The Megyn Kelly Show - 20201113_janice-dean-on-cuomo-ailes-and-friendship-ep-24
Aired: 2020-11-13
Duration: 02:20:07


=== Welcome To The Megyn Kelly Show (03:21) ===

[00:00:15]  Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.
[00:00:26]  Hey everybody, it's Megyn Kelly.
[00:00:28]  Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show.
[00:00:29]  Today, Janice Dean.
[00:00:32]  meteorologist at Fox News and one of my best and closest friends in the world.
[00:00:38]  She's an amazing person, and though she be, but the meteorologist, she is fierce.
[00:00:44]  She is taking on New York State Governor Andrew Cuomo in a big way, and she's really the only one trying to hold this guy to account for his disastrous order that nursing homes in this state take on COVID-positive patients.
[00:00:59]  After that, over 6,000 people died in the New York State.
[00:01:03]  Nursing homes and sadly, Janice's in-laws were two of them.
[00:01:07]  We have a long history.
[00:01:09]  She and I uh, we're going to talk about Covid Cuomo, the media, our time together at FOX and, for the first time, she and I will get the chance to talk publicly about the fall of Roger Ales uh, which it's a discussion i've been long waiting to have with her in in this kind of forum.
[00:01:29]  So I hope you'll listen and appreciate The moment you were about to have, the, I don't know, the profound experience I just had with her.
[00:01:43]  Hope you enjoy it.
[00:01:44]  But first, before we get to that, let's get you fired up for what's about to come.
[00:01:50]  Do you have your Black Rifle coffee ready?
[00:01:52]  I hope you do, because it makes everything more enjoyable.
[00:01:54]  That's what Evan Hafer says.
[00:01:56]  He started it, he's the CEO, and he started it after over 20 years in the U.S. Army as an infantryman, special forces soldier, and a CIA contractor.
[00:02:04]  Evan founded. Black Rifle Coffee Company in 2014, along with his bud, Army Ranger Matt Best, as the combination of two passions, developing premium, fresh, roasted coffee and honoring and supporting those who serve on the front lines.
[00:02:19]  Black Rifle Coffee Company has donated over 45,000 pounds of coffee or over 1 million cups of coffee to soldiers deployed overseas and others doing good, like law enforcement cops and wildland firefighters on the West Coast and medical workers during the COVID-19 response, just in 2020 alone.
[00:02:38]  For every coffee purchase you make throughout November, Black Rifle Coffee will send a bag of its limited edition holiday rose to a service member currently deployed overseas to be delivered by Christmas morning.
[00:02:48]  Isn't that nice?
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[00:03:03]  Do you want to support the cause?
[00:03:04]  Go to blackriflecoffee.comslash MK today and check out the freshest coffee in America.
[00:03:10]  The team has spent thousands of hours tasting, sourcing, and perfecting coffee from all over the world.
[00:03:15]  BlackRifleCoffee.com slash MK gets you 20% off coffee, apparel, and gear, as well as 20% off your first month of the Coffee Club.
[00:03:25]  And now, Janice Dean.
[00:03:30]  Joining me now, one of my closest friends on earth, Janice Dean.
[00:03:34]  JD, so happy you're here.

=== Remembering The Cuomo Controversy (05:17) ===

[00:03:36]  Oh my gosh, Megan, I am so excited for you.
[00:03:40]  This is amazing.
[00:03:41]  Oh, thank you.
[00:03:42]  You've been so supportive of the whole adventure and of everything in my life.
[00:03:46]  So it's funny because I'm having you on.
[00:03:49]  Yes, we have an amazing friendship and we've been through a lot together, much of which has made news.
[00:03:55]  But you're, you know, you're back in the news and you've become this warrior, which we're going to get to in a minute when it comes.
[00:04:01]  To COVID and Cuomo.
[00:04:02]  But I just want the audience to understand how we know each other.
[00:04:04]  So we both worked at Fox News.
[00:04:07]  You're still there.
[00:04:07]  You're the meteorologist.
[00:04:09]  And I was thinking, like, when did she and I become friends?
[00:04:13]  And what I, you tell me what you remember.
[00:04:15]  I remember seeing you at the Social Security office when we were both changing our names after we had both gotten married in like 2008.
[00:04:26]  Correct.
[00:04:26]  I actually, I think it was the DMV because I was.
[00:04:31]  It was the DMV in Manhattan because I was getting my name changed to Newman.
[00:04:37]  And I remember you saying to me, because you're so quick and funny, you said, Okay, Janice Dean, the weather machine.
[00:04:44]  So you're going to be Janice Newman, the weather woman.
[00:04:50]  Remember that?
[00:04:51]  Do you remember that?
[00:04:52]  Yes, that's right.
[00:04:52]  You're so smart.
[00:04:54]  And I was like, Oh my gosh, this woman has to be my best friend.
[00:04:58]  And then we made it happen.
[00:05:01]  I always laugh when people underestimate you because.
[00:05:04]  They don't know you.
[00:05:05]  Remember when you first started to take on the Cuomo thing and really started to.
[00:05:10]  You're like the only one.
[00:05:11]  You're only the only reason anybody's talking about what Governor Cuomo did with COVID.
[00:05:15]  And Soledad O'Brien, who might be the nastiest person on Twitter, I mean, she's definitely top three.
[00:05:22]  She's gotten very, very bitter in her post CNN time, was like, oh, the meteorologist weighs in.
[00:05:29]  Like, oh, like stupid meteorologist.
[00:05:33]  Why are we listening to this stupid?
[00:05:34]  And I.
[00:05:35]  I was like, yeah, you know what?
[00:05:38]  The meteorologist, she's so sweet.
[00:05:40]  She wrote the book mostly sunny and she's so positive.
[00:05:44]  And she's going to kill if you hurt her or hurt her relatives or issue an order that happened to lead to the deaths of 6,000 people, including her relatives.
[00:05:54]  So you know what?
[00:05:55]  Ms. O'Brien, she gets an opinion.
[00:05:58]  And that's what I love about you is like, you pick your battles.
[00:06:00]  You don't know, you're not out there fighting every day, but you're strong on Twitter, which I love.
[00:06:05]  You pick your battles, and I've yet to see you.
[00:06:08]  Lose one of them?
[00:06:11]  Well, I don't love it.
[00:06:12]  I don't love being that you've mentioned, mostly sunny, and I've tried to maintain that kind of attitude for most of my career.
[00:06:20]  And I actually enjoy being the meteorologist because I don't have to weigh in on politics.
[00:06:28]  I've done news before, I did it early on in my career, and weather's wonderful.
[00:06:33]  I always say the only red and blue that I see on a map are areas of high pressure and low pressure.
[00:06:39]  And I love keeping it that way.
[00:06:41]  I love being out with the crowds.
[00:06:43]  Pre COVID, hugging people, having them be on television with me and delivering a forecast for Fox and Friends.
[00:06:49]  It really truly is the greatest job I've ever had.
[00:06:52]  So to find myself in this weird situation of going after the governor of New York, I don't love it.
[00:07:01]  And I do hope that at some point we get some answers and accountability so I can be that Janice, mostly sunny Dean that you see on television again.
[00:07:11]  I find it quite hard.
[00:07:13]  I don't know if I have the Thickest of skin, but I will tell you, and I've said this to you before all of the things that have led up to this moment of taking on the governor of New York, I believe have helped me with this.
[00:07:26]  I know we're going to talk about Roger Ailes, I know we're going to talk about I miss.
[00:07:31]  Throughout my broadcasting career, I've had very powerful men that have told me, No, you can't do something.
[00:07:41]  You just sit there, little meteorologist girl.
[00:07:45]  And because I've gone through situations where I have taken on powerful people for the right reasons, I believe that has given me the building blocks to where I am today, where I am going after this governor.
[00:08:02]  And I'm just going to continue to cry from the mountaintop as long as it takes for people to realize what this man did, because I want accountability and I want answers.
[00:08:17]  This, it's thanks to you that anybody's even focusing on this.
[00:08:22]  Stu Bergier of The Blaze said, and this is a quote, it's quite possible Cuomo would be getting away with this if not for the efforts of people.
[00:08:30]  Like Janice Dean.
[00:08:31]  So let's fill the audience in on what we're talking about.
[00:08:35]  And Governor Cuomo here in New York may become even more relevant to your life soon because if Joe Biden takes the oath of office on January 20th, he's talked about, they've talked about, they've floated his name as possible attorney general or possibly another position in the cabinet.

=== Exposing The Nursing Home Mandate (15:02) ===

[00:08:54]  And many believe he has higher aspirations in another term or two to ascend to the presidency, something his father, Mario Cuomo, who was beloved here in New York for many years.
[00:09:05]  Was never quite able to do.
[00:09:08]  So you need to know about him.
[00:09:09]  And honestly, it's just about a politician who has been universally loved.
[00:09:15]  I mean, the way the media fawn over him is stomach turning to me.
[00:09:19]  And this guy, if he were a Republican, he would have been run out of office.
[00:09:26]  You know how many examinations and investigations we'd be having into his conduct?
[00:09:30]  So we're going to walk through it a bit now.
[00:09:32]  All right.
[00:09:33]  So let's start with Janice is married to Sean, a firefighter.
[00:09:38]  Counterterrorism expert.
[00:09:40]  And they have two little boys, Matthew and Theodore.
[00:09:43]  And Sean's parents, Mickey and Dee, Mickey was also a firefighter, married 59 years.
[00:09:51]  They lived up until the spring in a fourth floor walk up in Brooklyn for nearly 60 years.
[00:09:58]  And then they got sick.
[00:10:00]  You take it from there.
[00:10:03]  Right.
[00:10:03]  And this is something that I am very compassionate about.
[00:10:08]  People who are middle aged people who are wondering what to do with their ailing parents.
[00:10:13]  Sean struggled for months on what to do with his parents.
[00:10:18]  They, as you mentioned, they lived in a four story walk up in Brooklyn for almost 60 years.
[00:10:23]  It was rent controlled.
[00:10:25]  We could not get them out.
[00:10:27]  And they were very adamant about that.
[00:10:30]  They didn't want to move anywhere for many years.
[00:10:32]  No one wants to leave a rent controlled apartment.
[00:10:35]  No one.
[00:10:35]  Of course not.
[00:10:36]  But when they start getting older and they're having problems walking and getting down the steps, You know, then it's time to try to figure out what we're going to do.
[00:10:45]  And they were really adamant they didn't want to move out of their apartment, even if we helped, you know, find an apartment that was on the ground level close to where we were.
[00:10:53]  It just got to the point where Sean couldn't ask them anymore.
[00:10:56]  They weren't going to do it.
[00:10:57]  But then they got started getting sicker.
[00:10:59]  His dad had dementia.
[00:11:03]  There were regular trips to the ER.
[00:11:05]  Sean was running from our place on Long Island to Brooklyn to take him to the hospital.
[00:11:09]  His sister was doing the same thing.
[00:11:11]  His mom was also could not walk, had back problems, had.
[00:11:16]  Problems, you know, walking and even getting out of a chair was difficult.
[00:11:21]  Yeah, they needed care.
[00:11:22]  They needed 24 hour care.
[00:11:25]  And so Sean spent a lot of time looking for a place.
[00:11:28]  The plan was we were going to have them in a really nice assisted living residence that was very close to where we are on Long Island.
[00:11:36]  We had a double room waiting for them.
[00:11:38]  We loved the staff.
[00:11:39]  It was bright, it was sunny.
[00:11:40]  Dee loved the people around her.
[00:11:42]  It was the most social she's ever been in her entire life because she was in this forced.
[00:11:47]  Story walk up in Brooklyn for so many years.
[00:11:50]  And his father needed rehab.
[00:11:53]  So he was in a nursing home temporarily to get better because he had a lot of urinary tract infections.
[00:11:58]  It was just, you know, we needed him better to get him.
[00:12:01]  Into the assisted living residence.
[00:12:03]  And then COVID happened.
[00:12:05]  And his dad died quickly.
[00:12:08]  He died at the end of March.
[00:12:11]  And Sean got a call on a Saturday morning.
[00:12:14]  And we had no idea.
[00:12:15]  We were in quarantine, right?
[00:12:16]  We weren't able to see them.
[00:12:18]  The eyes and ears were the people at their elder care facilities.
[00:12:22]  We couldn't physically be there to see them.
[00:12:25]  We didn't know his dad was sick at all.
[00:12:27]  We got a call on a Saturday morning that said his dad wasn't feeling well.
[00:12:30]  He was running a fever.
[00:12:31]  And three hours later, we got a call saying he's dead.
[00:12:36]  And we did not know he died of COVID until the death certificate.
[00:12:41]  And we really nobody ever told you?
[00:12:43]  Nope.
[00:12:44]  No one ever told us.
[00:12:45]  To this day, I don't know how he was tested, how, you know, at what stage he was tested after he died.
[00:12:54]  We're not clear on that.
[00:12:55]  But I do remember Megan getting a call before he died and Sean being on the phone from the people who worked at the nursing home saying, We're going to move your father to a different floor because we're bringing new patients in.
[00:13:08]  And at the time, I didn't think anything of it.
[00:13:10]  Yeah.
[00:13:11]  But then when I started seeing the few news reports that were out there about Cuomo's mandate to put COVID positive patients into nursing homes, that's when my back went up and I went, hmm, okay, I'm going to remember that.
[00:13:25]  His mom died two weeks later in the assist, she got COVID in her assisted living residence.
[00:13:32]  We brought her to the hospital.
[00:13:34]  We were afraid to bring her to the hospital.
[00:13:36]  We thought she was going to get COVID in the hospital because we just thought she wasn't feeling well.
[00:13:40]  Gets to the hospital, they diagnose her with COVID, she dies maybe two days later.
[00:13:48]  And because she died in the hospital, her number does not count as an elder care facility death of COVID because she died in the hospital.
[00:13:59]  And that's another reason why I have a problem with this governor he will not release the total number of seniors that got COVID in their elder care facilities but died in the hospital.
[00:14:09]  And those numbers are probably double what he's reporting.
[00:14:14]  His health department.
[00:14:16]  And no one's making him release those.
[00:14:18]  No.
[00:14:18]  So we know it was over 6,000 seniors who died in the nursing homes.
[00:14:23]  And I mean, the number that's very similar is over 6,000 COVID positive patients who were moved into nursing homes.
[00:14:33]  Correct.
[00:14:34]  And yet we don't know that third number, which is how many died in hospitals having contracted COVID and being shifted out to the hospital because they were that ill.
[00:14:45]  And how can he get away with not?
[00:14:46]  Telling us?
[00:14:47]  I mean, all these numbers should be public.
[00:14:49]  How does he keep it secret?
[00:14:51]  That's a very good question.
[00:14:53]  And one of the reasons why I'm so vocal.
[00:14:55]  He's actually being sued, or his health department is being sued by the Empire Center, which is a watchdog of sorts.
[00:15:04]  Bill Hammond, I've gotten to know him.
[00:15:05]  I've gotten to know a lot of New York lawmakers through all of this and some of the journalists out there.
[00:15:10]  He's suing them for the information.
[00:15:12]  And we were supposed to know the total number.
[00:15:15]  The health commissioner, Howard Zucker, said he was going to have it after the election.
[00:15:20]  Ha!
[00:15:21]  Have those numbers after the election.
[00:15:23]  But wait.
[00:15:23]  Oh, no, we don't have those numbers.
[00:15:25]  You're going to have to wait till sometime in January.
[00:15:29]  So, yeah, they're getting away with it.
[00:15:31]  He's getting away with murder right now.
[00:15:32]  Well, maybe that he's going to keep it under wraps until he gets a tap on the shoulder to possibly join the cabinet.
[00:15:37]  And then there's going to be another reason to delay.
[00:15:39]  Because if you're right, if the numbers are double, and now you're talking as many as 20,000 people dead potentially, because he thought it was a good idea to sign an order saying that.
[00:15:53]  Nursing homes had to accept COVID positive patients.
[00:15:57]  They could not turn them away, and new patients coming in.
[00:16:01]  Could not be tested for COVID, right, JD?
[00:16:05]  That second piece of it is equally egregious.
[00:16:08]  Very important, that second piece that you could not test them.
[00:16:12]  You could not, what's the word?
[00:16:19]  You know, you had to take these patients regardless of whether or not they had COVID.
[00:16:26]  So that was in place for 46 days, 46 days.
[00:16:29]  And Sean did not want me to go out there.
[00:16:33]  And talk about this at all.
[00:16:35]  You know him.
[00:16:36]  He's very quiet.
[00:16:37]  I'm surprised he married me.
[00:16:40]  Me too.
[00:16:41]  Right?
[00:16:42]  He's a very quiet, like, doesn't want anybody broadcasting anything.
[00:16:47]  But he supports me.
[00:16:48]  He doesn't like the spotlight.
[00:16:49]  He does not.
[00:16:50]  He supports my career, of course.
[00:16:52]  But we had many discussions about this because when I was reading about the March 25th order, the executive order by Cuomo that was in place for 46 days to put COVID positive patients into nursing homes, When we saw him on TV never being asked about the mandate, instead joking with his brother on CNN with a giant cotton swab, you know, about the governor getting his COVID test, it made me furious.
[00:17:20]  And I was in touch with Tucker Carlson throughout the whole thing.
[00:17:23]  You know Tucker very well.
[00:17:24]  And we both talked to him off air, we're good friends.
[00:17:29]  And I was telling him this.
[00:17:30]  And Tucker said, Janice, whenever you want to come on my show, I will give you a platform.
[00:17:35]  Because I was saying to him, why aren't people asking him about this crazy order?
[00:17:39]  Why are they letting him get away with this and not asking him these important questions?
[00:17:46]  Thousands of families, thousands of families deserve answers.
[00:17:50]  And this is not a political thing.
[00:17:52]  This is not Republican or Democrat.
[00:17:53]  Yeah, I know.
[00:17:54]  He's tried to dismiss your criticism as political, spoken like a true politician who knows absolutely nothing about you.
[00:18:01]  I don't think in all the time we've been together, you've ever taken a political position.
[00:18:05]  You're Canadian.
[00:18:06]  You know, I was like, eh.
[00:18:09]  It's like he doesn't know you're not a political person.
[00:18:11]  You're an upset, grieving family member.
[00:18:13]  Like everyone is.
[00:18:15]  I have met hundreds of grieving families.
[00:18:18]  None of us ask each other who they voted for.
[00:18:20]  And Mickey and Dee, by the way, were registered Democrats.
[00:18:23]  How about that?
[00:18:25]  Shouldn't we investigate this situation?
[00:18:29]  What if it was 6,000 children, Megan?
[00:18:33]  What if it was double that that had died because of an order?
[00:18:38]  What if the governor had put COVID patients into schools?
[00:18:42]  This would be the lead story in every newspaper, on every television station, if he had a Republican, if he was a registered Republican and not a Democrat.
[00:18:55]  He was also out there touting his love for seniors, Matilda's Law on March 20th of this past year.
[00:19:02]  And we're going to protect seniors in nursing homes, he said.
[00:19:05]  We're going to protect the seniors in nursing homes.
[00:19:08]  The news was calling him America's governor.
[00:19:11]  And then he signed this order, which I know it's like a death trap.
[00:19:17]  I mean, it's how were they supposed to survive the most vulnerable among us with COVID positive patients being put into their facilities as they were being warned?
[00:19:30]  Most of these homes don't have private rooms.
[00:19:33]  These COVID positive patients are going to be too close to the other already vulnerable seniors.
[00:19:40]  That's the thing about it, JD, that drives me crazy.
[00:19:42]  The most insane is he knew the risk.
[00:19:46]  The nursing homes told him.
[00:19:49]  There was a statement by the Society for Post Acute and Long Term Care Medicine saying, caring for COVID 19 positive residents is unsafe and jeopardizes all.
[00:20:02]  Patients in the nursing home.
[00:20:03]  They said forcing these admissions may have dire and fatal consequences.
[00:20:09]  And he didn't listen.
[00:20:11]  And now he's out there celebrating himself and his leadership during the crisis.
[00:20:19]  I couldn't believe when I heard he was writing a book in the middle of a pandemic.
[00:20:24]  What governor in the middle of a pandemic could write a book about this?
[00:20:28]  And then he goes on the TV shows and said, well, it's halftime.
[00:20:32]  No, it's not halftime.
[00:20:34]  There are 30,000 dead New Yorkers.
[00:20:38]  Get to work.
[00:20:39]  You should be writing condolence cards instead of writing a book.
[00:20:43]  And now the numbers are going up here in New York, and he continues to go on his victory lap.
[00:20:49]  It is insane to me.
[00:20:52]  And you know what?
[00:20:53]  When he does finally get asked the question, Megan, when someone finally says, What about that nursing home order?
[00:21:01]  March 25th.
[00:21:02]  COVID positive patients into nursing homes.
[00:21:05]  You know, what about that?
[00:21:07]  He'll blame everyone.
[00:21:09]  Like you said, politics.
[00:21:10]  It's the New York Post.
[00:21:12]  It's Fox News.
[00:21:13]  He's blamed God.
[00:21:14]  He's blamed Mother Nature.
[00:21:15]  He's blamed the nursing home workers, he's blamed the visitors.
[00:21:20]  P.S.
[00:21:20]  We never got to visit our loved ones.
[00:21:22]  We never got to visit them.
[00:21:23]  We didn't have funerals.
[00:21:24]  We didn't have last rites.
[00:21:26]  We weren't able to have wakes.
[00:21:27]  We buried them.
[00:21:29]  So we weren't able to go visit them.
[00:21:32]  And finally, there was one time where he said, Oh, old people, they're going to die.
[00:21:36]  I mean, it's insane, Megan.
[00:21:38]  You could, I mean, I want a super cut of all these excuses, except the man that signed the mandate for 46 days to put COVID patients into nursing homes.
[00:21:48]  That man is Andrew Cuomo.
[00:21:50]  And by the way, if you go to the New York healthcare website, it's not there.
[00:21:55]  It's been scrubbed.
[00:21:56]  That order has been scrubbed.
[00:21:57]  What do you mean it's the mandate?
[00:21:59]  Yes, it's gone.
[00:22:01]  You can't find it on the internet.
[00:22:02]  Nope.
[00:22:05]  He's given a total Pass on this by the press.
[00:22:09]  And I know, you know, he went on The View to promote his new book.
[00:22:12]  By the way, his book, I mean, I kid you not, it is called American Crisis Leadership Lessons from the COVID 19.
[00:22:20]  I mean, that's he's actually calling himself a leader and touting his leadership on this problem.
[00:22:27]  Meanwhile, New York State is number one for deaths in the nation.
[00:22:32]  It depends on who you ask.
[00:22:33]  The New York Health Department says it's almost 26,000 dead in New York.
[00:22:36]  Johns Hopkins says it's more like 33,000, but they're being a little. unclear with the numbers.
[00:22:41]  So we don't know, but we know we're number one in deaths.
[00:22:43]  And this guy's got the nerve to go out there and write a book about how to lead during COVID.
[00:22:48]  Honestly, I think it's because when he gave those weekly and daily briefings, he had a calm manner and his manner of speaking was sort of soothing.
[00:22:57]  I don't know.
[00:22:58]  He sort of projected like, oh, I'm getting the whole truth.
[00:23:01]  And it's sort of a good warning for people.
[00:23:02]  Just because someone has a good manner, or maybe in Trump's case, a bad manner, doesn't mean you can tell anything about the The truth or falsity of what's going to come next, of what they're actually saying.
[00:23:15]  Because he's been lying about this order and whether he signed it and whether he understood it.
[00:23:21]  He's just, he's first, he said it never happened.
[00:23:23]  He said it never happened, Janice.
[00:23:25]  I mean, it's like, how does he get away with that?
[00:23:27]  Yes, he did an interview.
[00:23:29]  I just, again, it's excruciating to listen to him.
[00:23:33]  And you can tell he doesn't, somebody has not advised him well because when he starts being asked the question, he gets all huffy like, how dare you ask me about this.
[00:23:44]  Order like that's a tell, that's a tell of deception.
[00:23:47]  He actually said, He said to a guy, a reporter in the Finger Lakes, he said, 'How cruel of you to ask me of that.' I mean, like, seriously, he said that seriously.

=== Asking Tough Questions About Lies (03:44) ===

[00:23:57]  He did, and I here it is.
[00:23:59]  I think that you tell yourself a lie so many times, he starts to believe it.
[00:24:04]  And he has been revered in New York for so long, or he hasn't been asked tough questions because you can tell no one has said, Hey, here's your answer.
[00:24:14]  Stick to it.
[00:24:16]  Instead, he has a different answer every single time.
[00:24:19]  And the problem is, you're right.
[00:24:22]  No mainstream media will ask him or follow up on the question and say, Okay, really?
[00:24:29]  Well, here's the order.
[00:24:31]  And it does have your name on it.
[00:24:34]  And follow up with the warnings that he was given.
[00:24:36]  Like, not only.
[00:24:37]  Yes, you absolutely did sign the order.
[00:24:39]  I have it right here.
[00:24:40]  And B, you knew the risks.
[00:24:43]  Cite some of those things I just cited, you know, Society for Post Acute and Long Term Care Medicine.
[00:24:47]  Like, you were told that this was going to have dire and fatal consequences, and you did it anyway.
[00:24:52]  Why did you do that?
[00:24:53]  No, we have one clip from The View.
[00:24:56]  This is Sonny Hostin, who, I mean, this is weak sauce, but she was like, how about that COVID thing and that nursing home order?
[00:25:04]  And here's what he said The conspiracy they're trying to spread just has no factual basis.
[00:25:11]  But yes, people in nursing homes died, and they're playing politics with the issue, which I think is especially cruel.
[00:25:18]  To hear you guys again.
[00:25:20]  Conspiracy.
[00:25:21]  It's a conspiracy.
[00:25:22]  And also, his percentages are wrong because we don't have the total number of seniors that got COVID and died in the hospital.
[00:25:29]  So he is giving false information all over the place.
[00:25:32]  And Sonny, with her, hey, hey, hey, hey, you know, didn't even follow up.
[00:25:36]  They just gave him a pass.
[00:25:38]  And by the way, before she asked him the nursing home question, it was like, I love this book so much.
[00:25:43]  It's so.
[00:25:43]  Awesome.
[00:25:44]  So, how on earth am I supposed to take these people seriously?
[00:25:48]  Honestly, Megan, I just, you know what?
[00:25:51]  Governor Cuomo, come on Megyn Kelly's show.
[00:25:54]  I dare you, Mr. Tough Guy.
[00:25:56]  Instead of going on with Howard Stern and, you know, and just love life and nonsense and my leadership book, take some hard questions.
[00:26:07]  Show me you're a leader.
[00:26:09]  Show me you are the governor of the, you know, your greatest state that has lost over.
[00:26:14]  30,000 people to COVID.
[00:26:16]  That's right.
[00:26:17]  Show me how tough you are.
[00:26:18]  You're always telling us how tough you are.
[00:26:20]  You know, there's a saying, the seven foot center doesn't tell you how tall he is.
[00:26:25]  The tough guy doesn't tell you how tough he is.
[00:26:27]  He doesn't have to.
[00:26:28]  You know.
[00:26:29]  And the fact that he keeps running around saying how tough he is is a real tell on what a weakling he is.
[00:26:35]  Janice and I were joking, like, it'd be great if he would come here and I would sit across from him at the table and ask him my tough questions.
[00:26:42]  And then she would just jump out of the closet, like, aha!
[00:26:45]  And another thing.
[00:26:47]  Okay, but Governor Cuomo, I promise we won't actually do that to you.
[00:26:50]  But since you're so tough, I'm sure you can handle it.
[00:26:52]  But I would love to ask him those tough questions.
[00:26:54]  If you're really tough and you're really smart and you really have nothing to hide, the truth is your ally.
[00:26:59]  You want to be asked the tough questions.
[00:27:01]  Bring it on.
[00:27:02]  Yeah, let's talk about it because I didn't do what you're saying I did.
[00:27:05]  Oh, and yesterday, of course, he was talking about how he would have liked to punch out Donald Trump.
[00:27:10]  You know, like really, really?
[00:27:13]  That's what you're focused on.
[00:27:15]  Yeah, because he calls Chris Cuomo the brother of the governor.
[00:27:20]  The CNN anchor is Chris Cuomo, and the New York State governor is Andrew Cuomo.
[00:27:24]  And Andrew Cuomo is telling Howard Sterney he would have liked to punch out Donald Trump because he insulted my family.
[00:27:30]  Because everyone calls Chris Cuomo Fredo because he is definitely the Fredo of the Cuomo family.
[00:27:35]  I mean, sorry, the truth hurts.
[00:27:37]  Apparently, that's racist if you call him that.
[00:27:40]  Well, I'm half Italian, so I'm going to say it.

=== Confronting Chris Cuomo Directly (15:53) ===

[00:27:42]  Isn't that how this works?
[00:27:45]  Oh my God.
[00:27:46]  It's also why I can say the term paddy wagon.
[00:27:48]  I'm half Irish on the other half, which I found out the hard way on Fox News is also considered a slur because it's not P A D D Y, it's P A T T Y from like rounding up all the drunken paddies and taking them away.
[00:28:00]  But I can speak on behalf of Irish people.
[00:28:02]  We don't give a shit how much you offend us.
[00:28:05]  We are unoffendable.
[00:28:07]  It's one of the great things about being Irish.
[00:28:09]  You know, I was thinking, you remember that show, You Might Be a Redneck?
[00:28:13]  Remember that?
[00:28:14]  I mean, obviously, you can't do that on television anymore.
[00:28:17]  Like, it was, what was his name?
[00:28:19]  Jeff Foxworthy.
[00:28:20]  You Might Be a Redneck?
[00:28:21]  It's a whole routine.
[00:28:22]  So now it's just like, you might be a racist if you say this.
[00:28:26]  You know, it's like everything.
[00:28:28]  Have some orange juice.
[00:28:29]  Racist.
[00:28:30]  Oh, no.
[00:28:31]  We were just talking about this with Matt Taibbi again yesterday, who's, we were talking about white fragility, this retreat.
[00:28:37]  Ridiculous book by Robin D'Angelo.
[00:28:39]  And it was, and her premise is if you're friends with, if you're a white person who's friends with a black person and you're just having a good time and you're just loving them and, you know, enjoying their friendship and you are not thinking about skin color, you're a racist.
[00:28:52]  More with Janice Dean in one minute.
[00:28:53]  But first, I shared a hot story a couple weeks ago and it nearly crashed the Scoremaster website.
[00:28:59]  The story is there is help coming your way if you have bad credit or mediocre credit or even if you have okay credit, but you really want it to go up.
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[00:29:10]  The story I told is that.
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[00:30:14]  Can I just go through because I was looking at this guy, Stu Bergier at the Blaze?
[00:30:19]  He did a great timeline.
[00:30:20]  of Governor Cuomo and like all the crap that President Trump got for allegedly mishandling COVID, which really kind of led to his problems in this election.
[00:30:30]  You know, if you look at the number one issue for the majority of voters, it was COVID.
[00:30:34]  And the people for whom that was an issue voted against him.
[00:30:38]  He did like a little timeline on Cuomo.
[00:30:41]  And I just, I did a couple of bullets.
[00:30:43]  I'm just going to read for the audience so you understand.
[00:30:45]  This is what happened from the guy who's just published a book being touted by the media on leadership lessons in handling COVID.
[00:30:55]  Okay.
[00:30:56]  3-2, March 2nd.
[00:30:58]  He says, New Yorkers are worrying too much about this.
[00:31:00]  3-4, March 4th.
[00:31:01]  The pandemic is being caused by fear.
[00:31:03]  3-6.
[00:31:04]  More people are dying from the flu than from COVID.
[00:31:06]  Remember how that was awful to say?
[00:31:08]  Well, he said it.
[00:31:09]  March 8th.
[00:31:10]  Go on the subway.
[00:31:11]  March 9th.
[00:31:12]  This fear is unwarranted.
[00:31:13]  March 11th.
[00:31:14]  His brother, Chris Cuomo, after a six-year ban and interviewing his brother, is now allowed to interview him, and it's a joke.
[00:31:21]  No hard questions.
[00:31:22]  March 12th.
[00:31:24]  There's not going to be any quarantine.
[00:31:25]  March 18th.
[00:31:26]  There's not going to be a quarantine.
[00:31:27]  There's not going to be a shelter in place order for New York.
[00:31:30]  March 19th, no shutdown is coming.
[00:31:32]  March 20th, New York is shutting down.
[00:31:35]  Literally the day after he said no shutdown is coming, it happened.
[00:31:39]  And it came three days after he slammed New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio for even suggesting that there would be a shutdown.
[00:31:47]  And as Stu points out, it's very hard to be on the wrong end of an argument with Mayor de Blasio, but Governor Cuomo found a way to do it.
[00:31:55]  Okay, then March 24th, Once again, with Chris Cuomo yucking it up about how funny and funny and, you know, so much levity at such a good time.
[00:32:04]  The very next day, He issues that order that you could easily make the case directly led to over 6,000 deaths of seniors.
[00:32:14]  March 29th, that's when the people were jumping up and down, saying, This is dangerous.
[00:32:18]  This is dangerous.
[00:32:18]  He didn't listen.
[00:32:19]  And now he's out there celebrating himself as the media enables his being anointed as this politician, America's governor, perhaps a cabinet member, perhaps even a president.
[00:32:33]  It's gross.
[00:32:35]  It's gross.
[00:32:36]  I'm going to continue to try to do what I can from my little.
[00:32:39]  Beautiful Twitter feed.
[00:32:41]  And, you know, I'm grateful for your support and I'm grateful for Stu's support and I'm grateful for Fox News and I'm grateful for Tucker.
[00:32:48]  And it was finally when Sean realized that this governor was getting away with murder that he said, I think you need to say something.
[00:32:57]  And that's when I went on Tucker's show, mid May, I believe, and started talking about it.
[00:33:03]  And so I'm grateful for the media outlets that have the interest and are reporting the story.
[00:33:10]  But there's not enough.
[00:33:12]  Well, and yet CNN has the nerve to call Fox News state TV.
[00:33:17]  Where's your coverage of this?
[00:33:19]  You should be bending over backwards to be on these stories, given your obvious conflict of interest and the total impropriety of letting Chris Cuomo interview his brother so many times now over a very important and scary, deadly issue.
[00:33:33]  They should be humiliated.
[00:33:34]  I mean, if anything, they should be beating up on him more, not less.
[00:33:38]  They don't touch it.
[00:33:39]  They don't touch it.
[00:33:40]  They don't.
[00:33:41]  And I've actually gone after some of the anchors on CNN.
[00:33:44]  And MSNBC, when they've had the governor on afterwards via Twitter and said, Oh, how about that nursing home question?
[00:33:51]  You must have run out of time.
[00:33:53]  And they've gotten angry.
[00:33:55]  Well, we asked him this, this, and this bullet points.
[00:33:58]  And I just said, You know what?
[00:34:00]  Good on you.
[00:34:02]  But the most important thing right now for New Yorkers, or many of us, is the fact that he has lost more people than any other state.
[00:34:10]  And he continues to dodge the nursing home question because of the media.
[00:34:15]  And I have received so many people with those blue checks.
[00:34:18]  That have either verbally told me or direct messaged me or texted me saying, Keep going, JD, good job.
[00:34:28]  But yet.
[00:34:30]  Well, there's something else, though.
[00:34:32]  I won't say the name.
[00:34:33]  I know this story because of our friendship, but somebody in a position of power reached out to you to give you a warning.
[00:34:40]  It wasn't on behalf of Governor Cuomo, it was a friend who's in a position to understand Governor Cuomo's character.
[00:34:47]  And do you want to share what the warning was?
[00:34:50]  Yeah, the warning was, and this person does know the family very well.
[00:34:55]  They said, Good job.
[00:34:58]  You are, you know, you're fighting for a good cause.
[00:35:03]  Watch your back.
[00:35:05]  Watch your back.
[00:35:07]  So he, you know, listen, he's got, I've said this many times.
[00:35:12]  I go out to rallies as well with all of these families who have situations like ours that have lost loved ones.
[00:35:19]  And I feel like I don't know these people, but they're part of my family.
[00:35:22]  We're like COVID orphans, right?
[00:35:24]  And he's got the power.
[00:35:27]  He's got the name, the Cuomo name.
[00:35:29]  He's got the Democrats on his side.
[00:35:31]  But you know what?
[00:35:32]  We've got the angels on our side.
[00:35:34]  And I just want people to know we're talking about Sean's parents.
[00:35:38]  Sean Newman, he's an American hero.
[00:35:42]  This is a guy who was a firefighter on 9 11.
[00:35:46]  JD can cite the facts better than I can, but he was off that day, right?
[00:35:52]  He was getting his license renewed, if memory serves, and basically managed to get down.
[00:35:59]  To the towers.
[00:36:01]  It was too late, and spent the next Several months digging out through the rubble, the remains of his friends, his buddies, and others who had been working in those buildings at great risk to himself.
[00:36:16]  That's Sean Newman.
[00:36:17]  Okay.
[00:36:17]  And then devoted the rest of his life to counterterrorism work, to running into more burning buildings to save people.
[00:36:22]  So screw you, Andrew Cuomo, for not having the decency to answer his questions about his dead parents.
[00:36:32]  Yep.
[00:36:33]  Absolutely.
[00:36:33]  Absolutely.
[00:36:34]  He's the frontline worker right there, you know.
[00:36:37]  There were some articles recently about all of these anchors that are working extra hours because of the election and they got like three hours of sleep.
[00:36:48]  And oh my goodness, they're doing such amazing work.
[00:36:50]  And I'm like, yeah, I'm married to a firefighter who basically, that is his whole 23 year career, is not getting enough sleep because he's actually going in to try to save people.
[00:37:02]  So save me your nonsense about the pretty anchors on television.
[00:37:07]  I'm one of those anchors.
[00:37:08]  I get it.
[00:37:09]  I do hurricane coverage.
[00:37:11]  But I'm not on there going, I haven't slept in three days because of Hurricane So and so.
[00:37:17]  You know?
[00:37:17]  Oh, well, this reminds me of a great comment you made when the designer Stella McCartney was singing, what's his name, Joaquin Phoenix's praises after the Oscars.
[00:37:30]  And he had gotten up there and made a speech about how, like, I don't know, we're not supposed to be drinking cow milk anymore.
[00:37:35]  And there's all sorts of things he's in favor of.
[00:37:38]  And fine, I have no problem with him supporting those causes.
[00:37:42]  But she wanted us to, To stand up and clap for Joaquin Phoenix for wearing the same suit to the Oscars and the Emmys, like his personal effort to save the world.
[00:37:54]  And I was like, This is ridiculous.
[00:37:57]  You mean he acted like a normal human and wore something twice?
[00:38:00]  And you were like, Oh, and here's a picture of my husband in his suit that he wears every day too.
[00:38:07]  He's like Sean in his fireman's outfit, like a strip.
[00:38:13]  Right, with soot on it for like 10 years.
[00:38:16]  People are so out of touch, Janice.
[00:38:18]  They're so out of touch.
[00:38:19]  They don't like, they're drunk on their own wine, celebrating themselves with the news anchors and the Hollywood people.
[00:38:26]  Can we talk about Fox?
[00:38:28]  Yes.
[00:38:28]  People always ask me what it was like to work there, right?
[00:38:30]  Because I was there for 13 and a half years.
[00:38:32]  And I was like, stressful, fun, high wire, bizarre, unpredictable.
[00:38:43]  It was definitely much more of a family than I felt.
[00:38:46]  Any place else I worked.
[00:38:48]  That's for sure.
[00:38:48]  I'm much more of a close family, but also like a really dysfunctional family.
[00:38:53]  You know, I'm not perfectly healthy.
[00:38:56]  There could be some therapy.
[00:38:57]  It was, I would say, it was better for me when I was not at the top, you know, on the way up was easier.
[00:39:04]  And I just wonder, what do you think?
[00:39:06]  Do I have it right?
[00:39:07]  You do.
[00:39:08]  I, you know, listen, when Roger Ailes hired me 17 years ago, he didn't ask me who I voted for.
[00:39:15]  He saw somebody that was a go getter that wanted to.
[00:39:20]  Get into television and get away from a bad job that I was currently in.
[00:39:25]  And from then on, I had mostly great experiences there, barring the stuff I know we're going to talk about.
[00:39:35]  I met, I work with wonderful people.
[00:39:38]  I still work there.
[00:39:39]  I love what I do.
[00:39:41]  I love the people I work with.
[00:39:42]  We have been through a bumpy road with Fox, but I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.
[00:39:53]  And, you know, I'm just grateful.
[00:39:55]  I'm grateful that at 50 years old, I'm still doing what I love to do.
[00:40:02]  You know, I love the viewers.
[00:40:05]  And like I said, I can't wait to get back to the time where I'm in the studio or outside with the fans doing the forecast.
[00:40:13]  But certainly it has been quite a trip up until this point.
[00:40:19]  Well, I mean, I just think part of it is cable news in general.
[00:40:22]  It's just a bizarre world.
[00:40:24]  I mean, I would say Fox maybe less than some of the other places, but it attracts a lot of strange, small people.
[00:40:31]  I didn't think Fox was really full of strange, small people, but I've met enough in the cable news industry to say that.
[00:40:37]  I think Fox is sort of an island.
[00:40:39]  Unto itself.
[00:40:40]  And 90% of my experiences there were very positive and 10% were extremely negative.
[00:40:46]  Well, can I ask?
[00:40:47]  But that's, you know, not a terrible ratio for any job.
[00:40:50]  I feel that the people that were hired at Fox were not your quintessential anchors either.
[00:40:55]  You know, you look like a Sean Hannity who was, you know, a construction worker.
[00:41:00]  You know, Roger never asked me for my resume, basically.
[00:41:04]  It was like you met with him, he either liked you or not.
[00:41:07]  I think I told him that I quit college after four months because I wasn't.
[00:41:12]  Doing what I love to do.
[00:41:13]  And he was like, Oh, I like that about you.
[00:41:15]  That's the best thing you could have done.
[00:41:17]  Quit college.
[00:41:17]  You know, I think we were all sort of like misfit toys a little bit.
[00:41:21]  That's right.
[00:41:22]  Right.
[00:41:23]  And a lot of us still are.
[00:41:25]  And that was sort of the beauty of Fox is that we weren't kind of hired in the traditional way.
[00:41:30]  It was sort of like, I like her.
[00:41:32]  She's spunky.
[00:41:33]  Or I like this guy because he, you know, he came from nothing.
[00:41:38]  And that's what kind of built that foundation of Fox.
[00:41:41]  It wasn't the traditional love.
[00:41:43]  You give a resume, you have an agent, you go meet them, they look at your tape.
[00:41:47]  Not at all.
[00:41:48]  No one ever looks at your tape.
[00:41:49]  No, I remember when Roger offered me the primetime role and he offered me a big raise.
[00:41:54]  And I remember saying, This is unbelievable.
[00:41:56]  I would do this for free.
[00:41:57]  I can't believe he was giving me a big raise.
[00:41:59]  Like, I love my job so much.
[00:42:02]  And then, like, three months into my role in primetime, I was like, I said Santa Claus is white and everybody lost their mind.
[00:42:10]  I was actually only repeating something a Black woman had said, but I agreed with her that.
[00:42:13]  The commercial depiction of Santa Claus was white, and people lost their minds.
[00:42:16]  And there were so many negative articles written.
[00:42:18]  And I was like, What the hell is going on?
[00:42:20]  Oh, wait, now I know why they give you all the money.
[00:42:22]  I figured out why they give you all the money.
[00:42:24]  No sane person would do this for a living without getting their pocket lined, at least.
[00:42:31]  You know, it's just a daily barrage of negativity and fighting.
[00:42:36]  And you're like, Why am I doing this again?
[00:42:39]  Remember how nice the afternoon show was?
[00:42:42]  I know.
[00:42:42]  Look at Tucker.
[00:42:43]  Man, I see him every day, and he's doing great work.
[00:42:46]  And I feel for him because, you know, he's got to have security and he worries about his family.
[00:42:51]  You know, people like to think, oh, the big anchor man making so much money and like fame and fortune.
[00:42:58]  You know, he worries about his family and the safety of his family, you know?
[00:43:03]  Oh, yeah.
[00:43:04]  I mean, he and I had a long talk when I was leaving Fox and he was moving into the prime time.
[00:43:11]  And I almost felt, I told him, you know, about my reservations about the job and the lifestyle.
[00:43:18]  And I almost felt, Bad.
[00:43:20]  You know, like he was happy and excited.
[00:43:22]  And I almost felt like I'm going to pass you this baton, but this baton may be covered in asbestos and just like bus exhaust and, you know, other things that you really don't want to touch and you don't want around you and you don't want to breathe in.

=== Why We Need Honest Media (02:23) ===

[00:43:36]  So, like, be careful.
[00:43:37]  Put on the gas mask, put on the rubber gloves, go do it in a hazmat suit, but do it because you'll be good at it.
[00:43:44]  And he is.
[00:43:45]  But I do feel for him now because I see them, you know, of course, all the left wing will tell you that Tucker is a white supremacist.
[00:43:52]  And it's like, this is what they do.
[00:43:55]  If you take any rhetorical risks at all, especially on dicey subjects like race, where you don't go along perfectly with what the left wants you to say, they'll demonize you.
[00:44:04]  Tucker is extremely effective at what he does.
[00:44:06]  He's not always ginger about the way he approaches tough issues.
[00:44:11]  But cable news is just a brutal landscape.
[00:44:14]  And, you know, the funny thing is, JD, when I left, I took all the furniture out of my office, you know, as I was required to.
[00:44:21]  I took all my stuff and I left one thing and it was a sign hanging on my wall that read, you don't have to be crazy to work here.
[00:44:32]  We have on-the-job training.
[00:44:37]  Well, this is why I love what you're doing now.
[00:44:40]  It's because I feel like we are at a great need for this kind of media, this kind of discussion.
[00:44:46]  Because you only have, when I'm on Tucker's show, I get three and a half minutes to sort of like, oh, the governor, here's what he did, boop, boop, boop, boop, break.
[00:44:53]  You know, yeah, you're right.
[00:44:55]  But it's so great that you have time to talk.
[00:44:58]  You're able to like have thoughtful conversations back and forth.
[00:45:01]  And this, I think, you know, the podcast, especially in the time of COVID, I will tell you that.
[00:45:07]  Your podcast has actually helped me lose weight.
[00:45:11]  Really?
[00:45:12]  Yes, because I realized because I did gain the COVID at least 19.
[00:45:18]  The COVID 19?
[00:45:20]  Not quite 19, but close.
[00:45:21]  And then I thought, you know what?
[00:45:23]  For my family's sake, I've got to take care of myself.
[00:45:25]  I'm going to start to walk.
[00:45:27]  And I needed things to listen to.
[00:45:29]  And I was so grateful when your podcast came along because I would just keep walking.
[00:45:34]  I mean, Steve Crowder, your interview was three hours.
[00:45:37]  So I'm like, Oh, I'm just going to keep on walking for three hours.
[00:45:41]  So, but my point is, I love that, you know, you're immersed in this conversation that's very thoughtful and it's not like, boom, you're out or rap, we got a commercial.
[00:45:51]  Yes, I love it too.
[00:45:52]  And I'll tell you, and I do love the fact that you can inject humor in, you know, in a way that you really, it's hard to do on cable news.

=== Walking Through A Pandemic Season (02:48) ===

[00:45:59]  I tried.
[00:45:59]  I mean, I remember one night the New York Times was there covering my show and it was a tough news night.
[00:46:05]  I mean, it was brutal, the news that day.
[00:46:07]  And the reporter asked, like, How would you describe that hour?
[00:46:11]  And I said, Well, we talked about terrorism, we talked about ISIS, and we had a lot of laughs.
[00:46:18]  And if you can find a way to do that when you only have 42 minutes, that's the show without the commercials, then good on you.
[00:46:25]  But it's just so much easier to have a natural flow of conversation that sometimes is happy, sometimes is sad, sometimes is infuriating.
[00:46:31]  You cover all the emotions in this forum, and it's not just outrage, as cable news is.
[00:46:40]  More with JD in one second, but first, This holiday season, more people will be mailing stuff than ever before.
[00:46:47]  You know that.
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[00:47:40]  You simply use your computer to print official U.S. postage 24-7 for any letter, any package, any class of mail, anywhere you want to send it.
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[00:48:03]  Don't spend a minute of your holiday season at the post office.
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[00:48:07]  You know that.
[00:48:08]  They're fine, but it's not pleasant.
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[00:48:32]  Back to JD in one second.
[00:48:33]  But first, I want to bring you this feature that we call You can't say that.
[00:48:37]  The full name in my head is You Can't Say That or Do That or Think That.
[00:48:40]  Oh, wait, this is America.
[00:48:42]  The latest edition for you today is about words I'm going to say that may get me in trouble.

=== Avoiding The Busy Post Office (15:37) ===

[00:48:47]  You ready?
[00:48:49]  Insane.
[00:48:50]  Crazy.
[00:48:51]  Nuts.
[00:48:52]  That's right.
[00:48:53]  The word police, better known as the Associated Press Stylebook, has just deemed those words derogatory.
[00:48:59]  Yes, you're a bad person now if you say crazy.
[00:49:03]  The Associated Press makes the grammar rules that basically press people are supposed to follow if we want to be good people.
[00:49:09]  In writing our articles or for news anchors to say on the air.
[00:49:13]  And in a tweet yesterday, the AP let us all know that, you know, what you could say on Monday and be a good person, you can no longer say on Tuesday if you want to be a good person, because those terms are, quote, derogatory.
[00:49:24]  They said, such as insane, crazy, crazed, nuts, or deranged, telling writers not to use these words unless they are part of a quotation that is essential to the story.
[00:49:35]  So that's insane.
[00:49:36]  And I have heard your offer, AP, and I refuse.
[00:49:40]  I reject it.
[00:49:41]  I think it's crazy.
[00:49:42]  I think it's nuts.
[00:49:43]  I think it's moronic.
[00:49:44]  And I'm going to let that be my last word on the matter.
[00:49:48]  Okay.
[00:49:49]  That officially was our segment.
[00:49:51]  You can't say that.
[00:49:51]  Back to Janice.
[00:49:52]  And I just want to tell you this is what I would refer to as the me too section of our interview.
[00:49:57]  And it's very, very personal and it gets kind of emotional.
[00:50:01]  So I just kind of want to give you a little listener warning on that.
[00:50:04]  It's tough.
[00:50:04]  These subjects are tough.
[00:50:06]  Janice has been through it and I've been through it.
[00:50:08]  And the two of us kind of held hands and went through it together when it happened at Fox.
[00:50:13]  And this is the very first time she and I will ever have spoken about this publicly.
[00:50:18]  We've had a lot of private talks about it.
[00:50:20]  But when I wrote my book, which talked about my story at Fox, she was not yet outed herself as a participant in that whole thing.
[00:50:28]  And when she wrote her book, I was not yet on the air.
[00:50:32]  I was not on the air.
[00:50:33]  I was in between jobs.
[00:50:34]  So I didn't get to talk to her about it.
[00:50:36]  I remember watching her on all these shows thinking, they're not asking her the right stuff.
[00:50:38]  They're not getting her to talk about the right things.
[00:50:41]  She and the women of Fox News, not me, not Gretchen, she and the women of Fox News. who had everything to lose are the real heroes of that story.
[00:50:50]  They're the ones who risked everything.
[00:50:52]  I think you're going to hear some details about the story that you've never heard before.
[00:50:56]  And that may prove helpful to some people out there who are still struggling with this right now.
[00:51:02]  So without further ado, back to JD.
[00:51:08]  I want to talk about television.
[00:51:11]  Before I get to that, though, let's talk about radio because you mentioned your background is in radio.
[00:51:14]  Janice is from Canada.
[00:51:16]  She was always incredibly beautiful.
[00:51:18]  Your throwback Thursday pictures, I always look forward to them.
[00:51:20]  I'm like, she was always gorgeous.
[00:51:23]  Like, what the hell?
[00:51:24]  You didn't even have a damn awkward face.
[00:51:26]  You always had that million dollar smile.
[00:51:28]  You always had perfect hair.
[00:51:29]  You're always nice and tall.
[00:51:31]  And then I learned from your book that you used to be a dog catcher for some of those years.
[00:51:36]  Not for very long.
[00:51:38]  But yeah, I was one of those kids, and I think you were probably too.
[00:51:43]  I always wanted to work.
[00:51:44]  Like, right when I was like 10 years old, I would go to my dad and say, When can I work?
[00:51:47]  When can I make money?
[00:51:48]  When I, you know, I really want to get out there.
[00:51:51]  And I had lots of odd jobs.
[00:51:53]  And there was one particular summer when I was in high school that I applied for a job at City Hall, at Ottawa City Hall, which is where I grew up, I was born in Toronto.
[00:52:05]  And they were looking for kind of like help, secretary help, you know, filing and taking phone calls and that kind of thing for the bylaw department.
[00:52:16]  And the bylaw department is basically all the jobs that the police officers don't want to do.
[00:52:21]  So you go, you know, you log calls from people saying, my next door neighbor's grass is too long or his dog is barking.
[00:52:28]  So you take those calls all day long and you write them up.
[00:52:31]  And, you know, the bylaw enforcement officer will go out and if he hears that dog barking, he's going to issue a ticket.
[00:52:39]  There were building codes, like you had to go out.
[00:52:41]  She's got pictures of herself, by the way, in sort of the security uniform.
[00:52:45]  The bylaws.
[00:52:47]  Checking out the situation with the barking dog.
[00:52:50]  I did that job for several summers, but I wasn't in the outfit.
[00:52:54]  I was just taking the phone calls and logging the calls.
[00:52:57]  And then when I decided that I was going to quit university, that I was going to, you know, I was journalism.
[00:53:02]  I was taking journalism.
[00:53:03]  It was five years.
[00:53:04]  And, you know, three months in, I was like, when do I get to be on camera?
[00:53:07]  And they're like, fifth year.
[00:53:08]  I'm like, I'm out of here.
[00:53:10]  So, I quit and I went back and I didn't, you know, my parents were very upset with me, but I was like, I'm going to work.
[00:53:17]  I'm going to, you know, I had a job at a clothing store, at a men's clothing store for a while.
[00:53:21]  And I went back to City Hall and I said, Listen, I quit school.
[00:53:25]  Can you guys, like, can I, is there any opportunities with the bylaw department?
[00:53:29]  They're like, suit up.
[00:53:32]  So I was the one that called out the, did the calls to the bylaw officer, like bylaw based to car 16.
[00:53:39]  We have a 1046 on the loose.
[00:53:41]  So I was doing that.
[00:53:42]  And actually, the people I worked with said, That's how your job in radio began, is being the bylaw enforcement dispatcher.
[00:53:49]  Ah, right.
[00:53:50]  You were dispatch.
[00:53:51]  Absolutely.
[00:53:52]  I loved it.
[00:53:53]  Oh, we would always joke, like we would make, you know, kind of like, you know, you couldn't say stuff on the radio, but we would kind of like sneak things in that were kind of like suggestive and stuff.
[00:54:02]  It was a crazy world back then.
[00:54:05]  I think this is how my TV career began for me on the aerobics stage, because I used to be a diehard aerobics teacher.
[00:54:11]  Like, you know, there's something about it, right?
[00:54:13]  You enjoy the performance, you enjoy, In that case, barking at people.
[00:54:16]  People might say, I still do that.
[00:54:18]  But right.
[00:54:19]  And then there you were, parallel up in Canada, working on a similar track.
[00:54:24]  And all of that wound you up eventually sitting next to Don Imus, who at the time, with either the exception of Howard Stern or not, depending on how you see those two and their radio careers when they were up against each other, was the biggest radio star in the country.
[00:54:42]  Again, Howard is like, what?
[00:54:44]  And you.
[00:54:47]  You did not have a very favorable experience with him.
[00:54:51]  That's an understatement.
[00:54:52]  And it took me a long time to be able to talk about it.
[00:54:56]  And I wrote about it in the book that came out last year, two years ago, mostly Sunny.
[00:55:01]  I was working at a radio station for several years in Ottawa, a classic rock station, and fell in love with a boy and followed him to Houston.
[00:55:11]  Lived in Houston for a couple of years.
[00:55:13]  I always did radio and television on the side.
[00:55:15]  So radio was my primary love and my primary.
[00:55:18]  You know, job and the television stuff was always like, you know, I did weather and I did traffic on some of the local channels.
[00:55:25]  Anyway, something happened in Houston a situation where I was someone broke into my apartment at night in Houston and robbed me and assaulted me.
[00:55:39]  And he, you know, got out of the apartment.
[00:55:44]  But obviously, that was a huge moment in my life that made me think.
[00:55:49]  I got to do something different.
[00:55:50]  I don't want to live in Houston anymore.
[00:55:52]  I don't feel safe.
[00:55:53]  I went back to Ottawa for less than a year and I was working at the local radio station.
[00:55:59]  And I have dual citizenship.
[00:56:00]  So my father was American and I was able to get my dual citizenship.
[00:56:05]  And I'm very blessed to have that.
[00:56:08]  And one of my coworkers came over and said, JD, you'd be really good at this job.
[00:56:12]  And I looked at it and it said, you know, entertainment reporter for Don Imus in New York.
[00:56:18]  I was like, what?
[00:56:20]  Why do you think I'd be good at this?
[00:56:22]  He's like, well, look at it.
[00:56:23]  You know, you've done all those jobs.
[00:56:26]  You were a jock on the radio, you've done television, you've done news.
[00:56:29]  I mean, this is right up your alley.
[00:56:31]  You have dual citizenship.
[00:56:33]  I thought, you know what?
[00:56:34]  Okay, I'll send him my tape and my resume.
[00:56:37]  Never in a million years thinking that I would get a call back.
[00:56:40]  And I got a call back, and it was the program director of WFAN.
[00:56:44]  And he said, I liked your resume.
[00:56:47]  When can you get here?
[00:56:48]  You know, we'll interview you.
[00:56:49]  He didn't say, We're going to fly you there, or, you know, here's your transportation.
[00:56:53]  I had to drive myself to New York, Astoria, Astoria, Queens.
[00:56:58]  And I interviewed, and Imus wasn't there the first day.
[00:57:02]  He was at his ranch in New Mexico, which is what he did in the summertime.
[00:57:07]  But I sat there with the gal that was leaving, Christy Muzumechi, and she kind of like said, Why do you want this job?
[00:57:15]  Like, you know, she's like, well, you're like, it's my dream.
[00:57:19]  What do you mean?
[00:57:20]  It's New York City.
[00:57:21]  Oh my goodness.
[00:57:22]  You know, meanwhile, we're in the basement of like, you know, Kaufman Astoria Studios.
[00:57:26]  It wasn't long after that, when I, you know, when Imus was in the studio, that I realized this was probably the worst job of my career.
[00:57:35]  And yeah, so just tell us why.
[00:57:37]  Like, what did he do to you?
[00:57:41]  He was extraordinarily mean.
[00:57:43]  He, well, here's the thing.
[00:57:45]  He was very good at manipulation.
[00:57:47]  So he, at certain times, he'd be like, oh, doing a good job.
[00:57:52]  Like he would, he would like throw that in once in a while, just when you were like off the edge of like wanting to like, you know, like run away and hide or move back to Canada.
[00:58:02]  And I knew from the other guys that I was, you know, that I was working with that I was doing a good job when I would go in and I would deliver and, you know, try to make him laugh or, but he was very cruel, you know, right away it was sort of, Told, like, don't look at him when he walks in.
[00:58:17]  He had always had a gun, so he had a loaded gun with him.
[00:58:20]  He was able to bring a gun into work every single day.
[00:58:24]  He said it was for protection, but he would like, he would come out sometimes, and you know, the traffic reporter would be sitting, you know, their back would be to the studio, and he would come out with the gun and point it like at the traffic reporter's head and like think that was funny.
[00:58:41]  There were times where he would sit there and take the bullets out of his gun and name the bullets after us.
[00:58:46]  This one's for Bernie, this one's for Sid, Janice.
[00:58:49]  Um, he would call me dumb, stupid, fat.
[00:58:54]  There was one time where he, the most terrible time I remember, was he brought me in one time.
[00:59:00]  Do you know, remember Denise Austin?
[00:59:02]  Remember the exercise lady?
[00:59:04]  So she used to come on with that.
[00:59:05]  I told you I was an aerobics instructor.
[00:59:07]  I mean, you should.
[00:59:08]  She's right up there.
[00:59:10]  This is your lane.
[00:59:11]  Ironically, Jane Fonda was another inspiration, but that didn't end well.
[00:59:17]  Fine by me.
[00:59:18]  Totally fine by me.
[00:59:19]  She won't be appearing on your show anytime.
[00:59:21]  She will not.
[00:59:22]  No, no, which is a okay.
[00:59:25]  Okay, keep going.
[00:59:26]  So, oh, yeah.
[00:59:28]  Oh, yeah, she said she would come on.
[00:59:29]  Maybe, what do you guys think?
[00:59:30]  Let me know if you think I should interview her.
[00:59:31]  I think it's going to be a little awkward.
[00:59:33]  Absolutely.
[00:59:34]  Absolutely.
[00:59:34]  I think I would love to hear an interview with Jane.
[00:59:37]  You should.
[00:59:37]  I mean, why not?
[00:59:38]  Why not?
[00:59:39]  I would love to finish the conversation and say, Jane, let's talk.
[00:59:42]  I think your plastic surgery looks amazing.
[00:59:45]  You look great.
[00:59:46]  I just wanted to know why, you know, like you're talking about starting a movie about old people and you're talking about being real and like you've talked about it 50,000 times with everybody else.
[00:59:55]  So I want to ask a question.
[00:59:56]  Anyway, memory lane.
[00:59:58]  Yeah.
[00:59:59]  I mean, listen, I would listen to that interview.
[01:00:01]  There's a lot of people I think you should interview.
[01:00:04]  I'm not going to interview Deborah Messing and I don't care what you say.
[01:00:07]  Oh, I agree with you.
[01:00:09]  She's not a nice person.
[01:00:10]  She's too hateful.
[01:00:11]  She hates everybody on the right.
[01:00:14]  I feel bad for her.
[01:00:15]  I actually feel bad for her and Soledad O'Brien.
[01:00:18]  I feel like anybody that's that vicious on social media must have like a terrible life.
[01:00:22]  Like, why?
[01:00:23]  That's true.
[01:00:23]  Why are you like this?
[01:00:24]  Oh, she's angry again.
[01:00:27]  Oh, what a shock.
[01:00:30]  Okay, sorry.
[01:00:31]  Keep going.
[01:00:31]  Denise Austin.
[01:00:32]  Oh, Denise Austin.
[01:00:33]  So, this is the time where I'm thinking to myself, oh, I got to get out of this job.
[01:00:36]  This is a terrible job.
[01:00:37]  Because he really, every day, he would just Call you a new name, but there was one day where he summoned me into the studio and she was in the studio.
[01:00:47]  He was like, They were on, I mean, they were simulcast on FAN and uh MSNBC, so this was on television, right?
[01:00:56]  And that's right because he brought his show over to Fox Business, but he was on MSNBC before that.
[01:01:02]  That was before he made that comment about the female basketball players that ended his time there.
[01:01:07]  Okay, yeah, go ahead.
[01:01:08]  So, uh, he made me stand up.
[01:01:13]  And said, Denise, she's got to get a boyfriend.
[01:01:16]  Like, she needs to lose a lot of weight.
[01:01:18]  So, look at her thighs and look at her backside.
[01:01:21]  And what can we do for her?
[01:01:22]  She's got a little bit, you know, she needs more.
[01:01:25]  It was devastating.
[01:01:27]  I was like, you know, I'm somebody that struggled with my weight my whole entire life.
[01:01:32]  And, you know, I have a better outlook now.
[01:01:36]  But, you know, at the time, you know, it was certainly bringing up all of these old wounds where he is like tearing me down for my appearance and, you know, having to try to lose weight.
[01:01:47]  Yes, and on television.
[01:01:49]  And she was like, Oh, I was like, but I'm well within the guidelines of Weight Watchers.
[01:01:54]  I remember saying that.
[01:01:56]  I was just like devastated.
[01:01:57]  And yeah, so I knew that that was sort of the beginning of the day.
[01:02:02]  Did she say, I miss, you're being so inappropriate.
[01:02:06]  No, no.
[01:02:06]  Denise, she made you.
[01:02:08]  I mean, she tried to sort of like make it funny.
[01:02:11]  I think we were all like, everybody's jaw dropped.
[01:02:14]  But I will tell you, you know, he recently died.
[01:02:19]  And I've had a lot of time to sort of reflect on the relationship with him.
[01:02:23]  And when I came to Fox, by the way, that was one thing I was very adamant about is when he came over and everyone knew, because I told everyone, I'm like, oh, he was terrible to me.
[01:02:33]  I told Bill Shine that under no circumstances would I ever do weather on Imus's show.
[01:02:41]  I don't care if there's a category five coming down on New York City.
[01:02:45]  There is no way I will ever.
[01:02:47]  And they were good with that.
[01:02:48]  They were good.
[01:02:48]  There was a time where I remember one producer.
[01:02:51]  There was a hurricane, and they were like, Janice, Dean, can you do a weather report on it?
[01:02:54]  I was like, no.
[01:02:57]  See clause number four on my contract.
[01:03:01]  That's right.
[01:03:01]  Zero.
[01:03:02]  That's where Rick Reichmuth comes in to save the day.
[01:03:04]  That's right.
[01:03:05]  That was, that was, but I always envisioned myself, I always thought to myself, if one day he called me and said, Janice, can you come talk to me in my office?
[01:03:16]  I just want to talk to you.
[01:03:18]  I always sort of envisioned him like apologizing.
[01:03:21]  And I would have accepted the apology.
[01:03:23]  I would have.
[01:03:24]  I would have accepted it.
[01:03:26]  I believe that.
[01:03:27]  But he didn't, obviously.
[01:03:30]  And he died last year.
[01:03:31]  And I remember being very conflicted, obviously, because I was seeing all of these things on social media.
[01:03:37]  We were in the Broadcasting Hall of Fame, like the amazing, blah, blah, blah.
[01:03:41]  And I went on, I was like, all of these things can be true that he can be an award winning broadcaster.
[01:03:48]  He helped a lot of kids with cancer.
[01:03:49]  He helped a lot of kids with cancer.
[01:03:52]  But he can also be somebody who was very abusive and very cruel.
[01:03:57]  And all of these things can be the same person.
[01:04:00]  And it wasn't long after that that I got an email.
[01:04:04]  From a relative of his, very close relative of his.
[01:04:08]  And she emailed me and said, I got your email from so and so, and I just want to tell you, I believe you.
[01:04:17]  I believe all of the things that he did to you because he was that person.
[01:04:22]  He was very cruel.

=== Surviving An Abusive Boss (15:19) ===

[01:04:25]  And I experienced it.
[01:04:27]  And it made up for never getting that apology from him to hear from somebody very close to him that gave me the acknowledgement.
[01:04:39]  That he treated me terribly.
[01:04:41]  So I was grateful.
[01:04:42]  I was grateful for that.
[01:04:44]  The fact that this can still bring you to tears 20 years after it happened is why Sean says, or he used to say, God help Don Imus if I ever see him in the street.
[01:04:57]  You know, like he hurt you in a particularly vicious way.
[01:05:01]  And it's bullying.
[01:05:03]  I mean, that's what he bullied you.
[01:05:05]  And bullying, you know, it does have a real effect.
[01:05:09]  And it's, It can make you stronger for sure, but it doesn't mean it is incredibly painful to go through.
[01:05:16]  Absolutely.
[01:05:17]  Even, you know, even in my mid 30s.
[01:05:21]  But I will say also, on the mostly sunny side, if it wasn't for the IMA's job, I would have never met Sean.
[01:05:28]  I would have never had my beautiful children.
[01:05:31]  So I am grateful for that opportunity.
[01:05:35]  And I am grateful that I got that job because it did lead me to more beautiful destinations, you know?
[01:05:42]  So, well, well, and that, but.
[01:05:44]  Of course, is it ironic?
[01:05:46]  I'm not sure if that's the right word.
[01:05:49]  You were rescued from your IMA's job by Roger Ailes, who, you know, can I just set this up?
[01:05:55]  Because, yes, I think by this point in our society, most people know that Roger Ailes was the CEO and founder of Fox News and that he was his career ended at Fox after an incredibly successful run by a group of women there who spoke up about his sexual harassment.
[01:06:14]  Of them and I think most people understand that Gretchen Carlson was the person to file a lawsuit that got that rolling, that I stood up and supported the notion basically by telling my own story um, but I think less people know what an important role in that you played.
[01:06:32]  And even just saying important role, I paused a little because it brings up so many feelings for people I know, like the Me Too movement which I don't this was before the Me Too movement um, it's gone to such a strange place where people it's just it's turned into it turned a little witch hunty that I don't really want to even associate this experience with where that movement wound up.
[01:06:56]  I thought it did a lot of good for a while and now it's just different.
[01:06:59]  Um, but what you did, what you did, was incredibly brave.
[01:07:07]  When Roger was under fire, I always tell people like, for a long time I wasn't allowed to talk about your role in it because you didn't want it public and I understood that and I didn't want my role public either.
[01:07:19]  It was to drudge.
[01:07:21]  And I still don't know by whom.
[01:07:23]  To this moment, I have three suspects, but I don't know who did it.
[01:07:28]  But you managed to dodge that bullet.
[01:07:29]  And I wasn't going to out you, obviously.
[01:07:31]  But I always kind of wanted to because people are like, oh, you know, women, mostly women would say to me, oh, you're very brave, you know, very brave.
[01:07:39]  And I'm like, it's not about me.
[01:07:41]  It's about people like my friend who didn't have power, who did not have money in the bank, who might have been married to a firefighter.
[01:07:50]  who risked everything.
[01:07:52]  I just want the audience to know Janice Dean, she's the weather woman.
[01:07:56]  We haven't even gotten into the fact that not long before the Roger Ailes thing happened, a couple years earlier, she'd been diagnosed with MS. And we're talking about lesions on your brain a couple of years prior to this, and your health insurance and your babes.
[01:08:11]  And you already have worries about Sean having spent so much time at ground zero and what health effects this may have.
[01:08:17]  You're dealing with all of that.
[01:08:19]  Roger, you got, you know, he's your boss.
[01:08:22]  He's going to keep you employed.
[01:08:23]  That's one thing about Fox, they very rarely fire you.
[01:08:27]  You have health insurance, like you have a steady situation there.
[01:08:30]  And as we talked about earlier, it is very family like in large part.
[01:08:34]  You know, there's a lot of great people there who we both loved.
[01:08:37]  And The question gets asked because of Gretchen's lawsuit.
[01:08:42]  Could he be this thing?
[01:08:45]  Could this be a man who is abusing his power and abusing his staff and hurting people?
[01:08:52]  And the vast majority of people said, I'm not touching this, right?
[01:08:57]  Like, I mean, I still think we know people that it did happen to.
[01:09:00]  We ultimately would find out later who did not come forward because it was scary.
[01:09:04]  It was damn scary.
[01:09:06]  But you know who did?
[01:09:07]  Janice Dean, the meteorologist who.
[01:09:11]  damn well needed that job and that insurance.
[01:09:14]  And I will never forget, Janice, the night before you went in to talk to Paul Weiss, how scared you were.
[01:09:21]  You had a panic attack.
[01:09:23]  You broke out in hives.
[01:09:24]  It was, but you went.
[01:09:27]  You did it.
[01:09:28]  You went in there the next day.
[01:09:31]  And I think, I do believe as difficult as that situation was and as complicated as it was and the love we also felt for Roger.
[01:09:39]  I mean, at the same time, it was so hard.
[01:09:41]  I still think That day and that experience and what you did changed the world.
[01:09:50]  I really believe that.
[01:09:52]  I think it saved a lot of women.
[01:09:56]  We were in it together.
[01:09:58]  I mean, that's how I thought of it.
[01:10:01]  But yes, before I went into Paul Weiss, I remember it well.
[01:10:05]  It was, we make a funny situation out of it because I was riding the Long Island Railroad home and I, you know, Thought again about it.
[01:10:16]  I was like, I can't do this.
[01:10:17]  I'm too worried.
[01:10:18]  I'm worried about my family.
[01:10:19]  I'm worried about my kids.
[01:10:20]  I actually thought I was going to be fired.
[01:10:22]  Like, I thought Roger's never going to go.
[01:10:25]  It's never going to happen.
[01:10:26]  Gretchen's never going to go.
[01:10:27]  None of us believed he was going to get fired.
[01:10:28]  No one.
[01:10:29]  None of us believed it.
[01:10:30]  And I remember being on the Long Island Railroad and saying, Nope, I just can't do it.
[01:10:34]  I can't risk it.
[01:10:35]  I can't risk my kids and all of the things that you said.
[01:10:39]  And I got home and I said to Sean, I was like, I can't go in there.
[01:10:45]  I can't tell them.
[01:10:46]  I'm I'm too afraid, Sean.
[01:10:47]  I'm too afraid he's going to find out.
[01:10:49]  I'm going to be fired.
[01:10:50]  And it was Sean, you know, Sean, who is so steadfast.
[01:10:55]  He just looked at me and he said, You have to do it.
[01:10:59]  We'll deal with whatever happens.
[01:11:01]  You have to go in and do it.
[01:11:03]  And that was the first night I've ever had a panic attack.
[01:11:06]  And I mean, I did.
[01:11:09]  I broke out and I've got pictures because I've never had anything like that happen before.
[01:11:14]  And I remember calling you and at like 12 o'clock midnight and just hearing your voice and just saying, You know what?
[01:11:22]  We're on the side of the angels.
[01:11:24]  If he's not guilty, then he has nothing to fear.
[01:11:29]  But you have to go in and tell your story.
[01:11:31]  You have to.
[01:11:32]  And don't ever ride the Long Island Railroad again because it just makes you depressed.
[01:11:37]  The Long Island Railroad is depressing.
[01:11:41]  Well, you said, I'll pay for your car.
[01:11:45]  Do you need a car service?
[01:11:47]  You're not riding the train in to go talk to Paul Weiss?
[01:11:51]  No.
[01:11:51]  Oh, God.
[01:11:52]  You need a car service.
[01:11:52]  Need to go in his style.
[01:11:54]  We got to sort of the middle of the story before we gave you the beginning of the story, which is back after she left Imus.
[01:12:00]  And so Janice winds up getting an opportunity to interview with Fox News.
[01:12:05]  And as you understand from the story she told, a welcome opportunity.
[01:12:10]  Not only is it obviously a bigger job, but she wanted to get out.
[01:12:13]  And Fox News was number one and it was a great chance.
[01:12:18]  And she met Roger and ultimately he did hire her and she's had a great career there.
[01:12:23]  But it was a bit of a bumpy beginning.
[01:12:27]  And I didn't know this story about her until I'd known her for years.
[01:12:31]  So one day we wound up sharing stories.
[01:12:33]  But just tell them what happened between you and Roger.
[01:12:36]  So, the first meeting was in his office.
[01:12:40]  And again, it was one of those situations where, you know, he was like, Oh, I hear you on IMAS.
[01:12:45]  You sound kind of like a naughty girl.
[01:12:46]  Because I mean, I did the scum report and it was, you know, it had to be pretty sometimes provocative.
[01:12:52]  And, you know, so he used that as sort of like the intro of, Are you a naughty girl?
[01:12:58]  You certainly sound like it.
[01:12:59]  And I was like, No, I'm actually a good actress.
[01:13:04]  But I told him, I was like, Listen, he's really cruel.
[01:13:07]  And I'm, Going to be flat out honest.
[01:13:10]  I need to find another job because otherwise I have to move.
[01:13:13]  I can't, I will not do this job anymore.
[01:13:17]  And so it was fine.
[01:13:19]  It was a fine meeting.
[01:13:20]  He again asked me about school.
[01:13:21]  I don't think, you know, he never asked me what my politics were.
[01:13:24]  He did ask me, you know, have you heard about me?
[01:13:27]  Like, what have you learned about Fox News?
[01:13:28]  And I remember reading an article, a long article about Roger that had been out at the time.
[01:13:36]  So I had, you know, I educated myself on him and this empire that he had built.
[01:13:41]  So I was able to answer those questions.
[01:13:43]  And amazing.
[01:13:44]  What an amazing job from a ditch digger in Ohio to the most powerful name in cable news.
[01:13:50]  And so it was fine.
[01:13:51]  That's what the magazines had.
[01:13:53]  They had him on the cover with the caption, the most powerful man in news.
[01:13:57]  Yes.
[01:13:58]  So you got to picture Janice and then soon, I don't know if it was before or after, but me in there as young cub reporters across from not just the CEO and chairman and founder of Fox, which is number one, but literally the most powerful man in all of news.
[01:14:16]  The i.e., not someone who you want to cross or get on the wrong side of.
[01:14:20]  Go ahead.
[01:14:21]  Absolutely.
[01:14:22]  And listen, he was very charming and body and funny.
[01:14:25]  And, you know, there was something about him that was, you know, that very, you know, and father like as well.
[01:14:33]  All of those things.
[01:14:34]  And as we said, neither one of us is somebody who's, I mean, I'm body too.
[01:14:37]  I don't, that doesn't bother me at all.
[01:14:39]  I actually find it funny most of the time.
[01:14:41]  Like, I'm not in no way are you or, it's hard to say, neither you nor I am uptight.
[01:14:49]  In any way, right, and you have to understand that too being in this business, I mean, I was coming from the Imus job, but I had dealt with sexual harassment my whole career.
[01:15:00]  I mean, truly, like in varying degrees, you're walking this weird line of like laughing at these crazy jokes.
[01:15:07]  Is he like hitting on me?
[01:15:09]  And he's my boss, and how do I, you know?
[01:15:12]  So, I already had like some, you know, I'd experienced something like this before, and I always, yeah, now it's like it's another old guy trying to hit on me, been there, absolutely.
[01:15:22]  Absolutely.
[01:15:23]  So, but at the time, I also had Sean.
[01:15:25]  So I had a boyfriend, you know, I was able to pull the boyfriend card.
[01:15:30]  And so there was that interview.
[01:15:34]  Then the second time was I got a call from his secretary saying, Mr. Ailes would like to meet you in the restaurant bar area of the Renaissance Hotel in Times Square.
[01:15:47]  I was like, okay, that's a little bizarre.
[01:15:51]  I talked to my agent at the time, who was a female, and she's like, oh, he just wants to meet you off campus.
[01:15:56]  No biggie.
[01:15:59]  So I, you know, and at the time, I don't know, I think you and I have talked about this, but at the time, I wore like business suits.
[01:16:06]  All the time, like, like, you know, the boxing Hillary Clinton.
[01:16:10]  We were at our frumpiest, wouldn't you say?
[01:16:12]  We hadn't been foxified yet.
[01:16:13]  We were at our frumpiest.
[01:16:15]  We didn't know how to dress.
[01:16:15]  We didn't know how to do our makeup.
[01:16:17]  It was nothing.
[01:16:18]  I had, like, you know, my hair was, anyway, I was not the most, you know, I think you could tell that I had, like, you know, some potential.
[01:16:27]  I went to the meeting and he was, he got there and we sat at a table and he told me, order wine.
[01:16:33]  You know, do you want to drink?
[01:16:34]  And I was like, okay, I guess, I guess I'll have a glass of wine.
[01:16:38]  And he ordered the same.
[01:16:40]  And I remember him asking me how I was doing and if I was thinking about him, not about a job, but was I thinking about Roger?
[01:16:49]  And I was like, well, I was thinking that you might be a good boss someday.
[01:16:56]  I remember you told me this later when he was like, I need to know how you see me.
[01:17:00]  How do you see me?
[01:17:01]  And you were like, like a teacher, like a mentor, like a father figure?
[01:17:08]  That's exactly what was happening.
[01:17:10]  Meanwhile, I'm like, nervously sipping wine.
[01:17:14]  But here's a note.
[01:17:15]  Here's like a pro tip for the men out there.
[01:17:17]  If you're trying to hit on somebody and you ask her that question and she says something about father or bail, it's not working.
[01:17:24]  Right.
[01:17:24]  Knock on another door.
[01:17:25]  No.
[01:17:26]  And at that point, I was like, there's no way I'm getting this job.
[01:17:29]  You know, like whatever.
[01:17:31]  Right.
[01:17:31]  This is a come on.
[01:17:32]  This is not an interview.
[01:17:33]  But he did it in a way that it was like a testing thing.
[01:17:36]  Like he was testing me, like how, you know, how far can I take this, you know, without her like, you know, saying something that's going to like shoot me down type of thing.
[01:17:46]  But then all of a sudden, he would get business like again and say, Well, you know, I've been thinking about you and I think you'd be great on television.
[01:17:54]  You know, I'll get back to you.
[01:17:56]  I got to get out of here.
[01:17:57]  And I remember him saying something like, We don't want anybody seeing us together.
[01:18:00]  And I was like, Okay.
[01:18:02]  So he left.
[01:18:05]  And I thought to myself, I'm going to have to move back to Canada.
[01:18:08]  Like, I can't work with IMAs.
[01:18:09]  I'm not going to get this job.
[01:18:11]  And I got a call maybe three or four days later.
[01:18:14]  Again, the secretary calls me.
[01:18:16]  It's Mr. Ailes on the phone.
[01:18:18]  He would like to speak with you.
[01:18:18]  And I was, And I remember where I was, Megan.
[01:18:21]  I was right in the living room of my little tiny apartment in Queens.
[01:18:25]  And he gets on the phone and he was like, Janice Dean.
[01:18:29]  And I was like, hello, Mr. Ailes.
[01:18:31]  And he was like, so what's going on?
[01:18:35]  And I just, oh, how's I miss?
[01:18:37]  And I said, oh, I'm one step away of losing my mind and I have to get out of that job.
[01:18:43]  And then it was sort of this quiet period.
[01:18:45]  And he was like, so I've been wondering how you are at phone sex.
[01:18:51]  And I was like, I'm terrible.
[01:18:55]  I'm terrible at phone sex.
[01:18:58]  This is my favorite part of the whole story.
[01:19:00]  Awesome.
[01:19:01]  I mean, listen, I know we're making a joke out of this.
[01:19:05]  And at the time, I remember at the time going, oh my gosh, I wish I was recording this.
[01:19:10]  This is crazy.
[01:19:11]  What is this person asking me?
[01:19:14]  And I said that.
[01:19:15]  I was like, I was terrible.
[01:19:16]  He's like, I don't believe that.
[01:19:17]  I don't believe that for a second.
[01:19:18]  So pretend you know I'm your boyfriend.
[01:19:20]  How would you talk to your boyfriend?
[01:19:22]  You have a boyfriend, right?
[01:19:23]  Like, how would you talk to him if you were wearing blah, blah, blah?
[01:19:26]  And I was just like, you know what, Mr. Ailes, this is not a 1 900 number.
[01:19:32]  But thanks for calling, type of thing.
[01:19:34]  And then he kind of snapped out of it and he was like, So have you ever done the weather before?
[01:19:39]  Because I'm looking for a weather person and talk to your agent.

=== Pretending To Be His Boyfriend (15:46) ===

[01:19:44]  So that was sort of like, that was the way it was.
[01:19:49]  And I took the job and people were like, Why did you take that job?
[01:19:52]  And I'm like, well, I had another boss who was basically like naming bullets after me.
[01:19:57]  So, yes, you should have refused it.
[01:19:59]  And you should have gone over to CVS and interviewed with Les Moonvez.
[01:20:03]  Oh, exactly.
[01:20:04]  Or Charlie Rose.
[01:20:05]  You should have gone, no.
[01:20:06]  You should have gone to NBC and spoken with the executives there who are definitely not rape apologists.
[01:20:12]  What?
[01:20:12]  You could have picked word from Matt Lauer, Janice.
[01:20:15]  Oh, wait.
[01:20:16]  I know.
[01:20:17]  I mean, yes, yes.
[01:20:20]  So, like, where were you supposed to go?
[01:20:21]  There was no better place when it came to that.
[01:20:23]  There really wasn't.
[01:20:23]  And I really, I never felt threatened.
[01:20:27]  I certainly was like grossed out and like, but I always felt like I was able to sort of like swat him.
[01:20:32]  I mean, I hate to use that word, but I was able to sort of like, you know, use my sense of humor to get him like, Back onto the discussion that I wanted.
[01:20:42]  And he did hire me, and I worked for, you know, I'm still there 17 years later.
[01:20:46]  But there were times when I was first hired, he would see me on TV and then he would call me up to his office.
[01:20:51]  And then I would kind of sit there and he would talk about the shop and then he would get weird.
[01:20:56]  But again, he would always ask me about the boyfriend, like, you're still dating that boyfriend?
[01:21:00]  And I'm, yep, yep, Sean's still around, you know.
[01:21:02]  So, yeah.
[01:21:04]  The funny thing that people don't know is you didn't even really want to marry Sean.
[01:21:06]  You just did it as a block.
[01:21:09]  That's right.
[01:21:11]  So, you know, but That's kind of my story.
[01:21:15]  Were there inappropriate comments?
[01:21:17]  Yes, of course.
[01:21:18]  When I went up to the office, did he ask me to spin?
[01:21:21]  Yes.
[01:21:21]  Unfortunately, it was sort of like, let me.
[01:21:23]  He didn't, he never said spin.
[01:21:25]  He would just say, let me see you, like, let me see you, you know?
[01:21:28]  And I remember the first time I was on air, Megan, and I wore like a business suit.
[01:21:35]  And the phone call came like 30 seconds later.
[01:21:38]  Yeah.
[01:21:38]  Burn that business suit.
[01:21:41]  That reminds me of when I tried to dye my hair brown.
[01:21:45]  I had gotten a divorce from my first husband, and I was going through one of those like sort of skin shedding moments where it's like, okay, I'm the new me.
[01:21:51]  And I cut my hair short and I dyed it brown.
[01:21:54]  And I'll never forget Britt Hume coming into the office and he said, I have a message from Mr. Ailes.
[01:21:58]  He hired a blonde and he wants a blonde.
[01:22:01]  Okay.
[01:22:02]  Back to blonde, I went.
[01:22:03]  And I actually checked my contract because, of course, I'm a lawyer.
[01:22:06]  And it did say that he had the right to tell me no if I wanted to make any major changes to my look.
[01:22:13]  And so he actually had the legal right to tell me that.
[01:22:16]  And then I wound up doing all this research on.
[01:22:18]  Like how much control they could have over me in terms of what I wore.
[01:22:21]  Although I will say, everybody thinks that Fox has this no pants.
[01:22:25]  Well, that doesn't sound right mandate, no pants allowed.
[01:22:30]  It's no pants day.
[01:22:33]  That didn't come out right.
[01:22:35]  But you know, that you're not allowed to wear pants as a woman.
[01:22:37]  You have to wear a skirt or a short or shorts.
[01:22:39]  Never.
[01:22:40]  In my experience, I don't know.
[01:22:41]  I don't know somebody to whom that has happened, but I'm not saying it's impossible, but never.
[01:22:46]  And I mean, I feel like I would have been one of the women who they would have said that to.
[01:22:50]  I wasn't always powerful.
[01:22:51]  I started off.
[01:22:52]  Very not powerful, and um, never.
[01:22:55]  I wore pants all the time, nobody ever called me or said anything about it.
[01:22:58]  Now, they didn't want you to wear too many dark colors, but that was just because they wanted your clothes to sort of pop on the air, right?
[01:23:05]  But um, yeah, it's yes, there are a lot of rumors about Fox that aren't true.
[01:23:09]  So, this was 2006, right?
[01:23:12]  That you did what was the year 2003?
[01:23:14]  So, this was 2003, actually.
[01:23:16]  I interviewed it, it was it was this time, you know, 18 years ago, 17 years ago.
[01:23:24]  Yep, wow, yeah.
[01:23:27]  I didn't know that.
[01:23:27]  So I got hired by Fox in 2004.
[01:23:30]  It was August of 2004.
[01:23:32]  And I didn't have anything like that happen to me on my interview with him.
[01:23:40]  I remember he did make one inappropriate comment about he asked me what I had done that weekend.
[01:23:44]  And I told him I went to the bar Hogs and Heifers in New York with some friends.
[01:23:48]  And that's the bar that they based that movie Coyote Ugly on, where all the girls dance on the bar.
[01:23:54]  And he said, Did you take off your top and throw your bra against the Against the wall, something like that.
[01:24:02]  I can't remember how he phrased it.
[01:24:04]  And I just got out of bounds and I was like, no, but I did have a PAPS blue ribbon in a can.
[01:24:09]  So it's kind of like that, right?
[01:24:10]  We're like, yeah, you feel it, right?
[01:24:12]  Like he throws you something that's definitely got an R rating on it and you respond with a PG, right?
[01:24:18]  Like that's kind of how it would go R, PG, R, PG.
[01:24:23]  And I think, like you said, he was testing, is she cool?
[01:24:27]  That's kind of how I saw it initially.
[01:24:29]  Like, is she cool?
[01:24:30]  Is she uptight?
[01:24:30]  Is she going to be somebody?
[01:24:31]  You know, they say that his philosophy was, I want to hire a Men who I want to have a beer with and women who I want to sleep with.
[01:24:40]  Like it or not, that's what they said Roger was looking for in people he put on the air.
[01:24:44]  And I do think that's just sort of a crass way of boiling down to he wanted attractive women who he thought people would like and he wanted decent guys who didn't take themselves too seriously.
[01:24:55]  Like that is just a short form way of Roger's approach to the news.
[01:24:59]  And guess what?
[01:25:00]  It worked.
[01:25:02]  So I had a similar thing, you know, but then after I got there, I was down in the DC Bureau for my first two years.
[01:25:07]  And so I didn't really have to see him much, but he just kept calling me up there.
[01:25:10]  It wasn't until 2005 when things really got bad.
[01:25:15]  And it just ramped up to a level that was unignorable and incredibly uncomfortable.
[01:25:21]  And all of which I detailed in my journals, which I wound up giving to Paul Weiss.
[01:25:27]  I mean, I had it all written down.
[01:25:28]  I was a lawyer, after all.
[01:25:30]  I understood very well what was happening and that I should be documenting it just in case there was a problem.
[01:25:36]  I did not see him at the time as a serial harasser, I saw him as somebody who wanted to have an affair with me.
[01:25:41]  And, but I was worried because I knew I was not going to have an affair with him.
[01:25:46]  And as you know, you don't, the last thing you want to do is reject a man, any man who has power over you.
[01:25:55]  It's not a good situation for a woman to be in.
[01:25:57]  Every man who gets rejected by a woman feels some resentment toward her, usually.
[01:26:01]  And you really don't want that with your boss.
[01:26:04]  And, you know, I was doing well at Fox and I didn't want him to change the stakes of my doing well.
[01:26:09]  I just wanted to be judged by the reporting.
[01:26:12]  And it was very clear to me, he was really trying to get me into this other lane with really inappropriate comments, really on the nose, too.
[01:26:18]  Really on the nose.
[01:26:19]  I mean, I remember he told me, I won't name the anchor, but she was very famous at the time.
[01:26:23]  And he said, she got to the top by sleeping with her boss.
[01:26:27]  You should be more like her.
[01:26:29]  It's like, okay, that's a little on the nose.
[01:26:32]  And it just went on and on.
[01:26:34]  And then, you know, as has now been documented, I wrote about it in my book.
[01:26:36]  He ultimately tried to make out with me three times in his office.
[01:26:41]  I got away.
[01:26:42]  He grabbed me again.
[01:26:44]  It wasn't like grab, like assault, you know, it's just like trying to have me.
[01:26:49]  I got away and I got over to the front door and I got away a third time.
[01:26:53]  He tried a third time and then he looked at me and said, When is your contract up?
[01:26:59]  And I was like, Holy shit.
[01:27:01]  And I got out of there and I called my lawyer and said, This is what just happened to me.
[01:27:08]  And he opened up a case file just so that it would be in the conflict log at Jones Day, which was the law firm I had worked for.
[01:27:16]  And, um, I was on pins and needles for so many months thereafter.
[01:27:20]  You know, I went, I discussed it with a supervisor whom I've never named.
[01:27:27]  And I was told, just ignore him.
[01:27:29]  You know, he's an unhappily married guy and he's going through a thing.
[01:27:33]  And just stay, if you stay away from him, it'll go away.
[01:27:36]  And I was like, great.
[01:27:38]  That's all I want.
[01:27:39]  I didn't want to make a federal case out of it.
[01:27:41]  I just wanted to go back to where I'd been before the nonsense, you know, being judged on my professional stuff.
[01:27:47]  And it worked.
[01:27:49]  You know, I dodged his calls.
[01:27:50]  I was sitting next to Major Garrett in my office.
[01:27:52]  We shared an office.
[01:27:54]  And I'm like a first or second year reporter.
[01:27:57]  And my phone keeps lighting up, and you can see the name of the person calling you on the display.
[01:28:01]  And it keeps saying, Roger Ailes, Roger Ailes.
[01:28:03]  And Major's looking at me like, What the hell?
[01:28:05]  Yeah.
[01:28:06]  I'm like, oh.
[01:28:07]  So I told Major all about it.
[01:28:08]  He was actually very supportive and helped me navigate it.
[01:28:12]  And I also told him about, you know, the big sort of culmination when he tried to then kiss and make out.
[01:28:19]  And he gave me some good advice.
[01:28:21]  And he was not the supervisor who I referred to, but he wasn't my supervisor.
[01:28:25]  He was my friend and my office mate.
[01:28:26]  But anyway.
[01:28:27]  What did he say?
[01:28:28]  It wasn't until he was horrified.
[01:28:31]  He was horrified.
[01:28:32]  But JD, he had seen a lot of that stuff with me.
[01:28:34]  Roger was not the only one to.
[01:28:37]  Behave like that.
[01:28:38]  You know, I wrote in my book about Arlen Specter, again, God rest his soul, who was like really inappropriate with me.
[01:28:45]  And he said things like, Megan, after I survived cancer, you're the one who gave me my libido back.
[01:28:56]  And more, more than that, he asked me out for drinks many, many times, asked to show me his little apartment that he, I'm like, no, thank you, Senator.
[01:29:04]  And, but this guy was chairman of the Judiciary Committee and I was covering the Supreme Court.
[01:29:08]  So I needed a relationship with him.
[01:29:09]  I could, it was one another thing.
[01:29:11]  Like, you don't want to reject him, but I am not going to his little apartment.
[01:29:14]  He was telling me about how it was like a bomb shelter.
[01:29:16]  He had like enough Campbell's soup in there to last him two years.
[01:29:19]  And he wanted to show me his soup.
[01:29:20]  Oh, that's sexy.
[01:29:21]  That's sexy.
[01:29:23]  JD, these guys got to work on their act.
[01:29:26]  Oh, my.
[01:29:27]  Let me show you my soup now that I've gotten my post cancer libido back.
[01:29:33]  Well, in a time of COVID, I mean, that might be attractive now.
[01:29:36]  No, but here's the funny thing about Major.
[01:29:38]  So he goes, I did go see Arlen Spector.
[01:29:42]  In the Capitol building.
[01:29:43]  He invited me to have lunch in the Senate private dining room.
[01:29:47]  And I was like, well, that sounds fancy and like something I should do.
[01:29:50]  So I look at Major and I'm like, this seems like a thing, right?
[01:29:53]  Like, this seems kind of like a good invitation.
[01:29:55]  And he looked at me with this, like, one of those, are you kidding me, faces.
[01:30:00]  And he goes, 17 years I've been covering Capitol Hill.
[01:30:05]  Not once have I been invited to the Senate private dining room.
[01:30:09]  Oh, Major.
[01:30:10]  Oh, well.
[01:30:11]  So I went.
[01:30:12]  I got over there.
[01:30:13]  Next thing I know, Spectre's got me in something called his hideaway office, which they give to the most important senators there.
[01:30:19]  You know, like if you're head of the chairman of the judiciary committee or whatever.
[01:30:23]  And he keeps in, he keeps like, it's like three hours later and he hasn't left me.
[01:30:28]  I'm like, oh my God, I got to get out of here.
[01:30:30]  How do I get out of here?
[01:30:31]  So he had to go vote.
[01:30:32]  And I texted Major, like, oh my God, he's got me in something called his hideaway.
[01:30:36]  What should I do?
[01:30:36]  And Major's like, get out, get out now.
[01:30:40]  Run.
[01:30:41]  That is just for towel snapping rights.
[01:30:43]  I'm like, I don't know what that is, but it sounds bad.
[01:30:46]  So I got out of there.
[01:30:47]  My point is simply like Major had sort of lived through a bunch of these with me where he's like, Jesus, these disgusting old men are everywhere.
[01:30:55]  And he was a good guy.
[01:30:57]  So, yada, yada, yada.
[01:30:59]  I mean, that's all just a setup for when Ida, you and I had talked about like our experiences with Roger, but we did not know other harassment victims.
[01:31:09]  People now look back and say, Why didn't you come forward?
[01:31:11]  I'm like, Okay, so first of all, I told a supervisor, right?
[01:31:15]  Like, what more would you have me do?
[01:31:16]  It wasn't exactly like something I could go report to human resources, right?
[01:31:20]  Like they work for him.
[01:31:22]  And it wasn't like something I could bring to the CEO who was him.
[01:31:26]  And so then Gretchen filed the lawsuit.
[01:31:32]  And you and I, I'll never forget the day we saw that lawsuit come through.
[01:31:36]  I know.
[01:31:36]  I know.
[01:31:37]  Right.
[01:31:39]  It was jaw dropping because I had gotten to know Gretchen over the years.
[01:31:43]  And we had, you know, I would say we were, you know, friends.
[01:31:48]  And I had told her about what had happened with Roger.
[01:31:52]  I remember the dinner that I was at with a makeup artist and Gretchen, and we were talking about Roger, and I felt comfortable enough to tell her what had happened.
[01:32:01]  And she was very interested in the story.
[01:32:04]  So much so that she asked me a few times to tell her about it.
[01:32:08]  And then she would ask me if I knew anybody else.
[01:32:11]  And I remember specifically her asking, Did it happen to Megyn Kelly?
[01:32:14]  And I would never betray you.
[01:32:17]  I just said, I'm not sure.
[01:32:19]  So, and to that end, I also had a good enough relationship with her that she never told me she had issues with Roger.
[01:32:29]  We would all get called to his office if there was a problem.
[01:32:32]  And I remember at the time that she had gotten the one.
[01:32:35]  Clock show and the ratings weren't good, so I knew that she was going up to his office a lot.
[01:32:38]  And you know, I'm sure he could be really mean, like really mean.
[01:32:42]  Um, but she had never told me, you know, after I had shared my story, she had never said that she was harassed by him, so that's why I we were both shocked.
[01:32:53]  Um, that well, they didn't have a good relationship really from the time he moved her off Fox and Friends because he didn't think she was good in that role, and he had said that to me a few times privately, he didn't like her on that show, he thought she was too stiff.
[01:33:08]  They did not have a good relationship.
[01:33:10]  And she gave an interview to some like Connecticut home magazine one time and got completely sandbagged.
[01:33:19]  Like the reporter was really just such a jerk.
[01:33:21]  I remember reading it being like, oh, I hate this reporter.
[01:33:24]  They completely, it was like a bait and switch.
[01:33:26]  I thought you were talking about like her beautiful home.
[01:33:28]  And it was like, you suck.
[01:33:29]  And everybody at Fox sucks.
[01:33:30]  And tell me more why everyone sucks.
[01:33:32]  And she was pissed.
[01:33:33]  And she blamed it on him.
[01:33:35]  And I just know they had this huge fight where like, I can't remember how the F bomb was used, but like either she told him to fuck off or he told her to fuck off or something.
[01:33:44]  It just ended with an F bomb.
[01:33:46]  And I remember being like, oh, that's not good.
[01:33:48]  And she was already mad.
[01:33:50]  She was on the one o'clock or whatever it was, two o'clock instead of the morning show.
[01:33:54]  And I don't know, from the outside, we all just thought it's not going well for her here.
[01:33:59]  And that, and it can't go well for you there if you don't get along with Roger.
[01:34:03]  And, you know, now she says it's because she wouldn't sleep with the guy and apparently has tapes of him saying inappropriate things, which, you know, We all could have done that.
[01:34:12]  He did to so many things.
[01:34:13]  Yeah.
[01:34:14]  Yeah.
[01:34:14]  Well, that's the thing it's like, I don't know.
[01:34:17]  We just didn't.
[01:34:18]  When she filed that lawsuit, I think most of us were like, not sure because she got fired.
[01:34:24]  She hadn't been getting along with him.
[01:34:25]  She hadn't been succeeding in terms of the ratings at all in that afternoon show, though she claimed she had been, but the truth is she hadn't.
[01:34:33]  And we were skeptical, right?
[01:34:36]  It was like, and we loved Roger.
[01:34:39]  Like you and I had both gotten past those incidents and had been.
[01:34:43]  Had many others, you know, by then it was like, you know, it wasn't that unusual.
[01:34:47]  So, and by the way, he never retaliated against me at all for not going along with it at all, never.
[01:34:54]  And most of the women I've now talked to about it have said the same that he wasn't a retaliator, but it wasn't true in all cases.
[01:35:01]  That's, I'm not trying to disparage Gretchen.
[01:35:03]  I'm just trying to tell the audience it was confusing when she first filed the lawsuit because we were much more aligned with him than we were with her.
[01:35:09]  It was jaw-dropping.
[01:35:10]  Every instinct was to defend him and not.
[01:35:13]  Yes, absolutely.
[01:35:16]  But then, because you and I knew our stories, there, of course, we were like, well, you know what?
[01:35:22]  If it's happened to us, I wonder if it's happened to other people.
[01:35:27]  And I had heard stories over the years of, you know, situations.

=== Finding Strength In Shared Stories (15:04) ===

[01:35:31]  I was an office mate with someone that, you know, would go up to his office and she would be really upset coming, you know, down the stairs.
[01:35:39]  And she never told me why.
[01:35:41]  You know, there are all these things that I over the years.
[01:35:43]  Wait, wait.
[01:35:43]  I want to talk to you about that.
[01:35:44]  Can I, can we talk about that?
[01:35:46]  We don't have to name the person, but this is one of the things that confuses me when I still look back on the Fox era.
[01:35:52]  I remember this person.
[01:35:54]  You called me after she came back to your shared office and she was in tears.
[01:35:59]  And you're like, she just came from a meeting with him.
[01:36:01]  And I was like, Janice, you got to find out why she was in tears.
[01:36:05]  Like, is he doing it to other people?
[01:36:07]  Like, is there a thing that we should know about?
[01:36:10]  And you did.
[01:36:11]  You, to your credit, you went to her and you were like, did something happen?
[01:36:15]  And she totally denied it and was like, absolutely not.
[01:36:20]  He's like saying something about my career that I'm unhappy with.
[01:36:23]  Like she wanted a show and he wasn't going to give her a show, something like that.
[01:36:26]  And you pressed her and you walked away convinced, you know, okay, it really isn't that.
[01:36:31]  So we were like, okay.
[01:36:32]  And then after Ailes went down and he'd been, Fired, escorted out of the building.
[01:36:38]  This person called me and I didn't really know this person.
[01:36:41]  And I was like, This is it.
[01:36:43]  She's going to tell me that she really was a victim of his.
[01:36:47]  And that when Janice asked her all those years ago, she was lying to Janice.
[01:36:52]  And I remember where I was and I was talking to her.
[01:36:56]  And I asked her, I'm like, So did you ever have a thing with it?
[01:36:59]  There was ever a situation.
[01:37:00]  She was like, Absolutely not.
[01:37:03]  Like, I'm so confused.
[01:37:04]  I don't know what to believe.
[01:37:05]  You know, like, I know.
[01:37:07]  By that point, I knew what he was.
[01:37:09]  And then, but here's like a post epilogue to the epilogue.
[01:37:12]  I recently spoke with somebody else who was like, oh, yeah, she was one of his victims.
[01:37:16]  I'm like, what?
[01:37:17]  She was like, yeah, I talked to her.
[01:37:19]  So, Janice, I mean, like the whole, like women were not comfortable talking about this.
[01:37:26]  No, they weren't.
[01:37:28]  They weren't.
[01:37:28]  But like you said, and to this day, had your name not been leaked, I don't think, you know, this is just my personal opinion, has nothing to do with Gretchen.
[01:37:38]  I don't think she would have won.
[01:37:40]  Because your name was leaked, and then that gave other women the courage to share stories.
[01:37:49]  And that's when you and I decided okay, let's try to find out.
[01:37:56]  Let's go undercover and go door to door.
[01:38:01]  Because I had a good relationship with a lot of these women.
[01:38:03]  I had been there for so long, and I would just basically knock on people's doors and say, everybody was freaked out, obviously, of what was going on.
[01:38:12]  And the women, of course.
[01:38:14]  And so I would just knock on the door and say, How are you doing?
[01:38:18]  But even before you get to that, I mean, there was an enormous pressure campaign to speak up on his behalf enormous pressure.
[01:38:26]  And it was directed, it was personal.
[01:38:28]  And in some situations, jobs were threatened.
[01:38:31]  And, you know, I look back with forgiveness on the Fox News people who spoke out because they didn't believe he was capable of it because, you know, there wasn't.
[01:38:43]  If people think it was an open secret at Fox, it wasn't.
[01:38:45]  It wasn't.
[01:38:47]  And B, they loved the guy.
[01:38:48]  He had done a lot of good for a lot of us there, helped families with cancer, paid for people's rehabilitation treatments, and so on.
[01:38:56]  He gave everybody second chances and then some.
[01:38:59]  And C, no one really liked Gretchen.
[01:39:01]  I mean, that's the truth.
[01:39:03]  So I understood why they were defending him, but there was no way, no way I was going to come out and say something that wasn't true, you know, that he's not capable of this or.
[01:39:15]  He would never, which is essentially what people were saying.
[01:39:20]  I knew different.
[01:39:21]  And you knew different.
[01:39:23]  And that was an incredibly stressful time.
[01:39:28]  I think of all the shit that's gone down in my life over the past few years, Trump and NBC and all this stuff.
[01:39:34]  That was the most stressful thing.
[01:39:37]  When our colleagues were coming out defending him, Beth Ailes was calling me, trying to get me to come out and defend him.
[01:39:45]  And again, I did feel loyal.
[01:39:47]  Loyalty to him and to Beth.
[01:39:49]  I cared about her.
[01:39:50]  I cared about their family.
[01:39:53]  And I didn't like Gretchen.
[01:39:55]  So it's like, oh my God.
[01:39:57]  And yet, you know, I couldn't lie.
[01:40:02]  And I just knew what the right thing was.
[01:40:05]  But But doing the right thing is not always easy.
[01:40:07]  That's for sure.
[01:40:08]  It wasn't.
[01:40:09]  It wasn't, especially like you said, I thought I would probably be fired.
[01:40:13]  I really did.
[01:40:14]  I thought he wasn't going to go down.
[01:40:17]  Gretchen was not going to get her settlement.
[01:40:20]  And, you know, what a leap of faith I'm taking to go in and talk about suicide mission.
[01:40:27]  Yeah.
[01:40:27]  I mean, and, you know, I told you about the three times that were uncomfortable, and I've been through some much worse situations.
[01:40:36]  So, you know, to take that risk and be like, okay, so this happened like 13 years ago, but it might be a pattern of behavior, you know?
[01:40:46]  So, well, that's where you and I landed, which was we have no idea how these stories connect or don't connect to other stories that may or may not exist.
[01:40:54]  All we know is we have two pieces that may either be two individual pieces or part of a larger mosaic.
[01:40:59]  We don't know the answer.
[01:41:01]  And that's where you and I were for a while.
[01:41:04]  And we were relieved.
[01:41:06]  That they were going to investigate it finally.
[01:41:08]  It was like, okay, good.
[01:41:09]  They're bringing in an investigator and they'll get to the bottom of this.
[01:41:12]  And if he's not a serial harasser, then good.
[01:41:14]  This will go away.
[01:41:14]  They'll work it out with Gretchen, whatever happened between the two of them.
[01:41:17]  That's that.
[01:41:18]  But the thing that happened that changed everything was somebody close to Ailes made the mistake of telling me that they had managed to limit the investigation to only the immediate team that had worked with Gretchen Carlson, which I knew would not include any talent.
[01:41:36]  You would not be called, I would not be called.
[01:41:40]  or anybody else, you know, that was like six people, half of whom were guys and low-level producers who would never have been alone with him.
[01:41:49]  And, you know, you and I talked about this at length, like now what?
[01:41:54]  Because it's one thing to be called in by the investigators and tell your story, but it's another thing entirely to raise your hand first and volunteer to tell the story.
[01:42:08]  I just felt like so much more of a betrayal to be active about it instead of passive.
[01:42:14]  And that I just had such a hard time getting over it.
[01:42:16]  And to this day, there are some people there who haven't forgiven me for taking an active role.
[01:42:21]  I mean, I remember somebody very powerful there saying to me, I said, I followed my ethical compass.
[01:42:27]  And he said, loyalty is a part of ethics, Megan.
[01:42:32]  And I said, I understand that.
[01:42:34]  But you can be loyal to a child molester.
[01:42:38]  But when you find out he's hurting people, you would betray him.
[01:42:42]  You would betray that loyalty because there's a higher cause.
[01:42:45]  And that's the position I felt I was in.
[01:42:48]  I didn't run and make a federal case out of it when he harassed me.
[01:42:51]  I did not sell him out.
[01:42:53]  I didn't file a lawsuit.
[01:42:55]  I didn't try to, I am woman, hear me roar.
[01:42:57]  That was unheard of, by the way, at the time it was happening to us.
[01:43:00]  Unheard of.
[01:43:03]  So I navigated it and I fixed my situation.
[01:43:05]  I went on.
[01:43:07]  But this is different.
[01:43:09]  Now the question is being put directly to me Are you going to stand up and say what he did or aren't you?
[01:43:16]  Like, are you somebody who's going to have the back of a person you don't particularly love?
[01:43:22]  because she's twisting in the wind right now.
[01:43:24]  And anyway, it was just, you and I talked about it and we talked about, well, what if it's just us too?
[01:43:29]  Like, right, what if we really aren't part of a mosaic?
[01:43:32]  It sure would be easier if we thought there were others.
[01:43:34]  And like, if he is a serial harasser, there will be.
[01:43:37]  And that's where Janice Dean, you know, that's where like you made all the difference, all the difference.
[01:43:43]  Going back to your earlier comment about how you were in a non-threatening role, you know, you were the meteorologist.
[01:43:50]  That's why everybody would talk to you.
[01:43:52]  You had prior to this moment you had great relationships i i had very solid friendships there too but i think maybe people felt more threatened by me i was in a sort of more powerful role and most people just kind of don't want to bother you in a role like that they think You know, you'll get annoyed, or I don't know what it was, but you were.
[01:44:09]  I would say you were just a soft place to fall.
[01:44:11]  You were always a soft place to fall in my life and still are.
[01:44:14]  And you project that to the world.
[01:44:16]  They just know that about you.
[01:44:17]  So people started calling you, and you started gently reaching out to people.
[01:44:21]  And lo and behold, there they were.
[01:44:24]  You know, this underground stiletto army of women who, honestly, who said, Me too.
[01:44:36]  Yep.
[01:44:37]  Yep, before there was even a Me Too.
[01:44:40]  Yep.
[01:44:41]  Very brave, very brave, very brave.
[01:44:45]  But we couldn't have done it.
[01:44:46]  We would not have done it without you.
[01:44:51]  I still feel so bad when I look back on it, though, Janice.
[01:44:53]  I feel like, you know, I still wish that, you know, like what if I had made a federal case out of it?
[01:45:05]  You know, what if.
[01:45:08]  What if I had thrown caution to the wind and just thought, like, you know, I'm just going to make sure right now he's not this other thing?
[01:45:17]  You know, that some of the women who came after might not have had to deal with it.
[01:45:22]  And even now, I have concerns the other way.
[01:45:25]  I don't regret anything we did, but I do feel like I was disloyal.
[01:45:31]  I still have that in me.
[01:45:32]  You know, there's like a cult mentality at Fox about you don't turn against the family, and you certainly don't turn against the patriarch of the family.
[01:45:43]  And I still feel like I did betray him and in a way them, and I understand why they don't like me.
[01:45:50]  You know, like some of these guys were still there.
[01:45:51]  I don't, do you ever, do you ever, I don't, do you ever wrestle with that either way?
[01:45:57]  Yeah.
[01:45:58]  I mean, there, there were people that I remember doing interviews saying that, you know, these women are liars, like close to me, people I worked with that I loved that were basically saying they're liars.
[01:46:12]  I think about that.
[01:46:14]  I think forgiveness is important.
[01:46:16]  It's something I've learned to have more of over the years.
[01:46:19]  I try to forgive people and we have to forgive ourselves too.
[01:46:27]  To this day, I wonder sometimes was he that monster?
[01:46:33]  I don't, I mean, we've heard terrible stories.
[01:46:35]  So, yes, he probably was, but he was so good.
[01:46:39]  It's not black and white, it's very gray.
[01:46:42]  He was very kind to me when I was diagnosed with MS. We had a good relationship.
[01:46:47]  He was like a father figure.
[01:46:49]  I mean, we really truly like, I mean, this man's career went, you know, I cried when he died.
[01:46:57]  I cried.
[01:46:57]  I cried.
[01:46:58]  There's video of me crying on Fox and Friends because it is not that simple.
[01:47:04]  It's not, it's never that simple.
[01:47:07]  You know, like women that are married to abusers and they keep going back, there's a reason for that.
[01:47:12]  It's not.
[01:47:13]  That simple, we did the best we could with the information that we had, and you have to forgive yourself.
[01:47:19]  And if those people are still going around saying, like, you know, if Roger was still here, you know, this, that, or the other thing, well, you know what, he's not, and that's that's the way it, you know, that's the way it's on him, and that's unfolded.
[01:47:36]  That's on him, that I do know.
[01:47:39]  You always because all I said, I mean, like, truly, what did I wind up doing?
[01:47:43]  I wound up calling Locke the Murdoch, you know, I mean, that was.
[01:47:47]  After all the wrestling of like, now what?
[01:47:49]  Now what do we do?
[01:47:50]  Because all these women and men at the company are coming out and saying, never, he wouldn't, no way.
[01:47:56]  Then I find out he's gotten the investigation limited to basically no one.
[01:48:00]  And I, you know, I wrote about this in my book, but it's a hundred percent true that.
[01:48:04]  I was on my porch swing in New Jersey looking at pictures on my phone, and there was a picture of Yardley, you know, who was then five.
[01:48:13]  Yeah, she was five.
[01:48:15]  And she had fallen off the monkey bars like a month or two earlier, and I had been working.
[01:48:21]  I was out in San Diego covering the last day of the Democratic primary contest.
[01:48:27]  Hillary Clinton secured the nomination that day, and my daughter fell off the top of the monkey bars and was rushed to the emergency room by.
[01:48:34]  A babysitter, someone other than me, and needed several stitches.
[01:48:40]  And it was terrible.
[01:48:42]  You know, we all had and have working mother guilt.
[01:48:45]  And those are the moments it really springs into action.
[01:48:48]  I don't have to tell you that.
[01:48:49]  And that's the.
[01:48:51]  And then, so two weeks later, she got back up on those same monkey bars.
[01:48:56]  She was wearing a white dress with red dots and sneakers, and her long hair was hanging.
[01:49:01]  I took a picture of hers at the top of the monkey bars, looking down, all smiles.
[01:49:06]  In her dress, but her sneakers.
[01:49:07]  So it's like a girl, but like tough and resilient and brave.
[01:49:14]  And I saw that picture, and that was truly the moment I said, I'm calling him.
[01:49:19]  I'm calling Lachlan Murdoch.
[01:49:21]  And I'm telling this story.
[01:49:25]  And there needs to be a full investigation for other women this may be happening to, for Yardley.
[01:49:34]  You know, I know that the Me Too movement has been.
[01:49:38]  Corrupted by people who used it for political reasons.
[01:49:42]  But what happened at Fox was done out of real concern for our fellow colleagues, our daughters, and the people who had come up after us.
[01:49:53]  That's the truth.
[01:49:55]  And you, like, going door to door at Fox News and trying to get women to trust you at a time when we were not trusting each other, to the contrary.
[01:50:09]  Was incredibly courageous, JD.
[01:50:11]  And I remember it was part of your stress, right?
[01:50:13]  Like that not only would you have told your story, but you didn't want to be known as a ringleader, which would be held against you, you know?
[01:50:20]  And you didn't have the full picture for how this would shake out all these years later, you know, that he would go down and he was hurting people serially and in very dark ways.

=== Building Trust Among Women At Fox (04:36) ===

[01:50:35]  Yeah.
[01:50:35]  And every day I would come home and I'd say to Sean, like, Oh, you know, I talked to somebody else today and he knew it was dangerous.
[01:50:43]  And, but I kept doing it.
[01:50:45]  I just kept trying to find others, you know, and, you know, I struggle.
[01:50:52]  I, you know, I was able to write about it too, and it was really important.
[01:50:55]  And, and my, I've been in therapy for 20 years, and God bless Judy.
[01:50:59]  Judy.
[01:51:01]  God bless Judy.
[01:51:01]  And I know you got one too.
[01:51:03]  And, I mean, she had to sit with me for many days, you know, where I was, Very difficult.
[01:51:10]  This was, yeah, this was one of the hardest things we've ever done.
[01:51:14]  And, you know, and I would say people have asked me, what's your advice?
[01:51:19]  You know, and my advice is, you know, try to find some girlfriends in your place of work.
[01:51:24]  You know, like there is strength in numbers and look at what's happened.
[01:51:27]  I, you know, listen, there's always going to be naughty people.
[01:51:33]  There's always going to be like those men, unfortunately.
[01:51:37]  But I do believe we're trying to turn a corner where it's, It's safer, I hope.
[01:51:43]  And someone asked me just a few months ago Do you think you're still at Fox because you're sort of like a den mother and you feel like you can't leave there because you have to take care of others?
[01:51:54]  And I think that there's something to that too.
[01:51:59]  That is who you are.
[01:52:01]  I mean, that was one of my main complaints.
[01:52:04]  Complaints about the movie Bombshell, you know, that I didn't have anything to do with was that your role didn't get its proper due.
[01:52:14]  It didn't.
[01:52:15]  But no one knew.
[01:52:16]  It's okay.
[01:52:17]  That's listen.
[01:52:18]  I know.
[01:52:20]  But who cares?
[01:52:21]  The bottom line is you know what?
[01:52:23]  For better or for worse, the story is it's history.
[01:52:27]  It's a historic movement where women got together.
[01:52:34]  And tried to do the right thing.
[01:52:36]  That's the bottom line, they just tried to do the right thing.
[01:52:39]  And they had, you know, their husbands, my husband Sean, like, you know, it was the day that I went home and he told me, it doesn't matter.
[01:52:49]  It doesn't matter what happens.
[01:52:51]  You're going to lose your job.
[01:52:53]  We'll figure it out.
[01:52:54]  You have to go in and tell your story.
[01:52:56]  That's what it's about.
[01:52:58]  Same.
[01:52:58]  Honestly, Doug never hesitated.
[01:53:00]  He was like, Hun, you always know the right thing to do.
[01:53:05]  And if, If this is what you feel is the right thing, go do it.
[01:53:11]  You and I saw the movie together.
[01:53:14]  We were holding hands.
[01:53:16]  I think we cried throughout the entire thing, right?
[01:53:19]  Like that night was so emotional.
[01:53:21]  And, you know, it came in the heels of her press tour where she'd been so negative about Fox, about me.
[01:53:29]  It was like, wow, I don't understand.
[01:53:30]  And so I kind of went into it thinking, I don't know what I'm going to get here.
[01:53:34]  I don't know what this movie is going to be about, how it's going to reflect on what happened.
[01:53:39]  Because even though.
[01:53:41]  I'm fine taking criticism.
[01:53:42]  I take it all the time.
[01:53:44]  I view that chapter of our lives as hollowed ground.
[01:53:48]  I just, I really won't tolerate people debasing it because it was a really hard, complex, but noble effort.
[01:54:01]  And I just remember holding each other the whole time and like seeing your life portrayed up there on the big screen that you've just lived, right?
[01:54:10]  Like it came out.
[01:54:12]  Two years after we lived it?
[01:54:14]  You know, it's like, and I've laughed because I've said before that there's a reason I repressed all of this.
[01:54:20]  Of course.
[01:54:21]  I did not wish to be thrown back into that elevator on the ride up to Ails's office.
[01:54:25]  And, you know, she looked just like me.
[01:54:28]  She did.
[01:54:29]  It was crazy.
[01:54:30]  It was crazy.
[01:54:31]  Though I don't think she sounded just like me, but she looked just like me.
[01:54:35]  No, you have a very distinctive voice.
[01:54:36]  She tried.
[01:54:37]  There were times where she tried to get it right, but it failed.
[01:54:41]  Well, she was sort of, you know, she went down here.
[01:54:45]  Right.
[01:54:45]  And I can go down there if I want, but I can also go up here.
[01:54:48]  I can go all over.
[01:54:52]  It was jarring.
[01:54:53]  It was jarring how much she looked like you.
[01:54:57]  But I will say that I was disappointed when she would do these press junkets and she would be, you know, people would say, well, how do you cover her?
[01:55:06]  You know, like, ah, F off.
[01:55:08]  You know, just screw off.

=== Remembering Her Courageous Stand (07:13) ===

[01:55:11]  You have no idea.
[01:55:12]  You've never even met each other before.
[01:55:13]  And she takes this, well, it was a role and it was the.
[01:55:18]  You know, you people have no idea what we went through.
[01:55:21]  Like, really, you're just actors.
[01:55:24]  She's never met me.
[01:55:25]  She's never met me.
[01:55:26]  She gave some interviews sort of saying, When Megan Kelly walks into a room, I'm like, What do you, she should describe what I'm like.
[01:55:31]  We don't know each other.
[01:55:32]  How do you know what I'm like when I walk into a room?
[01:55:34]  You have no idea.
[01:55:35]  But the only thing she really said that upset me, and for the most part, I thought, you know, she was classy and she handled herself very well.
[01:55:42]  But the only thing she said that I did have an issue with was somebody at one of those QAs after the fact said something like, Well, if Megyn Kelly, you know, she got harassed, why didn't she come forward when it happened?
[01:55:57]  And if she really knew the story, she would have responded by saying she did come forward.
[01:56:01]  She did.
[01:56:01]  She went to a supervisor and told the story, and they didn't do anything.
[01:56:04]  But instead, she said, Oh, no, Megyn Kelly was late to the party.
[01:56:10]  No question.
[01:56:11]  She was late to the party.
[01:56:12]  Oh, my gosh.
[01:56:14]  Oh, I didn't know she said something like that.
[01:56:16]  Yeah.
[01:56:16]  And I was like, What party was that?
[01:56:20]  Because there was no party before the women of Fox News stood up for themselves then against their boss.
[01:56:26]  Women were not doing that.
[01:56:27]  There was no Me Too movement.
[01:56:29]  Like, were you late to the party in Hollywood with Harvey Weinstein when Rose McGowan came out and accused Harvey Weinstein of raping her?
[01:56:37]  Was she late to the party?
[01:56:39]  You know, and it was like, that is the one problem I have with, you know, sort of comments about like that, because, and even the movie where they had this young woman blame her harassment, some fictional woman on me in the movie, that's just never the way this movement shook out.
[01:56:54]  No woman who has come forward to say me too has then turned around, let's say she's victim number 16 and blamed victims one through 15.
[01:57:04]  The blame goes on the guy, the guy doing it and the system that protects him.
[01:57:09]  It doesn't go on the other victims who up until now didn't even see.
[01:57:14]  Standing up as an option, right?
[01:57:17]  Like late to what party?
[01:57:20]  Seriously, like what happened to me?
[01:57:24]  I kept a journal and kept a record.
[01:57:26]  I consulted a lawyer and opened up a case file.
[01:57:30]  I went to my supervisor and told.
[01:57:33]  I confided in other colleagues.
[01:57:35]  What more should I have done?
[01:57:37]  Right?
[01:57:37]  I like, I can argue both sides.
[01:57:38]  I can beat myself up and say I should have set myself on fire to call attention to it.
[01:57:42]  But realistically, the lawyer in me knows.
[01:57:45]  That was an impossibility.
[01:57:46]  He was the most powerful man in news.
[01:57:48]  It was an impossibility.
[01:57:50]  And there was no clear roadmap for doing that and having any sort of meaningful professional life thereafter.
[01:57:58]  Yeah.
[01:57:59]  I mean, absolutely.
[01:58:00]  I agree.
[01:58:02]  You just do the best you can with the circumstances that you're under and the experience that you've had before that.
[01:58:09]  And like I said, I mean, what I went through with Roger, I could tell many stories of other people.
[01:58:15]  Terrible men that have done way worse.
[01:58:18]  And I always, through my career, just tried to like either get away from it or just forge through and, you know, just hope that I had the ability, the wherewithal to make the right decision.
[01:58:32]  So, no one, you know, I used to be bothered by that too, like, oh, why didn't you quit?
[01:58:37]  Well, you know what?
[01:58:39]  That's a really complicated answer.
[01:58:41]  Would you really like to spend some time with me and find out why I didn't quit instead of just judging me?
[01:58:47]  You know, so I've heard about you.
[01:58:50]  I, you know, we both wrote about it.
[01:58:53]  I don't think I could ever, I can't read about it.
[01:58:56]  I can't read what I wrote.
[01:58:58]  Are you able to do that?
[01:58:59]  No, I never go back and read it.
[01:59:00]  Nope.
[01:59:01]  I can't do it.
[01:59:01]  I mean, this is, I was actually not nervous, but anxious about our conversation just because, you know, we watched that movie and I was in hysterics afterwards, almost, you know, sort of panic attack.
[01:59:14]  Sean was there and I just had to like go get some air.
[01:59:17]  It was, It's very difficult.
[01:59:20]  It's well, this is the first time we've talked about it together publicly.
[01:59:23]  I, when you released your book, I wasn't on the air.
[01:59:27]  And when I did my reaction to the bombshell movie, which is on YouTube, I couldn't have you because you're at Fox and it was, you know, they didn't, I don't think they, I felt it would be futile to ask them for you about that particular subject.
[01:59:42]  I knew we'd get a day.
[01:59:43]  And to Fox's credit, they're letting you be here now and they did let you write about it, they let me write about it.
[01:59:48]  And, you know, I will just say one other thing.
[01:59:51]  I mean, not for nothing, but perhaps appropriately, in order to get you here, we had to ask for permission from Irina Briganti, who is the head of PR at Fox.
[02:00:02]  And she's in the movie Bombshell.
[02:00:05]  And I've publicly said unkind things about her because I didn't think she was supportive of the women at Fox during the whole thing.
[02:00:13]  And she's denied my charges against her and so on.
[02:00:16]  But I will tell you now, I look at her differently.
[02:00:20]  And not just because she let you come on the show.
[02:00:24]  I actually see Irina as having been victimized by him too.
[02:00:30]  He controlled her world, her paycheck, everything, and her entire career.
[02:00:37]  And that situation was so pressure filled, you know, her, you know, expected to be loyal to him.
[02:00:43]  That's what was expected that prior to that day, during that time, and for a while thereafter.
[02:00:48]  And so I'm sure it was an enormous challenge for her to handle too.
[02:00:51]  And she probably had no one to talk to about it.
[02:00:54]  And I'll tell you what really made me reevaluate her, which my two years at NBC, if you really want to love the way somebody handles PR, like she's a master at it, you know, like she, I have newfound respect for how she handles incoming.
[02:01:07]  Attacks on her talent because she does sort of sit in a room all day with a machine gun trained on the outside world as they come after Fox.
[02:01:14]  Sometimes the machine gun can kind of waver inside a little, but nobody's perfect.
[02:01:22]  And anyway, just for the record, since I've said unkind things about her, I kind of wanted to get on the record that I think I understand her better.
[02:01:30]  And maybe one of these days we'll all go have a cocktail or something, JD.
[02:01:35]  She's always been good to me.
[02:01:36]  She's always been very kind.
[02:01:37]  And I'm grateful for that, you know, like especially with the Cuomo stuff, you know, this is.
[02:01:41]  This is difficult for Fox too, because, you know, I'm going out there and I'm trying to be an advocate.
[02:01:46]  That's a strange place for Fox to be in, or somebody in PR that's trying to, you know, I'm essentially like a talent that works there, but I'm also somebody that's very vocal about the governor of New York.
[02:02:00]  That, I mean, for them to be, you know, very open and very willing to, you know, let me do that on behalf of my family, I'm grateful.
[02:02:10]  I'm so grateful.
[02:02:11]  And she's certainly been one of the people that has, You know, spoken on my behalf.
[02:02:18]  Well, if you get in a dogfight, she's a great person to have on your team.
[02:02:20]  That's for sure.
[02:02:21]  To have to be in the bunker with you to mix my metaphors.

=== A Cautionary Tale Of Aging (12:24) ===

[02:02:24]  Can we talk just for a minute about being on camera and aging?
[02:02:32]  You turned 50 in May.
[02:02:35]  I'm staring down it right now, right?
[02:02:38]  It's coming next Wednesday, JD November 50.
[02:02:43]  But I'm actually okay.
[02:02:44]  I consider it my fucking 50s, and I'm saying, bring it on.
[02:02:48]  Bring it.
[02:02:49]  You look amazing.
[02:02:52]  Listen, I'm there.
[02:02:53]  I'm glad I'm there.
[02:02:54]  I'm embracing it.
[02:02:56]  Talk to me when I'm 60.
[02:02:58]  We'll see how that goes.
[02:03:01]  But listen, it's hard.
[02:03:02]  We're in a business where we are looked at on a daily basis.
[02:03:07]  You try to look your best.
[02:03:09]  I've always had a pretty good gene pool.
[02:03:11]  I think a pretty good gene pool.
[02:03:12]  I've definitely struggled with my weight over the years.
[02:03:15]  I've gotten to a point where it's like, I'm not going to be a thin mint, but I'm okay with that.
[02:03:18]  I'm all right.
[02:03:20]  I just want to be healthy for my family.
[02:03:24]  But yes, of course, you try to do things that are going to, you know, stop the aging process a little bit.
[02:03:31]  And I know what you're getting to.
[02:03:33]  I mean, listen.
[02:03:34]  Well, listen.
[02:03:35]  I mean, you and I always talk about like cosmetic options, right?
[02:03:39]  Like we don't want to go under the knife necessarily, although I'm not a post.
[02:03:42]  I'm not a post.
[02:03:43]  But like, I have Botox.
[02:03:46]  I don't like filler.
[02:03:49]  But people will ask me a lot.
[02:03:50]  And you know what I do like?
[02:03:51]  It's something called skin tight, the skin tight laser.
[02:03:54]  And it's, It doesn't hurt.
[02:03:56]  It just warms up your skin.
[02:03:57]  It's like this thing they put all over your face and it warms up your skin.
[02:04:00]  And apparently, it stimulates collagen.
[02:04:01]  But these things are damn expensive.
[02:04:03]  So, I wouldn't be doing this if I were, you know, the 22 year old me.
[02:04:07]  Of course, I wouldn't need it because I'd be young.
[02:04:10]  But anyway, so it's expensive.
[02:04:11]  I'll say that up front, but it does work.
[02:04:14]  And so obviously, when you're on camera, there's even more pressure to stay looking good.
[02:04:19]  And you and I talked about one of your insecurities, which was your neck.
[02:04:24]  You had some lines going like from left to right, like a tree cross.
[02:04:28]  Across your neck.
[02:04:31]  They were not like a tree cross.
[02:04:32]  Yes, let's be honest.
[02:04:33]  I mean, even when I was a kid, I had these like weird, there's an actual like real name for what it's called, but I refuse to find out what it's called.
[02:04:43]  It's just like tree trunk lines.
[02:04:45]  You don't need to know.
[02:04:47]  And of course, when I get older, it's more prominent because on top of those tree trunk lines, there's like, you know, crepey skin.
[02:04:54]  And, you know, since I met my husband, he always knew.
[02:04:58]  Like it was so funny because when I was talking to him just a few years ago, talking about maybe getting a neck lift, you know, not a facelift, just a neck lift, because I Hate my neck.
[02:05:08]  I'm definitely going to get a facelift.
[02:05:10]  When I turn 60, I'm totally getting a facelift.
[02:05:11]  I'm just putting that out there, right?
[02:05:12]  And I'm going to be like Kris Jenner.
[02:05:14]  Like I'm going to walk everybody through it.
[02:05:15]  You can see the before and after.
[02:05:17]  I think by that time, they'll probably have perfected it a little bit because, you know, I will look at stars that have gotten stuff done and been like, it looks good, but there's something weird about it.
[02:05:29]  They looked like they've been pulled too tightly.
[02:05:30]  Something.
[02:05:31]  But I love Dolly Parton.
[02:05:32]  Like from the very beginning, like 20 years ago, she's like, I've been nipped.
[02:05:37]  Tucked and sucked, you know, like I just she's totally embraced it.
[02:05:41]  Um, as so, yeah, she says in the character of Steel Magnolias when she's in that movie, it takes some effort to look like this.
[02:05:50]  That's right, and it's true, it's very true.
[02:05:53]  And my husband has always known that I've had this issue with my neck, so I always would ask the doctor who would do the Botox, I do Botox, um, and I'm open with that.
[02:06:04]  I've never done the filler before, but I was, I would always say to him, like.
[02:06:09]  Have they come out with anything that can do something with this?
[02:06:12]  And I would like, you know, this neck of mine.
[02:06:15]  But one day when I would go in and I'd be like on my 20th time of saying to him, Can you do something about this neck?
[02:06:23]  He said, You know what?
[02:06:25]  What?
[02:06:27]  And he told me about this procedure that was like newly out, you know, and it was quote unquote non invasive.
[02:06:35]  So it, you know, it's not really a facelift.
[02:06:38]  It wouldn't take weeks and weeks of recovery time.
[02:06:40]  It was, you know, you, It was in the office and you would be put under anesthesia, but it was a very simple procedure in and out.
[02:06:48]  And you would need a long weekend to kind of recover from it.
[02:06:52]  I'm like, sign me up, doc.
[02:06:54]  Sounds amazing.
[02:06:57]  So he gave me paperwork to sign.
[02:06:59]  I looked over it.
[02:07:00]  He basically said, This is safe.
[02:07:02]  It looks like it's effective.
[02:07:04]  It's sort of brand new.
[02:07:06]  You'd be sort of like one of my first people, but I'm confident.
[02:07:09]  And there's, like you said, it's going to stimulate your collagen and how long it'll last for a couple of years and nobody will know.
[02:07:16]  And then I went and did it.
[02:07:19]  And I remember my husband picked me up afterwards, and my one part of my face was like so swollen.
[02:07:26]  It was, it looked, I looked really, he just was like, Are you okay?
[02:07:31]  Like, oh, okay, you know.
[02:07:36]  And I wasn't okay.
[02:07:39]  I was, you know, I, it went wrong.
[02:07:43]  It went wrong.
[02:07:44]  And, you know, a few years later, I'm learning that.
[02:07:48]  Even though I signed on the dotted line to all of these wrists undergoing a procedure like this, it was very invasive.
[02:07:56]  The doctor used heat to intentionally destroy tissue, he cut.
[02:08:02]  My skin, I have scars on my neck from the place where he went in with a tube.
[02:08:08]  And I'm learning about the device.
[02:08:10]  The device was very controversial and went through FDA loopholes to be considered quote unquote safe, but it wasn't safe.
[02:08:22]  It's called FaceTight and Fractora.
[02:08:25]  So it was these two combined things.
[02:08:29]  And both procedures use a medical device by this company called Invasics.
[02:08:35]  So, I'm learning about these things because I am involved in a lawsuit with several other women.
[02:08:41]  I remember after this happened to you, you were like, MK, it's like, of course, you're following and you're worried when your friend gets a cosmetic procedure.
[02:08:50]  And, you know, you just assume it's going to turn out right.
[02:08:52]  But, like, I always thought, and I think you thought the biggest risk was, like, maybe it's just like it won't work that well.
[02:08:58]  Or, you know, maybe there's like a little downtime afterward, whatever.
[02:09:02]  Not that, like, something's going to really go wrong.
[02:09:05]  And, I we met, remember we met at Sarah Bess and it looked like you had Bell's palsy.
[02:09:10]  It was like, what's going on?
[02:09:11]  You like the one side of your mouth, the left side would not lift.
[02:09:15]  You would smile and it would only go, it would only go up and the left side wouldn't move at all.
[02:09:20]  It's like, it was terrifying.
[02:09:22]  So I've only had two anxiety panic attacks in my life.
[02:09:28]  The one was the Roger Ailes thing, and the second one was doing this procedure.
[02:09:34]  I was off work for two months.
[02:09:36]  I remember the day I tried to go back to work.
[02:09:39]  And they, you know, they, they, you know, it looked okay when I wasn't talking.
[02:09:45]  But, you know, when you're on television, you project, right?
[02:09:47]  You're not just in a conversation.
[02:09:49]  You're like, here's the West Coast and there's a storm coming in from the Pacific.
[02:09:53]  You know, you're exaggerated.
[02:09:55]  And I just remember I was slurring my words.
[02:09:58]  It sounded like I was drunk and the side of my face was not working properly.
[02:10:04]  And I was mortified.
[02:10:07]  I turned to one side for the whole report because I was just so.
[02:10:12]  Freaked out that I, you know, that I was deformed on television.
[02:10:17]  When you had to go over to like the west coast of the map, you were like, nope, just nope, you can figure it out.
[02:10:22]  It's way over there by California, exactly.
[02:10:26]  Thankfully, you know, I, my bosses, Lauren Pedersen and, and you know, Suzanne Scott had to know as well, and they were so supportive.
[02:10:35]  I just felt so embarrassed.
[02:10:37]  I was afraid to tell my mom.
[02:10:39]  I remember, you know, going, I was, it was really.
[02:10:43]  I mean, I just thought to myself, all these things going through your mind, like, how could I be that vain to do something like this?
[02:10:49]  And I remember talking to my mom.
[02:10:50]  That is not the right question.
[02:10:51]  That is not the right question.
[02:10:52]  But you do.
[02:10:53]  It's a visual business.
[02:10:54]  It's a visual business.
[02:10:55]  And, you know, even if you're not on television, if you want to do it to make yourself feel good, there's, you know, yes, you should look into the medical risks.
[02:11:02]  But I don't think women should be shamed for being vain when they do something like that.
[02:11:07]  If it's not over the top and Kardashian like, I don't think it's controversial.
[02:11:11]  You know, my bottom line here is, Absolutely, do what makes you feel good.
[02:11:15]  I'm not against plastic surgery or any of those helpers that make us feel good and look good.
[02:11:21]  I guess my bottom line is read what you're signing to.
[02:11:28]  And before I was always like, well, I blame myself because I signed away, but I did not know some of the details on the equipment that was used on me, which was not safe.
[02:11:41]  And that's why many of us are trying to do something because.
[02:11:47]  You know, these doctors can use devices that are not really looked at at the FDA.
[02:11:53]  And that's the scary part.
[02:11:55]  That's the scary part.
[02:11:56]  That is scary.
[02:11:57]  It is a well, I remember what I remember about that time is you were emailing your doctor, like, When's it going to start moving again?
[02:12:05]  And he kept saying, like, another couple days or two weeks, two weeks, two weeks.
[02:12:09]  And nothing changed.
[02:12:11]  It wasn't even getting better.
[02:12:12]  So it was like, for there's a period there, we were like, this could be permanent.
[02:12:15]  This could be the permanent state of your face.
[02:12:17]  Like, it's not improving at all.
[02:12:19]  And you finally said, it's not changing.
[02:12:23]  I don't, forgive me, I don't remember exactly the words, but something like, it's not getting better.
[02:12:26]  And he said something to the effect of, I'm praying for you.
[02:12:32]  Namaste.
[02:12:33]  Which is not what anyone wants to hear from their plastic surgeon or dermatologist, whatever he was.
[02:12:39]  Oh, my God.
[02:12:40]  Don't say namaste and don't say praying.
[02:12:43]  No, it was not good.
[02:12:44]  A man of science.
[02:12:45]  Well, and that was Sean's other day where he was like, I better not meet this doctor in the street because.
[02:12:53]  Yeah.
[02:12:55]  So listen.
[02:12:56]  It did go away.
[02:12:57]  We should state for the record.
[02:12:58]  Here's the thing.
[02:12:59]  You look amazing.
[02:13:00]  But there is still a little bit of damage.
[02:13:03]  That's the thing is that there are still scars, and my smile is not 100%, unfortunately.
[02:13:10]  And my husband will tell me, like, there are certain times where he'll see me and go, It's unfortunately, you know, yes, 90% is there, but there's a 10% there that still isn't 100%.
[02:13:22]  And it's just a cautionary tale to, you know, just be careful.
[02:13:27]  And I hope, on behalf of all these women that were really injured, I mean, my injuries compared to the other ladies are really quite something.
[02:13:35]  So, I haven't reached out to them.
[02:13:37]  I'm sure they're going to deny this, just for the record.
[02:13:39]  Of course.
[02:13:40]  You're the lawyer, but you were also the one that gave me very good advice to go get a second opinion.
[02:13:48]  So that was a smart move.
[02:13:52]  If something happens, then it's always good to go get a second or a third opinion because that will help you down the line if you are doing something that I am, which is trying to hold these people accountable.
[02:14:05]  Yeah.
[02:14:06]  Oh, it's like it is scary because it's like you really are rolling the dice when you mess with your face.
[02:14:11]  And especially if you're on TV, but in any event, everybody wants their face to look good.
[02:14:15]  I remember not long after I got into television, I was looking at my face on camera.
[02:14:18]  I'm like, why is my left eyebrow so much higher than my right eyebrow?
[02:14:23]  And you just start noticing all of the irregularities of your face.
[02:14:27]  And I always knew that my left side was more attractive than my right side.
[02:14:30]  So I would always try to show the left, you know, even like the little picture of my face on the show photo.
[02:14:36]  There's a reason it's my left profile because I'm hideous on the right side.
[02:14:39]  I don't know what happened.
[02:14:40]  I am.
[02:14:41]  Something happened in my mother's womb.
[02:14:43]  And I was at a photo shoot one time, and the guy's taking my picture, and he's like, Oh, yeah, I see what you mean.

=== Cherishing Our Friendship And Bond (04:51) ===

[02:14:48]  Yeah.
[02:14:49]  Okay.
[02:14:49]  A little bit more profile.
[02:14:50]  A little bit more.
[02:14:51]  A little bit more.
[02:14:52]  More.
[02:14:53]  More.
[02:14:53]  I was like, What am I?
[02:14:54]  Like, the phantom of the opera is here.
[02:14:57]  Oh, you're just ridiculous.
[02:15:01]  Well, we've been through it all.
[02:15:03]  Honestly, she talks about, you know, this is for the audience.
[02:15:06]  She talks about me being godmama to Theodore, and she's godmama to Thatcher.
[02:15:12]  And we went through our pregnancies together.
[02:15:14]  You know, she was there when Yardley was born.
[02:15:16]  Yardley and Theodore are only six weeks apart, and he came first, and then she came.
[02:15:19]  And she came to my hospital bed, and I went to her hospital bed and held our little babes.
[02:15:24]  You know, the parents out there know what it's like those first few moments and days when you're so vulnerable and you're so happy and you're also so emotional, and, you know, like the bond with your friends and the people who come through.
[02:15:36]  It's just like a special moment.
[02:15:38]  I have to tell the story.
[02:15:40]  This is a great lead into when I was in the hospital with Theodore.
[02:15:45]  And you were very pregnant, and Sean had to go.
[02:15:48]  Well, he had to go do something with Matthew because I had another boy who was two years old at the time.
[02:15:55]  So he had to go somewhere, and I was alone in the hospital room.
[02:15:59]  And man, I feel for women when it comes to this.
[02:16:02]  You don't know how many, no matter how many times you do it, being alone in the hospital with your baby who's crying and you don't quite know what to do and you're trying to get the breastfeeding right and there's so much pressure on you.
[02:16:12]  And I was sitting there, I was probably almost like in tears myself because Theodore was like crying and crying.
[02:16:18]  And it was late, like you were coming after your show and he was crying and you walked in.
[02:16:23]  And I just remember you just came over and you scooped him up and you just started singing to him.
[02:16:28]  And I think it was like, on a star.
[02:16:35]  Yes.
[02:16:35]  Carry moonbeams home in a jar.
[02:16:39]  And be better off than you are.
[02:16:43]  Right.
[02:16:43]  So, Doug's dad used to love.
[02:16:46]  Well, you sang that to him and he stopped crying.
[02:16:48]  And I was just like, oh, you're the godmother.
[02:16:53]  You're the godmother.
[02:16:55]  It was just a beautiful moment.
[02:16:56]  It was just, I'll always remember that for the rest of my life.
[02:16:59]  It was just, you know, and then you brought snacks.
[02:17:02]  I remember you raided like one of the vending machines and you brought like, Little cookies.
[02:17:06]  And so, I, you know, your audience knows you.
[02:17:09]  Everyone loves you, obviously, that listens to your podcast.
[02:17:11]  But I hope that I'm able to, you know, give these moments of like, you are a very special person, you know, to me in my life and my family.
[02:17:24]  And I just want the, you know, if you get anything from this, realize that, you know, our friendship is real, it's forever.
[02:17:32]  And you are a wonderful human being that I am so grateful.
[02:17:38]  That's in my life.
[02:17:39]  JD, thank you.
[02:17:41]  Thank you so much.
[02:17:42]  You know, I feel the same about you.
[02:17:43]  I'm so grateful to have you in my life and Sean and the boys.
[02:17:48]  Doug and I love you guys so much.
[02:17:50]  And I just love what you're doing out there.
[02:17:52]  And I think you're right that some of these experiences you went through from the home invasion to the harassment to the Don Imus thing to the Roger Ailes thing it's all brought you to this moment where you have to take on the most powerful man in the state of New York.
[02:18:07]  Who's from a powerful family and may have an even bigger political future ahead of him.
[02:18:14]  But there's, again, mostly Sonny, who sometimes is a little cloudy.
[02:18:19]  Sometimes there's a thunderstorm abrew.
[02:18:22]  And it made me think of the just like all the stuff you've done and the ale thing.
[02:18:28]  Misty Copeland, the ballerina, she said something like anything is possible when you have the right people there to support you.
[02:18:35]  And I feel like that's so true of our friendship and our relationship.
[02:18:40]  Damn grateful for it.
[02:18:42]  Love you, lady.
[02:18:42]  Me too, lady.
[02:18:43]  I love you too.
[02:18:46]  My thanks again to Janice.
[02:18:47]  I always say about Janice, if you don't get along with Janice Dean, it's you.
[02:18:51]  And now you can see why.
[02:18:53]  Oh, and by the way, Governor Cuomo, it's you.
[02:18:56]  Before we go, today's episode was brought to you in part by Black Rifle Coffee.
[02:19:00]  Roasted by veterans, Black Rifle Coffee is the freshest brew in America.
[02:19:04]  Go to blackriflecoffee.com slash MK to get yours now.
[02:19:09]  Don't forget to tune into the show on Facebook.
[02:19:11]  Monday.
[02:19:12]  Very excited to be talking to Professor Glenn Lowry and Coleman Hughes, superstars, together.
[02:19:20]  I have so much I want to go over with them.
[02:19:23]  They are two of the smartest people.
[02:19:24]  I listened to them all summer long when we were going through all the riots and stuff.
[02:19:28]  I just learned so much and I've been dying to bring them to you.
[02:19:32]  And I'm thrilled I get to talk to them together.
[02:19:34]  So please don't miss that.
[02:19:35]  And you can make sure you don't miss that by subscribing to the show.
[02:19:38]  Do it now.
[02:19:39]  Subscribe.

=== Hearing Your Reactions Now (00:26) ===

[02:19:40]  And you have to download the show, rate the show five stars if you please.
[02:19:44]  And if you want to add a review in there, I would love to hear from you.
[02:19:47]  I really would love, love, love to hear you.
[02:19:49]  I'd love to hear the reactions to the show or any particular thoughts you have.
[02:19:52]  And I hope in the meantime, you have a great weekend.
[02:19:55]  Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.
[02:19:58]  No BS, no agenda, and no fear.
[02:20:02]  The Megyn Kelly Show is a devil-may-care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures.