The Megyn Kelly Show - Top Political Soundbites of 2025, Trump's Israel and Tucker Friendships, and Life After a Pardon
Aired: 2025-12-22
Duration: 01:15:58


=== Finishing 2025 with Excitement (03:12) ===

[00:00:02]  Hey, everybody, Mark Calpert here.
[00:00:03]  Thank you for being part of Next Up.
[00:00:05]  This is our last show of 2025.
[00:00:07]  Eager to have a little bit of a holiday break.
[00:00:09]  I hope you will too.
[00:00:11]  And we'll see you the first week of January.
[00:00:12]  But a great show to finish off the year with that I'm super excited about.
[00:00:16]  I am the editor-in-chief of the live interactive video platform, Tuway, and your host here to Everything Next Up on the MK Network.
[00:00:23]  Very grateful to you for helping us build the show this year.
[00:00:26]  We've got a lot in store for next year that we're excited to share with you in the new year.
[00:00:31]  But for now, again, we're all just super appreciative of how supportive you are, how the audience has grown, and again, doing new stuff together next year.
[00:00:40]  Two great guests today, conversations.
[00:00:42]  First, Dan Senor, my friend, who is one of the country's leading experts on foreign policy and particularly adept at understanding what is going on within the American and Israeli governments, but other governments around the world.
[00:00:55]  He's a super well-wired guy.
[00:00:57]  He hosts his own podcast, and we're always grateful to have him here.
[00:00:59]  I want to talk to him about what's going on with anti-Semitism here as the year end, unfortunately, what's going on with the Middle East peace deal and how that's progressing.
[00:01:08]  And also a really important topic that really doesn't get enough coverage, which is Marco Rubio, man in the job as both Secretary of State and National Security Advisor.
[00:01:17]  We're going to talk about why that's so significant and how he's doing the job.
[00:01:21]  And then Congressman Chris Collins is here.
[00:01:23]  He was a Congressman in New York.
[00:01:24]  He was the first member of Congress to endorse Donald Trump and then worked closely with President Trump until he got into some trouble with the law, was indicted at the federal level, pled guilty, went to prison, and then was endorsed by President Trump.
[00:01:39]  And now he's not only running for Congress now in Florida, but he's written a new book.
[00:01:44]  And we're going to talk to him about this extraordinary journey that he's been on and where he is now as a grandfather, someone who thought about retirement, but is instead looking to get back to elected office.
[00:01:54]  Excited to talk to them both and share those conversations with you.
[00:01:58]  But first, my last reported monologue of the year.
[00:02:01]  This is my not struggle, but I was just thinking like how to do a year in review on politics.
[00:02:09]  We did last episode, we did the year in review in media.
[00:02:12]  And I thought, well, what's the best way to do year in review in politics?
[00:02:17]  I could do another awards thing like we did with the media, but I was so struck by how news-packed the year was.
[00:02:27]  I mean, there were just, you know, so many news stories this year in politics and in culture and in sports.
[00:02:34]  I mean, the pace of news is so fast now, but for some reason, this year seemed particularly packed.
[00:02:41]  And of course, first and foremost, the new administration.
[00:02:43]  I mean, Donald Trump became president, a sworn-in president this year.
[00:02:47]  It just seems like he's been there for a long time because it's been such an active administration.
[00:02:53]  So what we're going to do is we're going to review 2025 by looking at some of the great clips of the year, some of the great sound bites from people in politics, media that define the year to a large extent.
[00:03:07]  And some of them will be from Donald Trump.
[00:03:10]  I could do the whole program, which is incredible clips from the president.

=== Protecting Your Data Privacy (02:49) ===

[00:03:14]  But we're not going to let the president dominate this.
[00:03:18]  And we're not even going to start with the president.
[00:03:20]  Believe me, there'll be some Trump soundbites here, but we're going to start with others.
[00:03:24]  And we're going to do that by showing you some clips.
[00:03:28]  My guess is you'll probably remember most of these, but not all of them.
[00:03:32]  But we chose ones that we thought were interesting for representing the year, revealing things about the people involved, but also part of the story of the year in terms of issues and the mood of the nation.
[00:03:47]  I think you'll like them, and I think some of them will make you laugh and certainly will be compelling.
[00:03:54]  So we're going to do that.
[00:03:56]  I'll tell you that I did the research for these and looked at with my colleagues some of the clip options on my new up phone.
[00:04:03]  And I want to show you something about the upphone.
[00:04:05]  Again, the up phone is from unplugged.com.
[00:04:08]  It's the folks that are trying to change the relationship you have with your own data because the up phone from unplugged helps you keep your data, protects you from prying, protects you from having folks gather information about you.
[00:04:23]  So I've been testing the up phone for a while now, using it when I'm traveling around and need to do research, look at stuff on the web.
[00:04:29]  Take a look at the dashboard on my phone, and you'll see this is the phone's real-time firewall, different than you'd have on a standard smartphone.
[00:04:38]  And it's blocking, you can see over and over all these attempts, hundreds of attempts, thousands of attempts of tracking attempts to try to get your data.
[00:04:47]  Okay.
[00:04:48]  Amazing.
[00:04:49]  Hundreds and thousands of times.
[00:04:51]  All the apps you use on your regular smartphone are trying to harvest your data, trying to build profiles, track your location, figure out what you're looking at, and then sell that data and try to sell you stuff.
[00:05:01]  Whether you're in politics or business or government, journalism, whatever you do, everyone of a normal, everybody on a normal phone is going to have their data tracked.
[00:05:12]  What happens on the up phone is it's blocking the attempts to track you, trying to build intelligence on you, know what you're reading, who you're talking to, et cetera.
[00:05:21]  The up phone shows you exactly which apps are trying to spy on you, and then it blocks them in real time.
[00:05:26]  So if you work in my business or any other business where you want to protect your data or just personally want to protect your data, go right now to unplugged.com.
[00:05:35]  Whether you're texting, browsing, using any app, the up phone ensures your personal information, it stays personal.
[00:05:41]  It's the phone for people who are done having their privacy invaded, done being watched.
[00:05:46]  If you're ready to take back your digital privacy, visit unplugged.com slash mark.
[00:05:51]  You'll get 25% off the phone case you purchase with the phone.
[00:05:55]  Learn more now.
[00:05:56]  Order your up phone today.
[00:05:57]  It's at unplugged.com slash mark because your life should be yours, not theirs.

=== Europe's Defense and Risks (15:52) ===

[00:06:03]  All right.
[00:06:04]  So I did all my research with my colleagues, and this is what we came up with.
[00:06:07]  The first clips I want to start with come from JD Vance, the vice president.
[00:06:11]  And he's had an incredible year, and it remains, I've talked about it all the time, but it remains just such an undercovered story, which is the influence that JD Vance has.
[00:06:21]  I've said most influential vice president of the modern era, more than Mondale, more than Cheney, Dick Cheney, who are generally considered the most influential.
[00:06:29]  So let's start with a moment that happened right at the beginning of the administration.
[00:06:34]  This is a pretty famous one.
[00:06:35]  I'm pretty sure you'll remember.
[00:06:36]  This is February 28th, last day of February.
[00:06:41]  This is JD Vance in the Oval Office talking to Vladimir Zelensky about whether or not he's grateful enough for American assistance.
[00:06:51]  This is S1.
[00:06:53]  They should have.
[00:06:54]  Have you said thank you once?
[00:06:55]  A lot of times.
[00:06:56]  No, in this entire meeting, you said thank you.
[00:06:58]  Even today.
[00:06:59]  You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October.
[00:07:03]  Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who's trying to save your country.
[00:07:13]  So assertive.
[00:07:14]  And that moment shocked everybody of how confrontational it was.
[00:07:18]  But if you look at where we are now in the peace process, it really rocked the Ukrainians back on their heel.
[00:07:25]  And Zelensky tried to did make up for it by being a lot more gracious.
[00:07:30]  And you've seen that ever since that moment, whenever there's conversations about the Ukrainians and the Americans, and there's been some rough negotiations about what's going to be in a possible deal, you can just feel in Zelensky's appreciation a recollection of that moment and saying, whatever else I say in public, whatever else I say in private, Zelensky I think says to himself, I got to be grateful.
[00:07:54]  I've got to express that gratitude.
[00:07:56]  And I think it goes a long way.
[00:07:57]  There's a reason the vice president said it, which is the president himself, the American people, they put a lot of treasure into trying to help the Ukrainians.
[00:08:06]  And gratitude is required.
[00:08:08]  And I think not just in terms of gratitude, but I think it rocks Zelensky back on his heels in terms of recognizing that the Americans have a big role here.
[00:08:16]  And he can't just turn his nose up and give the Heisman to any American request or suggestion about what should be in the deal just because he doesn't like it, doesn't agree with it.
[00:08:30]  Huge moment for the vice president.
[00:08:32]  Here's another huge moment.
[00:08:34]  This was a couple weeks before that first one at the Munich Security Conference in Germany.
[00:08:41]  Officials from all over the world, Europe and the U.S. in particular, gathering to talk about security.
[00:08:47]  And one of the missions that Donald Trump had in the first term, and he and Vice President Vance have in this term, is to remake the relationship between the United States and Europe, to remake the mission of NATO.
[00:08:59]  And a lot of people in the establishments of both parties say to me all the time, Trump and Vance, they hate NATO.
[00:09:06]  They want to destroy NATO.
[00:09:07]  No, they really don't.
[00:09:08]  They want to remake it.
[00:09:09]  And by the way, when you talk about Europe contributing money to its own defense, the American people, I think, are pretty four-square on the side of the president and the vice president.
[00:09:18]  When you talk about redefining the mission, so that conversation has been around for a while.
[00:09:24]  But Vance in this speech in Germany, I think it's one of the most important speeches and impressive speeches an American official has given about the U.S.-European relationship since World War II.
[00:09:37]  And it got a little bit of coverage at the time, but it's just extraordinary and important.
[00:09:40]  And basically what Vance said is, I don't hate Europe, but Europe has to change.
[00:09:45]  Europe has to grow up and not just grow up regarding its relationship to NATO, but has to grow and the United States, but Europe has to grow up regarding its internal societies, how work is seen, the influence of woke, controlling borders.
[00:10:00]  All these problems that the United States has that the president and the vice president have addressed and said they would address when they ran.
[00:10:07]  All these problems exist in Europe, and in some cases they exist in Europe to a massive degree.
[00:10:13]  Their immigration problems in some ways are significantly worse than ours.
[00:10:17]  So here's a bit of the vice president at the conference.
[00:10:21]  And this is a historic and stark message, but it's one he firmly believes in, the president believes in.
[00:10:27]  And I believe, again, although some Europeans recoiled at it, not all of them did.
[00:10:32]  Here's the vice president in February of this year, S10, please.
[00:10:37]  The threat that I worry the most about vis-a-vis Europe is not Russia, it's not China, it's not any other external actor.
[00:10:45]  And what I worry about is the threat from within.
[00:10:49]  The retreat of Europe from some of its most fundamental values, values shared with the United States of America.
[00:10:58]  What an extraordinary thing to say, that the problems with Europe are not, the biggest problems are not China and Russia.
[00:11:03]  The problems are, you know, Europe needs to be back to market economy, hard work, controlled borders, no dominance of woke in the society.
[00:11:14]  It's an incredible thing to say.
[00:11:16]  And as I said, I was in Europe around this time after the speech, and some Europeans would say, including publicly, would say, oh, it's so offensive, mind your own business.
[00:11:25]  The United States has its own problems.
[00:11:27]  But I believe the vice president reached directly and indirectly a number of Europeans, government officials, business leaders, people involved in the public square, who said, yeah, thank goodness someone's telling us, because our own leaders, in many cases, particularly the places with more liberal governments, just aren't doing it.
[00:11:44]  So those are two moments for the vice president, two of the more visible moments where his role was elevated.
[00:11:50]  But I'll say again, behind the scenes, literally on a daily basis, he's extraordinarily involved in the government.
[00:11:56]  All right.
[00:11:57]  People are not looking past Donald Trump in 2025.
[00:12:00]  People continue to understand he's the dominant figure.
[00:12:03]  But what you've seen with the vice president's elevation, some of the other people in the administration, Scott Bessett, Marco Rubio, you're seeing the emergence of other powerful figures on the Republican side.
[00:12:15]  And you're certainly seeing it this year on the Democratic side.
[00:12:18]  You've seen, even as the party has grappled with the loss to Donald Trump, even as the party has tried to figure out what it stands for, you've seen the elevation of a number of Democratic figures.
[00:12:27]  First and foremost, Gavin Newsom, from his podcast where he hosted people like Charlie Kirk and took a lot of heat from the left, to his confrontations with the president over the fires in California, Southern California on immigration.
[00:12:41]  You've seen him really stand out as someone who regularly appears on camera, on his own podcast, on TV, on other shows, on this show, and really made a difference in terms of how people, how aware people were of him.
[00:12:54]  And I think it's clear from the polling and from talking to sources how elevated he's become with the Democratic Party.
[00:13:01]  Here he is after what became the capstone of his year of elevation as not just the frontrunner for 2028, but almost a shadow president, which was the successful night he had on Proposition 50, the ballot measure that's going to allow Democrats to almost certainly pick up at least a few, up to five new seats in the House of Representatives as part of the redistricting battles nationwide.
[00:13:25]  At the time he announced this effort, a lot of people, including me, said this is a big risk.
[00:13:32]  Republicans are going to raise a lot of money.
[00:13:33]  It's hard to win.
[00:13:35]  And a ballot measure in California history says it's hard to win yes on a process question.
[00:13:39]  Just voters don't pay that much attention.
[00:13:41]  They're just inclined to vote no.
[00:13:43]  And the early polling showed yes was not doing great.
[00:13:47]  If you looked at the early polling, you'd say yes was probably headed for DeVit.
[00:13:51]  Two things happened, or really three things.
[00:13:54]  One is Republicans did a horrible job raising money and organizing to beat the ballot measure on redistricting.
[00:14:00]  Number two, Newsom raised a ton of money and really built a sophisticated team to get yes done.
[00:14:07]  And then three, their message was, this is all about Trump.
[00:14:11]  Stop Trump.
[00:14:12]  If you want to stop Trump in California, stopping Trump for most voters is a big priority.
[00:14:17]  You got to vote for this ballot measure.
[00:14:20]  Here's Gavin Newsom on the election night giving his victory speech after California's Proposition 50 on redistricting passed overwhelmingly.
[00:14:29]  This is S4, please.
[00:14:31]  And let me underscore, it's been a good evening for everybody, not just the Democratic Party.
[00:14:38]  But what a night for the Democratic Party.
[00:14:40]  A party that is in its ascendancy.
[00:14:44]  A party that's on its toes no longer on its heels from coast to coast, sea to shining sea.
[00:14:53]  All you Newsome haters out there will scoff at my next sentence, but if he becomes a Democratic nominee and if he's elected president in 2028, that night, that speech, that political fight will be a massive part of the story.
[00:15:05]  And I know all you Newsome haters and you Newsome skeptics, and I'm not here cheerleading for him or speaking for him.
[00:15:10]  I just believe you're underestimating his political potency, certainly to win the nomination.
[00:15:15]  You look at that confidence and that framing of a message.
[00:15:20]  I think one of the things you saw in that clip that's underestimated about Gavin Newsom is he's a pretty optimistic public figure.
[00:15:27]  He talks about hope and determination for a better country.
[00:15:31]  Now, again, you Newsome haters will say, well, California is such a mess.
[00:15:35]  California has a lot of problems.
[00:15:37]  But just in terms of the pure political situation, that clip is a highlight of the year for Newsom and a highlight of the political win that has elevated him quite high in 2025.
[00:15:51]  Another person who's become elevated this year is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
[00:15:57]  She partnered with Bernie Sanders, events around the country, built bridges quietly within Congress with even some more moderate conservative members and has become a public face of the party in a way that is, I don't say unique, but it's special.
[00:16:17]  She can raise a lot of money online, a huge gift, and she is in demand.
[00:16:22]  Gavin Newsom featured her in an ad he did in support of that ballot measure on redistricting.
[00:16:28]  And she herself, whether it's traveling with Sanders or by herself, going on media or on the floor of the House, she has become a recognized, visible, and in-demand spokesperson for the Democratic Party.
[00:16:41]  Here she is on the House floor, where she's become, again, a very frequent speaker and attention getter, talking about her opposition to the Republican signature measure that they passed this year, the so-called reconciliation package, the Big Beautiful bill.
[00:16:56]  This is Congressman AOC, S7, please.
[00:17:01]  This bill is a deal with the devil.
[00:17:04]  It explodes our national debt.
[00:17:07]  It militarizes our entire economy and it strips away health care and basic dignity of the American people for what?
[00:17:18]  To give Elon Musk a tax break and billionaires the greedy taking of our nation.
[00:17:24]  We cannot stand for it and we will not support it.
[00:17:28]  You should be ashamed.
[00:17:31]  Now, again, I don't rate her as high as likely to run for president.
[00:17:35]  I don't rate her as high as if she does run being a strong candidate as a lot of my colleagues.
[00:17:40]  But there's no doubt that you saw in that clip and you saw it throughout this year that she's become an exciting figure in the party.
[00:17:47]  And in the age in which we live, the attention economy, where getting people to listen to what you have to say is the first battle.
[00:17:55]  She proved in that clip and she proved throughout the year that she continues to grow as someone who can get attention.
[00:18:01]  And if she doesn't run or if she runs and loses, regardless of who the Democrats nominate in 2026, 2028, regardless of where the competitive races end up being in the midterms next year, she is an in-demand person within the party, without a doubt, and not just by the progressives.
[00:18:18]  All right.
[00:18:19]  Another big story of this year involves the president, but really separate, is MAGA and all the questions of the Marjorie Taylor Greens retiring from Congress and the fights within the Republican Party in Capitol Hill and then around the country, the pundit class, the people with podcasts, all these tensions.
[00:18:39]  And the death of Charlie Kirk really unleashed a lot of stuff that it's clear now that Charlie put a lid on, kept the peace.
[00:18:47]  And so there's all sorts of, on X every day, there's all this MAGA on MAGA action that is, it's so intense, like it makes me uncomfortable how angry people within the same movement are, people who are longtime friends and allies really going at it.
[00:19:02]  Here's an example of that.
[00:19:03]  This is Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson, both podcasters.
[00:19:08]  Senator Cruz has his own show, you know.
[00:19:10]  But here they are going at it pretty hard.
[00:19:12]  And again, this clip is to me representative of the kind of tensions that exist with people who have been allies, who agree on most things, who are supportive of the president, and yet on many issues, including Israel, but not only Israel, real tensions.
[00:19:28]  This is Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson, avert your eyes if you don't like awkwardness.
[00:19:33]  S8, please.
[00:19:35]  How many people live in Iran, by the way?
[00:19:37]  I don't know the population at all.
[00:19:39]  No, I don't know the population.
[00:19:41]  You don't know the population of the country you seek to topple?
[00:19:46]  How many people live in around?
[00:19:47]  92 million.
[00:19:47]  Okay.
[00:19:49]  Yeah.
[00:19:49]  How could you not know that?
[00:19:52]  I don't sit around memorizing population tables.
[00:19:54]  Well, it's kind of relevant because you're calling for the overthrow of the government.
[00:20:00]  This issue of America's role in the world, it comes up on Israel all the time.
[00:20:04]  There it was on Iran, but you're going to see it potentially in Venezuela.
[00:20:08]  You're going to see it potentially with Russia, Ukraine, with the Middle East peace deal.
[00:20:12]  It's a big source of tension within the party at a time when normally tribalism is the order of the day, right?
[00:20:21]  Keep watching that.
[00:20:22]  Here's another moment, key for MAGA.
[00:20:24]  This is Erica Kirk speaking at Memorial for Charlie Kirk in September of this year, talking about, as she has said since, kind of almost spontaneously, about how she feels about the man accused of murdering her husband.
[00:20:39]  Erica Kirk, S9, please.
[00:20:43]  That man, that young man.
[00:20:51]  I forgive him.
[00:21:10]  So much embedded in that incredible moment.
[00:21:13]  First of all, the elevation of Erica Kirk as a visible and known figure much more widely than she had been before.
[00:21:20]  And then the moment of grace, an example for people to be able to forgive in that situation someone who just killed her husband, allegedly.
[00:21:31]  Such a powerful moment.
[00:21:32]  And then, of course, again, the controversy, her fights recently with Candace Owens, criticism she's received from the right, also the left, but from the right about how she's conducting her public grief.
[00:21:44]  All of this part of just an extraordinary year and tragic year for the Kirk family, but also another area of tension within MAGA.
[00:21:55]  Okay.

=== Delicious Masa Chips Review (04:20) ===

[00:21:56]  Lastly, the president.
[00:21:57]  Of course, again, we could play 100 soundbites.
[00:22:00]  Here he is from his inaugural address.
[00:22:02]  Again, startling that that's this year, 11 months ago, January 20th, 2025.
[00:22:06]  Here's just a bit of the president from his second inaugural address.
[00:22:09]  You'll recall it was moved inside because it was so cold.
[00:22:12]  This is S5, please.
[00:22:15]  During every single day of the Trump administration, I will very simply put America first.
[00:22:30]  That inaugural address kicking off in a year of, I think, unprecedented.
[00:22:34]  And the White House puts the stats out all the time how much he has spoken.
[00:22:38]  Press conferences, speeches, rallies, foreign trips, these photo ops in the White House, which he turns into press conferences, the cabinet meetings.
[00:22:47]  Donald Trump started 2025 talking as the incoming president and has now talked as president more than many would like.
[00:22:56]  Certainly, the people who don't like him don't want to hear so much from him, but even some of his supporters have been amazed at how much we have heard from Donald Trump this year.
[00:23:06]  That's a little bit of 2025 in review through some pretty interesting, compelling sound bites.
[00:23:12]  Didn't play as many funny ones as I had wanted, but it's been quite a year.
[00:23:17]  It's been quite a year.
[00:23:18]  And we're looking forward to next year and continuing to track it all with you.
[00:23:22]  Send me an email.
[00:23:23]  Let me know what you thought about our clip selections.
[00:23:26]  My email address is nextuphalperin at gmail.com.
[00:23:30]  Make sure you're watching the show.
[00:23:31]  And if you miss some episodes during the year, you can go back during the holidays and watch them on our YouTube channel.
[00:23:36]  It's youtube.com slash at nextupHalpern.
[00:23:40]  All our full episodes are there, but also the bonus clips that we do, all of them on our YouTube channel.
[00:23:45]  And of course, if you want to listen to the backup issues, episodes rather, that you miss during the year, you can subscribe at Next Up with Mark Halperin on any podcast platform that you use.
[00:23:55]  Make sure, always have the downloads turned on so every new episode pops right up.
[00:24:00]  If you do that, you'll have the opportunity to always get everything right when we file them, all the new reports right here.
[00:24:07]  All right, we're going to take a quick break.
[00:24:09]  When we come back, Dan Senor is going to talk to us about what's going on in the Middle East and around the world.
[00:24:14]  And with our Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, Dan Senor is next up.
[00:24:21]  Ladies and gentlemen, I am a chip guy.
[00:24:24]  I don't eat chips around the clock, but I eat chips a lot.
[00:24:26]  Love chips, love my chips.
[00:24:28]  And now my life has changed because of Masa.
[00:24:31]  If you look at a normal chip bag, you're going to see a bunch of chemicals in there.
[00:24:34]  Seed oils, MSG, artificial dyes, natural flavors that don't taste or seem natural, and ingredients that sound like they're more from a science experiment than a good snack.
[00:24:44]  Masa is redefining snacking now with real food.
[00:24:47]  Their chips, whatever flavor you buy, three ingredients, organic corn, sea salt, 100% grass-fed beef tallow.
[00:24:54]  Clean, simple, very tasty, delicious.
[00:24:56]  Masa chips leave you satisfied and feeling energized without giving you a feeling of bloat, crashing, sluggish.
[00:25:04]  No binging, no lingering hunger, just a snack that feels good, fills you up, and you want more again.
[00:25:10]  Personally, I like the original, the white or blue with no additional flavors, but the other flavors are all great.
[00:25:17]  I love them all.
[00:25:18]  And if you love Masa, then you're going to also love their sister product, the Vandy Crisps.
[00:25:23]  They are delicious, three-ingredient potato chips.
[00:25:26]  I love them too.
[00:25:27]  Every flavor is great.
[00:25:28]  Again, I'm an original guy, but they're all delicious.
[00:25:31]  And if you're ready to give either of them a try, here's an opportunity if you're part of the Nexter community to get 25% off your first order of Masa chips, Vandy Crisps or both.
[00:25:40]  Masachips.com or VandyCrisps.com is where you can order.
[00:25:45]  Just use my promo code Mark and get 25% off.
[00:25:49]  Also, you could click on the video description.
[00:25:51]  There's a link or scan the QR code.
[00:25:54]  Claim this delicious 25% offer.
[00:25:56]  And if you want to just go to a store and buy them, you can go to your local Spread Supermarket.
[00:26:01]  They're available nationwide.
[00:26:02]  Stop by now, pick up a bag or two of each to enjoy eating your chips in a whole different and delicious way.
[00:26:11]  Buy them now before somebody else steals them.

=== Globalizing the Intifada Concerns (15:40) ===

[00:26:16]  All right, welcome back, everybody.
[00:26:18]  Joining me now and next up, Dan Senor.
[00:26:20]  He's the host of the Call Me Back podcast.
[00:26:21]  And he's one of the few people I know who understands the nexus between domestic and international policy, politics, media, pretty much everything.
[00:26:32]  And one of my big complaints, you've heard me say it before, is a lot of people out there talking and don't understand everything in 360-degree five-dimensional chess way.
[00:26:40]  That's why we love having Dan on.
[00:26:42]  Dan, welcome back.
[00:26:42]  Thank you for being here.
[00:26:43]  Great to be with you, Mark.
[00:26:45]  How's Hanukkah going for the Senor family?
[00:26:47]  It's mixed because the holiday is all about Jewish light in the world and Jewish pride.
[00:26:57]  And these last few days, especially given what happened in Australia over the weekend and what's been happening elsewhere.
[00:27:06]  Australia is just actually one event.
[00:27:08]  It's gotten outsized attention.
[00:27:09]  But there was anti-Semitic violence in Amsterdam.
[00:27:13]  There's been two very serious acts of anti-Semitic violence in California over the last few days.
[00:27:18]  I can go on and on.
[00:27:19]  There's been some stuff in New York and Crown Heights, one on the New York City subway.
[00:27:23]  So there just feels to me, particularly over the past week, to be a string of, I don't want to say coordinated, but it does have a kind of global feel to borrow the phrase, globalize the intifada.
[00:27:36]  And so while the Hanukkah holiday is about light, there's a sense right now and there's a conversation happening in the Jewish community in the diaspora and in the U.S. and elsewhere about should the holiday also be about Jewish might and not just light, that we should really be thinking about how well we are protecting the community and defending ourselves.
[00:27:58]  And so like I said, it's been mixed.
[00:28:00]  Yeah.
[00:28:01]  We talked a lot about these issues with David Wolpe on the episode earlier this week.
[00:28:05]  And the big question we discussed is what can be done.
[00:28:10]  And as you just suggested, there needs to be more thoughtfulness about security.
[00:28:13]  There just does.
[00:28:15]  But if you just take from October 7th till today, what are things that can be built on to deal with the core questions here?
[00:28:23]  Young people, anti-Semitism on the left and on the right.
[00:28:26]  And I know you've spoken about your greater concern about anti-Semitism on the left, but there are problems on the right as well.
[00:28:32]  So what are the building blocks?
[00:28:34]  If we want to flip from being scared, as some people are, or in the moment of these incidents that you described and how to grapple with them kind of as momentary challenges, what are the positive things to build on for nations and individuals to build on?
[00:28:50]  Yeah, I would say since your audience is largely focused on politics and you have a lot of politicians and political leaders or people with influence in politics that listen to this podcast, I would say to them what has been lacking on both the left and the right.
[00:29:09]  I say I'm more alarmed by what's happening on the left than what's happening on the right, but I'm not zero concern about what's happening on the right.
[00:29:17]  I see something happening there.
[00:29:18]  I just think it's way behind where the left is in terms of how advanced it is, meaning on how the degree to which it's really permeated the base of electoral politics.
[00:29:27]  And let me just spend a moment on that.
[00:29:29]  See, on the left right now, as you know, Mark, virtually anyone, say, running for Congress, save for maybe 15 or 20 seats in the country, the overwhelming majority of congressional districts in the country, they are either very red districts or very blue districts, and the incumbents in those seats are rarely worried about a general election challenge.
[00:29:50]  What they really live in fear of is a primary challenge.
[00:29:53]  And so if you are a Democrat today, I mean, take a race happening here in the New York City area where Dan Goldman is being, Congressman Dan Goldman is being challenged by Brad Lander.
[00:30:04]  I mean, I'm not going to say it's the only issue in the primary, but a big issue in the primary will be Israel and the Jewish community and the rise of anti-Semitism.
[00:30:13]  And where Dan Goldman is being pressured by many Democratic primary voters is from the left on that issue, from the hard left on criticizing him for being too supportive of the U.S.-Israel relationship.
[00:30:25]  And so if you're a Democrat, I can give you other examples around the country.
[00:30:28]  If you're a Democrat running for reelection, you live in fear of that.
[00:30:32]  And all the pressure right now, all the energy among the Democratic primary electorate is on distancing the United States from Israel.
[00:30:43]  That is not the case in Republican primaries.
[00:30:45]  You'll be hard-pressed to find any Republican primaries in the country where the issue of the U.S.-Israel relationship is going to be a big issue, pressuring a incumbent Republican from the right.
[00:30:55]  I mean, really, there are two members of Congress who have basically held that position, Tom Massey, who's facing a tough primary challenge, and Marjorie Taylor Greene, who left Congress.
[00:31:06]  So that's what I mean.
[00:31:07]  Again, I'm not saying the right Republicans can't arrive there.
[00:31:10]  I'm just saying they're not where the Democrats are.
[00:31:12]  And I think one of the lessons from what happened with the Democrats is the Democratic leadership did not confront this toxicity earlier.
[00:31:23]  And they didn't shut it down earlier.
[00:31:25]  And we tend to think, Mark, that anti-Semitism is nurtured and flourishes.
[00:31:32]  Dare I say that, use that word, meaning it thrives.
[00:31:35]  Let's say anti-Semitism thrives.
[00:31:36]  We tend to think, if you look throughout history, that anti-Semitism only thrives in situations of chaos.
[00:31:43]  And that's wrong.
[00:31:44]  It often simply thrives with permission.
[00:31:49]  That if leaders in that society, if the gatekeepers, if you will, in a particular society or institution, give it permission.
[00:31:56]  And I think the Democratic leadership gave it permission, and then it kind of became this Frankenstein thing that got out of control.
[00:32:03]  And I hope Republican leaders will learn from the Democratic lesson, what happened to Democrats.
[00:32:07]  And where they see it, they try to stamp it out quickly and don't give any permission to its rise.
[00:32:14]  And that, I would say, if you say, what's something people can do?
[00:32:17]  What did Albanese, the prime minister of Australia, get wrong?
[00:32:21]  I'm not saying he wanted there to be violent anti-Semitism against Jews in Australia.
[00:32:26]  I'm not saying he even wanted to create a culture where there was thriving, energetic anti-Semitism.
[00:32:33]  But the reality is, if you look at his history back to when he first entered parliament, he created a culture and cultivated an environment and a political movement where anti-Semitism was given permission.
[00:32:45]  And so the question is, what kind of political risks are leaders willing to take to confront their own base of support in order to stamp this stuff out?
[00:32:54]  Right.
[00:32:56]  I agree with you.
[00:32:56]  And you've made a very important distinction.
[00:33:01]  But here's a reality.
[00:33:02]  And I don't like to make everything about Tucker.
[00:33:05]  I really don't.
[00:33:07]  But Tucker is really important.
[00:33:09]  Tucker was on the all-in podcast.
[00:33:11]  Okay.
[00:33:11]  So number one, Tucker is being, everybody's favorite word, platformed by being on all-in.
[00:33:17]  And on all-in, he said his relationship with the president is better than it's ever been today.
[00:33:22]  Okay.
[00:33:23]  It surprised me a little bit.
[00:33:24]  And maybe the president would disagree, but clearly he's in good standing with the president, the guy who platformed Nick Fuentes, the guy who interviewed Nick Fuentes in a very soft way, and a guy who regularly says things that people who are concerned about anti-Semitism are really troubled by.
[00:33:43]  So one of the most powerful people in MAGA, a very close friend to the president who says their relationship's never been better, and all the stuff with the Heritage Foundation.
[00:33:52]  Like you could say not everything should be about Tucker and you could say, I know Tucker is not an anti-Semite.
[00:33:59]  But isn't that the silence around that?
[00:34:01]  It's not total silence.
[00:34:02]  People are quitting heritage over it.
[00:34:04]  But isn't the relative silence of the president and the vice president around that?
[00:34:09]  Isn't that something that if people just said by and tolerate, you could say it's contributed to a climate that's helping foster this?
[00:34:17]  So first, of course, the answer is yes.
[00:34:22]  Okay.
[00:34:23]  And now here's my caveat.
[00:34:24]  Here's my butt.
[00:34:26]  The president hosted a Hanukkah party at the White House on Tuesday night.
[00:34:30]  And it's worth watching his remarks because he basically said, I'm the best friend Israel and the Jewish community are ever going to have.
[00:34:41]  And the reality is, Mark, if you look at the history of President Trump's First term and now this term, just one year into his first term, almost one year.
[00:34:53]  You'd be hard pressed to find any president in modern political history, at least since 1948, for our purposes, who has piled up the record of accomplishments as it relates to the U.S.'s relationship that this president has.
[00:35:06]  I mean, it's really, I mean, I sometimes feel like a broken record rattling these things off, but it's important.
[00:35:13]  You know, first president, despite many presidents talking about doing it, to move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem and recognize Jerusalem as its capital, recognizing Israel's annexation of the Golan Heights, putting a maximum pressure campaign on Iran in his first term, taking out Qusim Qasim Sulani, who's responsible for more Israeli and American deaths in the Middle East than almost anyone else.
[00:35:36]  And then the Abraham Accords.
[00:35:37]  And then in this term, obviously, June of this year, the war against Iran, and no daylight between the president and the prime minister as it relates to Israel's war in Gaza.
[00:35:49]  So Israel's defensive war in Gaza.
[00:35:51]  So it is like from his, from the president's standpoint, is what do you people, what do people care whether or not, why are people hyperventilating or analyzing whether I'm friends with this person or whether I talk to this person or whether that person says my relationship with the president has never been better?
[00:36:06]  Who cares?
[00:36:07]  Look at what I've done.
[00:36:09]  And I really, and I, friends of mine who've spoken to the president about their concerns about some of the people he's associated with who are very causing great concern within the Jewish community.
[00:36:25]  The president's reaction is, guys, you don't have to worry about me.
[00:36:29]  Like, whether that person runs around and says we're friends or whether that person runs around and says they met with me, who cares?
[00:36:34]  It's what I'm doing that matters.
[00:36:36]  And he's, you know, he is right about that.
[00:36:39]  Well, let's talk about something he's done, which is the peace deal.
[00:36:43]  It's fallen off the radar as a matter of daily coverage because there's someone.
[00:36:46]  Not on the Call Me Back podcast.
[00:36:48]  Well, that's why you're here, dude, to fill us in.
[00:36:51]  Pretty much everything I know that's happened since the deal has been unfortunately negative, right?
[00:36:57]  There's conflict in Gaza.
[00:36:59]  There's been conflict in Syria.
[00:37:01]  There's conflict.
[00:37:02]  There's stuff breaking out.
[00:37:04]  There's no sign of an international peace force on the ground.
[00:37:07]  There's no sign of standing up a detailed plan or any plan to rebuild Gaza.
[00:37:12]  There's still refugee issues.
[00:37:14]  There's criticism of Israel on a variety of fronts.
[00:37:18]  There doesn't seem to be forward motion.
[00:37:19]  So what's the, except for the fact that the deal hasn't completely fallen apart, what are the pessimists getting wrong?
[00:37:25]  What is on track about implementation of the deal?
[00:37:30]  Whether whatever the ultimate rule disposition of who runs Gaza is, what's on track about rebuilding, peace, withdrawal of forces, et cetera?
[00:37:42]  So I think you're right to say the reality is by and large, Israeli soldiers, if you just think about it from Israel's perspective, are not being killed every week.
[00:37:52]  Keep in mind there were casualties like almost every week, either killed in action or just severely wounded.
[00:37:58]  And so that isn't happening.
[00:38:00]  All the living hostages are out of Gaza.
[00:38:03]  There's still one deceased hostage, which I know is highly important to get back.
[00:38:09]  But basically, this is held while Israel is still in 53% of Gaza so it can protect its southern border.
[00:38:17]  And the reality is Hamas doesn't pose a strategic threat to Israel anymore.
[00:38:22]  It just doesn't, which means Israel doesn't have to really do much more than it is doing now for the time being.
[00:38:28]  So that's like a big win.
[00:38:29]  We underestimate.
[00:38:30]  We play down.
[00:38:31]  That's like a really big deal.
[00:38:32]  Hamas is no longer a strategic threat to Israel.
[00:38:34]  Okay.
[00:38:35]  Now, the question is, who's going to take care of Gaza going forward?
[00:38:38]  That is a big question mark right now for the following reason.
[00:38:44]  One, The countries that would volunteer to sign up to serve in the International Stabilization Force are not necessarily the countries Israel wants in Gaza.
[00:38:54]  Some countries that have stepped up are ironically too close with Israel.
[00:39:00]  So take a country like Germany, which my understanding is they did offer to contribute some kind of forces at one point, and Israel was uncomfortable with it.
[00:39:07]  Why?
[00:39:07]  Because the Israeli government has a very close relationship with the German government, and Israel knows that if things get messy in Gaza at some point, even if there's an international stabilization force, Israel may, you know, when bullets start flying and some of them are IDF bullets, the last thing Israel wants is the idea of killing a German soldier.
[00:39:24]  So, you know, so they don't want countries that are too close with them.
[00:39:27]  Now, a country like Turkey has wanted to come in, but they're almost too distant from Israel, meaning they're too much of an enemy of Israel.
[00:39:33]  So Israel doesn't want enemies in Gaza.
[00:39:35]  So the question is: who can you find that's in between those two?
[00:39:38]  And the administration is working on that in coordination with Israel, but they haven't.
[00:39:43]  Who are the frontrunners?
[00:39:45]  I'll tell you who you see in the press: the Azerbaijanis, there's talk of times to time, from time to time, from Indonesians or the Malaysians.
[00:39:54]  I mean, this is not what I mean.
[00:39:56]  I'm telling you what's publicly out there.
[00:39:58]  Now, here's to me the wild card.
[00:40:01]  Will the Saudis or the Emiratis come in?
[00:40:03]  That's the real question.
[00:40:04]  Yeah.
[00:40:05]  I can wait.
[00:40:06]  It's the wild card.
[00:40:07]  It's a $64,000 question, and it might be essential, right?
[00:40:10]  Well, for the following reason.
[00:40:13]  What the Saudis have done, especially under MBS, but it began before MBS became crown prince, but especially under MBS, is it basically began after 9-11 in 2001.
[00:40:26]  The Saudis have demonstrated that they know how to de-radicalize very radical parts of its population.
[00:40:31]  I don't know, Mark, if you've been to Saudi Arabia in the last few years, but it's, it's, I mean, I've been in and out of there over the last couple decades.
[00:40:37]  It's you, the transformation is extraordinary.
[00:40:40]  And this is not a, you know, regardless of what one thinks of the MBS or the transformation is, I mean, it's, it's incredible.
[00:40:47]  I mean, they really, and they've de-radicalized, they have a real system for de-radicalizing really bad actors.
[00:40:53]  The Emiratis have done the same thing.
[00:40:54]  They didn't face the same challenges in terms of radicalization as the Saudis.
[00:40:58]  But my point is, there are governments in the region that know how to do this.
[00:41:03]  And that is what the Palestinian society needs.
[00:41:06]  It's one thing if Israel finds an international state of parties to participate in the International Stabilization Force and provide basic security.
[00:41:13]  But what do you do with the fact that a majority of Palestinian society still sympathizes with Hamas?
[00:41:17]  That is a massive problem of radicalization.
[00:41:19]  100%.
[00:41:20]  There's so many positives the Saudis doing it.
[00:41:22]  It's unthinkable on one level, but there's so many positives.
[00:41:27]  Is Israel all for the Saudis doing it?
[00:41:30]  Yes.
[00:41:31]  Islam is in Israel on this.
[00:41:32]  Israel would be thrilled if the Saudis or the Emiratis did this.
[00:41:37]  I will tell you that when you talk to Saudi officials, they will say, and Emirati officials, they don't want their sons dying in Gaza.
[00:41:49]  In order to do this, as one Emirati official put it to me, he said, you know, the Egyptians should do this.
[00:41:54]  Why should the Egyptians do it?
[00:41:55]  And the Egyptians may do it, by the way.
[00:41:56]  The Egyptians may play a role.

=== Managing Kushner and Witkoff (03:59) ===

[00:41:57]  He says the Egyptians should do it.
[00:41:59]  And I said, why?
[00:42:00]  And he said, because the Egyptians have no problem killing Gaza and Palestinians.
[00:42:04]  They were doing it.
[00:42:04]  They've been done for a while.
[00:42:06]  They certainly did it before 48 and 67, when 1948, 1967, when Egypt was in control of Gaza.
[00:42:12]  They said they're perfectly comfortable killing Palestinians.
[00:42:16]  The Saudis do not want to kill Palestinians, Gaza and Palestinians, and they don't want their young look.
[00:42:22]  Most of Saudi society wants, they have some sympathy for the Gaza and Palestinians, but this is not their problem.
[00:42:28]  And they don't want to own it.
[00:42:29]  And they certainly don't want to risk lives trying to deal with it.
[00:42:32]  They'll write checks, but they don't want bodies.
[00:42:34]  All right, we could drill down on this forever.
[00:42:36]  I did want to talk to you about Ukraine, but we're getting close to out of time.
[00:42:39]  So I want to talk to you about Secretary Rubio, who's also the national security advisor.
[00:42:43]  I know you're hearing and have heard what I hear, which is incredibly influential.
[00:42:49]  There's other players in national security.
[00:42:51]  Scott Besson's involved, the Pentagon's involved, et cetera.
[00:42:54]  Obviously, the special ambassadors, Witkoff, Jared Kushner.
[00:42:57]  But Marco Rubio basically works out of the White House now, not the State Department for the most part.
[00:43:01]  Just talk about what you know about the role of Secretary Rubio in Venezuela, in the Middle East, in Russia, Ukraine now, as compared to what I would call a normal Secretary of State.
[00:43:13]  Well, he's not like any normal Secretary of State.
[00:43:17]  I don't want to call Rubio Kissinger.
[00:43:19]  It's too early to apply the Kissinger crown to Rubio, but structurally, to your point, Mark, he structurally, there's only one other precedent for the structure that you just described, which is Kissinger, which is serving as both Secretary of State and National Security Advisor.
[00:43:35]  So I think he has comparable structural influence to Kissinger.
[00:43:41]  And then the question is not just the structural and bureaucratic power, but it's the personal power and the relationship with the president.
[00:43:48]  And like Kissinger, Rubio really has the confidence of the president.
[00:43:54]  I mean, of the, I mean, to me, it's, you know, another comp would be Condi Rice and Bush in terms of that confidence, except Condi did not have the bureaucratic and structural power that Rubio does.
[00:44:05]  So Rubio has says extra, you know, other than Kissinger, unprecedented, at least since Kissinger, unprecedented structural and bureaucratic power.
[00:44:15]  And he has a real personal relationship with the president that I really think has truly been developed since Trump has been president.
[00:44:23]  I mean, it's not like they had, you know, I mean, I know Rubio is close to, Marco's close to Susie Wiles and some other people around the president.
[00:44:31]  And I think where he's been very deft is in managing this whole Witkoff-Kushner situation.
[00:44:38]  Whereas previous, I know two previous Secretaries of State had a challenge with Jared playing such an important role, an outsized role in the Middle East.
[00:44:47]  I think Marco has figured out a way to balance that in a way that it's not a turf issue, and he's actually leveraged them, and they leverage him.
[00:44:56]  And I actually think the dynamic is very, it works.
[00:45:01]  It balances.
[00:45:02]  Yeah.
[00:45:02]  Ladies and gentlemen, if you're interested in the inner workings of this administration when it comes to national security, the last thing Dan said is just it's the story.
[00:45:11]  It's the reality.
[00:45:12]  It's a human story, but it also is allowing the United States government to deal with all these complex foreign policy matters at one time.
[00:45:18]  Marco Rubio has put aside bureaucratic turf wars, made easier by the fact that he's got both jobs.
[00:45:23]  But there are so many people who've been Secretary of State who would look at Witkoff and Jared Kushner's roles and say, oh, no, impossible.
[00:45:31]  I'm not going to delegate that authority.
[00:45:32]  But he has, but he's involved.
[00:45:34]  And as Dan said, confidence of the president.
[00:45:36]  It's an incredible story for a guy who has been underestimated, not by everyone, but by some people, and as a relatively young age, has turned into a fully functioning, grown-up, sophisticated Secretary of State, National Security Advisor, player on the world stage, and player in the White House in a way that is quite something.

=== Why You Need Dream Powder (02:58) ===

[00:45:56]  Dan, again, I wish we go another 20, but we got to stop.
[00:46:00]  Very grateful to you.
[00:46:01]  Very grateful you spend part of your holiday season with us.
[00:46:03]  My best to your family and to you.
[00:46:06]  And I'll remind everybody: if the Call Me Podcast, Call Me Back podcast is not in your regular rotation, you're making a big mistake because it is worth the listen every time you learn something new and you understand in a sophisticated way what is happening.
[00:46:20]  Dan, thank you.
[00:46:21]  Thanks, Mark.
[00:46:21]  Be well.
[00:46:22]  Happy Hanukkah.
[00:46:23]  Take care.
[00:46:23]  Happy Hanukkah.
[00:46:25]  Next up, Congressman Chris Collins, former Congressman, maybe future college and congressman.
[00:46:29]  He's written a brand new book about an extraordinary life, including a brush with the law and early support for Donald Trump, which continues to pay dividends in his life.
[00:46:39]  Next up, Congressman Chris Collins.
[00:46:43]  Hey, folks, all of us have had this experience, nights, awful sleep, tossing and turning.
[00:46:48]  And one thing is for sure, lack of sleep is horrible for your health.
[00:46:51]  And that's why I want to tell you about Beam's Dream Powder.
[00:46:55]  Beam is proudly founded in America.
[00:46:57]  It's run by people who share the values we all do, hard work, integrity, and delivering results.
[00:47:03]  It's a healthy nighttime blend packed with science-backed ingredients shown to improve sleep so you can wake up in the morning feeling refreshed and ready to take on the day.
[00:47:13]  What's in dream?
[00:47:14]  Things like Reishi, magnesium, L-thenin, and Apogee, and also, of course, melatonin.
[00:47:20]  Everything's natural.
[00:47:21]  There's no junk in there.
[00:47:23]  And if you put it to the test, first night, take it, lights out, no more 3 a.m. pacing, no more morning fog.
[00:47:29]  After a week, many people, sharper focus, more patience, real energy.
[00:47:34]  It also tastes incredible and can be part of your nightly routine.
[00:47:38]  Beams already has given 28 million Americans better nights, better nights of sleep.
[00:47:44]  They don't want mediocre sleep.
[00:47:46]  They want great sleep.
[00:47:47]  And here's the deal.
[00:47:47]  Beams is giving all you nextters the ultimate Patriot discount of up to 40% off.
[00:47:54]  Just use the code MARK.
[00:47:56]  Get their best-selling dream powder for just $39.
[00:47:59]  That's right, $39.
[00:48:01]  Go to shopbeam.com slash Mark.
[00:48:04]  Use the code MarketCheckout.
[00:48:06]  Again, that's shopbeam.com slash Mark.
[00:48:12]  All right, next up, a person with a book called My Remarkable Life, and I'd say Truth of an Advertising.
[00:48:20]  Chris Collins has had a remarkable life and it continues to be remarkable as he tries to become one of the few people in American history to be in the U.S. House of Representatives from two different states.
[00:48:29]  But having served as a member of Congress from New York, both before and after he got elected to Congress, he had a pretty remarkable life.
[00:48:36]  And we're going to talk about that with author, former member of Congress, Chris Collins.
[00:48:41]  Congressman, welcome and thank you for making time.
[00:48:42]  Merry Christmas to you.
[00:48:44]  Oh, Mark, I'm very happy to be with you and all of your listeners.
[00:48:47]  And I too want to wish everyone a very happy holiday as we end what we know is a very tumultuous year of 2025.

=== Jeb Bush Presidential Support (06:09) ===

[00:48:55]  So to be with everyone, and I have written a book.
[00:49:00]  It was published just two days ago.
[00:49:02]  So here we go.
[00:49:04]  What's a guy who represented a local elected official, a county executive and member of Congress?
[00:49:09]  What's a guy who lived in New York doing in Florida?
[00:49:11]  That's the oldest story in the book.
[00:49:14]  New Yorker flees for warmer climes.
[00:49:16]  But what are you doing in Florida now?
[00:49:19]  Well, I'm enjoying what I thought was a bit of a retirement, but with President Trump back in office, and as people can find out in my book, I was the first member of Congress on February 24th of 2016 to endorse Donald Trump for president.
[00:49:35]  I was ridiculed.
[00:49:37]  There were political cartoons written about me in the Buffalo News.
[00:49:41]  And I stood firmly with now President Trump back when he was candidate Trump in 2016.
[00:49:48]  I seconded his nomination at the convention in Cleveland.
[00:49:52]  And when those Access Hollywood tapes hit less than four weeks from the election and people like Paul Ryan put a knife in his back, told him he shouldn't be running and to turn it over to Mike Pence.
[00:50:04]  I was the one on national news defending Donald Trump, reminding people that in his case, it was locker room talk and words.
[00:50:12]  In the case of Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton at his side, these were actions.
[00:50:17]  So I compared words to actions, defended him, and ultimately he did win.
[00:50:24]  And that was a good day for me as well.
[00:50:26]  He never forgot my early endorsement of him.
[00:50:29]  And he appointed me to be the congressional liaison to the White House.
[00:50:34]  And I spent those next couple of years flying on Air Force One meetings in the Roosevelt room, where he always had me sitting directly at his left.
[00:50:45]  So I got to know President Trump very, very well.
[00:50:49]  And certainly in my case, my role in Congress shifted significantly.
[00:50:54]  And my early endorsement of him turned out to be very good timing on my part.
[00:50:59]  Yeah.
[00:50:59]  So we're going to talk about this whole thing, the whole run of your career in the book, including that you're now, again, running for Congress in Florida.
[00:51:07]  And you got a pretty good chance, as best I can tell, to return to the House.
[00:51:11]  You endorsed the president, as you said, in February of 16.
[00:51:15]  And we're going to talk about that in a second.
[00:51:18]  In reward for your early support for the president, first and member of Congress to support him, you were part of the inaugural, the transition committee, as you said.
[00:51:27]  You met with him frequently.
[00:51:28]  Then after you had what we call a little bit of trouble with the law, we'll talk about your conviction, having pled guilty, you got a presidential pardon.
[00:51:38]  All of these things grew out of your relationship with the president.
[00:51:41]  It all starts with your endorsement of him.
[00:51:42]  Now, I want to unpack your endorsement of him.
[00:51:45]  You didn't endorse him originally.
[00:51:46]  You were a supporter of Jeb Bush.
[00:51:48]  And then when Governor Bush has failed as a presidential candidate, please clap, you shifted to Donald Trump.
[00:51:54]  It's kind of incredible that you were the first in the sense that he got into the race in 2015 and not one member of Congress chose to endorse him.
[00:52:03]  And yet today, he has more control over, sway with, whatever you want to say, members of the Republican Party than any president of our lifetime.
[00:52:11]  So what do you, how did everybody miss it?
[00:52:14]  How did you and others miss 2015 when Donald Trump came down the escalator, gave his announcement speech?
[00:52:21]  Why didn't more people see then what everybody or almost everybody seems to see now?
[00:52:26]  Well, in my case, I thought that Jeb Bush certainly had the background and what looked to be the credentials with a lot of experience.
[00:52:38]  And so, yeah, I was early on with Jeb Bush, and that was well before Donald Trump even entered the picture.
[00:52:45]  And I'm not somebody who would just leave somebody at the curb.
[00:52:49]  And so I stayed with Jeb Bush.
[00:52:51]  Again, I was very early on with him, even before he formally announced.
[00:52:55]  But when he did pretty much self-destruct during the debates and his campaign floundered, I waited until after South Carolina when he did officially drop out.
[00:53:08]  That's when I said, okay, I'm going to endorse now President Trump, a business person like me.
[00:53:15]  And when I looked at the other candidates, he was my obvious choice.
[00:53:19]  But I was loyal to Jeb Bush until he dropped out.
[00:53:23]  And I'm not making it, I don't want to make it as much about you.
[00:53:25]  It's just as kind of a, to me, it's kind of a gee whiz question.
[00:53:29]  A guy who eventually would come to dominate, as he has for almost a decade now, the Republican Party, same guy, right?
[00:53:37]  We're still talking about Donald Trump.
[00:53:40]  Same agenda, immigration, Washington's not working, standing up to China, economic growth.
[00:53:47]  Same guy in all of 2015.
[00:53:49]  How could it be that not even, I mean, you've got, I would argue you've got a special excuse because you'd endorsed someone already.
[00:53:55]  You'd endorsed someone early, so you couldn't switch over.
[00:53:58]  But how most members were unaffiliated.
[00:54:00]  How could it be that everybody at the party didn't come to that conclusion in 2015?
[00:54:07]  I can't answer that question.
[00:54:08]  They would have to.
[00:54:09]  But, you know, throughout 2016, there were only, I created what was called the Trump caucus.
[00:54:16]  Throughout the entire election cycle, there were only 11 of us that would even stand up and say we were supporting Donald Trump.
[00:54:25]  You know, now Senator Marsha Blackburn and now Senator Kevin Kramer were two of the other 10 beside me.
[00:54:33]  But I carried that torch and I can't speak for the other members, but I'm a private sector guy and that was what Donald Trump was.
[00:54:42]  They just blew him off and said he doesn't have experience in the political world, I guess, which they must have thought was the most important.
[00:54:50]  But yeah, it was a fairly lonely period of time between February and November when there were only 11 of us in the entire United States Congress standing with Donald Trump.
[00:55:04]  Yeah.

=== Stock Plea and Personal Questions (15:32) ===

[00:55:05]  Okay, let's talk about what led you to leave Congress and eventually get a presidential pardon.
[00:55:11]  Just, you know, I always say people shouldn't be judged by the worst day or days of their lives.
[00:55:16]  And you've been involved in public service.
[00:55:18]  You've been a successful business person.
[00:55:19]  You're running for Congress again.
[00:55:21]  But tell people the story.
[00:55:23]  How did you come to end up having to plead guilty and become a convicted felon?
[00:55:27]  Well, it comes back to the Department of Injustice.
[00:55:30]  And my situation was fairly similar to General Flynn.
[00:55:34]  In this case, Jeff Berman, the U.S. Attorney of the Southern District of New York, went big game hunting.
[00:55:41]  I had been involved in a biotech company that was creating a drug to treat secondary progressive multiple sclerosis in Australia and New Zealand.
[00:55:51]  And there was a stock that was publicly traded in Australia, not in the United States.
[00:55:57]  Myself and my two children had stock in that company.
[00:56:02]  It turns out that the trial surprisingly failed.
[00:56:06]  And I did share those results with my son.
[00:56:10]  And as the chairman of the board later said in a letter to the judge, every member of the board shared that information with their family because it was a trading halt on the stock in Australia where it was traded.
[00:56:22]  No one could trade it.
[00:56:23]  Unbeknownst to me, my son had moved his stock into the U.S. with a brokerage firm.
[00:56:29]  And surprisingly for all of us, NASDAQ did not honor the trading halt.
[00:56:35]  And the surprise was the next morning, the stock was being traded on NASDAQ, what they call the pink sheets off-market.
[00:56:45]  And my 24-year-old son did sell some of his stock.
[00:56:50]  I didn't know his fiancé had also bought a few hundred shares.
[00:56:54]  She sold her stock.
[00:56:56]  And when he called me the next morning, there was nothing more I could do about it other than to say, you know, that shouldn't have happened.
[00:57:05]  We're not going to talk about it.
[00:57:07]  And let's just move on.
[00:57:09]  Well, Jeff Berman saw an opportunity to leverage my son to come after me, even though I never sold any stock, was never accused of it.
[00:57:18]  It was a trading halt on the stock when I called my son with the information.
[00:57:24]  But that whole story revolved around what the Department of Justice does.
[00:57:29]  They typically leverage family where they can.
[00:57:32]  And in my case, they leveraged my son, basically forcing me, in my opinion, to plead guilty to a charge of conspiracy to commit insider trading because I didn't trade.
[00:57:45]  And the FBI had knocked on my door, set me up, and claimed I made a false statement, which I did not do.
[00:57:53]  But they charged me with making a false statement.
[00:57:55]  And I was frankly forced to plead guilty to those two charges in order to take some pressure off the situation with my son.
[00:58:05]  And fortunately, by me taking the fall and then because of that, having to resign from Congress, my son ultimately was just given a sentence of probation.
[00:58:15]  Whereas they did send me to federal prison.
[00:58:17]  That's a chapter in my book, which was really mortifying to me.
[00:58:21]  But I think people who will go on Amazon maybe today and buy my book, My Remarkable Life, they'll be horrified at what I was put through for 10 weeks before President Trump did pardon me on December 22nd of 2020, three days before Christmas.
[00:58:40]  I was home for Christmas, and then I had to basically rebuild my life.
[00:58:46]  Took me a good three years to climb out of the shell I was in.
[00:58:50]  I was embarrassed.
[00:58:51]  you know, convicted felon, yes, with a pardon, but nevertheless, convicted felon.
[00:58:58]  So it took me a good three years, Mark, maybe four, before I was able to, you know, walk with my shoulders high, my head held high.
[00:59:07]  And now I am back and I am running for Congress again.
[00:59:12]  I intend to win and go back to serve with President Trump for the last two years now of his second administration.
[00:59:21]  Yeah.
[00:59:21]  A couple of follow-ups for you.
[00:59:22]  First of all, I have a friend who went to prison.
[00:59:25]  He was indicted for things that he didn't believe he did, that he was seals the way you do, but he pled guilty as well because his lawyers told him it was the right thing to do.
[00:59:38]  I think some Americans would say, if you were innocent, why plead guilty?
[00:59:41]  And I know you explained a little bit.
[00:59:43]  You did it to take pressure off your son, but is it possible that it would have been better to go to a trial and try to fight it?
[00:59:52]  Well, no, I would not have been convicted at a trial.
[00:59:54]  The case against me had completely fallen apart.
[00:59:57]  Jeff Berman, the political U.S. attorney, admitted that in a book he wrote.
[01:00:03]  And he even admitted in the book that they leveraged my son, thinking that would force me to plead guilty, which it did.
[01:00:11]  And, you know, Mark, if you look, and there have been a lot of reports on this, in the federal system, 98%, 98% of all individuals charged with a federal crime plead guilty.
[01:00:25]  They do so because typically they leverage family where they can, in my case, and also General Flynn, but they threaten you with 50 years in federal prison.
[01:00:37]  They charged me with 11 felonies, 11, where would have been 40 years of my son the same way?
[01:00:45]  I made a six-minute phone call, never sold any stock.
[01:00:48]  And I was looking at what could have been literally a 40-year sentence in prison.
[01:00:56]  I chose to, which 98% of all individuals charged.
[01:01:01]  And the reports say it is a department of injustice.
[01:01:05]  They leverage family.
[01:01:07]  They overcharge with the threat of decades in prison.
[01:01:11]  And that's why 98%, whether you're guilty or not, plead guilty to reduce their exposure.
[01:01:18]  What can be done?
[01:01:19]  What can be done?
[01:01:20]  And this is a big cause for the president.
[01:01:22]  It's a big cause for MAGA.
[01:01:24]  It's a big cause for liberals who get caught up in the same thing, any family that's gone through this.
[01:01:30]  So out-of-control prosecutors, political prosecutors, prosecutions that leverage family, no one would say that that's right.
[01:01:38]  What's the solution in our society to try to keep that from happening?
[01:01:43]  How can that be part of how justice works in America?
[01:01:47]  Well, the difficult thing is a lot of these U.S. attorneys, and in fact, even the judge in my case, had been a former prosecutor in the same southern district of New York.
[01:01:57]  He ruled against every single motion we made.
[01:02:01]  And just so the listeners know this, this was 2020 in the midst of the COVID pandemic.
[01:02:07]  I was 70 years old with underlying health conditions, and they forced me into that federal prison on October 13th of 2020.
[01:02:17]  There was no treatments for COVID.
[01:02:18]  It was in the worst possible state.
[01:02:20]  They put my life in jeopardy because there was a rumor I might be pardoned, and they wanted me behind bars prior to being pardoned.
[01:02:30]  And they forced me in and put my life at risk, both the judge and the prosecutor.
[01:02:36]  So, you know, let's start with an FBI interview.
[01:02:40]  They don't record interviews.
[01:02:42]  One person is asking questions.
[01:02:44]  Another one is writing down what they think they heard or what they think might.
[01:02:49]  turn into a charge in my case of making a false statement, which I did not do.
[01:02:54]  But there's no tape recording.
[01:02:55]  So the simplest thing we can do is force the FBI, like every other agent's agency, to tape record the interview.
[01:03:07]  In my case, that would show I did not make a false statement.
[01:03:12]  That one could be easily done.
[01:03:13]  The rest of it, though, the overcharging, in my case, 11 felonies for a six-minute phone call when I didn't even sell any stock.
[01:03:22]  I guess that's just unprofessional behavior.
[01:03:25]  And I'm not sure exactly how we get to the bottom of that because these U.S. attorneys pretty much are unfettered.
[01:03:32]  And if they're big game hunting, they know they can, at the end of the day, get a guilty plea, you know, because they've charged somebody like me or my son with potentially four decades in prison.
[01:03:43]  Yeah.
[01:03:44]  It's unfortunate that even someone as thoughtful as you is connected to public policy and obviously had the searing experience.
[01:03:52]  It's unfortunate that you're pretty limited in what you can recommend because prosecutors have a lot of power.
[01:04:00]  I want to ask you one more question about this on a personal level and then I want to move on to politics.
[01:04:05]  I know the answer to the question of did people start to treat you differently in your neighborhood, in your community, in politics?
[01:04:11]  I know the answer is yes.
[01:04:13]  What separated, in your mind, the people who stood by you from the people who walked away from you?
[01:04:19]  Well, Mark, my friends stood by me.
[01:04:23]  When I was looking at a potential, you know, four decade prison sentence, I had 137 people, which is unheard of, many, many members of Congress write letters saying, we know Chris Collins.
[01:04:39]  We know he's a thoughtful person with family man, with integrity.
[01:04:44]  We ask that he be treated in that manner as the criminal justice system issues a sentence.
[01:04:53]  People that knew me, and they all knew I never sold stock, understood, you know, my standing beside my son.
[01:05:03]  So your friends and your family will stand with you.
[01:05:08]  In my case, after many, many, many decades of public service and success in the private sector.
[01:05:15]  So I guess my reputation, even though it was trashed with a guilty plea that made me a convicted felon, thank God my friends did stand with me during those very, very dark days.
[01:05:29]  That doesn't happen with a lot of folks.
[01:05:32]  Again, we're talking to author, former member of Congress, maybe future member of Congress, Chris Collins, new book, My Remarkable Life, available now.
[01:05:40]  He was the first sitting member of Congress to endorse Donald Trump back in the first campaign, the 2016 campaign.
[01:05:47]  You have an I'll call this, you know, there's this whole image of Florida as kind of a wacky place, and I think it's pretty well earned.
[01:05:57]  You're running in the district where currently Byron Donalds, who's running for governor, is.
[01:06:02]  And here are some of the, here's the descriptions of some of the people running in your primary.
[01:06:06]  And the winner of the primary is almost certainly going to be elected a member of Congress because of the nature of the district.
[01:06:12]  A guy who is a retired medical salesman, a guy who owns a media company, Jim Oberweiss, former Illinois state senator who's run for a bunch of stuff, a jeweler, a former advisor to a member of Congress, an HVAC installer, and then Madison Cawthorne, who used to be a congressman from North Carolina.
[01:06:34]  Am I right that you're the favorite to win the nomination?
[01:06:37]  Is that fair to say?
[01:06:38]  Well, Mark, I have a lot of support.
[01:06:39]  And what I have is a resume of success and accomplishments in both the private sector as an entrepreneur that's created thousands of jobs with 22 separate companies, and also as a successful politician, the county executive of Erie County, New York, based in Buffalo, when it was bankrupt when I was elected, and then elected and re-elected to four terms in Congress, 2012, 14, 16, and 18.
[01:07:07]  So my resume of success and accomplishments dwarfs all of the others who are saying, here's what I think I may do if you elect me.
[01:07:16]  Well, I've got a resume of accomplishments.
[01:07:19]  I passed the Firefighter Cancer Registry Act that was signed into law and many others, six total bills that I sponsored were signed into law, which is a bit unusual.
[01:07:31]  I served on the Energy and Commerce Committee.
[01:07:33]  So my resume of accomplishments and success do separate me from all the other, what will probably be 14 other candidates.
[01:07:43]  So one thing that I don't, unless I missed it, one thing that's not on your resume is endorsed candidate by Donald John Trump.
[01:07:50]  And of course, you did endorse him.
[01:07:51]  You expect the president to endorse you in this race.
[01:07:55]  Let's just say I will be addressing that after the first of the year when I really kick things off.
[01:08:02]  The election's not till August 18th.
[01:08:04]  It's still nine months away.
[01:08:06]  So I will be approaching him at some point there in January.
[01:08:11]  I would certainly very much appreciate his endorsement.
[01:08:15]  One thing I can say, he may just decide to take a timeout.
[01:08:19]  This is a Republican seat, 6535.
[01:08:22]  It's not a purple seat.
[01:08:24]  Whoever wins the primary on August 18th will be the next member of Congress for this area.
[01:08:31]  So I'm fairly confident he won't endorse anyone else, but they decide to take a timeout.
[01:08:38]  Yeah, I mean, I'll say, I'm going to say this, and you can respond if you want.
[01:08:43]  But my view is my experience in Republican primaries in almost every district in America is if the president endorses a candidate, it's dispositive.
[01:08:52]  There's no fundraising and other endorsements, nothing else matters.
[01:08:55]  And given your history with the president, that you were the first for him, stood loyally by him after what happened with Access Hollywood, a big supporter of his, the fact that he felt strongly enough about you to give you a pardon.
[01:09:07]  I would be, I'd be surprised if the president didn't endorse you.
[01:09:10]  I'm not saying you can't win the primary without him, but I'd be surprised if you didn't.
[01:09:15]  Well, I hope that's the case, Mark, but you can't take anything for granted.
[01:09:19]  I will say, assuming, let's say he did not, and he just stayed out of the race, I can tell you, you know, the photos of me on Air Force One in the Oval Office, meetings in the Roosevelt room, and so forth.
[01:09:31]  My campaign will be many, many direct mail pieces or advertising with the president at my side.
[01:09:40]  So the voters in the 19th Congressional District of Florida will certainly know about my background and support with President Trump as my campaign moves forward.
[01:09:52]  But I agree with you, if I was able to get his endorsement, that would pretty much be a game changer.
[01:09:59]  Yeah.
[01:10:00]  One of the things we try to do on this program is educate people in the country about what Donald Trump's really like.
[01:10:07]  Because I say all the time, I've never read a New York Times or Washington Post story that accurately describes the president, how he is with people, his personality, et cetera.
[01:10:15]  And I say that not as you are a big supporter of the president, it's just as a journalist who's interested in people understanding the truth.
[01:10:21]  So tell people, because you've spent so much time with him, what are things about the president that you think normal consumers of normal media, even conservative media, what are things you've seen about him, observed about him that you think is not accurately captured and wouldn't be commonly known to folks?

=== Stay The Course Advice (05:20) ===

[01:10:37]  Well, let's start with the fact he is the most loyal individual that ever walked.
[01:10:43]  And I think people do see some of that.
[01:10:45]  There was some controversy about Susie Wiles over the last couple of days and an interview with Vanity Fair.
[01:10:51]  And it took President Trump two seconds to stand beside her and support her.
[01:10:57]  So his loyalty is truly amazing.
[01:11:02]  But I think that the most surprising thing, because he's very opinionated and you hear that in press conferences, in meetings, he's very quiet.
[01:11:12]  He's very thoughtful.
[01:11:14]  He asks everyone at the table, whether it's two people or 15, what do you think?
[01:11:21]  Tell me your thoughts.
[01:11:23]  I can remember it's in my book, one of the first meetings of his campaign team where I was in the meeting, Kelly Ann Conway.
[01:11:32]  At one point, the president, after listening, turned to Kelly Ann and said, what will the women, Kelly, think of this situation with ISIS and so forth?
[01:11:44]  And she was pretty funny.
[01:11:45]  She said, well, Mr. Trump, 72.6% of the women in America will support your decision, at which point he turned to the team and said, all right, that's what we're going to do.
[01:11:55]  And when he makes a decision, you better march with him.
[01:12:00]  But the fact that he's a quiet listener, probing and asking the opinions of everyone around them before he makes the decision, I think most people would find that surprising.
[01:12:12]  They think he just jumps to conclusions, which he absolutely does not do.
[01:12:17]  He makes his decisions based on facts and input.
[01:12:20]  But I can also assure everyone, when he makes the decision, you better follow his lead moving forward.
[01:12:28]  Is he a funny guy?
[01:12:30]  He's very funny.
[01:12:31]  He's a human being.
[01:12:33]  You know, he, yes, he jokes around.
[01:12:40]  He and I, you know, we had a kind of a special relationship.
[01:12:43]  I'd sit next to him in the Roosevelt room and people would always ask for his autographs.
[01:12:48]  You know, I've been known to poke him in the side as he's speaking and say, Mr. President, could you autograph these for some of my friends?
[01:12:55]  And he'd look at me and he'd say, okay.
[01:12:57]  And then he'd start signing away, autographing things in the middle of a meeting.
[01:13:02]  No, he's funny.
[01:13:03]  He's a human being.
[01:13:05]  He's a great guy to be around.
[01:13:08]  And he just happens to be the leader of the world.
[01:13:11]  If he called you this afternoon and said, Chris, tell me what I could be doing better in this job.
[01:13:18]  What's something I could improve and how I'm doing lately?
[01:13:20]  What would you tell him, something he could improve in?
[01:13:23]  Well, I think I'm not going to give him a, one thing I'm not going to do right now is give him advice as he's facing things that no one's ever faced, whether it's Venezuela and now the oil boycott.
[01:13:35]  I would basically just say, Mr. President, stay the course.
[01:13:38]  You know, you are making the progress you would promise.
[01:13:42]  You've made the country safe again.
[01:13:44]  You're making the world safe.
[01:13:46]  You know, with Robert Kennedy, you're making the country healthy again.
[01:13:52]  I would just simply, my advice would be stay the course.
[01:13:55]  And the good news is he's not running for reelection.
[01:13:58]  So he can do what's right without any thoughts of public opinion.
[01:14:02]  You know, we all care about what the public thinks, but he's more focused on doing the right thing, knowing it's still early in his, this administration.
[01:14:11]  He's got three more years as things will start to come together, what's the economy and other things, you know, affordability.
[01:14:19]  You know, he was just dealt a tough hand, a disaster of the Biden years.
[01:14:24]  So, no, my advice to him is stay the course.
[01:14:27]  All right, Congressman, very grateful to you for making time.
[01:14:30]  My Remarkable Life is a remarkable book, and it's a story unlike any other.
[01:14:34]  It's an incredible American story about someone, extraordinary success in business and in politics, and then a brush with the law that was certainly a pivot point, leave Congress after building a relationship with an unexpected president, and now back in society, at the table, and trying to return to a job that not everybody in America wants, but the congressman wants to go back and do it and try it again.
[01:14:59]  And we'll watch your primary with great interest and look forward to seeing after the first of the year whether you get that endorsement.
[01:15:05]  Congressman, grateful to you.
[01:15:06]  Congratulations on the book and Merry Christmas to you.
[01:15:09]  Yeah, same to you, Mark.
[01:15:11]  Very much enjoyed this.
[01:15:12]  All right.
[01:15:12]  That's it for today's program.
[01:15:14]  We'll be back next year.
[01:15:15]  It's the last one of 2025, but we'll have all new episodes the first week of January.
[01:15:19]  Wishing all nextters a very happy holiday, very Merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah.
[01:15:23]  You can subscribe to the program on YouTube and you may watch it every week, but once or twice a week, but go to YouTube and hit the subscribe button if you haven't done that yet.
[01:15:33]  That makes sure you get notified about all the new content.
[01:15:35]  And of course, same with the podcast stuff and share it with people.
[01:15:38]  Tell people as you gather for the holidays when they say, what do you like to listen to?
[01:15:42]  Everybody always asks each other, what podcast do you like?
[01:15:45]  Tell them you like next up and subscribe and tell them how they can become a nexter so they will be like you in 2026.
[01:15:52]  They'll always know what's coming next up.
[01:15:54]  Merry Christmas.
[01:15:55]  Happy holidays, everyone.
[01:15:56]  Mary 2026.