The Megyn Kelly Show - 20210308_oprahs-meghan-and-harry-bombshell-with-dan-wootton
Aired: 2021-03-08
Duration: 01:35:49


=== The Wrong Narrative (14:15) ===

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[00:00:50]  Velkommen til The Megyn Kelly Show.
[00:00:52]  Du er hjem for åpne, honest og provokative conversasjoner.
[00:00:59]  We will be able to register the registration and the registration of the registration and the registration of the registration.
[00:01:02]  The registration of the registration of regist the interview with Meghan and Harry last night.
[00:01:31]  And we're going to bring you a brand new initiative that's underway here in the United States to fight back against cancel culture.
[00:01:35]  Those are our two topics today.
[00:01:36]  I know you may say, I don't care about the royals.
[00:01:37]  Yes, you do.
[00:01:37]  Don't you want to know what happened?
[00:01:38]  Here's why I care, because these two are the ultimate examples of victimization, right?
[00:01:41]  The victimization culture.
[00:01:42]  You can be a prince.
[00:01:42]  You can be the prince of England and still find nothing but victimization in your life, which is baloney.
[00:01:45]  But these two are on full display last night about how hard they have it.
[00:01:47]  Forget all of you who've lost your jobs thanks to the COVID shutdown.
[00:01:49]  Forget those people who are suffering from loss of life in their family thanks to COVID.
[00:01:51]  The real victims this past year have been Meghan and Harry because she was lonely in the palace.
[00:01:56]  She was lonely and the press wrote mean things about her that made her very, very upset.
[00:02:02]  As she gets into mental health, and that's upsetting, I understand what she alleged about what the royal family says about her baby, what the royal family drove her to feel.
[00:02:10]  Emotionally, that's dark.
[00:02:13]  That's not good.
[00:02:14]  And the royal family is going to have to respond to that.
[00:02:16]  But how she got there is a mystery to me.
[00:02:19]  It is a mystery.
[00:02:21]  She had it all and continues to have it all.
[00:02:24]  But she wants you to understand that she's the real victim.
[00:02:26]  She really is the real victim.
[00:02:27]  And by the way, she says pretty explicitly, she has no regrets.
[00:02:30]  She did nothing wrong other than trust these guys.
[00:02:33]  That's what she told Oprah.
[00:02:34]  The only thing she regrets is putting her trust in the royal family that they would quote, protect her.
[00:02:39]  Okay, so we're going to get into it because we're going to have this great guy.
[00:02:41]  His name is Dan Wooten.
[00:02:43]  He's of GB News, Great Britain News, and DailyMail.com journalist.
[00:02:47]  And he's fired up about this.
[00:02:49]  You're going to hear from him.
[00:02:50]  And then Barry Weiss is back with us on that anti-woke, anti-critical race theory group called FAIR that we want to get you up to speed on in just one second.
[00:03:00]  That's right after this.
[00:03:05]  Dan Wooten, how are you?
[00:03:06]  Hey, Megan.
[00:03:07]  I'm great.
[00:03:08]  Thank you.
[00:03:09]  I am really looking forward to this conversation.
[00:03:11]  I know a lot of people don't care about the Royals.
[00:03:13]  But I think we all care about human behavior.
[00:03:16]  And to me, what we saw last night is the ultimate example of what we're seeing in both of our countries, coast to coast already, which is this leaning into one's perceived victimization.
[00:03:32]  They are the ultimate example of this, Dan.
[00:03:36]  You can marry a prince.
[00:03:38]  You can move into a castle.
[00:03:40]  You can wear a tiara at your wedding and be adorned in $5,000 outfits and diamonds.
[00:03:47]  still play the victim.
[00:03:50]  You still get to play the victim.
[00:03:52]  Even Harry, who's going to pay for my security?
[00:03:55]  How about you, Harry?
[00:03:58]  How about you with the $16 million you inherited from your mother.
[00:04:02]  You're going to have to pay for it yourself, like real people now.
[00:04:06]  Anyway, okay, that's my overview, Dan.
[00:04:08]  But I'm interested in what you think because you've been covering these guys from the beginning and breaking tons of news on them.
[00:04:13]  Well, no, I completely agree, Megan.
[00:04:16]  I think their victimhood now seeps through everything that they do.
[00:04:21]  And I mean, you were talking about two of the most privileged human beings on this planet.
[00:04:25]  You know, they are global superstars, they are actual.
[00:04:30]  Royalty.
[00:04:31]  They are rich beyond any of our wildest dreams to the point that they actually didn't have to work another day in their life.
[00:04:38]  If they did just want to retire from the spotlight, they could have done that.
[00:04:42]  And so I found the interview disturbing in loads of ways, particularly because I don't think they have accurately presented how the royal family really treated them.
[00:04:56]  And actually, Megan, I remember coming on to your show on NBC in Windsor.
[00:05:03]  Day when they got married.
[00:05:05]  And come on, you know, you saw it.
[00:05:07]  The British public were behind this couple.
[00:05:10]  We wanted them to succeed.
[00:05:12]  This idea that there is this toxic racism dominating the way that the British media or the British public treated Meghan and Harry, not only do I think it's untrue, I think it's offensive.
[00:05:26]  It's the same as we're seeing right now at much lower levels.
[00:05:30]  We're like, we common civilians, which is everything's about race.
[00:05:34]  She sees everything through the prism of race.
[00:05:36]  Now, we'll get to her allegation about there's a raging racist within the royal family.
[00:05:41]  But I mean, she dismissed the tabloids as racist just today.
[00:05:45]  They released an additional clip on CBS News saying everything was different with respect to her negative coverage because of race and social media.
[00:05:54]  Well, they're not the only ones to ever deal with social media, first of all.
[00:05:57]  And yes, there were definitely some racist articles about Meghan in the paper, as there always are some awful articles about racism, sexism, pick your poison.
[00:06:07]  There are always going to be a few that are really unpleasant.
[00:06:10]  But she and he paint with such a broad brush.
[00:06:14]  It's all about racism.
[00:06:16]  It's nothing about their own behavior.
[00:06:19]  Exactly.
[00:06:20]  And that narrative is just wrong because, Megan, as you pointed out at the start of the interview, I was actually covering this couple from before the royal wedding, and there wasn't anything negative published by me.
[00:06:34]  It was only months after the wedding.
[00:06:37]  So we're sort of talking at this point about November and December 2018.
[00:06:42]  When some negative stories did start to appear, and this was not because the media wanted to create a negative narrative towards Meghan Markle, it was because there were people behind the scenes within the royal family, including the principals Meghan, which means you know the Queen and Charles and William, who were very disturbed by Meghan's behavior.
[00:07:05]  So, I actually revealed that the Queen herself had warned Prince Harry over Meghan's.
[00:07:13]  Behavior before the wedding.
[00:07:14]  It was her attitude following this big row over what tiara she wore ridiculously.
[00:07:20]  And then in December 2018, there were the first signs of the rift between Kate and Meghan.
[00:07:26]  Now, Meghan would have you believe that this was all because they were having a row over the dresses that flower girls were going to wear at the wedding.
[00:07:35]  But that isn't true, Meghan.
[00:07:36]  It was actually because Kate had heard Meghan speak to staff members at Kensington Palace in a manner that she considered inappropriate.
[00:07:46]  Appropriate.
[00:07:47]  And Kate said to her, These are my staff.
[00:07:49]  You don't speak to them that way.
[00:07:51]  And we now know that there were recorded accusations of bullying by Jason Canal, who was at the time the communications secretary.
[00:08:01]  For Prince Harry and Meghan.
[00:08:04]  And he said that Meghan was bullying junior female staff members.
[00:08:09]  Now, it's unfortunate, isn't it, that that allegation came out after Oprah interviewed Meghan?
[00:08:16]  Because I would like to know how she responded to those allegations of bullying, given that she's talking so much about being the bullied one.
[00:08:25]  Of course.
[00:08:26]  I mean, literally, they asked her, Oprah asked her if she has any regrets about her own behavior, any regrets at all.
[00:08:32]  And she has none.
[00:08:34]  She behaved.
[00:08:35]  Perfectly, Dan.
[00:08:36]  Her only regret was that she trusted them, that she trusted these jerks to protect her.
[00:08:42]  I mean, she takes zero responsibility for anything she did.
[00:08:46]  And that report about her behavior to human resources or whatever about how she bullied the young female staffers.
[00:08:52]  As you point out, that was made to over two years ago.
[00:08:55]  This isn't like oh, just knowing she's going on Oprah, somebody ran and complained about her behavior a couple years after the fact.
[00:09:02]  It happened by a very senior guy who worked for Harry AND Megan at the time who was trying to protect these young women Who she was running out.
[00:09:09]  And think about how bad you'd have to be.
[00:09:11]  If you're a young woman and you get a job working for Meghan and Harry, right?
[00:09:14]  Like the prince and his wife, you're psyched.
[00:09:19]  Think of what it would take to make you quit that job.
[00:09:21]  But they did.
[00:09:22]  And it was reported internally at the time a couple of years ago.
[00:09:25]  Indeed.
[00:09:26]  And what's Meghan's response via friends of hers or staff members for her?
[00:09:32]  Oh, again, it's racism.
[00:09:35]  And her allies, the woke topians, claim that you hear this about.
[00:09:39]  Any famous mixed race person in showbiz or royalty.
[00:09:45]  And I disagree with that, Megan.
[00:09:47]  You don't hear reports of Gail King or Oprah or Beyonce or Jennifer Lopez being bullies to their staff members.
[00:09:55]  So again, I think it's an untrue narrative to excuse unacceptable behavior.
[00:10:02]  That's right.
[00:10:03]  And so let's just back up because I'll tell you my overall impression after watching it was there were several.
[00:10:09]  obvious whoppers.
[00:10:11]  Like, I don't know whether she was consciously lying or just self-deluding.
[00:10:16]  And if I had to put money on it, I'd put it on the ladder that she's one of those people who is just, she's gotten to this place where she sees herself as a victim through every single lens she puts on.
[00:10:25]  And therefore, when she talks about, you know, herself, she's genuinely clueless about how she sounds and how far away from reality she is.
[00:10:33]  Like her obvious lie that she didn't do any research about Harry.
[00:10:38]  She never Googled Harry.
[00:10:41]  Is there a soul alive who believes that, Dan?
[00:10:44]  Well, she was pictured outside Buckingham Palace, wasn't she, as a young girl?
[00:10:48]  And she admits, Meghan, during the course of the interview, that she's actually friends with Princess Eugenie.
[00:10:56]  And remember, this is Meghan who was spending lots of time in London looking for a famous British boyfriend, Meghan.
[00:11:02]  Now, you won't have heard of the types of British celebrities that she was targeting, but they included the footballer Ashley Cole, the X Factor winner, Matt.
[00:11:11]  Cardle, the boy band star, Max George.
[00:11:14]  These are not big household names.
[00:11:16]  She wanted a famous British boyfriend following her divorce.
[00:11:20]  And look, she hit the jackpot with Prince Harry.
[00:11:22]  I'm not saying it's not true love, but to somehow try and claim that she didn't know a thing about the royal family when she's in the UK trying to find a British man, I think begins to be.
[00:11:36]  Right.
[00:11:37]  And then she talks about how when she met the Queen, you know she just thought it's going to be like meeting a lot another la celebrity i'm from la i i see hollywood celebrities all the time she didn't realize that the queen was going to be in a different league bull i don't believe one that's not true so this is just a couple at the beginning baloney like she i was saying on good morning good morning britain oh she thought it was going to be like meeting kris jenner I'm like, oh, hi, sure.
[00:12:03]  I mean, baloney.
[00:12:05]  We all know the Queen is in a league of one.
[00:12:09]  And she was given support by staff members, Megan.
[00:12:14]  There was an acknowledgement that we can't let history repeat itself in the same way that we did with Princess Diana.
[00:12:21]  So, again, I just feel like she was looking for a narrative.
[00:12:27]  Remember, this is what Buckingham Palace staff members now think.
[00:12:29]  She was looking for a narrative from day one to suggest that this wasn't going to work.
[00:12:36]  Well, so let's talk about the thing with Kate, because she sort of puts that as the beginning of her troubles.
[00:12:41]  Yes.
[00:12:41]  Where they had this bite over the wedding.
[00:12:45]  And I think we have this sound bite from Megan.
[00:12:47]  A few days before the wedding, she was upset about something pertaining to, yes, the issue was correct about flower girl dresses.
[00:12:55]  And it made me cry.
[00:12:58]  You're saying you didn't make Kate cry, Kate made you cry.
[00:13:02]  So we all want to know what would make you cry?
[00:13:07]  What were you going through?
[00:13:09]  And there was a confrontation over the dresses.
[00:13:13]  It wasn't a confrontation.
[00:13:15]  And I actually think it's, I don't think it's fair to her to get into the details of that because she apologized.
[00:13:23]  Okay.
[00:13:23]  And I've forgiven her.
[00:13:25]  And she went on to say that I just didn't understand why she wouldn't just be supportive like everyone else, given what was going on with my dad, et cetera.
[00:13:34]  And I have to confess, I'm thinking, Bridezilla, right?
[00:13:37]  Where anybody comes to you and says something about the wedding, like, I don't want my kid to wear that dress.
[00:13:42]  And by the way, this is going to be the future Queen of England.
[00:13:44]  So she does have some reasons to think about, you know, images and so on about Princess Charlotte.
[00:13:50]  And she's like, why wouldn't she just be supportive of me?
[00:13:52]  Well, I mean, people are individuals.
[00:13:55]  They have their own thoughts.
[00:13:56]  I was like, okay, because this is the beginning of a trend that I thought where she was like, she wouldn't support me.
[00:14:01]  And then it was like, it's not like the crown.
[00:14:04]  No one tells you how to behave.
[00:14:06]  You're married to the prince.
[00:14:07]  Ask him.
[00:14:09]  Don't cry me a river that you don't have some social etiquette lady in there.
[00:14:13]  I had to Google the national anthem.

=== Bridezilla and the Dress (15:53) ===

[00:14:15]  Oh, poor thing.
[00:14:16]  You probably just figured out Google since you never ever used it for Harry.
[00:14:19]  I just like, I don't know.
[00:14:21]  You tell me what you thought about the Kate Meghan fight.
[00:14:24]  And she reads none of these stories either, remember Meghan?
[00:14:27]  But she seems to know every single detail about every single story that appears in the media.
[00:14:33]  But look, I think this was an example of Meghan wanting Kate to act like all of her Hollywood yes people.
[00:14:41]  I mean, I know the people who surround Meghan.
[00:14:43]  They are yes people to the nth degree.
[00:14:46]  They are Hollywood types.
[00:14:48]  They, you know, she tells them.
[00:14:50]  What she wants, and they deliver it, no questions asked.
[00:14:54]  And Kate feels, I believe quite rightly, that she knows the royal family, she knows protocols, she spent her time really developing from, you know, I hate to use this term, but you know, it's the term that the royals use, a commoner in the UK, to someone who is now a respected future queen.
[00:15:12]  And I think Meghan didn't like the fact that Kate wasn't prepared to go with what she wanted at this particular dress fitting.
[00:15:19]  But as I say, I think the bigger point was that Kate.
[00:15:23]  Started to realize that Meghan was employing some of these bullying tactics with young staff members.
[00:15:30]  And look, that's not how the royals behave towards their staff.
[00:15:34]  Yes, it's a hierarchical system, but there's actually a lot of respect, Meghan, between the royal servants and the principals.
[00:15:43]  And Meghan, who's used to dealing with Hollywood assistants and agents, just didn't understand that.
[00:15:49]  And then she's talking about the hell that was living in the palace.
[00:15:55]  She was, which we did up by the way, Megan, to the tune of six million bucks, the British taxpayer, to make her.
[00:16:03]  Cottage, as they call it, it's not a cottage, it's a mansion.
[00:16:06]  Basically, it looked like a branch of Soho House, you know, those very posh private members clubs in Los Angeles and New York.
[00:16:13]  And we paid for that.
[00:16:14]  And she's moaning about it.
[00:16:15]  And honestly, she's like, Well, it was like a month and a half.
[00:16:18]  And I was so lonely.
[00:16:20]  And Oprah's like, Well, wasn't Harry around?
[00:16:22]  Well, occasionally he had to take a business trip.
[00:16:24]  Are you kidding me?
[00:16:25]  Cry me a river.
[00:16:28]  People in the United States, in Great Britain and beyond have spent a year.
[00:16:34]  Losing their entire livelihoods, being locked up without being able to put their kids into school, children's suicide rate on the rise in alarming numbers because they're so isolated.
[00:16:45]  And she wants us to feel bad for her because she married the prince and she was lonely in the palace cottage?
[00:16:51]  No, I'm just saying she's so disconnected from reality, Dan, that it makes it impossible to root for her.
[00:16:58]  Well, it does.
[00:16:59]  And I know what life was like at Frogmore Cottage for Megan.
[00:17:04]  That the vast majority of us would want to live.
[00:17:06]  So she had the Queen's private chefs bringing her whatever she wanted to eat, including all of this vegan food that they're not used to preparing at Windsor, believe me, delivered to her by silver trolley at all hours of the day.
[00:17:21]  Her friends were able to come and visit her whenever she wanted.
[00:17:24]  And this narrative, Megan, that the Duchess was somehow stopped from doing what she wants doesn't add up with everything that I was reporting.
[00:17:34]  The time.
[00:17:35]  So, for example, against the better judgment of many of her staff, Meghan decided to guest edit Vogue magazine.
[00:17:41]  And she poured hours into it.
[00:17:43]  And it actually caused a lot of controversy because it was highly political.
[00:17:47]  And she pushed the narrative of folk like Greta Thunberg, who, of course, are pushing a left wing environmental agenda.
[00:17:54]  And the royal staff members let it happen, Meghan, because they were terrified that this woman, if she didn't get what she wanted, would do exactly what she has now done.
[00:18:07]  What about she saying that you're saying she could have friends come visit her at Frogmore Cottage?
[00:18:11]  And just so the audience knows, just to underscore your point, it's no cottage.
[00:18:14]  It's like five huge houses connected on the grounds of Kensington.
[00:18:18]  This is a mansion.
[00:18:20]  Yeah, this is no cottage as we understand that term.
[00:18:23]  But she's saying that the royals were saying, you may not have lunch with a friend.
[00:18:27]  Just lie low right now.
[00:18:28]  Megan, it's rubbish.
[00:18:29]  It's rubbish.
[00:18:31]  She flew to New York for a baby shower.
[00:18:36]  Organized by Serena Williams, which cost hundreds of thousands of pounds.
[00:18:40]  And she then flew back on George Clooney's private jet, despite the fact that at the time she was telling all of us mere mortals that we should be cutting down our carbon footprint and no longer taking commercial flights.
[00:18:54]  So I'm sorry, this idea that Meghan was imprisoned in Windsor is just a joke.
[00:19:02]  She talks about how it was so hard for her because.
[00:19:07]  She did all the right things when they went on the tours.
[00:19:10]  She smiled damp.
[00:19:11]  We made it look like it was fun.
[00:19:13]  We did what we were expected to do.
[00:19:15]  But I was fried.
[00:19:17]  I was exhausted.
[00:19:19]  It was so hard on me.
[00:19:20]  And, you know, this is one of her complaints about what she was forced to do.
[00:19:24]  It's like, are you kidding me?
[00:19:27]  I mean, you got to be kidding me, right?
[00:19:29]  Because, like, even here in New York City, I go out on the streets in the middle, in the dead of winter when it's zero degrees, and I see guys in ditches with jackhammers working on pipes and exploded.
[00:19:39]  you know things underground and they don't complain these guys get their fingers dirty that they're tough they don't complain they're not because they got a royal tour abroad where people were lauding everything they did where every whim was taken care of i mean there's nothing she can't find herself the victim in i know and the weird thing about that To a discussion,
[00:20:03]  Meghan, to me, is that Prince Harry was suggesting that the royal family became jealous of Meghan.
[00:20:10]  She was too successful.
[00:20:12]  The public liked her too much.
[00:20:14]  And again, that's just a narrative that simply doesn't ring true.
[00:20:18]  Prince Charles, believe it or not, was actually quite relieved that Harry and Meghan were becoming quite big stars because he thought that it would keep Prince William and Kate in line because there are the rivalries between the different households.
[00:20:32]  But here's the reality.
[00:20:34]  Meghan didn't want to do the unglamorous royal work.
[00:20:38]  And a lot of Americans, Meghan, think that you come over and you join the royal family and it is a fairy tale.
[00:20:43]  It is like a little bird.
[00:20:44]  I mean, that's what Meghan said to herself last night.
[00:20:46]  And the reality is, that isn't what life is like.
[00:20:50]  Actually, the reality of life, if you're Princess Anne or Sophie Wessex, you know, who's married to Prince Edward, is you're going to a community center in Nottingham in freezing cold, snowy weather and you're unveiling that clerk.
[00:21:06]  You know, royal work.
[00:21:08]  Isn't particularly glamorous.
[00:21:10]  And what we soon learned is that Megan enjoyed the glamorous side of the job.
[00:21:15]  She didn't want to get her hands dirty, to use your analogy.
[00:21:19]  And on top of all this, she was silenced.
[00:21:24]  She actually compared herself to the Little Mermaid.
[00:21:28]  You can't make this up.
[00:21:29]  She compared herself to the Little Mermaid.
[00:21:31]  That was quite a moment.
[00:21:32]  That was her aha moment where she saw that she married a prince.
[00:21:38]  and lost her voice.
[00:21:40]  Now, may I just say, when Piers Morgan came on the show, I played a clip of my daughter, my then six-year-old daughter, before I went over to cover the royal wedding, right?
[00:21:51]  Saying, this is my six-year-old American daughter who said, why would someone want to marry a prince?
[00:21:58]  The royal family controls everything you do.
[00:22:01]  Like, you have to do what they say.
[00:22:03]  You have to eat with your left hand.
[00:22:04]  You have no choice, right?
[00:22:07]  Are you telling me, Meghan Markle didn't realize that the palace was going to control her access to the media.
[00:22:14]  I mean, let me tell you, just even at Fox News and NBC, I understood they were going to control my access to the media.
[00:22:20]  She didn't get that going over into the royal family?
[00:22:24]  I know.
[00:22:25]  And the idea that her freedom being curtailed amounted to not being able to do a towel interview with Oprah Winfrey, her new friend, who, by the way, she invited to the wedding, having met her once.
[00:22:39]  I mean, That tells you something, doesn't it?
[00:22:41]  But anyway, that's not having your freedom curtailed, is it?
[00:22:45]  Come on.
[00:22:48]  That is just complete delusion.
[00:22:50]  That doesn't equal freedom.
[00:22:52]  Look, the idea is that the royal family like their principles to ideally avoid media interviews.
[00:23:01]  The Queen, Meghan, has never sat down for one.
[00:23:04]  It's the one that we all want, and she's never done it.
[00:23:08]  Prince Charles really regretted sitting down with Jonathan Dimbleby in the 1990s and admitted.
[00:23:12]  Being unfaithful to Diana.
[00:23:14]  We saw the disaster of Prince Andrew sitting down with the BBC show Newsnight.
[00:23:19]  That ruined his legacy and potentially could end him in serious criminal trouble as well.
[00:23:26]  So clearly, there are reasons for communication staff at Buckingham Palace to try and stop royals sitting down with media organizations.
[00:23:36]  But at the end of the day, she was her own woman.
[00:23:38]  If she wanted to do it, she could.
[00:23:39]  And that is why she guest edited Vogue magazine.
[00:23:42]  For example, right, and and that, and by the way, you know, to your point about Oprah being at the wedding, which was obviously a joke, and Gail King, and you know, here, uh, organizing her wedding shower I mean, her baby shower here in New York, who she didn't know either, right?
[00:23:57]  It's like, and now she wants to be like, oh no, I'm not into celebrity, and then she says, I'm not into the grandeur, the grandeur of these things means nothing to me.
[00:24:05]  It's like, well, then why was George Clooney at your wedding when you didn't even know him?
[00:24:08]  Why was Oprah there?
[00:24:09]  You didn't know her.
[00:24:10]  Why did you cover yourself in blood diamonds given to you a few weeks earlier by the Saudi prince who had just had Jamal Khashoggi killed here, an American journalist, a Washington Post journalist, which you were told and you wanted the diamonds on you.
[00:24:22]  So you wore them in like, why did you throw a fit about the tiara as you first reported, right?
[00:24:27]  Because you wanted the one with the emeralds and you couldn't have it because its provenance was unclear.
[00:24:31]  Can you like, you know what I wanted to hear?
[00:24:33]  You know what would be so refreshing is if she got out there and she's like, you know what?
[00:24:38]  I freaking love the glamour and the grandeur.
[00:24:40]  It's awesome.
[00:24:41]  And you know what?
[00:24:42]  Titles are important to me.
[00:24:43]  That's why I'm so pissed off.
[00:24:44]  There's no fucking prince title in front of my kid's name.
[00:24:48]  I wanted him to be a prince.
[00:24:49]  I married a prince and I thought I'd make a prince.
[00:24:52]  It would be great if she would just own it.
[00:24:55]  But there was just constant internal conflict, wasn't there, Megan?
[00:24:59]  Because there's this idea that they want to be free.
[00:25:02]  And then, as you point out, they're so desperate not to have to pay for anything.
[00:25:06]  And they're so desperate.
[00:25:08]  To retain the title.
[00:25:10]  And if they have such a problem with the institution and the firm that they keep talking about, I find it astonishing that they want to remain known as the Duke and Duchess of Sussex.
[00:25:19]  Wouldn't the most powerful thing for them to say, actually, we're breaking the shackles now, they're off, we're Meghan and Harry, and we're going to make money in our own right?
[00:25:28]  And I think I would respect that.
[00:25:29]  But we know, Meghan, the reason they've got these multi million pound deals, the likes of Spotify and Netflix, is because they're a Duke and Duchess.
[00:25:37]  It's not because she was a sort of C list actor on Suits, which Let's be honest, it was not a massive show.
[00:25:44]  I mean, I'd never heard of her before she was dating Prince Harry.
[00:25:48]  And I think pointing to the wedding guest list is particularly interesting because I don't know about you, Megan, but the most important people in my life are the people who I went to school with, the other people who know me from before I did this crazy job and got into this industry.
[00:26:07]  And Megan had none of those old mates at the wedding.
[00:26:11]  And she had one family member, her mum.
[00:26:14]  Everyone else was from the world of chopas.
[00:26:18]  And look, as an American, you might say that's very Los Angeles, that's very Hollywood.
[00:26:23]  For me, I view that as a character deficiency.
[00:26:27]  No, it reminds me of a line in Mad Men, you know, the series Mad Men.
[00:26:30]  And Don Draper was visiting his wife's family, and his father in law looked at his daughter and said, He has no people.
[00:26:40]  You can't trust a man like that.
[00:26:42]  Like, where are people?
[00:26:43]  Yes, she's got the dad.
[00:26:44]  We understand what happened there.
[00:26:45]  I don't know what the truth is of that relationship, but where are her people?
[00:26:49]  Where are all of her best friends from childhood and so on?
[00:26:52]  Why am I looking at Oprah sitting in that pew steps from the Royals when she didn't even know her?
[00:26:58]  It's like Meghan Markle wanted that interview just as badly as Oprah did.
[00:27:03]  All right, now hold on.
[00:27:04]  In one second, we're going to get to, I mean, she definitely played the race card and how and also the mental health card.
[00:27:10]  And I want to get your reaction to that, but let's get a quick add in.
[00:27:14]  More with Dan coming up next.
[00:27:20]  Let's talk about the race thing.
[00:27:22]  She made a stunning allegation about there being a raging racist inside the royal family.
[00:27:30]  Here's what she said.
[00:27:31]  So we have in tandem the conversation of he won't be given security, he's not going to be given a title, and also concerns and conversations about how dark his skin might be when he's born.
[00:27:49]  What?
[00:27:51]  And.
[00:27:53]  Who is having that conversation with you?
[00:28:02]  What?
[00:28:04]  So.
[00:28:08]  There is a conversation.
[00:28:10]  Hold up.
[00:28:10]  Hold up.
[00:28:11]  There are several parents.
[00:28:12]  There are several conversations.
[00:28:13]  There's a conversation with you?
[00:28:16]  With Harry.
[00:28:18]  About how dark your baby is going to be?
[00:28:22]  Potentially, and what that would mean or look like.
[00:28:29]  And you're not going to tell me who had the conversation?
[00:28:33]  I think that would be very damaging to them.
[00:28:35]  Okay.
[00:28:37]  So how does one have that meeting?
[00:28:41]  That was relayed to me from Harry.
[00:28:43]  Those were conversations that family had with him.
[00:28:46]  Now, that's a big one.
[00:28:48]  And I will say this.
[00:28:50]  I actually believed her because he came on, Harry came on and backed it up.
[00:28:55]  Harry's the one who told her this happened.
[00:28:57]  Harry came on next and said it happened, but he didn't want to name the family member.
[00:29:03]  And I believe that.
[00:29:06]  But I think it's scurrilous to throw it out there without a name because now you've smeared the entire royal family.
[00:29:14]  Well, indeed.
[00:29:15]  And I've spoken to top lawyers here today, Meghan, who say that certain members of the royal family, for example, Prince Charles and Prince William, could even have a case potentially against Meghan and Harry for making this allegation, given how small the family is.
[00:29:29]  And it was very telling that Oprah, after the interview, went public and said, Harry made clear to me that I don't want anyone to think that it was the Queen or Prince Philip.
[00:29:42]  So, my translation from that is that he's happy for the public to believe that it could have been Prince Charles, his father, or Prince William, his brother, who said this.
[00:29:53]  And that's quite disturbing.
[00:29:55]  There were a couple of issues with the story as well, Meghan.
[00:29:57]  You heard Meghan say there to Oprah that there were several conversations about this.
[00:30:04]  Prince Harry made it clear to Oprah that there was only one.

=== Implying the Future King is Racist (07:07) ===

[00:30:08]  And of course, we don't know the context either.
[00:30:11]  We don't know how this was being discussed.
[00:30:13]  I mean, clearly it was a very stupid thing to say.
[00:30:16]  You could argue that it was racist, but you could also argue that it was ignorant.
[00:30:23]  How, how, I don't see any way of that one not being racist.
[00:30:26]  Like, I'm concerned about how dark the kid's going to be.
[00:30:29]  That's pretty racist.
[00:30:30]  Well, if that's what was said, if that is what was said, but there are a lot of vagaries around this story.
[00:30:39]  But look, clearly, this was the grenade that the couple intended to let off.
[00:30:45]  And in some ways, I'm quite glad that they did use a specific allegation, but I think we were lacking the detail.
[00:30:56]  And as I say, you're going to now throw every single member of the royal family under the bus for a comment that may have been made by a distant relative.
[00:31:06]  We just don't know, do we?
[00:31:07]  And obviously, if it was made by Prince Charles or Prince William, what you're now doing is asking the entire British media to start this guessing game, which I think is actually quite grotesque.
[00:31:20]  Right.
[00:31:21]  So basically, I mean, it's obvious that they're implying it was either Charles or William.
[00:31:26]  So what they're essentially saying is the future king of England is a racist.
[00:31:31]  And we don't even know which one, but one of the next two kings is a racist.
[00:31:36]  And they haven't, quote, done the work, as Harry said about himself, that he tried to educate them, but they just wouldn't do the work as Harry has.
[00:31:47]  So I don't know what we're supposed to take away from that.
[00:31:51]  But my thing was I'm sure that was a disturbing thing to hear.
[00:31:56]  I'm sure it was for both of them.
[00:31:58]  Yeah.
[00:31:59]  But I don't get why I can't talk to the media.
[00:32:04]  And I don't really like taking these tours.
[00:32:07]  And someone once said something racist inside the royal family makes them into these martyred victims who should garner international sympathy.
[00:32:20]  When we have reports of them bullying, them feeling entitled, them not wanting to do, quote, the work that's required to be a royal, as you point out, sitting at the civic center, whatever.
[00:32:31]  You know, why?
[00:32:32]  There's no acknowledgement that they had any hand in the deterioration of the relationship.
[00:32:38]  At all.
[00:32:39]  No, and they want to push a narrative that the entire institution and that the entire British establishment, including the media, is racist.
[00:32:50]  And for example, they use this idea that their young son, Archie, wasn't going to become a prince as an example of that.
[00:32:59]  But in fact, Megan, that's actually just how it works.
[00:33:03]  Archie will become a prince when Prince Charles becomes king.
[00:33:08]  That's protocol.
[00:33:09]  It's nothing to do with race.
[00:33:12]  And when it comes to security, the reason that was removed is because Harry and Meg had made it clear that they no longer wanted to be working senior members of the royal family.
[00:33:21]  So, why should British taxpayers at that point pay for their security?
[00:33:26]  The whole reason they're getting paid tens of millions of dollars is to get that security.
[00:33:31]  So, first of all, so just so I understand, because I did read that, that it was like, because that was a big point she was making throughout that she was so mad that little Archie wasn't going to be a prince.
[00:33:40]  And she really felt it was a personal affront to him because of his.
[00:33:43]  The fact that he's mixed race, he's one quarter black.
[00:33:49]  And he's 100%.
[00:33:51]  Right.
[00:33:51]  So, what I read was that I guess the way it works is if you're the first, like Prince William's children.
[00:33:59]  Exactly.
[00:34:01]  Exactly.
[00:34:01]  Because he is a direct heir to the throne.
[00:34:04]  But as soon as Prince Charles takes the throne, Harry and Meghan have that option of making their children princesses and princesses if they choose that.
[00:34:16]  But we do have lots of examples, Megan, of more minor royals in the UK.
[00:34:20]  So, for example, Princess Anne and her children, like Zara, who have gone on to carve out a role for themselves where they are royals, but they make their own money, who choose not to take the royal title.
[00:34:33]  But the idea that this was in any way because of the fact that Archie is mixed race is just delusional.
[00:34:42]  I mean, why would the royal family do that to themselves?
[00:34:45]  So, just to back up, so Prince Charles, who is the The son of the throne.
[00:34:49]  He's the heir to the throne.
[00:34:51]  Yeah.
[00:34:51]  So his two boys, William and Harry, they were princes.
[00:34:55]  But Prince Charles has three siblings, right?
[00:34:57]  He's got two brothers and a sister.
[00:34:59]  And so were their children princes and princesses?
[00:35:04]  Well, they were because remember at that point the queen was already on the throne, but Prince Charles isn't on the throne yet, Harry's father.
[00:35:13]  And also remember there's a modernization process going on.
[00:35:16]  So it is absolutely fair to say that the royals do want a slim line.
[00:35:24]  Top list of the monarchy, right?
[00:35:26]  So they actually do want less princes and princesses.
[00:35:31]  And this is something that Prince Andrew has been battling for a long time.
[00:35:35]  And I know there's a whole other story with Prince Andrew, but for a long time, he has argued that his daughters, Princess Beatrice and Eugenie, should be official royals and should get security paid for by the British taxpayer.
[00:35:47]  And Prince Charles has refused that request because there is a demand by the British public.
[00:35:52]  For some of these hanger on royals to sort of live a normal life, to make their own money.
[00:35:58]  And you've got Harry and Meghan saying, we want to make our own money.
[00:36:02]  We don't even want to live in a Commonwealth country, we're going to be in Hollywood.
[00:36:07]  So you can understand why the royal family say that's fine, but you don't get the perks that come with being a royal in that case.
[00:36:14]  But she was saying that they were threatening Archie wouldn't have security when she was pregnant with him before they were making the determination to step away.
[00:36:23]  Yeah, and that was very strange because at that point they did have full security.
[00:36:27]  The security discussion only happened when they moved to Canada and then started talking about moving to Los Angeles because.
[00:36:35]  Remember, Canada didn't want to pay for their security, and that is the protocol.
[00:36:40]  So, if Prince Charles, for example, goes on holiday to New Zealand or South Africa, because they're Commonwealth countries, the South African taxpayers or the New Zealand taxpayers pay for their security.
[00:36:52]  And again, there was a diplomatic row, and you can understand that Canada said, well, we can't pay for Harry and Meghan's security.
[00:37:00]  But as I say, this is all very bureaucratic and technical, but it's certainly nothing to do with race.
[00:37:09]  What does the royal family do in response to that in particular, right?
[00:37:13]  This allegation of racism?

=== Security Protocol Failures (15:37) ===

[00:37:15]  Yeah, well, it's crushing.
[00:37:16]  It's crushing.
[00:37:18]  It's devastating.
[00:37:20]  Absolutely, what they wanted to do, Meghan, is not respond to this interview whatsoever.
[00:37:26]  They hoped that they would be able to go on with this never complain, never explain approach.
[00:37:32]  But very much said the Queen is focusing on the health of her husband, Prince Philip, who at 99 years old remains in hospital, having had a heart operation.
[00:37:41]  That's an incredibly serious, difficult position that the Queen is currently in.
[00:37:45]  And also, of course, the fact that this country, the UK, remains in lockdown, gripped by a pandemic which has absolutely torn up society.
[00:37:54]  I mean, today in the UK is the first day that schools go back, for example, in months and months and months.
[00:37:59]  So the royal family want to focus on that.
[00:38:02]  I think the interview is so dynamite and there are so many bombshells.
[00:38:07]  There will have to be a response.
[00:38:09]  How it's done and whether it's on the record or whether it involves more off the record.
[00:38:13]  briefings, which obviously would be difficult given that's what Harry and Meghan are moaning about at this point.
[00:38:19]  We don't know.
[00:38:22]  And so now let's get to the mental health issue because the woman who says she didn't plan on saying anything shocking, she didn't plan on saying anything shocking reveals that she wanted to kill herself.
[00:38:35]  She wanted to commit suicide while she was pregnant with Archie.
[00:38:40]  I mean, I'm sorry, but it's not adding up.
[00:38:44]  Of course she knew that was going to be shocking.
[00:38:46]  Who, like, come on.
[00:38:48]  And I, that's another thing.
[00:38:50]  I didn't doubt her that she expressed at the time to Harry that she was feeling those thoughts.
[00:38:56]  I didn't because he backed them up.
[00:38:58]  But one has to wonder how she got to that point based on the evidence she offered.
[00:39:04]  I realize it's awful to be the scourge of the press.
[00:39:07]  Been there.
[00:39:08]  Not on her level.
[00:39:09]  I get it.
[00:39:10]  But it's awful.
[00:39:11]  But for her to be suicidal over that, over the, like, To me, it just wasn't adding up.
[00:39:20]  I was like, there's something missing.
[00:39:22]  What am I missing?
[00:39:23]  And just to get the audience up to speed, let's play the soundbite of her talking about this issue.
[00:39:28]  Look, I was really ashamed to say it at the time and ashamed to have to admit it to Harry, especially because I know how much loss he suffered.
[00:39:42]  But I knew that if I didn't say it, that I would do it.
[00:39:47]  And I just didn't want to be alive anymore.
[00:39:52]  And that was a very clear and real and frightening constant thought.
[00:40:04]  I went to the institution and I said that I needed to go somewhere to get help.
[00:40:09]  I said that I've never felt this way before and I need to go somewhere.
[00:40:13]  And I was told that I couldn't, that it wouldn't be good for the institution.
[00:40:17]  And I called.
[00:40:18]  So the institution is never a person or is it a series of people?
[00:40:22]  No, it's a person.
[00:40:22]  It's a person.
[00:40:23]  It's several people, but I went to one of the most senior people to get help.
[00:40:30]  And I said, I just really need help because in my old job, there was a union.
[00:40:35]  And they would protect me.
[00:40:36]  And I remember this conversation like it was yesterday because they said, My heart goes out to you because I see how bad it is, but there's nothing we can do to protect you because you're not a paid employee of the institution.
[00:40:51]  Who could she be talking about there?
[00:40:53]  Well, it would be very likely that she's talking about one of the private secretaries, which in her words is like the chief executive.
[00:41:00]  So the Queen has one, Prince Charles has one, William has one, and Harry and Kate had one too.
[00:41:08]  But again, there's a couple of issues being conflated here.
[00:41:10]  The first thing I would say is that mental health is incredibly important, and my heart goes out to Meghan that she was feeling that way.
[00:41:18]  I'm incredibly surprised that Prince Harry said he felt shame in seeking her help at that time.
[00:41:27]  Because what you've got to remember is that Harry's main charitable cause in the UK, Meghan, has been mental health, and him and Prince William ran a charity called Heads Together.
[00:41:38]  Which was all about people seeking help for mental health problems and taking the stigma away from seeking help for those problems.
[00:41:44]  And remember, Harry himself has openly spoken about the fact that he's been in therapy to deal with his mental health issues.
[00:41:52]  Prince Charles has had therapy, he's admitted that.
[00:41:56]  And even in the 80s, after that really horrific suicide attempt by Harry's mum, Princess Diana, when she threw herself down the stairs at Balmoral while she was pregnant, even then, In the 80s, the royal family acknowledged that there was enough of a mental health issue with Diana to seek medical help for her.
[00:42:17]  So it's very, very shocking to me that we can be in 2018, 2019, and Meghan is unable to seek that help.
[00:42:26]  And I find that really sad, really shocking, quite disturbing.
[00:42:30]  I mean, she seems to be suggesting, doesn't she, that maybe she wanted to go into some form of rehab facility, perhaps, and maybe the royal family had an issue with that.
[00:42:41]  But I think where the issue is being conflated is that there are two different conversations Megan's talking about.
[00:42:46]  One with a private secretary who says, no, you can't seek help because that would be bad for the institution.
[00:42:52]  The other with the head of HR for the royal family who says, I can't assist you because you're not a staff member.
[00:43:00]  Now, clearly, I would say both of those responses are highly unsatisfactory.
[00:43:05]  And there are real questions for the royal family here.
[00:43:09]  You know, right.
[00:43:10]  There has to be some sort of a response on that because you can't have a woman.
[00:43:15]  However, she got to that point, suicidal inside the palace, and you just shrugging your shoulders saying, you know, I'd love to help you out, but I got nothing for you.
[00:43:26]  That was stunning.
[00:43:27]  But I still feel like there has to be more to the story because how I think so.
[00:43:32]  She's not like they were sort of trying to draw these parallels to Diana.
[00:43:36]  She's not like Diana.
[00:43:38]  Diana did have to go through it alone, as Harry pointed out.
[00:43:41]  She's there with this loving partner.
[00:43:43]  She's madly in love with her prince.
[00:43:46]  She's pregnant.
[00:43:47]  They have this baby who they adore.
[00:43:49]  A couple of months later, her every need is taken care of.
[00:43:53]  She does not have the freedom she wants, which was predictable.
[00:43:55]  That must have been frustrating.
[00:43:57]  And certain very negative things were being said about her in the press.
[00:44:01]  How does the princess smiling in the white gown we saw?
[00:44:05]  A year earlier, get to the point of that level of despair over those facts.
[00:44:11]  I just feel like something's missing.
[00:44:14]  I completely agree.
[00:44:15]  Remember, she's an adult.
[00:44:16]  She's got her own support network.
[00:44:19]  She still had all of her crew in Hollywood a business manager, lawyers, PR people, lots of new friends in the UK.
[00:44:27]  She also has her own fortune, Megan.
[00:44:29]  So there was nothing financially stopping her saying, you know what, enough is enough.
[00:44:34]  I'm buying myself a first class ticket tonight.
[00:44:36]  I'm going to Hollywood to see my mum.
[00:44:38]  She could have done that.
[00:44:39]  I know she said she was stopped from doing that, but she's not imprisoned.
[00:44:44]  And I think the situation with Diana is completely different because Diana, remember, was an 18 year old virgin when she married into the royal family.
[00:44:54]  And she had mental health issues from the start.
[00:44:57]  She had bulimia.
[00:44:59]  And also, it was an unenlightened time.
[00:45:02]  So you've got your own husband, a mental health campaigner, telling the British public, you've got to seek help, you've got to talk to people.
[00:45:11]  If you have mental health issues, I find it very sad and very shocking that he still felt shame in talking to his own family about the mental health problems that his wife was going through.
[00:45:22]  So I agree, there are lots of unanswered questions.
[00:45:25]  But, you know, they look, people are adults.
[00:45:30]  You've got to make your own decisions as to what's best for you.
[00:45:34]  And I would say the best thing that Prince Harry could have done at that point is said, Who gives a damn?
[00:45:41]  What these courtiers are saying to us.
[00:45:43]  I'll drive you myself to the priory and check you in there if I have to, because your mental health is more important than these men in grey suits, as they call them.
[00:45:54]  So, Megan, I think there's more to the story personally.
[00:45:58]  And in terms of my own reportage, I want to hear from these staff members at Buckingham Palace, the courtiers, the head of HR.
[00:46:06]  Let's get a proper investigation going into this.
[00:46:08]  If they're investigating Megan bullying staff, I absolutely agree with the fans of Megan who say they should also investigate the HR processes around why Megan was apparently refused help for her mental health condition.
[00:46:23]  Well, I mean, that's another, like, one of my frustrations with Oprah was I wanted more specifics.
[00:46:28]  And it was a very nice interview.
[00:46:30]  Overall, I thought she did a great job.
[00:46:32]  But as a lawyer, I just wanted more specifics.
[00:46:35]  Who said that to you?
[00:46:36]  Who said they couldn't help you?
[00:46:38]  Who else did you go to?
[00:46:39]  Name names.
[00:46:40]  Who was it that was jealous of you after Australia?
[00:46:42]  Who?
[00:46:42]  Was it Kate?
[00:46:44]  Is that what you're suggesting?
[00:46:45]  Tell me.
[00:46:45]  Like, Just some more pressing on specifics would have made her story seem more credible, frankly.
[00:46:52]  I mean, that's really why you push for specifics.
[00:46:55]  But that wasn't there.
[00:46:57]  Now, so she launches sort of the mental health bomb.
[00:47:03]  And then today, there was an additional soundbite released on CBS this morning about whether Harry's ever received an apology from his family for not defending them.
[00:47:16]  Here's what happened.
[00:47:17]  Kate was called Waity Katie, waiting to marry William.
[00:47:22]  While I imagine that was really hard, and I do, I can't picture what that felt like, this is not the same.
[00:47:29]  And if a member of his family will comfortably say, we've all had to deal with things that are rude, rude and racist are not the same.
[00:47:36]  You mentioned earlier, Harry, that you were hurt by the fact that there's been no acknowledgement on the part of your family that this was different because of Race.
[00:47:49]  Do you think there ever will be?
[00:47:51]  And would that make a difference to you?
[00:47:53]  Yeah, it would make a huge difference.
[00:47:56]  The thing is, to me, that's belittling what Kate may have gone through.
[00:48:00]  And I think this was meant to be Megan's truth and her story.
[00:48:04]  But I think to Melissa, what other members of the royal family may have gone through is unfair.
[00:48:09]  I come back again to this claim, this outrageous claim that any of this was racist, Megan.
[00:48:16]  And all I would say is go back to the 80s and the early 90s and look at the treatment that Fergie, Prince Andrew's wife, went through, the Duchess of Pork, and lots of horrible comments about her weight, Princess Diana, who got her own rough ride.
[00:48:34]  Look, there is clearly an issue with outsiders.
[00:48:38]  Female outsiders who enter the royal family.
[00:48:40]  There is an issue there.
[00:48:42]  I'm sorry, I do not sign up to this suggestion that it has anything to do with the fact that Meghan is mixed race.
[00:48:50]  Because if it did, why would the entire country have stopped and celebrated her wedding?
[00:48:57]  I mean, I wrote about it at the time, Meghan, and I said, actually, in all of the time I've been in the UK, you know, I moved here from New Zealand 15 years ago, there's only a handful of days where I've ever felt that joy, that spirit.
[00:49:11]  The whole idea that the country was coming together, all of the newspaper editorials said, This is a dawn of a new age for the royal family.
[00:49:20]  We were collectively, as a nation, as a commonwealth, excited about Meghan entering the royal family.
[00:49:27]  So, where was this racism?
[00:49:29]  Where was it?
[00:49:31]  You know, people.
[00:49:33]  You can't have it both ways.
[00:49:35]  You can't have it both ways.
[00:49:36]  The newspaper headlines, I was there, I covered the royal wedding.
[00:49:39]  I interviewed the people on the streets.
[00:49:41]  They were in love with her, white, black, otherwise.
[00:49:44]  They were all.
[00:49:45]  In love with her, and they loved this modernization of the British monarchy and were rooting for them.
[00:49:51]  They were swooning over their love affair.
[00:49:54]  If they were racist against her, they wouldn't have felt that way about her or them.
[00:49:59]  Things changed because of reports of her behavior, true or not, in the media.
[00:50:04]  That's what started to turn it.
[00:50:06]  Well, and Megan, that's where I can tell you that the reports, they are true.
[00:50:11]  Of course, they're true.
[00:50:12]  And this is something that I get in a lot of trouble for.
[00:50:14]  I've said it before, but I'll say it again.
[00:50:16]  These were not reports being created by the British press.
[00:50:20]  These were reports coming directly from within the royal family.
[00:50:24]  And that's our job.
[00:50:26]  You know, if you are a royal correspondent in the UK, and I was never a royal correspondent at the time when I was breaking these stories, I was the executive editor of the Sun newspaper, which is the biggest selling paper or was at the time the biggest selling newspaper in the country.
[00:50:38]  It's now the Daily Mail, where I'm going to next.
[00:50:41]  I should say that.
[00:50:42]  But these stories were true and these stories were coming.
[00:50:47]  From within the royal family.
[00:50:48]  Now, maybe that's the issue that Meghan and Harry have, but there was a fallout with Kate.
[00:50:54]  She's now admitted that.
[00:50:56]  There was a fallout over the tiara.
[00:50:59]  That's now being confirmed in the hagiography that was released about Meghan and Harry finding freedom.
[00:51:04]  So these reports were not made up, Meghan.
[00:51:06]  And what's the British press meant to do?
[00:51:09]  Just ignore them because Meghan is mixed race?
[00:51:12]  I mean, that's a type of warped reverse racism.
[00:51:16]  She wanted to be.
[00:51:19]  A star.
[00:51:20]  There's a reason Prince Harry's prior two girlfriends chose not to see it through with him.
[00:51:24]  That he was totally in love with those two women.
[00:51:27]  What is it?
[00:51:28]  Cressida and the other one?
[00:51:29]  Cressida Bonass and Chelsea Davey.
[00:51:31]  Indeed, they made the decision making.
[00:51:33]  They decided this is going to be too tough for us and they broke Harry's heart.
[00:51:38]  Which we could all see.
[00:51:39]  We could see it from over here how tough it would be.
[00:51:42]  She went in wide eyed, please.
[00:51:44]  She knew exactly what she was getting herself into.
[00:51:46]  And instead of, and she was lamenting how she gave up, I gave up my whole life.
[00:51:50]  No one made you do that.
[00:51:51]  No one, no one made you do that.
[00:51:52]  And by the way, Now, Harry's given up his entire life.
[00:51:56]  Yeah, and Prince Harry actually pointed out that there were members of the royal family encouraging Meghan to keep acting because.
[00:52:04]  They didn't want her to give up her life.
[00:52:06]  They didn't want her to feel as if she had to give everything up for Harry because they understood that that might result in bitterness.
[00:52:13]  And look at where we are.
[00:52:14]  And it's also that was also played as an attack.
[00:52:16]  That was also played as, you know, they were basically telling me I should keep, like, to keep supporting herself, like, keep getting the paycheck.
[00:52:23]  Everything was spun in a way where they had been unfairly targeted.
[00:52:28]  But Prince Charles paid for everything, Meghan, and he would have kept on doing that.
[00:52:34]  But when you look at it, I just think it's very tragic the parallels when you think Meghan enters the royal family without any of her old mates, with only one family member who she's talking to.
[00:52:45]  She's fallen out with her half sister, Samantha.
[00:52:48]  She's fallen out with their dad.
[00:52:49]  Now you've got Prince Harry, a couple of years later.

=== Living Authentically vs Victimhood (11:15) ===

[00:52:52]  He's fallen out with all of his old mates, all of the people who he was in the army with, who he used to go out to nightclubs with, falling out with all of them, cut contact when he started to date Meghan.
[00:53:02]  And now he's fallen out with his dad and his brother.
[00:53:06]  You know, lots and lots of alarm bells there because William and Harry were close.
[00:53:12]  And if you speak to people close to Meghan, sorry, if you speak to people close to William Meghan, like I have done many, many times over the years, he's devastated about this.
[00:53:22]  You know, he feels like he did everything he could over years and years and years to look after his brother.
[00:53:29]  And this is how he's being treated.
[00:53:31]  And we should have.
[00:53:32]  Well, that's the thing.
[00:53:33]  So, can I tell you, I don't, we've been harsh on her in this, but I give him no pass either.
[00:53:39]  I don't see her as some master manipulator who rested him away from his family.
[00:53:42]  He rested himself.
[00:53:44]  He was restable.
[00:53:45]  He wasn't loyal to his family.
[00:53:47]  He didn't defend his family.
[00:53:48]  He didn't defend the British people and the way of life over there that had been so good to him.
[00:53:52]  He only saw himself as troubled and victimized too.
[00:53:55]  Right up to the point of him talking about when the royal family took away security.
[00:53:59]  He didn't want to do the job anymore of being a royal.
[00:54:02]  And they said, okay, that means you're going to lose certain things, including your security.
[00:54:06]  And that's just the way it goes.
[00:54:07]  We can't ask the British taxpayers to pay for your security over there in California or in Canada.
[00:54:12]  That's not fair.
[00:54:14]  He was talking about himself like he was a pauper on the street, Dan.
[00:54:18]  It was like, all I had was my mother's inheritance, which I looked up.
[00:54:23]  It's about $16 million.
[00:54:25]  You know what?
[00:54:26]  Anybody over here could make a security team happen with $16 million, especially when he's had his every expense from zero to age 36 paid for by the British taxpayer.
[00:54:38]  He hasn't had to pay $1 for anything.
[00:54:41]  It was his disconnect from how real people live and are was stunning.
[00:54:46]  Yeah.
[00:54:47]  And you know what I wish I'd heard from Prince Harry, especially given all of this talk of racism?
[00:54:53]  What about his own experiences with racism and how he learned from that?
[00:54:58]  Because remember, Prince Harry went to a fancy dress party in a Nazi uniform, which he was severely criticized for at the time.
[00:55:08]  He was then caught on video referring to a fellow soldier of his, you know, when he was on duty as the P word, a word that I won't say, but it's a It's a highly controversial racial term used in the UK for folk of Asian descent.
[00:55:27]  And we never hear about that.
[00:55:29]  We never hear about his own experience with racism and how he got over it.
[00:55:34]  And for me, actually, that would have been more enlightening than just slagging off the British press for being racist, slagging off his family members for being racist.
[00:55:44]  You know, he's had his own experiences with racism.
[00:55:47]  How did he get over it?
[00:55:48]  I would have liked to have heard more from him on that.
[00:55:51]  Well, to me, it was like they both clearly had some media coaching prior to this interview, but they needed more.
[00:55:58]  I mean, I didn't think he was delivering the right message.
[00:56:02]  It should have been.
[00:56:03]  Complete acknowledgement of the privilege that he has, thanks to the British people, and how this has been a painful event, but they're good.
[00:56:10]  They've got this.
[00:56:12]  They're living their private life now.
[00:56:14]  And it's a little hard to sort of fall on the privacy thing when you're talking to Oprah in front of tens or hundreds of millions of people.
[00:56:23]  But okay, fine, we'll accept this is going to be the only one.
[00:56:25]  And you want your privacy, even though now we're going to see you on Netflix and on Spotify.
[00:56:29]  Okay, we're going to try to buy it.
[00:56:30]  But you look over at her message, it was all over the board.
[00:56:33]  She starts with, You know, the nonsense about how she never ever Googled Harry and she had no idea the queen was not like a Hollywood celebrity.
[00:56:41]  Oh, and I'm not into grandeur again, I've dismantled that.
[00:56:44]  And I don't like titles, I don't care about the title, but why the hell isn't my son a prince?
[00:56:49]  And then she, it's the whole interview is peppered with I am an advocate for women for so long to use their voice.
[00:56:57]  My most important title is mom.
[00:57:01]  I was so courageous to come forward about my mental health issues, and then here was the capper.
[00:57:07]  Here was the capper when she was touring.
[00:57:09]  The chickens she was taking care of.
[00:57:11]  Let's listen.
[00:57:12]  She's always one of the chickens.
[00:57:14]  But you know, I just love rescuing.
[00:57:16]  So, this is a part of your new life.
[00:57:18]  What are you most excited about?
[00:57:19]  What are you most excited about in the new life?
[00:57:21]  What are you most excited about?
[00:57:24]  I think just being able to live authentically, right?
[00:57:27]  Like this kind of stuff that's so basic, but it is really fulfilling.
[00:57:35]  I mean, Megan, it is not rescuing.
[00:57:37]  It is not living authentically, revealing.
[00:57:41]  Do it hosting a gender reveal party for your baby, a future princess potentially of the UK on Oprah Winfrey when you're claiming that you want privacy.
[00:57:54]  The two things do not add up.
[00:57:56]  Oh, it's exhausting.
[00:57:58]  I really want these two to just be quiet.
[00:58:00]  If they want a private life in the United States, great, go for it.
[00:58:04]  Enjoy your $150 million you got from Netflix and Spotify reportedly.
[00:58:08]  But by the way, for doing nothing, according to my team, the podcast that was on Spotify was basically them saying, Something like, and now Elton John.
[00:58:16]  And then somebody else comes on and does all the work, and it's like, okay, bye.
[00:58:19]  Like they're not really doing anything, but enjoy that.
[00:58:22]  Okay, fine.
[00:58:23]  But just stop laying the victim.
[00:58:27]  I'll give you the last word, Dan.
[00:58:29]  I completely agree.
[00:58:31]  And I really hope that Harry thinks about the importance of the monarchy, the importance of his grandmother's position, not just to the UK, but to the Commonwealth and the wider world.
[00:58:44]  And just think about Does his family really deserve this at this time?
[00:58:50]  You know, this is going to be a really difficult, a rocky couple of years for the royal family, Meghan.
[00:58:55]  You know, the Queen, she's aging.
[00:58:59]  We want her to hang around forever, but that's not going to happen realistically.
[00:59:04]  Her husband, will he get to 100?
[00:59:06]  My goodness, we pray, we hope so.
[00:59:08]  But it's going to be really dark days for Great Britain when the Queen and Prince Philip eventually do pass.
[00:59:18]  I think we need a strong royal family.
[00:59:19]  I think it's an important thing for Great Britain.
[00:59:23]  And Harry has to realize that playing the victim and throwing these allegations around is going to damage the monarchy potentially to the extent that it makes it much harder when his father, Prince Charles, eventually takes the throne.
[00:59:35]  So clearly, there's lots of personal issues here, but I just hope that he takes a step back and just think this isn't all about us.
[00:59:42]  Do you know what I mean?
[00:59:43]  There's something much bigger and much deeper at play here.
[00:59:47]  Don't hold your breath.
[00:59:48]  Dan Wooten, it's a pleasure.
[00:59:51]  Thank you for being here.
[00:59:52]  Thank you so much, Megan.
[00:59:54]  And don't go away because coming up, we're going to have Barry Weiss with the latest on the fight against these wokesters.
[01:00:02]  Who are completely eroding one's civil liberties.
[01:00:12]  Joining me now, Barry Weiss.
[01:00:13]  All right, we got to start with the royals because I just, I know a lot of people don't care.
[01:00:17]  I don't know why I care, but I'm very interested.
[01:00:19]  I can't believe that this victimization thing goes all the way up to the royal family.
[01:00:24]  You can become a princess and live in a castle and still see yourself as a victim, Barry.
[01:00:29]  First of all, it's 7 a.m. here in LA.
[01:00:31]  I'm up only because of you, and I am definitely hungover from.
[01:00:35]  Last night.
[01:00:36]  That was the best television I have seen in years.
[01:00:39]  Would you?
[01:00:40]  I hope you would agree with that at least.
[01:00:41]  Yeah, it was awesome.
[01:00:42]  Oprah is a master.
[01:00:44]  I know I saw on your Twitter that you wished that she went further, but the fact that she said, I mean, I couldn't believe what they were revealing.
[01:00:54]  Now, I'm sure they're best friends in Montecito and they planned the conversation long in advance.
[01:00:57]  But anyway, I was impressed.
[01:00:59]  I kind of just, what was brilliant about it is the combination, which we have seen many times before, but never at quite this.
[01:01:08]  Olympian level of claiming victimization and grabbing an unbelievable amount of power at the same moment.
[01:01:17]  Like that was the most brilliant power grab I have ever seen.
[01:01:21]  I saw that someone called it the Second Declaration of Independence.
[01:01:25]  That's incredible to me.
[01:01:26]  Maybe you disagree.
[01:01:28]  I don't know.
[01:01:28]  I don't see it that way.
[01:01:29]  And I actually think that like Twitter was so divided last night, I think people fell along their party lines, right?
[01:01:34]  Like liberal Twitter was totally in their camp and conservative Twitter was totally against them.
[01:01:38]  And I was against them.
[01:01:40]  I just, I wasn't feeling, I was open minded.
[01:01:43]  I did believe a lot of what she said and I did not believe a lot of what she said.
[01:01:47]  But overall, I was, I just, I didn't get how somebody said something racist about their kid, which I believed.
[01:01:56]  They weren't being protected in the press, which is unpleasant, drove her to suicidal thoughts.
[01:02:02]  I think there's something more going on here.
[01:02:05]  And I don't know if it's a pre-existing thing with her or if not all the story's been told, but to me, it doesn't make sense.
[01:02:11]  It doesn't make sense.
[01:02:13]  Yeah, to me, I listen.
[01:02:15]  I can't imagine joining the royal family and the kind of restrictions that that comes with.
[01:02:20]  But the notion that someone wouldn't have any understanding that, yeah, you give up your driver's license because you have a fleet of cars to drive you everywhere or a horse or carriage or whatever.
[01:02:32]  The idea that a Hollywood actress doesn't know what a streamer is and didn't have any idea of what they would do when they came to California.
[01:02:43]  You know, I love the moment.
[01:02:45]  I love the moment where they're like pretending like they've only seen a few episodes of The Crown where you know they've seen every bit of it.
[01:02:51]  But totally.
[01:02:53]  But I have to say, but I believe that it was a torturous experience.
[01:02:59]  It's just very hard for me to believe that a woman that is so sophisticated and savvy had no idea what she was getting into in the way that she says.
[01:03:10]  Yeah.
[01:03:11]  I would have rather she just owned it.
[01:03:14]  Honestly, like, yes, I was thrilled to marry a royal.
[01:03:16]  Of course, it's exciting to become a princess.
[01:03:18]  I knew I'd be giving up a lot.
[01:03:20]  I knew I'd have my voice silenced.
[01:03:22]  Of course I did.
[01:03:22]  I'm joining the royal family.
[01:03:24]  But it was 10x what I ever thought it was going to be.
[01:03:27]  And so we decided to leave.
[01:03:29]  And now I'm going to be a private citizen.
[01:03:30]  And they didn't behave great.
[01:03:31]  And by the way, neither did I.
[01:03:33]  And lots of love.
[01:03:34]  Bye.
[01:03:35]  Thanks for my $150 million, which I never would have gotten as a host of suits or an actress in suits who hadn't married a prince.
[01:03:43]  Like, come on.
[01:03:44]  Now, Meghan Markle wasn't going to see $150 million, and she's going to make much more than that.
[01:03:49]  And nobody was going to know her name.
[01:03:51]  It's all thanks to them.
[01:03:52]  But there isn't one drop of gratitude coming from her.
[01:03:55]  It's all about how sad we should feel for her.
[01:04:00]  And how she was the perfect being.
[01:04:01]  She made no mistakes other than trusting these assholes.
[01:04:04]  And it's all on them.
[01:04:06]  I just, okay, I'm all fired up still.

=== Leaving to Be a Private Citizen (11:50) ===

[01:04:07]  All right, Barry, let's move on to more important things.
[01:04:10]  Our country.
[01:04:12]  Okay, but I do think it is politically masterful because if you're the royal family, how do you respond to something so like those accusations were horrific?
[01:04:24]  How do you respond to that?
[01:04:25]  And I just think if we're looking at it just from a purely cold political power strategic perspective, As much as you cringed and your jaw was on the floor, they come out on top.
[01:04:35]  Okay, moving on.
[01:04:35]  I'm sorry.
[01:04:37]  Okay, good.
[01:04:38]  All right.
[01:04:38]  So, the reason I wanted to have you back so soon is because now something's happening.
[01:04:43]  We talked all about how new lanes needed to be created for against these sort of crazy wokesters who are trying to shut everybody down and kick everybody out and cancel everybody and judge everybody, whether it's our schools or it's our corporations or it's our sports.
[01:04:58]  You know, pick your industry.
[01:05:00]  And you've found something that can fight back.
[01:05:05]  You've helped.
[01:05:07]  To start it.
[01:05:09]  And I'm on the advisory board, but I confess I don't totally understand all of what FAIR is doing.
[01:05:14]  So you do.
[01:05:15]  And you're going to walk us through how this can help regular Americans who are sitting at home right now saying, oh my God, what's going on in my school?
[01:05:23]  Or oh my God, my corporation is going to make me take this critical race theory and I don't want to do it and I feel uncomfortable.
[01:05:27]  So it's called FAIR.
[01:05:29]  Can you explain?
[01:05:30]  Yeah.
[01:05:31]  So FAIR is an acronym for the Foundation Against Intolerance and Racism.
[01:05:36]  The president of it was a regular parent.
[01:05:40]  Just like I imagine lots of people who listen to the show, and certainly lots of people who read what I write, who for the past, it's more than a year, have been coming to me.
[01:05:53]  And Megan, I imagine you've had your own experience at school, so you know exactly what I'm talking about, are distressed by sort of the ideological takeover of oftentimes extremely prestigious schools, but sometimes the local public school, because this is really, really widespread.
[01:06:09]  And unlike a lot of parents who Say to themselves, you know, this is bad, but this school is great, and I want my kids to have the best chance possible at getting into the Ivy League.
[01:06:22]  This particular parent, his name is Brian Bartening, said no.
[01:06:26]  Once he, you know, he tried as much as he could to kind of fight it within the school, it didn't seem like it was working.
[01:06:33]  And he basically said, you know what, I don't want my children indoctrinated with this.
[01:06:37]  So he pulled his children out of Riverdale in Manhattan, which is, you know, one of the probably most elite prep schools in the country.
[01:06:46]  And He has no background in politics or activism, but kind of spent a good six months as this was going on educating himself about why his children, and he himself is mixed race, why were they being told to separate themselves by race?
[01:07:05]  Why were they being told to fixate on their immutable characteristics?
[01:07:09]  Why were they told, as he writes in an op ed in today's Wall Street Journal, to check each other's thoughts and actions, which especially to his wife, who's a Jew from the former Soviet Union, who had Jews stamped in her passport.
[01:07:21]  And who once reported her father to the local police because that's the kind of indoctrination you have in the Soviet Union.
[01:07:27]  They, as a couple, were really, really allergic to this kind of ideology.
[01:07:31]  And they were especially disturbed that it was happening in children in elementary school.
[01:07:34]  And so that was the kind of genesis of FAIR.
[01:07:37]  You know, someone with a total entrepreneurial background who thought this is existential.
[01:07:42]  If this spreads everywhere and it seems like it is like wildfire, where are we going to be as a country?
[01:07:49]  Where are we going to be as a culture?
[01:07:51]  This ideology undermines.
[01:07:54]  our most foundational values and our common culture.
[01:07:58]  So, we used to go to the ACLU, right?
[01:08:00]  Like, we used to go to the ACLU to say, hey, help protect my civil liberties.
[01:08:04]  I shouldn't be forced to talk about my immutable characteristics or discriminated against because of them.
[01:08:09]  That's right.
[01:08:10]  But the ACLU, like the SPLC, and like so many organizations that once upheld, you know, the kind of liberal order or stood up for civil liberties and civil rights for all, they're no longer in the business of doing that.
[01:08:25]  I mean, that's the kind of cleanest way to put it.
[01:08:28]  And, you know, we have, thank God, the Foundation for Individual Rights and Education, which is FIRE.
[01:08:35]  Today, a bunch of academics launched something called the Academic Freedom Alliance, I believe it's called, that's trying to do this kind of thing in the academy.
[01:08:43]  But there wasn't any common address to do the kind of work that the ACLU and the SPLC once did to fight the Southern Poverty Law Center.
[01:08:51]  Yeah, sorry.
[01:08:52]  I'm sorry, Megan.
[01:08:53]  Yeah, to educate the public, to empower normal people to understand what was going on, to stand up for what's Right, including by filing lawsuits, to do all of those things in one roof.
[01:09:05]  And most importantly, you know, people used to say proudly, or maybe it was a joke, it's kind of hard to tell, that you're a card carrying member of the ACLU.
[01:09:13]  That might be a conservative talking point that was used to smear liberals.
[01:09:16]  I don't really know.
[01:09:17]  But the point is, it meant something.
[01:09:20]  If you are a card carrying member of the ACLU, it meant that you stood up for a certain set of things.
[01:09:24]  That is what FAIR is aspiring to do.
[01:09:27]  And I think it could not come at a more urgent moment.
[01:09:31]  All right, now, and my next question is going to be like practically speaking, how does this work for people?
[01:09:36]  But before we get to that, just want to point out, poor Bayan, who has the Wall Street Journal piece and who founded this organization, FAIR.
[01:09:43]  And I love the name, too.
[01:09:44]  I mean, it's just like it speaks to exactly what we need Foundation Against Intolerance and Racism.
[01:09:50]  Because as you pointed out, this is neo racism, what we're dealing with here.
[01:09:53]  This is racism against people who don't want racism.
[01:09:56]  It's like, okay, so anyway, so he founded FAIR and his op ed makes pretty clear, Riverdale.
[01:10:05]  Kind of pushed him out.
[01:10:07]  He raised concerns about this craziness.
[01:10:10]  And this is a person of color.
[01:10:12]  And he was like, What are you doing?
[01:10:13]  You know what?
[01:10:14]  Why?
[01:10:14]  This doesn't seem healthy.
[01:10:15]  And they were basically like, Maybe this isn't the school for you.
[01:10:19]  I found that shocking.
[01:10:21]  I guess the reason that I don't is that I've been working for a few weeks now on a school that, sorry, on a piece that interviewed probably almost three dozen, but certainly more than two dozen parents, dissident teachers, and children at 10 of the most prestigious prep schools in LA and New York.
[01:10:42]  And one story that I was told by a young mother in Manhattan who has a preschooler and is, you know, on paper seems like the exact person that you'd want to be in one of these schools.
[01:10:52]  She's kind of like a girl boss, I guess you could say.
[01:10:55]  And it is now part of the interview process in these schools to make sure that your family commits to, you know, the school's anti racism pledge.
[01:11:07]  And I want to be clear for people that are hearing that word.
[01:11:11]  There's a difference, and I think FAIR is trying to make this distinction between good anti racism, the kind of anti racism that says, we want to fight for a world in which Americans, all people, are judged by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin.
[01:11:29]  And then there's bad anti racism that says, you are constrained to the lane that you are born into, and your skin color is sort of the main determinant of.
[01:11:43]  Your path in life.
[01:11:45]  And that, you know, the idea of aspiring toward a world in which we are sort of post racial is not even something we should aspire to.
[01:11:55]  It's basically the critical race theory view of anti racism.
[01:11:58]  The view that is most prominently articulated by someone like Ibrahim Kendi.
[01:12:03]  And so these schools have really sort of gone in hardcore for that view.
[01:12:10]  And the fact that it, to me, the fact that it's part of the process of application blew my mind.
[01:12:18]  I'll tell you one other story that kind of shocked me.
[01:12:21]  This same mother was in the process of trying to figure out where her kids are going to go to school, and she was at home.
[01:12:29]  Drawing with her daughter.
[01:12:31]  And her daughter, who's four years old, said to her, I need to draw in my own skin color.
[01:12:36]  And she told her mother that skin color is really important.
[01:12:40]  And that's what her teachers taught her in preschool.
[01:12:42]  Oh, God.
[01:12:44]  I mean, I know that Brearley, which is one of the best all girls schools in the country, that's here in New York, they're saying that.
[01:12:51]  They're saying that you must declare your anti racist principles.
[01:12:54]  And they don't, again, they mean they're talking about the bad anti racist, the Ibram X. Kendi anti racism, total oxymoron.
[01:13:02]  You must declare it before you even get in.
[01:13:04]  And you have to take anti racism classes.
[01:13:07]  You got to go through, you know, sort of the deprogramming for your racism before you can get in.
[01:13:13]  Well, and it's affected every aspect.
[01:13:18]  It's not just like you have to take a kind of human resources like DI thing, it infects the whole curriculum.
[01:13:25]  So a student at Fieldston told me that in physics, they were told, you know, we don't call them Newton's laws anymore.
[01:13:32]  We call them the three fundamental laws of physics because her teacher told her, We need to de center whiteness.
[01:13:40]  I don't even understand that.
[01:13:41]  What?
[01:13:42]  What?
[01:13:43]  Yeah, I'm telling you.
[01:13:46]  I mean, this is at a level that is wild.
[01:13:49]  And I think what is important for people to understand is that it's kind of easy to laugh off like the radical chic politics of a school like Dalton, right?
[01:13:58]  Or a school like Harvard Westlake in LA or Brentwood, where I am right now.
[01:14:03]  But the point, right, is that the prep schools mirror what The so called meritocracy, what elite America wants.
[01:14:13]  Nothing happens in those schools that isn't a reflection of what Harvard and Yale and Princeton, and therefore all of the very prestigious places that people from those schools go off to work, want.
[01:14:24]  And so, as I'm reporting this story, I see that the Cartoon Network is imploring children to see color.
[01:14:31]  I see that Coca Cola employees in their DI initiative were instructed to be less white.
[01:14:36]  We see eBay removing all listings of the newly problematic Dr. Seuss.
[01:14:42]  It's very important for people to understand that this ideology is so savvy because it claims to be speaking truth to power.
[01:14:53]  But the reality is that it is the power increasingly.
[01:14:57]  It is the power.
[01:14:59]  Yeah, that's exactly right.
[01:15:01]  And we ignored it at our peril.
[01:15:02]  We did that.
[01:15:03]  That's how we got in this mess.
[01:15:04]  I remember back in 2010, I want to say, I was on the air every day laughing at this nonsense about what cupcakes we'd become, about he couldn't say anything.
[01:15:15]  Right and just sort of laughing at these college students who needed their safe spaces for everything.
[01:15:19]  Well, guess what they won.
[01:15:22]  Who's laughing now?
[01:15:23]  Right, and so we ignored at our peril, because now it's seeped down into k through 12 education.
[01:15:28]  So they're getting to them even sooner with this indoctrination and this non-stop censorship of how one must think and see the world.
[01:15:36]  So if we don't fight back now, prepare to lose forever.
[01:15:39]  Prepare because they're really.
[01:15:40]  I I think a they're indoctrinating children, but b they're sowing such division.
[01:15:45]  This is going to have such negative long-term consequences when it comes to race relations.
[01:15:49]  We have no idea the devil we're unleashing here.
[01:15:53]  Well, I would say, you know, there was one teenage boy that I spoke to.

=== Unleashing the Devil on Race Relations (05:19) ===

[01:15:58]  Who told me that, you know, if I even named him or described him as a capitalist, it would ruin his life?
[01:16:05]  This is obviously hilarious to me, given the kind of school that this young man goes to.
[01:16:10]  But I don't doubt that he's telling me the truth, given what's, you know, happened to other kids.
[01:16:16]  Yeah, I would just say that the.
[01:16:19]  So he said to me, he said to me, MLK would condemn my school.
[01:16:27]  Much more now about my race than I've ever thought about it before.
[01:16:32]  And I think that, you know, having people fixate on their race, having people think that whiteness is an important thing for who they are, the backlash to that, you know, the downstream effects of that are really scary to me.
[01:16:48]  Yeah, they are.
[01:16:49]  And now, again, I am going to get to specifically what people can do to help themselves with this, but let's just talk for one second about some of the backlash to the announcement affair.
[01:17:00]  Right.
[01:17:00]  It's like this is an organization that's going to fight racism.
[01:17:04]  It's going to fight intolerance.
[01:17:06]  It's going to stand up for people who are being bullied.
[01:17:08]  And then you get people like this guy, this guy was part of the Reply All podcast that just got, quote, paused after one of the podcast hosts were, they were accused of contributing to a toxic workplace, toxic workplace.
[01:17:23]  Okay.
[01:17:23]  So this is the Reply All podcast.
[01:17:25]  And this guy who's associated with it has decided FAIR sucks.
[01:17:29]  That FAIR is, quote, a, is, quote, A bunch of far right psychos and ghouls who have formed an organization to defend their right to be racist in public.
[01:17:39]  So that's how this guy, Alex Goldman, sums up what you're doing, what I'm doing, what Glenn Lowry's doing, what Coleman Hughes is doing, Thomas Chatter Jim, no, okay, racist psychos and ghouls.
[01:17:51]  Well, I mean, I, you know, I, the, the, we don't have time to get into the reply all cancellation turducken that was truly, you know, ripped straight from the onion, that entire situation.
[01:18:06]  And if I described it to your listeners, they would actually think I was a psycho.
[01:18:09]  So I'm not going to do that.
[01:18:11]  I will simply say that I don't put much stock in his view or the view of any of these random people that want to tear down rather than build up.
[01:18:23]  I will simply say that I am so proud to be on a board with the people that you named and two dozen more who are some of my heroes in the culture.
[01:18:35]  Someone like Daryl Davis, who's counseled dozens of people out of the KKK.
[01:18:40]  Someone like, you know, Ion Hersele, Camille Foster, John McCorder, you know, Megyn Kelly, I'm Coleman.
[01:18:48]  I'm just so proud.
[01:18:50]  And I think of the board and this whole group as kind of the best advertisement for what fair is meant to be about.
[01:18:57]  We certainly don't agree on everything, but we're coming together, a coalition of liberals and moderates and conservatives to say, enough.
[01:19:05]  These are the values that uphold.
[01:19:08]  Like, I don't think people understand.
[01:19:11]  How fragile a liberal democracy is.
[01:19:16]  I don't mean to sound too high minded, but I really don't think people grasp that.
[01:19:20]  And I think what FAIR understands is that it is fragile and that those basic ideas, you know, that we don't judge each other based on our immutable characteristics, that we don't believe that people have racial, collective racial guilt, that we believe that we're all entitled to fair treatment and equality under the law.
[01:19:42]  I mean, those seem so obvious, it's almost sad to have to assert them.
[01:19:46]  But unfortunately, they're not obvious right now.
[01:19:49]  And I'm just very proud to be part of an organization that's really trying to raise that flag.
[01:19:55]  Me too.
[01:19:56]  When I heard the names of the people who are involved, my heart swelled.
[01:19:59]  It was like, oh my God, this is a cast of all stars who are getting behind this organization that's going to fight for good.
[01:20:07]  And unlike the Harper's Letter, which, and I love Thomas Chatterton Williams, he's coming on soon, but unlike the Harper's Letter, which really didn't have any true conservatives, you know, it was only people who didn't like Trump.
[01:20:18]  Now they were ideologically different, but they all disliked Trump.
[01:20:22]  This is, I mean, across the board, people who have, Really different opinions, people whose political stripes are opposite of one another's, but coming together to fight this singular, hugely important battle.
[01:20:37]  That's why it gives me hope that we're going to win.
[01:20:41]  You know, it's like, that's what we need.
[01:20:43]  This is the microcosm of what we need America to be next.
[01:20:47]  I totally think it's modeling the kind of cooperation and conversation that we need to see in the world, like doing it ourselves and showing other people that that's possible.
[01:20:59]  And, um, Yeah.
[01:21:01]  I mean, we had Eli Steele, who's also on the board, who I was crying, Megan, when I listened to him on your podcast.
[01:21:07]  We had him over for about dinner two nights ago, and we were talking about this.
[01:21:11]  And it just got me so excited about what's possible and what we can do.

=== Modeling Global Cooperation (03:33) ===

[01:21:17]  So, this is a first attempt.
[01:21:18]  You know, last time I was on, we talked about all of the things that need to be built.
[01:21:22]  You know, this is one of so many things.
[01:21:24]  So, I would just encourage anyone listening to this the work's not over.
[01:21:27]  Like, this is just the first property.
[01:21:31]  So, okay.
[01:21:32]  And of course, if you want to support FAIR, please go ahead.
[01:21:36]  You can Google it, fair.org, right?
[01:21:40]  It's fairforall.org.
[01:21:42]  And if you want to sign up, it's backslash join us.
[01:21:46]  And I will say that we know that people are really concerned about anonymity around this issue and protecting people's privacy.
[01:21:54]  And we can absolutely assure you that we will.
[01:21:58]  And, you know, I would say that the most urgent thing, there's lots of things we're going to do.
[01:22:02]  The most urgent thing I would say that we're doing right now is organizing parents.
[01:22:05]  In chapters all over the country.
[01:22:07]  And so if you're a parent and you're concerned about what's going on in your child's school, this is the organization for you.
[01:22:14]  Okay, yeah.
[01:22:14]  So, as a practical, so what are the, where are we starting?
[01:22:19]  Schools, yes, 100%.
[01:22:20]  Anything else right now?
[01:22:22]  Educating the public.
[01:22:24]  It shouldn't take someone like Baian six months to understand what critical race theory is, what post structuralism is, where these ideas come from.
[01:22:33]  We want to be making, and one of the things that this ideology does.
[01:22:38]  Is that it dresses itself up in very seductive, often very jargony language that makes people who don't have a PhD feel like they're not smart enough to understand it.
[01:22:50]  We think that's frankly BS.
[01:22:52]  And we want to be educating people about what this ideology really is, despite what it claims to be and why it's so dangerous.
[01:23:02]  And we want to be organizing and connecting the people that feel isolated in their school and their company, connecting them so they feel part of a community.
[01:23:11]  Ultimately, what we want to be doing is offering people an alternative.
[01:23:14]  So, for example, if you're running a company and you're going to do a DI initiative, there's one widget on the shelf, and that widget is the critical race theory version of anti racism.
[01:23:25]  We want to offer the Daryl Davis, John McCorder, Glenn Lowry, Coleman Hughes, Chloe Valdari version of anti racism one that is pro human, that is positive, that is optimistic, and that's rooted in compassion.
[01:23:41]  So, those are some of the things we want to be doing.
[01:23:45]  I'll leave one last thing.
[01:23:46]  What's DNI?
[01:23:47]  Explain DNI.
[01:23:50]  Diversity and Inclusion Initiative.
[01:23:53]  So, you know, when Coca Cola is doing A diversity and inclusion initiative through their HR, we don't want that initiative to be one that tells people that they need to be less white because that's not really useful.
[01:24:09]  We want to, or, you know, like I'm thinking about, I think it's the Sacramento, sorry, the San Diego School District just had a training in which white teachers were told that they spirit murder black children.
[01:24:23]  We don't think that that's really a great message.
[01:24:26]  Or a useful or productive pathway toward healing divisions, toward racial comedy.
[01:24:33]  Yeah.
[01:24:34]  Or, like in my case, in my son's school, telling all the kids in the classroom who love each other, are best pals, go to every birthday party, every event together, hang out at every free moment they can, that one of them is a future killer cop because there are white children in the class.

=== Legal Battles Over Critical Race Theory (10:19) ===

[01:24:51]  That happened.
[01:24:52]  It's insanity.
[01:24:53]  And then they're like, divisive.
[01:24:54]  What do you mean?
[01:24:55]  This is anti racist.
[01:24:57]  No, it isn't.
[01:24:58]  It's nothing of the kind.
[01:25:00]  So let's get back to connecting communities that don't know they're connected.
[01:25:07]  So if you're at a school and you object to this stuff, but you're too scared to say anything publicly for good reason, how would it work?
[01:25:16]  How would you get connected with other parents who feel the same?
[01:25:20]  Well, we're setting up chapters all over the country right now.
[01:25:24]  So you could be, for example, I was speaking to a mother the other day at Brentwood and she called me, she was crying.
[01:25:32]  Because of the things her eighth grade daughter is being taught about giving up her spot for, I mean, I can't even, the stories, it's just like the kind of thing that you experienced at collegiate.
[01:25:42]  And right now, that parent is thinking, I'm alone in this.
[01:25:45]  How do I find like minded people?
[01:25:48]  We want to help her connect to other like minded people, A, to help her, to empower her in her own school, because if there is a group of parents, often that can be much more effective.
[01:25:59]  Or if she's feeling like this isn't the right place for her to find, Places that are.
[01:26:05]  So we're at the, you know, listen, this was an organization that started eight weeks ago.
[01:26:10]  You know, it's a startup that we're bootstrapping, but we feel that simply by connecting people and making them feel, making it feel clear that they're not alone, giving them the tools to raise a ruckus in their school and seeing where that can go.
[01:26:29]  That's huge because back to Bayan, who founded the organization and wrote the op ed in the journal.
[01:26:36]  You know, he was effectively told you might want to leave.
[01:26:39]  And so if you're worried about that, and parents are, they love their kids.
[01:26:43]  They worked hard to get into these schools.
[01:26:45]  They're great schools.
[01:26:46]  They know it's easy to say, like, just leave, you know.
[01:26:49]  But we also really wrestled with leaving.
[01:26:52]  We loved our schools, loved them, loved our teachers.
[01:26:56]  We didn't want to leave, you know.
[01:26:58]  But in the end, we just thought it was a fight that was not winnable.
[01:27:01]  That's truly how I felt.
[01:27:03]  And we had researched for a year, Barry.
[01:27:05]  We had spoken to parents with way more money and way more power than we had.
[01:27:10]  Who and learned about the battles they fought and how little any of that meant to the schools.
[01:27:15]  Parents who pulled tens of millions in donations, like they had given them one year and said, no more, no, don't care.
[01:27:21]  Who had gone public, don't care.
[01:27:23]  Who had tried to shame them or even threaten litigation, don't care.
[01:27:27]  So, like, our conclusion was it's not winnable.
[01:27:29]  Anyway, my point is.
[01:27:32]  And those are parents with the means, right?
[01:27:35]  Like, do you want to be, like, think about if you're a public school parent, you know, who is, you know, the incoming New York City schools chancellor, for example.
[01:27:43]  Is a very vocal fan on Twitter of critical race theory and Ibrahim Kendi.
[01:27:48]  You know, you think it can't get worse after Richard Carranza?
[01:27:51]  Well, maybe it can.
[01:27:53]  And Right now, there is nothing, there is no organization and no force trying to push back against this.
[01:28:01]  No organization at all, so far as we can tell.
[01:28:04]  We want to be that organization.
[01:28:06]  And, you know, the power of it depends on how many people get involved.
[01:28:10]  And we're thrilled with the reaction so far and just really, really want to encourage everyone because right now, this is a totally volunteer organization and we need your help.
[01:28:19]  Yes, right.
[01:28:20]  So feel free to donate too.
[01:28:22]  But what I was going to say is, If you find peers who feel the same as you, they can't throw all of you out.
[01:28:29]  The schools need bodies and they can't throw all of you out.
[01:28:33]  So if it's just one twisting in the wind, that's one thing.
[01:28:36]  But if it's a group of parents saying, we object, your power is much greater, your security is greater, your confidence is greater.
[01:28:43]  So this could be a clearinghouse to sort of try to get through all of that and connect people who are too afraid to talk to each other.
[01:28:49]  And it's funny because they could be neighbors, they could be at.
[01:28:52]  That's right.
[01:28:52]  I'll guarantee you they're going to be parents who are at the diversity and inclusion lecture.
[01:28:58]  Sitting right next to each other, being supportive, who are looking for people who want to push back on some of the crazier aspects of it, but don't know that the person sitting right next to them feels as they do.
[01:29:08]  That's exactly right.
[01:29:10]  Because people are very, very closeted and scared to speak out against this because, you know, it's not just their reputation and their professional, you know, status that's at stake, it's the reputation of their children.
[01:29:22]  And they don't want to hurt their children.
[01:29:24]  They don't want their children to have, you know, that to carry what is a Fortunately, a kind of moral stain, which is what happens when you are skeptical of this ideology.
[01:29:35]  So, yeah, there's so much more to say.
[01:29:39]  I'm here to tell you, having just gone through this, there are schools out there that don't see it that way, that understand what's being done to those children is inappropriate, and that the schools have no business dividing the children like this and shaming the children like this over immutable characteristics on both sides the white kids, the black kids, both of them.
[01:29:57]  So, they are out there.
[01:29:59]  We've found a couple, and ours are not the only ones.
[01:30:02]  It did take some effort.
[01:30:03]  But do your homework, do your research.
[01:30:05]  And if you can't move, if you can't find another school, then you got to fight.
[01:30:09]  You just got to fight.
[01:30:10]  You have no other choice at this point because it's your kid.
[01:30:13]  It's your kid's emotional well being in a day and age when suicide rates among teenagers are at an all time high.
[01:30:19]  If you won't fight for yourself, fight for your child.
[01:30:22]  I totally agree.
[01:30:23]  And I want to also say that, you know, one thing that struck me, I was at a sort of secret meeting that I write about in this piece that's coming out of parents who are sort of organizing at Harvard Westlake, which is a Really elite private school out here in LA.
[01:30:38]  You know, as you were saying, like collective action is what's necessary and what works.
[01:30:43]  And, you know, at the end of the conversation, one of them said, Should we maybe just like try and make a new school?
[01:30:49]  And I think that's exactly the kind of mentality that we need right now.
[01:30:54]  Fight as hard as you can.
[01:30:56]  You have every right to be in these places, you know, and you have every right to make sure that your child isn't being indoctrinated.
[01:31:05]  Like, you know, if you're the kind of parent that can afford to send your child to a private school, you might also be the kind of parent with the connections and possibly the initiative to try and start new schools that do live up, that give your child the kind of rigorous education that you want.
[01:31:22]  And so, again, like I said on the last time we talked, Megan, and as we've talked about many times in between, I really believe that we're in a period of building.
[01:31:32]  And I think that some of these parents are going to be so supercharged that they're going to do that kind of Thing and I'm really, really eager to see it.
[01:31:41]  Now, Barry, what about legal help?
[01:31:44]  FAIR is getting in that game for sure.
[01:31:49]  There's other initiatives that are also cropping up that I think will be announced in the coming weeks that are going to be specifically and totally focused on.
[01:31:57]  Lawfare, but we have an amazing legal network.
[01:32:00]  And if you are someone in a public school where you feel like your child is being discriminated against based on their race or their religion, as the mother in the Las Vegas suit did and brought a lawsuit, we are absolutely here for you.
[01:32:20]  And you should reach out to us, and we would love to connect you to our amazing legal network and see if you have a case.
[01:32:26]  Exactly.
[01:32:27]  Because there are a lot of lawyers who are now.
[01:32:29]  Volunteering time on this, or who have benefactors paying for these lawsuits because they want to see a Supreme Court case right now, given this bench get handled.
[01:32:39]  So don't be deterred because you don't have the money to fight the legal battle.
[01:32:43]  If you have a good case, contact FAIR and we'll help place you with somebody.
[01:32:48]  Because as Barry points out, I'm part of another initiative too that's trying to work on getting legal teams together.
[01:32:53]  And Chris Ruffo's got one going.
[01:32:55]  So there's a bunch of options that are now sprouting up that will be able to help people.
[01:32:59]  And just to speak about that Las Vegas case.
[01:33:02]  So it's a It's a mother suing on behalf of her mixed race son who is, he's mixed race, but he looks white and he's in an all black class.
[01:33:12]  And she objected to the school trying to make him say what race he is, right?
[01:33:16]  Like, none of your damn business, right?
[01:33:18]  Like, I, I, maybe he doesn't want to say he's mixed race.
[01:33:22]  And she's winning.
[01:33:23]  The court out there found that she had a likelihood of success on the merits because they were forcing her son to engage in compelled speech.
[01:33:33]  That's a great ruling because when she goes into court down the line, she hasn't won yet.
[01:33:37]  They're saying she has a likelihood of success.
[01:33:39]  When she goes into court down the line, the court is going to have to evaluate now what the school's doing under what's called a strict scrutiny standard.
[01:33:48]  And that's very tough.
[01:33:50]  It's going to be very tough for the school to defend its behavior.
[01:33:53]  So these are all good things that are happening that could help everybody and not just in schools.
[01:33:58]  You get a couple good rulings about this when it comes to critical race theory being shoved down the kids' throats.
[01:34:02]  It can translate into corporate America and beyond.
[01:34:05]  All these are really important.
[01:34:06]  And if you think you have a good case, get out there because there are smart, wealthy people who would like to help you see it through.
[01:34:14]  Yes, come join FAIR.
[01:34:17]  We would absolutely love to help you.
[01:34:23]  Our thanks to Barry Weiss and to Dan Wooten.
[01:34:25]  Don't forget to tune into the show on Wednesday when we have Andrew Schultz.
[01:34:29]  He's an amazing comedian.
[01:34:32]  He's completely brilliant.
[01:34:34]  He's been tearing up the internet with his bits on various issues.
[01:34:38]  And I think he's somebody with whom I'm going to disagree on several things politically, but we'll agree to disagree and have fun doing it.
[01:34:46]  I think you're going to get a lot of laughs, so don't miss Wednesday's show.
[01:34:49]  We'll talk then.
[01:34:51]  Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.
[01:34:53]  No BS, no agenda, and no fear.
[01:34:57]  The Megyn Kelly Show is a devil-may-care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures.

=== Agreeing to Disagree Politically (00:38) ===

[01:35:10]  Hi, I'm Levertiem.
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[01:35:27]  Levertiem.
[01:35:29]  Levertiem.
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