The Megyn Kelly Show - 20220204_zucker-advising-cuomo-olympics-propaganda-and-canc
Aired: 2022-02-04
Duration: 01:37:13


=== New Report Debunks Affair Timeline (15:07) ===

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[00:00:35]  Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.
[00:00:47]  Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly.
[00:00:48]  Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show and happy Friday.
[00:00:50]  Wow, do we have some news for you?
[00:00:53]  In just a minute, the Olympics are underway in China and NBC is struggling to balance covering the humanitarian atrocities with ice skating results.
[00:01:00]  So fun.
[00:01:01]  We'll get to that later with two great guests.
[00:01:03]  But first, new bombshells.
[00:01:06]  Continuing to be uncovered into the real reason CNN's president Jeff Zucker resigned from CNN before he could be fired.
[00:01:13]  We knew that it couldn't just be about the affair he was having with a subordinate that pretty much everyone in media knew about for years.
[00:01:20]  And now some more color to the real reasons is coming out.
[00:01:24]  Remember Andrew Cuomo's infamous interviews on CNN with his brother at the height of the pandemic?
[00:01:29]  Well, it turns out Zucker and his girlfriend, Allison Gollist, an executive vice president of CNN, were not only personally booking.
[00:01:37]  Andrew Cuomo's appearances, they were coaching the governor on his messaging as well.
[00:01:43]  And as for those claims that the relationship between the two of them only began during COVID, well, my next guest has a new report out now saying that is, in the words of her sources, and I quote, total bullshit.
[00:01:57]  Joining me now, the reporter who has uncovered these new details, Tatiana Siegel, editor at large at The Ankler and senior writer at Rolling Stone.
[00:02:05]  Tatiana, thanks so much for being here.
[00:02:08]  Thanks for having me.
[00:02:09]  Okay, so let's start with that.
[00:02:12]  The piece opens up with the claim by both Jeff Zucker and Allison Gullis that their relationship only developed during COVID, quote, recently, or Jeff Zucker said, a quote, evolved in recent years.
[00:02:27]  And your sources are telling you what?
[00:02:29]  Total bullshit, if I'm allowed to swear on your show.
[00:02:33]  Yeah, I think that was met with a.
[00:02:39]  At least according to my sources, with a resounding, like, who are they kidding?
[00:02:46]  And you are reporting that the relationship actually began in 1996?
[00:02:53]  Yes.
[00:02:54]  Back at, she was a trainee in the communications pool at NBC, and he was the executive producer of the Today Show back in the Matt Lauer era.
[00:03:09]  And She leapfrogged very quickly within a year to the top PR position on that show.
[00:03:19]  So, within one year, she went from trainee to senior publicist for the Today Show.
[00:03:24]  Yeah, it happens all the time, Megan.
[00:03:26]  Sure.
[00:03:27]  That's really easy to do.
[00:03:28]  And she must have been very young then.
[00:03:30]  I mean, in 1996, I was 25, and I think I'm older than she is.
[00:03:34]  So, she must have been in her young 20s.
[00:03:36]  Yeah, that sounds about right.
[00:03:40]  How is your sourcing, not asking you to reveal your sources, but how is your sourcing on this notion that they began an affair back then?
[00:03:49]  Without being too revealing, it was something, it wasn't just like an open secret, it was known.
[00:03:58]  By people because they interacted with them socially.
[00:04:03]  And it was, you know, like obviously there's been some criticism, like, well, how does anyone really know?
[00:04:10]  And yes, there is no sex tape that has emerged that I know of, but thank God for that.
[00:04:16]  Yeah, there, you know, it was known.
[00:04:21]  Okay, so 1996.
[00:04:22]  So, I mean, that would obviously put the lie to this claim that it just happened.
[00:04:26]  And of course, she moved into his building on Fifth Avenue where her apartment.
[00:04:32]  According to the listings I saw, she bought it for over $6 million.
[00:04:37]  Pretty hefty apartment for somebody who's working in PR.
[00:04:39]  I don't know what her family situation was, but she moved literally right above him.
[00:04:43]  And there she lived with her family for years, right above Jeff Zucker.
[00:04:48]  So then she goes after he leaves The Today Show.
[00:04:51]  Actually, before we leave NBC, how many times do you know was she promoted under Zucker?
[00:04:57]  Because he had moved up the ranks at NBC while she was there.
[00:04:59]  For nearly a decade, they worked together there.
[00:05:01]  So how many times did she move up the ladder?
[00:05:04]  Multiple times.
[00:05:05]  I can't give you an exact number, but she definitely kept adding oversight of different news shows and eventually was overseeing all of NBC News.
[00:05:20]  And then it became NBC itself and became his chief spokesperson.
[00:05:26]  And so she was, during that time, for at least a portion of it, was he in charge of her promotion, advancement, et cetera?
[00:05:34]  Yeah, and compensation.
[00:05:36]  You know, I think that's where some people are like, oh, it's consenting adults, who cares?
[00:05:41]  But, you know, this is somebody who's overseeing how much you're getting paid.
[00:05:48]  And it definitely has an eroding effect on the morale of any news organization and any workplace.
[00:05:57]  It can be alleged as corporate theft.
[00:05:59]  I mean, if you're paying her raises that she doesn't necessarily deserve because you're sleeping with her, It's basically asking the company to fund your affair, to keep your affair going, keep your affair partner happy.
[00:06:10]  And we've seen executives get in trouble for that in other circumstances.
[00:06:15]  Okay.
[00:06:15]  And I should mention they deny this, right?
[00:06:17]  They didn't respond to your reporting specifically, but of course they are saying it was just a COVID born romance.
[00:06:23]  Everything was, all ethical lapses are apparently excusable during COVID, Tatiana, just in case you didn't know, didn't get the memo.
[00:06:30]  Actually, he did respond.
[00:06:32]  She didn't, but he responded with, You know, something that actually did not deny the timeline that I presented.
[00:06:41]  And I can read you his exact.
[00:06:44]  Sure.
[00:06:45]  Let me find it.
[00:06:48]  All right.
[00:06:50]  Let's see.
[00:06:52]  Jeff resigned due to an undisclosed personal relationship.
[00:06:55]  WarnerMedia confirmed that it considers the matter of his resignation closed, which does not, you know.
[00:07:03]  That doesn't refute anything.
[00:07:05]  No, no, it doesn't.
[00:07:07]  And so we have all we have of.
[00:07:11]  Them and their version of their romance is the timeline that they created when they gave their two statements in the memo he gave on Wednesday.
[00:07:22]  So, why do you believe they were so?
[00:07:24]  Because then she went, he left, he got sort of pushed out of NBC and he wound up working for Katie Couric for a while on her daytime talk show and then ultimately landed at CNN.
[00:07:34]  And she, during that period, for some portion, worked for Andrew Cuomo as his commentary.
[00:07:39]  Yeah, which will become relevant later.
[00:07:42]  And then Jeff hires her at CNN, one of the first hires he makes when he goes over there.
[00:07:48]  And there they've been for another decade.
[00:07:50]  So, why do you think, before we move on, they chose to say this began only during COVID?
[00:07:58]  Honestly, it is the biggest head scratcher of all.
[00:08:01]  They could have established no timeline and just said, we have been engaged in a consensual affair and didn't report it.
[00:08:10]  But the establishing of the timeline to me is inexplicable.
[00:08:17]  I think there are clues in your reporting, which I've been thinking about because your reporting is a bombshell and it's got more details than I've seen anyplace else.
[00:08:25]  Because you report in there that the company, at least at some point, came to them and asked them, Previous to the Chris Cuomo allegations and dust up, are you two having an affair?
[00:08:37]  And they denied it, right?
[00:08:39]  They denied it.
[00:08:41]  Denied it repeatedly.
[00:08:42]  And I can tell you personally, as a reporter who has worked on this story, that I began my journey following their affair back in 2020, long before Chris Cuomo ever, you know, was fired and had his issues.
[00:09:01]  So I was looking into it.
[00:09:03]  At the time of there was a corporate restructuring at WarnerMedia.
[00:09:08]  And at the time, there was a new CEO, Jason Kalar, and he moved Allison out from under Jeff in the corporate reporting structure.
[00:09:21]  And I immediately called because my sourcing had said that it was possibly to do with the fact that everyone knew they were in a relationship, it had been investigated prior.
[00:09:36]  So I asked.
[00:09:38]  And I was referred to Allison herself, which I thought was a very awkward.
[00:09:45]  Yes.
[00:09:46]  And also, Jeff was in charge of human resources.
[00:09:50]  So, it just was a completely dysfunctional and awkward type of situation to, okay, let me go ask the two people who are involved in this.
[00:10:02]  That's actually really interesting.
[00:10:04]  As I understand it, over at ABC, their human resources department doesn't report.
[00:10:10]  To the CEO of News.
[00:10:12]  There's another executive to whom they report.
[00:10:15]  And that's smart.
[00:10:16]  If that's how they're doing it, that's what happened at Fox.
[00:10:19]  Roger was the CEO.
[00:10:22]  No one who was harassed by Roger was going to report him to HR, which he controlled, right?
[00:10:29]  And so it's not that anybody's alleging he was harassing Alison Gollist, but if you worked with Alison Gollist and you knew these two were rumored to be having an affair and you wanted to go say to HR, hey, I kind of feel like I've been passed over, even though I'm the worthy candidate.
[00:10:44]  You wouldn't do it because he was effectively overseeing and running HR.
[00:10:49]  Exactly.
[00:10:50]  And that was part of the restructuring, he wouldn't be part of the, he wouldn't be overseeing HR.
[00:10:57]  And at the time, he was only given 24 hours notice and he was livid, according to multiple sources at the time.
[00:11:07]  So at the same time, there was also a number of high profile CEOs in America who, or, you know, in the corporate world who were going down for the exact same type of Thing, a consensual affair with an underling.
[00:11:21]  So I, you know, it's like people will say consensual, consensual, but it's still something that at the time was leading to people being immediately dismissed.
[00:11:32]  I think in the case of McDonald's, you know, no severance.
[00:11:36]  So I had no issue whatsoever with pursuing this story.
[00:11:41]  Yeah.
[00:11:41]  And by the way, at the time you were doing that, on CNN's website as of 2019, there was a posting that read in part, in today's corporate world, especially in the wake of Me Too.
[00:11:53]  Boards are on high alert for anything that poses a reputational or financial risk to the company.
[00:11:58]  Being in a relationship with the boss will make others at the company suspect that favoritism is at play, and that will undercut the employee's professional accomplishments and reputation.
[00:12:08]  Okay, right.
[00:12:09]  Okay, so as I said the other day, clearly not directly approved by Jeff Zucker or Alison Gollist.
[00:12:14]  So, but back to your reporting.
[00:12:16]  So you have it that they were asked by WarnerMedia, are you two having an affair?
[00:12:23]  This is prior to Chris Cuomo even being fired.
[00:12:25]  There was nothing.
[00:12:26]  This is a long time prior.
[00:12:28]  And they denied it, which is yet another reason.
[00:12:31]  Why they would have a motivation to lie about when this affair began.
[00:12:36]  Because it's one thing to look at your employer and say, All right, I'm having a consensual affair with a staffer.
[00:12:42]  It's another to say, I lied to you, possibly repeatedly about it when you asked it, because that would be immediate grounds for termination.
[00:12:51]  Correct.
[00:12:52]  However, even in my reporting, I have that they were asked during COVID and prior to Chris's.
[00:13:03]  Firing.
[00:13:04]  Yes.
[00:13:04]  So, but, and so they had, even then, if they said no, then they lied, right?
[00:13:09]  So it's like, I don't know.
[00:13:10]  I think there's a reason they're pushing the timeline specifically to COVID.
[00:13:14]  It's one of the oddest things about their statements because if it's not true, there's no reason to mention it.
[00:13:19]  You're just digging a deeper hole.
[00:13:21]  But if it's not true and you're already on record with your employer once, twice, or more saying no, And that time period at all was pre COVID, then it sort of is your way out.
[00:13:33]  You're thinking, okay, those denials.
[00:13:36]  were pre COVID.
[00:13:37]  I'm going to say it happened after COVID and try to draw the timeline a bit later.
[00:13:41]  This is speculation, but your reporting is that it absolutely began prior to COVID and that their statements are a lie.
[00:13:49]  Yeah, two decades before COVID.
[00:13:51]  Jesus.
[00:13:53]  It's amazing that it remained a secret sort of for so long.
[00:13:57]  Okay, so now there's an investigation.
[00:13:58]  So now we get to Chris Cuomo and Chris Cuomo buddies up with his brother.
[00:14:05]  He starts, he violates the CNN policy with Jeff Zucker's blessing.
[00:14:09]  And puts his brother Andrew on the air when Andrew's becoming a star doing his daily press conferences during COVID.
[00:14:16]  And this piece of your reporting is probably the most important piece.
[00:14:19]  I mean, it's like all well and good.
[00:14:21]  People have affairs, whatever.
[00:14:22]  It was inappropriate.
[00:14:23]  But this really cuts to what's going on here.
[00:14:27]  What you've shown is that you're reporting that Jeff Zucker and Alison Gullis were far more involved in booking Andrew Cuomo, massaging Andrew Cuomo, and helping Andrew Cuomo than people knew.
[00:14:40]  Yes, yes.
[00:14:42]  And so if you have a problem internally with what Chris Cuomo did, you're going to have to also have a problem with what Jeff and Allison did because it's essentially the same.
[00:14:54]  You are, as a so called impartial news network, doing something to help a politician, which is not kosher.

=== CNN's Role in Booking Cuomo (14:51) ===

[00:15:07]  It's not kosher if it's at Fox, it's not kosher if it's at CNN, wherever.
[00:15:12]  It's like this is.
[00:15:13]  This is exactly what news organizations are not supposed to do, no matter how great the ratings are.
[00:15:20]  Right.
[00:15:20]  So they were, what specifically were they doing according to your sources?
[00:15:26]  Creating talking points for Governor Cuomo as he sparred daily with President Trump over COVID messaging.
[00:15:34]  At the time, it was like that back and forth of Trump saying whatever he was saying that New York was doing wrong.
[00:15:41]  And Cuomo was like, no, we're doing everything great.
[00:15:44]  And also at the time, It was all exclusive on CNN.
[00:15:49]  You were not seeing Andrew Cuomo appear on MSNBC or Fox News or anything else.
[00:15:56]  Right.
[00:15:56]  Well, that's important because I can add to this today because I've been on the phone all morning trying to shore up a couple of things.
[00:16:03]  And what I'm told is that the reason Andrew Cuomo was having the pressers at 11 30 in the morning is because that was best for CNN's schedule.
[00:16:11]  And they, Jeff Zucker and Alison Gollist, had helped, had coordinated with him to arrange it, had coached him on what to say, had given him one liners, and had actually made very clear to him if he went on another show or another network, that was going to be very bad for him.
[00:16:27]  It was going to be very bad for CNN.
[00:16:30]  Was going to be bad for Chris Cuomo.
[00:16:32]  And to me as a lawyer, that raises potential anti competitive concerns that might become relevant in a merger, Tatiana.
[00:16:39]  That might, if that were to be released and unearthed, it wouldn't look particularly good in the context of a merger in which CNN is trying to become even bigger and even more powerful.
[00:16:51]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:16:53]  And, you know, these are the kinds of things that right before a merger, The companies have to look very deeply into what, you know, conflicts of interest, any of these types of things.
[00:17:09]  So, yeah, I see it as like it's a Pandora's box that has been opened.
[00:17:14]  Right.
[00:17:15]  And it's one thing to have Chris Cuomo embarrassed as having helped his brother and talked to his brother's staff.
[00:17:21]  But it's quite another when you're Jeff Zucker and Alison Gullist, if that net's about to capture you and reveal all the help you gave to Governor Cuomo, all the interactions you had with his staff.
[00:17:33]  Over and over and over.
[00:17:35]  The very thing you fired this guy for and acted like you were indignant about, you yourself were doing for months.
[00:17:44]  And why?
[00:17:45]  In the name of ratings, in the name of making Andrew Cuomo a star.
[00:17:49]  They were talking about replacing Joe Biden on the presidential ticket with this guy for a while.
[00:17:54]  And CNN was there helping it happen.
[00:17:57]  Absolutely.
[00:17:58]  Yes.
[00:17:58]  And, you know, lots of talk about Andrew Cuomo's political future, sort of like being.
[00:18:04]  Teased during a CNN broadcast, like, whoa, this, you know, people really would love to see him be president of the United States.
[00:18:13]  So the whole thing looks orchestrated.
[00:18:16]  These two are behind the scenes trying to secure his bookings, trying to make sure he goes no place else, telling him when to hold the presser, how to hold the presser, how to respond to Trump.
[00:18:24]  Here's some good one liners for you that'll make you look good.
[00:18:27]  Oh, and then we're going to break company policy to put you on CNN, sit you with your brother, who we all know will not ask you any tough questions, and indeed, he.
[00:18:36]  He did not ask any and make you a star.
[00:18:41]  So that's the whole thing is a creation.
[00:18:44]  You know, Jeff Zucker helped create Trump with The Apprentice, and then he did it again with Andrew Cuomo and apparently just didn't want to be exposed as having done that.
[00:18:55]  Yeah.
[00:18:56]  And I think that's why Jeff Zucker did not want Chris Cuomo to be fired when he was.
[00:19:01]  And my sourcing says he pushed back, but he lost that battle.
[00:19:06]  And of course, he did what.
[00:19:07]  Yes.
[00:19:08]  And Jeff knew what would possibly come out of any really close look at Chris's situation.
[00:19:16]  And once you have an investigation looking into Chris's situation, you know, hold your breath, Jeff and Allison, because what will emerge is not going to be that dissimilar to what has been accused of with Chris.
[00:19:31]  Right.
[00:19:33]  The New York Post, I have to say, the editorial board, I think it was yesterday, had a piece that kind of nailed it.
[00:19:38]  And they were talking, you know, obviously they don't like the Cuomos and they don't really love CNN.
[00:19:42]  It's a Rupert Murdoch owned publication.
[00:19:45]  But they did have an interesting angle into the story.
[00:19:49]  And this is what they wrote Jeff Sucker's out at CNN for failing to disclose a consensual relationship with a subordinate.
[00:19:55]  Which means his crimes against journalism and the network's viewers will get swept under the rug.
[00:20:00]  Above all, his equally consensual but far less professional relations with now disgraced but then Governor Andrew Cuomo, a seething nest of conflicts of interest.
[00:20:10]  They go on to describe it, talking about how that crime, quote unquote crime, rehabilitated a politician who had signed the order putting, for example, COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the thing Janice Dean's been railing about, that they gave him the veneer.
[00:20:27]  Of not just credibility, but of they deified him at a time when a fair reporter would have been asking serious and skeptical questions about the policies he was enacting and why so many New Yorkers were dying, especially elderly, vulnerable New Yorkers.
[00:20:45]  And so when that circle closes around Zucker and Gaullist, they look a little less sweet, innocent, you know, like a less innocent, loving pair.
[00:20:58]  Then they do a scheming, conniving, politically driven pair that's lying about their affair and about how far into Governor Andrew Cuomo's antics they really were.
[00:21:09]  Yeah.
[00:21:10]  And don't forget, she worked for him for six months.
[00:21:12]  And so, you know, there should have been some sort of, you know, healthy distance between any coverage that CNN was doing with Andrew Cuomo, and there wasn't.
[00:21:26]  And it wasn't just Chris Cuomo to blame.
[00:21:29]  Chris Cuomo is reportedly threatening to sue.
[00:21:33]  Some reports say that there is a lawsuit.
[00:21:35]  There isn't one yet, but the threatening, if he doesn't get his $18 million that is owed to him under his deal, if he were fired without cause, they claim he was fired with cause.
[00:21:44]  This is one of his arguments.
[00:21:45]  What's cause?
[00:21:45]  I embarrass the company?
[00:21:46]  How about all these other people embarrass the company?
[00:21:48]  They're getting their money.
[00:21:49]  They were still employed when he was making the argument.
[00:21:51]  There's a report today in the Daily Mail saying he has settled for $9 million.
[00:21:55]  I'm told that's not true.
[00:21:57]  He hasn't yet settled.
[00:21:58]  And this could get even uglier because bear people.
[00:22:03]  Who are close to Andrew Cuomo, who are close to Chris Cuomo, who will know exactly what Jeff and Allison did, who I think the longer he twists on the vine are going to get closer and closer to coming out to the microphones.
[00:22:15]  What do you think?
[00:22:15]  Yeah.
[00:22:16]  And what do they have to lose?
[00:22:17]  I mean, they should come forward and people should talk and be open because sunshine is the best disinfectant.
[00:22:26]  And this is a news organization that has a global brand and footprint.
[00:22:32]  And, you know, it needs to be clear what happened here.
[00:22:36]  To the, you heard about the staff meeting at CNN yesterday.
[00:22:39]  They had a lot of talent standing up and saying, This is so wrong.
[00:22:43]  You know, you're letting the bad guy, meaning Chris Cuomo, win.
[00:22:46]  You know, he threatened to burn the place down on his way out.
[00:22:49]  Now he's doing it.
[00:22:49]  You had Allison Camerata on the air saying, This feels so unfair.
[00:22:54]  It's two adults, two executives in a consensual relationship.
[00:22:58]  The punishment doesn't fit the crime.
[00:23:01]  What did you think that was missing?
[00:23:03]  It was shocking to me, too.
[00:23:05]  Shocking.
[00:23:05]  Shocking that somebody would say that on the air.
[00:23:08]  I mean, I.
[00:23:09]  I don't know how anyone can look at this and have that sort of reaction.
[00:23:18]  But I have talked to a lot of people within CNN who do not have that reaction.
[00:23:25]  I think that they're sort of the loudest people, a small group, maybe a dozen people who are really, this is a tragedy.
[00:23:36]  This is just so unfair to Jeff and Allison to consenting adults.
[00:23:43]  But most people are absolutely on board with what has happened, which is like, no, he could not continue to, Jeff Zucker could not continue to work here.
[00:23:57]  Having done this.
[00:23:59]  That's right.
[00:23:59]  If he was coordinating with the Cuomo team to this extent, and she was too, my reporting is that she was on the phone with his staff every day during the pandemic about Cuomo, about getting him back on CNN, about what he should say, about how things should be handled, going above and beyond the staff, screaming matches with them because she wanted access to Andrew Cuomo directly, for whom she used to work and with whom she was said to still be close.
[00:24:23]  That is well beyond the behavior that is okay for an executive of the company.
[00:24:29]  And They know that.
[00:24:31]  And if, on top of all of this, these two are sleeping together, lying to corporate about it, to Warner about it, and he's promoting her up the line and has all along, there is no way she should keep her job, Tatiana.
[00:24:48]  That has been sort of the biggest question mark is why she is still there.
[00:24:54]  But, you know, I guess there still is the dynamic.
[00:25:00]  That she is an underling to him.
[00:25:02]  So technically, she can be seen as sort of a, at least in terms of their sexual relationship, you know, a victim here.
[00:25:12]  I don't think anyone sees her as a victim.
[00:25:15]  No, but under the law, it's not sexual harassment if you want it.
[00:25:18]  That's just the truth.
[00:25:19]  It's not sexual harassment if you want it.
[00:25:21]  And she's not alleging that she didn't want it.
[00:25:23]  They've been together for 25 years.
[00:25:25]  Good God.
[00:25:25]  You could have had a child and sent him to college and have him off in the workforce by the time during the course of that alleged relationship.
[00:25:32]  So, yeah, but no.
[00:25:34]  She's an executive of the company with her own obligations.
[00:25:36]  And like they said on the CNN website, you're not allowed to do this.
[00:25:39]  And if she was promoted, she was promoted.
[00:25:41]  It's even at CNN under him.
[00:25:44]  And she took that promotion without disclosing it.
[00:25:46]  That's a problem.
[00:25:47]  And all of these, separate and apart from her affair, these behaviors toward the Cuomo camp, which are going to come out in more detail, could cause major problems for CNN, for Warner, for the merger.
[00:26:00]  She's gone.
[00:26:01]  Mark my words.
[00:26:02]  That's my prediction.
[00:26:03]  She's gone.
[00:26:03]  I'll give you the last word.
[00:26:05]  Yeah.
[00:26:05]  I mean, I plan to pursue very aggressively exactly what you're talking about.
[00:26:12]  What was the nature of any help they were giving to Andrew Cuomo?
[00:26:17]  Because just as a journalistic fan of journalism and impartial journalism, that cannot be acceptable.
[00:26:27]  Yeah.
[00:26:28]  We need to know more.
[00:26:29]  What was the relationship between those two and Andrew?
[00:26:31]  How close was it?
[00:26:32]  How intimate was it?
[00:26:33]  What exactly did each one of them do?
[00:26:35]  When did they do it?
[00:26:36]  Who can testify to it?
[00:26:38]  That's the next step of this just disturbing story.
[00:26:42]  Tatiana, great reporting.
[00:26:43]  It's been interesting.
[00:26:44]  Very few people have picked up on it.
[00:26:46]  They're not retweeting it the way they did when something bad happened to Bill O'Reilly, to Roger Ailes, to Charlie Rose.
[00:26:53]  Sean Hannity.
[00:26:53]  Yeah.
[00:26:54]  Yeah, Sean Hannity, right?
[00:26:55]  Yeah.
[00:26:56]  Yeah.
[00:26:57]  And actually, I will say that one thing that I have noticed is my story has really been embraced by people on the far left and the far right and sort of in between.
[00:27:09]  I think it's like, A very narrow, mainstream sensibility that might not be completely willing to retweet it or go crazy with it.
[00:27:22]  MSNBC didn't cover his resignation at all the night after it was announced.
[00:27:25]  I mean, they didn't touch it.
[00:27:28]  That's crazy.
[00:27:29]  It's just leftist politics will be advanced or we will not do the story.
[00:27:33]  And of course, I lived the Roger Ailes fall firsthand.
[00:27:36]  It was everywhere.
[00:27:39]  I grant you, this is not.
[00:27:41]  That size, but it's a big, big story, and to ignore it entirely speaks to your own bias.
[00:27:47]  I applaud you and Rolling Stone for your reporting, and more to come.
[00:27:50]  Look forward to following up.
[00:27:53]  Thank you so much, Megan.
[00:27:54]  Yeah, you bet.
[00:27:55]  Tatiana Siegel.
[00:27:56]  One of the last few honest journalists out there, folks.
[00:27:59]  Up next, we're going to turn to the world of sports, something we rarely do here on the program.
[00:28:04]  This is my Achilles heel, but there's a lot of really interesting sports stories going on right now.
[00:28:08]  An update on Leah Thomas, that Yu Pen swimmer, as the swim team is divided openly, writing competing letters.
[00:28:14]  And there's a real question about whether Leah should be allowed to compete at the NCAA event next month.
[00:28:20]  We got the Olympics started in China.
[00:28:23]  What has happened so far?
[00:28:24]  How is NBC handling that awkwardness?
[00:28:26]  And this massive NFL lawsuit alleging racism.
[00:28:30]  Alison Williams will be here and Ethan Strauss is back as well to talk about all of it.
[00:28:34]  Don't go away.
[00:28:38]  You can send us a link to Alente.
[00:28:40]  Okay, so many are fantastic.
[00:28:43]  My last video is that you have a great deal of your own.
[00:28:48]  Now, you have a great deal of your own, and you can see the video and the video.
[00:28:55]  Here are some tips from Alente Stream Flex 2.
[00:28:59]  For the new year, for this whole TV channel, there will be two play bases for reclam, via play film as a series, and two extra streaming tenants for the future.
[00:29:11]  HBO Max, Prime Video, Sky Showtime, you name it.
[00:29:15]  This is for the whole family and the future over all.
[00:29:19]  For the mobile, not for the mobile, there will be a Chromecast hotel in the next week.
[00:29:25]  This is the future of the whole EU and the EU.
[00:29:29]  It will be a new year.
[00:29:31]  Tremontur, Sotinikronomontan, Nulbinning, Boreteva, Ostreaming, Akrot Sundubihada, Goinpolenta, Dotano, Otteste Summer, Tilbudspris and Posotinikroner for a Tremontur, Dareteel Normal Pace, Pofi and Ronetinikroner, Permonta.

=== China's Human Rights Record (10:47) ===

[00:29:59]  The Winter Olympics are officially underway in Beijing, but Covid.
[00:30:03]  And China's human rights abuses are largely overshadowing the game so far.
[00:30:07]  Joining me now to discuss that and many other sports headlines in the news today, two great sports journalists.
[00:30:12]  Allison Williams, happy to say, is a Daily Wire contributor and former ESPN reporter.
[00:30:18]  You remember Allison, she left the company over its vaccine mandate.
[00:30:22]  She's a young woman.
[00:30:23]  She's thinking about children.
[00:30:24]  She didn't want to do it, and they were going to make her.
[00:30:26]  So she was like, peace out.
[00:30:28]  And our friends over at the Daily Wire hired her.
[00:30:30]  So it all worked out in the end for the better.
[00:30:33]  Also with us is Ethan Strauss, writer of The House of Strauss Substack column.
[00:30:38]  So, thank you both so much for being here.
[00:30:40]  Thanks for having us.
[00:30:41]  All right.
[00:30:41]  So, let's, you're going to have to walk me through it because, you know, sports is my Achilles heel.
[00:30:46]  The Olympics opens up last night.
[00:30:47]  You couldn't even tell, right?
[00:30:49]  Like, I watched it and I was like, is this in China at first when I saw, you know, like the opening Mike Tariko?
[00:30:55]  I'm like, where is he?
[00:30:56]  He's in this little wooden cabin.
[00:30:58]  I don't, are we in Beijing?
[00:31:00]  I don't know.
[00:31:01]  So, it opened up and I guess Savannah Guthrie had a comment at the top that, Has some tongues wagging today as just one step too close to Chinese propaganda.
[00:31:13]  Let's hear what she said.
[00:31:15]  Like this moment is quite provocative.
[00:31:18]  It's a statement from the Chinese president Xi Jinping to choose an athlete from the Uyghur minority.
[00:31:24]  It is an in your face response to those Western nations, including the U.S., who have called this Chinese treatment of that group genocide and diplomatically boycotted these games.
[00:31:35]  There will be much discussion about this.
[00:31:37]  An in your face response, she says.
[00:31:40]  To the world that's criticized China for what some have called genocide.
[00:31:45]  Well, forced labor camps.
[00:31:47]  I mean, it's not too big a leap.
[00:31:49]  Your thoughts on it?
[00:31:50]  I'll start with you, Ethan.
[00:31:52]  It is what happens when these corporations become captured by China.
[00:31:57]  The case of NBC, their parent corporation has concerns in China, Universal Studios in China.
[00:32:03]  And I would encourage everybody to read Eric Schwartzl's book.
[00:32:06]  He's a Wall Street Journal reporter.
[00:32:08]  It's called The Red Carpet about how this all happened.
[00:32:12]  I think the saddest aspect of it all is if you look back to the 1990s, our big corporations gave away their independence and their sovereignty of spirit, I would say, without even firing a shot.
[00:32:24]  They were so excited about this market and willing to do anything.
[00:32:28]  And since China is top down and they can exert that.
[00:32:31]  Pressure, they have that leverage.
[00:32:34]  You see something as obsequious and pathetic as that commentary.
[00:32:39]  I know it's easy to make China the bad guy.
[00:32:42]  They are doing a lot of bad things.
[00:32:44]  But we can't lose sight of how we have failed as a country, that we really went fully into this without any kind of worry, while assuming that the First Amendment is the only thing that protects free speech.
[00:32:56]  We're in a situation where our major corporations are reflecting Chinese propaganda.
[00:33:01]  Back at us, and there's nothing so much that we're doing about it.
[00:33:05]  So, as much as it's easy to indict China, I think that a situation like this should cause us to have a hard look at ourselves.
[00:33:12]  You know, Allison, I have to say, I would have said this is how we need to change this script.
[00:33:18]  They've chosen a member of the Uyghurs, the Muslim minority in China.
[00:33:24]  I mean, what a choice, given that it's widely reported and known that they are torturing over a million Uyghurs right now.
[00:33:33]  In another part of China with forced sterilization, forced labor camps.
[00:33:37]  Let me show you the satellite tape of them binding them and taking them away on buses.
[00:33:43]  And let me air a quick clip of one of the Uyghurs who's gotten out talking about what happened.
[00:33:49]  Yes, it's awkward to do over the opening ceremony.
[00:33:52]  Too bad you have an American audience watching this and you don't gloss over it with what some call a genocide.
[00:33:59]  And wow, that's an in your face to have a Uyghur.
[00:34:02]  I mean, what's next?
[00:34:03]  Like, oh, there's Peng Shui.
[00:34:04]  Peng Shui's out there as the Carrier, the tennis player who they basically disappeared.
[00:34:10]  Oh, it's so nice to see her.
[00:34:11]  Some said she had a rough time by the Chinese government.
[00:34:14]  Like, you're supposed to be a news organization.
[00:34:16]  You're supposed to give it to us straight.
[00:34:17]  Go ahead.
[00:34:18]  Yeah, I think that's where the disappointment lies journalists have lost all kind of credibility at this point.
[00:34:25]  They have time and time again shown that they are being controlled by the interests that employ them and the corporate ties that bind them.
[00:34:33]  And in this case, it's China.
[00:34:35]  And it's difficult to watch on such a large scale.
[00:34:38]  And you have the juxtaposition of this celebratory time, this years of work, of accomplishment for these athletes, and you want to celebrate them.
[00:34:46]  I think that's like in our human nature to find the joy and the happiness and the celebration, but you're juxtaposing it with genocide.
[00:34:54]  And it's not what some people call genocide, it is genocide.
[00:34:58]  And it's happening and it's real.
[00:34:59]  And to act like it's anything other than that is a crime against what's happening.
[00:35:05]  I understand there's a difficult balance for people covering these Olympics to watch because.
[00:35:10]  Again, of the ties that bind the corporations that employ them and the job they want to do to celebrate these Olympics.
[00:35:17]  But they have to be honest with themselves and with the reality of what's going on in this country at this time and the human rights violations.
[00:35:25]  I think Mike Tirico did a much better job of addressing what's going on in China and the way this Olympics feels different.
[00:35:32]  And it's going to be different in every capacity.
[00:35:35]  Like you said, Megan, I mean, their announcers aren't there, they're in the NBC offices in Connecticut.
[00:35:40]  So everything.
[00:35:41]  Feels different.
[00:35:42]  The tension is real.
[00:35:43]  The tension between the US and China is real.
[00:35:46]  And it's palpable when you watch it.
[00:35:49]  So to act like it's anything but that, I think, is very disingenuous on the part of Savannah Gunthery.
[00:35:54]  And anyone else that tries to gloss over what's happening, it's happening, it's real.
[00:35:58]  Let's document it and be honest in our coverage.
[00:36:00]  So, here's how they did address it.
[00:36:02]  We all mentioned Mike Tarico now.
[00:36:03]  Here he is in his little cabin talking about the genocide.
[00:36:07]  Listen.
[00:36:08]  The nation where COVID began has treated the pandemic differently from the rest of the world.
[00:36:13]  Its zero tolerance COVID policy has made getting here and putting on the games incredibly challenging for everyone involved.
[00:36:20]  Everything and everyone attached to these games is facing questions.
[00:36:24]  The hosts, the guests, the IOC, The sponsors, media, and athletes.
[00:36:30]  The United States government is not here.
[00:36:31]  A diplomatic boycott announced this fall, joined by Canada, Great Britain, and Australia, citing China's human rights record and the U.S. government's declaration that the Chinese Communist Party is guilty of committing genocide on the Uighur Muslim population in western Xinjiang region.
[00:36:47]  That's a charge that China denies.
[00:36:49]  So the U.S. government isn't here, but Team USA is, with American athletes among those competing in the middle of all this debate and controversy.
[00:36:57]  I'm sorry, Ethan, but no, not good enough.
[00:37:01]  Air a report.
[00:37:02]  It's not a he said, she said.
[00:37:04]  It's not.
[00:37:05]  This is us kowtowing to the Chinese.
[00:37:07]  We're afraid, right?
[00:37:08]  They've warned everybody don't say anything about us, or we might get yanked from being able to cover the games.
[00:37:16]  NBC is aware of that.
[00:37:17]  The athletes are certainly, they've been warned to within an inch of their lives that they can't say anything.
[00:37:21]  Just shut up and play sports.
[00:37:23]  Nancy Pelosi doubled down on that just today.
[00:37:26]  That's not good enough.
[00:37:28]  Yeah, the Pelosi warning to the athletes was absolutely fascinating to me.
[00:37:32]  I wondered is that just that she's getting old and she's rambling?
[00:37:36]  Is there intentionality behind that?
[00:37:38]  Can I jump in?
[00:37:39]  We have it.
[00:37:40]  We have it.
[00:37:40]  So let me play it and then pick back up your thought.
[00:37:43]  Here it is.
[00:37:44]  I would say to our athletes you're there to compete.
[00:37:52]  Do not risk incurring the anger of the Chinese government because they are ruthless.
[00:37:59]  I know there is a temptation on the part of some to speak out while they are there.
[00:38:04]  I respect that.
[00:38:06]  But I also worry about what the Chinese government might do to their reputations, to their families.
[00:38:14]  Wait, wait, aren't we American?
[00:38:17]  Aren't we America?
[00:38:18]  We're basically like you're kind of screwed if the Chinese get mad.
[00:38:22]  We're the United States of America.
[00:38:24]  I mean, it's so bizarre to see that warning.
[00:38:27]  You wonder what the idea behind it is.
[00:38:29]  And sometimes I do think as a country, we can be as Addicted a little bit to high mindedness and exporting our values.
[00:38:35]  And I don't think that we have the moral authority to do that.
[00:38:38]  I don't think we have the national health to do that like maybe we could do that in the 1990s.
[00:38:43]  So maybe we should look at a situation like this and condemn, obviously, what China is doing vis a vis the Uyghurs and human rights, but also say if you're warning American athletes in that manner, they just shouldn't be there for their own safety, just because of us, our own selfish concerns for our own citizens.
[00:39:03]  It doesn't make a lot of sense.
[00:39:05]  And I'll tell you what's Scary about what she's saying.
[00:39:08]  It's that I don't have any guarantee that it just stops here.
[00:39:12]  I witnessed with the NBA how you had Daryl Morey, who was the general manager of the Houston Rockets.
[00:39:18]  He put out a free Hong Kong tweet China cut off all business with the NBA.
[00:39:24]  And I'm watching ESPN, a company that I think of as an American company, and nobody on the channel could say anything about it.
[00:39:32]  They were all frozen silent because they were worried about Disney getting punished by China.
[00:39:37]  And so You see this encroachment when Nancy Pelosi is warning everybody in that way.
[00:39:42]  It's almost like saying, These are your rulers, these are the people who have authority over you.
[00:39:50]  That is a fundamental shift.
[00:39:52]  I don't like seeing it from.
[00:39:54]  Are, for lack of a better term, elites.
[00:39:56]  And increasingly, I think it is the issue that you see the biggest chasm between elite opinion and the public opinion in the United States.
[00:40:05]  Where's the statement?
[00:40:07]  You're Americans, so we'd like you to just play sports, but if anybody gets in trouble, we got you.
[00:40:14]  You're an American, and we are the United States of America, and we will have your back, and the Chinese will not mess with you, or we will pull all of our athletes from the games, and that will be the end of that.
[00:40:24]  What is this?
[00:40:25]  Like, please don't anger the mighty Chinese.
[00:40:28]  They're mean people.
[00:40:29]  I'm like, what the?
[00:40:30]  What?
[00:40:31]  Okay.
[00:40:31]  No, Steve, I got a lot of stocks.
[00:40:33]  I got a lot of stocks I'm trading.
[00:40:35]  Don't screw it up for me, athletes.
[00:40:36]  Wait until I hit sell first.
[00:40:38]  That's one of the most alarming things.
[00:40:40]  All right, stand by.
[00:40:40]  It's so alarming.
[00:40:41]  There's so, I want to squeeze in a quick break, but there's so much more to go over.
[00:40:44]  And then I'll come back and get your thought.

=== NFL Hiring and the Rooney Rule (07:41) ===

[00:40:46]  And you guys will explain what is happening in this Brian Flores lawsuit that every man I know is talking about.
[00:40:53]  Don't go away.
[00:40:53]  And remember, you can find The Megan Kelly Show.
[00:40:55]  Live on SiriusXM Triumph Channel 111 every weekday at noon East, and the full video show and clips by subscribing to our YouTube channel, youtube.com/slash Megan Kelly.
[00:41:06]  If you prefer an audio podcast, you can subscribe and download on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:41:13]  I always forget when you go, could you give me five stars?
[00:41:18]  There's some losers who will give me like a zero or a one who then leave very nasty reviews because I do read them all.
[00:41:24]  Please be one of the kind people and give me some five stars.
[00:41:27]  I always forget to push to advocate for our show.
[00:41:30]  Then you will, while you're there, you'll see our full archives that have more than 250 shows now, including the first times Allison and Ethan were with us, episodes 186 and 189.
[00:41:47]  The National Football League facing a bombshell lawsuit from former Miami Dolphins head coach Brian Flores.
[00:41:54]  He is accusing the league and several teams.
[00:41:57]  Of race discrimination, a charge they vehemently deny.
[00:42:02]  So, Allison, who is Brian Flores and what is he alleging?
[00:42:06]  So, Brian Flores is the former head coach of the Miami Dolphins.
[00:42:09]  He had three seasons there, finished 24 and 25 during his time, but back to back winning seasons.
[00:42:14]  And his team played really well towards the end of last season, winning eight of their last nine.
[00:42:20]  So, he has established head coaching success in the NFL.
[00:42:23]  And he got fired at the end of the season by the Miami Dolphins.
[00:42:27]  So, he's been interviewing.
[00:42:28]  For numerous head coaching vacancies, one of them being with the New York Giants.
[00:42:33]  Apparently, just prior to his interview with the Giants, he received a text message from Bill Belichick, the head coach of the New England Patriots, congratulating him on getting the job, which he hadn't even interviewed for yet.
[00:42:46]  Belichick realized he messed up and incorrectly texted Flores instead of Brian Dabbel, who ultimately was hired as the head coach for the Giants.
[00:42:54]  Very interesting timing.
[00:42:55]  It obviously upset Flores to hear that this decision had supposedly been made prior to him even interviewing.
[00:43:01]  What's interesting in all of this is the Giants say, of course, that the decision had not been made yet and that they did not reach the conclusion of who their head coach was going to be until they had, in fact, interviewed Brian Flores.
[00:43:13]  The thing within the NFL, you have to remember, is that since 2003, there's been something called the Rooney Rule, which basically says that every team that's hiring a head coach has to interview a minority for the position.
[00:43:26]  It was a certainly well intended rule.
[00:43:29]  It wanted to ensure at least the opportunity was there for Black coaches within the league.
[00:43:34]  I'm not sure.
[00:43:35]  That it has had the results people had hoped.
[00:43:38]  And Brian Flores is saying, look, this is setting us up for what are essentially sham interviews.
[00:43:42]  He alleges that he had one with the Broncos several years ago as well.
[00:43:47]  He's also come out now with allegations against the Miami Dolphins, accusing the owner, Stephen Ross, of asking him to tank games.
[00:43:54]  Encouraging him to tamper and search for a quarterback.
[00:43:57]  So there are a lot of layers to this lawsuit, but ultimately at the heart of it is what Brian Flores says is a racist system within the hiring practices of the NFL, and he wants to shed light on it.
[00:44:11]  The Rooney rule is kind of at the heart of it all.
[00:44:16]  And like I said, it's a rule that's been in place for almost 20 years now.
[00:44:19]  It was modified a few years ago to further incentivize teams to hire and give opportunities to minority candidates.
[00:44:26]  But it seems to be inherently flawed.
[00:44:28]  You know, there's only one head coach right now currently in the NFL that's black, and that's Mike Tomlin at Pittsburgh.
[00:44:34]  This is a league that has 70% black players.
[00:44:37]  So there's certainly some numbers that point to concern within the hiring practices in the NFL, but I'm not sure with what Brian Flores is alleging, you can prove that it's all based on racism.
[00:44:51]  So it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
[00:44:54]  And I'm with Brian Flores and the fact that he says, You know, hearts and minds need to change.
[00:44:59]  I agree with him wholeheartedly on that.
[00:45:01]  I'm not sure how this lawsuit will impact or affect that, but I do think it's good that it is at least opening up this conversation.
[00:45:09]  I think that can be nothing but helpful.
[00:45:11]  You know, Ethan, if they were giving him a sham interview on the Giants or any of these other teams, it could be for any number of reasons.
[00:45:20]  It doesn't have to be because of race, right?
[00:45:22]  It could be like, you know, you got to cast a wide net, we got to go back to the ownership and say, we interviewed five.
[00:45:28]  Candidates, and you know, we did our due diligence.
[00:45:31]  I don't see anything in his lawsuit that speaks to specifically race.
[00:45:35]  There isn't always, there isn't always like the smoking, they don't always have a text saying, Well, we don't want the black guy, you know, like that would be a plaintiff's lawyer's dream.
[00:45:43]  So he's kind of alleging it's more anecdotal than that, and that the only reason these teams were giving him a nod was because of his skin color and that the fix was in right from the get go.
[00:45:54]  I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if he's right about that.
[00:45:57]  Now, Allison did a fantastic job at the expository, that's why she's a professional.
[00:46:02]  Sports broadcaster, there's one aspect I might quibble with there when she said it was a well intentioned rule, the Rooney rule.
[00:46:10]  I don't know about that.
[00:46:12]  It seemed like they arrived at that rule as a consequence of getting pressure from Johnny Cochran and other people who were noticing back in the early 2000s that they had only one black coach and they had a dearth of black coaches as they do now.
[00:46:26]  And so it comes back to Richard Hanania's theory that wokeness is just civil rights law.
[00:46:32]  That these sports organizations, they talk a big game, they sound very virtue signally.
[00:46:38]  We might say or assume that they've been infected by the university ethos, but something else is happening.
[00:46:45]  I mean, when Adam Silver, the commissioner of the NBA, started talking a few years ago that he wanted 50% of referees to be women, it was an odd thing out of nowhere to say that he wanted it.
[00:46:56]  It didn't really make a lot of sense.
[00:46:57]  That's not even, no offense to referees, a super high status job relative to the other jobs in the NBA.
[00:47:03]  But what it is, I'd surmise, Is a reaction to how he might get sued because the referees were nearly all male, very male culture.
[00:47:12]  And you can get sued because it's disparate, it's not proportional.
[00:47:17]  And that's what these leagues are concerned about.
[00:47:19]  That's what they're protecting themselves from.
[00:47:21]  And in the case of the Rooney rule, it is a sham, it is ridiculous.
[00:47:25]  And just we can have a conversation about whether that is a goal you should have to do better, as they say in your demography, whether that's a road to hell.
[00:47:36]  That's one conversation.
[00:47:36]  But by its own standards, The Rooney rule is a failure.
[00:47:40]  It's not respected.
[00:47:41]  Victor Davis Hansen has been saying this.
[00:47:43]  Victor Davis Hansen has been making this point for a while, saying if you really want sort of to have all these sports industries be more equitable and have more diversity, because you really believe that diversity.
[00:47:55]  Matters in the player ranks and the coaching ranks and so on, then we need to look at the NBA.
[00:48:01]  We need to draft more white guys into the NBA.
[00:48:03]  We need to draft more Asian guys, more Indian guys into the NBA.
[00:48:08]  Let's do that.
[00:48:10]  That's never going to happen.
[00:48:13]  And you sort of do open up a hornet's nest by just looking at skin color, just skin color.
[00:48:19]  That doesn't mean that if there's a conspiracy to keep him out because he's black, it's legal.
[00:48:24]  There isn't.
[00:48:25]  That's not going to hold up.
[00:48:26]  It's just the question of evidence.

=== Vaccine Mandate Coercion Debate (04:49) ===

[00:48:27]  Quickly, Allison, can you just explain?
[00:48:29]  I've got a break in like 40 minutes, 40 seconds.
[00:48:33]  $100,000 to tank games.
[00:48:34]  Why would anybody want to do that?
[00:48:36]  For draft picks, to get a higher draft pick.
[00:48:38]  I mean, it's insane.
[00:48:40]  Yeah, that's the allegation from Flores that Stephen Ross, the owner of the Dolphins, offered him $100,000 per game if he would lose.
[00:48:48]  He clearly did not abide.
[00:48:49]  They did very well at the end of the season.
[00:48:51]  So it's all about getting those draft picks.
[00:48:53]  So might as well stink worse so that we can get a better draft pick.
[00:48:56]  And he says, I refuse to do it.
[00:48:57]  Oh, fascinating.
[00:48:58]  Okay, much, much more to discuss.
[00:48:59]  Don't go away.
[00:49:00]  Allison and Ethan coming back.
[00:49:01]  After this break, and we're going to talk about the latest on trans swimmer at UPenn, Leah Thomas.
[00:49:11]  Okay, before we get to Leah Thomas, let's talk about vaccines.
[00:49:15]  Last time you were with us, Allison, you were getting ready to, or you had just left ESPN with a very emotional and honest video about why the vaccine didn't work for you and you didn't want to be forced into getting it.
[00:49:27]  And we talked about how it was, I felt uncomfortable saying, Why didn't you get it?
[00:49:31]  And then you had to answer about your personal medical.
[00:49:33]  It's like, It's none of my business.
[00:49:35]  Well, Shaq is apparently on board with that same line of thinking.
[00:49:40]  He has actually spoken out saying people should not be forced to get the vaccine.
[00:49:46]  Here is a bit of that.
[00:49:47]  Listen.
[00:49:47]  Look, I encourage everybody to be safe and take care of your family.
[00:49:51]  I do.
[00:49:52]  But there's still some people that don't want to take it.
[00:49:54]  And you shouldn't have to be forced to take something that you don't want.
[00:49:58]  I don't think people are being forced to take it.
[00:50:00]  Well, there are some.
[00:50:01]  I mean, listen, we have a mandate at CBS.
[00:50:03]  That's forced.
[00:50:04]  We have a mandate at CBS.
[00:50:05]  But my point is, Point.
[00:50:06]  That's force.
[00:50:07]  But where I wholeheartedly.
[00:50:08]  That's force.
[00:50:09]  No, it's not force.
[00:50:10]  It is for, because if the man don't take it, the man will get fired.
[00:50:14]  Yes, a good point.
[00:50:16]  Right.
[00:50:17]  And she went on to say that this is Nichelle Turner.
[00:50:22]  She went on to say, no, I wholeheartedly disagree.
[00:50:26]  You're not just affecting yourself, you're putting the public at risk, and it's a public health issue.
[00:50:30]  Allison, what do you make of it?
[00:50:32]  First of all, I think the most interesting part of that was Shaq had to preface everything he said with.
[00:50:38]  I'm probably going to get in trouble for this.
[00:50:40]  Yes.
[00:50:41]  That's where we're at, right?
[00:50:42]  Where you can't speak out against mandates without acknowledging you're probably going to get in trouble for this, whether it be from people on social media, people you work for, or whatnot.
[00:50:51]  So that to me is very concerning.
[00:50:53]  The second thing that bothers me is his co host repeatedly says it's not force.
[00:50:58]  Okay, but it's coercion.
[00:51:00]  It is not a choice.
[00:51:01]  She says it's a choice to walk out the door if you don't follow the rules.
[00:51:04]  That is coercion.
[00:51:06]  And she's entitled to whatever opinion she wants to have.
[00:51:09]  That's fine.
[00:51:10]  Fundamentally flawed because she turns this into a well, if you don't get it, you're hurting me.
[00:51:15]  But the science has proved otherwise because we all know now that vaccinated people can get and transmit the illness.
[00:51:22]  So I am not protecting anyone else by getting the vaccine if I can still spread it.
[00:51:27]  So her whole premise and justification for the mandates is fundamentally flawed.
[00:51:32]  And I wanted to hear him say that.
[00:51:35]  I wanted to hear him say that.
[00:51:36]  I had to tell you, I went for my annual mammogram this week, which, ladies, you should all do.
[00:51:42]  And And by the way, they were saying that they had a couple of cases where women found stage four breast cancer that could have been avoided if the women had gone in for their annual mammogram during the COVID lockdowns.
[00:51:54]  But they didn't.
[00:51:55]  They've been scared by the fear mongers that, you know, you shouldn't, don't go out and whatever.
[00:52:00]  They postponed it.
[00:52:01]  So just get your animal mammogram if you are 45 or up.
[00:52:04]  But my doctor, who I love, Ethan, was, and she's a New York lefty, and I love talking to her because it's great to hear her POV, and she's smart and she's a doctor.
[00:52:13]  So she gets, you know, she gets a fair point of view.
[00:52:16]  She gets to have a strong opinion.
[00:52:18]  She worked in New York through the pandemic, and I respect that.
[00:52:22]  But she is definitely in the same camp as Nichelle, you know.
[00:52:27]  You get the vaccine, do your part.
[00:52:28]  It's a public duty.
[00:52:30]  And why should the rest of us have to take all the measures and make all the sacrifices and you don't have to take any?
[00:52:36]  And I kept saying to her, I get that more like in the Omega phase of this pandemic, but like, how do you square that now with Omicron, which everyone can spread equally, vaccinated or unvaccinated?
[00:52:51]  And even this brilliant doctor just kept rounding back to do your part, do your part.
[00:52:56]  She didn't have an answer.
[00:52:57]  Yeah, it's sloganeering.
[00:52:59]  And I wonder if the operating modality of the current regime, of so much of media, is just passive aggression, obnoxious passive aggression.
[00:53:07]  The idea of you're not forced, you just get fired if you don't do it.
[00:53:11]  There aren't restrictions.
[00:53:13]  You just have to put a mask on your three year old.
[00:53:15]  That's it.
[00:53:16]  That's the only thing.

=== Biological Sex in Swimming (11:49) ===

[00:53:17]  It's this denial that people have the issues with these impositions in their lives and not really grappling with it, not really listening.
[00:53:25]  And I've written a bit about this.
[00:53:27]  I personally got the vaccine.
[00:53:30]  I don't believe everything that Aaron Rodgers says about it.
[00:53:33]  I don't believe everything that Joe Rogan's guests, like Robert Malone, the doctor, and who was involved in the invention of mRNA.
[00:53:41]  It's hard for me to say that for some reason.
[00:53:43]  I don't necessarily believe everything that they're saying.
[00:53:46]  But if you ask me why my contempt is not aimed in that direction, right?
[00:53:51]  Because it seems like we're almost trained to, that you're supposed to be angry, angriest at these people, it's because they don't want to do anything to me.
[00:54:00]  They don't want to impose any restrictions on me.
[00:54:03]  Aaron Rodgers might believe the kookiest stuff in the world, right?
[00:54:06]  He might have the worst justifications for avoiding the vaccine.
[00:54:09]  Same with Kyrie Irving.
[00:54:11]  I don't know.
[00:54:12]  But I also know that he doesn't want to keep my son in a mask in perpetuity versus the loudest critics of these people who, I don't know, it kind of seems like they might sign on for this forever.
[00:54:23]  So that's why I've shifted my frustration, at least to the people who are trying to impose such mandates and impose such restrictions, as opposed to being angry at the people who step out of line.
[00:54:35]  Yeah.
[00:54:35]  Good for Shaq for speaking out about it, though, because it's like he's kind of untouchable.
[00:54:40]  They can say he's in trouble all they want.
[00:54:42]  He's untouchable.
[00:54:43]  So good for him for at least creating more weight on the side of diversity of opinion.
[00:54:49]  People are afraid and they shouldn't be to speak out.
[00:54:52]  Tom Brady, got to talk about him.
[00:54:55]  You knew it was going to happen.
[00:54:56]  It happened.
[00:54:57]  And I'm not talking about the retirement, I'm talking about the blame Giselle crowd.
[00:55:00]  Why is Giselle?
[00:55:03]  I love that we are treating Tom Brady like he's some.
[00:55:05]  Infant, right?
[00:55:07]  He's just got to do what mama says.
[00:55:10]  Why does she get the blame for his retirement?
[00:55:12]  I think it's crazy talk.
[00:55:13]  Your thoughts on it, Allison.
[00:55:15]  It is crazy talk, but this is what we do, right?
[00:55:17]  Like whenever athletes go through a slump or they struggle, it's like, oh, it's the new girlfriend.
[00:55:21]  It's the new famous relationship they have.
[00:55:24]  But first of all, let me say this any man who makes a career decision like this to retire or to keep playing, they better consult their wife or they're not in a very healthy relationship.
[00:55:35]  So of course, Giselle should have a say.
[00:55:38]  This is their lives.
[00:55:40]  The other thing is, we act like Tom Brady.
[00:55:43]  Like you said, he's an infant.
[00:55:44]  We act like he's 30 years old.
[00:55:45]  He's 44.
[00:55:46]  He was the oldest player in the NFL last year, the oldest player to win, oldest quarterback to win a Super Bowl.
[00:55:52]  So just because he looks like he's aged in reverse, it does not mean he has.
[00:55:57]  He's 44 years old.
[00:55:59]  He has a beautiful supermodel wife.
[00:56:00]  And I'm sorry, but every other man in the country, if you were married to Giselle and you didn't have to go to work anymore, you probably wouldn't either.
[00:56:07]  You know what?
[00:56:07]  For that matter, you would do what she told you.
[00:56:09]  If she said, I want you to be at home with me all day, you'd be like, I will do it.
[00:56:12]  Thank you.
[00:56:13]  Thank you for the invitation, Giselle.
[00:56:15]  I don't know.
[00:56:16]  It's kind of annoying because he's obviously going to be the one in charge of his football career, Ethan.
[00:56:22]  I'm sure he did consult with her, but this is clearly his decision and his decision alone.
[00:56:27]  I can't come up with any plausible reason for why a middle aged man would want to retire from football other than the wife.
[00:56:35]  No, it's ridiculous.
[00:56:36]  But you hear these things.
[00:56:37]  You do hear these things.
[00:56:38]  I remember when LeBron left the Miami Heat, there are all these rumors swirling around that his wife wanted him out of Miami.
[00:56:45]  And in the NBA, we often hear that happy wife, happy life.
[00:56:49]  And it is part of the decision making process.
[00:56:51]  But, you know, this is a good time to go out for Tom Brady.
[00:56:56]  This isn't exactly like Yoko Ono breaking up the Beatles.
[00:56:59]  This is a pretty decent end of the story.
[00:57:01]  Yeah.
[00:57:01]  Oh, yeah.
[00:57:02]  And it's not the end.
[00:57:02]  It's just the end of this particular chapter.
[00:57:04]  All right.
[00:57:05]  Let's talk about Leah Thomas because things are getting weird there.
[00:57:10]  I'm encouraged by the fact that 16 of her teammates came out saying we don't think it's fair to have her compete at the NCAA swimming championships in March.
[00:57:22]  I'm encouraged because we've heard repeatedly a couple athletes speak out to out kick or Daily Mail.
[00:57:28]  They don't want to say their names.
[00:57:29]  They're all afraid.
[00:57:30]  And they're not saying their names even here.
[00:57:33]  But at least they're getting organized and feeling a little bit more bold about expressing their objections, and we should hear from them.
[00:57:39]  She has, Leah Thomas, this is the trans female swimmer on the team, qualified for multiple events for the championship.
[00:57:47]  So right now it looks like she's going and she's poised to break all these records if she swims as we expect.
[00:57:56]  It's not entirely clear because the NCAA, Ethan, has been too cowardly to actually just set its own rule and make it fair.
[00:58:06]  So, it has said we're going to defer to the governing body in each sport.
[00:58:10]  And here that would be USA Swimming.
[00:58:13]  And USA Swimming indeed did step up to the plate and issue a new policy that establishes new eligibility criteria for trans athletes.
[00:58:23]  And here are just a couple of things.
[00:58:25]  They say to determine whether you're eligible, we're going to have a three person panel of independent medical experts to determine whether the swimmer's prior physical development as a man gives the athlete a competitive advantage.
[00:58:36]  Yes, that's good.
[00:58:37]  So, in the case of Leah Thomas, even I am assuming, even if her testosterone levels met the levels that they required, there's a body of humans that can look and say, Look at Leah Thomas.
[00:58:49]  Leah Thomas is a man who says that she's a woman, but that is the body of a man.
[00:58:55]  And Leah Thomas still has all these advantages.
[00:58:57]  Okay.
[00:58:58]  Then they say the swimmer also must show the concentration of testosterone in her blood has been less than five, I don't know how to say this word, nanomoles.
[00:59:07]  Per liter continuously for at least 36 months.
[00:59:11]  The long and the short of it is, however, they're only phasing those new requirements in slowly.
[00:59:16]  So it doesn't look like Leah Thomas is going to be subjected to them.
[00:59:19]  So it does look like Leah Thomas can compete.
[00:59:22]  And there are a couple of U Penn swimmers who have taken the other side, saying, don't be so transphobic.
[00:59:29]  We want her to compete.
[00:59:30]  What do you think should happen and what will happen on March 16th through 19th when this competition takes place?
[00:59:39]  Wow.
[00:59:40]  I don't know exactly what's going to happen when the competition takes place, but I'm with the majority, the overwhelming majority of Americans who think that a biological male should not be competing against biological females in sport.
[00:59:54]  And the crazy thing about it, It's that asymmetry we keep seeing where things are happening in elite institutions that the vast majority of people are against, but yet in those institutions, it's so taboo to give voice to that.
[01:00:08]  ESPN avoided this story for weeks.
[01:00:11]  They did not want to say anything about it.
[01:00:14]  Outkicked the coverage, a lot of reporting.
[01:00:16]  New York Post, Ryan Glasspiegel wrote about it.
[01:00:19]  He told me he was amazed at how many page views it got.
[01:00:22]  So it had so much interest.
[01:00:23]  And when you see the Gallup polling, it's almost two to one.
[01:00:26]  People think that.
[01:00:27]  Biological males shouldn't compete against biological females in sports.
[01:00:31]  And some of these advocacy groups actually did a survey and they're expressing disappointment that none of our arguments work on people when we try to persuade them that biological males should be able to compete against biological females.
[01:00:44]  It is a stumbling block.
[01:00:45]  I think it's a cultural Waterloo, pardon the pun.
[01:00:49]  Even though everybody is scared of saying so in media, or nearly everybody, they don't want what happened to Chappelle to happen to them or J.K. Rowling, they don't want activists to be angry at them.
[01:00:59]  I don't think the public can digest this.
[01:01:02]  I don't think that this is really going to fly.
[01:01:04]  And I think so long as the universities keep trying to advance this and push this, it's the type of thing that can cause a preference cascade, not just in the sports culture, but in the political culture as well of this is just too much.
[01:01:16]  This is just too crazy.
[01:01:18]  We can't have this.
[01:01:20]  That's actually a very astute thinking.
[01:01:22]  What do you think, Allison?
[01:01:24]  Yeah, I think it highlights so many issues on a lot of different levels.
[01:01:28]  And the most basic one is like we have to stop denying that there are biological differences between men and women.
[01:01:35]  In acting like it's a bad thing to acknowledge them.
[01:01:37]  And I think also we have to dismiss this notion that just because you want fairness on a competitive playing field or in the pool does not make you transphobic.
[01:01:47]  This is not a fair situation and competitive field for these swimmers.
[01:01:51]  It's not.
[01:01:52]  And to deny that is again to deny the biological differences between men and women.
[01:01:57]  Just to put it in context, Leah Thomas was the 462nd ranked male in the country when she competed as a male her first three years at Penn.
[01:02:06]  Now she's number one.
[01:02:07]  As a female.
[01:02:08]  Okay.
[01:02:09]  So there is a huge difference there.
[01:02:11]  She set two records this year as a female competitor, and she's taking away opportunities from other females on her own team.
[01:02:19]  You can only send so many of your swimmers to the Ivy League championship meet.
[01:02:24]  So she's taking away opportunities from women who have trained and worked their entire lives to earn these opportunities, these scholarships, and this ability to compete.
[01:02:32]  And the records she's setting don't hold the value that they would if they were set by biologically, biological women.
[01:02:41]  It's an uncomfortable situation for these swimmers.
[01:02:44]  They've acknowledged that.
[01:02:45]  And why are we not listening to them and having any concern for what their experience is?
[01:02:51]  Everybody's worried about Leah's experience.
[01:02:53]  Well, what about that of her teammates and the uncomfortable situations they're putting her in?
[01:02:57]  So I think they have to really step back and look at this as a bigger picture and ask what it's doing, not just to the sport, but to the competitors and for everybody that fought so hard, Megan, for Title IX and for women to have the opportunity to compete and participate in sports.
[01:03:15]  To now have a biological male come in and take that away?
[01:03:18]  Are we comfortable with that?
[01:03:20]  I mean, as feminists, as people who fought for gender equality for women in sports, and to now have it taken away because someone identifies as a female, you can support her on her journey to transition.
[01:03:33]  You can support her in her desire to express her gender, but that doesn't change what she is biologically.
[01:03:40]  And that has an impact on the competitiveness of the sport.
[01:03:44]  And we need to recognize that if we want to have this be.
[01:03:46]  A fair situation.
[01:03:47]  That's what the letter with the 16 swimmers who are objecting was sent by Nancy Hogshead Makar.
[01:03:53]  She was on our show actually, 1984 Olympic swimming gold medalist.
[01:03:57]  And she said, we fully support Leah Thomason in her decision to affirm her gender identity and transition from a man to a woman, right?
[01:04:04]  She's got every right to live her life authentically.
[01:04:06]  However, we also recognize that when it comes to sports competition, when it comes to sports competition, that the biology of sex is a separate issue from someone's gender identity.
[01:04:17]  And biologically, Leah holds an unfair advantage over competition in the women's category.
[01:04:22]  That's exactly it.
[01:04:22]  It's not that people mean to disrespect her by saying, here we see you as a man, because we have to look at biological sex and we have to look at the sex advantages that come with being a man.
[01:04:32]  It doesn't mean we're trying to disrespect you.
[01:04:34]  And what we're trying to do is preserve respect for the biological women who have done absolutely nothing wrong, but are about to have zero shot at winning or a record because of this unfairness, which has gone unaddressed for too long.
[01:04:47]  Shame on you, Penn, for when there was a previous objection and they stand by this, sending the female swimmers to the link to on campus therapy.
[01:04:58]  Shame on you, you, Penn.
[01:05:00]  Shame on you.
[01:05:01]  Allison and Ethan, it's been a pleasure speaking with you.
[01:05:03]  Thank you so much for coming on.
[01:05:05]  Thanks for having us.

=== Cultural Victimhood Comparisons (07:20) ===

[01:05:06]  All right, coming up, we're going to finish it off with a laugh.
[01:05:09]  Comedian Akash Singh is here to talk about Rogan, COVID, and much, much more.
[01:05:14]  He's got a podcast with Andrew Schultz, who's been on this show and is hysterical.
[01:05:19]  And so is Akash.
[01:05:20]  And we're looking forward to that.
[01:05:26]  Joining me now is comedian and co host of the hilarious Flagrant 2 podcast, Akash Singh.
[01:05:33]  His latest comedy special, Bring Back Apu, is out on YouTube this week.
[01:05:38]  Akash, thanks so much for being here.
[01:05:40]  Thank you for having me, Megan.
[01:05:41]  Let's put a nice disclaimer on this.
[01:05:42]  There's going to be a lot of misinformation getting spewed for the next half hour or so.
[01:05:45]  There is.
[01:05:46]  Why?
[01:05:47]  Nothing.
[01:05:47]  I mean, nothing a comedian says should be taken seriously.
[01:05:49]  So, you know, we're all just talking.
[01:05:51]  Let's have fun.
[01:05:51]  All right.
[01:05:52]  What's the special about?
[01:05:54]  It actually, it hopefully comes out today.
[01:05:56]  We're running a little bit behind because I really want to make it great and we're putting a lot of work in.
[01:06:00]  I haven't slept in days.
[01:06:02]  But the special is called Bring Back a Poo.
[01:06:04]  And there is a through line kind of centered around the idea.
[01:06:09]  That got Apu taken off the air.
[01:06:11]  And Apu, to me, wasn't an offensive character on a TV show.
[01:06:16]  Sure, it was a white guy doing the accent, but I also understood in the context of the 80s, there probably weren't a bunch of Indian voiceover actors.
[01:06:23]  And then Hank Azaria made this character really three dimensional and nuanced and one of the few, one of the most evolved people in his town.
[01:06:31]  And I think the larger issue I had with it is this kind of like currency in victimhood that we have that we've adopted.
[01:06:39]  I think a lot of people are hopping on to a well meaning thing, which is I understand Black Americans have been systemically oppressed since they got here, but I think a lot of other cultures are trying to get the same currency and making victimhood out of stuff that's not really victimhood.
[01:06:54]  And so I think we just need to step back and take a second and say, you know what?
[01:06:57]  We live in America, which is definitely one of the greatest countries in the world, if not the greatest.
[01:07:03]  We all have access to clean water, indoor plumbing, all these things that our parents didn't have if you're Indian.
[01:07:08]  And I just think we need to sit back and not try to hop onto the victimhood thing.
[01:07:13]  We're lucky to be here.
[01:07:14]  We're privileged to be here.
[01:07:15]  Well, what do you make of the people who are of Indian descent?
[01:07:21]  Do they, like, where do you think they fall on the oppression scale that the leftists have created for us, right?
[01:07:26]  Because, like, you're brown, you have brown skin, and yet I don't feel like they're really talking about you when they talk about systemic oppression against black and brown people.
[01:07:35]  Frankly, they shouldn't, frankly.
[01:07:36]  My wife is sick, she's Sikh, and she has kind of opened my eyes to the sick men who wear turbans.
[01:07:42]  Yeah, they deal with racism.
[01:07:44]  It's probably pretty rough.
[01:07:45]  And Muslim women who wear hijabs.
[01:07:47]  Everybody else, if you're Indian, you're probably doing great.
[01:07:50]  You deal with some hurt feelings for sure.
[01:07:52]  People hurt my feelings in school.
[01:07:54]  But if you expect to live a life without hurt feelings, you're not going to live a life.
[01:07:57]  Indians, I think, make twice the median income as the average American.
[01:08:00]  I think it's $124,000 per household.
[01:08:03]  The rest of America is making like $63,000.
[01:08:05]  They're 30% of the Fortune 500 CEOs.
[01:08:08]  I just don't understand how we've decided we're victims.
[01:08:10]  And it's kind of gross to me and disingenuous to create entire narratives based around us being victims in this country.
[01:08:18]  And do you think, like, I mean, when do you think there's a contingent within the Indian community that wants to glom on with that?
[01:08:24]  Because to me, like, all the Indian friends that I have are incredibly hardworking.
[01:08:28]  They don't think of themselves as Victims and they don't want to be slowed down with any of that nonsense.
[01:08:31]  It's all about academic rigor for their kids and professional rigor for themselves.
[01:08:37]  Yes, be a doctor.
[01:08:38]  That's all.
[01:08:39]  The only thing that disappoints my parents about me is I'm not a doctor.
[01:08:44]  But other than that, it's just, and that's what I liked about the culture we passed down for Indian Americans here.
[01:08:49]  Our parents just taught us to work hard, keep your head down, and go be great and don't worry about the obstacles because they went through much bigger obstacles back home in India.
[01:08:59]  And here, we're looking at us like we're the richest kids I've ever seen in their lives.
[01:09:03]  So I do think most Indians feel that way.
[01:09:05]  And that's why I wanted to put this out because I don't think that was getting represented within mainstream.
[01:09:10]  I don't want to say mainstream media, but yeah, mainstream media wasn't really representing what I thought most Indians actually felt, which is, come on, let's just work hard and go be doctors and then marry women and make our kids doctors.
[01:09:22]  Do you feel that it's different as a Mexican American?
[01:09:25]  Because I understand you were misidentified as a Mexican American for much of your youth growing up in Dallas.
[01:09:30]  Yeah, you did your research, Megan.
[01:09:31]  Good for you.
[01:09:33]  I thought it was funny.
[01:09:34]  Like, oh my gosh, you've been many minorities.
[01:09:37]  Have you been attacked more as a Mexican or as an Indian?
[01:09:39]  Like, how did that go?
[01:09:40]  Mexican in Texas was fine.
[01:09:42]  The only thing that was just slightly annoying is every time my principal in middle school saw me, he used to say, hola, amigo.
[01:09:48]  And I always, it took me a while to realize he did it every time he saw me.
[01:09:51]  Today, you're thinking, oh, yeah, no, he got in no trouble.
[01:09:55]  I was just like, this is weird.
[01:09:57]  And then I realized what happened.
[01:09:59]  And after 9 11, it was kind of, you know, you're in Texas, they didn't know any nuance about things.
[01:10:04]  So I was in high school and I definitely dealt with some bullying and some issues, but.
[01:10:08]  Again, I don't look at that as victimhood.
[01:10:09]  I look at that as, you know, rough times.
[01:10:12]  Yeah.
[01:10:12]  Yeah.
[01:10:13]  Actually, you know, one of my friends, one of my closest friends is Pakistani, and she talks about that too.
[01:10:18]  And help me understand how whenever there is a terrorist attack or something like that, you know, it's just you get more looks and you get more sort of the side glance, and people seeming more afraid.
[01:10:27]  And this is a beautiful, amazing woman who's a mom of four kids.
[01:10:31]  It's not like she, anybody would reasonably perceive this woman as potentially a threat in any way, except maybe in a yoga studio.
[01:10:38]  Yeah.
[01:10:38]  But yeah, I can understand.
[01:10:39]  If even she's feeling it, then certainly a man who looks as she does would feel the same.
[01:10:44]  Yeah.
[01:10:44]  And then also with Muslims, a lot of times the names kind of give away.
[01:10:48]  You know, I have a friend named Usama, and that's rough.
[01:10:50]  I don't care what year it is.
[01:10:52]  I don't care where you are.
[01:10:52]  That's rough.
[01:10:53]  So a lot of times with Muslims, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, whatever, it can be rough.
[01:10:56]  That is a tough one.
[01:10:58]  No, I had a friend way back when I was a lawyer, and her last name was Laden, and she had a little boy, and she named him Quinn.
[01:11:06]  Quinn Laden.
[01:11:07]  Why would you?
[01:11:07]  What the hell is she doing?
[01:11:08]  I don't know.
[01:11:09]  I was like, what are you doing?
[01:11:10]  Why?
[01:11:11]  This is post 9 11.
[01:11:14]  Michael Layden.
[01:11:17]  Change the spelling to a nice EY.
[01:11:20]  Well, don't you ever wonder?
[01:11:21]  Sometimes I do wonder, like people with a last name like Dix or Cox.
[01:11:24]  Why?
[01:11:26]  Maybe you should change it.
[01:11:27]  I don't know.
[01:11:27]  I think I would change it.
[01:11:28]  If you're a man, it's pretty solid.
[01:11:30]  If you're a man, you name him, you know what I mean?
[01:11:32]  Like Big or something.
[01:11:33]  Just get, like, you know what I mean?
[01:11:35]  You can really utilize it.
[01:11:36]  If you're a woman, it's rough.
[01:11:40]  Oh, that's so funny.
[01:11:41]  Well, that's.
[01:11:42]  That leads me to my story.
[01:11:43]  I have to tell it, Abby.
[01:11:44]  I'm sorry.
[01:11:45]  I'm going to shame you.
[01:11:46]  So, my assistant, Abby, is sitting here with me.
[01:11:48]  And we had the situation.
[01:11:50]  I can't tell you the details because I don't want to ruin anybody's childhood beliefs.
[01:11:55]  Like, it has to do with an elf.
[01:11:57]  Okay.
[01:11:57]  I'm just going to leave it at that.
[01:11:58]  And our search for an elf.
[01:12:00]  And Abby found a lovely gentleman who could help me out in my search for an elf.
[01:12:05]  And she was like, MK, I've got it.
[01:12:08]  I've got the email for you right here.
[01:12:10]  He's got the answer to your problems.
[01:12:11]  I'm like, oh, great.
[01:12:12]  What's his name?
[01:12:12]  And she said, Peter Dingwidge.
[01:12:14]  Mike Hunt.
[01:12:16]  I'm like, oh, Abby.
[01:12:20]  That's rough.
[01:12:21]  Again, that's rough.
[01:12:22]  I knew a Mike Hunt actually, but I was too young to understand how brutal of a name that was.

=== Whoopi Goldberg Backlash Story (13:58) ===

[01:12:27]  Why?
[01:12:27]  Why wouldn't you change it?
[01:12:28]  That is like a classic porky's name that is used just to abuse people.
[01:12:33]  I know, Joseph.
[01:12:34]  You know, what are people thinking?
[01:12:36]  Right.
[01:12:37]  And like heavy emphasis on the H. Joseph Hunt.
[01:12:41]  You know, you'd have to choose something that didn't, a first name that didn't end in an H.
[01:12:44]  It has to be like a hard H.
[01:12:46]  Yeah, 100%.
[01:12:48]  All right.
[01:12:48]  So we've got those problems solved.
[01:12:50]  So, Andrew Schultz was one of the funniest comedians we've ever talked to.
[01:12:53]  We've talked to some great ones.
[01:12:55]  He had me in hysterics.
[01:12:56]  I was crying.
[01:12:57]  I was laughing so hard.
[01:12:58]  He's the best.
[01:12:58]  What is your favorite subject to tackle?
[01:13:00]  Because I hear it's sports, but I'm not sure if that's true.
[01:13:05]  I love sports.
[01:13:06]  Andrew does not love it as much.
[01:13:08]  And I realized, again, I grew up in Texas.
[01:13:10]  I thought everybody loved sports.
[01:13:12]  I thought if you had a Y chromosome, you love sports.
[01:13:15]  That's why I thought Leah Thomas wanted to swim.
[01:13:17]  She was just like, look, I just want to be in sports.
[01:13:21]  So whatever, Y chromosome be damn.
[01:13:23]  Let's just swim.
[01:13:24]  That's what I thought that was about.
[01:13:26]  But apparently, I'm in a fairly small minority.
[01:13:29]  Yeah.
[01:13:29]  No, I don't know.
[01:13:30]  I think most men do love sports, right?
[01:13:32]  Like I was saying today, but so many people are talking about that Brian Flores thing.
[01:13:35]  And his allegations against his team, and did they pay him money or offer him money to tank games and so on?
[01:13:40]  I was like, who is Brian Flores?
[01:13:42]  The Miami who?
[01:13:43]  Why would he take a game?
[01:13:44]  I was totally not connected to it.
[01:13:45]  Yeah.
[01:13:46]  Yeah.
[01:13:46]  I don't care about coaches' drama.
[01:13:48]  I don't.
[01:13:49]  Like, player drama, that's, I think, men's Kardashians.
[01:13:52]  Whereas, like, oh, Kyrie Irving and LeBron James didn't get along and they're in Cleveland.
[01:13:56]  I want to know that gossip.
[01:13:57]  I never have cared about what Brian Flores is doing in his life.
[01:14:00]  I couldn't care less about Brian Flores.
[01:14:02]  Hey, get a job.
[01:14:03]  I hope you get one.
[01:14:04]  There are certain stories that cross over, right?
[01:14:06]  Like, I don't know if that's one or not, but.
[01:14:08]  I do a hit once a week for this company, this news organization called GB News, Great Britain News, across the pond.
[01:14:15]  And you know what they want to talk about this week?
[01:14:17]  Whoopi Goldberg.
[01:14:18]  Like, even over there, they want to talk about Whoopi Goldberg.
[01:14:20]  I mean, there's not a British presenter on television that we would spend a week discussing over here, but they were really interested in Whoopi.
[01:14:28]  And I do think that's one of those stories that just sort of caught fire because it touches on so many things.
[01:14:33]  And since you're somebody who sort of pokes some fun at identity politics, I did think it was, I wanted to ask you because Ben Shapiro was out there saying she culturally appropriated Goldberg.
[01:14:43]  He was saying her real name is Karen Johnson.
[01:14:46]  And I guess she's not, I don't know if she's Jewish or not, but he said she culturally appropriated Goldberg.
[01:14:51]  And, you know, in today's day and age, she should be canceled for that.
[01:14:53]  Yeah, no, I, you know, it's funny the cultural appropriation comment or like conversation.
[01:14:58]  Our parents were always so happy to get culturally appropriated.
[01:15:02]  They looked at it as acceptance.
[01:15:03]  Like if they saw, you know, black actors wearing a Saudi at the Golden Globes, they would be like, oh my God, that's so cool.
[01:15:10]  We've made it.
[01:15:10]  Like, look, we're going mainstream.
[01:15:12]  So it's always funny to see the complete 180.
[01:15:15]  And I'm not saying that there can't be a nuanced discussion about it, but like a complete 180 to any cultural appropriation is horrible.
[01:15:21]  Yeah.
[01:15:21]  And hey, let Whoopi be Whoopi.
[01:15:23]  She earned the name Whoopi Goldberg.
[01:15:25]  She'd been in enough movies to be Jewish, right?
[01:15:27]  Well, I'm not sure that's exactly how it works.
[01:15:30]  I didn't know it was Karen Johnson.
[01:15:32]  My EP is telling me she is not Jewish.
[01:15:33]  So it really was an appropriation.
[01:15:35]  So yeah, no, she's now, according to reports, she's threatening to quit.
[01:15:38]  She's so mad about her two week suspension.
[01:15:40]  She doesn't think it should have happened.
[01:15:42]  And, you know, I'm kind of sitting on the sidewalks thinking, I'm not.
[01:15:45]  Pro punishment to people for their free speech, but live by the sword, but die by the sword.
[01:15:51]  You know, part of me is like, you created the culture in which this was even possible.
[01:15:56]  Why don't you swim in it for a little while and then get back to me on how you feel about cancel culture and all these warriors?
[01:16:01]  Yeah, I'm a pretty moderate dude, but one of my favorite things is watching the extreme left cannibalize themselves with wokeness.
[01:16:07]  Because as a comedian, all I want to do is talk and say wild things.
[01:16:11]  And sometimes I will overstep my bounds or whatever.
[01:16:15]  And in those times, there's nothing wrong with me apologizing.
[01:16:17]  That's something I've realized as I grew up.
[01:16:19]  But also, I should be allowed to keep making the jokes.
[01:16:21]  I failed.
[01:16:22]  You told me I failed.
[01:16:23]  Now let me keep trying to make it better.
[01:16:25]  So it is funny when the group of people who cannot stand this at all.
[01:16:29]  Are slowly realizing none of us are perfect and every one of them is cancelable.
[01:16:33]  That's kind of funny to watch.
[01:16:35]  Do you think?
[01:16:35]  But I also, yeah, go ahead.
[01:16:38]  I also think Whoopi's just old.
[01:16:40]  And I don't mean old like she's 60 or whatever.
[01:16:42]  I mean, she's been working for 30 years.
[01:16:44]  She's rich beyond any amount of money any of us could ever dream of.
[01:16:47]  I think she's just like, I don't need this.
[01:16:50]  Suspend me.
[01:16:50]  Who cares?
[01:16:51]  I'll just quit.
[01:16:52]  I don't think she's really going to quit.
[01:16:53]  I think it's just like one of those threats.
[01:16:55]  She's not going to quit.
[01:16:56]  She loves that job.
[01:16:56]  It keeps her relevant, keeps her voice and face in the news.
[01:17:00]  And it's basically just a, hmm.
[01:17:01]  To ABC, I don't, I just to let people know she didn't, she wasn't pleased, but there's no way they're firing her, there's zero chance of them firing her.
[01:17:09]  And I don't even think the heart was in the suspension, that was just like a bone to throw to the nasty, complaining, whining little internal staffers.
[01:17:17]  Yeah, they complain about everything.
[01:17:19]  I bet you those staffers didn't give a about Jews yesterday, they couldn't have cared less about anti Semitism, but now because it's like some rich, powerful uh, woman that you know they resent because they're never going to have one fraction of her success, they're like, Yes, my god, the Jews, we have to fight.
[01:17:35]  For them, I guarantee you.
[01:17:37]  It is funny to watch a bunch of like spoiled, snot nosed little kids basically say Whoopi Goldberg has had an easy life and she's privileged when they have no idea that probably the shit she dealt with as a black woman named Whoopi Goldberg being dark skin and to still become this legend.
[01:17:52]  And she could say, you know, she could say some stuff.
[01:17:56]  We could look at it contextually.
[01:17:58]  She was trying to make a larger point.
[01:17:59]  It was a, you know, it was a horrible way to make it, but whatever.
[01:18:02]  I love the thing.
[01:18:03]  It was like, let's just get this over with, come back in two weeks.
[01:18:06]  We treat everything, this comment, every comment like it's like, this is very serious.
[01:18:12]  This is deeply alarming.
[01:18:14]  It's like, well, she said something dumb.
[01:18:16]  And okay, I get it.
[01:18:17]  You know, I've listened to the case, anti Semitic.
[01:18:19]  I get the argument, but it's like, people, all this stuff is complicated.
[01:18:24]  The Holocaust is a little less complicated.
[01:18:26]  That one's pretty clear.
[01:18:27]  Okay.
[01:18:27]  So I grant you, she stepped in it.
[01:18:30]  But we're just so quick to be, you know, to cut each other down and act holier than thou and pretend that we never could make a rhetorical mistake.
[01:18:38]  And then we relish.
[01:18:39]  We relish when somebody, especially rich and powerful, starts to fall.
[01:18:43]  Yes.
[01:18:44]  I think how I interpreted it was she was trying to make a larger point about how inhumanity is like the real cancer in the world.
[01:18:52]  And I think you can't ever compare the Holocaust to anything or say the Holocaust.
[01:18:56]  You know what I mean?
[01:18:57]  Like it was just a poor example.
[01:18:59]  But I also think people who want to cancel people, it's so funny that everybody has a podcast and they want to cancel other podcasters because.
[01:19:08]  Like the podcaster said something that was offensive.
[01:19:11]  You speak, of course, of Mary Trump and her deadly threat to withdraw her podcast from Spotify unless they pull Joe Rogan.
[01:19:17]  You know, Mary.
[01:19:20]  Yeah, all these people, if you are talking for hours a day, and especially if you're trying to be entertaining, you are going to say stupid things.
[01:19:28]  It is inevitable.
[01:19:29]  And the reason your podcast, if you're one of these unsuccessful people trying to cancel successful podcasters, you probably haven't said anything offensive because your podcast sucks.
[01:19:37]  Nobody wants to listen to it, it's boring as hell.
[01:19:40]  A fun podcast is going to be offensive at times or going to overstep boundaries at times.
[01:19:45]  That is the cost of doing business when you're being entertaining.
[01:19:48]  It's so true.
[01:19:49]  And honestly, I think about these people who are like, bring her down, bring her down.
[01:19:52]  She said something and bring him down, whoever it is.
[01:19:54]  And I know, like, I'm comforted by the fact because I've actually worked with these people.
[01:19:57]  I knew a few of these people that they wake up on Saturday morning and their loveless, sexless lives and look around at their lame, boring apartments and think, my life sucks.
[01:20:06]  Who else can I cancel for that momentary soothing balm?
[01:20:09]  But they go right back to zero, right?
[01:20:11]  And I've even had some of those people who try to play that card on me call me up later and say, like, oh, I would love to have a job.
[01:20:17]  And it's so fun ignoring them.
[01:20:19]  My God, it feels so good.
[01:20:21]  Hey, I love that philosophy.
[01:20:23]  Good for you.
[01:20:24]  Keep ignoring them or have an assistant text them.
[01:20:27]  Whatever you want to say from another phone, so they know you want to cuss them out, but it's not even worth your fingers being used.
[01:20:33]  Oh, wow.
[01:20:34]  What are you saying?
[01:20:34]  Like, she gets a burner phone?
[01:20:35]  What am I doing with Abby?
[01:20:37]  No, I just got signed, Mike Hunt.
[01:20:41]  Yeah, this is Megan's assistant.
[01:20:43]  She wanted to tell you this, but you weren't worth her actually typing a text.
[01:20:46]  So here we go.
[01:20:47]  And then just quotes, and then whatever you want to say, go fuck yourself or whatever.
[01:20:50]  There it is.
[01:20:51]  Yeah, God, that's what you really do want to say, but you have to say it with your silence sometimes.
[01:20:55]  Now, what are you, speaking of podcasters trying to cover other podcasters and Mary Trump and her?
[01:20:59]  Deadly threat.
[01:21:01]  Spotify, they came out today.
[01:21:03]  I think it was the CEO and said, I got free speech and we got Joe Rogan's back and so on.
[01:21:08]  But the left is not listening.
[01:21:10]  But day by day, we get more like, I don't know, 60s rockers, like retirement age, like whatever.
[01:21:18]  They're all on social security now, pulling their music and someone trying to threaten Joe Rogan.
[01:21:23]  And I heard you and Andrew talking about this.
[01:21:25]  The threat is not so much that they pulled Joe Rogan, the threat is.
[01:21:29]  That one day they set their sights on you or somebody who doesn't have quite as much power as Joe Rogan, and you're a much easier target.
[01:21:36]  Yes, 100%.
[01:21:37]  And I actually think I had this conversation on another podcast, and I think I even said it in my own.
[01:21:43]  I'm not as worried about that because I think at the end of the day, people want authenticity.
[01:21:47]  And I think if you are trying to be authentic to what you truly believe and not being performative for either side, a large swath of people will come to you and support you, and you will have fans and support in that sense always.
[01:21:58]  But I think the more dangerous part of this is the side that disagrees with me is radioactive.
[01:22:03]  And if I engage with them at all, I'm a traitor in some form or fashion.
[01:22:07]  And we'll silence anybody we disagree with.
[01:22:09]  I truly think this is a much larger problem than me and my career or whatever.
[01:22:13]  I think that's a really bad thing for the country.
[01:22:16]  I think it's like toxic.
[01:22:18]  And I think as we continue on this divergent path, I truly do worry about, again, beyond cancellation and whatever, this idea that you can just silence the other side if you don't agree with them.
[01:22:27]  I don't know if America survives if we keep doing that.
[01:22:30]  You, that reminds me of a joke I heard you say.
[01:22:32]  People always say, name one thing a white male can't have.
[01:22:35]  Do you remember how you finished it?
[01:22:37]  Yes.
[01:22:37]  Okay.
[01:22:38]  An opinion.
[01:22:40]  And I truly feel that way.
[01:22:43]  I want everybody to be honest with me.
[01:22:45]  White dude, whatever.
[01:22:46]  Be honest.
[01:22:46]  Even if you are racist, at least I know.
[01:22:48]  I'm not going to be friends with you, but at least I know to stay away from you.
[01:22:53]  So say it.
[01:22:53]  Have whatever you want to say and let it out.
[01:22:55]  I think a lot of toxicity gets created by forcing people to bury everything.
[01:22:59]  And then all their silent thoughts get angrier and angrier.
[01:23:02]  And it just turns into a dark, dark, toxic thing.
[01:23:05]  So do you go stand up, do stand up in clubs and so on?
[01:23:09]  Yeah, I'll do stand up in clubs.
[01:23:10]  I'm actually in a hotel room right now.
[01:23:12]  I'm going to do Richmond, Virginia tonight and tomorrow.
[01:23:15]  And how long have you been doing that for?
[01:23:17]  Like, you know, since you decided not to go the doctor route, how many years have you been doing that?
[01:23:21]  It was a huge mistake.
[01:23:22]  Any Indians who might be listening, go the doctor route.
[01:23:24]  Don't listen to me.
[01:23:25]  Don't follow your dreams.
[01:23:27]  It's not worth it.
[01:23:28]  I'm very happy now, but it was a lot of not worth it stuff.
[01:23:33]  Okay, good.
[01:23:34]  You heard it here first.
[01:23:35]  Yeah, 100%.
[01:23:36]  15 years, though, I've been doing this.
[01:23:37]  Oh, seven, I think I started doing this, like, really doing this full time.
[01:23:41]  So 15 years this month, February.
[01:23:43]  So, how's it changed, right, on the PC culture front from 15 years ago to now?
[01:23:48]  Man, it's so funny.
[01:23:49]  And I think as a comedian, you just get annoyed by the loudest voices you hear around you.
[01:23:53]  So, when I was growing up, I was very like in Texas, especially with a lot of extreme conservatives.
[01:23:58]  I was a much more liberal person.
[01:24:00]  All my jokes would kind of be poking fun at the right.
[01:24:03]  And then when I moved to New York and LA, probably around 2009, you started to feel this shift of like the left is getting more extreme and more censoring and whatever.
[01:24:13]  And now most of my jokes are poking fun at them.
[01:24:16]  And it's very funny that I don't know if you remember Eminem and all the soccer moms wanting to burn his CDs because he said like homophobic things or whatever.
[01:24:25]  And we laughed at them.
[01:24:27]  The left has become those people.
[01:24:29]  They laughed at those right wing soccer moms and now they are the soccer mom, but they don't even have kids.
[01:24:33]  So they're really just losers.
[01:24:36]  Right.
[01:24:36]  It's true.
[01:24:37]  I mean, do you, but do you self censor?
[01:24:39]  Like when you stand up, I mean, Richmond's that's more, well, Richmond's not that conservative, but it's more conservative in the South in general.
[01:24:45]  Do you have to censor in a community like that or more when you're in the Northeast or Canada or where?
[01:24:50]  You know, it's funny.
[01:24:51]  I used to really love performing for right wing audiences because there was this one thing you can't talk about and that's Jesus.
[01:24:55]  And I'm a, I'm Hindu, but I'm a religious guy.
[01:24:58]  So that's easy for me to not disrespect.
[01:24:59]  But there has become a Sensitivity on both sides that there's a lot of snowflake culture in comedy in general.
[01:25:06]  But at the end of the day, I forget how little I am.
[01:25:09]  I'm five, seven, and I can't fight, but I forget that on stage.
[01:25:13]  So I will say what I want to say, and I'll try to say it in an intelligent, funny way.
[01:25:17]  But if you have a problem with it on that stage, we're just going to have it out.
[01:25:20]  I'll die on that stage.
[01:25:21]  Oh, really?
[01:25:22]  I have almost died on that stage a couple of times.
[01:25:24]  I thought you were going to say, I just run.
[01:25:25]  I mean, that's what I would do.
[01:25:26]  No, no, no.
[01:25:27]  I've had to run, but for my life.
[01:25:28]  You know what I mean?
[01:25:29]  Yeah.
[01:25:30]  But I stand there and I do my time.
[01:25:31]  And then as soon as time is up, then I bolt like the bitch I am.
[01:25:35]  What subjects can you not touch?
[01:25:36]  Like, what other than Jesus, what would you just like?
[01:25:38]  No way, toxic or radial.
[01:25:41]  You have to be very careful talking about any like LGBTQ things.
[01:25:47]  And again, I'm not going to not talk about it, but I have to.
[01:25:49]  And this, it's not the worst thing because then I have to actually think about how I really feel about a thing.
[01:25:55]  And generally, I just don't like when things go to extremes.
[01:25:58]  So, like, all right, that's how I can present a joke and I can figure it out.
[01:26:01]  And there's a lot of like, there's a lot of snowflake culture with like Trump stuff.
[01:26:05]  Like, if you bring up Trump, They automatically assume you're going to say he's the biggest, you know, piece of shit in the world.
[01:26:12]  And I'm not the biggest fan of him, but he's hilarious.
[01:26:15]  So I would like to, you know, have a nuanced Trump joke.
[01:26:17]  But a lot of times on the right, the second you bring up that name, it's inflammatory, booze, whatever.
[01:26:23]  They don't even let you get through a sentence.
[01:26:24]  So it can be.

=== Snowflake Culture and Nuance (05:57) ===

[01:26:25]  That's interesting.
[01:26:26]  Yeah, no, I understand what you're saying.
[01:26:29]  I've experienced some of that.
[01:26:30]  I mean, forget, you know, when I had a dust up with him, but even I've had some viewers be like, you say one thing that's critical of Trump, and you could say things all day long that's critical of Trump or Biden, either one of them.
[01:26:39]  But, um, And they're like, you turned on the president.
[01:26:42]  It's like, it's not my job to support him.
[01:26:45]  It's not my job to support any of these politicians.
[01:26:47]  It's my job to hold them to account.
[01:26:49]  Like, if you want just a bootlicker, you should listen to a different show.
[01:26:53]  I'm not that person.
[01:26:54]  100%.
[01:26:55]  Yeah.
[01:26:55]  It is your job to report the news.
[01:26:57]  If it makes you feel any better, my wife is in journalism school right now.
[01:27:01]  And you were one of the reasons because she said, here's a girl who is nuanced in her views.
[01:27:06]  And it helped her understand that, like, there is a room for this in journalism.
[01:27:11]  Oh, that's so nice to hear.
[01:27:13]  There is room.
[01:27:14]  And honestly, it doesn't lead to the easiest path.
[01:27:17]  You know, I would say it's not necessarily the smoothest time you'll have in life, but it's interesting.
[01:27:22]  It's fun.
[01:27:22]  And I think it's ethically honest.
[01:27:24]  You know what I mean?
[01:27:25]  It's like, I'm nobody's sycophant.
[01:27:27]  I've said that before and it's true.
[01:27:29]  And if you want that, you can find it so easily.
[01:27:31]  It's so many channels on the dial.
[01:27:33]  Yeah, 100%.
[01:27:35]  And I do think it's a much harder road, but authenticity is always rewarded for decades, whereas inauthenticity is always rewarded for like months or years or whatever.
[01:27:43]  And then you're just done.
[01:27:45]  That's good.
[01:27:45]  If you're authentic, you have a future long term.
[01:27:48]  So now you're going to release this special on YouTube.
[01:27:51]  And what's the goal?
[01:27:51]  Like, can you get.
[01:27:53]  Can you make it via YouTube, right?
[01:27:55]  Or do you need like an HBO special or, you know, a Netflix deal like Dave Chappelle?
[01:28:00]  I mean, that's the ultimate, I realize, but can you make it with a big YouTube special and videos?
[01:28:06]  And I think Andrew, my co host, is the first guy in our generation to kind of like crack the code of actually, you know, we used to just wait with our hands underneath us, like, hey, hopefully the network will give me something.
[01:28:18]  And then he got denied by every network and then said, you know what, I'm just going to put it out to the people.
[01:28:21]  And then his ticket sales, you know, went up 10x.
[01:28:24]  And that's, you know, obviously, that's what I want to happen with this special.
[01:28:27]  But also, I do think long term, Russell Peters, who's a legendary Indian comic, one of the reasons I became a comic, he sold out stadiums and it really happened through YouTube.
[01:28:38]  So I think it is possible.
[01:28:40]  I'm not saying no to any network ever, but I want to do it on my terms.
[01:28:44]  And the easiest way to do that when you're not kind of cashing in on victimhood currency is to put it out on YouTube for the people directly to them.
[01:28:51]  Do they censor comedians the way they censor, you know, people having interviews about COVID?
[01:28:58]  There's not an active censorship, but there is a kind of like roundabout censorship where, and I don't think they're like nefarious in nature, but a lot of these industry leaders tend to put on like a specific kind of minority act or whatever.
[01:29:13]  They tend to put on things that they like.
[01:29:15]  And for Indians, it has been a lot of the victim stuff.
[01:29:18]  And I think there's some well meaning white people who probably feel guilty about whatever history.
[01:29:23]  And that kind of allows them to feel better like, oh, I can't be bad if I put this guy on and he's calling me bad.
[01:29:30]  I must be a good person.
[01:29:31]  I didn't want to do that because, again, it seems so phony.
[01:29:34]  So I will rather just do my thing my way.
[01:29:37]  And you can try to cancel me, but the people who support me, I'm going to be fine with them.
[01:29:41]  Well, and the bring back a poo thing is, you know, it's the Hank Azaria character, voiced character on The Simpsons who got effectively canceled by The Simpsons because they decided not to have, quote, white people voice characters of color.
[01:29:55]  And there, I know, it was a very controversial move.
[01:29:58]  A lot of people were like, why?
[01:29:59]  Why is that necessary?
[01:30:01]  But Hank Azaria, I don't know, he did it.
[01:30:03]  And now, They may be bringing back a poo from what I read.
[01:30:06]  The creator of the Simpsons said recently something like, I've got something amazing planned, but that was all he said.
[01:30:11]  Well, look, if it happens, I'm going to take credit for it because of my special.
[01:30:15]  So, whatever, if it happens, they need to know that it's because of me.
[01:30:19]  Well, you know, your next special should be Bring Back the Seven Dwarves because they could use some help too.
[01:30:25]  Can you believe that whole thing?
[01:30:28]  Yeah, dude, this guy's taking work from the dwarf community.
[01:30:32]  Peter Dinklage.
[01:30:33]  Yeah, you want to be the only dwarf working?
[01:30:35]  That's a terrible thing.
[01:30:37]  No, I want my people to win.
[01:30:38]  I also do think there's a weird thing, and I don't know if this is what he's doing, but I've noticed like this again with Indians.
[01:30:44]  Anytime anybody has an Indian accent on a movie or TV or whatever, it's offensive.
[01:30:49]  To me, there were auditions I passed on with that kind of thing, but not because of an accent.
[01:30:54]  I'm not embarrassed by that accent.
[01:30:55]  My parents have that accent.
[01:30:56]  It's beautiful.
[01:30:57]  I think what you're saying, what are the jokes making fun of my culture?
[01:31:01]  Then I don't want to do it.
[01:31:03]  It's a little bit offensive.
[01:31:04]  But if he's just a funny guy who happens to have an accent, that's every Indian uncle I know.
[01:31:08]  And I'll say the same thing about the seven dwarves.
[01:31:10]  Why don't you wait to see how they depict them before you decide that your activism, as you call it, was all wasted?
[01:31:16]  Just give it a second, dog.
[01:31:17]  Let it breathe.
[01:31:18]  It is crazy how Peter Dinklage goes on to become, I mean, the most famous, well known actor.
[01:31:27]  And he sort of picks up the ladder behind him and rolls it in.
[01:31:31]  And all these dwarves who had been cast in the film are like, hey, yo, man, this is bullshit.
[01:31:37]  Like, let us act.
[01:31:39]  We were excited about these roles.
[01:31:40]  And now that you've got your millions and your power, We don't get to because you find it offensive.
[01:31:45]  Why don't you consult with us?
[01:31:48]  And I don't even, if he's offended by it after he sees it, I get it.
[01:31:51]  If there's still seven dwarves living in a tree called, you know, dummy and dopey and sleepy or whatever.
[01:31:55]  All right, cool.
[01:31:56]  Maybe we as a society have gone past that.
[01:31:58]  But wait and see how they're depicted before you say anything.
[01:32:02]  That's all I'm saying.
[01:32:03]  If you want to find that offensive, I get how it could be.
[01:32:05]  I do.
[01:32:06]  But wait and see before you just take work from people.
[01:32:09]  Well, it's like the remember when Scarlett Johansson was cast to play a transgender person and the trans community objected because she's not trans?
[01:32:18]  And they were like, oh, you're right.
[01:32:20]  We're so sorry.
[01:32:21]  How could we be so insensitive?

=== Hollywood Roles and Offense (04:50) ===

[01:32:22]  Guess what?
[01:32:23]  That film was never made.
[01:32:24]  They pulled, she pulled, they pulled.
[01:32:27]  The film was never made.
[01:32:27]  So now we don't get to see the film that was going to highlight the trans community in a way that they probably would have loved.
[01:32:32]  And I'll tell you what, it would cure a lot of transphobia if they saw that trans people could be as hot as Scarlett Johansson.
[01:32:39]  People need to see that.
[01:32:40]  They need to know that.
[01:32:41]  If you are transphobic, you need to know because a lot of them, I think, have a very set idea of what trans people are.
[01:32:48]  And I actually think that show Euphoria shows this really beautiful woman, trans woman, born a male.
[01:32:54]  And I think I would hope people who could be transphobic are looking at that and being like, Oh, okay.
[01:32:58]  I have these preconceived notions about what trans people are.
[01:33:01]  It doesn't have to be that.
[01:33:02]  Dude, Scarlett Johansson?
[01:33:03]  If a trans person could look like Scarlett Johansson, I'd get a sex change.
[01:33:08]  Or at least consider cheating on the side with one.
[01:33:11]  All right, let's switch gears because I have to ask you about Dave Portnoy.
[01:33:16]  You guys talk about sports.
[01:33:17]  He's in the news again.
[01:33:19]  I mean, I don't know what's going on, but he's getting accused over and over by Business Insider, right?
[01:33:25]  Insider.
[01:33:27]  Once again, they love to find people that Dave has slept with.
[01:33:30]  Young women and take a long list of their complaints and then put it in the magazine.
[01:33:35]  And it sounds terrible whenever they print it.
[01:33:37]  I'm like, oh my God, whatever you do, do not sleep with Dave Portnoy.
[01:33:41]  And I continue to feel that way, by the way.
[01:33:42]  And I like Dave, but I continue to feel that way.
[01:33:44]  However, if you look into the stories, then you realize, and whatever you do, don't take these stories at face value.
[01:33:52]  Because once again, you have the magazine reporting, the publication reporting that he abused women.
[01:33:58]  There's one woman who they say she broke her shoulder or her clavicle.
[01:34:05]  Her rib, okay, a little lower.
[01:34:07]  And then you start to read the exchanges and hear, like, she's celebrating all of it.
[01:34:12]  She's talking to him in this one text exchange, which he then released about another guy.
[01:34:17]  He says, The woman says, Oh, he's aggressive, but like scary aggressive.
[01:34:21]  Ha ha.
[01:34:21]  Dave says, Tell me about it.
[01:34:23]  She says, He would pin me down, choke me a little, slap me around a little, bite me, but he likes when I'm in control too.
[01:34:30]  Dave says, Tougher than me, rougher.
[01:34:33]  And then she says, No one can top your aggressiveness.
[01:34:35]  Trust me.
[01:34:36]  When another guy, Breaks one of my ribs, only then will you have a contender.
[01:34:40]  Ha ha ha.
[01:34:41]  And she goes on, and these women continued to call him.
[01:34:45]  How does, I mean, I don't even, what do you, how do you view it?
[01:34:49]  Because Jason Whitlock and I had an epic argument about this the last time it happened, where I was being kind of tough on the women and he was defensive of them and he was being very tough on Dave and I was being defensive of him.
[01:35:00]  Where do you land?
[01:35:02]  I don't, I mean, so if you read these stories, like you just read that text exchange and that's like, if he actually broke a rib, That's a little wild.
[01:35:11]  I mean, even if she likes it rough, you can't be breaking ribs.
[01:35:15]  But I do think overall, when I step back from the issue, that I don't have a more macroscopic view.
[01:35:19]  I don't want to get micro because I don't know all the facts.
[01:35:22]  But macroscopically, I really believe this guy's going to be president within the next 10 to 20 years.
[01:35:26]  I truly believe that.
[01:35:28]  He is a master of the same thing Trump is a master of, which is when you come at me, I am doubling down.
[01:35:33]  I'm not running from any controversy.
[01:35:35]  I take you head on and let's go.
[01:35:37]  And there is, again, I think there's something we're drawn to with that, there's an authenticity.
[01:35:41]  I think if he got a little bit meek and apologized and did the Hollywood, you know, have a lawyer write you, I'm sorry if any of these women felt uncomfortable.
[01:35:48]  Cool, you can maybe still get your Hollywood roles, but general people are going to be like, ugh.
[01:35:53]  That's so see through.
[01:35:54]  And so many of these women, quote, slid into his DMs and asked for sex.
[01:35:58]  It's like, ladies, that's a terrible idea.
[01:36:02]  And guess what?
[01:36:02]  It can wind up with you getting hurt in ways you didn't expect and making a fool out of yourself.
[01:36:06]  And then you really are going to have to think twice before you run to the press to talk about what a victim you are.
[01:36:12]  I believe in personal responsibility and accountability.
[01:36:14]  El Presidente Portnoy, stranger things have happened.
[01:36:18]  Akash, thank you so much for being with us.
[01:36:20]  Thank you so much.
[01:36:21]  Thank you.
[01:36:21]  Okay, so now his special, Bring Back Up Who, is out on YouTube this week.
[01:36:25]  Week, keep an eye out for it.
[01:36:26]  You're going to love it.
[01:36:27]  Jason Riley is coming back on Monday.
[01:36:31]  I love him.
[01:36:33]  We're going to talk with him about some breaking news out of New York City.
[01:36:36]  The New York Post reporting that DA Alvin Bragg, the soft on crime guy, is reversing course on some of his most controversial policies and making armed robberies felonies again.
[01:36:46]  Oh, great.
[01:36:47]  Let that be a lesson to the other soft on crime DAs nationwide.
[01:36:50]  In the meantime, go ahead and download The Megan Kelly Show on Apple, Pandora, Spotify, and Stitcher and go to youtube.com slash Megan Kelly.
[01:36:56]  Do me a favor and subscribe.
[01:36:58]  Thanks for listening.
[01:36:59]  Have a great weekend.
[01:37:02]  Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.
[01:37:04]  No BS, no agenda, and no fear.