She’s never been afraid to speak her mind—and now, Tomi Lahren, brings the heat to YES or NO. In this unfiltered episode, Michael Knowles and Tomi, host of 'Tomi Lahren is Fearless' on Outkick.com, face off on the hottest political and cultural debates—from feminism and immigration to the 2024 election and cancel culture. No topic is off-limits. Will Tomi stand her ground, or will the panel push back? You decide.
Listen now and sound off in the comments with YOUR takes!
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Does a woman's body count matter if she has truly changed her ways?
My husband was previously married.
I prefer that.
I prefer that.
I prefer that he's been married and divorced.
I prefer that he's been married and divorced.
Welcome to Yes or No, the bibulous battle to discover who knows whom better.
My guest today, a woman who needs no introduction, Tommy Lauren.
How do we play?
I will ask Tommy a yes or no question.
She will select her answer away from my prying eyes.
Then, I'll guess how she answered.
If I guess correctly, I get a point.
If I guess incorrectly, I lose a point.
No matter what, I'll probably end up drinking.
Then, it's Tommy's turn.
Neither of us has seen the questions beforehand.
Whoever has the most points at the end wins.
The stakes could be higher.
Let's get started.
Tommy, thank you for being here.
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited about this.
I didn't know there would be cards and a board game involved.
And booze, but you have an unfair advantage over me.
Yeah.
You're having water.
I'm having water, staying hydrated.
Why are you having water for this game?
Well, it's a Tuesday at 2, and I'll be driving to Brentwood.
Hold on.
You're going to tell on me to the whole audience out there.
That's all right.
But I'm boozing at work.
Sometimes we've had to film this at like 9 o'clock in the morning, and I say I'm a man of my word.
I'll drink the martini, and the rest of the day is useless.
Listen, it's your game.
You get to make the rules.
This is it.
I don't know the rules.
You've been briefed on the rules, though.
I have been lightly briefed on the rules, so I hope that I don't mess it up.
But it sounds like you might not be fully, you know, convinced of what we're doing either.
No, and I'm sober right now, and I still don't know how to play.
I do know you're a lady, so you go first.
All right.
do most men assume that blondes are less intelligent than brunettes I said yes.
And I answered that you said yes.
You said yes.
Okay, Tommy got it right.
And I have to drink.
I do think that men think, rightly or wrongly, they assume that if a girl is blonde, she's less smart.
And I don't think it's about the blonde so much as the brunette.
Brunette gives to me an aura of bookishness.
Okay.
Is that fair?
Or is it a terrible prejudice?
I would think, because when I, I'll tell you this.
I go to New York and I don't see any blondes there, any variation of blondes there.
I see a lot of darker-haired women there.
And I'm not talking about the model scene.
I'm talking about your everyday people.
Okay.
And I don't see a lot of blondes.
And for me, my perspective, when I go there, it's completely different than in Nashville or Dallas or even California, where you have a mix of both, but you're going to see a blonde, you know, pretty good chance you're going to see a blonde.
Not in New York.
And to me, when I see a lot of brunettes, I don't assume that they are more intelligent, but they just don't seem like they're having as much fun.
And I know that that's, again, that's a cliche.
They seem maybe more serious.
You're severe.
I don't think it means that you're smarter.
I just think it means that you take yourself maybe a little bit too seriously.
Now, these are New York brunettes.
That's just my perception, because there's not a lot of blondes there, not a lot of redheads there, a lot of brunettes there.
So I don't know if that translates into intelligence.
I'll tell you this.
Blondes like to be underestimated.
Professionally, personally, I like if people think I'm stupid maybe on first glance.
That's fine with me.
That gives me an advantage.
If you go in underestimating me, I would prefer that, right?
But I also can have a smile on my face, be blonde, enjoy it.
My hair is actually darker than it normally is, by the way.
It's not in an attempt to look smarter.
It's just I like to change it up.
But I find that blondes also appreciate maybe aesthetics more.
And again, that's a regional thing.
But I don't find that people maybe in New York, I don't think, you know, that maybe they're as into aesthetics as Dallas, Nashville.
They're more there.
California, Miami.
Yes.
It's much more plain, which is fine, but I've just noticed that.
Should I go blonde?
I think you should.
I should.
Maybe some highlights.
Tips, like in the 2000s, yeah.
The 2000s are back.
Then I could be underestimated.
That would be good.
Okay.
Are female pilots the new Asian drivers?
hmm Yeah, Raw, really?
Okay, you say no.
Yes, I say no.
Okay.
That I think the stereotype is that Asian drivers are not very good at operating cars.
Okay.
Do you not, that's a stereotype.
Okay.
Do you not think there's a stereotype that the female pilots are a little weaker?
That could be a stereotype.
I don't think it's the new thing, though.
I've been very vocal about this.
I've been very vocal about this.
I understand when the right makes arguments about DEI.
I'm not a DEI person either.
I don't like it.
I like merit.
I don't like that we went full DEI 2020 through 2024.
I don't like it.
However, I think that the right runs the risk of overusing DEI as an excuse for everything that goes wrong.
I think that immediately when something goes wrong, you go, oh, it must be a DEI hire.
I think that that cheapens the argument.
So, and I also, I know I don't care that our Secretary of Defense said the boys are coming home and there was a female pilot, but I think it would be fair to say we reportedly did have a female flying one of the B-2s that dropped bombs on Iran.
So I think that's a testament to the skill of female pilots.
I know that.
I know that we, in principle, have female pilots.
I didn't know one of them was flying the B-2.
Yeah.
Wow.
Female pilots, at least in the military, are often very revered.
So.
Hell hath no fury, like a woman's score.
But I will say that.
Right over the Ayatollah, I don't like when you have certain airlines that are like, this is an all-female crew and we must hail that and this is an all, we must all have a gay crew and all that.
That makes me nervous because if you're doing it, you're trying to assemble a crew to say that you did something historic.
Now I'm a little concerned.
But I am not one of those people that sees a female pilot and is then concerned.
Would you say women are not as good at driving cars as men?
On certain aspects, we're not great with curbs.
I'm personally not great with curbs.
I can't parallel park.
If I am in a situation where I have to parallel park, I will leave.
Because I know my limits and I'm not going to even attempt them.
I'm not going to that party.
Yeah, okay, all right, fair enough.
All right.
We have a video prompt, so we have to watch first.
Golson had it knocked away.
Good hands by Allen.
And Jelly comes up with his deal.
We got another rickety tear.
Jamesy Jilling goes right after Tokyo coming in.
It was a hard fountain.
What really got this escalated, so that was called a flagrant.
Those two were technicals.
Charles got a technical, and then Mayberry for what we thought should have been.
This is the most anyone has ever watched of the WNBA.
Well, don't give away your answer then, because you have to lock them in.
You might have just given me.
You might have just given me a tell there.
But go ahead, you got to lock them in.
Wait, so what's the prompt?
You kind of answered it, so that's why I already thought.
Does this finally make the WNBA bearable to watch?
Oh, the fight.
Okay, kind of fight.
Even in the video evidence we just saw.
Does it, does this, I think you're supposed to lock in your answer and then pontificate.
Does it...
I didn't hesitate.
You saw it.
You could read through my soul.
By your reaction?
Yes.
This is a tough one because we have spent on the right years now defending women's sports.
But this is a little confession.
I don't care about women's sports at all.
I don't care about it at all.
I love Riley Gaines.
I care about justice.
I don't want transvestites doing weird stuff in the pool or whatever.
But I don't, it is not possible for me to care less about women's sports.
I'm right there with you.
Okay.
So I want there to be fairness, especially for young female athletes, because whereas I don't think many are going to go professional, I think that it's an opportunity for them to build their skills, to work as a team, to try really hard, show determination, resilience.
I think that's important for young women.
I think past the college level, you know, let's be honest, there's not a lot for women after that unless you're going to be an Olympian, which is great.
They're like one of the Williams sisters.
Yes.
They get a pass.
I would also say this.
If I want to watch girls fight, I watch Bravo.
I don't need to watch six foot four girls poking each other in the eye.
I don't consider that entertaining.
I don't like men's basketball either, but I also wouldn't watch women's softball if they were fighting each other.
Like I said, if I want to watch women fight, I will watch Bravo.
It's better produced, more fun, more entertaining.
So I'm right there with you.
More glamorous.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah.
But it's not, because the libs will sometimes say, well, you guys are hypocrites because you don't care about women's work.
I think it's not about the volleyball or whatever.
You know, it's about the justice.
Right.
And the scholarships and the safety.
Yes.
Okay.
All right.
I'm up.
This question requires a video prompt.
This question requires a video prompt.
*Piano music*
They're really making a meal out of a cupcake with these things, aren't they?
Okay.
Is there validity to the claim that we haven't seen the real Joe Biden in quite some time?
I got to guess what you would say.
Okay.
It was fast.
Whatever you answered was fast.
*Bell rings*
Okay.
It's not a fake Biden.
No.
If they made a fake Biden, why would they make that one?
That's exactly my point at it.
If it's going to be a body double, it has to be somebody that's exceptionally better than the real Joe.
That's just a different version of him.
That's medicated, unmedicated, we don't know.
It's all the same.
I liked the Joe Biden State of the Union where the eyes were just popping.
I was shocked.
I mean, a year ago, this week, Joe Biden gave us the performance of a lifetime in that debate.
And I say that he rawdogged that debate.
No stimulants were used, and that was quite obvious.
That was a bold move by his team, I think purposeful.
But no, there's no body double there.
Joe Biden is also on the speaking circuit now because he needs to make that money.
No, he's not.
Is he on the speaking circuit?
Well, he's getting paid to do speeches.
I mean, different groups, right?
Oh, because that is what you do.
You leave the office, you got to fill up the coffers.
But usually that presupposes that you can speak.
Right.
Wow.
I was at the State of the Union two years ago, the one where he was shot up real good with the adrenaline.
And he, I remember I was sitting behind the presidents.
I couldn't see him that well.
I was seeing the reaction of all the Dems.
And he got out there and it was one note the whole time.
It was just, you know, it goes 45 minutes or whatever it is.
It was the opposite of the debate.
And now he's put out to pasture.
Yeah.
Wow.
How much is he being paid for those speeches?
Do we know?
I think, actually, I think it's a considerable amount.
And then he's got writers that include travel, teams, different things like that.
I mean, good for him if people are still willing to pay him.
I like it because it makes Democrats very nervous.
Every time he surfaces, people have to cover it.
Then their lie becomes more obvious, more vivid.
And then they have to talk about it.
And they have to talk about the fact that they lied.
And quite obviously so for at least four years.
Maybe we should hire him.
Hire him to Give a speech.
That's not a bad idea.
Okay, you're up.
Should people with religious beliefs that contradict American values be denied citizenship?
That presupposes they're not citizens already.
I would assume.
*Ding*
Yeah, for sure, right?
Now, would you agree with that?
Now, the way that it's worded, I think, gets us into more discussion needed.
Now, contradict American values.
Does that mean you're chanting death to America, death to Israel, harassing Jewish students, leading protests that are violent in nature?
Then I would say absolutely be denied citizenship.
What if you're not being violent?
You're not directly threatening anyone.
You just believe things that are incommensurate with the American broadly Christian founding ideals.
I don't know if that would be very first amendment of us.
You're not sufficiently authoritarian, Tommy.
John Jay wrote around the founding and the Constitution.
He said, thank God, he said it more eloquently than I am, but he said, thank God that we come from a common stock and we have a shared experience of the revolution and we have the same religion.
And John Adams said, he said, the principles of Christianity are the principles on which independence was won.
John Adams was not an Orthodox Christian by any chance, any stretch.
But they all said, you know, this Christianity thing really matters.
So, I don't want to single out the Muslims, because I like some Muslims, but let's say a Zoroastrian comes here, some real nasty Zoroastrian, you know, and he just doesn't buy the principles on which our country is founded.
Should we say, sorry, buddy, you gotta, you don't need to be a church-going Christian, but you gotta, you gotta get on board, or you're going home to Persia?
I believe in assimilation.
I don't know if you can legislate and dictate that.
Now, that would be a dream world.
It's like everyone comes, wants to assimilate, wants to have American values.
You would assume if you come here that you would have some desire to practice American values and traditions and beliefs.
You would hope that.
However, if you are a fundamentalist Muslim and you believe in Sharia, I would argue that contradicts American values.
So you would say no, you're out.
Do we clear out Michigan?
You know, they're not here yet.
They show up to Ellis Island.
Do you send them packing?
President Tommy.
Yeah, I just don't think you can do it and be a constitutionalist, unfortunately.
We don't need to accept them into the country.
They don't have a right to come here.
I'm not saying the ones that are here.
I agree, it's hard to clear out Dearborn or whatever.
But I'm saying they show up fresh off the boat or however they get it, fresh off the jet plane, and they say, you know, la la la, whatever.
They say something that kind of.
If it were me, President Michael, I would say, hello, nice, hello, nice to meet you.
Go now, you're out of here.
But you would be more open-minded.
I think if you exhibit, and Secretary Rubio has been very forthright about this, if you exhibit behavior that shows that you are a threat, absolutely.
But I don't know if, as a First Amendment person, I don't know if I could be someone that would say, well, you hold this religious belief, so you can't be here.
I think that for me, that would be going too far.
That's very open-minded.
Me, I'm a little more closed-minded.
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Okay, I'm up.
The rise of stay-at-home sons, is that a thing?
The rise of stay-at-home sons will only be fixed if RFK Jr. bans soy and other seed oils.
What does Tommy think about that?
I got it wrong?
What do you mean I got it wrong?
How did I get it wrong?
What do you mean?
Hold on.
That would mean that that condition would be necessary but not sufficient.
So I'm not, we should have cleared this out before.
It's not to say that RFK Jr. banning soy and seed oils would fix the problem.
Okay.
It's to say the problem would not be fixed if RFK does not ban soy and seed oils.
Does that change your answer or no?
I still lost.
So again, the way that the question was worded, I'll just tell you my take on this.
It was poorly worded.
I agree.
It was Davies' fault.
Yes.
Tell you this.
The rise of stay-at-home sons is not going to be solved by banning certain food items, certain soys, nothing.
It's a cultural problem.
You have to address the cultural issues.
There's nothing that you can ban as far as consumption that's going to fix that.
That's what we're doing.
What if you banned pot, porn, and this is alliterative, what's a third P, and playthings like Legos.
I don't know what they do.
These kind of the man children.
What if you banned all that stuff?
Yeah, okay, yeah.
What if you banned all of that?
That would help, wouldn't it?
If you got, frankly, just porn.
If you got rid of porn, I think you would go 40% toward fixing the problem.
I don't know, this new generation, though, I don't know if that's their thing.
I don't know if that's what gets them going.
Honestly, I think laziness does.
I think laziness fuels a lot of the reason that they want to stay home.
They don't want to achieve necessarily.
And I'm not talking, again, this is my biggest pet peeve, is there are some conservative men in our space that when I say those things, they go, you hate men.
Okay, calm down, Chads.
No, what I'm saying is we have a cultural problem in which some young men, especially the generations that are coming up now, the alphas, the Gen Zs, right?
There are a Significant amount that do not want to achieve, attain, they don't want to be exceptional, they don't want to be masculine, they don't want to be leaders of family and household.
I think that's a problem.
Now, I get eviscerated for this, but when I say that women don't have much to choose from, I'm not saying women are perfect.
So, I'm glad that I get to clear this up.
We have plenty of cultural rot on the female side.
Trust and believe I agree with you.
I'm talking about women who uphold their end of the bargain, that are looking for a man who is masculine, who wants to be leader of household.
They are not finding the same swath that maybe they once could, because it doesn't exist.
Okay, so then how do you, let's say, so the men don't want the women because they say the women are all promiscuous and gold diggers.
And the women don't want the men because they say they're all man-children and they're degenerate and they're mommy's boys.
So you have this problem, you have a game of chicken, and neither side is going to budge.
So then how do you solve the problem?
It's a cultural problem.
But how do you fix the culture?
Well, little by little.
I think that the mega movement has done a lot for young men.
I think the mega movement has done a lot to inspire young men to want to be leader of household, to be a provider, to be a stable man.
I think it's done a lot.
Now we've got a ways to go.
And I don't think, by the way, that women are blameless in this.
I think mothers might be a big part of the problem.
They're over-mothering.
So when people go, oh, you don't blame women.
No, I do.
I blame mothers.
I blame mothers.
I blame mothers who coddle their sons.
Yeah, I've seen men of these generations ruined, ruined by over-mothering.
And I love, look, I love my mother.
I'm a good Italian boy.
I love my mother.
I love my grandmothers.
But I have seen how it can go.
Truly, if you said, pick the one thing that ruined that kid, I would say the mother was too indulgent.
Yeah.
Wow.
I think it's a problem.
Now again, every time I say this, the men on conservative Twitter come after me.
Oh, she's a feminist.
She's a covert feminist.
I don't understand what's feminists saying.
Listen, I think Republicans are the new feminists because we're the only ones that stand up for women's sports and spaces.
I'm not the leftist definition of a feminist.
But would you say, I would say I'm not a feminist.
I would say I'm not a feminist at all.
I think feminism is wrong.
They used to do this thing where they'd say, I like the second wave, but not the third wave.
I like the first wave, but not the, but I think it's all wrong.
Mary Wollstonecraft, totally wrong.
Because it seems to me feminism says men and women are basically the same.
Anything you can do, I can do equally.
But I don't think that's true.
I think men and women are different.
I think there's some things women do, I can't do.
Some things I can do that women generally can't do.
And we are complementary.
It's just a different view of human nature.
But you're fairly traditional.
I mean, you're famous and everything go on TV.
But you hold to generally traditional views of men and women.
Right.
So you're not, you wouldn't say you're a feminist, or would you?
I would say in the, like I said, I think that Republicans are hijacking feminism the way that the left hijacked rainbows and our sports.
And I think that Republicans and conservatives are taking it back because to me, a feminist in 2025 means somebody who stands up for women's sports and spaces.
So that to me, if that's how I'm defining it, which is, again, I'm saying we're taking it over, then yes, I am.
Now, here is where I sometimes butt heads with some of the, like I say, conservative Twitter, male conservative Twitter, right?
I don't believe that women should inherently make less, stay at home, live to be mothers.
That's the extent of your personality, persona, identity.
I don't believe- I believe in everybody being able to do what they want to do, as long as it doesn't negatively impact society at large, right?
So that's my conservative belief.
But doesn't it all...
Doesn't it like the kids we were just talking about, the boys living in their mother's basement, they're doing what they want to do.
So they say.
They want to play video games, eat chicken nuggets.
It is, ostensibly it's not impacting society at large.
But it is, because you've got all these men who should be acting like men out of the dating pool.
So now the women are saying, well, I got to pick from a bunch of losers and I want that.
And then no one's having kids, and society crumbles.
So in a way, it's like there's almost no way to have a private sin because it's all affecting society.
So then we don't want them to just do that.
We want them to be men.
We want them to flourish.
And we want the women to have the giga chads that they can marry.
And then the women are like really good.
But so, doesn't, if you left women up to their devices, wouldn't most of them prefer to stay home, raise kids, get married, over working in a corporate job?
I would disagree with that.
You don't think so?
No.
You think they would take the corporate job?
Not everyone.
I think that it would be a pretty 50-50 split.
Yeah.
For me, and again, they're going to eviscerate me for this.
You're a little different, though.
Just get ready.
Just get ready for it.
Okay.
I personally am not somebody who has grown up like I'm born to be a mother and a wife, and that is my goal.
That has never been me.
And conservative male Twitter be damned.
I don't care if you don't like that.
But aren't you?
We're both friends with a lot of women who go on TV and who are politicians and who are big fans.
But you would admit, and I'm very close friends with many such women.
You're the exception, not the rule.
You write.
You disagree.
I disagree with you.
Like I said, I think if you asked women, would you rather be a stay-at-home mom or would you rather be read?
I'm not necessarily saying an executive, but would you rather exist in the business world?
And I'm not saying that that means that if you exist in the business world that you're childless and unmarried.
Yeah, yeah.
I think you can have it all.
I do believe that you can.
You can, as you just said, not an executive, not a superstar, Tommy Lauren, goes on TV, everyone knows your name.
You're a middle manager at the Widget Factory, and you do spreadsheets and stuff like that.
You make a decent salary, but not a ton.
And you have a few kids.
And your husband's working, too.
You gotta, either you're gonna stay home with your kid or you're gonna put your kid in daycare.
Plenty of women put their kids in daycare.
But you can't totally have it all, can you?
You can't be Donna Reid and Margaret Thatcher.
I disagree with you.
I guess I do.
I'm not saying it's not challenging.
I think it can be done.
Not everybody wants that life.
There's only so many hours in the day.
Right.
Could you stay up all night with a kid?
Let's say you've got three kids running around.
You know, you're waking up constantly.
You're cooking the stew on the pot.
You've got all this stuff.
And then you have to be up because Fox and Friends is at 6 a.m. on the West Coast.
And you've got to be up.
You've had one hour's sleep.
Now, maybe look, you could say I wake up, I'm camera ready, I'm good, but it would be...
It would be very hard.
Yeah, that level would not be sustainable.
But if you work to your full potential, you can afford to have help.
Now, some people are like, oh, I can have a nanny.
Oh, that's so awful.
I disagree with that.
I believe that if you attain a certain level of success, you have a lot of money to have a nanny.
Right.
I grew up going to daycare, right?
I grew up into both parents working.
I'm very middle America, middle class.
Both my parents worked.
I went to daycare.
When I was old enough, I stayed home alone.
I loved my upbringing.
I do not resent my mom for not staying home with me.
But you, I guess the only point I make, because I agree, that was my upbringing too.
But I'm just saying, that was one experience.
And the other experience is, you know, mommies come, you know, you come home and she's got brownies and whatever, does that thing.
They're just different experiences.
Yeah.
Meaning you can't do them both at the same time.
You can't be baking brownies while you're taking the business call to do the merger and acquisition.
Oh, I think you can.
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They have put the score into the prompter.
Okay.
I think I'm crushing you.
You're destroying me with facts and logic.
It is, and drinks.
It is three to negative one.
Okay.
I've got negative points.
All right.
Now I have a chance to recoup my losses because it is the rapid fire round.
All right.
It's the rapid fire round.
There we go.
Okay, thank you.
You're going to read, and I'm going to answer.
Rapid fire.
Are you worried that eventually a new study will say Zen is poison and possibly makes you gay?
I'm going right down the list of.
Okay, so the first one, then I answer, then you guess how I would answer.
Hold on, hold on.
I want to change my answer.
I want to change my answer.
Correct.
Okay.
Yeah, I'm not worried because I know that that study will come out.
I'm confident of it.
Okay.
So I'm going to go ahead and get it to clear it?
Yes.
Clear it out.
All right.
Are Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey end game?
Are they end game?
Oh, like that.
They're going to end up together, yes.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
Come on.
They wouldn't, even if it were all scripted, you can't break up now.
It's not.
They have too many fake outs.
All right.
Another point for me.
Does a woman's body count matter if she has truly changed her ways?
It's a very difficult question, actually.
Yeah, it doesn't matter ultimately.
Yeah, you do.
I mean, you're completely destroying it.
It matters.
Like, it matters because there are temporal effects owing to sin, even sins that are already forgiven.
So I feel like I have views on this that irritate people for opposite reasons, because I think ultimately, no, you can just repent.
Everyone can repent, and it's good.
But there are temporal effects owing to sin and habituations and things.
it bothers people, you know?
Yeah.
That's, I think that's It should bother women, but not equally.
No, I think there is a double standard.
I think men and women are different.
So it's not a hypocrisy.
But men and women are different.
So like a guy, the reason that men, if they're Lotharios or Casanovas or something, are sometimes even admired for it, though they shouldn't be, and the reason why women are looked on as promiscuous and kind of dirty for it, is just because of the different natures of men and women.
Like a man pursues a woman, a woman is pursued.
And so it's more difficult for a man to sleep with other women.
It's easy for a woman to sleep with a lot of men.
And so the woman has to be on guard to protect her modesty, whereas the man, if he's going to be a Lithario, has to try to chase the women.
That's my view, at least.
Okay.
You disagree.
I'm not necessarily saying that I disagree.
I think it's also unattractive to date somebody who has a very high body count.
I find that unattractive.
I don't find it more acceptable.
But You don't think it's a little more like Yeah.
But as a woman, I find it equally gross if a man has a high body count.
Yeah.
Like if a guy, what if he changed his ways though?
Like the woman changed his ways.
I don't think it should be either way, right?
I think you learn from your experiences.
I'll tell you this.
My husband was previously married.
I prefer that.
I prefer that.
I prefer that he's been married and divorced.
I prefer that.
Than if he had never been married before.
Correct.
Why?
Well, because if I would have married my husband when he was 25, it would not have worked out.
He made all of his mistakes.
Right?
It would not have worked out.
I like that he has learned and grown, and that to me is a plus.
Interesting.
So, not that I love it, but if I'm looking at it logically with emotions removed, I prefer that.
Now, let's say, okay, I totally get that, and I see a fair bit of it.
Now, would he like it if I was previously married?
No, he sure would not.
He would not.
He would not.
No.
Now, do you think he's hypocritical for that stance?
Or no?
You would say no.
That's just how he is.
He's much more of a jealous type than I am.
Yeah, all men are.
That's part of what I'm saying.
All men are.
We don't like the idea of ever even imagining that our wives have ever looked at another man outside of perhaps her father and grandfather.
But it's just how the male mind works.
Now, your argument is you want the guy to have made the mistakes, if he's going to make them, you want him to make the mistakes and learn from them and be ready for you.
But isn't it, it'd be best if the person just didn't make a bunch of mistakes.
I don't think that's the human experience, to be honest with you.
I just don't.
I think men between the ages of 20 and 30 are not ready in most cases for marriage.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't think they are.
Now, there are exceptions.
My parents got married.
My mom was 19.
My dad was 21.
They've been together for 44 years.
It works in some situations, but to your exception and rule analogy that you used earlier, again, I think that men between the ages of 20 and 30 are usually not ready to be husbands and fathers.
Yes, no, broadly I think you're right.
But isn't it a, that's a cultural issue?
So, look, no, I would actually, back to your point, I think it's a biological thing.
Well, then why did it work for your parents?
Exceptions and rules.
You think it was an exception in their personalities or in the time they grew up?
Meaning.
Time they grew up, way they grew up.
That's what I'm saying.
Time grew up, way that they grew up.
That's all I mean by complexity.
It's completely different.
I do feel, though, that, at least operating in 2025, men between the ages of 20 and 30 are not ready for life's responsibility.
No, I think you're right about that.
But so, you know, the reason that our grandparents could all get married at 22 or whatever, and most of the time it worked out, the divorce rates were much lower, and things were generally better, speaks to the fact that there was a culture that was more habituated to virtuous behavior, not vicious behavior.
So where I agree that I want to get the bad stuff out of my system, learn from my mistakes, change my ways, repent, usually in your 20s is kind of when it happens now.
Ideally, you and your husband would have met, you would have come up in a culture that wasn't as confused as 2025.
And you would have not been inclined toward all those mistakes that our culture inclines us toward.
And you would have gotten married at 22.
No.
No, I just.
You say no.
Why not?
That sounds great.
I would have never wanted to get married at age 22.
22-year-old me and 32-year-old me are completely different human beings.
But I'm saying, yes, they are.
But I'm saying, what if you grew up in, you know, 1943?
Well, then people would have been a World War II.
Do you think that some people, though, in that, not just generation, but generations, yes, I would agree with you that marriage is long-lasting, more virtuous behavior.
However, how many of those marriages, should there have been a divorce and they were just too proud not to get a divorce?
I'm totally opposed to divorce.
I'm totally opposed in all circumstances.
But I see your point.
Yeah.
We're not grandparents.
We all know certain grandparents that have been together for 60 years.
They probably shouldn't have made it past 10.
Yeah, yeah, right.
And it wouldn't have in today's culture.
But when you say 22-year-old Tommy and 30-year-old Tommy, you're totally different creatures, of course.
But, and therefore 22-year-old Tommy shouldn't have married 23-year-old or whatever, your husband.
But why?
What was the difference?
Could there have been a world in which 22-year-old Tommy could have had all the success and all the great stuff, but also been excited and ready to get married?
No.
No.
Why not?
I started, first of all, I started when I was 21.
So I started very young.
But I was not ready at that time to settle down.
And I was not ready until I was 28 when I met my husband.
I was not ready to settle down.
It would not have worked because I didn't want that.
You were working too much?
No, I did not want that.
I did not want to be locked down.
I did not want to be settled down.
That's what I'm saying, though.
Why not?
That just wasn't what I wanted.
It just wasn't.
I agree, me too.
I mean, one of my few regrets, I was actually talking to, I've talked to a lot of people who are actually fairly prominent in public life, and I won't say their names and embarrass them.
But people have told me, you know, one of my big regrets, I hear this a lot, I wish I'd gotten married younger.
And I think that to myself.
And I think, look, in the scope of Providence, it all works out as God wants.
So I'm not, I don't stay up at night over this.
But it is kind of a regret of mine, too.
If I was ready to get married at 28, why wasn't I ready to get married at 22, 23?
Because I wanted to go stay out later at more bars, carouse.
Like, okay, I mean, it's kind of fun, but I don't, was that good for me?
I don't know.
It was good for me.
I'm going to tell you, here's a reality show reference for you.
I watch a lot of reality TV.
I love it.
I don't know if you've watched the secret lives of Mormon wives or not, but these young ladies get married at age 22 to their husbands that are 22, and they've got three kids by, you know, 24.
23.
And it doesn't work out because they cheat on each other.
They want something else.
They want an experience elsewhere.
But that's reality TV.
They need that drama.
You're not going to hear the stories of the people who have a good marriage.
That wouldn't make reality TV.
I don't think that exception and rule again.
There's always exceptions to the rule.
I don't think many people who get married very young and have kids very young, I think that they probably experience some level of angst.
Not everybody, but I think many do.
And whether they're honest about it, I don't know.
Whether they won't admit it to themselves until they're 55, perhaps.
Yeah, the grass is always greener.
I know people who got married in 1920, spit out six kids, couldn't be happier.
I've seen it happen.
And I think that's how society worked for a long time.
But to your point, you know, I was an atheist for 10 years.
I was a libertarian.
I admit.
I admit, I don't care.
sometimes.
I was a libertarian for a little bit.
And never a liberal, but a libertarian.
And it is helpful to me now that I was single for some years, because that I was an atheist, that I was a libertarian.
It's helpful.
It's also harmful, because you have the scars of bad habits.
But it's helpful in the sense that there ain't no greener grass on the other side.
I've seen the other side of the fence.
I know how that grass is.
It's not great.
I understand that point.
But can't you, I guess the ultimate question we're talking about here is, does one have to make mistakes?
Or can we learn from others' mistakes?
You know, we're not fallible humans when we make mistakes.
And I think we have to.
I think we have to make mistakes.
What about Jim Mattis, the general, former Defense Secretary under Trump won?
He said, I read a lot of books so that other people make mistakes for me.
So I don't need to make those mistakes that they made.
That's great in battle, but in life, good luck.
You're going to make a mistake.
We've all made them.
We're stronger for them.
I believe that to my very core.
But would you avoid, like tomorrow, not to belabor the point, but if you said there's some terrible mistake you could make tomorrow.
Yeah.
But I'm warning you about it now, so you don't have to make it.
Would you still choose to make the mistake so you're better for it and stronger for it?
Or would you try to avoid it?
That wouldn't be a natural situation, though.
Of course it is.
That's what I'm saying.
I could avoid it.
I don't think you.
But that's what moral education is.
I don't think you make mistakes knowing that you're about to make a mistake in most cases.
I think it's the hindsight that provides that moral education.
Yeah, yeah.
No, but that's what I'm saying.
If growing up, you know, you said, hey, here's a ridge.
If you could tell me, hey, you could go back to when you were with so-and-so, and you could have completely avoided that stupid explanation.
You could have eliminated these three guys and gone straight to your husband, would you have no.
No!
No!
You would have led me on to say you were going to say yes.
No, because I learned and I grew from all of them.
It's everything that was needed to me to get to the point that I was, that I was ready to get married, and that I know that now I'm so.
Okay.
Hey, okay.
That is as blunt an answer.
There were some girls I might have taken off, you know, I might have gotten off the list.
But, okay, that's an honest answer.
I don't even remember.
We were talking.
That's rapid fire for you.
Okay, I'm going to clear my answer.
It's already clear.
Okay.
Oh, come on.
It's like every time.
Do men who never go to the gym have any grounds to advocate that women should stay in shape?
Men who never go to the gym.
Who are those men?
Yeah.
I'd say some of us actually do have grounds because we're rational creatures and we don't have to go lift weights to it.
Anyway, that's fine.
We'll talk about this later.
Would you mind clearing?
Is there a good argument for bringing back public executions?
Hold on.
You laughed, so I want to say you're going to say no, but was that a fake out?
And you could be.
Yo, you said, come on, she laughed, though.
It was like a total head fake.
I'm very good at those games.
Yeah, this is awful.
This is terrible.
Would you sooner attend, would you, wow, that's a good question.
Would you sooner attend a women's march or a march for life?
So hold on.
The phrasing is, would you sooner attend a women's march than a march for life?
Wow.
That's a real Sophie's choice here.
First, I have to clear up my answer.
Clear it.
Clear the answer.
Read it again.
Would you sooner attend a women's march than a march for life?
Okay.
We're talking about feminism.
We're talking.
People never know which way I'm going to go on these.
Oh man, I don't know where I can call.
Uh...
*Slow*
Ah, come on.
Why?
Because.
First of all.
Because they're on your team.
The pro-life people are on your team.
The women's march are not.
Pro-life people are going to smell and look better.
If I'm going to put myself into a crowd, which I hate anyway, I'm going to be honest to you, I'm not showing up to any march.
Yeah.
I don't even like to work out with other people everywhere.
The last thing I'm going to do is put myself in a march.
I don't even like to go to concerts and sit in general public.
I don't like crowds.
I don't like people.
You wouldn't catch me there.
I love law enforcement.
I wouldn't be at a law enforcement march either.
So, I will say this though.
People often get my position on this very, very.
Because you're pro-choice.
I am pro-choice, but I'm not personally pro-choice.
I like the pro-life message.
If the pro-life message is we want to preserve life and we want to encourage people to preserve life, I'm with you.
But as a matter of law, if you want to abort your kid, you can.
As a matter of law, not as a matter of personal extra.
To an extent.
Again, I'm not a late-term abortion.
You're never going to catch me advocating for that, even for a limited government perspective.
I'm with you on the pro-life cost.
Here's the deal.
It's not saying that it's not important, that it's not a life, it's not that.
It's me saying, does the government, and actually we're in the anniversary of the repeal of Roe v.
Wade, right?
Yeah, right.
And there's more abortions now than before they repealed the damn law.
That's because of the abortion pill.
That would happen anyway.
That's like 75% of the abortion pill now, which is a technological challenge.
But I look, I grant there have been at the state level laws since, because the repeal just said go to the states, there are now certain states that say, yeah, we're going to have abortion up until the moment abortion.
And there are some, like Tennessee, that say pretty much no.
Basically, and I agree with that state's right.
So hold on, you're more pro-life than I thought you were.
I'm definitely personally pro-life.
So then why not if you're I don't believe that the government solves the problem because I don't know.
Well, the government passes laws.
We have laws against murder.
We have laws against jaywalking.
We have laws against immigration.
I understand that.
Well, loosely.
They're not in the forest very often.
Loosely.
I will say this.
You criminalize when you murder because you do it with the intent.
When I believe that women are in that position, that they are getting an abortion, I believe more often than not.
They don't know what they're doing.
It's because they're scared, they don't know what to do, they're poor.
I don't believe that they do it because they are going to murder.
I don't believe there's a crowd for that.
Some do.
There's a crowd for that, and it's a disgusting crowd.
But I don't believe that it solves the problem.
Now, I believe that the faith, family, because I don't believe you're going to not get an abortion because the government says, okay, we have an abortion.
abortion rates spiked after Roe v.
Wade.
It spiked.
Now, there were always some illegal abortions, but not many compared to the legal ones.
So I'm just saying, look, whatever your view on abortion is, it's one thing.
I'm just saying, if you're willing to use the government to enforce laws about taxes, driving, homicide, manslaughter and murder, whatever, incest, simple assault, drinking underage, we have laws about everything.
Why not that?
Why is this the one thing we can't have a law about?
I think intent matters.
And again, late term, we're not talking about late term.
We have plenty of time.
I think intent matters.
Like I said, women that are in that position, I don't believe that they're doing it when you don't pay your taxes.
You can't slaughter you don't have an intent to kill someone.
You just do it accidentally or in passion or something.
Yeah.
Well, usually you made a pretty egregious mistake.
Yes, yeah.
Right.
I understand your perspective.
I just don't think that the government solves the problem.
If you want women to choose life, if you want women to either choose life and choose to adopt or choose to be a mother, I believe that you don't do that by government mandate.
I believe you do that by faith, fellowship, family, friendship.
I think that's the area that you provide love and compassion for.
In federal legislation.
No.
You would disagree with that.
I disagree with you.
I don't think it solves the problem.
Now, but you would still go to the March for Life over the Women's March, but no marches generally.
I wouldn't go to any march, but I have no problem with a pro-life march.
It's not like I look at it, oh, no.
No, no, no.
Those are my people.
I love that they're passionate about it.
And I love that they want to preach pro-life values.
I think that's great.
Now, I don't believe in a federal abortion ban, but I believe in a pro-life message.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
And I believe that we have been led to believe that you can't believe both things.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think that the majority of Americans believe both things.
I think that's kind of in the middle.
That's true.
All right.
Well, maybe I can persuade you.
After our final round.
Is Jojo Siwa just the first of many influencers who will soon discover that they were pressured into being gay?
But you saw that I moved so fast.
Okay, it's fair.
So hold on.
Now you got to put your answer.
I believe in you.
You believe, and I have to guess what you believe.
I shouldn't move so fast, because Tommy obviously got it right.
Correct.
Okay.
All right.
Last one.
It was an easy one.
Okay.
We're going to clear.
Last one.
If it's culturally acceptable for black women to dye their hair blonde, should it also...
If it's culturally acceptable for black women to dye their hair blonde, should it also be culturally acceptable for white people to wear blackface?
Good lord.
It's kind of a non-sequitur, wouldn't you say?
Okay, hold on.
I got to put my answer.
You got to put your answer.
We'll do the others.
Okay.
So I'm going to get you to lock yours in first, and then I got to guess.
All right, you got to lock yours in, too.
Okay.
Okay.
Now I got to.
Now I move yours first.
Except, Tom, so I have an answer in my head that I think you would answer.
But you've been faking me out this whole game and have been crushing me.
*clap*
Now do you want me to answer?
You got to move it to mine.
I hope I'm right on that.
I hope for your sake.
I'm completely fine with blackface.
In some cases.
I say completely in some.
Here's my argument.
I remember once, there was some blackface controversy came up.
There's many of them.
There were many, not even blackface, blackface, like Jimmy Fallon, like dressed up as Chris Rock or something.
And I was in a cab, I was in an Uber, nice Uber, with a black driver.
And it came on the radio.
And I said, oh, what do you think about that?
And he said, oh, man, I don't care.
It's all in good fun.
I don't, whatever.
I don't care.
And that's kind of my view.
If you're doing it to be really cruel to any racial group, I think that's quite wrong to be cruel and rude.
But if you're just sort of having fun, it's fine.
I think the Waynes brothers can put on white face.
I think we can, I can do a little minstrel show.
Billy Kersand was the great genius of minstrelsy.
He was a black guy.
Yeah.
That one's going to get me in a lot of trouble.
Yeah, whatever.
It's fine.
I think that you're correct, that I don't think many care as much as the loud voices that decry it.
However, I just would never do it.
I'm not going to walk into that territory.
It just does not seem worth it to me to be canceled for that.
That's like, I don't have the desire of that badly.
This is Sicilian.
We're basically African ourselves.
So if I were Lily White, I might have a different answer.
Now, folks, listen here.
Tommy's new show, Tommy Lauren is Fearless, covers everything from trending political topics to today's pop culture news to sports and everything in between.
No topics are off limits.
Take a look.
Take a look.
Well, folks, we probably could have predicted this, but I want to show you what happens when a religious group, of course, a Christian group, tries to peacefully assemble, hold an event, hold a rally in a deep blue liberal hellhole.
Cue the loving and tolerant left.
Yes.
Doing what they naturally do with their loving and unifying message surrounding a poor woman with her infant, spewing hate.
All because Christians wanted to assemble and they had the audacity to do it in some place like Seattle.
I know, God forbid, the horror.
Now, you can go check out more of Tommy's content.
You probably already follow her.
Just statistically speaking, you probably already follow her on Instagram at Tommy Lauren and YouTube at Tommy Lauren is Fearless.
And I will see you, first of all, thank you, Tommy.
