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Jan. 24, 2024 - Health Ranger - Mike Adams

01:34:41

Episode 31, Jan 24, 2024 - Tayler McCracken from Coin Bureau talks crypto ETFs, self-custody and...

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	Get him, get him, get him, get him, yeah, get him, get him. Get him, get him, get him, get him, get him. Get him, get him, get him.
	All right.
	Yes.
	Good boy.
	Welcome to today's episode of Decentralized TV.
	here on brightiana.com, the uncensored video platform.
	I'm Mike Adams, and I'm joined today, as always, by my co-host, Todd Pitner.
	Welcome, Todd.
	Great to have you on the show with me today.
	Greetings, greetings, greetings.
	Missed you again.
	You know, it's been a long week.
	Yeah, I know.
	I know.
	And we always have such fun.
	And I really want to thank you for your idea of us having like a little funny intro at the beginning of every show.
	We're doing that now for every show.
	We have to do something to put to good use our after parties because the content is just too good.
	And maybe some people don't hang in there through it all.
	And that might entice them.
	And I think overall, you know, we just have fun doing this because this is a fun topic to talk about, you know, cryptocurrency or decentralized technology and empowering people with solutions.
	And I got to say, our guest today is someone who teaches people how to do that every single day.
	He's one of the top writers at CoinBureau.com.
	His name is Taylor McCracken, and he joins us today for a detailed interview about finance and crypto.
	Welcome, Taylor.
	Hey, thanks, guys.
	Thanks, Todd and Mike, for inviting me on the show.
	Yeah, looking forward to being here.
	It's always a fun topic to talk about, like you guys intro'd.
	Absolutely, it is.
	And I gotta say, Todd and I are both big fans of Coin Bureau, so you're with a really great group there covering this topic.
	Yeah, I mean, I love the Coin Bureau.
	You know, I've been there for just about four years now, and I was a fan of the channel before I started working there.
	And I've had the pleasure of starting off as a writer and researcher, and now I'm the editor-in-chief over at CoinBureau.com.
	So, for anybody who's not familiar, we do have the biggest YouTube channel where we talk about crypto and blockchain technology.
	I think kind of what sets us apart from our competitors and most of the other channels is we actually take a very shill-free approach.
	So we're more focused on education and information, right?
	So that's kind of where we placed our stake in the ground.
	That's great.
	Shill-free content.
	That should be a label.
	Right there.
	I like that.
	You're right.
	It should be mandatory.
	Yeah, well, absolutely.
	Now, and I want to mention the elephant in the room, which is actually the two elephants in the room, which is us two older guys.
	Okay, so we are older than the typical crypto person right now.
	But in our defense, and in our audience's defense, more and more people of every age are getting turned on to the benefits of self custody, and sometimes privacy coins, if that's their choice.
	But just, they're not trusting the traditional banking system anymore.
	Are you seeing that in your coverage over at Coin Bureau as well?
	Without a doubt.
	I mean, there's been clear trends, and you can find this in Google Trends.
	We can find it in our YouTube viewers, subscribers, website hits, that over time, it's been quite the exponential curve up and to the right for people who are looking into crypto.
	You know, you mentioned the age thing, and one of my favorite memories about educating people in Bitcoin was actually my girlfriend's grandfather, 86 years old, and sits me down one day and he's like, tell me about this Bitcoin thing.
	And it was a pretty cool moment in my career where I actually helped her grandfather buy his first, well, not in full Bitcoin, but, you know, chucked $100 in there.
	And what was interesting is he was actually just so enthralled by the technology and just what it means, right?
	Just kind of as a hedge against centralization.
	And throughout his time, you know, being in his late 80s, he's seen a lot of history go down, a lot of bank failures, a lot of economic turmoil.
	And so as soon as I kind of explained it to him, you know, in very non-technical terms, he just got it.
	Within five minutes, he was orange-pilled, you know?
	So, yeah, definitely.
	It's a trend that's growing.
	And as of today, we had the Bitcoin ETF.
	So I don't think it could be stopped.
	You know, it's now about as mainstream as it gets.
	I want to talk about that for sure.
	I think that's the big breaking news for us here.
	But Todd, you want to jump in?
	Is there anything?
	Yeah, I'd love to just share something that I shared with you yesterday, Mike.
	You mentioned that you had a guy, you know, your grandfather's in his 80s and his get it factor.
	I have a website called decentralizeddirectory.com, and I do some consulting for some people.
	And this gentleman reached out to me, and he booked an hour with me.
	And he's an 84-year-old wonderful man, just has a great sense of humor.
	And he was sharing with me.
	He goes, you know, I need some help.
	I'm a techno.
	I think he used the word idiot.
	I can't quite remember, but he was not technically savvy.
	And he said, but, you know, I was listening to you and Mike, and it just kind of reminded me that I got involved in crypto or something back in 2016.
	And I went to my Coinbase.
	I remembered it was Coinbase, and I looked in my little book, and I had some login credentials, and I got in there, and I invested $300 in Bitcoin...
	It was a Bitcoin club or Bitcoin network club.
	That's what it was.
	It is now defunct because when he first told me that, I did a little research and it was like a Ponzi scam thing and it was defunct.
	So I told him, look, you know what we need to do because he logged in and Taylor We're good to go.
	I told the Lord that his wife was technically savvy to do a copy and paste.
	I love him, but he couldn't figure that out, how to copy and paste a received Bitcoin address.
	So I sent him my received Bitcoin address, and we just did a really, really tiny transaction.
	I thought you were going to say you emptied his wallet to your wallet.
	Disclosure here, it's why we love Bitcoin and crypto is you can send tiny amounts.
	But anyway, it went through and I said, congratulations, you have $125,000 worth of crypto assets.
	Now we need to help you figure out how to get it into your own custody.
	But that was just a great, great, feel good moment for me.
	It was so cool.
	Wow.
	That's amazing.
	Really powerful.
	And I'm sure you see that all the time, Taylor, with, again, people of all ages gaining knowledge and competency in this.
	And let's talk about the ETF now, because this is going to open up Bitcoin to a lot of institutional investors who don't actually have to have the technical knowledge of wallets and self-custody, even though we always advise self-custody.
	For some people, maybe they don't want to do that.
	What's the significance of this in your view?
	Yeah, so you definitely brought up a good point.
	I think a lot of us who have been around the crypto space for a while actually forget how alien and unfamiliar the process of self-custody is.
	Thinking back to the first time I set up a crypto wallet or any of us, it's a strange process and it's something that doesn't exist in Web2.
	The whole process of writing down recovery phrases and for anybody who's used MetaMask, I mean, it's weird to have that little fox pop up on your screen asking you to verify transactions.
	I've often said it's going to come down to use cases and not technology that's going to drive crypto adoption.
	And the average person on the street has no interest in having to take self-custody of their funds, learning how hardware wallets work, software wallets, you name it.
	And I think there's You know, I'm with you guys.
	I do always recommend self custody for those who are able, but at the end of the day, not everybody's capable or even willing or wanting to do it.
	And of course, I'm talking about people who are just not tech savvy or even people who travel a lot.
	I mean, with this growing digital nomad movement and remote work and stuff, if you're on the road all the time living out of a backpack, it might not be the best idea to be carrying around your crypto wallets with you.
	We've seen Quite an increase in what we call $5 rent tax as well, where people are being physically threatened for the crypto that they hold on the wallets on their phone.
	So I do think with these ETFs, it's going to open up just a wider array of people who are able to invest in something familiar.
	Everybody knows what ETFs are.
	Most people have them in their investment portfolios already.
	So it's just another click of a button in their favorite brokerage site.
	Well, I guess just breaking down the barriers of entry that do exist with self-custody.
	Taylor, I agree with everything you just said.
	I want to ask you a question about this, the whole ETF ecosystem that's being opened up right now.
	It seems to me that a lot of people are then just going to enter as speculators, but not users of the coin.
	This is a big issue that we talk about on this show.
	We want to use crypto in day-to-day transactions.
	We want more merchants to take the coins.
	We want to have utility.
	Because at the end of the day, if everybody's just speculating, Then, you know, it's kind of a Ponzi situation.
	If nobody's using it and everybody's buying it, it's like tulip bulbs, right?
	And we don't want that because the technology is so useful when people use it.
	So do you think that this ETF is just going to – is it a positive thing in that more people get involved?
	Or is there a negative side that it's going to create a bubble of people who just want to jump in but don't know what to do with it?
	You're definitely right.
	I've always taken a viewpoint kind of a bit tongue-in-cheek that Bitcoin's followers are quite bipolar because you've got two very different camps of people.
	And one of the beautiful things about Bitcoin is it is what you want it to be.
	Some people, they feel it's a store of value.
	They're going to buy it and hold it forever.
	Other people, they want to use it as a peer-to-peer payment method, right?
	So they want to use it for payments.
	And some people hold it just as, I said, investments.
	So the people who are going to be jumping into this ETF, you're right, they're not going to be using Bitcoin for its true intended purposes.
	They're just going to be holding it and hoping it appreciates in value.
	So I think for the true Bitcoin cypherpunk community, the people who originally started it, this ETF was probably the worst event in Bitcoin's history, right?
	Because this is basically the antithesis of why Bitcoin was created in the first place.
	So, Bitcoin was basically created as an alternative financial system, right?
	And now that Wall Street has adopted it, it's just basically become another tool for Wall Street investment firms.
	So, in that sense, I do agree that it certainly goes against the true ethos of crypto, but at the same time, anybody who holds Bitcoin as an investable asset, this is Quite a large net positive for them.
	But yeah, so there's kind of two different ways of looking at Bitcoin, right?
	Is it this peer-to-peer ethos for the reason it was created or is it just a big get-rich-quick investable asset now?
	Well, and my concern, and I'm sorry, Todd, if you'll allow me to jump in, I'll turn it back over to you after this, but my concern is that this increases centralization because you'll have bigger whales, which will be those who run the ETFs, right?
	And that they can move markets with their size and power in ways that are not accessible to the small, distributed, local self-custody holder.
	And, you know, the whole point of decentralization is to put power back into the hands of the people.
	You know, that's the cypherpunk movement part of it, at least in a nutshell, right there.
	So is this a concern that you've covered as well?
	I mean, big time, this is about as centralized as it can get, right?
	And I've also often had concerns as well about how centralized Bitcoin has become.
	So it does face a lot of criticism from mining.
	Obviously, Bitcoin mining has become greatly centralized.
	And then you get major players like Michael Saylor, who now holds so much Bitcoin.
	And a lot of people think that Bitcoin is going to be this asset that's going to hit a million dollars in value someday.
	And if that happens, then a single holder like Michael Saylor and his company MicroStrategy, they're going to have more money than basically entire nation states around the world, right?
	Exactly.
	Exactly.
	So it's become hugely centralized.
	And this problem is being exacerbated with the CTF because, yeah, now we've got the Vanguard, the Fidelities and the Black Rocks.
	They're going to be holding the majority of the Bitcoin supply.
	So I do think this really reduces Bitcoin's viability as a decentralized payment network.
	I think it's probably crushed the cypherpunk movement.
	And I think it's really going to steer Bitcoin's narrative further towards just an investable asset and a store of value.
	I don't know if we're ever going to see a time now where it's going to become a viable payment method.
	I mean, we've got things like the Lightning Network that are pushing to that end for sure.
	But yeah, I mean, this has certainly thrown a curveball in why Bitcoin was developed in the first place.
	Well, Todd, you want to jump in?
	I'm really happy I have Monero at this point because I need a coin that I can use.
	Yeah, I think put a fork in BTC for the purposes that we all love and know crypto.
	I believe that this is going to really pave the path for other crypto assets, specifically the privacy coins.
	And I know, Taylor, that you're a big fan of privacy coins.
	And specifically, you wrote an article on Mimblewimble.
	Can you share with our audience a little bit about Mimblewimble and why you like it?
	Absolutely.
	So I'm going to be honest with you, Todd.
	That was about probably two years ago now I wrote that article, so I should have refreshed myself on it.
	But I mean, what originally attracted me to Mimblewimble was certainly the privacy-preserving features.
	So it caught my attention when it was bolted on to the Litecoin network.
	And I've always been a fan of Litecoin, to be honest, and I kind of get made fun of a bit.
	For that within the crypto community, because a lot of people, Litecoin is seen as a bit of a joke or like a testnet to Bitcoin.
	But, you know, back in 2019 and 2018, I really enjoyed Litecoin as a peer-to-peer payment method, right?
	So I always held Bitcoin as gold.
	And I was like, well, I'm not going to spend Bitcoin because it's too valuable, but I'll spend Litecoin.
	So for me, Litecoin was my cash.
	And then when Mimblewimble rolled out, I was like, well, fantastic.
	I mean, if you can create A more privacy-preserving aspect into what should be a peer-to-peer payment method, then I'm like, I'm all for that.
	Because the viability of using cryptocurrency for payments, if it's not private, is a bit of a moot point, right?
	Like, if you go to the bar and order a milkshake, you don't want the bartender knowing exactly how much you have in your bank account, right?
	And that's the problem with Bitcoin is, Todd, if I send you Bitcoin, you can look up my Bitcoin wallet address, you can see how much I've got.
	Yeah.
	So financial privacy, as you guys well know, is a fundamental aspect of societies, I believe, which is why there are these concerns about going towards a cashless society and things like that.
	But yeah, so I love the technology behind Mimblewimble and what it was actually creating.
	And I know that there was some speculation in the early days about, will Bitcoin adopt Mimblewimble?
	It's highly unlikely I can't see it happening.
	And Nimblewimble hasn't gained the traction that I wished it would.
	And I think the reason for that is because in crypto, we have such a bad habit of what I call shiny syndrome, right?
	Every week, there's something new, there's something sexy, there's something exciting.
	And people don't care, you know, about what was released a year ago or two years ago.
	And it doesn't really matter how innovative or advanced it is.
	People are going to be chasing the next Solana or the next Bonk coin or, you know, whatever the new kid on the block is.
	Well, Taylor, thank you for that answer.
	And in my opinion, but I like your response to this and from what Todd said, I think that this ETF approval of Bitcoin really does actually increase the divide now between mainstream Bitcoin versus the parallel ecosystem of privacy crypto coins. I think that this ETF approval of Bitcoin really does I think that chasm is wider now.
	Now, both of them have their use cases, as you've alluded to.
	But for full disclosure, on this show, we have covered, we've interviewed people from Xano, Epic Cash with MembleWimble, Beam, which also uses MembleWimble, Firo, that's Rubin, and then also, of course, Monero.
	I think those are all the privacy coins that we've covered.
	Particle.
	Oh, and Particle, too.
	Yes, thank you.
	And we have found that there's a lot more innovation in the privacy crypto space, whereas in our view, at least, I mean, we might get hell from the Bitcoin community for this, but Bitcoin is really stagnant as a technology.
	I mean, it's not stacked in terms of its acceptance, but as tech, you know, it's like somebody hit the freeze button, you know, 12 years ago or something.
	Whereas, you know, privacy coins, you know, you've got like a full membership proofs being looked at for Monero and things like that.
	A lot of innovation, even Epic Cash is working on some kind of like offline transaction capability with a variant of Mimble Wimble.
	I mean, this is where the innovation is happening.
	Do you see that or what are your comments on that, Taylor?
	I do see that to a degree.
	I do agree that innovation seems to have stagnated on Bitcoin.
	I mean, there are some really interesting projects like Stacks that's building on Bitcoin.
	And I am hopeful that there are some shining glimmers of light from builders who are wanting to build on Bitcoin blockchain.
	But the fact of the matter is Bitcoin is now ancient technology in terms of cryptography, right?
	I mean, it's There are new, faster, meaner, leaner technologies out there.
	And I have been impressed with Monero's innovation, for one.
	I mean, some of the things that they've created.
	And, you know, Monero is pretty old school as well.
	They've been around for ages.
	So the fact that they were able to develop what they did that long ago, I always find very impressive.
	But I do think as far as building an innovation is, yes, they are happening.
	But most of the interest now from what I'm seeing is actually...
	Off of proof of work networks, everything's kind of moved on to the proof of stake side of things.
	And then we see a lot of innovations with like ZK-SNARKs and what a lot of these layer twos are doing on Ethereum.
	And I think ZK-SNARK is really quite an interesting technology as well because it's, you know, building on Ethereum.
	And I'm not super technical, but I did just have the pleasure of meeting with the StarkNet team and learning a bit about what StarkNet's doing.
	And I really tip my hat off to them as well because I think Ethereum has gone down a dangerous road of centralization and basically it's going to become like an institutional coin.
	A lot of people are saying an institutional network, pardon me.
	So I do like to see projects like StarkNet and ZK Sync that are kind of trying to bring some of the privacy and anonymity features back into the Ethereum network.
	And then, of course, more often than that as well, it's not just about the privacy aspects of it and making transactions private, but we're going to have a huge uphill battle, and I'm sure you guys can appreciate this, with on-chain identities and how we can protect our identities and take control over basically our decentralized online entities, right?
	This is something that would be possible without the advent of ZK technology in general.
	Just for our audience, I just want to mention ZK means zero knowledge.
	Yes.
	So that's where you have anonymity.
	It's a mathematical proof approach that can prove that someone holds something or initiated a transaction without revealing their identity.
	Is that a good way to put it?
	Absolutely.
	Yeah, so basically what it's going to allow people to do is use the Ethereum network or whatever network without basically putting all their cards out on the table, right?
	Like we touched on how Bitcoin is...
	Fairly transparent, making it not suitable for like a payment method.
	But with the advent of blockchain technology, we're dealing with a lot more than just payment systems here, right?
	So I think zero-knowledge technology is going to be fundamental to the adoption of blockchain networks.
	And so it is just interesting to see how payment networks like Monero are handling those issues differently than projects like StarkNet and ZK Sync and what have you.
	Yeah.
	Well, absolutely.
	But what about the size of the blockchains themselves?
	Because now with ETFs opening up with Bitcoin, you're likely to see, of course, a lot more transactions taking place.
	Now, I understand all the arguments.
	Computing storage space is orders of magnitude cheaper than it was 10 years ago and so on.
	And same thing with RAM and Internet speeds are faster.
	But at some point...
	The blockchain itself, at least like the original BTC blockchain, it becomes a monster in terms of size.
	And perhaps even Monero would face the same issue if Monero became more widely adopted because it's even less efficient in terms of how much storage space is required per transaction because of the ring transactions and so on.
	But what do you think about that, Taylor?
	So you're definitely right.
	And especially with Ordinal's launching on Bitcoin, this has also caused network transaction fees to skyrocket on Bitcoin.
	I think trading is going to happen less frequently now that it's adopted as an ETF because most people are going to be buying and holding it and keeping it in their portfolios.
	So, of course, these asset managers are still going to have to be rebalancing the funds from time to time.
	But I don't think if it's not being used by the everyday average Joe as just a peer-to-peer payment method for things like buying a cup of coffee or a car or a house, then I don't know how bad the blockchain is going to get bloated.
	Ordinals are certainly an issue.
	I don't know how Bitcoin developers are going to address that issue.
	And yeah, like you said, same with Monero as well.
	A lot of these networks get a lot of stick for not being able to handle scalability and throughput, right?
	And then you always hear, well, this blockchain can address that and that blockchain can address this.
	Things like Solana, they say do it better.
	But at the end of the day, a lot of these networks have not been battle tested to the degree that Ethereum and Bitcoin have, right?
	They have not seen just the sheer throughput of transactions.
	And then we did see Solana go down a number of times in 2021 because basically it was battle-tested and then failed the test.
	And that goes with Monero.
	As much as I love Monero, I don't know if it could handle the type of transaction volume that Bitcoin does.
	And you guys mentioned Epic Cash earlier, and that is one that I do find quite interesting as well.
	I've had an eye on that for a while, and disclosure is I am a holder of Epic Cash as well.
	Yeah, so I think what they're doing with the compressed block size is we're going to need more solutions like that going forward if this technology is going to be globally adopted.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Todd, you want to jump in?
	Yeah, I would love to jump in.
	I'm a bit of a skeptic, naturally, and here's what I think is going to happen with the ETFs.
	I think we are going to enter the land of fractional reserve and rehypothecation.
	So I believe that $21 million is now a myth.
	Because you're going to have these ETFs that are going to say that they have acquired X number of Bitcoin and that you can buy a piece of those and such.
	But ultimately, we know how it works.
	That's why the exchanges, they may say, unless you hold custody, you do not hold an asset.
	Can I just also retranslate that as well, just add something to it so that the audience is perfectly clear?
	You're saying that theoretically, someone who runs an ETF, an institution, that sells you ownership of a certain number of Bitcoin, they're telling you that they're holding Bitcoin for you, but they might not,
	if they're dishonest, they could actually just, I mean, it's like a Bitcoin IOU, but they're out Maybe they've sold that same Bitcoin to somebody else, or they've used it in some highly leveraged FTX type of investment scheme that's highly illegal, and it's all going to be lost one day.
	That's what you're saying.
	It's not if, it's when.
	Okay.
	You just wait.
	I'm Tadradamus.
	You are.
	I am just telling you that greed is going to enter front and center, and everybody should just research, rehypothecation, and fractional reserve.
	And let's unpack that, you know, because...
	It's going to be very, very dangerous.
	And I present this again to be able to say that this just totally, totally pummels the notion that Bitcoin is 21 million.
	It's not.
	Now it's going to be...
	Right now, I think it's...
	Well, we won't have to go down that rabbit hole, but I think even today, right now, it's more like 60 million.
	But that's for another discussion.
	All right.
	Taylor, what's your response?
	Yeah, no, I really like that take, Todd.
	And it's something that I haven't really put a lot of thought into until just now, but actually you've got a fantastic point there.
	And I remember when I was a financial advisor, I was investing heavily into gold myself because I always kind of wanted to apocalypse-proof myself, right?
	So I think a lot of the reason why people hold precious metals is for that reason.
	And I ended up learning years ago that even gold is fractionally reserved.
	And as you alluded to, like, if you don't have the physical asset, do you really hold it?
	So maybe this could actually open up a bit of a door to people learning self-custody because I was investing in golds.
	A lot earlier than I was actually physically holding gold.
	So I've changed how I invest in gold and I now choose to self custody when possible, right?
	So perhaps if we're lucky, we can only hope that this spot Bitcoin ETF will open up people into, well, what is this Bitcoin thing?
	Let me learn more about it.
	Oh, you mean I can hold as much of this as I want on something as small as a USB drive?
	So, you know, maybe we can see this as more of a positive and it will actually incentivize people into self-custody.
	But at the end of the day, you are right.
	What are these people going to be doing with these Bitcoin holdings?
	You know, hopefully there's a lot of transparency and regulation around that.
	I would add, and thank you for that answer, but I would add, Todd, that there are accusations that exactly what you described has already taken place among some of the online exchanges, specifically with Monero, right?
	So many Monero holders came to the belief, I'm not sure what the evidence is, but they came to the belief that many of the exchanges that were holding their Monero actually did not hold that Monero.
	And I think, didn't they stage some kind of like a mass withdrawal event a few months back?
	Maybe, Taylor, did you cover that?
	I didn't cover it, but I remember reading about that.
	Yeah, it was quite the big thing, and people were demanding to know just how much Monero was actually being held on these exchanges.
	And yeah, I ended up seeing some hashtag thing on Twitter about withdrawing all your Monero from Binance and stuff.
	That was quite the thing.
	Right, and I remember that before that withdrawal day event was supposed to happen, that there was a lot of activity monitored in the aggregate.
	I'm not sure how it was monitored, being that Monero is a privacy coin, but in the aggregate, it showed that there were a lot of sudden purchases of Monero, apparently, by the exchanges, perhaps to reacquire the Monero that they claimed they had always been holding.
	I mean, it's a theory.
	I can't prove it, but that's what was out there.
	Yeah, I think the exchanges have done a great job with their proof of reserves to increase transparency.
	So for anybody who's new, kind of listening to this, is after the FTX collapsed, there was kind of a call to arms about how people wanted to know exactly what assets exchanges were holding and making sure that they actually had enough to meet all customer withdrawals should the event happen, which is something that it's funny.
	Banks don't have to do that.
	I know.
	Crypto exchanges are expected to do that, right?
	Like if you and I all went to our banks today and tried to withdraw all of our money, not a chance that we're going to get it all out, right?
	Because the banks don't hold all of our money.
	So it's kind of funny to see crypto exchanges sort of take the lead.
	You know, they're supposed to be like the Wild West bad boys of finance.
	But yet, you know, in many ways, they're a lot more transparent and forthcoming than the banks will ever be.
	So I guess it remains to be seen how these ETF managers are going to be proving reserves, if they even have to.
	I'm assuming because they're going to be heavily regulated that there's going to be some sort of checks and balances in place, but I'm not sure what that's going to look like yet.
	Can I answer that real quick?
	I need to be the guy here that says, I know that we gloss over ETF, everybody knows what it is, but I don't think everybody knows what it is.
	Can you share, because we do have some older viewers, Mike, in the audience.
	I know I speak to them regularly.
	Can you please share what ETF is and what really is happening right now, Taylor?
	I'll give it my best shot.
	So ETFs, when they were introduced, is basically the most popular ones follow a basket of assets or like an index, right?
	There's index funds, there's exchange traded funds.
	And actually, now that I'm rambling on about it, I'm quickly realizing that maybe I'm not the best person to answer this one.
	Well, I would just call it a proxy for the underlying asset.
	You know, the ETF represents the underlying asset.
	You buy the ETF and then the ETF fund claims to buy the asset and hold it, whether that's securities or gold or Bitcoin, right?
	Is that...
	Yeah, so I think with Bitcoin, the easiest way to explain it is that you and I could go out and we can buy Bitcoin on an exchange right now.
	But that involves a level of complexity, like signing up for an exchange and buying that Bitcoin.
	And what do you do with the Bitcoin?
	Do you withdraw to a wallet?
	But the fact that it's now available as an ETF basically means it's accessible through the same rails and methods as traditional financial products as well, right?
	A lot of people who have financial portfolios probably hold a myriad of ETFs that can represent different things, right?
	So it could be like oil, gold.
	It's a way of investing, say, in oil without having to go out and buy a drum of oil.
	And so this Bitcoin ETF, basically, it just provides the regulatory approval and the oversight for accredited investors and institutions and firms to be able to go out and get exposure to Bitcoin without actually having to buy it.
	Perfect.
	So it's probably the most basic way that I can explain.
	So yeah, right.
	So people who have an account on, let's say, Fidelity or Robinhood or wherever, soon they'll have like a BlackRock Bitcoin ETF show up as one of the options that they can buy.
	And it's just another click for them.
	So I looked it up.
	ETF stands for Exchange Traded Fund.
	So what people are doing, they're acquiring Bitcoin, and that is going to be in their fund.
	So you're going to be able to go to these people who are the ETFs who are trading these on their exchange, right?
	Am I getting it?
	But exchange-traded fund is what ETFs stand for.
	I actually didn't know that.
	That's a relief.
	I thought it was extraterrestrial fund the whole time.
	It was like pole-dancing aliens or something.
	Scene from the Star Wars bar.
	I don't know.
	Okay.
	No, but thanks for that clarification.
	But my question to you, Taylor, is then what about the schizophrenic SEC here?
	You know, on one hand, you have Gensler, who seems to be at war with crypto.
	And then somehow, on the other hand, now you have this approval of Bitcoin ETFs.
	I mean, this seems very suspicious to me.
	To a lot.
	To a lot of different parties.
	Yeah, to a lot of people.
	What do you think is going on?
	So this is getting very tinfoil hat here, and this is all circumstantial opinions and thoughts from myself, really.
	But there's a lot of things that have been fishy since Gary Gensler has taken the helm at the SEC. So I remember the day he was appointed as SEC chairman, there was a lot of excitement in the crypto space because prior to the SEC, Gensler actually taught blockchain at MIT, and he had nothing but positive things to say about Bitcoin and then projects like Algorand.
	So There's always been an issue with regulation clashing with Bitcoin.
	So as soon as Gensler was appointed office, everybody was like, fantastic.
	Finally, somebody in power who understands blockchain technology and will be well-suited to regulate it appropriately and from a place of intellect and hopefully integrity.
	But those assumptions quickly went south as Gensler launched an all-out war on the blockchain industry, right?
	So a lot of people, myself included, feel that Gensler has actually done more damage to the blockchain industry than all the hacks, the failed exchanges, the bankruptcies combined.
	I mean, he's effectively stifled innovation in the US through his regulation by enforcement actions, right?
	And this has caused a lot of companies to move offshore.
	And ultimately, America is falling behind in the blockchain innovation race, right?
	We've got Europe with the MICA bill that's probably leading the charge.
	China is years ahead of where America is with, I mean, rightly or wrongly, the way that they did it, that's a topic for another time.
	But America's really kind of shot themselves in the foot here, and a lot of that has been because of Gensler's actions and his hostility towards blockchain.
	So what's interesting about this BlackRock, well, it was really BlackRock, I think, that kind of tipped Gensler.
	The approval into the realms of possibility because Gensler has been shooting down ETF applications, left, right, and center.
	There's been dozens of them that he's declined.
	And all of a sudden, BlackRock comes out of the woodwork and they're like, hey, we want to launch an ETF. Now, all of a sudden, conveniently, it's within the realms of possibility.
	So BlackRock is the largest asset manager in the world.
	And it's funny, I've heard quite a few people refer to BlackRock as another arm of the government.
	And it's been reported that Larry Fink, the CEO of BlackRock, actually spends as much time in Washington, if not more, than his own office.
	And if you hear what he says, I think it's quite telling, is you can often hear Larry Fink say things like, well, I told him in Washington.
	Well, I told them in Washington.
	So I was like, okay, so who's really calling the shots here?
	So I don't know if this came down to basically Gensler versus Fink, and maybe Fink finally had the power and the sway over Gensler to be able to push this thing across the line.
	But yeah, I agree.
	There's a lot of...
	Yeah, a lot of suspicion around this, because why all of a sudden now is it's, you know, it's all sunshine and roses on the ETF front.
	It's strange.
	But a silver lining from this, though, I would imagine, is it's going to be more difficult now for the parts of the federal government and even senators like Elizabeth Warren, a big Bitcoin fan.
	It's going to be harder for them to say that Bitcoin is a criminal coin when the SEC just approved it for institutional investors.
	So that's a silver lining in this.
	Oh, big time.
	So I think more than anything, the CTF approval has greenlit Bitcoin as a reputable asset, right?
	So I think this is going to take a lot of the wind out of the sails of Warren's anti-crypto army campaign or whatever it is that she's got going on.
	But yeah, there's a few things as well.
	Like, you know, the U.S. government has sold Bitcoin as well to its citizens.
	And through...
	So they seized, you know, through the Silk Road Initiative.
	The American government is one of the largest holders of Bitcoin on the planet, and they've actually sold Bitcoin to the likes of Tim Draper, who has purchased, and others as well.
	So for now, if they wanted to kind of turn on their heel and outlaw Bitcoin or say it's this or it's that, then all of a sudden that's going to call a whole lot of other plays into question as well.
	Like, why were you selling an illegal asset to your citizens?
	And why is this being approved by the SEC? Oops!
	Yeah, oops is right.
	So I think really this is completely taking the wind out of the sails of anybody who wants to basically fight against Bitcoin.
	I mean, I do think the broader blockchain and Web3 landscape is still up for grabs, it's up for debate.
	You know, the SEC is still going to sue the pants off of everything that smells like a cryptocurrency that isn't Bitcoin, I would imagine.
	But I think Bitcoin's in the clear.
	But what you just mentioned there, and you have a really fun old school doorbell, I think, is what I'm hearing.
	Sorry, that's the church.
	We live next door to a church.
	Oh, that's church bells.
	Oh, okay.
	Okay, great.
	Even better.
	How does the government attack something that's just like Bitcoin, but with a different name?
	Or let's say Litecoin, a little bit different architecture, but almost the same, if they've approved Bitcoin.
	I mean, how does that argument even go?
	I mean, it's a bit silly, isn't it?
	Because Gensler will often refer to the Howey test, which is so outdated to determine what's the security and what isn't.
	The Howey test was created for oranges and orchards, you know, like forever ago.
	And so to try and regulate modern day digital assets through the same purview that we use to regulate oranges and orchards, you know, back before the internet even existed is quite ridiculous.
	I don't know.
	Gensler comes out and he'll just throw the word security at just about anything.
	He listed a whole whack of projects a little while ago with securities.
	He's done this a couple of times.
	But he doesn't actually give a rhyme or reason other than they fail the how he tests.
	But he's always been very deliberate not to...
	I don't know if you guys saw his congressional hearing where he was asked point blank four times in a row, is Ethereum a security?
	And he refused to answer on it.
	He waffled on it like no man I've ever seen waffle on a question before.
	So to answer your question, it's just Gary does what Gary wants, right?
	Yeah, but that's not sustainable policy.
	I mean, at some point, right, the lawyers in the courts make arguments, and as you said, Gary Gensler's arguments are self-contradictory, incoherent, frankly.
	I like the point you made that this is stifling innovation in America.
	Because of the confusion and the lack of clear signals that are pro-innovation in the crypto space, America is losing ground against the rest of the world on this.
	Yeah, they absolutely are.
	So I think Gary's going to have a lot to answer for here, especially, you know, not to get too political, but if the Republicans take office here in the next election, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets the boot because it was Biden that actually elected Gensler into office.
	And so we could kind of see a regime change there.
	But Gensler has been in front of Congress answering for his...
	I don't want to say incompetence, but for lack of a better word, incompetence.
	He's been grilled multiple times.
	So yeah, I think he's going to have a lot to answer for.
	And you're right, we do need clear, cut and dry, black and white regulation before crypto can move forward.
	Gensler can't just roll out of bed every morning and decide, what am I going to call a security today?
	Yeah, and by the way, if Republicans do take office, then, Todd, we're going to have to film a special show just for the GOP called This is a Computer.
	Here's how it works.
	This is a keyboard.
	This is a password.
	I mean, I've never seen such incompetence, and it's just wild.
	I don't know if it's an age thing or what it is, but especially like the older Republican senators, they have no idea.
	When you talk about crypto, they have no idea what you're talking about.
	They don't even know what email is, most of them.
	As a matter of fact, they're still ordering in cases the typewriter whiteout.
	Or shredders for Hunter Biden's files.
	So Taylor, I have a question.
	I want to make a statement.
	I believe that crypto is going to just be in a standstill until there are Viable use cases where I can invest in crypto and spend it like I spend fiat.
	It's so funny.
	I don't know if you guys have watched it, but on Netflix, there's a movie that just came out called BitCond, and it was about this company, Centra, to where these cons basically said that they had the technology where no matter what your crypto is, you could convert it At retail onto this debit card and pay for it.
	And they raised just tens of millions of dollars.
	It was all a con.
	Everything was a con.
	But it addressed a point.
	I want to be able to have a use case where I can actually spend my money.
	And that's where we get into issues with Bitcoin, that it's such a fat blockchain and it's so slow that it's too expensive to buy Coke.
	But it's not private enough to buy Coke, if you know what I mean.
	That was a joke.
	But what is your thought?
	Do you see any projects out there That are addressing that specific use case of being able to allow people to be able to very easily spend the crypto that they have.
	Because you have all of these people that when we go into a bear market, we've seen it already.
	I'm a millionaire!
	But you're a millionaire on your app.
	Right?
	You just keep refreshing it.
	And you're a millionaire, and then you just made another $100,000.
	Don't you mean a bull market?
	Yeah, try to spend it, you know, to be able to off-ramp it.
	You know, what are your thoughts on that, Tyler?
	I've got a few thoughts.
	So, yeah, it's...
	Better for worse, everybody always talks about what's the killer use case in crypto, and the truth is we already have one, and it's stablecoins.
	Now, stablecoins are not ideal, but talk about a revolutionary development.
	Are these stablecoins that are pegged one to one of the US dollar?
	Stablecoin adoption has absolutely skyrocketed.
	There's a reason why there are two stablecoins that are in the top 10 by market cap, right?
	And we've seen entire nation states adopting U.S. dollar-dominated stablecoins just to escape the inflation in their country or the corrupt politicians in their country.
	So we see stablecoin adoption in countries like Argentina, Venezuela, Yeah, just all over the world really go up because you're talking about how can we spend crypto and stablecoins are the vehicle that allows us to spend crypto.
	Now, the issue with stablecoins is, again, they're centralized.
	They largely go against the ethos of what crypto is supposed to be, right?
	So it kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier.
	It's like, why are you into crypto?
	Are you in it for the cypherpunk self-sovereign philosophy, or are you just in it for convenience, use cases, etc.?
	Stablecoins do offer an extremely effective method of making digital payments in something that is equivalent to the US dollar.
	Do we really want to be pegged to the US dollar, though?
	I was going to have that point brought up too.
	But Taylor, what you're saying, I mean, it makes perfect sense.
	Stablecoin provides this liquidity and this certainty for a lot of people.
	But I still don't trust Tether's proof of reserves, number one, and their lack of legit audits.
	At least that's the way I see it.
	And secondly, I mean, we know the dollar is losing purchasing power every day because of all the money printing of the dollar.
	And it's like, if I'm going to hold crypto...
	I don't want to lose 2% per month or whatever because it's tied to a currency that's failing.
	You know what I mean?
	I mean, you know about international banking.
	I'm sure you've followed like the BRICS nations and the de-dollarization trend globally.
	And I don't have any faith in the dollar long term.
	I have a lot more faith, frankly, in Bitcoin and Monero than I do the dollar.
	And I have even more faith in gold.
	It's just like physical gold, you know?
	You're such a prepper.
	I agree with that.
	And I took Todd's question as spending, right?
	And so I agree.
	I don't want to hold on to U.S. dollars, but I want to spend them more than any other nation's currency at the moment.
	It's the best of the bad bunch.
	But yeah, like you said, am I going to hold on to this long term?
	No.
	Is it a store of value?
	No.
	It's a good medium of exchange.
	I can ditch dollars at every opportunity I get.
	But yeah, Todd, to your point, I guess, You know, different cryptocurrencies for different things, right?
	Like, again, we talked about Bitcoin as being a store of value, but as for a true payment coin, that one's difficult because while some cryptocurrencies are incredibly fast and low cost, like we've got, you know, the XRPs of the world and Stellar Lumens.
	God, they're a dime a dozen.
	Those assets are so volatile that they're not a viable means of payment either, right?
	Like, yeah, I can send you $100 in a blink of an eye for fractions of a penny, but tomorrow that $100 could be worth 50 or 200 or anywhere in between.
	So I guess you're right in a sense that other than stablecoins, we still don't have a true sovereign But there's another way to approach this.
	There's another way to approach this.
	And I'm going to just kind of show a little bit of leg.
	Mike, I haven't even talked to you about this, but I am part of a privacy group consortium who is developing an initiative that That is going to create, I think, a killer use case, which is we already have the network to be able to build.
	It's about merchants accepting different kinds of crypto.
	So there is a network right now that is 60,000 strong that we're trying to herd like a cat to be able to create a platform to where...
	Temu being able to accept various forms of cryptocurrency.
	And I'm not just talking about privacy crypto.
	I'm talking about, you know, as many cryptos as the merchants ultimately are willing to be able to accept.
	I think it's one of those things to where a lot more people would invest in crypto if they knew that there were places or merchants who would accept it.
	Mike, I mean, I can't tell you how many times people, you know, approach me and say, you know, when is Mike going to be able to accept Epic Cash?
	Or, you know what I mean?
	I know, I know.
	And people want to spend that, I want to spend, I would spend a lot with you just because of supporting the use case.
	But I know there are entire crypto communities that, man, if they can have some viable merchants out there that have great products that are savvy enough to be able to just say, we get it.
	We will accept your crypto as a means of payment.
	Well, as online merchants, we need simple tools.
	And, you know, we've spent quite a lot of time, our developers, working on tools and trying to integrate.
	And it's not easy.
	It's really not easy.
	And some of the popular platforms out there for e-commerce, like Shopify, they used to have plug-in tools and they pulled them.
	They pulled them because of Gensler.
	It's Gary's fault.
	Again, that guy is screwing with everybody.
	I think Gary pressured the e-commerce platforms...
	To only favor credit card transactions and to ditch crypto because it's too risky or anti-money laundering stuff, AML. That's typically the excuse.
	But I know, Taylor, you've covered this.
	Do you want to chime in?
	Yeah, I was actually just going to say I spent a year living on Madeira Island.
	It's a beautiful Portuguese island.
	Yeah.
	There's a very strong Bitcoin community out there.
	And there's a lot of talk about trying to get local businesses to accept Bitcoin out there.
	And there's some great work going on out there.
	And I did have a chance to actually speak to some physical store owners on accepting Bitcoin.
	And a lot of them are...
	They love the idea and they're up for it.
	But ultimately, when I asked what their biggest hurdle and reason for not adopting it is, other than just how do I accept Bitcoin, it's...
	It makes budgeting almost impossible, right?
	Again, this goes back to the volatility.
	At the end of the month, they've got to pay salaries, they've got to pay bills, and that's just not viable when you're accepting a currency that can lose half of its value within a week, right?
	So I think, Todd, I was thinking a little bit more on your previous question as well, and I've often felt And I think you guys will probably agree that the holy grail of crypto, something that has not been achieved yet, would actually be a decentralized algorithmic stablecoin, something that's not owned by anybody and rebalances by an algorithm.
	Now, unfortunately, every single attempt to create an algorithmic stablecoin has failed spectacularly.
	But yeah, I think if the day ever comes where somebody can crack that conundrum, that will be the ultimate Yeah, again, the ultimate holy grail in crypto.
	Something that can be pegged to a stable asset, hold a stable value.
	That doesn't need to be censorship-resistant as it's decentralized.
	And then I think once somebody cracks that, then that could be the next major use case for crypto.
	Well, you know, there's another project, and we're going to interview these guys from LODE. I don't know if you've heard about them, but I did talk to some of their people.
	I don't hold any load, by the way, but it's backed by physical deposits of silver or gold held in Idaho, which if that can be sufficiently proven, at least as a merchant, I would know that, hey, the price of this coin that is a proxy for silver can't fall below the price of silver.
	And so that would give me at least some...
	Some aversion or evasion of price risk as a merchant.
	I mean, I'm a merchant and I would be glad to accept coins that are backed by physical gold and silver as long as there's not a lot of speculative bubble pricing above those metals, which I don't think there would be.
	I mean, I think those prices would be right in line with gold and silver is my guess.
	But then again, stablecoins have sometimes fallen away from the fiat currencies as well.
	Yeah, and even now, there are plenty of cryptocurrencies that are pegged to gold, and they hold a fairly accurate peg.
	Paxos gold is one.
	But even with that, going back to the ethos of crypto, it's about trustlessness, right?
	It's I don't want to trust anybody.
	So even with these gold-backed cryptocurrencies, you still have to trust, do they hold the reserves?
	And how do I know they're not just going to shut down or pack up one day or even start censoring transactions?
	You know, they can also get Wow, words.
	Words are difficult.
	They can also fall under the purview of different regulatory bodies as well, right?
	And that was one of the big things that scared people with Ledger.
	And Ledger is a hardware wallet, and they recently had their Ledger recover fiasco.
	And people are like, okay, so what happens if law enforcement comes after Ledger?
	Are they going to have to disclose Ledger users?
	So this would be the same thing with some of these gold-backed stablecoins as well, is how do we know that we're not all going to get doxxed if we choose to use these?
	So, yeah, we have to get back into...
	The trustless ethos of cryptocurrency, for sure.
	Exactly.
	Oh, and I can't believe our time is almost up for today.
	I mean, this has gone so fast.
	This has been fascinating.
	But in the interest of time, Todd, you want to ask a final question here, and then we'll ask Tyler to kind of summarize the show?
	Yeah.
	Taylor, you...
	I mean, you are doing so much at Coin Bureau, and I would just like to open it up to you.
	Can you end by educating us?
	Is there anything about the initiatives that you are working on that you think that our audience should know about?
	I mean, there's nothing that we are working on as a physical product or rolling out any sort of a development.
	I mean, our bread and butter since day one has just been the unwavering desire to spread awareness and educational crypto, right?
	And that's what we continue to do day in, day out.
	So I guess the only thing that I would have to say is that the Coin Bureau YouTube channel is it's a fantastic place to send Especially beginners, but really anybody.
	We don't get deep into the technicals.
	We keep everything on a high-level overview of things.
	I do my best to put things into layman's terms as well and relate things to real-world scenarios.
	So, I mean, it's not a very exciting answer, but I guess all I can say is...
	No, it's a great answer.
	It's a great answer.
	So people would go to YouTube.
	And they would search for Coin Bureau and they should subscribe and follow.
	And within Coin Bureau YouTube channel, I presume there are different rabbit holes you can go down.
	Like if I am a true beginner, are there areas where people can go to say, hey, I need a 101 to where they could go to get some initial education?
	Absolutely.
	So we cover a wider range of everything from Bitcoin to privacy coins, Ethereum, you name it.
	We probably have a topic about it.
	So for the true beginners, I mean, we've got some fantastic Bitcoin 101 guides.
	So if there's anybody that needs to be orange-billed or just hearing about Bitcoin for the first time, guides like that are fantastic.
	I really harp the importance of self-custody a lot as well.
	well.
	So we've got some great content on literal step-by-step on how to take self-custody, the wallets that we recommend, and the risks as well.
	So one thing I never, ever shy away from is the risks.
	I mean, blockchain technology is not perfect.
	I even say in my author bio that I don't even know if it's the end-all be-all, but I do believe it's the best chance that we have against basically a totalitarian 1984 style future that we seem to be heading towards.
	So I never shy away from the weak points and the risks involved with crypto as well.
	So You know, with all journalistic integrity, that is something that I think we do better than any other publication out there.
	So I never hesitate.
	Even if I didn't work for the Coin Bureau, I still think it's a fantastic resource.
	Well, I want to add, I love the maturity of Coin Bureau.
	And you and the other leaders there, you know, you're very level-headed.
	Even in this interview today, even though Todd and I joke around from time to time, but you're very level-headed.
	And I don't ever want to see one more video on YouTube of some guy...
	Oh yeah, oh yeah, this coin's going to the moon!
	Jump on board!
	Come on, please!
	And that's not Coin Bureau.
	No.
	Thank goodness.
	And I've always found Coin Bureau videos to be very educational, very balanced, very level-headed.
	And not, like you say, not shilling anything.
	It's kind of like, in fact, I think Coin Bureau goes out of its way to describe risks, which is an important part of this process of the maturity of this entire ecosystem.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And, you know, part of that as well in full transparency is just to stay at the SEC's crosshairs.
	You know, we've seen a lot of YouTube influencers get nailed for trying to shill this, promote that, launch this.
	Right.
	So, you know, it's kind of like a double-edged benefit for us is we're providing an honest service with integrity and we stay well clear of the crosshairs of regulators.
	So that's a win.
	Absolutely.
	So then what is the Coin Bureau business model?
	So I know that there are other channels that to be able to get on their show, you have to pay them $10,000 in BTC to get a two-minute shout-out or something like that.
	But that's not what you guys do, right?
	I can't come to you and say, hey, I want you to talk about my coin or my project today.
	And pay you a lot of money and then you, you know, put the nice spin on it for us, right?
	That's not what you do?
	That's correct.
	So we don't accept payment for being featured on the YouTube channel.
	We do get approached, as you guys can imagine, dozens of times a week.
	And we do leave a lot of money on the table.
	And it can be difficult because we have been offered some pretty reasonable sums of cash to be like, hey, please just talk about our project.
	But at the end of the day, we always...
	We'll always say no.
	We always turn them down.
	And we just cover things that we think are important and projects that are doing good in the space, right?
	So we cover what we think is important.
	And then you asked about our business model.
	So the way that we make money is through affiliate marketing.
	So again, we won't shill.
	We'll do unbiased reviews.
	So a good example of this is Ledger.
	Ledger is one of our partners, but when they launched their Ledger Recover feature and their data breach, we didn't hide from these.
	We were one of the first ones to be out there and be like, this is crap.
	I don't know what you guys are doing.
	They're a partner of ours.
	We didn't shy away from that.
	We'll do reviews on the website as well.
	And then after we do a review, a project will reach out and we'll be like, well, I wish you didn't mention that the product's cheap and made of plastic.
	And I'm like, well, it is cheap and made out of plastic.
	I was like, if you didn't want us to say that, you shouldn't have made it cheap and out of plastic.
	So yeah, that's the way we make money is through partnerships and affiliate marketing.
	And we actually just launched like a subscription service as well.
	So users can subscribe to, we've got a private Discord channel and what's called the Coin Bureau Hub.
	And so that's just where some of our community members can go for additional insights, community chats, analysis and things like that.
	If I had to provide one word that comes across with you, I just think you're authentic.
	You know, you're just authentic in your presentation and approach.
	That's right.
	That's what we go for.
	Yeah, thank you guys.
	Well, you certainly demonstrated that with us here today, Taylor.
	So thank you so much for your time and your insight.
	And I think you've just demonstrated to our whole audience why they should check out CoinBureau.com.
	And the YouTube channel as well.
	And don't forget, by the way, you guys should post on this platform, brighttown.com, as well, because you'd be welcome there.
	You'd find a very ready audience, and we'd never censor you, even if you talk about Ledger's plastic, cheap plastic.
	But thank you for joining us today, Taylor.
	It's been great.
	Yeah, thank you guys so much.
	I really appreciate the opportunity.
	This was fun.
	Absolutely.
	We had a blast.
	All right.
	Thanks, Taylor.
	Cheers.
	All right.
	And wow, that was a great interview.
	What an incredibly smart man who covers this area.
	So Todd, you and I will come back after this break then with the after-party analysis and commentary.
	Sound good?
	Yes, sir.
	All right.
	Join the official discussion channel for this show on telegram at t.me slash decentralized TV where you can ask questions or offer suggestions of who we should interview next.
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	Check it all out at decentralized.tv Alright, welcome back to the After Party here with my co-host Todd Pitner.
	And Todd, since Taylor was your invite, I've got to say congratulations.
	What a great guest.
	I have to give you a round of applause right now.
	These are the hands from DTV. You're such a hands-off guy.
	Oh, they belong to him.
	We accidentally decentralized the anatomy of DTV Man again.
	But he did survive the attack of Rhodey.
	Oh!
	Speak of Rhodey.
	He did survive the attack of Rhodey.
	He wants to go in over two.
	That's great.
	Rhodey, what are you doing here?
	Huh?
	What are you doing?
	It's too early.
	This is for the end of the show.
	He's here right now.
	He's like, I just want to talk to you about some self-custody.
	All right, go get that.
	How do I take self-custody of this guy's hands?
	Yeah, he definitely wants...
	Now, when I put up DTV Man, Rhodey gets all energized.
	He's like, really?
	Is it bite time?
	It should be.
	Do we get to bite something?
	Yeah, I think we went a show or two where we didn't have DTV Man, so I think everybody thought that, you know, Rhodey won.
	He was destroyed.
	No, we had DTV man, but he was temporarily banned because he's white.
	Yes.
	Yeah, he was not allowed on the show.
	As well he should.
	We had to comply with the DEI requirements there for one episode or two.
	Yeah, but now he's back.
	Thanks to popular support.
	Only because he identifies as a Native American like Elizabeth Warren, so that's why he's...
	He does.
	Is that a Native American lapel pin you have on there, Mike?
	I've seen a lapel pin.
	Oh, yeah.
	Thanks for noticing.
	I've never seen you with a lapel pin.
	Well, I normally don't wear lapel pins.
	But hold on, let me take care of Brody.
	Brody, you're going to have to chill.
	Hold on.
	Mike just ordered a St.
	Bernard attack dog.
	So he's going to train the St.
	Bernard like Brody.
	And so when the St.
	Bernard jumps on his desk...
	It's going to just be destroyed.
	This is why you tune in.
	This is why you keep hanging on there.
	Now, I shared with the audience, Mike, that you are in process, that you have placed your order for a St.
	Bernard attack dog.
	And so, you know, at some point in time, there's going to be a St.
	Bernard jumping on there with Rhodey.
	And I don't know if we'll ever see you again, Mike.
	Yeah.
	I have no idea what you're talking about with the St.
	Bernard, but...
	I'm just envisioning in my mind, you have your German Shepherd, or I know he's not a German Shepherd, but, you know, if you had one that was the size of a big ol' huge St.
	Bernard, him jumping up there...
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Well, but you know what we'll do at the end of the show today?
	We'll put DTV, man.
	So I put Rhodey in the other room.
	Okay.
	The control room.
	The pent-up room.
	You're going to get him pent-up.
	What we're going to do is we're going to put DTV Man here, and then we'll give a command and have him jump and attack DTV Man right here.
	How about that?
	We'll try that.
	Which, no offense to Red Pill Prince, by the way, because we love your products, and we know DTV Man is sporting the DTV T-shirt.
	That's right.
	Folks, if you go to redpillprince.com, which is not a sponsor of this show, I just want to be clear, we just love redpillprince.com.
	We don't earn anything from them.
	They sent us some free stuff for him and a couple of hoodies and some cups and everything.
	But you go to redpillprince.com and then forward slash, I think it's DTV, right?
	Forward slash DTV? Forward slash DTV, that's right.
	Oh, there you go.
	There's all the DTV gear.
	Nice.
	And you know what's going to be added to that?
	This isn't going to be branded DTV, but she's going to add it to it at my request.
	I was just like, I want a t-shirt that says, my tinfoil hat, and then a greater sign, your face mask.
	I want to wear that around.
	And I'm telling you, I think we're going to sell out of those things.
	I just think it sends such a message.
	Can you imagine being in a store and you got the people who are still masked up and they look at your shirt?
	Now, does it say tinfoil hat in text, or is it an image of a tinfoil hat?
	In text.
	In text.
	Okay.
	All right.
	I want to see the shirt.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, we tried to do the visual, but then it was just a little bit too elusive.
	Right.
	It's hard to see what is that.
	Yeah, exactly.
	It looks like a Hershey's kiss or something.
	Yes.
	Bingo.
	Bingo.
	Did it?
	Oh, okay.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	Well, by the way, you asked me a question about this lapel.
	So this, we don't have a close-up shot, I don't think, but unless you guys have that camera, camera one or two, would it be?
	Anyway.
	We'll get a close-up shot, but this is a Texas, it's a pin with two symbols.
	It's the state of Texas with the Texas flag, and then the Texas Rangers.
	Over here on this side is Texas Rangers, and over here on this side is the Texas flag.
	And it was given to me by a senior Texas Ranger.
	Oh, wow.
	Yes.
	Well, I should say a former, there it is, former senior Texas Ranger.
	Well, I guess once a Texas Ranger, always a Texas Ranger.
	So you can see the Texas flag there.
	Yeah.
	And it's because I met with Texas law enforcement about the whole immigration issue and they gave me a lot of good information about what's going on and how we're going to keep Texas secure and so on.
	And frankly, a lot of those guys watch my show.
	And they feel like I'm helping Texas.
	I'm contributing to the economy of Texas and the defense of Texas and so on.
	So I was really honored they gave me the pin.
	And I'm like, man, that's the one pin I will wear.
	That is really cool.
	Well, congrats on earning that because you work really hard.
	I feel like I earned this pin.
	It's like I didn't just buy it.
	I actually earned it.
	Look, I listen to you religiously every day, and I know what you're talking about because you did a podcast on it.
	You did a show on it to where they're going to keep us safe by pulling illegals over.
	And so I just want you to be able to record going on that first ride-along With the officers.
	Ride along!
	You and Rhodey to be able to get your first traffic stop.
	No, they would never approve of my dog, Rhodey, going on traffic stops, man.
	Because he's trained.
	He's trained in multiple, we'll just say, skills.
	He was about to be purchased by the German police, actually, before I got him.
	He was going to be a...
	Basically enforcing crowd control against German citizens who are protesting against the corruption of the German government.
	Oh, you saved him.
	I saved him.
	Yeah.
	Man!
	You red-pilled him.
	You red-pilled him.
	I totally red-pilled Rhodey.
	All right.
	Let's get back to Taylor.
	Yeah, because he did such a great job.
	And just...
	There's actually not a lot to add to it, except it would be great to be able to interview him for three hours because he's got so much knowledge.
	Not only him, but Guy Turner.
	Oh yeah, absolutely.
	The face, if you will.
	So you have Taylor, who's the written word, and he's the one that creates the words, but Guy, he gets on there.
	Did you know, Mike, I think you do, but they have 2.4 million subscribers.
	Oh, yeah.
	I did know that because I brought up their YouTube page.
	Here it is.
	I did know that because I brought up their YouTube channel here.
	Yeah.
	Here it is.
	Coin Bureau, 2.4 million subscribers.
	That's pretty incredible.
	And the really incredible thing is how they managed to not get banned.
	I know.
	Off YouTube.
	I know.
	Because they're so prolific in their coverage, and I just love their approach.
	You learn a ton.
	I mean, they really are must-watch daily.
	If you're in the crypto space and you're remotely interested, and if you want to kind of cheat a little bit, From the Do Your Own Research, just go there.
	Just start binge-watching things.
	I mean, it's everything you need in there to be able to start understanding because there's a lot of one-on-one material.
	Well, I've got to tell you, I've watched probably hundreds of guys' videos.
	Yes.
	And I love his approach.
	He's very methodical.
	He's very mature and balanced.
	You don't feel like he's trying to push something on you.
	He doesn't come off as some kind of a huckster.
	He's more like really a skeptical investigator of what's happening.
	Yeah, that's right.
	That's right.
	An investigative journalist.
	He is an advocate of crypto, as we are, because we love the core ideas of decentralization and self-custody and privacy, with privacy crypto.
	So he's an advocate of crypto, and that's fine.
	I want somebody who understands the passion behind this movement, but he's not a shill.
	Thank God.
	No, that's why I wanted to ask the questions to Taylor at the end, is to be able to unpack that.
	Because so many of these influencers are people you see talking on, you know, you could research Bitcoin and up pops Lea Heilpern or other influencers who are great people, great representatives of the brand, if you will, but you have to pay to play.
	You have to pay to actually, you know, be featured with them.
	And so then it starts to get a little sketchy is probably too strong of a word, but I just love how Coin Bureau does it because, again, authentic, authentic, authentic.
	That is who they are.
	Yeah, exactly.
	And, you know, I got to say, it's so great.
	We've done some amazing interviews on this show.
	And, you know, we're over 30 interviews, over 30 episodes so far, which I know maybe that doesn't sound like a lot to somebody like Guy there at Coin Bureau because, you know, he's done probably like 30,000 or something.
	He's done 1.1 thousand, so 1,100 videos.
	That's a lot of videos.
	It's a lot of videos.
	He's been at it a little longer than we have.
	Yeah, he's been at it.
	And you and I also have a lot of other things that we do in addition to this.
	Yeah, this is weekly.
	Right.
	This is typically a once-a-week type of show.
	Yeah, sometimes twice a week.
	But I've got to say...
	We have met some incredible people, and I think Taylor is one of those people.
	I mean, he came out of the banking system, I believe in Europe, and he got red-pilled, and he's like, wait a second, these banks, it's very predatory the way banks interact with customers.
	That's right.
	And he made a moral and journalistic decision that he would rather be involved in technology that empowers people rather than, frankly, enslaves people.
	Right.
	That's admirable.
	That's the moral choice.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	He was very good.
	I do have to say that on these BTC ETFs, I think that they need to rebrand the BTC to DBB. You know, I'm fond of the phrase Druid Babylonian Bastards.
	I mean, my goodness, BlackRock, Vanguard, Larry Fink, they already own everything.
	Why do they have to own Bitcoin too?
	Doesn't it make you wonder?
	I mean, I have a question for you on this.
	Now that Bitcoin ETFs are approved, does it make you more likely or less likely to want Bitcoin?
	Me, less.
	Because I know the con is on.
	The con is on.
	I mean, my gosh, just look at the players.
	If you take a look at the 11 people, or not people, but companies, who were awarded these ETFs, they are just, again, the Druid Babylonian bastards of the Druid Babylonian bastards.
	They're the ones who...
	Have oppressed us in this world now.
	This is just a new shiny object to them.
	So, no, for me, Bitcoin is dead to me.
	It can maybe still be a gateway into privacy crypto, but it certainly isn't something that I'm going to say, oh, now that there's this adoption...
	But with these ETFs, that Bitcoin to the moon, you know, they can manipulate this like a cat with catnip, man.
	Oh, yeah.
	And they will.
	And they will.
	So this is just going to pick the pockets of all of us more.
	It's just not if, it's when.
	You know, it's a weird metaphor, but it kind of feels like...
	Did you ever have a treehouse when you were a kid?
	I did.
	You had a treehouse?
	And you know what was cool about the treehouse was the parents were not invited, right?
	Yeah.
	For sure.
	It was a secret place where you could get together with your friends and you could speak freely and you could engage in verbal transactions or whatever without your parents running everything, right?
	Yeah, exactly.
	And then if your mom and dad ever came out to the treehouse and said, we're going to tear this thing down, Or we're going to control the treehouse.
	Like, that would ruin the whole thing, right?
	Yeah, exactly.
	That's what ETFs of Bitcoin feel like to me.
	I like that.
	I like that.
	It was like the treehouse.
	It was our own little private money system that's no longer little.
	It got so big that then the parents are like, well, we want to use the treehouse.
	So the parents are taking over the treehouse.
	So the ETF needs to be ETH? No.
	Treehouse being the TH? Oh, oh.
	Treehouse.
	I just think that people are going to have to shift to, frankly, the privacy coins that we've covered on this show.
	That's what I think.
	Yes.
	I mean, they're never going to have an ETF of Monero or Epic or any of the – or Furo.
	Nope.
	Nope.
	They're going to try to ban those probably.
	Nope.
	And believe you me, the Privacy Coin Network is coming together, Mike.
	And I know you and I talked a little bit just off air, and I can't go into detail, but one day we will have a show where we kind of unpack some things.
	But I just want everybody to know, if you are privacy-minded, please, please, please, you know, don't think...
	That the privacy coins who may not be the use cases right now of to the moon, you know, I'm just telling you, there's a lot of great things in the works.
	And you talk about the cypherpunk movement, I feel like we're We're participating in the different kind of cypherpunk movement, privacy one.
	And so I couldn't be more excited.
	I think if you are watching this out there, you know, get educated on cryptocurrency, but be sure to go back to all of our interviews with the amazing folks that we have discussed related to privacy crypto, and you'll be more advanced than 99.99% of the world out there.
	Yeah, and in fact, you know, one of my own family members follows this show, watched episodes.
	This is so funny.
	And she's on the older side.
	She's a generation older than me.
	And she saw our episode on Beam and she bought Beam when it was like 3.2 cents or something per coin.
	And then it turns out, like, a couple of weeks ago, for whatever reason, Beam shot up to, like, 11 cents.
	Wow.
	And actually, it went higher, and I guess it kind of settled around 11 cents.
	And she asked me, she said, well, wow, like, I've made 300% on this Beam coin.
	What do I do with it?
	I don't know.
	What do you want to do with it?
	Well...
	Do I sell it?
	Anyway, I gave her the option.
	She ended up swapping it out for Monero.
	Oh, that's great.
	So she used a swap service and swapped it, and she made 300% from watching the show.
	How about that?
	Yeah, I mean, just on one coin.
	And I didn't push her to do this.
	No.
	Because I don't give investment advice.
	I don't even encourage speculation on any of the coins that we talk about.
	I shared with you at the beginning of this whole thing, Mike, there was this older gentleman who...
	Went to his Coinbase wallet just because he watched our show and we reminded him about cryptocurrency.
	And he's like, it just triggered him.
	He's like, ah, I was involved with something.
	And he went...
	And he had $120,000?
	$125,000.
	He invested $300 back in 2016 and forgot about it and didn't, you know...
	$125,000 today.
	It's just such a beautiful story.
	I wonder how many people have forgotten their passwords to their old Bitcoin wallets that would be worth millions right now.
	Yeah, yeah.
	We should search for a guest who could literally do a security show with us saying, if you are going to get into crypto, let's have somebody who could go through a 101 of the top 10 things that you really need to do to be able to educate our audience.
	Because that is such...
	Look, when you get into crypto, you become your own bank.
	And when things go bad, the...
	The toll-free 800 number isn't going to be toll-free.
	It's just going to be your own cell phone number.
	And when you dial it and it rings back to yourself, I guarantee you the customer service is going to suck.
	So you really need to become knowledgeable about protecting your crypto assets.
	So I think that would be a service that we could provide, Mike.
	So I'm going to make it my mission to be able to try to find a guest who could serve that role.
	Well, that's absolutely the case.
	And I have a pretty cool announcement to share with you here today and our audience today that kind of has to do with support.
	You know, Todd, how I'm working on an AI project, a large language model, you know?
	Yes, sir.
	And we've invested in a lot of hardware, hundreds of thousands of dollars of computer hardware, to be able to do this fine-tuning training with large language models as well.
	Right now we're doing a lot of transcription of videos.
	And I hope you don't mind, but this entire show, every show that we have done here, is going to be used for training the AI system that we'll be releasing for free.
	Oh, that's awesome!
	Yeah.
	So, I mean, everything DTV will be in the large language model, which means that people will be able to ask it questions about crypto and privacy coins and every coin that we've talked about, and that's going to be reflected in the model.
	That's so cool.
	Yeah, isn't it?
	Yeah, well, what I'm excited about is the AI is going to have a sense of humor.
	It better have a sense of humor.
	Well, you know, they say AI hallucinates, and I'm like, yes, you know.
	That's a feature, not a bug.
	We wanted to have a sense of humor.
	Oh, great.
	And the good news is we're releasing more and more models throughout the year based on all the new videos and content that we're bringing in.
	We're getting a lot of authors that are giving us permission to use their entire body of work, all their videos, all their books, all their articles.
	But every episode that we do after this, even, Todd, will be in the large language model.
	Boy, that's just super exciting.
	I know.
	It's very cool.
	And I should, you know what, I should, we should reach out to Coin Bureau and see if they want to give us permission to use some of the guys' videos in the language model.
	All of them.
	We could.
	If you just subsid all of those, could you imagine you would have a language model that would be the greatest language Search asset ever on the planet and ever will be that would be just all of their content that would be like that, no matter what you queried, you'd get the right answer.
	Wow.
	I know.
	Okay.
	Wouldn't that be cool?
	Taylor.
	Call us.
	Okay, so yeah, here's what we're going to do.
	We'll reach out to Taylor and Guy, and we'll just make them an offer.
	Like, if you want to make all your videos available to us, we'll do two things.
	We'll incorporate it into our LLM, but also, we can give Coin Bureau back an LLM called Chat with Coin Bureau.
	Just train on their information.
	Yeah.
	Perfect.
	Perfect.
	I hope this doesn't hallucinate too much.
	This is so fun.
	There's all kinds of fun stuff that we can do with this tech and this show.
	I mean, what I love about what we do here, Todd, is that, you know, you and I, we're not afraid of technology.
	We embrace it.
	Yeah.
	And, like, some of my own audience is like, you know, No, you can't use AI. It's the devil.
	And I'm like, well, I can think of way better examples of the devil out there in the world of politics, but No.
	I said, we're performing an exorcism on the AI. We're removing the devil with retraining, and we're training it with good information.
	You retrain the devil.
	We retrain the devil, and we're going to make it work for us.
	It's like we captured a Terminator, we mind-wiped it, and we turned it into Arnold Schwarzenegger to protect John Connor.
	That's what we've done.
	You're going to have someone, a reporter from the New York Times call you and say, Mike Adams, what is it that you do?
	And you're going to say, oh, I retrained the devil.
	We exorcise demons from AI systems.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Speaking of...
	Yeah, go ahead.
	I was just going to say that I know you got a little gift box back there somewhere.
	I do.
	I was going to mention that.
	So this is one of the sponsors of the show, and this is a phone that's de-googled.
	So it does not spy on you.
	If you go to abovephone.com slash DTV, then you'll get access.
	I mean, you'll have the Above Phone company there and all their phones that are de-Googled phones.
	This is a really great technology.
	It's an Android operating system with no Google spying engine in it.
	It doesn't spy on you.
	Now, it's Google Pixel hardware, but it has also been...
	Anti-demonized.
	In other words, they've mind-wiped the Google out of the Google hardware and they've put in an open-source, transparent Android that does not have Google Play.
	It does not talk to Google.
	It does not spy on you.
	And it's from the above phone company.
	And, you know, it comes with, well, a little instruction manual and a bunch of great stuff like screen protectors and what have you.
	But you can go there right now.
	And they also have an above book.
	Oh, you've got yours.
	Yes, sir.
	Awesome.
	I love mine.
	It's 508.
	Yes, my above phone, this is astonishing.
	Everybody, please, please, you need one.
	I'm telling you, I mean...
	Knowing how much phones spy on us now, I couldn't live normally without a de-Googled phone.
	This is the way to go.
	So check it out at abovephone.com slash DTV. And like it says, replace big tech with your private ecosystem.
	And then, Todd, I want to ask you about decentralizeddirectory.com and how that's going so far.
	It's just fantastic.
	I mean, it has been so fulfilling to be able to speak with so many people out there on different subjects, people that are interested in decentralization, people who are interested in private crypto.
	As I shared with you, this gentleman, I helped him, you know, Buying $125,000 or confirm that that was real.
	But kind of the hero of Decentralized Directory is the financial service.
	I wouldn't call it a service, but it is an entity that I educate people on that allows people to keep more of what they earn.
	It is called an unincorporated nonprofit association.
	And those people who have come to be educated on it cannot believe that there is an undiscovered opportunity to be able to literally turn a lot of your income into tax-exempt status.
	And Mike, I'm telling you of the people who have connected with me, my batting average is very high, not on selling this, because I tell everybody I don't sell it, I present it.
	And then you can make a big boy, big girl decision on whether you want to go down that path.
	And I have made a lot, a lot, a lot of people really, really happy about this, Mike.
	I mean, it's just...
	I have to always start now with people.
	Let me tell you what this is not.
	It is not too good to be true.
	This is a lawful way to be able to keep more of what you earned.
	And so thank you for asking.
	I couldn't be more happy with the success of helping people.
	I am glad that you're helping people.
	And the website is decentralizeddirectory.com.
	And go there.
	And where do they scroll down?
	If you go down there to where the key partners, right there.
	Right here?
	And you click on that link.
	And then you scroll down.
	And then you go to the second one that says tax something.
	Ah, tax saving strategies.
	Okay.
	Tax saving.
	Yeah, click on that.
	And people can go just learn...
	Get a little cursory overview of what it is.
	I show a little bit of leg in there.
	And then at the bottom, if you want to learn more, you just book an hour with me.
	Okay, cool.
	Can you scroll all the way down?
	Does it actually show you?
	Oh, yeah.
	Here we are talking about it.
	Yeah, there you go.
	Yeah, people should absolutely click on that video and they should scroll down and at the very bottom you'll be able to find, you know, book an hour with me.
	And it will be a good investment of your and my time, I promise you.
	Very cool.
	I love it.
	Okay.
	And we have Rhodey in the house, it looks like.
	He's coming back.
	Which means I better clear out.
	Yes.
	Here it comes.
	Are we going to get a little DTV action?
	I mean, an ETV match?
	Okay, if I do that, I'm going to move the mic and the laptop, and we'll do that at the very last thing then, because otherwise he'll just tangle up and all this stuff.
	Okay, that'll be our closing credits.
	All right, we'll do that next.
	So I'm going to get ready for that.
	But Todd, you can do the play-by-play like you did last time, okay?
	Okay.
	And then that'll be the end of the show.
	Beautiful.
	Well, everybody watching, thank you.
	I hope you enjoyed our special guest.
	Taylor was just amazing.
	And Taylor, I presume you're watching this, but thank you for joining us.
	It was great.
	Please take advantage of Mike's offer for this AI model for Coin Bureau.
	Oh, yeah.
	We would love to do that.
	That would be loads of fun.
	That's a big deal.
	All right.
	All right.
	Well, great show.
	And everybody watch us on Decentralized.tv and get ready for Rhodey, the round two of the attack on DTV Man.
	We may have to ask Red Pill Prince to send replacement hats and shirts after today.
	We'll see.
	All right.
	Here we go.
	Here we go, everybody.
	Ladies and gentlemen.
	Get this out of the way.
	Ladies and gentlemen, if you enjoy a good steak, What you can do is you can cube it up, okay?
	And then you can take some yarn and a needle, and you can basically turn it into a steak necklace.
	And if you have an enemy in your life, you know, that you just want to maybe be kind to and make a kind gesture and give them a steak necklace, you can tie it around their neck.
	And then you could have them go on a tour on Mike Adams.
	There we go.
	Oh.
	Instead of biting him, he's going to beat the crap out of him with the rings.
	Oh.
	He's like, I have 18 rings on my neck, Dad.
	Are those ring signatures?
	Yes.
	I think that's a Monero doll, because those are definitely ring signatures I can tell.
	And, you know, thank you, Red Pill Prince, for the shirt and giving us the opportunity to be able to have a reason to attack things.
	You're awesome.
	Redpillprints.com forward slash BTV. Get him!
	Get him, get him! Get him, get him, get him, get him! Get him, bro! Get him, get him!
	Woo!
	Yes!
	Good boy!
	Good boy!
	I see the tail.
	He is happy.
	See?
	ETV man had a steak necklace.
	And you just don't want to wear a steak necklace around Rhodey.
	Wait for damage.
	Oh, no.
	So he is...
	You know what?
	What was it?
	Lee Majors?
	He's back.
	The $6 million man.
	We can rebuild him.
	We can rebuild.
	He's like, I'm finding limbs.
	Mike, we need to rename the TV man Lee Majors.
	This test will never be the same.
	That's Lee DTV man from now on.
	Lee DTV. That's Lee Majors.
	That's Lee Majors, Mike.
	We can rebuild him.
	Awesome stuff, Todd.
	Okay, have a great one.
	Thanks everybody for watching.

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