The Megyn Kelly Show - 20220418_patriotism-perseverance-and-beating-the-russians-w
Aired: 2022-04-18
Duration: 01:36:02


=== Growing Up in That House (14:32) ===

[00:00:50]  Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.
[00:01:12]  And you probably do too.
[00:01:13]  He's an American icon, a hero, Mike Aruzzioni.
[00:01:18]  Mike was captain of the 1980 Team USA hockey team that beat the Soviets in what is commonly referred to as the miracle on ice.
[00:01:29]  Mike's life is fascinating, and there's a lot for all of us to learn from the way he grew up, scrappy outside of Boston in a home, working-class family with his entire extended family all around him.
[00:01:41]  Unlike the kids of today who are forced into one sport early on and coached and trained and geared to be Olympic athletes from the time they're two, he grew up like a lot of us did, playing a bunch of different sports, learning from a bunch of different coaches, lessons of life and sportsmanship and hard work.
[00:01:59]  And one of those sports was indeed hockey.
[00:02:02]  But he wasn't the best.
[00:02:03]  He wasn't the fastest.
[00:02:04]  He wasn't the greatest.
[00:02:06]  And he didn't know what was going to happen with his hockey future.
[00:02:11]  Then one day, a chance encounter led him to his future in Division I hockey, something that was not secure for him prior to that moment, and eventually to Team USA.
[00:02:21]  The incredible story of how 20 men on Team USA managed to pull off one of the biggest upsets, might have been the biggest, in sports history is inspiring to say the least.
[00:02:32]  Millions of Americans have been touched by this story, including current day, who continue to go back, even if they weren't alive back in 1980 and watch, for example, the 2004 box office hit film Miracle, like we did recently, because we want our kids to know the story and know it as well as we do.
[00:02:50]  It's a story of perseverance and of patriotism.
[00:02:55]  Something we could use more of in today's day and age.
[00:03:02]  Mike Aruzzioni, welcome to the show.
[00:03:05]  Thank you very much.
[00:03:06]  Thank you for all those kind words.
[00:03:08]  Of course, of course.
[00:03:09]  I'm so excited for our conversation and going back and learning more about you from your book, which came out on the, I guess it was the 40th anniversary, right?
[00:03:18]  It was 2020.
[00:03:20]  I learned even more.
[00:03:21]  Yeah, it was interesting.
[00:03:22]  It was exciting.
[00:03:23]  It was fun to do.
[00:03:24]  You know, I never thought in my life I'd ever write a book.
[00:03:26]  And with my friend Neil Baudette, we, you know, we put something together.
[00:03:29]  And, you know, I wrote the book for one reason and one reason only.
[00:03:33]  And I told Harper Collins, I don't care if anybody buys the book, which they didn't like to hear from me, but I want my grandkids to know that Papa's life wasn't one game, one goal, one moment.
[00:03:44]  I wanted my grandkids to know about their great-grandmother and great-grandfather.
[00:03:47]  I want them to know how important our family is and our friendship, how important friends are.
[00:03:53]  I want them to know how I grew up, the life I lived, and the life I had, you know, as a kid.
[00:03:59]  So that's the basis of the book and why I wrote it.
[00:04:01]  Obviously, some stories about the Olympics, but the whole reason was, again, how I grew up and what I was like as a young boy.
[00:04:11]  It's called The Making of a Miracle.
[00:04:13]  It came out in January of 2020.
[00:04:16]  I've made my kids watch the movie and I love the documentary too that I know you consulted on that came years before because I want them to understand what I understand as somebody who's a little younger than you are, but I was around in 1980.
[00:04:29]  I was born in 70, which is there used to be this America that despite the tough times, the down times, political partisanship, we would find our way back to each other.
[00:04:40]  And we rarely spent long periods not in love with our country.
[00:04:45]  Somehow we'd always find a way back to loving our country and being proud to be Americans.
[00:04:51]  And it's been too long of a stretch in my view that we haven't since we felt that.
[00:04:57]  You know, the last time I remember was post 9-11.
[00:05:00]  And now here we are 2022.
[00:05:02]  And that's, that's what's great about your story.
[00:05:04]  And that's why it's important to retell the story, because one of the things the story makes clear is that in the 1970s, there were no picnic for America and we were feeling pretty down back then.
[00:05:13]  And then along came you guys.
[00:05:15]  All right.
[00:05:15]  So that's just the intro.
[00:05:17]  But before we get to the miracle on ice and the moments that you guys brought us, let's go back to little Micah Ruzzioni, growing up outside of Boston and explain to us, because I mentioned you're a working class family.
[00:05:30]  Talk to us about the taxi cab, what was it, an old, like used former taxicab your dad drove and the kind of house you grew up in and the skates you were forced to use when you were thinking about playing hockey.
[00:05:45]  Yeah, it's funny you bring that up because I live actually three houses from the house I grew up in.
[00:05:51]  My cousin bought and built a house on a lot of land next to the house that we grew up in.
[00:05:57]  And we were yelling at him last night how we ruined my kids, my kids' generation because they couldn't play next door like we used to be able to play because he put a house there.
[00:06:07]  But I grew up in a three-family house.
[00:06:10]  I thought everybody lived in a three-family.
[00:06:12]  I didn't know any better.
[00:06:13]  But we lived in the second floor and I have four sisters and a brother.
[00:06:16]  And upstairs was my mother's brother who married my father's sister.
[00:06:22]  And they were five kids in that family.
[00:06:24]  And then the first floor was my father's other sister.
[00:06:26]  And they were three kids in that family.
[00:06:30]  And when my mother was pregnant, my aunts were pregnant.
[00:06:32]  And we all grew up in that house.
[00:06:33]  We all grew up in that working class environment.
[00:06:35]  My mother stayed home, took care of six kids.
[00:06:37]  My dad worked three jobs.
[00:06:40]  We understood the importance of family.
[00:06:42]  We understood the importance of work to make it, as my mother used to say, I'll find ways to make ends meet.
[00:06:49]  We didn't have television in my house till I was 12, but my uncle had one.
[00:06:52]  So I'd go upstairs and watch TV or I'd go downstairs and watch TV.
[00:06:56]  Or I didn't like what my mother was making.
[00:06:57]  I'd go upstairs and eat dinner at my aunt's house or have breakfast downstairs at my other aunt's house.
[00:07:02]  And it was basically, I think I said this in the book, three floors with one door.
[00:07:06]  Once you got in the house, you could go wherever you wanted to go.
[00:07:10]  And the funny thing is we all still live, you know, everybody who grew up in that house, almost all of us still live in my hometown of Winthrop, Mass.
[00:07:17]  And we all had kids and my cousins had kids the same time as I was having kids.
[00:07:22]  And we had a run at the high school six years in a row.
[00:07:27]  The outstanding student athlete was somebody who grew up and came out of the three-decker that we lived in.
[00:07:33]  Wow.
[00:07:33]  And I sit in my backyard.
[00:07:36]  Actually, this is kind of crazy.
[00:07:37]  My son just bought the house directly behind me.
[00:07:40]  So there's a gate that goes from his house to his yard to my yard.
[00:07:45]  But I can sit on my porch and look up to my left and see the house that I grew up in.
[00:07:49]  And when my dad was alive, he passed away like six years ago.
[00:07:53]  He would come out on the porch and yell down.
[00:07:55]  It asked me if I was home.
[00:07:57]  He'd go, you home.
[00:07:58]  I'd go, yeah, I'm home, dad.
[00:07:59]  And he'd get in my car and he'd drive around the corner.
[00:08:01]  He'd come in the house and I'd get him a cold beer.
[00:08:04]  It had to be a cold beer.
[00:08:07]  And it was just, you know, just the way we lived.
[00:08:09]  And sports was a big part of it.
[00:08:11]  We competed against each other in the backyard, playing, making up games, playing games.
[00:08:16]  And that's what you did in that era.
[00:08:18]  You know, it's, you know, I feel bad for kids today because I think they would have liked growing up without iPads and without computers and just the simple life that we had and found a way to play.
[00:08:30]  You know, yeah, I hate to be rambling on here, but when was the last time you were driving your car and you pulled over because kids were playing in the street?
[00:08:38]  You know, we used to play football, tag football, telephone pole, but you can telephone pole.
[00:08:42]  I would play street hockey in the street.
[00:08:45]  And you don't see that anymore.
[00:08:47]  It doesn't exist.
[00:08:48]  And that's the way I grew up.
[00:08:50]  And I wouldn't trade that for anything.
[00:08:52]  It's so true.
[00:08:53]  I'll tell you where I live now, you know, we moved from New York City to Connecticut and we chose a house in a neighborhood, you know, not something that has acres and acres of land.
[00:09:03]  We wanted to have neighbors so our kids could play and we'd have friends and so on.
[00:09:08]  And good luck finding a neighbor after school for your kid to play with because the kids today are so overscheduled.
[00:09:15]  You know, every child has got, you know, an after school activity, they're doing Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and then on the weekends, all the games.
[00:09:22]  It's like there's no time for a pickup game of anything.
[00:09:25]  Everyone's got their private coach for this or the private coach for that.
[00:09:30]  It's sad.
[00:09:31]  It's not the way we grew up.
[00:09:33]  No.
[00:09:33]  And, you know, I have, you know, I have six grandkids and actually three of them live in Suthington, Connecticut.
[00:09:37]  And they're actually up here now for the weekend for Easter, but the other three live down the street from me.
[00:09:42]  And yesterday, not yesterday was Easter, but Sunday they had Saturday, they had a soccer game.
[00:09:49]  They had a lacrosse game and then they had a flag football game.
[00:09:52]  And I was like, let them just stay home and play in the backyard.
[00:09:56]  Although they'll be over here in about a half hour, probably playing basketball in my backyard.
[00:10:01]  But yeah, it's not, it's just not the way kids should be.
[00:10:05]  I call them refrigerator kids.
[00:10:07]  You go home and you look on the refrigerator and there's their schedule.
[00:10:09]  Monday, you have this.
[00:10:10]  Tuesday, I have that.
[00:10:11]  Wednesday, I have that.
[00:10:13]  I never had anything other than, you know, go out and play and come home when the street lights come on.
[00:10:18]  Yeah, that's right.
[00:10:19]  Same.
[00:10:20]  It was either go outside or just sit in front of the TV.
[00:10:24]  We don't care.
[00:10:25]  My parents didn't schedule me to do anything.
[00:10:29]  You seem safe.
[00:10:31]  Our goal is to get you to 18 and you'll leave and maybe you'll make some extra dough and we'll get a couple nickels from you.
[00:10:37]  It wasn't like it is now.
[00:10:39]  It's like now, it's like when we have a snowstorm and I've been living in this house I live in now for 35 years.
[00:10:44]  Not once in 35 years has one kid knocked on my door and asked if I could shovel.
[00:10:50]  Can I shovel your sidewalk?
[00:10:51]  Oh, wow.
[00:10:52]  I used to dream of snowstorms.
[00:10:54]  I used to, I'd go house to house and I might make 15 or 20 bucks in one day just shoveling snow, trying to, you know, waiting for that storm to come.
[00:11:02]  Now, I know, I'll even give him my snowball to use, but you don't see that anymore.
[00:11:07]  It's very, it's very different.
[00:11:09]  But, you know, hey, that's the way life is.
[00:11:11]  And you deal with it, I guess.
[00:11:12]  So you were living in the right place, by the way, if you wanted to make your money off of plowing people's driveways because you're right outside of Boston, which is, you know, I grew up from Syracuse and Albany.
[00:11:20]  So I understand living in that kind of a snowy community.
[00:11:23]  That's how you make your dough.
[00:11:24]  There's a sweet story in your book about, I mentioned the taxi cab just so people know what I was talking about.
[00:11:29]  Your car was an old red and white taxi cab.
[00:11:32]  One day you said your dad was driving.
[00:11:33]  The steering wheel came right off.
[00:11:35]  You were going down the road.
[00:11:35]  You looked over at him.
[00:11:36]  He was holding the steering wheel and his hands.
[00:11:38]  It wasn't connected to anything.
[00:11:39]  All right.
[00:11:39]  So you were not a rich guy.
[00:11:41]  You used to wear your sister's, your sister Connie's white figure skates when you started to skate, just like on a golf course sand trap because there was no fair, you know, it wasn't, again, like today where like you pay a membership for some beautiful hockey club.
[00:11:53]  No, you just like you found a little sand trap.
[00:11:56]  You had little blue pompons under toes if you're the Micah Russione of the Miracle on Ice team because you couldn't afford your own skates.
[00:12:03]  But your mom made sure eventually you got your own pair of black hide hockey skates so that you could represent properly.
[00:12:12]  And your uncle's going to come into this story in a second, your uncle Tony, when it comes to snowing, shoveling driveways.
[00:12:17]  So tell us what your mom did for you one day and how she managed it.
[00:12:21]  In those days, you could save SNH green stamps.
[00:12:25]  And, you know, my mother saw it far, saw that this was something I wanted to do.
[00:12:29]  I liked hockey.
[00:12:30]  You know, I didn't know there was no team in my town at that time.
[00:12:34]  I used to skate at the sand trap or down at the tennis courts.
[00:12:36]  They used to freeze the tennis courts.
[00:12:38]  And my mom saved up enough stamps.
[00:12:40]  And I came home one day and there was a pair of hide ice skates on the table.
[00:12:44]  So I thought about that, you know, later in life, obviously.
[00:12:46]  Maybe, maybe I kind of was born to be a player.
[00:12:48]  You know, my mom gave me this opportunity to play a sport that I, at that time wanted to do.
[00:12:53]  I wanted to try.
[00:12:54]  I wanted to play because my friends played.
[00:12:57]  And that's what it was.
[00:12:58]  And we used to go Sunday mornings.
[00:13:00]  I think it was 25 cents or 50 cents.
[00:13:03]  You would pay the guy to go in the rink when we had a rink in the town next to mine.
[00:13:06]  And you'd learn to skate.
[00:13:07]  You'd learn to play hockey.
[00:13:08]  These great parents and fathers who started hockey in my hometown, never knowing, you know, it was going to lead to college or the Olympic Games, but it was in the wintertime.
[00:13:17]  You had to find something to do and something to play.
[00:13:20]  Hockey was the sport.
[00:13:20]  And I wanted to play and I really, you know, kind of fell in love with it at a young age.
[00:13:25]  So think about that.
[00:13:26]  So you're, you're, you must have been born, what, 54?
[00:13:29]  1954, yeah.
[00:13:30]  All right.
[00:13:31]  So let's say your mom goes to those skates.
[00:13:32]  You're, what, 12 years old around there, 10 or 12?
[00:13:35]  I think I was about, no, I think I might have been nine or 10 at the time.
[00:13:38]  All right.
[00:13:38]  So let's say it's 1964 and your mom gets uses those stamps to get you the nice hockey skates.
[00:13:45]  And in a way, you wonder if like the tectonic plates of the earth shifted.
[00:13:49]  You know what I mean?
[00:13:50]  Like you were the guy.
[00:13:52]  You were the guy who shot the winning goal that beat the Russians in this famous, famous, the most famous sports contest of all time.
[00:14:00]  You did it.
[00:14:01]  I mean, I know very well it's a team effort, but I'm just saying you're the one who shot the winning goal.
[00:14:05]  It brought so much patriotism and national pride and love and joy into a country that was feeling none of that at the time.
[00:14:11]  You just wonder if in this one moment, destinies changed.
[00:14:17]  You know, you know, Herbs told us when we were stepping on the ice before the Soviet game, you were born to be players.
[00:14:22]  You were meant to be here.
[00:14:23]  This moment is yours.
[00:14:25]  And he was so right.
[00:14:27]  You know, I think my teammates, for whatever reason, you know, when they were born, I don't know, you know, I'm not one of those wackos who believes in all the, you know, karma and all stuff like that.
[00:14:37]  But there had to be a reason we all got together to be on that team.
[00:14:41]  You know, we were maybe born to be players.
[00:14:44]  I think we were meant to be there because we worked hard all of our lives, all of us.
[00:14:48]  Every one of my teammates, if you followed any of my teammates in their background, mostly every one of my teammates came from a working class family that had incredible values of work ethic and pride and commitment and respect, qualities that I think made our hockey team so good, as well as clearly we had some pretty good hockey players.
[00:15:08]  But I think the values that our team had and the work ethic that our team had is, you know, I think what makes this country great.
[00:15:16]  It's people like them, people like my teammates and their parents who understood how hard work leads to success.

=== Instilling Values and Work Ethic (03:53) ===

[00:15:23]  My dad always told me, if you understand the value of work, at some point in your life, you'll be successful.
[00:15:29]  And it might not be today or tomorrow, but when you're the best at what you do, it's because of the time and effort and work that you put in, the sacrifices that were made, sacrifices.
[00:15:37]  My dad worked three jobs, you know, not only for me, but my sisters and my brother to give us opportunities to do things.
[00:15:45]  And clearly it led to an incredible moment for me and clearly an incredible moment for my teammates.
[00:15:52]  as you said, an incredible moment for our country, you know, you know, we could use a nature moment.
[00:16:00]  Yeah.
[00:16:00]  So as that, as your dad's imparting these values to you, your life reflects them.
[00:16:06]  Like you, you were playing three sports.
[00:16:08]  You weren't just playing the one, which I do think is interesting, but you, you wanted to do some more hockey.
[00:16:12]  It's just you weren't from a big town.
[00:16:14]  There wasn't even a hockey rink, as I mentioned.
[00:16:16]  And so you go, you find out one winter that there's going to be a hockey camp nearby run by one of the players from the Bruins, but it cost 75 bucks.
[00:16:26]  So, you know, it wasn't cheap.
[00:16:27]  And where are we going to get this kind of money?
[00:16:29]  And that's where Uncle Tony came in.
[00:16:31]  What did he do?
[00:16:32]  Yeah, my Uncle Tony lived upstairs and he was kind of the breadwinner in the family.
[00:16:36]  He had a pretty good job and was pretty successful businessman.
[00:16:40]  And I wanted to go to this hockey school in Lynn, Massachusetts.
[00:16:43]  I think I was 12 years old at the time.
[00:16:44]  And the school was run by a guy named Eddie Schaack, who played for the Bruins.
[00:16:49]  And I asked my uncle if I could borrow $75 to go to the camp.
[00:16:54]  And he said, sure, I'll give you the money.
[00:16:57]  So he gave me the $75 and I went to the camp.
[00:17:01]  And I told him I was going to pay him back.
[00:17:03]  And so be it.
[00:17:05]  A few weeks later, we had a couple of snowstorms and out I went and shoveled and I made $75 and I brought it back to him.
[00:17:12]  I brought it upstairs and I said, Uncle Tony, thank you very much, you know, for the for the money.
[00:17:18]  And he gave it back to me.
[00:17:20]  And he said, you learned a valuable lesson.
[00:17:22]  I said, what's that?
[00:17:22]  He goes, when you borrow something from someone, you pay it back.
[00:17:26]  And I never forgot that.
[00:17:28]  And I walked downstairs and I said to my mom, I said, Mom, Uncle Tony said I could keep the $75.
[00:17:34]  And obviously she put it in a little piggy bank or whatever.
[00:17:37]  And it was there for me.
[00:17:38]  But it was the first lesson I really understood about, you know, commitment and, you know, responsibility.
[00:17:46]  But it's another chance, you know, that sort of communal living like that gives more than just mom and dad, dad's working three jobs and so on, the chance to impart family values, morality.
[00:17:57]  You know, that's what I always say is the great part about going to church on Sundays is you get help imparting morality to your children.
[00:18:03]  That's really what you're doing there in part.
[00:18:05]  It's not just about worship.
[00:18:06]  It's also about instilling a moral code.
[00:18:09]  And too often now, you know, we all live away from our extended family and it's just up to mom and dad.
[00:18:14]  And you can hire a nanny and you could hire a babysitter, but you can't hire Uncle Tony.
[00:18:19]  Like that's, they're just never going to get that same sort of love and care and investment in the kid with paid staff that you are from the family member.
[00:18:28]  Right.
[00:18:29]  And again, like I said, those are values that have stayed with me forever.
[00:18:32]  And hopefully those are the same values that I've instilled in my children.
[00:18:35]  And hopefully those values they're instilling in their children.
[00:18:39]  So, you know, old-fashioned values, you know, things that I grew up with, you know, money's not important in life when I was a kid.
[00:18:48]  And we never looked at it that way.
[00:18:50]  Like I said, my mother always found a way to make ends meet.
[00:18:54]  And whatever you wanted, sometimes you got it and sometimes you didn't get it.
[00:18:58]  And it's again, I was with my sisters yesterday because it was Easter.
[00:19:02]  And we always say the same line.
[00:19:04]  My mom's favorite line was, you'll get nothing and you'll like it.
[00:19:09]  I heard that one.
[00:19:11]  I also heard, stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about.
[00:19:15]  That's right.
[00:19:16]  Come here.
[00:19:16]  I'll tell you.

=== The Importance of Old-Fashioned Coaches (07:58) ===

[00:19:17]  Yeah.
[00:19:17]  It's funny, but I used to see my father with my grandkids, with my kids, I'd look at him and go, is that the same guy that was my father?
[00:19:24]  And it's like me with my grandkids now.
[00:19:26]  They want ice cream.
[00:19:27]  I give them ice cream.
[00:19:27]  M ⁇ Ms, give them M ⁇ Ms. Give them all the candy they want.
[00:19:30]  And you go home and bounce off the walls.
[00:19:32]  You know, I don't have to deal with the craziness, but that's the joy of being the grandpa.
[00:19:36]  All right.
[00:19:37]  So to the subject of the little athlete, there was hockey, but you thought you were going to be a baseball player.
[00:19:43]  This reminds me of, and you played football and you write in your book about how important your football coach was to you and sort of making a man out of you, making an athlete out of you.
[00:19:51]  I did an interview one time with a coach of the Minnesota Vikings who was telling me, this is back during my time at NBC, who was telling me how he loved it when he got a kid, you know, a young man, who played more than one sport in high school because now everyone specializes from a very young age.
[00:20:12]  And he was talking about the benefits you get from an athlete who's been in multiple sports.
[00:20:16]  And you write about in your book, it's not just the skills from, you know, different sporting challenges.
[00:20:21]  It's also the exposure to multiple coaches and the life lessons you get.
[00:20:26]  So talk about how important that was to the player and man you would become.
[00:20:30]  Well, I think, you know, football was, I loved high school football.
[00:20:33]  I was passionate about football.
[00:20:34]  I had a great coach.
[00:20:35]  We used to call him Vince Lombardi.
[00:20:37]  That's how coaches coached in the 70s.
[00:20:39]  They were in your face.
[00:20:40]  They challenged you every single day.
[00:20:41]  They made you a better athlete.
[00:20:42]  They made you a better person.
[00:20:44]  Made you understand, and I'll use that word again, values, how important that work ethic is.
[00:20:49]  And I played more baseball than anything.
[00:20:51]  I played more baseball in my life than hockey.
[00:20:52]  I loved baseball.
[00:20:53]  I couldn't wait for baseball season to start.
[00:20:55]  So for me, it was nice.
[00:20:57]  It was a nice change.
[00:20:59]  You know, I couldn't wait for baseball.
[00:21:00]  And then, you know, baseball was winding down.
[00:21:02]  I couldn't wait.
[00:21:02]  Football season's coming.
[00:21:03]  And then, you know, football's ending at Thanksgiving.
[00:21:05]  Hey, it's hockey season now.
[00:21:06]  Get ready to play hockey.
[00:21:07]  And not only do you get different coaches with different ideas and different methods, but you're playing with different athletes too.
[00:21:14]  Not every kid I played football with played hockey.
[00:21:16]  Some played basketballs.
[00:21:18]  Not all the guys I played baseball with played hockey.
[00:21:20]  So you're hanging with different players, different friends, different teammates.
[00:21:24]  And again, that helps.
[00:21:27]  That makes you well-rounded, makes you appreciate the things that you have as far as being able to play baseball and going out there in the field.
[00:21:35]  And again, your coach is challenging you in a different way than the hockey coach challenged you.
[00:21:40]  And I've always felt because I played those three sports, it made me a better hockey player.
[00:21:44]  Skills that I learned in football and skills that I learned in baseball helped me on the ice.
[00:21:50]  You write about how in this era, the 1960s, we had the Vietnam War, a lot of kids getting involved in drugs, a lot of rebellion against authority.
[00:22:00]  You referred to, I think it was the football coaches, Difa.
[00:22:03]  Yep.
[00:22:04]  Coach Steve Lisi.
[00:22:05]  Difa was trying his level best to make sure you stayed away from all of that.
[00:22:10]  And his method was to be tough on you.
[00:22:12]  I mean, he was all over you, but it was for your own good.
[00:22:16]  Yes.
[00:22:17]  You know, I wasn't going to play football.
[00:22:19]  And he grabbed me one day in school, like right by the collar.
[00:22:21]  And he put me up against the wall.
[00:22:23]  And he says, you better be on the football field next week.
[00:22:26]  He says, you're a good player.
[00:22:27]  You'll be a good player for our team.
[00:22:29]  And I was like, okay, I'm going to play football then.
[00:22:32]  And Bob has become a big part of my life, still is.
[00:22:35]  I see him often.
[00:22:36]  He lives not far from here.
[00:22:38]  He actually just retired.
[00:22:39]  He was the longest active baseball coach at Bentley.
[00:22:43]  He was the athletic director at Bentley College here.
[00:22:46]  And then this is his last year, I believe, as the head baseball coach.
[00:22:49]  But that's how it was, call it tough love, whatever you wanted to call it, but that's just the way it was.
[00:22:55]  And that's how coaches coach.
[00:22:57]  You know, I wasn't going to go home and tell my dad the coach yelled at me because then my dad would yell at me because the coach yelled at me.
[00:23:02]  So those just the way that's the way it was then.
[00:23:05]  And you dealt with it.
[00:23:07]  And it's the same as Herb Brooks as demanding as Herb was and as challenging as Herb was, you deal with it.
[00:23:13]  That's just, I'm not going to quit.
[00:23:15]  You can yell at me all you want.
[00:23:16]  I'm only going to deal with you for a couple hours.
[00:23:19]  But I think, again, they teach you that, you know, that respect that you have for a coach.
[00:23:24]  And all my coaches, there were a lot of times I didn't like my coaches, but I always respected them.
[00:23:30]  And I always tell people, it's kind of like your dad, you know, you love your dad, but sometimes you hate your dad because he makes you do things you don't want to do.
[00:23:37]  And that was the coaches that I had.
[00:23:40]  I hated him sometimes, but I totally respected him.
[00:23:43]  And I think that's the important value that I think all my coaches had.
[00:23:47]  And clearly Herb had that.
[00:23:49]  The two things as a coach that you have to have, your players have to trust you and respect you.
[00:23:53]  If your players don't respect you and your players don't trust you, you got to get out of that business because you're not going to win.
[00:24:00]  And I think those things, those qualities that my coaches had with me anyway, was I respected them.
[00:24:05]  And more importantly, I trusted them in what they were doing.
[00:24:08]  They used to teach mental toughness.
[00:24:10]  And it's not something you can learn off of a chalkboard in a class.
[00:24:14]  They just were tough on you.
[00:24:15]  And only the strong would survive.
[00:24:17]  And if you started off weak, but you just had the will to keep going, you could become strong.
[00:24:21]  You weren't destined to a life of weakness if you started off weak.
[00:24:24]  They knew how to make, as I said, a man out of you.
[00:24:27]  And I just feel like today we reject all of that as toxic masculinity.
[00:24:33]  And it's like it's done so many young men and for that matter, women in sports such good.
[00:24:40]  It's a slippery slope today coaching.
[00:24:43]  And I've coached, I help out with our high school team.
[00:24:45]  I've been doing that for 42 years as a volunteer.
[00:24:48]  Two years I was a volunteer assistant at Boston University.
[00:24:52]  Players are different.
[00:24:53]  Times are different.
[00:24:55]  You know, it's not easy being a coach today because you can't coach.
[00:24:59]  Let's put it this way.
[00:25:00]  You can't coach today like they coached in the 70s.
[00:25:02]  Just not going to work.
[00:25:03]  It's not going to happen because once you cross that line, you're in trouble, whether it be legally or you're going to lose that player in the locker room.
[00:25:12]  You know, he's going to go home and the coach is yelling at me, coach is demanding, coach is pushing me, coach is challenging me.
[00:25:17]  And it's almost like it's hard to do today.
[00:25:20]  You can't coach today like they did in the 70s.
[00:25:22]  So successful coaches find a way to still be, you know, bring those values, that work ethic and that commitment, but they got to find a different way to do it.
[00:25:32]  And I think that's the hard thing about coaching kids today.
[00:25:36]  It's just, I don't know.
[00:25:37]  I know we're generating like a bunch of soft people who are like, well, you know, whether it's on the coaching field or I don't know, we've seen it so many examples of it where there was a guy, there's a guy I know who works for one of the big investment banks in New York City, and he's pretty high up.
[00:25:51]  And he had, you know, sort of a younger recruiting class.
[00:25:55]  They were maybe two years into investment banking.
[00:25:57]  And literally one of the guys' mothers called him up to complain about Junior's work schedule.
[00:26:03]  He's an investment baker.
[00:26:05]  He's making tons of money.
[00:26:07]  He can't make this money anywhere else and it requires long hours.
[00:26:10]  Why is his mommy calling his boss up?
[00:26:14]  Yeah, my parents never questioned anything that my coaches were doing.
[00:26:19]  And, you know, again, maybe coaches in those days, you know, were handled better because the parents didn't deal with it.
[00:26:27]  You know, parents, like I said, I could never go home and tell my dad that Coach D. Felice made me run, you know, five extra laps because I dropped the pass or I did something wrong, because then my dad would get on me about making mistakes.
[00:26:40]  And you can't do that.
[00:26:41]  Coach is right.
[00:26:42]  So again, it's a different era.
[00:26:45]  We live in a different time.
[00:26:46]  You know, there's, you know, the Twitter and Facebook and social media today.
[00:26:51]  It's, it's not easy.
[00:26:52]  It's not easy coaching today.
[00:26:54]  And it's not easy being a kid today.
[00:26:55]  It's just the things that are there for them now are so, so different than when I was a kid.
[00:27:01]  And, you know, I hate to sound like my father.
[00:27:02]  You know, I walked uphill to school every day in the snow.
[00:27:05]  So, I mean, those are, you know, things that go on now are so different than then when I was a kid.
[00:27:11]  And I just kind of, you kind of just shake your head and wonder.

=== Doubts Before the League Game (15:27) ===

[00:27:15]  100%.
[00:27:15]  I was joking not long ago, we were doing a show talking about music and just how when I turned on the radio, I've become like my Nana, you know, like back in my day, the songs had a melody, you know?
[00:27:27]  Who am I?
[00:27:28]  Okay, so there's Mike and he's playing his football and he's playing his baseball and he's playing some hockey and he's thinking, okay, you know, and he's doing pretty well at the hockey.
[00:27:37]  And he's thinking, okay, a lot of my friends here are getting recruited for great schools and they're playing.
[00:27:41]  Why not me?
[00:27:42]  I'm pretty good.
[00:27:42]  Guess who came calling?
[00:27:44]  No one.
[00:27:45]  So how did that kid wind up shooting the game-winning goal in the miracle on ice?
[00:27:51]  That's where we pick it up right after this quick break.
[00:27:54]  More with Michael Ruzzioni.
[00:27:56]  So excited to be having this conversation today.
[00:27:58]  And don't forget, folks, you can find the Megan Kelly Show live on SiriusXM Triumph Channel 111 every weekday at Noon East and our full video show and clips by subscribing to our YouTube channel.
[00:28:08]  It's youtube.com/slash Megan Kelly.
[00:28:10]  If you prefer an audio podcast, sometimes that's nice.
[00:28:13]  If you miss the show live, you can go ahead and subscribe and download on Apple, Spotify, Pandora Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts for free.
[00:28:22]  And there you'll find our full archives with more than 300 shows.
[00:28:26]  We'll be right back.
[00:28:48]  I love how you say every underdog story involves a bit of luck.
[00:28:55]  And my life has been defined by three incredible lucky breaks, three points where something fortunate happened and changed the course of my life.
[00:29:02]  One was meeting your wife.
[00:29:04]  One was being, quote, on the ice in the right place at the right time on February 22, 1980 in Lake Placid, New York, when you scored that goal.
[00:29:14]  And another is one people may not know about if they had, unless they've read your book, which was a chance encounter you had with Jack Parker in August 1973.
[00:29:26]  So tell us what happened in 1973 that led to you meeting this guy and how he changed your life.
[00:29:32]  Well, you know, I, you know, I played three sports in high school and I wasn't the greatest student in the world.
[00:29:39]  And for me, as long as I stayed eligible, I was happy.
[00:29:43]  And I went to prep school for a year.
[00:29:46]  I graduated high school.
[00:29:46]  I was about 155 pounds, maybe 160 tops.
[00:29:50]  And I needed another year academically as well as athletically.
[00:29:54]  I ended up going to a school in Maine called Berwick Academy, a great little place not far from Boston, about an hour and 15, hour and 20 minutes.
[00:30:02]  And I went there as a postgraduate.
[00:30:04]  And I went there with the hope of going to the University of New Hampshire.
[00:30:07]  That's where I wanted to go to school.
[00:30:09]  And the football coach really liked me.
[00:30:11]  He thought I was a pretty good player.
[00:30:12]  He saw me playing a couple in an all-star game.
[00:30:14]  And the baseball coach, because I think at that point, baseball is probably one of my best sports.
[00:30:18]  He really liked me.
[00:30:19]  Unfortunately, the hockey coach, he didn't think I was a Division I player.
[00:30:24]  So I put all my eggs in one basket.
[00:30:25]  I thought, whoops, you know, of course, I'm going to go to UNH.
[00:30:29]  The coaches love me.
[00:30:30]  I'm going to go there.
[00:30:31]  Well, I had no school to go to.
[00:30:34]  And at the time, nobody had recruited me.
[00:30:36]  So the only person that really watched me play was a guy named Tom Waller, who was the head coach at Merrimack College.
[00:30:43]  Merrimack was a Division II school at the time.
[00:30:45]  They weren't Division I.
[00:30:46]  And I accepted the scholarship to go to Merrimack.
[00:30:50]  A few people listening, it was $3,500 in 1973, 74.
[00:30:55]  So I'm all set.
[00:30:56]  I'm going to go to Merrimack College.
[00:30:57]  Well, in the summer, I played baseball in the summer.
[00:31:00]  And I got a call from a friend of mine.
[00:31:02]  And he said, we have a summer league game in Belrica, Mass at the Belrica Forum.
[00:31:07]  And a bunch of the guys went to the Cape for a weekend.
[00:31:09]  Cape Cod, do you want to play?
[00:31:10]  I said, well, you need to play.
[00:31:13]  So I showed up at the game and I played in the Summer League game.
[00:31:18]  And it turned out the guy refereeing the game was a guy named Jack Parker.
[00:31:21]  I didn't know who Jack Parker was.
[00:31:24]  He just, you know, he was the referee in the game.
[00:31:25]  And when the game was over, he pulled me aside and he was the assistant coach at Boston University.
[00:31:31]  And he said, we have a kid from Canada that decided not to come.
[00:31:35]  Would you like to come to Boston University?
[00:31:36]  And now, Boston University is basically coming off back-to-back national championships.
[00:31:40]  They were, you know, one of the top schools in the country.
[00:31:43]  And I said, geez, yeah, I'd like that.
[00:31:45]  He goes, well, why don't you come and see me tomorrow and we'll talk about it.
[00:31:48]  So I went home, told my dad the story.
[00:31:50]  And my dad said, what are you going to do?
[00:31:51]  I said, you know, I'm going to go to BU.
[00:31:53]  I said, I can play.
[00:31:53]  I can play there.
[00:31:55]  So I go meet Coach Parker the next day.
[00:31:57]  And I said, it has to be a full scholarship.
[00:31:58]  And he goes, no, it's, it was, again, 35 or 3,700 bucks.
[00:32:03]  I said, my dad can't afford, you know, that kind of money.
[00:32:05]  He goes, no, full, full scholarship.
[00:32:06]  You're all set.
[00:32:07]  Come to BU.
[00:32:08]  So I went to BU and tried out for the hockey team.
[00:32:11]  And the beginning, I was kind of wondering if I was going to make the team.
[00:32:13]  The head coach didn't know me from Adam, knew nothing about me.
[00:32:17]  But I made the team.
[00:32:18]  I was centering the fourth line.
[00:32:20]  And we had played around two or three games.
[00:32:21]  And I was playing a little, not a lot.
[00:32:23]  I think I had a goal and assist.
[00:32:24]  And right around Christmas, Leon Abbott got fired.
[00:32:28]  Apparently, there were some recruiting violations that were going on that none of us knew about.
[00:32:32]  And Jack Parker became the head coach.
[00:32:34]  So I went from centering the fourth line to playing left wing on the second line.
[00:32:38]  And I think I led the team in goal scoring my freshman year.
[00:32:41]  So I always tell people, you know, life's about opportunities.
[00:32:45]  And Jack Parker gave me that opportunity.
[00:32:48]  You know, I could have shown up at that summer league game and just kind of played and went through the motions, but that wasn't my makeup.
[00:32:52]  That's not the way I played any sports.
[00:32:55]  And again, I'll go back to my dad always told me, you play hard, you work hard.
[00:32:58]  You know, you might strike out.
[00:32:59]  If you pop up, you run the first base.
[00:33:01]  Things that, again, those values that I talked about earlier that were so important to me.
[00:33:05]  It was a summer league game, but to me, it was important to play hard and work hard.
[00:33:09]  I didn't know who the guy refereeing the game was.
[00:33:12]  So again, Jack Parker became the head coach of Boston University.
[00:33:15]  And, you know, I played four years there under Jack.
[00:33:17]  And I think I graduated as the second all-time leading scorer in BU history.
[00:33:22]  I think I'm fourth or fifth now, which means we're getting great players, which is good for the school and good for the program.
[00:33:27]  So, you know, fortunate to be in the right place at the right time.
[00:33:31]  But again, life's about opportunities.
[00:33:33]  And I was given one and I took advantage of it.
[00:33:36]  And if I had never gone to Boston University, clearly I wouldn't have been on the 80 Olympic team.
[00:33:40]  That's right.
[00:33:41]  Two years after I graduated from college.
[00:33:43]  Well, the other thing your dad told me or told me, told you, and you call him Jeep in the book.
[00:33:48]  I like that.
[00:33:50]  So the other thing Jeep told you was no whining, no whining, just work hard, you know, nose to the grindstone.
[00:33:55]  And you write about how originally they put you on the JV team.
[00:33:58]  You didn't whine.
[00:33:59]  You just tried harder.
[00:34:00]  Then they moved you up, as you say, fourth line here.
[00:34:02]  You weren't starting.
[00:34:03]  No whining, just work harder.
[00:34:05]  Then the next thing you know, you're setting all sorts of records for the school.
[00:34:07]  And before that, you're on the Miracle on Ice team.
[00:34:10]  And all I could think about was there's a story last year, the year before, I don't know, but it was when the players, like Naomi Osaka, started to complain about how she didn't want to do press conferences.
[00:34:20]  And then they actually created like private meditation rooms, Mike, for all of the professional tennis players because they needed like a private mental health room before they went out.
[00:34:35]  And I tweeted about this is nonsense.
[00:34:37]  Like I can't, like, I would never want these people representing me in the U.S. military.
[00:34:41]  Can you imagine?
[00:34:41]  Like, I've just got to go do my private, you know, mantra before I go out.
[00:34:45]  Like, no, toughen up for the love of God and have some perspective on what it is you're doing.
[00:34:51]  Yeah, again, dealing with different athletes.
[00:34:54]  It's a different era, different time.
[00:34:55]  You know, at Boston University, you know, we got strength conditioning coaches, we got the psychologists that meet with the students and meet with the athletes.
[00:35:04]  You know, when kids today, and I get, I kind of laugh about it, not laugh because I know there are some issues out there, but kids today, they're called hyperactive and they give them medication to balance things off.
[00:35:16]  When I was a kid, you were a pain in the ass.
[00:35:18]  You know, I could keep going to my father.
[00:35:20]  Hey, dad, I'm hyperactive.
[00:35:21]  Come here, I'll show you hyperactive.
[00:35:24]  But again, we're dealing with it at a different, different time.
[00:35:27]  And, you know, some of these athletes have some issues, have some mental issues.
[00:35:32]  And I can't fathom it because I never had anything like that.
[00:35:36]  But is there that much pressure on him?
[00:35:38]  Is it that much more demanding?
[00:35:39]  Is it that much more difficult today than it was back when Major League Baseball players played baseball or football or hockey or whatever sports?
[00:35:48]  Nothing was there then.
[00:35:49]  Now, did some of those athletes need that kind of help?
[00:35:52]  Maybe they did.
[00:35:54]  And we didn't know it.
[00:35:55]  But it seems to be more of the norm now than it ever was.
[00:36:00]  You get to Miracle on Ice team.
[00:36:01]  You got Herb Brooks creating the psychological issues.
[00:36:03]  Then you'd have a sports psychologist trying to fix them.
[00:36:06]  That's how that would have worked.
[00:36:08]  But you were born to play for a guy like Herb, given the experience that we just discussed.
[00:36:12]  So you're playing for Boston.
[00:36:14]  You did some stints in sort of International Hockey League and sort of the equivalent of a AAA hockey league.
[00:36:22]  And one thing leads to another.
[00:36:24]  You get a tryout.
[00:36:25]  You've done some national championship teamwork.
[00:36:29]  So you've been playing at the national level and recruited as somebody who is one of our best.
[00:36:34]  But how did you wind up being one of the 26?
[00:36:38]  Because of course, now as portrayed in the movies, they took 26 players.
[00:36:42]  Herb selected 26 players for the 1980 Olympic hockey team, but only 20 could go.
[00:36:47]  So six guys the whole time knew they were going to get cut.
[00:36:49]  You just didn't know who.
[00:36:50]  So how did you become one of the 26?
[00:36:54]  I guess Herb liked me.
[00:36:56]  I never really thought about it.
[00:36:57]  You know, I mean, you always worry.
[00:36:59]  I mean, he threatened to cut me.
[00:37:01]  He said, I'm going to cut you.
[00:37:02]  And I'm thinking, he can't cut me.
[00:37:03]  I'm the captain.
[00:37:03]  And I'm thinking, you know what?
[00:37:04]  He could cut me.
[00:37:05]  That's just the way Herb was.
[00:37:06]  He challenged you throughout the course of the year.
[00:37:09]  But, you know, again, keep your nose to the grindstone and try to prove that you should be one of the 20 players.
[00:37:15]  Even though I was the captain of a team, I wasn't the best player on our team.
[00:37:18]  I'd like to think I was an important part of our team, like every member of my team was.
[00:37:22]  I mean, I've said many times, we don't win without Mark Johnson.
[00:37:25]  You know, Mark Johnson was unbelievable in Lake Placid.
[00:37:28]  When we needed a goal, it would be like magic.
[00:37:30]  We need a goal and he'd score it.
[00:37:31]  But I think that's what made our team so special is everybody had a role.
[00:37:34]  Everybody understood what they needed to do in order for our team to win.
[00:37:38]  And maybe Herb saw a role in me.
[00:37:40]  He saw something in me as either the captain of the team or somebody that my teammates respected on the ice, but more importantly, maybe off the ice.
[00:37:51]  I still don't believe, and I've never even asked Herb or any of my teammates.
[00:37:56]  I don't believe I was voted captain by my teammates.
[00:37:59]  There's no way 12 guys from Minnesota are voting for somebody from Boston.
[00:38:02]  I love this story.
[00:38:04]  Because most of the team had played for Herb at Minnesota, and they were from Minnesota.
[00:38:08]  And there was an East Coast, West Coast, well, I guess Midwest rivalry.
[00:38:13]  Right.
[00:38:13]  You know, Minnesota and Massachusetts guys, especially the BU guys, we didn't get along with the Minnesota guys prior to this tryout.
[00:38:20]  So people wondered, can this team come together?
[00:38:22]  You know, so many, you know, issues that might, you know, take place, although none of them ever even happened.
[00:38:28]  Once our team was picked, boy, we bonded even to this day.
[00:38:32]  There's a bond and a love and a friendship that we have.
[00:38:34]  We'll always have.
[00:38:35]  But people wondered at the beginning.
[00:38:37]  And I'm thinking maybe they voted for a guy from Minnesota.
[00:38:41]  I voted for Buzzie Schneider.
[00:38:43]  And actually, Jack O'Callaghan, one of my Boston teammates, he didn't even vote for me.
[00:38:48]  So I'm thinking, you know, Herb felt that he couldn't have a guy from Minnesota as captain.
[00:38:53]  It might create some issues in the locker room.
[00:38:56]  And for whatever reason, I was selected.
[00:38:58]  Wow.
[00:38:59]  That's a great story.
[00:39:01]  So in the 2004, again, the movie Miracle starring Kurt Russell, who did a great job as Herb Brooks, they play a scene.
[00:39:08]  They have a scene in which the young Aruzzioni stands out amongst his team after a particularly tough, it's not really a practice.
[00:39:17]  You guys had lost a hockey game for Herb did not think you should have lost.
[00:39:22]  He thought you'd phoned it in.
[00:39:24]  And this is based on reality.
[00:39:27]  And you'll tell me where the differences are, but I know that, as portrayed in the movie, he just kept making you do drills back and forth again, again, again, again.
[00:39:34]  And in the movie, the assistant coach is growing uncomfortable.
[00:39:37]  The team doctor is growing uncomfortable with the amount he's putting on you guys.
[00:39:41]  There's no mercy in this movie until a young player named Michael Ruzzioni figures out, because the whole movie, they've been saying, Who do you play for?
[00:39:49]  And Michael Ruzzioni would have said, Boston University.
[00:39:51]  The other guys would have said Minnesota.
[00:39:53]  And finally, this is the moment where the team starts to get, no, no more East West.
[00:39:59]  It's Team USA.
[00:40:01]  We have it queued up.
[00:40:02]  Let's watch Soundbite and listen to three.
[00:40:06]  Everybody, get on that line.
[00:40:10]  Hey.
[00:40:19]  Again.
[00:40:25]  Again.
[00:40:31]  Come on, Craig.
[00:40:35]  Again.
[00:40:41]  Michael Ruzzioni.
[00:40:50]  Went through Massachusetts.
[00:40:59]  Who do you play for?
[00:41:02]  Play for the United States of America.
[00:41:11]  That's all, gentlemen.
[00:41:16]  So good.
[00:41:18]  I don't really even care if it was true.
[00:41:20]  It's just so well done dramatically.
[00:41:22]  It gives you all the feels.
[00:41:24]  But I do, I am curious.
[00:41:26]  Was it true?
[00:41:26]  Did it happen like that?
[00:41:28]  I would like to say it did.
[00:41:30]  It's a great line.
[00:41:33]  What happened was we tied Norway that night, and only 16 of us dressed.
[00:41:38]  A lot of times we'd only dress 16 players, even though with 26 of us, Herb thought three lines, conditioning, whatever.
[00:41:44]  And we always practiced the day of a game.
[00:41:46]  So we skated that morning, practiced, played the game.
[00:41:50]  And the game ended in a tie.
[00:41:52]  Buzzy Schneider got thrown out of the game for fighting.
[00:41:55]  So there were only 15 of us left.
[00:41:57]  Then we proceeded to shake hands with the Norwegian players and we started to skate off the ice.
[00:42:01]  And that's when Herb blew the whistle.
[00:42:04]  And he brought us down to one end of the rink.
[00:42:06]  And we continued and we did the Herbies.
[00:42:07]  We used to call them Herbies.
[00:42:09]  Today they're suicides or gassers.
[00:42:11]  And we'd do them 15 minutes at a time.
[00:42:14]  Then we'd stretch.
[00:42:15]  Then he blew the whistle and we went back and did it again.
[00:42:17]  Then we'd stretch and do it again.
[00:42:19]  And then they shut the lights off in the building.
[00:42:21]  We probably did them for about an hour and 15 minutes after the game.
[00:42:25]  I remember Mark Johnson smashing his stick against the boards.
[00:42:28]  And Herb said, if I hear another stick smash against the boards, you'll skate till you die.
[00:42:33]  Well, we continued to do them.
[00:42:35]  Then we went back in a locker room and Herb said, if you play this way again tomorrow, you're going to skate again.
[00:42:40]  Well, we went eight to nothing the next day.

=== Mindset During the Medal Round (15:31) ===

[00:42:42]  So he got the message across to us.
[00:42:44]  But when I saw the scene in the movie, I asked the director, a producer, I said, why?
[00:42:49]  I said, that's a pretty powerful statement.
[00:42:52]  He said, I had to show at some point where you were going to be the leader and the captain of the team.
[00:42:56]  And although I've said many times, we had a team of leaders, 20 players in that team, all captains of their high school or college teams.
[00:43:04]  But he said, I've heard you speak and I hear you talk about pride and what it means to represent your country, how important it is to put a USA jersey on the front.
[00:43:13]  And I've felt that from day one.
[00:43:15]  You know, I go back to my dad was a Marine, so we understood how important this country is and what this country gives you and the opportunities it gives you.
[00:43:23]  And he said, I just felt that would be a great way to show that y'all, your support and your love for this country.
[00:43:29]  That would be a great way to kind of do that.
[00:43:31]  And I went, well, thank you, but that's still a pretty powerful statement.
[00:43:37]  Well, to me, it shows, yes, you emerging as a leader, but also it seems to be the moment where the team is truly gelling.
[00:43:44]  The rivalries are melting away.
[00:43:47]  The hatred of Herb is uniform, you know, and that's right by design.
[00:43:52]  And that's really one of the reasons he's remembered as such a great coach.
[00:43:56]  I mean, they address it in the film saying they have the team doctor having a private conversation with the assistant coach, Craig, saying maybe what he's doing is he's trying to make himself the common enemy for all these guys as opposed to having this rivalry amongst the guys.
[00:44:12]  Absolutely.
[00:44:13]  That was, you know, he used to say to us, there's a method to my madness.
[00:44:16]  And, you know, I was just with Craig Patrick last week or two weeks ago, and we kind of talked about that.
[00:44:20]  That was his intention.
[00:44:23]  He was going to be the bad guy.
[00:44:24]  It was us against him.
[00:44:26]  Craig Patrick, people don't realize how important Craig Patrick was to our team.
[00:44:30]  We needed that.
[00:44:31]  It was a good cop, bad cop situation.
[00:44:33]  And Herb stayed true to form.
[00:44:35]  I mean, he stayed absolutely that way all season long.
[00:44:38]  It was us against him.
[00:44:40]  He was going to prove, you know, he didn't, like I said earlier, he didn't care if we liked him, but we respected him.
[00:44:45]  And it was important that he felt he had to coach that way and not have any favoritism, don't show any favoritism towards the Minnesota players.
[00:44:53]  And, you know, I remember years after the Olympics, Herb would call the house.
[00:44:57]  And here I am married with three kids.
[00:44:59]  And my wife would say, it's Herb.
[00:45:00]  And I'm thinking, oh my God, he's going to yell at me.
[00:45:04]  I'm 40 something years old.
[00:45:05]  And he's going to, you know, he stayed that way till he passed.
[00:45:09]  And, you know, I think he would have loved to have been close to this team.
[00:45:12]  I think he would have loved to hang around with us after the Olympics and go to parties that we would have or gatherings.
[00:45:18]  You know, he never showed up.
[00:45:19]  When we ever had team outings, he always stayed back.
[00:45:22]  And he'd call me later and go, how'd it go?
[00:45:24]  Everybody there?
[00:45:25]  Everybody have fun.
[00:45:25]  I say, Herb, will you come to come to one of these things?
[00:45:28]  No, you guys enjoy the moment.
[00:45:30]  And he stayed true to Forum right till the end.
[00:45:33]  That's so great.
[00:45:34]  That was just his approach to you guys.
[00:45:36]  He seemed to see you as more important.
[00:45:39]  The team dynamic, that relationship between the 26 and then ultimately 20 of you was more important.
[00:45:47]  When we beat the Soviets, he never said good game.
[00:45:50]  Congratulations.
[00:45:51]  When we beat Finland to win the gold medal, he never came in the locker room and said, what a great job.
[00:45:55]  Way to go, guys.
[00:45:57]  He stood back and just let us enjoy the moment.
[00:45:59]  He let us embrace each other, hug each other, cry together in the locker room.
[00:46:03]  And he just stepped back and just watched it.
[00:46:07]  And that had to be hard to do to not want to jump on us and jump in the room.
[00:46:12]  And after the game, he went right to the locker room and people said, why didn't he come on the ice?
[00:46:17]  And I said, if he ever came on the ice, the guys would have went, oh, now you want to be friendly.
[00:46:21]  Now you want to be close to us because we won.
[00:46:24]  He stayed away right till the end.
[00:46:26]  And I think, you know, I've never talked to his wife or kids about it, but I got to think that was hard for him to do.
[00:46:32]  But he never wavered.
[00:46:34]  He stayed true right till the end.
[00:46:36]  Didn't you hear him at some point, Mike, say, I love this team or I love the guys on this team?
[00:46:43]  And everybody was like, what?
[00:46:46]  He died.
[00:46:47]  What?
[00:46:48]  I think he said that at a press conference, but he didn't say it to us.
[00:46:53]  He said it to the media because we weren't allowed to talk to the media during the games.
[00:46:57]  We didn't know what people were writing or saying or we had no idea the world was watching the way they were.
[00:47:02]  I mean, we knew people in Lake Placid were excited.
[00:47:05]  I knew my family at home was excited because I'd call home once in a while and check in, but no clue that this moment was what it became.
[00:47:13]  And I think part of the reason Herb didn't want us to talk to the media was because it would have always been the same pleat people.
[00:47:18]  It would have been Mark Johnson, obviously, because he was so great a player.
[00:47:21]  It would have been me because Captain, it would have been Jim Craig.
[00:47:24]  But we were four lines of players.
[00:47:27]  We were six defensemen.
[00:47:28]  We were two goaltenders.
[00:47:30]  We were 20 players.
[00:47:32]  And Herb wanted to make sure that we understood that it was 20 players and not one, two, or three.
[00:47:37]  And I think he felt if we did go to press conferences, that would have been what it would have been like.
[00:47:42]  And he didn't want to see that.
[00:47:44]  And I'm glad he did it because we didn't have to talk to anybody.
[00:47:47]  That's amazing.
[00:47:48]  It's, it's, I mean, I understand him not showing you the love before the win, but after the gold medal, in my mind, I pictured him with you guys at the parties and saying, I've loved you all along.
[00:48:00]  I always thought you were the bastard.
[00:48:02]  So he never sort of broke role.
[00:48:04]  Right.
[00:48:05]  We beat Finland to win the gold medal and we celebrated obviously in the locker room.
[00:48:09]  There was no champagne or alcohol, none of that.
[00:48:12]  Most of my teammates weren't old enough to drink.
[00:48:14]  I mean, the average age, drinking age was 21, and I think our average age of our team was 22, 21 and a half.
[00:48:20]  So we weren't a party team at all.
[00:48:22]  I mean, I think the Boston guys might have took care of the Minnesota guys when it came to partying.
[00:48:26]  But I remember we win the gold medal and Herb calls me into the back area, into the shower area.
[00:48:31]  And he says, look, Mike, I just found out that President Carter is sending a plane to take the Olympians to the White House tomorrow at 6 a.m.
[00:48:39]  I want you to make sure that everybody's in bed early and nobody acts up tonight.
[00:48:44]  I looked at him.
[00:48:45]  I said, who's going to watch me?
[00:48:47]  That's crazy.
[00:48:49]  I got to tell you, we basically stayed out pretty much all night just having some beers and drinking and celebrating with each other and our families.
[00:48:56]  I want to squeeze in a break and I want to pick it back up with more on this conversation.
[00:49:00]  And we've let the audience wait long enough.
[00:49:03]  Let's get to it.
[00:49:04]  The miracle on ice, how it went down, the emotions of the guys, and how Mike sees the world today, in particular with respect to Russia.
[00:49:12]  Don't go away.
[00:49:13]  Don't miss that.
[00:49:32]  Mike, let's just spend a minute on how good the Russians were.
[00:49:38]  I mean, they truly were considered unbeatable by everyone.
[00:49:43]  And you did not go into the Olympics thinking, we got a decent chance at gold.
[00:49:48]  No, you know, we went into, first of all, we didn't even talk about the Russians at all.
[00:49:53]  They were in the other division.
[00:49:54]  We needed to worry about Sweden, Czechoslovakia, Finland, and West Germany, as well as Norway and Romania.
[00:50:01]  But, you know, those are the three countries that people thought were going to beat us.
[00:50:05]  They thought would beat Norway and beat Romania, but the other three, they didn't think we had a chance of beating.
[00:50:10]  So going in the Olympic Games, our goal was to get to the medal round.
[00:50:14]  You get to the medal round, and anything can happen once you're there.
[00:50:18]  And I hate to sound cliché-ish, but it was really one game at a time.
[00:50:21]  That was our mindset.
[00:50:23]  You know, we played Sweden before the opening ceremonies.
[00:50:25]  The games hadn't even begun yet.
[00:50:27]  And we played Sweden and the building wasn't even that crowded.
[00:50:30]  And not many people were at the game because I don't think people thought we were going to win any games anyway.
[00:50:35]  So, you know, I think arguably the biggest goal of the Olympics probably was Billy Baker's with 28 seconds left to go.
[00:50:43]  We tie Sweden two to two.
[00:50:45]  We didn't play really well, but to get a point out of that game was huge.
[00:50:49]  It was a big confidence builder for our team.
[00:50:52]  And then we took care of business.
[00:50:54]  You know, we beat the Czechs seven to three and nobody thought everybody thought the Czechs were the only team that could beat the Soviets.
[00:51:00]  So, you know, when we beat them, now all of a sudden it was like, hey, what's going on in hockey?
[00:51:04]  This team's got a chance.
[00:51:06]  Well, but because what I understood was, and I'm not, you know, I don't know much about hockey, but my understanding from your book and other sources is that the Russians were just, they were considered unbeatable.
[00:51:16]  It was like, maybe you could do something, but no, no one thinks you can beat the Russians.
[00:51:20]  Like beating the Russians is not going to happen.
[00:51:22]  Maybe Herb Brooks had it in the back of his head, but none of the pundits, none of the sports analysts, none of the teams.
[00:51:28]  And then American hockey, you know, growing up, you know, more recently, people think of the NHL as amazing.
[00:51:35]  I don't think that they, American hockey has changed a lot because back then you write about how like the NHL was recruiting foreigners, like not Americans.
[00:51:44]  And at a lot of these schools too, these universities, they were recruiting foreigners.
[00:51:48]  They didn't want a bunch of American kids because we weren't really the greatest when it came to hockey.
[00:51:53]  So you guys kind of went in as like, you know, the not greatest reputation team.
[00:51:58]  Like the Americans are never known for the hockey at this point.
[00:52:01]  And the Russians are known as the greatest in the world and totally unbeatable.
[00:52:04]  Well, you know, we lost the Soviets 10 to 1 right before the Olympic Games.
[00:52:08]  The last game we played was in Madison Square Garden and that Soviet team beat us 10 to 3.
[00:52:12]  So obviously people didn't think we had any chance of winning a medal, let alone winning the whole tournament.
[00:52:18]  So, you know, as I always tell people, if you think you're going to lose, you probably will.
[00:52:23]  So our mindset going in was, again, let's play one game at a time and get to the medal round.
[00:52:28]  If you get to the medal round, anything can happen.
[00:52:30]  And that was our mindset.
[00:52:31]  And that was Herb's mindset for our team was, let's play the game and find out.
[00:52:36]  And, you know, clearly we were a lot better hockey team when we played the Soviets the second time than the first time.
[00:52:42]  I think the first time we stood around and watched and was like, oh my God, that's the Soviets.
[00:52:46]  And we were down.
[00:52:47]  I think we were down six to nothing at one point and then kind of played a little better the last two periods of the game.
[00:52:52]  But going into the game in Lake Placid against the Soviets was a totally different team.
[00:52:59]  Our confidence level was, you know, ready to go.
[00:53:03]  And did we think we could win?
[00:53:05]  You know, we knew it was going to be hard.
[00:53:06]  We knew it was going to be difficult.
[00:53:08]  But again, you know, let's play and find out.
[00:53:12]  You know, that's why you play the game.
[00:53:14]  And, you know, if we had to play him, and I think Herb said it, if we had to play him 10 more times, we might have lost 10 games.
[00:53:21]  But that wasn't the way the tournament was set up.
[00:53:24]  You had to play one game and we were ready to play that game.
[00:53:27]  There's that classic line from the movie where he's saying, they'd beat you nine out of 10 times.
[00:53:31]  Not tonight.
[00:53:32]  Not this game.
[00:53:34]  So the Russians, this is from your book.
[00:53:36]  Five years earlier, you had gone to this international event and you write in international hockey, no one could touch them, the Russians.
[00:53:44]  By 1975, they had taken gold at three Olympics in a row and nine of the last 10 world championships.
[00:53:52]  They hardly ever even lost a game.
[00:53:55]  At that tournament, we, the Americans, played 10 games and lost every single one.
[00:53:59]  The United States was a long way from being a serious contender in international hockey.
[00:54:03]  So you get to Lake Placid five years later on the Olympic team this time, and the Russians hadn't lost a game at the Olympics in 12 years.
[00:54:12]  No U.S. team had won against the Soviets since 1960 at the Olympics, 20 years earlier.
[00:54:18]  And the Boston Globe was saying, quote, nobody's going to touch the Russians.
[00:54:23]  All the press was writing, no, maybe, maybe they could get the bronze, the U.S.
[00:54:28]  It's possible we could get the Bronze.
[00:54:30]  Or maybe if like God shines on them, possibly us silver.
[00:54:34]  But like the outside world was not looking at our guys as possible gold medal contenders, hence the relative yawn when you guys were playing.
[00:54:42]  But you were having a very different experience.
[00:54:44]  And talk to us because this is where sort of the outside world versus your own mentality come in.
[00:54:51]  Like America wasn't doing so well in 1980 and the mood wasn't very positive or sunny and we weren't feeling very patriotic.
[00:55:00]  And you guys, I don't want to say you had the weight of the world on you because that's not the way Herb set it up for you.
[00:55:06]  That's not the way you set it up for yourselves.
[00:55:08]  So it was a bit of a, not a clash, but maybe just a contrast in the country versus your own individual mindsets.
[00:55:15]  You know, to us it was a hockey game um, an opportunity to to win a game and get to the medal game, get to the gold medal game.
[00:55:22]  Uh clearly, we found out later that it was much more than a hockey game.
[00:55:25]  It was far bigger to a lot of people.
[00:55:28]  For the hockey fan it was a hockey game, but for people in this country and we found out later it was, you know, we needed something to feel good about.
[00:55:35]  Uh, as a country, you were like, the hostages have been taken.
[00:55:38]  Um, Soviets had invaded Afghanistan.
[00:55:41]  The gas lines inflation, you know, and i've said this before kind of like what we're dealing with today.
[00:55:47]  But I think it's a little worse now than it was in 1979 and 1980.
[00:55:50]  And along we come.
[00:55:52]  Um, a bunch of this herb called us lunch pale hard hat group of guys.
[00:55:56]  But I think people related to our team.
[00:55:58]  They saw where we came from, they saw our backgrounds.
[00:56:01]  Like I said to you earlier Megan, that we we came from working class families.
[00:56:06]  What makes this country so great is the people like our parents and and what they taught us and the values and the work ethic that our team had.
[00:56:13]  Um, people saw that and they related to that.
[00:56:15]  Uh, I remember somebody did a story after it was in.
[00:56:19]  It was um, we were the boy next door, we were the kid next door who you saw out in the street playing, you know, street hockey.
[00:56:25]  And uh, we were the kid next door that all of a sudden you look at and saw wow, he's on the Olympic team playing, you know, for the United States.
[00:56:33]  That's the kid that lives across the street from me and I think people saw that in us.
[00:56:37]  They saw that work ethic, they saw that you know, we love America type of a hockey team and we did.
[00:56:42]  We took great pride in putting that jersey on that says Usa across the front.
[00:56:46]  I think people saw that and related to that and then, by winning, it just just skyrocketed.
[00:56:52]  You know, I can't tell you how many times people come up to me today and they'll say exactly this, I remember where I was when we won and I go we, I I didn't know you were on the team, but that's what people felt, like they.
[00:57:04]  They felt like they were a part of us and people were proud to wave the flag after.
[00:57:10]  You know, after we won and prior to that, people were wondering where, where are we headed, where's this country going, and I think Jimmy Carter even said it.
[00:57:17]  He says we're a country that's, you know, headed in in the wrong direction and we need something to feel good about.
[00:57:24]  And it was us and, and people felt that way.
[00:57:28]  I remember we would get telegrams um, and we would put them up on the wall in the locker room.
[00:57:33]  It was a great way to spend the day.
[00:57:35]  Sometimes you'd sit in your locker, on your stall there and open up telegrams and read them and put them up on the wall.
[00:57:40]  And I remember we got I think I can say this in the air, but we got a telegram from a lady in Texas and all it said was, beat those commie bastards.
[00:57:49]  It had nothing to do with a hockey game, but people in this country were looking for something, and clearly the Soviets the threat of a cold war.
[00:57:57]  What was happening between the two countries?
[00:57:58]  For again, like we're talking today um, and it, and it happened to be us, and I think again, my teammates and I took great pride in in that game but and I say but, because if we don't beat Finland, we don't win the gold medal.

=== Realizing We Were Going to Win (12:33) ===

[00:58:14]  If we don't beat Finland, there's a chance we could have come in third place and maybe even fourth place, and not even won a medal.
[00:58:19]  So, as great as the Soviet game was, the finished game was the biggest game we'd ever play, and you know, i've said this many times.
[00:58:26]  Imagine if We lose to Finland and people coming up to me and saying, geez, what a great Olympics, but boy, if you only could have beat Finland to win.
[00:58:34]  So, as great as the Soviet victory was, the Finland's game became even greater.
[00:58:39]  Now, and speaking of that, because I've talked to my kids about this, this does not appear in Miracle, but and you are allowed to swear on this show.
[00:58:47]  When you did go into the Finland game, I guess you tell me, but my memory serves this happened during halftime when you were down.
[00:58:54]  You guys love to come from behind.
[00:58:56]  And that's so scary for the fans and for the family members of the players.
[00:59:00]  But so you go into the hat into the locker room at halftime, and Herbrook said this sort of infamous line about what would happen if you did not win this gold medal.
[00:59:11]  What did he say?
[00:59:13]  Well, we're losing two to one going in hockey to be the third period.
[00:59:17]  You know, we were trailing, and I, and again, I'll get to the story in a minute, but I'm going to give you a little fact that I didn't even know about.
[00:59:25]  Robbie McLanahan, one of my teammates, mentioned this a while ago.
[00:59:29]  We outscored our opponents in the third period 17 to 3.
[00:59:33]  That's an amazing number.
[00:59:34]  Anybody who follows sports, 17 to 3.
[00:59:36]  We were trailing Sweden.
[00:59:38]  We came back and tied.
[00:59:39]  We were trailing Czechoslovakia.
[00:59:40]  We were trailing Norway.
[00:59:41]  We were trailing West Germany by two goals.
[00:59:44]  We were trailing the Soviets throughout the game and came back and won.
[00:59:47]  I think, again, that's a true testament of our team and the character and the values and the work ethic that our team had to come from behind so many times.
[00:59:55]  So we're losing two to one.
[00:59:58]  I remember like it was yesterday.
[00:59:59]  Jack O'Callahan must have said it 100 times in the locker room.
[01:00:02]  There's no way a bunch of fins are keeping us from a gold medal.
[01:00:05]  And he was walking around the locker room and the energy in the room was incredible.
[01:00:09]  And Herb walked in, he stood in front of us.
[01:00:11]  He said, if you lose this game, you'll take it to your effing grave.
[01:00:14]  Then he walked out, he stopped, he pointed his finger, and he said, Your effing grave.
[01:00:18]  And he walked out.
[01:00:21]  He was so hyped.
[01:00:22]  You know, to come so far, to work so hard, to accomplish so much, to let it slip away, would have stayed with us forever.
[01:00:29]  And we went out, in my opinion, played the best 20 minutes of hockey we played all year under the gun, under the biggest moment.
[01:00:37]  The best 20 minutes of hockey we played was the third period against Finland.
[01:00:40]  We scored three goals.
[01:00:42]  We went four to two.
[01:00:44]  We win the whole thing.
[01:00:45]  It was incredible.
[01:00:46]  It's also a testament to the conditioning and all the time you guys put into it.
[01:00:49]  You know, the hard work, right?
[01:00:51]  You, everybody was dying in the second and third periods, and you guys weren't because you did do the Herbies or the suicides.
[01:00:58]  And he had always said to you, you won't win on talent.
[01:01:02]  You will not win on talent alone.
[01:01:05]  Conditioning was a big part of our success.
[01:01:07]  The speed of our team, the youth of our team.
[01:01:10]  You know, we used our youth to an advantage.
[01:01:14]  Like I said, we were young.
[01:01:15]  It was the youngest Olympic team we had ever put on the ice.
[01:01:18]  It was clearly the youngest Olympic team in the tournament.
[01:01:20]  So our youth and our conditioning was a big part of our success.
[01:01:24]  And we played four lines.
[01:01:26]  Any hockey fans that are listening, we didn't play, you know, one, two, three, four, then one, two, one, two, three.
[01:01:31]  We played all four lines consistently throughout the Olympic Games.
[01:01:35]  And that showed, again, the depth and the talent of our team.
[01:01:38]  We clearly, you know, we were clearly a pretty good hockey team.
[01:01:42]  And I don't think people realize it.
[01:01:43]  Maybe we didn't even realize how good we were, how good we became.
[01:01:48]  And I think that's the joy that I take back 42 years later is realizing that, you know, it wasn't a fluke.
[01:01:54]  It wasn't a miracle.
[01:01:55]  Miracle is a catchy phrase.
[01:01:56]  It sounds nice.
[01:01:57]  Craig Patrick, our assistant coach, said it best.
[01:02:00]  And he said at the end that we deserved what we got.
[01:02:03]  We deserved to win that tournament and win that medal.
[01:02:05]  And I think that, again, is important for me and my teammates to realize it was an accomplishment by a group of athletes who believed.
[01:02:13]  You know, we believed in ourselves, but more importantly, we believed in each other.
[01:02:16]  And when you're in that atmosphere, when you're in the locker room, when you've got 20 guys all pulling together, and I'm sure teams feel the same way.
[01:02:24]  They're pulling together and maybe they don't win because of it.
[01:02:27]  Maybe they weren't good enough, but they still work together.
[01:02:29]  We had everything going for us.
[01:02:31]  We had a home crowd.
[01:02:33]  We had youth.
[01:02:34]  We had speed.
[01:02:35]  We had skill.
[01:02:36]  Our goaltender was playing outstanding hockey.
[01:02:38]  We had some talented players as we saw years later when they went on.
[01:02:42]  And, you know, Mike Ramsey, Davy Christian, Neil Bronton.
[01:02:45]  played 16, 17, 18 years in the NHL.
[01:02:48]  Kenny Murrow went from the Olympics to four straight Stanley Cups with the New York Islanders, and he was a big part of that, those Stanley Cup teams.
[01:02:55]  You know, Mark Johnson was Mark Johnson.
[01:02:57]  He was a great player.
[01:02:58]  I'd love to see Mark Johnson in today's NHL where he wouldn't get hooked and held and beat up like because he's not a very big kid, but he was so talented.
[01:03:07]  But again, those are things that I take back and cherish more than anything is we deserved to win that tournament.
[01:03:13]  And it wasn't like lucky.
[01:03:15]  And like I said, Miracles, I love Al Michaels and it was a great praise.
[01:03:20]  So good.
[01:03:21]  We deserved what we got.
[01:03:22]  And we'll play that in one minute, but you, and we talked a little bit about the gold medal match, which was anticlimactic in a way, because the big, big match was the one right before that.
[01:03:32]  You had to play the Russians.
[01:03:34]  And if you hadn't beaten them, you never would have been in the gold medal match.
[01:03:38]  You write that the fieldhouse in Lake Placid, which is now Herb Brooks Arena.
[01:03:42]  So great.
[01:03:43]  I've been there.
[01:03:43]  It's such a thing to go into it now and just knowing what happened.
[01:03:47]  But back then, 1980 fieldhouse in Lake Placid has seats for 8,700 people.
[01:03:51]  For the game played on Friday, February 22nd, every one of them was filled.
[01:03:56]  You talk about how in your first game, not so much.
[01:03:59]  By this point, the country had caught on that there was this extraordinary group of young men that was doing something incredibly special in Lake Placid.
[01:04:07]  And it was a chance to wave the flag and chant USA and mean it.
[01:04:11]  And whether you were doing it in Lake Placid or where I was not far away up in upstate New York, which is kind of where Lake Placid is, although it's closer to the Canadian border, or where your family was back in Massachusetts, we were together.
[01:04:26]  We felt together.
[01:04:27]  One of the things I love about your book that I didn't know was how your family watched the game.
[01:04:31]  They weren't all in Lake Placid.
[01:04:32]  A lot of them were in that three-story house and trying to like take in what they could.
[01:04:37]  And then, you know, by the end, they were all together.
[01:04:40]  I'll let you tell it.
[01:04:41]  But before I get to the family, I want to talk about you.
[01:04:45]  Because for the people who aren't familiar with the game, you were behind, of course.
[01:04:52]  We didn't start off winning.
[01:04:53]  And I wonder whether there, well, like, when was the moment when playing it that it dawned on you, we're going to win this game.
[01:05:01]  Like we actually are winning.
[01:05:04]  We're going to beat these guys.
[01:05:07]  When the buzzer sounded at the end.
[01:05:10]  When the game ended is when we realized we were going to win.
[01:05:14]  You know, I scored with 10 minutes left to go in the game and it was the longest 10 minutes of your life.
[01:05:19]  That was the last goal to be scored.
[01:05:20]  That was the game winning goal.
[01:05:21]  Right, right.
[01:05:22]  With 10 minutes left, but it was a long lasting 10 minutes.
[01:05:25]  And it's funny.
[01:05:26]  I've only seen the game twice.
[01:05:28]  I saw it maybe just before COVID.
[01:05:32]  I was doing a show on ESPN and they showed the game and I got to watch it.
[01:05:36]  And I never realized in the last 10 minutes, the Soviets only had about five or six shots on goal in the last 10 minutes of the game.
[01:05:46]  We really controlled the last 10 minutes.
[01:05:48]  And, you know, if you watch the movie Miracle, it's save, save, save, save.
[01:05:51]  It's like we weren't even out on the ice.
[01:05:52]  But when I saw the game, I realized how well we played when we had that lead four to three.
[01:05:58]  But it was a long, it was a long 10 minutes.
[01:06:00]  And, you know, you mentioned earlier about the USA, USA.
[01:06:05]  I believe that's where the USA chant started that we hear so often now.
[01:06:09]  It's, you know, at USA events was in Lake Placid.
[01:06:13]  And that whole building, the whole building chanting USA, USA, it was deafening.
[01:06:18]  But when you were on the ice, it's amazing you don't hear a thing.
[01:06:22]  All you hear is a teammate looking for a pass, a herd looking to change lines.
[01:06:26]  But when you sat on the bench, you could feel the energy in the building.
[01:06:31]  And then later, you know, you talked about the USA in the streets, people singing, God bless America, people singing the Star Spangled Banner as they were walking the streets of Lake Placid.
[01:06:43]  It was an incredible proud feeling and moment for our country, but clearly for us as players, realizing what that moment meant to so many people.
[01:06:55]  And as I said earlier, in so many different ways.
[01:06:58]  And we were part of it.
[01:06:59]  We were a big part of it.
[01:07:01]  And again, I think that's what makes our teammates and myself so proud of that moment was that it touched people's lives in such a positive way.
[01:07:10]  I'm such a sucker for these stories, Mike.
[01:07:12]  I had the chills for like mustard the past half hour.
[01:07:15]  Let's go to the moment because we finally managed to tie it up, came from behind, tied it up 3-3.
[01:07:21]  And again, it's like against this impossible team with this sort of, you know, group of rug rat guys, you know, from middle of nowhere, then East Coast, but like working class and didn't, nobody born with a silver spoon working together, making it happen against men.
[01:07:35]  It's like boys against men.
[01:07:36]  You know, the Russians were older and they were professional and they were scary and they never smiled.
[01:07:41]  And so it's 3-3 and Mike Aruzzioni gets the puck and manages to score a goal.
[01:07:49]  And I know you didn't know you had scored.
[01:07:53]  You didn't know it had gone into the net.
[01:07:54]  So how'd you figure it out?
[01:07:56]  I saw the, when the, but I had the puck on my stick.
[01:07:59]  It's amazing how many things can go through your mind in a split second.
[01:08:03]  And I'm not the smartest guy in the world.
[01:08:05]  So the puck came to me and I had two options.
[01:08:08]  There was a defenseman in front of me.
[01:08:10]  If he came at me, I was going to pass it by him because David Christian and Neil Brock, Billy Baker and John Harrington were breaking to the net on my left.
[01:08:18]  And if he stayed, I was going to use him as a screen.
[01:08:20]  He stayed.
[01:08:21]  And when it left my stick, I thought it was in, but I thought I might have pulled it a little because I was going across my body.
[01:08:28]  But then when it in, I saw the crowd behind the goalie jump up in the air.
[01:08:33]  And that's when I knew it went in because I didn't see it go in because of the defenseman in front of me.
[01:08:37]  But I saw the people behind the net jump up.
[01:08:41]  And then I went, oh, okay, that went in.
[01:08:44]  We have the lead four to three right now.
[01:08:46]  So that's kind of how I looked at it.
[01:08:48]  We had the lead.
[01:08:49]  And I've said it, and I'll say it enough.
[01:08:53]  If it wasn't for Mark Johnson, he scored two goals in the game.
[01:08:56]  It put us in that position.
[01:08:58]  So like any team, you know, you try to help out your teammates when you can.
[01:09:02]  And I was given an opportunity to get a chance to score a goal.
[01:09:06]  And I did.
[01:09:06]  And it gave us the lead.
[01:09:08]  And that's kind of how I looked at it until the game was over.
[01:09:11]  I kind of sat back and thought, wow, we won and I got the winning goal.
[01:09:15]  That's kind of as it turns out, that was the winning goal.
[01:09:18]  But as you point out, they're all the winning goal.
[01:09:21]  We had that moment when you scored it on tape and we butted it together with the famous Al Michaels call as the time ticked down and we got to the end of the game, the end of those interminable 10 minutes that has now become so iconic.
[01:09:38]  Let's listen.
[01:09:40]  U.S. team is depending a little bit too much now on Jim Craig.
[01:09:43]  He's making too many good saves.
[01:09:44]  Aruzioni!
[01:09:53]  11 seconds.
[01:09:54]  You've got 10 seconds.
[01:09:55]  The countdown going on right now.
[01:09:57]  Morrow up to show.
[01:09:59]  Five seconds left in the game.
[01:10:01]  You believe it, Miracles.
[01:10:02]  Yes!
[01:10:03]  Unbelievable.
[01:10:10]  My God, that brings tears to my eyes now.
[01:10:12]  How does that affect you watching it?
[01:10:15]  It's just a great feeling.
[01:10:16]  It's a very proud moment, a proud feeling.
[01:10:19]  You know, I know it was 42 years ago and life has moved on, but I guess when you can look back on your life and realize you were part of a moment like that, that, as I said, and I've said it many times over the years, touched people's lives in such a good way.
[01:10:32]  Clearly, it was a big moment for me and my family.
[01:10:35]  And more importantly, it was a special moment for my teammates.
[01:10:39]  And realizing now, 42 years later, it was a special moment in our country that we needed something.

=== A Proud Moment for Teammates (07:34) ===

[01:10:47]  And here we are, a bunch of young kids doing something so special.
[01:10:51]  And again, I always take great pride in that.
[01:10:54]  It reminds me of Mary Lou Retton told a story of, you know, she, of course, the Olympic gymnast.
[01:10:59]  And I want to say it was the 1980 summer game.
[01:11:04]  Wait, could that be?
[01:11:05]  It was 84.
[01:11:06]  84.
[01:11:07]  Okay, that makes more sense.
[01:11:09]  And she pulled it out and she was amazing.
[01:11:10]  And she landed this landing and it was perfection.
[01:11:13]  And I remember hearing the story of an old woman who said to her, You gave us quite a moment, dear.
[01:11:21]  And that's that's what you guys did.
[01:11:23]  You know, you gave us quite a moment, dear.
[01:11:27]  And back at home in Massachusetts, Winthrop, Massachusetts, they were having quite a moment too.
[01:11:32]  So what was happening?
[01:11:34]  How did your family, Jeep, how did everybody consume the game?
[01:11:37]  And your old coach, your football coach, all those guys, what were they doing?
[01:11:41]  Well, they were actually, my dad was in Lake Placid with my mom.
[01:11:45]  And my football coach was there with my cousin and some friends.
[01:11:48]  They rented a Winnebago and drove to Lake Placid and stayed at the campground not far from the Olympic stadiums.
[01:11:57]  Actually, even the night before the Soviet game, I had a state police officer drove me to the campsite where they were staying.
[01:12:02]  And I had a few bears with my dad and my cousin and my coach and my high school coach and my mom.
[01:12:07]  And I just, you know, kind of relaxed a little the night before the game.
[01:12:11]  And state trooper drove me back to the Olympic village.
[01:12:14]  But they were at the game and just enjoyed it.
[01:12:18]  My brothers and sisters were home for the this was the Soviet game.
[01:12:23]  My brothers and sisters were home.
[01:12:25]  But the Finland game, my uncle Tony, got a car, his car, and drove to watch us play against Finland.
[01:12:32]  And they found their way in the building.
[01:12:34]  They found tickets.
[01:12:36]  I think they told them who they were.
[01:12:37]  My brother, my uncle, my cousin drove from, and a friend drove from Winthrop to Lake Placid to watch the Finland game.
[01:12:45]  But all my sisters and aunts and uncles were in my house or in our house in my apartment with my parents, where I lived.
[01:12:52]  They were watching the game on television.
[01:12:54]  And I remember my sister telling me after we beat Finland to win the gold medal, people showed up in front of my house from my hometown singing the Star-Spangled Banner, waving the flag, waving an American flag in front of my house.
[01:13:07]  And my sister had to come out onto the porch and just, you know, thank everybody and tell them, okay, you know, we're going to bed.
[01:13:14]  It's time to leave.
[01:13:16]  So it was just, again, one of those moments.
[01:13:18]  I guess I'm glad I was in Lake Placid, but it would have been really fun to be at my house.
[01:13:24]  And I remember, and, you know, we win the gold medal on Sunday.
[01:13:29]  Monday, we go to the White House to meet the president.
[01:13:32]  And Monday afternoon, I'm flying home on South Wongo, it was Eastern Airlines with me, James Silk, and Jack O'Callaghan flying back to Boston.
[01:13:42]  Jimmy had gone to Atlanta to sign with the Brave, with the teams.
[01:13:47]  And the three of us were going back to our hometown.
[01:13:50]  And I remember getting in a car and driving from my house, from the airport to Winthrop, which is only about a 15-minute ride, 10-minute ride.
[01:13:57]  And the streets were lined with people waving flags.
[01:14:01]  And I'm like, wow, this is a big deal.
[01:14:03]  This is amazing.
[01:14:04]  And then I crossed the bridge into my hometown and went to a small little peninsula town of about 18,000 people.
[01:14:10]  And it had to be 10,000 people at the bridge to meet me.
[01:14:14]  And then I went to my house and I remember being on the second floor of my house with my parents and my sisters and brothers and aunts and uncles and cousins.
[01:14:24]  We were all there celebrating this incredible moment.
[01:14:27]  And next thing I found out, people were in front of my house, the street.
[01:14:30]  They had state, they had the local police blocking the street off.
[01:14:34]  Um, for traffic and people were out there and they were waving flags and singing the anthem and I went out onto the porch.
[01:14:41]  I felt like the Pope, I was kind of waving to everybody and then I said look, I just got home, I want to spend some time with my family, can everybody just kind of leave?
[01:14:49]  And they left, they all just dispersed.
[01:14:52]  And I remember going to bed at, waking up the next morning and my mother's making me breakfast because I was had to go to New York to do Good Morning America.
[01:15:00]  And i'm like what just happened?
[01:15:02]  You know, you win a gold medal on sunday.
[01:15:05]  Monday, i'm at the White House.
[01:15:07]  Monday night, i'm having dinner at home.
[01:15:08]  Tuesday morning, I wake up in my own bed.
[01:15:10]  It was like, did this just happen?
[01:15:13]  It was really kind of eerie um, but it was an incredible moment.
[01:15:17]  When you went to the gold medal ceremony before leaving Lake Placid uh, you gave us another moment dear, and uh, it was young Michael Ruzione not having been up on the gold medal stand before and inviting the entire team to go up there and somehow yet another feat was managed.
[01:15:39]  I think Al Michael was like that was.
[01:15:40]  That was also amazing.
[01:15:41]  Like how did we get all of our 20 hockey players up on the podium.
[01:15:45]  Um, hold on, I think we have that.
[01:15:46]  Do we have that?
[01:15:47]  That's a sound bite.
[01:15:48]  Uh yes, we do.
[01:15:50]  Number two, let's watch.
[01:15:57]  What a moment, bro.
[01:15:58]  The crowd didn't want to go home today, they just didn't want to.
[01:16:02]  That man right there, I think symbolizing this entire hockey team, the team captain, 25 years old Michael, and he called his guys back up there.
[01:16:13]  He didn't want to be there by himself.
[01:16:15]  That's amazing and for the listening audience, you see Mike standing there by himself, wearing the gold medal, vehemently saying to the team, get up here, come over here, and they all run and they storm the podium with you and it's just the same thing that you've been saying 42 years later.
[01:16:30]  It wasn't just me, it was the whole team, it was a team effort from the beginning straight through.
[01:16:35]  You know, you guys came together and then you know not to bring the room down, but then it ends.
[01:16:43]  Then it yeah, it ends.
[01:16:45]  And there's got to be like so much emotion behind the ending too Mike yeah, you know, when we were on the plane flying back to Boston uh Dave silk, me and Jack, and we were in first class.
[01:16:58]  I think that's the first time i've ever flown first class in my life and Silky had kind of tears in his eyes and I I looked, I said Silky, what's wrong?
[01:17:05]  And he looked at me and he goes, it's over, it's ended, and it.
[01:17:10]  That's when it kind of dawned on me that it was.
[01:17:12]  We weren't going to see each other the next day at practice.
[01:17:15]  We weren't going to see each other for months at a you know who who even knew if we'd run into each other.
[01:17:21]  I got a chance to see the guys because I was doing broadcasting and traveling quite a bit around the country so i'd be in cities where they were playing, because a lot of the guys turned pro and went to the National Hockey League.
[01:17:30]  Some guys went to Europe and but it was, it was Silky was right, it's over, it ended.
[01:17:36]  And uh, that was hard, that was hard for us because definitely we you live together for six months and practice and you know train and get on buses and planes and uh, that's all you knew.
[01:17:48]  And now you know, like I said i'm, i'm home in my own house, my mother making me breakfast.
[01:17:53]  It was like wow, what just happened.
[01:17:55]  Yeah, it's got to be tough, it's got to be emotionally a letdown, I mean a come down, I guess and um, I don't know, just beginnings, endings.
[01:18:04]  Somebody was asking me the other day what, what makes you cry?
[01:18:07]  And I tell you almost always endings, endings of things you know, because it's just a marker of the passage of time, it gets you thinking more existentially, and especially endings of wonderful things.
[01:18:18]  Those are the hardest.
[01:18:19]  Those are the hardest ones I want people to know.

=== How Sports Have Changed and Grown (08:57) ===

[01:18:21]  Um, at the at the end of the 20th century, Sports Illustrated took a look back at the previous hundred years and came up with the top sports moments.
[01:18:32]  The top moments in sports history.
[01:18:35]  Uh, number five, Muhammad Ali defeats Joe Frasier.
[01:18:40]  Uh, in the thriller in Manila 1975, for the greatest game ever played.
[01:18:46]  The Baltimore Colts defeat the NEW YORK Giants in the first Nfl championship to go into sudden death overtime, 1950.
[01:18:53]  Uh, looks like six or eight, can't read my own writing.
[01:18:56]  Number three, Jesse Owens wins four gold medals in track and field at the Berlin Olympics, 1936.
[01:19:01]  Number two, Jackie Robinson breaks Major league baseball's color barrier, april 15th 1947.
[01:19:08]  And the number one moment in sports history, the miracle on ice, the United States defeats the Soviet Soviets in hockey at the Lake Placid, Winter Olympics, february 22nd 1980.
[01:19:23]  What happened after that?
[01:19:25]  What did the players go on to do?
[01:19:26]  What's Mike's life been like since then and what does he think about the current uh resumption of tension between the United States and Russia?
[01:19:37]  So Mike, is it true that we have not won a gold medal in hockey ever since that moment?
[01:19:44]  Yeah, we haven't.
[01:19:44]  We've been close.
[01:19:46]  Um, we've got great players.
[01:19:48]  I mean we're.
[01:19:48]  I would love to have seen the pros this year in the in the uh in the Olympic Games.
[01:19:53]  Unfortunately they they didn't go but um, we're gonna get one sooner or later.
[01:19:57]  I I I hope so.
[01:19:59]  Um, it's not gonna change anything that we did.
[01:20:01]  I tell people we're not like the Miami Dolphins of 72 that don't want to see an undefeated team.
[01:20:06]  We want gold medals.
[01:20:08]  I want to see our men and our women win gold medals.
[01:20:10]  It just shows the growth of the sport and we're good.
[01:20:13]  I mean, we got some talented.
[01:20:15]  Who's winning all the gold?
[01:20:15]  Is it the Russians again, or who is it?
[01:20:18]  Uh, Finland won it this year and the first time.
[01:20:20]  I think they.
[01:20:20]  It might have been the first time they've ever won a gold medal.
[01:20:23]  So congratulations to them.
[01:20:24]  But the Soviets are still uh, you know someone to deal With, but, you know, in 1980, the Soviets were one country.
[01:20:31]  So they had a variety of players to choose from.
[01:20:34]  Now it's broken up into so many different areas.
[01:20:36]  So they're not as powerful as they used to be, but they're still one of the favorites, as well as obviously, you know, Canada and Sweden.
[01:20:43]  And the growth of the sport is incredible in all countries.
[01:20:48]  But clearly, I think the biggest step of any country that has been made is the United States.
[01:20:54]  We've got some talented, great young players that play the game now, and it's fun to watch.
[01:20:59]  So, how do you think the miracle on ice changed American hockey?
[01:21:05]  Well, I've said this before.
[01:21:07]  I think it gave the National Hockey League finally got to look at Americans as well as college players could play.
[01:21:15]  You know, prior to 1980, you know, U.S. players and college players really weren't given the opportunity, I believe, in the National Hockey League.
[01:21:22]  I'll go back to the 1960 team.
[01:21:24]  They had a guy named Bill Cleary and John Mayasich out of Minnesota who are unbelievable players.
[01:21:29]  Never got a chance to play in the National Hockey League.
[01:21:31]  And I think partly because they were Americans and it was the Canadian game, but now it's changed.
[01:21:38]  And I think, you know, I think in 1980, we opened the door, but today's players have clearly knocked it down.
[01:21:45]  Not only are men, our women as well.
[01:21:47]  You watch women's hockey, the growth of that sport and how talented these young ladies are and how good they are.
[01:21:53]  And again, the men that are playing the game.
[01:21:55]  You know, when I played, you were from Michigan, Massachusetts, Minnesota.
[01:21:59]  Now you're from Texas, you're from California.
[01:22:02]  Austin Matthews, maybe one of the best Americans in the game is from Phoenix, Arizona.
[01:22:07]  Players are coming out of Florida.
[01:22:08]  St. Louis is producing some great players.
[01:22:12]  So the game has grown and changed.
[01:22:14]  They're bigger, they're faster, they're stronger.
[01:22:17]  Someone asked me the other day how the 80 Olympic team would do today against the professional players.
[01:22:23]  And I said, we'd get killed.
[01:22:25]  And I'm 67 years old.
[01:22:26]  I can't play anymore.
[01:22:28]  But that team that we played on in 1980 started the growth of the sport.
[01:22:34]  But today's players, like I said, guys who played in 84, 88, 92, today's players, they're better, they're bigger, they're faster.
[01:22:42]  And it's great to watch the growth.
[01:22:45]  A lot of the team did go on to play for the NHL.
[01:22:49]  You mentioned Jim Craig.
[01:22:51]  He was this amazing goalie, but many of them did.
[01:22:55]  Could you have, first of all, could you, do you think you could have?
[01:22:59]  And second of all, why didn't you?
[01:23:01]  I think I could have played.
[01:23:03]  I thought about it.
[01:23:04]  I had some offers from the Rangers, the Minnesota North Stars at the time, I think they were.
[01:23:09]  And then the Buffalo Sabres had offered me contracts.
[01:23:13]  But I thought it was time to move on.
[01:23:15]  You know, I would have been a good player.
[01:23:17]  I think I would have been an average player, probably three to four-year player, four-year career, which is probably it for the average player.
[01:23:22]  I think I would have been a good teammate.
[01:23:24]  I think I would have been a good guy in the locker room, a good guy in the community, somebody that I think my teammates would like to have had me on the team.
[01:23:32]  But, you know, again, it's not like today.
[01:23:34]  They didn't say here's 50 million.
[01:23:38]  I think I'll play.
[01:23:40]  But to me, peace of mind.
[01:23:42]  You know, my dad always told me when I was playing, there's more to life than athletics.
[01:23:46]  And at some point, the game ends.
[01:23:49]  And I decided at 25, it was time to move on and do something else.
[01:23:52]  And I didn't know what I was going to do.
[01:23:54]  I was going to coach and teach.
[01:23:55]  I was a phys ed major at Boston University.
[01:23:58]  And that was what I wanted to do: meet a coach and a teacher.
[01:24:00]  And then I found out this Olympic thing was a pretty big deal.
[01:24:03]  So my life took a different turn in many ways.
[01:24:09]  But I would have been very happy coaching and teaching.
[01:24:12]  And obviously things went in a different direction for me.
[01:24:16]  And I'm doing a variety of different things.
[01:24:18]  I still do a lot of motivational speaking.
[01:24:20]  I've been working at Boston University now 28 years.
[01:24:24]  Have a great opportunity to work at a great school with some great student athletes and students as well.
[01:24:30]  Got to play a little more golf than I ever would have thought because I didn't play golf until after the Olympics.
[01:24:34]  So, you know, things, things have been great.
[01:24:36]  And I wouldn't change anything, you know, win or lose.
[01:24:41]  I'm still living in the town that I grew up in.
[01:24:44]  I've been with my wife for now 38 years, married.
[01:24:47]  We dated for 10 or 12 before.
[01:24:49]  So, you know, she kind of knows my act.
[01:24:51]  She grew up four houses from me.
[01:24:54]  And, you know, I never thought an athletic event should change who you are as a person.
[01:24:59]  It's clearly given me opportunities to do things I never would have ever done, but it's important that it hasn't changed me.
[01:25:06]  And I'm very happy with who I am and what I've done over the last 42 years.
[01:25:11]  What do you make about the amount of money now in sports?
[01:25:15]  You know, we were talking to my husband about it.
[01:25:18]  We love to watch like the March Madness, you know, the NCAA Final Four.
[01:25:23]  So fun.
[01:25:24]  Not so much when you watch the professional NBA.
[01:25:27]  It's like, you know, they're all gazillionaires.
[01:25:29]  They just don't seem to have the same excitement for the game or, you know, just the same gusto that the college players have.
[01:25:36]  You could see they really want it.
[01:25:38]  I don't know.
[01:25:39]  Somehow I feel like money, that amount of money in sports can be, if not corrupting, it can just sort of cast a pall over the game for the spectators.
[01:25:49]  Yeah, I think it's clearly changed.
[01:25:51]  I think people see, you know, athletes making multiple, you know, 10 million a year, 20 million a year.
[01:25:57]  It's, I guess, disheartening to that working class guy or girl that gets up in the morning and works nine to five and tries to make a living.
[01:26:05]  But, you know, that's the sport we're in, that people pay to play.
[01:26:08]  People pay to watch them play.
[01:26:11]  They're clearly making money.
[01:26:12]  Owners are making money.
[01:26:13]  And, you know, that's the American way.
[01:26:16]  It's just the way it is.
[01:26:18]  Man, I can't begrudge anybody a salary that somebody wants to give them millions of dollars.
[01:26:22]  It's just as a spectator, I feel like, eh, I don't know.
[01:26:25]  I feel like you can see the gusto go out of the sport.
[01:26:31]  I don't, I don't, I'm not a sporting event guy.
[01:26:34]  You're more apt to find me down the golf club watching the game on TV than you are at an event.
[01:26:39]  I enjoy that aspect of watching it versus going to a stadium and sitting, you know, eight miles away from the field and try to watch what's going on.
[01:26:47]  But people go and people support their teams and that's great to see.
[01:26:51]  But it's, again, it's just the way it is.
[01:26:53]  And these athletes, good luck to them.
[01:26:56]  I hope they do the right thing with their money they're making.
[01:26:58]  I hope they're good people.
[01:27:00]  I hope they're good neighbors.
[01:27:01]  They're good friends.
[01:27:02]  They give back.
[01:27:02]  Hopefully these athletes that make this money give back to their community or to various charitable organizations.
[01:27:08]  I think it's important to do that, to help others.
[01:27:11]  And, you know, good for them.
[01:27:14]  And that's just the business they're in.
[01:27:16]  And they're awfully good at it and they're getting paid for it.

=== Remembering a Generational Coach (02:07) ===

[01:27:19]  So I know post the big win, you introduced Ronald Reagan at a banquet.
[01:27:25]  You went over to Frank Sinatra's house and met with him and Tony Bennett.
[01:27:30]  You had the chance to rub a lot of celebrity elbows, but as you say, decided to live your life humbly with your family in your hometown, assistant coach and coaching.
[01:27:42]  Herb Brooks, gone too soon, is so sad that he died too young in a car accident.
[01:27:50]  He went on to become the coach of the Rangers in 1981, but he died in a car accident when his truck, his minivan swerved across a highway in Minnesota and rolled over, killing him at just 66 years old.
[01:28:04]  You write in your book that his funeral held at the Cathedral of St. Paul, 2,500 people came to say goodbye, players, coaches, trainers, managers, college, high school, the NHL, and so on, international hockey, even the Olympics, of course.
[01:28:17]  And as the movie said, miracle, at the end, it ended with Coach Herb Brooks died before seeing the movie.
[01:28:25]  The film was dedicated to him with the following quote.
[01:28:28]  He never saw it.
[01:28:29]  He lived it.
[01:28:31]  So what do you make of Herb Brooks now with the benefit of all this time gone and his impact on the sport?
[01:28:39]  Well, I think clearly, you know, he was a generational coach.
[01:28:43]  I mean, what he did in 1980.
[01:28:46]  The players are playing that way today.
[01:28:48]  The style of hockey that we played in 1980 was new to everybody.
[01:28:52]  It was something that nobody even thought the United States could play that style, which is a European game, which is a very different style without getting into the whole thing.
[01:29:02]  But Herb was creative.
[01:29:03]  Herb was brilliant.
[01:29:06]  He was a great coach.
[01:29:07]  He was a great motivator.
[01:29:09]  He was a great man.
[01:29:10]  He was a great father, great grandfather.
[01:29:13]  People had tremendous respect for Herb, as we as a team did.
[01:29:16]  And he was so innovative.
[01:29:19]  Like I said, he was ahead of his time.
[01:29:23]  He lost a great coach and a great person.
[01:29:25]  What do you think about now?

=== Taking a Stance on Patriotism (06:05) ===

[01:29:27]  I mean, now we're involved in this.
[01:29:29]  We're not directly involved, but we're obviously arming the Ukrainians in the Cold War, which ended, has come back in some form.
[01:29:38]  I mean, it's a hot war between Russia and Ukraine, but obviously we're having tensions again as well.
[01:29:42]  And the American people are trying to size up the Russian people and understand whether they're behind Putin or they're not.
[01:29:47]  What do you, how does it remind you, if at all, of what we went through back then?
[01:29:51]  It's the most frustrating, mind-boggling thing that I watch.
[01:29:56]  I'm not a real political guy.
[01:29:57]  I mean, I do follow politics.
[01:29:59]  I got involved already and got in trouble just by knowing President Trump, which is another story.
[01:30:07]  You got up on a stage.
[01:30:08]  He asked you to go up on a stage at a rally.
[01:30:10]  You guys were there for something else and you guys did it.
[01:30:13]  And then everybody's like, you looked, you're Trump supporters.
[01:30:15]  You're like, we're being good sports.
[01:30:16]  And of course, you can't have anything to do with Trump.
[01:30:18]  Oh, it was absolutely the hate mail, the letters I got, the phone calls I received, it was mind-boggling to me.
[01:30:25]  Whether you like the president or don't like the president, he's the president.
[01:30:27]  You support him, as we're doing now with President Biden, who I know very well.
[01:30:33]  I was with him for a week at the Olympic Games in Vancouver when he was the vice president.
[01:30:38]  But this whole thing, what's going on, I just can't fathom the world, not just the United States, the world letting this happen, letting these innocent people die, young kids, young boys, young girls, just walk in the streets, a bomb goes off.
[01:30:56]  I don't get it.
[01:30:57]  I don't understand it.
[01:30:58]  I can't see that people are allowing this to happen.
[01:31:02]  It's frustrating.
[01:31:03]  It's embarrassing.
[01:31:07]  You get a little pissed off that we're allowing this to happen, not just the United States.
[01:31:12]  And I know we're helping, we're trying, but everybody else to end this thing, stop this thing.
[01:31:17]  This is the 20th century.
[01:31:19]  This stuff shouldn't be going on.
[01:31:20]  I don't get it.
[01:31:21]  21st now.
[01:31:23]  Don't understand it.
[01:31:24]  I never will.
[01:31:25]  You know, the feeling in the country has changed when it comes not just to the Russians, but to America.
[01:31:32]  And the feeling of patriotism that you guys helped us enjoy has dissipated too.
[01:31:39]  Here's just one poll by Axios.
[01:31:43]  It was done last year, July of 2021.
[01:31:46]  63% of Americans say they would feel a very positive reaction if they saw the American flag displayed.
[01:31:52]  63%.
[01:31:53]  Of those, they break it down by age.
[01:31:56]  Over 70% of over 45-year-olds would feel very positive, but just 39% of 18 to 24-year-olds feel very positive when they see the flag.
[01:32:06]  And we see that reflected in lots of, in lots of polls.
[01:32:09]  just a waning patriotism and this belief that America, instead of being uniquely special, might actually be uniquely awful.
[01:32:18]  What do you make of it?
[01:32:20]  That's, again, I can use the word embarrassing.
[01:32:22]  People feel that way.
[01:32:24]  You know, again, I'm old school.
[01:32:25]  You know, my dad was a Marine.
[01:32:28]  My uncle Tony won a Silver Star.
[01:32:31]  My son's a fireman.
[01:32:32]  My son-in-law is a police officer.
[01:32:34]  My nephew is a U.S. Marshal.
[01:32:37]  You know, my daughter's a social worker.
[01:32:40]  I have relatives who are teachers, educators, firemen, policemen.
[01:32:45]  I take great pride in that.
[01:32:47]  And it frustrates me.
[01:32:49]  Go live somewhere else.
[01:32:51]  If you don't like it here, go somewhere else and live.
[01:32:53]  This is the greatest country in the world.
[01:32:54]  And yeah, we get challenges and there are things that we have to deal with and face, but I'd rather do it here and live in this country than try to do it somewhere else.
[01:33:05]  So to those people who don't respect the flag, who don't respect our anthem, if you don't like it, like I said, go somewhere else to live.
[01:33:14]  And I'm sure somebody's going to send me a letter and say, you know, freedom, you get to say what you want.
[01:33:18]  And I get it.
[01:33:19]  I understand it.
[01:33:20]  But sometimes I think you got to take a stance.
[01:33:23]  And to me, that stance is, this is the greatest country in the world.
[01:33:27]  And so many people get unbelievable opportunities that we live here.
[01:33:31]  We're going to have challenges.
[01:33:33]  Not everybody's going to get along.
[01:33:34]  That's life.
[01:33:35]  It works that way.
[01:33:36]  But respect people, respect their opinions.
[01:33:40]  I get a lot of friends that I don't agree with all the time, but they're still my friends because I respect who they are and what they're about.
[01:33:47]  And I think we've lost that value.
[01:33:48]  I think we've lost sight of how important it is to respect people and who they are and what they are.
[01:33:55]  And like I said to you earlier, you put a USA jersey on, there's no greater feeling in the world.
[01:34:00]  It's not Boston.
[01:34:01]  It's not Chicago.
[01:34:02]  It's not a World Series or a Super Bowl.
[01:34:04]  You put a jersey on, it says USA across the front.
[01:34:06]  You're representing your country.
[01:34:07]  And that's the ultimate honor I think you can get.
[01:34:11]  It's frustrating that people don't see that sometimes, but I clearly do.
[01:34:15]  And I get a little frustrated by people and their reactions.
[01:34:18]  And like I said, when we did that with President Trump, we have tremendous respect for the president and the office of the presidency.
[01:34:26]  Whether you like him or don't like him is irrelevant.
[01:34:28]  He's in charge.
[01:34:29]  He's the guy that we look forward to, that we look towards, that we voted for.
[01:34:34]  So whether you voted for him or didn't vote for him, Joe Biden or didn't vote for Joe Biden, he's in charge.
[01:34:38]  He's the president.
[01:34:39]  Respect the office and respect our flag and respect our anthem.
[01:34:43]  That's what I'm all about.
[01:34:44]  And you can agree or disagree.
[01:34:47]  That's fine.
[01:34:48]  I respect your opinion, but that's not the way I was brought up and the things and the values that my parents taught me.
[01:34:56]  Mic Aruzzioni, it was no miracle, but it was indeed a moment.
[01:35:01]  And I know I speak on behalf of millions when I say thank you.
[01:35:04]  Thank you for it.
[01:35:05]  Thank you for living the values that you've discussed and for always being willing to remind us of what made that team and what made that moment so special and how it went beyond the hockey sticks.
[01:35:15]  It went to what was in your hearts and what was in your character.
[01:35:18]  It's an honor to meet you.
[01:35:19]  Thank you for being here.
[01:35:21]  Thank you for having me on and enjoy the rest of the show or the day or whatever is going on.
[01:35:27]  But thank you for having me.
[01:35:28]  That was fun.
[01:35:29]  All the best.
[01:35:30]  Listen, thank you for joining us today.

=== Thank You for Living Those Values (00:29) ===

[01:35:32]  Really enjoyed meeting him.
[01:35:33]  Tomorrow, we're going to have some interesting guests here, including Peter Schweitzer, who literally wrote the book on how American elites get rich, helping China win.
[01:35:45]  Lots to discuss.
[01:35:46]  And then in the meantime, go ahead and download the show on Apple, Pandora, Spotify, and Stitcher and subscribe if you wouldn't mind at youtube.com slash Megan Kelly.
[01:35:54]  Thanks for listening.
[01:35:54]  You guys, we'll see you tomorrow.
[01:35:57]  Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.
[01:36:00]  No BS, no agenda, and no