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July 24, 2025 - Health Ranger - Mike Adams
58:16
MAD MAX collapse scenario now closer than ever: Bill Holter interviewed by Mike Adams
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Welcome everybody to today's interview here in studio joining me a man who really needs no introduction, but he's got a new nickname, which is Mr. Gold.
But you know him as Bill Holter.
He joins me in the studio today.
Welcome Bill.
Thanks for having me.
Hey, Mr. Gold, where did that nickname come from?
Well, I worked for years with Jim, and about a year before, year, year and a half before he died, he bestowed it upon me.
Wow.
Jim was a great guy.
Yeah, Jim was an interesting guy.
Yeah, yeah.
You knew him.
You knew him very well.
Oh, yeah.
Now your website is billholter.com.
Right.
And I see you doing a lot of interviews, very, very outspoken.
And I agree with everything that you've said that I've seen.
That's scary.
I know, isn't it?
I'm like, Bill says it the way that I want to say it, but I don't dare say it exactly that way.
Well, see, I don't care because I don't have a boss.
That's true, yeah.
And my father has long passed away, so you can't tell my boss and you can't tell my daddy.
So I just tell it like I see it.
Well, let's start out with that then.
How screwed exactly are we in America with the dollar situation?
I mean, how is it even still there?
Well, it's still there because of the U.S. military.
But when you ask how screwed, the true answer is mathematically screwed.
The dollar, obviously, a fiat currency, which makes the treasury bonds fiat by nature.
And the U.S. Treasuries, they support everything.
They are the foundation for the world's financial system.
Go back 100 years ago or even less, 80 years ago, or you could even say before 1971, that gold was the foundation to the world's financial system.
And by mixing coming off the gold standard, so now there's no more connection between the dollar and gold or gold and U.S. treasuries, the foundation is quicksand.
And these buildings, if you want to call them buildings, they just keep building taller and taller and taller, and it's on a sand foundation.
And I guess to explain the math part, the debt can never be repaid in current terms.
That's the bottom line.
Let's just jump right into the question of the theory that the federal government could revalue gold at some number, $15,000, $20,000, $25,000, and then use that to try to pay down a few trillion dollars in debt, at least on the balance sheets.
But that would give the Federal Reserve actually a claim of ownership of the gold of the country.
So it's kind of a gold heist by the international bankers, isn't it?
It may already have been a gold heist because we've not had an audit since 1956.
It's claimed we have, what, 260 million ounces of gold or something like that?
Do you think we really have that?
No way.
No way.
I mean, you go back to 1996 when it was clear.
And I used to talk to, I don't know if you remember Harry Bingham.
He was the money manager for international investors.
The very first guy to manage a billion dollars on planet Earth.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, it was the gold international investors fund.
And we would talk two, three times a week back in the early, mid-90s.
And then we started to see when obvious gold bullish news would hit, they'd knock gold down $6, which sounds like nothing, but that was 2% at the time.
And it goes back to Robert Rubin's strong dollar policy.
And the only thing we could figure, and this was before GATA, the only thing we could figure was that the leases that were being created by producers, and we also know that now that there were leases being created by central banks that held gold, it was that gold that was used to tamp the price down.
Then Gata came along and they've got just pages and pages and pages of evidence that what's the word behind behind the scenes, gold has been moved to tamp the price down.
But it's been rehypothecated multiple times probably in the process.
Well, what used to be rehypothecated has now been rehypothecated again and again and again.
Hyper-hypothecated.
Yeah, to the point where 300 paper ounces are backed by one real ounce.
So if you're talking about a game of musical chairs, when the day comes that investors demand delivery, good luck.
Right.
But just a follow-up question on that, Bill.
Do you think that Besent and Luttnick and Trump are sort of desperate enough to try something like a gold revaluation domestically?
I mean, is that in the cards?
I think that probably is in the cards.
I think they also know that we don't have the gold that we've said we have since 1971.
And it kind of goes back to where our thought process was that there would be at least two resets, the first one man-made and the second one, Mother Nature.
The first one man-made will fail because it's still going to be a fiat currency.
And that's, I think, going to be an effort to try to save dollar hegemony, to save the dollar as king.
The world's not going to go for it.
I mean, it's pretty clear.
You've got over 100 nations now.
Over half the world wants to be a part of BRICS, which means they want to be not a part of the U.S. dollar.
Right.
I mean, can you blame them Because of all the weaponization of the tariffs and everything.
Right.
I mean, we put our boot on their throat financially continually.
And I think that will lead to a Mother Nature reset or a rebellion worldwide, if you will.
When I say rebellion, rebelling against that reset to get a real reset.
Meaning, the first reset could be $10,000, $15,000, $25,000, $50,000 gold.
Who knows?
The math is if the gold that we supposedly have were to go to back the on-books, not the off-books, not all the debt, but just the on-books debt, the $37 trillion, you'd have to have a number of $135,000 plus per ounce.
So if we try to foist $25,000 or $50,000 on the world, I don't think that's going to do it.
He who owns the gold makes the rules, and the Chinese own the gold.
See, I'm glad you mentioned that because if this revaluation effort takes place, I mean, the thought occurred to me the other day, wouldn't that just be making China incredibly wealthy and all the other central banks and some of those banks, as you know, right, and Russia.
And some of the banks are buying gold and silver directly from the mines, as you know.
So we don't even, that's not on the COMAX.
We don't know those numbers.
But China, then China could, I mean, they would be able to command our currency with their gold.
That's correct.
And that's the second reset?
Yeah.
So we're, you know, damned if we do, damned if we don't.
Well, and the scary thing is China is not aligned with the United States.
So we'll put hurt on the United States.
I mean, their action is not going to be to try to smooth the wound.
No.
They'll be picking the scab if it's even scabbed up.
Well, and China has threatened, sorry, Trump has threatened China, as he says, with another 100% tariff because China purchases energy from Russia.
So the secondary tariffs, which is also going to threaten India, a major U.S. trading partner and ally, it's going to threaten the EU, which is already hurting for energy because of Nordstream.
It's going to threaten Turkey.
It's going to threaten Brazil.
I mean, was it like 40-something days away then Trump says is going to hit the secondary tariffs?
Well, understand this.
This is something that I had talked about a dozen years ago.
China was starting to, and now they've built up a huge debt bubble.
China has a debt problem, a real estate problem.
But China built things.
They built cities.
They built airports.
They built railways.
They built infrastructure.
Shipping ports all over the world.
They built infrastructure with that debt.
What did we do?
We basically have eaten off of it.
And our infrastructure is crumbling.
So if you get a debt collapse now, China goes, oh, well, okay, so it's gone.
But they still have the infrastructure stuff.
And we say, oh, okay, it's gone.
We don't eat anymore.
I mean, it's just, it's the debt problem is going to, in my opinion, will hurt the U.S. far worse than anywhere else in the world.
Is there any solution that the Trump administration can manage?
I mean, we've got to talk about stable coins, the Genius Act, but the stable coins are backed by Treasury debt.
Right.
So they're not stable.
They're unstable coins.
Right.
It's still fiat.
It's still fiat.
Yes.
That's by nothing other than the full faith and credit of an insolvent treasury.
Who's dumb enough to buy stable coins and hold them when they can't go up ever?
They're only going to go down because they're tied to the dollar.
Right.
I don't have an answer for that.
But why are they thinking that stable coins is going to allow the treasury to sell trillions of dollars of debt to the stable coin market?
There's not going to be trillions of dollars of stable coins.
Well, let's assume that there is.
Okay.
It's still nothing.
It's just more of nothing.
It's just a tokenization of debt.
Right.
It's a perfect accounting system.
That's my thing with Bitcoin, with cryptocurrencies.
What are they?
My belief is when all said and done, we're going to find out that Bitcoin and all the other cryptos are digital air.
And the blockchain is a perfect, perfect accounting system of digital air.
Now, the perfect accounting system, the ledger, there you go, central bank digital currency.
So they can track everything you do.
And we get into that world.
And I assure you, you and I will not be doing interviews like this.
We'll be, you know, if, well, maybe not you because you produce food.
But the people that get shut off, they're going to be digging in dumpsters looking for food because all their money's gone.
They can shut people off.
Look what happened in Canada during the COVID with the truck.
The trucker convoy, yeah.
Just look at that.
And that they had to manually go to this bank.
Okay, shut these people off.
That's right.
Go to another bank, shut these people off.
Shut these people off.
Whereas with a central bank digital currency, just one switch and it's done.
Well, that's the thing about the Genius Act is that the stable coins that are going to be created by, let's say, JPMorgan have to be compliant with anti-money laundering, AML, and KYC, know your customer.
Right.
Which means that the government's just going to hand JPMorgan a list of who to shut down.
Right.
Exactly.
Of course they are.
Exactly.
And of course we're going to be on that list.
And that's why you absolutely have to have metal outside of the system.
Yes.
And this is a good time to mention, you help people get metal.
Yes.
So billholter.com, what are you offering there that people can take advantage of with you?
I can help you with buying metal, Gold, silver, any type of precious metal, selling it, storing it, transporting it, anything to do with gold or silver, platinum, palladium, I can help.
And let me just mention that we've got a pretty big move recently in platinum.
Oh, yeah.
But just understand that platinum and palladium are industrial metals.
They're not precious metals.
They're quasi-precious metals.
Whereas gold is 99% precious metal.
It's money.
Silver is half-precious metal, half industrial metal.
But with silver, there's so many uses for it now.
The demand has just exploded.
And the data centers that are going to be built use loads of silver.
Right.
It can't be built without silver.
Yeah, not even.
And just for our audience to know, I always invite you on because I value your knowledge and your experience.
We don't have a financial relationship.
Not at all.
This is not a paid promotion at all.
But as a courtesy, I always plug my guests and what you do.
So let me ask you a follow-up question then.
Do you handle, I guess you handle like all the major world mints.
If someone wants South African or Canadian or whatever, gold or silver, all that kind of stuff, right?
Bars and coins, both?
Yeah, and as an American, and we've said this for many years now, as an American, you want U.S. Mint lineage coin.
You want Eagles.
You want pre-1933 gold.
You want junk silver.
You want something that came from the U.S. Mint because, I mean, Trump could write an executive order tomorrow morning that says you can't hold gold or silver buoyan, meaning bars, maple leafs, Krugerans, you know, foreign coin.
But if it was U.S. Mint lineage, how can the Mint sell you an eagle today and then next week come back and say, but you have to sell it back?
There'd be lawsuits for years.
Yeah, for sure.
But the government did that before.
But gold was in circulation.
They took it out of circulation.
Oh, they took it out of circulation.
Gold's not in circulation.
It gets sold from the mint to private investors.
And when the private investor puts his money up, there has to be some type of thought process behind that that they can't come back and tell me, I have to sell it back to them.
Right.
At a discount.
Right.
Well, for a piece of paper.
Because that's what they'll do is they'll give you script.
Yeah.
No, I'm never selling my gold to the government.
Come and take it.
At any price.
Yeah.
This is Texas.
Come and take it.
Exactly.
So, okay.
I've believed for a number of years now, and of course I've been influenced by your work as well, that as all of this unfolds, there will be no middle class remaining.
There are really only going to be the wealthy, who are people who stack precious metals.
And then there's going to be the impoverished, which is people who just held dollars.
Now, as far as crypto, I don't know what's going to happen with crypto either.
And my concern is that Tether is a stablecoin backed by the dollar debt, and Tether is being used to buy Bitcoin.
So the Bitcoin price is pumped up by Tether that has not subjected itself to any legitimate audit.
And so if the U.S. Treasury debt collapses, does Tether collapse?
And if Tether collapses, what happens to the Bitcoin price?
See, that's my, you know, it's like, well, that's not my first rodeo.
When I say a Bitcoin, what is it?
That's what I'm getting at.
Yeah.
Right.
What is it actually?
What is underneath it?
What is its value?
Yeah, it's only in its utility.
That you can send it, that, you know, it's fast, it's borderless, it's divisible, those kinds of things.
But underneath that, there isn't anything.
Well, and if you think back over the years, the story has changed so many times.
Oh, yeah.
Now it's digital gold.
Right.
Now it's digital gold.
I remember when it was going to be digital cash.
Well, at first.
It couldn't be tracked.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was anonymous.
Right.
You know, you get to do this, you get to do that, and it's anonymous.
Nobody knows you're doing it.
Right.
There's a ledger.
Yeah, it's all transparent.
And every time they, every theme that they came up with got busted and then on to another one.
True.
But when they say it's digital gold, I mean, look, I'm not anti-crypto for its utility.
Right.
But I've always had an issue with them saying it's digital gold because the thing that makes gold gold is that it's physical and real and it can't be altered except in exploding stars.
Yeah, and it represents labor, capital, and equipment already used to make that coin, to make that bar or whatever.
Right.
It's proof.
And you don't need a password to access your gold.
No.
And gold has thousands of years of recognition in every culture on earth, even cultures that don't know anything about modern money.
They still love gold.
Why?
It's beautiful.
There's something about it.
Even in ancient cultures.
It's God's money.
God's money.
And look at cultures like in Thailand or Japan or many Middle Eastern nations or South America.
They wear their family wealth or India.
That's the big one.
Exactly.
They accumulate gold as the family wealth.
Right.
And they'll wear it sometimes.
And the only way to lose it is to have it stolen.
Right.
Okay.
So I'm wondering, are you seeing, when you have conversations with your potential customers, are you seeing the same people buying more?
Or are you seeing new people that are suddenly realizing the things we're talking about?
I'm going to say until November, December of last year, it was existing people calling me to buy more.
It was new people to buy.
I can tell you from just before Christmas time until now, I have seen more sellbacks in that seven or eight months than I did in the previous 15 years combined.
Wait, sell backs?
Sellback.
Clients sell.
People unloading their metal.
There's no money on the streets.
People need money.
Oh.
That is, without a doubt, that is the theme right now.
Really?
Is that North America is a seller, not a buyer, for retail.
Wow.
But even then, the price keeps climbing.
Because you've got institutions and you've got central banks and you've got big hedge fund money buying tons at a time.
And you're talking $100 million trade.
I think if I sold gold right now, I would really regret that for my life.
Where would you put the money?
I know.
What would you do with it?
There is no other place to put it that has the characteristics, the safety of gold.
But unfortunately, as I mentioned, you've got mom and pop are sellers because we're running out of money.
I mean, there's little money on the streets.
So sometimes people call you and they want to sell a bunch of members.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
Wow.
I mean, in a normal year prior to this year, I might get 10 sellbacks a year, something like that.
And I'll bet you so far this year, I've already had 100 sales.
Wow.
And do they tell you why they need the money?
Yeah, a lot of them have told me I need to raise cash.
Some people have sold and are looking to buy property, which I don't think is advisable.
Because when all is said and done, everything, the stock market, real estate, you name it, is going to deflate versus one ounce of gold.
Yeah.
All right.
Now, so the big action in metals over the last few months has been really silver percentage-wise.
Right.
Silver was lagging behind gold for a long time here.
And in fact, a lot of people got really bored with silver.
Right.
They were like impatient.
Oh, yeah.
I don't watch the market every day, so I don't care.
I'm just like, just stack it at any price.
It's always going to be worth it.
That's been my philosophy.
Never regretted that.
I've never looked back and said I overpaid, actually.
Never.
Just buy a little bit every couple of months.
But now silver is at 39 spot.
It's over 39 spot.
According to the people that I've heard on this, including you, that's a major breakout.
This is not a little thing.
What does this mean?
And also, isn't the physical supply of silver domestically just about wiped out?
Not just domestically, but worldwide.
We can get into that.
Yeah, silver two or three years ago traded up to 30 bucks and then chopped in the mid-low 20s for six months to a year.
It broke out over 30, broke to 35, then it chopped, traded between 28 and 34-ish.
Now we've broken over 35.
There's really, from here, there's really little resistance to 50 bucks.
So that's where the big battle's going to be fought.
Really, at 50?
At $50.
And that battle is going to be lost.
Silver is going to go through $50.
And the reason being, if you look at, as I mentioned, the world is in a structural deficit.
Produces about 850 million ounces per year.
Then you've got whatever scrap recycling on top of that.
But the world is using 1.2, 1.3 billion ounces per year.
So you're talking 400, 500 million ounce deficit per year, and this is now the fifth year.
And where is that deficit coming from?
Well, it's been coming from originally years and years ago, it came from the Manhattan Project.
But I mean, when there's that much demand, where are people finding the excess silver?
You're seeing silver being bled out of ETFs.
Remember, ETFs, just look at the prospectus.
They don't have to have an ounce of silver for every share.
That's right.
They can have contracts.
They don't even have to hold one physical ounce by prospectus.
So what they've done is they've replaced physical metal with contracts, which according to accountants are perfectly fine.
Now, the problem is when you get a delivery cycle, I mean, this past month on Comex was over 50 million ounces delivered.
If they did that every month, that's 600 million ounces.
That takes up almost all.
Wait, wait, in one month it was 50 million ounces delivered?
I've never heard of that high of a delivery rate.
That's the second highest delivery month, I think, ever.
Wow.
But if you look at lease rates, and lease rates are really important because everything's rehypothecated.
Right.
This is the interest that people pay to lease it, to borrow it, to meet their physical obligations.
Right.
The lease rate on silver now is over 7%.
Wow.
And it should be 1%.
Yeah.
The margin rate on SLV is over 12%, and there's no shares.
As of two days ago, there was no shares available to borrow.
So that tells me that somebody's panicking to get the silver that they need to meet their obligations.
Exactly.
I mean, look at it.
If you're a, let's say you're a solar panel company.
How do you make solar panels without silver?
Right.
You're out of business.
Or cruise missiles.
A monster box in every tip.
Yeah, right.
Or data centers.
Right.
Or medical electronics or anything.
The data centers, because of the build out now, that's putting additional pressure.
It's making the failure to deliver.
Remember, we've talked about that before.
Failure to deliver will be what sets the entire paper world on fire.
Because it proves fraud.
Yeah, clearly.
It proves they are way over-leveraged.
And this, you know, it's a game of musical chairs here, right?
And there's not enough chairs.
But I don't know about you, Bill, but even if, you know, I've been stacking silver for 30 years, right?
The government came to me and said, right now, I'll give you $100 an ounce for every ounce of silver.
I'd say no.
Have a nice day.
Yeah, exactly.
Are you kidding me?
Yeah, and get off my property.
Yeah, I mean, I'm not, no.
Whatever price they say, it makes me want to keep it more.
Right, exactly.
It's like, I don't want your dollars.
I'm probably not the only one with that attitude.
The only way you could do that is if you knew you had a source where you could take that $100 and rebuy it tomorrow morning.
There's nothing else that I need more than metals.
I mean, you see the construction here.
We put a bunch of money into concrete and buildings.
So I did spend like three-quarters of a million dollars on concrete and foundations and buildings and stuff.
Right, right.
Okay, I get that.
That's investing in your own business.
Right.
Aside from that, what am I going to do with dollars?
Right.
Where are you going to save?
If you want to save money, where are you going to save it?
You're going to put it into a bank that the bank can fail.
FDIC is not going to pay.
No way.
And it's in dollars.
I'm trying to get it out of the bank.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So paint for us, if you would, the picture of when this silver, I don't know what you want to call it, the failure to deliver time bomb, whatever you want to call it.
When this time bomb detonates, what happens next?
Okay.
My thought has always been, and when I say always, probably for the last 10, 15 years, my thought has been that silver would be the one to blow up before gold.
And the reason being, central banks don't have silver.
Central banks do have gold.
So they could ship gold and cover it and meet the delivery.
And then if there's a slack period, they could get their gold back later on the sly.
That can't be done with silver.
The other thing is, silver is such a small market.
If you take all the production, 850 million ounces, you're looking at what?
$30 billion, roughly.
Total.
That's what the world produces in silver, roughly $30 billion a year.
Even now, I mean, a year, two years ago, the number was $25 billion.
I didn't realize it was that small.
It's nothing.
It's teeny tiny.
I mean, theoretically, you could have a Warren Buffett or some billionaire corner of the market again, like the Hunt Brothers and write a check to do it.
That's how small silver is.
Now, when silver does fail to deliver, would you not think that gold will also immediately explode?
Probably would.
I mean, you might have three seconds before somebody goes, oh, I got to buy gold.
Right.
Right.
So silver, I've always said, is the blasting cap.
But failure to deliver, what would failure to deliver even look like?
Because in London, they would just make excuses.
Our forklifts are too slow, like they did with gold.
It's going to be eight weeks on delivery.
What does that failure look like?
They will be so overwhelmed that any excuse will be laughable.
Because silver will be moving $5, $10, $25 per day under that scenario.
Wow.
Man, think about the human being.
Humans want, if they're told they can't have something, they want it even more.
Yeah, true.
So you'll have a stampede into silver, and seeing that fail to deliver, then you're going to have a stampede into gold.
Contract holders saying, hey, wait a minute, it happened in silver.
I want my gold.
And when there's not enough silver, there's not enough gold to deliver for all these contracts outstanding, you have failure of the system.
Jim Sinclair used to say all the time, what is the value of a contract that cannot perform?
The answer is zero.
Zero.
Right.
And that's.
Third party risk right there.
He theorized, he said, I could absolutely see gold offered at $10 per ounce on Come Ax, no bid.
And gold bid in the cash markets, $50,000 per ounce and no offer.
None available.
And that's what it will look like.
Now, we've been talking strictly finance.
Right.
I think it's more important to talk about society.
Let's do that.
Because what's society going to look like?
All right, so let's tackle that part of the conversation.
When the dollar, I mean, people are already experiencing the dollar losing its purchasing power at an accelerated rate.
That's going to accelerate much more rapidly.
Yeah, we're going to get to the point where we have a currency slash credit crisis.
What happens to all the people out there who are barely making it financially right now, barely can pay rent or a mortgage, and they don't have gold and silver, they don't own anything, and then their dollar becomes worthless.
They're done.
They have nothing to fall back on.
What does society look like?
I mean, are we talking about cities turning Mad Max?
Mad Max.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I mean, I was laughed at 10 years ago.
I wrote an article talking about, you know, this will ultimately lead to Mad Max.
And I was, you know, crazy conspiracy lunatic.
But I think even the average person now could see how it could happen.
And I mean, I can see, not only see, but I mean, it's like a roadmap to Mad Max.
Isn't it?
Yeah.
I mean, if we have the strife that we've had in the past five years in, quote, good times, what's it going to look like during bad times?
Part of that strife right now is in blue cities, you're seeing these revolts against ICE agents that are raiding the marijuana farms and stuff like that.
Yeah, and a lot of those are paid for.
Yeah, exactly.
What happens when the government itself, the government agents, they're paid in dollars.
What happens if the government paychecks aren't worth anything?
Well, remember, there's more than one, quote, government.
You've got the federal government.
So presumably they'll just get a raise and another raise and another raise and another raise so that they can eat.
Like Weimar, Germany type raises.
Right.
But what happens to the local and state governments?
They can't print money.
That's right.
They can't give people raises.
When we get to the point where the shithouse comes down, the financial system has broken.
When credit stops, everything stops.
I mean, you know that as a businessman, nothing functions without credit.
Once that happens, and I've actually polled local cops, even state cops, you know, what are you going to do under this scenario?
And the vast majority answers, I'm going to be home protecting my family.
Yes.
Because they're going to either not be getting a paycheck or getting a paycheck that doesn't buy a pack of gum.
I would think also that cities like Los Angeles, they're going to have to abandon the maintenance of their infrastructure.
Correct.
Now, with the big cities, I could easily see them being ring-fenced.
Not to stop people from getting in, but from stopping them from getting out.
Escape from L.A. Yeah, I could see that.
And the cops just declaring that to be a no-go zone, and we don't even police inside there.
Now, what kind of Mad Max is that?
Yeah, that's serious Mad Max.
4-4.
Yeah.
That's an.
And that's not too far from where we are now.
No, it's really not far from the 400.
In L.A., in Portland, Seattle, you name the blue city where cops won't go.
But as you know, every city, especially L.A., has all of these external inputs like water.
Right.
Right.
No water.
If you have no water piped into L.A. and no electricity piped in, what happens to the city?
That's the thing.
Without credit, how does the water company purify water?
How does the electric company pay for fuel to create electricity?
It all boils down to credit.
It's all about credit.
I've said that all along.
I am convinced that this will be a credit event.
Because credit, we talked before we even started today.
You can't believe the system's still up and running.
The reason being is the amount of credit that has been used, the re-hypothecation, everything's already been borrowed against.
There's very little collateral left worldwide to borrow against.
So then would that kind of event naturally lead to secession, regions declaring themselves to be sovereign so they can print their own currency?
That would make sense, wouldn't it?
It would, you would think.
Yeah.
Because if Washington, D.C. is dysfunctional at that time, the states have very little choice in terms of survival.
They have to come up with some kind of local system.
Right.
And it's interesting, you've had, I forget what the number is now, 17 states, it might be more than that, that have recognized gold and silver as money.
Yeah.
Including Texas.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Very happy about that.
So you got to ask why.
You know, why are they doing that?
It's people thinking forward, if all of a sudden the dollar goes poof, we have to have our constituents, we have to give them the ability to use gold and silver as money.
Well, and I'm sure you're familiar with the new Texas law that was just signed that establishes by 2027 the ability to have like a Texas debit card where you can spend your physical gold and silver on the card.
Like you spend dollars and then they sell off your metals.
I just did that because, I mean, why would I spend gold instead of dollars?
Well, I still spend the bad money.
You keep the gold.
Totally.
Gresham's Law, right?
Right.
But I think that Texas is setting up for when the dollar collapses.
Right.
Oh, I agree.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think those guys know what's coming.
Well, there's a lot of people out there smarter than you and me.
And if we know that, there's other people that have already gone way past where we are.
They're just, they're so smart, they just don't talk about it publicly like you and I do.
Because we're trying to warn other people.
Like, don't get wiped out by this whole thing.
Exactly.
There's actually, you can control your destiny.
And the answer is, I believe, stacking gold and silver.
You might not be able to control your destiny, but you can steer your destiny.
Yeah, fair enough.
You can avoid a total wipeout.
Right.
Yeah.
But there will be an era of extreme chaos, obviously violence and crime and rule.
Whether it looks like Mad Max or not, there is going to be an era of extreme chaos once credit collapses.
When I say credit collapses, once the world, and they've been in the process of this, once the world actually calls the U.S. out and says, hey, wait a minute, you know, none of this Wimpy and the Hamburger next Tuesday anymore.
It's cash and carry for you guys.
Once that happens, credit basically gets shut off except for the Treasury and the Federal Reserve, which are now under the same roof.
It's taken money from the left hand or right-hand pocket, put it in the left-hand pocket.
One's borrowing and the other's creating out of thin air.
It's nothing all the way through, but it looks good.
The Federal Reserve will be the lender of last, last resort to the Treasury.
And Treasury holdings now by foreigners are back down to where they were 11 years ago.
I saw China is selling off rapidly.
No kidding.
Japan is holding some, but not really interested in buying any new debt.
Right.
It's just leaking drips.
The other typical buyers, I mean, we're only going to have allies like some Western European forests.
We have the Bahamas.
Yeah, right.
But it seems like the whole world desperately needs the BRICS infrastructure to have sort of an honest financial plumbing system that can't be counterfeited or weaponized by any one country.
Well, and that was the biggest, biggest mistake that they made in what was it, 2022.
Yeah, March.
Talking about cutting off Russia from Swift?
It was, well, cutting off Russia, but it was October of, I think it was October of 23.
If you look at a chart on gold, you'll see, you know, it's chopping, and all of a sudden it just starts, it just turned into a tractor in first gear going up.
And that's when we sequestered 300 billion of Russian treasuries.
Yes.
And now, like fools, what are they talking about?
Oh, well, we're going to use that 300 billion to buy weapons and to arm Ukraine so they can attack Russia.
That doesn't go over too well.
No, I mean, that's the collapse of global faith in the Western financial infrastructure.
Yeah, that's the ultimate in pulling your pants down.
Yeah, but especially these European leaders, they are determined to steal that $300 billion.
Now, currently they're just tapping into the interest off the $300 billion, which is bad enough.
That's also theft.
It's all theft.
But they want to go for the principle.
There's no rule of law.
That's what it is.
There's no rule of law.
That's what it discloses, is that there is no rule of law.
I tell you, look, I'm an American.
I love my country.
I love taxes.
But if I were in Putin's shoes, I would say, okay, every billion that you steal, you get a nuke.
You know what I mean?
That's a little extreme.
No, but I mean, there's got to be, I'm saying this kind of like a meme, like a joke.
But, you know, Putin should say, you steal our money, there's got to be consequences.
Well, there will be consequences.
We just don't know exactly what the consequences are going to be.
We don't know when they're going to occur, but they will be negative.
And it will affect Americans and the American standard of living.
There will be consequences.
Yeah.
Which will be the global abandonment of the dollar.
Exactly.
Yes.
And that's already underway.
There are still people that argue with me about this for some reason.
They're like, no, the dollar is going to be here for a thousand years.
Like, it's not going to last a thousand weeks.
Are you kidding me?
Five-letter word.
Bricks.
Yeah.
There would be no bricks if there was not the feeling worldwide that, hey, we got to get out from under the dollar.
Yeah, right.
There would be no bricks.
There'd be no reason for our bricks.
I mean, frankly, the only way that the dollar could have a future is if Trump apologized to Russia, sorry that we stole your $300 billion.
He didn't give it back and declared neutrality that the financial system will be neutral from now on.
But that's never going to happen.
Good luck with that.
Yeah, never going to happen.
Right.
So, okay.
All right.
So what have I left out here that you want to point out?
I mean, from a broad picture, I mean, we drilled right down on it.
Credit.
That is the problem.
Credit slash a fake currency.
I think the most important thing for people watching, listening is that they understand it.
You're going to be on your own.
You're going to dial 911 and it's just going to ring.
Nobody's going to pick it up.
Nobody's going to come out to fix your broken leg.
Nobody's going to come out.
DoorDash is not showing up.
So if you're going to be on your own, prepare.
And I could say if it doesn't happen, but there is no if it doesn't happen because it's math.
It's math.
It's pure math.
You know, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, you could argue, well, that's Bill Holter's opinion.
You can't argue that anymore.
It's math.
Math is math.
Math is math, whether you're Indian, Chinese, Russian, American, Brazilian, whatever.
Math is math.
Two plus two equals four.
It cannot ever equal five.
And the bottom line is there's so much debt outstanding versus the size of the economy and the taxes that are generated, there's no way the debt can be paid back in current dollars.
There will be a default, and I'm not saying that it's going to be a default of non-payment, but it's going to be a default where the dollar basically goes to zero and Treasury prints up the dollars and says, here's your dollars.
We paid you.
Uh-huh.
Right.
Here's your pension check.
Sweet nothing.
Here's your pension check.
Here's your Social Security check.
Right.
But it's worthless.
Have you ever heard the phrase, the math ain't mathin?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we are forced to react to all of this very rapidly.
The other day when Trump announced 50% tariffs on copper, I went out and bought ammo, rifle ammo.
There you go.
Because I'm like, 300 WinMag, copper rounds.
Right, right.
These are going to get really pricey.
So I loaded up on some 300 WinMag.
But of course, I'm not trying to build a data center, thank God, because you know what copper increases are going to do to electrical conduit and the circuitry?
Well, what's that going to do to the grid?
Yeah, right.
Exactly.
And that's another problem.
I mean, that's a huge problem.
Our kilowatt hour cost on average is going to skyrocket in America, whereas in China, you know, it's a fraction of what we pay in America.
Yeah, because they didn't sign up for the stupid-ass climate accords.
Right.
Paris climate accords.
You know, at some point, you also realize that these crazy, insane leftists, they sabotage our whole energy infrastructure on purpose to put us behind.
But then say, but make sure your car's electric.
Yeah, right, right.
And the grid, I was just reading it.
What's the grid?
The East Coast grid called JPL or something?
Yeah.
The grid, it's maxed out.
Already.
It's maxed.
Already.
They said if you build a data center now in Pennsylvania, you bring your own power.
Can you imagine?
It has to be.
So then it's double the cost.
That's math.
Yeah, no, that's math.
Another word for math is reality.
Right, right.
What it means, I want to build a data center.
I first have to build a nuclear power plant.
Right.
Which takes 25 years.
Right.
And $10 billion, you know?
Yeah.
So it's going to get interesting, Bill.
Well, the other thing, I guess something else we can talk about is back in 2017, 18, I was really hopeful of truth bombs dropping all over the place.
Yeah.
You know, I bought into, I did not buy into Q. I mean, I always said something doesn't smell right here.
Right.
But I did buy into the rule of law is going to come back.
Well, it didn't.
And here we are six months into Trump's term.
No arrests.
No arrests.
Let's see what happens.
I mean, I'm hopeful.
But truth bombs will also blow up the financial system.
Yeah.
Because the average person, if it's laid out in front of them that everything has been a lie.
If everything has been a lie, why is the Dow Jones true?
Or, you know, whatever?
Why are financial markets?
Why are they the truth when everything else is bullshit?
And everything is bullshit today.
Everything.
Right.
Well, the whole system is run on faith.
And when people see the truth, they lose faith in the broken system.
That's the logic.
Right.
Which is interesting because they'll just be following in the footsteps of people like you and I and our audience because we've already lost all our faith in the broken corrupt system.
And they can't earn it back.
Right.
All right, Bill.
Let me give you out your website again, billholter.com.
And do you people wire money to buy metals or how do they buy from?
Yes.
Once we've discussed what you want to do, how much you want to do, what product, once I put an order in, I clear through Miles Franklin, through Andy's company.
You'll get an invoice from Miles Franklin with either wire instructions or check instructions.
If you send a wire, typically your metal will go out two business days later.
During crazy times, you know, it could be longer than that.
If you send a check, it takes seven business days for that check to clear.
Oh, yeah.
So your metal won't go out for nine days because the metal goes out two days, three days after their good funds in the account.
Will you one day accept stable coins as payment for gold?
Actually, at this point, Miles Franklin does they have an agreement or something with BitPay where you can send your Bitcoin to BitPay, they liquidate it, and then back-end it out to wherever it's supposed to go.
Because if I end up with stable coins, I want to get rid of them as quickly as possible and get it into gold.
Yes, they're hot potatoes.
Right.
Okay.
And then another question is, have you seen more attempts at transactional fraud in gold and silver?
Like people trying to sell you counterfeit stuff or people trying to write bad checks to get gold and things like that?
No, I haven't.
Okay, that's good.
I mean, that very well could be the case.
But I mean, anytime metal is sent out from our wholesaler, it's absolutely real.
Anytime metal comes in, it's weighed, it's assayed, it's verified to be real.
Yeah.
And metal won't go out until, like I said, the check's got to actually clear.
Right.
So once there are good funds and we know that they are good funds, then we'll ship the metal out.
Okay.
So no, we've not seen, or I have not seen it.
Okay.
And do you also, can you recommend, I mean, you don't have to right now, but I mean, do you recommend if people want vaulting services?
Sure.
You have connections with vaults you recommend.
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay.
Yeah, and Miles Franklin does have a program with Brinks.
Okay.
I'm not a big fan of that, and I'm sure Andy's not going to like hear this.
It's okay.
We all have different views.
But I've told Andy this.
Brinks, big company, easy target.
In other words, the government could go to Brinks and say, tell us who's got what, as opposed to a private, as opposed to a public, Brinks is a public company.
Right.
A private non-bank vault.
Yeah, I prefer the private vault.
There's one in North Dakota right on their website.
It says, we will not comply with anything that we view to be unconstitutional.
Yeah.
I know those guys.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, I know you do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Those are the kind of people I tend to know.
People who have statements on their websites like that.
Okay.
Any other final word of advice in terms of preparedness or just people getting ready for what's coming?
Just do the best you can and don't have a broad view.
Don't have a narrow view because you could buy all the gold and silver in the world and you lose power.
You get overrun.
You get shot at, whatever.
You don't have guns.
You get shot at.
You get killed.
Have a broad view of what you need to survive On your own, and I've said this before: it's not a bad idea to spend a weekend.
Go home, hit your switch.
Oh, yeah.
Hit your power switch.
Find out what life's going to be like without power.
I mean, if you can afford to do it, you want to have solar, you want to have some type of generators, you want ammo, and you want a community.
I mean, you cannot do it yourself.
You got to sleep.
You can't do it just you and your family.
You might have to be two families, three, four families.
But make a plan, try to shoot holes in your own plan, and just do the best you can.
Well, I have a whole ranch diesel generator, and I run it once a month, and sometimes I switch over to it, and then I store diesel fuel.
It's the easiest way to store energy.
Right.
Store diesel.
Yeah, because it doesn't go bad.
Yeah.
And then you notice I drive a diesel truck.
So gas stations go down.
With a big dog inside.
With a big dog.
Yeah.
And a big rifle that I haven't shown you.
But and then I advise people, if you're going to have firearms, get yourself a rifle-size ultrasonic cleaner.
It'll save you so much time cleaning your rifles and cleaning your barrels.
I mean, I don't want to spend all day with cotton swabs and ramming rods through barrels.
Just throw it in the cleaner, man.
And run that sucker for 30 minutes.
I got too many rifles to clean manually, man.
Oh, you might have a lot of time on your hands.
Well, okay.
Might keep you occupied.
Yeah, I'll probably be planting food if that happens.
Figuring out how to grow more stuff.
Yeah, that's another thing.
I mean, we're in an area, it's hard to grow a lot of things here in Texas because of the heat.
Right.
But, you know, having a greenhouse or a couple greenhouses for wintertime, you know, you can grow spring into early summer, but, you know, July, August, early September is pretty tough.
Yeah.
Rough around here.
All right.
Well, that's a good overview.
Thank you so much, Bill, for your time today.
And really appreciate you and your views on all of this.
And I would advise our audience to heed your warnings, take it seriously, because difficult times are coming.
So thank you, Bill.
Always a pleasure.
Thanks for having me, Mike.
All right, folks, as Bill Holter, his website again is billholter.com.
This is not a paid promotion.
He's just, well, and Mr. Gold is your moniker.
Just regular guy.
Mr. Gold is our regular guy, stacking gold and silver.
I just always appreciate Bill's wisdom and experience in these areas, and he will set you straight on this.
So take advantage of all this information.
Feel free to repost this interview on other channels and other platforms.
You have my permission to do so.
I'm Mike Adams, of course, of Brighteon.com, and thank you for watching today.
And let's say God bless America.
I pray for safety.
I don't wish and hope for any kind of disasters.
I hope and pray for people to be prepared because we know disaster is coming.
So the best thing you can do is navigate it and get ready for it.
So thank you for watching.
Take care, everybody.
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