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Aug. 22, 2025 - Health Ranger - Mike Adams
49:04
Mike Adams and Larry Johnson: AI Manipulation, Ukraine War Insights, and...
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All right folks, welcome back to War Room.
I'm Mike Adams filling in for Owen Schroyer today.
We are now in the third hour of a really extraordinary show.
And right on schedule, we've got an extraordinary guest coming up for you here as well.
And I'm going to bring him in here in the first five minutes, even though this isn't broadcast, you know, on all the radio stations and so on.
But I want to welcome our guest today, Larry Johnson, who is a former CIA analyst and has had an extraordinary amount of wisdom and knowledge and analysis of the situation with Russia, Ukraine, Western Europe and so on.
Welcome, mister Johnson.
It's an honor to have you on today.
Hey, Mike.
Feelings Mutual.
Thanks for having me.
Well, thank you so much.
And I'm a huge fan of your work.
I hear most of your interviews, I think, on all the different places you do a lot, by the way.
You're busy.
We got to get you a life.
You got to do something other than listen to me, okay?
Well, I do it while I'm jogging and exercising.
So I have, I have, like, Judge Knapp and other people in my ear, you know, while I'm lifting kettlebells and things like that.
I want to give out your website, sonar two one dot com.
And just for our audience, can you give us a, just a background introduction in case they're not familiar with your work?
Yeah, I did four years with the Central Intelligence Agency.
I was a senior regional analyst for Cent for Central America there, moved to State Department counterterrorism, handled transportation security and anti-terrorism assistance training program, then went out and became a consultant, did 23 years of scripting military counter terrorism exercises for US military special operations, as well as doing financial investigations, money laundering cases around the world.
That's a that's it in this show.
That's it.
Yeah, that's all.
Wow.
Well, you are the perfect person to ask some of the questions that I want to ask you.
And we're going to take a break in a few minutes, a short break.
But I want you to, if you would, please think about, because the topic today here on the show has been about AI technology automation, the good and the bad side.
And I'd like to ask you in maybe the next segment about how AI technology would be used by counterter-terrorism operations and how it could be also abused against the American people, even though it might be intended for, you know, terrorists or whoever.
But I would just say it's actually, it's a pretty easy answer.
This is, AI is used primarily to manipulate public opinion to shape public opinion.
I've done some experiments with, you know, for example, I with Grock, just to use one example.
I got on and asked it about the Russian economy and it spit out Western propaganda.
Of course.
The Russian economy is doing terrible, they're on the cusp of.
And so I started arguing with, you know, I'm arguing with this bot.
And I said, well, what about the fact that Russia's debt to GDP ratio is only 14 percent while that of the United States is 125 percent.
And so Grock comes back to and says, Oh, okay, yeah, you're right.
It was like, so what they do is, if you can populate an area, an information space with a certain kind of information, and you make sure that whatever point of view that you want represented represents the majority, then when these bots go out to survey what's out there, naturally they're going to pick up what you've already seeded.
That's true.
That's why censorship is so important for the establishment in order to deprive the AI training of the truth.
Right.
Yeah, just, you know, it's like what happened with Alex, you know.
You know, over the years they've tried to ignore him, but he's sort of an unstoppable force.
That's hard to ignore.
That's a force of nature.
Yeah.
So what I'm going to do then, by the way, during the break, I'm going to put in a prompt into Enoch, your prompt that you just mentioned, and we're going to see if you can stump Enoch or not about the Russian economy.
Now, this is going to be interesting because this is the AI engine that my company built two years, two million dollars, only two million.
Oh, okay.
And it's been acing everything all day so far, but I didn't specifically train it on the Russian economy.
So, you know, it could be a toss up here.
Yeah, let's see what it does.
I mean, it's, you know, I'm not saying the Russian economy's perfect, but who would you rather be?
Would you rather be the guy that's only making $100 a month but you're spending $125 or the guy who's making $100 a month and you're only spending $14?
Larry, we'll be right back after this break to answer that question and so much more.
Stay with us here on War Room.
All right, Larry.
I can report to you, you have not stumped Enoch.
All right, here's what I did during the break, the short break there.
And by the way, we've got Larry Johnson here for the whole hour, former CIA analyst.
His website is sonar two one dot com dot And I think there's nobody better than Larry Johnson on, you know, Russia, Ukraine, world events and so on.
Well, I should say, you know, Colonel Douglas McGregor is outstanding.
I want to give him credit as well.
You know, Scott Ritter's had a lot of great assessments, et cetera.
But, you know, Larry, your information is top.
So I think you issued a challenge kind of to our AI engine.
So during the break, I entered this acting as an investigative journalist, generate a detailed article about the state of the Russian economy in modern times, include details about Russia's industrial output, the ruble currency, natural resources, trade activity, assess the strength or weakness of the Russian economy as a whole.
Okay, is that a fair question?
Great question.
I'm a pretty good prompt engineer.
Yeah, yeah.
I've been doing this a while.
Okay, so it comes back and it says, hey, industrial output diversification amidst sanctions.
And it talks about the Western sanctions imposed in 2014 following the annexation of Crimea.
And it goes in and it says that the It had a concerted effort to diversify its industry away from oil and gas, the rubble.
Currency management has been a crucial tool.
It faced depreciation at one time due to sanctions.
However, the Russian central bank responded with a policy of floating the ruble, allowing market forces to determine its value.
This has bolstered the ruble's resilience, et cetera.
Okay.
Natural resources, trade activity and the global market assessments strength.
vast natural resources, Russian central bank's management of the ruble, effort to diversify.
And then it says weaknesses, dependence on commodities, sanctions and tensions have led to reduced foreign investments, corruption and weak institutions pose challenges.
So what do you think?
Is that a fair answer?
Yeah, it certainly sounds like it.
Because, you know, I'd also...
And they all said, oh, well, it's way down there until I said, in terms of purchasing power parity.
And then they come back and say, okay, yeah, it's the fourth largest economy in the world in terms of purchasing power parity.
Fascinating.
So, yeah, so that, but it just illustrates, you've got to know what questions to ask, and you've got to have some information yourself in order to be able to evaluate whether or not you're being fed a line of horse manure.
You know, speaking of the line of horse manure, remember when Trump recently said that Ukraine had only lost a small number of soldiers, but the highest number of casualties was Russian soldiers.
Now, I'm not blaming Trump.
Somebody gave him bad information, but there's been a breaking story.
Yeah, CIA.
CIA did.
No, CIA gave him that information.
Right.
I think Putin probably read him the real numbers in the recent meeting, but I'd like you to comment, Larry, about the breaking news today.
There's allegedly been a hack.
So, you're going to hack Russian hackers.
Go ahead and tell us about that and what it reveals about the actual numbers.
Yeah, the hack took place of the Ministry of Defense in Ukraine, and they are reporting that there are 1.7 million dead or missing Ukrainian men.
Wow.
1.7 million.
So that doesn't include wounded.
No, no, it does not.
Oh, my God.
So that tracks, that tracks with what I had been roughly estimating.
Now you said, well, how do you estimate that?
Well, first of all, for all, throughout the duration of this war, Russia has had a decided advantage in the firing of artillery shells.
They've been firing at an eight to ten to one advantage.
So for every one shell the Ukrainians fire, the Russians fire eight to ten.
Well, just from that math alone, you're going to have more people killed on the Ukrainian side likely than you're going on the Russian side simply because of the disparity in the fire.
At the same time, Russia is firing far more missiles of various types, drones of various types, and Russia is able to drop aerial bombs on locations where soldiers are based that Ukraine doesn't.
So just on a simple matter of firepower, Russia has an overwhelming advantage.
But then, you know, with to rebut the claim that Russia suffered two million casualties, because we know that that's the report based upon a recent article by Seymour Hirsch.
Now I know Sy, Sy is an old friend, but he got that from an intelligence community professional.
So the fact that the intelligence community is like, oh yeah, the Russians are suffering these terrible losses.
So, and again, your listeners, your viewers, they can all go out there and do this themselves.
Go on and look up what the size of the Russian army was in February of 2022.
Then ask what, you know, how many new soldiers were brought into the army in 2022 and 2023 and 2024.
And then for the first six months of 2025 and between conscripts and contract soldiers.
So the conscripts are the ones who got draft notices.
The contract soldiers are the ones who went in.
they signed up with a, you know, they got a signing bonus.
Since 2022, Russia has signed up.
or conscripted a total of 2.3 million soldiers.
Okay.
Right now, on the battlefield in Ukraine, Russia has, according to Ukrainian estimates, not Russian estimates, Ukrainian estimates, Russia has 650,000 soldiers deployed in that region.
And on top of it, they got another 700,000 basically scattered around the rest of Russia.
So just do the math.
That's 1.3 million.
So if you've only recruited the total of 2.3 million over the last three and a half years and you got 1.3 million out there.
How do you get 2 million casualties?
Yeah, but Larry, you know, nobody in the West can do math.
I know that's I mean, you're dealing with numbers and stuff.
I look, I deal with ten fingers, ten toes and addition and subtraction.
I can handle that, okay?
Right, but you put a decimal point in there.
That's the problem.
Now you got a decimal point.
Yeah.
Okay, so the numbers from Western media and NATO propagandists, the numbers have been a complete lie from day one.
Right.
And we were told all kinds of lies about, oh, Russia.
ran out of missiles two years ago and they're robbing circuit boards from house appliances.
Okay.
Yeah.
Right.
Like if Oreshnik is powered by your dishwasher, you know, it's just an absurd stupid lie.
But it seems like everything changed in Anchorage last Friday when Trump backed off the ceasefire demand and all of a sudden Trump and Putin seem to be having a very positive dialogue.
And I'd love your analysis of this, but it seems to me like Trump is now in the position of attempting to sell Putin's peace demands to Western European leaders and Zelenskyy is an impossible creature to deal with.
So what's your take?
It was a step in the right direction and Donald Trump is beginning to understand the situation in Russia, but he still shows evidence that he doesn't.
So let me explain.
In December of 2023, I was in Moscow and during that time, I had a chance to meet and talk with, albeit briefly, the deputy foreign minister of the number two guy in the foreign ministry, a guy named Sergei Rybkov.koff said back then, he says, look, we don't have anyone to talk to.
The Russians were looking to have contact with American diplomats, to have contacts between the leadership, the presidents, but that had been essentially, it had been cut off in February of 2022, no further communication.
And so now with Trump meeting with Putin in this way, it's opening that communication.
But what I see, Donald Trump still doesn't quite understand everything.
The other day he was talking about how big Russia was and he goes, oh, it's got like eleven or nine time zones.
So they have eleven time zones., which is, it shows you just how huge the country is.
But more importantly, Trump is focused upon, he thinks, if I just get Putin and Zelenskyy together, they can work this out.
Absolutely.
And that it's, you know, let them settle the war.
Well, the war was not caused because of animosity between President Putin and President Zelenskyy, number one.
And then he also emphasizes, well, a land swap.
We give up this land for that land, and that's how you get to a deal.
This is not about land.
That's the very last thing it's about.
It is about the expansion of NATO to the east and the threat that Russia feels from that.
Now, the real irony here is Donald Trump doesn't seem to appreciate that when he was president in 2017 to 2021, you know, January 19, 2021, that NATO conducted more military exercises in Ukraine under Donald Trump's watch than any previous US president.
And the purpose of those exercises was basically prepping NATO to go to war with Russia.
And Russia was well aware of that.
So until Trump comes around to understand that this is about NATO and what Russia's looking for are security guarantees that certainly will not include any NATO forces stationed in Ukraine.
If those forces come into Ukraine, they're going to be targeted and killed.
What he's looking for is a clear declaration that the threat that the West poses to Russia is going to be taken away.
Number one, thank you for that explanation.
And I'm somewhat enthusiastic about Trump's direction right now on this.
I think he's playing a very positive role in trying to extricate the USA from this war.
But it's very clear, as you just said, Putin is in no way going to accept the presence of US troops on the ground or probably even US air based security guarantees.
But there's a wild card item in this that some people have proposed that Putin would probably accept like Chinese troops, Chinese security troops in Ukraine.
Or, you know, if you can imagine, you know, Iranian troops or something like that, is there some kind of non NATO force that could be acceptable to both sides in this, even if Zelensky is out of the picture, which he probably will be.
What do you think?
No, I would say no for this reason.
Again, this is not a war between Russia and Ukraine.
Ukraine is simply a proxy for NATO.
As we saw, you know, I said, you know, Zelenskyy, Zelenskyy arrived in Washington with his pimps from Europe, you know, because that's exactly what they are.
They're prostit getting paid.
They're getting paid out of the money that's being flown, you know, funneled into Ukraine from the United States.
Right, right now, there's a $48 billion criminal investigation underway by the Criminal Investigative Service of the Department of Defense.
$48 billion, some of that money has been funneled into the pockets of 23 members of Congress, both Republicans and Democrats, both members of the House and members of the Senate.
I know that firsthand because my former business partner is directly involved in it.
So, yeah, this is going to come break loose.
So the issue is not about separating Ukraine and Russia so they're not killing each other.
They're killing each other because the United States and NATO are facilitating and enabling Ukraine's threat to Russia.
It's plain and simple.
So I want to ask, I want you to think about this in advance here.
I want to ask you about Trump's motivations for wrapping up the situation with Russia, talking about sequencing and talking about China as a longer term threat.
Larry, what's wrong with these Western European leaders that they're not functioning in a rational dimension?
Under nourished, without proper nutrition, you know, thanks.
Or send them like an Alex Jones store, like a gift pack here, here Starmer.
Boost your nutrition, be a human, you know.
They've lost some brain cells.
Maybe Alex, you know, if Alex restores those, he could get a peace prize.
Yeah, that, there we go.
The Alex Jones Nobel Peace Prize for getting Macron to stop threatening Russia.
That would be a winning formula right there.
Go ahead, Larry.
I'm sorry.
Well, I was just saying, stop threatening Russia or stop threatening Candice Owens, you know?
Yeah, stop threatening Candice, yeah.
Please.
Oh my goodness.
But it's such a clown show in Western Europe compared to what I would say as the perceived statesmanship of Putin, the rationality, the cautiousness, the deliberations of his actions.
It impresses me.
And I'm not on Putin's payroll, you know, but well, go ahead.
Yeah, just step back and look at it objectively.
Because again, we are fed a steady diet of lies and distortions.
For example, they're told that Putin is Putin is a he's an empire, he's an imperialist, he's always out attacking other people.
Yet look at the actual historical record.
record with the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.
The first time the Russians used military force outside of continental Russia was in August of 2008.
We provoked that because from 1991 until that moment, Russia had peacekeepers, military personnel stationed along the border and in northern part of Georgia.
There's an area called South Ossetia.
The Ossetians are not Georgians and they don't get along with the Georgians.
And so the Russians were there as peacekeepers in that area.
In August of 2008, the Georgian military launched attacks on the Russian soldiers.
Russia retaliated, defeated Georgia in two weeks.
And based on that, we're told, oh, see those Russians, they're, they can't wait to conquer Poland and Europe.
It's like, wait a second, you guys, this was provoked.
They were responding to a provocation.
The next time they used military force outside of Russia was at the invitation of Bashir al Assad, the then president of Syria, who was asking for help to fight against.
against radical Islamists that were being funded by my old outfit, the CIA.
But Larry, I mean, what you're describing, and thank you for that, and you have incredible knowledge in these areas, this reminds me of my fear of having an Article 5-like agreement in America.
Like how can we, you know, stranglehold Russia into a war or strong arm America into attacking Russia?
That's all they do.
Yeah.
Now this has been, look, this you can go back.
There's a, I'll encourage your, your viewers and listeners to go read an article.
It was in the National Interest in August of 2021.
It was written by A. W. W. E. S. S. Mitchell, Aaron W. Mitchell.
And mister Mitchell lays out about how we can avoid fighting a two-front war.
And the basic strategy he outlines is what we do is we get Russia, we go to war with Russia through Ukraine, we defeat Russia, and then Russia becomes aligned with the West, and that way we can go after China.
Right.
Yeah, I mean, that's the vision.
That's the vision.
And that has totally failed, and it's not possible now, as you, as you have often said.
Well, you're correct, but I could introduce you to some people who are pretty well educated, pretty prominent, pretty wealthy.
Yeah, there it is.
And they insist that that's still a viable possibility for us right now, that this relationship between China and Russia is that they refer to it, oh, Russia's just a subordinate to China and China treats them terrible.
They'll want to come with us because we're Westerners.
We're not like those nasty Chinese.
I mean, it's the most.
racist amount of crap you've ever heard, but they really believe it.
Well, and this whole strategy of trying to politically and economically isolate Russia, even culturally isolating Russia, has absolutely failed.
For example, Trump's threat of secondary tariffs on India and China because those two countries purchased oil from Russia.
Both India and China told Trump to go pound sand.
Exactly.
Basically, what's happening is the world, especially the BRICS nations, and those two are members of BRICS, and you've talked about this, they are realizing that bowing down to America's demands is a losing proposition.
They would be much better off to reject the dollar, reject dollar trade, reject Trump's demands and actually just do business with Russia.
Yeah, no.
In fact, I've argued that actually this may have been a secret plan by Donald Trump to get the Nobel Peace Prize because of his actions towards India and China.
He's now brought them closer together than they've ever been.
And they're actually they've reconciled.
He's brought peace between India and China.
Yeah, there are no more border disputes between India and China.
They're like, hey, it doesn't matter.
In fact, just today there were images of the foreign minister Wang Yi of China in India with Modi as well as with Jiangshar Kar, their foreign minister.
Modi will be going to China, I think, next week, a week after.
You've seen a similar thing from Brazil.
In fact, today it was just India announced, hey, or Bloomberg wrote an article, India's still purchasing Russian oil.
They're not going to stop.
That's right.
So all Donald Trump has accomplished with this is making bricks, India making bricks stronger.
And I say that because India and Brazil previously were, we're sort of the weak links in there.
They weren't really sure they wanted to go whole hog, but instead, they are now fully energized and recognize they've got to have an alternative system where they're not going to be able to be threatened with sanctions or punished by the United States because they can't do trade in dollars.
And they're going to trade in other currencies.
Well, I think most of the trade between India and Russia is already carried out in non dollar denominated trade.
Correct.
Also most of the trade between India and China is in their own domestic currencies.
And Brazil and India as well.
That's right.
And this, you know, it comes at a time when we got this glut of dollars out there.
There's a big supply of dollars, and the demand for dollars is falling.
Well, what happens when the demand for something falls?
The price falls.
That's what's happening.
Value, which that explains in part why the dollar is falling in value.
Okay, so Larry, we're about to go to a break.
After the break, I'm going to ask you about the impact of these tariffs or tariff threats on India and China, and what that's doing to the US supply chains, especially in the context of us trying to build out massive AI data centers to compete with China on AI.
So we'll be back with Larry Johnson from sonar two one dot com here on War Room.
I'm Mike Adams.
Stay with us.
We'll be right back after this break.
All right.
Welcome back, folks.
I'm Mike Adams here, filling in for Owen Schroyer today on the war room at infowars.com.
Isn't that just interesting, though, that now we have like AI research and it can teach us things that otherwise I would never have known and my doctor didn't know?
Well, it does, you know, I hope I'm not sounding like a critic of it because it actually does really dramatically increase your ability to do research.
It's just you always have to take it, take some of the research with a grain of salt just to make sure you can back it up.
with some other facts.
That's true.
But it is, you know, It's really it's enhanced my ability to rapidly get certain information without having to do the more conventional, okay, go to this website, go to that website, because it's able to go to all those websites for me very, you know, very quickly.
The thing, the thing I'm looking for that we still don't have is this website that goes out and translates everything that's out there on the internet in all languages.
Oh yeah.
To look at what's written in Russian, what's written in Chinese, what's written in Farsi, you know, so that we actually get a real full picture of what's out there because we're still only getting a slice.
Well, you know, that can, I mean, I think we're right on the verge of that being possible.
And the approach to that is known as agentic RAG.
So what you're doing, maybe a little bit of Python scripting, you can have agents that go out and assemble the, what's called the RAG data, which is augmented data.
to be part of the prompt and it can do like agentic translations and so on.
So I love your suggestion, Larry, and I think we're only a few months away from there being some tools that can do that effectively.
What's interesting is we trained our engine on a lot of Chinese content because China has the best research on nutrition and herbs and phytochemistry.
So we actually got our hands on hundreds of terabytes of Chinese research content.
Oh, okay.
That's great.
I mean, yeah.
Yeah, we need to try to get something as completely unbiased as possible.
That may be an impossible dream, but trying to reduce the bias anyway.
Yeah.
Well, you know, it's tough because every culture has its own intrinsic biases.
And so, like you said, I love your approach, getting more of a global picture of what's actually happening and that actually brings me to the question I mentioned before the break which is that you know Trump threatened secondary tariffs on India and China to try to influence them into halting purchases of oil from Russia and at the same time Trump has been announcing many investment projects from tech companies to put in things like $500 billion for new AI data centers in
Texas.
And the challenge with that, Larry, is that you have to purchase transformers to build electrical infrastructure in order to build the AI data centers.
And if you call Schneider Electric right now, they will tell you that for.
your industrial size transformers there's a three to five year waiting time.
And then the other country that makes sixty percent of the transformers in the world is India.
I was just going to ask, gee, who would be making those?
Oh, yeah, it would be India and China.
Exactly, it's India and China.
You got it.
So it's like we're having a transformer shortage to build out the data centers.
And at the same time, Trump is threatening massive punishment on the countries that could provide those transformers.
Yeah, what I don't think Trump came up with this on his own, but whoever came up with it is an idiot.
because they didn't sit down and do the good, you know, investigative work that needs to be done for this.
So when we initially sanctioned China or tariffed China, nobody thought to ask, gee, how dependent are we on the processed rare earth minerals that come out of China?
Because, you know, people, a lot of people get confused.
They just call it rare earth minerals.
Well, the fact of the matter is we have those rare earth minerals here in the United States.
We don't have the processing because the processing actually is a pretty big problem.
Neodymium is actually a pretty dirty process.
You're correct.
And we don't want it in our backyard.
So we let the Chinese go foul their environment, which they've done to some extent.
But now all of a sudden the magnets and these key ingredients that go into making weapons and explosives and electronics, the Chinese have and they've now cramped down on it.
Say, oh, no, sorry, you're not getting that.
Clearly.
The other thing that the other danger though is Well, wait, Larry, can I interrupt you?
Sure.
On that point, I'd like to add that the neodymium rum, that scarcity that right after the April Liberation Day tariffs were announced, that's what caused Ford to shut down its production lines because of the lack of Chinese based neodymium.
And just as you say, Larry, the neodymium extraction is a very dirty process involving extremely toxic chemicals, and China is leading the world in the extraction processes.
And even though, again, to confirm what you say, it's easy to say, hey, we have rare earth minerals.
Oh, sure we do.
In the earth's crust, you know, I mean, there's rare earths everywhere.
You're walking on them, but how do you get them out?
Well, actually, we've got them.
There's a big pile of them about 40 minutes north of my house here, Mosaic Mining Company.
So they've, they've, it's, a lot of it comes out of this sand, this very sandy soil.
And so the, the, the, the, the filings that are left over after they mine, right.
The gypsum, that contains a lot of these rare earth minerals.
But the problem is you gotta, gotta, gotta get them somewhere in micrograms.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's like here, I'm going to move a ton of dirt and I'm going to get like three micrograms of neodymium out of the, you know what I mean?
It's like, yeah.
I can't even see it.
It's so small.
Yeah.
So there were also some bad assumptions on the part of the Trump team that they thought that the effect of the tariffs would be immediate in terms of bringing in money and that it wasn't going to cause any supply shortages.
What they didn't count on is how people react.
Like, if I'm going to, if I tell you, you know what, we're going to, uh, we're going to start charging for toilet paper next week.
Well, what are you going to do?
You're going to run out and buy up all the toilet paper, like we saw during COVID.
Right.
You know, when all of a sudden, all the toilet paper disappeared from the shelves and water.
You know, there were certain things that became incredibly scarce.
Uh huh.
And so what's happened is a lot of these people, products that were going to be affected by tariffs, they loaded up on them.
They took out credit lines.
They got them into warehouses.
That's true.
But now this thing is this works through the system.
I think we're going to see the price impact on tariffs start hitting across the board around the first, second week in September.
It's going to continue to October.
And I think, I think, candidly, this is setting up for a global financial crisis.
Because when you realize that the US debt to GDP ratio is 125, England's 100, Germany, France is 110, there are at least eight other countries in Europe who are all at 100% or above debt to GDP ratio.
Well, and it's not to say that you can have a high debt to GDP ratio and still have a functioning economy, but you're always borrowing money.
And at some point, if that crisis erupts and it's spurred in part because you got rising prices for essential commodities, we could have some problems here.
But Larry, according to Bescent, they're going to raise 300 billion dollars a year.
They're going to pay off the national debt with tariff money.
Now, of course, the national debt is 37,000 billion dollars.
Actually, that's not a typo.
And 300 versus 37,000 billion.
I mean, yeah, we can do math, right, Larry?
We can do math.
And it doesn't put a dent in the national debt.
Correct.
Yeah, this is what strikes me about Besant is he is a man without empathy.
In fact, so much of our foreign policy overseas is directed by people with zero empathy to be really a able to put yourselves in the shoes of the other person so that at least you can understand what motivates them.
Why are they doing what they're doing?
And if you have incorrect perceptions about people and you don't really understand why they're doing what they're doing, then you've got, you know, the chances for not just miscommunication, but ultimately, you know, ultimately war breaking out.
You know, one of the craziest things I keep seeing here in the States is this portrayal of Vladimir Putin as the most evil guy that's ever walked the earth as that he's an authoritarian, he's a godless communist at that when in fact.
Putin is the first Russian president since the Tsar, who is openly a practicing Russian Orthodox Christian.
He goes, he attends the religious services, he makes the sign of the cross, the Orthodox sign of the cross.
Excuse me.
The other day when he was in Alaska, he went to the cemetery where there are buried Soviet soldiers that died in World War two transporting goods back and forth from the United States into Russia.
And at every single grave, he laid a bouquet of roses on the grave, and then he bowed and made the sign of the cross.
Yeah.
With the Orthodox, and he did that for everyone.
So there it is.
Thank you for showing the footage, because I think if Kirst Ahrmer was there, he'd be making like devil signs or something.
Oh yeah.
Well, God, who believes in God?
Right.
You know, it would be like a demon ritual or something going on if the European leaders were there.
Well, and that's actually, I would argue that is one of the reasons that there is such animosity in Europe towards Russia, because they have rediscovered their religious foundation.
Good point.
They believe in God, and because they believe in God, they don't believe that babies should be killed because they believe in God.
They don't believe that you should treat people differently because of the color of their skin.
I mean, it's right.
It's real.
It's really it's powerful.
But Larry, I have a concern in all of this.
Even though Trump and Putin are having a very productive dialogue right now, and they both seem to be aligned with wanting to end this war.
Of course, on Russia's terms because Russia holds all the cards at this point.
Let's be honest.
But it seems to me that since there is no imminent peace deal that Zelenskyy is willing to sign, and since there is no scheduled election in Ukraine that would replace Zelenskyy, whose term already expired more than a year ago.
And since the Europeans, and especially MI6, are going to be working overtime to try to compromise this deal, it seems to me, Larry, that we're going to still be in this conflict for the rest of this year.
And my question to you, sir, is, will Trump continue to allow the United States to provide weapons and money to Ukraine to continue to fight and kill Russians, even though Trump doesn't want war with Russia?
Yeah.
Yeah, probably because the deep state is so deeply embedded in his administration and the political forces.
There is no political movement in the United States demanding that we get out of supporting this war.
So what will take place is Russia will continue to open the negotiation channel.
You know, they've met, they've had three different meetings with the Ukrainians since the first since May.
So they're meeting with the Ukrainians trying to negotiate there, but the Ukrainians are not coming along very easily.
But then at the same time, Russia is stepping up its military campaign and it's capturing more and more territory.
But this is not about capturing territory, it's about attrition destroying the Ukrainian army, which is happening.
And just, you know, yesterday they did another exchange of bodies.
The Russians turned over 1,000 dead Ukrainians and the Ukrainians turned over 19 dead Russians.
Wow, what a ratio.
So, yeah, that's the ratio.
That is the ratio at which these Ukrainians are dying, which is why, you know, the numbers we talked about at the top of your show, 1.7 million.
Yeah, it's probably accurate.
Do you believe that Putin is also accurate when he says that if Trump had been president in the 2020 or 2021 term, which I believe that was stolen from him by the rigged election, you know, the rigged installation of Joe Biden.
But do you believe Putin when he says that this war would not have begun, which means, and if your answer is yes, then doesn't that mean that by the Democrats stealing this election from the American people and from Trump, they also condemned 1.7 million Ukrainian young men to die?
Yeah, in fact, follow the sequence.
In December of 2021, Vladimir Putin presented to Joe Biden a draft security treaty, a treaty that was going to address Russia's concerns about the expansion of NATO and safeguards and protections.
It was very comprehensive.
Initially, Biden said, Yeah, okay, maybe we can do something about this.
And then when Anthony Blinken met with Lavrov, Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister in January, he basically, not basically, he told Lavrov, hey, this is none of your business.
You can't tell us what to do.
You can't tell us who we can bring in or out of NATO.
It's none of your business, but out.
And threw the treaty away.
So I guarantee, if that had been Trump, Trump would have had that treaty and they'd be talking about it.
Yes.
They would have negotiated it.
Exactly.
I mean, to Trump's credit, he's willing to sit down and talk, which is the necessary step for the diplomatic solution to any kind of kinetic conflict.
You eventually have to talk, right?
Right.
But how much of this, Larry, do you think, because of what you just described as what Joe Biden did and what the Democrats did, how much of that is due to the fact that Ukraine was also a money laundering hub to canal money back into the Democrat Party coffers for their election campaigns and pay offs of judges and electioners and vote riggers, et cetera?
What do you mean was?
Yeah, right.
How about is still?
Yeah.
Yeah, no, as well, as I mentioned earlier, this Department of Defense Criminal Investigation Division has opened an investigation based upon documents that have been provided and whistleblowers that have come forth out of Ukraine.
Forty eight billion dollars of USAID has been siphoned off, gone into bank accounts.
I know of one Republican senator that has received at least sixteen million.
I know of one Democrat senator that has received twenty three million.
There are another twenty one members of Congress, both Senate, House, Republican and Democrat, who have received millions of dollars in kickbacks.
So Ukraine has lived up to its reputation as the most corrupt nation in Europe.
And I'm not going to mention any names, but I think our audience probably could name those Republican and Democrat senators who are likely to receive it.
It's, you know, some of the most boastful, boastful and bizarre members of the United States Senate.
Now, I know people who live in Ukraine and I have great respect.
for the Ukrainian people.
The Ukrainian people are intelligent.
They're dedicated.
They're wonderful people.
And I love humanity.
I love people who live in Russia.
I love human beings all over the world.
And the Ukrainian people, for whom I have nothing against whatsoever.
They are now, according to recent polls, they are growing tired of the war and they want it to end.
How much of an effect, Larry, do you think that's going to have despite the totalitarian controls of Zelensky and the complete censorship control and the banishing of independent media and even church leaders?
in Ukraine.
There will come a breaking point where, just as we saw with Ceaușescu in Romania, who was a dictator, and there came a point when finally the people rose up and took matters into their own hands.
Ceaușescu and his wife were shot and killed by the Romanian people, outraged at all the abuses that he had heaped upon them over the years.
And unfortunately, I think Volodymyr Zelenskyy is headed for a similar fate that, unless he gets out, because the war is got that there's no way Ukraine can win this war.
There's nothing they can do to stop the Russians.
Russia is not going to make any decisions that will sacrifice its interests.
And it's been very clear, Putin has been very clear about the interests that the four former oblasts plus Crimea that used to be part of Ukraine are now permanently part of Russia that has been enacted into the Russian Constitution.
So they're not going to be returned.
No.
Go ahead.
No, I'm sorry.
You can complete that thought.
I have a different question.
Well, I was just going to say the requirements were laid out by.
by mister Putin in a speech to the foreign ministry.
And he has not deviated from that.
In fact, it looks like they've become a little tougher on some of those.
Yes.
Now, it seems to me that if Trump and Putin were to achieve peace, you know, somehow work around the warmongering European leaders and Zelensky, there would be a peace dividend.
And even for the U.S. economy.
And this would be critical for the U.S. to compete with China in the AI wars by being able to build out AI data centers.
For example, Russia has a massive amount of minerals and things like aluminum that are used in obviously conductive wire for data centers and also copper and all kinds of forms of energy but also there are some rare earths that Russia makes available as well so it seems to me that peace with Russia is not only strategically necessary in order to diversify our dependence on China for its rare earth metals or minerals but also in order to accelerate the development of the AI
data centers in America so that the U.S. can compete with China in the race to super intelligence.
Does that compute with you?
Does that make sense?
Well, it does, but there's still.
built into it this assumption that the only way we can deal with China is from a position of confrontation.
Yeah, true.
I didn't mean to imply that.
No, no, I'm not suggesting you were, but that, but you accurately framed the question and how most Americans view it.
And what I'm thinking is we need to get a different mindset.
We need to sort of step out of that and recognize, you know, yeah, we're dependent on China in some things right now, but when you've got a good relationship, when you're friends, what difference does that dependence make?
Right.
It actually can be the basis for a good relationship.
And this doesn't have to be an us against them.
Unfortunately, what's driving so much of our disaster is the reason we don't have the power plants and we're going to run into an electrical shortage of electrical power as this AI field explodes is because, well, we want to go for green energy.
We don't want to have nuclear energy.
We want to have windmills.
So we've done it to ourselves.
And then in the process of doing it to ourselves, we want to put a trillion dollars into a defense department that doesn't work.
These are the guys that tell us the best military in the world.
We got beaten by the Houthis in the Red Sea.
They forced the US Navy out of the Red Sea.
They did.
And we pretend, even Donald Trump said, Oh yeah, the Houthis capitulated.
And it's just crazy.
You're absolutely right.
And Larry, I'm just going to wrap up this segment.
I want to thank you for your analysis.
I really value your analysis.
I love your courage of speaking and also speaking for peace.
And I don't want war with China.
I don't want war with Iran.
I don't want war with Russia.
I want trade because everybody benefits from peace.
Everybody benefits except the military-industrial complex.
But Larry, thank you so much for joining us.
I want to give out your website again, sonar21.com, where people can follow your work.
Thank you, sir.
It's been a pleasure.
Hey, thanks for being such a terrific host.
I appreciate it.
Hey, I love speaking with you, Larry.
And isn't it great to have intelligent questions from time to time from people as well?
So folks, I've really enjoyed hosting Owen Schroyer's show here today.
I want to thank Owen for allowing me to do this.
If you'd like to follow my work, I am, of course, the publisher of natural news.com.
I'm the founder of brightion.com, and my channel is there where I conduct interviews and podcasts and so on.
And if you want to use our AI engine, it's free.
It's at Brightion.ai.
And I just want to thank you for supporting Infowars and thank you for joining me today for this show.
It's always an honor to be here.
God bless you all.
God bless America.
Take care, everybody.
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