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Aug. 31, 2023 - Health Ranger - Mike Adams
50:37
Elizabeth Rattray and Karen Johnson sound alarm over toxic waste...
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Welcome to today's interview on Brighteon.com.
I'm Mike Adams, the founder of Brighteon, and today we're joined by first-time guests who are pro-environment people like we all are.
We all want to live in a clean environment, but specifically they are fighting against what I would characterize as the dumping of toxic waste, some of it stemming from the East Palestine accident, into another area in Ohio because of some rather strange zoning laws that allow, I don't know, the staging and the burying of really toxic waste in that area.
So we're joined now by Karen Johnson and Elizabeth Rattray, who have also been on with the Resistance Chicks and Scott Kesterson with Bards FM and other podcasts and interviews as well.
Welcome to the show, both of you.
It's great to have you on.
Thank you for taking the time to join me today.
Thanks for having us.
Absolutely.
Well, thank you for all you're doing.
I know it must take a tremendous amount of energy and effort, and you're fighting against a system that is toxic itself.
So how about this?
Give our audience kind of an overview of what you're dealing with and what you're trying to accomplish, and perhaps the legal strategies that you are employing as well.
I'd like to start with what we're facing from a zoning standpoint, and then Karen's going to give you a little more of the science that we became aware of.
Okay, sounds good.
We live in a township, so it operates a little bit differently than other municipalities.
We have three branches of government and The middle man, which is a team of about five people, they write the zoning resolution, the laws that govern the uses of land in this area.
I was able to help write the land use plan with great attention to detail about how we would protect and kind of guide thoughtful growth in the community, where things should be, what should be, what should not be here.
I also served on the Board of Zoning Appeals.
So that being said, I became really familiar with the topographical maps and just where things would be placed.
Sort of the dream, the ideal plan of how this little once farming community would grow.
Well, sitting on the couch one evening, seeing the East Palestine train derailment happen, we Immediately I became aware that I thought, oh no, it's coming here.
And sure enough, within 48 hours, I would say, everything was in place and the ball was set in motion to start receiving it.
What we weren't aware of, it was actually fortuitous, I hate to say it, that it had happened because it woke us up.
Can I interject here?
When you say to start receiving it, you're talking about the post-cleanup waste, which was a lot of water, plus some other materials, right?
And they were put on trucks and then shipped to where you are.
Yeah, and it's all sorts of building material, mud, dirt, water.
Anything that was in its path, in the path of the spill.
And this company has been positioning itself for a number of years to be allowed to expand their operation from just incineration to a greater capacity to store, aka bury, toxic waste.
So some of this waste is going to be buried without being incinerated.
It will be incinerated.
However, they are self-monitoring.
They'll be in charge of incinerating it and burying it on their own land.
And the thing that's most alarming for me about it is the location of the land.
There is a waterway that runs right through their property that is a tributary of the Black River, which pours into Lake Erie.
are drinking water, which is over 11 million people drink that water.
And as part of the Great Lakes, if you remember from science class, it's the largest surface water supply on the planet.
And this is in Lorain County, you said before, correct?
Lorain County?
Yes.
And I don't know if this is a question for Karen, or either one of you can chime in, but the incineration temperatures that are achieved during incineration are absolutely key to which molecules are destroyed versus which molecules are released into the atmosphere.
Is that correct?
Yes, that's correct.
Exactly.
And dioxins are particularly difficult to destroy, which means, I'm just guessing, that if the incineration is not incredibly efficient and carried out at very high temperatures, they're going to be releasing dioxins into the atmosphere.
Is that a concern?
It is, but the other concern is that the dioxins are going into the ash.
And the dioxins...
If you look, there's a site, TRI National, and it is an EPA website.
And you can see all of the toxins that are either coming out the stack or being shipped off-site.
And the ones that are being shipped off-site are the ones that we're talking about.
They're the ones that are the ash.
And if you look at that ash, they're in the top 100.
I think there's 70 some on the top producers of dioxins in the country.
In terms of just total like annual mass, excuse me, of dioxins.
Yes, yes.
Wow.
And they were shipping it off site.
They're actually shipping it up to Romulus in Michigan.
But they want to keep it within our basically small community.
And that's what we're fighting against.
We have water issues in our community and drainage issues.
And the last thing we want to do is for that to mix together.
And then it ends up in our waterway.
Absolutely.
Nobody wants a landfill.
And this is 23 acres, 50 feet tall.
It's in a residential agricultural area.
I mean, there's farming right next door, which is what they're doing as far as this incineration.
And we're not testing the food there.
We're not testing the soil in the neighboring farms that I'm aware of.
And we have data.
They're within the confines of the law as far as the Clean Air Act.
But I look at data on that TRI National.
And for 2021, 25 pounds of mercury went into the air and 15 pounds went into the ash.
That's a 37.5% recovery.
So most of that stuff's going into the air.
Now, the stuff that isn't going into the air, incineration doesn't make things magically disappear.
You're actually trying to retain, especially the heavy metals, into that ash.
And there's dioxins in the ash.
There's other chemicals in the ash.
And that is what's destined for this monofilm.
They're saying they want to mix it with kiln dust, which is a waste product of the Portland cement industry, and put water with that and turn it into something that's going to somewhat solidify, so it's going to be concretous, and also put some limestone in there.
But I've done a little research, and putting the limestone in does not bind the metals.
In fact, it allows them to still continue to flow into the leachate that they're going to be collecting.
And then the leachate then has to be collected and contained.
And then they claim they're going to burn that to get the metals and the hazards out of that.
So what process is available that would completely dismantle these dioxin molecules into their atomic components and make them relatively harmless?
us.
That's one thing that I don't know.
I haven't looked into that.
Are you aware of what process?
Well, I know you could use a plasma torch.
That's what we use in our lab.
But it takes a tremendous amount of electricity.
You'd spend a fortune running everything through that.
But a plasma torch breaks down molecules into just carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, you know.
All their components.
And then that's harmless at that point, or relatively harmless, except obviously the heavy metals.
You still have mercury and cadmium and all of that, but you could deal with that in various ways.
Elizabeth, let me go to you on this.
Do the town planners, do they understand that?
The degree of threat that dioxins, you know, we're talking very like femtograms or nanograms of this material can be extremely toxic and they're bioaccumulative over time.
Do the people there understand that?
Not only do they not understand it, I think they see us as alarmists.
It's been an uphill battle lately.
It has been insane.
If you think about the fact that the zoning of where their incinerator sits right now was approved by some of the people who are still serving in their capacity.
There are people who are either assigned to those positions by the people who are voted in.
They looked at the wording of the article in our resolution that allowed them to designate the 83 acres that the incinerator occupies as heavy industrial.
However, prior to that, it was like maybe 2014-15.
There was no heavy industrial district, per se, in this community.
It was created so that they could continue to operate because they were already operational.
And a lot of the things they were doing, it was before there were regulations even to monitor it and know what we were even dealing with.
So they were bringing them into compliance.
However, I think they seized the opportunity by having their Lawyer helped frame the wording.
Read it.
May I take the liberty to read what it says?
Sure, go ahead.
This is what is allowed.
This is what is permitted.
Storage, transportation, disposal, burial, burning, processing, solidification, metals recovery, reduction of acid and caustic levels, incineration and related activities with respect to solid and liquid waste and other materials and compounds regulated by the United States, the state of Ohio and incineration and related activities with respect to solid and liquid waste and other materials and compounds regulated by the United States, What?
To public health.
Yes.
You don't hear that word every day.
Yeah.
Right.
By the United States.
So that's a description by the government, by the state of Ohio and other political subdivisions, and fly ash and organic metallic materials, substances-related and ancillary uses, including, but not limited to, settling ponds, landfills, impoundments, reclamation control, and monitoring facilities and activities.
Who in the world would put a rubber stamp on that?
Yeah, good question.
And say, yeah, let's permit that.
It also seems to be based on this false assumption that if you bury something, it just vanishes forever and that it stays where you put it.
Now, we all know it doesn't stay where you put it.
Things move, especially when water is involved, i.e.
rainfall and the water table and runoff and erosion and Soil microbes altering things and also just the shifting of soils and clays themselves through water expansion and contraction in the seasons, all of that.
So things move around.
You say they're putting this right next to farms and near waterways that go into Lake Erie, you said.
So why isn't the EPA concerned about this?
Are they rubber stamping the whole thing?
You have to realize that the EPA, as long as your request is within the confines of the law, they have to approve it.
And so that's what they told us.
In other words, they're just an approval organization that's also regulatory, and they don't choose where it goes.
It's sort of like if you want to build a house, you can build it wherever you want to go.
You want to build your house as long as it's zoned appropriately.
But this went in before zoning really was enforced.
And they were literally dumping.
They had lagoons and they were dumping hazardous waste on the land in lagoons back starting in 1949.
And there actually was a lawsuit in 1971.
Our Eaton Township had an anti-pollution leak.
And they got together and they sued Ross, and they put a permanent injunction on the ban on the dumping.
And we're not really sure why that doesn't apply, but we did notice the name is a little bit different.
It was Robert Ross Industries or Industrial or something then, and now it's Ross Environmental.
And I don't know if that's protecting them, but we're still looking into that lawsuit.
It was something we just recently uncovered.
So are you planning on the possibility of suing or taking some kind of legal action?
If we had the funds, and right now we've spent all of our time in research and really none of our time in, you know, Raising any capital.
And we really are desperate for funding.
I believe we need probably fifteen or twenty thousand dollars if we were to file an injunction and use that prior lawsuit as a basis.
If we didn't do that, we need about three thousand dollars in order to put together a referendum with an attorney.
And if if they vote this through the trustees vote this through, which the prosecutor's office actually seems like they're recommending.
Because they're afraid of a lawsuit.
And so if it is voted through, then it goes either if we raise the funds for an injunction or a referendum, which we really should hire an attorney to put the wording together for.
And then we'd have 30 days to collect signatures to get it on the ballot and then to do an advertising campaign in Eaton Township to get people to vote.
How can people financially support you?
Elizabeth?
We have set up a Venmo account, and it's at ZMamaBear.
So that's where it would go.
And we also have a Facebook page that gives you a little bit more information about what we're doing.
And the Facebook page is Stop Toxic Spread.
And we also have an email address, stoptoxicspread at gmail.com.
Alright, so the Venmo account is, you said, ZMamaBear, just like it sounds?
The letter Z? Yep.
At ZMamaBear.
Yeah, okay.
At ZMamaBear.
Got it.
And then you gave out the email address and the Facebook page.
Okay, that's great.
So a lot of people can reach you there.
And the financial numbers you mentioned there, Karen, also seem even kind of low.
You know, to take legal action, you're going to need some serious funds.
But, you know, even...
Gosh, even if you were to get an injunction, it doesn't clean up what's already in the ground, does it?
Correct.
And those numbers are low.
That is based on if that other lawsuit is good.
If that other lawsuit isn't going to help us, then we don't have a nuisance.
That was a nuisance lawsuit.
We don't have a basis to tag onto.
Then it would be a lot more.
Our hope right now is to raise enough funds for a referendum.
But if we could get more, we would be really excited, actually, because we recently had a couple attorney referrals that sound very promising.
And the other thing I wanted to mention is that because we were talking about East Palestine, there was the liquid waste and there's the solid waste.
What they're doing with the liquid waste, they're taking that to Vickery, which are injection wells in Sandusky.
Which is only a few miles from Lake Erie.
And they're just injecting raw waste into the ground.
And the EPA has said in 10,000 years they're not expecting it to migrate more than 5 miles horizontally.
Well, they're 4 miles from Lake Erie.
So I guess we don't look to the future, and I really don't know how they do that modeling.
And it's 1,600 feet from drinking water.
But they say that there's some shale deposit or something between the drinking water and the hazardous waste.
And I don't know.
That is the sweeping it under the rug right there.
Well, yes, or sweeping it under the shale.
In this case, the geological claims are impossible to verify unless you hire a geologist who understands all the different strata of materials there.
And that's going to cost thousands of dollars.
But they tried to take a lot of this material to us here in Texas.
I'm in central Texas.
And they tried to take it to the Houston area.
And the Democratic congresswoman from Houston raised all hell about that and got them to turn those trucks around.
But, you know, my question to both of you is, I think that was Jackson.
Sheila Lee Jackson actually got them to turn around and get that out of Houston.
Now, my question to you, though, you're familiar with the acronym NIMBY, right?
Not in my backyard.
And, of course, none of us want toxic materials dumped into injection sites or water tables or soils near us.
What do you suppose should be done with these materials?
And what would be an appropriate solution?
We talked about that.
But I think one of the things we need to do is come up with a different way of living.
I mean, we need to stop the endless waste stream where it's starting.
And we also, I really believe that our country needs to start incentivizing invention and the use of that invention.
And I say that because my husband works for Ford.
And I don't agree with regulation for regulation's sake.
But if you put incentives out there, and that's what they did with the CAFE standards.
That's what they did with fuel economy, you know, with emissions.
And it got the companies working together, collaborating.
And they came up with some incredible, you know, improvements in the auto industry.
And right now, we're having issues with the batteries on these batteries.
Electric vehicles, because they're highly toxic, but I know Ford is now collaborating with Tesla, and they're going to try to come up with a battery that's 90-some percent recyclable, for real.
And that's what I believe we need to do.
The other night I was watching a program, and they talked about, you know, before we went to the moon, we thought it was impossible.
And then Kennedy had this speech where, we're going to get a man on the moon.
It's like, well, how are we going to do that?
Well, you first set the goal.
And we're not really talking about that.
We're talking about carbon dioxide, which if we really wanted to handle the carbon dioxide and we really start incentivizing regenerative agriculture and healthy living and cows grazing and, you know, changing our lifestyle, I really don't believe that would be that big of a stretch.
The bigger stretch is getting rid of the plastics.
Getting rid of these man-made things, like we're going to get a semiconductor plant in Columbus area.
Well, what's that going to do?
And is it coming here because we have four hazardous waste incinerators in our state?
There's only 22 of these in the whole country, and we have four in Ohio.
Well, you know, the polyvinyl chloride is one of the materials that was on that train wreck in East Palestine, and the vinyl chloride...
When you deal with chlorine atoms in these materials, and then you have a fire, that's how you get dioxins.
And chlorine is, in various forms, is obviously extremely toxic even to the hormonal system.
That's one of the mechanisms of dioxins is they strongly interfere with hormonal systems, which means infertility.
It means neurodevelopmental problems and cancers and all kinds of things for generations, right?
This is a multi-generational problem because it can be passed from the mother to the child and the eggs developing in the female child can be altered by the presence of chlorine and so on.
That's why this is so toxic for generations to come.
And I know you know all that, but I agree with what you're saying.
If we had a consumer demand side of things where people weren't demanding so much PVC, right?
That would change the whole equation.
By the way, PVC sucks as a material.
It's horrible.
It breaks when it freezes.
It's not a nice material.
There are other materials that are far better, like cross-linked polyethylene, which doesn't contain chlorine, for example, and it doesn't produce dioxins when you burn it.
So I agree with you.
In our society, we have this throwaway society of buy it and throw it away, or buy it and burn it.
I live in Central Texas, like I said, and You may know this, but one of the top sources of dioxin contamination is farmers and rural people burning household trash, which includes their plastics, and there's plastics in clothing.
So they just burn a barrel of clothing, and boom, there's dioxins all downfield.
Go ahead.
Elizabeth, you were going to chime in.
I was just going to say, that's actually how this company started.
They started with...
With the guy, Mr.
Ross, driving around in a little truck, collecting people's, the farmers who lived here, their trash, and burning it in barrels and backyards and places all over this community.
Wow.
And then it went from there.
But it's been...
They've come a long way.
I don't want to sound like we're just bashing them, because honestly, they provide a necessary service.
Like we were just saying, humans, we like our conveniences, and we create trash.
We create garbage.
So in order to...
To combat that, we have to start being able to make sacrifices that don't feel like sacrifices.
In our house, we don't buy...
When we leave the house, we leave with our stainless steel or our glass water bottle.
I take water with me everywhere I go.
We don't buy.
Right here.
Water.
Stainless steel bottle.
That's what I drink out of for years.
Yeah, I don't drink out of plastic, if I can help it.
And I don't store my food, our food storage containers.
I don't want to use the T word because it's an actual brand.
But those plastics, mine are all glass.
They're glass and ceramic.
But packaging, that's the tricky one.
Because Laundry soap, dishwasher soap, dishwashing soap, hand soap.
I mean, all these things, they're coming in plastic.
And it's very difficult to choose otherwise.
My supplements.
I mean, I take supplements.
They're all in plastic bottles.
There's a few of them in glass bottles.
Oh, yeah.
No, we've looked at the same issue.
We've looked for materials that can replace plastic and supplements because we sell supplements.
And to date, every other material that's available out there that is biodegradable is too porous and it allows oxidation and moisture contamination, which ends up in mold.
In order to have an actual airtight and moisture-proof barrier, plastics or glass, or, you know, of course, you could use stainless steel, but that would be cost-prohibitive.
But you're right.
This inundates our society in so many ways.
And what about electronics?
I'm old enough to remember when you used to buy some electronic device, it didn't come with a piece of plastic on it.
It was just electronics in a box.
Now everything has a piece of plastic that you have to peel off.
And what is that plastic for?
It's a plastic sheet on every edge of every electronic thing.
And there's no purpose for that other than to have a new feeling.
Which is nonsense.
They should be getting rid of that stuff.
Yeah, I think it's right.
But I think that's a little minor compared to the fact that we have now disposable everything.
Even our washing machines are disposable.
I mean, what, eight years?
A TV lasts eight years.
I mean, where do we put all this stuff?
I really think that it's because of the way our economy is structured that we have to keep buying in order for the economy to be healthy.
You're right.
We need to shift that away, and I don't know how that can be done.
Well, you know, GDP is measured by consumption, right?
Yes, it is.
So it's all about consume more, consume more, consume more.
Oh, here's stimulus money.
Go out and buy more.
Exactly.
Just keep buying.
Keep throwing away.
Yeah, I heard something really interesting.
I know someone who knows who was heading up Republic Waste, actually the parent company of Republic Waste.
I don't recall the name, but they're out of the Northeast United States.
And he said that the numbers on plastic, it isn't that we're actually reusing it.
That's a number that waste haulers can bid on to buy that category of waste.
That indicates how many BTUs you can get off of that waste.
Oh, my.
They're burning it for fuel.
Yeah.
And they're doing this with tires, too.
I don't know if you've heard that.
They're chipping them up.
Tire chip places that are burning this stuff for energy now.
Power plants running on tire chips.
That is insane.
And the communities are like, not here.
I don't want you to burn entire chips in my community.
And that's sort of where we're at.
We really need to be having a national discussion on this and incentivizing solutions.
Well, I completely agree with you.
In fact, if you think about the natural molecules of the world that existed before industrialization, if we had left them where they were, They're mostly non-toxic, you know, for even fossil fuels.
You know, if you leave the oil in the ground, it's not toxic to life on the surface of the earth.
But when you take the oil out of the ground and then you start synthesizing these plastics, and by the way, these pesticides and herbicides, and in some cases certain pharmaceuticals and all kinds of poisons that you synthesize from hydrocarbons, And then you release those onto the planet.
Now you've taken something that was non-toxic, i.e.
oil in the ground, and you've made it highly toxic and you've distributed it across the entire ecosystem.
And that's what humanity is particularly good at doing, is poisoning the surface of planet Earth.
Yes.
Well, we're all in agreement on that.
Yes.
Amen.
The solutions are evasive, though.
They're costly.
And there's denial of this problem, as you know.
I've been testing supplements for heavy metals for many, many years.
I'm one of the few people in the world that runs a mass spec lab that looks at this stuff.
And we've seen crazy levels of mercury and things.
And nobody really seems to care.
Even the regulators don't seem to care.
We've reported numerous issues to the FDA over the years that we thought were highly alarming.
Nothing ever happens.
They don't care.
I didn't realize that.
I know they're all over trying to get rid of homeopathic medicines, though.
Yeah, right, right.
Which has nothing toxic in it whatsoever.
Heaven forbid we'd be well.
Then we won't need to buy all their chemicals.
Right, exactly.
So, this is, I mean, who's helping you?
Who's on your side on this?
We really are going to need to be careful about what we divulge, because I know they're monitoring everything we say and everything we do, and they're three steps ahead of us.
They're a multi-billion dollar company, and they're shrewd, and they've been ruthless and really good at what they do.
All that to say, we do have allies in In and outside of the community, we are consulting with legal representation and weighing our options, getting an idea of what things will cost us, timeframes, what we're up against as far as the decision, the actual vote.
Karen mentioned the referendum.
That would be wonderful.
If the voters vote it down, who are they going to sue?
Right now, there's this looming, you know, It's out there.
I can't say that they have said definitively that they're going to sue the township if they don't get a yes vote.
But there's so much that the township, the leadership is not able to say because of, and they keep using the word, well, to the litigation.
I'm like, well, what litigation?
We went to the courts.
There's nothing on the dockets.
There's no history, no information available.
So that tells me it's not litigation that exists.
It's the threat of Well, and you should.
And, you know, let me point this out, too.
The corporate press used to be on your side back in the 1970s and the 1980s.
You know, you think like Erin Brockovich and others and other, you know, sort of mainstream environmentalists at the time, Silent Spring and so on.
Today, and I guess I'm going to direct this question to both of you.
Don't you find it odd that the corporate media now is no longer opposed to, you know, environmental pollution of any kind, except carbon dioxide.
That's the one thing that they're always angry about, CO2. But not heavy metals, not pesticide runoff, pharmaceutical runoff, dioxins.
They don't care.
What's going on?
It is my belief that the people who own those few, because the media is only operated by probably three major pockets, purses, and they benefit from it.
Follow the money.
I used to work for the local ABC affiliate, and it was eye-opening to see the news that we get versus what really happened.
Right.
Well, Karen?
Well, I was going to say we have tried to engage the local newspapers, and if we say something, they question what we say.
But if they interview Ross, Ross can correct what we say or override what we say, and there's no chance for rebuttal.
And there's things that are just printed that are absolutely incorrect.
Like Ross says, you know, the incineration basically is producing steam.
It's like, you know, water vapor.
And that's not true because there's heavy metals in it.
And they also say that it renders the ash inert, but we still have to call it hazardous ash because the EPA requires us to because it has heavy metals in it.
So it's not inert and, you know, non-toxic if it has heavy metals in it.
And, you know, they print that stuff in the paper, and I kind of laugh and roll my eyes, but other people are reading it.
I don't know if you're not a technical person if you know what they're talking about.
Yeah, exactly.
No, I found this to be true, too.
Mainstream journalists really don't have the scientific background to understand pollution, contamination, water-heavy metals or elements versus molecules or anything like that.
In fact, let me put this out there.
Since I run a mass spec laboratory and we are unique, I think, in the country of being...
Perhaps the only private lab that has mass spec dioxin testing equipment.
We would love to get some samples that you can acquire from around your community where you think it's relevant, and we'll run those tests for you for free to look at dioxin levels.
And we're testing for not only the primary dioxin, but kind of a complement of related molecules.
And I believe our instrument can detect at...
Yeah, I think it can see femtograms on column with a microliter injection.
So the sensitivity is almost unimaginable.
We can detect this at very low levels.
So is it possible you could get us some samples down the road?
It's possible.
Are you familiar with Scott Smith?
Doesn't ring a bell.
He is a private person who's doing testing of East Poundstein soil.
Okay.
And he has actually taken a lot of samples.
And I did contact him at one point, and maybe I'll see if I can find that contact information, because you may be able to hook up with him.
He's claiming that the dioxin levels are like 100,000 times higher than the EPA is saying they are in that soil.
Well, we would be able to confirm that if that's the case.
I don't know what instruments he's using, or maybe he's sending it out to an outside lab, do you know?
I'm not really sure.
I believe he probably is sending out to an outside lab because I know the EPA said, well, they were using a similar lab.
I see.
But he was not only testing soil, he was testing furnace filters for people that were living in East Palestine and finding them high.
Right.
So he was just doing a lot of that.
And I would think that he, I don't know if he still has the stuff or if he'd be willing to go, you know, and get more soil.
Our area, it's not like a ground zero for an event, except on Ross's property.
And I don't know that we can sneak into Ross's property.
No, I'm not encouraging you to do that, but rather, you know, you're mentioning waterways, for example.
Yes, we could do something like that.
Those are easily accessible.
Right, right.
So, you know, public waterways or public lands that you think might be downstream from incineration patterns where there might be fallout.
Typically, you know, for example, we've seen in China, for example, they do a lot of incineration of Of materials that have heavy metals in them, and then farmlands next to those incineration facilities are heavily contaminated, often with lead.
And we see tungsten a lot also, by the way.
For example, we've detected tungsten in a lot of rice protein from China.
And tungsten is used in, you know, power tools manufacturing because it makes really hard, you know, high-density tools for your drills and things.
Well, but you don't want it in your rice, you know?
Right.
Right.
But, yeah, the more you look, the more you're going to be disgusted with everything that's going on in our world because it's a massive, just in a general sense, it's a massive cover-up of the contamination that's taking place every day across all the farms.
I was contacted by someone when we set up the email and I started sending out messages to some of the community groups.
I was contacted by someone who was a former employee at Ross that had access to information that the ash that they ship from their facility here in Eaton Township to Michigan Was multiple times turned away because it was not completely incinerated.
It wasn't up to their standards.
So they had two choices and these were the exact words of this person.
I have it in writing.
They said they were told that the company could either pay to have it returned and reprocessed or pay to make it go away.
I thought, what does that mean?
But we also know if that ash isn't completely incinerated, the chances are the temperatures aren't high enough to utilize the toxins.
And they're still reporting what's coming out of that stack to the TRI, to the EPA. Well, that's very worrisome.
I'd have to look up the correct science papers, but I do believe that to fully incinerate dioxins, you need to be above something like 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit.
Right, and I believe they're processing somewhere around there.
That would make sense, but if you have incomplete incineration or incomplete combustion, which can happen from several factors, for example, not enough oxygen supply to the incineration chamber, then you're going to get incomplete combustion, and then you're not going to get the full breakdown,
and you could, at least theoretically, I'm not saying that's what this company is doing, but theoretically you could just be releasing dioxins out of the smokestack that are just going to fall I think that your concerns are valid.
You obviously need a lot of additional legal assistance and some scientific testing to determine, is there a very real presence of toxic substances in the waterways or in the nearby farmlands?
If you could establish that, then that would go a long way on a referendum or even perhaps talking to the media.
That's true.
And are you familiar with Mark Hyman's work with, he's talked about the GSTM1 gene that's missing in 30% of the population?
No, I'm familiar with him, but not that particular topic of his.
Okay, that is a gene that involves glutathione.
And I am one of the people that's missing that gene.
And it makes it so that you can't properly, easily, readily detoxify heavy metals.
And he's found that the majority of the people that he deals with that have chronic health issues have that particular gene missing.
And I have heavy metal allergies as well as I have a difficult time detoxifying.
So...
I'm sensitive to that.
I've mentioned that a few times in meetings.
I don't even bring it up anymore because people look at me like I'm a kook.
What you're saying has a very real scientific basis.
We talk about the biological, quote, half-lives of metals.
It doesn't have anything to do with radioisotopes.
It just has to be with how many days or weeks it takes for the body to eliminate half of the circulating heavy metals, right?
So mercury has a biological half-life, and you're right, Karen.
It varies based on the physiology of the individual.
And some people can eliminate metals very quickly and some people can't.
In fact, I've seen a lot of research talking about those children who are made autistic following certain vaccine injections can be traced to their inability to clear the metals that other children can clear quite easily.
That may be one explanation.
Aluminum, in this case.
Aluminum can be highly toxic if you can't get rid of it.
If you can get rid of it, not a problem.
If you can't, it can cause neurological damage.
But that's just one example.
But look, we're about to wrap up this interview, and I just want to say, first of all, I admire your courage, and I know our audience appreciates what you're doing, sounding the alarm, digging more, making efforts here to try to get more information and resolve this.
I want to encourage you to give out your Venmo again, but what else would you like to leave our audience with for this interview?
I would like people to look in their communities and see what's happening, especially with zoning, to protect themselves, because we didn't know.
And it's not just hazardous ash.
It's regular landfills, but we have a new thing, biosolids.
They're dumping human waste on farmland here.
Yeah, well, I'm the one who made the movie on that called Biosludged, and it's all over the country.
In this community, right at the same time.
And I think it's coming into smaller communities because we don't have the ability to stand up for ourselves as easily.
And in Ohio, it's a little bit unique in that most states, zoning is set at the county level, the commissioners.
In Ohio, it's set at the trustee level as far as townships.
So we're easier to stomp on.
It's easier because they don't know.
I mean, they really don't have any experience in girls.
So, I think that people just need to open their eyes, look and see what's going on with the government, and actually engage with the government, but also do what they can to limit their use of plastics and other things.
As much as you can reuse, and just become aware of the issue.
I think that's the first thing, Steph, is awareness.
And we really need to move forward and do something about this.
And Elizabeth will go to you in a second, but let me add to what Karen just said.
Here in Texas, the sewage from the city of Austin is repackaged into bags and it's branded Dillo dirt.
And it's sold in the local hardware stores as dirt for your garden.
So people are quite literally growing strawberries and vegetables in human feces.
Because it's dishonestly labeled Dillow dirt.
And in Milwaukee, it's called Milorganite, by the way.
I knew that.
Yeah.
Because they even carry that here, Milorganite, and I won't touch it.
It's human feces.
And whatever waste people flush down the toilets, that's all it is.
And pharmaceutical drugs.
Birth control pill, chemicals, Sudafed, whatever, cocaine people flush down the toilet.
It's all in there.
All of it.
Right.
Yep.
Elizabeth?
I'd love to see people become more involved and more aware.
So I'm just going to piggyback on what Karen said.
I was kind of raised that way.
My parents, they had their hands in all sorts of pies because they knew that that was going to elevate and protect our quality of life.
So I knew that.
So I volunteered.
I volunteered my time to help write the land use plan.
I worked on the Board of Zoning Appeals, and it was dirt pay.
I think it was $25 or something like that back when I did it.
And I didn't do it, obviously, to get rich.
But what I'm finding is when we share this information with large groups of people, what I've been doing is going to the community groups that are on social media.
A, they're completely unaware.
What are you talking about?
How is this?
What?
I didn't know.
And on top of it, there's like this over...
It's almost like they don't want to believe.
They're like, oh, that couldn't happen.
Trust me, it's happening.
It's happening all around us every day.
You're eating it, drinking it, breathing it, whatever.
They think we're nuts.
We come here and they're like...
Oh, it smells so good in here.
I'm like, that's because we have whole house air purification.
The air is ionized.
And they're like, wow, your water tastes amazing.
That's because we have whole house water purification.
I had the water tested.
I wanted to know what was in it.
And I matched a system that eliminated what I didn't want.
And primarily it was lead and chlorine.
Those were the two biggest things that we needed to eliminate.
So it just...
Getting people to motivate and encouraging them.
I feel like a cheerleader, but I also feel like one of those, who was the weeping prophet in the Bible where everywhere he went, they were like, get out of here.
We don't want to hear that.
You know, it's like they don't want to know.
They don't want to be educated in many instances, or they're content to see you sit back and we'll wish you luck.
Good luck.
Right.
Well, I'll tell you what, write a check.
Right.
If you're not going to do the work, then help us get it done.
Meanwhile, your communities all across America are plagued by cancer cases.
And people go in and they're dying of cancer, sometimes in their 30s and 40s now, and doctors say, well, there's nothing you could have done about it.
Actually, there was something we all could have done about it.
We could have stopped polluting our food, our soils, our water, and our air with cancer-causing chemicals.
That's exactly what we could have done about it, but most people didn't want to deal with it, and so they got cancer and they suffered and they died.
And that's just a fact.
The response to that, though, is more drugs.
I work as a Medicare broker, so I help seniors and disabled people understand what medically is available to them to pay for their care.
And that was another eye-opener for me.
It's like, okay, this person has XYZ wrong with them.
Well, let's give them ABC pill.
Or let's cut them open and take out a part they need.
It's like, oh my gosh.
What in the world are we doing?
Well, we're going to have to wrap it up there.
But you've been on point on everything.
And I want to give out your Venmo again is Z or at Z Mama Bear, correct?
Correct.
Okay, what's your Facebook page again?
Stop Toxic Spread.
Stop Toxic Spread.
And your email address?
Stoptoxicspread at gmail.com.
There we go.
All right.
And Karen, I want to thank you as well for your time and your passion on this topic.
And please keep in touch with our producers so we can get some samples from you as we start to crank up our own dioxin testing later this year.
We just received our equipment, but it's going to take us a couple months for installation and method validation.
Okay.
Once we do that, we'll start.
Very much appreciated.
Thank you.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
We're also going to go to the grocery store and buy milk and cheese and meat and just test that and see what happens.
That should be horrifying.
But we'll see.
Be careful what you ask for.
That's what I've learned in the lab.
Be careful what you want to see.
All right.
Well, thank you both.
And God bless you both.
And just thank you for your passion and your courage.
We appreciate you.
Thank you for having us.
Thank you, you as well.
Absolutely.
All right.
Thank you for watching.
This has been another passionate and eye-opening interview, I hope, here on brighteon.com.
Feel free to repost this interview on other channels and reach out to these women if you want to have them on your show.
If you're an influencer or a podcaster, or if you want to offer donation or maybe some legal assistance, they can use your help.
And we are fighting.
I mean, not that it matters or anything, but just the future of the So, you know, you may want to put that on the priority list if you want to have grandchildren who can have babies.
So, just saying.
Thank you for watching.
Mike Adams here, Brighton.com.
Take care, everybody.
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