The Megyn Kelly Show - 20201225_former-father-jonathan-morris-and-his-wife-kaitlyn
Aired: 2020-12-25
Duration: 01:16:49


=== Welcome Jonathan and Caitlin (02:59) ===

[00:00:03]  Welcome to The Megan Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.
[00:00:12]  Hey everyone, it's Megan Kelly.
[00:00:14]  Welcome to The Megan Kelly Show and Merry Christmas.
[00:00:18]  Today on the program, a perfect couple of guests.
[00:00:21]  We've got Jonathan Morris and Caitlin Morris.
[00:00:24]  Jonathan Morris is better known to a lot of the folks who listen to this show as Father Jonathan.
[00:00:31]  Now, formerly Father Jonathan Morris.
[00:00:34]  He's a Fox News contributor.
[00:00:35]  That's where I first met him.
[00:00:36]  And in May of 2019, he announced he was leaving the priesthood.
[00:00:42]  And shortly thereafter, it did not overlap, or did it?
[00:00:45]  We'll ask.
[00:00:46]  No, it didn't.
[00:00:47]  He met Caitlin.
[00:00:48]  And we'll take it from there when you meet them in a minute.
[00:00:51]  But the story of how it all happened is absolutely fascinating.
[00:00:56]  And we just thought it would be a perfect couple to bring on this time of year just to celebrate, yes, God.
[00:01:04]  choices in life, independence, and love, ultimately love.
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[00:02:34]  And now, my now former priest, but current friend, Jonathan Morris and his wife, Caitlin.
[00:02:45]  Sweet newlyweds together with me.
[00:02:50]  The weird third wheel.
[00:02:52]  Okay, there's so much to go over with you.
[00:02:53]  So I'm going to start with you, Jonathan.
[00:02:56]  So Caitlin, stand by because I got to get your story on record, Jonathan.
[00:03:01]  I can't call you Jonathan.

=== Leaving the Religious Order (16:12) ===

[00:03:02]  I've only ever called you Father, Jonathan.
[00:03:04]  So I can't do that now.
[00:03:06]  So Janice Dean and I decided we're going to call you FFJ.
[00:03:09]  You used to be FJ.
[00:03:10]  Now you're formerly Father.
[00:03:11]  So FFJ.
[00:03:12]  Is my that's going to be my interim term for you, and I'll try to grow into Jonathan.
[00:03:17]  That's fine, you can call me whatever you like, and that's part of our history, that's part of my history.
[00:03:24]  And I'm so glad that this history is connected with yours over so many years.
[00:03:28]  Oh, you have been such a beautiful friend to me, and counselor, and just amazing presence in my life.
[00:03:35]  So I'm thrilled to have you and to be talking about your joy.
[00:03:39]  Um, so you grew up in Ann Arbor, Michigan.
[00:03:43]  And I love the story of how you first became a priest.
[00:03:47]  I remember sitting in a little restaurant with you and Doug years ago, maybe, I don't know, it must have been 13 years ago or so, 12 years ago.
[00:03:55]  And you were telling me this story and I couldn't believe how it happened.
[00:04:00]  So, before we get to this moment, did you grow up very religious?
[00:04:04]  I would say my parents tried to raise me very religious.
[00:04:08]  That was that.
[00:04:10]  Certainly, a religious home.
[00:04:12]  But at the same time, I kind of instinctively rejected that during my, especially during my high school years.
[00:04:22]  And so, do you have brothers and sisters?
[00:04:24]  I know you have at least one sister.
[00:04:26]  I have six siblings.
[00:04:28]  So, yeah, a big Catholic family, seven kids.
[00:04:33]  Mostly grew up in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and then also in Akron and Cleveland, Ohio.
[00:04:39]  So, maybe typical Catholic, large Catholic family of years past that would maybe at least encourage or be open to one of the children becoming a priest or a nun.
[00:04:53]  But certainly that was not encouraged, and I had no idea or any interest in that growing up, at least halfway through college.
[00:05:02]  You know, it's funny because my mom and dad, my mom is very Catholic and my dad was very Catholic.
[00:05:10]  And even my stepdad is very Catholic.
[00:05:12]  But my mom, too, tried to do the Catholic thing when she first married my dad.
[00:05:17]  You know, she saved herself to marriage.
[00:05:19]  And then, as she puts it, she had two babies in two years and she said, forget that, got herself some birth control.
[00:05:25]  And I came along five years later.
[00:05:27]  But there's so many big Catholic families in part for that reason.
[00:05:30]  Yeah.
[00:05:31]  Well, and thank God that, you know, five years later you came along.
[00:05:34]  That's right.
[00:05:35]  As I like to remind my brother and sister, I was the only one they really wanted.
[00:05:38]  I was the only one planned.
[00:05:40]  Okay.
[00:05:42]  All right.
[00:05:42]  So you grew up a Catholic family, and, you know, maybe there's some.
[00:05:47]  Did you know there might be some hope that you would enter the priesthood one day?
[00:05:52]  No.
[00:05:53]  The only first memory, Megan, that I have of being somehow attracted to the priesthood or like a kind of a noble calling was I remember my parents had a.
[00:06:05]  Priest friend who was like this traveling missionary came and celebrate mass at our house.
[00:06:12]  I have no idea why they did that, but anyway, he came and was like in the living room.
[00:06:16]  I don't know if he was asking for money or if he would, like, I have no idea what, but he left in the closet his chalice and the wafers, what we would call unconsecrated hosts, right?
[00:06:31]  And I remember, first of all, being fascinated by him as a person, that he would talk about his missionary work.
[00:06:37]  And traveling.
[00:06:38]  I don't know if it was the travel that was interesting to me, or I think it was more than that.
[00:06:43]  It was the travel in order to do something great in his life.
[00:06:48]  And he was pitching that to us and telling us about it.
[00:06:51]  I found it fascinating.
[00:06:52]  But then, some like very late night, I snuck down into that closet and I saw the chalice and I saw those wafers.
[00:07:00]  And I had this is a confession, Megan.
[00:07:03]  You've, well, I can't say if you've been to confession to me or not, but I've had the worst of my.
[00:07:08]  This is my confession to you.
[00:07:11]  I went up into that closet and I took some of the wafers down and I ate them.
[00:07:16]  I don't know.
[00:07:16]  I felt like, I don't know.
[00:07:19]  I was like testing it out or something.
[00:07:20]  So, to answer your question, I had very little interest in priesthood or in anything like that until halfway through college.
[00:07:30]  And I can tell you that about that.
[00:07:32]  Yes, I love this part.
[00:07:33]  So, it reminds me of the Saturday Night Fever line My girlfriend, she loves the taste of communion wafers, Father.
[00:07:39]  Which really nobody ever says.
[00:07:41]  I mean, that's the truth, but you were a different story.
[00:07:43]  Okay.
[00:07:44]  So you get to college.
[00:07:46]  What was your major in college when you first got there?
[00:07:49]  I studied business, business administration, marketing.
[00:07:53]  You think you're going a different route?
[00:07:55]  And then tell us what happened.
[00:07:56]  Very different.
[00:07:57]  Well, I ended up rooming with a friend of mine who.
[00:08:01]  Was from Los Angeles, and he said he told me that he was thinking about being a priest.
[00:08:05]  Now, this was a Catholic college, and so there was a kind of underlining Catholic culture to it, but we were part of kind of like the bad boys fraternity.
[00:08:16]  You know, we used to say, yeah, we'll go to confession if anybody drinks more than X number of beers, okay?
[00:08:22]  And X number was like, wait, it should have been XX, right?
[00:08:27]  Like it was a way too high number, right?
[00:08:30]  So we were not really.
[00:08:32]  On the path towards religious, certainly religious conversion or even real attachment.
[00:08:40]  But my roommate said that he had this profoundly religious spiritual experience in high school.
[00:08:45]  He turned away from some of his bad ways and he was thinking about being a priest.
[00:08:50]  But then every so he was a year ahead of me in college, every freshman class that came in of girls, he would start dating them and he would forget the idea of celibate priesthood.
[00:09:02]  Very quickly, and I would say, Rhett, like, what happened?
[00:09:05]  Like, I thought you were thinking about this, and all I could think of, and I don't know if this was God or if this was my upbringing, I have no idea.
[00:09:13]  But I said to him, Rhett, there will be consequences whether you choose to go the route of priesthood and missionary or not.
[00:09:22]  So don't just go with what you feel, try to decide what you should do.
[00:09:28]  And so the two of us went to a seminary to visit, seminaries where guys were thinking about being a priest.
[00:09:36]  Go and study.
[00:09:37]  And I went with him to make sure he went.
[00:09:39]  He ended up saying, Yes, I'm staying.
[00:09:42]  He stayed for seven days.
[00:09:43]  He took off.
[00:09:45]  But in those seven days, I visited him, and one thing led to another.
[00:09:48]  I ended up staying for 26 years.
[00:09:52]  So when you said, I'm going to do it, and he said, I'm not, what was that moment like?
[00:10:00]  Well, I don't know.
[00:10:02]  He might have been thinking about my girlfriend, to be honest, because He laughed.
[00:10:06]  I stayed.
[00:10:07]  I broke up with my girlfriend of two years.
[00:10:09]  I called him.
[00:10:10]  I'm saying, I'm staying.
[00:10:12]  I said, Rhett, do me a favor.
[00:10:15]  Take care of Tasha.
[00:10:17]  Oh, boy.
[00:10:18]  And he said, I got your back, buddy.
[00:10:22]  They are married and they have eight kids.
[00:10:25]  No.
[00:10:26]  Were you in the wedding?
[00:10:29]  I was not invited to the wedding.
[00:10:31]  It was too soon.
[00:10:31]  Oh, I was going to say, if they had waited just a couple of years, you could have officiated it.
[00:10:37]  That's hilarious.
[00:10:38]  What a fun story they have too for how they first got together.
[00:10:43]  Okay, so now, so at that point in your life when you decided I'm going to do this, how old were you?
[00:10:48]  So I was 21 when I first left the seminary.
[00:10:52]  Okay.
[00:10:53]  And so at that point, you mentioned you had Tasha.
[00:10:56]  So you had had girlfriends.
[00:10:58]  Yes.
[00:10:59]  21 year old guy, Catholic or not, you really were just trying to see where you're going.
[00:11:04]  I'm trying to see where you're going.
[00:11:05]  You know where I'm going.
[00:11:06]  You know exactly where I'm going.
[00:11:07]  I know when you said you had Tasha.
[00:11:09]  You had a girlfriend.
[00:11:11]  No, she's trying to hide it.
[00:11:13]  I didn't mean had in like the previous person.
[00:11:16]  My wife is on this call.
[00:11:19]  I meant you had experienced a girlfriend in your world.
[00:11:24]  Yeah, romance.
[00:11:25]  Beautiful.
[00:11:25]  So was it hard to like step away from, you know, I mean, whatever had happened there?
[00:11:31]  I think it would be hard to sort of say, I don't want that anymore.
[00:11:35]  Because of course, the Catholic priesthood requires you to reject that.
[00:11:39]  It was hard.
[00:11:39]  It was very hard.
[00:11:40]  And I ended up joining.
[00:11:42]  This is probably.
[00:11:43]  A good topic for a whole nother podcast, but I ended up joining a religious order that was, I would call it a cult, founded by a super Super charismatic guy who ended up becoming very friendly with Pope John Paul II.
[00:12:06]  Ended up from this little teensy tiny town in Mexico, he ended up founding and then growing this religious order that swept the world, bringing together some of the most, I think, talented young men.
[00:12:20]  The fastest growing order in the Catholic Church, it was called the Legionaries of Christ.
[00:12:26]  One thing, fast forward 15 years, 20 years really, I had been in this the whole time.
[00:12:32]  It was discovered that this man was a total fraud, that he had multiple families around the world, that he had abused seminarians, that he had children, that he had abused his own children.
[00:12:44]  It's a long story.
[00:12:45]  His name was Father Marcial, Marcial Marcial.
[00:12:50]  So they used very heavy recruiting tactics.
[00:12:55]  I remember one time with my roommate in college, they're talking to one of these recruiters and they looked at me.
[00:13:03]  They were supposedly.
[00:13:05]  Recruiting him, but they looked at me and they said, Jonathan, you were created by God from all eternity to be a member of the Legionaries of Christ.
[00:13:16]  That left a huge impression.
[00:13:18]  Because it was a reinforcement over and over of, you're in the right place, you're doing the right thing, this is your highest and best calling.
[00:13:25]  That's right.
[00:13:26]  So, wait, when you say you were with them, you were with them for 20 years or just 20 years later, he was exposed?
[00:13:33]  So, I was with them for, I think, 15 years.
[00:13:37]  And then when he was exposed, I quickly asked for a basically to be dismissed from that order to be let go and I joined the Archdiocese of New York under the great welcome and leadership of Timothy Dolan, Cardinal Dolan of New York.
[00:13:58]  When you were with the legionaries, where were you?
[00:14:01]  So I lived in Rome for nine years, Rome, Italy.
[00:14:04]  So I was with them.
[00:14:05]  That's when I first started working for the Fox News channel, CNN first, and then the Fox News channel.
[00:14:13]  As a commentator.
[00:14:14]  And then I was there for, gosh, I guess another five years.
[00:14:19]  And then I transferred out of that order when everything was falling apart.
[00:14:23]  It still exists, believe it or not.
[00:14:25]  And a lot of great people involved with it, but the order is rotten from within, in my opinion.
[00:14:32]  And then I came to New York.
[00:14:33]  And that's when you came to New York.
[00:14:35]  Okay, that's when we met.
[00:14:37]  So you're over there in Rome, and this is when.
[00:14:43]  We first met when you were covering the death of Pope John Paul II, right?
[00:14:48]  This is how I met you.
[00:14:49]  Yeah, so I would have been in Rome over there.
[00:14:51]  And then I came back to New York and I've been in New York for 10 years.
[00:14:57]  Okay.
[00:14:57]  And is it true you were actually with the Pope when he died?
[00:15:01]  Not when he died.
[00:15:02]  I was with him personally, I think the last time on Easter Sunday, Easter Sunday of, you know, in that same year that he died.
[00:15:15]  So I walked up and I was delivering this gift to him, and they brought me in and sat me down at his Easter lunch table.
[00:15:25]  So it was in a pretty amazing moment for me.
[00:15:29]  I mean, is that even just like as a lowly Catholic?
[00:15:34]  I can't imagine what it would feel like to be next to him in particular, Pope John Paul II.
[00:15:40]  I mean, as a priest, did you feel, was it electric?
[00:15:43]  What was it like?
[00:15:43]  Yes, it was electric at the same time, Megan.
[00:15:46]  It's interesting looking back on it because he was one who was complicit, I don't think intentionally, but I think he was complicit in allowing this really monster of a guy, Father Maciel.
[00:16:00]  To dupe him and all of us.
[00:16:04]  So here was a very, I think, a very holy, saintly man who's actually been made a saint in the Catholic Church.
[00:16:09]  He's been canonized, but he, I think, allowed himself to be duped.
[00:16:15]  And there was not good management, I can tell you that.
[00:16:19]  Oh, yeah.
[00:16:20]  You know, so it's really, I have mixed feelings.
[00:16:23]  Certainly, I felt electrified being with him.
[00:16:26]  At the same time, I hope I'm not too cynical right now, but I say, I wish you would have done something differently.
[00:16:32]  Well, yeah.
[00:16:33]  I mean, a lot of folks, Catholic and non, are looking at the Catholic Church feeling that on a number of levels.
[00:16:39]  Getting back to you and you're getting hired at Fox News.
[00:16:42]  You were, so for our audience who doesn't know you, FFJ is a very good looking man.
[00:16:49]  He is a very good looking, he's the best looking priest.
[00:16:53]  We used to call you Father What A Waste.
[00:16:54]  I don't know if you knew that.
[00:16:55]  Did you know that?
[00:16:57]  I read it in your book.
[00:17:00]  That's a plug.
[00:17:01]  That's a plug.
[00:17:02]  So yeah, we used to call him Father What A Waste, you know, and you know why.
[00:17:06]  You were like an instant celebrity because you were this priest who could really explain what we were watching.
[00:17:12]  And we would always cover, you know, the Pope's deaths or the new Pope who was coming in.
[00:17:17]  And you could just explain it in terms that people would understand.
[00:17:20]  You were always incredibly affable, very good communicator.
[00:17:23]  And this is why not only did CNN hire you, Fox News hired you, you became a Wall Street Journal contributor, you got a serious XM radio show on the Catholic Channel.
[00:17:33]  You were featured in the movie The Irishman for like a while.
[00:17:37]  And You became what I think is the closest thing I've seen to a celebrity priest.
[00:17:43]  So I wonder if you ever got a hard time for that from your other priests.
[00:17:50]  Caitlin will be brought in in a minute.
[00:17:52]  But I think she will say, yes, they were freaking jealous.
[00:17:57]  Okay, that's what she'll say.
[00:18:00]  At the same time, I received a lot of love.
[00:18:02]  Is she there?
[00:18:03]  Caitlin, are you there?
[00:18:04]  I am here.
[00:18:06]  Hi, Megan.
[00:18:06]  What's the truth?
[00:18:07]  What's the truth, lady?
[00:18:08]  Hi, good to hear you.
[00:18:09]  Oh, no, I just think that sometimes it's hard for people when they see lots of good things happening to other people and maybe not them.
[00:18:17]  It's hard for them to celebrate with you.
[00:18:20]  So I think for John, there's a lot of great things that had happened to him.
[00:18:25]  Even, you know, this was before we met and maybe some people saw that as competition, I guess.
[00:18:31]  That's what I've tried to tell him.
[00:18:33]  Because even when you go into the priesthood, you're still a human being.
[00:18:36]  And you have all the same positive and negative attributes of being a human being as anybody else.
[00:18:41]  And jealousy is one of them.
[00:18:43]  Yes, yes.
[00:18:45]  It's a green eyed monster.
[00:18:47]  There were so many people who supported me, including Cardinal Timothy Dolan, whom you know, and who encouraged me to continue doing the media.
[00:18:59]  And I hope I did it with an honest desire to just communicate what I believed and I still believe about God and about purpose in life and about all of those things.

=== Hiding from Fans (14:20) ===

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[00:20:42]  Cardinal Dolan is a stand-up guy.
[00:20:44]  I love him.
[00:20:44]  And just so our listeners know, he's so sweet.
[00:20:47]  I've met him a few times.
[00:20:49]  I've interviewed him a couple of times.
[00:20:50]  And after my acrimonious departure from NBC, he wrote me the nicest handwritten letter.
[00:20:58]  And I mean, as a Catholic, when you get a note like that from Cardinal Dolan, it's like, Oh my God.
[00:21:03]  Except there was no return address on there.
[00:21:07]  And I was like, I has really struggled to figure out how to thank him.
[00:21:12]  And it's not like, dear Santa, North Pole.
[00:21:15]  You know, you can't just say like, Cardinal Dolan, St. Pat's.
[00:21:19]  Anyway, he's a stand-up guy.
[00:21:22]  And Jonathan, I want the audience to know you too.
[00:21:24]  Not only did you baptize all three of my kids and Janice Dean's kids, but there was a very tumultuous time in my life when I was in Cleveland, Ohio. for the Republican National Convention when Trump got the nomination.
[00:21:40]  And it was the same day that somebody leaked my name to the Drudge Report as cooperating with the investigation into Roger Ailes.
[00:21:53]  Previously, I just hadn't said anything publicly and people knew there was pressure on me to say something.
[00:21:58]  They wanted me to say something in his defense, but I wouldn't.
[00:22:01]  But people didn't know that I was actually somebody who was coming forward against him behind the scenes.
[00:22:05]  And it got leaked to the Drudge Report.
[00:22:07]  And it was a big, big news story.
[00:22:09]  And it was certainly a huge news story at FOX and I was hauled up in my hotel room, not talking to anyone.
[00:22:17]  I was afraid I felt like a caged animal in there because now I had no allies, I didn't know who had fought.
[00:22:24]  I mean, Fox was very divided at the time over this and you know, Janice knew my story but nobody else knew the story and it was just very scary and I got a knock on my door and it was you and you came in.
[00:22:36]  You held my hand, we prayed.
[00:22:40]  You weren't looking for anything other than to be supportive.
[00:22:43]  And I will never forget that moment.
[00:22:46]  You just held my hand and we prayed.
[00:22:47]  It was the only thing that made me feel better.
[00:22:50]  Megan, let me do a little revisionist history here, but I think it's actually true.
[00:22:56]  So I did not knock on your door.
[00:22:59]  Okay, that would have been very creepy.
[00:23:01]  And you would not have answered your door.
[00:23:04]  I didn't mean it as a surprise.
[00:23:07]  So it was, so.
[00:23:10]  We texted, and let me tell you from my perspective.
[00:23:14]  So, imagine this.
[00:23:15]  So, we were texting, and we didn't share anything about what you were going through.
[00:23:20]  I knew what you were going through, and et cetera.
[00:23:23]  And I just wanted to know that I was there for you as a friend and as a priest.
[00:23:29]  And so, we agreed to meet, right?
[00:23:33]  And you said, Don't the only place I can't even get out of my room.
[00:23:36]  Like you said, you felt like a cage-shaped animal.
[00:23:38]  Like, I can't come out.
[00:23:39]  So, the only place to meet is here.
[00:23:41]  And here I am thinking, The audience can try to picture this.
[00:23:45]  So here, Megyn Kelly is now big time in the news in a story that has to do with sex, it has to do with abuse, it has to do with all sorts of stuff.
[00:23:56]  And here, a priest.
[00:24:00]  Is going up to her bedroom in a hotel.
[00:24:05]  Okay.
[00:24:05]  So this is what's going through my mind.
[00:24:07]  I'm going, okay, you want me to meet you there?
[00:24:09]  Okay.
[00:24:09]  Should I go?
[00:24:10]  So here are my two choices, Megan.
[00:24:13]  I never told you this.
[00:24:14]  I'm telling you this for the first time.
[00:24:16]  Do I like it?
[00:24:18]  I think this is August, right?
[00:24:20]  So I'm like, how do I go up and wrap my, like, cover up my collar so that nobody knows that it's a priest going up to your hotel room?
[00:24:30]  And I think, no, that might be worse.
[00:24:34]  Right.
[00:24:34]  So they might like recognize me and I'm like hiding.
[00:24:37]  And so, like, some something's going to be like released, in which a video of me going up hiding my car.
[00:24:45]  So, I just decided to go up, just you know, making a pastoral visit, and all went well.
[00:24:55]  But you were a trooper there, Megan.
[00:24:57]  And I think you tried to live honestly and truthfully, and it all worked out.
[00:25:04]  Well, thank you.
[00:25:05]  I mean, I've said before, and it's true, that I think the same ethical compass that led me to make the decisions I made there and throughout the rest of my life were in large part thanks to the Catholic Church.
[00:25:17]  I mean, I'm not a particularly religious person.
[00:25:20]  I'm not very good about going to church on Sundays, but the imprint that was made on me from going every Sunday and going through all of the sacraments, you know, that I have and just religious education with my mom, you know, that my mom put me in, it mattered.
[00:25:37]  It made a difference in my life.
[00:25:38]  So, even if you don't wind up, you know, particularly observant, I do think it's a worthwhile exercise because that ethical imprint winds up mattering in life.
[00:25:49]  Absolutely true.
[00:25:50]  But, Megan, think about your kids, though.
[00:25:52]  This is like, I'm just good.
[00:25:53]  This is like hard.
[00:25:54]  This is hard podcast stuff.
[00:25:56]  You have to put that imprint on them, right?
[00:25:59]  So, somehow an imprint was made on you, right?
[00:26:03]  Because of going every Sunday or whatever.
[00:26:05]  And I think there's different ways.
[00:26:07]  And I'm trying to figure this out myself.
[00:26:09]  It's much easier for me to go to mass than Sunday, every Sunday as a Priest, now I have to make a decision to do it when nobody is expecting me to show up.
[00:26:17]  Aha, welcome to our world.
[00:26:18]  Yes, it's different.
[00:26:21]  Oh, and like sitting through boring homilies and like bad music.
[00:26:26]  Oh my gosh, he's crossed over.
[00:26:28]  He's on our team now.
[00:26:30]  Yes, you've got to be armchair quarterbacking.
[00:26:33]  Are you not?
[00:26:33]  You're like, pick it up for the love of right now.
[00:26:36]  Oh, oh, it's it's rough, especially my wonderful wife who we'll talk to in a minute is grew up evangelical and like they have great music.
[00:26:47]  And they have great preaching.
[00:26:48]  And so I'm trying to explain to her, Caitlin, I love, I mean, what I'm going here not because of that, but because of the sacraments and because I, you know, I believe God is present in a special way.
[00:26:59]  And she's like, but the music is really bad and this guy can't talk.
[00:27:04]  Caitlin, is there any chance you're going to convert him to evangelical?
[00:27:09]  Well, he did go with me to my mom's church, an evangelical church in Pennsylvania that has like a rock band and there's, You know, PowerPoint presentation, and there's props and everything, and you get coffee before you walk in for service and you mingle.
[00:27:26]  And John's like, What is this?
[00:27:28]  He's so confused, but he was trying so hard to sing along.
[00:27:31]  And it was, it was, yeah, it made my mom very happy.
[00:27:34]  He got major points there with my mom that Sunday because he went to church.
[00:27:37]  That would be such a huge twist to this story.
[00:27:39]  I mean, like, I'm sort of rooting for it.
[00:27:44]  Okay.
[00:27:45]  So, so back to you and your struggle.
[00:27:48]  So, you get to some point in the In your time as a priest, where it must have occurred to you like the bird saying, I'm not sure this is for me.
[00:27:59]  How long into your tenure as a priest was that?
[00:28:02]  I would say almost right from the beginning, Megan, as sad as that sounds.
[00:28:09]  And it's not all sad.
[00:28:13]  Keep in mind that I did join that religious order that turned out to be a cult.
[00:28:18]  So there were things that were not right.
[00:28:20]  It was super strict, super rigid, very kind of top down control, very little personal freedom.
[00:28:30]  And so At some level, even though I was very young and very idealistic and noble, and that's why I wanted to do like hard things, difficult things, including celibacy and be a part of like this most strict order, something I knew wasn't right.
[00:28:49]  But I had gone in so deeply, I think, culturally, socially, and then I became a more and more public figure.
[00:28:58]  They made me a superior, they call it, in the religious order.
[00:29:02]  So I was like leading other guys, and then I started working.
[00:29:06]  I worked with Mel Gibson and Jim Kaviesel and the film of The Passion of the Christ, and it became kind of public through that, and then with CNN and Fox and all this stuff.
[00:29:16]  And so I felt, and this is, I think, a human experience, not just mine.
[00:29:22]  It's, I don't want to let people down.
[00:29:28]  I don't want to let the people's expectations of me down, especially because I saw.
[00:29:36]  That I was doing some good.
[00:29:39]  And this is the conflict, right?
[00:29:42]  I'm doing some good, and yet it doesn't feel right for me.
[00:29:49]  There's another layer of it.
[00:29:51]  Whenever you're going to leave a profession that you've been attached to for a long time, I think it's hard because your identity gets wrapped up in said profession, even if it's not something where you're doing a ton of good, like lawyering.
[00:30:03]  But so that's there.
[00:30:04]  But with you, it is an extra layer because.
[00:30:06]  People have this special relationship with their priest or their minister or their rabbi.
[00:30:12]  You're up on a pedestal.
[00:30:13]  You know, they look up to you, they rely on you for life advice and religious guidance.
[00:30:19]  And I think the pressure must have been especially immense on you not to leave that post and, in essence, put yourself first, you know, which is what most people do their whole lives, but a priest, maybe not.
[00:30:32]  Yeah.
[00:30:32]  And I think there was some, oh, you said it exactly right, Megan, no doubt.
[00:30:37]  Being put up on a pedestal, all of that.
[00:30:40]  And some of it, I think, is just really wrong.
[00:30:43]  And the church needs to go through major conversion and transformation from it.
[00:30:47]  Some of it was my own fault for allowing myself to actually believe that that was true and that I was special.
[00:30:56]  And I think I'm special because I'm an individual created by God out of love, but not because I had a certain position or even that I was ordained.
[00:31:07]  I was different, but not special, so to speak.
[00:31:10]  But I found.
[00:31:11]  That, and maybe we can talk about this later in my new work that I'm doing now professionally as an executive coach and working in leadership development.
[00:31:22]  A kind of a solution to that of that quandary, right?
[00:31:26]  Of wanting to do good, but at the same time, recognizing that I have to take care of myself.
[00:31:32]  And I believe deeply that if I'm flourishing as a human being, I am glorifying God.
[00:31:38]  If that makes sense, right?
[00:31:40]  If I'm flourishing as a human being, I am glorifying God.
[00:31:44]  Yeah.
[00:31:44]  Well, I mean, I think.
[00:31:47]  Most of us on the outside feel that.
[00:31:50]  And I just think there's so much pressure on someone like you who makes a noble choice to serve God in a special way to just always do it in that way.
[00:31:58]  So I'm.
[00:31:59]  I'm happy for you as I was when you told me you were leaving, that you recognized you needed something else and were brave enough to act on it.
[00:32:07]  I'm sure not everyone in the priesthood felt the same.
[00:32:14]  Did you hear from any of them?
[00:32:16]  Did anybody give you a hard time?
[00:32:18]  Yeah, some did.
[00:32:19]  Some people cut me off.
[00:32:22]  Some people wrote articles about me as if I was like, and trust me, I know that you've experienced this.
[00:32:30]  10 times of what I have.
[00:32:33]  People wrote articles about me as if they never knew me or as if I were not a real person that just commented on you like you were some sort of object in the room that had no feelings and no sentiments and never even tried to reach out to me to understand or anything.
[00:32:52]  But that's part of the price you paid for being in the public.
[00:32:56]  So I get it.
[00:32:58]  I always, it took me years to realize this, but I did come to the point of realizing there is.
[00:33:05]  In my case, there's Megan Kelly, the me, and then there's Megan Kelly, the brand, which is totally fair game for criticism.
[00:33:14]  And whenever I read stuff about myself I don't like, I have to remind myself that's the brand that I've put out there.
[00:33:21]  Not everyone knows or cares to know my heart and who I really am.
[00:33:24]  So you can't take it as though they do, right?
[00:33:27]  You just got to remember that that's FJ, the brand.
[00:33:31]  They don't really know anything about you, right?
[00:33:33]  The people who did were rooting for you.

=== Taking a Sabbatical (06:46) ===

[00:33:35]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:33:37]  So, did you have to tell Cardinal Dolan?
[00:33:40]  You know, I mean, I know he gave you like a little time to think about it, but did you have to walk in there one day and say, CD, I'm out of here.
[00:33:49]  Peace out.
[00:33:50]  I did.
[00:33:50]  I did.
[00:33:51]  It got to the point, it was probably two o'clock in the morning when I sent him the email because I wanted to put it all on paper before I talked to him because I didn't want to be convinced otherwise.
[00:34:04]  Right.
[00:34:05]  And so I put it all down, I spent time thinking about it.
[00:34:09]  But it was two in the morning.
[00:34:10]  And then I took that same email that I sent to him and I forwarded it to all of my siblings, not to my mom and dad, because I didn't want to put them in their grave.
[00:34:24]  But I sent it to all of my siblings and said, This is what I'm going to do.
[00:34:31]  And I basically asked for a sabbatical.
[00:34:33]  And I told him my whole story, I told him what was going on in my life.
[00:34:40]  And it was a shock to him.
[00:34:42]  Because I was very close to him and he had given me a lot of responsibility.
[00:34:46]  I was running two parishes in the Bronx at the time.
[00:34:48]  I was overseeing, as co chairman of 14 schools in the Bronx, I was doing a lot and it was hard, but he was so good to me.
[00:35:02]  He said, Jonathan, I think I have a person who could fill in for you.
[00:35:07]  Don't wait until next month or two months from now to take the sabbatical.
[00:35:12]  Leave this weekend.
[00:35:13]  And I did.
[00:35:14]  Wow.
[00:35:15]  He wasn't disappointed at all in you?
[00:35:18]  He was.
[00:35:19]  But I got to the point that I was okay with people being disappointed.
[00:35:24]  But people's not the same as, wait, Carnal Dollett.
[00:35:27]  I mean, that must have been hard.
[00:35:31]  Yeah, but it's still other people's expectations.
[00:35:36]  Right.
[00:35:36]  And that's the point, I think.
[00:35:39]  And they can have different, like, my mom's expectations are higher than.
[00:35:45]  Your expectations of me.
[00:35:46]  I could deal with Megyn Kelly's expectations of me, even though that wasn't hard either.
[00:35:51]  I baptized your three kids.
[00:35:53]  That's right.
[00:35:54]  By the way, I do want to know if that's still legitimate.
[00:35:57]  Yeah, I do.
[00:35:57]  I just want to make perfectly sure.
[00:35:59]  We're still good.
[00:36:00]  It is.
[00:36:01]  It is.
[00:36:04]  So I had to deal with all of that, right?
[00:36:06]  And the priests who I was living with and leading, the two parishes, everyone on Fox News, the management at Fox, all the people who listened to or read my books, and then Cardinal Dolan.
[00:36:25]  But I'm not saying, I'm just saying everybody has that in their life.
[00:36:30]  Right?
[00:36:31]  The expectations of your spouse, the expectations of your children, the expectations of your boss.
[00:36:39]  So, who is the toughest one to tell?
[00:36:41]  Cardinal Dolan, I would say.
[00:36:44]  More than your parents?
[00:36:45]  Yeah.
[00:36:46]  Yeah.
[00:36:46]  So they came around to it.
[00:36:49]  Yeah, because in the end, parents, think about your kids, Megan, right?
[00:36:54]  No matter what they tell you, like they're your kids.
[00:36:58]  Yeah.
[00:36:58]  Right?
[00:36:58]  Cardinal Dolan, you know, was my boss and a friend, but a boss.
[00:37:03]  Yeah.
[00:37:04]  And you were on the inner circle.
[00:37:05]  I mean, he had really taken you in and promoted you and believed in you.
[00:37:10]  So it's even tougher there.
[00:37:12]  But, you know, what everybody wants to know is because you've said publicly, this is how you put it in your letter that you released in May of 2019.
[00:37:21]  I've struggled for years with my vocation and with the commitments that the Catholic priesthood demands, especially not being able to marry and have a family.
[00:37:30]  In response to which everyone said, even though you said my decision is not about an existing relationship, but everybody was like, he's got a girlfriend.
[00:37:37]  Or a boyfriend.
[00:37:38]  None of us knew.
[00:37:39]  I mean, we know.
[00:37:40]  How would we know?
[00:37:41]  But that's what everybody thought that you had started a relationship and that's why you were leaving.
[00:37:46]  But was that true?
[00:37:48]  No.
[00:37:48]  Oh, it was true.
[00:37:51]  I mean, it was true what I wrote.
[00:37:52]  I did not have a relationship that I was pursuing in any way or that I was hoping to continue in any way.
[00:38:01]  That was absolutely true.
[00:38:03]  You didn't have like even a dalliance before?
[00:38:07]  No, I mentioned very publicly too, you know, and I told this to Cardinal Dolan, and I mentioned this with Martha McCollum's show.
[00:38:18]  You know, I said, part of the manipulation by the religious order that I was a part of is at one point, even before I was ordained, I did have, as you say, a parlance or a relationship with someone that was fleeting.
[00:38:36]  And I went and I said, I do not want to be ordained a priest.
[00:38:40]  This is not for me.
[00:38:41]  This is not.
[00:38:43]  And they, instead of saying, okay, they're like, no, that's okay.
[00:38:49]  Don't worry about it.
[00:38:50]  That never happened.
[00:38:51]  And they promoted me two years ahead and they made me a superior of the order.
[00:38:56]  It just shows the manipulation that was there.
[00:38:59]  So, yes, I struggled.
[00:39:01]  And I put that out, I think publicly.
[00:39:04]  I didn't do this general confession, which I don't think is helpful or necessary by anyone.
[00:39:10]  No, but that was 20 years earlier and you weren't officially ordained.
[00:39:15]  I was thinking, like, When you were getting ready to jump off the diving board and say, okay, I'm out of here, there wasn't like, I just feel like there would be like, maybe I'll just try it first before I take this big leap.
[00:39:28]  That didn't happen.
[00:39:29]  Yeah, no, Kaylin will be brought in soon, I'm sure.
[00:39:34]  But we had no, you know, when I left and I asked for the sabbatical, I was 100% and totally free to still consider coming back.
[00:39:45]  And Cardinal Dolan was encouraging me to come back.
[00:39:48]  And he just basically said, take it slowly.
[00:39:51]  Take it slowly.
[00:39:52]  And I did, but as soon as I left, I basically knew deep down this is something that is.
[00:39:59]  If Pope Francis gives me a dispensation, I'm going to take it.
[00:40:03]  But I took time.
[00:40:04]  I took four months and went back, lived with my parents.
[00:40:08]  Imagine at the age of 46 years old going back and living with your parents and not knowing what you're going to do for a job, for anything.
[00:40:16]  And also, you had to be a little afraid, I mean, that you weren't going to have any moves with the ladies, right?

=== Living with Parents (02:49) ===

[00:40:21]  Did you worry about that at all?
[00:40:23]  Like, am I going to be smooth?
[00:40:25]  Oh, no, I didn't worry about that in the sense that I. Listen, not because I was a father.
[00:40:32]  Father, one of ways, no worries.
[00:40:34]  No, it's not that.
[00:40:35]  But I knew that, I mean, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't 23.
[00:40:40]  I was, I recognized that this was a serious thing.
[00:40:44]  That I also saw so many marriages struggle.
[00:40:48]  I knew it wasn't like I was leaving the priesthood for some fairy tale.
[00:40:53]  I knew that it wasn't easy.
[00:40:54]  I knew that dating was, especially at my age, what am I going to do?
[00:40:58]  Either, Date somebody who is divorced and remarried, or somebody who's 22, or somebody who's 58 and who's never been married, or Caitlin, who was perfect.
[00:41:12]  And I didn't know if I would find that person, but I did.
[00:41:17]  All right, more with Father Jonathan.
[00:41:18]  I mean, Jonathan and Caitlin in just one second.
[00:41:21]  And this is the segment of the interview where I'm going to ask them all the inappropriate, awkward questions that you know you want answered, and it will deliver.
[00:41:31]  But first, before we get to that, let's talk about Jammarini Skin Research.
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[00:43:05]  Okay, before we get back to our guests, I want to bring you a segment we call Real Talk here on The Megyn Kelly Show.

=== Jan Marini Skincare (15:26) ===

[00:43:11]  And that's where we're just talking about anything that we think is interesting.
[00:43:13]  Well, listen, it being Christmas, I wanted to tell you about two Christmas movies that I never miss.
[00:43:19]  And in case you haven't seen them, one of them you have, one of them you might not.
[00:43:23]  You still have time, right?
[00:43:25]  Because we've got today to just loaf around and watch movies and maybe a little football, but just take it easy.
[00:43:30]  Okay, one is It's a Wonderful Life, and you've seen that, but you may not have seen it the way we watch it.
[00:43:36]  My family and I treat this movie as the Rocky Horror Picture Show.
[00:43:40]  We all get our Santa's hats on.
[00:43:43]  We get bells.
[00:43:44]  Everybody has bells.
[00:43:46]  We get salt.
[00:43:47]  We get bread and we get ready.
[00:43:49]  And we sit in front of it.
[00:43:50]  And whenever Clarence comes on, we ring our bells.
[00:43:55]  Whenever George does, or his friend Sam Ray, Whatever his name is, does his hee haw, we do it.
[00:44:02]  Whenever Mr. Potter comes on, we hiss.
[00:44:05]  And then when Mr. Marini has the new house, we throw salt and bread.
[00:44:12]  And it's super fun.
[00:44:13]  It's just like a fun way of enjoying a classic movie and getting your kids into George Bailey and his life, because who doesn't love that movie?
[00:44:22]  Although on the young ones, it's a little long and, you know, this will make them love it.
[00:44:25]  It's just super fun.
[00:44:26]  And my second suggestion to you is Christmas in.
[00:44:30]  Connecticut.
[00:44:31]  So Christmas in Connecticut is a 1947, I think, Barbara Stanwyck film where Barbara Stanwyck was young and it's black and white and it's one of her lesser known films, but it's this classic holiday film that will make you feel like you've done a little time travel.
[00:44:46]  They've got the horse drawn carriages in the snowy meadow and the way she dresses is so beautiful and elegant and the farm that she's allegedly at in Connecticut over the holidays is perfection, and you could watch the whole thing with the sound down frankly, because it's really just the visuals of the movie that I don't know, just make you feel incredibly good, especially on christmas day.
[00:45:11]  So I never miss putting that on and I hope if you do it, you enjoy it too.
[00:45:15]  Back to Jonathan and Kaitlyn.
[00:45:20]  that's the perfect uh point at which to bring in your now beautiful wife kaitlyn's as you know still he she's with us and so kaitlyn welcome back just so the audience knows you're from harrisburg pennsylvania you went to nyu majored In journalism, and were at the time you met FFJ, and now are a successful producer and booker at Good Morning America.
[00:45:44]  You work for ABC News.
[00:45:45]  Yes, I work at ABC in the investigative unit now.
[00:45:48]  But when I met John, I worked at Good Morning America.
[00:45:52]  And when Pope Benedict resigned, and they flew like 20, 30 people over from New York to cover this, and I was one of them.
[00:46:02]  And so we were all in Rome for weeks covering the conclave.
[00:46:06]  That was 2013, right?
[00:46:07]  2013.
[00:46:09]  Yes.
[00:46:10]  So, you met him first in Rome?
[00:46:12]  Yeah.
[00:46:13]  Now, do you remember having any sort of reaction to him when you met him first?
[00:46:17]  No, I just think, like, you know, he was there was, I've never seen so many priests in my entire life.
[00:46:22]  Like, running around Rome, everyone was a priest.
[00:46:25]  And growing up evangelical, I just, you don't like go out and drink wine with your pastor.
[00:46:30]  So, it was just like a whole different kind of world over there.
[00:46:33]  But I met him when I was trying to book all the cardinals on all the morning shows, right?
[00:46:40]  So, that was always the competition, and everybody wanted Cardinal Dolan on.
[00:46:43]  And so I would, that was one of the people I would go to saying, Can we please have an interview with him tomorrow morning with George Stephanopoulos or one of our anchors?
[00:46:52]  So that's how I first was introduced to then Father Jonathan.
[00:46:57]  Is it funny for you now, looking back at those moments where you were soliciting him as a booker, to think, you know, if somebody could have tapped you on the shoulder and told you, you're going to wind up married to him?
[00:47:07]  Can you imagine?
[00:47:09]  I know.
[00:47:09]  It's so crazy, Megan.
[00:47:11]  This whole life I'm living is just, it is almost too good to be true.
[00:47:15]  I say that to John all the time, but.
[00:47:18]  I feel so blessed.
[00:47:19]  Like every day I wake up so happy.
[00:47:21]  I know there's a lot of heartache right now with what's happening in 2020 and the pandemic, but we have managed to find such joy and happiness in our family.
[00:47:31]  And it's so much rooted in him and what he's brought into my life.
[00:47:35]  So, yeah, it is so crazy.
[00:47:37]  No, someone had told me that seven years ago.
[00:47:40]  I would have laughed.
[00:47:41]  I'm feeling it just listening to you because what I'm picturing is the couple I saw walking on air.
[00:47:47]  at your wedding so i can feel it even even though we can't see each other all right so have you ever seen the thornbirds you know no you asked me that at the reception and i was like i haven't seen that but i've seen fleabag And so we've watched that together, but I haven't seen the Thornbirds.
[00:48:06]  You still have not watched it.
[00:48:07]  I mean, you, now listen, he never left the priesthood.
[00:48:11]  I'm sorry, spoiler.
[00:48:12]  But you're like the Meggie to his father, Ralph.
[00:48:17]  Every woman in America, when they watched Thornbirds, was totally rooting for him to leave the priesthood and be with his girl.
[00:48:24]  Okay, so no Thornbirds.
[00:48:26]  No Thornbirds.
[00:48:27]  Okay.
[00:48:28]  No.
[00:48:28]  So the next time you saw him was when?
[00:48:32]  After 2013.
[00:48:35]  So he asked me on a date.
[00:48:37]  We went out on a date on my birthday.
[00:48:38]  This is after he had made the announcement.
[00:48:40]  He left and he did his interview on Fox.
[00:48:43]  And then I heard from him and he asked me out to lunch.
[00:48:47]  Which is like out of the blue, you heard from him?
[00:48:49]  Out of the blue?
[00:48:49]  Like you saw that on Fox?
[00:48:50]  Yeah, he found.
[00:48:51]  Well, so I had, so when he made his announcement in May, he had at the bottom of it, you know, for members of the media, you can reach me at this email address.
[00:49:01]  I won't be responding, but, you know, this is, he was trying to traffic it ahead of time, right?
[00:49:05]  And so I, Because I'm a booker at heart, let's be honest.
[00:49:08]  I was like, okay, I'll reach out to him.
[00:49:10]  Dear father Jonathan, you probably don't remember me, but I met you in Rome and I just wanted to say congratulations on your next steps and we're all cheering for you.
[00:49:19]  Best wishes, Caitlin Fulmer.
[00:49:22]  But was that as a booker?
[00:49:23]  Was that like genuinely wishing him goodwill or was that like, well, he's free now?
[00:49:26]  I'm wishing him goodwill.
[00:49:27]  I'm sorry.
[00:49:28]  I mean, and listen, I spent all my life single.
[00:49:31]  I was going to probably be destined to be a news nun, basically, you know, working in.
[00:49:36]  I know, I knew you would get that reference.
[00:49:38]  I was like, don't.
[00:49:39]  Say that no one will understand that, but but I was like, I was just jumping on planes and traveling, and that was my life and that was my love.
[00:49:46]  And so, yeah, when I sent that, I mean, I'm not gonna lie and say, okay, I was just doing it to try to book him on the view or something.
[00:49:53]  No, I was just genuinely interested too in hearing what his next steps were.
[00:49:56]  Because when I read that too, I thought, oh, that's interesting.
[00:49:58]  I wonder what's the real deal here.
[00:50:01]  Where is he going?
[00:50:01]  And it turns out he really did just want something new and he followed it and he had the guts to do it.
[00:50:07]  And so, um, it was exciting.
[00:50:09]  Then I got to meet him.
[00:50:10]  And have one.
[00:50:10]  So, so, wait, so how did he respond to that email or what did he do?
[00:50:15]  No, he didn't.
[00:50:16]  He did not respond.
[00:50:17]  So I was like, okay, that's fine.
[00:50:19]  I'm sure he's getting a thousand emails.
[00:50:21]  You're like, no, it's no problem.
[00:50:22]  He's going to hell anyway.
[00:50:23]  So it's really not a good thing.
[00:50:24]  So, so, but, so, but I was in, he found me on Twitter.
[00:50:30]  That's what it was.
[00:50:31]  So I guess like maybe a week after I sent that email, I get a direct message, a DM in my inbox.
[00:50:38]  He slid into my DM and his line was, he was like, hey, Jonathan Moore is here.
[00:50:45]  I don't know if you saw the news.
[00:50:46]  I just left the priesthood.
[00:50:48]  I'm so happy.
[00:50:49]  How are you?
[00:50:50]  And so I think I have it memorized because I've shared it with my girlfriend so many times.
[00:50:54]  John, honey, you're oddly quiet right now.
[00:50:58]  So, anyhow, we.
[00:51:00]  I learned to let my wife speak.
[00:51:03]  This is spectacular.
[00:51:06]  So, I just left the priesthood.
[00:51:09]  Yeah.
[00:51:09]  Did he say anything like, you know, I've got the blessing of Cardinal Doe?
[00:51:13]  Like, did he say anything like we're going to be good with the big guy up above?
[00:51:16]  No, it was pretty.
[00:51:17]  It was like three lines.
[00:51:18]  He was straight to the voice.
[00:51:19]  Like, I look at the priesthood.
[00:51:21]  I'm so happy.
[00:51:22]  How are you?
[00:51:22]  And I was like, Oh my goodness.
[00:51:25]  And so, my initial response is, Okay, I sent you an email and you didn't read it.
[00:51:29]  So, that was my response.
[00:51:30]  He's like, Oh, actually, this is the email.
[00:51:33]  You should send it to this one.
[00:51:34]  So, he has like a secret email account.
[00:51:35]  So, then I sent it to that.
[00:51:37]  And then that's what started the whole, Oh, let's grab lunch.
[00:51:40]  And so, that's what happened.
[00:51:41]  He took me out.
[00:51:42]  Wait a minute.
[00:51:42]  Wait a minute.
[00:51:43]  Let's back up.
[00:51:43]  Wait.
[00:51:44]  Let's back up.
[00:51:44]  Okay.
[00:51:45]  Jonathan, have you received that email?
[00:51:47]  Did you see that email that Caitlin sent you?
[00:51:50]  No, no, I did not.
[00:51:52]  And honestly, in two days, I think I received over 25,000 emails from the craziest people.
[00:51:59]  And then there were normal people like Caitlin.
[00:52:02]  Who sent me emails, most of whom were just reacting in a very, very gracious way about my decision.
[00:52:09]  But no, I did not see that email.
[00:52:12]  I did not ask her out.
[00:52:13]  It was not a date.
[00:52:14]  I was asking her to lunch.
[00:52:17]  Okay.
[00:52:18]  Those of us in the real world know what you were asking for.
[00:52:20]  We know it was a date.
[00:52:22]  Don't try to fool us.
[00:52:23]  Do not try to fool us.
[00:52:24]  Wait a minute.
[00:52:25]  Are you telling me, without having seen her email, you just spontaneously reached out to her?
[00:52:31]  I mean, you know, somebody might call that divine intervention.
[00:52:35]  I mean, it's amazing.
[00:52:37]  Providence, Providence.
[00:52:38]  Yeah.
[00:52:38]  I mean, he didn't even know.
[00:52:40]  I could have been married with 10 kids living in Connecticut with a picket fence.
[00:52:43]  He had no idea.
[00:52:44]  I haven't seen him in seven years or six years since then.
[00:52:47]  So, I mean, but I guess it kind of assumed that.
[00:52:51]  All right, back to you, Caitlin.
[00:52:52]  Back to you.
[00:52:53]  So every single friend must have been like, holy, right?
[00:52:57]  Like, I can't, I do swear, but I can't do it in front of a friend.
[00:53:00]  So I know I actually thought that too.
[00:53:02]  I shouldn't do that.
[00:53:02]  But I know what you're going to say.
[00:53:03]  Yeah.
[00:53:04]  They totally thought the same thing.
[00:53:06]  This is perfect.
[00:53:07]  So, yeah.
[00:53:08]  Were they excited?
[00:53:10]  Yeah, because it's like a great looking, he was what, 46 at the time?
[00:53:14]  He's 47, so 46.
[00:53:16]  So, a great looking, never before married, 46 year old, ethical, moral, upstanding member of the community who's got, you know, outside of being a priest, great jobs.
[00:53:26]  Basically, emails you and is like, hey, let's go out.
[00:53:28]  I mean, this is every unmarried 36 year old woman's dream.
[00:53:31]  On my birthday.
[00:53:32]  Oh my God.
[00:53:32]  He took me out.
[00:53:33]  On my birthday.
[00:53:34]  I know.
[00:53:34]  Isn't that crazy?
[00:53:35]  So, yeah, it is.
[00:53:37]  Again, it's so.
[00:53:38]  It is a fairy tale.
[00:53:39]  My mom used to, she was like a couple years before, you know, I met John.
[00:53:42]  She was like, I really think you have this idea of a fairy tale.
[00:53:45]  I'm not sure it's going to come true.
[00:53:46]  I just don't want you to be disappointed.
[00:53:48]  Well, she's now come full circle and said, I'm glad you never stopped believing because they really do come true in the form of Jonathan.
[00:53:55]  So it was a business lunch.
[00:53:57]  Yeah.
[00:53:58]  Okay.
[00:53:58]  Lizzie's still going with that.
[00:53:59]  Okay.
[00:54:00]  We've moved past that.
[00:54:01]  Okay.
[00:54:02]  Here's the most important thing after the lunch, I did not hear from him for about four weeks or three weeks.
[00:54:09]  He just didn't even follow up.
[00:54:11]  Yeah.
[00:54:12]  So I thought, oh, he just, he really isn't interested.
[00:54:14]  He probably is, you know, and he shouldn't, he should go.
[00:54:16]  And I thought, he should go out and date.
[00:54:18]  You know, he's, he's got, he's been in the priesthood for so long.
[00:54:21]  Like, go out, he's got some, got some oats to sow.
[00:54:24]  Exactly.
[00:54:25]  That's a way to put it.
[00:54:26]  But yeah, I did not hear from him for many weeks.
[00:54:29]  So were you thinking, okay, Cardinal Dolan won?
[00:54:32]  Like, are you thinking, what were you thinking?
[00:54:35]  No, because he had already done his interview and he was going for it.
[00:54:38]  I just figured he was probably busy.
[00:54:40]  He wasn't interested.
[00:54:41]  I don't know.
[00:54:42]  And thank, you know, this is where your girlfriend steps in and they say, Do not write to him.
[00:54:45]  Like, no.
[00:54:47]  If a guy likes, it's like that movie, you know, I forget what it is, but it's like if a guy wants to be with you, he will make it known.
[00:54:53]  And so he will make it happen.
[00:54:54]  So I didn't text him.
[00:54:56]  And then the next time I got a text from him, it was I was like, I was with Jeffrey Epstein's victims in federal court downtown being chased by the paparazzi and all the crazy media.
[00:55:07]  And I get this text message from a new phone number and it's, Hey, John Moore is here.
[00:55:14]  Here's my new phone number.
[00:55:15]  Just wanted to check in or something like that.
[00:55:17]  And so that was how we kind of reconnected after that.
[00:55:20]  But I will say, after he did reach out to me, then there hadn't been, there was never a day that went by where I didn't hear from him.
[00:55:26]  You know, when we were dating, he would always take the time to text or to call or FaceTime and reach out.
[00:55:32]  So it's like he, so I can totally forgive him from those weeks.
[00:55:36]  Yes.
[00:55:37]  And now it's ancient history.
[00:55:38]  So, John, I'm working with it.
[00:55:41]  Tell me this Did you date anyone other than Caitlin in your, you know, time off?
[00:55:47]  I did.
[00:55:48]  Yeah.
[00:55:49]  Nobody.
[00:55:50]  Seriously, I think Caitlin, you know, I've talked to Caitlin about, and she encouraged me actually.
[00:55:56]  She's like, she's like, date, although one time she encouraged me, and then I actually.
[00:56:00]  Took her up on it.
[00:56:01]  This is like right before we started going out seriously.
[00:56:04]  And then she's like, oh, you are not actually supposed to do that.
[00:56:08]  But anyway, that's another.
[00:56:11]  Well, it's hard because no woman really wants a guy she's interested in to be, you know, dating around.
[00:56:17]  But in your case, I don't know.
[00:56:21]  Like, yeah, I'm not sure.
[00:56:22]  Sharon was great about it.
[00:56:23]  She was honestly saying, listen, you, I recognize, you know, that this is a big change in your life.
[00:56:30]  And, um, This is all very fast.
[00:56:34]  And she did encourage me to date other people, and I did.
[00:56:37]  So, you, this is, so I know you had your first dinner on July 21st.
[00:56:41]  I did actually read the New York Times profile on you.
[00:56:44]  I'm feigning ignorance on some of these things.
[00:56:46]  But the New York Times told me this is how it was phrased, and I quote In October, they turned a serious corner.
[00:56:55]  And it was Mr. Morris who suggested they take their relationship to the next level.
[00:57:00]  So, is that when you first slept together?
[00:57:03]  Oh, gosh.
[00:57:05]  Megan?
[00:57:07]  Again, I might not be able to, I can still hear your confession.
[00:57:10]  I just can't do anything about it.
[00:57:12]  But you definitely can't do anything about my confession.
[00:57:15]  So we're just going to leave it at that.
[00:57:17]  This is about your sin, not mine.
[00:57:20]  Finally.
[00:57:22]  All right, let me ask it this way.
[00:57:24]  Let me ask it this way.
[00:57:25]  I know you said you had the girlfriend before you got ordained.
[00:57:28]  There was a girl.
[00:57:28]  So I'm going to assume you went into the relationship.
[00:57:31]  I get where you're going.
[00:57:32]  Yeah, come on.
[00:57:32]  I mean, were you a 46 year old version or not?
[00:57:36]  I was not.
[00:57:38]  Okay, good.
[00:57:38]  All right, good.
[00:57:39]  So you had a move or two.
[00:57:40]  Again, we know each other too well.
[00:57:42]  Like, I mean, like, I know where you're going.
[00:57:46]  This is what everybody wants to know.
[00:57:48]  I mean, it's like, I want to know what it was like for Caitlin, too, because I think I'd be a little scared.
[00:57:53]  Like, there'd be a lot of pressure on me to, like, I don't know, rock his world.
[00:57:58]  How did that feel for you, Caitlin?
[00:58:00]  Not like the specific, but like, what emotions?
[00:58:04]  I'm dying right now because he calls me no filter Kate.
[00:58:08]  He calls me no filter Kate.
[00:58:10]  Because I just say what's on my mind.
[00:58:12]  And so this is like his worst nightmare.
[00:58:14]  But I will be good, babe.
[00:58:15]  And no, I will.
[00:58:16]  Did you know that I know Megan Kelly's husband?
[00:58:19]  He's a great guy named Doug.
[00:58:20]  Excellent.
[00:58:21]  Good friend.
[00:58:23]  Great guy.
[00:58:24]  Excellent.
[00:58:25]  I'm trying to get out of bounds here.
[00:58:27]  Getting out of bounds entirely.
[00:58:29]  Okay.
[00:58:30]  So it went well.
[00:58:31]  Obviously, some test was passed because then you got married.
[00:58:35]  All right.
[00:58:36]  So who proposed to whom?

=== No Filter Kate (12:28) ===

[00:58:37]  He proposed.
[00:58:39]  He surprised me.
[00:58:39]  I was very shocked.
[00:58:41]  How did it happen?
[00:58:44]  He told me that we were out in San Diego.
[00:58:47]  This is like in June.
[00:58:47]  It was right after my birthday.
[00:58:49]  So it was like our one year anniversary of our first date.
[00:58:51]  And he took me, he said, We're going to some dinner.
[00:58:54]  And I was all dressed up and I had done, you know, brushed my hair and put on makeup so I look decent, which was a good thing because Luke can ask me to marry him and I had no idea.
[00:59:03]  I think when we went up to this beautiful mountain, like on a golf course overlooking the San Diego Valley and the ocean.
[00:59:11]  And he, I was like, I was trying to hug him and he backed away.
[00:59:16]  And I was like, what is he doing?
[00:59:18]  And then he got on one knee.
[00:59:20]  And I was like, oh my gosh.
[00:59:22]  And I was like, oh my God.
[00:59:23]  Oh my God.
[00:59:24]  What's happening?
[00:59:24]  And then he asked me.
[00:59:25]  And then I looked at him.
[00:59:26]  I said, are you sure?
[00:59:28]  And then he's like, yes, I'm sure.
[00:59:31]  Of course I am.
[00:59:32]  I said, okay.
[00:59:32]  All right.
[00:59:33]  As long as you're sure, yes, of course I'll marry you.
[00:59:35]  But it took me a good, I think I had to wrap my mind around it for a moment.
[00:59:39]  But it was, aside from my wedding day, the happiest.
[00:59:42]  Day, I couldn't stop smiling, and he had everything prepared.
[00:59:45]  He had a bottle of champagne up there.
[00:59:47]  He had a photographer hiding in the bushes who caught all the photos and the moments.
[00:59:51]  And then he took me to a lovely French dinner afterwards.
[00:59:55]  So it was really a dream.
[00:59:57]  He did a good job.
[00:59:58]  Wow, I had the moves.
[01:00:01]  Well, I mean, that was a good day.
[01:00:03]  I was kind of referring to different moves, but we'll talk later.
[01:00:09]  Maybe off the record, off the record with wine, Megan.
[01:00:12]  That's right.
[01:00:13]  Done.
[01:00:13]  It was still all.
[01:00:17]  So you get married, and it was an amazing, amazing ceremony.
[01:00:21]  You truly were both of you looked like you were on cloud nine.
[01:00:26]  And it happened to be, it was on October 17th at St. Patrick's Cathedral.
[01:00:31]  Of all places.
[01:00:33]  It's a place of honor in the Catholic Church.
[01:00:35]  It's Cardinal Dolan's church, his pad.
[01:00:38]  And he was there.
[01:00:40]  I think that's so beautiful.
[01:00:41]  I mean, honestly, were you so touched because you wound up getting his blessing?
[01:00:46]  Yeah.
[01:00:48]  Just more transparency, I think.
[01:00:52]  I think the day after we got engaged, we called him and we asked him to marry us.
[01:00:58]  He said yes.
[01:00:59]  And he suggested St. Patrick's Cathedral.
[01:01:01]  And I think later there was some pushback.
[01:01:04]  By members of the clergy, probably, like, how could this be celebrated in this way?
[01:01:12]  And so, as it turned out, the rector of the cathedral, a good friend of ours, Monsignor Ritchie, presided at the wedding.
[01:01:18]  But Cardinal Dolan decided to be there as well.
[01:01:22]  And we said, Cardinal Dolan, we understand this is very public.
[01:01:25]  Why don't we go and meet you in the rectory afterwards, which is where he resides?
[01:01:33]  And he said, No, I'll meet you outside the church.
[01:01:37]  We came walking down the aisle right after this ceremony in St. Patrick's Cathedral, down the center aisle, and he was there at the back of the aisle, right at the entrance to the church, waiting for us with his mask on and his arms outstretched.
[01:01:56]  And it was a very moving moment for sure.
[01:02:00]  Colonel Dolan has always reached out to me and made me feel welcome.
[01:02:03]  You know, like when we first started dating, John took me over to his apartment, he hosted us, and we drank martinis in his living room, and he talked.
[01:02:11]  He wanted to know me and get to know me and ask me questions.
[01:02:14]  And he just, I say to him that you are really good for Christianity and for the church because you make being a Christian look attractive and joyful.
[01:02:24]  There's a joy there when you see him.
[01:02:26]  And I said, then that's, you know, that's a good thing for the church.
[01:02:30]  And we always enjoy our time with him.
[01:02:32]  And he has made a point to get to know us as a couple.
[01:02:37]  And that means a lot.
[01:02:38]  And then obviously that was culminated by him being the first to greet us when we were married.
[01:02:44]  So nice.
[01:02:44]  It's got to be good luck.
[01:02:46]  I mean, there's something in there that's, I don't know, redemptive.
[01:02:50]  So now the big question is are we having children?
[01:02:53]  Are children in the future since this was one of your reasons to leave, right?
[01:02:58]  I mean, you've got to be hoping.
[01:02:59]  No, John?
[01:03:01]  We are hoping.
[01:03:02]  And one of the things I loved about Caitlin was that, so I'm 48 now.
[01:03:09]  She's 36, and 37.
[01:03:12]  Sorry, Caitlin.
[01:03:14]  But I was so happy that she, She mentioned she would think about she would be a news nun someday, like just basically be dedicated to the news.
[01:03:23]  She wasn't looking to have children.
[01:03:25]  And that was kind of a relief to me, even though I was certainly hoping to have children or being open to that idea.
[01:03:31]  But she wasn't getting married in order to have a kid.
[01:03:35]  So that gave me great confidence.
[01:03:36]  Another thing that gave me great confidence was this whole terrible epidemic, pandemic that we're going through, and that we were spending much more time together than we.
[01:03:48]  Would have otherwise.
[01:03:49]  And so our relationship really sped up without getting into details, Megan.
[01:03:56]  It really sped up, honestly, because we spent, you know.
[01:04:00]  Three, four months together all the time.
[01:04:03]  And so I was like, you know what?
[01:04:05]  I actually like being with her.
[01:04:07]  And I think hopefully she said the same thing about me.
[01:04:09]  So that's kind of the silver lining in our own relationship.
[01:04:13]  But the answer to your question is yes, we're very open to having children.
[01:04:16]  And we've only been married two months.
[01:04:20]  So stop pressing the issue.
[01:04:22]  But Caitlin was adopted from Korea.
[01:04:27]  And we went last December back to Korea, back for the first time since she had been there since she was three months old.
[01:04:34]  And we went to the very adoption agency where she had been given by her birth mother and where she spent the first days of her life in this little room, where that little room is still there.
[01:04:47]  And it's full of these little babies under three months old who have not even been placed in foster care yet.
[01:04:56]  And Caitlin was able to hold a baby from her town who was there waiting for adoption.
[01:05:04]  So that's also an option.
[01:05:07]  Oh, that would be so beautiful.
[01:05:11]  I feel like there is a reason this happened.
[01:05:13]  Maybe that's it.
[01:05:13]  Maybe it's somebody who's coming in the future.
[01:05:16]  Maybe it's just the love between the two of you, which is such an uplifting force.
[01:05:21]  I've said before, when you marry the right person, it can be such a stabilizing, sound foundation for the rest of your life.
[01:05:29]  I think a lot of people don't realize if you have a great relationship, what an injection of joy it can be into your world.
[01:05:36]  And the opposite is true too, but we'll stay on the positive for now.
[01:05:40]  If you've got it and you nurture it, it can stay nurtured.
[01:05:42]  Doug and I have been together now for, I don't know, we met in 06, right?
[01:05:47]  So we're going on 15 years.
[01:05:49]  And it's awesome.
[01:05:50]  And it doesn't even require that much work, just a little nurturing, just like generous lenses, a little nurturing, and a few other things we'll get into over the wine.
[01:05:59]  Oh, can you tell this story?
[01:06:00]  You guys have to tell this story.
[01:06:02]  It was about you went to church, and I don't know, Jonathan, you were doing something at the church and you were like taking too long.
[01:06:11]  Can you tell this story?
[01:06:12]  Oh, right.
[01:06:13]  The communion, it's Tommy's first communion, honey.
[01:06:17]  Okay, I'll tell the story.
[01:06:18]  You can't say it with a certain, yeah, no, yes, you have to, you must, yes, I insist we can't.
[01:06:24]  I don't think you can do that with the ratings, you can only give your no, no, I have an explicit warning, I have an explicit warning label on my show.
[01:06:31]  You can say whatever you want, Caitlin.
[01:06:33]  I have to ask your permission, you okay?
[01:06:36]  Uh, yes, I'm totally fine.
[01:06:38]  Okay, here we go.
[01:06:40]  Never said this publicly, but um, so yeah, we're.
[01:06:44]  We're at my nephew's first communion, and it's one of Caitlin's first time meeting my family.
[01:06:50]  You can imagine what they're thinking, you know, like, oh, you know, here he is after all these years in the priesthood.
[01:06:56]  Who is she?
[01:06:58]  And so Caitlin grew up evangelical.
[01:07:01]  So in the Catholic Church, if you're not Catholic, when you go up to communion, you don't receive because the idea is if you don't believe the same thing the Catholic Church believes about communion, you shouldn't receive out of kind of intellectual.
[01:07:15]  Integrity, I guess.
[01:07:17]  And so, but what you can do is cross your arms over your chest, and the priest will give a blessing on your forehead.
[01:07:25]  So, Caitlin was very eager to do that.
[01:07:29]  Okay.
[01:07:30]  And later I found out she was very, she knew that she knew how to do it because she had watched it in Rome when she was there covering the conclave for Good Morning America, where we met.
[01:07:41]  So, she, Caitlin, and I are sitting together.
[01:07:44]  She marches out into the aisle.
[01:07:45]  I let her go ahead of me and she heads towards.
[01:07:49]  You know, through the communion line.
[01:07:51]  And as she's now about four feet away from the priest who's giving out communion.
[01:07:57]  And instead of what a normal person.
[01:08:01]  Would do a normal person who knows like how to get the blessing would do, who would go walk right up to the priest, cross the arms and wait for him to get the blessing.
[01:08:10]  She, like, this was like, this wasn't Taco Bell or like, this was like, it was a flyby.
[01:08:16]  She walked right past, crossed her arm, walked right past the priest and he's like looking for her with his arms stretched out, trying to catch her to give the blessing.
[01:08:26]  She has no clue.
[01:08:27]  She comes right back in the aisle and I look.
[01:08:32]  We get back into the pew.
[01:08:33]  My whole family probably saw her do this flyby.
[01:08:37]  And I said, What was that?
[01:08:41]  And she looked at me and she's in these beautiful high heels and this beautiful dress.
[01:08:46]  And she looks at me and she says, You didn't fucking tell me what I was supposed to do.
[01:08:56]  Or something like that.
[01:09:00]  Okay.
[01:09:00]  That's awesome.
[01:09:01]  It's actually a little bit different, but I don't even feel comfortable saying it down there.
[01:09:06]  But you get the message.
[01:09:08]  She's like, I love it.
[01:09:10]  You didn't effing tell me what I was supposed to do, you effing whatever.
[01:09:16]  I'm like, well, what were you marching up there for?
[01:09:19]  Like, you knew what you were doing.
[01:09:20]  But anyway.
[01:09:21]  Meanwhile, FFJ is like, by the way, the wafers taste delicious.
[01:09:30]  You have to rewind to get that part of the story.
[01:09:33]  Yeah, you don't know how good they are, what you're missing.
[01:09:36]  So, oh, we, so by the way, so you, you establish you are, you are not going to convert out of Catholicism, but Caitlin, is there any chance you're going to jump in?
[01:09:44]  I don't know.
[01:09:44]  It's not, I wouldn't completely write it off.
[01:09:46]  I'll think about it.
[01:09:47]  I'll pray about it.
[01:09:49]  When we go to church on Sundays, we go to this great church down here near our neighborhood that has very good music and preaching, good homily.
[01:09:58]  So, yeah, at one point, but John never made that like when we were dating, it was never like a condition of dating or anything that he needed to marry someone Catholic.
[01:10:08]  And he, Like to celebrate my diverse background and where I come from.
[01:10:13]  And so, yeah, so we'll see.
[01:10:16]  Well, correct me if I'm wrong, John, but I thought the rule was you can marry a non Catholic, but the kids need to be Catholic.
[01:10:23]  Yeah.
[01:10:24]  And Caitlin signed off on that basically that the non Catholic partners agree to or like recognize the fact that the Catholic partner has promised to raise the children Catholic.
[01:10:39]  Yeah, so this is like my end.
[01:10:42]  No matter how many sins I commit on this earth, I feel like when I get up there and St. Peter's trying to give me a hard time, I'm going to be like, Look, I made you three little Catholics.
[01:10:52]  All that's all I want to hear is thank you and welcome.
[01:10:58]  And here's your mansion.
[01:11:00]  That's right.
[01:11:01]  So now wait.
[01:11:02]  So, what so professionally, what's next for you, John?
[01:11:05]  You're still at ABC, Caitlin.

=== Learning Self Knowledge (02:21) ===

[01:11:06]  So, but what are you doing now to pay the bills since now you do have to no more poverty?
[01:11:11]  Yeah, well.
[01:11:13]  No, actually, there really is poverty now.
[01:11:15]  Like, if you don't work, it turns out you're poor.
[01:11:19]  In the Catholic Church, if you're a priest and you don't work, you just keep your job and you still get paid, and people suffer.
[01:11:26]  But that's another issue.
[01:11:28]  Yeah.
[01:11:29]  So I looked at different things.
[01:11:31]  I looked at promoting hedge funds.
[01:11:34]  I looked at selling vacuum cleaners.
[01:11:37]  I looked at teaching high school religion.
[01:11:40]  I looked at a lot of different things.
[01:11:44]  I really have fallen into something that I absolutely love.
[01:11:47]  And that is in the industry, we call it executive coaching or leadership development.
[01:11:54]  But it's working with people across industries and even people who are not specifically in business.
[01:12:01]  To help them basically make good decisions in the workplace, primarily.
[01:12:06]  So it's not life coaching.
[01:12:07]  Life coaching would be more like a kind of a low level counselor or something.
[01:12:13]  What I do is I get involved with people who are entrepreneurs.
[01:12:18]  And I say, I'm going to work with you for a year.
[01:12:21]  And that's kind of the minimal thing that we do.
[01:12:24]  Like one year, a retainer, and I am with you as a partner.
[01:12:29]  And the first step is help to get.
[01:12:31]  You need to get to know yourself better.
[01:12:32]  And we use very specific personality assessment tools in order to do that.
[01:12:40]  So the first part is self knowledge, self assessment.
[01:12:44]  And then the second part is self management and then apply leadership skills.
[01:12:47]  But basically, it's people, and I've seen this over the last few months, but people have told me that the most expensive decisions we make are the decisions that we make when we're afraid, when we're anxious, when we're jealous, when we're insecure, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
[01:13:03]  Right?
[01:13:03]  Or when we're greedy.
[01:13:05]  And the best and sometimes most profitable decisions that we make are the ones that we make when we're coming from a secure position personally.
[01:13:13]  When we're making a decision where we need, we've gotten some advice from somebody that we trust.
[01:13:18]  And so I'm working with executives and their immediate leadership teams to make good decisions and to give them courage to go ahead and to execute on those decisions.

=== Investing in Trust (02:31) ===

[01:13:28]  And I just loved it.
[01:13:29]  So the firm is Morris and Larson.
[01:13:33]  So it's morrisonlarson.com is where you can find us.
[01:13:36]  And it's just been a blessing.
[01:13:37]  I'm doing it little by little.
[01:13:38]  I'm also still working with Fox News as an analyst, as a contributor.
[01:13:44]  But I'm just loving this working with people who have high impact.
[01:13:48]  We say, I'm going to invest in having somebody who I can confide in, who I can trust.
[01:13:55]  And together we'll make good decisions.
[01:13:57]  And I think it always pays off.
[01:13:59]  Well, it sounds perfect for you.
[01:14:02]  I know in your letter announcing that you were.
[01:14:05]  Leaving the priesthood, you said, I hope you are able to hear the newfound joy I have in my heart, despite my fear of stepping into the unknown.
[01:14:14]  You recognize some will not understand.
[01:14:17]  I'm okay with that too.
[01:14:19]  Please pray for me.
[01:14:21]  I did.
[01:14:22]  Millions of others did.
[01:14:24]  So far, so good.
[01:14:26]  Listen, Merry Christmas to the two of you on the first Christmas you will have together as husband and wife, and just so many blessings to you both.
[01:14:35]  Thank you for being with me.
[01:14:37]  Thank you, Megan.
[01:14:39]  Today's episode was brought to you in part by Bloomsy Box.
[01:14:42]  Farm fresh flowers delivered right to your door.
[01:14:45]  Go to bloomsybox.com and enter code MK to get 15% off and free shipping.
[01:14:54]  Okay, on our next show, which is going to be Monday, brand new programming.
[01:14:58]  You're going to love it.
[01:15:00]  Everyone's abandoning you during the holiday season, not us.
[01:15:03]  We've got new programming coming every show.
[01:15:05]  No repeats, all new interviews.
[01:15:08]  We are going to talk to Jerry Springer.
[01:15:11]  This is an amazing exchange.
[01:15:13]  He's got the most diverse and interesting history.
[01:15:17]  Not only, of course, has he had this talk show, right, for all these years, almost 30 years, but you know, he was the youngest mayor in America at the time.
[01:15:25]  He's got a long political history and somehow that parlayed into him doing shows that are entitled, I Married a Horse.
[01:15:32]  He's very open about that transition, how it happened, what it was like, whether he thinks his show was a force for good.
[01:15:40]  His arrest 30 years ago for Solicitation of prostitution, we'll get into that.
[01:15:45]  And best of all, he will recount for you that time he was five years old and stood on the deck of the Queen Mary coming to America from England, looking at the Statue of Liberty and asking his mother.

=== Megyn Kelly History (00:48) ===

[01:16:00]  What does she mean?
[01:16:02]  What does that mean?
[01:16:04]  And the answer he got, you will love.
[01:16:07]  See you then.
[01:16:07]  Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.
[01:16:10]  No BS, no agenda, and no fear.
[01:16:13]  The Megyn Kelly Show is a devil-may-care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures.
[01:16:29]  And now, what's the kicks?
[01:16:31]  Kicks can fertigrends, lust mange selfies.
[01:16:34]  The sultan.
[01:16:34]  We will be able to make a new dress.
[01:16:37]  We will be able to make a new dress.
[01:16:40]  And we will be able to make a new dress.
[01:16:42]  So, welcome to Grenzler's Beauty.net or your beauty.
[01:16:47]  Host Kicks Beauty Unlimited.