
	It's this, you know, I was posting about it the other day on Twitter.
	It's this ultimate reality that the GOP and NRA and the right-wing billionaires and news networks, Fox News, Have created, right?
	It's just this other world that doesn't have to make sense.
	It's a cult and it's literally anything that you want to imagine at the time.
	And I want to talk really fast about the Lee Greenwood part of this thing, which you saw the video, right?
	You saw that they were like blasting God Bless the USA.
	And actually, weirdly enough, I was like, I was going for a walk in my neighborhood not too long ago and I came across like a giant party of young people Who were obviously like having the party out of spite for quarantine orders and they were all wearing American flag garb and they were blasting over and over and over Lee Greenwood's God Bless the USA.
	I just want to talk real fast about that because that song is.
	Weird and you know this is a for those who don't know this is the I will gladly stand up next to you You know supporter still today This is a thing that became the theme song of like the first gulf war which was a complete and utter fabricated war That we were never in danger of losing.
	Meanwhile, everyone's tying, you know, yellow ribbons around trees.
	And meanwhile, we're also fighting a guy who's fighting us back with weapons that we gave him.
	Right?
	And, you know, intelligence that we gave him.
	And it's just this big, fabricated, fake, alternate reality.
	And these people are stuck in it.
	And I mean, unfortunately, it's our neighbors.
	It's the people we live among.
	Well, a couple different things there.
	I mean, obviously, the overwhelming support that we feel compelled to give to these war efforts is a direct response to Vietnam and how we didn't treat, you know, when we talked about that in the last episode, we didn't treat the military and the veterans coming back properly.
	And that's the myth around it.
	But yeah.
	So I think that's part of the motivation.
	Like, wait, we really got to rally behind our troops this time because we can't let that happen again.
	But what makes me worried is that we've seen the results of extreme nationalism and what happens when that takes hold to the point, especially if you're getting stuck in a moment of, like, depression, like we are sort of moving in towards now.
	And, you know, cut to 1930s Germany was the same exact way.
	And so that's what always gives me some pause, because what I feel like is, you know, What we're looking for in supporting America and believing in America is that notion of the progress that we're trying to always attain and move towards, probably knowing we're never going to get to anything perfect.
	It's never going to be a perfect democracy where everyone's happy, but we have these sort of goals and these ideas that we try to adhere to.
	And I think that when you bring in the nationalism and you bring in like Lee Greenwood and those things, you kind of obliterate that perspective, right?
	And you just become what we have.
	You've got people hanging governors in effigy.
	I just love, by the way, that we brought in Lee Greenwood.
	Just this, you know, patriotic, kind of dopey singer.
	And now all of a sudden he's like... Wait, you can't tell me that he was like, gosh, I have to pay my mortgage for the next, like, 50 years.
	I'm going to write a song about... I mean, come on, right?
	Well, and it was released in 1984.
	It's not a coincidence that it came along with Reagan.
	You know, it's American revivalism, all of it.
	I'll say a couple of things.
	But then it found its purchase, of course.
	Wait, look at you ignoring the discography of Lee Greenwood.
	It's the phone, my man!
	You look it up.
	It's a personal computer.
	It tells you what you need.
	But I'll say, Lee Greenwood.
	I love that we ended up talking about Lee Greenwood today.
	That just makes my heart just pound.
	Because I'll tell you, when I was a kid, when I was a part of the cult of the Shining City, this like evangelical white identity nationalism, Man, that song pumped me up, Nick.
	Wow.
	Because there's a reason it's God Bless the USA.
	Because God loves the USA.
	We're God's chosen nation, right?
	Man, I used to get pumped for that song.
	But the whole part of this, and I'll just throw this out.
	We were talking about this before we started taping.
	My grandfather was a veteran, like a decorated veteran, right?
	You know how I support the troops?
	I don't want to send them into wars that they don't need to fight.
	Right?
	That's how I support them.
	Like, I look at them, and by the way, we're taping this on Memorial Day, so, you know, thank you for everyone who's served and given.
	By the way, we're not going to do all caps, HAPPY MEMORIAL DAY.
	We are not!
	That is insane!
	Like Trump tweets.
	Right!
	And by the way, that's the other thing.
	This is what gets you to Donald Trump, who wants to hold military parades.
	You know what I mean?
	And, like, dress up in a uniform and, you know, probably hug an eagle and, you know, fly off into a fireworks ceremony.
	That's garbage, and that's like a really, really insane way to look at what all this is about.
	You're supposed to fight a war to make the world safe for a democracy, right?
	You're supposed to fight wars so you don't have to fight more wars.
	You're supposed to take care of fascism, in which, by the way, you brought up 1930s fascism in Germany during the Depression.
	We had the exact same thing in America in the 1930s.
	We had just the exact same movement rising up here and we have to talk about that too.
	But you fight wars to stop fascism so you can have shared society.
	Right?
	So you can have a free and open society.
	Now all of a sudden we have these assholes lynching effigies of democratically elected governors.
	Right?
	We have assholes storming into state legislatures with AR-15s, suspending votes and sessions, right?
	That's not what people went to war for.
	That's war at home.
	And you go to war to make sure that war isn't at home.
	And that's what pisses me off.
	It's like watching this thing spiral out of control that was supposed to have been taken care of, but it obviously hasn't been.
	Well, I'm really glad that you brought up the city on a shining hill because I was thinking about this earlier this week, thinking, okay, we're against that and what that stands for and how Reagan tried to create this myth, but what is it then?
	What are we trying to create here?
	What should the United States stand for?
	What should it be?
	What is the image that we're supposed to, you know, get behind and support?
	Well, okay, so I was having this thing.
	I had to go out for a family emergency today.
	Out in the world.
	Right, which sounds so foreboding.
	I wish we had special effects for that.
	I had to go into the world, Nick.
	And you know what pisses me off?
	It's the dumb, banal American BS.
	It's like people right now are protesting to go into gyms in strip malls.
	They're protesting to go into subways.
	They're protesting to go get their hair cut at sports clips.
	You know what I mean?
	I brought up Red Lobster.
	They want to go into Red Lobster and they're screaming at employees to like bring them in and not make them wear a mask.
	And it's like... A pottery barn.
	A pottery barn.
	And America is technically like the message in the propaganda is we're supposed to be about liberty and freedom but also about the best hope of humankind.
	I would love if America was about, you know what, we live the best kind of life and we take care of each other.
	But everybody else just wants, because of Reagan, which you brought up, it's all about I need to accumulate as much as humanly possible and screw everybody else, and that's the American way.
	And meanwhile, I'm going to pull the cord on a coal roller on my giant pickup truck and just shoot out a massive thing of carbon.
	You know?
	Which is just such a bastardization of what this country is supposed to be as opposed to what it is.
	Well, so it sounds like we need to take the inauguration speech of JFK and mash it together with the I Have a Dream speech from Martin Luther King and like that maybe is what we lost.
	That should be the direction we should be going then, it sounds like.
	Right?
	Man, I... Do you... Okay, so if I said to you... And by the way, we started this... How long ago did we start this podcast?
	We're almost at episode 50.
	Is that true?
	So it's not like 50 weeks, but it's probably 25 weeks.
	Wow!
	I think technically this is like a long-running podcast at this point.
	So when we started this thing... I'll tell you when we started it as you speak.
	I'll look it up.
	We started talking about this and what the message and focus of America is.
	So I'll say to you, Nick, and by the way, you have You have a belief in America.
	You have a belief in this country and its possibilities and what it can do.
	What would you say America is about right now?
	What's its mission?
	What's its purpose?
	Today on Memorial Day 2020, what is the purpose of America?
	It sounds to me it's like just to have a good time and sort of ignore the fact that we're a community.
	Like, you know, just... Does that make sense?
	It's really... Isn't that gross?
	You're right.
	You're 100% right.
	Here's what I'm picturing when you ask me that.
	What are we about right now?
	I'm thinking about the Ozarks and the images we're seeing now of people.
	By the way, I don't... Is there... Maybe I'm a frickin' old guy on a lawn and I don't remember what it was like to be fun in my 20s, but I'm watching people standing in waist-deep water in a bar, like in these tables in the water, like, you know, your bar.
	Standing around just drinking in that setting and it's like, I don't know.
	It's like the water is half filled with piss and the other half is alcohol and there may be some lake water in there.
	I don't get it.
	I just don't know why that's fun and why that has to be this, you know, notion of like, okay, this is what we're demanding to be able to do.
	And it's frightening.
	It's frightening because you're talking about the closest of quarters and there's going to be COVID there.
	Boardwalks are filled.
	I mean, that's what I'm seeing.
	That's my image right now.
	I was watching a movie the other night, and I'm sure our listeners have done this too, but you just see, like, restaurants.
	Do you know what I mean?
	And, like, now when you watch it, you just see germs jumping from one table to the next, and you just want to scream at everybody.
	Get away.
	You have to get away.
	I'm watching Dirty Dozen today, and Telly Sabalas is in the watchtower.
	He's a crazy guy in this movie, and he touches his face for a second, and I'm like, no!
	Don't do that!
	Like, that's where I'm at now, you know?
	Well, and so what you just said, like, listen, I'm not going to lie and say that I never went to Florida when I was young and I never did, you know, dumb stuff and all of that.
	But you're right.
	That, for whatever reason, has become the definition of America, which is I don't have to question what I do.
	Right?
	Like, you take care of yourself and I'll take care of myself.
	And the old, um, what's that old quote?
	It's the Thomas Jefferson thing.
	Freedom extends from the tip of my nose to the tip of yours.
	Well, guess what extends from the tip of my nose to the tip of yours?
	Coronavirus.
	Right?
	And that is one of those things.
	And I look at it, like that video you're talking about the Ozarks.
	I just look at that and I'm like, God, I don't want to do that.
	But do you know what I want to do, Nick?
	And I have to mess with the programming in my head.
	I just, like today, I had to run out and deal with this thing.
	I stopped at a gas station to get some gas because I had to get home, right?
	And I was like, what a tragedy it is that right now I can't go into that gas station and get a terrible gas station sandwich.
	Do you know what I mean?
	Like, I was just like, I could!
	But why would I?
	Right?
	Like, why would I compromise myself?
	And like, it's the dumb stuff that I would want to do.
	Like, going into a store and not buying anything and walking around.
	And everything that we're talking about right now is about capitalist exchanging of currency.
	Right?
	It's, I should be able to go spend my money the way I want to spend it.
	Well, what a garbage way to look at a country.
	Why is that a country?
	That's not a country.
	Why shouldn't we be making each other's lives better and taking care of one another?
	So, it's clear to you that all this anger and the grandstanding and all these things they're doing is motivated by them wanting to go out and spend their money and do stuff like that versus I need my job back.
	Is that the motivation?
	Because it feels that way, but I want to make sure that we're on the same page on that one.
	I, you know, that's an interesting thing because I want people to think about America, particularly post-Reagan and, you know, also post-Trump, however you want to look at it.
	The idea that you have money is the idea of freedom, right?
	Post-Reagan, it's the idea that freedom is like a certain amount of money.
	And like, I have enough money that I can go do this.
	How dare you make me not able to do this?
	Don't you see that I have the money to spend right now?
	And then there's other people on the other side that are like, you know, we had a conversation about this.
	I want to say it was last week.
	And it's like, no, the destitute aren't out there protesting.
	Right, the destitute are in their essential jobs or they're at home afraid to spend any money, but it's the idea that money equals freedom, which is the bastardization that America is done with the idea of freedom.
	Wow yes I mean we can end the podcast right there because that's that's about the best point we're gonna make you're gonna make I think the whole time that that is really really good and it kind of just reminds me of the failing New York Times had an article yesterday where they actually you know they did the numbers because I think we're I'm starting to understand a little bit more you know I'm always the guy who's trying to like get into the other side's brain if
	Okay, here's what they said, because here's the thing, the numbers show that Democratic areas are hit infinitely harder from COVID than Republican.
	And that all of a sudden makes a lot of sense to me.
	Here's what they said.
	I'll read it really quickly.
	a quote a quick um couple sentences the democrats are far more likely to live in counties where the virus has ravaged the community while republicans are more likely to live in counties that have been relatively unscathed by the illness though they are paying an economic price counties won by president trump in 2016 have reported just 27 of the virus infections and 20 21 of the deaths even though 45 of americans live in these communities uh That's what they found.
	So, to me, it's like, okay, nobody I can see within the whole 20-mile radius of me is dying or getting sick, but they're shutting down all the business around me.
	That's what they're feeling.
	That's the motivation here.
	It's like, how can that be?
	And I guess I could follow that train of thought up to a degree.
	Well, so, that thing was really misleading.
	So, Democrats live in urban areas.
	Right.
	Right, where transmission is more likely, right?
	And also, there are more Democrats than Republicans in this country.
	That's the other thing nobody likes to talk about because the New York Times and other places like to consider this a 50-50 split.
	Or the really famous thing that they bring out during an election is that it's like a Oh god.
	45-45-10.
	45 Democrat, 45 Republican, 10% Independent.
	That's the racehorse philosophy.
	But it's not true.
	Democrats outnumber Republicans by a large percentage.
	And by the way, I'm not even saying that as a Democrat.
	I'm not a Democrat.
	I'm an Independent.
	So put me wherever you want.
	By the way, I think the Independents are the biggest group.
	Who even knows anymore, right?
	Like, really, what are labels?
	Because, are Democrats left?
	Are Republicans right?
	I don't know.
	You're just Jared.
	I'm just, I'm me, which by the way puts me firmly in the camp of people who reject political labels, but that's, you know, neither here nor there.
	I'm Spartacus.
	Well, and I have to throw this out there.
	That's also throwing out a really false dichotomy.
	This is one of the biggest problems of the modern moment.
	The question doesn't have to be, do we not reopen America, or do we reopen America?
	Those are two false choices.
	And by the way, all of this is designed to keep us from talking about actual financial reform.
	Our system doesn't work at all.
	Like, I mean, I'm sorry, but Jeff Bezos is getting ready to become a trillionaire.
	America's billionaires have made, I believe, half a trillion dollars over the course of this pandemic, right?
	It's a problem.
	It doesn't work.
	We should be having a discussion about how to make sure that people can survive through the pandemic, as opposed to being like, get to your job.
	Which, I don't know if you saw, right before we started podcasting, somebody in the Trump administration gave an interview, I believe it was on CNN, and he was like, he was talking about the economy, and he said, And it's like, first of all, no they don't.
	Second of all, human capital stock.
	Like, imagine saying that with a straight face and that gives up the whole game, right?
	They're just like, oh, these are numbers to move around on a board.
	We should be having a discussion about how to weather this financially as opposed to whether we reopen or not.
	You know what I miss?
	I tweeted this yesterday.
	I miss baseball, Nick.
	I miss basketball.
	I miss going out.
	I miss seeing my friends.
	I miss seeing my loved ones.
	I want America to reopen back up.
	But just because I don't think it's safe to do it yet doesn't mean that I'm somehow or another a traitor.
	Do you consider yourself a traitor?
	Well, no, but I know I'd probably be considered... I don't know what I'd be considered at this point.
	Some pinko, commie, bastard kind of guy by the other side.
	But no, I agree.
	I feel like that's what's so strange about and nefarious about the other side, right?
	Like, listen, everyone has their own gripes.
	There are legitimate beefs on the other side about us or about whatever, but the bottom line is it's like the advocacy on the right at this point is death.
	Right it is death it is we're gonna have to suffer some casualties In order to like make another couple dollars when we've seen several countries in Europe Germany Gosh, I want to say it might be France as well But they were the ones who were able to stabilize their economy because they put the money in the proper places mainly in the actual employees Pockets so they don't get fired Wait, when you say employer, are you talking about human capital stock?
	Yes, the stock are getting fed.
	Which, by the way, is White House advisor Kevin Hassett, who said, and I quote, Yeah.
	Imagine going home after saying that and being like, good job today, man.
	Looking in the mirror and being like, good job, champ.
	Yeah.
	And people will say, oh, they're not nefarious.
	They're just trying to get a company, the economy open, whatever.
	OK.
	Do you realize McConnell called the Sanders back in to vote on some stuff, right?
	You know what they're voting on, right?
	Not any more money for anybody.
	Do you know what they're voting on?
	Yeah, they're going to vote on to prevent people from being able to sue their employers if they get sick from COVID-19.
	Which, by the way, do you know who's involved in that?
	People like myself who are going to have to go back and teach classes in August because people want college football.
	Okay, it's that closely tied.
	Which is insane.
	Which, by the way, I mean, like, if you really want to go down this route, this shows us what the entire problem is.
	Should the nation's colleges be financially dependent on unpaid labor by college athletes?
	No, they shouldn't.
	And which, by the way, you're an NBA guy.
	Does the NBA effectively have a minor league?
	They do, but they're pulling them away.
	If you've noticed, the G League, they're creating a new team in LA for high schoolers who don't want to go.
	But real fast, do they have an actual minor league system?
	They sort of do.
	They sort of do.
	But most people go to college, right?
	And then they go in, right?
	The G League is for people who aren't in college.
	Major League Baseball has like a really... And by the way, I'm sorry to get inside baseball and all this, but people need to hear this.
	This is how this shit works.
	So, Major League Baseball has a robust minor league system, right?
	All over the country, and like, chances are we have listeners who go to minor league baseball games, right?
	People who are getting paid who could otherwise be playing baseball in college, but they're in a minor league system.
	The NFL does not have a minor league system.
	Right.
	Right?
	They completely, uh, they, for, and it's insane that they do it, they completely rely on colleges.
	Which are supposed to be about educating people and higher education and instead like that whole idea and the only reason I bring this up and this isn't a sports conversation.
	This is an American conversation.
	This is what people do.
	They will offload costs no matter what to human capital stock.
	Right?
	And they just move things around and they're like, oh, that profit's great.
	And that's one of the problems in this country.
	It goes back to what you said.
	We're not interested in taking care of each other.
	We're not interested in having a society that is good for each other.
	We're interested in exploiting people in any way, shape, or form that we possibly can.
	I would be remiss if I didn't mention that the NCAA did rule that players can make money off their likeness or that's going to become a thing but then again it's only a minor fraction of players because no one's gonna you know want to buy a t-shirt with a you know the hundredth guy on a you know Georgia's football team you know t-shirt so but you are right and it is it's been a slow steady and I would argue insidious
	There's a path down to where we are now, where we've lost sight of like, you know, and we talk about this all the time, maybe ad nauseum, about how Reagan, probably the guy that began this, we've lost sight of what, okay, which brings us back to my question then, which is what is America?
	What does it stand for?
	And we've lost sight of the fact that we're a community.
	I think that's really what it is to me.
	We are all part of the community.
	We're all brothers and sisters here.
	All should be, you know, tied together, helping each other, and we don't feel that way.
	Oh, you pinko commie bastard.
	I want to share with you a quote today that ground my gears, Nick, but I think it also shows what we're talking about.
	This is from Larry Summers, who by the way, for people who aren't aware, this is like, you know, formerly of the World Bank.
	He was in the Clinton administration.
	He advised Obama during the financial crisis.
	You know, all these things.
	So he gave an interview the other day.
	And a reminder, how many people are unemployed right now, Nick?
	Oh, gosh.
	I wrote it down.
	Let me see if I have it here.
	38 million?
	38 million, maybe more.
	And Larry Summers, by the way, when talking about economic reform or economic assistance, right?
	This financial genius who, by the way, has had a hand in like the major economic policy over the past couple of decades.
	He's one of the engineers of how all of this works.
	He said, For every non-employed middle-aged man who's learning to play the harp or to appreciate the impressionist, there are a hundred who are drinking beer, playing video games, and watching 10 hours of TV a day.
	Now, the message of that Is that there are some people who work hard, but for everyone, there's 10 who are not interested in working hard.
	And let me tell you what, they deserve to be unemployed and they deserve to be destitute.
	And that's just who they are, right?
	You can't train them.
	You can't, you can't encourage them.
	You can't inspire them.
	So the idea, what you just said about taking care of each other, that, that mindset, that Ragonian mindset is that some people deserve to starve.
	And so they're going to starve and they're going to suffer because they are inherently wrong.
	And then you get into the cult of the Shining City and it's like, yeah, no, that's God's wrath.
	The fact that they're starving and they're economically challenged.
	It's all a fraud.
	It's a cruel, cruel fraud.
	And I mean, that stuff just shows you how bad it actually is.
	I mean, the indicative of the picture that went viral on Twitter, I'm sure you saw, of a little girl holding a sign with her parents behind her that said, you know, something like, get rid of your masks.
	God will protect you.
	And that took me back to my childhood, Nick.
	What?
	That's your childhood?
	Right.
	That's my childhood.
	So, and that's the kind of indoctrination that we're battling against.
	Here's the thing, like, when I grew up, I'm a little bit older than you, like, it was, like, being green and protecting the environment was kind of built in to everything that we were subjected to as kids in the 70s.
	Wait, Nick, do you, um, I wonder if you could check this fact for... Oh yeah, who was president then?
	Wait.
	Who was it who created the Environmental Protection Agency?
	You know, some guy that, like, you know... A raging liberal!
	If not for just a botched, you know, two-bit rake-in, he would have been, you know... Yeah, Richard Nixon!
	We didn't even say... The bigger one is not even... OSHA and EPA is another one I'm forgetting.
	Real fast, let's even go deeper because I assume that that is just an anomaly.
	- Who was the president who founded all of the national parks and conservation in the modern sense?
	That's right, it was Republican Teddy Roosevelt.
	Because the Republican party was built around what you would call quote unquote conservatism, and they don't actually have beliefs anymore.
	They're not actually conservatives.
	They don't actually have any ideology beyond power and profit and that's it. - Yeah, you know what's funny is that I think that there's a pushback also from, obviously there's a pushback.
	We don't... the hippies from the counterculture 60s don't exist anymore, right?
	Where are they to be found?
	They did their part, I suppose.
	That may be how they feel now because they're in their 70s and 80s at this point.
	But that whole mindset seems to be obliterated under the weight of commerce and commercialism and 80s and all those things that put it down.
	And I think we've rebounded so far from what those values taught us, which were really important at the time, that it's like that.
	That's what I'm looking for.
	Where are these marches?
	Where are this outrage?
	And it's like it's on Twitter a little bit, right?
	Or you might see it on people come on some of these shows.
	But like, that's what I feel like we're missing.
	It felt like back then when you read about it and discuss it and study it, I'm obviously too young to have felt it, was that they believe that you could change things.
	And it felt like they did.
	And I think, I argue that they did change things.
	So I was writing about this in my new book, American Rule, How a Nation Conquered the World and Failed Its People.
	Sorry, I have to do it.
	It's our podcast.
	I have to do it.
	I have to do it.
	I have to do it right out there.
	So I was doing research on this stuff, and what I found was that a lot of the people you're talking about, the ones who wanted to, like, you know, establish change in America, some of them were just like, well, change is never going to happen, so now I'm going to become a stockbroker.
	Wealthy.
	The next group was a group that, like Bill Clinton, was like, well, the only way to establish power is to beat them with their own tricks.
	And so, you know, you get in the game and you do the same things.
	And this is one of the reasons why, you know, Clintonism is a lot like Reaganism.
	It just so happens to have some empathy and humanity to it.
	The third that I found, which was really weird, is that a lot of these people actually ended up investing in technology.
	They ended up believing in the idea that cyberspace would become a world where they could escape to to get away from the terrestrial world, right?
	A lot of them turned into libertarians who started working for all of these tech companies and they believed that they could find You know freedom in cyberspace and they could use algorithms to make the world better.
	Well the problem is that there was a lot of money to be made in cyberspace and you know the money flooded in and and we have now seen what big tech can do and how dangerous big tech is.
	So you're right there there is that old idea that used to be there but now what we're watching and this is unfortunate we've talked about this ad nauseum on this podcast We are now living in a generation where we have people like Donald Trump who are intentionally grinding away at our will, right?
	They're making us feel as if there's no way out.
	There's no hope whatsoever.
	And so I should just give up, right?
	I should just be apathetic and not care.
	And the antidote to that is caring.
	The antidote to that is fighting back and not letting them grind down your will.
	Okay.
	I feel like it's not enough.
	I think the caring is not enough.
	I'm into spectacle, I suppose.
	So is Trump.
	He likes the spectacle, and I feel like... And here's the thing.
	We know that it's getting to him, right?
	You watch his unhinged Twitter rants, especially more recently.
	It's really concerning.
	And every other thing that we see about him is evidence of dementia, really.
	Even the way he stands.
	And he can't... I don't know if you saw it today, but he was trying to stand in My guess, Nick, I don't know if you saw, but he's off the hydroxy.
	So I assume he's probably suffering withdrawals from that, you know, usage of hydroxychloroquine that he totally was taking and wasn't lying about whatsoever.
	And, you know, we know that because the White House physicians would not confirm He was actually taking it, but I'm sure I'm sure it's a withdrawal Yeah, and that in that he he didn't excitedly announced it taking it when you know when he started taking it according to him You know you would have thought oh I would have I would have told everybody the day I started taking it saying this is great But you know off the cuff two weeks later
	And I want to throw out there, Nick, I again, I don't like it when you disparage our God Emperor President, who is in such good mental health right now that he has just repeatedly started claiming that Joe Scarborough, a former representative and host on MSNBC, murdered a woman.
	Continually claiming that he murdered a woman, which, by the way, we've talked about this on this podcast.
	If you had a relative who is doing the stuff that Donald Trump is doing, and retweeting the accounts, I mean it's constantly queuing on, right?
	It's just constant conspiracy stuff.
	If you had a relative doing this stuff, you would sit down and have a family conversation with this person.
	You would do a health check on this person.
	Right.
	Intervention.
	You would have to.
	Just in case anyone hasn't been paying attention, Joe Scarborough was not even in Florida at the time.
	So let's just put that out there.
	Does that spark the whole thing?
	Nick, you liberal pinko commie bastard shill.
	Look at you enabling the New World Order.
	I'm sorry, I'm a traditionalist.
	I like to be in the same area of the person I'm going to murder.
	I don't know, it's just how I work.
	What a lame stream media take this is.
	So, but here's the thing.
	We have two choices.
	Either he believes it, and he's accusing him, or he doesn't believe it, but he knows it's like some sort of distraction or whatever.
	No, third choice.
	Third choice, he doesn't know either way.
	Yes, okay.
	And he's just opening his mouth and saying things.
	Which I think is pretty accurate for what's happening.
	Yeah, I would think that's accurate for everything that's going on.
	He's just saying things.
	And by the way, most of the administration is the same way.
	They're just sort of saying things and, you know, watching.
	They have good eyes.
	They can watch for the reaction, right?
	And as soon as they get any kind of reaction, then they could...
	Harp on that for a little while, right?
	Obamagate.
	Yeah.
	You know, I don't think it has as much legs as I thought it did.
	I was really, you know what, and that's the residual three and a half straight days of watching this stuff.
	It really had me worried.
	I'm not worried now, right?
	I don't think I'm worried about Obamagate.
	It doesn't tell me it's got legs.
	Well, you're not paying attention to where it's at.
	I mean, it's still got legs on Fox News and OANN.
	I mean, the other day they basically asked the reporter from OANN to come up and give a presentation.
	I mean, they're not even hiding it.
	By the way, for anyone who hasn't listened to the episode yet, where Nick listened to days worth of right-wing media, go rectify that.
	That is incredible, the information you came back.
	Predicted everything that was going to happen, but now you're like, I don't know, maybe I was brainwashed.
	Maybe a little bit.
	Maybe a little bit.
	That was on the Ides of May.
	Is that what we call that?
	May 15th?
	That sounds about right.
	That was incredible podcasting.
	As your friend, I can't let you do it.
	I was in it.
	So I was, you know, I didn't even know what was going on.
	I was just trying to answer your questions and whatever.
	But yeah, I mean, it was intense.
	I'm going to do it again.
	I mean, I think I have to do it again.
	I always feel like I heard the sirens calling.
	As your friend, I can't let you do it.
	I know.
	I'm sorry.
	Yeah, because I think I should do it again and do it for longer.
	Only because I think the biggest fascination I had with all that was, I was like, what am I going to miss?
	What was actually going on that they were never reporting at all?
	The big one was just the Supreme Court doing the taxes hearing, which didn't really reveal too much at the time yet anyway.
	But, you know, that's really where you get it.
	And we talked about this before we started recording.
	It's like, the worry you have about the people on that side who digest this information is, It just seems like as soon as that nugget gets into their head, it's completely solidified in hardened cement, and it's never going to go away once it's seen.
	And there's no rational thought or self-reflection.
	So I think it's the self-reflection that we're missing here, right?
	Which is a snowflake, a non-masculine characteristic, right?
	To reflect on yourself and whether you did something properly or not.
	And that's another part of the root of what's going on here.
	You've got to double, triple, quadruple down in the face of this stuff because you can't admit that you were wrong.
	I feel like you're transitioning into something there and I enjoyed it.
	I enjoyed what you just did there that our listeners aren't aware just happened.
	I thought we were pretty good with the segues, but you know.
	I will say real fast on that topic.
	So it's somebody like Sean Hannity.
	I actually watched a clip of Sean Hannity last night.
	Not his show last night, but it just came across my feed and I laughed.
	Oh my god, I got such a kick out of it.
	First of all, Hannity is just as dumb as a brick.
	I mean, just that dude has no extra level to him whatsoever.
	And he's so pathetic.
	I don't know if you saw it, but he got on with Dana White, the president and owner of UFC.
	And they sent Dana White, the UFC president, footage of Sean Hannity like training.
	I didn't see this.
	And he wanted so badly for Dana White to be like, oh my god, Sean Hannity, you're such a badass.
	And Dana White's like, yeah, it's good that you're active, Sean.
	Yeah, right.
	He's so pathetic and like he's always throwing a football.
	And the other day he was also on there and he had like five lapel pins, including like the Punisher fascist logo with like the American flag on it.
	Which is all about, you know, fascist chic.
	I mean, and it's just like this sad head of hair that has never once actually absorbed any information over his many years on television.
	He's so sad, Nick.
	He's such a pathetic little worm of a man.
	I think the next band I'm in will be called Sad Head of Hair.
	Sad Head of Hair.
	I mean, wonderful head of hair.
	I mean, just an amazing head of hair.
	But, you know, it's just there's nothing holding it on.
	There's just nothing going on under that hair.
	It's just id.
	Did I ever tell you?
	Yeah.
	I don't know if I've told you this and maybe, did I tell the story on the podcast about how Sean Hannity hung up on me on the radio years ago?
	No, that sounds interesting.
	Okay, let me tell a quick little aside, and then we'll get into business, and then we'll bring this plan in for Atlantic.
	So back in 2008, before the election, I was listening to Sean Hannity, because I was a glutton for punishment, on like SiriusXM or something.
	And he's like, call in now if you can give me one achievement that Barack Obama has had in the Senate.
	And I, you know, I had paid attention to Obama had worked on proliferation, like nuclear proliferation, with my senator in Indiana, Dick Lugar.
	And so I called in to Sean Hannity, I was like, hi Sean, I just want to let you know that Obama worked on nuclear proliferation.
	He hung up on me.
	And then I was like, what just happened?
	I turned up the radio and it was on a couple seconds delay.
	And Sean Hannity talked for five minutes and he's like, that was obviously an Obama campaign staffer.
	There's a conspiracy to get on the lines right now and put forward misinformation.
	And I have laughed about that for years.
	That dude, again, a head of hair, nothing underneath it.
	At all.
	That's almost as good as my story of calling in as a 12-year-old to Corey Hart who was on WLS-FM in Chicago and ultimately ended up singing the Canadian National Anthem alongside him live.
	We have to unpack that at some point because that's incredible.
	All this stuff has to be somewhere that nobody will ever listen to.
	That was my experience calling in on a radio show.
	We have to unpack that at some point because that's incredible.
	Could you believe – they must have that.
	That must be a tape somewhere.
	It's got to – all this stuff has to be somewhere that nobody will ever listen to.
	Radio gold, Nick.
	Radio gold.
	Absolutely.
	So – but yes, I think it's like self-reflection is a really important key here, which I also think opens up what we're missing for what we're talking about for the country itself, right?
	Like, you know, if you don't want to be able to sort of look back and see like what your mistakes and what you've done in the past and you're going to continue to repeat them like we keep doing here, and that's probably why the Republicans keep nominating such horrible candidates.
	You know, if you look at the last several they've had, George W. is going to be one of the worst presidents we've ever had until Trump came along.
	And then you compare it to, like, seriously, compare it to Obama, compare it to Clinton, compare it to even Carter, you know, it's not even close.
	And yet, I don't know how that characteristic in human people could have gotten obliterated so much across such a wide swath of people in this country.
	Well, listen, this is a hard truth that we need to come to.
	America is in the grip of a mental health crisis.
	That's really what it is.
	I mean, it's not an oversimplification.
	We have a group of people who are living in their own delusional reality, right?
	And we have with Donald Trump an entire base of people who, you know, Trump appeals to them because he tells them, no, everyone else is wrong and you are right.
	Build a wall around your brain.
	Right.
	And that's why it's a cult.
	It's about identity and it's about not having to look in the mirror and rethink who you are and what you've done.
	And so we have a lot of Americans, unfortunately, who are not only misinformed, but they're in a toxic relationship with an entire party.
	And a lot of them are based in like toxic white, whitehood.
	They're based in toxic masculinity, which I assume we should have a talk about and, uh, and, you know, go from there.
	But it is, it's a mental health crisis.
	Well, it's funny you mention that.
	I'm glad you brought that up.
	I'm going to get a drink here.
	I'm just going to get a drink here.
	If you haven't been paying attention, he's on MSNBC and he's a never-Trumper.
	He's a firmly Republican, firmly conservative person.
	He's a pedantic bore is what he is.
	You know what his biggest problem I have with him is that he doesn't like Led Zeppelin.
	And so, but nonetheless, see I have a soft spot for those guys.
	Who else is in that?
	It's Steve Schmidt and it's Rick Wilson.
	I like those guys because A. they're kind of snarky and B. they were completely dyed in the wool conservatives who have now seen how bad Trump is and want him out.
	But Tom Nichols seemed mystified by the notion that these manly men, these traditional Stoic tough guys want to support Trump and in so doing are indicating that they believe that Trump is just like them.
	That tough guy.
	And he doesn't understand and he spent a whole article trying to explain why Trump is anything but this, you know, tough guy.
	Now, of course, we can all agree on that part of the article, right?
	Trump doesn't embody any of these whatever virtues he's trying to describe, but You got on Twitter and called him out on it a little bit.
	On the Twitter?
	On the Twitter.com?
	Yes.
	What a website, huh?
	What a website.
	How can it be free?
	You know, we had some back and forth.
	It was like the other parents fighting.
	And so I wanted to ask you a little bit about that and what made you want to call him out.
	And it was pretty vociferous in your calling out of him.
	Well, I'll start with this.
	Number one, never-trimpers are important.
	We need people who are Republicans or former Republicans to come out and say that this is wrong.
	That's a very important thing.
	And by the way, it's very brave.
	Although there are financial incentives to doing it, right?
	Because suddenly you're held up as a savior among the liberal class and suddenly like they'll buy your books and they'll retweet you and follow you because it's somebody came over from the other side of the trench, right?
	Okay, so there is a financial incentive to that.
	Is Mitt Romney listening?
	Yeah, he could not be reached for comment.
	So it's very, very important to have Never Trumpers, but I'm also very wary of them trying to rewrite history because these people were part of the Republican Party that created the situation that led to Trump.
	So when they start whitewashing history and their part in it, I started getting a little not feeling great about it, right?
	Also on that note, and I said this to you, I think the other day, Watching their ads against Trump, I understand that they are effective, but those ads are the exact type of ads that Republicans were using against us that those people wrote and deployed.
	The dark arts, if you will, for years.
	I feel weird that they're going against Trump and obviously effective, but we should also push back against all that.
	It's neither here nor there.
	So Tom Nichols writes this article for The Atlantic, one of the magazines of record, and he basically says, and he does this.
	Bullshit thing and you know it and I know it it's like when I was younger men had strong handshakes and they would dot their brows with a handkerchief and eat meat and they didn't talk much but they were proud and it's this like bullshit masculinity mythology and and so here's the other thing by the way so Tom Nichols what's his famous book that he's most well known for?
	The Death of Expertise.
	Which is all about how we question experts.
	Right?
	So this guy gets in his article and he's doing this, like, you know, revisionism of masculinity.
	And I wrote a book about masculinity.
	Like, I did the research, man.
	I put in the time, right?
	So, technically, I think I'm an expert.
	And so, like, I say, no, man, you're wrong about this.
	Maybe I was ruder than that because I came in hot.
	But he's just like, no, you're wrong.
	And I'm like, you don't see how ridiculous this is that you are the author of depth of expertise and you're now questioning an expert?
	But that's neither here nor there.
	Dude, it's just this article that doesn't get to the point, which is that masculinity is a complete mythology.
	It's a complete lie.
	All men are performing gender.
	So when men, who he's talking about, tough men, manly men, look at Donald Trump, they actually see themselves because Trump is performing masculinity.
	That's why he's cruel.
	That's why he's a misogynist.
	That's why he brags about his planes and his money and all the women that he has sex with.
	And by the way, I don't know if you have him in your family.
	I'm sure listeners have him in their family.
	I have him in mine.
	Boastful, insecure men are everywhere.
	There's a reason why they need big trucks, Nick.
	There's a reason why they need guns.
	There's a reason why they brag about their sexual exploits in locker room talk.
	They're over-performing.
	And yes, does Donald Trump wear makeup?
	Yes, he does.
	And does, is he out of shape?
	Is he, you know, did he ever serve in the military?
	No.
	But he's the exact same as them.
	They recognize themselves in Trump.
	And that's what that article got wrong.
	And it just perpetuates this dumbass myth of masculinity that needs to go away.
	Like, you can be masculine, but that doesn't mean that you have to be, like, strong and st- With a strong handshake.
	And when Dad went to the factory, he didn't tell me he loved me, but he could, I could tell by his blood.
	Like, it's such garbage.
	The guy that can show the back of his hand to his woman.
	Right.
	Dad didn't tell anybody he cared about him, but a strong word here would do it.
	It's like, what are we doing here?
	You know what I mean?
	It's such bullshit.
	And it just needs to go away.
	And that article, I'm so pissed off that it showed up in like a magazine of record and a person who should have known better just continued to whitewash history.
	It's just straight garbage.
	We should just reject it.
	I hear you.
	I think the biggest fear is that it continues to foment this notion, and people are continuing to want to do it.
	Now, there's a reason why we don't have John Wayne anymore.
	Those movies don't really exist.
	I can't even think right now of the movie stars that even embodied that, because that's clearly where the country was able to propagate this notion.
	But that's why we have Trump!
	It's because everybody wants to say that America has got weak, right?
	It's so like, okay, so if you had to name the person that is that, it's either The Rock...
	Or like a Chris Evans' Captain America, right?
	Meanwhile, both of them get on their social media and they're like, hey guys, respect women and be decent to people.
	And Trump sees that and he's like, we need more George Pattons who would beat up people with PTSD, whatever happened to America?
	And it's such bullshit, it just continues that myth that created that stuff in the first place.
	And militarism, and rape culture, and just the most bullshit parts of America.
	Right.
	Well, and then there comes that Title IX complaint again, too, because it continually makes it about, you know, the cissification.
	Is that the right word?
	Making people cissies?
	They call it pussification.
	And I understand, like, the problems with it.
	But I want to point this out, right?
	So we're talking about people with these AR-15s and want to take over the country or do whatever.
	What were they upset about, Nick?
	They were upset about women reviewing video games.
	They were upset about an all-female reboot of Ghostbusters.
	Like, they're the snowflakes, right?
	Like, you watch with Trump.
	Trump has these moments with a reporter.
	If a reporter asks a real question, Like, the reporter doesn't even have to, like, say, like, you're lying, sir.
	Like, he's just like, you're so nasty.
	You're awful.
	You're terrible people.
	He's a total snowflake.
	They're such sad people.
	There's a reason why Donald Trump Jr.
	has to post with, like, dead lions.
	He's sad.
	He's a sad little weak-willed man, and he's insecure, and that's who all of these people are.
	And the longer that we have those minutes, the longer that people like this continue to do this.
	Right.
	Howard Stern even had said this.
	I mean, I can't believe I'm invoking him, but he obviously was a friend of Trump's for a long time, and he wishes he would just maybe get therapy.
	He would really, you know, there would be some growth there, as a lot of the people would.
	But, you know, again, are we still battling that?
	Is therapy still this really taboo thing like it was back then?
	Because, you know, if you watch, like, Ordinary People, which is another great movie, here's my reference for the day.
	It's a great movie!
	In the very beginning, there's a party scene, and they are so mortified at having to admit that Timothy Hutton, who survived a Boat accident where his brother died in this most traumatic way possible and they're still like mortified of the notion of having to admit to their friends that he's seeing a psychiatrist.
	You know what I mean?
	Like that's how taboo was then.
	And I think that we've moved a long way and I think people are willing to sort of, you know, admit that or do that or seek help.
	But I suppose it's just shrunken and made that smaller group that much more toxic.
	Right, and they see the rest of the world, so it's actually funny you brought that up about therapy.
	So, on one hand, men are killing themselves left and right.
	White men.
	Because white supremacy plus toxic masculinity equals, like, expectations you can never live up to, and then once you lose that thread, you hurt yourself.
	You're drinking or drugs or harmful behavior or killing yourself.
	But there's also another part to it.
	I don't know if you saw it, but Ben Sass did like a graduation commencement speech, which our listeners should take a minute to go listen to.
	It is an abomination.
	It is terrible.
	And there's a moment in all of it where because he's a jock, right?
	He's like, oh, I can't show feelings.
	And so what does he do?
	He overcompensates.
	He's like, oh, you know, therapist.
	Yeah, you mean people who help people live better lives and overcome their trauma and heal.
	And meanwhile, these people, that's the other thing about masculinity.
	It's supposed to be about being strong and it's supposed to be about being brave.
	They're too afraid to talk about their feelings.
	Like, that's the most terrifying thing in the world is to talk about what you feel.
	They're snowflakes.
	They're insecure.
	They're overcompensating.
	That's all that's happening.
	And we gotta reject that whole thing.
	We just do.
	And if there's anything more cliche than what I mentioned, you know, in the beginning about the effigy thing, it's this notion that they don't want to get in touch with their feelings.
	It's like you wouldn't believe it if you did a movie when it had a character like this in there, but this is where we are.
	It really is the fact.
	And we see it, by the way, it's not limited to males.
	No.
	Because, you know, you see all these clips now.
	I've seen it in New York with a reporter with a mask on and they're screaming at him, yelling.
	And it's these women who are posturing and, like, you know, gunning to, like, get into a physical altercation with a guy.
	And then the same thing happens in Minnesota where another reporter has a mask on and they're screaming at him, they're chanting, remove, take off your mask, whatever it is, and, like, make him leave.
	And it's so pervasive.
	It's crazy how powerful this white, you know, it's all white people, you know, the effect it has on this subgroup of people in America.
	And I just wonder how big of a group that really is.
	White supremacy and patriarchy help all white people.
	You don't have to be, you don't have to intentionally be a part of it.
	It helps even when you're unaware of it.
	And there are people who were oppressed by it who also help it.
	That's one of the first lessons of, you know, of modern social thought is intersectionalism tells us there are different types of power for different people.
	And if you think, and by the way, I was researching QAnon, right?
	QAnon, if you do the Venn diagram, you have QAnon and you have the anti-vaxxers.
	They share a big space, Nick.
	And do you know who a large part of those groups are?
	White women.
	They play a large role in it.
	And also, I mean, Trump has a large support group among white women.
	It just so happens that, again, white supremacy and patriarchy serve all white people, even the white people that it oppresses.
	And it oppresses all of them because everybody's actually a victim of this stuff.
	They live shorter, more miserable lives because they're involved in it.
	And in the statistics show you left or right.
	If you want to go take a look at it, just go look.
	We are living shorter, more miserable lives because we are part of this system.
	It should be rejected all the way around.
	All right, well, that was a discussion, Nick.
	I feel like we covered some ground.
	I feel like we covered some bases on this one.
	We wanna thank you for listening.
	For those of you who are coming in, I mean, the audience is growing by leaps and bounds.
	Go back, see what we're doing on past episodes.
	The thing that we need from you the most, and listen, it's a call to action, and people have been writing, and they've been like, can we send you money?
	Can you do a Patreon, a GoFundMe, something or another to support the podcast?
	Here's what we need.
	Like us, subscribe to us, share us, comment on it.
	All that stuff like legitimately helps.
	Like I know you've heard that from other podcasts.
	It actually helps with this stuff.
	And we're growing again by leaps and bounds and it's working.
	Watch on YouTube.
	Watch on YouTube.
	Like this is really taking off.
	We really appreciate your part in it.
	We appreciate all the comments, the shares, all the love coming our way.
	So thank you so much for that.
	Until next time, you can find Nick at Can You Hear Me?
	SMH.
	You can find me at J.Y.
	Sexton.
	Until then, stay safe and keep washing your hands.

▲