The Megyn Kelly Show - 20250526_delta-force-operator-john-mcphee-on-afghan-war-sto
Aired: 2025-05-26
Duration: 01:19:25


=== Parents and Hard Times (14:44) ===

[00:00:00]  Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at Noon East.
[00:00:12]  Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly.
[00:00:13]  Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show.
[00:00:15]  On this Memorial Day, we honor all of the brave men and women who have made the ultimate sacrifice to keep the United States of America free and prosperous.
[00:00:23]  As we do every Memorial Day, we are bringing you the story of a remarkable veteran and what a story this vet has.
[00:00:30]  Joining me today is retired U.S. Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee, aka the sheriff of Baghdad.
[00:00:38]  John served our country for over 20 years, specializing in various special mission units and combat experience across multiple theaters, including Afghanistan and Iraq, where he hunted both Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein.
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[00:02:07]  John, great to have you.
[00:02:08]  Thank you.
[00:02:08]  How you doing?
[00:02:10]  Pretty good.
[00:02:10]  Pretty good.
[00:02:11]  Quite a lead up there.
[00:02:12]  Well, my God, I mean, you've done a lot.
[00:02:14]  I've tried.
[00:02:15]  I tried.
[00:02:15]  When I say that, when you hear that intro read, given all the time that you spent, you know, serving the country, what's the one that like you focus on?
[00:02:22]  Like, that's the one thing that really kind of defined the surface in my mind.
[00:02:27]  Man, kind of none of that, I guess.
[00:02:29]  You know what I mean?
[00:02:30]  Like later in the war, as leadership, like that was a challenge.
[00:02:37]  You know what I mean?
[00:02:38]  Those like the Battle of Tora Bora, I was a new guy.
[00:02:40]  Like, let's go kill everybody.
[00:02:42]  You know what I mean?
[00:02:43]  And then the war rages on.
[00:02:46]  You learn.
[00:02:46]  You're more experienced.
[00:02:49]  You just learn.
[00:02:50]  As it goes on, you're going to learn different lessons.
[00:02:53]  Everybody's going to do this.
[00:02:54]  And I think the lessons I learned as a young guy weren't the lessons I needed.
[00:03:02]  Really?
[00:03:03]  Yeah.
[00:03:03]  Everybody learns, right?
[00:03:04]  Everyone makes mistakes.
[00:03:05]  When I read your bio, I thought the opposite because you had a very rough childhood.
[00:03:09]  Yeah.
[00:03:10]  And I thought it made him one tough SOB.
[00:03:13]  Maybe.
[00:03:14]  Yeah.
[00:03:14]  And, you know, capable of doing what needed to be done in like the darkest days of Iraq and Afghanistan.
[00:03:20]  Yeah.
[00:03:21]  And so I tell everyone this.
[00:03:26]  I'm a regular guy.
[00:03:27]  I do everything everyone else does.
[00:03:31]  I joined the army.
[00:03:32]  And I think when 9-11 happened, I was too far in to like choose a different life.
[00:03:41]  You know what I mean?
[00:03:43]  Let's start back at the young John, south side of Chicago.
[00:03:47]  Yeah.
[00:03:47]  Only white kid in the class.
[00:03:49]  Yeah, for a long time.
[00:03:50]  How'd that happen?
[00:03:52]  I don't know.
[00:03:53]  You get in fights.
[00:03:55]  You go to ding-dong.
[00:03:56]  They call it ding-dong school.
[00:03:58]  That's where kids fight all the time.
[00:04:01]  And you end up there.
[00:04:02]  How did your parents settle in a neighborhood where you would wind up being the only one white kid?
[00:04:06]  That's where we lived.
[00:04:08]  Like, it's South Chicago.
[00:04:10]  It's where we lived.
[00:04:11]  You know what I mean?
[00:04:12]  I would say the South Chicago of the 70s, 80s was like a different place.
[00:04:20]  So I know that you were very badly bullied on the bus every day.
[00:04:24]  I heard you telling our pal, Sean Ryan, about that.
[00:04:26]  I mean, it was every day they beat you up.
[00:04:28]  Daily.
[00:04:28]  Well, no, till they got me a cab.
[00:04:31]  I mean, it must have been bad for the South Side of Chicago school system to get you a cab every day to school.
[00:04:36]  I think, yeah, yeah.
[00:04:38]  It cost, well, it cost them a lot of money because the police would have to come to the bus on the side of the road.
[00:04:43]  They'd have to break up the fight.
[00:04:46]  And then the seats were broke.
[00:04:47]  A window was broke.
[00:04:49]  And then the school's got to pay for all of that.
[00:04:50]  And then by the time we get to school, school would be over.
[00:04:53]  How old were you?
[00:04:54]  I don't know.
[00:04:57]  Sophomore, freshman, maybe.
[00:04:59]  Sophomore.
[00:05:00]  So sad.
[00:05:00]  I have a freshman and the thought of that happening to him every day is upsetting.
[00:05:05]  I mean, it's heartbreaking.
[00:05:06]  Your parents never intervened.
[00:05:09]  Did they know?
[00:05:10]  Oh, they knew, yeah.
[00:05:12]  Did they do anything?
[00:05:13]  What are they going to do?
[00:05:15]  Get you out of there.
[00:05:17]  That would have been a good idea.
[00:05:19]  They probably never thought of that.
[00:05:20]  That's a good idea.
[00:05:22]  So what was the story?
[00:05:22]  Were they just young?
[00:05:24]  With substance abuse?
[00:05:24]  Yes.
[00:05:25]  No, I think my parents were young.
[00:05:27]  I think my mom was, I don't know, maybe always kind of maybe just bitter as a lady.
[00:05:33]  You know what I mean?
[00:05:34]  She was like the like mean divorced lady most of the time.
[00:05:39]  And like, I just think that's how people thought their lives should be.
[00:05:45]  I don't know.
[00:05:45]  Did you have siblings?
[00:05:46]  Yeah, I have a brother.
[00:05:47]  Is he older or younger?
[00:05:48]  Older.
[00:05:49]  So did he go through this too?
[00:05:50]  Yeah, but he's just a little older than me.
[00:05:52]  Yeah.
[00:05:53]  But I just can't imagine like a mother allowing this to just keep happening to her child.
[00:05:59]  Yeah.
[00:06:00]  Well, here I am.
[00:06:01]  You know what I mean?
[00:06:02]  What are you going to do?
[00:06:03]  Did you like maintain?
[00:06:04]  I know you wound up living in a brothel, which is another interesting story.
[00:06:07]  But did you keep contact with your mom?
[00:06:10]  Yeah.
[00:06:11]  Is she still around?
[00:06:12]  No, she died, I don't know, a while ago.
[00:06:15]  So you, did you, were you close?
[00:06:18]  I mean, yeah, as close as you could kind of be with someone that you know is always like mean, bitter.
[00:06:25]  Wow.
[00:06:25]  You know what I mean?
[00:06:26]  What happened in her life that left her there?
[00:06:29]  I don't know.
[00:06:29]  I don't got the energy to like hang on to that much shit.
[00:06:33]  You know what I mean?
[00:06:33]  Yeah, good.
[00:06:34]  Yeah.
[00:06:34]  So.
[00:06:35]  No, we always joke.
[00:06:36]  My husband's brother, they're Presbyterian.
[00:06:39]  And he always jokes when you're thinking about something like that.
[00:06:42]  Push it down.
[00:06:43]  Push it down.
[00:06:44]  Yeah.
[00:06:45]  He's not wrong.
[00:06:45]  I mean, on some things.
[00:06:46]  You got to let it go.
[00:06:47]  Yeah.
[00:06:48]  Like letting it go is the better way.
[00:06:50]  You know what I mean?
[00:06:51]  But the beatings, that would be tough to let go.
[00:06:53]  I mean, I just feel like, did that create any resentment in you?
[00:07:01]  I don't know.
[00:07:02]  Yes.
[00:07:04]  I mean, of course it did.
[00:07:05]  It did.
[00:07:06]  It didn't.
[00:07:06]  I mean, look, I look at it this way.
[00:07:08]  I turned out the way I turned out.
[00:07:11]  And I think anybody in the situations I was in would come out the same way.
[00:07:18]  And then you have to realize, like, you got to want to choose good.
[00:07:24]  You know, it's easy for people to be bad.
[00:07:26]  And I say this all the time.
[00:07:27]  No one has bad intent, but shit gets fucked up.
[00:07:30]  Oh, can I say that?
[00:07:31]  Yeah, you can.
[00:07:33]  I wouldn't have had you on if you couldn't say that word.
[00:07:35]  That's your favorite word.
[00:07:36]  Yeah, I know, right?
[00:07:37]  I'm trying to be nice.
[00:07:39]  But shit gets fucked up.
[00:07:40]  So, you know, I don't think my parents have bad intent.
[00:07:44]  I don't think they were bad people.
[00:07:45]  I think they were young.
[00:07:46]  I think they drank.
[00:07:47]  You know, anytime you drink, like, you know, I used to drink a ton, but anytime you drink, like, you know, of course there's going to be drama.
[00:07:56]  That's it, it takes your filters away.
[00:08:00]  You know what I mean?
[00:08:01]  Like, it's probably a better way to deal with than telling someone just to, you know, so I think it's just like a product of being young.
[00:08:09]  I don't think anyone had a bad intent.
[00:08:11]  I just think it, it is what it is.
[00:08:13]  And, and I tell you, it's probably, it's generational.
[00:08:15]  I mean, I'm not the only one, you know what I mean?
[00:08:17]  But I would say it's generational.
[00:08:19]  And I'd say there's kids in the same neighborhoods living about the same life and their parents were probably in school with me.
[00:08:25]  You know what I mean?
[00:08:27]  And I think that's just how it works.
[00:08:29]  It's like a cycle.
[00:08:30]  Does it create like a resentment toward black people?
[00:08:33]  If you have schoolmates beating you up every day?
[00:08:36]  No.
[00:08:36]  How do you get past that?
[00:08:38]  I could see how that would cause some.
[00:08:39]  I was the easy target.
[00:08:41]  Like, you know, later in school, I didn't get beat up every day because I realized I learned to fight.
[00:08:48]  I could protect myself and like a lot of the actual gang leaders in that.
[00:08:54]  Like they respected that.
[00:08:56]  And so I didn't really have, I had to earn my way in, I guess.
[00:09:00]  But once I earned my way in, it was fairly easy for me.
[00:09:04]  I mean, and I look at it this way is like, you know, look, you could be the victim.
[00:09:10]  Okay, great.
[00:09:11]  And what's next?
[00:09:12]  What good is that going to do you?
[00:09:14]  How long are you going to do that for?
[00:09:15]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:09:16]  I'm guessing that given the way you describe the school system there, you were not on the college track and you knew that.
[00:09:22]  Yeah.
[00:09:22]  Yeah.
[00:09:23]  Very much.
[00:09:24]  Did you know you're going to wind up in the armed forces, though?
[00:09:26]  Was that a whole?
[00:09:27]  You know, I knew I wanted to join.
[00:09:30]  I kind of joined late.
[00:09:31]  I was almost 21, but I wanted to join, but I didn't know like when, you know what I mean?
[00:09:38]  And then one day I was just like, fuck it, let's go.
[00:09:41]  Okay.
[00:09:41]  We'll get to that, but I got to spend a minute on the brothel since I mentioned it.
[00:09:45]  How did two guys, two kids wind up living in a brothel?
[00:09:49]  Well, I don't know.
[00:09:51]  You know, they say hookers have a heart of gold.
[00:09:53]  You know what I mean?
[00:09:56]  Is that what happened?
[00:09:57]  A hooker took you in?
[00:09:58]  Yeah.
[00:09:59]  Yeah.
[00:09:59]  And we weren't the only kids, you know what I mean?
[00:10:02]  But you weren't?
[00:10:03]  No.
[00:10:04]  Who else was in there?
[00:10:05]  How many?
[00:10:05]  She had kids.
[00:10:06]  And like, so me and my brother helped raise other kids, stuff like that.
[00:10:10]  Well, what happened to your parents?
[00:10:12]  Me and my brother decided we would be better on our own.
[00:10:15]  How old were you here?
[00:10:18]  I don't know, 12, 13?
[00:10:20]  Maybe pre-high school.
[00:10:21]  So you went back with your parents by 15 when the bus situation was happening?
[00:10:26]  No, I went to school myself.
[00:10:28]  Okay, walk me through it.
[00:10:29]  So you're growing up, you're with your parents until around 12, and then you wind up living at a brothel.
[00:10:34]  Me and my brother.
[00:10:34]  How'd you get connected with this woman running the brothel?
[00:10:37]  Well, I was living with my, I guess, my stepmom.
[00:10:41]  Anyway, it's a mess, you know, but I was living with my stepmom and then me and my brother just moved over there and they were nicer to me than anyone else I knew, you know what I mean?
[00:10:52]  And was that what you were there for the duration until you hit 18?
[00:10:55]  No, I was only there for a little bit.
[00:10:58]  Let's see what else happened.
[00:11:01]  I don't know.
[00:11:01]  I didn't live there that long.
[00:11:02]  Like just, I don't know.
[00:11:04]  High school, most of my high school years, but that was it.
[00:11:08]  Okay.
[00:11:08]  Yeah.
[00:11:09]  So now you got to find a direction once you hit 18.
[00:11:11]  You got to do something.
[00:11:12]  Well, I always worked.
[00:11:13]  I've been working since I was a little kid.
[00:11:15]  I was a welder.
[00:11:16]  I worked on trucks.
[00:11:17]  So that's another thing I did is I always showed up to work on time, put myself to work, like earned money.
[00:11:24]  You had a couple of skills that are completely foreign to me, like being good with an engine and being a good navigator.
[00:11:31]  Yeah.
[00:11:31]  I don't, I think you're born with that.
[00:11:32]  You're not born with that.
[00:11:33]  Am I wrong?
[00:11:35]  I don't know.
[00:11:36]  Maybe.
[00:11:37]  Did you always have that ability, that sense of navigation?
[00:11:39]  Because you really needed it.
[00:11:41]  It would become very important to you in your military system.
[00:11:44]  I am very good at navigation.
[00:11:46]  I don't know.
[00:11:46]  I guess you're born with it because I would have never thought and I've never not been good at it.
[00:11:50]  Have you, have you, do you get lost a lot?
[00:11:52]  Never.
[00:11:53]  I've always lost.
[00:11:55]  Don't understand when you don't have this gift.
[00:11:56]  It's so frustrating.
[00:11:57]  I'm at the point when I drive whatever my instinct is, I know to do the opposite, like a George Costanza situation.
[00:12:03]  Like I just know, do not whatever my instincts are telling me, it's wrong.
[00:12:06]  When it comes to directions, i'm missing this chip.
[00:12:10]  You could get a gps.
[00:12:11]  Well, I do.
[00:12:12]  Thankfully, I live in 2025.
[00:12:13]  Yeah nowadays, like I could get lost nowadays, i'd say that only because like, I just listened to the lady on my phone, turn left okay yes uh so, but no, I have a pretty good sense of direction.
[00:12:24]  I maybe, it's natural, I don't know.
[00:12:26]  So what, during these formative years before we go off and and join the military, are you, do you're dating?
[00:12:32]  Is there a special woman in your life?
[00:12:34]  No, not really, nobody.
[00:12:36]  No, like you hadn't been in love yet.
[00:12:39]  Um yeah no, I pretty much avoided people most of my childhood.
[00:12:43]  You know what I mean.
[00:12:45]  Did anything happen in the brothel that would deflower you or?
[00:12:48]  Uh, no comment okay, I just saying it seems like no comment, seems like an obvious thing to do.
[00:12:59]  Um okay, so you originally wanted to join the AIR Force why?
[00:13:03]  Yeah uh well, I was a mechanic, right?
[00:13:05]  Uh, very mechanically inclined.
[00:13:08]  Uh, I was a welder as well.
[00:13:09]  I fixed a lot of semi-trucks broken frames um, dump trucks, whole wall collapse stuff and it'd take me like weeks to rebuild these trucks, but it's kind of what I did.
[00:13:20]  And then um, and then yeah uh, I figured I could do this for the AIR Force.
[00:13:25]  You know what I mean.
[00:13:26]  And then uh, the biggest thing was like my hands were like always black, like cracked fingers, like you're always welding.
[00:13:34]  It's always dirty uh greasy, dirty stuff working on these uh trucks right, and like honestly, my thought was, no girl is ever gonna let me put my hand in her pants if she sees my hand.
[00:13:48]  You know what I mean.
[00:13:48]  There's just it's not happening.
[00:13:49]  You know what I mean.
[00:13:50]  Does that stuff not come off with the right soap?
[00:13:52]  I don't care how much soap you got like when you work like that, like your hands are black.
[00:13:57]  So uh yeah so uh, I figured I got to do something else.
[00:14:01]  You know what I mean.
[00:14:02]  Like I, I just can't do this forever, you know, only because I was always dirty every day and you couldn't, you couldn't like not be dirty, like even your days off, you couldn't wash and you weren't clean.
[00:14:13]  You know what I mean.
[00:14:14]  So uh, I figured well, maybe now's the time to join the ARMY.
[00:14:18]  And so, what happened at the AIR Force?
[00:14:21]  They said uh, I didn't have high enough skills to uh be a mechanic, which I was.
[00:14:28]  Uh, they told me uh, I could be admin.
[00:14:31]  And i'm like okay, what's that?
[00:14:33]  Maybe i'll do this.
[00:14:34]  What's an admin?
[00:14:35]  And um, he was like well, you type memos, maybe process awards, and I was like my mom's a secretary, like that's what that sounds like.
[00:14:44]  I'm out, you know.

=== Special Forces Selection (15:23) ===

[00:14:45]  Yeah, talk about misjudging a man.
[00:14:47]  Yeah, and uh, they're like, head son, have you talked to the Marines of the ARMY yet?
[00:14:51]  And i'm like uh no, I didn't even think of it, you know.
[00:14:55]  So I went to the ARMY.
[00:14:56]  Why the ARMY?
[00:14:57]  Uh well, a buddy of mine was an airborne ranger and said how great it was.
[00:15:01]  So I just went down there and told him I wanted to be an airborne ranger.
[00:15:04]  Did they give you a hard time?
[00:15:05]  Oh yeah, they did too.
[00:15:06]  Oh, yeah.
[00:15:07]  Everybody's giving you a hard time.
[00:15:08]  Oh, yeah.
[00:15:09]  Right.
[00:15:09]  Well, I had like a.
[00:15:10]  So first off, I had a mullet.
[00:15:12]  Like, but who didn't have to say that?
[00:15:14]  You know what I mean?
[00:15:15]  What year are we in now?
[00:15:15]  We got to be like 90s.
[00:15:18]  80.
[00:15:19]  No, 90, 89 is what I was talking about.
[00:15:21]  Yeah, you're my age, I think.
[00:15:22]  Yeah.
[00:15:23]  Yeah.
[00:15:23]  So I had a mullet and they're like, you know, guys, like, yo, Bob, hey, this guy wants to be a Ranger.
[00:15:30]  And they come out and they like laughed at me.
[00:15:32]  I mean, don't they shave your head anyway?
[00:15:33]  What do they care what your hair looks like?
[00:15:35]  I don't know.
[00:15:35]  But yeah, I was just like this skinny mullet head kid, you know, and they didn't believe in me, but I didn't care, you know.
[00:15:43]  Right.
[00:15:43]  You might have been used to that feeling.
[00:15:45]  Yeah.
[00:15:45]  Yeah.
[00:15:46]  I figured, I figured, well, Bob was a fat, bald guy anyway.
[00:15:49]  So like, you know, Bob, you're not impressive.
[00:15:51]  And the guy I was talking to seemed like a dullard.
[00:15:54]  So it's not like these guys impressed me.
[00:15:56]  I just knew there was more to the army.
[00:15:58]  You know what I mean?
[00:15:58]  So this is all before 9-11.
[00:16:01]  You know, you're signing up, but you don't know exactly what you're signing up for, I assume.
[00:16:04]  It's just, I want to be part of the military.
[00:16:07]  Yeah, I had no idea.
[00:16:08]  I didn't know if I was doing, like, in my day, it was like, you sign up for the college money.
[00:16:12]  You know what I mean?
[00:16:13]  Like people did.
[00:16:14]  I didn't know why I signed up.
[00:16:16]  And I definitely didn't think I needed college money whatsoever.
[00:16:19]  You know what I mean?
[00:16:21]  But yeah, I joined all my family.
[00:16:23]  You know, it turned out it's like a family business.
[00:16:26]  My grandpa was both my grandpa's, my great-grandpa, World War II.
[00:16:30]  Like, so it turned out a lot of people in my family were in the service and like no one really talked about it.
[00:16:37]  You know what I mean?
[00:16:38]  That's pretty cool.
[00:16:39]  Yeah.
[00:16:40]  So you escalated up the ranks, it seems to me, pretty quickly.
[00:16:44]  You like you got moved from thing to thing, challenge to challenge, some of which were a surprise to you, but didn't sound like you had a lot of failures as you were making your name.
[00:16:53]  Tons.
[00:16:54]  You did?
[00:16:56]  Daily, daily failure.
[00:16:57]  Oh, yeah.
[00:16:58]  Leigh, fail quick.
[00:16:59]  Let's get it over with.
[00:17:00]  Maybe we'll get it right by the end of the day.
[00:17:02]  How did you do in like the military setting?
[00:17:04]  Because I would think with your background, you weren't exactly big on rules.
[00:17:07]  I don't like rules.
[00:17:09]  Yeah.
[00:17:09]  So how'd you, I mean, that's got to be a problem in basic training.
[00:17:12]  Not really.
[00:17:13]  I mean, it's a game, you know what I mean?
[00:17:14]  And their trash talk was great, man.
[00:17:17]  Basic training.
[00:17:17]  Like you enjoyed that.
[00:17:19]  Oh, God.
[00:17:20]  They would like yell at people.
[00:17:21]  And like, I'd just be, I'd be like, not even getting yelled at.
[00:17:26]  And I'd start laughing and they'd just be like, my drill sergeant called me Maffy.
[00:17:30]  And he'd be like, Maffy, do push-ups.
[00:17:32]  And I'd just start doing push-ups because he'd hear me laughing.
[00:17:35]  Like, oh, man, the trash talk was great.
[00:17:37]  Like, I loved it.
[00:17:38]  You were born for that.
[00:17:39]  Little did they know it was impossible to upset you.
[00:17:42]  Yeah.
[00:17:42]  Well, they couldn't upset me.
[00:17:44]  Yeah.
[00:17:44]  You know what I mean?
[00:17:44]  Yeah.
[00:17:45]  I feel like at this point in life, is it hard to upset you?
[00:17:48]  You've been through so much military-wise and childhood-wise.
[00:17:52]  I mean, you know, like you got to, look, if you want stuff, you got to do it yourself.
[00:17:57]  It's called responsibility.
[00:17:58]  It doesn't matter your age.
[00:18:00]  I call it adulting.
[00:18:01]  I hate it, but I've been doing it for a long time.
[00:18:03]  So if you want something, you got to put in the work.
[00:18:06]  Does anybody irritate you?
[00:18:07]  Like, do you get irritated?
[00:18:09]  Oh, yeah.
[00:18:09]  You do.
[00:18:09]  Yeah.
[00:18:10]  Okay.
[00:18:10]  So you're not beyond that.
[00:18:11]  Everybody.
[00:18:11]  You know what I mean?
[00:18:12]  Like, do you like everybody?
[00:18:13]  No, no, it's such a long list of people I just like.
[00:18:16]  See, there you go.
[00:18:17]  I mean, I cover politics for a living.
[00:18:18]  So it's obvious.
[00:18:19]  Your list is longer than mine.
[00:18:21]  Very long.
[00:18:23]  Okay.
[00:18:23]  So let's go back.
[00:18:24]  So then you meander over to the army.
[00:18:26]  They take you.
[00:18:27]  You're going through basic training.
[00:18:28]  People are getting yelled at and you're enjoying that.
[00:18:30]  And what's the plan?
[00:18:31]  Just like see what they do with you?
[00:18:34]  Well, yeah.
[00:18:35]  Well, I had a ranger contract.
[00:18:36]  So I go through basic training, airborne school, and then I go to RIP.
[00:18:41]  Explain what Ranger is.
[00:18:45]  The Ranger Regiment is its own unit in the Army.
[00:18:51]  They're infantry, basically.
[00:18:54]  And nowadays, they're a tier one unit.
[00:18:57]  Back in my day, they were just like specialized infantry or whatever they called them, right?
[00:19:03]  Uh yeah, the Ranger Regiment is a way of life, uh.
[00:19:07]  And then back in my day was rip is what they called it, and like basic training was a joke.
[00:19:13]  We'd jog in the morning and sing songs.
[00:19:15]  It's like summer camp, you know, in rip, like some random looking dude just takes off faster than you've ever seen another human being running.
[00:19:25]  You're just like holy, like these guys do this, let's go.
[00:19:31]  Yeah, real talk, you know.
[00:19:32]  And then like the whole time, like I mean I didn't know if I was gonna make it or not, I was just doing my best.
[00:19:37]  How long is the training?
[00:19:38]  Uh, it was three weeks back then.
[00:19:40]  Okay, but it's intense.
[00:19:41]  Yeah, back then it was yeah, and back then it was more about creating guys that won't quit than it was like training you at your actual job.
[00:19:50]  Now, from there, you joined special forces.
[00:19:53]  How long yeah, did that take?
[00:19:55]  Uh, I did five years in Ranger Battalion and then, like the, the sergeant major at the time was like sending people to like Korea or some random army shit that I wanted nothing to do with.
[00:20:06]  What did you want?
[00:20:08]  And not that like combat, not that you know what I mean.
[00:20:12]  They never wanted to go to Korea.
[00:20:14]  I heard it's cold and like anyway, never wanted to go there.
[00:20:17]  Sorry, no offense right, where were you in the states here?
[00:20:20]  Uh, I was in Savannah Georgia okay yeah big, see what i'm saying.
[00:20:23]  Yeah, here you go.
[00:20:24]  Yeah so, especially when you grew up in Chicago right yeah yeah, for once.
[00:20:28]  Yes yeah uh, so uh, love Savannah right, and I didn't want to go anywhere.
[00:20:32]  So I figured i'd hit special forces Selection at least.
[00:20:35]  It would like give me a path where I might control my ending.
[00:20:40]  Can you talk about that?
[00:20:41]  Because as a civilian, you hear special forces and you think oh, that's cool, something cool is happening, like he knows, like he's done stuff.
[00:20:48]  Yeah what, what did it mean to you?
[00:20:52]  Oh, I don't know.
[00:20:53]  I mean like, it's okay, I like special forces.
[00:20:55]  Why do it like when you were back a ranger?
[00:20:58]  Yeah, like Allure, I don't know, like the John Wayne when I was a kid right, like badass.
[00:21:04]  Yeah, like Rambo right, like that's what I thought yeah, kind of uh, in the middle 90s, not really what was happening, but uh, later on it got better, more towards a g WAD, everything got better.
[00:21:16]  What do you mean?
[00:21:16]  You thought it would put you in charge of your own.
[00:21:19]  Uh well, if I went to special forces selection.
[00:21:21]  I know I would go there next, versus like coming down on orders for Korea one day.
[00:21:27]  You know what I mean.
[00:21:28]  Just like hey, guess what came?
[00:21:30]  Some paperwork for you Korea, holy shit, no way right yeah, uh.
[00:21:35]  So I wanted to like avoid that.
[00:21:37]  So how do you get into special forces?
[00:21:39]  You gotta go to selection.
[00:21:40]  They got selection like it's like a tryout yeah, tryout.
[00:21:43]  What does what does selection mean?
[00:21:45]  Uh, it's not a lot of stupid, you know what I mean.
[00:21:48]  Like is it one day you show up?
[00:21:50]  Oh no, it's like a run.
[00:21:51]  No okay, special forces selection kind of works like this, it's based off a team and you got to work in a team right, and it's 12 guys in a, in a, a team, a special forces, a team right, uh.
[00:22:05]  And then so you're kind of grouped in 12 guys and then, like you do like random stuff, like you got to build these, they'll give you like one wheel, some pipe and a 500 pound barrel, and it's like it's got, you got to take it 20 miles.
[00:22:20]  That way go, it's very MacGyvery, very MacGyvery, right.
[00:22:24]  And then you have the right background for this too, though.
[00:22:27]  Yeah, but I, you're not in charge every day, and then if someone bad's in charge and they talk about they do stupid shit, you're stuck doing their stupid shit all day long.
[00:22:36]  I was on the worst team ever, I think, in selection.
[00:22:39]  Oh no, some of those guys might be listening to this right now.
[00:22:41]  I don't care, they were pussies.
[00:22:43]  You know what I mean.
[00:22:43]  Like I do not give a shit.
[00:22:46]  You know what I mean.
[00:22:46]  It's probably where that, why they are where they are now.
[00:22:49]  You know what I mean.
[00:22:50]  They were bringing you down, trying to hold me back.
[00:22:53]  So you, you made it, though.
[00:22:54]  You got select.
[00:22:54]  So you get selected to then train into special forces yeah, and then they call that the Q course.
[00:23:00]  And is it?
[00:23:00]  What's that?
[00:23:01]  Like the qualification?
[00:23:02]  Uh, a lot of.
[00:23:04]  I was an engineer, so that's the explosives.
[00:23:06]  But uh, we do a lot of other stuff, like building stuff like, basically you're a general contractor for like houses.
[00:23:13]  They teach you that stuff, and then useful yeah yeah yeah, super useful, right.
[00:23:18]  And then um, explosives and a lot of explosive stuff.
[00:23:22]  What?
[00:23:22]  What's Delta force?
[00:23:24]  And when did you try out for that?
[00:23:26]  So yeah uh, the mid 90s special forces.
[00:23:30]  You know the BILL Clinton ARMY kind of sucked, no ammo, no training, no money, right.
[00:23:35]  So um uh, a buddy of mine, I was at his house uh, I don't know, I was on leave uh, we were drinking, smoking cigars, and he just gave me um uh, a yellow sticky with a time and place.
[00:23:52]  So I was like what's this?
[00:23:53]  And it was like this field on post.
[00:23:55]  So he's like yeah, you're gonna be there at six in the morning.
[00:23:58]  It's like it's like midnight man, no way, I ain't going nowhere.
[00:24:02]  At six in the morning right, I went um and uh, he talked me into going.
[00:24:06]  He was a Mogadishu guy and um, I went and that's it.
[00:24:10]  I passed.
[00:24:11]  Yeah, so that was you in special forces trying to make it on Delta Force, which is yet another sort of next elite level.
[00:24:18]  But in my day you didn't know what Delta Force was like.
[00:24:22]  If someone went there as a black hole, you just never seen them again.
[00:24:25]  You didn't even know they were alive.
[00:24:26]  You know what I mean.
[00:24:27]  So why'd you do it?
[00:24:28]  Why'd you show up at 6 a.m?
[00:24:30]  What else was I gonna do?
[00:24:34]  Sometimes I do my best work hungover.
[00:24:36]  What's up?
[00:24:37]  How was the?
[00:24:38]  How hard was the tryout or the?
[00:24:39]  Uh oh so, first off, it ain't easy, i'm gonna say that, but at the same time.
[00:24:44]  It's great man, they leave you alone.
[00:24:47]  You walk through the mountains like yeah yeah, i'm here, you gotta go, like I don't know.
[00:24:53]  Like you have maps you ever see like the big force i'm already sweating that's, that's making me nervous.
[00:24:57]  I know it's probably the worst thing you want to hear.
[00:24:58]  I would never make it.
[00:24:59]  But like you'd have maps and they're like this big and like the guy would give you a point and you'd be like wait wait, and you're like you got like five of these and you're like I gotta go, like three of these maps today man, you know what I mean.
[00:25:14]  And then yeah, and then you just go, and then this, I mean maybe they knew even before Bin Laden knew where you were going to wind up, but that was perfect training for what ultimately would be asked of you.
[00:25:27]  Yeah, Yeah, 100%.
[00:25:28]  I was ready.
[00:25:28]  Were you in Delta Forest when 9-11 happened?
[00:25:30]  Yeah.
[00:25:31]  Okay.
[00:25:32]  So you're doing your training, what, still down in Savannah?
[00:25:34]  I was at Bragg, Fort Bragg.
[00:25:36]  Okay.
[00:25:36]  And then, well, 9-11, I was trying to skydive to go to Free Fall Jump Master School.
[00:25:44]  Teach people to skydive.
[00:25:45]  Of course you were.
[00:25:46]  That's what I do.
[00:25:47]  So what happened on 9-11?
[00:25:49]  Were you, what was your reaction to that day?
[00:25:51]  Well, the first plane, I was like.
[00:25:53]  Like, it looked like a little plane crashed in, you know?
[00:25:56]  No, we didn't know.
[00:25:57]  Some drunken idiot in his little plane crashed in, right?
[00:26:01]  And then the second was like, oh, shit.
[00:26:03]  And then we were grounded and that was it.
[00:26:05]  You know, then you knew it was like something bad.
[00:26:08]  You knew, but unlike the rest of us, you actually were going to have to answer the call.
[00:26:12]  I mean, does that, is that exciting?
[00:26:15]  Is it nerve-wracking?
[00:26:16]  Is it everything?
[00:26:18]  It's a lot of things, but I would say this is I was too far in not to go.
[00:26:24]  You know what I mean?
[00:26:25]  I was excited.
[00:26:26]  I was nervous.
[00:26:28]  You know, like the whole, I say this all the time.
[00:26:31]  People are going to have a thousands of motions today, right?
[00:26:34]  Like, it's just how people work.
[00:26:35]  You'll have a thousand emotions.
[00:26:37]  Don't let it stop on the bad ones.
[00:26:39]  You know what I mean?
[00:26:40]  I know what you mean, but it's harder to do than actually, you know, it sounds.
[00:26:45]  Maybe.
[00:26:46]  I don't know.
[00:26:46]  You know, people get stuck.
[00:26:47]  They get stuck in sort of obsessive thinking, especially if their life might be on the line.
[00:26:52]  Yeah, people get stuck.
[00:26:53]  So how do you rejigger that?
[00:26:54]  If that's you and you get stuck on something, smack them in the back of the head.
[00:26:58]  Sometimes you need that.
[00:26:59]  You know what I mean?
[00:26:59]  Sometimes I need that.
[00:27:00]  You know what I mean?
[00:27:02]  Snap them out of it.
[00:27:03]  So what was the first word you had that you were getting deployed and to where?
[00:27:08]  Well, there's a lot of things happening between 9-11 and before we deployed.
[00:27:15]  I think the original plan is we were supposed to save some hostages in Kabul.
[00:27:20]  And then we ended up doing the Tora Bora thing.
[00:27:22]  So what we trained for and what happened were completely different animals.
[00:27:27]  You know what I mean?
[00:27:28]  You know why?
[00:27:30]  That's the way the cookie crumbles.
[00:27:32]  You know what I mean?
[00:27:33]  Just follow what they just.
[00:27:34]  Just go.
[00:27:35]  You know what I mean?
[00:27:35]  You're not in charge.
[00:27:36]  Someone else is making the calls.
[00:27:38]  You just got to do your best when the time comes.
[00:27:40]  Was Tora Bora then the first place you went?
[00:27:42]  Yeah, Tora Bora.
[00:27:44]  Wow.
[00:27:44]  Yeah.
[00:27:44]  All right.
[00:27:45]  Tell us about that.
[00:27:46]  Tell us what was that?
[00:27:48]  How did that just describe it?
[00:27:51]  Because I've heard you talk about it in Sean Ryan.
[00:27:52]  It sounds, I mean, like, you were looking for bin Laden.
[00:27:54]  Yeah.
[00:27:55]  So, yeah.
[00:27:56]  We were looking for bin Laden.
[00:27:58]  The Tora Bora was like a stronghold for bin Laden, Al-Qaeda, whatever they would call themselves, right?
[00:28:08]  And the Russians could never get in there, right?
[00:28:11]  And I think somebody, I don't know who said it, but it was 10, it took 10 of us 10 days.
[00:28:18]  To do what?
[00:28:19]  To get everybody out of those mountains.
[00:28:21]  Either kill them or have them come out and surrender.
[00:28:24]  But it took 10 of us 10 days.
[00:28:26]  The Russians never took it.
[00:28:27]  They had 10,000 soldiers, you know.
[00:28:30]  So how do we do that?
[00:28:31]  We bombed the shit out of those guys.
[00:28:33]  You know what I mean?
[00:28:35]  Thanks to all your explosives training?
[00:28:37]  No, it was more like Air Force stuff.
[00:28:40]  You know what I mean?
[00:28:40]  Unfortunately, not my, I mean, if I had to blow them up one at a time, like that would be awesome.
[00:28:46]  But we bombed them.
[00:28:48]  So it was more of an Air Force thing.
[00:28:50]  We had a call on the radio for bombs.
[00:28:52]  Was that deployment, that moment when you showed up in Tora Bora the first time you ever killed a man?
[00:28:59]  Yeah.
[00:28:59]  Yeah.
[00:29:00]  War.
[00:29:00]  Like, let's go.
[00:29:01]  Man, we killed hundreds of people on the first day.
[00:29:04]  Like, I can't tell you how many people died or, you know what I mean?
[00:29:07]  They're just everywhere.
[00:29:08]  Side of the mountains.
[00:29:09]  Like, and then sometimes guys get blowed up.
[00:29:12]  There's only pieces.
[00:29:13]  You know what I mean?
[00:29:13]  And they just be on the side of the mountain.
[00:29:16]  Like, what do you do?
[00:29:18]  Well, how does that, does that affect you at all as a, you know, as a man?
[00:29:21]  Or is it just, no, I'm a soldier?
[00:29:26]  I mean, you know, you come, you, I'll tell you this.
[00:29:30]  You want to come to a gunfight and you end up dead.
[00:29:33]  It's your fault.
[00:29:36]  You know what I mean?
[00:29:36]  They started it.
[00:29:38]  Well, and it's the Delta Force.
[00:29:40]  You're going to die.
[00:29:41]  Like, it's not going to be a good look for you.
[00:29:43]  You know what I mean?
[00:29:44]  So, yeah, I just felt like all those guys needed to die.
[00:29:48]  Like, they're evil.
[00:29:49]  You know what I mean?
[00:29:50]  Like, it's evil to just like, you know, Afghanistan in general, it's like biblical times with trucks and cell phones.
[00:29:59]  Like, they do fucked up shit.
[00:30:02]  You know what I mean?
[00:30:03]  So I don't, there's no doubt in my mind that these guys needed to die.

=== Risky Choices in Afghanistan (15:17) ===

[00:30:08]  You know?
[00:30:09]  Were they connected to bin Laden?
[00:30:11]  Yeah, all his like inner guys, you know what I mean?
[00:30:14]  Yeah.
[00:30:15]  So in 10 days, you managed to route out this mountain area that nobody else had gotten to, the Russians included.
[00:30:22]  And then what?
[00:30:23]  Well, Bin Laden wrote a death letter.
[00:30:26]  He wrote a death letter.
[00:30:28]  It's on the internet, but he wrote a letter.
[00:30:30]  He thought he was going to die.
[00:30:31]  Is this the one where he was, is this a different letter from the one that the morons were circulating on TikTok about a year and a half ago saying, this is amazing.
[00:30:38]  He's so smart.
[00:30:39]  He's got such good reasons for attacking us.
[00:30:42]  That happened.
[00:30:43]  I don't know.
[00:30:43]  Yeah.
[00:30:44]  I don't know.
[00:30:44]  You really wouldn't, you should stay off the internet and you should not know Gen Z.
[00:30:49]  I don't think you'll be happy.
[00:30:50]  I don't do any social media.
[00:30:51]  Well, so what happened?
[00:30:52]  Because you didn't find bin Laden there, but you found all of his henchmen.
[00:30:56]  Yeah.
[00:30:56]  You killed him.
[00:30:57]  Yeah.
[00:30:57]  And then are you like done?
[00:30:58]  Because Bin Laden's still out there.
[00:31:00]  A fucking ceasefire.
[00:31:02]  A fucking ceasefire.
[00:31:03]  And someone called a ceasefire.
[00:31:06]  And I would also say there's a couple helicopters flew over to Battlefield, which I still to this day don't know who they were.
[00:31:13]  Oh, you think he was escaping?
[00:31:16]  I look at it this way.
[00:31:19]  If the first 10 days of the war, 10 guys killed Bin Laden, where's the war on terror at?
[00:31:28]  Oh, this is interesting.
[00:31:30]  The checkbook would have never got open.
[00:31:32]  Oh, that's really interesting.
[00:31:34]  That's what I think.
[00:31:35]  So you're pretty cynical about our military-industrial complex.
[00:31:40]  I wouldn't say cynical.
[00:31:42]  Like, I mean, I enjoyed my time.
[00:31:44]  I love grenades, you know what I mean?
[00:31:47]  But I do think like the rug was pulled out from under us.
[00:31:53]  Well, I mean, it definitely was at the end, but are you talking about right here, right now?
[00:31:56]  When you're trying to find Laden?
[00:31:58]  You don't think that the military brass wanted you to find him?
[00:32:01]  They wanted it to go on and on.
[00:32:02]  No.
[00:32:03]  I think someone else intervened and put him in hiding.
[00:32:07]  Someone who owned helicopters.
[00:32:11]  Regular people own helicopters.
[00:32:13]  Who owns helicopters?
[00:32:16]  You know what I mean?
[00:32:16]  And then how come I've never heard about this anywhere else?
[00:32:20]  I don't know.
[00:32:20]  No one wants to talk about this.
[00:32:22]  I know, right?
[00:32:22]  See what I'm saying?
[00:32:23]  But I mean, are you talking about, like I say, the military industrial complex, like one of these big contractors?
[00:32:28]  Are you talking about us, us-us?
[00:32:31]  I don't know.
[00:32:32]  I mean, you can make your own guesses.
[00:32:33]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:32:35]  But I would say this is like, okay, where's the story between where he lived in Pakistan and Tora Bora?
[00:32:40]  Where's that story also, by the way?
[00:32:42]  I want to know that story.
[00:32:43]  Do we know?
[00:32:45]  I have no idea.
[00:32:45]  Yeah.
[00:32:46]  Have you ever heard anything?
[00:32:47]  No.
[00:32:47]  We need this, like these JFK files.
[00:32:50]  Let's go.
[00:32:50]  You know what I mean?
[00:32:51]  You actually have a shot at it right now with this administration.
[00:32:54]  Well, there you go.
[00:32:54]  You talk, you know, these guys.
[00:32:56]  I got a friend over at the Pentagon.
[00:32:57]  There you go.
[00:32:58]  I mean, we can get to the bottom of that.
[00:33:00]  There you go.
[00:33:01]  Well, that's, I mean, unfortunately, and totally understandably, so many of our veterans are asking these questions now, including Sean.
[00:33:09]  You know, I talked to him at length about his questions about who are the good guys.
[00:33:15]  Oh, we're not.
[00:33:16]  I don't think we are.
[00:33:17]  We don't.
[00:33:17]  I don't think we're good friends.
[00:33:19]  Why?
[00:33:22]  I think we deal on a short timeline, a four-year timeline.
[00:33:27]  And I think everyone else has like been in charge for 50 years.
[00:33:32]  You know what I mean?
[00:33:33]  And they've seen us flip-flop back and forth and we pull, we push, we tug a war with the rope.
[00:33:40]  It never ends out good.
[00:33:41]  We're not good friends.
[00:33:42]  And then as soon as you don't do what we want, we're going to chuck you under the bus and move the fuck on.
[00:33:48]  You know what I mean?
[00:33:48]  Give me an example.
[00:33:51]  I don't know, tons of stuff.
[00:33:53]  You know what I mean?
[00:33:54]  I'm giving you an example right now where these helicopters at.
[00:33:57]  Where's the story of bin Laden to from Abbottabad, where that's where the officers are trained in Pakistan?
[00:34:06]  Interesting.
[00:34:07]  Right.
[00:34:08]  And how did he get out of Afghanistan?
[00:34:11]  He's on dialysis.
[00:34:12]  You mean this guy walked over 14,000 foot mountains in the snow with his little woolen blanket and his dialysis machine, but left all his people behind.
[00:34:25]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:34:26]  Yeah.
[00:34:26]  Like, but I think there's, I think George Bush said dead or alive.
[00:34:33]  And I think the Pentagon was risk adverse.
[00:34:37]  And I think that's where the disconnect was at that time.
[00:34:41]  But I think someone else stepped in and took bin Laden into hiding.
[00:34:45]  And when we found him in 2010, I'm trying to remember my exact time.
[00:34:51]  It was 20, I think, 11.
[00:34:52]  I was on maternity leave with him.
[00:34:53]  It was an election year.
[00:34:55]  So you think that was by design?
[00:34:58]  Yeah.
[00:34:58]  Yeah.
[00:35:00]  He was more useful.
[00:35:02]  He was more useful dead.
[00:35:03]  Obama needed to get re-elected.
[00:35:05]  It's time.
[00:35:06]  And so allowed him to be killed.
[00:35:09]  Yeah.
[00:35:11]  So is that just your gut having been in the army for 20 years?
[00:35:14]  Or hell yeah.
[00:35:17]  I mean, that's like, that's the worst possible like take on our commander in chief and what they might do, like in danger, continue a war where guys are getting killed and their limbs blown off.
[00:35:29]  What to improve your, so you can get the election under your belt.
[00:35:33]  It's just so.
[00:35:34]  It's the way it works.
[00:35:36]  Oh my gosh, it's so horrible to even consider.
[00:35:39]  I mean, it's the way it works.
[00:35:41]  Well, if I had been over there and seen my guys blown up, I think I'd be very angry if I believed this.
[00:35:48]  I'd be very fucking pissed off.
[00:35:50]  Are you angry?
[00:35:52]  I mean, believing this?
[00:35:53]  I mean, being angry wouldn't get me a cup of coffee.
[00:35:56]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:35:57]  I know, but either you feel it or you don't.
[00:36:00]  I look at it this way.
[00:36:03]  I had a great time.
[00:36:04]  I did everything I could.
[00:36:07]  I did as much as I could every time I could.
[00:36:10]  And I always try to do the right thing.
[00:36:13]  At the same time, like I can't control everything.
[00:36:16]  You know what I mean?
[00:36:17]  And then does it make me mad?
[00:36:20]  Sure.
[00:36:21]  Do I hate that like, you know, the politicians disagree on something and it costs your son his life, right?
[00:36:33]  Like ridiculous, right?
[00:36:35]  But at the same time, like I was having the time of my life.
[00:36:38]  So I wasn't questioning shit.
[00:36:40]  You know, anytime you drink from the bottle of hindsight, everything gets clearer.
[00:36:44]  You know what I mean?
[00:36:45]  But at the time, like, I didn't question it.
[00:36:47]  I just want, I was on to the next.
[00:36:49]  Like, war was my life, you know, and I was good at it.
[00:36:53]  And I saved lives.
[00:36:54]  I saved a ton of lives in war.
[00:36:58]  All those things combined kept me back, coming back to it, whether it's right, wrong, indifferent.
[00:37:05]  Like, these are things that I can't control.
[00:37:09]  So why even dwell on it?
[00:37:10]  You know what I mean?
[00:37:11]  It's almost, it's, and then you'll get stuck in there.
[00:37:14]  It's muddy water.
[00:37:15]  You'll get stitched quicksand.
[00:37:16]  You'll sink in it.
[00:37:17]  Like, why this?
[00:37:18]  Why that?
[00:37:19]  Like, why ask why?
[00:37:21]  You haven't been through therapy.
[00:37:22]  This is just your own thinking.
[00:37:26]  I don't go to therapy.
[00:37:27]  No, I don't.
[00:37:27]  Do you know a therapist?
[00:37:29]  I do.
[00:37:29]  I actually know a really good one, but I don't think you need him.
[00:37:31]  I don't think so.
[00:37:32]  You got your head on your shoulders.
[00:37:34]  I try.
[00:37:34]  That's life therapy right there.
[00:37:36]  I don't know.
[00:37:36]  It's somehow you managed to get like a really clear view on all of this.
[00:37:41]  But so many guys I've talked to them come back traumatized.
[00:37:45]  Well, I call it the last chapter.
[00:37:48]  They're stuck in the last chapter.
[00:37:51]  You know what I mean?
[00:37:52]  Like they can't get out of that chapter.
[00:37:54]  And whether, but what really happens is like the story is not over.
[00:37:59]  You know what I mean?
[00:37:59]  I mean, I was under the age of 40 doing all that stuff.
[00:38:03]  Well, I've got a lot more years.
[00:38:05]  Like, so your life never gets better.
[00:38:08]  You're never going to enjoy anything again.
[00:38:10]  Like, get out of that chapter, right?
[00:38:12]  And write a new chapter.
[00:38:14]  Is it the, in part, like the adrenaline rush that you miss?
[00:38:17]  Like it's tough to recreate that in civilian life.
[00:38:20]  Yeah.
[00:38:22]  It's more than the adrenaline rush.
[00:38:25]  You know what I mean?
[00:38:25]  It's so much more.
[00:38:28]  I mean, when you're really good at something, it's all you want to do.
[00:38:32]  And when you know guys are really good at something, I could, you could save lives by sending guys that are really, really good at this.
[00:38:41]  You know what I mean?
[00:38:42]  So I think it's just one of those things where it's, it's a calling and it's not really your choice.
[00:38:50]  You know what I mean?
[00:38:50]  But at the same time, it's a choice you got to make.
[00:38:54]  When were you in Toribora?
[00:38:56]  I don't know, December of 90 or no, 01.
[00:39:01]  And then you went back, right?
[00:39:02]  Yeah, I went back to Tora Bora.
[00:39:04]  Yeah.
[00:39:04]  When did you go back?
[00:39:07]  Just a few months later in 2002, I went back.
[00:39:10]  And was that your like solo?
[00:39:13]  How did you wind up solo in Tora Bora?
[00:39:17]  Pretty easy.
[00:39:18]  I needed Pop-Tarts.
[00:39:20]  Okay, I heard that you mentioned this on Sean Ride.
[00:39:23]  I was getting Pop-Tarts.
[00:39:24]  So I need to clarify this.
[00:39:25]  You wanted the Pop-Tarts and there's something else.
[00:39:28]  What was the other thing?
[00:39:29]  Beef jerky?
[00:39:30]  Beef jerky.
[00:39:30]  Okay.
[00:39:31]  You needed this.
[00:39:32]  So you convinced them to send you on some mission back to like the chow hall to get the stuff.
[00:39:36]  I just told my boss, like, hey, are we doing anything tonight?
[00:39:39]  I'll schedule the helicopter and I'll go to the chow hall.
[00:39:43]  I'll have their guy fill our truck.
[00:39:45]  Okay.
[00:39:45]  Then I got lost.
[00:39:47]  What happened?
[00:39:47]  Like you never went back with the Pop-Tarts and the beef jerky?
[00:39:51]  I did weeks later.
[00:39:52]  But it seemed like you got sucked into this unit that had the good food.
[00:39:55]  Yeah.
[00:39:56]  And then you were off to the races.
[00:39:57]  Well, it was where everyone was.
[00:39:58]  It was where all the guys were.
[00:40:00]  You know, I mean, okay, first off, the DFA.
[00:40:04]  When they deployed, like, they have beef jerky.
[00:40:08]  They have.
[00:40:08]  The DFA?
[00:40:09]  The DFA.
[00:40:10]  What's that?
[00:40:11]  Delta Vorce.
[00:40:12]  Delta Vorce, the D.O. D.O.
[00:40:14]  The Defoe.
[00:40:15]  D.F.A. I'm like, who was he?
[00:40:17]  But anyway, like, you're the highest army unit.
[00:40:20]  You have beef jerky.
[00:40:21]  You have Pop-Tarts.
[00:40:22]  You have, you know what I mean?
[00:40:23]  Like stuff Army guys like might see once a month.
[00:40:27]  We should be getting every day.
[00:40:28]  Yeah, like they're serving cappuccinos.
[00:40:30]  Yeah.
[00:40:30]  And then like the food is really good because we have our own cooks and they care about what you eat.
[00:40:36]  You know what I mean?
[00:40:36]  So it's the army system, but it's within the army system, which makes it a little better.
[00:40:43]  Right.
[00:40:43]  So I was just going to go get some Pop-Tarts and really it's just a resupply run.
[00:40:48]  So I drive my Toyota truck on a helicopter.
[00:40:51]  They fly me to Bagram.
[00:40:52]  And then one of the commanders, the guy that wrote Kill Bin Laden was like, hey, what are you doing?
[00:40:58]  And I'm like, I'm stealing Pop-Tarts.
[00:41:00]  Right.
[00:41:00]  I'm here for food.
[00:41:01]  Yeah.
[00:41:02]  And he was like, you want to go on a mission?
[00:41:04]  And I was like, yeah.
[00:41:06]  I was like, well, you got to call my boss.
[00:41:07]  And he's like, okay, I'll call him.
[00:41:08]  And he did.
[00:41:09]  And then I was like, what is it?
[00:41:11]  You know what I mean?
[00:41:12]  They're like, we want you to go out alone.
[00:41:14]  And I'm like, this sounds risky.
[00:41:15]  Okay.
[00:41:16]  Just happened.
[00:41:17]  Like you were just there getting the Pop-Tarts and they were like, you know, you're, you'd be good for this.
[00:41:21]  Yeah.
[00:41:21]  Wow.
[00:41:22]  And you, this is what kind of you wanted to do anyway, be on your own, make your own decisions.
[00:41:27]  Oh, I didn't know if I wanted to, like never thought about it before then, but it turns out something I do.
[00:41:33]  So what was the mission?
[00:41:34]  Why did you have to go out by yourself?
[00:41:35]  Why couldn't you have?
[00:41:37]  Well, this goes back to the politics of it is the general at the time wouldn't let us to do a to hit a target in Afghanistan.
[00:41:48]  We needed U.S. eyes on.
[00:41:50]  Make sense?
[00:41:52]  So how do you get U.S. eyes on?
[00:41:54]  You have to send out reconnaissance guys.
[00:41:56]  And that's what I did, right?
[00:41:58]  And then, but you can't, no one can leave the wire.
[00:42:03]  What's the wire?
[00:42:04]  The perimeter, the base.
[00:42:06]  You can't.
[00:42:06]  So that's the general's like, no one can leave the base, but you got to launch reconnaissance to get US eyes on.
[00:42:13]  Someone's going to have to leave the base.
[00:42:14]  Someone's going to have to leave the base.
[00:42:16]  And that was you.
[00:42:17]  Was there another guy or is it just me?
[00:42:18]  Well, the only reason they sent me is they kept me in because I was coming from one base to another and outstation to a major base.
[00:42:26]  Yeah.
[00:42:27]  I was in transit.
[00:42:27]  So they just kept me in transit.
[00:42:29]  Don't count weeks.
[00:42:30]  Yeah.
[00:42:30]  You're like, who knows?
[00:42:31]  We have no idea where John is.
[00:42:32]  Basically, they had a lie about what I was doing.
[00:42:36]  To make it.
[00:42:36]  You're really on the search for that beef jerky.
[00:42:38]  Right?
[00:42:38]  Like, you're not giving up.
[00:42:40]  No.
[00:42:41]  The guys back in the original place were probably like, where the hell are the Pop-Tarts?
[00:42:45]  They were in my truck.
[00:42:46]  So, okay.
[00:42:47]  Get them later.
[00:42:48]  So then how long is this solo mission back through Toribora?
[00:42:52]  Probably took me 10 days-ish.
[00:42:54]  Why are you going back there when we already blew up the people?
[00:42:57]  Well, the last guy to supposedly help Bin Laden out of the valley just came back from Pakistan with him and his sons.
[00:43:06]  With bin Laden and his sons or with his own sons?
[00:43:09]  No, his own sons.
[00:43:10]  Like supposedly during the Battle of Tora Bora, because he lived near there.
[00:43:16]  There was, he was the facilitator of getting people in and out of there.
[00:43:20]  Okay.
[00:43:21]  So we wanted to kill him or we wanted to capture him?
[00:43:23]  We wanted to capture him because we thought maybe he brought bin Laden out of there.
[00:43:29]  Okay.
[00:43:30]  So the last lead for Bin Laden was this guy because we have everybody else, all his people, his bodyguard, his cook, his everybody.
[00:43:37]  So do they tell you where you're going?
[00:43:40]  And then it's just up to you to get yourself there?
[00:43:42]  Yeah.
[00:43:43]  Do they show you that spot on the map?
[00:43:45]  And you're like, I got to figure this out.
[00:43:46]  Yeah.
[00:43:47]  Yeah.
[00:43:47]  All right.
[00:43:48]  So they're like, we believe we know where he is.
[00:43:50]  Yeah.
[00:43:50]  Now good luck to you.
[00:43:51]  Yeah.
[00:43:51]  Go find him.
[00:43:53]  I did.
[00:43:54]  How?
[00:43:55]  Pretty simple.
[00:43:56]  Like he's, it's only one valley.
[00:43:58]  Like, and there's only, you know what I mean?
[00:44:00]  There's only, I had already been there.
[00:44:01]  That's one of the things is right.
[00:44:03]  So I kind of knew the area.
[00:44:04]  I knew the terrain.
[00:44:05]  Right.
[00:44:06]  And it's like, there are bad guys trying to kill you everywhere?
[00:44:08]  Everywhere, yeah.
[00:44:10]  So how do you get past them?
[00:44:12]  Bad guys, like in checkpoints?
[00:44:14]  Yeah.
[00:44:15]  You act like a retard.
[00:44:17]  Like an American, though, right?
[00:44:18]  They knew you were an American?
[00:44:19]  No.
[00:44:20]  They thought you were one of them?
[00:44:21]  Yeah.
[00:44:22]  What?
[00:44:22]  Yeah.
[00:44:23]  How's that possible?
[00:44:24]  You're just pasty as I am.
[00:44:25]  I have a big, because of Russians rape people.
[00:44:28]  People look like me in Afghanistan.
[00:44:30]  Lots of them.
[00:44:31]  Oh, wow.
[00:44:32]  I didn't think of that.
[00:44:33]  Yeah.
[00:44:34]  So you would act like a local and like a nutcase and they'd let you walk right by all the time.
[00:44:41]  What would acting like a nutcase look like?
[00:44:43]  Well, so like this guy, the first time happened to me, this guy like jams his AK in my chest.
[00:44:50]  And it's like, like I'm supposed to say something.
[00:44:54]  And I just figured, if I speak American right now, I'm dead.
[00:44:58]  That's it.
[00:44:58]  You know what I mean?
[00:45:00]  So I figured, well, I'll act like a retard.
[00:45:05]  And I figured, okay, how would a retarded guy sound?
[00:45:09]  First off, it'd be volume 11.
[00:45:11]  Yes.
[00:45:11]  Right.
[00:45:12]  So loud, you don't even want to listen.
[00:45:14]  And then it'd be mongoloid stuff.
[00:45:16]  So I was just kind of like, And the guy's like, move along.
[00:45:23]  Yeah.
[00:45:23]  I got the movie.
[00:45:24]  Did you have your AK?
[00:45:25]  Yeah.

=== Acting Like a Retard (03:06) ===

[00:45:26]  Did he know that?
[00:45:27]  Yeah.
[00:45:27]  Oh, so he knew, like, it's not unusual to be armed there, even if you're not.
[00:45:31]  Everybody.
[00:45:31]  Everybody's armed.
[00:45:32]  Okay.
[00:45:32]  Everyone's armed.
[00:45:33]  That's incredible.
[00:45:34]  Yeah.
[00:45:35]  So you find the destination.
[00:45:37]  And did you get eyes on the guy?
[00:45:38]  Yeah, videotaped too.
[00:45:40]  And that was the mission.
[00:45:41]  Not don't take him out.
[00:45:42]  Don't try to kidnap him.
[00:45:43]  Just tell us if he, in fact, is there.
[00:45:46]  So now you got the evidence.
[00:45:48]  Was that a moment like when you saw him?
[00:45:49]  You're like, holy shit.
[00:45:50]  Did you know it was him, first of all?
[00:45:51]  Or were you just could be some rando?
[00:45:54]  Well, when I was, um, I was in a truck with a bunch of people.
[00:45:58]  No one knows I'm American.
[00:46:00]  I had, as we drove by, I put my video camera under my arm and I video camera the house and like dude was on the front porch luckily.
[00:46:11]  So you got a good shot of him?
[00:46:12]  All of it.
[00:46:13]  Yeah, all of it.
[00:46:14]  Got everything I needed.
[00:46:15]  Are you sure?
[00:46:16]  Because I would imagine in the moment, I've been sort of not in this circumstance, but I've not long ago did this undercover video of somebody and I was like, I hope I got the shot.
[00:46:23]  You don't know until you can go check it later.
[00:46:25]  But this is a very important shot to get.
[00:46:27]  Dude was on the porch.
[00:46:28]  It was perfect.
[00:46:29]  You knew you had it.
[00:46:29]  Yeah.
[00:46:30]  Did you recognize him?
[00:46:34]  No, I didn't know.
[00:46:35]  Okay.
[00:46:35]  I didn't know.
[00:46:36]  You found out later that you did, in fact, get the guy.
[00:46:38]  Yeah, correct.
[00:46:39]  So then did we get him?
[00:46:41]  Yeah.
[00:46:41]  Okay.
[00:46:42]  And do you think it was instrumental in getting us to bin Laden?
[00:46:47]  No.
[00:46:48]  It wasn't.
[00:46:49]  It was not.
[00:46:50]  Madam CIA analyst, whose name we still don't know, was not using that particular information and figuring out where Bin Laden was?
[00:46:59]  I don't know what any of that means, but it did not help.
[00:47:03]  He had no idea.
[00:47:04]  Okay.
[00:47:05]  All right.
[00:47:06]  So what does that mean for you?
[00:47:08]  Anything?
[00:47:08]  Does that make you feel disappointed about it?
[00:47:10]  Or like...
[00:47:10]  Well, I always thought, well, I thought at the time, like, A, they were going to find out he was like dead in a cave later.
[00:47:17]  You know what I mean?
[00:47:18]  I just figured, we blew him the smithereens.
[00:47:21]  It might be hard to find the parts.
[00:47:23]  You know what I mean?
[00:47:25]  So, and then I figured one day the truth will come out.
[00:47:27]  I kind of always knew that.
[00:47:29]  So.
[00:47:29]  Well, when you heard about the raid and you saw Barack Obama on television that night, what was your reaction?
[00:47:35]  I thought it was great.
[00:47:37]  You did?
[00:47:37]  Yeah.
[00:47:38]  I thought it was great.
[00:47:38]  I mean, I mean, for whatever reason Obama had, I thought it was great.
[00:47:43]  And then I can tell you this, if I was commander-in-chief, the minute I heard that, I'd be like, go smoke that fool now.
[00:47:51]  You know what I mean?
[00:47:51]  Yep.
[00:47:53]  End of discussion.
[00:47:54]  Since President Trump's election, the eyes of the nation have been on Mar-a-Lago and the free state of Florida.
[00:47:59]  It's a thriving, booming place.
[00:48:01]  South Florida is a special place because of its amazing water for boating, swimming, fishing, and drinking.
[00:48:07]  Today, clean water is endangered by toxic algae.
[00:48:11]  You may have heard of red tide or blue-green algae.
[00:48:15]  It can be dangerous and it can be gross.
[00:48:17]  In his first term, President Trump signed a law to solve this problem with a new reservoir south of Lake Okeechobee to keep clean, fresh water flowing constantly to South Florida.
[00:48:27]  President Trump said, after years of rebuilding other nations, we're finally rebuilding our nation.

=== Dangerous Brotherhoods (16:40) ===

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[00:50:07]  I'm Megan Kelley, host of The Megan Kelley Show on Sirius XM.
[00:50:12]  It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures today.
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[00:51:11]  Rob O'Neill was our first Memorial Day in-depth interview back in when we launched the show.
[00:51:17]  We didn't even have a video yet.
[00:51:19]  It was would have been Memorial Day of 2021, right after the show launched.
[00:51:23]  And that story was just unbelievable just to hear it told firsthand.
[00:51:26]  He's controversial now.
[00:51:28]  Some people don't think he should have said it was him.
[00:51:29]  Blah, blah, blah.
[00:51:30]  What do you think?
[00:51:32]  Seals.
[00:51:32]  You know what I mean?
[00:51:33]  It's always fucking drama with those guys.
[00:51:36]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:51:38]  I adore him.
[00:51:39]  I really admire him so deeply.
[00:51:40]  I, yeah, I'm not buying into any of that drama.
[00:51:43]  All right.
[00:51:44]  So now it wasn't done.
[00:51:46]  Like, you're not done.
[00:51:47]  The war is still going on.
[00:51:48]  And then you wind up going to Iraq.
[00:51:50]  Yeah.
[00:51:51]  And I think that was like the yo, they were gearing up.
[00:51:55]  You know what I mean?
[00:51:56]  We're trying to do this.
[00:51:57]  They're gearing up for Iraq.
[00:51:59]  I mean, that's a nightmare.
[00:52:00]  Like when you look back on that one, what do you think?
[00:52:03]  Iraq.
[00:52:04]  Yeah.
[00:52:04]  I loved Iraq.
[00:52:05]  What?
[00:52:06]  No one says that.
[00:52:07]  Why?
[00:52:08]  I don't know.
[00:52:09]  I mean, you're just an interesting take on it.
[00:52:11]  And I love to hear your take on Saddam Hussein because you were making some good points I hadn't considered.
[00:52:16]  Saddam, man.
[00:52:17]  Like, we should have left him.
[00:52:19]  We should have killed his bastard sons and told him play along or you're next.
[00:52:25]  Yeah, them dudes needed to go.
[00:52:27]  But he was kind of a fan of the Christians.
[00:52:29]  He was.
[00:52:30]  He was.
[00:52:30]  His inner circle was all Christians.
[00:52:34]  The people that touched his food washed his butt, like all Christian, all inner circle.
[00:52:40]  And it's because of the martyr thing.
[00:52:42]  You know, if you're a Muslim, you kill yourself, you're a martyr, you go to heaven.
[00:52:46]  You know what I mean?
[00:52:47]  As a Christian, you kill yourself, you go to hell.
[00:52:49]  So he surrounded himself and put up with the Christians.
[00:52:52]  That's why Iraq was actually pretty Western even back then because he allowed Christians to have their own areas, do their own things, right?
[00:53:02]  And then, you know, ISIS allows none of that.
[00:53:05]  You know what I mean?
[00:53:06]  Yep.
[00:53:06]  And then we had to mess with it.
[00:53:08]  So did you, you did go on a mission where you, you got, you tried to get him.
[00:53:14]  Tell me again what it was.
[00:53:15]  It was like the woman, his affair partner's husband.
[00:53:18]  Yeah.
[00:53:20]  Yeah.
[00:53:21]  We rolled up everybody that met Saddam.
[00:53:24]  You know what I mean?
[00:53:25]  And then we used to say, look, we're in the army, like, you know, in the, you know, our intelligence agencies, they give polygraphs and they determine their rating as sources.
[00:53:35]  And like, they'd be like, this is an unreliable source.
[00:53:39]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:53:39]  And we'd be like, I'm in the army.
[00:53:41]  I'm pulling every thread.
[00:53:43]  Let's go.
[00:53:43]  I don't care.
[00:53:44]  And we go check it out anyway.
[00:53:45]  Most of the time, they were wrong.
[00:53:48]  Yeah.
[00:53:49]  What a shock.
[00:53:49]  Yeah.
[00:53:50]  Go figure.
[00:53:51]  But yeah.
[00:53:53]  Saddam had like a favorite sex lady.
[00:53:57]  I never even heard of this.
[00:53:58]  I heard you say in Sean Ranger because she was not hot.
[00:54:01]  Yeah.
[00:54:01]  Like, like, I don't know what they got going, but like.
[00:54:04]  Who knows what she was doing behind closed doors?
[00:54:06]  Yeah.
[00:54:07]  There's no telling.
[00:54:08]  She must have been a real pro.
[00:54:09]  You know what I mean?
[00:54:09]  That's all I could think.
[00:54:10]  She probably had some moves.
[00:54:11]  She had to know something about something.
[00:54:14]  But like you would think like, I don't know.
[00:54:17]  Like you just assume she would be attractive.
[00:54:20]  I don't know.
[00:54:20]  I didn't know what to say.
[00:54:22]  Everyone pictures the affair partner as somebody who's very hot.
[00:54:24]  The wife, maybe or maybe not.
[00:54:27]  None of that happening here.
[00:54:28]  I mean, maybe he had some hot ones.
[00:54:29]  I didn't see them.
[00:54:30]  She had a different taste.
[00:54:31]  Maybe she had a routine.
[00:54:32]  We have no idea.
[00:54:33]  She obviously had something.
[00:54:35]  Okay.
[00:54:36]  So, but it wasn't her you were looking for.
[00:54:38]  It was her husband.
[00:54:40]  She was married.
[00:54:41]  We were, we couldn't get to her because it's hard to get to women in Iraq.
[00:54:45]  So we had to get to the husband.
[00:54:47]  See what I'm saying?
[00:54:49]  What information could we get from the husband?
[00:54:51]  I don't know.
[00:54:52]  Maybe Saddam kind of, you know, was honeypotted a little bit.
[00:54:56]  He told his favorite honeypot.
[00:54:59]  I don't know, something, you know?
[00:55:00]  And as an army guy, not an Intel guy, I'm like, let's go.
[00:55:05]  Just look into this.
[00:55:06]  I'll do it.
[00:55:06]  Yeah, I don't care.
[00:55:07]  And did we get him?
[00:55:08]  Yeah, we got him.
[00:55:09]  Yeah.
[00:55:09]  Did he know anything?
[00:55:11]  Yeah, they didn't know shit.
[00:55:12]  You know what I mean?
[00:55:13]  Like, they didn't know shit.
[00:55:15]  But we did get him.
[00:55:16]  And yeah, it was, okay, this is kind of legendary, but I was across the street in a minivan and I was kind of watching this shop.
[00:55:28]  I had two Iraqi guys that I would use.
[00:55:33]  And then I had the assault force kind of park on the corner close to the shop.
[00:55:39]  And then enough time went by.
[00:55:42]  We were just waiting and waiting.
[00:55:44]  I told my guys to start fighting in front of the store if too much time went by.
[00:55:49]  So they start a fist fight in front of the store.
[00:55:52]  And then people come out like, what's going on out front of the store?
[00:55:55]  And the dude came out and literally put his back to like the van door of the assault force.
[00:56:01]  And I'm like, yo, open the door.
[00:56:03]  It's that dude right there.
[00:56:05]  And they grabbed him.
[00:56:06]  And then it was over.
[00:56:08]  People were like looking for him.
[00:56:09]  No one even knew he was.
[00:56:11]  Everyone had been watching the fight.
[00:56:13]  Wow.
[00:56:13]  And then later my boss was like, man, we're so lucky that dude started the fight.
[00:56:18]  I was like, that was our guys.
[00:56:20]  What is luck at this point?
[00:56:21]  I was trying to speed this up a little bit.
[00:56:23]  You know what I mean?
[00:56:24]  Yeah.
[00:56:24]  It's hot in the back of the van.
[00:56:25]  So you don't have to do the interrogation or you do?
[00:56:28]  I've done a lot of them.
[00:56:30]  Okay.
[00:56:31]  They don't always send in like the dark arts guys from the CIA to do that crap.
[00:56:34]  Like that's, that's us too.
[00:56:37]  Those guys are chump change.
[00:56:39]  You know what I mean?
[00:56:40]  They're gitmo only.
[00:56:41]  Yeah.
[00:56:42]  Okay.
[00:56:42]  Yeah.
[00:56:43]  So how do you make a guy like that talk?
[00:56:45]  And by the way, easy.
[00:56:47]  How do you communicate with one another?
[00:56:48]  You have a translator there?
[00:56:49]  Yeah, you got to have a turb, people to speak the language.
[00:56:52]  But yeah.
[00:56:52]  What do you mean easy?
[00:56:53]  How is it easy?
[00:56:55]  Everybody talks.
[00:56:56]  They do?
[00:56:56]  Oh, are you kidding?
[00:56:57]  You torture them?
[00:56:58]  What do you do?
[00:56:59]  You don't got to do shit.
[00:57:00]  It's easy.
[00:57:00]  What?
[00:57:01]  Yeah.
[00:57:01]  Fear and common sense is a powerful tool.
[00:57:04]  You know what I mean?
[00:57:05]  Most of the time, like, what?
[00:57:07]  Okay.
[00:57:08]  Think about this.
[00:57:09]  Okay.
[00:57:09]  This is every human being.
[00:57:10]  This is me.
[00:57:11]  This is you.
[00:57:12]  Look, there's stuff that you're going to die with that you ain't telling no one about.
[00:57:17]  Everybody does that.
[00:57:19]  Right?
[00:57:19]  Does that make sense to you?
[00:57:21]  I don't know.
[00:57:21]  I'm kind of an open book, but okay.
[00:57:23]  Yes, I think.
[00:57:23]  I am too.
[00:57:24]  That's totally true.
[00:57:25]  There's secrets people keep to their grave, right?
[00:57:28]  That's basically what I'm saying.
[00:57:29]  Right.
[00:57:30]  And then there's other shit like, what's your cousin's car look like that you just ain't holding?
[00:57:36]  It ain't worth like getting beat over.
[00:57:39]  It ain't worth fighting over.
[00:57:41]  Like it's a little white car.
[00:57:44]  This is a small point of order, but did he know that the wife was having an affair with Saddam Hussein?
[00:57:48]  The entire time.
[00:57:50]  He did.
[00:57:51]  What do you do?
[00:57:51]  Was he was he okay with it?
[00:57:53]  I'm just kind of curious what the sex dynamics are.
[00:57:55]  I would imagine he felt lucky to be alive every day.
[00:57:58]  Right.
[00:57:59]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:57:59]  Yeah, he'd be a very easy guy to get rid of.
[00:58:02]  And then you could have the side piece whenever you wanted it.
[00:58:06]  But I guess he could anyway.
[00:58:07]  So what's the point of killing the husband?
[00:58:09]  I don't know.
[00:58:10]  So he gave up whatever info.
[00:58:12]  And did we find Saddam Hussein after that?
[00:58:15]  Shortly after that.
[00:58:16]  Yeah, we were, look, we had to run all the, look, manhunting is like a sweater.
[00:58:22]  When like you have a yarn on a sweater, you pull it, right?
[00:58:25]  One of those threads is going to, the arm's going to come off.
[00:58:28]  One of those threads, you pull it out forever.
[00:58:30]  It doesn't do nothing.
[00:58:31]  You know what I mean?
[00:58:32]  So we had to pull every thread.
[00:58:34]  This is the process.
[00:58:35]  Yeah.
[00:58:36]  So when you, was that the biggest thing that you did while you were in Iraq, would you say?
[00:58:40]  Like the most serious thing?
[00:58:42]  No.
[00:58:42]  No.
[00:58:43]  What else did you do?
[00:58:43]  Zarkawi was serious days.
[00:58:45]  Oh my God.
[00:58:46]  That was dark.
[00:58:47]  That was the dark stuff.
[00:58:48]  You were over there with all the beheadings and all that.
[00:58:51]  Oh, my God.
[00:58:52]  I mean, does that scare you?
[00:58:53]  You're only a man.
[00:58:54]  You're a man.
[00:58:56]  I mean, I don't know.
[00:58:57]  I wasn't really scared, but I did get a sword off a Zarkawi truck that was like a Roman short sword.
[00:59:04]  And like, there's pictures of me.
[00:59:05]  I got my shirt off.
[00:59:06]  I'm like, I don't know if you ever seen those, but I wanted to, I would have cut one of their heads off.
[00:59:12]  You know what I mean?
[00:59:13]  Like, but no, it didn't scare me.
[00:59:16]  You know, Zarkawi was a bully and he liked to pick on the weak.
[00:59:21]  He didn't want to pick on us.
[00:59:23]  You know what I mean?
[00:59:24]  And then, you know, yeah, the Zarkawi days were great.
[00:59:28]  Foreign fighters was great.
[00:59:30]  I mean, I don't know.
[00:59:31]  I loved it all, but like the foreign fighters, like you just show up in front of the house, have my guy get on the bullhorn.
[00:59:38]  They'd start shooting.
[00:59:39]  We'd level the house, you know, like those days were great.
[00:59:42]  I mean, I think those days were great because that's when the military finally let us take the gloves off and be like, okay, you guys do this your way.
[00:59:53]  You know what I mean?
[00:59:54]  What year is this now?
[00:59:55]  06, 7?
[00:59:56]  Yeah, Zarkowi was six.
[00:59:58]  You know what I mean?
[00:59:59]  But they'd finally start to let the gloves come off, you know?
[01:00:03]  Like, I think we were, we were throttled a lot through a lot of stuff.
[01:00:08]  But I feel like through the Zarkawi days, no one gave a shit how we were getting it done.
[01:00:13]  You know what I mean?
[01:00:15]  So how long were you over there?
[01:00:16]  Or how many deployments do you have?
[01:00:17]  I think I got 10.
[01:00:19]  And then like, I got a bunch of like the surge and the stay lates and shit.
[01:00:23]  You went back and back?
[01:00:24]  Yeah.
[01:00:25]  10 deployments?
[01:00:26]  Yeah.
[01:00:26]  And then as a SARM major, I spent a lot of time there, but it didn't really count as a deployment.
[01:00:32]  I was back and forth.
[01:00:33]  Oh, wow.
[01:00:34]  So then what?
[01:00:35]  Like, how does it end for you?
[01:00:40]  Like they don't know.
[01:00:40]  Do they just send you back home before the fight is done?
[01:00:42]  Or did you fight all the way to the end of the No, I was a SAR major.
[01:00:46]  I retired in 11.
[01:00:47]  You're getting older.
[01:00:48]  Yeah.
[01:00:48]  They don't let you serve forever, really, right?
[01:00:50]  Oh, man.
[01:00:51]  You're only young so long, you know?
[01:00:53]  But I'll tell you what, with stem cells and shit, I could have stayed another 10 years if modern science was hitting me.
[01:00:59]  It's so interesting to talk to you and hear you talk about how fun it was because it seems like the hell of war and the trauma that guys have, the PTSD.
[01:01:08]  But there's something about like, what is it?
[01:01:10]  Is it working with your comrades in arms?
[01:01:12]  Is it like doing the thing that you've been told to do and you're really good at it?
[01:01:15]  You love that?
[01:01:16]  Is it all like, what is that?
[01:01:17]  What is fun?
[01:01:20]  I mean, why be ashamed of trying your best, no matter what that is, I think.
[01:01:30]  Right.
[01:01:32]  And I think that's really what it boils down to.
[01:01:34]  I mean, yeah, I could be ashamed.
[01:01:36]  Did a lot of people die?
[01:01:37]  Yeah, a lot of people died.
[01:01:38]  Did there be ashamed?
[01:01:39]  Some of the wrong people die?
[01:01:41]  Sure.
[01:01:41]  You know what I mean?
[01:01:42]  Did innocent people die?
[01:01:43]  Sure.
[01:01:43]  But like, this is war.
[01:01:45]  And essentially war is you kill the bad guy and break his shit so he can't use that shit against you.
[01:01:51]  If I was told to go do that, why am I the bad guy in this?
[01:01:55]  I'm not.
[01:01:56]  You know what I mean?
[01:01:56]  I'm just doing my best on a daily basis, you know?
[01:01:59]  And then at the end of the day, I always seen it as I'm in the army.
[01:02:03]  I take orders.
[01:02:04]  Let's go.
[01:02:04]  And a lot of times I like those orders.
[01:02:06]  You know what I mean?
[01:02:07]  What was the, what was the brotherhood dynamic?
[01:02:11]  Oh, man, you would think, it's kind of interesting.
[01:02:15]  You would think the brotherhood would have been strong, but like the war like builds bonds.
[01:02:23]  You can't, you can't get anywhere else, I guess.
[01:02:27]  You know what I mean?
[01:02:28]  Like, you'd think like there's always a brotherhood, right?
[01:02:32]  Well, we talk about the brotherhood, but we just joked about seal drama.
[01:02:35]  You know what I'm saying?
[01:02:37]  So having said that, I think there's like guys that I'm like, I was in combat with that we have a bond.
[01:02:46]  I think there's certain people I have bonds with over different stuff, but I think that bond, the brotherhood is, is just, you know, the experiencing the best and worst of humanity at the same time.
[01:03:01]  And when your life is on the lines, just adds, I don't know, so much more to it.
[01:03:05]  I would think.
[01:03:06]  Like you're risking it all together.
[01:03:08]  And any one of you might not be there the next night.
[01:03:12]  Yeah.
[01:03:12]  I mean, I always say, like, I always say, well, I said this to my guys too, but I, oh, we all gave Uncle Sam a blank check.
[01:03:21]  Get ready.
[01:03:21]  Don't be mad if it gets cash, but don't be mad for somebody when their check is cash because they died doing what they loved.
[01:03:29]  Can't be mad at that either.
[01:03:31]  Were there any women in your unit?
[01:03:36]  Maybe.
[01:03:37]  You're not allowed to tell me?
[01:03:38]  I don't know.
[01:03:39]  Can women be rangers?
[01:03:41]  I don't know.
[01:03:42]  That's a good question.
[01:03:43]  I think so these days.
[01:03:44]  I don't know.
[01:03:45]  Like, I don't know how it works.
[01:03:47]  Did you ever have to deal with that dynamic out in the field?
[01:03:50]  Like men and women serving together?
[01:03:52]  Yeah.
[01:03:52]  Just seems so weird to me.
[01:03:53]  I don't know.
[01:03:54]  I know nothing.
[01:03:55]  I think women have very niche roles and can have very niche roles.
[01:04:04]  I've worked with women.
[01:04:05]  I've had women partners.
[01:04:07]  They were great.
[01:04:09]  But I think there's a role for them and they're not like the one you send, you know, get Zarkawi, right?
[01:04:17]  There's other stuff they do.
[01:04:18]  So yes, we have women, always have women.
[01:04:23]  Yeah.
[01:04:23]  I mean, I think there's more women on the planet than men.
[01:04:26]  I don't know why that shows.
[01:04:27]  Well, I'm just, I'm curious about, I'm back to your dating life now.
[01:04:30]  Like, can you meet a woman somehow?
[01:04:33]  Or you're like, how do you fall in love?
[01:04:34]  How do you like...
[01:04:35]  Man, I'll tell you this is I started out married at 9, 11.
[01:04:39]  I've been divorced several times.
[01:04:41]  It's a hard life.
[01:04:42]  You know, I don't think, I think it's a hard life because no one understands like your level of commitment.
[01:04:51]  And I, I say that in a way, like you're choosing something that might cause your death over and over.
[01:05:00]  People don't see that as rational, but they don't understand.
[01:05:04]  You know what I mean?
[01:05:05]  But so I would say, I always say this is like being married was like being in prison.
[01:05:11]  You could call home.

=== Dating Life After Trauma (12:06) ===

[01:05:12]  You ain't going there anytime soon.
[01:05:14]  You know what I mean?
[01:05:15]  This is how it works.
[01:05:16]  What do you mean?
[01:05:17]  I don't think I get it.
[01:05:18]  I get it.
[01:05:19]  That's how marriage works in the army.
[01:05:21]  Like when you deploy to war, you could call home.
[01:05:24]  You get your one phone call.
[01:05:25]  Come home.
[01:05:26]  Yes.
[01:05:26]  Yeah.
[01:05:26]  Call home like once a week.
[01:05:27]  They're not going to be together a whole lot.
[01:05:29]  Yeah, but you ain't going, you ain't going home.
[01:05:31]  Yeah.
[01:05:31]  You know what I mean?
[01:05:32]  And that's tough on anybody.
[01:05:33]  I would say this.
[01:05:36]  Only guys that had perfect relationships, their marriages survived the war.
[01:05:41]  Wow.
[01:05:42]  You know what I mean?
[01:05:42]  And I'd say the bulk of guys end up divorced.
[01:05:44]  Do you have kids?
[01:05:46]  I do.
[01:05:46]  How old are they?
[01:05:48]  I stopped keeping track when they turned over 21.
[01:05:51]  Okay.
[01:05:52]  How many kids do you have?
[01:05:54]  I have two.
[01:05:54]  Okay.
[01:05:54]  Yeah.
[01:05:55]  Are they good?
[01:05:56]  Yeah, they're good.
[01:05:57]  They're good people.
[01:05:59]  Are they going into the military into the military?
[01:06:01]  My son was in the army and works for the army now.
[01:06:04]  Okay.
[01:06:05]  So when it all winds, when it ends, you know, Iraq eventually ends.
[01:06:09]  Afghanistan ended disastrously and recently.
[01:06:12]  Yeah.
[01:06:14]  Is that a moment for reflection on what it meant, what role you played, whether it was worth it?
[01:06:19]  Like, or no?
[01:06:20]  Is it just, I'm a soldier.
[01:06:21]  I did my job.
[01:06:21]  Next chapter.
[01:06:22]  Well, it wasn't worth it.
[01:06:24]  I mean, everyone can see that, right?
[01:06:25]  It's not just me.
[01:06:26]  I don't think it was worth it at all.
[01:06:27]  I had a great time.
[01:06:30]  I would say none of it was really worth it in a strategic sense, in a tactical sense.
[01:06:37]  You know what I mean?
[01:06:37]  Like, honestly.
[01:06:38]  But the reality is, is like, oh man, I had the time of my life.
[01:06:43]  And I would want anyone to know, like, people, people like to thank me for my service.
[01:06:50]  And it's like, I did whatever the fuck I wanted.
[01:06:52]  I don't actually need any thanks.
[01:06:54]  You know what I mean?
[01:06:54]  Like a kid who was like a cook getting mortared in fucking wherever in Iraq nightly, that kid needs to be thanked.
[01:07:02]  Like I was just, I was just doing what I do.
[01:07:07]  Well, how do you reconcile it with stories like, you know, Marcus Lattrell and what happened to him?
[01:07:12]  And he's definitely got some lasting PTSD from that.
[01:07:15]  It's been a rough ride back home.
[01:07:19]  Yeah, I don't even get that.
[01:07:20]  I was out alone all the time.
[01:07:22]  Like I was out alone in Afghanistan.
[01:07:24]  I don't get how being the lone survivor.
[01:07:27]  I just don't understand that story only because I was out alone all the time.
[01:07:31]  It didn't happen to me.
[01:07:33]  You know what I mean?
[01:07:33]  Because of the decisions I make on the ground.
[01:07:36]  Well, you're not blaming him.
[01:07:37]  I'm not blaming him.
[01:07:39]  I'm just saying it's so, that's so foreign to me.
[01:07:41]  I don't even understand it.
[01:07:43]  Because I can tell you this, the Taliban could come after me.
[01:07:47]  There'd be a whole lot of dead bodies for sure.
[01:07:51]  And I'm just one person.
[01:07:52]  I believe that.
[01:07:53]  Imagine if there was two or three of me.
[01:07:56]  I mean, that's one of the worst stories of the war.
[01:07:58]  And what he went through is just awful.
[01:08:01]  And it's not just him.
[01:08:02]  You know, I, was it last year?
[01:08:04]  No, it was two years ago.
[01:08:05]  We talked to Dakota Meyer.
[01:08:07]  He's doing great now.
[01:08:09]  But, you know, he came back, he won the, was awarded the Medal of Honor and wanted to kill himself.
[01:08:14]  Like he, there are tough, tough guys.
[01:08:18]  These are not weak men who they don't process it the way you do.
[01:08:24]  I think if you could somehow teach this, it would be extremely valuable, right?
[01:08:28]  I could teach anybody this.
[01:08:30]  I feel like anybody could use this.
[01:08:32]  People who have different traumas.
[01:08:34]  Start by me locking you in a room and beating you first.
[01:08:37]  Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.
[01:08:39]  I know exactly I.
[01:08:41]  I might sign up for that, and then people would don't touch the money maker.
[01:08:44]  No, of course, of course.
[01:08:46]  No bruises, no marks.
[01:08:47]  I'm a pro, like I. I've done a bunch of interrogations.
[01:08:50]  No, but I got this.
[01:08:51]  I mean like, is there some sort of toughen you up, john camp?
[01:08:56]  No, there isn't.
[01:08:57]  I mean the shirt.
[01:08:58]  No, what does it mean?
[01:08:58]  Team SOB?
[01:09:00]  Yeah, I called you tough sob, same thing.
[01:09:03]  So this is not something I can sign up for or I can go learn.
[01:09:07]  This is like this.
[01:09:07]  Oh, that's too bad.
[01:09:08]  I mean, this is you're missing an opportunity.
[01:09:10]  Leadership, right?
[01:09:12]  Leadership.
[01:09:12]  Can it be taught?
[01:09:14]  I think so.
[01:09:15]  I think so.
[01:09:16]  Like, most of my guys, if my guys killed somebody, I brought them all in a room.
[01:09:22]  I made everyone have a drink.
[01:09:24]  I made sure I told them they did exactly right.
[01:09:26]  You know, this was expected of them, right?
[01:09:28]  Like, this is your job.
[01:09:30]  Like someone should thank you.
[01:09:33]  And I think if all that happens on the spot, you're less likely to carry the guilt with you later.
[01:09:38]  So I believe a lot of this is framed up poorly a long time ago.
[01:09:45]  Yeah.
[01:09:45]  And then I believe guys ride the hall past for a long time.
[01:09:49]  And I call the hall past booze, but some people do drugs.
[01:09:53]  Some people do, I don't know what people do, but for me, my hall pass was booze.
[01:09:59]  You know what I mean?
[01:09:59]  And then still drink or no?
[01:10:01]  No more?
[01:10:02]  Well, I'm training for worlds right now.
[01:10:04]  So I am currently not drinking.
[01:10:06]  Worlds in what?
[01:10:07]  Jiu-Jitsu.
[01:10:08]  Oh, wow.
[01:10:09]  All you ex-military guys do jiu-jitsu.
[01:10:12]  Why is that?
[01:10:14]  I don't know.
[01:10:15]  Jiu-Jitsu, it's an hour of my day where I don't have to look at the phone.
[01:10:20]  It's sometimes there's minutes where someone's actually like choking the living shit out of me.
[01:10:26]  Oh, I hear.
[01:10:27]  And the stubborn side of me is like, I'm not giving it to them.
[01:10:30]  You know what I mean?
[01:10:31]  Isn't it involuntary?
[01:10:32]  No.
[01:10:33]  What?
[01:10:33]  Well, no.
[01:10:34]  When they choke you out?
[01:10:35]  No.
[01:10:35]  Yeah.
[01:10:36]  No.
[01:10:36]  It's not involuntary?
[01:10:37]  Uh-uh.
[01:10:38]  Okay.
[01:10:39]  I got to learn those moves.
[01:10:40]  If you make me give it to you, I'll give it to you.
[01:10:42]  Otherwise, you could choke the shit out of me and I'll just ride it.
[01:10:45]  You know what I mean?
[01:10:46]  But when I'm in real survival mode, someone puts me in trouble.
[01:10:50]  I got to think about what's next.
[01:10:52]  My leverage, my everything, control my breathing, my heart rate.
[01:10:57]  I call that real survival mode.
[01:10:59]  Like, that's, I'm, I'm so thankful for that.
[01:11:02]  It's a, it's a clarity of some type of envious of it.
[01:11:06]  Yes, I hear it.
[01:11:07]  So it's like, you know how like people talk about runners high.
[01:11:10]  Like, you know, I do cardio.
[01:11:12]  It doesn't make me high ever.
[01:11:14]  I've always hated it, but like jujitsu is, I don't know, sometimes when I'm in real survival, I don't got to think about my phone.
[01:11:21]  I don't got to think about my life.
[01:11:22]  Are you always going against somebody who knows what they're doing?
[01:11:25]  Is it usually an instructor or another like participant in class or because I travel?
[01:11:31]  I hit, I think, 28, 30 different dojos a year.
[01:11:35]  I just walk in and do you worry about like outmatching somebody to the point where you're going to hurt them and get sued or cause permanent damage.
[01:11:44]  No.
[01:11:45]  I'm a recovering lawyer.
[01:11:46]  This is how I think about these things.
[01:11:47]  Oh, no, no.
[01:11:49]  It's jiu-jitsu.
[01:11:50]  Like, look, this is unarmed.
[01:11:51]  Is there hurting somebody?
[01:11:52]  There's not.
[01:11:52]  There's hurting somebody.
[01:11:53]  I'm not going to.
[01:11:54]  Well, yeah, but you stop.
[01:11:55]  Is it like...
[01:11:56]  Yeah, as you get better at it, right?
[01:11:58]  Like, this is the point of submission.
[01:12:00]  If you thought I was going to hurt you, you could tap.
[01:12:03]  Okay.
[01:12:04]  So that's your escape button.
[01:12:06]  That's like the safe gesture.
[01:12:10]  Don't hurt me anymore, please.
[01:12:12]  I've had enough.
[01:12:13]  Yeah, you just tap.
[01:12:14]  So what are you doing now?
[01:12:15]  I'm training for worlds.
[01:12:16]  Come waiting for me.
[01:12:17]  What are we doing for money?
[01:12:18]  Oh, I teach people to shoot.
[01:12:20]  Yeah, okay.
[01:12:21]  Oh, yeah, because you're a sniper.
[01:12:23]  I was.
[01:12:24]  We didn't even go over that.
[01:12:25]  No, no.
[01:12:26]  No.
[01:12:26]  Yeah.
[01:12:27]  Yeah.
[01:12:28]  How many guns do you own?
[01:12:31]  Seriously?
[01:12:32]  I couldn't count.
[01:12:33]  more or less than jd vance's mamma had in her house when she i don't even know how many that is i think it was 19.
[01:12:39]  oh yeah uh i don't want to admit to anything you know what i mean where are you living uh i live in raleigh north carolina no where specifically give us the street at it no i'm only kidding i'm only kidding so you settled in the warmth uh well i live near fort bragg still okay you know what i mean and you you work with them and do you do anything i don't do anything at fort brag i try not to What do you do for fun?
[01:13:03]  Like, how do you let your hair down?
[01:13:04]  I do jiu-jitsu.
[01:13:07]  I off-road with my buddies.
[01:13:09]  I got one of them side-by-side off-road vehicles.
[01:13:12]  Yeah, I do that.
[01:13:13]  Does a guy who goes in the side one put on a little white scarf and a little leather helmet?
[01:13:18]  He'll get it muddy.
[01:13:19]  You know what I mean?
[01:13:20]  I wouldn't bring light on these trips.
[01:13:23]  But yeah, we normally off-road in the Arizona mountains yearly.
[01:13:27]  Yeah, we go to this place, Crown King, oldest bar.
[01:13:30]  There's no dirt.
[01:13:31]  It's all dirt roads, no pavement.
[01:13:33]  Stay up there in cabins.
[01:13:35]  And it's kind of like, I don't know.
[01:13:37]  We off-road, we drive.
[01:13:39]  I eat cheeseburgers and I drink whiskey.
[01:13:43]  Sounds right on brands.
[01:13:44]  I do that all weekend.
[01:13:46]  I don't shower either.
[01:13:47]  I don't even care.
[01:13:48]  Ever?
[01:13:50]  Let's go.
[01:13:50]  We're four-wheeling.
[01:13:52]  So you shower, just not on this particular trip.
[01:13:54]  Yeah.
[01:13:54]  But I four-wheel.
[01:13:56]  Oh, man.
[01:13:58]  And then I just, I love teaching people to shoot.
[01:14:01]  It's kind of like the thing I'm really good at.
[01:14:04]  Wow.
[01:14:04]  Yeah.
[01:14:05]  What do you think?
[01:14:06]  I know you're not, you don't really watch the news.
[01:14:09]  Do you follow politics at all?
[01:14:10]  Like, what do you think of Trump?
[01:14:11]  What do you think of Pete Fixeth as the top guy at Pentagon?
[01:14:14]  Yeah.
[01:14:14]  Well, first off, talk to Pete.
[01:14:16]  I need one of these Pentagon jobs.
[01:14:18]  Tell me I shouldn't be the deputy of special operations.
[01:14:22]  Is that what you would like?
[01:14:23]  Hell yeah.
[01:14:24]  Let's go.
[01:14:24]  I'll make a call.
[01:14:26]  Oh, man.
[01:14:27]  But look, I like Trump.
[01:14:29]  I like Vance.
[01:14:30]  I like Pete.
[01:14:34]  I like what they're doing.
[01:14:38]  And like, what can I say?
[01:14:39]  Like, I think they make good inherent decisions, like for long term, which we're not really used to here.
[01:14:46]  You know what I mean?
[01:14:47]  But I think they're all good.
[01:14:48]  I don't watch the news or nothing, but I think they're good so far.
[01:14:51]  I think I thought Trump made great policies last time.
[01:14:55]  You know what I mean?
[01:14:56]  What have you seen enough of Pete to know what you like about him?
[01:15:00]  Oh, man, I got a ton of buddies that know Pete.
[01:15:03]  Like everybody loves Pete.
[01:15:04]  You know what I mean?
[01:15:05]  Like, that's all I needed to hear.
[01:15:07]  And, you know, like the look, the Pentagon.
[01:15:11]  We ain't won a war lately.
[01:15:14]  And, you know, these generals will be like, oh, well, he was just lower enlisted saying that.
[01:15:19]  But like, yo, I watched you guys every day make fucked up decisions.
[01:15:23]  I'd try to tell you and you'd be mad at me.
[01:15:25]  You know what I mean?
[01:15:26]  Like, not that I was always right, but like sometimes you're wrong also.
[01:15:32]  And it's the, I think it's the hubris of the Pentagon that needs to be taken down a few notches.
[01:15:36]  You know what I mean?
[01:15:37]  Yeah.
[01:15:38]  And like, anyway, yeah.
[01:15:41]  So I would happily serve this country and make everything better.
[01:15:45]  You know what I mean?
[01:15:46]  That's awesome.
[01:15:48]  We need guys like you raising your hands.
[01:15:49]  Thanks.
[01:15:50]  Well, I love that you came in to tell us your story.
[01:15:53]  You're such an interesting man.
[01:15:55]  I love you.
[01:15:55]  I love everything about you.
[01:15:56]  What a character you are.
[01:15:58]  Thank you.
[01:15:58]  I hope we can find a way to get you back.
[01:16:00]  Let's go.
[01:16:01]  Let's go.
[01:16:02]  Let's call Pete.
[01:16:02]  Pete, where are you at?
[01:16:04]  Let's call DJ T and see if he's got something for us.
[01:16:06]  Call him right now.
[01:16:07]  Get him on the line.
[01:16:08]  I'm in.
[01:16:10]  Whether you want to hear or not, thank you for your service.
[01:16:12]  You're welcome.
[01:16:13]  It's a pleasure to meet you.
[01:16:14]  Thank you.
[01:16:14]  Yeah.
[01:16:15]  All the best to you.
[01:16:18]  Didn't I tell you he's unbelievable?
[01:16:20]  What a guy.
[01:16:21]  John McVeigh.
[01:16:22]  Thank you once again.
[01:16:23]  You know, it's just incredible the stuff that our troops go through and the different mindsets that they develop along the way, right?
[01:16:28]  It's our honor to talk to him.
[01:16:30]  It's our honor to talk to all of our troops who have served in battle.
[01:16:34]  And if you're into what you heard today, you should go back and listen to the earlier Memorial Day shows that we've done since we launched.
[01:16:40]  The first one was in 2021, and that was Rob O'Neill.
[01:16:43]  We've done Marcus Luttrell.
[01:16:46]  We've done Dakota Meyer, recipient of the Medal of Honor.
[01:16:49]  It's just these guys are, they're living life around us.
[01:16:53]  They're kind of back to normal to the extent one can be with having these incredible backgrounds.
[01:16:58]  So it's... well worth our time to take a moment to learn from them and remember what they and our other troops have done for us while we've been sitting at home in our air conditioning, right?
[01:17:07]  So that's what today is all about, especially honoring the fallen.
[01:17:10]  We do that here.
[01:17:11]  Thank them and their families for their service.
[01:17:14]  In the meantime, I hope you have a great day with your families.
[01:17:16]  I hope you have some time off.
[01:17:18]  You can think about what matters.

=== The Seed Oil Problem (02:06) ===

[01:17:19]  And I hope you'll tune in tomorrow when we have a live show and a special Kelly's court.
[01:17:25]  Everybody loves Kelly's court and we are bringing it to you tomorrow.
[01:17:29]  So don't miss that.
[01:17:30]  We'll see you soon.
[01:17:34]  Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly Show.
[01:17:36]  No BS, no agenda, and no fear.
[01:17:46]  Did you know that chips and fries used to be cooked in tallow up until the 1990s when big corporations switched to cheap processed gross seed oils?
[01:17:56]  But today, seed oils make up 20% of the average American's daily calories.
[01:18:00]  And some studies have linked seed oils to metabolic health issues and inflammation in the body.
[01:18:06]  We had a couple of experts on this show a couple years ago telling us about how seed oils can help create bad fat on your body that is a lot harder to lose.
[01:18:16]  FYI, check it out.
[01:18:18]  Anyway, this company, MASA, decided to do something about it.
[01:18:22]  They created a tasty and delicious tortilla chip with just three ingredients and no seed oils.
[01:18:29]  Organic corn, sea salt, and 100% grass-fed beef tallow.
[01:18:36]  We need this product.
[01:18:37]  These chips don't just avoid all the bad stuff.
[01:18:40]  They taste incredible too.
[01:18:42]  This is not that hard to do.
[01:18:43]  More companies need to do this.
[01:18:44]  We don't need all that crap in our food.
[01:18:47]  Masa is crunchier, it's tastier, and it's sturdier than other chips.
[01:18:51]  And an added bonus, the beef tallow makes the chips much more satiating.
[01:18:56]  So you won't find yourself uncontrollably binging and still feeling hungry immediately thereafter.
[01:19:02]  Masa chips, it's beloved by thousands of customers and it's been endorsed by industry leading health and nutrition experts.
[01:19:10]  You ready to give Masa a try?
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