The Megyn Kelly Show - New Details About Epstein's REAL Associations, and Meghan Deleted From Kardashian Pics, with Maureen Callahan  |  Ep. 1193
Aired: 2025-11-13
Duration: 02:08:31


=== Epstein Tapes and Trump Allegations (11:11) ===

[00:00:00]  Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.
[00:00:12]  Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.
[00:00:14]  I'm Megan Kelly.
[00:00:15]  We begin today with Jeffrey Epstein, convicted felon, pervert, abuser of women, and yes, at one point, a long time ago, friend of Donald Trump.
[00:00:24]  Epstein also met with people like Katie Couric, George Stephanopoulos, the Dalai Lama, reportedly many, many others who are not guilty of crimes just because they spent some time with the criminal, Epstein.
[00:00:36]  Epstein's back in the news this week, six years after he died in prison, awaiting trial on charges of sex trafficking minors.
[00:00:43]  In the never-ending quest to finally know everything there is to know about Jeffrey Epstein and his dastardly deeds, the House Oversight Committee subpoenaed Epstein's estate for his emails and related documents, and lo and behold, they got them.
[00:00:56]  Now every media outlet known to man is reporting on every word Epstein penned related to Donald Trump in a mad search to tie the president to the disgraced financier's sexual crimes.
[00:01:09]  So far, it hasn't worked, but this is a pathetic and blatant piece of proof that these people don't care at all about sex trafficking victims.
[00:01:20]  The media cares about one thing and one thing only, getting Donald Trump.
[00:01:25]  And this effort to turn the Epstein story into the Trump story completely undermines the actual search for truth when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein, which is why many of us resent these Johnny come lately's from finally getting interested in the story.
[00:01:43]  We've been covering the Epstein case for years here at the MK Show, long before it was a Trump witch hunt.
[00:01:48]  And many of the names surfacing in these emails that are hitting the public eye are familiar to us.
[00:01:54]  Given that Epstein is back in the news, we thought now would be the perfect time to bring you an update on a story we first told you about nearly two years ago.
[00:02:04]  You may remember way back in January 2024, I said something on this show that went viral.
[00:02:12]  I said I believed we would be hearing from Jeffrey Epstein directly sometime soon.
[00:02:21]  We're not done with Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:02:23]  I can tell you that for a fact.
[00:02:24]  I can't tell you how I know, but I can tell you for a fact, we're going to hear a lot more about Jeffrey Epstein in the coming year.
[00:02:31]  And you may be even hearing from him directly.
[00:02:35]  More on that as I'm allowed to tell you.
[00:02:38]  I later clarified because some people misunderstood that I was not implying Epstein was still alive, just that I knew there were tapes of the man and I had reason to believe they would be made public soon.
[00:02:50]  And the reason I knew that was I've heard some of them.
[00:02:54]  You see, author Michael Wolf has tapes of Jeffrey Epstein, hours and hours and hours of tapes.
[00:03:02]  Tapes he was shopping around.
[00:03:04]  And it was clear to me then and now it was only a matter of time before they were published.
[00:03:10]  11 months after my prediction that we would hear tapes of Jeffrey Epstein, we did.
[00:03:16]  Michael Wolf himself played and allowed to be played a small portion of one of his tapes.
[00:03:24]  Thing is, this was October 31st, 2024, six days before the presidential election.
[00:03:29]  News was at a fever pitch, and Wolf's planned October surprise landed with a complete thud.
[00:03:36]  Even he admitted that.
[00:03:38]  That week, Wolf released one short excerpt of the tapes and also gave left-wing media outlet The Daily Beast access to nearly two hours of the tapes.
[00:03:48]  He also confirmed publicly at that time that he has up to 100 hours of tape of Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:03:56]  A clip here from Wolf's podcast, Fire and Fury, October 31st, 2024.
[00:04:04]  I had many secret sources, but this was a particular secret source.
[00:04:09]  Quite particular.
[00:04:10]  It was Trump's old friend, Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:04:15]  That Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:04:17]  I think we have a snippet from one of the conversations that I recorded with Epstein, and I think this was in a restaurant in 2017.
[00:04:27]  His people fight each other, right?
[00:04:30]  And then outsiders, he sort of poisons the well outside.
[00:04:36]  He will tell 10 people Banning's a scumbag and Chris is not doing a good job and Kelly has a big mouth.
[00:04:44]  What do you think?
[00:04:45]  Jamie Diamond says you're a prop and I shouldn't keep you.
[00:04:50]  And I spoke to Carl Icon.
[00:04:52]  And Carl thinks I need a new spokesperson.
[00:04:55]  So Kelly, even though I hired Kelly Ann's husband, Kellyanne is just too much of a wild dog.
[00:05:04]  And then he tells Banning thinking, I really want to keep you, but Kellyanne hates you.
[00:05:11]  I have more than dozens.
[00:05:13]  I probably have 100 hours of Epstein talking about the inner workings of the Trump White House and about his long-standing, deep relationship with Donald Trump.
[00:05:30]  An unflattering excerpt about Donald Trump, not a huge surprise, as Wolf is clearly not a fan of Trump's.
[00:05:37]  He wrote a scathing biography about Donald Trump in 2018 called Fire and Fury.
[00:05:45]  While Trump cooperated with the book, for some reason people keep cooperating with Michael Wolfe.
[00:05:49]  They always wind up unhappy.
[00:05:52]  Trump attacked it as soon as it hit, criticizing its author and alleging that it was full of lies.
[00:05:57]  Lies.
[00:05:58]  The podcast Wolf released on October 31st, 2024, seemed a clear effort to hurt Donald Trump before the vote.
[00:06:06]  The Trump campaign at the time called the move election interference.
[00:06:10]  Wolf said on that show that he, Wolf, had become an outlet for Epstein, quote, to express his incredulity about someone whose sins he knew so well, and then this person actually being elected president.
[00:06:25]  Wolf described Epstein as, quote, utterly preoccupied with Trump.
[00:06:30]  Epstein was, Wolf said, quote, I think, frankly, afraid of him.
[00:06:35]  As mentioned, Wolf shared more of his secret tapes at this same time with media site The Daily Beast.
[00:06:42]  One hour and 44 minutes, in fact.
[00:06:45]  The Beast reporting on November 2nd, 2024, three days before the election, that it had listened to this tape and provided many, many details from it in its reporting, including two excerpts.
[00:06:58]  Its piece began, quote, Epstein painted a complicated portrait of Trump.
[00:07:02]  He called him charming and always fun, capable of extraordinary salesmanship.
[00:07:07]  But But he alleged Trump was a serial cheat in his marriages and loved to, quote, F the wives of his best friends.
[00:07:14]  Epstein, the Daily Beast claimed, could be heard on these tapes alleging that while Trump had friends, he was at heart, quote, a friendless man incapable of kindness.
[00:07:26]  Asked by Michael Wolf how Epstein knew all of this, Epstein responds, quote, I was Donald's closest friend for 10 years.
[00:07:36]  Epstein says on the tape, Per The Beast, that Trump had an elaborate scheme to procure sex with his friends' wives and goes into detail about how Mr. Trump allegedly did this, supposedly by getting the husband to agree on the phone to cheat on his wife with a young woman that Trump would procure while the wife was secretly listening to that conversation.
[00:07:56]  Then Epstein reportedly claims that Trump would say to the wife, see, he's a bad guy.
[00:08:00]  Why not consider sex with me?
[00:08:02]  This is a story Wolfe had already told in his 2018 book, Fire and Fury, and which The Beast effectively verified was sourced to Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:08:13]  Here is an excerpt published from the tapes by The Daily Beast of Epstein.
[00:08:20]  So how do you know this?
[00:08:27]  So I need the, I need the, the Donald, just give me the Donald.
[00:08:37]  It's fun.
[00:08:41]  You probably know he has scalp reduction.
[00:08:44]  Because he had the same male pattern that we all have.
[00:08:48]  He had his scalp hysterical.
[00:08:53]  Donald's offices, you know, he made that.
[00:08:56]  He used to be on the phone with that.
[00:08:57]  He's fake PR or something.
[00:09:00]  And it was kind of funny.
[00:09:01]  I was sitting there listening to the guys from the postcard and Donald would say, you know, he's a great guy.
[00:09:08]  You know, I love working with him.
[00:09:11]  And I sit there and go, this is just amazing.
[00:09:13]  And he'd say, Michael, come up, let's go to the office.
[00:09:18]  And he'd say, tell me, what is like, what's like there?
[00:09:22]  He'd say, you know, you like having sex with your wife.
[00:09:26]  How often can they?
[00:09:28]  He'd say, looks great.
[00:09:30]  Seriously, Michael, how often can we get sex with you?
[00:09:33]  We don't just want to truly.
[00:09:35]  You and I can go upstairs or tomorrow, come over.
[00:09:39]  There's this girl's coming in from Los Angeles, part of the Hawaiian traffic cuts.
[00:09:49]  All right, so come over here, Car.
[00:09:53]  You're going to have a great time.
[00:09:54]  I promise you, Michael, you know, it's just me.
[00:09:57]  You're going to have a great time.
[00:09:59]  Be up here at 3 o'clock.
[00:10:00]  We can go upstairs.
[00:10:02]  That whole time, Victoria's been on his out of public.
[00:10:06]  Listen, he's setting it out because he wants a f ⁇ ing story.
[00:10:11]  Come on, you must.
[00:10:14]  You must have had a better wife, right?
[00:10:16]  I said, yes.
[00:10:18]  Tell me about it.
[00:10:19]  And the wife's on the speaker.
[00:10:21]  Listen, Donald would say, you know, I know you're drunk.
[00:10:24]  I think you're really hot.
[00:10:26]  And I know you think you're a guy.
[00:10:28]  Michael, like the head of the world, the best guy on Earth.
[00:10:31]  He's going to be married.
[00:10:33]  You'll know.
[00:10:34]  Just listen for the next 20 minutes.
[00:10:39]  Set you up.
[00:10:41]  Okay.
[00:10:42]  That was kind of hard to hear.
[00:10:43]  If you go to our YouTube channel, youtube.com slash Megan Kelly, you'll see it transcribed on the screen at 10 after the hour.
[00:10:49]  So go 10 minutes into our YouTube show and it posts later.
[00:10:52]  But it was in essence exactly what I said in the setup.
[00:10:55]  It was him using Michael Wolfe, who he was talking to, as the example of how Trump might do this.
[00:11:00]  You, Michael, your wife, Victoria, she's secretly listening.
[00:11:03]  Oh, you must have had sex with people other than your wife.
[00:11:05]  Tell me what that was about while the wife was allegedly listening, and then the end pivot to, like, hey, wife, here I am.

=== The Charm of a Prolific Liar (02:55) ===

[00:11:12]  That's basically what Epstein was alleging Trump used to do.
[00:11:17]  On the tape, Epstein also can be heard attacking Trump's intelligence and his character.
[00:11:22]  Here is the second excerpt published by The Beast last November.
[00:11:28]  So just tell me about his intelligence with respect to real estate deals.
[00:11:45]  Brilliant.
[00:11:46]  He's a salesman, he knows real estate really well.
[00:11:52]  Anything else but that, he knows nothing.
[00:11:56]  No history, no strategy.
[00:11:59]  And when I start to say about executive function, executive functions is, and it's strange because construction, by definition, is just that.
[00:12:08]  First, you have the foundation, you have the steels going up, what stage.
[00:12:14]  But in terms of his anything but real estate, he can't figure out if I fire Bannon what happens tomorrow.
[00:12:23]  So, cause and effect, he has no, that has no relationship.
[00:12:27]  And analytic intelligence, no.
[00:12:31]  Now, what's this thing about that functionally he can't read or he doesn't read or he doesn't really he certainly certainly can't read a balance sheet, which is funny.
[00:12:47]  Has no idea he doesn't read page six, he reads page six, so he's not functionally for literally but his reading comprehension is anything complicated and going well now.
[00:13:18]  What's other than he has a sense of humor, he can be funny.
[00:13:26]  What else recommends him?
[00:13:30]  His ability to sell.
[00:13:36]  He is charming, he is able to convince people.
[00:13:41]  It's very much like Clinton.
[00:13:43]  Both Bill and Donald have the ability to go over to a fat, ugly woman, say, You are the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.
[00:13:57]  So, he tells everybody what they want to hear.
[00:14:03]  And I'm telling you that I know four or five people who have recently seen him.

=== Julie Brown's Unchecked Legal Threats (14:50) ===

[00:14:07]  He's a horrible dude in Jefferson's book.
[00:14:13]  He does nasty things to his best friends, best friends' wives.
[00:14:17]  Anyone who first tries to gain the trust and then uses it to do bad things for you.
[00:14:26]  That's how it goes.
[00:14:29]  Keep in mind, this is a man, Epstein, who is known as a liar, prolific liar.
[00:14:34]  He was reportedly thrown out of Mar-a-Lago by Donald Trump after pursuing young women there, and whose friendship with Trump was ended by Trump.
[00:14:44]  Wolf claimed on his Halloween 2024 podcast that Epstein actually blamed Trump for Epstein's growing legal troubles.
[00:14:53]  It started when the two men both attempted to purchase a Florida mansion.
[00:14:57]  Trump had the higher bid and got the property.
[00:15:01]  Listen here to the Fire and Fury excerpt.
[00:15:04]  Epstein was pissed.
[00:15:05]  Yeah, of course.
[00:15:06]  And he began to threaten lawsuits and he began to threaten press exposure.
[00:15:11]  I mean, he was really, really, really pissed when those guys lose a dream house.
[00:15:16]  Yeah.
[00:15:17]  And that was the point at which Epstein's own legal problems, the problems with the girls began.
[00:15:26]  And certainly in Epstein's telling, this all happened because it was Trump who first dropped the dime on him.
[00:15:33]  Oh, is that?
[00:15:34]  And Trump would have known about the girls because he was in and out of Epstein's house.
[00:15:40]  Yeah.
[00:15:40]  When Epstein and I were talking about this and Trump was now the president of the United States.
[00:15:49]  So the version of Epstein talking to Michael Wolfe appears to be a jilted friend who blames his legal troubles on Trump.
[00:15:56]  Don't forget they started back in 2008 when he was accused of soliciting sex from a minor and who has watched his hated ex-friend become president of the United States.
[00:16:08]  The Trump campaign, when all these allegations were published, the tapes and the Michael Wolfe podcast right before he was elected president again, the Trump campaign in 24 denied all of these allegations, attacking Michael Wolfe as, quote, a disgraced writer who routinely fabricates lies in order to sell fiction books because he clearly has no morals or ethics.
[00:16:30]  When Fire and Fury, the book, came out six years before this October surprise, the White House called it trashy tabloid fiction, saying it was filled with false and misleading accounts.
[00:16:44]  All of which brings us to today.
[00:16:47]  Where are the remaining 98 hours of Epstein tapes?
[00:16:51]  Wolf says he has 100 or so, maybe more.
[00:16:55]  In that tape, he says, I have 100 of hours of him talking about Trump.
[00:17:00]  So maybe he has even more of him just talking, period.
[00:17:04]  One hour and 44 minutes were provided to the Daily Beast.
[00:17:07]  A few minutes of that was played on Wolf's podcast.
[00:17:11]  So what gives?
[00:17:12]  Where's the rest of it?
[00:17:14]  Well, we at the Megan Kelly show can confirm that more tapes do indeed exist.
[00:17:18]  We know because my team and I have heard some of them.
[00:17:22]  The tapes have not been made public because we have been told they are part of an unknown unreleased project.
[00:17:30]  Who's doing the project?
[00:17:31]  Who now owns the tapes?
[00:17:33]  I don't know.
[00:17:35]  We do not have a copy of them, nor do we know the plans for them.
[00:17:38]  But we do recall some of what we heard on them.
[00:17:41]  We heard a conversation from April 2019, which is five months after Julie K. Brown's explosive reporting on Epstein that really led to the end for him and young women in the Miami Herald.
[00:17:54]  That led to renewed national scrutiny on Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:17:57]  It talked basically just, it was all about how Epstein had negotiated some three dozen women coming forward, young women, 13 to 15, 13 to 16, coming forward against Jeffrey Epstein at the time.
[00:18:11]  And the local PD, she wrote, was doing its job trying to process all these claims.
[00:18:16]  And then eventually it became so huge, they brought in the feds.
[00:18:19]  This is under the George W. Bush administration.
[00:18:21]  It was 2007 that this first unfolded.
[00:18:24]  Obama didn't take office till January of 2009.
[00:18:28]  And so this thing was growing back then against Epstein.
[00:18:32]  And that's when Alan Dershowitz came in.
[00:18:34]  He represented Jeffrey Epstein and he got him the sweetheart deal of the century, where they made all these women go away by not involving them in the plea.
[00:18:44]  They didn't tell the women that they were copying a plea with this guy.
[00:18:46]  They actually told the women that the case was ongoing, which is a violation of their rights and led in part to some of the payouts these women got.
[00:18:53]  It's totally unfair to them.
[00:18:55]  They never had their day in court because of what the feds did with Epstein at that time.
[00:19:00]  They struck a sweetheart plea deal with him where he got to plead guilty to solicitation of prostitution from a minor, which is not a thing.
[00:19:08]  Minors cannot prostitute themselves.
[00:19:10]  That's called statutory rape.
[00:19:14]  So that's what Epstein was going through.
[00:19:16]  That's what they were suggesting.
[00:19:17]  He was blaming on Trump, that Trump somehow dropped a dime on him at the time after this failed real estate deal or this fight they had over either real estate or seeking girls at Mar-a-Lago.
[00:19:28]  We just don't know.
[00:19:28]  We've had different stories told to us.
[00:19:30]  And he thought Trump was at the root of his legal problems.
[00:19:35]  But now in 2018, Julie K. Brown of the Miami Herald stumbles on the whole thing.
[00:19:39]  She sees this sweetheart deal.
[00:19:40]  He served, what, like a year and a half on house arrest, 12 hours a day were outside of the prison.
[00:19:46]  He was at his like office in this cushion environment.
[00:19:49]  He was out of jail six out of the seven days of the week.
[00:19:52]  And so she blew the lid off of this, that this guy, Alex Acosta, who was the U.S. attorney at the time covering this area of Florida, struck this deal with Alan Dershowitz and Epstein's other lawyers that was the deal of the century.
[00:20:04]  He did have to register as a sex offender.
[00:20:06]  And it allowed him to go on as a predator.
[00:20:10]  That's really what was so controversial about it, among other things, really.
[00:20:14]  And so she breaks this eight years or 10 years after he struck the deal, renewing massive amounts of scrutiny on Epstein, Alex Acosta, who by 2018 had become Trump's labor secretary.
[00:20:25]  He wound up having to leave the post after this reporting.
[00:20:28]  And that was, I think, November of 2018.
[00:20:31]  It was July of 2019 that Epstein got charged as a serial prolific sex trafficker.
[00:20:40]  Right.
[00:20:40]  So this Julie K. Brown article was explosive and did lead to all this renewed national scrutiny on Epstein.
[00:20:49]  So this is where he's talking on the tape that we heard.
[00:20:53]  It's April of 2019, just a few months after Julie K. Brown's reporting, but three months before Epstein would actually be arrested on the new gravely serious charges of sex trafficking minors.
[00:21:08]  On the tape that we heard, four power brokers are in a room.
[00:21:11]  They are brainstorming public relations strategies.
[00:21:14]  The goal to try to rehabilitate Epstein's image.
[00:21:19]  Epstein's there.
[00:21:20]  Steve Bannon is there, obviously a major player on the right.
[00:21:25]  Michael Wolf is also there.
[00:21:27]  But he is not just a journalistic observer.
[00:21:30]  He is an active participant, providing Epstein with his own PR advice.
[00:21:35]  This tracks with an extraordinary email exchange released yesterday between Wolf and Epstein from three years earlier, from a few years prior to this 2019 email that we heard.
[00:21:51]  It is dated December 15th.
[00:21:54]  Is it 2015 or 2016?
[00:21:57]  Yeah.
[00:21:58]  Okay.
[00:21:58]  It's December 15th, 2015, and carries over to December 16th, 2015.
[00:22:06]  In this exchange, Wolf sounds when he's writing to Epstein more like a crisis PR rep than he does an independent journalist, which he purports to be, by the way.
[00:22:17]  On December 15th, 2015, Wolf tells Epstein, quote, I hear CNN is planning to ask Trump tonight about his relationship with you, either on air or in Scrum afterward.
[00:22:28]  There was a CNN debate that night.
[00:22:30]  Epstein responds that same day, quote, if we were able to craft an answer for him, what do you think it should be?
[00:22:36]  Wolf responds the next day on the 16th, quote, I think you should let him hang himself.
[00:22:40]  If he says he hasn't been on the plane or to the house, then that gives you a valuable PR and political currency.
[00:22:47]  You can hang him in a way that potentially generates a positive benefit for you.
[00:22:52]  Or if it really looks like he could win, you could save him generating a debt.
[00:22:58]  CNN did not ask Trump about Epstein at all that night.
[00:23:02]  And in another stunning email, Wolf in October of 2016 writes to Epstein, quote, there's an opportunity to come forward this week and talk about Trump.
[00:23:15]  This is right before the election, in such a way that could garner you great sympathy and help finish him.
[00:23:22]  Interested?
[00:23:23]  Wolf posted a video on social media yesterday responding to these disclosures from these emails, but he did not address any of the ethical issues about his relationship with Epstein as a so-called journalist.
[00:23:38]  Instead, as you're now seeing in a pattern of events, Michael Wolf went after Donald Trump.
[00:23:46]  I have been trying to talk about this story for a very long time now.
[00:23:53]  And this is, well, perhaps we're getting close to the smoking gun.
[00:23:58]  Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump had the closest of relationships for more than a decade.
[00:24:05]  It's curious that Epstein's relationship with so many people in public life has damaged them considerably.
[00:24:16]  But the one person who he was closest to has not been held accountable.
[00:24:24]  That's Donald Trump.
[00:24:27]  I have, well, I released tapes of Epstein talking about this relationship before the election to really little effect.
[00:24:39]  What was Donald Trump's relationship to Jeffrey Epstein?
[00:24:44]  What's the nature of that relationship?
[00:24:47]  What did they do together?
[00:24:49]  And anything I think that can bring us closer to an answer to that question is central to our time.
[00:25:03]  Now, let's be clear.
[00:25:05]  When Michael Wolf released those excerpts that landed with the thud in October, on October 31st and via the Daily Beast, November 2nd, the election was November 5th of 2024.
[00:25:18]  He wanted to sink Trump.
[00:25:19]  That seems clear.
[00:25:21]  Why would he hold back the most damning piece of the tapes?
[00:25:25]  If he has more, if he's got Epstein on tape making it clear Trump trafficked girls, something equally awful, don't you think Michael Wolf would have released that days before the election?
[00:25:39]  So while he says we're getting close to the smoking gun, it seems clear to me he doesn't have it.
[00:25:45]  He doesn't have it.
[00:25:47]  I think it's clear he would have released it.
[00:25:50]  But back to what I do believe he does have.
[00:25:53]  I only know a sliver of it.
[00:25:55]  He knows the rest, and I don't know whether he's ever going to show us on the rest of those tapes.
[00:26:00]  But I want to go back to what we heard in the room with Epstein, Wolf, Bannon, and one other person, a woman.
[00:26:08]  We can at this time exclusively reveal that the fourth party in that room, never before publicly identified, was former Obama White House counsel Catherine Rumler.
[00:26:19]  Ms. Rumler is all over the emails that just hit yesterday, which show a very friendly relationship between her and Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:26:28]  She reportedly even showed up to Epstein's 2019 sex trafficking arraignment.
[00:26:33]  In Wolf's 2021 book, all right, now try to keep it straight because we're going to tell you about a meeting that was from April 2019.
[00:26:42]  Jeffrey Epstein allegedly killed himself in August of 2019, one month after he'd been charged with all these crimes.
[00:26:51]  And then in 2021, Wolf wrote another book.
[00:26:54]  In 2018, he had written Fast or Fury and Fire, whatever it was, Fire and Fury.
[00:27:02]  And then in 2021, after the meeting that we're discussing with you right now, he wrote another book called Too Famous.
[00:27:08]  And in that book, he revealed parts of this conversation I'm telling you about right now.
[00:27:12]  But interestingly, he holds a few things back.
[00:27:15]  He does not reveal, for example, this attorney's identity.
[00:27:20]  In the audio we heard, she's referred to as White House Counsel and Kathy.
[00:27:24]  So it's pretty clear to us who it is.
[00:27:26]  Now that we see her all over the email correspondence, even more so.
[00:27:30]  We reached out to Ms. Rummler on our reporting that she was in this meeting with Epstein and she declined to comment.
[00:27:36]  The tenor of the conversation is friendly and upbeat.
[00:27:40]  It sounds like friends having a good time, laughing and joking as they try to come up with ways to spin a known sex abuser back into the good graces of the public.
[00:27:47]  Now, just it's interesting.
[00:27:48]  Keep in mind, this is after.
[00:27:49]  He knows at this point about the Julie K. Brown reporting, and he knows additional legal charges could come his way.
[00:27:56]  That's what's interesting about the timing of this tape that we heard.
[00:27:59]  All right, so it's happening months before he would wind up dead.
[00:28:03]  The discussion in the audio begins with a bizarre and flippant conversation about prostitution and whether the average prostitute is underage or not.
[00:28:11]  Again, reminder, Epstein pleaded guilty in 2008 to solicitation of an underage prostitute.
[00:28:18]  Insert my refrain about how that's an impossibility.
[00:28:22]  He raped a young girl.
[00:28:24]  He didn't solicit a prostitute who was underage.
[00:28:27]  That's not a thing.
[00:28:29]  Bannon then quickly tries to change the topic, expressing his opinion that the core accusations against Epstein, that he is a rapist and a pedophile who is trafficking underage girls to his rich friends, are not true.
[00:28:43]  Bannon says Epstein does not have a legal strategy problem, but that his PR problems are metastasizing.
[00:28:50]  Bannon suggests a year of media training so Epstein could do an interview on a program like 60 Minutes.

=== Bannon's Media Training Strategy (13:57) ===

[00:28:57]  And both Bannon and Rumler express regret that Charlie Rose, who was brought down by a sexual harassment scandal of his own in 2017, was no longer available to do an interview on his show.
[00:29:09]  Yes, he would have been a friendly.
[00:29:11]  They were not wrong about that.
[00:29:13]  Wolf then brings up Gail King as a possible interviewer.
[00:29:17]  Bannon notes R. Kelly's disastrous interview with her went south because in his view, R. Kelly didn't prepare.
[00:29:23]  Note to Gail, it's not a great thing when they're talking about who could we get to do a softball interview and you are the second one mentioned after only sex pest Charlie Rose.
[00:29:37]  So telling these windows into these backroom conversations.
[00:29:41]  Wolf documented some of this conversation I'm telling you about, though notably not all, in that book I mentioned called Too Famous, which hit in 2021, revealing that Rumler chimed in, he doesn't name her, that she did not want Epstein videotaped in preparation for any interview with a 60 Minutes or whomever because it could be subject to a subpoena.
[00:30:09]  Listen to this exchange on the audio book of Too Famous that begins with the attorney we are now identifying as Rumler in her argument with Steve Bannon.
[00:30:23]  I'm not opposed to media training.
[00:30:25]  I just don't want a videotape out there.
[00:30:28]  He's got to sit there and watch the tape all the time.
[00:30:31]  That's how you learn.
[00:30:32]  This is like preparing for a deposition, except this is preparing for the court of public opinion.
[00:30:38]  That's my point.
[00:30:39]  He never had to prepare for a deposition because he just takes the fifth.
[00:30:44]  Now you're setting him up to answer questions he can't answer.
[00:30:48]  And certainly, if he answers them, they're not going to rehabilitate him.
[00:30:52]  She was only 16, but full of tattoos, so 16, but not like a good person who's 16.
[00:30:59]  Really, continued Bannon, there has got to be a way to answer that in an acceptable way.
[00:31:06]  I don't know what the answer is, but you have got to figure out the basic positioning, which should have been done 15 years ago.
[00:31:14]  We're trying to show remorse or whatever we're trying to show.
[00:31:17]  However, we get there, we've got to get this to the point on Gail King so that the big reveal is that he's not a monster.
[00:31:25]  He's human, ashamed, mortified.
[00:31:30]  Very interesting.
[00:31:31]  Okay, so that's the audio reader depicting an exchange between Bannon and Rumler.
[00:31:36]  Notably excluded from Wolfe's book is Wolf's own role in this exchange.
[00:31:41]  He's openly advising Epstein again in this conversation on how to minimize his alleged crimes.
[00:31:47]  Epstein does not appear to be taking it seriously at all, asking at one point, who's going to play me on Saturday Night Live.
[00:31:54]  More from the audio book of Too Famous, depicting here a conversation Wolfe says he had with Steve Bannon, comparing the media training to that a professional athlete would get when studying game tape.
[00:32:10]  There's a process here of getting him on camera and having him study it like you study NFL films, like Tom Brady, that's.
[00:32:19]  Do you think he can actually do this, even studying?
[00:32:23]  I'm here, by the way guys, Grandpa's up in the attic, he's still here, said a shrugging Epstein.
[00:32:32]  Rummler ultimately relents and allows Epstein to sit for a practice interview, so long as they don't talk about his legal issues.
[00:32:39]  On the tape we heard, but not in Wolf's book, Epstein bizarrely suggests that he should talk about women and science in the practice interview.
[00:32:49]  This is how he thinks he's going to rehabilitate himself.
[00:32:52]  An incredulous Rumler accuses Epstein of having said there's never been a great female scientist and that women become morons as soon as they get their first period.
[00:33:01]  And undeterred Epstein says women are the future of science because they will focus on things that cannot be measured, like love and intuition.
[00:33:10]  Okay, we can also reveal for the first time that before the practice interview, the group also discusses possibly suing the Miami Herald over its award-winning reporting about Epstein, but Rummler expresses concern that Epstein's reputation was already so soiled that he would not be able to recover many damages and that he would still have to plead the fifth amendment in any depositions.
[00:33:36]  Rummler then leaves the group to take a call on behalf of another client and Epstein is heard on the tape telling Rummler, cute Dress.
[00:33:43]  Bannon jokes, let me introduce you to Jeffrey Biden an obvious reference to Jeffrey Epstein's name and, we assume, that of Joe Biden.
[00:33:52]  A reference to Biden's inappropriate public behavior toward young women in the practice session.
[00:33:58]  Bannon plays the role of a 60 minutes interviewer and Epstein tries to say he doesn't like to party.
[00:34:06]  Wolf's book, Too Famous, would later recount this conversation with Steve Bannon, identified as S.B. Epstein J-E in the audio Book.
[00:34:16]  S.B., you're not a playboy.
[00:34:18]  J-E, I am a playboy.
[00:34:20]  S.B., how can you be a playboy and not be social?
[00:34:23]  J-E. I didn't say I was a hermit.
[00:34:25]  I don't go out.
[00:34:26]  I meet people in different ways.
[00:34:28]  I go to specialized professional gatherings.
[00:34:31]  SB, is that a euphemism?
[00:34:33]  J-E, where I meet people who I find interesting or interesting people seek me out and come to my home.
[00:34:39]  S.B., are these men or women?
[00:34:42]  J-E, both.
[00:34:43]  But if the question is, do I like women?
[00:34:45]  The answer is yes.
[00:34:47]  No wonder this interview never actually happened.
[00:34:50]  I mean, some bad things happened to Jeffrey Epstein after that plan, but you could see the frustration of those who were apparently trying to help him that he might be unhelpable.
[00:35:00]  On the tape, we hear Epstein say that he has a photographic memory with numbers, that he studied at the Lawrence Livermore National Lab in high school, and that he received a perfect score on the math section of his SAT.
[00:35:12]  Despite not having a college degree, he says he got a job as a math teacher at the prestigious private Dalton School in New York City by cold calling and then acing the interview.
[00:35:23]  In the practice interview with Bannon, Epstein says he taught 17 and 18 year olds and that he would pay extra attention to the girls.
[00:35:31]  The exchange here in the audiobook of Too Famous.
[00:35:36]  Listen.
[00:35:38]  SB, you would focus on the females versus the males.
[00:35:41]  JE, yes, to the extent that I had something more to give them.
[00:35:45]  SB, what?
[00:35:46]  J-E, as I said, a friendlier view of the math world.
[00:35:51]  SB, you understand how that might sound creepy.
[00:35:55]  J-E, that I don't know.
[00:35:56]  It doesn't sound creepy to me now, and I don't think it seemed creepy to anyone then.
[00:36:01]  I also tutored young black men.
[00:36:05]  Epstein's comments about young black students also weren't exactly media friendly from the audiobook.
[00:36:13]  They can do great mathematics.
[00:36:15]  They just have to be playing basketball at the same time.
[00:36:17]  Seriously, when blacks learn, one of the nice things about basketball is that they are moving around.
[00:36:23]  Blacks learn really well when they are moving around.
[00:36:26]  And in American schools, you tell blacks to sit in their chairs.
[00:36:31]  The group then takes a break to give Epstein feedback where Wolf and Bannon compliment him on his charisma and scream presence, but make the observation that his commentary needs some work.
[00:36:43]  Seriously, says Bannon, according to Too Famous, you're engaging, you're not threatening, you're natural, you're friendly, you don't look at all creepy, you're a sympathetic figure, and this is what 75% of the battle is.
[00:36:55]  I'm totally impressed.
[00:36:56]  We just have to cut the content down.
[00:36:59]  On the audio, we heard, but not in the book, Wolf enters the conversation again, reminding Epstein that 60 minutes is going to shoot two hours of tape and cut it down to about six minutes, and saying Epstein was giving them opportunities to capture moments when he sounds terrible.
[00:37:18]  Also not in the book is Bannon reminding Epstein that the interview is, quote, not a search for truth.
[00:37:25]  While Epstein is in another room, Wolf on the tape expresses how fishy he finds it that Epstein got a job at the Dalton School without a college degree.
[00:37:36]  Quote, I've been going after this for years, Wolf is heard saying.
[00:37:40]  And then Bannon responds, quote, I'm still not buying it.
[00:37:43]  Bannon is laughing at the time.
[00:37:46]  And the American people are not buying the story around Epstein either.
[00:37:50]  Legitimate questions persist about the extent of his crimes and who, if anyone, is being protected.
[00:37:56]  President Trump seems uninterested in further Epstein disclosures.
[00:38:00]  Just this week, he reportedly met with Lauren Boebert, one of the Republicans pushing a so-called discharge petition that, if signed by 218 House members, which has now happened, happened late yesterday, will get a vote on the House floor seeking more disclosure from the DOJ.
[00:38:18]  The vote, however, will be largely symbolic, as it would likely be DOA in the Senate and presumably on President Trump's desk.
[00:38:26]  Still, what we heard and what Wolf's earlier reporting reveals is a deep animus by Epstein toward Trump, a bitterness, a resentment, at least by the date of those tape excerpts we played August 2017 and clearly thereafter.
[00:38:43]  By 2019, after the media storm hit, Epstein was focused on image rehab.
[00:38:50]  Within months, he would be charged with two serious felonies and would die, allegedly by suicide, in a New York prison.
[00:38:58]  So many questions remain.
[00:39:00]  Did the seemingly jocular man we heard on those tapes in 2019 take his own life months later after his legal troubles mounted?
[00:39:09]  Why was a so-called journalist, Michael Wolf, advising Epstein like a hired PR guru?
[00:39:14]  And why wasn't his full role disclosed in his earlier books?
[00:39:18]  Why was our friend Steve Bannon there?
[00:39:20]  And what does he know of the Wolf tapes?
[00:39:23]  More importantly, what about Bannon's own tapes?
[00:39:27]  Bannon has publicly revealed that he at one point was making a documentary about Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:39:34]  It's been reported he has 15 hours of his own tapes of this guy, but that they've never been released.
[00:39:42]  They haven't been.
[00:39:43]  Bannon once explained that he was hoping to show that Epstein's, quote, perversions and depravity toward young women were part of a life that was systematically supported, encouraged, and rewarded by a global establishment that dined off of his money and his influence.
[00:40:00]  The New York Post even obtained a trailer for the film.
[00:40:03]  Here it is.
[00:40:06]  The time I was 16, I brought him up to 75 girls.
[00:40:10]  He was glid.
[00:40:11]  And he lived essentially like he was Gatsby.
[00:40:13]  He was an absolutely terrifying person to encounter.
[00:40:18]  You own an island, right?
[00:40:20]  Two islands, the islands of Dr. Moreau.
[00:40:23]  Correct.
[00:40:24]  I may be living from old thinking, but the future is for the way women think.
[00:40:29]  The way women think.
[00:40:30]  That's correct.
[00:40:30]  Is that not a SOP because of all the depravity you've done against young women?
[00:40:36]  And your new SOP is that their women's thinking is the future?
[00:40:40]  No, I've always believed that women would, in fact, be able to take over.
[00:40:44]  I'm a firm believer and supporter of Times.
[00:40:47]  The greatest threat to people put in solitary confines.
[00:40:50]  They try to kill themselves.
[00:40:51]  Imagine that.
[00:40:52]  You're only in a room for 24 hours.
[00:40:54]  You start to go crazy.
[00:41:00]  The monsters, Epstein's life among the global elite.
[00:41:08]  Produced by somebody whose name I missed, and Steve Bannon.
[00:41:14]  That film was never released.
[00:41:15]  We reached out to Steve, who we love, for comment on our reporting, and we'll let you know when and if he responds.
[00:41:23]  I'm sure he'll have something to say about this.
[00:41:24]  I'm sure he'd like the chance to comment on this whole experience and on his own tapes.
[00:41:28]  And we're pals with him and would love to ask him directly here in a good exchange.
[00:41:33]  So I hope he'll come on and we'll talk about it.
[00:41:35]  Coming up next, Maureen Callahan here is Maureen Callahan is here to react to this and all the news of the day.
[00:41:43]  Buckle up.
[00:41:44]  This is a crazy one.
[00:41:46]  Streaming November 16th on Paramount Plus, it is the return of Landman, TV's biggest phenomenon from Taylor Sheridan, co-creator of Yellowstone.
[00:41:57]  Academy Award winner Billy Bob Thornton is back as Tommy Norris and managing higher stakes than ever before.
[00:42:03]  It features an all-star cast, including Academy Award nominees Demi Moore, Andy Garcia, and Sam Elliott.
[00:42:10]  In the wake of his former boss's passing, tensions come to a head as Tommy and Demi Moore's character, Cami Miller, struggle to maintain control of M.Tech's oil.
[00:42:19]  And with his father, played by Sam Elliott coming back into his life, Tommy must juggle both his roles as an oil man and a family man as pressure builds and his worlds collide.
[00:42:29]  Don't miss the hit series everyone's talking about.
[00:42:32]  Landman's new season starts streaming November 16th, only on Paramount Plus.
[00:42:39]  Maureen Callahan is here with me in studio.
[00:42:42]  She's, of course, the host of The Nerve with Maureen Callahan, a huge hit on all podcast platforms, YouTube, even Substack.
[00:42:50]  You can go and subscribe at thenerveshow.com.

=== Gamesmanship Behind the Scenes (05:29) ===

[00:42:54]  Hello, troublemakers.
[00:42:56]  And she is joining me on the Megan Kelly show live tour next week, November 2-1, November 21st in Anaheim, California, along with Jillian Michaels and our pals from the fifth column.
[00:43:09]  Still some tickets left for that.
[00:43:10]  So go right now to megankelly.com to get them right now, MeganKelly.com.
[00:43:14]  Maureen, welcome back.
[00:43:16]  Thanks for having me.
[00:43:17]  I'm so happy to see you.
[00:43:19]  Oh my God.
[00:43:19]  I'm so happy to see you too.
[00:43:20]  Congrats, by the way.
[00:43:21]  Just the show is kicking in.
[00:43:22]  Thank you.
[00:43:23]  It's so fun to listen to.
[00:43:24]  I think it's so fun to make.
[00:43:25]  Yeah.
[00:43:25]  We just die every day.
[00:43:27]  We're having the most fun.
[00:43:28]  We went from the wood chipper, the wood shed to the wood chipper.
[00:43:32]  What do you call yourself?
[00:43:32]  Your cultural prosecutor?
[00:43:34]  I am a cultural criminal prosecutor.
[00:43:36]  Yes.
[00:43:37]  Perfect.
[00:43:38]  Yes.
[00:43:38]  Do we have t-shirts yet that read allegedly, in my opinion?
[00:43:42]  What we're getting fielded many requests for, which we're working on allegedly, reportedly, just my opinion.
[00:43:50]  We're getting just my opinion mugs.
[00:43:52]  I love it.
[00:43:52]  I'll get them.
[00:43:53]  I love them.
[00:43:54]  And listen, it's we're laughing about it, but it's an honest thing to do.
[00:43:59]  You know, you're for the audience, you're letting them know what this is an opinion versus a fact that I'll state authoritatively.
[00:44:06]  And like too few do that.
[00:44:08]  No, absolutely.
[00:44:09]  And we're also very, you know, our whole thing is we exist for a reason and we really are bringing to light the underbelly of celebrity culture and those people that we choose to lionize and glamorize who, you know, may like Ryan Reynolds be just my opinion, a psychoarsonist who has yet to be brought to account.
[00:44:27]  Yes.
[00:44:27]  And you have the receipts on that.
[00:44:29]  I do very much so.
[00:44:30]  You have a good basis for your opinion.
[00:44:32]  Very much so.
[00:44:33]  But underscore, that's what it is.
[00:44:34]  Okay.
[00:44:35]  Let's start with Epstein.
[00:44:37]  Let's start with Michael Wolf, just for kicks, because I don't know why people continue to sit with Michael Wolf, because every biography he does on somebody is just an absolute killer.
[00:44:48]  And then they all get mad at Michael Wolfe, like the Murdochs and others.
[00:44:51]  And then they're sorry that they sat with Michael Wolfe.
[00:44:53]  But Donald Trump sat with him in 2018 or prior to that, because that's when it hit Fire and Fury.
[00:44:59]  And it seems very clear based on the talking points I just laid out that Michael Wolfe can't stand Trump and really seemed determined to bring Trump down.
[00:45:08]  And it's amazing to me that he calls himself a journalist and yet is an active PR advisor to people like Epstein, who, you know, he's also supposed to be doing, I guess, journalism with.
[00:45:22]  It seemed to me from what you just did in that segment, plus the emails that have been released or leaking out.
[00:45:32]  I mean, I don't know, everybody in the industry knows like Michael Wolf talks out of both sides of his mouth, you know?
[00:45:37]  So why these people would put themselves, I just, it feels like gamesmanship.
[00:45:42]  To me, everything, including the abuse of minor girls, it kind of feels like a game.
[00:45:47]  Can we get away with it?
[00:45:48]  Yep.
[00:45:48]  Michael Wolf, I'll teach you how to get away with it.
[00:45:51]  Steve Bannon, I'll help you get away with it.
[00:45:53]  You know, I was just reading back to make sure I had my timeline right.
[00:45:58]  It was 2008 when Epstein went to prison for soliciting prostitution.
[00:46:03]  Fake prison.
[00:46:04]  Everyone knew was that the stepmother of a 14-year-old girl had called Palm Beach Police and said, I think my stepdaughter's been molested over there.
[00:46:12]  And they all knew it.
[00:46:14]  They all knew what was going on over there.
[00:46:15]  And he got, what do you get, like work release?
[00:46:18]  Like he was able to leave.
[00:46:19]  And all day.
[00:46:20]  I've walked by that prison.
[00:46:22]  It's tiny and it's pretty and it's cush.
[00:46:24]  It's not like he was in like MDC where they're holding Luigi Mangioni and they held Diddy.
[00:46:30]  And off he goes every day to like go about his business, which I would, the guy was a danger to young girls everywhere.
[00:46:38]  So I don't know how it is that a Michael Wolf who has written for the publication I write for, you know, it's how is his name not mud?
[00:46:49]  Exactly, exactly.
[00:46:52]  The thing you mentioned about, you know, the work release, like Jeffrey Epstein was publicly disgraced in 2008, even with that sweetheart plea deal.
[00:47:01]  I mean, you find out your friend has pleaded guilty to solicitation of prostitution of a minor.
[00:47:07]  Most people would end the relationship at that point.
[00:47:09]  Yeah.
[00:47:10]  It's a no, right?
[00:47:11]  Yeah.
[00:47:11]  But almost no one did.
[00:47:13]  Like Prince Andrew didn't.
[00:47:15]  That infamous dinner that he had at his New York mansion with Katie Couric and George.
[00:47:20]  Chelsea Hambler.
[00:47:22]  Yes.
[00:47:22]  They all went after, well after that, to gather together.
[00:47:26]  Who, Steve?
[00:47:28]  Woody Allen.
[00:47:29]  Oh, that's a shock.
[00:47:32]  That was well after Epstein had copped that plea and they all knew and they didn't care.
[00:47:36]  And here's what's like crazy.
[00:47:40]  Larry Summers.
[00:47:41]  All right.
[00:47:42]  So that was Obama's treasury secretary and the former president of Harvard has been outed in these documents as honestly like a pathetic little child.
[00:47:54]  I can't believe how embarrassing they are for him.
[00:47:57]  So this guy has some exchange with Epstein, trying to find it here, where he acts like he can't like, I'm trying to find it.
[00:48:06]  Where is it?
[00:48:06]  The little flirt.
[00:48:07]  He wants to learn how to flirt and he needs the help.
[00:48:12]  It's an AM update.
[00:48:13]  Yeah, I'm looking at AM update, but I don't see it.
[00:48:14]  Hold on.
[00:48:15]  I got to find it because it's so good.
[00:48:18]  Standby.
[00:48:19]  I'm going to find it.
[00:48:19]  It's worth it.
[00:48:22]  Okay.
[00:48:22]  It's not on the first page.

=== Obama's Pathetic Exchange with Epstein (03:36) ===

[00:48:23]  We're all arguing.
[00:48:25]  Thanksgiving.
[00:48:26]  No.
[00:48:27]  Dershowitz.
[00:48:28]  Here it is.
[00:48:29]  He asked Epstein for dating advice.
[00:48:31]  Now keep in mind, this is after not only the 08 plea deal, it's after the 2018 Miami Herald reporting.
[00:48:40]  Yes.
[00:48:41]  Okay, so that's what blew the whole lid off of it.
[00:48:43]  After that.
[00:48:45]  And Larry Summers is asking him for dating advice, saying the following.
[00:48:54]  Okay, by the way, he's a contributing writer for the New York Times opinion section.
[00:48:57]  The correspondence took place in 2017, 2018, and 2019.
[00:49:01]  And he says, all right, stand by.
[00:49:05]  Here it is.
[00:49:06]  Yeah, March 16th, 2019.
[00:49:09]  He writes, we talked on the phone.
[00:49:12]  Then I can't talk later.
[00:49:14]  Didn't think I can talk tomorrow.
[00:49:17]  I said, what are you up to?
[00:49:19]  She said, I'm busy.
[00:49:20]  I said, awfully coy, you are.
[00:49:22]  And then I said, did you really rearrange the weekend we were going to be together because guy number three was coming?
[00:49:27]  She said, no, his schedule changed after we changed our plans.
[00:49:30]  I said, okay, I got to go.
[00:49:32]  Call me when you feel like it.
[00:49:33]  Tone was not of good feeling.
[00:49:36]  I didn't, D-I-N-T, want to be in a gift-giving competition while being the friend without benefits.
[00:49:42]  You'll have to stay tuned to hear Epstein's response right after this quick break.
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[00:51:05]  Their biggest sale of the year, this is.
[00:51:07]  These products always sell.
[00:51:08]  They sell out once the Black Friday sale opens to the public.
[00:51:12]  So grab yours right now.
[00:51:14]  Beekeepers Naturals products are also available at Target, Whole Foods, Walmart, Amazon, CBS, and Walgreens.
[00:51:23]  B-E-E-K-E-E.
[00:51:26]  You got it.
[00:51:27]  You got, you know what to do.
[00:51:34]  All right, let's go.
[00:51:35]  Isn't it great to be together?
[00:51:36]  It's so great to see you.
[00:51:39]  You're not alone.
[00:51:40]  It's only the liberal media and the haters who want you to think that.
[00:51:43]  We're in the majority right now.
[00:51:44]  We're from Chicago.
[00:51:45]  We clean in just for this.
[00:51:47]  I was like, we have to go.
[00:51:49]  And then after what happened to Charlie, I'm like, we definitely have to go.
[00:51:52]  Don't miss your last chance to be part of the Megan Kelly Live Tour.
[00:51:56]  It's a very important time in our country, Megan.
[00:51:58]  Stand firmly.

=== Jennifer's Needy Conversation with Jeffrey (15:46) ===

[00:51:59]  Do not waver on the truth.
[00:52:02]  Next stops, Bakersfield, Anaheim, and the Grand Finale in Glendale, Arizona, featuring special guest, Erica Cook.
[00:52:10]  I really genuinely feel like it's more important right now than ever.
[00:52:14]  You know, for all the reasons.
[00:52:16]  And it took courage for all of you to come.
[00:52:19]  The biggest thing we can do is be unafraid.
[00:52:24]  So go get your tickets right now before they sell out.
[00:52:26]  MeganKelly.com.
[00:52:28]  Presented by YReFi and SiriusXM.
[00:52:35]  I want to tell you that after the show on SiriusXM at 2 p.m. on the Megan Kelly channel, which is channel 111, you can share your thoughts as part of the MK Wrap-Up Show hosted by Emily Jashinsky.
[00:52:46]  Today, her guest is Jonas Bilbore of MK True Crime, reacting to our Epstein talking points and breaking news and to Maureen.
[00:52:53]  You can call in at 833-44-Megan.
[00:52:55]  That's 833-446-3496.
[00:52:59]  And tomorrow, I will be joining Emily on the wrap-up show.
[00:53:03]  So tune in at 2 p.m. Eastern on Sirius XM Triumph Channel.
[00:53:07]  Or sorry, MK channel 111 for that.
[00:53:09]  Maureen is back with me.
[00:53:10]  Okay, so here's Larry Summers, former president of Harvard, former Treasury Secretary under Barack Obama, writing an email to Jeffrey Epstein like a small schoolgirl.
[00:53:18]  Honestly, my 14-year-old daughter has much more maturity than is expressed in this.
[00:53:22]  And Epstein responds, she's smart making you pay for past errors.
[00:53:27]  Ignore the daddy.
[00:53:28]  I'm going to go out with the motorcycle guy.
[00:53:30]  You reacted well.
[00:53:31]  Annoyed shows caring.
[00:53:33]  No whining showed strength.
[00:53:35]  This is so embarrassing.
[00:53:37]  He is desperate to have approval from Epstein and how he's going to behave.
[00:53:41]  In November 2018, which by the way is right after the Miami Herald report, Summers forwarded Epstein an email from a woman with whom he'd been corresponding, writing, think no response for a while, probably appropriate.
[00:53:54]  Epstein replies, she's already already beginning to sound needy, nice.
[00:54:00]  Summers, when asked to comment on this by the Times, responded that I previously said I regretted my associations with him.
[00:54:09]  Why?
[00:54:10]  You were fine.
[00:54:11]  What do you mean you regretted?
[00:54:12]  You were with him at the time we knew everything we know now.
[00:54:17]  Like 2018, 2019, and you're seeking dating advice from the guy.
[00:54:23]  I mean, so these are allegedly the finest minds.
[00:54:27]  Allegedly reported.
[00:54:28]  Allegedly, reportedly the finest minds.
[00:54:31]  First of all, he puts this in writing.
[00:54:35]  Call him, my man, okay?
[00:54:37]  Like just making a phone call.
[00:54:38]  I mean, Jeffrey Epstein was probably recording everything and everyone anyway, but then to be like, I don't know, what would he be at this point, like in his early 60s?
[00:54:47]  Who, Epstein?
[00:54:48]  No, Summers at the time of writing these emails that are like- I think that's right.
[00:54:52]  So if you parse the subtext, the subtext is, hey, Jeffrey, I'm dating a sugar baby who's with me because I'm a rich, older, powerful man with money.
[00:55:02]  She doesn't want to have sex with me, but I want to have sex with her.
[00:55:06]  He literally says, I'm sick of buying her stuff and she's not putting out.
[00:55:10]  Now, this is where it really gets pathetic.
[00:55:13]  I'm going to pass you a note at lunch and ask you, should I return this text message or should I make her wait?
[00:55:19]  I'm so embarrassed.
[00:55:20]  And this is a woman embarrassment.
[00:55:22]  Right.
[00:55:23]  And she's juggling like three other guys, three other guys.
[00:55:26]  And he's like, Jeff, what do I do now?
[00:55:28]  I would say to Larry Summers, if you're dating a 14-year-old, that's your guy.
[00:55:32]  That's who you should go to for dating advice.
[00:55:34]  True.
[00:55:34]  But if you're not molesting children and you're just like over on like sugar babies or, you know, like, what are you doing?
[00:55:41]  What are you doing?
[00:55:43]  It's amazing to me, like the amount of connections he had and people who were tight with him.
[00:55:48]  I mean, you don't, you don't text somebody who you're not really close with on how exactly you should respond to the text messages you're getting from your would-be lover.
[00:55:59]  This is so humiliating.
[00:56:00]  And yes, Larry Summers is now 70 years old.
[00:56:03]  So yeah, so he's a fully grown man.
[00:56:06]  There's more, okay, on these Epstein emails and so on.
[00:56:10]  In one that's being touted by the media, August 23rd, 2018, it appears to show Epstein, former Obama White House Counsel Kathy Rummler, who I mentioned, discussing Michael Cohen and the payments to Stormy Daniels.
[00:56:22]  And you hear Epstein saying, you see, I know how dirty Donald is.
[00:56:26]  My guess is that non-lawyers, New York business people have no idea what it means to have your fixer flip.
[00:56:32]  I know how dirty Donald is.
[00:56:33]  And the media is running with this.
[00:56:34]  It's like, okay, once again, if Epstein said anything to Michael Wolf about Donald Trump and there's 100 hours of it on tape, you don't think Michael Wolf would have dropped that on the Halloween surprise he did six days before the last election?
[00:56:49]  That's such bullshit.
[00:56:50]  Nothing is there.
[00:56:51]  And not to mention the fact, you don't think Joe Biden would have dropped it when he was running against Trump for reelection or Kamala Harris.
[00:56:59]  Like this is all, they've bastardized the Epstein story to make it all about Trump, which is such, it's infuriating to those of us who actually do care about young girls and have a proven record of it.
[00:57:11]  They can go fuck themselves with this.
[00:57:12]  They can.
[00:57:14]  Here is my problem that I cannot get past.
[00:57:16]  And I feel like, you know, why?
[00:57:20]  Why won't they release the documents?
[00:57:22]  Why?
[00:57:23]  Yeah.
[00:57:23]  That's the problem.
[00:57:24]  If there's nothing there, if you're exonerated, why not release them?
[00:57:29]  You know, if we were talking about the Biden administration, we would also be like, release them.
[00:57:33]  So you want Trump to call for them to be released.
[00:57:36]  Just do it.
[00:57:37]  I do too.
[00:57:37]  Just do it.
[00:57:38]  I do too.
[00:57:39]  And there's a reason.
[00:57:39]  Like they got all of these from Jeffrey Epstein's estate.
[00:57:43]  It's his emails.
[00:57:45]  But we don't have the documents that are at the DOJ.
[00:57:48]  Right.
[00:57:48]  And maybe there won't be anything more interesting in there.
[00:57:51]  I don't know.
[00:57:51]  But it's very strange that Trump actually met with Lauren Boebert to try to discourage her.
[00:57:57]  Right.
[00:57:57]  Right.
[00:57:57]  Like at this point, he should just say, let's do it.
[00:58:01]  You know, there's not going to be anything in there.
[00:58:03]  I don't believe there's going to be anything in there that's truly a smoking gun.
[00:58:06]  I think it's bullshit.
[00:58:07]  I think he just finds this stuff annoying, a distraction.
[00:58:11]  And let's face it, I feel like it's no accident the Dems released these yesterday after their humiliation in losing the shutdown standoff.
[00:58:21]  They're like, pivot, let's talk about Epstein and Trump.
[00:58:25]  Right.
[00:58:25]  But what's interesting about it is it shows that both sides have their hands dirty.
[00:58:29]  We've got top Obama officials dealing with Epstein.
[00:58:32]  You know what I mean?
[00:58:33]  I mean, his White House counsel.
[00:58:35]  His White House counsel is.
[00:58:36]  And again, as you said, well established.
[00:58:39]  The guy was a pedophile.
[00:58:41]  Well established.
[00:58:42]  This guy was disgusting.
[00:58:44]  Anybody who set foot in his townhouse saw those artworks he had, which were all about like young women sort of in sexual, it was all disgust.
[00:58:54]  I mean, he was just showing you right there who he was.
[00:58:57]  That portrait of Clinton in a dress with the high heels.
[00:59:02]  It makes me wonder if the reason they're just not getting released is because there are far too many people of power implicated in those emails on both sides.
[00:59:09]  There's one in what was just sent out where this Catherine Rumler, the Obama White House counsel, is ripping on Bill Clinton, suggesting she thinks he's a near psychopath.
[00:59:22]  She says he is very close to being a psychopath.
[00:59:26]  He has no conscience.
[00:59:28]  It's scary, she says about him.
[00:59:31]  This is an exchange she had with Jeffrey.
[00:59:33]  Epstein calls Bill Clinton a liar, saying, my memory, he says, I stopped talking to Clinton when he swore with wholehearted conviction to me that he had done something.
[00:59:46]  He had forgotten that he also swore the exact opposite to me only weeks before.
[00:59:53]  Who to feel sorry for here?
[00:59:54]  A pedophile upset at the, you know, inability to believe a career lifelong politician with aims for the White House.
[01:00:03]  Yeah.
[01:00:03]  Who we all saw in the run-up to that White House that first bid.
[01:00:07]  I did not lied about Jennifer Flowers.
[01:00:10]  Jennifer Flowers had the tapes.
[01:00:11]  One of my favorite pressers ever when she stood in front of the world's media with Star magazine behind her.
[01:00:16]  Jennifer with a G, just to be clear.
[01:00:18]  Jennifer with a G.
[01:00:20]  And then I did not have sex with that woman.
[01:00:23]  I mean, we've got them all like his greatest hits on tape.
[01:00:26]  So again, if Jeffrey's such a genius, why are we so surprised?
[01:00:30]  We don't know who we're dealing with.
[01:00:31]  Well, this is another thing that seems to be emerging is that he was very well connected, but not quite as well as he said he was.
[01:00:37]  Yeah.
[01:00:37]  Right.
[01:00:37]  That he was dropping people's names left and right to try to make himself sound important.
[01:00:43]  And he had just enough access that it worked because he did.
[01:00:46]  He did have some powerful friends.
[01:00:47]  And that leads me to Prince Andrew.
[01:00:50]  What do you make of the disclosures about him in here?
[01:00:53]  Because there's one that I could argue as Prince Andrew's lawyer is helpful to Andrew.
[01:00:59]  Oh, really?
[01:01:00]  Yes.
[01:01:00]  In that he's saying behind the scenes to Jeffrey, you got to put this story out.
[01:01:05]  Like it's breaking about him with Virginia Duffrey and the arm around.
[01:01:09]  He's like, I had nothing to do with this.
[01:01:11]  You've got to get on top of this.
[01:01:12]  Like handle this, please.
[01:01:14]  And then you see a lot of comments by Epstein being like, she's a liar.
[01:01:19]  He said something like she had sex with everyone but Elvis and he's mocking her, listing like her long list of people she was allegedly trafficked to.
[01:01:27]  Right.
[01:01:27]  And that's them behind the scenes when it wasn't, hadn't come out.
[01:01:31]  You know, it's not like a public conversation.
[01:01:33]  It's them behind the scenes kind of rolling their eyes at how absurd she is.
[01:01:37]  And also Andrew being like, could you please get rid of this nonsense?
[01:01:40]  Like, I don't want this and you know I had nothing to do with it.
[01:01:43]  Now, that could just be cover.
[01:01:45]  Sure.
[01:01:45]  Totally.
[01:01:46]  But I was like, if I'm repping Prince Andrew, I'm not opposed to this exchange being released.
[01:01:52]  But my question would be, why in those, that email exchange wouldn't Andrew have memorialized his later claim that that photo was doctored and he was never even there.
[01:02:02]  Well, that's the other thing that comes up that's not helpful.
[01:02:04]  The photo's real.
[01:02:05]  Epstein verifies that that photo is real, that Andrew's been telling us is a false photo since it hit the public airwaves.
[01:02:14]  And he's had, what's happening with him, Mo, you cover on your show a lot what's going on with the royals.
[01:02:19]  And Kinsey, she brings us our royal update.
[01:02:22]  Yeah.
[01:02:23]  And it seems like Andrew now could be facing criminal charges relating to financial impropriety, alleged financial impropriety.
[01:02:30]  Alleged financial impropriety, both Andrew and Sarah Ferguson.
[01:02:35]  Sarah Ferguson, everybody knows, has been raiding the kitty of her charity for years.
[01:02:40]  Andrew.
[01:02:41]  We do know that.
[01:02:41]  I didn't know that.
[01:02:42]  Allegedly.
[01:02:44]  I should qualify that.
[01:02:46]  But the latest reporting is that Andrew may actually and Sarah Ferguson leave the country to avoid any kind of criminal prosecution.
[01:02:56]  Oh, God, are we going to get stuck with them too?
[01:02:58]  No, they'll never come here.
[01:03:00]  They'll never come here.
[01:03:01]  But, you know, it's a lovely parallel because, you know, Megan has really come into full flower as not the second incarnation of Diana, as she would so love to be regarded, but she's really Fergie 2.0.
[01:03:15]  Yes, I can see that.
[01:03:16]  I see it right.
[01:03:17]  It's a much better role model for her and what she's become.
[01:03:21]  She's as absurd as ever.
[01:03:25]  Megan Markle.
[01:03:26]  Yeah.
[01:03:27]  She showed up at the Chris Jenner 70th birthday bash with Harry and got her picture taken.
[01:03:35]  And I'm just going to be honest, she didn't look good in either shop.
[01:03:38]  Oh, everybody's been saying, this is a conversation I've been having all week.
[01:03:41]  Right?
[01:03:42]  Yeah.
[01:03:42]  She did not look good.
[01:03:43]  Here's, we're putting it on the board.
[01:03:44]  There's one with Kim Kardashian, who's in the purple, and then there's one with Chris Kardashian, who is in the red dress.
[01:03:50]  Megan, can we stop for a moment here?
[01:03:52]  Yeah.
[01:03:52]  We're going to talk about this on the nerve.
[01:03:54]  But if you look at the former photo, the first one where Harry is looking at Chris, if you look closely, okay, his eyes.
[01:04:02]  Do you see where they are?
[01:04:03]  On her boobs.
[01:04:04]  And he looks wasted, wasted.
[01:04:07]  And Megan, that's your prize.
[01:04:10]  Okay.
[01:04:10]  That's your Duke, your prince of the blood.
[01:04:13]  He's ogling a 70-year-old woman.
[01:04:15]  It's so true.
[01:04:16]  I hadn't considered that as one of the motivations for what we now know was a demand reportedly by Megan to take down these pictures.
[01:04:27]  She was pissed that the Kardashians posted them.
[01:04:30]  Meanwhile, what lunatic poses for a photo with a Kardashian and thinks it's not going to get posted?
[01:04:35]  Why are we alive?
[01:04:37]  You know, to paraphrase Warren Beatty to Madonna in Truth or Dare.
[01:04:40]  Right.
[01:04:40]  If you're not on camera, why live?
[01:04:42]  Does it even matter?
[01:04:42]  Does it matter?
[01:04:43]  So they go the cost of entry.
[01:04:46]  This is a blood oath you take when you cross the threshold of any Kardashian Jenner enterprise.
[01:04:51]  You're going to be exploited.
[01:04:53]  Your image and likeness, you are signing it away.
[01:04:56]  Just kiss it goodbye.
[01:04:57]  And so, you know, you will be exploited.
[01:05:00]  That should be like underneath the entryway of every Kardashian event.
[01:05:03]  100%, like South Park.
[01:05:05]  Like, we want our privacy.
[01:05:06]  We'll be exploited.
[01:05:07]  We want privacy.
[01:05:08]  We want privacy.
[01:05:09]  And so these two, so apparently now the Kardashian Jenners are extremely angry with the Sussexes for making this ad hoc demand when the cost of entry.
[01:05:18]  I mean, Megan, the driveway leading up to this thing was they had hired like the best paparazzi in the business to take photos of all the guests coming in.
[01:05:28]  Yes.
[01:05:29]  This is how we got our favorite platonic couple, Oprah and Gail together, right?
[01:05:33]  Entering the Bezos Sanchez lair.
[01:05:35]  They were the ones throwing the party for Chris, by the way.
[01:05:38]  Jeff Bezos.
[01:05:39]  Oh, naturally.
[01:05:40]  Okay.
[01:05:40]  So, you know, there's all theories about why Megan wanted to be in that party in particular.
[01:05:44]  Well, and so who shows up and then scolds the host, the birthday girl, for having the photo with them?
[01:05:50]  It's like, then don't pose for it, you idiot.
[01:05:52]  Just say I'd rather not.
[01:05:54]  How about don't go?
[01:05:56]  Right?
[01:05:56]  Don't even go.
[01:05:57]  You know, the thing that struck me too about those images of Megan entering, you know, Harry had her by the hand, but she was several steps behind and she was beaming.
[01:06:05]  Like this was like her fullest self-actualization.
[01:06:10]  She's at a Hollywood party hosted by Chris Jenner.
[01:06:15]  Now, if she had an iota of common sense, she would have realized that had she just stayed as a royal, it would have been the likes of Chris Jenner desperate to be in a room with her.
[01:06:24]  Yes, desperate to be in a room with Megan Markle and how the tables have turned.
[01:06:29]  And she's too, she's not as clever as she thinks.
[01:06:32]  Yeah.
[01:06:32]  She doesn't get that this is not good for her brand.
[01:06:35]  Yeah.
[01:06:36]  She's hawking her marmalade and her friend Oprah just put it on her most favorite things, Maureen.
[01:06:45]  Oprah loves the marmalade so much.
[01:06:49]  It's a favorite of hers.
[01:06:51]  That came across totally organically.
[01:06:54]  It was not bought and paid for by her choosing Oprah for her big reveal about the royal family being a bunch of racists.
[01:07:00]  No, it's real for sure.
[01:07:02]  And just to prove how real it is, our friend Link Lauren decided to order some of the orange marmalade just to see for himself if it was amazing and a favorite.
[01:07:12]  And here's how that went.
[01:07:15]  I feel like I'm at Fat Camp and they're like forcing me to eat vegetables or something.
[01:07:18]  I don't know if Fat Camp is real.
[01:07:20]  Okay.
[01:07:23]  Mm mm mm mm mm mm mm mm mm mm mm mm mm mm mm.
[01:07:27]  Uh uh.
[01:07:28]  No.
[01:07:28]  Oh, no.
[01:07:30]  I literally feel my throat closing.
[01:07:32]  Oh, my God.
[01:07:34]  Orange marmalade tastes like crap.
[01:07:38]  I actually feel sick.
[01:07:40]  That's really not good.
[01:07:41]  That's not good.
[01:07:42]  Oh, no.
[01:07:43]  He looks genuinely upset.
[01:07:44]  Yeah, no.
[01:07:45]  One more.

=== Orange Marmalade Tastes Like Crap (06:02) ===

[01:07:46]  He bought one of her candles that she was using the utensil the wrong way to make.
[01:07:52]  I don't know.
[01:07:53]  Yes, that's.
[01:07:55]  We're not kidding people, but there is like some grabber thingy that grabs the candle and she was using it the wrong way.
[01:08:02]  I think it was the candle, but in any event, she was in the kitchen trying to use this.
[01:08:04]  And Emily Zanati, who's a great follow on X, reliably tells me, and she's a great chef, she had it completely upside down.
[01:08:13]  She was not using it the right way.
[01:08:14]  Our new Martha Stewart doesn't know how to use kitchen utensils, but America needs to know she also cannot make candles because here's what happened when Link ordered one.
[01:08:26]  No.
[01:08:27]  You guys.
[01:08:28]  Taking it out of the box.
[01:08:29]  You guys, there's no lick.
[01:08:32]  Like producer Kylie.
[01:08:34]  There's no lick, right?
[01:08:35]  Am I crazy?
[01:08:37]  Where's the thing that I light?
[01:08:40]  Not there.
[01:08:41]  This has to be a joke.
[01:08:43]  No, I'm not even kidding.
[01:08:45]  I'm not kidding.
[01:08:45]  You guys, this isn't a stunt.
[01:08:47]  There's literally nothing to light in here.
[01:08:53]  No, it's not pasted down.
[01:08:55]  My producer's in my ear.
[01:08:56]  Is it pasted down?
[01:08:57]  No, it's not pasted down.
[01:08:58]  Zoom in.
[01:08:59]  There's literally nothing.
[01:09:01]  There's nothing to light on the candle.
[01:09:03]  This is like Megan Markle's career.
[01:09:06]  He tried to get a refund and having difficulty getting his money.
[01:09:11]  You don't say.
[01:09:13]  I mean, this is why I think she's, first of all, is that not the metaphor for Megan Markle in particular?
[01:09:17]  Like, there is no center.
[01:09:19]  There is no through line.
[01:09:20]  There is nothing to light up.
[01:09:22]  There's no light inside.
[01:09:22]  There's no light.
[01:09:23]  There's no light.
[01:09:24]  So in that regard, you know, Chef's Kitch, she nailed it.
[01:09:28]  Yes.
[01:09:29]  Yeah.
[01:09:29]  You know, what is, did you see, did you see her announcement the other day about her Netflix holiday special dropping December 3rd?
[01:09:36]  God, what?
[01:09:37]  We're going to have to fire up the band.
[01:09:39]  I'm afraid we might have to some merry making.
[01:09:44]  She's doing, so it's, it's, so it's dropping December 3rd.
[01:09:47]  It's her, it's, the tagline is something like, like honoring traditions and creating new ones, some bullshit like that.
[01:09:54]  But then I went over right over to Netflix's Instagram to see, there was no mention of the, of the Megan special.
[01:10:00]  Not surprising.
[01:10:01]  Not surprising whatsoever.
[01:10:02]  Although they did have some great, somebody, somebody did grab it.
[01:10:07]  And I have some, I'm going to do some screenshots on the nerf tomorrow of places where the comments are open and they're great.
[01:10:12]  Okay.
[01:10:12]  Oh, good.
[01:10:13]  You know, she keeps her comments off permanently like a coward.
[01:10:15]  She does not want to hear what we have to say.
[01:10:17]  She doesn't want to hear what anybody has to say.
[01:10:18]  No, although, do you believe?
[01:10:19]  I believe she definitely watched version one.
[01:10:22]  100%.
[01:10:23]  Right?
[01:10:24]  She's making veiled references to us in some of these interviews.
[01:10:27]  I know.
[01:10:27]  Yeah.
[01:10:27]  It's fine.
[01:10:28]  Keep it going.
[01:10:29]  I love it.
[01:10:29]  She should be on her knees thanking us.
[01:10:31]  If she were smart, she would be like, Can I do one with you guys?
[01:10:34]  Yeah.
[01:10:34]  Can I do a spoof of myself with you guys?
[01:10:36]  Didn't you say the only reason she's getting any views at all is because of rubbernecking from our mocking.
[01:10:42]  Yeah.
[01:10:43]  People are like, oh, now I want to take a look at what she's doing just to laugh at it.
[01:10:46]  It's fun.
[01:10:46]  It's comedy.
[01:10:47]  Yeah.
[01:10:48]  Oh, by the way, I've heard a rumor that Daniel, the makeup artist, is now on the out.
[01:10:53]  Your dear friend.
[01:10:54]  Her dear, dear friend for life.
[01:10:56]  Because the rumor also was that, you know, when she went to Balenciaga, which had its own pedophilia, she had no problem with.
[01:11:04]  No problem.
[01:11:05]  Childhood bullying, online bullying, no problem.
[01:11:08]  She allegedly flew first class and put Daniel the makeup artist in coach.
[01:11:14]  Her dear friend?
[01:11:15]  Uh-huh.
[01:11:18]  That is so on brand, isn't it?
[01:11:20]  Yes.
[01:11:21]  God, she's nasty.
[01:11:22]  You'd think she'd be smart enough, to your point, if she's not that clever, just for like look's sake, you know, just for the appearance of it, to upgrade the guy.
[01:11:31]  Right.
[01:11:32]  Treat the people who are, their job is to make you look the best you possibly can look.
[01:11:37]  Make them feel valued and make their travel comfortable.
[01:11:41]  And this is, this always goes to my theory.
[01:11:43]  This is my theory about Michelle Obama's people.
[01:11:44]  I think they hate her.
[01:11:46]  Yeah.
[01:11:47]  Explain a lot.
[01:11:48]  Wouldn't it explain a lot?
[01:11:49]  Like her presentation is often like off.
[01:11:52]  Yes.
[01:11:52]  Like that Robin Roberts interview she did in that like that huge denim leisure suit, which is so unattractive.
[01:11:59]  The shoulders were out here.
[01:12:01]  You know, she's already got like a fill that's not quite the most feminine, right?
[01:12:06]  So what does her team do?
[01:12:07]  They put her in like, what do you call those things?
[01:12:10]  Shoulder pads?
[01:12:11]  We've got to get a full screen of that.
[01:12:13]  Please let's drop that in for the YouTube audience so they see what we're talking about.
[01:12:16]  All right, wait, I want to do one more on Megan Markle because we do have to get to Michelle Obama, but I and also Oprah.
[01:12:22]  The other thing Megan Markle's in the news for right now is she's found a whole new way for you to spread bagel, to spread cream cheese on your bagel.
[01:12:34]  Oh, really?
[01:12:35]  Do you think we need that?
[01:12:36]  Like, weren't you every morning like, how do I get the cream cheese out of this container and onto this round circle?
[01:12:43]  It's so challenging.
[01:12:46]  Here it is.
[01:12:47]  She wants you to take the cream cheese out.
[01:12:49]  Okay.
[01:12:50]  And much like her pretzel trick, she wants you to just smear it on a plate.
[01:12:55]  You see, you smear it on a plate and then you put shit on it like tomatoes, I think.
[01:13:00]  Uh-huh.
[01:13:01]  And then you, oh, flower petals, Maureen.
[01:13:05]  It's the flower petals.
[01:13:06]  It's the flower petals on your smeared cream cheese, which now does not come out of the container.
[01:13:11]  It's on a plate smushed with random things on top of it.
[01:13:16]  And then you put it on your bagel.
[01:13:18]  Okay, so we've upgraded from removing pretzels from one plastic bag and putting them into another plastic bag.
[01:13:25]  Elevating.
[01:13:25]  Elevating.
[01:13:26]  And our newest innovation is to remove the cream cheese from its container and plate it.
[01:13:34]  Okay.
[01:13:34]  I can't wait to see what she does with like a stick of butter.
[01:13:36]  In fact, she's going to be telling us that our, you know, Heinz ketchup bottle, which has the nice easy squeeze thing, ought to be smushed on our table as some sort of rainbow display and scooped up by a knife to put on our burger.

=== Smearing Cream Cheese on Bagels (10:43) ===

[01:13:48]  I'm like kind of speechless.
[01:13:51]  I'm kind of a god.
[01:13:52]  Like, again, this is why I think everybody in her employe hates her.
[01:13:55]  Like, and there's nobody who could say that's not a good idea.
[01:13:58]  That's not a good idea.
[01:14:00]  It's not, let's, let's, let's put a pin in that and brainstorm something else, you know?
[01:14:05]  Right.
[01:14:06]  No, truly, like it's what's so funny about watching her do these kitchen things is I often feel it would be like saying to me, could you show us some kitchen tips?
[01:14:16]  You know, and I'm like in there, maybe we should smear the cream cheese on a plate.
[01:14:22]  Maybe we should put the pretzels from one bag to like, that is the shit I could come up with.
[01:14:27]  I actually am always very nervous about whatever knife I choose to try to cut a bagel in half.
[01:14:32]  Like I'm worried I might choose the right wrong and like harm my, like I, like, I'm like you.
[01:14:37]  I'm like that.
[01:14:38]  Yes, you know, slice it for me at the tried bodega, whatever.
[01:14:42]  Not for lack of effort.
[01:14:43]  Not for lack of effort, but no, I would never put myself.
[01:14:45]  Like, and again, what is her lane?
[01:14:47]  She's, she's in this, like, she's in this domestic lane of, but, but now she's like, she's over at the Kardashians trying to, I mean, the rumor is she's like looking for more acting work.
[01:15:01]  Now we're getting back into acting, right?
[01:15:03]  Oh, she apparently she, she, she infuriated whoever's producing that indie movie.
[01:15:08]  She's acting as herself in.
[01:15:09]  Yeah, right.
[01:15:10]  Because they wanted to keep her cameo a surprise, but she leaked it because they have no self-control.
[01:15:17]  And because she needs to see her name in headlines, she's really unhappy if she's not seeing enough press about herself.
[01:15:23]  Meanwhile, if she had just stayed on suits, you know, she might have had a decent career as an actress.
[01:15:30]  Probably B-list, whatever at best for her.
[01:15:32]  But so what?
[01:15:33]  You're a working actor?
[01:15:34]  It seemed to be something she really loved.
[01:15:36]  Right.
[01:15:37]  My kids actually like that show.
[01:15:38]  Really?
[01:15:39]  Yeah, they watch it on the reruns on whatever app it's on.
[01:15:43]  And maybe she could have done that, you know, but instead, she's got this thirst for fame and attention.
[01:15:50]  It wasn't getting, you know, scratched because that was an ensemble cast, Maureen.
[01:15:54]  Yeah.
[01:15:54]  She actually wasn't the star of that.
[01:15:56]  It has two males who are the main stars.
[01:16:00]  And she needs to be the lead act.
[01:16:02]  That's why she couldn't handle suits and wanted something else.
[01:16:06]  That's why she couldn't handle the royal family because she wasn't the main act there either.
[01:16:11]  Exactly.
[01:16:12]  And it's a hole that will never, ever, ever be filled.
[01:16:15]  Whatever dopamine hit she got from like showing up at Chris Jenners.
[01:16:18]  And when you look at those photos, she is beaming.
[01:16:20]  I mean, Harry looks miserable and she is, I mean, I've never seen life force come out of her like that.
[01:16:26]  But you know, the dopamine hit is so evanescent because what does she do the next day?
[01:16:30]  Call or text them and say, take my pictures down.
[01:16:32]  Yeah.
[01:16:33]  Like there's no satisfying her on it.
[01:16:36]  She'll never be happy.
[01:16:37]  Well, reportedly, Kim Kardashian was mad because Kim, if there's one thing that woman knows, it's photos.
[01:16:44]  And her, she was reportedly making the point that they got caught by the Paps outside of the event, as you point out.
[01:16:50]  It was all planned.
[01:16:52]  They also posed for pictures at some, I don't know, benefit that they were at earlier in the year.
[01:16:56]  Yeah, perfectly happily.
[01:16:58]  It was just at the Kardashian party that she was like, no, I want my pictures down.
[01:17:02]  And I, I maintain it's because they actually, I thought, were not flattering pictures of her.
[01:17:08]  And you point out something even more important, which is Harry was staring at Chris Jenner's boobs, which no woman wants to see.
[01:17:18]  I can see why you'd say, I'd prefer that not happen.
[01:17:22]  And I'd prefer he not do that.
[01:17:24]  I mean, truly, like, it reminds me of the Lauren Sanchez photo at the inauguration where those men were staring at Lauren Sanchez's boobs.
[01:17:30]  Mark Zuckerberg.
[01:17:31]  I have to say, I really would put money on Doug never staring at another woman's boobs.
[01:17:37]  Certainly not in my presence and not period, because what the men of the internet tell me, Maureen, and ask is that there's an unwritten rule for all men.
[01:17:46]  Some of them were making it in response to that photo that we just looked at.
[01:17:50]  Like saying, Harry, I know you want to do it.
[01:17:53]  I know it's really calling to you, but no matter how badly you want to do it, bro, you cannot do it.
[01:18:00]  Like we all sleep.
[01:18:02]  No.
[01:18:02]  It's so elemental.
[01:18:03]  Okay.
[01:18:04]  So, so elemental.
[01:18:06]  Now, this has never been my problem because I am not well endowed.
[01:18:09]  So that's fine by me.
[01:18:11]  But the thing that this photo, first of all, I would like to nominate this photo for photo of the year.
[01:18:16]  Yes.
[01:18:17]  Whoever got this.
[01:18:17]  This is forget war-torn Ukraine.
[01:18:20]  This is the photo of the year.
[01:18:22]  And why I think is because.
[01:18:24]  We got to zoom in on Harry's eyes.
[01:18:26]  The whole face is incredible.
[01:18:28]  He's like slacks.
[01:18:29]  He's like googly.
[01:18:30]  He's like, I'm like eight drinks in.
[01:18:33]  You know, this is, this is not the first time he's done this.
[01:18:36]  There's no way this is the first time he's done this.
[01:18:38]  Oh, it's not saving it up for the 70-year-old Kardashian.
[01:18:41]  No, no, no.
[01:18:42]  I can only imagine the people, the luminaries we have been in contact with who Harry has comported himself thusly.
[01:18:51]  And this is actually who she's dealing with behind closed doors.
[01:18:54]  This is a middle-aged man, a prince of the blood who has been around high-powered people.
[01:18:59]  And like, this is where the tether with Andrew comes in.
[01:19:03]  It's just so sleazy and smarmy and immature.
[01:19:07]  And this is the guy she goes home with every night.
[01:19:09]  And doesn't this, this is like the yin to the yang of that fake on my video the other day.
[01:19:17]  I called it the Super Bowl win, but it's baseball.
[01:19:20]  So it's not the Super Bowl win.
[01:19:22]  It's the World Series win when they did that fake.
[01:19:26]  Oh, yes.
[01:19:26]  And he's sitting there like, oh my God, what the hell did I marry?
[01:19:31]  How did I marry it?
[01:19:32]  Why is it there bothering me again?
[01:19:35]  The contempt that like in his body posture, like as she's trying to get the room fake, excited.
[01:19:43]  Yeah.
[01:19:43]  Right.
[01:19:43]  And only her friend is complying.
[01:19:45]  Yeah.
[01:19:45]  And he's sitting there like, oh, you know, like, I need a drink.
[01:19:48]  He looks like he's lost the will to live in that image, in that video.
[01:19:52]  He, I've never seen, first of all, I don't, he was all alone.
[01:19:56]  Like he has no friends.
[01:19:58]  Like game seven of the World Series, a Super Bowl.
[01:20:01]  That's when you have like your guy friends over.
[01:20:04]  Yes.
[01:20:04]  And you order beer and pizza and junk food and you just, you just hang out.
[01:20:08]  It's like a lazy, great, fun Sunday.
[01:20:11]  It's one of those few monocultural events that are left, right?
[01:20:14]  And he's alone and he's got one arm slung over his head and they're like the furniture is so grim.
[01:20:21]  It's like lazy boy adjacent, you know, for like a royal.
[01:20:25]  And she comes hopping over like, and you can tell he doesn't know what's going on.
[01:20:30]  Like he doesn't know what's going on.
[01:20:31]  Right.
[01:20:31]  He doesn't realize this is for a social media video.
[01:20:34]  This is not real.
[01:20:35]  And he doesn't even seem to know what she's up to.
[01:20:38]  None of us did.
[01:20:38]  None of us.
[01:20:41]  And at first he puts his arm up like defensive, like, no, don't put it in my face.
[01:20:47]  In which he spoke for us all.
[01:20:49]  For real.
[01:20:50]  Like, yes.
[01:20:50]  Go.
[01:20:51]  Yeah.
[01:20:51]  And then, and then he realizes, oh, there's something.
[01:20:53]  There's a tableau that I'm not aware of yet, but I better play ball.
[01:20:57]  Like he does seem a bit afraid.
[01:20:59]  He seems, you know, again, like a corollary to Michelle and Craig, brother Craig.
[01:21:04]  Very afraid.
[01:21:04]  So can I say this?
[01:21:05]  I think.
[01:21:06]  Oh, we have it.
[01:21:07]  Wait, okay, we can watch it since we're talking about it.
[01:21:09]  Yeah.
[01:21:09]  watch it.
[01:21:23]  Eyes off of her almost immediately.
[01:21:27]  I'm sorry to the listening audience.
[01:21:28]  This is like fingernails on a chalkboard.
[01:21:31]  He's not even stirring.
[01:21:32]  Like he's heard this before.
[01:21:34]  No, he's not even remotely motivated to stand up and hug her or celebrate with her.
[01:21:39]  Or tell her to shut up.
[01:21:40]  Not at all.
[01:21:42]  So wait, what was I going to?
[01:21:43]  Oh, I think something is happening with them.
[01:21:46]  This is my armchair analysis.
[01:21:49]  You know, you've heard of trauma bonding.
[01:21:52]  I think they convinced themselves that they were, you know, put upon, they were attacked, whatever, that they were in the midst of a trauma when they were first getting together or after they got married because of the evil, racist royal family.
[01:22:04]  They couldn't be first.
[01:22:05]  They were behaving like spoiled brats.
[01:22:07]  They didn't like the size of their castle.
[01:22:09]  They manifested it all into, we're getting bullied.
[01:22:11]  We're not getting the things we want.
[01:22:14]  They don't appreciate us.
[01:22:15]  This alleged bullshit story about how he ran around saying she's going to kill herself and she did too.
[01:22:19]  And everybody was like, no one cares.
[01:22:21]  Okay, sure.
[01:22:23]  And so like, then they did Mexic and that was spun up into like trauma for them, right?
[01:22:28]  As opposed to what they were doing to the royal family and the queen humiliating her.
[01:22:33]  And now the trauma's kind of quieted down, Maureen.
[01:22:36]  Right.
[01:22:36]  The initial surge of hormones has quieted down.
[01:22:41]  And now the real people are stuck looking at each other.
[01:22:44]  Yes.
[01:22:45]  And from his look in that video and his look at Chris Kardashian, Chris Jenner, it seems pretty clear the bloom is off the rose.
[01:22:54]  And now that they've just looked at each other without all those like ornaments to make it more exciting, they're displeased.
[01:23:02]  I couldn't agree with you more.
[01:23:03]  And, you know, those, those, um, oh, there's the close-up.
[01:23:06]  Oh, It's still so far away from us.
[01:23:10]  No, but you can, you can make it out.
[01:23:12]  I saw it on the internet when all the men were like, Harry, you can't do it.
[01:23:15]  He's got like a half-cocked grin.
[01:23:17]  I mean, he's looking at her like an object, like a thing he could potentially purchase and take home.
[01:23:22]  Well, it is a Kardashian.
[01:23:24]  No, listen, I couldn't agree with you more, but it's so unroyal, you know?
[01:23:30]  It's and Megan, like an idiot.
[01:23:32]  She's, she's either willfully ignoring it because she's seen this happen before, or she doesn't see it, but she's got.
[01:23:38]  She's on a mission of her own.
[01:23:39]  She's like, I need an access.
[01:23:41]  I need access.
[01:23:42]  They could tweet something out from me about as ever.
[01:23:44]  Next thing you know, I'm back on Oprah's list.
[01:23:47]  Boom.
[01:23:47]  Was Chris Jenner like number four in the initial?
[01:23:51]  Remember that initial run of the slimy jam, as Kinsey calls it?
[01:23:56]  And famous people got it and had to put it on Instagram and it was numbered like she was a dummy.
[01:24:00]  Oh, I forgot about that.
[01:24:02]  Yes, yes.
[01:24:03]  I don't remember, but she was up there.
[01:24:04]  She's pretty high.
[01:24:05]  Chris was pretty high.
[01:24:06]  Well, and like they're, they all, they need each other, like Sanchez, Kardashian.
[01:24:10]  You know, she went to the space launch.
[01:24:13]  Right.
[01:24:13]  But so Sanchez, interesting.
[01:24:17]  Harry and Megan were not on the wedding invite list.
[01:24:20]  That's true.
[01:24:21]  Yeah, I hadn't considered that.
[01:24:22]  You're right.
[01:24:23]  Oh, that probably drove her crazy.
[01:24:24]  You know, there were all matters.
[01:24:26]  It was a, it was sort of Megan Markle-esque in that like you couldn't tell what this assortment of celebrities had to do with each other.

=== IRS Seizing Retirement and Homes (02:52) ===

[01:24:32]  Like Tom Brady was there, Sidney Sweeney was there.
[01:24:37]  There were weird, weird, famous people who just, it seemed like a con, just like, let's get some names, you know?
[01:24:42]  Of course, we all know that's what happened, but not those two.
[01:24:44]  Right.
[01:24:45]  They were persona non grata.
[01:24:46]  Nobody wanted them there.
[01:24:48]  One or both of the bride and groom were like, that is a bridge too far.
[01:24:51]  Exactly.
[01:24:52]  We want the Sidney Sweeney types, the legit stars, the Tom Brady's.
[01:24:56]  We do not want these glomers in Montecito who whom are loathed by everybody.
[01:25:01]  All right, stand by.
[01:25:01]  We're going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back.
[01:25:03]  We have much more with Maureen and we've got to get to our friend Gail King.
[01:25:07]  Maureen's got thoughts, Oprah, and much, much more.
[01:25:11]  Don't go away.
[01:25:12]  If you owe the IRS back taxes, they can garnish your wages and levy your bank accounts.
[01:25:18]  They can even seize your retirement or take your home.
[01:25:20]  But don't let the IRS target you.
[01:25:23]  Call the professionals at Tax Network USA.
[01:25:25]  Their tax lawyers and enrolled agents are experts in powerful programs that may even help you eliminate your tax debt.
[01:25:32]  Tax Network USA is A plus rated and has saved over $1 billion for their clients.
[01:25:37]  Whether you owe a few thousand or a few million, they can help you.
[01:25:41]  In just one phone call, you can start the process of stopping the threatening demand letters, stopping the aggressive collections, and resolving your tax matters once and for all.
[01:25:50]  But you have to act now while you still have options.
[01:25:53]  For a free consultation, call Tax Network USA today at 1-800-958-1000 or visit tnusa.com slash Megan.
[01:26:02]  Do not let the IRS be the first to act.
[01:26:09]  We are going on the road.
[01:26:11]  Join me live.
[01:26:12]  Megan Kelly Live, 10 stops across the country.
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[01:27:13]  Back with me now, Maureen Callahan, host of The Nerve.
[01:27:16]  Go and subscribe on YouTube and all podcast platforms, thenerveshow.com, and buy tickets to see us together live on stage.

=== Educating People About All Beauty (13:15) ===

[01:27:25]  If you get the VIP package, I might be able to convince her to come and do pictures with us before the show starts.
[01:27:31]  That is not this upcoming weekend, but the following weekend in California.
[01:27:36]  Go to megankelly.com to buy those tickets now.
[01:27:39]  Okay, so we've been teasing it.
[01:27:41]  Oprah and Gail, they were at the Kardashian event because of course.
[01:27:45]  Right.
[01:27:46]  And honestly, if Gail would spend a little bit more time reading up on the news and trying to be a more fair and interesting anchor, I think her neck might not be on the chopping block over at CBS, but she would never do that because she lives to be Oprah's arm candy and to rub elbows with people like this.
[01:28:07]  Your thoughts?
[01:28:08]  Well, I have many thoughts.
[01:28:10]  Number one, we at The Nerve sent an email directly to Stedman on Monday asking if he was still alive.
[01:28:17]  And if so, to please tell us where he is and the state of his health.
[01:28:20]  We've heard nothing.
[01:28:22]  Maybe that's your answer.
[01:28:23]  We're keeping a countdown because my second question is, Gail and Oprah, what'd you do with the body?
[01:28:28]  Where is it?
[01:28:32]  This would be like my ideal law and order episode, you know, like a media titan and like her beta platonic friend who they may or may not be more, but nobody can ask the question, even though they're going to like the Bezos Sancho's Sanchez wedding in Venice.
[01:28:47]  And like there is an image, like we couldn't run it, but like there's a photo you can find if you Google it.
[01:28:52]  Oprah is sitting on a on a picnic table, which is already gross.
[01:28:56]  And she's got her foot up on the picnic table and Gail's bent over tying her shoelace.
[01:29:02]  I remember that.
[01:29:02]  Yeah.
[01:29:03]  Her beta platonic friend.
[01:29:05]  That's just not what you want to be described as by anybody.
[01:29:08]  No, and then so she goes and does stuff like this, which is 1% stuff.
[01:29:12]  She is the host of a morning show, ostensibly.
[01:29:15]  What average American wants to see Gail swanning around with the Illuminati and then beaming into their living rooms, pretending like none of it happened, but yet Oprah is coming in every month or something, shilling her favorite things or her book of the month or whatever.
[01:29:33]  Oprah is to the CBS morning show, what Hoda now is to the NBC morning show.
[01:29:38]  Yes.
[01:29:38]  Right?
[01:29:39]  Like I just come by to schlock my gear.
[01:29:41]  Yeah, I got an app.
[01:29:42]  I got a motivational thing, like make room for me.
[01:29:47]  And my favorite thing about Gail was this like impromptu presser she did with TMZ after it was announced, CBS announced, like we're prop we're terminating this when it's up in May, the contract.
[01:29:59]  And Gail's out there, that windblown, you know how like 57th and 11th is just like this wind core.
[01:30:04]  The wigs going everywhere.
[01:30:06]  And she's going like, if they're going to fire me, say it to my face, but the wig's like blowing in her face.
[01:30:11]  So you couldn't say anything to her face.
[01:30:13]  It's amazing.
[01:30:14]  I love Gail King.
[01:30:15]  She gives so much.
[01:30:16]  Well, yes.
[01:30:18]  And look, she's hasn't learned a thing from her big spacewalk.
[01:30:22]  So that's Gail.
[01:30:24]  Now, these are not the most maniacal, narcissistic people in the news this week.
[01:30:30]  Amazingly, that prize must go to Michelle Obama, who has been everywhere with this tour of her ridiculous book, trying to promote this ridiculous book.
[01:30:40]  And we have a few latest sound bites of her.
[01:30:44]  As you know, just very much like Corine Jean-Pierre, she's obsessed with race.
[01:30:50]  This is actually from her podcast, not her book tour.
[01:30:53]  But here's a couple samples of what she's been saying these days about black women, Sat 17.
[01:31:00]  And we have to start educating people about all kinds of beauty.
[01:31:04]  Yes.
[01:31:05]  And our beauty is so powerful and so unique that it is worthy of the conversation and it's worthy of demanding the respect that we're owed for who we are and what we offer to the world.
[01:31:22]  Absolutely.
[01:31:23]  Oh my God.
[01:31:24]  It's not 1938.
[01:31:28]  Like we must accept that there are all kinds of beauty, Maureen, because we racist whiteys don't accept that any black person could be beautiful.
[01:31:38]  She's so bigoted against white people.
[01:31:40]  She's so out of her mind.
[01:31:43]  Like Naomi Campbell, Tyra Banks had like one of the biggest competitive reality shows going based on how to be a top model.
[01:31:51]  Whitney Houston, one of the biggest stars of all time.
[01:31:53]  And one of the most beautiful.
[01:31:55]  She started the bodyguard, remember, with Kevin Costner.
[01:31:58]  She was like stunning.
[01:31:59]  It was like an interracial romance for the 80s.
[01:32:01]  Polly Berry.
[01:32:02]  Polly Berry.
[01:32:03]  Very thirsty for attention now, but very, very beautiful.
[01:32:05]  Let's go back to Diana Ross.
[01:32:07]  Let's go back to who starred as Foxy Brown.
[01:32:11]  I forget her name.
[01:32:12]  How about Zoe Kravitz?
[01:32:14]  Like Nisha Bernay, her mother.
[01:32:18]  Like, stop.
[01:32:19]  Just stop.
[01:32:20]  Just suggest we can't accept them as beautiful because they're black.
[01:32:24]  Right, right.
[01:32:25]  You know, and Michelle's, my favorite thing about Michelle.
[01:32:27]  So first of all, she's talking primarily to white women who she wants to buy this book.
[01:32:32]  So she's saying to white women, you're racist.
[01:32:34]  You have a limited concept of beauty.
[01:32:37]  Spend $59 as I did because I have to see the book and they're never going to send it to me for free on my book.
[01:32:44]  This book is an ode to the awesomeness that is Michelle Obama.
[01:32:48]  What's in it?
[01:32:49]  Is it just page after page of her?
[01:32:50]  Of her and her looks and her beauty and how she got to look this way.
[01:32:56]  It's just, it's, it's, I, I, I'll never display it in my home.
[01:33:02]  You know, I just, I, I just, it's, and I love a good coffee table book.
[01:33:05]  Oh, my favorite thing is she says, um, she gave this interview to the New York Times in which the journalist, I believe is also a black woman, went along with her contention that there never before in the 54 first ladies who came before her, uh, did a woman have such difficult hair to style.
[01:33:24]  I can't.
[01:33:25]  Now, I will take umbrage because I consider myself something of an authority on Jackie Onassis.
[01:33:32]  And her hair was so difficult to tame and so kinky.
[01:33:36]  And it really was like the, like her hairstylists were like, you really do have like the texture and hair of like what we would consider black hair.
[01:33:43]  And she wore wigs for the bulk of her time as first lady.
[01:33:47]  No way.
[01:33:47]  Yeah.
[01:33:47]  And like, actually, Joan Kennedy let this slip when she was first in the family.
[01:33:51]  She wasn't like fully media trained.
[01:33:53]  She's like, oh, yeah, Jackie wears wigs all the time.
[01:33:55]  And like, Jackie got upset because like her cover was blown.
[01:33:57]  I didn't know that.
[01:33:58]  Yeah.
[01:33:58]  So Michelle Obama can take a seat.
[01:34:01]  The entire country adored her.
[01:34:03]  And if she's so, by the way, on fire about like black women representing and she's in full flower in her braids, where are the braids on this media tour?
[01:34:12]  Why are we styled like a white woman's hair on this media tour?
[01:34:15]  Yes.
[01:34:16]  The thing about the hair is really annoying because she thinks it's only a black thing.
[01:34:21]  Only only black women spend hours on their hair, whatever, doing to their hair.
[01:34:25]  That's not true.
[01:34:26]  That's a woman thing.
[01:34:27]  It's not a black thing.
[01:34:28]  And by the way, some of us have toddler hair.
[01:34:31]  And so it takes us a long time for that reason.
[01:34:34]  Some of us, like redheads, a lot of redheads who have curly hair have exactly the same issue that a black woman has.
[01:34:41]  Like it's like very coarse and you've got to iron it if you want it to look soft and smooth and silky.
[01:34:46]  A lot of Indian women have the same problem.
[01:34:48]  It's a gift in my view to have that super thick hair, but they may not consider it that way.
[01:34:52]  We all have an issue.
[01:34:54]  You do not see everyone running around all the time, bitching about it and asking for people to see us as like an oppressed group because it takes us a long time to do our hair.
[01:35:06]  Maureen.
[01:35:08]  So this is my theory.
[01:35:09]  I spend more time thinking about this woman than is healthy, I think, but she fascinates me in a morbid way.
[01:35:16]  I think the only thing it's a commonality with Megan Markle.
[01:35:20]  For lack of anything really substantial going on inside, any real talent to offer the world, victimhood stands in for making one feel special and apart.
[01:35:34]  And so this differentiates me.
[01:35:36]  And now, like, I must have a platform.
[01:35:39]  I must make you come to me and understand.
[01:35:41]  And again, it's a hole that will never be filled.
[01:35:44]  What is this?
[01:35:44]  Their third book about how awesome she is?
[01:35:46]  No, it's exactly right.
[01:35:48]  Becoming.
[01:35:49]  And now I think it's 304 pages, right?
[01:35:52]  Something ridiculous.
[01:35:53]  This book?
[01:35:54]  Yeah.
[01:35:54]  I haven't finished it yet.
[01:35:55]  Well, it's long.
[01:35:57]  And here's a little bit more because she had more to say about white women.
[01:36:01]  Sod 18.
[01:36:04]  It's just amazing how we don't see a lot of inspiration for our type of hair on television.
[01:36:12]  And I think that that was a big part of that, part of what kind of got me off on the wrong track in terms of loving my hair.
[01:36:22]  Yeah.
[01:36:23]  Was because when we were growing up, we had no images.
[01:36:27]  There were no images.
[01:36:29]  There was no photography.
[01:36:30]  Black hair, black characters, let alone black children.
[01:36:33]  And I think that a lot of women don't, women, white women, don't understand how problematic it is for young black girls not to see themselves in popular culture and not to pay, to give respect and to show examples of our beauty.
[01:36:52]  Oh my God, black people are literally everywhere.
[01:36:56]  They are so outpacing their number in the actual population.
[01:37:01]  It's absurd.
[01:37:02]  You cannot turn on the television without being bombarded with commercials that have only black people in them.
[01:37:07]  Oh, that's okay.
[01:37:07]  You can never have only whites.
[01:37:08]  Yeah, you can never have only whites in them.
[01:37:10]  What is she saying?
[01:37:11]  They don't have, she is talking like we are 50 years ago.
[01:37:14]  It's 2025, almost 26.
[01:37:17]  Black people are making movies, starring in movies, making commercials, starring in them, TV shows, radio, everything.
[01:37:22]  All over the Grammys, all over the Oscars, all over the Emmys.
[01:37:25]  Like she doesn't want to accept that we've made progress on this front.
[01:37:30]  No, Beyonce, Jay-Z, Blackish, one of the biggest shows of the past 20 years.
[01:37:35]  Abbott Elementary, one of the biggest shows.
[01:37:36]  Scandal, one of the biggest shows.
[01:37:38]  There was a show that was Viola Davis.
[01:37:40]  I forget the name of it.
[01:37:41]  It was like anatomy of a murder or something.
[01:37:43]  But one of the very one of the most arresting episodes that went beyond its place in just network television and became a cultural thing, there was a scene where a very close-up on Viola Davis, where she was removing all of her makeup and then she removed her wig.
[01:37:56]  And you saw, like, you know, a black woman without all the artifice in it.
[01:37:59]  But it also just stands for womanhood as well without without all the artifice.
[01:38:03]  So she's like teleporting in from again, like another century.
[01:38:07]  I don't know what she's talking about.
[01:38:08]  And it's so regressive.
[01:38:10]  Well, I grew up when she grew up.
[01:38:11]  She's a little older than I am, but like there were plenty of black families on television back then.
[01:38:15]  You know, we got times.
[01:38:17]  We lived for the Jeffersons in my house.
[01:38:19]  Sanford and Signs.
[01:38:20]  Sanford.
[01:38:21]  The Cosby show.
[01:38:22]  Hello.
[01:38:23]  We were all raised on the Cosby show.
[01:38:25]  Like, what is she?
[01:38:26]  Why is she pretending?
[01:38:27]  Truly, like I said, it's 1938.
[01:38:30]  We have no television.
[01:38:31]  We have no representation.
[01:38:32]  We have no blacks anywhere doing anything of note.
[01:38:35]  And all of society isn't appreciating how hard it is for little girls like Michelle Obama because of what you said.
[01:38:41]  She needs to feel victimized.
[01:38:43]  And, you know, you get these people across from her.
[01:38:46]  That was her podcast, but any of these interviewers, they're never going to do anything other than bend the knee to Michelle Obama.
[01:38:52]  Her talking about her oppression as a black woman.
[01:38:54]  They're like, yes, I need it more.
[01:38:56]  You know, right?
[01:38:57]  It's like estrogen or what's the word I'm looking at?
[01:38:59]  Endorphins.
[01:39:00]  Maybe estrogen too.
[01:39:02]  All right, we're going to get another one.
[01:39:03]  Hold on.
[01:39:04]  Yes.
[01:39:05]  Okay.
[01:39:05]  This is an oldie, but a goodie.
[01:39:07]  We never got to this the other day.
[01:39:09]  She's still on the hair.
[01:39:10]  This is her going on and on about the issue to ABC in your favorite outfit, SOT 19.
[01:39:18]  That was intentional.
[01:39:21]  To wear her hair this way.
[01:39:22]  It's like having me, the former first lady, a black woman, show up in the world in her natural hair, even if I didn't do it for those eight years.
[01:39:33]  I understood the importance of doing it at some point and signaling a message to young girls and to professionals out there.
[01:39:41]  It's in a bunch.
[01:39:42]  Stay out of our hair, you know.
[01:39:44]  We're just trying to get to work and do it fast and efficiently.
[01:39:48]  Don't tell a black woman how to wear her hair.
[01:39:51]  How I wear my hair should be my choice, and it shouldn't be illegal.
[01:39:55]  It shouldn't be something that can't be done if you're part of the military.
[01:40:00]  Okay, so it's illegal now.
[01:40:02]  And by the way, who was telling her, like, you're the first lady of the United States, you can wear your hair however the fuck you want.
[01:40:07]  If you were too cowardly to wear it the way you wanted, that's a you problem.
[01:40:13]  So my favorite, again, proof to my theory that her team hates her.
[01:40:18]  She wears her hair, as you said, however the fuck she wants.
[01:40:20]  She wears it in pom-poms on top of her head.
[01:40:23]  What you call the stegosaurus?
[01:40:25]  Yes, the stegosaurus.
[01:40:26]  Yes.
[01:40:26]  You know, it's like, it's not, it's, it's, it, it's not a good look.
[01:40:30]  It doesn't look good for her.
[01:40:30]  And again, if it's that consequential as the, as by the way, the first black lady that this country cheered for, everybody was rooting for you.

=== Apple Martin's Confirmed Bullying History (15:29) ===

[01:40:40]  What's that?
[01:40:40]  Like, what's that famous meme?
[01:40:42]  Like, we were all, it's from America's top models, Tyra Banks, going, we were all rooting for you.
[01:40:46]  Yeah.
[01:40:46]  Um, is why doesn't she have braids in her effing official White House portrait?
[01:40:51]  Yes.
[01:40:52]  Do it there.
[01:40:52]  And why isn't she wearing them for her big tour where she wants to talk about braids at every stop?
[01:40:56]  Do it there.
[01:40:56]  I know.
[01:40:57]  All right.
[01:40:57]  Now, listen, we are going to wrap now.
[01:41:00]  Maureen and I are going to continue this, and we're not going to do it on SiriusXM because normally we will, because this is the Megan Kelly channel now, we can.
[01:41:07]  But our after show is just getting started.
[01:41:09]  And so we don't want to be rude to Emily and to the callers who want to call in.
[01:41:12]  So we're going to let them take that.
[01:41:14]  And we will continue this on podcast and on youtube.com.
[01:41:18]  And then once everyone gets settled into their roles here and figures out exactly how we're how we're supposed to use the MK channel, we will continue this so that our SiriusXMers do not have to miss the back half of the conversation.
[01:41:28]  So forgive us.
[01:41:29]  We're figuring it all out.
[01:41:31]  But in the meantime, to hear the end of our conversation, go to youtube.com/slash MeganKelly or just find us on podcast.
[01:41:38]  And thank you all so much for listening.
[01:41:40]  Tomorrow, we're going to be airing our show with Eric Trump, Callie Means, and Piers Morgan.
[01:41:47]  Enjoy that.
[01:41:49]  As President Trump is settling into his new administration, one of the top Democrats in Congress aiming to undermine the Trump agenda is Senator Dick Durbin.
[01:41:58]  And according to our sponsor, the Electronic Payments Coalition, Senator Durbin has a new scheme, a government takeover of your credit card.
[01:42:06]  Today, Americans have thousands of choices in credit cards, but they say Senator Durbin's plan will result in less competition and less security.
[01:42:15]  And that means more risk for your credit and identity.
[01:42:18]  Learn more at guardyourcard.com and consider telling your senators to stop Dick Durbin's government takeover of your credit card before it's too late.
[01:42:30]  And we are back right here at, it's kind of a combo of the Megan Kelly Show and the Nerf.
[01:42:35]  It's the Nervy MK show with Maureen Callahan.
[01:42:39]  So let's keep going.
[01:42:40]  There is, okay, news about Kim Kardashian.
[01:42:45]  Just forgive me.
[01:42:46]  I don't usually do news about Kim Kardashian, but no, we already touched on her once.
[01:42:51]  I've got to, I've got to talk about this as a recovering lawyer myself.
[01:42:55]  Oh, yeah.
[01:42:56]  She's trying to become a lawyer.
[01:42:59]  It's not going well.
[01:43:01]  No.
[01:43:02]  It would help if she could go to law school.
[01:43:05]  Yeah.
[01:43:06]  But apparently she can't get in.
[01:43:08]  Oh.
[01:43:08]  Or just decided to try to take the shortcut.
[01:43:11]  And that's not going well.
[01:43:13]  There is a provision in California, as there is in other states, that allows you to get your legal education through an apprenticeship.
[01:43:22]  If you can find a lawyer who will take you under his or her wing and you can do like enough hours and enough training that you can pass the bar, they will allow it.
[01:43:30]  So after your first year of that, you will have to take something called the baby bar to prove that like you're coming along.
[01:43:38]  Right.
[01:43:39]  She's failed it three times.
[01:43:42]  And I guess try, try again.
[01:43:44]  She must have passed that because most recently she took, she says, the actual California bar exam and failed it, of course, to no one's surprise.
[01:43:56]  And here she is reacting on her show.
[01:43:59]  This is where her focus is now, having failed it and humiliated herself again on her show in SOT 36.
[01:44:06]  I'm just letting you guys know that all of the psychics that we have met with and that we're obsessed with are all full of shit.
[01:44:15]  They all collectively, maybe four of them, have told me I was going to pass the bar.
[01:44:19]  So they're all full pathological liars.
[01:44:22]  Don't believe anything they say.
[01:44:24]  That's her takeaway.
[01:44:27]  The psychics were wrong.
[01:44:29]  Well, you know, it's further proof of her native intelligence.
[01:44:32]  You mean to tell me that people that you pay to tell you what you want to hear and that all of your fantasies will come true if you just wish for them hard enough, that they were not right.
[01:44:41]  They were liars.
[01:44:42]  That's what she said.
[01:44:42]  They lied.
[01:44:43]  Yeah, they were just trying to make her happy.
[01:44:46]  This is a very strange endeavor for me.
[01:44:48]  I don't understand it.
[01:44:50]  Like her desire to become a lawyer.
[01:44:52]  Is it like her issues about her father?
[01:44:55]  Maybe.
[01:44:56]  You know?
[01:44:57]  And here's what I think.
[01:45:00]  She is desperate to be taken seriously now.
[01:45:03]  Yeah.
[01:45:04]  And I have news for you, Kim Kardashian.
[01:45:06]  It is never going to happen.
[01:45:07]  You cannot be taken seriously when you start your career by showing your vagina.
[01:45:11]  It's an unwritten rule, but it is a rule.
[01:45:15]  Releasing your sex tape with somebody performing oral sex on you, it's a no.
[01:45:21]  We're just never going to take you seriously.
[01:45:23]  And then you with the nude photos and the ginormous ass and the general frivolity of your life.
[01:45:29]  It doesn't matter.
[01:45:30]  You could get a physics PhD and we would not take you seriously.
[01:45:35]  We know that exactly how you became famous, exactly how you're all over our magazines and our newspapers and our television.
[01:45:42]  And you should just be happy with that because you're not going to do it.
[01:45:46]  You're not going to convince anybody, even if you manage to squeak out a passage of the bar that you are a serious person who we should listen to.
[01:45:53]  Have you seen any of the new Kim K slash Ryan Murphy drama All's Fair on Hulu?
[01:45:59]  We have, we have a clip.
[01:46:00]  I haven't seen it, but let's take a look.
[01:46:02]  What's a clip of All's Fair?
[01:46:03]  Do we have that, you guys?
[01:46:04]  Yeah.
[01:46:04]  SOP 38, I guess.
[01:46:06]  Let's take a look.
[01:46:09]  No, it's not about what was done to you.
[01:46:11]  It's about where it was done.
[01:46:14]  In the corner of the frame, barely visible, just sticking out underneath the bed, an envelope, a blur.
[01:46:21]  But now an address.
[01:46:24]  1546 East Grand.
[01:46:26]  It's a resident.
[01:46:28]  Okay.
[01:46:29]  His 43-year-old single son.
[01:46:33]  I handled a class action suit against his father, a Ponzi scheme.
[01:46:38]  I'm very sad to see Glenn Close involved in such a thing.
[01:46:42]  Me too.
[01:46:43]  You know, Damages was like a great legal show that ran for a long time and she was phenomenal in it.
[01:46:49]  She has better.
[01:46:50]  Jagged Edge, Fatal Attraction.
[01:46:52]  Yes.
[01:46:52]  I mean, some of the best movies ever.
[01:46:54]  Those great 80s movies that we were talking about not too long ago.
[01:46:58]  So I tried to watch at least one episode of it and I couldn't get through it.
[01:47:02]  And my real problem was Kim Kardashian, she comes across as really dead inside.
[01:47:10]  Like there's no light behind the eyes.
[01:47:14]  There's no inflection in any given line reading whatsoever.
[01:47:17]  Like 1570.
[01:47:20]  Oh, that's the address.
[01:47:21]  Like that's the delivery.
[01:47:23]  She comes across as somebody who is just a mere physical vessel.
[01:47:28]  And we know her too long.
[01:47:31]  That is what she is.
[01:47:31]  She's injecting fat into every sort of, you know, the balm, the breasts, whatever, the lips.
[01:47:39]  She looks like a hybrid of a human being.
[01:47:42]  She doesn't look fully human.
[01:47:43]  Doug calls her and like Angelina Jolie.
[01:47:46]  He said, they look like Mr. Potato Head.
[01:47:48]  Like you just, you inserted some weird enlarged body part on their heads.
[01:47:53]  That's really clever.
[01:47:54]  That's, that's true, actually.
[01:47:55]  Like that, the sort of the huge mouth, like out of nowhere, there's like this huge mouth.
[01:47:59]  And it's just, you know, I think this is why I find the Kardashian Jenners so beyond disturbing.
[01:48:06]  And it goes back to what we were talking about with Harry and Megan.
[01:48:10]  It is a soulless enterprise.
[01:48:12]  Like I really, like, I analogize, like walking into that party is like walking into like the final scene of Rosemary's Baby.
[01:48:20]  Like you've just capitulated.
[01:48:21]  You're like, I'll throw my lot in with the demons and the Satan worshipers because over here, that's all that's all that matters is money and fame and power.
[01:48:28]  That's it.
[01:48:29]  That's it.
[01:48:30]  I mean, I think that's probably why her daughter North continues to make news for her weird piercings.
[01:48:36]  And like the one thing was just body art, but now it appears she's actually gotten a weird piercing.
[01:48:42]  She's only 12.
[01:48:43]  She's only 12.
[01:48:44]  Like my 12-year-old is a sweet little boy who's a sixth grader who is innocent and adorable and like not provocative, not weirdly sexual at an inappropriate age.
[01:48:56]  Like I don't, I just think these people need to stop with like the nonstop parties and the constant on-camera reality TV show stuff and maybe just parent, maybe just be there for them.
[01:49:07]  I was looking at images of Northwest Funny on the way over here and I was having the same thought.
[01:49:12]  You know, my goddaughter is 12 and she's so sweet and she has this real self-awareness of like not wanting to grow up too fast, you know, which I think is so smart.
[01:49:24]  So I don't really worry about her because I think her head is on straight at a very young age.
[01:49:28]  And I look at Northwest and I, so this is my theory.
[01:49:32]  You know, she's got multiple shades of blue, extensions and hair.
[01:49:38]  She is um for her age.
[01:49:40]  She seems not as slender as the Kardashians make themselves to be.
[01:49:45]  Thank god they're not putting her on the Ozimpic.
[01:49:47]  No, I couldn't agree.
[01:49:48]  No, I know.
[01:49:48]  But you, you know.
[01:49:49]  No, I couldn't.
[01:49:50]  She has what the body that they would have if they weren't on the shop and that they would hate themselves for having.
[01:49:54]  Yep, right.
[01:49:55]  So this is the message that a northwest is getting.
[01:49:57]  I look, i'm not like them, i'm not up to par right, i'm not their example of womanhood, which is highly sexualized.
[01:50:05]  Like what are we doing out there if Prince Harry's not ogling our breasts at 70 years old?
[01:50:09]  Like, why live as a woman, right?
[01:50:11]  And so I think her way of differentiating herself and legitimizing herself as a member of this family is to turn herself into kind of the weird one, the one with the piercings, the one with the markings, the artsy one, the one who doesn't, because of her, whatever her artistic leanings may be, doesn't have to conform to a standard of womanhood that this family adheres to, to a point that feels cult-like.
[01:50:37]  Remember when we thought Kanye was the weird one?
[01:50:39]  Oh, my god.
[01:50:40]  Yeah, I mean, like suddenly he looks like the the best parental influence and not Kim Kardashian.
[01:50:47]  I really don't know, but I, I hope.
[01:50:49]  I hope it works out.
[01:50:50]  I really do, I hate I.
[01:50:51]  I certainly don't want any ill will on anybody's children.
[01:50:53]  I just think what are the odds for these poor kids being born into that family?
[01:50:58]  Um however, our real scoring has to be saved.
[01:51:02]  I'm sorry to tell you, but it does.
[01:51:04]  For Apple Martin oh yes, I don't even feel bad about it because she appears to be a confirmed bully who got booted out of Harvard Westlake this very fancy, rich school in La allegedly for bullying reportedly allegedly, and this story has been very stubborn and has never been denied by Gwyneth Paltrow or her father, Chris Martin.
[01:51:27]  The story goes that Apple and it's very hard for a Nepo kid to get kicked out of schools, you know, you got enough money, you can make any problem, go away she allegedly bullied a female classmate to the point where this girl tried to allegedly take her own life, oh my god.
[01:51:43]  Or she walked up very close to it and the school said, you're out, you got to go.
[01:51:48]  And then she grew.
[01:51:49]  She wound up graduating, I think, from Crossroads in La, which was where Gwyneth graduated from.
[01:51:54]  So we know she, she had for a time been at Harvard Westlake.
[01:51:57]  She had.
[01:51:57]  She graduated from a different school that's interesting and she couldn't get into any Ivies either.
[01:52:02]  She's at Vanderbilt.
[01:52:03]  Uh Moses, her brother, is at Brown IVY Light, becoming a good, nonetheless becoming a good little liberal.
[01:52:09]  Well listen, from what I hear, I have it on very good authority that Moses is actually a lovely kid, very talented, very kind and has no interest whatsoever in becoming famous.
[01:52:19]  Well, Brown will beat all those qualities right out of him.
[01:52:21]  You're probably right, that is, you're probably right.
[01:52:24]  Honestly like, if I really really wanted my kids to become Jew haters, I would send them to Brown.
[01:52:29]  That what about?
[01:52:30]  They will?
[01:52:30]  Yeah yeah, it tied.
[01:52:32]  Yeah both, both.
[01:52:33]  But like, that's where you'd go.
[01:52:34]  Yes, i'd know just the school for you.
[01:52:37]  They will totally indoctrinate you into far left thinking.
[01:52:39]  They will make you a wonderful little far left progressive who can't stand Jews, who can't stand conservatives and ultimately can't stand their parents either.
[01:52:48]  Right, you know, I would just never do it.
[01:52:50]  Never never, never would I go to Brown, allow my kids to go to Brown.
[01:52:53]  I'd be like you're paying for it for yourself and we're not visiting for four years.
[01:52:56]  Um, that's a lie, i'd see them.
[01:52:58]  I'm addicted to my children.
[01:52:59]  So Apple Martin she was in the news recently for this horrible singing.
[01:53:03]  We talked about this a bit, but I do want to play this sat 41 karaoke Okay, we get the gist.
[01:53:28]  She's totally off key.
[01:53:29]  She's awful.
[01:53:30]  She's even worse than we were when we did our space adventure and tried to recreate the singing.
[01:53:37]  Yeah, it must have trauma blocked it out.
[01:53:39]  But and I heard on the nerve, you played the song as she released it like a week later.
[01:53:45]  Auto-tuned.
[01:53:46]  Totally on key with everything.
[01:53:48]  Oh, yeah.
[01:53:49]  Sounding like a real chantous.
[01:53:51]  And to me, this is such evidence of a set of parents.
[01:53:55]  That never just told her the truth.
[01:53:57]  For real.
[01:53:58]  You can't sing.
[01:53:59]  You're not good at it.
[01:54:00]  Sorry.
[01:54:01]  Oh, by the way, your father, who's a global rock star, he may know some vocal coaches.
[01:54:06]  Want to put in the hours?
[01:54:07]  Yeah.
[01:54:08]  Right.
[01:54:08]  We can make that happen for you.
[01:54:10]  No, why would you put in work, Megan?
[01:54:13]  Nobody would get up there and sing like that if they knew that's how they sounded.
[01:54:16]  No, of course not.
[01:54:17]  It is such a glittering example of terrible parenting.
[01:54:21]  She's been told her whole life, you're great.
[01:54:23]  Yes, you're special.
[01:54:24]  You're amazing at this.
[01:54:26]  You know what?
[01:54:27]  If you want to do this for a living, get right on up there.
[01:54:29]  You could do it.
[01:54:30]  It actually makes the same thing with the modeling career.
[01:54:33]  Oh, God.
[01:54:33]  Same thing with the modeling career.
[01:54:35]  It makes me wonder what Gwyneth, the, you know, the mother-daughter rivalry and what may be going on with Gwyneth.
[01:54:42]  Because if you really, really love your kid, your daughter, why would you ever expose her to this kind of public ridicule and scorn?
[01:54:49]  Gwyneth's been in the game since she was a teenager.
[01:54:52]  She grew up in this.
[01:54:53]  Her mother was an actress.
[01:54:54]  Her father was a very successful producer.
[01:54:56]  She knows exactly what's going to happen to her daughter in the social media age.
[01:55:00]  She's part of it because she's a snob.
[01:55:02]  Gwyneth Paltrow is a snob.
[01:55:04]  You know this.
[01:55:05]  I've heard you talk about it and we've done reporting on it too.
[01:55:08]  She was like scoffing at Brad Pitt because he didn't know the right caviars to eat.
[01:55:12]  It was just ridiculous.
[01:55:14]  She's so proud of the fact that she went to Spence in New York, which is a great school.
[01:55:19]  Our daughter went to Spence for elementary school before we moved out here.
[01:55:23]  It's a great school.
[01:55:24]  It's a very woke school now.
[01:55:26]  But look, there's a contingent that goes there that's absolutely wonderful.
[01:55:30]  And there's a contingent that goes there because they have like a family like Blythe Danner for the mom.
[01:55:37]  And they have a ton of money and they get accepted.
[01:55:40]  And I would submit that's likely why Gwyneth Paltrow got there.
[01:55:43]  Yep.
[01:55:44]  In any event, Gwyneth, I think, is encouraging this because I saw her at that ridiculous debutante ball like in Paris, right?
[01:55:53]  Where they don't even live.
[01:55:55]  Yep.
[01:55:55]  With Apple Martin, who was reported to be bullying people there too.
[01:56:02]  And that's just not something you would do.
[01:56:03]  Like if your child is humble, it's because you've made sure of it as a parent.
[01:56:08]  Yes.
[01:56:09]  Yes.

=== Gwyneth Squashing Kaya's Competition (05:53) ===

[01:56:10]  Apple was caught on camera forcing another Deb out of the frame and being like, it's me.
[01:56:16]  I'm the star.
[01:56:17]  I'm the star.
[01:56:17]  I'm the, I mean, she's insufferable and she's, um, she's trying to launch herself as a model on the back.
[01:56:23]  Her mother is the one.
[01:56:25]  It's a, it's a very, I think this is a very effed up dynamic.
[01:56:28]  I really do.
[01:56:29]  I think there is something dark going on with Gwyneth and Apple and Apple as a kind of competition that must be squashed very early, very early.
[01:56:39]  This girl is not a model.
[01:56:41]  No.
[01:56:41]  Gwyneth is like this.
[01:56:43]  Okay.
[01:56:43]  Gwyneth is like this.
[01:56:44]  This girl is a little zap tick.
[01:56:46]  You know, it seems like it's her natural body set point.
[01:56:49]  She wants to be like a little bit larger.
[01:56:50]  She has these eyes that are very spaced very far apart and not like in a Kate Moss way in a way that like one eye's looking off over here.
[01:56:58]  Like always awkward.
[01:56:58]  She can't be a model.
[01:57:00]  Like I'm sorry.
[01:57:01]  It's in the job description.
[01:57:02]  You know, Michelle Obama would say Apple's oppressed.
[01:57:05]  I would say Apple just doesn't have what's in the job description.
[01:57:08]  But why Gwyneth would push her out there so early?
[01:57:12]  Because she needs it, right?
[01:57:13]  It's the same reason she needs the validation.
[01:57:15]  It's the same reason parents ruin their children's high school by being like, you've got to get into Harvard.
[01:57:20]  Study more.
[01:57:21]  Put down that remote.
[01:57:22]  There'll be no Super Bowl watching for you.
[01:57:24]  You know, like get back to the books.
[01:57:26]  And they raise these kids who have no personalities, but are perfect SAT scores.
[01:57:30]  Like that's, I don't, I totally disagree with it, but it's because of their egos.
[01:57:35]  They want the Harvard bumper sticker.
[01:57:38]  They want the flag, you know, from Brown or wherever that they can fly on their front flagpole.
[01:57:45]  And I would submit it's the same thing with this.
[01:57:47]  Like Gwyneth is too smart to not understand what those industries will do to a young woman.
[01:57:53]  Why you would take your own child and say, yeah, model.
[01:57:56]  I always joke with my daughter, Yardley, who has zero desire to model, but like when people are like, oh, she's so pretty and people are just being nice, well, whatever.
[01:58:03]  She's a model.
[01:58:04]  I'm like, or I could just get her hooked on heroin at home.
[01:58:06]  Like I just give it right to her.
[01:58:08]  Right, right.
[01:58:08]  You know, she's such a pretty girl.
[01:58:09]  Like, why would I ever want my child to join that industry?
[01:58:13]  Oh, my God.
[01:58:14]  No, my, my brother had the same exact reaction with my niece from a very young age.
[01:58:17]  It was like there were people wanting her to model and he was like, never, ever, not happening.
[01:58:22]  And for that very reason, and it's, that's such a good point.
[01:58:25]  It hadn't occurred to me, but Gwyneth, who went public with what she went through with Harvey Weinstein, okay, you know, and she was a nepo, like her godfather, Steven Spielberg, you would think she would have been protected from that.
[01:58:37]  So she knows that there's no amount of parental prominence that will protect you from predators like that.
[01:58:44]  Okay.
[01:58:44]  They're going to get to you somehow.
[01:58:46]  You would think she would say, Apple, maybe why don't you go for something a little bit less study tech or English lit or something that will help you use your brain and develop actual confidence.
[01:59:00]  Right.
[01:59:01]  As opposed to trying to backdraft between behind two parents who are very successful, whose careers, let's face it, you will never emulate.
[01:59:08]  Right.
[01:59:09]  You will never match in those particular fields.
[01:59:11]  I mean, the odds are overwhelming that it won't happen.
[01:59:13]  Sometimes the sequel can be better than the original, but I mean, you can count on one time, one hand, the number of times it's happened.
[01:59:18]  Godfather.
[01:59:19]  I don't, I can't think of another word.
[01:59:21]  Michael Douglas.
[01:59:23]  Yes.
[01:59:24]  Okay.
[01:59:24]  I accept versus Kirk.
[01:59:26]  Right.
[01:59:26]  I got that.
[01:59:26]  Kirk, yeah.
[01:59:27]  Yeah.
[01:59:27]  That's okay, but it's very rare.
[01:59:29]  Very rare.
[01:59:30]  So why not encourage her to do something that is completely different, right?
[01:59:33]  It's because I think your ego needs it.
[01:59:36]  You get a Jones off of seeing her like, oh, chip off the old block.
[01:59:40]  And it gives you a chance to relive your youth.
[01:59:43]  You know, Shakespeare in love when she won the Oscar.
[01:59:46]  It's like she can come and be the elder stateswoman now at these events.
[01:59:49]  Like Gwyneth is here with her offspring.
[01:59:52]  This is such a fascinating debate because I wonder if, let's thought experiment, Apple was a prodigy.
[02:00:00]  Apple had acting chops that surpassed her mother.
[02:00:04]  Apple was more beautiful than her mother.
[02:00:07]  Is Gwyneth as promoting or is Gwyneth more like, I can't have you eclipse me?
[02:00:13]  Right.
[02:00:14]  Like the egos are at that level are so difficult to divine.
[02:00:18]  You know, that's so true.
[02:00:20]  I don't know the answer to that.
[02:00:21]  That's true because unfortunately, a lot of people have mother-daughter tension because the mother does see the daughter as competition.
[02:00:26]  And that can ruin a lot of mother-daughter relationships.
[02:00:29]  But I don't know.
[02:00:30]  I'm trying to think like Kaya Gerber is, I don't think she's more beautiful than Cindy Crawford was in her prime, but she's just as.
[02:00:37]  I mean, Kaya Gerber is like fall over stunning to look at.
[02:00:41]  But Cindy Crawford and her husband, Randy Gerber, seem like decent people to me.
[02:00:46]  Like that seems to be, I don't know.
[02:00:50]  You never hear about like, he's all over the place cheating on her.
[02:00:53]  She doesn't show up at the Kardashian things.
[02:00:56]  You know, Kaya's a model, but who wouldn't make Kaya a model?
[02:00:59]  Like that's one that's like staring you in the face.
[02:01:02]  If you don't, she's like seven feet tall, the body and the Cindy face.
[02:01:07]  You disagree?
[02:01:08]  I don't know.
[02:01:08]  So I'm of two minds about it because it's like, first of all, she is like a little Xerox version of Cindy.
[02:01:14]  Right.
[02:01:15]  And I feel like you'd have to approach that very delicately.
[02:01:19]  Like, you don't have to go into that industry because I was that successful in that industry.
[02:01:24]  Cindy had a spark that I find Kaya does not.
[02:01:27]  I feel like a lot of these younger models, they are dead behind the eyes.
[02:01:31]  Kendall Jenner, who bought a new face, is dead behind the eyes.
[02:01:34]  She did buy it.
[02:01:35]  Kelly Bieber, who bought a new face, is dead behind the eyes.
[02:01:38]  I haven't seen Kaya Gerber's original face, but I would bet there's been some work done.
[02:01:42]  Most of those girls at that level, they've had some work done.
[02:01:45]  I don't know.
[02:01:45]  I feel like I've been watching that one since she was little because of Cindy and she looks, she's always been just stunning.
[02:01:51]  But I don't know.
[02:01:52]  Like, I respect the couples who I don't hear anything about.
[02:01:54]  Yeah.
[02:01:54]  You know?
[02:01:55]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[02:01:55]  I know that they did their tequila and all that.
[02:01:57]  Like, whatever.
[02:01:58]  That's, that's business.
[02:01:59]  But I appreciate the fact that Cindy Crawford is not in the trade rags all the time.
[02:02:03]  She's not.

=== Fakesgiving Reveal and Dead Eyes (06:27) ===

[02:02:04]  She seems to be like quiet mothering, which I appreciate.
[02:02:07]  By the way, speaking of this group of people, do we believe that Kylie Jenner was dumped by Timothy Chalamet or do we not?
[02:02:17]  I believe that.
[02:02:18]  You know why?
[02:02:18]  Why?
[02:02:19]  Timmy's got a movie coming out in a few weeks called Marty Supreme, co-starring Gwyneth Paltrow as his much older lover.
[02:02:26]  Right.
[02:02:27]  And Timmy wants the Oscar.
[02:02:28]  And it's not happening if we're together with Kylie Jenner.
[02:02:31]  It's not happening.
[02:02:32]  She's got to go.
[02:02:33]  Oh, that's ruthless.
[02:02:35]  Megan.
[02:02:36]  I know.
[02:02:37]  Come on.
[02:02:38]  I know.
[02:02:39]  Oh, my gosh.
[02:02:40]  Well, yeah.
[02:02:41]  It was reported by the Daily Mail that he dumped her.
[02:02:43]  And then she liked a post of his online.
[02:02:46]  So other mags were speculating.
[02:02:48]  Maybe they are still together.
[02:02:50]  That was her way of clapping back against the Daily Mail.
[02:02:54]  It's very rare that the Daily Mail has it wrong.
[02:02:57]  It's rare that the mail has it wrong.
[02:02:58]  And also, if it weren't true, why wouldn't he, like, why wouldn't they make sure to be photographed together immediately?
[02:03:04]  Yes.
[02:03:04]  Or put something up on social media immediately just to like push back on those rumors.
[02:03:08]  Like, who do you think?
[02:03:10]  Here's what I think he's going to do.
[02:03:11]  I think he's going to take his mom to all of these events.
[02:03:14]  Oh, right.
[02:03:14]  That's the play.
[02:03:16]  That's the play.
[02:03:16]  We take mom.
[02:03:18]  So last but not least, tomorrow we're on tape, which is just fortunate because we've been airing our tour interviews on our Fridays.
[02:03:26]  And I mentioned this to you a little in the commercial break.
[02:03:29]  We are doing something here called Fakes Giving.
[02:03:32]  Oh, yeah.
[02:03:33]  We do it now.
[02:03:34]  This is our third year running.
[02:03:35]  And I highly recommend this to everybody.
[02:03:37]  Fakes Giving is the fake Thanksgiving where all of our relatives, well, most of them, not all of them, but many of our relatives are coming.
[02:03:46]  And we all celebrate Thanksgiving together a week or two weeks early before the actual holiday.
[02:03:52]  And the reason this started was after my sister died.
[02:03:56]  Her kids are all in their 20s or early 30s now.
[02:03:59]  And we wanted to be together as a family, but they're all young.
[02:04:02]  They're starting their careers or they just got married.
[02:04:05]  And so they have their own independent obligations that they need to see through.
[02:04:08]  Like if not on Thanksgiving, though some of them do have to work as they're young on holidays, then right around it and or they want to go to their spouses, you know, all that.
[02:04:17]  So I was like, why don't we just move it back a week or two and then we can all be together and then everybody on the actual holiday can do what they need to do.
[02:04:24]  And we love it.
[02:04:26]  It is such a great gathering.
[02:04:28]  There's no pressure.
[02:04:29]  You can get a caterer because you and I don't cook so much more easily two weeks before Thanksgiving than you can on the actual Thanksgiving.
[02:04:37]  Trust me, I know.
[02:04:39]  And there's like, it's a little warmer.
[02:04:42]  There's no travel pressure.
[02:04:44]  So true.
[02:04:45]  Nothing, no packed airports, no packed streets, you know, highways.
[02:04:50]  So it is a true joy.
[02:04:52]  And it also gives you the added benefit of you kind of get to celebrate Thanksgiving twice.
[02:04:56]  Yeah.
[02:04:57]  I don't cook, so that's a plus for me, right?
[02:04:59]  People at home who actually cook are like, that's not a joy.
[02:05:01]  What are you saying?
[02:05:02]  But I'll have the caterers do this.
[02:05:04]  And then the actual Thanksgiving will probably wind up going out to this place that does it.
[02:05:07]  But anyway, it's a family tradition that we started a few years ago.
[02:05:11]  Highly recommend.
[02:05:12]  I love that.
[02:05:13]  I have, I have friends who have like at least two Thanksgivings and it's a similar thing.
[02:05:20]  It's sort of like you do the one that's like the more formal one.
[02:05:26]  Yeah.
[02:05:26]  And then you do, and it seems like you're, you're, you, you're doing something similar.
[02:05:30]  Well, not formal so much, but then the second one is sort of like much looser.
[02:05:33]  Yeah.
[02:05:33]  And it's not on the day.
[02:05:35]  It could be after the day.
[02:05:36]  Yes.
[02:05:36]  It could be before the day, but everything about it just feels looser and more fun because there's also no, you know, we're going to do an episode before Thanksgiving on the nerve about all the anxiety that comes leading up to Thanksgiving and how to deal with like your own freak outs about like difficult family dynamics or like that one relative who's always there who everybody hates or you know there's always something but it the messaging we're always getting is like Thanksgiving is just the best holiday there is.
[02:06:07]  It's family and it's, you know, it's like, it's, I mean, you come from an Irish family.
[02:06:10]  You probably understand the stuff that can go on on a Thanksgiving, but I love it.
[02:06:15]  And I'm always part of a second Thanksgiving because I have my friends throw it and it's, it's always the best.
[02:06:21]  I have to say, I absolutely love it.
[02:06:23]  And then the holiday comes and I feel very little stress, right?
[02:06:25]  Because it's like I've already hosted the event.
[02:06:28]  And I, one other thing I want to say, we don't have a huge dining room table in our house.
[02:06:34]  You know, we're only a family of five.
[02:06:36]  It seats maybe 10 or I guess you could go 12 with a table expander.
[02:06:41]  Anyway, I don't entertain a lot, as you can hear, but I really have no idea how many people can sit at my dining room table.
[02:06:49]  But anyway, for this, we do have a large foyer for some reason.
[02:06:54]  In our house, I don't know why the foyer is so big, but we remove like the front hall table and we take four of those like, you know, the tables that you would set up if you were doing like a concession stand outside of a, you know, bake sale, that kind of thing.
[02:07:08]  We take four of those and we put them in a big square and we cover them.
[02:07:13]  And then we get just like those little, I don't know how to explain it, but like a wooden post with like a bottom that is sturdy that won't fall over, like a round bottom that's kind of heavy.
[02:07:22]  And then the post comes up and it and you can kind of make it come up as much as you want.
[02:07:27]  Anyway, and then we string the white fairy lights between the four posts.
[02:07:33]  It is like the easiest way to make a large, fun dining room table where everyone can see each other and still converse.
[02:07:42]  That's so cute.
[02:07:43]  I think I am as ever.
[02:07:46]  It might be more, you know, let's like, let's bookmark this for With Love Megan holiday edition.
[02:07:51]  Yes.
[02:07:52]  Like let's string some lights and like show everybody just how easy it is to be the consummate hostess.
[02:07:57]  Exactly.
[02:07:58]  I'm actually very proud of my Fakesgiving plan.
[02:08:01]  And trust me, if I can do it, you can do it.
[02:08:05]  Anyway.
[02:08:06]  I'll see you after Fakesgiving.
[02:08:08]  I look forward to the Fakesgiving or Thanksgiving reveal on The Nerve.
[02:08:12]  Well, thanks.
[02:08:12]  I love talking to you.
[02:08:13]  I love talking to you.
[02:08:14]  All right.
[02:08:14]  And I'll see you in Anaheim.
[02:08:15]  See you in Anaheim.
[02:08:16]  You can see us all in Anaheim.
[02:08:19]  Go to megankelly.com to get tickets right now.
[02:08:21]  And don't forget, subscribe to the nerveshow.com.
[02:08:25]  See you soon.
[02:08:27]  Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly Show.
[02:08:29]  No BS, no agenda, and no