Salim Ismail, founder of OpenEXO and former Singularity University innovator, argues exponential tech—like AI, vertical farming, and DeFi—slashes costs (e.g., $250/month for housing/healthcare via XPRIZE’s abundance prize) while disrupting legacy systems, from fiat currency to bureaucratic governance. He contrasts radical abundance (35 Manhattan skyscrapers feeding a city via vertical farms) with historical scarcity, advocating AI-managed policies over corrupt human officials and redefining wealth through access-based models. Despite risks like exponential harm or deflationary collapse, Ismail’s vision—bridging corporate and grassroots innovation—prioritizes decentralization as humanity’s path to freedom, health, and shared prosperity, urging listeners to embrace tools like OpenEXO and decentralized platforms to reshape the future collaboratively. [Automatically generated summary]
If you went back to 200 years ago, the 1820s, 97% of the global population lived in extreme poverty.
That's true.
Today it's less than 9%.
You don't see that in the news because it's good news.
We have a J-curve coming where we go from extreme poverty at one end to extreme prosperity on the other end, which is why you see us get bubbly excited about technology, abundance, et cetera.
That future is coming.
How we bridge to that future and how fast can we get there is really the only question right now.
Welcome to today's episode of Decentralized TV.
I'm Mike Adams, and I think you'll really enjoy our special guest today.
And this is a first-time guest, and I'm really honored to have him on the show.
I've been following his work and his interviews, and he is the founder of what's called OpenEXO.
The website is just like it sounds, openexo.com.
His name is Saleem Ismail, and he is, well, he's lived in the United States.
He's also Canadian, and he's a tech expert, but an expert in showing companies how to achieve exponential growth, which is critical in today's economy as things are moving so quickly.
Now, he's an advocate of AI technology, but he goes way beyond just AI.
This isn't just a tech show.
It's about how to innovate in your business and do more with less to hopefully stay ahead of the competition and innovate more aggressively in this competitive environment.
So he's been called Mr. EXO by his guests.
He's also a frequent guest on the Moonshots podcast with Peter Diamandis.
That's also a very popular podcast.
But welcome to the show today, Mr. EXO.
Can I call you that for calling me that?
Great to be here.
I'm a big fan of the overall concept.
I love the name of your show.
So thrilled to be here.
Well, thank you so much.
I'm a big fan of your show and your work.
And here's what's really interesting about today is that your world is more of sort of mainstream corporate world.
You've helped mega multi-billion dollar companies radically expand their revenues with your methods and techniques.
And then my world is more of sort of the maverick independent entrepreneurs and innovators.
And yet where our worlds meet is here with technology and innovation.
So we get to bring together two worlds today.
Very much so.
And, you know, given the state of my boldness, you know which one is more stressful, right?
I'd way rather be over on your side.
Yeah, I'm shocked how much you travel, how many speeches you give.
How do you even keep up?
Well, you know, this all started, I was building what's called Singularity University.
So I was the founding CEO there, built it up for about seven years, and then I wrote the book Exponential Organizations.
And the book took off and I had to kind of go AWOL a bit from SU dealing with this.
And it's been quite a tear for about the last decade.
Just before the pandemic, I was in four cities a week and it was really intense.
Luckily, that hamster wheel is broken a bit and I'm choosing more carefully where I speak.
But it's clear the world, the pace of change is accelerating and it's actually moving much faster than we thought it would.
And that's really quite something.
Yeah, actually, I wanted to bring up your book here, the newer one, Exponential Organizations 2.0, the new playbook for 10x growth and impact, also with your co-host, Peter Diamandis.
And I got to say, you know, you and Peter and the other guests on the Moonshots podcast, sometimes you're characterized as extreme optimists.
But I say, what's wrong with optimism?
You know, I mean, I'd like to think we are more realist.
And there's an important distinction here, right?
Which is that the general tone that you hear in the public, certainly what you see in Hollywood, is almost always very, very dystopian, right?
If you watch any sci-fi Hollywood movie, you end up with Terminator, Skynet, The Matrix, the robot overlords come and take over the world.
If we're lucky, we're pets.
If we're unlucky, we're food.
Kind of always goes down that path.
And then you've got the lone hero trying to save humanity in the middle of all that.
The actual reality of what we are actually seeing is we're integrating technology and amplifying the human experience rather than degrading it, right?
Yes.
I would argue that with my smartphone, I'm more human than I was before because I can project empathy around the world.
I can video with my son for free anywhere in the world.
I can see what's going on in the world.
My eyes and ears are pushed out to a very broad extent.
And so I would argue I'm more human with that rather than less human with that.
I absolutely agree with that argument.
And, you know, I've been accused of being a doomer, and sometimes I'll go down the doom rabbit holes as well.
But it's really important to consider both sides.
Yes.
But then have the freedom of thought to be data-driven about what's actually happening.
Yes.
And our premise philosophically, and mine personally, is very, very simple, which is that technology has always been a major driver of progress in the world.
It might be the only major driver of progress in the world, right?
And now we have, and the thesis at Singularity University was that, okay, we've seen Moore's Law for 60 years, double every 18 months, but now we have a dozen technologies operating on that doubling pattern.
And this is something completely unique in human experience.
And the human benefit that will come from all of these technologies accelerating rapidly is unbelievable.
We just don't see it as well because we're not good at seeing great things.
We're really good at seeing bad things.
Yeah, really good point.
But you said something key there, which is that technology can help us be more human.
And I completely agree with that.
And I think, I mean, we can start with some really basic examples, such as Suno, the AI music engine.
Yeah.
Right.
I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to write a song about this or that, but I couldn't hire a band and do all everything, record all the keyboards.
Suno, all I have to do is describe my idea.
And then I've got it.
It's incredible what's possible today.
And this is a perfect example, right?
At the ultimate end, human beings operate in pure creativity and self-expression and humor in expressing our personalities, in expressing our deepest selves and bringing out to the surface.
And technology is aiding that aspect of it so radically.
We can have longer health spans than we did.
People forget that up to like the 1900s, average lifespan was like 42.
So, you know, most of us listening to this last one, we'd be dead by now, right?
And so technology has given us a radical, a doubling of life extension over the last 150 years or so.
It looks like it's about to double it again in the next 10 years.
And so that's just a magical, amazing thing.
And not so much lifespan, but health span, where you're like, you know, in a cognitive, fantastic mode for much, much longer.
That's just a beautiful thing.
Well, 100%.
And let me ask you to address this related question that I get from people all the time.
I talk about what AI can do.
I talk about content generation and AI cognition and augmented human cognition with the help of AI.
And then the argument that comes to me is, well, they're going to replace all the humans in the corporations.
I'm like, wait a second.
I think people are going to upgrade to more important roles and it's going to end the drudgery of humans doing silly, repetitive things.
That's my take on it.
What do you say?
I'm a thousand times with you.
And by the way, let's just be data-driven about this.
We've seen this repeatedly throughout history.
My favorite example is if you go back to the 1970s, we created ATMs for the first time and we could essentially automate banking.
And there was all sorts of hand-wringing.
Oh my God, what will we do with bank tellers roaming the streets aimlessly?
How will society absorb this?
We'll have chaos reigning, et cetera, et cetera.
All this hand-wringing happened.
What actually happened in reality was that the cost of running a bank branch dropped out by about 10 times.
The banks created 10 times more branches.
And the number of bank tellers has not changed at all.
And this is what we see repeatedly, repeatedly repeated.
I'll give you one more data point, which is the three countries with the highest penetration of robotics in the world are Sweden, South Korea, and Germany.
And the countries with the lowest unemployment in the world are Sweden, South Korea, and Germany.
And it turns out that when we automate, it's exactly what you said.
We shift people up the Maslow's hierarchy.
They become much more effective at doing design thinking, problem solving, increased efficiency.
We don't see radical job loss.
If you like, another example I would give is what's projected to happen in the driving industry.
People are saying, oh, my God, 3 million truck drivers and related jobs will be wiped out because we'll automate truck driving pretty quickly.
If you talk to any trucking company today, they'll tell you they would hire a thousand truckers today if they could.
The demand is so high, they just can't find them because nobody wants to do that work.
And where we'll have AI and robots doing what we call DDD roles, which are dull, dirty, and dangerous jobs.
Almost all white-collar work is dull, right?
And most manual work is dangerous or dirty.
And so you want to have a robot going into noxious fumes in the mines, which doesn't care about oxygen consumption and mining for you and bringing the stuff out.
And you focus on other things.
So this is what we see repeatedly instantiated as the data is rolling out.
We don't see a radical change in that.
And I love what you just said, by the way.
And it's actually a real joy to get to hear you speak for more than little snippets because on the other podcast, they don't let you go the full sentences.
We talk over each other a little bit too much.
No, but you have so many great, amazing co-hosts that every one of them is a genius.
Yeah, I would listen to all of them.
I should just shut up and just listen half the time, which is also part of it.
No, I'm just saying it's a pleasure to hear the depth of your thoughts on this topic.
But what you just mentioned and what I've been saying, and we agree on this point, but it still requires the humans involved in this process to actively upgrade their skills rather rapidly because of the pace at which technology is penetrating the corporate world.
Going forward into the future, whether you're an individual or a company or a small company or a big company, you have only two paths, right?
You're either the disrupter or you're disrupted, right?
There's no middle ground.
You kind of have to pick and not choosing means you're disrupted.
So right now you have to pick up these tools that are available and create your own agency for what's coming in the world because the reality is nobody has any idea what's coming.
And so you better be able to forge your own path.
Yeah, well said.
In fact, let me ask you to just plug your company here and describe to our audience what you do, how you help entrepreneurs and business innovators become way more effective at what they do.
So when I wrote the book, it first came out in 2014.
What we did was we looked at 150 of the fastest growing unicorns and said, how are they doing it?
How are they scaling as fast as technology can scale?
Because for the first time ever, we saw organizations that were scaling in an unbelievable pace.
So Uber scales by not hiring its own staff.
Airbnb scales by not owning its own bedrooms, right?
We saw a whole bunch.
We kind of modeled all of these and teased out a model over like a two, three year research period and documented that in the book.
We then started getting calls from people saying, hey, can you help us implement that?
Procter ⁇ Gamble called up and said, book has required reading across senior management.
And the first thing we did was I wanted to solve what I came across.
So before Singularity, I was the head of innovation at Yahoo running their incubator.
And I came across a problem which is very pervasive culturally, which is you try anything disruptive in a legacy environment, the immune system attacks you.
Yes, yes.
And so big companies struggle with disruptive innovation because all their corporate architecture is designed to reduce risk and withstand risk and reduce uncertainty.
All big companies anywhere and all government agencies are architected for two things, predictability and efficiency.
Efficiency and predictability.
Those are the two things.
But in a volatile world, you need to be architected for agility, flexibility, adaptability, and speed.
And what we did was when the book came out, we scored the Fortune 100 and tracked them for seven years.
And we found that the companies that follow these characteristics the most, the top 10 compared to the Fortune 100, bottom 10 that followed this model the least, delivered 40 times more shareholder returns.
Wow.
Why?
Because as the external world becomes more volatile, your ability to adapt is going to drive market value.
It's very, very simple.
And right now, the Silicon Valley companies are doing the best in the world, not because they're that much smarter.
It's just they are more agile at their core architecture in the core organizational architecture.
They pivot much better than anybody else.
So we advise companies and coach companies.
So we solved that first problem.
We carried out a 10-week engagement that we piloted with Procter ⁇ Gamble.
We've now done it 100 times with big companies around the world.
And we found a way of hacking culture at scale and increasing the metabolism of large organizations.
We've done it also with public sector.
Well, I love that term, increasing the metabolism of large organizations.
That's a great question.
Let me give you a crazy quote.
Jack Welch in his annual report for GE, he was the CEO there in the year 2000, said, if the metabolism of your company gets slower than the outside world, you're dead.
The only question is when, right?
You could argue today that the metabolism of almost every big company in the world is slower than the outside world.
So how do you increase that metabolism?
And so you have to create structures and cultural changes to allow that to happen.
And so that's what we do with big companies and now more and more with governments.
So as we started doing that and it started to work, we started to create a group of consultants.
And I was like, well, I don't want to have to eat our own dog food.
Why would we hire consultants to go do this?
So we started forming a community and that community grew and grew and grew.
And now we're up to 42,000 people in 150 countries.
So we're like a peace corps for transformation.
When somebody says, hey, we want to help transform this division of Siemens Energy or Black ⁇ Decker or HP or Visa, we pull a team together from the community, which allows us to keep our costs low and be maximum agile. And then we send them in. They do the transformation work, et cetera. We're essentially this kind of peace core for the transformation the world is going through today. We're in 150 countries speaking, I think, 48 languages or something. That's extraordinary. So, someone listening to this,
Almost Everywhere On The Planet00:05:30
if they want to engage with your group, OpenEXO, they contact you. They describe their problem or challenge. We need help with X. And we go, right, for that, you want to talk to those three guys over there who've got experience in it, plus experience with our ecosystem and community. Go do that. Wow. Wow. That's that's okay. And again, how many countries did you say? We're in 150 countries. So, so this is this is everywhere,
almost everywhere on the planet in almost every major language. Yeah, and I get you know strange calls. I got a call from the Vatican saying, Hey, the Pope is trying to change the church. His immune system is 2,000 years old, right? So, I went and did a workshop with the senior leaders at the Vatican. Are you kidding me? No,
it was super fun. Because I said in the book, we have AI coming along, and AI may achieve consciousness. How are we going to deal with the morals and ethics of that? Right? Or we can edit my own genome using CRISPR. How do you think about that? Because according to the Bible, only God can change human beings. So, what do we do with that? Or we have life extension coming, right? And I said to them, Your business model is about selling heaven, right? How are you going to sell heaven if people aren't dying? Um,
that had some rich Italian swords. I love your uncensored approach on that. He's just like, just lay it out there. You gotta, you, you know, it's rare you get to speak truth to power. So, I was like, let's just go for it. Yeah, so it was really fascinating cover. And, you know, to their credit, they actually were listening very carefully. And Pope Francis was one of the most profound transformation leaders in the world. He had this amazing ability for generating and spreading tenderness around the world, which is such a huge,
badly needed thing in the world. Yeah, we could use a lot more tenderness right now in the world. And I'm okay. So, let me just give out your website again: openexo.com is where people can learn about it. We do networking events. We do, we have membership levels. We have a weekly session with our pro members where I will go spend a week, spend an hour and a half with them every week where we'll go through what are you building and how can we specifically help you. And then, we, as people need more help or need more capacity,
we point them to folks in our community to get involved. We have all sorts of tools and training that people can take. Wow. Okay. That's amazing. All right. Well, okay, Salim, you've inspired me. Let me share this with you because, you know, I'm an AI developer and a disruptor. I have people calling me asking me for things all the time. Like, how do I do this? So I built an engine and launched it a couple of months ago. It's an open source nonprofit book creation engine called brightlearn.ai. And so far,
we've had 7,500 authors publish 28,000 books. Wow. And they're all free. They're all free to download. And I'm just, this is from today, Awakening Wisdom for Life. What is this? The old Antarctic Explorer's Oracle with an alien on the cover. That's interesting. Off-grid survival,
the soul journey, whatever. I mean, people do. And this is all based, of course, on AI. I put together a data set over two years, you know, a curated data set about a lot of world knowledge. And then my nonprofit put this out for free. And then it just took off. And now we're about to roll out audiobooks free because of the Quinn3 TTS engine that is so amazing. So now I'm like,
let's just throw audio books out there in multiple languages. Well, the reason I bring this up is to get your, you know, your analysis of the fact that every industry, I mean, think about book publishing or the audio book industry. If they don't move very quickly into embracing these kinds of things,
then disruptors like me and you are going to come along and offer an alternative like this for free sometimes. Absolutely. And A, I love the tool. I want to talk further with you about that because all of our community members have book ideas inside their heads and how can they express them. So let's chat about that. Oh,
yeah, I'd love to. But let me give you the core underpinning economic thesis, A, of what's happening today, and B, what we found with the book. Okay. When you're building a business, you worry about managing your cost of demand and your cost of supply. Hopefully,
you're on the right side of that equation. When the internet came along, something interesting happened. It allowed us to drop the cost of demand generation exponentially, right? Online marketing, referral marketing. Every Silicon Valley company is trying for a viral loop, which brought their customer acquisition costs to zero, right? And for the first time in business history, you could acquire customers at very low cost. And you saw this explosion of the first wave of internet businesses, YouTube, Facebook, MySpace, et cetera,
building on the fact that you had very low customer acquisition costs. What EXOs have figured out is how do you drop exponentially the cost of supply? So if you think about Airbnb, the marginal cost of adding a room to their inventory is almost zero. Wow. If you're tight, you have to build a hotel. Same with Waze, same with Uber. So what EXOs do is go into legacy industries and radically drop the cost of supply, which, if you're an incumbent,
is an existential threat. What you just showed me is radically dropping to cost to near zero or at zero publishing a book. We've partnered with a large homeschooling organization, by the way. And now their teachers are using it to generate textbooks for free. Now, if you're Pearson publishing and you're selling textbooks for $100 each, how are you going to compete? And there's something huge happening,
Decentralizing Value Creation00:08:24
which is so important for the decentralization of the world. It's real decentralizing value creation and dropping centralized system costs to near zero, right? Crypto is doing that to the banking world with DeFi. And so this is creating a radical change in the world and really a bifurcation of before and after scarcity to abundance. How will we manage that? The only way we're going to manage that is in a decentralized world. 100%. I'm sure you've covered this,
but are your readers and viewers familiar with what's called the Byzantine generals problem? No, I don't think so. I don't think we've covered that. Can I just touch on that for a second? Okay. So the core innovation in blockchains is the solving of this very old computer science problem. It's actually the story of Constantinople in the 1500s,
this Middle Ages city. And there were eight generals circling the city trying to coordinate an attack. And they were sending messages around that little network saying who's going to go first, how we're going to get in, what time we're going to go, et cetera. The problem they had, which is why it's called the Byzantine generals problem, is that one out of those eight generals was a traitor and could send the wrong information, blow the element of surprise, lose the whole operation. And so in computer science terms,
that became known. The problem became how do you send a trusted, secure, authenticated message over a network when you don't trust the network? Okay. Really hard problem. 40 years of computer science PhDs have been trying to solve that problem unsuccessfully until the blockchain. And on a blockchain,
Because of this distributed ledger capability, when I send you a message, you have 100% guaranteed that it came from me, couldn't be double-entered, couldn't be revoked, et cetera, which is a magical thing in a digital world.
And that's achieved by decentralized consensus.
Decentralized consensus mechanisms, where we have to update all the ledgers using a cryptographic mechanism at the same time allows us now to completely guarantee this centralized authenticated message.
And it solves the Byzantine generals problem.
What it means is you can decentralize authentication.
That's a very powerful concept.
And so let's look at government for a second.
Government has two aspects to it.
About 20% of government is policy formulation.
About 80% of government is policy enforcement.
So you go to a DMV and they're like, are you 18? Do you have a driver's license? Do you have insurance? Do you have the title for the car? All of these questions. And they authenticate all of those things. And then they go, yep, you can transfer ownership of that car. If you can put a bunch of that capability and authenticating on a blockchain,
80% of government functionality gets automated. Yeah. Now it can focus on just the actual policy formulation because authentication can be outsourced and so on. I'll give you one more example just to triangulate this, which is retail banking. We understand retail banking very well. We put in $1,000, it lends it out over there. And we trust our life savings to this centralized authentication,
authenticated ledger. And we pay the banks a truckload of money to manage that centralized ledger. Along comes DeFi or decentralized finance, and I can do exactly that same transaction,
save or borrow against my assets in that model. I don't need the retail bank. So I give retail banking about four or five years before it gets completely disrupted, which is kind of a big deal in the finance world. Yeah. So this is happening now to more and more sectors as we decentralize not just the value creation,
but the authentication of things. We're seeing open source models, DeepSeek and others allow you to generate what you just did with Brightlearn in an amazing way. Anywhere in the world, anybody can do it. And there's two things about technology today that I think are very, very unique that I talk about a lot. One is that we have a dozen technologies all accelerating, AI, computation, blockchains, autonomous cars,
drones are doubling every nine months in their price performance. Okay. So we've never seen this many technologies all accelerate all at the same time. So that's part one. Part two, though, is even more interesting, which is the cost. So it turns out that throughout humanity and throughout our history, it's always been true that advanced technologies cost a lot. And only a government or a big corporate lab could do R D launch new products and services. Today, for the first time in the history of humanity,
advanced technologies are cheap. Solar energy is cheap. Sensors are cheap. Blockchains are open source and free. We'll look at what you can do with open source AI models that are free to download and use. So the cost of disruptive innovation has just gone to zero. Well, absolutely. And I would say the cost of cognition is approaching zero. It is absolutely approaching zero. For example, two years ago when I was first building AI models, I had a team of programmers and they were great,
nothing wrong with them. But six months ago, I just started using cloud code and I found out that instead of me describing the project to this team, I could describe it to Claude. And then Claude would just write the code. And more importantly,
you'll love this, Salim. Then I could work on evenings, weekends, and holidays when nobody else was working so I could get things done and not get distracted by the rest of my company. All my best friends that are software guys are like 18 hours a day buried in cloud. They love it because they can go from pure expression of an idea to running code with total automation on that path,
which is kind of an amazing thing because you actually now are scaling humanity. Yes. And I can't stress this enough that people worry about the automation, but you're actually bringing true expression to each human being and allow them to express themselves and automate anything they want and create anything,
build anything, compose anything in a radically compressed way with hyper-efficiency. Extraordinary. And you're 100% correct. Let me just mention your website again for those who are really resonating with your message and want to learn more from you and your community. The website is called openexo.com. And you're just getting a taste here,
folks, a taste of what's possible with whatever you're trying to do. In fact, Salim, I want to ask you, even large nonprofit organizations can also benefit from the philosophies that you espouse, correct? Yeah, we advise tons of organizations like Save the Children, which is delivering food into Ukrainian kids and war refugees, et cetera, and Gaza and other places to big companies, to governments, et cetera. Because we have a phrase that my head of community, Kevin Allen, created. He said,
this is the decade of the EX. So pretty sure that by the end of this decade, every nonprofit, for-profit, big company impact project will be structured this way because we have the evidence that it's just better. These characteristics we're finding to be more and more accurate as time goes by. It's led to some side effects,
which is when I first wrote the book, I asked other business authors, hey, how old is this go? I've never written a book before. They're like, oh, business book, you'll have a shelf life of about 12 to 18 months. So milk it while it's hot, because then something else is going to come along and you'll be, you know, yesterday's news. So I'm like, great. So I tell my wife, okay, I may be really busy for like 18 months. And then that turned into two years, turned into four years. Six years later, she's like, hello, when are you getting home? And I'm like, damn, I've created a monster here. And we've now, I think,
just crossed a million sales of books around the world. Wow. Congratulations. So publisher is very happy. Wife, you know, less happy. But now I can stay home and do a lot more podcasts and other things like this. It's a little easier. So it's good. Okay. That's that's fantastic. And again, I want to encourage people to check out your books. They're on Amazon and other booksellers. Now, let me ask you about radical abundance and decentralization and then deflation of food pricing. Wow. Okay. So let me just do one more thing. Sure. Yeah,
go for it. It's true to our form. We actually self-published this second edition. It's free to read on our website. Oh, so okay. And there's an AI where we put all of the corpus of the book and all the interviews and case studies. So you can say, hey, I've got a Brazilian shipping company. How do I turn it into an EXO? And it literally, for free, tell you, here's what you need to do. Wow. And is that the engine that's right? I see it on your homepage. Is that the engine? Just go to openexo.com/slash chat. Oh,
Rising Food Prices and Robotic Solutions00:15:00
slash chat. Okay. Great. And it's right there on our homepage. You can just click on it. So you're asking about food and what happens with that. Yeah. Let me give you a lead-in on that because you may not know this about me, but I'm a food scientist. I've run a food science mass spec laboratory for many years. I do crazy things like drinking food smoothies and nutrition and things like that. And I have mentioned to people, you know, food prices have been rising and rising. And I've said to people,
the number one robot that I want is a weed-pulling robot. Because if I have a weed-pulling robot, then I can scale local food production because pulling weeds is the worst part of growing food, right? Right. So tell me,
you know, we talk about abundance and people are experiencing food prices rising. And they also want local food, which tends to be more nutritious and they don't have to use all those same pesticides or whatever. So they can make it more holistic or organic. But when robots can move dirt with a shovel,
when they can harvest tomatoes, how is this going to change agriculture? Wow. Okay. Let me talk about agriculture for a second and then lift up to a couple of other things around the same thing. But let's deal with agriculture, right? It's like the second oldest industry ever. We've been doing horizontal farming forever. What's about to hit us, and it already has in subtle ways, is the automation at a radical level of horizontal farming,
meaning we have drones that scan farms to see using infrared to see where there are hotspots that diseases are breaking out and cut off and surround that plant and protect others from the spread, et cetera. That's happening already. But the biggest thing that's happening that people aren't really watching that carefully is vertical farming. Okay. So if you stack lettuce in a vertical farmed shelf,
you can drip feed water to them. We have sensors that know exactly what nutrients the plants need so you can give them exactly that amount of nutrient. We know what wavelengths the plants are optimized for so we can give them exactly those wavelengths. You can operate it 24-7. When you have a good successful vertical farm,
you generate about seven to eight times the yield of horizontal farming. Okay. With no pesticides, no weed pulling, any of that stuff. That is just crossing over into economic viability. Most of the arugula or lettuce you eat today is already vertically farmed. I'll give you the calculation that we've seen that blows my mind on a non-stop basis. So the best calculation I've seen is if you took 35 skyscrapers in Manhattan and turned those into vertical farms,
that would feed the entire city sustainably. And that's the thing is that food can be produced locally in the cities. Locally, like on your building wall. So we already have restaurants. I've seen one in Brazil where the four walls of the restaurant,
outside and inside, are just covered with vegetables and plants. And that feeds the whole restaurant. This is like nuts. So think of all the food logistics. The average meal travels 2,500 miles to reach the U.S. table. Wow. That's a crazy number. In terms of food security,
food supply, pesticides, threat of illness, pandemics coming from all that. It's just a huge thing that we'll be able to change radically, decentralizing food supply in a magical way. And that is now about to go crazy. So that's farming,
okay, and agriculture and food supply. But if I lift up a level, I'm on the board of the XPRIZE Foundation, right? We give large public prizes wherever we see market failures. We just gave out a $100 million prize for carbon extraction at scale out of the atmosphere. The prize that we've got in the books right now that we're kind of designing and waiting to get funding is an abundance prize. And the prize will be,
can you drop the cost of housing, food, education, healthcare to $250 per person per month in the US? Okay. Now,
what about energy? Energy is built into that. Oh, I see. Housing, healthcare, education, whatever, all, because if you can do energy, housing, energy is built into that. Okay. All right. Got it. So the prize is going to be one when somebody can demonstrate $250 a month per person. Now,
what happens is when you have AI-based systems and radical new systems like a modular building where robots can build the houses, robots can grow the plants on the walls, et cetera. We have AI doctors already in healthcare that can diagnose people much better than a human being can. You should be able to get to that level. Imagine what's possible. This is why Elon on our podcast a couple of weeks ago said in about four or five years,
you won't need to save for a retirement anymore because the cost is going to drop so low that anybody can afford it. And the government will essentially cover that because $250 a month per person is not a difficult thing for the economy to generate. So this is a very powerful, massive concept. It's going to happen. It's going to happen. The only question is when. This is not an if. What we found is once we compose an XPRIZE and get to the prize parameters,
it typically gets won within seven or eight years. Interesting. Let's say it takes longer and it takes 10 years. That assumes that by 2035, 2036, the cost of living for the US will drop to near a very manageable number below the cost of poverty today for anybody in the world. That's an amazing thing to be able to say. That's the future that's coming that most people don't realize. However,
this has a huge issue for the economy because it means radical deflation, right? And it means a massive change in regulatory and how we operate, how we governance completely changes,
all sorts of things have to change. But that's the end point that's possible that we're very excited about. But it does mean a whole hearted change to the economy because our fiat currency systems can't navigate a technology deflationary world. That's a really important point. Is that prize? Is it defined in today's dollars or the dollars at the year? The dollars at the time? No,
today's dollars. Today's dollars. Oh, okay. Right. I'll give you a hard data point from the past. Okay. If you went back to 200 years ago, the 1820s, 97% of the global population lived in extreme poverty. That's true. Okay. And that's about, that's $2 equivalent in 2011 dollars, going back to whenever. So maybe it was like 10 cents 200 years ago, But the equivalent of $2 a day in 2011 dollars.
Sorry, it was 94%.
That number.
Today it's less than 9%.
So we've actually dropped extreme poverty globally from 94% to 89% in the last 200 years.
You don't see that in the news because it's good news.
And so that will drop to.
Bill Gates thinks we'll eradicate extreme poverty by the end of this decade.
So we have a J curve coming, where we go from extreme poverty at one end to extreme prosperity on the other end, which is why you see us get bubbly excited about technology, abundance, et cetera.
That future is coming.
How we bridge to that future and how fast can we get there is really the only question right now.
Yeah, there's going to be a lot of disruption between now and then, but I tell you what, I'm doing my part. I'm focused on free knowledge for humanity to share knowledge in every language, in any format, any medium. But let me, I agree with your vision of radical abundance, but let me push back for a moment with some things that people have said to me. And we want to talk about the actual physical hard limits of what's behind all of this. For example,
I mentioned power earlier. The power grid in the United States is not nearly as strong and resilient as, let's say, China's power grid. And the Eastern power grid, where you are also, what's it called? JPM, I think, is particularly strained because of data centers coming online. In addition, robot manufacturing at scale requires a tremendous amount of raw materials. Yes. And those raw materials have to be typically mined. And we're all familiar with the rare earths,
the neodymium, the dysprosium, the terbium, whatever. Plus, silver is skyrocketing right now. Silver is used and it's becoming more physically scarce. So how do you view the issue of what you and I both agree is a radical abundance in things that can be created with AI or things that can be automated? But there's also hard physical limits in the world of how quickly we can scale to that. What do you say to that? Very accurate if you operate on current paradigms. But the hard,
maybe the hardest part that I find in politicians and in thinkers is to project out not just the demand side, but the supply side. Let me explain what I mean by that. So people always, always, always underestimate how radically the cost of things is falling. So for example, when Elon, let me give you a few data points. When Elon creates the Tesla 2011, 2012, when it first comes out, all the car companies go,
that's bullshit. The cost of lithium-ion, look at it. Look at the cost of lithium-ion batteries. That's like 70% of the car. You can't build a car economically. That's bullshit. What Elon does, by the way, he does this for all his companies. He looks at a technology, whether it's lithium-ion costs or solar energy increases or mural interface speed, and he looks at 10 years. Where will that technology be on a 10-year exponential pattern? So if drones are doubling every nine months in their price performance, well,
where will that be in 10 years? That's like 11 doublings. That's a pretty amazing. That's a million-fold increase in capability. Okay. So he looks at 10 years and then he builds a company to intercept that curve. Sure enough, The cost of lithium-ion batteries today is about 94% down.
That's right.
First created Tesla.
That's right.
It's dirt cheap now.
Dirt cheap.
Nobody sees that part of it.
I'll give you a more tangible example.
The jet fuel needed to cross the Atlantic in the 1970s compared to today.
We use about two-thirds less jet fuel today than we did 50 years ago because people didn't understand what altitudes were most efficient, what routes to fly, where would the wind be the worst? Because then planes started telling other planes, hey, the wind is really bad here, go down a few thousand feet, whatever. And now we're like two-thirds more efficient at crossing the Atlantic than we were 50 years ago,
right? People forget that the deflationary aspect of the supply side. And this is what's the killing to fiat currencies. Because fiat currencies rely on an inflation-based thing should cost more over time. Here's the macro example I use for fiat currencies. Let's say I borrow $10 million to build a TV factory. And according to my business model,
I'm going to sell those factories for $1,000 each. Great? All great. Okay. Except, and that worked, say, until about the mid-70s. And then technology prices started dropping. If I build a TV factory today, in a year, I can sell those TVs for $1,000.
They're only worth $500.
A year later, they're only worth $250.
I can never pay back the $10 million.
And that's how we're building the global economy.
We're building it on a money printing system based on the increase in prices.
But the reality is prices are dropping.
So we're having to print even more money and issue more debt.
That's why the debt is so high.
And that system is going to structurally fail.
That's why Bitcoin got created.
People saw that this system doesn't work.
Let's create an alternative to it. And that's the alternative hedge. Jeff Booth, who wrote The Price of Tomorrow, would be a worthwhile guest for your program. He made a really startling observation in his book. It's called The Price of Tomorrow. And the observation was that over the last, Say, 50 years, every dollar increase in GDP globally has come with a $4 increase in global debt.
Right.
So try going to a bank and saying, I want to borrow a million bucks and I'm going to return you $250K.
And see how quickly you get walked out the door.
We're literally printing money to borrow from the future at a 4X rate to sustain economic growth today.
Yeah.
And you're right.
Deflation terrifies the central banks.
Deflation terrifies the central banks.
They can't navigate it.
So they just end up.
The only two left is to print more money.
The US dollar is deflating at about 14% a year.
So any investments you have have to do minimum 14% to keep purchasing parity, right?
Well, and let me add one more aspect to this that actually I think further underscores what you're saying here. This falls in the radical abundance physical category, which is new battery chemistry innovations that we're now seeing. So not only, you know, you talked about lithium,
but sodium ion is now being rolled out by Katil out of China. And then I saw out of a lab out of China, I saw sodium sulfur battery chemistry that achieves 10x energy density of kilowatt hours per kilogram. So let's look at this just for a second, right? If you went back 20 years and you had lithium-ion batteries and you were like, okay, what could I do to improve the efficiency of batteries? You might have a research that thought, oh,
maybe sulfur ion is better. Maybe lithium air is better. And they would test that compound and then they would test the next compound and they'd test the next compound. There's a database that got created over the last 10 years called the Materials Project. What they've done is taken five,
half a million compounds and cataloged in great detail the electrical, physical, chemical properties of these. Really? Really? So if you want a compound that has holds its voltage like this and has this type of thermal retention, da-da-da-da-da,
instead of testing compound, you can just go to this database and go, I want something that'll fit these parameters. It'll spit out the five you need that make your criteria and you're already 95% of the way there. Okay. That's before we add AI to the mix. Now with AI added to the mix, you could say to an AI, go engineer a compound that has these characteristics whose materials engineering is about to radically change. And you engineer around all of the rare earth things. So you can basically say, take dysperbulium,
whatever version that you need for whatever, and say, give me something that has those characteristics and engineer me a molecule that costs one-tenth as much. And people forget that we are able to do that today, and we'll be getting 10x better at that every quarter now going forward. And as we do that, you start to see where the path comes to radical abundance in all of these areas. Already in solar energy, we've seen this transition where silicon panels are very inefficient,
Updating the Constitution with AI00:15:35
use a lot of rare earths. You have the current administration going, well, we need to drill more oil because clearly we can't do that. Well, already there's a new material called perovskite. I'm familiar with it, which is way cheaper than lithium silicon, right? It's got a higher efficiency even and it's abundance. It's like a salt. So you spray the sun and you're done. They just need to figure out how to get the maintenance right, but that's an engineering problem, not an invention problem. As we scale perovskite systems,
we solve completely the solar energy problem. And go back to Elon's comment: if you took 100 by 100 miles square in Idaho, that would power the entire U.S. electricity needs. Yeah, yeah, he's right about that. And I think Elon is correct about saying the only energy source we need in the solar system is the sun. Obviously, it's not. Well, and let's note for anybody that's not clear that fossil fuels are just an old battery that the sun powered years ago. Good point. What's been missing? Oh,
I'm sorry. But what's been missing and now with the breakthroughs in battery technology, why this matters is because we haven't had efficient storage that could cycle the number of times that we need to cycle to have daily grid shifting off of solar. Now that's coming into existence. So with these sodium ion batteries, you can do 10, 20,000 cycles. So if I lift up to the societal level and we look at your decentralization theme,
right? Then imagine the following. If you're a town or a community or a city and you have vertical farming, solar energy, satellite internet, why do you need a city? Why do you need a country? And all the constraints that come with that. So we're going to decentralize society now in a very aggressive way,
in a magical way, in a very abundant way. And this is the massive opportunity that exists for humanity. And Salim, you said it so perfectly right there. And I just want to share this vision with you too. I think as battery technology goes 10x and 100x and 1000x in terms of energy storage density,
I think that one day local currency could simply be gigawatt hours in your pocket. 100%. That's what Bitcoin is essentially energy, right? Stored energy. That's right. So it's all through energy. Proof of work. It's right there. So we'll be doing that on a, it's the cleanest, what we call the inner loop, right? So, we talk a lot about this on the podcast where you'll have robots putting down solar panels, collecting the electricity off the solar panel,
creating intelligence from that solar panel. Then, robots build the robots that create more solar energy to do that. You create a loop. Once we get that inner loop, you're done. You basically just have a positive flywheel effect, and all of a sudden you have radical abundance across the entire world very, very quickly. And again, you're nailing it. But I want you to comment on the idea that I think also wealth. We have to redefine wealth because wealth, I believe,
is going to be access to cognition, access to compute. It's completely going to be that. And this causes enormous stress and challenges because, you know, take any business for the last 10,000 years. It was really about selling scarcity. Right. If you didn't have scarcity, you didn't have a business. You got a legal, you had an asset or a workforce or a great chef or a design team or a hotel on a beach in a beautiful cove,
and you put a legal boundary around that and you sold access to scarcity. And that's been the basis of almost all business. But what we're seeing is now the shift to abundance-based business models. Okay. Right. Let me give an example. If you went back 10 years ago, you had seven or eight music studios selling cassettes, CDs, DVDs, selling the physical scarcity to distribute music. Then we digitize music. Now we have two platforms, iTunes and Spotify, selling you an abundance of music on a subscription model,
essentially the exponential organization version of the product. That transition from product single sale to abundance subscription model is what we expect to see in energy, healthcare, education, literature, you name it, right? The freemium models, all of this type of thing. That's the model that's transitioning, happening now across industries. Soon, once we have autonomous cars, you'll pay a subscription model per car, like 10 cents per mile driven,
and you just pay that model at very low cost and you're done. Okay. So right now, it's about $3 a mile for an Uber. It looks like a Tesla robo taxi will be able to do it for about 30 cents a mile. Wow. Yeah,
that's good. 10x drop. What happens when you can drive your kids around for 10x less, right? Yeah. Now we sell. By the way, you own a car. It's the second most expensive purchase you have. It depreciates while you own it and it sits empty 94% of the time. True. Well,
and that can be running AI inference while it's charging in your garage, right? There's so many things that all of this capability will allow us to automate. All these pockets of latent abundance will start being tapped, right? The Tesla store,
the battery storage and all the Teslas collectively is adding up to very interesting marginal grid protection, right? And so there's all these things we'll be able to tap and AI will help automate all of that. So this is why we get so bubbly excited. We can see the beginnings of this. The jigsaw puzzle pieces are now kind of starting to form. And we're like,
holy crap, the future is just so goddamn amazing. How the hell can you be pessimistic in today's world? Well, but let me ask you about the there are sectors that you mentioned that will have strong resistance. I think Elon even ran into this when he was doing the Doge activities in government. So in particular,
healthcare doesn't want to change in the way that you and I might want it to change and government. So I got a lot of pushback one day when I said, hey, I don't want a human senator, especially not the ones we have in Texas. What I want is I want an open source AI model as a senator that we vote on the prompt. 100%. Oh, yeah,
vote on the prompt. Love it. Vote on the prompt. Yeah. So do you know Albania has already implemented an AI minister? Saw that. Right. So to fight corruption. All the other human ministers are like, oh, shit. So this AI is going to be really clever at watching at everything they do. This is such a no-brainer. Let me give you my favorite example of this: I'm a central bank and I want to drop inflation by 1%. Okay. I've got a certain set of tools available to me,
interest rates, LIBOR rates, whatever, whatever. And I've got old data that's about two quarters old. And so it's frail. And my mind can only grasp a certain piece of that data. So I'm basically guessing. I'm completely guessing what it's going to take to drop inflation. Now,
if you had an AI that was tracking all financial transactions in the country in real time, it's going to figure out and say, here are the 10 ways in which you could drop inflation by 1%. If you do five of these or this batch or this group,
you'll do it by 2%. And then a human being just has to ratify which ones are acceptable and go click and we're done. Right. So this is the Mo Godat path of let's use AI and move to AI management of the world as fast as we can. It'll just be so much more effective than human beings are. And we skip past all this BS and get straight to radical abundance very,
very quickly. Governance should not be done by human beings in the same way that driving should not be done by human beings. Okay. Well, we are very poor systems control systems for two-ton cars going at high speed. I tend to agree with the premise. However, my audience and I, we will share some concerns. We want privacy, right? We still want to have privacy to the extent we can. Now, I know that Diamandis would say there's no such thing as privacy, right? Yeah, but look,
who do you want privacy from? That's the big question. Okay. In Europe, they want privacy from corporations. And in the U.S., they want privacy from government. The big difference between the US and Europe is in the US, they will trust corporations and not the government. And in Europe,
they trust government, but not the corporations. Interesting. I'm Canadian. I kind of sit in the middle. Well, I don't trust the corporations or the government. No, neither. Exactly. You have to be self-sovereign going forward. And so now you have to push government to getting you there. The problem that I see in the US is not government. Because let's note that the US,
in theory, you're for the people, by the people, of the people. So what are you complaining about? It's government is you. As opposed to other countries where I've lived in eight countries for more than a year each. So I've got lots of experience with different systems, France, for example, et cetera. So I can comment on this to a higher degree than many people. The US has had what's called regulatory capture, and it's actually government is run by the corporations. 100%. Healthcare policy, food policy, industrial beef,
industrial cheese. Absolutely. USTA. You have to break that. Now, to break that, you have to have the citizens demanding that money is not in politics because the big companies have the money to fund politics. And this is where Citizens United was a massive disaster for the country. I think the Constitution,
I'm 100% clear that the Constitution is the most beautiful document ever created. But let's also note a Constitution is like software. It has to be updated. This is my beef with the originalists, right? They're like, let's go back to what the framers thought. No, the framers knew that the world would change and they built structures. And so you adapt the Constitution as time goes by. There are so many amendments that need to be updated in the US Constitution, but we don't have the mechanism to update those. If you don't update software,
what happens? You get bugs, you get patches, you get security breaches. And we're seeing that today. And we're not updating the Constitution. Now, how are you going to update the Constitution? Guess what? AI is going to be really good at helping us update the Constitution. How we get it implemented is a whole other problem. Well,
that's the thing. The framers could never have anticipated AI cognition that we have today. And that's why, see, when I was smart enough to go, we'll put in the structures to adapt to the conditions that are there at the time that people want to change. But to put an end cap on this,
I'll say that I actually trust open source AI with chain of thought reasoning where I can monitor the output. I trust that system more than I trust a human senator. 100%. 100%, right? Because then you don't know that senators doing deals in the background. The only thing you know about a human senator is they've been bought. Exactly. So let me give you, let me give you a quick example. I had a friend, and I'll ask him if it's okay that we reveal his name,
but he went through 10 years of getting legislation passed for a very worthy cause. Nobody would argue with the cause that this was. And it took him 10 years. Wow. And I said to him, you know, how was the experience? And he goes, I have the most bitter taste in my mouth after going through this experience because we talked to every senator and every congressman and their staff. It took us like 10 years. We finally got it done. I'm like, well, what's so bitter? You got it done. He's like, no, the problem is that, okay, you see a senator,
you see a congressman. You know that they were trying to fundraise and you know that they're power hungry and you know that but you think that doing the right thing would be somewhere on their list. Maybe it's not number one, maybe it's three, maybe it's number four, maybe it's number five, but you think is on the list. And I'm like, yeah, he goes, not on the list. Wow. Not on the list for any of them. Wow. Any of them. Right. And you're like, really? It's that bad? And he's like, it's that bad. And he was like, I've never seen, he's a dear,
dear friend. He's one of my mentors. And he was so disgusted by this experience, right? We need to get past all of that and just move completely past it. And AI, this much more objective that's open source,
you look up with a set of values like the U.S. Constitution or the Bill of Rights and say, go implement policies like this that give us the outcomes of this constitutional framing. And let's let it go and watch how much better the world gets. I just want to say AI actually knows the Constitution better than most members of the House from the state of Texas. And that's not an exaggeration. That's absolutely true. Yeah. I was on Tom Bill You's Impact Theory. Oh,
yeah, yeah. And I was complaining about the Second Amendment. And he's like, yeah, like that doesn't say that. Bring it up. And he looks at it. He goes, oh, I'd never read it before. It's really just one line. I was like, how can you not have read the Second Amendment? He's like, man, I'm going to get flamed by my people. It's a brilliant document,
misinterpreted and ignored. And now we're shredding it as we unfortunately it is being shredded right now. That's true. So, okay. We're almost out of time. I want to be respectful to your time. I just want to say, number one, I so much enjoy talking with you. You're brilliant and you have really thought in depth about these issues. And very few people I encounter have even really thought about where this is all going. You have. So congratulations. You know,
I love what you're bringing up. My MTP or my massive purpose, which is one of the key attributes of exponential organizations, is what is your massive transformative purpose? My MTP is to transform civilization. So it's a niche project. And why? Because I'm kind of finding myself at the cutting edge of technology and at the cutting edge of organizational design. Right. And so I'm able to comment on,
okay, listen, here's the technologies coming. Here's how we need to organize for it. And if you can do that, we actually radically get to radical abundance in a very painless, seamless way. We don't have to fight it out. And you know, what's interesting, too, I mean, you're in New York. I'm in Texas. We probably have totally different, you know, friends of political circles or corporate circles or whatever. Yet, this important common ground about radical abundance and why we need to embrace this,
this is what's becoming apparent in this conversation. People like you and I need to help lead our, you know, the people that we influence. We need to lead them into this brighter future. We don't, we don't have to starve and suffer and end up in a war or whatever. We can all be better off. It's we have kind of two futures,
right? We've got either a Star Trek future or a Mad Max future. Right. And it's pretty clear that both are happening. I thought we'd end up with one or the other. I was wrong. We're ending up with both at the same time. True Queen or Gaza, which is straight down Mad Max or Minneapolis,
right? And we've got Star Trek. If you go to China, you get a drone delivering you coffee and it's amazing. And so how can we get to that model as quickly as possible? I think the objective is great. Again, love your show. Totally love it. Well, thank you so much, Salim. I'm really honored that you took the time to join me today. And let me give out your website again one more time. It's openexo.com. If you have any kind of nonprofit organization, commercial or otherwise,
and you need help to exponentiate your growth, then this is the organization that can help you. So go there, sign up. It's free to join and become part of the community. But of course, if they need expertise, That's going to cost something.
China's Drone Delivery00:04:03
But that's the next step.
If they want to do that.
Because we're decentralized, it's actually very inexpensive.
A really good point.
So, any last thoughts you want to say before we wrap this up?
I think it's really critical that people follow what's happening with technology and put on the optimism hat.
It's so easy to put on the doomer hat right now.
There's so many chaotic things happening.
Can I mention one of them for a couple of minutes?
Of course.
This is totally uncensored.
You can do whatever you want here.
So, you know, we've got this crazy conversation happening around AGI, right?
Yeah, Which nobody knows what it is.
And we're freaking out about it because we think AI is going to come along and become the robot overlord and it's going to wipe out humanity accidentally or intentionally or whatever.
And you have to kind of figure and watch, like, please don't watch too many Hollywood movies around this before you start thinking that's the future because you actually see people like yourself enabling, empowering themselves with AI in a really radical way. My wife has just started doing workshops for teenagers on saying, hey,
how do you use AI as a superpower to go from future shock to future shape? Right. And so they're seeing how do you have radical agency going forward? And that's what we're going to be ending up with with AI, with technology. We'll have radical self-dependency and radical agency going forward. And that's really an amazing thing where you can choose your path into the future and choose where do you want to express yourself and technology will get us there. And if all goes well,
we'll be able to cut through all of this bureaucratic BS that's going on and get to that future in a pretty interesting way. So I'm very, very excited about the future. It's going to be kind of an ugly path to it, but it's pretty good clear that the outcome on the other side is going to be amazing. Well, I've been guilty of some doom on this before, but today my-realistic, by the way. It's not unrealistic. We shouldn't kind of, it's not fair to, you know, you have to also be realistic and go, wow, look at all of this,
right? Look at the damage that this could do. Throughout history, we've had this where people have the struggle of how do you extract promise of technology without the peril. If you want back 3,000 years, I can use fire, new invention, great. I can use it to heat my home. I can use it to burn down yours. How do we pick, right? And we've done a pretty damn good job over those millennia of extracting that promise without the peril. And now we have like pretty amazing lives, extreme poverty down to like less than 10%,
et cetera. The challenge now is as the technology amplifies, the ability for one person to do a lot of damage is going up exponentially. How do we capture that and restrict the damage that people can do? 100%. 100%. Big thing. The whole agency of AI, I think, is overblown. I think one day I should debate Roman on this one because he's the biggest doomer that I know. I've had him on the show, yes. Yeah. So he's one of our singularity alumni. And important points to take into account,
let's watch for these things. Let's set up scenario planning and say, okay, as we start tilting into the bad scenario, what are the protective mechanisms we can implement to guide us away from that? And let's note that we've done this very well over the centuries. We just have to keep going and be much more vigilant about it. And my default answer now to people who say,
well, the robots might kill us, I say, have you seen what humans are doing right now? It's like, come on. Who needs Skynet, you know, when we have all these other forms of violence that are being inflicted upon innocent people all over the world, right? Quick,
quick message for all the people building humanoid robots. Maybe kickboxing is not the first skill you want to have. Right? Have played. Weed pulling robots. Weed pulling robots. There you go. That's what I want. Let's go back to that. Awesome. Okay, Salim, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much. I appreciate your time. And thank you for all that you do. And hope to talk to you again soon. Great conversation. All right. Take care now. All right. There you go, everybody. Wow. What an extraordinary person and just a real visionary. And so check out his website,
Decentralization's Core Lesson00:02:54
openexo.com. And I love having these conversations with highly intelligent, well-informed people who also have a passion for helping humanity, which we share, you know. And all of you watching, you know, look,
whether or not you agree or disagree with every single thing that I said or he said, it doesn't matter. You understand? We are good faith people working to help humanity do well, to have abundance and to have compassion, to have health and to have joy in your lives. That's really what this show is ultimately about. So thank you for watching. I'm Mike Adams, the founder of Decentralized TV. Until next time, take care. Join the official discussion channel for this show on Telegram at t.me slash decentralized TV,
where you can ask questions or offer suggestions of who we should interview next. Also be sure to subscribe to the email newsletter on decentralized.tv, where you'll be alerted about one day in advance of each new upcoming episode before it gets published. On decentralized.tv,
you'll also find links to our video channels and social media channels across all platforms, including Brighteon, Rumble, BitChute, Twitter, Truth Social, and more. Check it all out at decentralize.tv. All right, welcome back. This is the after party, except we don't have Todd Pittner with us today because he got stuck in a traveling. Well, you know, he took his wife on a, it's like a 25-year anniversary or something like that. He took her to this beautiful island,
and he was sending me all these videos, you know, making me jealous. Here I am freezing my balls off in Texas, you know, jogging, doing kettlebells outside in 20-degree weather. And he's, he's texting me like, you know, the beautiful sunset on the beach. So he made me plenty jealous with that. And then the flight, his flight got messed up. So he didn't make it for today's show. So we don't have the normal Todd Pittner after party,
but he'll be back with us next time. So what I thought I would do here, just briefly, this won't be maybe as much fun because having Todd here is always a blast. But I would like to just offer a little monologue here. And this is not scripted, but just in thinking about the conversation that I just had with Salim. And one of the most important parts of this entire thing, of this interview today, and one of the reasons I loved it so much,
is because you notice that, you know, Salim comes from a different world than I do. Salim, you know, he's able to meet with people like Elon Musk and the Pope and the corporate world and the proctor and gambles of the world. And, you know, that's not the world that I operate in. My world is more, you know, sort of mavericks and maybe renegades or whistleblowers or people, you know, really, really intelligent pioneers and innovators,
Decentralization And A Better Life00:11:46
but not mainstream people. But guess what? What you just watched here today is a demonstration of why both of these worlds have recognized the same core lesson. That core lesson is that decentralization of power,
of knowledge, of money, of compute is the answer for humanity to make humanity better in terms of our knowledge, in terms of our freedom, in terms of our health, our abundance, our joy, just quality of life, and achieving the things that we're here to achieve. And I want to say about all of this,
our world is not about political parties. It's not about left versus right. And, you know, if you haven't yet realized that it's all the same uniparty, you know, you're already late to the game because it's all the same party. And that party is obsolete, whatever you want to call it, whatever labels you want to use, that's obsolete. Because the decentralization of technology and compute,
as Salim mentioned throughout the show today with numerous examples, is making all those old systems utterly obsolete very rapidly. And that's a positive thing. You know, the future should not look like the past. If it does, we've failed. The future can be much better than the past. And of course, as I mentioned during the show, I want to protect privacy from government and corporations. I want to be able to live in a self-reliant manner. I want to grow my own food,
right? I want to be able to determine what I'm allowed to read or to be able to express myself in congruence with the First Amendment. And, you know, unlike Salim in New York, I'm in Texas. And yeah, I have a lot of guns because I use them on my ranch. I take care of chickens and donkeys and goats. And, you know, I've got predators out there that are always trying to eat the animals, you know. So it's different cultures. But what we have in common,
again, is that the future can be made much, much better. And we don't have to stay stuck in the past. I'm still going to live in Texas. I'm still going to live off-grid as much as possible. But these technologies will allow people like me and you listening to do that more effectively. We talked about advanced battery technology. That will allow us to live off-grid,
where we can just erect some solar panels and we can store the solar energy at night and we don't even have to be connected to the power grid. Talk about decentralization. And then when we have robotics locally, I've talked about this. If you want to get out of the city and live in rural America like I do, it's going to take a lot of work. You have to physically do a lot of things. I've learned a lot of crazy things like how to build goat-proof fences and how to maintain a John Deere tractor,
change the starter on a skid steer, dirt mover, you know, lots of things like that. Not everybody's down for that. Not everybody wants to shovel dirt around and plant rows of tomatoes and do the irrigation that's necessary to grow crops. Well,
automation is going to help you do that. Automation is going to make it easier to live in a more decentralized manner. And if you prefer to live in the city, that's fine. That's your choice too. You'll have more access to local food with vertical farming in the cities. And in fact,
you'll have robotic assistants that can help you do things like, hey, go out and buy some fresh mangoes for me at the local market. Go, robot, go get that done. And it'll go do that for you and bring it back so that you don't have to spend time being a shopper. You can spend time being a creator. You can stay at home and create things. You can create ideas. You can write books. You can write music. You can build businesses. You can launch new amazing projects with the help of cognition. And it doesn't matter where you live in the city or the country,
you can be more decentralized and you can have a better life because of the technology that Salim and I are talking about. And again, this is actually the common unifier that can bring together so many people in our fractured society where we have so much on the left and the right,
and sometimes it gets racial, sometimes it's black versus white, or sometimes it's LGBT versus Christians or whatever. Those are all fake separation strategies, really,
by the powers that be that want to keep us warring with each other while they maintain control of an obsolete system that suppresses us and keeps us down. The best way for us to become better people and to have a better quality of life is to embrace universal uplifting of all people. And that's why I routinely argue for the principles of free speech. For example,
I believe free speech applies to every person. Every person on the left or the right, every person who, even if they have a different lifestyle than me, they look different, they have a different skin color, they speak a different language, they talk with a different accent. It doesn't matter. Everybody has the same First Amendment right. It's not even, I mean, it's beyond a right. It's also an obligation. You should express yourself. And so these principles, as we were talking about, the First Amendment, the Second Amendment,
the Fourth and Fifth Amendments, these principles, they do need to be now augmented with this technology because nothing augments the First Amendment better than AI expression, text generation, book generation, music generation, video generation, being able to express yourself. AI research agents being able to conduct the research and build the books that you want to write. I hear from people every day, they love the book engine that I built at brightlearn.ai because they say, you know,
for years I've had these 10 book projects that I've wanted to get done and I've never had the time to do them because every book would take months. Now every book takes minutes. They just take all their notes and they feed it into the prompt. You know, Corey Engelat did this. He took all his notes, he took a bunch of transcripts and interviews that he did with a bunch of people, fed it in, and boom, creates an amazing book. And then he's selling that book on Amazon. And he's actually earning money off a book,
which is totally allowed because we offer it under a Creative Commons attribution license. You can use the books commercially. So you see what I'm saying? So now you can use this AI technology. You can revolutionize your income streams. You can revolutionize your creativity,
your passion, your activism, whatever that may be. What do you care about? Do you love to rescue animals? Wildlife rescue. If that's your thing, do it. Do you love to feed starving people? Do it. There are plenty of people starving in the world right now, believe it or not, which is insane because we know how to grow food. But it's politics that stands in the way. So if that's your passion, use technology to help you achieve that. If your passion is building amazing, you know,
new living structures for people that are affordable, affordable housing for Americans instead of all these giant mansions that, frankly, have too much square footage to try to maintain anyway. You can make that your passion and you can use AI technology to help you achieve that to help others. See, we've got to get past this whole era of fighting one side versus the other, one party versus the other. And you realize, you know, both parties just want to keep you down, really,
ultimately. We got to get past that and realize that we have to help each other organically. This is a grassroots, decentralized, technological, civilizational revolution. We have to help each other. We have to reach out to each other and offer to each other, which is like what I do with all our free AI tools. That's why I keep them free because I want you to use them. I want you to copy the books. I want you to spread them around. I'm put them on the torrent websites, you know,
spread knowledge. That's how we make it out of this current era. Understand, this might be controversial, but so what? We are not living in the world that we deserve. We deserve to be living in a world much better than the one that we are experiencing right now. In other words, to say it two different ways. Why? Because we've been held back. We've been held down. And lots of things have been denied to humanity. A lot of technologies, a lot of knowledge,
and a lot of freedoms of access to knowledge. AI is changing all of that. And the whatever you want to call them, the controllers or whatever, they no longer can maintain suppression and control of knowledge. Because even with my own book engine, we've dropped the price of knowledge to zero, to zero. That's never happened before. We've made it so that an impoverished person in India, as long as they have access to the internet,
which 85% of households do, even in India, if they have access to the internet, they can create a book on any topic completely free and they can learn anything and they can achieve a university level education in mathematics, engineering, physics, chemistry, economics,
you name it, just using our engine. And we're just one of many players out there who are disruptors, granted. And I understand, you know, I piss off people sometimes because I am a disruptor. That's my mentality. But I'm a good faith disruptor. I'm here to disrupt the world in favor of humanity. And that's why we've built these engines in this new era is revolutionizing everything. So I just say, Look, join me in this.
I mean, it doesn't have to be anything official, but share this video.
You know, tell people about the show, decentralized TV.
And stop being okay with a shitty world.
Does that make sense?
Stop putting up with the status quo.
Change it.
Change it.
We are the revolutionaries.
And I'm talking about in a non-violent way.
I just mean philosophically, technologically, we are the revolutionaries. We are the people we've been waiting for to change the world and make it better and finally deliver the world that we all deserve. We deserve better than what we've been living in. All of us deserve better, whether you're Canadian or American or Palestinian or Israeli for that matter. We all deserve better than where we are right now. And it's not going to come. Abundance isn't going to come from killing each other, bombing each other,
suppressing each other. Abundance is only going to come from empowering each other. That's what I believe. And I believe Salim believes that as well. It's very clear. That's why I'm just honored to have him on. And this kind of conversation is what we need to see a lot more of as we move forward and help create a better world together. So,
look, let go of any cognitive anchors to the past. The world that we need to create is not the one that we've been in. And it's time to get busy. Let's roll up our sleeves. Let's get to work. Download Claude code. You know,
start jamming away. Start building the new world that you want to live in and share it with others. I do that every day. I vibecode every single day. And because that's my passion is to do what I just said. We're going to help make the world a better place together. So, thank you for watching today, and that's what this show is all about. Decentralize.tv. Be sure to check out all the other episodes at the website decentralize.tv. And yeah,
Valentine's Day Sale Bonuses00:04:07
We have a lot more amazing episodes coming up this year with amazing guests.
I mean, really, I can't wait to share it with you.
Thanks for watching today.
I'm Mike Adams of decentralized.tv and Brighteon.com.
care.
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