All Episodes
Previous Next
July 15, 2022 - Firebrand - Matt Gaetz
36:43
Episode 60 LIVE: No Vax, No Service (feat. MSgt. Nick Kupper) – Firebrand with Matt Gaetz
| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
Thank you.
Matt Gaetz was one of the very few members in the entire Congress who bothered to stand up against permanent Washington on behalf of his constituents.
Matt Gaetz right now, he's a problem for the Democratic Party.
He could cause a lot of hiccups in passing the laws.
So we're going to keep running those stories to keep hurting him.
If you stand for the flag and kneel in prayer, if you want to build America up and not burn her to the ground, then welcome, my fellow patriots!
You are in the right place!
This is the movement for you!
You ever watch this guy on television?
Like a machine.
Matt Gaetz.
I'm a canceled man in some corners of the internet.
Many days I'm a marked man in Congress, a wanted man by the deep state.
They aren't really coming for me.
They're coming for you.
I'm just in the way.
Welcome back to Firebrand.
We are live broadcasting out of our office in the Capitol Complex in Washington DC and I have a terrific interview with an American hero, a patriot.
Air Force Master Sergeant Nick Cupper came and sat down and chatted with us moments ago about the way This vaccine mandate in the military is affecting military families, and we've even got updates regarding important court rulings giving some relief, particularly to those service members in the Air Force who did not have a fair evaluation of their request for religious exemptions to the vaccine.
But first, just moments ago, House Democrats passed their abortion on demand legislation.
And this goes far further than Roe versus Wade.
It even would allow abortion up to the day of birth.
And gosh, if you gave the Virginia governor his own interpretation of the bill, maybe even abortion after the day of birth, which we actually call murder in this country, or at least we should if we cared about humanity as much as we ought to.
We had a very spirited debate in the House Judiciary Committee where Democrats were just like trying to rush through anything they could to facilitate snap abortions, elective abortions, abortions that would be a crime against humanity.
I'd had enough of it and shot back pretty hard.
Take a listen.
Ms. Bass, you didn't use the words that were confusing, so I'm not going to yield to you.
It is my bill.
But you didn't use the words and description of it.
And guess why?
It was Ms. Ross who used those words.
And if I want to ask questions of Ms. Ross, she could choose whether or not to yield to give the answers.
But you covering for her, she doesn't know the words she uses and cannot in the Judiciary Committee sit and answer the questions on something as important as life or death when I control the time is outrageous.
Are you done?
I'm done when my term's done.
You can yield for those questions.
But it's crazy that in this committee, when I'm trying to get honest answers to questions about the effect of the bill, whether or not it paves the way to abortions, that you all want to sit up there and squawk at me rather than allow me to ask questions.
When you have the time, you can control the time.
How about that?
But these are fair questions.
She used the phrase unborn child.
I would like to know what that means to her because what it means to us is that it is a life.
You know what?
I want the answer on the record, Ms. Bass.
I want the answer for the American people because to all of us, my party that was impugned, we actually think that unborn life is a child and that there is a liberty interest there that is worthy of our defense and our protection and the values that undergird the American Constitution.
I don't think that's too unreasonable.
And by the way, if you use a phrase in this committee, you shouldn't have to have a senior member answer the questions for you.
You should be able to answer those questions yourself.
And if not, I think it speaks to the credibility of the debate that is offered.
So I'll yield, Ms. Bass.
I got 50 seconds.
Thank you.
I would like for us to vote on the amendment.
I think the bill is clear.
The rest of this discussion is theater.
I would like to vote on the amendment.
Can we vote on the amendment, Mr. Chair?
I'll tell you what, Ms. Bass, reclaiming my time.
We'll vote when we're damn well ready and when we're done answering our questions.
Oh, you chair the committee now?
No, we have rights in the minority to utilize time under the five-minute rule to be able to offer our perspective on matters.
And we're sorry if you all are in such a rush to kill unborn life that you're unwilling to answer our questions.
But you know what?
The good news is, with the Supreme Court we currently have, This is now a pro-life country, and we've got all the time in the world for that.
We are back live.
And what's crazy, just moments ago, alongside their legislation to allow abortions on demand, Democrats actually lowered tariffs on baby formula to get more baby formula into the country.
I voted for that bill.
I'm actually for our children and our babies being able to be appropriately nourished.
But only Nancy Pelosi and her radical band of House Democrats would not appreciate the irony of, within moments of one another, passing a bill making it easier to feed babies, and then passing a bill making it easier to kill babies.
Fortunately, we have a pro-life Supreme Court, a pro-Constitution Supreme Court, thanks to the boldness of President Trump.
And America is now a pro-life nation.
I also want to chat a little bit today about the military vaccine mandate.
Now, one of the ways we try to keep folks informed about what's going on in the country is actually to bring people forward who are experiencing the consequences of the decisions that we make in Washington, D.C., and particularly some of the very damaging decisions made by the Biden administration.
So several months ago, we had a number of active duty service members join us for a discussion about vaccine mandates in the military.
They talked about the coercion, the threats, the regulations that were being violated.
One of the service members who joined us then was Air Force Master Sergeant Nick Cupper.
Take a listen to that exchange.
Master Sergeant, one of the things that concerned me in an investigation that my office ran into the United States Navy is that when people submitted requests for religious accommodations, they were often met in response by a form letter, which to me indicated that an individual review of people's claim,
how this decision was grounded in faith or scripture, wasn't really made Do you have any observations about the process of requesting a religious accommodation and how the Air Force looks at those?
Yes, Congressman, thank you.
I've seen hundreds of denied religious accommodation requests to include denied appeal requests.
I've seen a handful of the approved ones, and all of them start with the premise that the government has such a strong interest in vaccinating us that While they determine all of our religious beliefs are to be sincerely held, they determine that even as strongly as our beliefs are, they're not as strong as the government's desire and need to vaccinate all of us.
Even in situations such as my own where I currently have No restrictions on me as an unvaccinated member at my location.
I don't have to wear a mask.
I don't have to weekly test.
I don't have to do any social distancing.
My life at my job is the exact same as any vaccinated members, and I'm not unique in that scenario right now.
But the only approvals they've been doing that I've been able to see and that court documents have shown are for people who are already on terminal leave, already in their final months, where they won't return to a base.
In fact, the approval specifically says that they are only approving it because they will not return to a base.
If the member's not returning to their duty station ever, that's not an accommodation.
They're accommodating nothing.
That really was one of my favorite episodes we've done.
You can go back, listen to it, and get perspectives from other service members who are going through these challenges.
Now, after that appearance on Firebrand, Tucker Carlson, who I'm pretty sure is a Firebrand viewer and listener, he reached out to Nick and had Nick on his show so that more of the American people could see what is happening.
Take a listen to Nick's performance on Tucker.
So, my theory is we ignore the big things in favor of obsessing over the little ones, so destroying the US military would qualify as a big thing.
Do you not have a member of Congress?
I mean, there are hundreds of Republicans holding federal office.
None has come forward to stop this?
So there definitely have been some.
I was on Matt Gaetz's podcast, and he's definitely been fighting for us.
Thomas Massey's been fighting for us, Chip Roy.
But there are only a few.
You know, we need everybody.
This is not a problem for tomorrow to be solved or the next day.
This is a problem right now.
You're talking about over 10% of your military is looking to be canned right now.
I mean, if I were China or I were Russia, I'd be chomping at the bit right now.
As you can see in that interview, Nick was telling the truth.
He was sharing open source information about the effect of the military vaccine mandate on our fighting force.
And I was really proud of him.
I think we need more folks who are willing to step forward and help enlighten us and illuminate what's happening afterwards.
Nick got a reprimand from the Department of Defense saying that he was aiding the enemy just for that interview on Tucker.
So I wanted to get a more complete picture.
I wanted to understand from Nick what's happening with others in the fighting force who are being really, I think, discriminated against who are not having their religious exemptions viewed fairly.
And also really to get back to that core of what motivates people to step forward for military service.
Something that we absolutely need to keep America prosperous and free.
Nick stopped by just moments ago and we had a conversation.
Take a listen.
We're back and happy to join with Nick Cupper on your return to Firebrand.
You were with us before and Nick, you know, we talked about some of the coercion and some of the concerns of a lot of our active duty military as a consequence of this VAX mandate.
Can you share with folks what your current standing is with the military?
We've just had this injunction issued that I think really works against the forces pushing for this mandate.
Just share with folks kind of your circumstance.
First, thanks for having me back.
I really appreciate it.
Yeah, so for me personally, right now, I was issued a letter of reprimand, first off, for being on Tucker Carlson's show the other day.
And we're dealing with that right now.
And I was issued a separation package, which in the Air Force is their notification.
They want to separate you.
And for a member like me, who's been here for 19 years, it starts a process where I would go to a board where they can determine to retain me or not.
If they choose not to, I'd be gone in about a week after that.
So you spoke out about the circumstances that you were observing and experiencing regarding this mandate, and you did so with several other colleagues who were active duty.
Then you went on Tucker Carlson's program and just shared your reaction to what was publicly available information.
And now two things have happened, a separation package and a reprimand.
So let's start with the reprimand.
What is the assertion that you have done something objectionable toward the military?
Right.
So I can't get into the specifics of it because they've marked it as such that I won't.
But the long and short is they effectively say that I have hurt the government and hurt our country by going on Tucker, which is not accurate at all.
Everything I spoke of was publicly available information.
I didn't give my own personal opinion.
I may have hurt some feelings, but everything I said was 100% a public available true number.
And the separation package that's sort of the other feature of this.
Now we're aware of really breaking news on the legal front where a court has issued an injunction against some of the activities that the Air Force is engaged in regarding our airmen.
Where does your separation package stand?
So, yeah, so because of this injunction in the case Doster v.
Kendall, which is specific to Air Force, unfortunately, I wish it was for everyone, and it's only specific to members who have sought a religious accommodation.
We have a 14-day temporary injunction right now.
The defense, the Air Force will have the chance to argue it.
The plaintiffs have a chance to come back, and at the end of the 14 days, unless the judge is swayed, which I doubt he will be, we're going to have a permanent injunction until the end of that trial.
So because of that, my separation package now has to go away.
Everyone who was being punished in the military, in the Air Force specifically, who had a religious accommodation at some point, now has a little breathing room.
It's very little, but it's there.
Actually, I flew in on Thursday, and I took a quick nap at my friend's house.
During the nap is when the injunction came down.
I said, I would have come here and napped a long time ago if I would have known this would happen.
Well, and I hope that this is an opportunity DOD-wide to really analyze the effect of these mandates on our service members, not just in the Air Force, but really throughout our military, and also to maybe reflect.
You know, so often in government, we don't exercise the humility to say, maybe a decision we made was rash.
Maybe it wasn't fully informed by the evidence or the science.
I call on Secretary Austin on the DOD to really think hard about what this injunction means, what the analysis is that undergirds this injunction, and maybe this will be the opportunity for us to get away from pitting our military against the heroes and patriots who are offering to serve in that military.
And to that end, Nick, I just sort of want to ask you, what drove you to make this decision that I didn't make, that so many Americans don't make, To put on that uniform and to be willing to stand up for your country and defend her.
So I was young, you know, straight out of high school.
Actually, I hadn't even graduated yet, of course, when I decided.
And I wasn't 100% sure I wanted to do, but the military was an attractive option and has been for such a long time for so many members.
And one, it was a way to take care of myself, but another, it was a way to give back to my country.
You know, my dad had served in the Army.
He had been to Vietnam.
My uncle earned a Bronze Star in Vietnam.
You know, I kind of wanted to, you know, honor that.
So family was a big part of it for you.
Family was definitely a big part of it.
And, you know, bigger than just why I initially joined, I was a young man, you know, maybe didn't think through everything.
The reason I've re-enlisted multiple times and I'm almost at 20 years now is because I care about doing the hard things so I can take care of others.
You know, not everyone can do this.
This is not for everybody.
I am happy to serve so that someone else doesn't have to.
You know, I'm willing to put my life, my family's stability at risk because I honestly just care and I think more people need to just care.
And I think that the depth of that care is multi-generational for a lot of our service members.
We've had experts from DOD come and testify to us that while we face these intense challenges in recruiting, our best recruiters are moms and dads and aunts and uncles and grandmothers and grandfathers who have served, who want to build that family tradition of patriotism and service to country.
Are you concerned that some of these vaccine mandates might cause some people in the country to reflect differently with their children and grandchildren and nieces and nephews about just how the military experience goes in one's life?
I do.
I think that the vaccine mandates, the way it's being handled, I would say, and a lot of the other newer policies that have come along later in my career now, have definitely changed how people want to...
What people want to advise their children to do.
And like I said, when I was on your show last time, you know, at this point for me, I don't want my children serving, not in the current military that's here.
And people may not like that, but, you know, that's a personal decision for me and my family, and it's factual.
You know, what I have seen, I don't want for my children.
You know, I want to defend this country.
I would love my children to defend this country, but not at the stake of all of their rights being, you know, thrown away on a whim.
You know, Nick, my office did an analysis, and we're going to put it out with the show, about the readiness costs of these vaccine mandates.
And we calculated easily that the United States is essentially surrendering about $4 billion worth of training investment With just the separations that we're able to see above the surface.
And you gave us a lot of information about separations that are occurring that might not be officially designated as a vaccine separation, but maybe it's somebody who just doesn't want to go through the fight.
Maybe they can go work somewhere else and, you know, they weren't serving in the Air Force or the Army or the Navy.
You know, to get rich, they were doing it out of love of country, but there might be other economic opportunities that are better.
And so at a minimum, it's a $4 billion loss in our training investment.
But what I think you're telling me right now is that there's a readiness impact That we're not going to feel today, that we're going to feel 10, 20 years down the road potentially if the moms and dads who serve, who are part of that robust recruiting for the next generation aren't doing that.
If patriots and heroes like you aren't pushing it on the next generation, who do we expect to do it, right?
And if that's happening, it creates a really long gestation period for that impact on readiness.
Oh, absolutely.
It's a lagging indicator, right?
Right.
Because let's say I'm gone today, but they've recruited somebody to replace me.
Someone who comes in today doesn't have 19 years of experience.
You know, they don't have what I have.
They can't directly replace me.
And it takes years and years and years to build that person up.
And on top of the fact that that's just trying to replace one of us, the fact that we're not getting the members in to replace us, and the numbers that they're putting out there.
I mean, like I mentioned on Tucker, you know, at the DoD's own website right now, they're listing over 290,000 members that are only partially vaccinated.
That doesn't include all of us who are unvaccinated.
And every deadline has passed.
So you're kind of seeing it on both ends from a potential readiness issue where you have a potential mass exodus of the DOD's own making.
And then you have very little, you know, anyone coming in, any accessions, right?
I mean, what did the Army put out the other day of their own numbers?
They said they were at 40% of their goal with three months left in this fiscal year.
So how are you going to get 60% in three months when you could only get 40 in nine?
I used to recruit for years, and this is not the recruiting environment that I worked in.
I didn't know you did recruiting work as part of your service.
I have to ask, when you were doing that, what were the things that you would put before potential recruits that you really felt motivated them?
You know the funny thing is?
You didn't have to do much to motivate them.
It was like if you go to a car lot to buy a car, right?
You don't go there unless you're ready to buy because you don't want to be sold to.
Almost everyone who comes into a recruiting office is ready to be sold.
They're just not coming in anymore because they're not ready.
You know, what I would do when I would talk to them is I would be honest.
And that's what worked really well for me.
I would say, you're in here for a reason.
There's something you think you can get out of here.
Tell me what it is.
And they would tell me what they think and I would just affirm that yes, you can get that from the military and we'd sign.
Do you think they're still good that people can get out of the military?
100%.
You know, honestly, and I've said this for years to a lot of my troops and stuff, the way the military and the Air Force specifically, because that's mine, is designed, it's designed really, really well.
And there's a lot of things in there to take care of people.
The problem is when, from time to time, you're going to get a bad leader.
Same list of inside, you might have a bad boss.
Any organization.
Any organization.
Any shop, any store, even Fortune 500 companies.
And they may not even mean to be bad.
They just may not be good at it, right?
They are the ones that give people a bad taste in their mouth, and that's a lot of the reason why people get out.
They don't get out because the policies in general or the rules in general, they're well-written.
As a small example, when we adopted our daughter from Armenia, After the adoption was over, it was very expensive.
You know, 13 and a half months it took us to get her.
It cost $35,000.
The Air Force has a policy where you can apply and get a small reimbursement, but it's $2,000.
They don't have to pay me.
They didn't ask me to adopt my daughter, but they have this fantastic policy.
The Air Force has moved us twice to take care of her medical and educational needs to bases that they didn't have to move me to.
You know, I had signed on the line.
I have to work where I'm told to work, but it's designed really well.
It's when you don't implement it correctly or when you pervert a rule and you change things.
And I think we've seen a lot of that.
Well, and a lot of the policies that you were just really, I think, celebrating are about making the service member feel as though they're part of something bigger in their service with the military.
And to provide those family accommodations and to provide that support for the force multiplier that is a military family is, And it seems like, to me, this vaccine mandate cuts against a lot of that unity and culture and cohesion that draw people into the military because they want to be a part of something bigger.
And just to be fair, I wouldn't argue so much against the mandate itself, but the implementation of it is where my concern is.
Because there are all these already on the books rules for exemptions and things like that, right?
And religious exemptions have been a thing forever.
I mean, we have the right to religious freedom.
It's enshrined in our constitution.
And then in the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, it's further emboldened.
But what has happened here is you have an order that lower, from my perspective, lower level commanders are implementing incorrectly.
Right?
And they're at the point where they're not approving religious accommodations.
Well, in my own investigation of my own constituents, I would see these detailed expressions of faith, citing chapter and verse to Scripture, aligning that Scripture with personal faith experiences and moments of salvation.
And then I would see form letters sent back from the military to my constituents.
Just like mine.
And that's not what the law requires.
The law requires...
Requires an individual assessment of each claim for a religious exemption or a medical exemption.
And then to be able to hold up the letters back to a lamp and see that the letters line right up, it shows that people weren't being given the opportunity to have their exemption claim assessed so much as they were just being processed through a system.
And I guess that's different.
I critique the mandate.
You are, in essence, critiquing the system Yes.
The adherence to the regulations that our service members have come to rely on.
Correct.
And, you know, they have a policy in place across the DOD to only grant religious accommodations to members who are already on their final leave or in a skill bridge program, which is like an internship.
Either way, I read one just the other day.
It says it's conditionally approved as long as you never return to a DOD facility.
That's not an accommodation.
You look at the dictionary definition, that's not accommodating.
And you can't have a policy like that because if it's a set policy, then it's not individualistic, is it?
We've been talking a lot about this intersection of service, patriotism, and faith.
I've always viewed that as a real strength of our military.
A strong chaplaincy makes for a good wing, a good unit.
It seems almost now that the institutions of the military are more eager to deny the intersection of faith and service.
How does your faith inform your desire to serve your country in the military?
I'm a Christian personally, right?
And from the Bible, it says, you know, serve God first.
But it also says, you know, follow the laws of the land, right?
And it talks about serving your leaders and, you know, doing right by them the same as you would for God.
Now, obviously, God is still the highest.
But in the end, I want to serve my country.
You know, I want to do right by it.
And I'm getting to the point where I'm being limited in whether I'm allowed to or not.
And for my personal religious accommodation request, I
look at it You know, it's hard, and not just for Christians, for all members of faith, all types of faiths have applied for these.
And they've all been, I will say at least, they've been equally treated badly because they've all been treated to the point where, well, if you're not this one category who's already on the way out and not going to come back, we're not approving you.
The military imposes a very unique series of challenges on family life.
Moving around a lot, TDY, training, sometimes a family member not even knowing where you are.
But people sign up for that.
And there's a certain strength and resilience that I see in military families that go through these remarkable, I think, just ups and downs in life.
It's never been anything like this, though.
I feel that there's something different about the way that the implementation of these mandates have affected military families.
Can you talk about what life's been like for you as you've gone from your service to now being really an advocate for, I think, a great number of service members who have the concerns that you express?
It is definitely different now.
I don't know how we got to this point, honestly, like exactly.
I mean, I can kind of see a little science here and there.
But the amount of stress that is on the military members and their families for sure is immense.
I mean, just extremely immense.
And like I said, you take my one story and you multiply it by over 300,000 because that's how many more of us there are.
You know, that is an unfathomable number, really.
And you think about their wives, husbands, you know, children.
And I've talked to members who are, you know, being told, well, they have the early signs of PTSD from this specific situation.
Wow.
Because of the level of stress that they've gone over.
I've heard anecdotal evidence.
I can't prove it.
I'm not in that realm.
But I've heard anecdotal evidence of a few members who have actually committed suicide over this.
And, you know, honestly, that's something I brought up to my leadership early on.
As I said, I'm concerned that there will be some members because of how much pressure is on it.
Because I could feel it.
I've been around long enough.
I feel like I can take it.
You know, I shouldn't have to, but I can.
There are younger members of our military or people who may be going through other things in their life.
They can't.
And we're talking about readiness.
We're talking about, oh, you have to take this vaccine to save your life and save it.
But then people are killing themselves over the amount of pressure they're being put under because their livelihoods are put at stake.
You know, if I do get kicked out, I'll land on my feet.
You know, I've been around long enough.
But there's a huge number that will not be alright.
And you're talking about creating a situation where they're going to be more dependent on the government.
Maybe that's something people want.
Maybe they want to create a situation where more and more members of America are dependent upon the government for everything.
I certainly don't want that.
And while we are grateful that we have resilient people who are willing to Follow the rules.
Learn the rules.
Express a desire for everyone to follow the rules.
I worry that even if you're okay, and even if others that might get separated are okay, that America won't be okay.
I look at these recruiting numbers, and right now, only 23% of the young folks in middle school and high school that are part of that talent pipeline are even physically eligible.
Yeah.
We got the Xbox generation, and if our country doesn't have folks like you and the tens of thousands that are facing separation, we're not going to be a stronger country.
We're going to be a weaker country.
We're going to be more susceptible to attack.
And there are entities in the world that are evil.
And we have to be a strong country.
And we need patriots to step forward.
And I worry if we get to a circumstance where we drive out a lot of folks who were inspired by faith and inspired by a desire to be part of a family's contribution to a great nation, then we're going to be left in a very vulnerable situation.
I mean, in your time in the military, I'm sure you've seen circumstances where missions become very critical to the advance of our country and our freedom.
Absolutely.
We've had this debate in Congress now about The National Defense Authorization Act.
And there's some that would say, you know, gosh, we shouldn't authorize our military until they fix all these issues and comply with their laws.
And gosh, you know, I worry that if we didn't have a military, we would not have the American experience.
You know, that is part of the world experience.
Exactly.
Exactly.
I mean, if you look at just how many of our servicemen and women are over in Europe, for instance.
Yeah.
And I mean, we provide, what, 75% of NATO's funding?
Ann Manning, honestly, that actually goes out and does anything.
And good or bad, you know, we may not want to be the world's police, but everyone relies on us.
If we are the one good superpower, right?
If we keep things in check, if we don't have the military we have, that's not going to happen.
And once it goes away, it's gone.
You don't get it back.
If something, you know, God forbid, another country somehow became most powerful and took us over at some point, you know, distant future, hopefully never, there's no coming back from it.
I mean, you have multiple generations of your family that have committed to that as the cause of their life.
And it's just not something we should ever surrender, and it's not something we should allow ourselves to be vulnerable to.
We should not be a vulnerable country, and I worry that these large numbers of separations will be noticed by our adversaries.
If anyone thinks that they're not watching and paying attention, they're fooling themselves.
Well, I'm certainly grateful that there has been judicial relief.
I have filed amendments, debated for them, worked on coalitions, and the Democrats would not approve one amendment for even a vote of the full House of Representatives on the vaccine mandate.
They approved 650 amendments and not one on this issue, which is...
Which is really, I think, disgraceful.
But, you know, we did get judicial relief.
It does apply to the Air Force.
I do hope and pray and I implore the Department of Defense, use this as an opportunity to change your way of thinking, to change the way you treat our service members who just want the opportunity to make a patriotic contribution and who love our military.
I mean, the movement...
to have the DOD comply with their own regs is not a movement led by people who think America is a bad place or a racist place or an awful place.
These are folks who love our country.
We love it.
And there are a great many of them.
And I'm glad that there was a brave judge willing to step forward and issue this injunction.
We hope that this spurs more momentum, frankly, than we've seen yet.
▲
Export Selection