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Oct. 25, 2024 - Health Ranger - Mike Adams

01:40:48

An interview with Joel Salatin about Challenges in Modern Agriculture...

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	Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Welcome to today's episode of Decentralized TV here on Brighteon.com, the free speech video platform.
	And if you love to live in a decentralized manner and have control over your own food supply and be more resilient and sustainable in living with healthy, nutritious food, you're going to love our guest today.
	It's Joel Salatin with Polyface Farms.
	And he is, I mean, he's a legend in the space of growing your own food and doing so in a way that makes sense.
	And he's an author.
	He's a lecturer.
	He's got apprentice programs and so much more.
	He joins us with our co-host today, Todd Pitner, who joins us from Florida as storms are rolling through.
	Welcome, gentlemen, to the show today.
	It's an honor to have you both here.
	It's our delight and honor to be with you.
	Thanks, Mike.
	Good to see you as always.
	It's great to see both of you.
	And Joel, I gotta say, Todd and I are longtime fans of your work, and we have learned much from you over the years and implemented some of it, not all of it, but some of it.
	And tell our audience, if you would, please, because it's the first time we've had you on, Joel.
	Just give us a brief introduction of your farm, polyfacefarms.com, your work and your focus.
	Yeah, so we farm in Virginia's Shenandoah Valley, which is on the western side of Virginia.
	We own about 950 acres.
	250 acres is open.
	700 is woodland.
	And then we rent another about 1,200 acres in the area from other people, additional pasture.
	So we're in pastured livestock.
	So we have salad bar beef, pigerator pork, pastured poultry.
	That includes turkeys, broilers, and eggs.
	We have rabbits, lambs, and ducks for duck eggs.
	So we're in all sorts of pastured livestock.
	We have, you know, we retail everything.
	So we don't wholesale.
	We retail, we ship nationwide, and there's about 22 salaries that get generated here from the farm.
	So it's quite an exciting place.
	Thank you for that intro, but you also, of course, help teach people about the methods that you are using.
	And I think, in addition to a lot of people appreciating your products, they also appreciate the knowledge that you've gained and shared over the years.
	You want to talk about that for a second?
	Sure, and thank you for that.
	Yes, we're very much a teaching farm, so probably the core of our teaching is we run a very formal apprenticeship and stewardship program.
	We started the apprenticeship program almost 30 years ago, and the stewardship program about 10 years later.
	Stewardship, a lot of people would call them interns, but we call them stewards because that more captures what we're after.
	Interns is now a little bit of a demeaning thing.
	Oh, you mean all you can do is get coffee for the boss?
	And so the steward kind of elevates them to a different place.
	And so we have that program.
	It's very, very formal.
	We take it very seriously and invest a lot of time.
	We have half a day a week is in what we call shop talk, where we do everything from How to do small engine repair, to tie knots in a rope, and all sorts of these things.
	And then we do an on-farm two-day seminar every summer, two or three of these, called the Polyface Intensive Discovery Seminar, shortened to PIDs.
	Americans can't talk in multisyllabic words, so...
	We shorten it to PIDS, the acronym, and it's a two-day, six-meal seminar, worth coming just for the meals, but it's basically our most intimate, behind-the-scenes look for people that want to come and learn how to do these things.
	We butcher chickens, we butcher rabbits, we build compost, we cut trees, we mill timber, we make...
	You know, boards and move cows and move pigs and, you know, build ponds and roads and all sorts of things.
	So it's a very intensive two day.
	And then beyond that, I've written 16 books.
	So, you know, there's a pretty hefty, you know, book deal.
	I do a video curriculum that's now over 30 hours.
	We're trying to get to 100 in a couple of years.
	It's called Farm Like a Lunatic.
	And it's how to make a commercial white collar salary on a farm.
	It's not geared.
	There's a lot of material in that for small scale homesteader types.
	But this is really geared to commercial farmers.
	And I don't think there's anything really like it out there.
	And so that's a video curriculum that we do.
	And then we host gatherings.
	So starting in 2020, we began hosting gatherings here.
	And we built the Lunatic Learning Center.
	I mean, I'm the lunatic farmer, right?
	So we've got the Lunatic Learning Center, which can handle 300 to 400 people.
	And we do all sorts of educational gatherings for different organizations that want to get together and have great food in a pastoral, bucolic setting, child-friendly, you know, ponds you can fish in, and very family-friendly as opposed to an urban conference center.
	A lot cheaper and a lot better food and a lot better air to breathe.
	So, you know, we do those as well.
	I'm the editor of the Stopman Grass Farmer, which is the world's leading trade magazine in pastured livestock production.
	And so, you know, we have that going on as well.
	So, yeah, there's a lot of outreach here.
	We do lunatic tours.
	Did one last Saturday.
	We've got our last one of the year coming up in a couple of weeks.
	Where people come for a two and a half hour hayride tour.
	And we do several of those a season to accommodate people that want to, you know, just kind of come and peek in and see what we do and get the dog and pony show.
	And I do a lot of speaking around the world.
	You know, I travel internationally and here, you know, speaking, doing seminars and things like that.
	So, yeah, it's a heavy education schedule as well.
	Absolutely.
	Let me bring in Todd here because, Todd, I know you want to take your food for us to the next stage.
	I don't know if you want to cut your own timber.
	But now we know where you can go to learn all those skills if you want.
	But how thrilled are you to have Joel as our guest?
	This is amazing.
	And my initial assessment is that Joel's Netflix subscription goes way underutilized based upon what he just shared in his schedule.
	So, Joel, you know, I'm a lunatic learner, and I did a lot of research prior to this interview, and I just kind of want to paint a picture for our viewing audience so we can kind of hone in on what polyface farming is.
	So I want to just kind of describe something, and you tell me if I have it right.
	So I want us to imagine...
	An animal's mouth being a paintbrush, okay?
	And a large field, pasture field, being the canvas.
	Now as I understand it, a poly-faced farm is a grass culture farm where the primary focus is on the grass as the canvas.
	And the animals, they don't just paint the canvas in one little area, That would be pretty ugly painting, right?
	They shift their painting daily, and over time, these grazing cells, I think is what you call it, paint the entire canvas or the entire field into a beautiful, beautiful masterpiece that, when you zoom out, looks like a perfectly Grilled ribeye steak on my dinner plate.
	Is that right, Joel?
	Do I have that right?
	Man, you're a great word picture guy.
	I like that.
	I've never had that expressed exactly that way, but being a fellow wordsmith...
	Yeah, I'll take it.
	That's very good.
	You get an A+. All right.
	That's great.
	Well, let's do this.
	Polyface.
	That's very original.
	Can you unpack that for us, please?
	I shouldn't be thinking about the face of a soprano's mobster named Polly, right?
	What is polyface farming?
	So polyface is, poly of course, is the prefix, Latin prefix for many.
	You know, you have polygots, polygons, polygons.
	So polyfaces, when we started, we knew that we were going to have multiple enterprises.
	So we weren't going to just be cattle.
	We were going to be multiple enterprises from trees to cows to whatever.
	We also knew that we wanted to have, that we wanted to be a people-centric farm from day one We aspired to populate the farm with loving, caressing caretakers, as opposed to the current USDA orthodoxy is, let's depopulate the farms, do it all with robots and machinery, and get rid of all the people on the farms.
	And so we wanted to be people-centered, so that would be human faces.
	And so it was that...
	That idea of many of everything that we wanted to capture in the polyphase.
	I've got a question.
	Yes, that's fascinating.
	No, I love that, because the first time I heard it, I was thinking polyphase, like, you know, from the science perspective, solid, liquid, gas, plasma, and then I was like, no, it's polyphase.
	Oh, okay.
	That makes more sense.
	Here's a question I have for you.
	I live in Central Texas, and it's cattle country, and the way that I see cattle ranchers I can't even say use the land.
	They abuse the land.
	They put way too many cattle on it.
	They end up with nutrient-poor soils that they have to then treat aggressively with a lot of chemical applications, weed killers and so on.
	They always end up with not enough food.
	Typically in the summer and then they have to supplement hay and the hay was cut from somebody else's field that grew nothing but weeds so it's like weed hay and and they cut down most of the trees and the cattle don't have enough shade and I'm like this can't be the way to do this.
	There's got to be a better way.
	What's your reaction when when you see an operation like that?
	Well, it's all over the world.
	It's not just in Texas, trust me.
	It's all over the world.
	And it is the normal.
	It is the normal.
	So what it is is a deviation.
	The important thing to realize is that what you're seeing, what you're describing, is a deviation from what What nature's patterns are.
	So if you look at herbivores in nature, cows and herbivore, okay, let's deal with that.
	Cows and herbivore.
	So if you look at herbivores in nature, whether it's zebras in Africa, you know, wildebeest on the Serengeti, those are the biggest wild herds now.
	Used to be the American bison.
	Before that, it was the Rx, you know, in Europe.
	If you look at these herbivores around the world, what you see is they're doing three things.
	They're moving.
	They're moving onto new ground.
	A lot of times it's in search of food.
	Sometimes it's to get away from a predator.
	They're mobbed up.
	They're not spread out.
	They're bunched together pretty tightly.
	And that's for predator protection.
	So they're mobbing, they're moving, and they're mowing.
	They're not eating dead chickens and, you know, carry-on and stuff.
	They're actually eating, you know, material, vegetation material that they then ferment in their multistomachs.
	And so moving, mobbing, mowing is kind of the foundation, the platform of herbivores around the world.
	So if you violate any one of those, moving, mobbing, or mowing, if you violate any of them, you suddenly take an asset and turn it into a liability.
	And the fact is that some, you know, whatever, 95% of all cattle in the world We're good to
	go.
	Where herbivores for years and prairies together have built this soil because grass has a more efficient metabolism of solar energy than trees and bushes, than woody species.
	But the grass has a very short life cycle.
	That's the problem.
	It grows and it gets old and it turns to carbon.
	And so using the herbivore as a pruner to restart the rapid growth cycle of the grass actually collects a lot more solar energy and actually builds soil.
	We call this mob-stocking herbivorous solar conversion, lignified carbon sequestration and fertilization.
	I love that.
	That makes perfect sense.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Todd, go ahead.
	I know you want to jump in.
	Wow.
	Well, you know, again, in my research, what I realized is in your whole polyface farming practice, there is a set of heroes.
	And I had no idea who these heroes were.
	So you need to let me know if I have this right.
	And everybody out there, excuse the language, I'm just being technical here.
	When animals graze, shit happens, right?
	And as we can infer, massive cow patties, they attract flies, which ultimately terrorize the cows because flies bite the butts that feed them, apparently.
	Now, they aren't, because they're just not very smart, Joel.
	So, to combat the flies, what do you do?
	You and your team do.
	You send in the real heroes, which are the chickens.
	Tell us about how the chickens solved the fly biting problem, Joel.
	Yeah, so...
	If you look in nature, the egret on the rhino's nose, the macaws, the birds that follow the herbivores, if you look at any nature program, there's all these birds swarming behind the herbivores.
	The bird-herbivore relationship is one of the most Synergistic and symbiotic relationships in nature.
	And so we're looking at these cow pies and the flies and all this, saying, well, how can we get birds behind the cows?
	And so we follow the cows with a movable, portable hen house.
	We call it the egg mobile.
	And the egg mobiles follow the cows about, you know, three to four days.
	That's the fly cycle.
	And the chickens then, they're attracted, they learn very quickly that in those cow pies are these fly maggots, larvae, fly larvae, they're maggots, and so that pays the salary for the chickens to tear them all apart,
	and they take that cow pie, And they make it cover way more ground, which eliminates the repugnancy zone for when the cows come back in to graze because it's now spread the fertility out into a more metabolizable, assimilatable volume on a larger area of ground and they've eliminated the flies
	and of course the cows have just been there so that grazing and that exposes the grasshoppers and the crickets and all the other you know life that's down in the pasture so the chickens harvest you know they scoop all that up and and the chickens then convert all that and turn it into the most amazing eggs you can ever imagine
	so instead of using grubicides and parasiticides and things like that you know systemic things that injections and pour ons that make the that make the the cow so anti insect that you know that that that kills them and Anything that kills bugs, I probably don't want to eat.
	So instead of doing that, we use the chickens as a biological sanitizer behind the cows and a fertility engine, and so the animals do the work instead of us.
	So we don't have to buy anything from off the farm, we don't have to put the cows through the head gate, anything of that sort of thing.
	Yes, the chickens, I wonder where you were going with that, Todd.
	The chickens are the heroes because they then, not only do they do all this work for us, But guess what?
	They lay eggs.
	They lay eggs as a byproduct of the pasture sanitation.
	And so it's a wonderful, positive contribution.
	Well, I'm glad you mentioned that, Joel, because now I'm realizing that I've been doing it wrong when I take my dogs for a walk out to the areas where I have Donkeys on a lot more acreage and my dogs try to eat the donkey poo.
	I think I need to have chickens eating the cow poo instead of my dogs eating the donkey poo.
	But I just gave up teaching them not to.
	I'm like, go for it.
	It's fermented grass.
	Maybe they need some probiotics.
	I don't know.
	But just let them go for it.
	They can have the donkey poo.
	They actually enjoy it.
	Now, if you can teach your dogs to lay eggs...
	That would be a trick.
	You're going to be in hot cotton.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Now, I want to ask you then about this global war against ranchers.
	And there is this idea now, especially among those who absolutely despise carbon dioxide, that they think that all cattle are bad, that all ranching is bad, even that all meat is bad.
	And it seems like they're missing a very important point is that you can take land even think about Nevada or West Texas or Oklahoma many places you can take land that barely functions for anything else but through the use of things like cattle They can convert,
	like you mentioned earlier, the solar energy goes into the grass, the cow goes out and gathers the grass and even finds its own water sources, if you've got them anywhere around, and it gathers that and it concentrates that into a nourishment product for humanity.
	So cows can take land that has virtually no value and they can actually add value to it for humanity.
	Why do some people hate this process?
	Well, it's kind of what you mentioned earlier is that most ranchers are not actually increasing the soil.
	They're not actually helping the land with their cattle ranching.
	They're actually depleting the land.
	So when you look at You know, documentaries like Cowspiracy and What the Health and things like that, you know, their data collection is based on convention, you know, the normal stuff and the orthodoxy of the day.
	And that orthodoxy is not what we do.
	We're a complete lunatic fringe.
	We're, you know, out here.
	And so those scientists are not coming here collecting data.
	Right.
	So what's happening, if you're collecting data from a dysfunctional system, it might lead you to a dysfunctional conclusion.
	And so that's where this war on ranchers is developing.
	And so in the first part of these documentaries, I'm sitting there, you know, when they're...
	I'm sitting there, yeah, yeah, boy, preach it, preach it.
	But the answer is not veganism.
	The answer is not getting rid of all the cows.
	The answer is, well, How did the bison do it?
	How did the wildebeest do it?
	How can we do this to actually grow more soil?
	That's the answer.
	I mean, it should give us all pause to realize that 500 years ago, North America produced more food than it does today.
	Now, it wasn't all eaten by people.
	You know, we had 2 million wolves to feed.
	That was, you know, 40 million pounds a day just with the wolves.
	We had 200 million beavers.
	They ate more vegetables because they're herbivores.
	They ate more vegetables than all the people in North America today.
	Audubon sat under a tree in 1820 in Massachusetts.
	He couldn't see the sun for three days because the passenger pigeons flying over, you know, blotted out all the sun for three days.
	That's before Cargill, Tyson, and Purdue.
	And so it was really actually extremely abundant and had more animals, if we put humans into the animal category, it had more animal weight on it 500 years ago than it does today.
	So the question is not...
	You know, are we overpopulated?
	Do we have too many cows or whatever?
	No, the question is, how do we move to those ancient patterns with modern technology?
	Yes.
	How do we move to those ancient patterns and recapture that abundance that was here in the past?
	And it means, so we move our cows every day to mimic the movement of the bison.
	They didn't stay in one place.
	We move our cows every day using high-tech electric fence with computer microchip energizers.
	And, you know, we can do this for the first time in human history.
	We now have the technology to actually do the movement a little better than fire and wolves and a little more control.
	We can literally put a steering wheel, a brake and an accelerator on, you know, a herd of 500 cows and steer them across the landscape with the same precision as a zero-turn mower on a golf course.
	That's pretty cool.
	Yeah, very cool.
	And let me add one more thing before Todd comes back in.
	In Europe in particular, one of the ways they attack farming and ranching is they've identified this one element now, this one element called nitrogen, is now apparently the enemy of mankind for some reason.
	We used to call it fertilizer.
	Now they say it's a pollutant that's destroying the world because animals produce it as a byproduct of their metabolism.
	And so they're shutting down farms across the Netherlands and many European countries because of the nitrogen.
	How does your farm deal with nitrogen in a positive way?
	Oh boy, this is always a difficult one, because I've been to the Netherlands half a dozen times doing seminars, and the problem in the Netherlands is that they are importing shiploads and shiploads and shiploads of grain out of Paraguay, Uruguay, and Brazil, and turning the whole country into a toilet.
	The problem is imbalance, okay?
	It's not the...
	They're putting on, they're raising so many animals with all this imported grain feedstocks.
	I mean, for example, I'm talking to a young couple, one of the last seminars I did there.
	Young couple, the dairy couple, you know, came in.
	I said, you know, I got to meet them.
	I said, so, you know, you're dairying.
	How many cows do you have?
	They said 100.
	I said, so how big is your place?
	10 acres.
	You can't put 100 cows on 10 acres without having excess manure.
	So the countryside smells like poop because the canals, Netherlands is a low country, all the canals are clogged up with all this poop and this nitrogen is growing Of vegetation and willows clogging up the canals so the country can't drain.
	Well, then the water systems don't work because of the clogging up of the vegetation.
	And so the country is just over, you know, oversaturated with this.
	So what we do on our farm, A, we maintain a balance.
	Our pastured broilers.
	We put 75 or 76 in a 10 foot by 12 foot by 2 foot tall field shelter.
	We move them every day to a fresh spot.
	We're putting on 200 pounds of nitrogen per acre on that pass.
	We don't touch that square foot for a whole year.
	To allow three to four growth cycles come off of that grass to metabolize that nitrogen before the chickens go back on.
	The fact is, it doesn't matter whether it's organic, chemical, or anything else.
	If you put more nitrogen on than the climate, your context can metabolize into vegetation, that nitrogen is going to go somewhere.
	It's either going to go in the atmosphere or it's going to go in the aquifer or the groundwater.
	It's going to go somewhere.
	And so we have to be appreciative of balance.
	So in the wintertime, when the soil is dormant and can't eat and the actinomycetes and the mycelium and the earthworms are hibernating, we feed hay for the cows.
	You know, if we got a blizzard and you run out of grass, We feed hay to the cows under a shed roof awning with a carbonaceous diaper of wood chips underneath the cows to absorb all the manure and urine so it doesn't go anywhere and we can then compost it to put that compost on the fields.
	And it doesn't smell like nitrogen.
	It smells like forest leaves because it's balanced out with the carbon.
	The carbon-nitrogen balance has to be the same.
	I'm so glad to hear that.
	Todd, I mean, see, to be a good rancher, you also have to understand the chemistry of what's going on, the cycles.
	Absolutely, and so I just have one question for Joel then pertaining to that.
	Joel, when did God actually sit down with you to give you the inside scoop on how to create the systems like you have?
	Joel, come on.
	Give it to us.
	You know, it's really very simple.
	Let me say it this way.
	You know, early on, so we came to the farm in 1961.
	I'm four years old.
	Dad's trying to figure out how do you make a living on a farm?
	And, you know, it was gullies and rock pile.
	And I remember as a kid walking the whole farm and never setting foot on a piece of vegetation.
	It was that thin and that poor.
	And so, as Dad was looking at these systems, he said, well, you know what?
	Let's just look at what nature does.
	Let's see what nature does.
	And it's really very simple.
	Let's just take a simple phrase.
	Animals move.
	When you look at nature, animals, they don't stay in one spot.
	You know, there isn't a spot where the...
	Where the bison stands, they move.
	Well, if you just take that simple phrase, animals move, well, suddenly, if they move, I've got to control them because the neighbors don't want them.
	I've got to be able to control them where I want them to go.
	I've got to have shelter for them because they're going to be moving in and out of trees and different things.
	I've got to be able to feed them.
	I've got to move their feed around.
	I've got to move their water around.
	So over the years, we've put in 12 miles of buried water line around all of our fields from high permaculture-style ponds that gravity feed, no electricity, no pumps, that gravity feed down 12-mile grid of water that gives us 70 PSI water around all our fields from ponds up on high ground.
	Wow.
	That's the kind of infrastructure development.
	So people come and say, wow, this is amazing.
	You know, they can't believe that this is done.
	The whole thing was from a simple phrase, animals move.
	And as soon as you posit that, then a whole other bunch of stuff comes out.
	Like, you know, how does nature build soil?
	Well, it doesn't do it with 10-10-10 chemical fertilizer.
	It certainly doesn't do it with Roundup and DDT. It builds it with carbon.
	Carbon, very simple.
	All right, well, if soil is built with carbon, how do we get more carbon in the soil?
	These are very simple concepts with profound ramifications.
	So our creativity and innovation, the things that we've put together, are not because we sat down and had a focus group and said, hey, let's see how we can be a creative farm.
	It was simply, Phrases like that, you know, carbon build soil, animals move, simple phrases like that, and the ramifications then just, you know, bring the invention.
	Joel, what you said is so fascinating to me, because...
	Similar projects that I've been working on, I have some questions.
	In order to establish that 70 PSI, what's the vertical height differential that you have on those ponds?
	And I'm very curious how you have the intake from those higher elevation ponds too.
	Do you happen to know that...
	Yeah, so it's.432 pounds per vertical foot.
	So every foot per vertical gives you.432 pounds.
	So it's a hundred and something feet.
	Yeah, so, yeah, 70, about.432, yeah, 162 feet.
	Okay, that's awesome.
	And then, how do you have the intake from that?
	Do you have a, because you don't want to have a pipe that goes over the berm and into the pond because you'd have priming problems.
	Do you have a pipe that goes under the berm?
	That's right, that's right.
	The pipe goes through the base of the dam.
	Yeah.
	But here's the critical thing.
	I'll mention two critical things.
	Boy, we're really getting it.
	I appreciate it.
	I don't ever get asked this kind of stuff.
	Well, we're interested.
	Yeah, good.
	All right.
	So it goes to the base of the dam.
	And the problem is that in an earthen dam, when you put a PVC pipe through there, let's say a two, two, two and a half inch PVC pipe.
	Oh, it'll crack.
	Yeah.
	You get movement.
	Not that.
	The problem is you can't really seal it up with dirt.
	You can put the best clay in there as possible, but there will be seepage down along the slick side of that pipe.
	Okay, okay.
	So the key to eliminate any seepage or leakage is to put in, we use three, just pond collars, they're called pond collars, so we just kind of, you know, with a shovel, we dig a little bit of trench around, and then we just lay in something, you know, eight inches or so, mix up some sackcrete, and just put three nice big globs of sackcrete, one at the front of the dam, one at the end of the dam, one in the middle of the dam.
	That way, when that water seeps down along the edge of that pipe, it has to go out around this, you know, Maybe 12 inches out around this glob of concrete.
	Wow.
	You put three of them in, they're called pond collars.
	You can buy them commercially, you know, PVC pond collars for plenty of money, but we just throw in a big glob of, you know, a nice big glob of concrete around.
	So that's the first thing.
	The second thing is that the best water in a pond is from 16 inches below the surface.
	No kidding.
	If you pull the water off the bottom of the pond, it's kind of funky and anaerobic.
	If you pull it off the top of the pond, it's full of, you know, fly legs and leaves and bird poo.
	And so the best water in a pond is from 16 inches under.
	So we go through the bottom of the pond with the PVC, and then on a flexible pipe, you know, like a vacuum pipe hose.
	It's got rib in it, but it's flexible.
	And that then goes up.
	I have a floaty and a piece of metal so that the intake screen hovers at 16 inches below the surface.
	So the level of the pond is, it's always pulling the water off of 16 inches.
	So let me ask you this.
	For an intake screen, what I've done, I've got PEX pipe going into, I took a crate and I wrapped it in like poly fencing to have an intake filter.
	I don't know if that's a good idea.
	It seems to be working.
	What do you use for an intake filter?
	Well, I've made intake filters out of just taking a piece of pipe and just take a little eighth-inch drill and just drill a bunch of holes in it and plug the end with a piece of round pipe.
	Yep.
	But for our main intakes, we buy a screen.
	You can get, you know, true blue Pond, you know, intake screens.
	Yeah.
	And that's probably worth the money because, you know, they really, they last pretty much forever and they're really good.
	Well, very cool.
	I mean...
	You've answered a great question for me here today, a practical question that I'm working on right now, because I live on a piece of land that's got elevation, that's got natural rainwater collection, but as you know, the rainwater wants to collect where it's low, not where it's high.
	But we want water high because we want the energy off of the high water.
	So are you able to collect it high, or do you pump it high?
	Yeah, one of the advantages that we have on our farm is we do have a lot of elevation.
	We have a thousand feet of elevation difference on our farm.
	Wow.
	Yeah, and so we actually, so yeah, we have, you know, ravines up in the mountain that we can put up.
	I mean, yeah, it does give you a pause to realize the Shenandoah Valley here where we are is 80 feet long and 20, I'm 80 feet, 80 miles long and 20 miles wide that if we had spent, if we had spent the time building ponds that we spent moving dirt to plant corn that eroded all of our topsoil...
	You know, ever since the Europeans came, today we would be flood-proof and drought-proof and would have literally recreated Eden.
	But instead, we plowed for corn to feed cows that shouldn't have it anyway.
	And eroded all the soil and now we have no soil and no ponds, no water and floods and droughts.
	So we can really change the landscape dramatically with a little bit of intentional redevelopment.
	Oh, that's what we love about what you're doing, Joel.
	Well, Todd, what do you think about that discussion just there?
	Yeah, well, I was just thinking as you guys were discussing, I'm like, man, do I interrupt?
	Do I not interrupt?
	Because I've been working on my own filtration system that has a bored out carburetor and a dual quad robustion system that'll impress the heck out of you both.
	I have an old plastic crate.
	That's my filter.
	Yeah, your discussion goes right over my head.
	But, Joel, I do have a question for you.
	You being a natural farming savant, you and your family and your team, what is the enemy of natural farming, if you could point to it, Joel?
	The enemy of natural farming?
	Oh, boy.
	I was going to say something that I thought, no, I... I'm going to give you two.
	The two big enemies are cheap food, just a cheap food mentality, that food ought to be cheap.
	A philosophy that chicken is chicken, milk is milk, cabbages are cabbages.
	It's all the same.
	So just grow it as cheap as you can.
	It's just stuff.
	And the other main enemy is government programs, the regulations and the food police and government policy.
	Because right now, the official position of the USDA is that Froot Loops and Lucky Charms are more nutritious than beef.
	I saw that!
	Unbelievable.
	Yeah, it is.
	It is unbelievable.
	I mean, you know, what kind of whatever, you know, mental gymnastics do you have to do to say something like that?
	It's just nuts on the surface, but, you know, that's where we've come.
	And there's no fruit in the fruit loops, people.
	It's not even spelled fruit.
	It's F-R-O-O-T. It's fake Fruit Loops, actually, and with fake color.
	It's not even food in my book.
	That's fake food.
	But yeah, I would much rather have a really nicely grilled hamburger than a bowl of Fruit Loops.
	Are you kidding me?
	Oh yeah, absolutely.
	And trust me, your multi-quadrillion microbes would also like it too.
	Yeah, right.
	Because, you know, your microbes inside, you know, they didn't, ancestrally, they didn't grow up adapting to Froot Loops.
	They grew up enjoying real food.
	Yeah.
	Hey Joel, quick question.
	We, with this show, we like to bring solutions to our viewing audience.
	And most of us don't have hundreds of acres to be able to farm.
	So it's a little elusive as far as how we would benefit from polyface farming.
	But can you give us a little insight to that?
	For example, You have me salivating a little bit when you said you're not wholesale, you're retail.
	That means I can go order some beef from you, some what?
	What all can I order from polyfacefarms.com?
	What a setup, Todd.
	I'm going to reach through this Zoom call and give you a hug.
	I know where you're going with this.
	First of all, yes, we do ship nationwide.
	We ship every Tuesday and Wednesday of the week.
	You can get beef, pork, chicken, turkey, eggs, And cheese, we work with an A2A2 grass-based dairy near us that does all grass-based A2A2 milk.
	They make their own cheese.
	And so, yeah, you can ship.
	And our website, polyfacefarms.com, has the whole thing on it.
	But for a small acreage, for a very, you know, let's say you've got a backyard or something.
	You know, the first, I kind of have a recipe to go forward with it.
	One is to start enjoying your kitchen.
	You know, we've never had such techno gadgetized kitchen.
	It has never been easier to cook from scratch.
	And no culture has ever so profoundly advocated that participatory, you know, the participatory authenticity and accountability that comes from viscerally participating in food prep.
	But it's never been easier.
	I mean, we've got crockpots, instapots, we've got time bake, we've got hot, cold running water, refrigerators.
	Ice cream makers, bread makers, I mean, good grief.
	It's never been easier.
	So domestic culinary arts, to me, are kind of the beginning of kind of an awakening, an awareness of what real food is.
	I mean, the difference between a, you know, a homemade apple pie versus one out of a, you know, piggly wiggly.
	There's just there's just no comparison.
	You know what the difference is between a homegrown tomato and a tomato shipped in from California.
	Of course, both of you guys are down south and maybe you don't get shipped in tomatoes very much.
	But, you know, if you're north of the Mason-Dixon line, tomatoes are all cardboard.
	because they're all selected for shipability.
	If your whole cultivar selection is, can this thing jiggle around in the back of a tractor trailer for 1,500 miles on the way to the supermarket, you're going to have a tomato that's cardboard and your kids won't like it because it tastes like cardboard.
	So real food is different.
	It tastes better.
	It's nutritionally superior.
	I mean, take our eggs, for example.
	We were one of 12 farms several years ago that participated in a survey, a nutritional survey, To debunk the notion that eggs are eggs.
	And so we sent our eggs into the lab and they came back.
	I'll just pick one item of it, folic acid.
	Folic acid is really important, especially for pregnant women.
	The USDA nutrition label says there's 48 micrograms of folic acid in an egg.
	Our eggs came back 1,038.
	We're not talking about 10% difference.
	We're talking about major differences.
	I mean, riboflavin, grass-finished beef, 300% more riboflavin in grass-finished beef than grain-finished beef.
	I mean, these are real numbers, and that reflects itself in its taste and everything else.
	Yeah, thanks for the plug, Todd, and I'd be glad to...
	If somebody doesn't know where to start, yeah, you can get some from us.
	If you've never had this kind of food, treat yourself.
	Absolutely.
	But I would also say, can I ask some of that?
	Folks, you know, backyard chickens.
	I've been raising chickens for 15 years, and my dogs get the eggs.
	We get the eggs.
	I give them away.
	Just like Joel said, they're the best eggs that you can get.
	You can recycle kitchen scraps.
	I happen to get sometimes food from my own store operation that is rejected, or sometimes we get a shipment of something that's full of bugs, like we'll get a shipment of oats full of bugs.
	Well, guess what?
	My chickens love oats with bugs, you know?
	Right?
	So, boom, they get that.
	But, Joel, I want to ask you this related to it.
	We are told by the powers that be that the best way to produce food is to eliminate all farming and ranching and cattle and instead build cricket factories and then bring in these raw materials from thousands of miles away to create fake processed meat that has all kinds of chemical taste enhancers and excitotoxins in it and And yet,
	when they have tried that commercially, as you've watched, the fake meat companies have gone out of business because it tastes like crap, number one.
	And it's all GMO crap or whatever.
	Nobody wants that stuff.
	How could they be wrong?
	Here's the major problem with all that stuff.
	The problem is that when you do lab-cultured meat, so I'm talking about where you're actually trying to culture from actual meat.
	Right.
	Not making veggie burgers, but actually trying to culture.
	The reality is that for all the hype and all the excitement and all the venture capital, billions of dollars that's gone into this over the last 10 years and promises that by now, according to the stuff that they were saying six years ago, by now they were going to be 30% of the meat industry and prices were going to collapse and the livestock industry, all the ranchers are going to go out of business because blah, blah, blah.
	The reality is they haven't been able to actually culture anything bigger than a one-gallon jug because it turns out, amazingly, that your blood vessels, heart, lungs, kidneys, and livers, your body, our body and the cow's body, our bodies are really...
	Pretty cool things for filtering and circulating and all that.
	But if you're culturing in a vat and you're trying to grow actual cloned meat in a vat, you don't have a heart.
	You don't have blood vessels.
	You don't have livers and kidneys.
	All you have is bubbles.
	So you can bubble to get movement.
	And you've got mechanical filters to move waste.
	And so as soon as you get any bigger than about a gallon jug, as you get up to like a five-gallon bucket full of this stuff, suddenly it becomes overwhelmed with waste because the The environment simply does not have the kind of amazing circulation and filtration systems that our bodies have.
	And so immediately everything becomes toxic and it just implodes on its own toxicity because it can't It can't eliminate its wastes.
	It can't poop and pee like we do.
	We just do it, and we don't even think about it, you know?
	But these cultured things, it's incredible.
	So, I don't know.
	I mean, man, you know, the creativity of humans is really big, but boy, this is one that I just don't know how this is going to work out, you know, to go to any kind of scale on it.
	I just don't see it.
	Yeah, I mean, I don't want to eat...
	Meat grown in the matrix, anyway.
	You know what I mean?
	It's like, no thanks, man.
	No thanks.
	Yeah.
	And, you know, it gets all nasty and putrid there, and I guess that ends up in, like, fast food taco meat or something.
	Who knows?
	But no, thank you.
	Listen, for the theme of your program here, let me assure you that my biggest problem with all of this fabricated food, think about this.
	The more you reduce the decentralization of food, the more you centralize it, And so when our food is coming through billion-dollar laboratories through that funnel, if that's the funnel that people are eating food from, That becomes very easy to control with nefarious agendas.
	Just think about COVID. Think about COVID in 2020.
	You know, what would have happened if in April of 2020, our country, our nation, instead of being fed by 300 centralized processing plant funnels, had been fed instead from 30,000 decentralized community-based processing funnels? decentralized community-based processing funnels?
	Would we have had as big a shock?
	The answer is an unequivocal, of course not.
	We would have adjusted much quicker because it's easier to turn a speedboat than an aircraft carrier.
	When you're on Rocky Shoals, you don't want to be in an aircraft carrier.
	You want to be in a speedboat where you're nimble and you can adapt to the changing vicissitudes of the context.
	Yep, exactly.
	Now, Todd, the last question is going to be yours because Joel's been with us, if you can believe it, almost an hour.
	I know, it's crazy.
	I want to be respectful of your time, but time is flying here because we're so thoroughly enjoying your wisdom.
	But Todd, go ahead.
	Thank you.
	Joel, I have a personal question.
	Last Saturday, a year ago, was the final installation date of my food forest in my back property.
	It was foodforestabundance.com.
	Jim Dick Gale and his team, we interviewed Jim.
	Awesome, awesome team.
	Two animal-related questions.
	I've been, you know, it's so abundant, there's life coming out of the woodwork, out of the woods, if you will.
	Are you going to talk about your raccoons?
	No, no.
	Because I guarantee you, Joel and I have the same opinion about your raccoons.
	Probably, no.
	I've begun to notice some large rats that look like they relocated from McDonald's dumpsters.
	And also, when the sun is shining, there are a few vultures who consider their, you know, my backyard their sunbathing spa.
	And my question, Joel, should I let nature be nature and just chill?
	Or would you counsel me to get some pellet gun target practice in, Joel?
	What say you?
	Yeah, so first of all, the vultures, so if those are what we call buzzards, in other words, they're not hawks.
	Right.
	Are your trees the tallest in the area?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So those vultures, they're just looking for a place to perch and roost and look for...
	Actually, you know, the vultures are very good because when something dies, they clean it up.
	Okay.
	If it weren't for the vultures, we'd have a very smelly world, let me tell you.
	Okay.
	So the vultures, as opposed to hawks.
	Now, now...
	What would be wonderful is if you had some hawks move in because the hawks would get the rats or especially owls.
	Owls, you know, they're nocturnal.
	Rats are nocturnal.
	So do you know what the rats are eating?
	What are the rats eating?
	I spread deer corn every morning for my deer and my raccoons.
	Well, you're feeding the rats.
	Let me ask you this.
	Could you change your deer feeding infrastructure or regimen To keep the rats out.
	I'm thinking of an elevated feeder or something.
	Sure.
	I can certainly do that.
	And let me be clear.
	There's two rats.
	They live in the same place.
	They come out.
	I see them.
	They skedaddle when I go in.
	So it's not an infestation of rats.
	But I didn't know if rats, period, suck.
	You know, in your environment, or I've come to appreciate and realize that things that I previously thought were bad in a permaculture ecosystem are actually good, so that's where I'm trying to wonder, do I let nature be nature?
	I have a rat-eating dog, by the way.
	My dog will capture and gobble rats because she thinks they're bunnies.
	She's a bunny gobbler, and now she's getting rats.
	Maybe I could loan her to you.
	Yeah, I would say this.
	If they're not causing any real problems, I wouldn't have any problem with them at all.
	Generally, I would say if the rats become an infestation, we have some cats move in.
	Okay.
	Cats will follow.
	There's, you know, there's feral cats.
	I'm sure you see feral cats from time to time.
	Sure.
	And if you have a rat issue, feral cats will move in and handle it.
	Nature's a pretty, you know, there's a lot of communication out there.
	There really is.
	There's a lot of people on the phone and Netflix and the radio out there, you know.
	But Joel...
	They're communicating.
	That's good information.
	Jokes aside here, but Todd has a pet raccoon.
	A very friendly family of raccoons that's in his backyard, and I tease him about it because me having chickens and living in the country...
	All I know, raccoons are chicken shredding terminators.
	But for Todd, because he doesn't have chickens, the raccoons are super friendly and eat out of his hand and everything.
	I mean, we love that about what you're doing, Todd.
	It's just, if you had chickens, you would probably see a different side.
	Yeah, probably.
	Todd, all I can say is, far be it from me, look, kind of quasi-domesticating a wild animal is always a cool thing.
	When I was in Australia, once I met a lady who had quasi-domesticated a wombat.
	And she was feeding it carrots.
	And we went over to her house and come see the wombat.
	Every evening, that wombat would waddle up and get his carrots.
	And I just was able to reach out, and nobody was able to touch a wombat.
	And it was really cool.
	So I get the emotional, kind of spiritual, kind of cool thing of quasi-domesticating a wild animal.
	But if you do, Todd, decide to raise chickens, Make sure that you have a Imagine All Line, you know, impregnable...
	Or those chickens will be raccoon dinner, let me tell you.
	Well, I would have to take out my HOA board of directors first to be able to have backyard chickens.
	So I think the raccoons will get a pass.
	Remember, raccoons have opposable thumbs and they carry Leatherman tools to loosen bolts and screws and things.
	They can open anything.
	Very smart.
	Raccoons are very smart.
	They sure are.
	All right.
	Well, Jill, this has been a real pleasure.
	I just want to go out your website again, polyfacefarms.com is the website.
	And to those of you watching, you can purchase his products here, some of the products, but also learn from him.
	Here's some of the books, and you can learn more about the farm there on the website.
	website, or you can even become a, where is it?
	You can join, you can have seminars, events, reservations, you can be an apprentice.
	So a lot of activities there.
	Joel, anything else you want to add before we wrap this up?
	you No, you've been delightful to be with, and all I'll say is that When I encourage people, I want to tell you that your decisions matter.
	And if you don't like the world we're in right now, the world we're in right now is a physical manifestation of the cumulative decisions that have been made throughout history.
	And the world we have in 40 years that your grandchildren will inherit will also be the world that's a manifestation of the decisions that we make between now and 40 years from now.
	So if we want to see a different outcome, a different world, a different situation, Don't underestimate the power of one little decision made one time, multiplied over thousands and thousands of people that are starting to think differently, act differently, and make decisions differently to change our world to a better place.
	That's a mic drop.
	Yeah, I just felt dropped, too, because I'm Mike.
	But that was beautifully stated.
	Thank you, Joel, for your time today.
	Just wonderful what you're doing, and we appreciate you.
	And I think human civilization, to be sustainable, is going to have to adopt the kinds of things that you're sharing with us here today.
	So thank you for your time.
	Thank you.
	Thanks for having me.
	Joel, expect a nice order this weekend.
	I'm going to polyfacefarms.com and I'm getting me some good beef shipped in, baby.
	No kidding.
	Great.
	We'll look forward to seeing it.
	All right.
	Thank you, Joel.
	And then for those of you watching, of course, Todd and I will be back right after this break with our after-party discussion.
	So stay tuned.
	Join the official discussion channel for this show on telegram at t.me slash decentralized tv where you can ask questions or offer suggestions of who we should interview next.
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	Check it all out at Decentralize.tv.
	All right, welcome back, folks.
	This is the After Party.
	So, Todd, as you know, look, I'm always blown away by our guests, but today, especially so.
	Joel, you know, the wisdom, just the practical hands-on wisdom from this man.
	This is revolutionary for civilization.
	Yeah, it really is.
	We need to adopt what he's doing.
	He just needs to be in charge.
	Can we skip the elections and just anoint him?
	Well, put him at the head of the USDA. Have RFK run HHS, which actually oversees the USDA. Perfect.
	Put RFK, HHS to run the FDA and the CDC and the NIH and then have Joel run USDA. How about that?
	Wouldn't that be great?
	We can only hope.
	But, yeah, the wisdom and the years and the practicality and the fact that he's done it and figured all of this stuff out.
	I mean, my goodness.
	It's just like I... When I was doing my research, I had acreage envy, Mike.
	Because he had so...
	So much, and that's why I came up with the question about how do we actually benefit those of us who don't have this massive amounts of acreage.
	You said you have acreage envy.
	I have elevation envy because he's got this elevation difference that is phenomenal.
	That's a gift to have, what did he say, 160 feet high ponds.
	So without using pumps, he can have 70 psi water pressure irrigation in the lowlands.
	The value of that, you can't even put a value on that.
	No, you can't.
	And what was the range?
	A thousand?
	Yeah, he said he's got like a thousand feet difference because he's got part of a mountain range and then he's got the lowlands.
	Yeah, it's fascinating.
	I'm really intrigued about his weekend retreats or whatever.
	I might research that.
	That would be something that would be pretty cool.
	You have to know it's beautiful up in that area.
	So if you went like in the autumn when the leaves are changing, I bet that's just stunning.
	Yeah, and remember when he mentioned, he was talking about Audubon, and back in the early 19th century, you know, the sky would be filled with so many ducks and birds and geese that it could blot out the sun.
	You realize how much has been destroyed on this continent from what it was?
	Yeah.
	The early pioneers, the reason they were trappers and whatever, because...
	Because every time you turn around a corner in the forest, there's another beaver, there's another raccoon.
	There were birds and wildlife everywhere.
	Yeah, and why do you think the indigenous population, you know, moved around in tents?
	Seriously, because they followed the herds, they followed the food, you know, and that all stopped, Mike, when the golden arches stopped moving, you know, when they became these buildings on every corner to where you didn't have to move to get your food, you had to drive.
	Well, I want to mention, too, although this is going to turn a little bit dark, but, you know, the war against the Native Americans included what we would call a holodomor, which was the deliberate shooting and wiping out of the bison because it was the food source for the Native Americans.
	Really?
	Absolutely.
	Huh.
	Absolutely, yeah.
	Well, you know, the term Holodomor comes from, under Stalin, the Soviet Union deliberately weaponized a famine in order to kill off millions of Ukrainians in 1932 and 1933 by starving them to death because they wanted to separate from the Soviet Union at that time.
	And so the state just said, well, we're going to starve you to death.
	And you know who they starved to death the most?
	It was the rural Ukrainians, the farmers, who wanted to separate.
	Well, in the history of the United States of America, the Native American Indians were subjected to engineered famine and starvation.
	And that was done by the settlers who wanted to displace them, to push them so they could take their land, which, by the way, I don't mean to make this political.
	But right now, today, Israel is committing the same thing against the Palestinians in Gaza, depriving them of food on purpose in order to displace them.
	So this method, I mean, those are three examples right there in history where famine has been weaponized in order to conquer people or push them out.
	What a horrible weapon, too.
	I mean, it's just inverted.
	Yeah, I mean, to starve people to death on purpose, you know, that's really evil.
	Well, on to a more positive note, I do want to just share something with everybody.
	I need to get my phone out here.
	And if people go to YouTube, there's a gentleman named Matt Powers, regenerative soil something.
	But anyway, I found he did a whole commentary on Joel, and he was invited into Joel's entire ecosystem, and it's called Permaculture Key Takeaways.
	Polyface Farm and Joel Salatin.
	And I would say if anybody just wanted to go put some visuals with what we discussed today, that's a really good video.
	It's, you know, it's not very long, but you'll be able to visually see what Joel's talking about, about how he moves the animals around.
	And it's just, it was just very, very cool.
	It might save you a trip to it.
	Well, I'm really glad you mentioned that, because we didn't even use the word permaculture during the entire conversation.
	No, we didn't.
	We didn't have to.
	It's like, this should be agriculture.
	Like, just regular agriculture should be this.
	Because I would say, like, the way that modern agriculture is actually pursued, it's more like toxiculture.
	Yes.
	You know?
	Like, it doesn't even deserve the name agriculture.
	Yeah, yeah.
	It's a death cult of the food supply or something.
	Now, you know, if you see something on TikTok, it must be true, Mike, but I gotta tell you, I did see something, somebody sent me something on TikTok that some of the steaks that we get are manufactured and they're putting like fake fat in steaks.
	Have you heard about that?
	Yeah, I've heard of them.
	I mean, I don't know if it's true or not, but if it is, people out there in control, shame on you.
	Don't mess with our beef.
	That's why polyfacefarms.com That's where I'm going to get my meat from now on, guys.
	I'm not going to have induced meat with chemicals just to make it look like fat.
	I just put in the freezer a quarter cow.
	Nice.
	Because I know ranchers locally in Texas, and every once in a while they butcher a cow that's unvaccinated, no GMOs in the feed, they've just been out in the fields.
	So maybe about once a year, whatever, I'll take part in that, or an eighth of a cow, or whatever.
	I don't actually eat a ton of meat, but I do eat meat.
	I think we need a certain amount of meat in our diet in order to be healthy.
	And the saturated fats, I think, are actually good for us.
	It's not toxic.
	Think about the toxic food industry wants you to switch over to all these toxic seed oils and stop eating real food.
	But you do that, you end up with heart disease and cancer and diabetes and everything, so forget that.
	But I have a source to buy cows or parts of cows locally, and the advantage is then I can also buy the bones.
	And they sell me the bones for only like, I don't know, $4.50 a pound, I think, for my dogs.
	So my dogs get bones and the bone marrow, and then I get the cuts of the beef and the steaks and what have you.
	I think it's a great...
	What are the rules with giving dogs bones so that they...
	Like, I had one schnauzer when I was young who he ended up getting into our chicken and ended up having one caught in his esophagus.
	It was horrible.
	What's the rules there?
	Well, chicken bones can be more troublesome.
	That's for sure.
	But cow bones, usually they're quite large.
	And as long as they're raw, not cooked, then they don't tend to shatter.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Like, cooked bones can splinter more easily, and chicken bones are hollow because they're birds, and so chicken bones can splinter very easily, but cow bones are more solid, although bones are never entirely solid.
	They're actually living porous systems.
	Sure.
	But cow bones are big.
	We're talking like knuckles, you know, like big chunks.
	And the idea is you want to keep your dog busy for a while, too.
	Like give them a couple hour homework assignment here and devour this knuckle you know instead of chasing rats all day Bunnies.
	You have a bunny grab, grubbler?
	What do you call it?
	Gobbler.
	Gobbler.
	Yeah, bunny gobbler.
	Bunny gobbler.
	So he literally goes out on your farm and finds bunnies and gobbles them.
	Oh, she does.
	She does.
	She finds bunnies that almost, like, out of her mouth, the bunny will be like this.
	Like, the head and the front feet are over here, and then the back feet are over here.
	And I'll say, I'll scream at her, oh my god!
	And she'll go, and she swallows it.
	She swallows the bunny whole.
	Indigestion, Mike?
	No, no problems.
	This dog is a blue healer.
	She's the fastest eating dog I've ever seen.
	She must have throat dilation superpowers or something because she can swallow.
	She's like a boa constrictor.
	Yeah, she is.
	And a cow that has like four stomachs, five stomachs, however many stomachs they have.
	It's really incredible.
	But anyway, just weird food stories.
	But the bottom line is, all of us need a source to get clean food and real food.
	Yeah.
	And most people end up going to the grocery store, which can provide some healthy food items, but more and more the food supply in the grocery store is increasingly contaminated.
	It's increasingly factory foods, you know, Tyson foods, and Tyson's moving into the cricket factories.
	So how much you want to bet they're going to have like cricket protein powder They will come up with a new name.
	They won't even call it crickets.
	And most people won't know they're going to be buying chicken nuggets that are 30% cricket powder or something.
	They won't even know it.
	And you won't even know it.
	Yeah.
	You know, I had to go into Walmart because I was out of corn feed and I just needed something.
	So I went in and I looked around and...
	It just almost made me vibrate because as I looked around, it just was everything was diabetes inducing.
	I mean, like when you walk in and it just welcomes you with nothing but crap food, Mike.
	And you know how Walmart works, how they negotiate with their vendors.
	I do from a different life is the vendors end up figuring ways to still be able to make money, but it's by lowering quality and costs.
	Right.
	Cutting corners, cutting quantities, etc.
	You know that one guy who made that documentary to where he ate McDonald's for 30 days and it just did horrible things to him?
	Yeah, and I think he just died, by the way.
	I think he did too.
	Yeah.
	And I wonder if somebody who always ate healthy, went to, you know, organic food stores or whatever, if they just ate from Walmart for 30 days, I wonder if it would do the same thing.
	I'm dead serious.
	It's just crap food.
	But also, giving credit to Walmart, they do also have organic produce.
	Is it really, though?
	That's where I get suspicious.
	No, look, let me say something in defense of Walmart's supply chain, if you don't mind.
	I mean, it seems weird.
	I'm not a fan of Walmart, but we want to be honest about this.
	There's two things I know about Walmart.
	The certified organic food that they have is legit organic, yes.
	And secondly, and I know this because I have a food science lab, and...
	I've had experts in my lab who have been in Walmart's lab.
	And Walmart has a massive mass spec laboratory.
	And Walmart is one of the few retailers in the world that tests all of their products for lead.
	Okay.
	And including, I don't know if you know this, but like children's shirts, when they have red ink on them or cups that have red ink, a lot of times that red ink is heavily laced with lead.
	And Walmart has a program where they take everything that they're going to sell and they dissolve it in nitric acid or hydrochloric acid, whatever, and then they test it for lead and that way they know they're never going to get sued for lead exposure.
	And then they enhance the safety of their products.
	Now, again, I only know this because we have a food lab.
	We do this for all our food products, lead, cadmium, mercury.
	But Walmart does it for bicycles and shirts and shoes for children.
	Okay.
	They don't want children exposed to lead.
	So you've got to give them credit for doing...
	I stand down.
	I stand down.
	I anticipated it was the alternative to where they were just in it for the buck, and the lower the prices, the lower the quality.
	So I'm happy to be wrong on that, Mike.
	Well, I'm not saying that everything at Walmart is the highest quality product, but what I'm saying is you can know with confidence you're not going to have lead exposure from Walmart.
	Well, I just like the fact knowing that their organic food is certified organic.
	So that's helpful.
	Yeah, that's legit.
	But I do want to mention, you know, the USDA organic program does not require testing for lead itself.
	So if you're a farmer and you're certified organic, all it means is you're not allowed to use synthetic pesticides, herbicides, and so on in the production of the food.
	The organic certification does not cover the final product.
	The final product could have glyphosate in it if it drifted over from a neighboring field.
	Sure, right.
	And you don't have to test it for glyphosate or pesticides or lead or mercury.
	Right.
	So that's why we test everything additionally, and Walmart does, because the USDA program only guarantees a process, not an end result.
	And The FDA screwed with your toothpaste.
	That really ticks me off because I need a reorder.
	Are you out?
	Are you out of our toothpaste?
	I have eight containers still left, but those eight, my wife loves it too.
	I'm just getting sad, Mike.
	I just know that there's going to be a day and I'm going to have to say, I have to go back to the other stuff.
	Todd, I've got good news for you.
	Yesterday I just tried a sample of a new in-house formulation that we're creating for toothpaste.
	Okay!
	Now we're cooking with gas!
	Yeah, we're doing our own formulation.
	We're going to be manufacturing our own toothpaste in-house.
	It's not the same.
	It's not exactly the same.
	Okay.
	It's very, very good, but slightly different.
	For example, we put a lot more anise and a lot more cinnamon oil in it, so it's a little spicier.
	Okay.
	And the texture feels just a little bit different and I asked them to reduce the suds factor because as you may notice that the toothpaste we had before was pretty high suds like it would foam up a lot.
	You noticed that?
	I never noticed that, but all I noticed is my teeth literally have never felt so clean, and when I went for my six-month checkup, I think I shared on a prior show that they were impressed.
	They wanted to know what I was doing differently.
	That's awesome.
	Yeah.
	That's awesome.
	Well, the sudsing factor comes from coconut oil.
	There's a coconut oil extract that provides that.
	I just asked them to reduce it a little bit.
	That's all.
	Okay.
	Anyway, we will get you some new toothpaste.
	I'm excited.
	Thank you, Mike.
	Thank you.
	I can pull myself out of the throes of depression.
	Yeah, and of course, it's fluoride-free.
	Oh, did you see the breaking news that the Fluoride Action Network won that major court case?
	It just happened.
	It's been seven years in the making.
	the court ordered the EPA must now regulate fluoride in the water, taking into account the risk factor of fluoride lowering IQs of children.
	In other words, they can no longer just dump fluoride into the water supply everywhere across the nation, which is a way to get rid of chemical waste products, by the way, because fluoride comes with all these other waste products.
	They just call it fluoride.
	They dump it in the water.
	They just poison everybody.
	Those days are coming to an end.
	Major victory.
	Wow.
	Wow.
	The attorney, I think is Michael Conant, I think is his name.
	Can we get him on?
	Yeah, we're going to have fun.
	Good.
	Good.
	That's awesome.
	Yeah.
	Oh, I love hearing that.
	The worm may be turning, Mike.
	Well, the fluoride is coming out of the water, at least at the higher levels.
	But you know what I say, Todd?
	Anybody drinking tap water needs to have their head examined anyway.
	Yeah, no kidding.
	No kidding.
	It's like, what?
	You trust, like, government-piped water?
	Are you kidding me?
	It's so gross.
	There's a reason why water is more expensive than a gallon, good water, than a gallon of gasoline, because it doesn't kill you.
	I almost would rather drink a gallon of gasoline.
	So, Mike, I just want to know, and this was not set up, everyone, but I just want people to know about it, please.
	But can you give us the URL to your church?
	Oh, wow.
	Yeah, thank you for that.
	Actually, I've got something to mention to you about the church.
	So, yeah, I'm in the process of launching a new church.
	It's called Abundance.Church.
	And I've got now 60 sermons published about foods and nutrition and also incoming comet impacts mentioned in the book of Revelation, which is freaking people out.
	Once you see that, you can't unsee it.
	But, you know, Todd, something really interesting is, Yeah.
	As we're forming our church and we're going through the process of the documentation and opening bank accounts and so on, we got back the non-profit federal tax ID for the church that's necessary to open the bank accounts.
	And we're in the process of opening bank accounts.
	Guess what designation the church has?
	Tell me.
	575E. Wow.
	Yes.
	It came back, 575E. Hey Mike, you know what my website is?
	Tell me.
	My575E.com.
	Tell us about it.
	Tell us about it.
	Because I was like, wow, this is Todd's work.
	Yeah, it's a powerful designation.
	It is a powerful designation.
	And I have to tell you, since we've been talking about the new website, my575e.com, Mike, there has been no less than a dozen new UNA operators who have come from this show.
	And I will tell you what I love most is, you know, we always have PC and NPC talk.
	There's not one NPC in the lot of them.
	These people are just intellectually curious.
	Internally decentralized believers that anything that we can do to get out from underneath centralized control their game.
	And it's just been a real joy to meet our viewers.
	Because when people go through the process, they either have questions or they get their UNA, and then I invite them into our private telegram group called UNA Biz, and they meet everybody, all these other like-minded people, and then we war game.
	And it's so cool because you know, because you just opened up a bank account with your 575E. Which that's kind of the part to where you get a little bit nervous and stuff.
	But once you do that, then your job is done.
	You just enjoy this entity for the rest of your life and all of the tax advantages that come with it and property advantage.
	Go ahead.
	Let me give out your website again, my575e.com.
	That's your site.
	Here we're showing it on screen.
	And people can go there and just click the button and you can learn about that structure.
	But back to my church, what's really interesting to me is, some people know this, some people don't, but under published IRS code and federal law, Yeah.
	related income.
	Yep.
	Now, if a church goes out and, let's say, buys an oil field and then has oil revenue that's unrelated to the church, then yeah, the church would file a tax return on that and would pay regular income tax on that.
	But for normal church business and church functions, churches are not taxed.
	And in addition, the 508C1A designation of the IRS tax code says that not only do churches not file tax returns, churches are not responsible for filing any origination documents with the federal government.
	And on top of that, the government cannot request an audit of the church's finances.
	And the church is a 575E. Yep.
	And just interesting that 575E, the E means exempt.
	And that transports over to the entity that I help people acquire.
	Same rules exist.
	It's a little more accessible because you do not have to publish 100 sermons to get the designation.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, you know, launching a church is not a small deal.
	No, not at all.
	But I admire what you've been doing with yours and the content.
	It's amazing.
	And when you say you have 60 that you've recorded, that tells me, because weren't you on track to where the last one was going to be around the time of election?
	Are we getting that close?
	We are right around 40 days to the election.
	Yeah.
	I think I'll have my 100th sermon published maybe the day before or two days before the election.
	Yeah.
	That is mind-numbing that it's coming up this quickly.
	It is mind-blowing.
	But hey, let me mention that the church...
	The church is called the Church of Natural Abundance, and my church focuses actually on foods and superfoods and the molecules that are in foods that are mentioned in the Bible specifically.
	But beyond that, it's the idea that God creates amazing medicine in foods.
	Now, interestingly, I haven't yet covered meat before.
	Even though throughout the Bible people are eating lamb, people are eating sheep, and what have you.
	But I haven't focused on meat, I just focus on plants.
	Because that's a very rich world of phytonutrients and phytonutrients.
	Sure it is.
	But, you know, just related to our guest today...
	In biblical times, people were eating food that was far more nutritious than the shadow food of what our modern world gets.
	And so mankind likes to brag about all this progress, like, we're so advanced, and now we have factories that can make this and that.
	No, you're eating a shadow of the food that Moses ate.
	Yes, that's right.
	You know, they had better food thousands of years ago than what you have today.
	They did.
	And I don't believe in the Old Testament, at least, that there is a book of McDonald's.
	But when you do start covering meat, Mike, I just have to direct you a little bit, okay?
	The Old Testament hammers.
	Pork.
	Okay?
	You don't eat it.
	God said don't eat it.
	But then you have to, in the New Testament, to counterbalance that, after Jesus Christ appeared and became our Savior, he also saved bacon.
	Because go to the Apostle Paul and look on how he preaches about Pork.
	Post-Jesus.
	And he'll make everybody feel a little better.
	We're not going to hell for consuming bacon.
	Because bacon is its own food group, Mike.
	Well, yeah, that's what I love about some of Paul's letters, is that he said, you are free from the old restrictions.
	Welcome to the new world of the Christ world, where he says you can eat all of God's foods as long as you give blessing to God.
	So bacon is totally okay with Jesus.
	Bacon for Jesus, that's my next bumper sticker.
	Yeah, no, it's true.
	I think even one of the letters that Paul wrote, I think, in 1 Corinthians, he even said, if I'm remembering correctly, he even said that The animals that are sacrificed to the Roman gods and the other gods, the non-Christian gods, if you want to eat those animals, that's okay too, as long as you give thanks to God, and you don't want to waste the food.
	Right.
	Right.
	So, now, I don't have any animals that have been sacrificed to the Roman gods.
	But if I did, I wouldn't be afraid, you know, to eat the meat of those animals, not that there's any Roman temples around.
	Yeah, you don't have to worry about being crucified for bacon.
	No, no.
	Maybe soy bacon.
	You could be crucified for eating the soy bacon.
	Yes, and should be.
	The fake bacon, the shadow bacon.
	And should be.
	See, everybody?
	We're almost done.
	We're in the latter part of the after party, and we've totally derailed this wonderful Joel Salatin interview.
	Sorry, Joel.
	We love you.
	Sorry, Joel.
	We always get off track here.
	This is what happens during the happy hour of the show.
	But anyway, look, this is all related.
	It is.
	I think God wants humanity to be able to keep more of what they earn.
	I do too.
	I do too.
	You know, it says give unto Caesar, but there's a difference between, I have to say this, tax evasion and tax avoidance.
	Tax evasion, bad.
	Tax avoidance, good.
	And tax avoidance is lawfully keeping more of what you earn because there are ways out there to be able to do it that are accessible to you and me.
	And that I found, Mike, with my consultations and helping people with these is the biggest thing.
	People are so under the spell that they can't fathom that they can actually have so many tax advantages and not be doing something wrong.
	You know, and it's so great to help break their spell.
	Let me also mention I'm quite certain that under the structure that you are sharing with people, the 575E, that it can hold assets like gold.
	And show my screen, if you would, to my producers.
	Gold today, $2,673.
	Gold briefly crossed $2,700 in the gold futures, by the way.
	And here's what's amazing.
	Did you know, friends, that if you hold gold and as gold is going up in value, that you legally do not owe any tax whatsoever on that gold until even under IRS rules until you sell it or realize the gain in two dollars that you legally do not owe any tax whatsoever on that gold until But if you hold gold and it's just going up and up and up and you're gaining dollar value in the gold.
	No matter where you have that gold, buried in the backyard, in a vault or whatever, or held by a 575E, that is not a taxable event just because gold is going up in value.
	It's not.
	No, that would be called an unrealized gain.
	Unrealized gain.
	And if people don't get their voting right, that could be part of our future.
	Unrealized gains could be part of our future, and that's why we have to be paying attention, Mike.
	Yes, there is one party that wants to tax unrealized gains.
	Yes, certain cackling parties.
	But even that, I would tell people that when you protect your assets in a 575E, there is a hedge of protection around that, even if such a law came into existence, because your social security number, you would no longer own that asset.
	An entity would, of which you are the shepherd of it, making decisions.
	Yes, you are the financial steward, the shepherd of those assets that are in your UNA. And there's just amazing protections, as you know, Mike, because you studied it very long and hard before your church.
	And the law has just stood the test of time for over 50 years.
	Very powerful.
	That's really extraordinary.
	I also want to bring in, since we're mentioning gold and silver, if you don't mind, gold is skyrocketing right now.
	And I want to bring in, I just want to mention here on rangerdeals.com, we've got some sponsors that help support our platform.
	We've got the Prepper Bars here.
	You can save 10%.
	Here's the discount code.
	Just click shop.
	We've got Goldbacks, which I have...
	Here.
	Oh, look.
	Got a fresh stack in my hands right here.
	Let me see.
	We can't see.
	We're seeing the screen.
	There we go.
	They're shifting it there.
	There you go.
	A fresh stack of goldbacks.
	Yeah.
	Nice.
	Because I keep giving these away.
	When people come in the studio, I give them...
	I'm giving them stacks of gold now.
	That's your hate.
	It's like, hey, spread the joy.
	Everybody loves gold.
	But that's it, rangerdeals.com.
	And then we've got here the Treasure Island Coins and Precious Metals Company, which sells traditional gold and silver.
	And then one more thing that we've got that's coming up, and I think you will want to see this.
	If you go to brightu.com, we have a new course coming up that starts streaming October 12th.
	It's called Financial Survival.
	And we've interviewed Andy Sheckman, and we've interviewed David Dubine, we've interviewed some other leaders there, and we have a great docu-series there.
	So it's free to watch, optionally purchased, but you can watch it for free.
	That's at brightu.com.
	Hey Mike, do you know we've been at this, I venture to guess we're probably going to be approaching a year and a half soon, but do you know when we first started doing this together, gold was just over $1,900 I believe.
	Is that right?
	Because I remember I had just acquired it.
	So, wow, from $1,900 to $2,700 nearly.
	For what, 15 months, 18 months?
	Yeah.
	Well, that obliterates the argument that people, I've heard people say, I don't want to buy gold because I want my money to work for me.
	So they put it in stocks or something.
	I'm like, have you done the math on this?
	Because if you just put it in gold, it outperforms the stock market.
	And some take self-custody, and gosh darn it, Mike, if I didn't go through a little bit of Alzheimer's experience, I forgot where I buried it.
	Did you?
	I think you buried it under your food forest.
	No, no.
	No, I didn't.
	I did not put it under that piece tree.
	It's not under the banana tree?
	Golden bananas?
	Hey, these bananas taste like gold.
	What's going on?
	You eat them, you get gold teeth.
	That's where you don't want a dog that digs.
	You can be a rapper with your gold banana teeth.
	Right.
	With your gold grill.
	Sean Diddley Combs.
	Sorry.
	Don't go there.
	No, he is starring in a new series called Diddler on the Roof, though.
	It's a musical number.
	Sorry, Joel.
	The longer this goes on, the worse it's going to get.
	It's going into full Jeffrey Epstein territory.
	Is there anything else you want to say before we wrap this up?
	No, Mike.
	Before we cause more trouble.
	I think let's quit while we're ahead.
	Yeah, let's quit while our commentary is still legal.
	Right, right.
	Before it goes into some crazy territory.
	Mike, you know, you and I know other people don't know because of when we publish and such, but just because of life, it's been two weeks since you and I have done one of these.
	I'm just telling you, it's good to see you whenever we come back, Mike.
	Hey, you too.
	It's always good to see you.
	And also, by the way, on the day we're recording, you're getting hit by a storm in Florida.
	I am.
	I am.
	So are you all good?
	Yeah, Tampa, which is where I live, dodged a bullet again.
	Seems like we dodged a lot of them, knock on wood.
	It's unfortunately going to head up to the curve within Florida, which Tallahassee, I think, is just going to get absolutely hammered, and it's going to go up through Valdosta and Atlanta and such.
	And so it's pretty big and pretty nasty, but thankfully...
	Oh, they did?
	Hurricane Hell?
	Hellena, or Hell for short.
	Right.
	I mean, they named the storm Hell.
	Well, we did get a couple of outer bands that were really, really nasty.
	Wow.
	So I couldn't imagine.
	And it's 150 miles offshore.
	So it's a big boy.
	It's a big boy.
	Well, I was checking the wind speeds from the NOAA last night, and it said that there will be over 100 mile an hour wind speeds on the coast.
	Yep.
	Yep.
	Can you imagine?
	Yep.
	I can.
	Plus with rain in it, you know, like highly dense, humid water.
	What people don't realize, and I've lived through it, is, and this is why I got a full house generator, is when your power goes out and you have those hundred mile winds hammering you and the rain is literally blowing sideways.
	Yeah.
	When you do not have air conditioning in late August, early September, it's not as simple as saying, hey, let's get some circulation here.
	Let's open the windows because that rain is coming at 90 degree angle to your house.
	So it is literally a sauna for days.
	Oh, it's horrible.
	Just horrible.
	Never again.
	That's why, you know, screw the green cash.
	Give me a whole house generator.
	So what fuel does your whole house generator use?
	Propane.
	And you've got enough propane on site?
	Yes, I do.
	For a week and a half.
	Okay, cool.
	All right.
	So you're going to be set.
	And also, by the way, in Florida, homes without electricity grow mold.
	Right.
	Like crazy.
	Yeah.
	True.
	That's bad, also.
	Right.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	I tell you, remember the hurricane that hit down south down in Naples and such?
	I drive to Miami every once in a while, often actually, and I drive down through there.
	It decimated that area down there.
	Really?
	I mean, there are such beautiful areas that to this day just look like dilapidated areas.
	Just ghost towns of themselves.
	You know, if I lived in Florida, now, granted, this is a very expensive thing to do, but I wonder, why don't more people build concrete homes?
	Because they can handle 200 mile an hour winds, you know?
	Right, right.
	But it is very expensive to do that, but I'm just wondering, I mean, I've seen photos of, like, one concrete home left standing in a neighborhood that's decimated of regular homes.
	Yeah.
	I think you would have to, it depends.
	Like, the real estate that is anywhere near the coast is so expensive anyway.
	Yeah.
	So I'm sure that most people, most people, if they are able to afford, you know, they have the budget to acquire a home, it's probably not going to be one that they tear down and rebuild with concrete, you know, because the homes are really nice anyway.
	True.
	But they're going to die one day.
	Well, yeah, but when the next storm comes through and wipes it out, then is your chance to build a concrete home instead of the regular...
	Like, why do people keep building the same wooden stick homes that keep getting blown down?
	Good point.
	And you know what?
	So many insurance companies are leaving the state.
	They're just not insuring anything coastal Florida.
	So I think that's probably right.
	Somebody comes in, they buy a home, they're like, eh, I'm not going to get homeowner's insurance because it's going to get blown away anyway.
	Right.
	I would build a concrete home and I would have no insurance.
	Right.
	On purpose.
	Because, number one, it can't burn.
	Yep.
	Right?
	Concrete doesn't burn.
	No.
	Secondly, it's impervious to normal hurricane winds, even at Category 5.
	That's right.
	And thirdly, if there's an act of war that destroys a concrete home, your insurance isn't going to cover that anyway.
	That's true.
	Because they don't cover acts of war.
	Like, if you get nuked...
	That's true.
	You know, you're gone anyway.
	Yeah.
	Unless, like, see, I'm smart, Mike.
	My grandpa in the 70s told me that I needed to practice getting under a school desk to be able to, if there is a nuclear war, and put my hands over my head.
	So every one of my rooms in my house has one of those little four, you know, more legged school desk.
	So you can get under it.
	Because I'm a prepper.
	That's real preparedness right there, yeah.
	I remember those drills too.
	All right, Todd, we've covered a lot today.
	We've had some fun.
	This has been great.
	I love our guest.
	And what he teaches is really, really valuable wisdom for humanity.
	So anything else you want to add before we wrap this up?
	No, but I can dig the name Polly Face.
	You know, many faces to run a ranch.
	That's pretty cool.
	That's paying homage to the people that make it all happen.
	And I really think that's cool.
	I learned something today.
	Could it also refer to the faces of the cows?
	It could.
	Because they have faces.
	They do.
	Wow, you're breaking my brain now.
	No, because, I mean, I see cows a lot.
	Chickens have faces.
	Yeah.
	So...
	Could it be that every time you eat a hamburger, you're like, this also had a face?
	Yeah, and now he does have a competitor out there on the West Coast near San Francisco.
	It's polybuttsfarms.com.
	Oh, that's so bad.
	I think we need to be polygone.
	There you go.
	That's perfect.
	You should quit there.
	Yeah.
	This is going to just deteriorate faster than music executives resigning after the P. Diddy arrest.
	Let's do that.
	All right.
	Anyway, Todd, this has been a great show.
	A lot of fun.
	Thank you for your time today.
	God bless you.
	Be safe there with the storm.
	And keep us posted.
	All right.
	Everybody, thank you for watching.
	Thank you for continuing to view.
	And hang in there with us through all of our craziness.
	Cheers.
	That's right.
	All right, everybody, take care.
	Thanks for watching today.
	Check out all the other episodes at decentralize.tv.
	You don't want to miss them.
	I'm Mike Adams with brighttown.com and Todd Pittner, the co-host.
	Thank you for joining us today.

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