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July 24, 2023 - Health Ranger - Mike Adams

01:47:02

Episode 6 - July 24, 2023 - BEAM Privacy coin project interview with Alex Romanov

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	Welcome to Decentralized TV.
	I'm Mike Adams, the founder of Brighteon.com.
	And I'm joined, of course, with my co-host, Todd Pitner, who is back from his deep sea fishing trip.
	Welcome, Todd.
	It's great to have you back on the show.
	It's great to be back.
	Even though I didn't go deep sea fishing, we got rained out twice.
	You planned to, at least that's part of it.
	Yes, we did.
	It was another failure, but, you know, I went to the grocery store and we bought some grouper.
	Does that count?
	You could have done that from Florida, my goodness.
	Okay, well, it's great to have you back.
	We missed you on the last few episodes, but we got you in on the reaction, so that's great.
	Now, we got a really special guest lined up.
	You're going to love this, Todd, because we're going to be joined today by Alexander from BEAM. The BEAM project.
	BEAM.MW is the website.
	MW, of course, stands for MimbleWimble.
	So BEAM is a privacy coin that uses the MimbleWimble blockchain structure, plus some Lelantis on top of it, and it's really going to be a fascinating discussion.
	I think you'll love this, Todd.
	So welcome to the show, Alex.
	It's great to have you on.
	Thank you for joining us.
	Hi.
	Thank you for having me.
	Hello, everyone.
	It's great to have you here.
	And there's a little bit of a lag because you're joining us from halfway around the world, but that's to be expected.
	Your video is actually very good.
	So...
	We love privacy coins here on the show, and we're interviewing a lot of founders and pioneers of different privacy coin projects.
	This is true.
	The way I found out about Beam was when Binance published a list of which coins that they banished from their exchange, Beam was on the list, and I had my staff reach out to every coin that was listed That was being dropped by Binance.
	So we have to thank Binance for bringing us together.
	But tell us a little bit about Beam, kind of an introduction.
	Of course, thank you very much.
	So, Beam is a project that started back in 2018 and it went live on January 3rd, 2019.
	And January 3rd, 2019, for those who are familiar with Bitcoin, it's the 10-year anniversary of the Bitcoin Genesis block, so it was a very symbolic date for us to go to kind of release our mainnet.
	So back in 2018, there were several different projects that already tried to solve the issue with privacy on blockchain, and they create various mechanisms to provide confidential transactions.
	At first even Bitcoin itself was assumed to be anonymous because initially people thought that if you create a lot of addresses nobody can know that they're yours but in time it was proven to be not exactly the case because once centralized exchanges came and became very popular and you had to provide your KYC or know your customer routine which involved Showing your real passports,
	credentials, when you register with an exchange, it became much simpler to trace those transactions.
	And since blockchain, as you know, stores everything forever, it's only, you know, needed to de-anonymize you once, and then you can browse the entire history of your transactions.
	So it was clear that Bitcoin anonymity was not good enough.
	And several projects, such as Monero, Zcash, and a few others, were the pioneers of this space.
	The problem was that these mechanisms that those new projects added, they made the blockchain much heavier in terms of blockchain size, which was already an issue back in the day.
	And there was this very unusual white paper that was published in November 2016, I think it was a little bit earlier than that, that It was published anonymously, which was interesting in and of itself, just like Bitcoin Whitefavor, which, as you know, was published anonymously.
	And it described a very interesting approach to creating confidential transactions without actually sacrificing the blockchain size.
	So it was called Mimblewimble.
	And for those of you who are not familiar with the Harry Potter universe, I obviously was not, and my daughter had to explain to me what it meant.
	So the Mimblewimble is a name of the spell from the Harry Potter universe, which the spell that prohibits you from disclosing secrets.
	So it's very appropriate in that way.
	Right.
	So this white paper is really simple, four pages long.
	However, it's It introduces a very interesting concept.
	It basically takes the structure of Bitcoin transaction and changes it in a way that you get both of these benefits of added anonymity, complete, basically complete confidentiality and allows to reduce the blockchain side.
	So back in that day, there was already another project that has already started implementing this protocol.
	It was called Green.
	And a few people actually know that, but beam as the kind of the initial meaning of the name of the project was a play on the word green.
	Like green is this kind of a smile and beam is a wider.
	Oh really?
	That's interesting.
	I didn't know that.
	Yeah, however, this meaning was very quickly lost and when we designed our logo, it all became about light and refractions of light and the logo actually involves the prism.
	So that is mostly the people associated these meanings with them today, but originally that was the idea.
	So hold on a second, Alex.
	Let me jump in here right now and also want to give Todd a chance to react.
	But first, I want to say I have listened.
	Now, let me just back up.
	Todd was the person who actually first educated me about the Mimble-Wimble blockchain.
	I watched like 20 hours of his videos at first.
	I started to learn about it.
	And that was many months ago.
	And now, Alex, I've watched probably at least 20 hours of your videos as well, and you are very technical.
	And you did a really excellent broadcast.
	You have a Beam channel on YouTube, and one of your most recent broadcasts was where you were describing basically the main categories of four or five types of privacy coins that exist.
	There are really not that many types.
	There's confidential transactions, There's Mimble Wimble, there's Zero Knowledge Proofs, ZK Snarks.
	That's pretty much what's out there.
	But Todd, isn't it fascinating that you came out of the Epic Project, which was also originally forked from Grin, and then here we're talking to Beam that was also inspired by Grin, although there's been a lot of changes since then.
	What are your thoughts so far, Todd?
	Well, I'm just delighted that Beam is using Mimble Wimble.
	And I don't know.
	You know, I started covering Epic Cash for like two and a half years and started out as an absolute newbie.
	Knew nothing about blockchain technology, but I am very, very fond of privacy and I think that is a human right.
	So I just naturally started marching to the privacy drum.
	Why did you specifically decide that Mimblewimble Tech fit your vision?
	And can you share with us what your vision was by, in essence, forking Grin, right?
	That you forked Grin?
	No.
	Oh, no.
	Oh, okay.
	Well, explain it then.
	How then did you...
	Or you were fond of the Mimblewimble technology and you integrated that.
	Maybe you could back up and just kind of tell us about your launch and why you strategically decided you wanted that.
	And I'm also curious how you launched.
	Was it a fair launch?
	Was there any pre-mine?
	If you could kind of give a little insight into the tokenomics.
	That would help me kind of process all this.
	Yeah, 12 questions for you, Alex.
	Go for it.
	Of course, of course.
	Okay, so one of the founders of kind of, let's say, ideal founders, right?
	They're not people who actually like The idea came from one of the people that can be considered the founder of Beam Project and he was a long time and very experienced crypto-enthusiast and professional even though he worked mostly on miners and mining related projects back in the day but he was the one who found Green and Mimblewimble And he really liked
	the protocol.
	He really liked what it brings to the table.
	One of the main advantages is that the mech behind the Mimblewimble is very, kind of, you know, graspable, right?
	Unlike ZK Snarks, which is very sophisticated, very difficult to understand.
	Mimblewimble actually uses a very, kind of, Easily understandable mechanism, which is called the Pedersen Commitment.
	And it just says, listen, if we structure our UTXOs as a Pedersen Commitment instead of the Bitcoin script as it is in Bitcoin, we can gain all of these advantages.
	And as I said, the entire paper is just four pages long.
	So the simplicity of the protocol is what attracted us and the fact that you have both the benefits of Completely private by default transactions.
	And this is very important to have all of the transactions in the protocol private by default, because if you have a mix of private and non-private transactions, it severely limits your privacy and actually reduces it.
	So that was how it started.
	I'm sorry to interrupt, Alex.
	Let me jump in.
	I just got to provide some context for the audience because we got to remember we're talking to a lot of people who some of these terms are going over their heads.
	So privacy by default means that the coin always functions in privacy mode.
	There's never a non-private mode.
	For example, in Zcash, almost all the transactions are non-private, but you can choose shielded transactions, which I think only represents maybe 3% of the transactions in Zcoin or something like that.
	And also to distinguish this from Monero, Monero uses ring signatures, and Monero's got a lot of great developers that are working on some really cool things, but the way it works right now is your wallet ID essentially is In the blockchain,
	but it is obscured by 15 other IDs so that no one can say for sure that that transaction, and the amounts are hidden as well, but no one can say that transaction belongs to your wallet ID. So as a result, it's a little bit, it's a more bloated blockchain.
	Although, you know, it's become more efficient over the years.
	And again, Monero's working on a lot of great improvements.
	We're going to learn about that in future shows.
	But what MimbleWimble does is because of this elegant, simple structure that doesn't require zero-knowledge proofs, the wallet IDs are not encoded in the blockchain.
	So there's literally no way for anybody to ever break the stealth addresses or to break the I wish I could
	articulate like you do.
	No, I just got to summarize it because in our world, we talk about this every day, but we got to remember the audience, this is all new stuff.
	Yes, yes.
	And is it fair to say that...
	You know, there is a bounty on Monero that if somebody breaks that open, I think it's $750,000 by the IRS. So maybe one day there'll be a supercomputer that's able to be able to do that.
	And they can reverse engineer all of the transactions.
	But with Beam, correct me if I'm wrong, Even if somebody broke the code, they would go in and it would be like opening up an empty box.
	There would just be nothing in there.
	Is that fair, Alex?
	Yes, absolutely.
	There is no identifying information stored on the blockchain at all in Mimblewimble.
	So this is one of the very interesting advantages in privacy.
	So yes, and all the values are...
	Encrypted.
	So yeah, if you ever break using quantum computing or whatever, you will just see a bunch of numbers.
	There will be no identifiers whatsoever.
	And the blockchain of BTC is very heavy because it contains all of the transactions, all of the history.
	I believe it's 450 gigabytes or more.
	What is the size of the Beam blockchain?
	Much less, I'm sure.
	Yeah, it is much less for several reasons.
	First of all, we unfortunately have a little bit less users than Bitcoin.
	As a result, less transactions.
	For now, we'll see.
	So, first of all, you can see everything you want.
	You can create an archive node and store all of the information, but the One of the advantages of being a limbo is that you do not have to.
	In order to run a new node, you only need to download a very relatively small portion of the blockchain history while still being able to completely verify that it is correct and, you know, follows correctly from the Genesis block.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Very cool.
	So, I apologize, Alex.
	We've interrupted you a couple of times, but you may proceed.
	And I'll probably interrupt again when you get too technical, but go ahead.
	Let me get to the two other parts of the first question.
	So Beam was implemented from scratch in C++, unlike Green that was built in Rust.
	We basically started from an empty page and we took the white paper and we implemented the white paper.
	So we did not fork green and we did not borrow code from green.
	However, I would like to emphasize that the very fact that green existed gave us a lot of confidence that first of all, it can be done.
	That it's a practical thing to do.
	So there wouldn't be a beam in a way without green because we, like, even though we didn't use directly what they were doing and we did a lot of things differently, we did maintain a very good relation with the green team for the entire, like, time of the development and the long after.
	And we were inspired by their project.
	So that's important to emphasize.
	Like a lot of kudos to them.
	So regarding the launch model, what we have done, we have chosen the path that is called the Treasury.
	It's not a pre-mine, and it's not an ICO. In ICO, you basically sell a bunch of tokens for the money, and then you have the money, and then why would you build anything?
	You just take the money and run, right?
	That's most like the ICO model.
	And instead, we wanted to create the best possible alignment of incentives between all of the stakeholders in the projects, which are the initial investors, because BIM was founded as a regular company.
	It had investors.
	And also the team, obviously, and also the community.
	So what we did is for the first five years of project existence, 20% of each block reward that's created by miners goes to the treasury account.
	And from there it is distributed to early investors, the team and the BIM Foundation.
	So the BIM Foundation has the biggest portion of this allocation to run the project for the first five years.
	So that's the model that we have chosen.
	Now, does that percentage decrease over time?
	So it stops abruptly at five years.
	Oh, okay.
	And where are you on the five-year timeline right now?
	So the five years will end in January 2024.
	So we are like six months away from that point.
	Okay, wow.
	All right.
	And then at that point, then all of the mining rewards go to the miners?
	Exactly.
	It follows the halving.
	As I said, there is periodic halving every four years.
	The first one was up to one year, actually, and then every four years.
	So on January 3rd, 2024, or thereabouts, because the block time is not precise, as we know, what will happen is, first of all, the second halving will occur, and the block reward will be halved, and then also the treasury mission will stop.
	Okay, got it.
	Todd, does that answer your question about the tokenomics, or do you have anything else on that?
	No, it does.
	I am curious about one thing, just because I know with Epic Cash, they had something similar, but it's like really, really tiny that keeps going down, that goes to the Treasury, but there's no foundation.
	What do you anticipate?
	Or let me better ask this question.
	I know that to properly build not just a community, but a roadmap, that it takes money, right?
	To get on exchanges, etc.
	Have you been able to fund your roadmap based upon that 20%?
	Is that how that's been done?
	Or do you also go to your own community to be able to raise funds?
	It's a great question.
	So, the short answer is that no, with the current crisis of BIM, we are not able to fund the development, surely not to the extent that we were able to do this when we had an investment until it ran out.
	However, and we are not yet taking donations or direct donations from the community, but what we have done in the recent year and a half, almost, We have changed the governance model from the foundation to the DAO. So it's a little bit going forward because,
	as I said, one of the things that we discovered about Mimblewimble, just kind of to segue into this topic, is that even though it's very simple, this protocol is absolutely amazing.
	It surprised us every time how interesting and extensible it is.
	So we have built over the years a lot of added features on top of Mimblewimble, One of those features is smart contracts.
	And using those smart contracts, we have created a DAO, which is an on-chain organization that we are currently transitioning to.
	So you have a token called BMX, which is the governance token for the DAO. And what we're doing today, as we are moving along this transition, we are financing the development based on bounties.
	So we provide specific bounties for specific tasks.
	And That's how we are funded today.
	Some of these bounties can come also from donations, obviously, but most of them are financed through the treasury model and moving to the DAO. That's how it works today.
	Thanks for answering that, Alex, but Todd, before we get into the weeds on tokenomics and governance and so on, I would like Alex to help describe more of what this can do because, I mean, he just dropped a bombshell there that you can do smart contracts, Ethereum-type of Functionality on top of a Mimble Wimble Layer 1 coin.
	I mean, I don't know that anybody else has done that.
	That's a bombshell.
	And I've been checking out the Beam wallet, and I noticed that Beam is also, they have a really elegant solution to the real-time handshake challenge that Mimble Wimble projects have.
	Actually, let me ask you that, Alex.
	People know that Mimblewimble, for one wallet to send to another wallet, there has to be a handshake.
	So those wallets typically have to communicate with each other in real time.
	They both have to be open.
	Otherwise, the transaction kind of stalls.
	And that's one of the potential drawbacks of Mimblewimble.
	But it's an advantage.
	Coins can't be sent into nowhere and be lost forever either.
	But you have an interesting solution to that, Alex.
	Can you describe that?
	Because I was really astonished when I learned about that.
	Yeah, sure.
	So, in order to solve this problem, which is, first of all, it's a huge usability issue for users.
	It's very inconvenient to be online exactly at the same time.
	What we have done, we have added a mechanism that we called Secure Bulletin Board System, or SBBS for short.
	And it's basically an ability of wallets to exchange encrypted messages that live in the system for about 12 hours.
	So what it means is that you can open your wallet and create a transaction and this SBBS is built into every BIM node.
	So every BIM node by default runs SBBS and once again it's a decentralized system, doesn't require on any central server to be viable.
	And once you have sent this message, the wallet to whom you're sending this message can be online within any period of within 12 hours that this message is live and then complete the transaction with you.
	It's more convenient.
	It doesn't, like, require you to be online exactly at the same time.
	The 12-hour margin is mostly because you do not want to overload the system with, like, just a bunch of messages running there and cause, you know, stress on people running the node.
	Because, by the way, any Beam desktop wallet that you download has an ability to run node, like, built into the wallet, so you become an active participant in the system.
	So, That's how it works.
	And initially we only used it, as you said, for kind of handshakes for the Mimble-Wimble transactions.
	And later we found interesting ways to extend it.
	For example, to create marketplace offers by broadcasting encrypted transactions to a lot of people who would like to participate in them and things like that.
	So that's how we solved this problem.
	So, Alex, and Todd, I know you appreciate the elegance of this, but I want to say what's astonishing to me about this is that this SBBS, as you say, the secure broadcast system or bulletin board system, excuse me, this runs automatically the secure broadcast system or bulletin board system, excuse me, this runs automatically So nobody has to set up something extra or something different, and the nodes run automatically in the wallet.
	So people can just download the wallet, set up the wallet, which I've done on multiple systems, by the way, as part of my testing, and then those wallets are, in effect, also helping to decentralize and broadcast those handshake encrypted messages so that wallets can very easily find each other as long as they're also helping to decentralize and broadcast those handshake encrypted messages so that wallets can very easily find Is that an accurate assessment, Alex?
	And then I'll turn it over to Todd.
	Okay, okay.
	Great.
	So, Todd, what do you think?
	Because you've covered MemoWimble for quite some time, and you know this is probably one of the biggest user issues out there.
	It is absolutely the biggest issue.
	And especially when you consider the UTXOs and the limitations with some blockchains to where if you have 10 coins and you send one coin to somebody and that person has not opened their wallet to be able to receive them, it locks up your other nine coins.
	Which is a big deal, so it sounds to me like this solution with SBBS solves for that too, right?
	It doesn't lock up those other nine coins, or is it the same issue?
	Well no, I think it would.
	I think the UTXO issue is still the same structure, but we'll let Alex answer that.
	You're still spending unspent transactions, right?
	Yes, yes.
	The same issue with UTXO remains and there are two mechanisms that assist in solving this problem.
	First one is UTXO selection.
	So the wallet is optimized to select the best possible UTXOs And that not only goes for the size, but also for the privacy.
	And if we'll get to Leland to Spark, we'll talk about that.
	So the wallet helps you to automatically select the best UTXOs to use in your transaction.
	And if you complete the transaction, the faster you complete it, obviously you will get your change UTXO back so you can use it again.
	Theoretically, you could also start with a self-transaction that first breaks the UTXO into the two parts which you need.
	And we have considered adding this mechanism, but it's possible to implement it, obviously.
	We did not add it because most people use this SPS system and it was kind of pretty immediate.
	Now, in Beam, a block is created every minute.
	So once the transaction is signed and sent, Then, on average, in a minute, you will get your change back.
	Now, if you have sent a transaction and the other party is never coming online, I don't know why, they have deleted their wallet, right?
	You can click cancel and you can cancel this transaction before it is signed by the counterparty and then you can use your funds again.
	And then maybe the transaction later.
	So it's not like locked for you indefinitely and you cannot use it.
	No, but the user has to know that they have to click cancel.
	So there is a user education issue there to make sure that users understand that that's part of the process.
	Definitely, yes.
	Yeah, and so when people are using MemoWemo blockchains, they do need to have this knowledge about sort of, you know, how it works.
	And, you know, Todd, you and I both, I think, on Telegram, we've been educating a lot of people about that.
	For example, we just implemented a tipping system on our platform, brighteon.com, where we now accept Monero and we accept Epic Cash.
	And we'd like to accept Beam, by the way, Alex.
	I think that's easy for us to implement.
	But there were some people who were confused that they were sending tips to other users that had published their address, and they weren't going through because that other user didn't have their wallet open at the same time, and so things were kind of stalling.
	So, you know, we're educating people.
	It's not a bug.
	I would call it an artifact of the structure of the Mimblewimble blockchain.
	Is that a fair description?
	Yes, it's a limitation that comes from this requirement of both parties being, you know, required to sign a transaction.
	But as you mentioned, it has this advantage that you cannot just send money into the void.
	And in reality, you can even extend it to, for example, sign additional metadata, such as a contract or an invoice if you want, or any documentation that you want to attach to this transaction.
	And then, let's say, include the hash of that document transaction.
	So it has this interesting kind of option to add more data because it is interactive and it is signed by both parties.
	There is also the concept of transaction proof because, for example, if you want to send funds to someone, they can say, oh, I've never received it.
	How can you prove that you send it to me?
	So we have added a mechanism called the transaction proof into our wallet and we can say, listen, you have signed this, your part of the transaction with your So we can prove that it was sent to you.
	And here is the transaction on the blockchain.
	We can prove that it exists.
	Wow, so there's a lot of good auditing features in there.
	But yeah, Todd, go ahead.
	You were going to jump in.
	Yeah, quick question.
	Is there a way...
	I remember when I first launched the Epic Pay Wallet and I just restored my seed words from my GUI, which I understand now is not really the right thing to do because there's my whole bag, right?
	So if I sent someone one Epic, my whole bag would be locked.
	Is there not a way within a wallet?
	Wait a second.
	I don't think that's right, Todd.
	I think when you enter your seed phrase and it restores your wallet, it still just lays claim to all the UTXOs on the blockchain.
	Yeah, but I still face that same...
	What they're telling me is I should create a new wallet and then from my GUI send a certain amount, a smaller amount of Epic.
	Well, that would break it up, yeah.
	I mean, you'd have then smaller UTXOs that would be more...
	Yeah, and send maybe lots of transactions.
	But my question is, is there no way within a wallet that, kind of like taking it into the bank, just say, here's a $100 bill, can you please deposit all ones in my wallet?
	You want to break it up?
	Yeah, just break it up.
	Just, you know, put it in a slicer-dicer.
	I don't know.
	Yes, there absolutely is a way to do it.
	Just a feature to implement, a very simple one.
	You will pay for this transaction, you will pay the fee.
	Which is almost zero, by the way.
	Exactly.
	But it's possible.
	Because I think that would solve so much.
	And I like to say I need to dumb things down so that all understand it.
	Because I think I represent a lot of people out there.
	I'm a little bit older.
	You know, I knew how to spell Bitcoin and that was about it.
	But I'm slowly starting to get it.
	You know, Mike...
	Has totally mastered everything in two months.
	I'm still working on it.
	Give me too much credit.
	That to me would be a wonderful solve.
	Who actually designed and created your wallet?
	Or was it a total team effort?
	No.
	So we had a very talented product manager who joined us at the beginning.
	And he worked with a couple of designers, so we had everything in-house, like the entire product and design team was part of the BIM team.
	And they have designed and kind of created the entire kind of usability scheme for the BIM wallet.
	It was crazy amount of effort and work, a lot of deliberations, very difficult because You know, as difficult as it is to grasp the UTXO concept in Bitcoin, it's much more even difficult to then, if you are mastering Bitcoin, to then switch to Wimblewimble and understand all of these nuances of interactive transactions suddenly.
	His goal of this product manager, he was a very big fan of Apple products and the simplicity concept, so he really worked hard to kind of make it look as usable as possible.
	And it is, yeah.
	The GUI wallet is really well designed.
	Exactly.
	And he was a great counterbalance to us, you know, geeks and, you know, technology people, which, as you know, like most of the crypto community are somehow like more technical because they have to be because otherwise they will not be able to use anything.
	And usability is still one of the main problems in crypto.
	So, he was really adamant to keep it as simple as possible.
	And I think the best example, like, there is nowhere in the Bill Morris main screen where you can see the blockchain height, because he says, listen, this is for geeks, this is like these numbers, nobody cares which blockchain height it is.
	I just want to click a button and see the transaction go through and understand where I stand in terms of what's happening to my transaction.
	Where are my funds?
	Are they lost?
	Are we here?
	Are they there?
	Because it's very scary at first.
	You're sending a transaction, don't know exactly what you can do, and you cannot cancel it in most cases.
	So he really worked hard and I cannot give him enough credit for what he has done.
	Well, I got to say the wallets are really excellent.
	Let me show my screen here.
	People can download wallets for, you know, Android, iPhones, desktop versions and so on.
	And there are some pretty amazing features here.
	Like you have apps.
	That are within the wallet that can be activated.
	I was really astonished to see that.
	And apparently, although I haven't done this myself, you've told me there's an ability to create other virtual assets.
	In other words, tokens on top of the Beam coin that are in the wallet.
	So I did go into your wallet and I actually swapped some Beam.
	I acquired some Beam.
	And I swapped some Beam for some of your Beam X, I think it is.
	And I just did it in the wallet, and it all worked.
	And I saw there's all these other assets that other people have created.
	So it's like somehow, Alex, you've created an ecosystem around MimbleWimble with apps and tokens, token creation capabilities, this private messaging system that allows the nodes, the wallets to talk to each other.
	It's more than just a coin.
	So it's a pretty big project that you've taken on.
	Yeah, well, it did not happen overnight.
	As I said, we've been at it for the last five years.
	I think the most important breakthrough came when we have added smart contracts.
	And once again, it's Very interesting possibility that only became possible because of Mimblewimble and how it is structured.
	So in the Mimblewimble, there is this part of the transaction that is called the transaction kernel.
	The technical term, nobody cares, but there are two properties of this part of the transaction.
	It remains in the blockchain forever.
	So unlike intrus and outputs that could be removed, as I said, to kind of compact the blockchain, the kernels are always there and they're always signed by all of the parties that participate in the transaction.
	So we have added a lot of interesting metadata inside those kernels.
	It's all encrypted, obviously.
	And using these kernels, we have kind of incrementally added the atomic swabs, the relantos, a lot of different features, and then we have suddenly had this epiphany that said, wait a second, we can actually say You send a transaction and a kernel says, oh, instead of just moving the UTXO from place to place, could you please activate a function in the node?
	And if so, can we wrap this function into a method that calls other functions?
	And here we've got a smart contact.
	So we have added this virtual machine that we have implemented ourselves inside Beamit, right?
	It actually uses WebAssembly technology.
	And now you can write programs that you compile into WebAssembly and they become the smart content.
	So once we have figured that out, it opened the whole scope of possibilities.
	Interestingly, the new tokens that you can create, they don't require smart contacts, unlike Ethereum, where every token is an ERC-20 contract, smart contact actually.
	But in BIM, the new tokens are not But they're implemented at the protocol level.
	And one of the most important properties is that they are exactly as confidential as BIM itself.
	So that was my next question.
	So all the smart contract functionality where, unlike on Ethereum, where it's not privacy-oriented, obviously, on BIM, the smart contract features are fully wrapped inside the memble-wimble structure so that they are private.
	Is that correct?
	So it's an important distinction.
	We call this a privacy-preserving contact.
	It's not a completely private contact because even though the identities of the senders or whoever sent the transaction to the contact are still private, the values themselves are readable from outside.
	So for example, if you deposit funds into a smart contract, nobody knows it was you, but the amount of funds that you have deposited, it's readable.
	And that's just for the smart contract function, not for the main coin itself?
	No, no.
	Okay, wow.
	Todd, I'm having a little trouble getting my head around all of this.
	What's your reaction to this?
	My reaction is within Epic Cash, there's this whole subway stop ecosystem that was on the roadmap.
	And to me, I don't know your language exactly, but These different subway stops kept popping up in my mind, and I'm like, wow, you've solved for that.
	Wow, you've solved for this.
	And so I come back to the same question because I presume you would not declare your project as a security, right?
	Okay.
	Did you just open a can of worms, Todd?
	I may have, but it's important.
	Let's call Gary Gensler and see if he wants to join the show because nobody knows.
	Well, the reason why I ask is that everything that you have solved for, I know requires devs, and it requires money to pay the devs, unless they're all, God bless them, unless they're all completely 100% volunteers, and that could be the case.
	But I know that it's not easy to advance your roadmap without raising money.
	So if you haven't raised the money from the community or if there hasn't been a certain mechanism, I guess, and the price is such that you're not going to be living off of, you know, a percentage of a penny.
	How do you do it?
	How did you do it?
	I'm astonished.
	Okay.
	So let's break it up into a couple of parts because it's a complex question.
	So in terms of what is a security, first of all, BIM follows Bitcoin ideals.
	It's a proof of work mined from zero coin.
	It's an independent blockchain.
	It's minable on GPUs.
	And in terms of like All the properties.
	It's capped emission, as I said.
	It has periodic halving.
	So we really chose Bitcoin as our role model while we were thinking about choosing the fundamentals for Bin, so first of all.
	The second question is that Beam team is mostly kind of initial team that was assembled and then kind of expanded.
	Most of them were people that I have previously worked with or friends of mine, right?
	So that was the idea.
	And they were all compensated partially with Beams and also they had salaries when we had the money that we raised from initial investors.
	And one of the things that happens over the time, so two things need to happen in order to ensure the longevity of the project.
	One is the team should be in love with the project, and that's what happened.
	Everyone who is on the BIM core team It's still around even if they had to kind of look for other opportunities or do other things, you know, to get, you know, salaries and things like that.
	Everyone is still around and they participate and they contribute, they answer questions.
	And personally for me, it obviously became much more than yet another software project.
	So, that happened.
	We, unfortunately, were not able to create a reaching-up ecosystem for external developers to work on BIM. First of all, because we had everything custom, right?
	It was custom virtual machine, custom smartphone.
	We didn't use Solidity.
	We didn't use established technology stacks.
	So, it was very difficult to onboard new developers.
	We do have a very nice community which supports us, you know, and helps us and provides feedback, so that is happening.
	In order to be able to live for a long period of time, what we're currently doing is we're adding Ethereum Virtual Machine to Beam as well.
	Because we have realized that we cannot just, you know, have our custom technology and then expect everyone else to learn it, so it would be much more efficient.
	Even though we have some benefits there, that's why we chose to implement it ourselves in the first place, but eventually it's important to be part of the growing ecosystem, and today Solidity and EVM are de facto standards for smart contacts in most places.
	And that's what we're doing, and it's going to become live in the next hard work, I hope, towards the end of this year.
	But once again, that's the plan.
	So does that mean that everybody who writes smart contracts for Ethereum, they could just plug and play that code on top of Beam then?
	Yeah.
	Right, so that opens up the compatibility and a whole universe of other applications on top of Beam, but with the additional privacy features that Ethereum doesn't offer.
	Yeah.
	And you say the timeline for that is maybe end of this year?
	So we're currently running tests on the kind of very early stages of the implementation.
	So it's working.
	It's working already, but, you know, there is a gap between it's working and it's good enough for production.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	So that's where we are.
	I have another question, and Mike, you and I have had lots of conversations about this with regard to any project that's out there, right?
	Ultimately, one of the legs of the stool that is so, so important is the leadership and the direction at the top.
	How do you go about structuring?
	I know that as a non-security, right, there is no company, there is no CEO, etc., But you organically have to be able to have leaders who lead.
	How do you go about that?
	Wow.
	It's actually an amazing question.
	It's just people.
	I don't know how to describe it better, right?
	So I will give you a few examples.
	We have, let's say, we have a lead developer, the person who is responsible for the more complicated parts of the implementation.
	So, he is absolutely essential for the many features that you see in BIM today and he invented them, he implemented them, right?
	So, we have people who are Even though they're no longer paid in any way, and they're still very active in the project, like myself and the CEO, who was the CEO of the company and now he's just the operations person for BIM. We have a lot of community managers and members of community who are with us.
	It's just kind of the group of people that there is absolutely no official structure whatsoever, right?
	So, you know, around them.
	But since we're all interested in the success of this project, it becomes a living organism.
	So the blockchain, you know, it never stops.
	And this is, by the way, it's very interesting because sometimes you see a long kind of dead project that are no longer actively developed, but still they have value, they linger for a long time.
	Because blockchain, once launched, if it has enough kind of miners and attention, it becomes a living organism.
	Yeah, like Grin.
	I still see Grin out there.
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	And not just Grin.
	A lot of projects still maintain their value for a long time.
	Even though they might not have active development or even leadership.
	By the way, Green is a great example, because the person who founded Green, he was an anonymous person, and at some point he stepped down, he had some issues that he had to step down, and the project continued.
	There were developers maintaining it, they added new features, even though the person who officially was, I would not say the face, because nobody ever saw his face, but the voice, you know, in a way, He stepped down and, you know, it's fine, right?
	The project continues to live on.
	That's great.
	That's great to hear.
	Look, Todd, let me jump in with a question and a comment here.
	So, first of all, I do want to disclose that I hold some amount of Beam because I've been playing with it.
	And I have a question for Alex about the price of Beam also, but let me intro it this way.
	Just for people watching, what I did, I downloaded the Beam wallet, which is on beam.mw.
	I'm showing that on my screen here.
	And then I went to this site, swapspace.io.
	And since you can't buy Beam on the mainstream exchanges, just like you can't buy Epic on mainstream exchanges, you can trade for it.
	So you send Bitcoin, and then here you can type in Beam, and you can actually get Beam.
	And if you want to do, you know, 0.1 Bitcoin here, whatever, and you can view the different offers and you can do a swap.
	There's all the different exchanges.
	So that's what I did.
	And then I got some Beam and then I was able to play with it.
	I sent it around on different wallets and everything worked great.
	But here's my question, Alex.
	Right now on CoinMarketCap, the price of Beam is 3.9 cents.
	It seemed, I guess in last month, it seems to be kind of trending upward.
	Now, Here you have, you know, Bitcoin is at 30,000 or whatever it is.
	Monero is 165, let's say.
	Even Epic, Todd, is at like 75 cents or whatever it is right now.
	And here we are talking, Alex, your tech seems pretty darn impressive.
	And I don't mean any disrespect at all, but...
	How is it at 3.9 cents?
	I honestly don't understand because, again, the tech, I think, has made a lot of leaps over many other projects.
	It seems to me like this should be more in the realm, a lot closer to Monero, but I don't know.
	I mean, what's going on with this?
	Why is it 3.9 cents?
	Anything you want to answer on that?
	So...
	First of all, let me kind of do a little disclaimer.
	I personally do not ever solicit buying Beam.
	Anything I say is not a trading advice, right?
	Okay, yeah, fair enough.
	We have that disclaimer for the whole show.
	Okay, so I think the shortest answer that is what you will hear from probably anyone who ever works with Beam is that we're terrible at marketing.
	We're terrible at marketing, and that's kind of the short answer.
	Obviously, if we start to break it down, I think that we will...
	You know, we can raise a lot of issues about how we bring awareness to the project, how we kind of bring new users.
	And yes, it's absolutely correct that the price, in my opinion, does not reflect the technical qualities.
	I'm responsible more for the technical part.
	So yeah, obviously, I'm really proud of what we have accomplished.
	And I think it is pretty impressive.
	Yeah, like that's...
	If I could insert myself, Mike, I really like that answer, Alex, because marketing, ultimately, your price is going to go up when you have new users, when you have wider spread adoption, when people get it, when there is utility, right?
	So this channel is called Decentralized TV because it's all about decentralized living.
	So if we do our jobs right, Mike, and we expose more and more people to the power of private crypto.
	Then perhaps there will be better, more widespread adoption of not just Beam or Monero or Epic Cash or any of the other coins that are out there that are privacy preserving, But it is hard and it is very expensive to get new eyeballs and new people to come in.
	And it has to be easy.
	It has to be the easy button.
	So with so many projects that are privacy related, it takes a while to wrap your mind around it, right?
	Hey, Alex, I do have one question.
	What do you think would happen if all of the sudden the FUD comes out that privacy coins are going to be banned?
	Should we all pick up our ball and go home?
	Yeah, we've been there.
	We've been there a few times, actually.
	I think it was late 2019, we started from Japan banning privacy coins in the country, and everybody came to us and said, oh, what's going to happen to you?
	And yeah, we're still here.
	Two things.
	First of all, I really think that if, and we do see a lot more adoption, right?
	It's slow, right?
	But we see adoption starting from Bitcoin and then moving to Ethereum and other projects.
	But we do see it happening in many different aspects.
	And I honestly don't think you can do it without privacy.
	Because this is actually an interesting thing that we It was really surprising for me, but I saw that people value privacy a lot more in non-financial domains.
	So a guy can go on Ethereum and buy a bunch of tokens and NFTs and trade whatever he wants without even seeking who is following his transactions.
	But then if you move to some non-financial domains and you ask him questions about his life and family and his profession, and then he says, oh, whoa, wait a second, I want privacy, right?
	So this is kind of the strange situation.
	So one of the things we're focusing on today in the upcoming Web3 world is on non-financial applications.
	That can benefit hugely from being decentralized, but then they're non-financial, so people think a lot more about privacy.
	Because I have to tell you, it was very difficult selling privacy to financial people in crypto.
	That is fascinating.
	Nobody cared.
	I'm really astonished to hear that, because I always thought that people would demand privacy in financial transactions more than anywhere else, but you're saying the opposite.
	It's really fascinating.
	I think a lot of people grew up with cash, and they didn't realize that cash is anonymous and fungible.
	They never really appreciated the properties of cash until there's this shift into a digital economy, and suddenly it's a surveillance grid, right?
	It's like a lot of people haven't thought about that.
	But I want to – Todd, I want to respond to something you said, use cases, right?
	Yes.
	We want to, on our platforms, Brighttown.com and Brighttown Social and so on, we've just implemented a tipping system, like I said, with Monero and Epic Cash.
	We'd like to implement Beam as another coin that people can tip with, but also, more importantly, in our stores.
	We're going to accept Monero first as a payment in our stores.
	Our devs are working on that right now.
	We would like to accept every privacy coin that makes sense as a payment mechanism for our various online stores.
	But what was shocking to me was that just by announcing a tipping system, It spurred an amazing wave of excitement across the Epic community and even, to some extent, the Monero community.
	And then I got invited on a big Monero show that I guess they're scheduling me to come on and be on that show just because we implemented it.
	And so, I mean, Todd, I want your reaction on this too, but it's like...
	People are super excited to find use cases even when they're not that amazing.
	It's like, yeah, you can send a tip to somebody.
	But everybody's excited about it.
	And Mike, I messaged you earlier, but it just hit me.
	It hit me.
	All of your vendors, you know how hard it's been to be able to get your fiat from your bank into the crypto ecosystem to be able to ultimately acquire private crypto, right?
	Right.
	So...
	That's not for everyone.
	Your tenacity has just been impressive.
	But you know what you could literally do?
	You could go to your entire network and tell everyone you know a way that they can dollar cost average into multiple privacy coins just by what?
	Accepting privacy coins as payment.
	What is the difference, right?
	You have all of the people who are paying for your goods and services with crypto that went through the hassle.
	Yeah, no, I'd like to pay my entire supply chain in privacy currency.
	And let me direct this back to Alex.
	One of the advantages of Beam, or frankly even Bitcoin as well, is that if I have to pay, let's say I'm buying $200,000 worth of organic beans, which is something we do here frequently, If I send that in crypto, then 30 minutes later, it's done.
	Like, the seller has no risk that I'm going to claw that back and, you know, reverse the transaction because it's in fiat, right?
	It's permanent.
	And so it's more trusted even though it's a trustless ecosystem.
	But, Alex, isn't this one of the key advantages of crypto in general is that it makes the economy move faster because you can count on the transactions actually counting, right?
	Yes, absolutely.
	And we saw several interesting examples.
	First of all, if you ever paid someone in crypto, and I mean, like, let's say Ethereum, right, where it's crazy fast, like it's 15 seconds per transaction, you have a lot of difficulty moving back.
	So once I paid someone who did some design work on one of the projects related to BIM, And, you know, we just click a button and they get their Ethereum, right?
	In another country across the world.
	So there is no, I don't know, SWIFT or whatever, like three other banks that in the process, it gets stuck.
	You know, PayPal, like 15 seconds, that's all it takes.
	So once we have this experience of immediacy, Obviously, it's very difficult to go back.
	The second thing is that smart contracts, they're not people.
	So, for example, we obviously recently saw a lot of different organizations going down and having to close a lot of positions.
	The first positions that they closed were those in smart contracts because they would have been liquidated.
	There is no one to talk to.
	They paid all their debts first to smart contracts.
	And then they went to negotiate with people on extensions and things like that.
	And, you know, because smart contract is, that's exactly why it's for, right?
	It's all coded, you know, you knew the rules when you went in, you're liquidated, you pay the price.
	Yeah, for sure.
	Well, the applications is where I think value is going to appear, Todd, across all of these projects.
	It's the applications.
	It's like this show and our philosophy.
	We're not about pumping coins, buy low, sell high.
	We have zero interest in that.
	We want to revolutionize the world of commerce.
	And allow people more use cases.
	You can buy things with this digital currency.
	You can give money to others through tips.
	You can revolutionize your supply chain.
	You can make things faster, more efficient.
	And you don't carry the risk of being cut off by the bank Because the bank doesn't agree with your political positions, for example, or your speech, or your nationality, or your ethnicity, or whatever it may be, because that's happening right now.
	I mean, just ask any Russian person at the moment, like in Europe, how hard is it to do banking or to keep your job or to even be a race car driver if you're Russian, because all the Russian people who aren't even in Russia are getting banned from tennis matches.
	It's like, are you kidding me?
	So...
	We need to live in a world where money works and money doesn't make a judgment about who you are.
	I mean, and privacy coins are the application.
	Todd, back to you.
	What are your thoughts?
	Well, I'm curious.
	Are you pretty prolific, your community, on Telegram?
	Alex?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Can you tell us what your Telegram channel would be?
	I would love to go join.
	Of course.
	It's BIM Privacy on Telegram.
	Okay, Beam Privacy.
	Yeah, I've seen that channel.
	By the way, we do need to wrap this part of the interview up here shortly, and then we're going to do a reaction to this.
	Todd and I will.
	But by the way, Alex, you're welcome to stay connected if you want to hear our post-discussion.
	Okay, please do.
	And then any final thoughts then before we let you go for today?
	And I know it's only been an hour.
	We've barely scratched the surface.
	You know, obviously there's a lot more to go into, but what would you want to leave our audience with right now?
	So, yeah, it's very difficult to talk about these topics in an hour.
	There is so much, you know, and we really just, you know, didn't even have started.
	But, you know, people time is valuable.
	So first of all, the fact that there is interest and, you know, what you are doing is explaining things and teaching and then kind of educating about the privacy and the importance and the availability of this technology, because in many cases, People don't necessarily know what they can get from crypto, so it's very important to talk about these topics.
	And I think it's also important because the way it's going, like the trends that we see right now and how this technology will be used in the future, they will all require privacy in some way, one way or another.
	And, you know, it will get there.
	If you just follow and you start using crypto more and more, think or look at the Web3 projects, I think privacy will just pop everywhere.
	So it's great that we're talking about this.
	Yeah, it's an amazing topic.
	And once again, I think it's almost impossible to live your life by just giving away all your privacy because you use crypto technologies.
	It's a non-starter.
	And Alex, I just want to also invite you to participate.
	When Mike and I went into this, we're like, we want to be all-inclusive with all privacy projects, because if you are dedicated to privacy, man, you're in our foxhole.
	And so I would also like to invite you to our two channels that we have on Telegram.
	One is Epic Private Money.
	And it's not about Epic Cash Private Money.
	It's about epic as an adjective.
	So you are welcome there to come and engage with the community.
	And we hope that folks from Monero come and any other project that we are engaging with.
	Because I fundamentally believe that in privacy, you are so correct, it's hard to market by yourself.
	But I think there is a 1 plus 1 plus 1 equals 111 type math that if we all band together and instead of looking at how we can build ourselves up by knocking you down or Monero down or whatever, We just approach this as a collective, and we go out and we work together.
	I mean, that's kind of the vision, right, Mike?
	We're here to embrace every viable project that honors privacy and that is serious about this.
	I mean, and being five years into this almost at this point, these folks are really serious.
	But yeah, there's that channel.
	I know we also have a channel called Decentralized TV. That is just getting started on Telegram as well.
	So, Alex, you're welcome to join those channels anytime.
	Not that you're not busy enough already with all the things that you're probably handling.
	But, Alex, I just want to say we've really enjoyed your answering our questions here, and your technical mastery of this subject is really quite impressive.
	And, you know, you're...
	I want to keep in touch with you.
	I want to find out more about your project, especially as you're launching the Ethereum virtual machine.
	I think that sounds like a game changer.
	And we'll talk to you again.
	Thank you for joining us today, Alex.
	Oh, thank you very much for having me.
	Thanks a lot.
	It's been amazing.
	Yeah, anytime.
	Thanks, Alex.
	Absolutely.
	Yeah, we've enjoyed it.
	All right.
	And, Alex, you're welcome to stand by.
	What we're going to do now is have kind of a reaction discussion, Todd and I. And you're welcome to stay connected, Alex.
	Just mute your audio so there's no background noises.
	Or I saw a guitar in your background there if you're going to start jamming out some tunes on the guitar.
	Join the official discussion channel for this show on telegram at t.me slash decentralized tv where you can ask questions or offer suggestions of who we should interview next.
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	Check it all out at Decentralize.tv.
	Beam Scoreboard.
	The pros are it's some of the best technology in the privacy coin space.
	It has mature, experienced project leaders with a strong grasp of private crypto.
	Uses the Mimblewimble blockchain technology for very high privacy.
	It also implements Lelantis for private offline transactions so that wallets don't always have to be online to talk to each other.
	It works with both online and offline wallets.
	It offers extremely fast wallet transactions, sometimes just a couple of seconds.
	Supports the creation of confidential assets such as new tokens on top of the current Beam infrastructure.
	Also supports confidential smart contracts and has an Ethereum bridge.
	Finally, it offers confidential in-wallet decentralized exchange functions that work very well.
	The downsides of Beam are that, number one, it's not yet well known.
	The Beam organization also lacks strong publicity and marketing activities that are needed to increase awareness.
	The coin has low liquidity until it's better known, making it more difficult to get in and out of the coin without moving the market price.
	Beam is also not listed on most exchanges, so you have to use decentralized crypto swap services in order to buy or sell Beam.
	Conclusions.
	Beam has some of the best technology and wallets in the privacy coin space.
	Beam is a hidden gem in the private crypto space.
	Most people have never heard about it, but are astonished at what Beam has accomplished when they learn about it.
	Beamcoins are currently about one four thousandth the price of Monero, but the core technology is competitive in terms of privacy and usability.
	Beamcoin prices have been strongly suppressed by being delisted from exchanges like Binance because of being a privacy coin.
	This also means solid potential for possible restoration of previous higher valuations if the Beam organization can achieve greater publicity, marketing, and adoption.
	Learn more about Beam at beam.mw, which stands for MimbleWimble.
	So Todd, tell me, I mean, fascinating discussion.
	You know, obviously Alex is very technically adept, obviously very passionate about this project, and I don't know if you've had a chance to use the wallet yet, but I've used it, and it's all working.
	And the sending is so fast with this SBBS system that they have, this private message.
	I mean, I think it's two seconds.
	I mean, I'm not even exaggerating.
	I... So you're sending it from one open wallet to another open wallet?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	And it was like seconds.
	Have you tested it to where you closed the other wallet?
	Yeah.
	And then you send it?
	Yeah.
	And then when you open the second wallet, boom, it's there.
	In a few seconds.
	It takes a few seconds and it's there.
	See, that's great.
	Yeah.
	That's great.
	I hope people are paying attention out there.
	I also...
	Yeah, definitely.
	I mean, that's something that Epic could benefit from some kind of mechanism like that.
	Yeah, 100%.
	Because that is the issue, right?
	Absolutely.
	And I don't know if they're open source or not, and I'm not here to suggest that we go down that path.
	But I think that hopefully the devs within Epic would consider this.
	But you know what?
	He had me at...
	Frankly, our marketing sucks.
	I'm serious.
	That, to me, is there's an authentic person, you know, and that goes a long way in my book, and I know it does in your book, too.
	And it just goes back to what we've talked about before.
	For example, with Epic, I mean, for two and a half years, every Wednesday and Friday, I'm doing a show to evangelize Epic and Because guess what?
	Nobody else was.
	And it sounds to me maybe there's not an Uncle V of Beam, but that's where I think what we're doing here is going to really benefit others because we, in essence, if we interview you and you become part of the tipping systems and payment systems, by default, we're going to be talking about you a lot.
	Well, I think I will just say right here on the show that we absolutely intend to integrate Beam into our tipping system and into our e-commerce systems.
	I think it's just a matter of our devs figuring out how to do that.
	It's all doable.
	It's new.
	I mean, this is one thing we've run into already with our devs is that they've never done that.
	You know, integration with shopping carts like this.
	But there's a lot of tools out there and it's all doable.
	And projects like Beam or others, I think they're all very happy to help us do this integration because they want to see the use cases as well.
	Of course.
	What I like about Beam is the whole ecosystem already exists.
	I've downloaded and tested the wallets.
	I've tested acquiring the coins.
	It all works.
	And I've tested sending.
	I've tested destroying wallets and then recreating them from seed phrases.
	And that works, too.
	It takes a little time.
	It takes actually a couple of hours to rebuild the wallet, to download the blockchain, rebuild.
	But it's all there.
	I've tried that a couple of times.
	That's worked just fine.
	You just have to wait for it, which is totally acceptable.
	Then the fact that you can do these Ethereum virtual machines he's talking about, I haven't tested that.
	I don't know exactly how that's going to work because I'm not an expert in Ethereum.
	Frankly, Ethereum is not my favorite project.
	I'm not into...
	You know, using the smart contracts, yet I'm into the use cases for payment systems, tipping systems, and stores of value and transferring value.
	Like Alex was saying, paying programmers.
	I mean, I might have a programmer in Ukraine right now, and I need to pay him something, but it's in the middle of a war zone, and the banks aren't working.
	Well, guess what?
	This is going to work.
	Right.
	You know, it's going to work more reliably than the banks.
	Right.
	And ultimately, whether it's Monero, Epic Cash, Beam, isn't it just kind of your hope and prayer that at some point in time, the entire world wakes up and we just go to this parallel system where everybody the entire world wakes up and we just go to this parallel system where everybody recognizes the And we're willing to exchange if it is private money and it is utilized and there are people who have
	finally, you know, drunk the Kool-Aid and they're like, yeah, I'll accept Epic Cash.
	Absolutely.
	I'm glad you brought that up, Todd, because I think five years ago, I was one of those people who did not recognize the intrinsic value of private digital money.
	You know, I was stacking gold and silver, which I will always do that, because gold and silver, they will survive everything, right?
	The fall of civilization, you'll still have gold.
	It's on the table of elements.
	But now, when I look at projects like Beam, or even Monero or Epic, it's like, wait a second.
	Privacy has value.
	Borderless transactions, that has value.
	There is intrinsic value in the properties of these projects.
	And privacy is at the top of my list.
	You know, the main reason I buy Bitcoin is to trade it for a privacy coin.
	It's a gateway drug.
	Bitcoin is the gateway drug.
	I don't hold Bitcoin.
	See, that's the difference between you and Hunter Biden.
	He'll just snort the Bitcoin.
	Don't compare me to Hunter Biden.
	That guy is such a clown.
	But there's a guy who needs privacy.
	He could use a lot more privacy, but he's way too public.
	Nevertheless, push that to the side.
	If anybody...
	No, I'm not even going to say it, because we're trying to keep this show nonpolitical.
	Yes.
	But we all need privacy and this shows the intrinsic value of these kinds of projects.
	And then the other thing that I've run into, and you've heard me talk about this, Todd, is the banks are becoming less and less reliable.
	I've had so many issues in the last six months where banks, they would delay depositing checks because, oh, they're too large.
	We got that big donation from that billionaire that was like a half a million dollar check.
	And the banks, it took them forever.
	They had to call four managers like, how do we know we can trust this?
	I'm like, are you kidding me?
	We banked here for years.
	We do millions of dollars all the time.
	And then the other thing was when we tried to give away the money, because that donor, for those watching, that donor gave us half a million dollars, and then we gave it away in smaller chunks to a bunch of other independent media outlets.
	And so then we had trouble giving the money away, and they flagged it as fraud when we tried to write those checks through a bill payment system.
	They flagged, oh, it might be fraud.
	Why are you writing half a million dollars of checks, right?
	And it led me to the conclusion...
	It's like, my God, we should have just done this in crypto.
	Right.
	And next time I submit, you will.
	No, you're not kidding, man.
	The next time we donate money to somebody, I'm going to call them up first and say, look, do you want $10,000 or $20,000, whatever?
	And if they say yes, it's like, set up a wallet.
	Set up a crypto wallet because I'm done with the banking.
	Boom, boom, boom.
	Use case.
	Another use case.
	Hot down use case.
	Yeah.
	Do you want $10,000 in equivalent value?
	Right.
	Yeah.
	Exactly.
	Set up a wallet.
	It'll take you 30 seconds.
	And I would rather those transactions be privacy coins rather than Bitcoin because I don't want to connect all those people in an interconnected web of wallet IDs.
	That would be a nightmare.
	Nothing good would come from that.
	No, exactly, because that's like the who's who of independent media.
	Yeah, and then you're going to have three-letter agencies that are going to be just going down all these rabbit holes, right?
	Yeah, trying to find out who we gave money to.
	Yeah, connect the dots.
	So no, private crypto, that's where it's at.
	Yeah, but here's the other thing.
	People need to recognize, too, that just because you want privacy doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong or illegal or unethical.
	Privacy is a basic human right.
	And just like we were talking about, we were giving away donations to a bunch of people who are doing really amazing work.
	And for some of them, I mean, one person called us and cried because they were out of money.
	I believe it.
	Just think about it.
	These people who've just been the tip of the spear at delivering truth to all of us, they've been deplatformed.
	They've been demonetized.
	Some of them have been debanked.
	Debanked, yes.
	And so here, that...
	I imagine the gratitude was just through the roof from the recipient.
	Oh, yeah.
	I know.
	I mean, some people are living off...
	Kudos to the billionaire.
	You're doing yeoman's work.
	Well, his name is Gary Haven, and he said I could share his name.
	Yeah, so he's the guy who actually made that donation.
	But I think Gary Haven would probably rather use privacy crypto as well for much the same reason.
	Again, it's not that you're doing anything unethical.
	In fact, you're doing something quite generous.
	Yeah.
	But even if you give money away, you have the right to privacy.
	I want to revisit, Mike, our discussions that we've had about being inclusive with all the privacy projects.
	Yeah, let's do that, because we just interviewed Alex with Beam.
	We're going to be interviewing Ruben from FIRO, and we did another interview of a different project that's not privacy-oriented.
	But yeah, go ahead, Todd.
	Let's talk about that.
	And Alex from Monero.
	Oh yeah, from local Monero.
	From local Monero.
	That was a fascinating interview.
	That was a very interesting interview.
	Yeah, so to me it's just like...
	And look, I'm not knocking the last two and a half years of my life, but within the Epic community, it really, really was kind of beat into our head that...
	Everything else sucks, except Epic Cash.
	And you know what?
	For good reason.
	There's a lot of great reasons the attributes of Epic Cash are amazing.
	So I think we can defend a lot of it, but guess what?
	You know, it's the wrong way to approach it, because...
	Privacy is a right.
	And anybody dedicated to it, I think, should be lifted up together.
	And that's why I like what we're doing here.
	And I can't wait to see the different privacy projects that come out of the woodwork that we haven't even thought about yet, Mike.
	We know they're coming.
	And you know, because you know some people, some leaders of various projects across the space.
	And, you know, we interview Alex today, and he's very mature.
	He's very, you know, contemplative, right?
	He's intelligent.
	You can tell he's got a lot of experience.
	He's not some young guy that's out there screaming, it's going to go to the moon like everybody all in, you know, Lambos and all this nonsense.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Because we don't want that.
	We want mature people who are serious about this.
	And Alex is a serious guy.
	You can tell.
	He is.
	Yeah.
	And that's the kind of thing that we want to see in this space.
	And like you said, too, I love it when people in this space, when they work together, when they share developments and knowledge or white papers.
	For example, But Monero and Firo, those developers actually, they collaborate on a lot of things, including Lelantis and their new protocol, Lelantis Spark.
	And by the way, Beam uses Lelantis implementation, I think, for its offline transactions.
	Well, we didn't have time to ask Alex about that.
	But there's a lot of collaboration involved.
	And I agree with you, Todd, that everybody wins, and you and I don't ever want to be here saying that everything sucks except the thing that we have.
	No.
	And Mike, I'm excited.
	I know that you have modified your assessment sheet I don't know what you call it, but when you're taking a look at assets, and it's not just private crypto assets, you can, with your system, analyze Bitcoin, gold, silver, fiat, right?
	But you're going to do it on this sliding scale.
	Can you explain a little bit, give a little bit, show a little leg on it?
	Yeah, thank you.
	Yeah, I'm working on a new scoring system.
	It's just my own assessment, which I guess it'll be associated with the show.
	But we're going to move to a system where there's a plus or minus of every attribute, and I'm going to try to give a score rating to every coin project.
	And it can be plus 10 on the high side or minus 10 on the negative side.
	So, for example, privacy will be one of the properties.
	And then we would rate every coin on whether it's private or not private.
	So Bitcoin, on that point, would get a negative score because it's the opposite of private, whereas Beam would get a positive score because it's very private.
	But not necessarily Bitcoin a minus 10.
	No, not necessarily a minus 10.
	It might be a minus 7 or something because there is a little bit of anonymity to it.
	But then there'd be another property called liquidity.
	So Bitcoin would be plus 10.
	Because Bitcoin is the most liquid.
	And then Beam is not nearly as liquid as even Monero, right?
	So Monero might be 7 out of 10.
	Beam might be 3 out of 10 on liquidity, right?
	Or maybe negative.
	I mean, because...
	I don't think you could have negative liquidity.
	It's just...
	That would be illiquid or like if it shut down.
	Yeah, that's true.
	That's a valid point.
	But then there's another property we're going to rate, which is leadership.
	And leadership, I think, is really important.
	And that's something I left off my first chart.
	Leadership, I think it has to do with the maturity, the stability, how much are the leaders of the project on board with the success of the project, but also, again, their maturity in the community at large.
	So I'm not a fan of leaders that are running around just screaming that everything else sucks except their project, right?
	Mm-hmm.
	I am a fan of leaders who have a very contemplative point of view that they can talk about the advantages or disadvantages of their tech versus other projects or that collaborate with other projects.
	So I think there's a leadership score and there's also maybe a collaboration score.
	How much is this project on board with the community at large?
	Because we all sink or swim together in this space of private digital money, I believe.
	What do you think, Todd?
	Yeah, I think so, too.
	And there's another one that just popped into my mind, and it was because of our interview we just had with Alex.
	And maybe you can help me with the right word, but There is...
	It's not a pain point, but it's a real...
	Man, it's like...
	It has to do with dev resource, right?
	These projects require dev resource.
	And if you only have one guy...
	That knows everything, right?
	You have to think, what would happen to the entire project if that one guy got hit by a bus?
	You know?
	I mean...
	So you're talking about redundancy of the core team talent.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Just not really depending upon one person who could literally almost hold your project hostage, Mike.
	Oh, and you also mean potentially even non-devs, but just a leader of a project, if it's dependent on that one person you're saying, then it's maybe too centralized internally?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Basically, I mean, I think we all talk a lot about being decentralized with private crypto, et cetera.
	But are we really at a leadership level, necessarily?
	Right.
	Yeah, that's a really good point.
	And I look at projects like Monero, because of the scope of Monero, they have a very large base of devs and maybe leaders.
	I mean, I guess they're so secret that we haven't been able to find out who they are, which is fine.
	But they have a community, you know, supporters, devs, kind of PR people, people who have channels on YouTube and so on.
	Like, you can rest assured Monero's not going to go down if one person dies.
	Exactly.
	Right.
	Exactly.
	I mean, we don't hope that happens, obviously.
	I don't want to be too brash here.
	We hope everybody does well and is healthy.
	But it's a good point.
	Yeah.
	And also, I think that...
	Again, with my experience with Epic Cash, it is really, really hard to be able to develop your roadmap Without funding.
	And so when you're a community and you want to stay away from being declared a security in the future, you know, you have to be really, really careful.
	And there is no corporation.
	You know, there's a treasury from a mining reward, you know, but then how's the treasury control, right?
	It's like, what...
	I don't know.
	It's just like if it is centralized, if there's centralized decision making, or let me rephrase it.
	I'm looking for decentralized solutions.
	Within the structure.
	Within the structure.
	That's a really interesting point.
	But let me add something, by the way, on the whole thing about securities.
	I think that there's going to be a case before the Supreme Court, the U.S. Supreme Court, Where I think the SEC is going to get slapped back hard.
	And the reason I believe this is because the Supreme Court has already rendered major decisions against the EPA under its major doctrines decision-making and also probably coming soon major decisions against the ATF for overreaching of its regulatory authority.
	This has already been handed down against the EPA. It's going to affect the ATF. It's going to affect, frankly, every federal agency, including the SEC. I think we're not that far from a Supreme Court decision that will say to the SEC, hey, you're not allowed to just declare everything under the sun to be a security.
	And then they're going to have to go back to the drawing board.
	The SEC will.
	So I don't think the SEC has absolute power.
	I don't think Gary Gensler is a permanent threat to crypto.
	And also, by the way, they can't ban it.
	They can try.
	They can declare they ban it.
	But that would be like declaring that the sun won't come up in the morning.
	I mean, it's going to come up no matter what.
	Yeah, but they can make it very uncomfortable.
	The sun can still come up and they can spray all kinds of contaminants in the air.
	They can try to obscure it, right.
	Fog it up a little bit with these operation choke points and just putting their heavy pressure thumb on the exchanges.
	As you have experienced, it's just kind of hard to elegantly, easily be able to get into crypto from fiat.
	You know, I... I actually think there's a First Amendment case in all of this.
	You know, computer code is speech.
	And speech is protected in the United States.
	Very good.
	Yes, you are 100% correct.
	Code is speech.
	And so an expression of code is an expression of speech.
	And we just had a circuit district court in the United States slap the Biden administration saying that you're not allowed.
	There's an injunction.
	You're not allowed to order tech platforms to censor the speech of individuals.
	Which is driving the White House completely insane, by the way.
	But again, we don't try to make this show about politics, but this is what's happening.
	So if computer code is protected speech, which it is, by the way, then the execution of computer code, which is what a smart contract is, that's what a blockchain wallet is executing code, that is protected speech.
	And the government cannot get away with censoring your app interacting with a blockchain for some representation of coins or tokens or transaction outputs.
	I believe the Supreme Court is going to smack this down hard.
	Now, it may take time, but I think they're going to fail.
	I should say I think the SEC is going to fail.
	Boy, from your lips to God's ears, please.
	Yeah, because we deserve freedom, everyone.
	We deserve freedom.
	But, you know, Mike, I've been thinking about these satellite phones.
	I've been thinking a lot about these satellite phones.
	Oh, you're reminding me to plug our sponsor?
	Yes.
	Okay, yeah.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Yeah, the episodes here are sponsored by the Satellite Phone Store.
	We'd like to thank them for their support.
	You can go to sat123.com or beready123.com.
	And there you're going to find...
	Actually, let me see if I have the website.
	Actually, let me bring it up.
	Hold on a second.
	BeReady123.com.
	All right.
	Here it is.
	And if you want redundancy in your communications, you can get a satellite phone or you can get these solar generators here.
	Here's some of the sat phones down here.
	And they work all over the world, no matter where you are, even on the ocean, right?
	And they also have these bivvy sticks.
	I don't see a picture here.
	But it's two-way satellite text messaging devices.
	I don't travel without these.
	I have them in my car.
	Everybody I know has a satellite phone or a bivvy stick, including my ex-military friends who use them on operations.
	Can I ask you a question?
	Yeah, go ahead.
	Because, full disclosure, I don't have them yet, but I'm going to.
	You know me.
	How do you not have a sat phone?
	We've got to get you one.
	I don't do anything, or I don't promote anything that I haven't either done or acquired.
	So, as a family, okay?
	As a family, let's just war game this.
	I have four daughters, okay?
	My wife and me, okay?
	What should I buy that would give me...
	And my family Optum coverage with the different devices in case the zombies come.
	Okay, let's keep...
	Yeah.
	First of all, I'm pretty sure we can get you a satellite phone since you're the co-host of the show, so don't worry about that.
	Now, for the rest of your family members, the easiest thing is for them to get a bivy stick so they can use their mobile phone and they can compose and they can read messages that they send and receive on the bivy sticks, which can send and receive to any other mobile phone anywhere on the planet.
	That's cool.
	Yeah, so if there's an emergency, if the grid goes down and your daughters need to tell you that they're okay, they can use the bivy stick to do that.
	Look, I live in Florida.
	We get hurricanes.
	I mean, literally, the grid does go down often.
	So...
	I know.
	So I'm delighted to hear that, that you can do this without power.
	Well, and also here's the other thing that actually ties it to the topic of the show here today.
	So the satellite phone store sells satellite bandwidth devices.
	Now, they're pretty pricey, of course, but I've used them on road trips.
	So you can even, of course, use it for digital money.
	So I can have my laptop running like the Beam wallet, let's say, and I want to do a Beam transaction.
	I just pop open the satellite bandwidth system.
	I just kind of angle it at the sky, and it creates a hotspot, a Wi-Fi hotspot.
	That's awesome.
	Yeah, it's just like a hotspot.
	And then my laptop connects to it, like Wi-Fi, and then boom, the Beam wallet synchronizes the blockchain.
	I can send, receive, whatever.
	And then I'm done, like James Bond.
	Got the transaction, close it up, get on my James Bond motorcycle and go down the road, or helicopter, or whatever.
	You know James Bond has a tattoo that says under 007, it says decentralized.tv.
	Did you know that?
	Is that right?
	Oh my gosh, that's so funny.
	Oh wow, I've had this thing on wrong the whole time.
	Okay, there it is.
	I'm going to have to reconfigure my ear for the next show.
	But anyway, look...
	We need to wrap this up.
	Yeah, this has been great.
	So bottom line, Todd, what's your take on just what you learned about Beam today?
	What do you think?
	I'm thumbs up on Beam.
	And I'm just really curious.
	I hope they come into the epic private money community on Telegram.
	I'm going to go into their community and engage.
	And I just think that there is that...
	I say it all the time, 1 plus 1 equals 11 equation.
	I look forward to getting to know them more because it does look like their tech is as advanced as is out there with Mimble Wimble.
	That's my conclusion.
	I think that Beam has done more with Mimble Wimble than anybody at this point.
	Which is really saying something.
	And I think they've elegantly solved that wallet-to-wallet handshake thing.
	And that's really impressive.
	And then to have smart contracts on top of it, which I don't yet even fully understand.
	Like I said, I haven't used that feature, but that's mind-boggling.
	I think it's a game-changer.
	I think it can be a game-changer.
	Yeah, I'm going to have to start thinking about other ways to use this tech.
	What can we do with it beyond just receiving it as a form of payment?
	See, and that's where I give you about three days or three weeks, maybe even three hours, to where you'll figure something out, man.
	Once I get excited about tech, I always start thinking about different ways to use it.
	I know you do.
	You're awesome.
	But this one, and then an Ethereum virtual machine, kind of an Ethereum simulator running on top of this.
	I'm going to have to dig into that.
	I'll probably have to bug Alex with some questions for a while.
	I'm trying to find out more.
	Mike, can I ask you a question?
	Yeah.
	What is the best way for people to reach out to us?
	Because I would love to hear from the audience.
	What do you think about the show?
	Oh, yeah.
	Do you have any suggestions?
	What don't you like about the show?
	First of all, go to the website, decentralized.tv.
	And on that website, you'll find not only our code of ethics, You know, full transparency and what our code of ethics are, but then also the contacts for our social media accounts, including the Telegram accounts.
	You said Epic Private Money and also Decentralized TV, plus the channels on Rumble and Twitter and YouTube and Brighton Social and everything else, and Brighton, of course.
	So at least until we get banned by YouTube or whatever happens.
	I don't even know.
	I would even check to see if they've banned us there.
	I don't even care.
	It's just like, so what?
	We're doing our own thing.
	We have our own platforms.
	We're reaching millions of people on our own.
	Is there a way within Decentralized TV, when you post one of our shows, to also have a link to Rumble?
	So it's right there?
	Oh, that's a great idea.
	I would love to have the link to Rumble where I could just easily copy it and then put it on my Facebook.
	I'll request that.
	Yeah, let me talk to my devs and we'll have that put on there.
	And we're going to start publishing two shows a week.
	One show every Monday and then another show on Wednesdays.
	And based upon the feedback we've been getting and the inquiries, can we come on your show?
	We might end up at three shows a week before this is all said and done.
	Yeah, that's probably the case.
	It was kind of funny, like before we launched this show and I was pre-inviting people to come on.
	Not everybody was on board at that time.
	They were like, well, let's think about it.
	Now that our show's running and the episodes are out there, we can't stop people from contacting us that want to be on the show.
	It's so great.
	Yeah, it's a good thing.
	Todd, you and I have to just exercise discernment.
	We want to have people on who have serious, legitimate projects that have real applications.
	We don't want to accidentally end up having a shitcoin project on the show.
	That's right.
	I mean, we don't want to get scammed by somebody that's just pushing a pump and dump or a rug pull or some kind of vaporware.
	So, you know, we got to have discernment.
	But I think we've been around long enough.
	We can do that.
	Yeah.
	Well, you know, I'm the shitcoin judge, so that used to be my specialty.
	That's true.
	Yeah.
	You have rejected all kinds of coins out there, which is necessary because, you know, for every 100 coins out there, there's probably 99 that aren't going to ever succeed.
	Well, there are 23,000 assets out there, and if you're not in the top 500, it's hard to get in the top 500.
	Yeah, but see, I don't believe in just the volume.
	I'm not a fan of Dogecoin and meme coins.
	I just think that's a joke.
	I mean, I'm about tech.
	Exactly.
	That's why I'm impressed by Beam right now.
	Beam is not going to be in the top 500 coins in terms of volume, but in terms of tech, man, it's really high.
	And it's layer one.
	Exactly.
	It's not a token on top of somebody else.
	Yes, which is really important.
	And think about it like Firo, for example.
	We're going to interview Firo.
	Yes.
	Firo...
	And I haven't yet done the interview with Ruben, but I will shortly.
	Firo is really ahead of the game on tech, and yet their coin is sitting there under $2 right now versus Monero, which is $160-something.
	And even I've had a hard time understanding the disparity.
	How is the price so different when the tech can be so similar?
	It's mind-boggling, Mike.
	It's just mind-boggling how the markets work, right?
	It is.
	And ultimately, it is about awareness.
	I know.
	I know.
	It's wild.
	And Monero was smart, man.
	It was good for one thing.
	Dark market, you know?
	What?
	What are you saying?
	That's how they transact.
	Oh, on the dark web.
	Oh, okay.
	Well, I mean, but I hear a lot of people are using Bitcoin.
	Well, there are a lot of stupid people that are using Bitcoin.
	Well, we're not about the dark web.
	We're about legitimate uses and applications of these coins, and we believe privacy is a basic human right, even for those people who aren't doing anything unethical or illegal.
	And that's why this show exists.
	Yeah.
	To be able to discern and hopefully direct towards use cases.
	And let me say one other thing, too.
	And then we seriously got to go because we have another show, another guest coming up.
	Yeah.
	A lot of these, you know, the people that are in our age group, you and I, Todd, we're roughly in the same decade here.
	So it's our generation that actually has the money in this country.
	Yes.
	Because, you know, because we've worked 30 plus years, right?
	Exactly.
	Right.
	And yet, so much of the crypto industry Including the exchanges, they try to cater to 20-year-olds who are broke all the time.
	They have no money.
	They can't pay rent.
	And it's like, why do all these exchanges like Gemini or these meme coins, why do they try to cater to an age group that has no money when if you just had more maturity and were more serious about applications, you could bring in this whole generation of people who are 50-plus, let's say, Yes.
	Who have the wealth of the nation.
	And grew up with cash.
	Yeah, exactly.
	I mean, why market to 20-year-olds when they don't have any money?
	It's so bizarre to me.
	You know, like I'm taking my money out of the fiat currency banking system and I'm moving it.
	I've said this publicly.
	I'm moving it into three things, gold and silver and crypto.
	And that's it.
	I've already made that decision.
	It's already underway.
	And yet I've found so many obstacles in the exchanges.
	And one of them being that, you know, I'm older than their typical customer.
	So it freaks them out when they see my selfie.
	They're like, oh, here's somebody who's older.
	Could it be true?
	Could they really be in the crypto?
	Isn't that amazing?
	It's crazy.
	Isn't that amazing?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Again, people my age and older, we're the ones who have the money in the country.
	By the way, I have a fourth bucket now.
	Yeah?
	I don't know if people have already seen the Jim Gill interview, or if this is going to be after it or before, but...
	This is going to be after.
	The Jim Gill interview will run before...
	Okay, then people have seen the Jim Dale interview.
	Yes.
	And today, I paid for my design for my food forest in my backyard, and I'm going to document the entire journey over the next literally two years.
	You paid in crypto, too.
	I paid in Epic Cash.
	Oh, there you go.
	See?
	Another use case.
	Another use case.
	Yes.
	Perfect.
	So, the fourth bucket, and people should really think about this, and consider Jim Gale and the amazing service he offers.
	Oh, yeah.
	Food force.
	I am investing in food.
	Yes.
	My future food that's just going to grow without me gardening it, the way that they install these.
	I am so excited.
	I'm excited for you.
	I'm actually a little bit jealous.
	I want to see pictures of your food for us because you're in Florida, so you actually have a much better environment to grow all kinds of things.
	I'm in central Texas.
	We get more freezing weather here, so we can't have the orange trees.
	Or even the avocado trees and so on.
	But I want to see your project, but we've got to wrap this up today, Todd.
	I could talk for another hour about all this, but this has been fascinating.
	I'm thumbs up on BEAM also.
	I'm going to have to start thinking about what we can do with BEAM, frankly.
	That's my homework assignment.
	I'm looking at it and I'm like, huh, what else can we do with this tool set?
	This could be interesting.
	I love you, brother.
	My devs would probably complain to me, like, you're giving us another project?
	What are you doing?
	Throw Mike in the bonus hole!
	They're like, you're going to have to hire another five devs.
	No, don't throw me in the bonus hole.
	I'm going to have to pay out bonuses to the devs, though, to get them to work overtime on whatever we come up with next.
	That's true.
	Okay, well...
	This has been a fun show, Todd, and really had a great time with our guests.
	And the website, folks, is beam.mw, which stands for Mimble Wimble.
	That's kind of a cool site.
	That's very cool.
	Yeah, good domain name there.
	Beam.mw, it's really cool stuff.
	I want to say, again, before we go...
	We have...
	Okay, I haven't even told you this, Todd.
	We have coming up, we have an interview with a developer, the founder of another project that is about distributed content.
	And I'll just tell you, that project is Cordal, Q-O-R-T-A-L, and we have actually funded development of something with Cordal that is...
	Groundbreaking for distributed video technology.
	Peer-to-peer, node-based video delivery requiring no domain names, no browser, no...
	I mean, this...
	And we're going to have Jason Crow on the show to announce this and demonstrate it.
	And we funded it.
	And his team built it, and I just saw the demo last night, and it's done.
	Congrats.
	It's amazing.
	It's amazing.
	Yeah, talk about another use case.
	There are people who ankle bite from the sidelines and say, you should do this, you should do that.
	Then there's you who says, get the spectators off the field.
	Let's just get it done, man.
	Get it done.
	Yeah, that's what we do.
	We get it done.
	And I saw it last night.
	It's done.
	It's amazing.
	So this show will be syndicated on Quartal, With an uncensorable video distribution peer-to-peer system that is rocking.
	That should strike the fear of God into the Druid Babylonian.
	Oh man, I'm telling you.
	Take their living.
	Decentralized video content that nobody can pull down or take away.
	Yeah.
	And, oh, and I have, I can't say who yet, a major filmmaker who...
	His films have been bombshell.
	And he's going to be here in studio next week, by the way.
	And he wants his latest film to be released through this system to make his film uncensorable.
	So, yeah, that's coming.
	A lot of good stuff.
	Says the most censored man in history.
	Yeah, that's right.
	I am one of the most censored people in the world.
	And all that did was piss me off and made me build all these systems against censorship.
	So there you go.
	Sometimes God works in strange ways.
	God's like, we're going to have you censored.
	Otherwise, you wouldn't be motivated to build all these things.
	Oh, and by the way, thank you for your creative team for creating the new logo that's just TV and TV. That's going to be awesome.
	At some point in time, there's going to be some entrepreneurial people who are going to get that We'll show that new logo here in a future show.
	But yeah, we'd love somebody to start making t-shirts with that.
	As long as you accept crypto, we'll plug your t-shirt business.
	Yes, yes.
	By the way, we're not looking to do it ourselves.
	No, no.
	I don't want to make T-shirts.
	That's what we're all about, is being able to just provide some things for other entrepreneurs to be able to use.
	It's decentralized entrepreneurship.
	That's right.
	We should talk about that, but we've got to wrap up this show, okay?
	So we've got to go to our next show.
	Perfect.
	I can't delay him anymore.
	This has been fun.
	Thank you, Todd, for your time.
	Stand by for the next show.
	We're going to record the next one.
	And for those of you watching, I hope you enjoyed this discussion.
	I hope you found value in it.
	Of course, I'm Mike Adams, the founder of brighteon.com, and here we are on decentralized.tv.
	So check out the website.
	Join the email list, I forgot to say.
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	And thank you for watching today.

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