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July 20, 2023 - Health Ranger - Mike Adams

01:47:06

Episode 5 - July 19, 2023 - Decentralize electricity and the power grid with Ryan Arriaga...

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	welcome
	to today's episode of decentralized tv i'm mike adams the founder of brighton and the founder of this show, which is about decentralized living.
	My co-host, Todd Pitner, will be joining us after our featured interview here.
	And our interview is with just an extraordinary individual with an amazing project that I'm just learning about as well.
	So I'll have questions along with you.
	It's called Dione Protocol, and his name is Ryan Arriaga.
	And apparently I just learned that he's been a follower of some of my work for many years, and I'm about to learn about now his work and how he sees his project changing the world for the better.
	So welcome to the show, Ryan.
	It's great to have you on.
	Thank you so much.
	It's an honor to be here.
	You know, and like I said earlier, I've been following you for about two years.
	I don't think you realize, Mike, the type of impact that you have for a lot of people that are watching you and are taking this information and going out in the real world and trying to make an impact.
	So it's an honor to be here, like I said.
	said and I love what you're doing with decentralization because before I know you were kind of against it.
	You didn't probably understand it as much and it's so great to see you starting to get into it, starting to understand it more and seeing how there is power and there is a revolution in this space if you actually use it for good.
	So, Absolutely.
	Thank you for reaching out to us, by the way.
	I'm very excited to learn about your project.
	I know our audience is as well.
	Thank you for mentioning that you've been a follower of my work.
	I just want to say, look, we're all in this together.
	I learned from you today.
	I learned from other people.
	People learned from me.
	This has to be really a network effect of knowledge.
	right?
	We are individual nodes of knowledge, but none of us has the answers all by ourselves.
	So that's what the show is about is actually let's practice decentralization with node-based human knowledge where we share and learn from each other.
	And you're right.
	I was very skeptical about a lot of the, I would call it the former hype of crypto for many years.
	And yet I think after FTX, I think there's been a major transition, I see a lot of maturity now in the crypto space where, like your project, which we'll talk about here, is focused on really real-world applications, you know, and not just like buy low, sell high, which was kind of a boring narrative anyway.
	But I'm all about applying this technology.
	So with that said, let me give you the floor for a little bit here.
	Tell us about your project and what problems it's solving.
	Where is it in terms of development?
	And how do you see this Dione protocol, if I'm pronouncing that correctly, how do you see it changing the world?
	Oh, and folks, by the way, Ryan, let me ask you, did you pay anything to be on this show?
	No, absolutely not.
	I reached out to you, and like I said, I've been following you religiously.
	Very rarely do I even miss a daily show.
	Oh, really?
	Very rarely.
	I'm sorry to hear that.
	Once you started to get into decentralization, that was the only thing that I was like – before you were kind of standoffish with Bitcoin and standoffish with the decentralization, which I understand because – which we'll get into, which I completely understand how someone who's new to the space, they can be turned off by it.
	That was the only thing.
	And then when you started getting into it, you started decentralizing it because – You know, you're the type of person, you're the type of influence that really makes the impact on this world, and people are starting to wake up and starting to realize, well, what other options do we have to make an impact?
	Yeah, there's all this stuff going on with politics and with where the world's going, but what can we do?
	And I think it's awesome.
	I would add to that, Ryan, and by the way, your video feed's glitching just a little bit.
	It's okay.
	I just want the audience to know that it's the incoming feed, but we can follow everything you're saying.
	The world of centralized systems is crumbling faster than I ever imagined.
	I mean, I'm seeing it every day.
	I'm seeing failures in food systems, failures in medicine, failures in the monetary system, banks not working, banks failing and collapsing, supply chains falling apart.
	You know, try to repair a car these days, right?
	Sometimes you have to wait six months for parts.
	I am seeing it, Ryan.
	This has actually lit a fire under my own seat, we'll say, to jump on this issue of decentralization because the world, in order for human civilization to be sustainable and to actually succeed and not starve to death and not die from, you know, whatever, poverty, you know, total impoverishment, economic collapse, we are going to have to find new solutions.
	And the good news is it's people like you, Ryan, that are building these solutions.
	That's why, you know, the slogan of this show is building the infrastructure for human freedom.
	And that's, I believe in that.
	So that's why I'm here.
	And let me turn it back to you.
	I'm sorry to talk so much, but...
	No, you're fine.
	You get me kind of pumped up about this.
	No, that is exactly right.
	And we have two worlds now clashing together, right?
	We have the way that things always were, which was centralization.
	Which, in every centralized model, you have, you know, it rolls up to the top to a select few.
	And people are realizing, well, those select few can be corrupted.
	Those select few can make choices and decisions for the greater whole that are not necessarily always good for the greater whole.
	So now this whole another world of decentralization is coming in.
	And to kind of piggyback off of what we were talking about earlier about you coming into this space, just like we have great technology or great systems that come into play, True.
	True.
	Make it and make it so that it turns away people.
	And we've seen this time and time again.
	You talk about this on your show all the time.
	So in Web3, for example, there are a lot of – and I believe there are a lot of paid actors, paid people that come in to make the space look like a gambling casino, like there's no innovation that's happening.
	Like there's nothing true or nothing good that can come out of it for the people, and that turns off a lot of people.
	So then the mainstream media can go and they can cherry pick and they can take little things and say, oh, look, this one got really big, FTX for example.
	Oh, this one got really big.
	It did a lot of bad things for the people that were involved.
	See, this is why it doesn't work.
	And they cherry pick and they take these little examples and they try to paint that with a broad brush about the whole industry.
	But the whole point of this and the whole point of what I've always been – what's given me the affinity and attracted me to this industry was the fact that you can create a system or a protocol that's really governed by the people.
	And we're starting to see now – We're centralized systems are being threatened.
	They're being taken advantage of.
	And the people themselves, when we look at the farmers right now in the Netherlands, we saw what happened with the truckers in Canada.
	And we started to see, and even Venezuela, what we've seen, what's kept those people alive and what's kept those people going and fighting against this tyrannical regime or whatever it might be, it's decentralization.
	And it's people coming in Of all walks of life, saying, you know what?
	There's a different way we can look at things.
	I can make an impact just by running a node and keeping the network on so that we can all communicate, so we can all transact with one another.
	And I think that's the biggest thing that has really pulled me to this.
	But obviously, it takes a bit for people to understand how it works because we have mainstream media, we have a lot of these articles, and And news stories talking about how bad, you know, decentralization is because they're cherry picking the bad parts of it.
	And just like anything, just like when the internet started, I always tell people, the internet started, it wasn't perfect, but it's one of the best inventions that we've ever had because it's open.
	It's open source.
	It's open.
	It's open free for all.
	And that's kind of how decentralization has started.
	Anyone can make it.
	Anyone can create something of value.
	Can you imagine if the media told us right now that you shouldn't use the internet because criminals use the internet?
	That would be crazy, right?
	We hear that about privacy coins or DeFi projects.
	Oh, bad people might be using that.
	Well, the world's worst criminals and kidnappers, they use dollars for the most part.
	Suitcases of cash.
	Right.
	Correct.
	Gold.
	They use weapons.
	Anything that can be bartered or transacted or has a value, you can use.
	And so I think that the biggest thing about decentralization and what really scares people that first of all that don't understand it is, well, I have to do my research.
	I have to try to figure out.
	I have to try to understand.
	And yes, that takes time.
	It takes a certain level of getting your hands dirty and learning how it works.
	But once you do that, you start to realize this is one of the greatest inventions or technological breakthroughs we've had in a long time.
	I agree.
	I agree.
	And if we can harness this for the good, for the good of humanity, in which we already are, and we can talk about a little bit of the project I'm working on and how we're doing that, but it's – The type of solutions that we can build and we can come up with are...
	It's just...
	It's unfathomable.
	You know, the more...
	I'm sorry to interrupt, but...
	And I do want to remind...
	We've got to get to your project so that we have time to cover it because I'm fascinated to hear more to learn about it because it involves renewable energy and crypto tech.
	So let's remember to get back to that here shortly.
	But the more I learn about this tech...
	And how it's being used and the incredible algorithmic approaches, the math, it's beyond fascinating, like zero-knowledge proofs, for example.
	I mean, just blockchain concepts are pretty simple, you know, having hashes to confirm integrity of blocks and tying them to each other.
	Okay, I get that.
	That's simple, relatively simple.
	But the ecosystem of how it's all put together through miners and nodes, consensus, integrity, verification, it is really genius.
	This is a game changer for human civilization.
	I now see that.
	And I didn't see that at first for quite some time.
	I see it now.
	And we can never go back to a pre-Bitcoin world, really, at this point.
	And when I say Bitcoin, I mean in a greater sense, not just that one chain.
	But Bitcoin is changing the future of the world.
	From the first day that white paper came out, humanity's future changed.
	Agreed.
	And I think that just like everything new, there's a learning curve.
	And it's easy when you have that learning curve, like that trajectory, where something's starting to build.
	If people don't understand it, it's easier to attack.
	You only have a certain amount of those first adopters that can really dig into the white paper, dig into the technology, try it out, kick it around for a little bit, that can actually start doing something with it.
	And then they apply those to use cases.
	Oh wow, I understand how this works.
	Now I can start, if I want to, I can track a supply chain transaction.
	I can track energy units.
	I can make transactions and pay my development team that's overseas and be able to pay them whenever maybe their government or they don't have access to specific banking institutions or any type of services that allow them to get paid.
	You can do that at a click of a button.
	And that is what's bringing everyone together, and I think that the hardest part is the industry does have a little bit more maturity to go.
	But for where we are right now, I truly believe it has everything it really needs to be to have that foundation to really start to snowball.
	I agree.
	And I think this is the infancy, frankly, of the industry.
	And a lot of key pillars of tech are just now being sorted out.
	And there's still a lot of experiments running.
	Some experiments will fail.
	Some will succeed wildly.
	But I think that we are at just the cutting edge of what is about to be an explosion of real-use applications of this tech.
	But let me...
	Again, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I want to hear about your project.
	I know our audience does too.
	So can you give us an overview of what it is?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	So when we started, essentially, Dione Protocol, what we're doing is we're democratizing energy.
	So we're starting to, in the back end, starting to make partnerships with bigger energy companies, solar farms, microgrids, where we can bring in energy units, track them, And then we have something called Nebra Marketplace, which would trade those energy units, and you'd have grid operators, resellers, and consumers.
	So all of those energy units are coming in through ports on the fly, and then you'd be able to trade those energy units back and forth.
	Now, we'd have to start with microgrids, obviously, because the bigger players, it's just like any other startup.
	You have to be able to kick around the technology for a bit before you can go into the bigger ones.
	But we have to be with the proof of concept.
	The other part of this is we want to be the first blockchain.
	And we talk about first blockchain renewable energy.
	And what we mean by that is think of anything that can provide power to a node.
	And for anyone out there that understands kind of what a node is, people say, well, what's a node?
	Essentially, a blockchain is run by nodes.
	And the more nodes you have, the more decentralized you are.
	And so all a node is, is it's just a tiny processing...
	Basically, a computer with some RAM processing power.
	And all it does is it confirms transactions.
	So if you send a transaction, say you send a certain amount of money to someone overseas, depending on the chain, they'll have to be verified.
	Whenever it's verified, it'll go through what's called validations.
	And so anyone who has a node, their node might validate it and say, yep, it's not counterfeit.
	This is an authentic transaction.
	Another node might say it in Chile, another node in the UK, another node in Italy, in the US. And they all come together and they say, yep, this is a valid transaction.
	And it makes it so that it's an immutable and valid transaction that goes through when you're sending digital assets.
	So that's all a node does.
	Our approach was, well, what if the grid goes down?
	What we're seeing right now, Congress has given satellite phones all of a sudden.
	We have threats on our ability to keep up power in certain areas.
	Well, the media is warning that we're going to suffer power grid failures across America coming.
	I mean we're seeing mainstream news stories about that because the resilience of the grid is really in question.
	Exactly.
	Go ahead.
	I'm sorry.
	No, no, you're 100% right.
	And if you have these jurisdictions or you have these specific areas, for example, we've seen what happens with Parler, where AWS just took down Parler, and it was like, okay, they're off now.
	So a lot of people run nodes on AWS. Well, what happens if AWS says, hey, you know what, we're just going to go ahead and if we find anyone who's running a blockchain node, we're not really for that organization.
	Because the government said, XYZ, you know what?
	We're going to go ahead and take these nodes off.
	I can see that happening real soon, actually.
	Exactly.
	So there's so many blockchains that haven't really thought about this.
	How do we get around that?
	And so our thing was, well, okay, what's the lowest energy chain that we can create?
	And we came out with AVAX, which is Avalanche.
	And we said, okay, we can fork Avalanche, make it faster, because it's very, very low energy.
	And what's something that everybody has access to so that if the grid were to go down or if Amazon or Google Cloud or any other of these services said, nope, you can't run a node, and they said, nope, you can't do it, how do we keep the grid online?
	And that's where it was like, okay, well, solar power.
	So if you're a farmer in a different country and you say, okay, we call them Orion, and we're in development right now, hardware development.
	I'm actually flying to Romania on June 7th to go speak to the team.
	July 7th?
	July 7th, yes.
	Sorry.
	Maybe we fly out to Romania and speak to the team there, and we have the PCB board we're building from scratch.
	Wow.
	And this thing is very, very low energy, and basically it can be run by a few solar panels.
	And we're going to be shipping those out to anyone who wants to validate and keep the And if they hold the node, if they actually purchase the node, essentially they would be able to keep the network online and every transaction incentivizes them to keep that network online.
	So wait a second.
	Alright, this is already really fascinating by the way.
	So how many watts of energy does OneNote need to keep running?
	Okay, so great question.
	So we're using...
	Okay, so there's two different packages.
	One of them is using Starlink.
	Obviously, you can't use Starlink for all of them because that wouldn't be decentralized.
	You'd be centralized.
	But we are offering Starlink as an option so you can get satellite.
	Because if their telecom goes down...
	If you have a catastrophe, if AT&T or whoever might say, oh, you know what?
	We can't get service in this area.
	We can get satellite.
	Also, the nodes come with Wi-Fi and Ethernet.
	So they can also do the power directly into whatever you have set up for your house or your home.
	The other part of it...
	So let me capitalize on what you said about wattage.
	link, the wattage is a little high because they do it by responses.
	So every time you get the response and pull the response, it's like, you know, the wattage is kind of high.
	What we've come out to so far, um, about three solar panels and the node's really small.
	It's only like this big.
	So it's, it's a very, very small device.
	Um, but we're making them weatherproof so that you would be able to have it.
	Like if you even build like a little thing for it, if you're not in like a harsh weather condition or climate, you'd be able to actually run the node.
	It has cooling it has heat sinks, everything, um, that we're building for it.
	And, uh, you'd be able to keep it in a location, um, and it'd be weatherproof.
	And then we're going to be, uh, implementing that with the Starlink as well.
	And like I said, there's two packages.
	They can have it with or without.
	Can I nickname your project?
	We call it the Apocalypse Protocol.
	This would be the last blockchain system that would be working in a power grid collapse scenario.
	Maybe people have...
	I mean, like a 100-watt solar panel is not difficult to get.
	It's very affordable right now and with a little bit of a battery.
	But I guess...
	You're obviously not then doing proof-of-work algorithms that are energy-intensive like Bitcoin.
	No, we're doing proof-of-stake.
	And actually, Avalanche is typically – Avalanche is delegated proof-of-stake out of the gate.
	So we had to customize the base code.
	So we were doing proof-of-stake.
	And we don't like delegated proof-of-stake because it kind of forms kind of a cartel.
	Yeah.
	Kind of because you get extra votes based on the nodes and that kind of thing.
	We did away with that.
	So it's completely proof of stake, very low energy, and everyone will be installed with the proper software and everything right out of the gate.
	And then obviously you can also run traditional nodes on our blockchain as well.
	It's just we kind of push for that solar and we push for that off-grid infrastructure Because in the event that something happens, and we call it indestructible doomsday situation, then we'll have a backup.
	And we have a large backup of people running these Orions that can keep the protocol online.
	I'm sure you've probably thought about this, but what about integration with mesh network hardware that's coming out that has some pretty good local reach?
	You're smiling.
	Go ahead.
	It's funny you say that.
	So the team that I'm flying out to in Romania, they actually want to talk to me.
	They have really close partners, and they want to talk to me about that.
	And that was kind of my first...
	The way that they described it, I guess there's different devices in all the areas, and it's more of a mesh net internet than it is...
	Is that what you're talking about?
	More of the mesh net internet that's run by several devices in the location?
	Yes, actually, local radio devices.
	I know there's some new microchips Yeah.
	Chipsets on the market right now that are just now being implemented into some hardware solutions that have pretty amazing range, although not crazy high bandwidth.
	But, you know, if your blockchain is efficient, you don't need tons of throughput in order to keep the thing alive.
	Correct.
	Yeah, I thought it was fascinating.
	We're actually going to talk about that a little bit.
	But the team we have is phenomenal.
	You know, like I said, we're just about done with the PCB board design and then we move into fabrication.
	We're moving at lightning speed.
	Everything that we do, we're always very transparent.
	We always speak to the community.
	DeFi has a bad name of founders being really passionate right out of the gate and then not seeing things through.
	I've been acquired three times.
	I know how to see a project through to fruition and see it either through exit or see it through growth.
	I think that's one thing that's really missing is that we have a lot of younger people that come into the space.
	They don't really have that experience.
	And I'll tell you this, the world of cryptocurrency is tough because it's not like your standard.
	You raise money from a VC and these people are accredited investors and they understand, hey, you know what?
	It takes time.
	I'm not going to sweat you.
	I'm not going to chase after you with pitchforks because you missed something up.
	The world of DeFi, especially if you're a startup and you're a founder and you're starting up for the first time, it's very daunting.
	People will look you up.
	They'll say stuff about you on social media.
	That's why for myself, at least, and I know for our project, I've always branded myself as just look at my work, look at my implementations.
	I've had Very many implementations in this space that I've seen to launch into fruition.
	And so it's just integrity is number one.
	Seeing a product build through and ensuring that you're always consistent and you communicate with your community.
	Oh, yeah.
	That's a hard thing for a lot of people to do, especially when they don't have that experience.
	Yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up, Ryan, because I've come to learn, too, just from the relatively short time that I've been really investigating in this space, having a lot of conversations with a lot of project leaders and conducting interviews.
	There are many more done than what people have seen so far publicly, by the way.
	And I've noticed the critical importance of the maturity of the leadership.
	If the values and ethics and experience of the leaders don't align with a pattern of success, then it could be a really problematic project.
	I've already seen that.
	And so I'm really glad you brought that up.
	Let me ask you, if you don't mind, some questions about your project.
	So from what you've described so far, It sounds like it can be a very resilient, low-energy usage, off-grid scenario type of blockchain with, again, innovative models designed to remain resilient even without easily acquirable power.
	But aside from that, on top of that, what is the main focus of this?
	The project itself, is it to store and transfer value?
	Is there a communications protocol that rides on top of this?
	How do you see then the application of it once you've built out this, this sounds like pretty amazing, infrastructure for resilience?
	Yeah, great question.
	So there's a three-prong approach.
	Right now, out of the gate, we have what's called three subnets.
	And so one subnet would be in charge of the energy trading democratization marketplace.
	And that's connecting with energy traders, grid operators, and consumers.
	That's one subnet.
	The other subnet would be kind of our innovation.
	And you need to bring volume.
	I mean, that's the biggest thing.
	You don't really have a blockchain unless you're bringing volume because node operators will not want to keep the node running if they're not being rewarded in some way.
	So there's no way for them to say, oh, I'm going to run my node all the day.
	I'm going to use all this energy and I'm not getting rewarded.
	No one's using the chain, nothing.
	So you have to have some kind of innovative play.
	And so that's our chain X. Our X chain is basically the dApps, NFTs, different projects that kind of align with our ethos that we'll partner up with.
	And then obviously other decentralized projects that don't need to partner up with us that can launch in the chain.
	And then there's another play and that's our private chain.
	So that's private.
	So very similar to Monero.
	And we're doing this a way where we can have private transactions.
	So all three chains would use the same Dione coin within the ecosystem, but all three chains are run by different sets of nodes.
	Really?
	Yes.
	So that's how we're building it.
	And I'm more of the one who's the bigger on the private transactions and that private play because I think that's very important.
	And that's the spirit of decentralization, right?
	Because you have something like Bitcoin, for example.
	And I know there's a lot of other companies out there.
	For example, I'm at Blockchance right now.
	And this is the hotel room I'm in.
	So sorry if the internet's bad.
	Oh, it's the hotel.
	Okay, yeah.
	Yes, yes.
	So I'm in the hotel at Blockchance in Germany.
	And so I was there.
	And actually, one of the people that were there were called Chainalysis.
	And they actually have a software where...
	They can hook it in, you get a wallet address, and they can see every single transaction you've ever done on a heat map, and kind of like a bubble map, and you can see every little thing that that person sent back and forth.
	And it's anonymous to an extent because it's just a wallet address.
	But once you can identify the wallet address, obviously you can identify the person.
	Because that wallet address, in many cases, will connect to something called a hot wallet, which is an exchange.
	And so there goes your decentralization.
	That's no longer decentralized.
	So now you've just perverted what was supposed to be something private and great for the people that is not so great and private for the people.
	And so this big part of this, of my DNA going into this, is this private chain that we're building out as well.
	Yeah, I'd like to ask you about that.
	Of the three chains you mentioned, that's the most immediately interesting, I think, to our audience and also to me.
	The energy trading, I mean, that seems like a very complex problem.
	Very.
	Right, because you actually have to deliver...
	The wattage.
	I mean, you know, it has to have physical infrastructure to deliver, and then somehow that has to be abstracted and represented in the blockchain.
	And it's not clear to me how that would work.
	I welcome you to explain it more.
	But first, can I ask you then, so about the privacy coin, is that something that's live right now or in process of being live?
	Or what's the timeline on that?
	Yeah, so we just launched our test net today.
	So we're on testnet.
	So those who don't understand what testnet is, think of a website.
	You have staging server, and then you have your production server.
	Well, we're in staging right now.
	So our internal QA is testing that out.
	We're in testnet, meaning that we have five nodes running right now, the test chain.
	And once we start getting out all those bugs and start testing it, we're going to be pushing that to production, which is mainnet.
	And Mainnet will be – that will be finished in about August.
	So we're already – and we did this, Mike, under seven months.
	Not only did we do this under seven months, we finished our staking program.
	We have a wallet app that's already out.
	We have, you know, our contracts already audited for governance.
	I mean, we are flying because I'm all about ensuring that we make our deadlines and we deliver.
	And that's something new for this industry.
	Yeah, right, right.
	So you mentioned that it's like Monero.
	Did you borrow from Monero?
	Or what projects or tech did you borrow from in order to build this so quickly?
	Or what's your approach to privacy?
	Yeah, so we're built off of the Avalanche chain, fork, and so this would still be a proof of stake.
	So Monero, I believe, proof of work, but we're going to be doing proof of stake with this, and then we're going to have a closed protocol for the proof of stake transactions that go back and forth between client to client.
	So...
	That's not done yet.
	Our private chain isn't done yet.
	Our X chain is done.
	Our C chain is done.
	Our M chain is done.
	But our private chain is...
	Yeah, go ahead.
	Yeah, okay, sorry.
	No, but I'm always fascinated because there's so many different approaches to privacy, like Monero using ring signatures and stealth addresses and so on.
	What...
	Zero knowledge proofs, the whole deal.
	ZK snarks, whatever the case may be.
	Can you tell us yet?
	What's your recipe for achieving privacy?
	We would be client to client, encrypted client to client.
	That's how we're looking at it right now.
	We don't have our private chain done yet.
	We are looking at different ways.
	We have the subnet ready to go.
	But the way that we hide, the way that we're hiding the transactions back and forth are a completely different field.
	So what we're looking at right now though, just to kind of give you a little idea of how this would work, we're looking at partnering with a company who can kind of help us with this private chain and this is their approach and it's very cool.
	Okay, so you know how you have a wallet address and you create a wallet address.
	Well, what do you do when you create a wallet address?
	You have a private key that goes along with that.
	Yes.
	So their approach, and which we liked a lot, and this is kind of how we're going to bring this into our private chain, their approach is, well, why don't you create a wallet address with a private key, and why don't you give that private key to someone else?
	And now they own the private key, and that's the way you transfer.
	No longer seeing a transfer go on the blockchain.
	You're actually just distributing private keys, the ownership of private keys back and forth.
	But then somehow every wallet's transaction would have to be re-aggregated into like a final wallet that the user sees the sum of all those transactions, I guess.
	Yes.
	And their technology, though, literally encrypts it and it changes the ownership of that address directly.
	To someone else's address on-chain.
	So that means the only technical problem they have to solve is encrypted messaging, in essence.
	Correct.
	You're sending somebody the ability to reconstruct the wallet that has the digital assets in it.
	Correct, because the private key is what you have the ownership.
	As long as you only have the private key, as long as you have that, you can access that wallet.
	So essentially, the way to look at it is you're not seeing where these transfers are going back and forth.
	All you're doing is if I'm sending you a digital asset, I load up a wallet and then I have a private key that comes along with that and I send you the private key and then you access that wallet.
	So it's a very different approach.
	But we're extrapolating on their technology to kind of take that in and bring that into our private chain because I thought it was genius.
	The way that they're doing this and approaching this is absolutely genius because there is no history of how that digital asset is transferring from one wallet to the other because it's not.
	It's just you're loading up a wallet and then you're renouncing that ownership And someone else is taking that ownership and then accessing that.
	Well, yeah, I'm interested to learn more about that.
	I have a ton of questions about that.
	I mean, right now, so your private key, let's say in Monero, your private key gives you access to the outputs of transactions on-chain, right?
	So you claim control over those transaction outputs.
	And the sum of that is your spendable balance in the wallet.
	But what you're talking about, is it kind of just, in a sense, changing the terminology?
	So you're transferring wallet IDs instead of transaction IDs, in a sense.
	But then somebody would have to have a bunch of wallets, which are really kind of like a bunch of transactions.
	Or am I getting this wrong in some way?
	Yes, correct.
	So the way to think about that is...
	Now, this is their approach, but there's more underlying technology that encrypts that...
	Private key on the chain.
	Now, they have a blockchain already.
	And so we thought, okay, there's a way to pull this technology into our chain so that we're kind of using something similar.
	But I just thought, okay, their approach to this is it's not where you set up chain analysis and they can map all the transactions from this wallet to this wallet to this wallet.
	There is none of that.
	It's, hey, Mike, I want to send you $100 in X digital asset.
	Here we go.
	I went ahead and sent you a private key that you now can access.
	I don't know the private key, but once I send it and I renounce your, I believe it's a wallet address that allows you to access the private key.
	Once you do that, you can open it up and you can do whatever you want with that digital asset.
	There is no transfer from my wallet to your wallet.
	But there's a message that comes to my client That message then contains the private key accessing the wallet.
	Yeah, I don't mean to get too geeky on this, but I'm open to exploring it later on.
	I'd love to learn more about this because there are many different approaches to privacy and all of them are complex, right?
	There's no simple solution to true privacy.
	So I've never heard of this approach before.
	I'm not going to belabor the point here, but I do want to hear more about it later on as you develop it more.
	It's fascinating.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And this was something where we had a call with these guys and it was one of those things where my mind was just blown.
	I was like, oh my gosh, this is perfect.
	This is a genius approach to a problem that I can understand, like a large space problem.
	Yeah.
	That, you know, they're already out.
	They already have it, you know, functioning.
	And so we're going to see how we can implement that.
	Now, if it's not, and if it's not possible, then we can always take a different approach.
	Like I said, where private chain is not done yet, this is something where it's my DNA. It's something I really want to push out.
	And for Testnet already, what we do have working, though, is our main chains, which are more open and public.
	Okay, yeah.
	Tell us about the power side of this.
	I don't quite grasp what...
	Your coin is allowing people to accomplish in the power industry.
	Can you kind of walk us through that again, please?
	I apologize if I'm not picking it up quickly.
	I haven't read any of your materials before this interview, so I apologize.
	But kind of break it down for us, if you would, please.
	So the way that we're approaching this is, first we start with microgrids or smaller farms.
	Now, there's different ways to transport energy, and that's the biggest thing.
	Okay, you could tally up and track the energy units.
	You can tally up and track, okay, this energy provider has X amount of units and this one wants to purchase this amount.
	The way that we're thinking about doing this is there's power walls, right?
	Or there's giant energy transport units that people can purchase so that if they wanted to – say, for example, someone has a giant solar farm, and they want to be able to say, oh, well, I take all my energy and I just sell it back to the only grid that I have access to.
	So basically what we would do is say, well, we would partner up with like Powerwalls and other energy transport, larger batteries that we can transport this energy and take it over into other areas or jurisdictions where if people are in that area, they can draw off that energy as well, larger batteries that we can transport this energy and take it over into other areas or jurisdictions They can draw off that energy as well and they can barter back and forth.
	I think you're talking about charging energy storage devices and then physically transporting those devices to a destination where people would consume that energy from storage devices.
	Is that...
	That's one approach.
	So the biggest thing would be to...
	Right now, the number one approach that we're taking is to partner with bigger grid operators.
	That's the number one approach.
	The other idea that we're looking at while we get up to that point is, hey, how can we transport this energy on a smaller scale?
	That's where it comes into microgrids.
	That's the transport the energy through bigger power walls or gigawatts of power.
	Our first approach is always going to be bigger grid operators that will partake in the system of being able to manage and then have a transparent ledger of all the units and the energy units that are being traded from person to person who are on our marketplace.
	That was the first – that's our approach and that's what we're doing right now.
	But obviously having through consultants because we have other people that we work with to consult with, how can we do this in a way where we can kick this can down the street a little further and a little faster?
	And a few consultants were like, well, there's also other ways we can transport energy as well.
	And it's becoming more available to us through ways of larger batteries.
	No doubt.
	The future is really going to be extraordinary in terms of energy storage.
	We're just a couple of breakthroughs away, I think, from some really amazing battery capacity improvements.
	For where things stand right now, from what I understand, what you're saying is that essentially the Dione protocol would allow, it's a way to buy and sell and trade energy credits from grid operators, and this ecosystem would be powered by the Dione coin.
	Correct.
	Okay.
	So what problem does that solve that isn't already handled by the current way that it's done, which is very centralized?
	Just that, that it's very centralized.
	Trying to be the first project in this space who actually creates it in a way that's decentralized so that we can have a little bit more of a competition.
	I believe that Once you have specific players, like you have maybe other people who want to make a business out of this and they have a larger solar farm, they say, you know what?
	I can offer you energy too.
	I have a neighborhood.
	We have a smaller neighborhood of X amount of people in our location and we want to be able to offer you energy.
	You're only three houses down.
	I would love for you to be able to You know, buy the energy from us rather than buying it from PG&E or whoever the other centralized power is.
	And that's where we're going and that's where we want to go because then that takes people off the grid.
	You're no longer dependent on shore power or municipalities.
	You're more saying, hey, I'm bringing this back to more of a neighboring approach or the quote-unquote village as we used to always have.
	I can trade my energy now back and forth between someone who's not very far away who has a giant solar farm.
	I feel better doing that because I'm getting a better price.
	Or at least I'm helping with the community.
	Okay, but how do you...
	So how does that solar farm physically deliver the energy to that specific house?
	And the other question is, you know, it's very costly to transmit power over any real distance, right?
	So locally, you have the most efficiency, the most cost-effectiveness, but over high-voltage transmission lines, you start to lose the power you've generated But even the electrical plumbing, so to speak, of all this, how does that local solar farm deliver energy to the houses that want to buy it from that solar farm?
	That's where our consultants were talking about doing different ways where we transport larger power walls.
	A lot of houses right now are putting in power walls, are saving energy in their own way.
	And doing it that way before we start partnering up with bigger energy providers or grid operators.
	So that's the hardest part of this part is how do we transport that energy and how do we get it?
	Now microgrids, smaller players, we understand that whenever we start this chain, there's going to be a very, very small amount of grid operators that will partake.
	But all you need is a few, right?
	All you need is a few that say, okay, you know what?
	We want to get onto the system.
	How can we, you know, utilize your blockchain in a way where we can, you know, possibly get other people that are around our locale that we don't, you know, have the opportunity to or to step into a market where you have this very blockchain and cryptocurrency is a very fervent market.
	It's very people who love, you know, finding utility in their projects.
	You know, if you offer something as a cryptocurrency, people are very fervent and they'll tell everybody about it and they'll want to use every product that comes out with it.
	So you have your opportunity to dip into that market too.
	And so that's kind of how we're, the way that we're approaching this is, we understand there's a big problem here and there's kind of that gap.
	How do we do it in a way where we are stepping into this and making partnerships first with smaller entities that are more open to adoption, I guess you could say.
	And those entities happen to be the smaller microgrids.
	I don't know if you caught this, but I did a podcast one time talking about if there were theoretically a small object like a thumb drive that could hold an infinite amount of kilowatt hours.
	And that people would carry around energy and they would trade energy.
	That the energy itself would be the currency.
	Because everybody can use energy.
	Everybody needs it.
	Now your project, Dione Protocol, is, I think, starting to scratch the surface of that kind of system.
	But the battery technology today is, of course, still lacking a lot.
	Like a Powerwall.
	Yes, it is.
	Turn on the dryer and the stove and the blender and a hair dryer, whatever, and it's gone.
	You know what I mean?
	And the air conditioner, right?
	So we're probably a couple orders of magnitude away or more from, I think, that transportability of power that would really make the economics of your idea...
	I think just obviously abundant and would make it explode.
	Are you thinking those innovations are coming and that you're building this infrastructure in anticipation of that?
	Absolutely.
	Well, 100% we believe that the partnerships that we are talking to right now and the interest that we have, a lot of these people are saying there's no one even coming into this space.
	So many of them are so...
	They're using such legacy systems and they're so old they don't even understand how blockchain technology works.
	No one takes the time to really show how can it work, what are the options.
	So what we're starting with is how do we create a reward system first around this rather than transporting the energy first, getting people in because whenever you create a software, obviously you have to have that buy-in.
	You have to have user adoption.
	So how can we make it so it's a trifecta of success for the user and then also for the great operators to want to buy in and say, hey, What can we do?
	And we want to have a reward system first so that people can understand the marketplace, know how it works.
	There's other things they can get benefits for, for looking at how they're using energy, how they're saving energy, that kind of thing.
	Starting there and then having this entire infrastructure in place so that whenever there's an easier way for us to connect or use ports to port in from one person who wants to Purchase energy and one person who wants to sell it, then we'll be ready.
	But there's nothing out there right now that kind of has the framework to be able to handle this.
	And I think a lot of that is obviously it's just like working with any enterprise company.
	There's that back and forth of what integrations do we need?
	What's the format of the data?
	How do we bring it in so that it actually works with our infrastructure and Your bandwidth was degrading quite a bit there.
	Sorry, I'll wait for it to catch up.
	But if you can hear me, let me ask this question.
	So, but someone who's skeptical of this, though, is going to say probably that, okay...
	Until this project is actually moving kilowatt hours around in some way, then it's really just a testnet project.
	Like, its own ecosystem self-containment is not impacting the actual movement, you know, of power from here to there, buying and selling, and so on.
	And I understand what you're saying, that you have to build the infrastructure first.
	I totally get that.
	Perhaps I'm missing this, but I still don't understand how does a grid contributor, like a solar farm...
	How do they deliver energy to specific customers?
	Maybe I'm ignorant about how the whole grid actually works, but even if somebody today says, I want to sign up for only solar power, how do they get that power?
	I mean, how is it even possible for them to get that specific power, or is it offset somewhere in the whole system?
	Do you have an answer for that?
	Am I confused about this?
	No.
	No, that was – when I came onto this project, that was the exact question I had was how would this energy transport from one person who wants to offer it and one person who wants to sell it?
	Right.
	Or buy it.
	How do you marry those two?
	Do you have pipes in the ground?
	Is there – what is it?
	After we started looking into it, and what got me and what really got my buy-in on this project was talking to consultants of microgrids, where I guess for microgrids, there's a way where you can hook in.
	First, you can talk to these consultants, talk to these grid operators who are offering and have rewards because everything right now is going energy saving.
	People are trying to use less energy for watering their lawn or what have you.
	We would be able to have an infrastructure in place that would be able to reward people for that.
	And then there would be that benefit back to people who are doing that and saving their energy in the ways that are best set forth by the grid operators.
	Now, as far as the energy transport, I think that...
	As time goes on, and we see with battery power, we see how much more we can save.
	I think that as time goes on, there's going to be other, I'm not saying nuclear power, but there's other ways to transport energy that I think that we haven't really even tapped into yet.
	I believe nuclear power is one of them, but that's on a consumer grade.
	I'm sorry.
	No worries.
	No, it's the hotel bandwidth.
	It's kind of fading in and out.
	So it's not your fault.
	It's just the hotel.
	But let me pose this question.
	And again, I apologize for my ignorance about this.
	I'm sure some viewers are going to chime in and they're going to say, no, man, this is how it works.
	Well, let's say, like, I live in Texas.
	Texas has its own power grid, right?
	It's a self-contained grid.
	It's not connected to the east or the west grid that the rest of the continental United States is connected to.
	If I sign up for, let's say, I want to get nothing but wind power.
	There's a lot of wind power in Texas.
	If I sign up for some kind of wind power offering, then I want wind power only to power my home, let's say.
	So they're going to charge me the wind power rate, which is probably higher than the regular rate.
	But I'm pretty sure that the actual kilowatt hours from the wind turbines never probably come to me.
	Probably there's a grid operator somewhere else in Texas that is just then saying, okay, we're going to buy more wind power to offset this wind power demand by this consumer.
	But once it gets into the Texas grid, it's all just kilowatt hours.
	You know what I mean?
	It's just they're going to buy more wind power versus not buying coal power, let's say.
	And I'm somewhat confident of this answer that once it goes into the grid, electrons are electrons.
	Nobody knows where they came from exactly.
	It's just what they're buying to feed the grid.
	Propane, coal, wind, nuclear, whatever.
	It's how much they're buying.
	Does that sound right or am I getting this wrong?
	No, you're exactly right.
	So the way that we're looking at it is how do we get people on...
	First, from a software standpoint, how do we get people on that are helping and kind of shaping their behaviors in a way that they're being a little bit more conservative with whatever their power use is and rewarding it so that grid operators and these power providers can, I guess you could say, offer better benefits?
	That's the first approach.
	Second approach is How can we trade those energy units?
	Now, we don't have, for the trading of the energy units, whereas it's transport, that's way far off.
	That's something that we're saying, okay, that's great.
	That's something that would, like I say, a three-, five-year plan.
	Our main focus is how to reward people for being more energy conscious.
	And that's more of the approach that we're taking right now.
	And we can do that through the blockchain, obviously.
	And then we would have to set up integrations with the meters and things of that sort.
	And so that's kind of our approach first.
	So you're also saying that...
	No, this is actually starting to make more sense.
	It's pretty cool.
	So you're also saying that your coin is redeemable for energy.
	Correct.
	That's exactly right.
	So someone could stockpile your coin as a store of future energy consumption.
	Exactly.
	Okay.
	Now I'm starting to get it a little more.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	Since everybody needs kilowatt hours, it's just like people stockpile food.
	They know they're going to eat.
	You're going to need electricity.
	So if you could pre-purchase tomorrow's energy at today's prices, let's say, by stockpiling your coin, Dione Protocol, With a reliable method to translate that back into energy consumption, then I can definitely see a case where that coin representation of energy has intrinsic value.
	Correct.
	And it creates utility.
	So now you're having volume, right?
	And like I said, with the transport energy stuff, that's something we're dabbling and we're looking into.
	I think it's really cool.
	But that's something that's way farther off.
	The intrinsic value, like you said, but the utility now is how do we use our token in a way that people can use it so that they're still purchasing the same thing.
	They're just using a different method of doing that, the different asset.
	And through that asset, because of the volume, there's ways that we can do through transaction fees.
	Obviously, you know when a blockchain, every type of transaction has a transaction fee that's associated with it.
	So people will be more incentivized to use our token.
	Or use our coin, I should say.
	It's not a token.
	It'll be a coin because it's on the chain.
	Then we can offer rewards for that.
	So people who do, like you said, stockpile more, like staking, you have more, you're getting back more rewards because there's more people utilizing it.
	No one's doing this.
	No one has even thought about this or isn't even close to doing anything like this.
	And we have infrastructure ready to rock and roll, but the hard part is obviously getting these The grid operators to kind of wrap this around their head and understand blockchain first and see like this is a different way and a different approach to selling your energy.
	Well, I think, if you don't mind me saying, I think no one's doing this because it's incredibly complex.
	You have really chosen a complex project.
	But let me bring up the website here for ERCOT, E-R-C-O-T. So this is the Texas Power Grid website.
	And this actually shows at real time how many megawatts are in demand.
	And what's interesting is see wind and solar.
	So in Texas they track wind inputs and solar inputs versus the total demand on the grid.
	Actually, I think ERCOT does a pretty good job here in Texas.
	They've kept the grid up most of the time, except not January of 2021, but that's in the past, when we had the big freeze.
	Nevertheless, so you could perhaps go to an organization like this with your idea, your platform, and say, hey, We could help revolutionize and even democratize your whole system of supply and demand and staking and buying and selling through this coin protocol.
	Yeah, go ahead.
	That's exactly right.
	And just like anything else, there would be jurisdiction-centered.
	So you might have only one grid operator in a certain area that would offer it, and that's all there would be offered in our marketplace.
	But...
	The thing about cryptocurrency is once you have a product or you have something that people can go to their parents or go to their family and say, no, look, there's intrinsic value.
	This coin has use.
	I was able to buy my energy with it or I was able to buy a candy bar with it.
	That to people means so much to them because now they can go out and they can say, no, it's not just a trading coin.
	It's not just this thing that I just hold.
	I actually have real-world value.
	I think that companies are starting to realize that, wow, this is a market we haven't tapped into yet.
	These people are like almost with religious fervor, like very, very excited to use their tokens on something that gives them real-world value.
	Well, that's what – this show is all about real-world application of this technology.
	You probably know from seeing our other episodes, but we're not interested in just a trading coin, right?
	We're interested in something that has application in reality or a store of value or something that can be redeemable for something else of value.
	Utility, the real-world use is what I believe gives value to these projects.
	And you've taken on something, I've got to say, you've got some balls, man.
	I mean, you've taken on a big project, but it is intriguing.
	We're going to wrap up this interview here just in terms of time, but I would love to talk to you again as you roll this out and find out more about the progress that you're making.
	But you've taken on something pretty big here, Ryan.
	Yeah.
	Thank you.
	No, we have 100%.
	People even said, oh, you're going to launch a blockchain in seven months.
	We launched the blockchain in seven months.
	We have a locker that we've completed and our locker is actually customized.
	So now we have a locker that people can use as kind of a payment method so that And I have something called Vi.AI, which I created, and it's an AI suite.
	And essentially, you can use a locker, and you can stake a certain amount of any token, and then you get the annual subscription for free.
	Now you're immediately giving utility to that token.
	And so we've created this from scratch.
	We've created government contracts.
	We did all of this, Mike, within under seven months.
	So I like...
	We do nothing but develop, nothing but work 24-7.
	I understand that this is like a big play.
	And I have other clients that I work with.
	Like I said, Downey is not my only – because I own blockchain dev shops.
	So that's not my only client.
	They're the only ones that I'm out there with and I'm public with.
	But I do help a lot of others as well because that's what I do for a living.
	And I know you do too and you're getting into that a lot too.
	I'd love to talk to you more too on other things.
	I think that we should definitely reconnect because I love the fact that you're getting into decentralization now and you're really understanding the different use cases this has for projects that do mean well and do want to make a positive impact.
	Yeah, thank you for saying that.
	I believe that the success stories for this space are going to come out of these real-world applications.
	And if the Dione protocol begins to be embraced by some of these larger operators on the grid, that would be a game-changer for sure.
	So I want to keep in touch and find out about how you're applying it, what are your milestones, and if you get some of these big partners to come on.
	Or also, by the way, increases in battery storage density would make a big difference in this.
	I interviewed Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
	a few weeks ago about this.
	He's pro-crypto, and he also believes in solar and wind, and he's very much an opponent of coal power.
	But one of the issues that, of course, is still a stumbling block in this space is efficient storage, high-density storage of green energy, so to speak.
	And right now, frankly, all the storage solutions, they suck.
	Lithium also sucks.
	And the mining is horrible.
	We talk about bad for the environment.
	I mean, let's be real.
	Lithium is like the worst for the environment.
	You've seen those lithium mining plants.
	It's hideous.
	Oh, yeah.
	And they use a lot of fresh water too, by the way.
	Tons of water.
	And then you look at an oil mine and it's just one little thing and there's a patch of grass around it with cows eating.
	And you're like, how is – this is so much worse for us.
	It's just so backwards.
	I think that we still have many years to go before we kind of see like, hey, there's a better alternative.
	But yeah, I'm with you on that 100%, and I see the problem, and it's right there.
	I'm not one of those people who will say, oh, this is – but we just go along with it.
	No.
	I mean, there is a problem, and that's still a solution that's not solved.
	Yeah, I mean, it's incremental, right?
	It is step by step.
	That's how these things get solved, and there's not going to be a magical breakthrough, probably, even in battery storage densities.
	It's going to be incremental changes, you know, first doubling and then tripling capacity, and then maybe, you know, improving from there.
	Over a number of generations, you might get 10 times more capacity.
	Probably not just one.
	Probably not aliens are just going to drop tech from the sky that's like, oh, magical energy storage devices.
	Although that would be awesome.
	Because then everybody would be building handheld lasers, which would be a whole new era of keeping and bearing arms.
	Like, what?
	You got a laser?
	Yeah.
	It's like Han Solo's running around everywhere, shooting Greedo in the bars.
	But anyway, this is awesome, Ryan.
	So the website, folks, is dioniprotocol.org.
	And our guest today is Ryan Arriaga.
	Thank you, Ryan, for taking the time to join me.
	I'm sorry I kept you so long, but I had a lot of questions.
	So thanks for enduring them.
	Appreciate you.
	For those of you watching, the website again is dioneprotocol.org.
	Now just remember, this is a rule for the whole show.
	I never recommend buying anything.
	I don't make any price predictions.
	It's not about speculation.
	But if you are interested in this project, which again, they're not a sponsor, right?
	Ryan didn't pay me to have him on.
	You can learn more at his website.
	Make your own decisions.
	Do your own research and make decisions that are aligned with your own values.
	That's my universal recommendation on all these things.
	We will talk to Ryan again, no doubt, in the months ahead and see where he's going with this project because I do love real-world applications of this, and I love the idea of being able to buy and sell representations of kilowatt hours.
	I think that's a really cool concept.
	Let's see if Dione Protocol can make that a reality.
	So thanks for watching this interview segment.
	I'll be joined in the next segment here with my co-host, Todd Pitner, with his and my reaction to this interview.
	So stay tuned right here on decentralized.tv for that reaction coming up next.
	Join the official discussion channel for this show on telegram at t.me slash decentralized TV where you can ask questions or offer suggestions of who we should interview next.
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	Check it all out at decentralized.tv.
	Okay, welcome back to Decentralized TV, and now I'm joined by my co-host, Todd Pitner, with the reaction to that interview.
	Welcome back, Todd.
	Great to have you join us.
	Thank you, as always.
	Thank you, Mike.
	All right.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	So you reviewed that interview, and sorry you missed it because the schedule didn't match up in case people are wondering, but you will be present in upcoming interviews, just to be clear, at least I hope, unless you have other crazy trips planned.
	End of August.
	So I have like eight weeks, seven and a half weeks before I try deep sea fishing one more time.
	Oh, you're going to try, you're going to go again.
	One more time, yes.
	Oh, wow.
	Okay, all right.
	I'm determined to go out there, just absolutely determined.
	So, yeah, one more four-day span.
	But you know what?
	We'll have so many interviews in the chamber, it won't be as bad.
	Well, how deep is your deep-sea fishing?
	Are you going to start dragging up submarine parts and things?
	Well, I heard the story from the guys that went out on Thursday that I didn't get up early enough to go do it.
	But they literally had something that was on that was like pulling up a tank.
	They fought it, fought it, fought it, finally had to let it go.
	So didn't know what it was, but it fought like crazy.
	And so that would have been fun, but they lost the battle.
	Maybe I'll go catch that one.
	Okay, all right.
	All right, well, we're glad you're back on land, safe and sound, and now you've had a chance to review the interview with Ryan on the Dione Protocol.
	So give us your thoughts, and we'll launch the discussion here.
	What do you think?
	Yeah, first of all, just...
	Relating to Ryan, I believe it's Aryaga?
	Yeah, that's right, Aryaga.
	But what a genuinely likable guy, you know, just watching the interview and he had just amazing energy and seems like he possesses a bit of unconscious competence relating to the subject matter, so I give him lots of thumbs up on that.
	Yeah.
	You know, my day job, Mike, is I work for a venture collective and we have 22 portfolio companies.
	And the one thing that our founders have preached for 25 years is that we just need to know who we are.
	And once we know who we are, which we are excellent direct-to-consumer marketers, then we go narrow and deep versus wide and shallow.
	So as I was trying to absorb everything that Ryan was presenting with the, I believe he calls it the three, bear with me, the three-pronged subnets, subnet 1, subnet 2, subnet 3.
	I found my eyes kind of glassing over, and that's what came to mind.
	I'm like, you know, they could take any single one of these, whether it's, you know, democratizing energy or their privacy protocol, and they could go narrow and deep on any one of those subnets.
	But by trying to conquer all three at one time, I just thought, man, that's a heavy lift.
	And there's so much work that I think needs to be done yet with each one of them, as I understood it from the brief interview.
	So I really, really applaud the vision.
	But I am worried about the ability to execute because it's just kind of like trying to eat an elephant all at once.
	That was my initial impression.
	I can go a lot deeper into that, but I hope that this audience knows that We invite anyone and everyone to be able to come on this show to be able to tell their story.
	And Ryan actually reached out to you, Mike, which is very, very cool.
	But it's not to be said that we're just going to be a fanboy of each project, because we care about the audience, right?
	So my honest feedback, Mike, is that it just almost seems...
	Too soon to evaluate some of it.
	But you are really a lot smarter than me because you were right there with him on the interview.
	So maybe you have a different impression.
	Well, okay.
	Yeah, thanks for all that feedback.
	So I agree with you.
	Ryan was great.
	We'd love to invite him back on.
	And I think he's got a lot of experience and knowledge and is a great analyst in this area as well.
	He has a lot of experience.
	I'd like to even ask him questions about other projects and get his take on that as well.
	I have concerns with the projects that he's describing, though, as you do, but my concerns are a little bit different.
	Number one, first of all, I think you're correct, that to bite off decentralization of power, plus messaging systems, plus private money, those are like three massive projects right there.
	For example, Monero has all kinds of coders and teams and essentially hundreds of people just working on private money.
	And it's a full-time job to get it right.
	It's not like an afterthought that you can just come in and say, and private money.
	So it's a big, big undertaking, no doubt, to do those things.
	So I agree with you on that concern, but my bigger concern, it's more of a timing issue.
	I love the idea of decentralizing power and credits for power.
	I think that that will be a very viable concept in the future.
	But right now, the very structure of power generation is necessarily centralized.
	Because it's only efficient to do it with large coal-burning plants or natural gas-burning plants or hydroelectric dams or wind farms or solar farms.
	It requires a massive investment.
	Of infrastructure.
	In fact, you know, green energy, let's say, even involves more upfront infrastructure investment than does fossil fuel energy.
	And although the efficiencies are higher long term over many green projects, the upfront capital investment is massively much larger.
	Yes.
	You have to have big corporations, deep pockets, big investors, and so on, which necessarily creates centralization in the power system.
	Yes.
	Now, I think that's going to change in the years ahead.
	I hope it does.
	And I've interviewed experts on technologies such as low-energy nuclear reactions, Lender, for example, that uses – it generates heat that can be used to boil water and drive small turbines that can power homes or Navy submarines or government buildings or that uses – it generates heat that can be used to boil water and drive small That's being commercialized right now with boiler companies or licensing deals with boiler makers that are going to use low-energy nuclear reactions.
	Okay.
	Which used to be called cold fusion, by the way.
	Now, nobody uses that term because that term was widely discredited.
	So it's just called low-energy nuclear reactions.
	And now suddenly it's all real, by the way.
	So with Lender, as it's called, if you had, let's say, over the next 20 years, if you had a lot of people sort of democratizing energy generation locally, then I think that the Dione Protocol approach then I think that the Dione Protocol approach –
	this layer of tokenizing energy, kilowatt hours tokenized in a free market system where you can buy, sell, and trade those credits, and you actually have a massively decentralized energy grid with potentially millions of contributors to the power rather than just the current number, then I think that would be a much better match.
	So, my assessment is right now that the Dione Protocol might be 10 years ahead of where the power grid is.
	Yes.
	Right?
	I mean, it seems like it's viable, but not in 2023 yet.
	No, in my mind, I tried to dumb it down so that I'll understand it.
	And I'm like, okay, if this is crypto...
	That I can use to basically buy, I don't even know, buy coins or tokens.
	Is it a layer one?
	I think it's a layer one.
	It's on Avalanche blockchain.
	But to me, it was kind of like, am I buying these tokens as a representative of energy in the future?
	And I'm ultimately going to be exchange that.
	And then I'm like, well, how in the heck is the energy going to get to my home?
	Because you and I both know that when it comes to energy to your home, it's the last mile that is the hardest, right?
	So how on earth is it going to go from my crypto to not the usual suspects delivering power in my area?
	But somehow, someway, it fuels my house.
	I don't know.
	That's why I joke when I sent my message back to you, said I just listened to it and signed me Well, I was confused about that point as well, as you heard in the interview, and I think I finally came to the conclusion that we're talking about offset credits, offsetting the inputs.
	So the power grid is, you know, once the electrons enter the grid, there's no distinction of really where they came from.
	But if I, as a consumer, if I want to say I only want to buy power that's, let's say, solar power, then I can demand that on my arrangement with my local electricity provider, and then what they can do is they can push that up the supply chain and say, well, then we need to buy a certain number of kilowatt hours of only solar power because that's what's been demanded by our customers.
	But in effect, you might be burning up kilowatt hours that were produced by coal.
	Got it.
	There's no way to know.
	I mean, it's all the same once it's on the grid.
	Okay, that makes sense.
	Yeah.
	That's a good way to think through it.
	It's really about the demand side of who are you paying to provide kilowatt hours to the grid.
	Right, right.
	To match the consumer demand side.
	And you just have to trust that if you said, I only want solar, that they would be going and submitting to the grid solar when that could be a centralized profit center to where they're like, okay, cool, I can charge you more for solar, but bring in the coal.
	Totally.
	In fact, you would expect that there would be audits of, let's say, power co-ops.
	And there are, by the way.
	Most of these power, some of them are co-ops, some of them are just corporations.
	You know, they're heavily regulated by the states in the United States, especially in California.
	You look at, what is it, Edison, what's it called there in California, do you recall?
	There's also PG&E, I think, and Edison, whatever.
	I don't live in California, so I don't know the names.
	But they're heavily regulated.
	In fact, they're heavily subsidized in many cases by the state.
	And so they don't really operate in free market ways.
	But...
	One of my concerns about the Dione protocol is how do you go to a major power grid operator and get them to sign up for your crypto protocol?
	From their point of view, they're going to say, well, our system's working just fine.
	We just bill people in dollars and we get paid in dollars and the state gives us dollars and whatever.
	Why do we need crypto?
	What's in it for us as the power company?
	And it's not clear to me that there's an answer to that yet.
	No, and that's what I think is needed, right, is he needs a couple of use cases to be able to come back and just simply present it, you know, present a presentation that says, here's how it works exactly, here's how it integrates with our blockchain.
	It's just, you know, I don't know, beside me confused still.
	Yeah.
	Well, but, you know, this brings up a really good point that there can be many projects that are ahead of their time where the rest of society has to catch up.
	Right.
	This might be one of those projects, right?
	It could be.
	You know, there was one day to where you and I didn't know there was even this company in existence called Amazon, right?
	Right.
	Now we rely on daily deliveries almost.
	So, yeah.
	I mean, this could be...
	Dione could be the Amazon of the future of energy.
	The other thing, and I mentioned this in the interview, is that we need a revolution in terms of orders of magnitude increase of efficiency of battery storage density.
	I love that.
	I love that.
	That made sense to me.
	Yeah.
	That made sense.
	Because once we have that, if you could put, like...
	Hey, are you happy to see me or is that 100 kilowatt hours in your pocket?
	If you could put kilowatt hours on a thumb drive or something and just trade them around, then that would be decentralized.
	Well, it depends if you're carrying it in your left or right pocket.
	I think it's pretty centralized to me.
	But you get my point.
	I do.
	If we had really good portable battery storage technology, let's say like Star Trek tech, like dilithium crystals, and you could hook up dilithium crystals to the grid, and you could have a whole solar farm just into the dilithium crystals, and you could have like...
	You know, gigawatt hours of power in there.
	And then you just you disconnect it and you walk around with it and you can like withdraw from it.
	Paper stuff with it.
	Yeah, right.
	Like I think electricity would be the best currency of all.
	I do.
	You just trade in kilowatt hours.
	I don't know if you recognize your own joke.
	What?
	The best currency of electricity would be the best currency of all.
	Oh, okay.
	No, I missed that one.
	I thought that was an on-purpose joke.
	No.
	That was brilliant.
	Okay.
	All right.
	All right.
	So current C. Yes.
	Yes.
	But, I mean, because talk about intrinsic value, right?
	Kilowatt hours have intrinsic value.
	Everybody needs power.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	It's brilliant.
	Right.
	But everybody doesn't necessarily need a coin that represents the power.
	Yes.
	But people need the power, so the question is how do you marry those two?
	Right.
	With today's tech?
	Yeah, with your little portable battery.
	It sounds to me like the technology is going to get there to where you can pack a lot of A lot of kilowatt hours onto one of those little guys.
	I think that's brilliant.
	I mean, to be able to go in and literally...
	Because a store is going to want electricity, right?
	So you could pay in fiat or kilowatt.
	Yeah.
	If that tech existed, that would be the ultimate actual currency.
	But look, here's something interesting.
	So our sponsor of the show, the satellite phone store, on their website, beready123.com, they have solar generators.
	So you can buy these kits that have solar panels.
	And then there's a charge controller.
	There's a lithium-ion battery system, EcoFlow.
	And then they have inverters and different sizes for different capacities, whatever.
	So when I went on a road trip, I don't know, a year and a half ago or so, I took one of these with me and I use it to power my laptop and, you know, electronic devices, a mobile phone and GPS and whatever, satellite communicator.
	And it worked great.
	It charged small devices.
	First of all, they're pretty heavy.
	So if you're going to have any kind of real storage of battery power, even lithium, it's pretty darn heavy.
	Some of these are like 50 to 80 pounds, depending on what you have.
	I mean, some of them are smaller than that, but there are ones that are heavier.
	One of them's got wheels on it.
	I got one of these units, and it came with its own wheels.
	So that gives you a hint right there.
	You have to cart it around.
	So...
	Power is not that portable right now.
	Right.
	I mean, hence the transmission lines.
	If you actually try to charge something and then take the kilowatt hours with you, it's heavy, man.
	Yeah.
	It's like you're not going to get very far carrying the batteries with you.
	You're going to need a revolution in energy to make this more viable.
	Right.
	But we probably need that anyway.
	The whole planet needs it.
	But low energy nuclear reactions, man, right there.
	Produces no emissions.
	No.
	Can you carry those in your right pocket too?
	No, it requires a unit, but it can charge your off-grid home.
	See, I mean, once these are commercialized, currently it just heats water, so it boils water, but you can turn boiled water into electricity with a steam turbine.
	Yes.
	Right.
	I mean, this is how nuclear power plants work, right?
	Right.
	They heat the water and then it produces steam.
	But you could have a home-sized unit.
	So if you're in, let's say, the big island of Hawaii, where a lot of people live off-grid there, because the power grid doesn't go over the whole island, by the way.
	Oh, interesting.
	Yeah, well, pretty rugged, you know, volcano slopes and everything else.
	Yeah.
	A lot of people live off-grid and they use solar.
	And that's great in Hawaii, but solar is not that great in a lot of European countries like the UK where the sun doesn't shine that much.
	And your latitude is so far north from the equator that your solar energy density is pretty low, especially during the winter when it's almost nothing.
	So low-energy nuclear reactions can generate power regardless of the weather.
	Right.
	And the chemtrails.
	Right.
	The geoengineering, whether it's dark outside or light or whether the wind is blowing or not, this is a steady state energy producer that is in the process of being commercialized.
	So there are revolutions coming.
	It's like everybody in the world is trying to get their hands on this tech.
	Right.
	I got you.
	Okay.
	Including the U.S. Navy?
	Because did you know, for example, I mean, maybe we're getting off topic, but not really.
	You know that all U.S. Navy aircraft carriers are nuclear powered, right?
	I did not know that.
	Okay.
	They only change the nuclear fuel once every 25 years.
	Oh, my gosh.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Because if you're an aircraft carrier, you know, you can't like, oh, we're out of gas.
	You can't roll into some port and just load up, you know, 5 million gallons of diesel.
	I've never contemplated.
	Yes, you're right.
	So all the aircraft carriers, the Nimitz-class carriers and now the new Gerald Ford-class carriers, they have two totally separate nuclear power facilities on the ship for redundancy.
	And there are nuclear engineers in the Navy that run these things, right?
	And so what do they do?
	They use nuclear fuel rods to heat water, to generate steam, to drive turbines, to generate electricity that powers everything on the ship, including the locomotion of the ship, the turbines in the water, whatever, what do you call them on the back of a ship?
	The propellers?
	Is there another term for that?
	I think it's propellers.
	Or bonus hole or something.
	I don't know what it is in the back of the ship.
	But anyway, all the power...
	We're going to work that into every show.
	Yeah, we are.
	And if we don't, we each have to put $10 in a jar.
	Yeah, exactly.
	The bonus hole jar.
	The bonus hole.
	But all the power on the ship comes from nuclear energy.
	Right.
	Including the, what is it, that launches the airplanes off?
	Yeah.
	The slingshot.
	Yeah, the slingshot thing, whatever that is, on the tarmac, and it accelerates the plane, right?
	That's all nuclear-powered.
	Gosh.
	Yeah.
	I mean, ultimately, yeah.
	I need one for my house.
	So, if they could replace nuclear power with low-energy nuclear reactions, then they wouldn't produce nuclear, like, radioactive waste byproducts.
	Got it.
	And it would be safer in case the ship got attacked and there was a breach of the containment section of the ship.
	It'd be safer because you don't have a radiation risk.
	Yeah.
	So anyway, the Navy's wanting this tech also.
	That makes all kinds of sense.
	That's amazing.
	And China wants the tech, and Russia wants the tech.
	You can imagine.
	Everybody on the planet wants to have a way to generate energy without using radiation, without having radiation side effects.
	It's a big deal, man.
	Yeah, but getting back to our topic today, something like that, as it is commercialized, I think that could really lead to decentralization of the power grid.
	I mean, it might take 20 to 25 years for these things to really get refined and commercialized and kind of scaled up, but...
	You know?
	I mean, how long is it going to take for hot fusion to ever come around and get done?
	They've been talking about that since the 1970s, and those things cost billions of dollars, and there's centralized power.
	Right.
	Right.
	I mean, it takes them like 30 years to build a hot fusion reactor.
	You know?
	Right?
	There's one coming online in Europe pretty soon, a few years down the road, they say.
	But anyway...
	Okay, so in terms of decentralized living, which is the focus of our show, what people can do right now is they can put solar panels on the roof of their home, right?
	But the problem with that is it's almost all grid-tie systems.
	So you're not really off-grid.
	You're tied to the grid, and when the grid power goes down, your local solar power also goes down because that's the way these inverters work.
	Didn't Jim Gale from Food Forest Abundance, didn't he say that they were entirely off-grid with solar?
	Did he say that?
	Yeah.
	I don't know.
	Yeah, maybe so.
	But if you go all off-grid and you're never tied to the grid, that's doable.
	Yeah.
	But if you're tied to the grid, then when the grid goes down, your solar goes down.
	Okay, perfect.
	Yes, you're right.
	You're right.
	But a purely off-grid system requires massive battery storage.
	Right.
	It's true.
	And that's where your cost is, actually.
	Yeah.
	Because those batteries, again...
	We're coming back to the same issue over and over again, Todd.
	The battery storage, energy storage tech, it sucks.
	It's just not ready for what we need as a civilization.
	And because...
	People aren't Elon Musk.
	They're not going to be subsidized by the U.S. government like Tesla was for its whole life, right?
	Well, even beyond that, I mean, get into the conspiracy side of this, but I think that the governments of the world, they benefit from scarcity.
	Oh, of course.
	Right?
	They don't want energy abundance for people.
	No, not at all.
	What is it?
	You called it the two weapons, fear and scarcity.
	Yeah, right.
	In food, in knowledge, information, technology, energy, whatever, and money, right?
	I mean, they print tons of money for themselves, but they make it scarce for us through inflation.
	Right, right.
	Scarcity of value of money, even though, oh, you might be flooded with dollars.
	There's dollars everywhere.
	They're just not worth anything.
	Right.
	You know?
	You want to be a billionaire?
	Well, give the government a few more years of printing money.
	Exactly.
	Yeah.
	It'll cost you a billion dollars to buy a sandwich at some point, as history has shown over and over again.
	Yes.
	Yes.
	I think there have been a lot of examples of technology that's been suppressed throughout the history of even the U.S. Patent Office.
	There'd be some tech, somebody would patent it, and then it would be declared a national security secret, and they'd just take the patent.
	Exactly.
	Like, you can't have this.
	Nope, nope.
	That could compromise the Druid Babylonian bastards.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Exactly.
	So probably the best that people can do today is some kind of a solar system with really expensive batteries and inverters that sometimes fail.
	You know, I've been down this road, too, and most of it doesn't work.
	That's been my experience.
	It really doesn't work that well.
	You know, let's talk about the one thing that did interest me when he was talking about his...
	Privacy coin strategy.
	Sure, go ahead.
	When Ryan, it's like, again, color me confused, but it's like instead of sending a transaction, like if I wanted to send you $100 I don't know.
	Let's just say Epic, just because it's on top of my mind.
	If Epic used this tech...
	Epic now, you're sending a mimble-wimble transaction.
	But the way he was talking about it was that it's about sending somebody not a transaction on the blockchain, but a...
	New wallet that is somehow auto-created or a sub-wallet that is sent in an encrypted way that has the keywords so that if I sent it to you, you would receive it, but then you could go download the blockchain and you could restore the wallet with those seed words.
	So you're really sending a wallet.
	And to me, it's like, man, that seems like Well, yeah, I was also a little bit confused about that.
	Obviously, we would need more information and we didn't have enough time in that interview to dig.
	But let's start with some basics.
	So when you send somebody a transaction on a blockchain, you're not really sending it to them.
	You're just posting it to the blockchain.
	Correct.
	And then their wallet checks the blockchain to ask the question, which transaction outputs do I own as a wallet?
	Right.
	So there's actually really nothing going from wallet to wallet normally except on the MemoWimble blockchain, which is a different issue because there's a handshake that takes place.
	Yeah, it's almost like you're sending somebody these super-secret binoculars, which now they can see their coins on the blockchain, right?
	Yeah, right, right.
	But it seems to me that you can say, okay, if you're posting transactions to a blockchain, That somebody else claims ownership over, which is the current system for most blockchains, if you're saying that, okay, we're just going to post wallets to some kind of ledger that's a distributed ledger, i.e.
	a wallet blockchain, and then somebody else claims those wallets, it seems to me, I don't mean any disrespect to Ryan on this, but maybe I need a better explanation, but it seems to me you've only interchanged the word transaction with the word wallet.
	It's still the same thing.
	Yeah, it seems that way.
	But he did keep referencing a they.
	Like there's a company that he would be using or a partner that he would be using that is really the magic behind what he's envisioning for his coin.
	And so, Ryan, if you're watching this, and I hope you are, Please reach back out to us and give us a sense of who are the they so that we can actually research it further.
	Yeah.
	Because if this technology exists, I know you, Mike.
	You're all up for it.
	We want to dig into it.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Because that's what this show is about, doing the heavy lifting for you viewers.
	I'm glad you mentioned that, Todd.
	Yeah, so I would say it's fair to say that right now we don't follow what Ryan is talking about, but we're open to learning more.
	Right, right.
	And I specifically think that on the energy side, or one of his three buckets...
	From my point of view, it's not a no to the project.
	It's just a not now.
	I think it's way too soon to evaluate.
	But if, you know, put us on the calendar for a year from today and come back with, you know, a progress report, something that we can actually, that it's not vision, but it's something operational.
	And man, we'd love to kick the tires again.
	I'm right there with you.
	We're going to designate this one as TSE, too soon to evaluate.
	You know, honestly, I think there needs to be more development.
	I would like to see the Dione protocol actually engage in some kind of a contract with a power supplier.
	You know, to like get the first agreement in place and then to be able to kind of use their system and see, you know, how does it work?
	How does an end user buy power through that system?
	It's not clear to me yet how that would function, but I'm open to it functioning.
	And it probably needs at least a year, maybe more, to have a pilot, I would guess, of how it works.
	And I'm open to that.
	But I agree with you.
	Let's designate this one TSE until further notice, until we learn more.
	Perfect.
	I mean, I think that's just the honest assessment right now.
	It's fair.
	It's fair.
	Yeah.
	But really enjoyed the interview.
	And again, he's a very, very competent person and looks to me like he has a track record of success that he's willing to share with those who inquire.
	And so I respect that.
	And the reason that I wanted to interview him about this, even though I don't obviously fully understand the project, is because I like to look at use cases of decentralization.
	Right.
	So we're talking about power here.
	Now, granted, maybe this is going to take many years to actually develop and apply.
	And maybe it won't fly at all, or maybe it's going to revolutionize the world.
	But at least it's talking about something other than just buy low, sell high, which is not interesting to us.
	We're talking about real-world applications here.
	Exactly.
	We could care less about Lambos.
	Yeah, Lambos and FOMOs.
	Oh, you left some FOMO in your Lambo.
	Don't forget to pick it up.
	All right, so fascinating discussion, though, and really glad to talk to Ryan, glad to talk to you, Todd, about this.
	And I do hope that all of these commodities, food, right, energy, even minerals or what have you, inputs that are used for manufacturing, I hope that in the future we can see all of these Represented by fair trade systems that are decentralized.
	Because, you know, centralization, it leads to corruption and fraud and weaponization against the people.
	So to the extent that we could decentralize power, I'm all for it.
	It's just that the technology is just not there yet and it's probably many years away before I think it's physically viable to have more decentralization of power.
	That's my take.
	I like your take.
	And the other thing that just keeps coming to mind is decentralization, organic decentralization.
	I think it just takes longer, Mike, because without a centralized entity that can go raise funds in the public markets, how are you going to fund all of the R&D to do this really, really well, especially if it's a community-based project?
	Right.
	And if you are using other means and you are cryptocurrency, then you have to be really careful with the SEC of being an unregistered security because they will come after you and they'll let you get really, really successful.
	For six years, eight years, ten years, right?
	And then come back.
	And so that was another thing that I was thinking throughout all of this.
	I was really curious.
	If I was there, I would have asked a few questions about, you know, how they're funded.
	That really interests me.
	But maybe we can take that offline with Ryan.
	Yeah, good point.
	That is a serious question, but I do think that over the next year or two, we're going to have maybe more regulatory certainty from the SEC. It might not be what we want to see, probably not going to be what we want, but at least it will eliminate the uncertainty that currently leads to a lot of...
	You know, a lot of risk that people wish to avoid.
	I actually, I see in the next year probably or two, the SEC laying out some ground rules.
	That will very likely favor Bitcoin for institutional investors.
	So you're going to see a lot more ETFs of Bitcoin.
	You're going to see the big banks jumping on it.
	I mean, right now you can buy Bitcoin, I think, through Fidelity, but you don't have self-custody.
	No, those are...
	IOUs.
	Yeah, those are IOUs, exactly, which I'm not interested in.
	Nope.
	Right?
	If I buy Bitcoin, I want to hold it and control it because otherwise you don't really own it.
	What's the point?
	Right.
	But for a lot of institutional investors, they don't need to hold anything.
	They don't care.
	They're comfortable using other people's money.
	Yeah.
	To buy something that is a promise of a payback.
	That's right.
	Which allows rehypothecation.
	Exactly.
	By the way, P.S. Exactly.
	This is going to be a huge problem that Bitcoin faces or a challenge in the years ahead because all these institutional investors holding Bitcoin, like Fidelity, like I mentioned, or BlackRock, how do we know they actually have the coins?
	Yeah.
	There's no way to know.
	There's no way to know.
	I mean, can you trust their audits?
	No.
	The whole point of peer-to-peer money is that you shouldn't have to trust anybody, that you have custody.
	It's under your control.
	And then you have these superpowers of financial institutions.
	I mean, they're going to ultimately just corrupt and control the blockchain entirely.
	Oh, yeah.
	In every way they can.
	If they can, they will do it.
	No question.
	And somebody like BlackRock, they could actually take on Bitcoin and achieve like a 51% majority of the mining.
	Yeah, easy.
	And then they could just start changing the rules.
	Maybe not easy, but...
	When you've got one-third of all the futures investments of the country in your portfolio, how many trillions of dollars, you can build mining farms.
	Yes.
	That becomes a rounding error.
	Yeah, pretty much.
	It's just a question of whether they want to do it.
	Yeah.
	To what end would they do it?
	Or to what end would Satan want to do it?
	Because I think Satan's behind that black rock.
	Does Satan have a mining farm operation?
	Cold storage.
	Cold storage.
	Wouldn't that be like burning hot storage?
	Yeah, there you go.
	Flaming, broiling storage?
	Flaming bonus hole.
	Sorry.
	Sorry.
	Could be.
	Could be.
	Okay.
	So I think that's enough discussion for today.
	We've covered a lot of areas.
	It's been fascinating.
	I love the fact that this format that we're doing here, Todd, we interview a guest and then it leads to quite a brainstorm of issues that are really important.
	Yeah.
	So, you know, don't fear future fishing trips because it ends up working out better sometimes.
	All right.
	I'm good.
	I'm good for the next seven weeks, man.
	You can count on me for three interviews a day, four interviews a week, not day.
	Whatever, man.
	We just want to bring it to the people.
	Okay.
	All right.
	All right.
	Well, then we'll wrap up today's episode.
	Our sponsor today is the Satellite Phone Store, the website BeReady123.com, spelled just like it sounds, BeReady123.com.
	And speaking of off-grid power, check out their solar generators and the different kits they have available, including they have, of course, satellite phones and satellite communicators called Bivvy Sticks, where you can send and receive text messages from any phone.
	You can send them to any phone number.
	But you don't need cell towers to work.
	It actually goes via satellite.
	So it's pretty cool tech.
	It's decentralized in a fashion in terms of you don't need local cell towers to function.
	You don't need to use AT&T or what have you.
	So it's an option, kind of an off-grid option.
	Again, beready123.com.
	And be sure to join the email list at decentralized.tv so that you can be alerted Before we publish each episode.
	And we'll actually give you a heads up about a one-day advance notice of who we're interviewing and what that interview is about.
	So that's one way you can just stay alerted about what's coming up on this show.
	We've got a lot of great interviews already scheduled with leaders and innovators of multiple projects, including some privacy coin projects as well.
	So it's going to be great.
	So thank you, Todd, for joining me today.
	It was a great conversation.
	What are your final thoughts, Todd, for the show today?
	Well, this was great yet again.
	It's always a joy for me to just riff with you, Mike.
	I do want to let everybody know that if you do want to send in any questions or suggestions, you can certainly find me almost full-time on Telegram at t.me forward slash epicprivatepay.com.
	Come and join that community, and a growing community, by the way.
	And that's where you can learn, and we will point you in the right direction.
	But mostly, it's where we want to engage with you.
	And just if you have any questions, that's a direct way to do it.
	And that channel, it's about more than just Epic Cash, just to let people know.
	It's about the show.
	Yes, it's not actually about Epic Cash.
	It is about epic as in an adjective, private money.
	Right.
	It's all about private money.
	This is about private money.
	If you're with Monero, if you're with Thero, you are welcome there, please, because we honor...
	You as private money.
	Hey, even if you're with Bitcoin and you have a privacy solution that we don't yet know about, let us know because we really want to have people on the show who can teach us how to make Bitcoin more private.
	Because I've tried everything I could find and there are not any good solutions that I'm aware of yet, but I'm open to being shown something new that solves that problem.
	I just don't see it out there at the moment.
	But we'll see.
	We'll see.
	So yes.
	All right, Mike.
	Well, another great one.
	Really appreciate you, my friend.
	Yeah, you too, Todd.
	Thank you for joining me today, and we'll talk again soon on the next interview.
	And thank you all for joining us today here on Decentralized.tv.
	I'm Mike Adams, the founder of Brighteon.com, the free speech video platform that I built because I was censored by everybody.
	But they couldn't shut me up.
	And so here I am speaking the truth on Brighttown.com with this new show with my co-host Todd Pitner here.
	Decentralized.tv.
	You can repost this on other channels and platforms.
	Feel free to do so.
	Just give a link back to Decentralized.tv.
	Thank you for watching today.

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