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Nov. 17, 2023 - Health Ranger - Mike Adams
53:14
Former Congressman Dennis Kucinich joins Mike Adams...
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Welcome to today's interview on Brighteon.com and you're going to want to stay tuned for this one.
You're going to love this.
We have a first-time guest, but of course a longtime friend of America and humanity.
It's former Congressman Dennis Kucinich, who also is an author and has done so much more.
He's an advocate for peace and humanitarian principles and he joins us today to discuss the current situation in the Middle East and much more.
Welcome Congressman Kucinich.
It's an honor, sir, to have you on today.
Mike, thank you.
I look forward to this opportunity to have a conversation with you.
And I'm just so grateful for this moment.
So, let's go for it.
Well, thank you so much for being willing to come on and talk about this, because what's happening in our world right now, this is a key issue that it transcends any kind of party affiliation.
My audience tends to be more conservative, but really independent minded.
And that's why they welcome your message right now.
And I think you and I can both agree we've seen a lot of people across the spectrum kind of lose their minds recently.
And I'm wondering, you know, why isn't it a simple thing to say that let's not let's not bomb women and babies in hospitals.
Right.
Can we start there?
What's your reaction to that?
Well, we're in a moment where what Orwell wrote about years ago in terms of the inversion of meaning, we're seeing an action that up is down, wrong is right, and worse is the better reason.
And when it comes to Gaza, we're seeing in full display here every twisted theory and thinking that would be used to justify the slaughter of innocents.
And so this, you know, this is what I have repeatedly called to attention in my writing on Substack in the last few weeks in particular, especially since October 7th.
And, you know, we don't, as I've said in a video that I just did last week that's circulating, If we have to take sides, let's take the side of peace.
And if we cannot take a stand to stop the slaughter of women and children, innocent people, then who are we?
And that, I guess, is the question.
It's not about who they are, whoever we're talking about.
Who are we?
What do we believe as people?
As Americans, what do we believe?
Where are our values?
And can there be anything more specific about being a conservative than conserving the peace?
Yes.
We defend our country.
There's no question about it.
But Mike, look, I was a third string quarterback on a not very good football team.
And I know the difference between defense and offense.
Right.
And right now we're on the offense.
Against the Palestinians in Gaza.
And I say we because the United States is absolutely involved in standing up for these policies that are so destructive.
I want to mention you have a petition available right now that people can sign, and I've got it on my screen.
It's at act.kucinich.com.
And for those who aren't familiar with how to spell your last name, it's K-U-C-I-N-I-C-H. So act...
I got that right.
Okay.
Yeah, act...
Got it.
It is K-U-C-I-N-I-C-H. It took me years to learn how to spell it, Mike.
That's great.
But, you know, I really feel right now, and based on my own history of involvement in international matters, that it's urgent to speak out and to say, whoa, wait a minute.
Stop the slaughter.
It goes beyond a ceasefire.
We have to cease violence as an instrument of diplomacy.
You know, violence is diplomacy by other means.
I guess you could say war is diplomacy by other means.
I'm glad you...
I'm glad you mentioned that.
Your point transcends this one particular crisis.
It's not about just stopping this act of violence.
Like you said, we have to stop leaning on coercion and violence as a form of diplomacy.
But as you know very much, because you fought against this as a member of the United States Congress, you fought against what I would call the military-industrial complex.
It's very, very profitable.
For certain groups, certain people, certain corporations, to have forever wars.
And that has become, you know, with all of the campaign finance that goes back to members of Congress, this has become what I call a doom loop of violence and war and profit.
How do we ever exit the doom loop as a nation?
A doom loop of violence, war, and profit.
Mike, you have succinctly characterized Where we are at with respect to this interplay between the military-industrial complex, foreign policy apparatus, and the United States Congress.
And unless we break through that, our nation itself is at risk of destruction.
This country, which I love, is not guaranteed to us.
We're told that eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.
But we have to be vigilant about Not just what's outside the perimeters of America, but what's going on inside America.
Yes.
And when our international policy is continually hijacked for purposes of moving hundreds of billions of dollars in arms to decimate countries and to create an agenda that has nothing to do with the needs of the American people at all.
When that happens, it's fair to ask, hey, what is going on here?
You know, I'm from Cleveland, Ohio.
I'm from the neighborhoods of the city.
I grew up in Cleveland, the oldest of seven.
My parents never owned a home.
We were renters.
And like a lot of Americans today, you know, trouble finding a place to live.
By the time I was 17, we lived in 21 different places, including a couple of cars.
I know what people go through, try to make it day to day.
And when I see our government being willing to spend Trillions of dollars to destroy other countries, to destroy lives in other countries.
When we ignore the lives of our own people here at home, I'm ready to say, hey, wait a minute.
I never signed up for anything like that.
And it's time to redirect America's resources and our ethic about what we stand for as a country.
Well stated.
I completely agree with you on that point.
In fact, I want to back up a little bit and ask you about this dynamic and how this was applied to the conflict in Ukraine.
Now, I've watched several of your interviews.
I don't know fully your position on what happened in Ukraine, but there's one dynamic I think you can speak to.
It is that young Ukrainian men have been dying by the hundreds of thousands of While wealthy American corporations that have ties to Washington, D.C. are getting wealthy.
And there seems to be no value on the lives of the Ukrainian men, and that might apply to even Israeli IDF soldiers today.
The U.S. corporations may not value those soldiers as long as they're making the profits.
In their view, it doesn't matter how many, quote, foreign young men die.
Yet you and I, I think we agree on the fact that every young man and woman everywhere around the world has value and is a divine being and is worth saving or protecting.
Does that make sense?
It not only makes sense, it's said with poetic effect, Mike.
And I'm so grateful for the chance to talk to you because as you're speaking, I'm thinking of a poem by Matthew Arnold that was written at the turn of the 20th century.
The poem is called Dover Beach, and some of the closing stanzas are pretty close to this.
He says, Love, let us be true to one another, for this world before us has neither hope nor certitude nor flight from pain.
And we are here on this darkling plain, swept by confused alarms of struggle and flight.
While ignorant armies flash at night.
And that was Matthew Arnold in Dover Beach, you know, before World War I. And the sense is that the world gets pulled into these wars, millions of innocents are killed, and it's time for us to recognize that the science of human relations requires us To be able to rethink how we handle our differences, how we resolve them.
Yes.
In fact, I would say that right now at this moment in history, we are seeing more awareness about that very point where we have to find a way to coexist as human beings of different ethnicities, of different religions, of different colors and genders, because the alternative is mass slaughter of each other.
I was asking myself this morning, What would our world look like if every nation reacted to its neighbors in the way that Israel is doing right now?
And that would be a world of blood and suffering.
None of us want that outcome.
So how can we stand by and be silent that this is happening in this one case and with a risk of escalation?
Well, you, myself, and others are not standing by.
We're challenging the A sharply interiorized logic of not just a conflict, but of the rationale behind the conflict, which is certainly political, which is territorial, which covers resources, which has a biblical subtext, okay?
And this merges into this recitation of self-justification which Prime Minister Netanyahu is engaging in on a daily basis of the massacre of tens of thousands of people and decimating their homes.
We have to get what's going on in the moment here.
And while I do understand my Jewish brothers and sisters' long-standing concerns about Israel not being destroyed, I also tell my Jewish brothers and sisters that the path that the Israeli government is on right now is not only destructive of the Palestinians I
Exactly.
I don't advocate.
And so I I think that we can simultaneously be for the survival of the state of Israel and the survival of the Palestinian people.
But we have to recognize that there are elements who don't believe in either of those things.
And that's where it requires the dexterity of not just diplomacy, But of an open-hearted conversation about, hey, look, stop the killing because it always comes back.
It's circular.
It's a rising tide of bloodlust, which does not relent until everybody's dead.
And so what I am concerned about right now, Mike, is that we're on a path right now by standing by and not cautioning Israel to stop We are on a path which will inevitably entrain the United States into conflict in South Lebanon, because that's part of the Greater Israel Plan, which Netanyahu and the ultra-nationalist members of Likud are about.
They want the Greater Israel, which is not just West Bank and Gaza, depopulate those areas of everyone who isn't Jewish, depopulate the areas in Southern Lebanon.
They're already dropping leaflets showing people to get out.
And to create this dream, it's a dream that some have of a greater Israel.
However, in pursuit of that, the danger is that they spark a major war with Hezbollah in Lebanon, and then the potential of Iran getting involved, and then China, and then Russia.
Hey, there are some people who I believe that Jesus is coming again soon on the plain of Megiddo.
I think it's very important for Christians to stay as close as we can to Jesus.
But I think that we kind of We are able to work out our own fate as far as when those end days are.
I'm not looking at a clock, but I'm not in a hurry to create them.
That's a really critical point and I can speak to that because many members of my audience are Christians.
And I've heard something a little frightening from some of them, and I've received a little bit of pushback, but there seems to be among certain people, not the majority, but some Christians, this idea of accelerationism, which is to try to accelerate the end times events almost, and this sounds really twisted, but I'm going to say it, Almost in a sense of there has to be a certain amount of blood spilled in order to summon the return of Christ.
And I'm thinking, that's not the Christ that I know.
I'm not in the bloodshed to accelerate end times events.
I think that Christ taught peace, and that if we are living in the teachings of Christ...
Then we must practice peace with each other.
And that includes peace with those who may be of different faiths as well.
And that's where I've received quite a bit of pushback on that point right now.
And I'm wondering, like, do they know a different Christ than what I know?
Because my God is a God of peace.
How about you?
Well, you know, as a Christian, you know, someone who studied Christ, I mean,
all of those recitations speak to not just an invocation of peace, an exhortation of peace, but they also speak to Almost a vibration, a unified field that we try to create every day and peace in our lives.
Now, my own study of Christ and the Bible, and I certainly am familiar with Revelations, is that since we do have free will, we have the ability to make choices about what happens in our lives.
And while I'm someone who respects people's religious beliefs deeply, Because there's so many paths to the divine.
We have to be careful, I think, about subscribing to a certain narrative that accelerates the end of this physical world, which is the place where we're supposed to work out our fate, our spiritual journey.
This is where we do it.
Here.
We're located.
And so I think we You know, if we're all made in God's image and likeness, and I believe we are, if this world is sacred because God made it, then I believe he did and it is, then we should take better care of God's creation.
And my personal belief is that While there's differences with languages and races, colors, creeds, it's like a ray of light representing human unity going through a prism, and it divides, it fractionates, but it's still part of a ray of divine light, the creation of God, what God created.
And that we ought to respect that.
And we ought to be humble about being amidst God's creation and reflected in so many different types of people and places.
And it's all a reflection of something universal in that I see it.
We're all one.
We're interconnected.
We're interdependent in a way that we have never been as human beings.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Completely agree.
What do we gain?
See, I'm so glad you're taking this conversation in that direction, because I've been asked by people, do you have faith?
And sometimes I answer, I don't even need...
I mean, yes, I have faith, but I don't need it to be just faith because I have evidence of God's existence every day all around us.
In people, in biology, in the plants, in the forests, in the miracles of the molecules that are synthesized by plants, molecules that can help prevent disease, for example, health and nutrition.
These are miracles occurring every day all around us.
I don't have to be a, quote, believer when I'm seeing the...
I mean, yes, I'm a believer, but I'm seeing it all the time.
And yet, how can people be so blind to think that we are separate from them?
There's that other tribe over there.
And, oh, we have to exterminate that tribe.
They're not human.
They're not children of God.
We have to eliminate them.
We have to carpet bomb them.
I don't understand where that can come from.
And it is astonishing to me and highly disturbing that I'm seeing so much invocation of hatred right now in this time when there's a desperate need for us to come together and learn to live together on this relatively small planet, by the way.
What are your thoughts to that?
Well, first of all, your recitation of...
Of the presence of the divine in everyday life.
It reminds me of a song I heard when I was a child called, I Believe, that some of your listeners or viewers will remember the words.
It's every time I hear a newborn baby cry or touch a leaf or see the sky, then I know why I believe.
And I think that The beliefs that we have in the divine connects us not only to God, but to each other.
And the ideal of human unity, that we are all one.
Look at the human genome theory.
Think about this.
Yes, exactly.
We are all 99.9% made of the same stuff.
Yep.
Image and likeness of God.
Temples of the Holy Spirit.
I mean, what a privilege it is to be here on this planet, but at the same time, what a responsibility we have to follow God's commandments, chief of which is thou shalt not kill, and to remember the teachings of Matthew and others about whatsoever you would have anyone do to you, you do to them, or love your neighbor as yourself.
These are all principles that people, many of us, try to live by.
But when any of us stray from that, or any of our brothers and sisters, whatever their faith is, move away from that, every great religion has the same teaching.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
It's in the Talmud.
It's in Koran.
It's in the Bible and other religions.
We need to call upon the spiritual guidance at a time when we can't figure out politically, our limited minds can't figure out how we work this out diplomatically.
Go back to spiritual principles.
That's why we have spiritual principles.
Those are the guides that give us some direction in times of crisis, particularly in times of crisis.
And yet we're not doing that.
Matter of fact, what's happening is spiritual principles are now being used to justify slaughter.
And that is twisted.
And, you know, we have to be very careful about What our representations are about what our connection is to the divine.
That's right.
Not at any moment to believe that we're godlike in our authority, in our ability to say who's going to live and who's not.
I'll never forget this portrait I saw of Saint Michael basically chasing Lucifer from heaven And the words in this poster were, quios ut deus.
Who is like unto the Lord?
It is not for us as human beings to use a God-like power to decide these people are going to live and these people are going to die.
It is not for us to do that.
It separates us from...
from God when we do that.
And this really today is not just a political challenge.
This is a spiritual challenge we face as a nation, as a world.
And yet, you know, there are those look I believe in separation of church and state, but that was never meant for America to be separate from spiritual values.
We have to reconnect with those spiritual values at this time where the name of the United States, the resources of the United States, are being used to murder people in a land, you know, thousands of miles away.
Yes, yes.
And some of what you said there, Reminds me, you talk about how we should not misuse scripture and think that we have the power.
I would say, in my opinion, I'm seeing Netanyahu as someone who is misusing scripture and misusing the resources of his country.
Now, I know you're not one to sharply criticize other leaders of nations, but I would like your opinion.
I have...
I am one to sharply criticize sometimes, and I've called for an international criminal court investigation and war crimes charges to be brought against Netanyahu and Gallant and others in the IDF. And I would also add that I believe most Israelis do not support Netanyahu.
That was clear in the last election.
And so I'm not condemning the people of Israel or Jews or Judaism.
Rather, I'm saying that Netanyahu has misused the power that He sees a hold of and is misusing that.
But again, I'm not going to put words in your mouth.
What would you say about Netanyahu right now?
I've met him on a couple occasions.
The first time more than two decades ago.
He is a very wily politician.
He certainly is skilled in politics and he's a survivor.
Look at where he's at right now.
In the last election, he was faced with a potential ouster.
What did he do?
He put together a coalition, but this time he had to put together a coalition with a minority of the Likud that were described as ultra-nationalists.
Some of their adherents, you had Ben Gavir, Smotrich, and they represented A faction which believed in Greater Israel, which believed in reconstructing the temple on where Aqsa is right now in Jerusalem.
They believed that the Palestinians should not be on the land, just push them out by any means.
So he made book with them.
Why did he do that?
Because he had to stay in power because he was under criminal investigation.
And he's really staying in power to stay out of prison.
He is a smart politician, but sometimes he's too clever by half because he's locked himself into this situation where his very survival depends on prosecuting a war.
While he didn't have that kind of support that you spoke of, you're right, of the Israeli voters, he does now.
Israelis, by and large, support What the government is doing in Gaza and the West Bank.
Like it or not, this is everything that I'm hearing from my friends who are in the region.
So where does it lead?
He needs to find a way to extricate himself and his country from this.
And the United States must help.
The United States cannot stand by and continue to see this massacre occur with our resources, with the money that we've put in.
Since the founding of Israel, we've put $158 billion into the country, most of its military expenses.
And we really have to be quite concerned about About having a simultaneous identification of the objectives and aims of the United States of America and the objectives and aims of the State of Israel.
Because they're not simultaneous.
They aren't the same.
We cannot permit the direction of the United States to be determined by any other government anywhere in the world.
This is about our sovereignty.
This is about who we are as a country.
And while we have a strong relationship with Israel, I don't have a problem with that.
We must not ever let any other country who we have an affection for lead our international decisions and our international policy.
John Adams warned about that years ago.
He said, you know, beware, and he wasn't the only one, beware foreign entanglements.
And we are in a foreign entanglement right now, and it does not serve the interests of the United States of America, and it does not certainly serve the interests of Israel or of the Palestinian people.
So there is something about America asserting its sovereignty and asserting its integrity as a nation, but we've lost that capacity for some reason, and it's time for Americans to start asking some hard questions about what are we about?
Are we just going to get hijacked and have our power and our strength and our young men and women spill their blood in the Middle East because of some crazy political situation that results because of somebody being on a verge of indictment?
Well, I think...
Just responding to that, I think one of the best demonstrations of this twisted policy where American lawmakers, they tend to put Israel first and America last.
One of the best demonstrations is that we rush the U.S. Navy to the Mediterranean Sea, to the region there to defend Israel's borders, but There's no defense of our borders.
Not even a rational immigration policy, which, as you may know, I support rational immigration.
I'm married to an immigrant.
And I understand that immigrants bring many wonderful properties and contributions to this nation.
And in many ways, they actually value America more than Americans do, in many cases.
So I'm a proponent of rational immigration, but not wide open borders where everybody goes through.
So why do you suppose, in your view, Why do we rush to the defense of Israel or rush to the defense of Ukraine also, but have nothing?
Let me just, you know, with respect to both, there's three different things you're asking about.
One is Israel with respect to Hamas.
Another one is Ukraine with respect to Russia.
And a third is our southern border in Mexico.
Let me address those individually.
First of all, with respect to Russia, One must be aware of the United States State Department and its long-standing ambitions to compete militarily with Russia.
The Orange Revolutions were all about putting Russia on the back foot.
The United States I drew Russia in by licensing the new Ukrainian government to attack eastern Ukraine in the Donbass.
They knew what they were doing.
There's just no question about it.
And Russia moved to defend that area, and that then was interpreted as Russia's attack on Ukraine.
I oppose the whole enterprise.
We started off this discussion talking about the hundreds of thousands of young men and women who have been wiped out in battles there.
Ukrainian and Russian.
That did not have to happen.
That was a call that was made by the machinations of a State Department that was misguided and a misperception of power.
The idea that somehow we're going to assert our primacy in that region ended up blowing up in America's face.
The cost of energy went up here.
Russia's economy wasn't damaged.
Everything they thought they were going to do to hurt Russia never happened.
And so now Russia is part of a new economic alliance with Brazil.
Russia, India, China, South Africa.
And there was devastating economic consequences to Western Europe during all of this as well.
Germany.
I mean, the energy prices go through the roof.
That's right.
And so, you know, this is something I also wrote about on Substack.
So that wasn't necessary.
That was a disaster and a major foreign policy disaster that was executed with the help of the United States of America.
So that's one.
Okay, now let's go to what's happening with Israel.
Now look, I have no problem with the United States being in a position of saying, well, you know, if Israel's under attack, if Israel's threatened as a nation, and they ask for help, okay, you can do that.
But, not what's happening here.
What's happening is that Israel has gone on the offense.
And they may call it defense.
They may say, well, we need to do this in order to survive as a nation.
Well, that's the Netanyahu government's line.
But no, this is ethnic cleansing.
It is genocide.
And it's trying to depopulate areas so the current cabinet's The majority can work its will with respect to this idea of greater Israel.
Now, that's none of the United States of America's business.
We must not be involved in those kinds of things.
Yet we are, and we're getting dragged along, and we could end up getting dragged into World War III unless we assert our own sovereignty and our separation.
Now, go into the border, the southern border.
If you don't have borders, you don't have a country.
Hello?
Why is it difficult for the United States of America to understand the need to have borders and the need to regularize the entry of people into the country?
And the fact that the borders were essentially deconstructed and anybody could come in and we know that some of the people come in represent criminal gangs.
And we know that people are trying to come to America in search of a better life.
There are, you know, migrants now all over the country and in big cities just trying to find a way to survive.
It's a horrific situation.
But if we were very clear about having a border and a closed border, we wouldn't be in this situation.
Again, if you don't have borders, you don't have a country.
And we have lost the plot on that.
And we need to reestablish our borders, make them secure, and provide a means for people who want to immigrate to the United States to be able to do so.
And so that's what I stand for.
You have to keep in mind that a number of the wars that we've potentiated around the world created mass migrations of people.
Good point.
Really important point.
This is all intertwined.
I mean, we are creating human refugees.
You know, we are causing economic crisis.
Destitution in many areas.
We are causing so many problems that then come back to us.
For example, look what happened with the Nord Stream pipeline.
And then look at the blowback on Germany's economy.
Look when we cut off Russia from the SWIFT system.
What happens?
Then we can't trade with Russia.
So Russia actually ends up investing in its own domestic economy rather than offshoring money, and Russia becomes very strong in terms of industrial output, while the West is hurt by the lack of, you know, fertilizer and aluminum and other things and energy coming out of Russia.
I mean, it's like...
I agree with what you said about the State Department earlier.
And these are my words, not yours.
But I would describe our current State Department leaders as incompetent, ignorant.
They have no understanding of history.
They are power hungry.
There's a level of psychosis, I think, probably involved.
Again, that's my opinion.
But they don't know anything about what they're doing at this point, but they have nuclear weapons and a United States Navy and cruise missiles and these kinds of things.
It's a very dangerous recipe, and I think we're seeing some of the results of that.
What are your comments?
Well, certainly elections have consequences, and the people who come into office with a president can have a major impact on world affairs.
If My concern has always been that the United States ought to be a beacon of light for the world.
That we cannot be telling people all around the world, it's my way or the highway.
It's not a way to conduct business.
Yet there are people who, when they get the power of an office, they think it's their power.
It's not.
It's the power of the people.
But they assume it.
To be there is, again, that assumption of a godlike power to be able to direct events here and there.
No, it's not for them to do that.
The United States' role in the world can be and should be beneficent.
Now, can we compete economically?
We need to.
Absolutely.
I mean, this is one of the reasons why I oppose all these trade agreements.
That let our industrial base start to be dismantled.
And yet, and I believe in economic competition, but military competition?
What's that about?
That's where we started this discussion at the beginning of the show about these interest groups who come in and they use the soul of our nation to distort what America stands for abroad And so we're all about military might.
Well, yeah, we need the ability to defend our country.
I don't think there's any American out there who would fail to defend America if we were under attack.
But again, we go on the attack in these other countries with massive military power that nobody can match.
Does anyone think that there aren't consequences for that?
That there's not something that happens to us as a result of hurting other people?
You know, we're never going to get over this Iraq war that we visited upon the people of Iraq, over a million dead Iraqis as a result of lies that we were told about weapons of mass destruction and how they're going to attack us.
Now, you know, I have, with 16 years in Congress, Mike, you know, I met a lot of the people who are these decision makers.
And in many ways, they're just, you know, people like anyone else, except they get the power and they decide...
Who's going to live and die in other countries?
Wow, really?
I mean, wow.
That's extraordinary.
Really?
And so, I think we always have to remember that there's a spiritual element to life because if you forget that, then you figure you can do anything to anybody and there's never any consequences.
And we must not live like that.
Well, this is...
We must believe that there is...
A spiritual and moral responsibility we have to each other as not just citizens of our country, but citizens of the world.
And whatever happened to live and let live.
I know, I know.
But you're describing properties of people who have wisdom and maturity.
And, you know, to see in others reflections of themselves and their own joys and dreams and desire for a safe family and opportunities for their children.
And yet we don't see that kind of policy among many of our leaders.
And again, it crosses, you know, both political parties.
But I want to ask you this related to that.
Are you surprised at the backlash that we're seeing recently by young Democrats?
We just saw yesterday, for example, this rather vigorous protest in front of the DNC by mostly younger Democrats who are wearing peace or ceasefire now shirts and jackets, I believe.
And they were scuffling with police.
And there's quite a strong demographic, or I should say age divide, Between those even in the Democrat Party, who on the older side, they tend to support this current war or supporting Israel in attacking Gaza, whereas the younger Democrats absolutely are strongly, strongly opposed to it.
Are you surprised by this fracturing right now?
I think we need to reach out to the young people to let them know that the world that they've inherited is not the one that has to be this way.
To let them know that we're not here to be in a veil of tears.
We're not here to have destruction all around.
Young people today were born just around 9-11, the Iraq War, and on and on and on.
They're seeing this war right now.
Young people understand intuitively when their own future is being threatened.
Economically, certainly, spiritually, politically.
The future knows when the place which God has prepared for it is being threatened with annihilation.
So the voices of the young people are those voices that are calling to us from a future that has not yet been realized.
Asking us to create a world of peace where they may live, where they may live out their lives and their destiny and their loves.
And we have an obligation to listen to the young people, to what they're telling us about our country, about our policies.
And to listen deeply and to be guided by that voice calling to us, not just from the present, but from the future about the country that needs to become more than it is right now, more than just a military juggernaut, more than just a heavy fist that can be put on a table anywhere in the world, more than just an assertion of some kind of omnipotent power, but that has a conscience, a moral compass, a care about its own people.
I care about its own children.
And when you love your own children and you love the children of the United States, you must also love the children of Israel, the children of the Palestinians, and the children all over the world.
But that's not what we're seeing right now.
Right, right.
Well stated.
I want to give out your web address again for your petition.
It's act.kucinich.com.
That's right, act.kucinich.com.
And this petition, by the way, is to gather a momentum for peace, for making a statement that this is who we are, this is what we stand for, that we don't have to accept this condition of endless war.
Mike, we have to break this thinking that says that war is inevitable.
Peace is inevitable if we can find it in our own hearts, our own spirit and soul, to be able to take the benediction of Christ himself who said, my peace I give you, my peace I leave unto you.
And we need to grasp the deeper meaning of that and to try to live our lives peacefully in this country, but also to have our relations with other countries be guided by those principles.
It doesn't mean we're going to be walked on as a nation.
I wouldn't hesitate to defend the United States of America if called upon to do so.
But we must never misuse that power.
And right now the power of the United States of America is being misused.
I completely agree with you, but in the few minutes we have left, and thank you for your time today so far, we're going to wrap this up shortly, but there's a real danger of a miscalculation of America's power.
And I think you would agree with that general statement.
But let me ask specifically, I think many current leaders of the Pentagon and the State Department still think we're living in 1991.
They still think that...
In fact, you hear a lot of the same rhetoric right now.
You know, if we don't kill them there, then we'll have to fight them at home.
And the U.S. military might is the most powerful in the world.
But, you know, since...
That's true in many ways.
But since then, you know, Iran in particular...
It's populated by many very, very capable scientists and engineers and mathematicians who have built very capable ballistic missile delivery systems.
Russia, in particular, has very advanced hypersonic missile systems that the U.S. military does not possess.
In fact, U.S. testing on that was canceled recently.
We just don't have that capability.
Russia has the most advanced anti-air defense systems.
And even Hezbollah.
Regardless of what our viewers might think of Hezbollah's politics, as a military force, they have anti-ship missiles, for example.
And they have hundreds of thousands of rockets that can threaten Israel, and many of them are guided.
So we're not living in 1991.
We're not just fighting goat herders with AK-47s.
If this escalates, we would be facing some very, very capable foes.
Do you, sir, do you think it is possible...
That the U.S. State Department and the Pentagon have miscalculated their proficiency in eliminating all threats that they would target in the Middle East.
The State Department, yes.
The Pentagon, no.
There are generals who clearly understand that we're not in a position to start moving troops over to the Middle East.
They know that.
They, America, and we always have to be cautioned about fighting the front wars on too many fronts, particularly if they're not our wars.
But Iran, you mentioned.
Mathematics, science.
I mean, the Persian culture is very steeped in science and math.
And we sit back and think that, well, you know, we could destroy anybody.
Iraq has for 40 years been preparing a defense against being attacked.
We cannot...
The worst thing when you have great power, you know, military power, is to have a sense of arrogance about its use.
And the people in the State Department, most of whom have never, ever had to put themselves on the line or had anybody, you know, they hadn't had to go into battle themselves.
They're kind of the armchair generals.
They really shouldn't have a say.
In directing our military assets.
The Pentagon, you know, yes, there are people in the Pentagon who are gung ho for wars.
My dad was a Marine.
He was not gung ho for war.
He was gung ho for defending America.
And we are being injudicious in our use of power.
And we have to call on those generals who do know better.
To step forward and to be heard.
There are people in the State Department, by the way, who are contesting publicly the direction that Mr.
Blinken and others are taking the Biden administration.
That's right.
We're seeing a lot of internal backlash right now.
I can tell you there are people in the Pentagon who are saying, whoa, wait, we're not ready to do this.
China has the biggest navy in the world right now.
They have the biggest Coast Guard.
China has a supply of intercontinental ballistic missiles, Russia many more than we have.
What is this about?
Where does this end?
What is this impulse that some people have to try to march us directly into World War III? I'm saying, hey, wait a minute.
If people want to commit suicide, I see a counselor or something, but don't drag the rest of us into that.
Don't drag us into it.
I love this country.
There's so much more we can do for our own people with our resources.
There's so much more we can do to help people around the world.
But I have to tell you, you know, all that begins at home.
Charity begins at home.
We ought to start taking care of our own.
We have people sleeping on the streets or not from other countries or from America.
We got people who don't have decent homes, who can't afford the rent, who can't afford their food, who can't afford fuel, who can't afford healthcare.
And so shouldn't we kind of Go back to that idea of the shining city on a hill, who we can be as a nation, be the model for other nations, instead of just saying, well, you know, if you don't agree with us, we're going to wipe you out.
Yeah, right.
That's not foreign policy.
I mean, it shouldn't be, but sadly it is among the State Department.
Congressman Kucinich, it's been a real honor to have you on today, and I want to mention your book.
It's called The Division of Light and Power.
I'm showing it on Amazon here, but it's available at booksellers everywhere.
The Division of Light and Power, folks.
You can check out that book.
And, Congressman, I just want to say I'm really honored by your courage to speak these words that you've shared with us today and for you taking a stand on peace, for peace.
And it really gives me hope.
It really does.
I mean, your voice, I've listened to many of your interviews the last few days, it's given me a sense of refuge for humanity because it's very easy.
I have been so disillusioned.
With so many people that I once thought might have hope or be leaders and I've been very disappointed.
But your words give me hope once again and I mean that.
So thank you for joining me today.
Mike, back at you.
Thank you for this conversation.
Time went very fast, but I hope that down the road that we can do it again.
Thank you so much.
I'd love to do that again.
Thank you as well.
And folks, the website is act.kucinich.com.
If you want to join the petition, go ahead and sign up there.
Enter your name and email address, and you'll be kept in touch about the plans to call for peace from Congressman and author Kucinich.
And again, we thank him for his time with us today.
And thank you for joining me here on Brighteon.com.
Again, uncensored speech.
This conversation probably could not happen on a lot of other platforms, but it does happen right here on Brighteon.
And I hope you know and I hope you agree with me that we stand for humanity with humanity.
We are pro-human.
We're on team humanity.
And we're not on one tribe, one political side or the other.
We think for ourselves and we defend humanity every chance we get.
So thank you for joining me today.
God bless you all.
Take care.
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