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June 19, 2023 - Health Ranger - Mike Adams
01:02:04
Qortal co-founder Mike Winner talks cypherpunk philosophy, food, farms...
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Welcome to today's interview on Brighteon.com.
I'm Mike Adams, the founder of Brighteon.
And as you know, I am a supporter of decentralized communication, decentralized finance.
And today we have joining us a co-founder of the Cordal Project, Q-O-R-T-A-L.
We'll tell you all about it.
His name is Mike Winner, and he's an amazing person.
He's into health freedom and nutrition and also freedom in terms of money and content and publishing and so much more.
He joins us now to talk about Cordal and cryptocurrency and so much more.
Welcome, Mike Winner, to the show.
It's great to have you on.
Thanks, Mike.
Truly a pleasure to be on here with you.
I've been following your work for what seems like decades now.
So this is great.
Oh, wow.
That's an honor.
And I really enjoyed – you gave some talks and some speeches.
I've seen some of your interviews.
You speak at public events.
It's amazing.
With your partner, Jason Crow, who I interviewed previously, Jason's – Absolutely a genius.
And what you have built, not just you two, but your whole community with Cordell, I think it's a game changer.
I think it's one of the most important projects for humanity.
But let's start just right there.
What is Cordell, for those who are watching right now, and why does it matter to the future of human freedom?
Cordell is the personification of the cypherpunk world.
Manifesto, the cypherpunk dream.
For those not aware, Eric Hughes wrote that in the early 90s, along with a number of others who were sort of in this movement that saw the need to use decentralized technology to counter what was coming.
And so that was what, you know, essentially turned into the Satoshi Nakamoto white paper that is Bitcoin.
And so out of that, the Cordell founders saw the need to get back to those first principles because Bitcoin had quickly strayed away from that due to the developers and software sort of takeover of Bitcoin.
And And so essentially what Cordell is is a true personification of that as a decentralized infrastructure for an entirely new internet completely separate from the World Wide Web.
That's critical.
It's an entirely different internet that just works through peer-to-peer nodes, and it does not need the permission of even the DNS system or domain holders or ICANN or anybody else.
That's what's amazing about it.
It is truly decentralized publishing, chat, money, all of that.
What else would you add to that?
Well, and I think that's a key term, permissionless.
Of course, that's a big buzzword in DeFi and Web 3.0, but that is a core tenet to Quartal, unlike any other project I've seen, because in order to access most Web 3.0, you need permission by a centralized agency you need permission by a centralized agency to access via, like you were saying, a DNS, a domain name registrar, which actually, as Jason alluded to in your interview before on this platform, that domains are controlled by a centralized single
As Jason alluded to in your interview before on this platform, the domains are controlled by a centralized single corporation out of Silicon Valley.
Right. - Right.
That's also subject to seizure by the U.S. State Department based on nothing but allegations.
You'd think it would be at least a public trust or in the public domain, in the common space, but no, it's literally a corporation.
A lot of people in the Cordell community have really come to understand what the creation of the corporation did.
And how the corporation was instrumental in sort of the takeover of human life and of privacy and the freedom of speech.
And so the corporation is the vehicle in corporation literally corpse.
It's literally a dead entity, right?
It's the walking dead of those who worship the death, right?
right, that these death worshippers, these so-called wannabe elites that are in these round table circles like the Club of Rome and, you know, the Trilateral Commission, all these guys.
Well, you know, those are the people making these decisions, calling the shots in technology for a very long time, right?
So basically to counter that, we need to be completely opposite of anything that is corporate derived.
So this is all about open source, right?
This is all about public community-driven development, transparent while respecting privacy, right?
Because privacy, as distinguished in the cypherpunk manifesto, is not secrecy, right?
That's what they use.
They use secrecy.
Privacy is the freedom to essentially have person-to-person anonymous transactions as a means to be free.
That is our right.
It's about human dignity.
I'm sorry, Mike?
Yeah, I'm saying it's about human dignity.
You know, the dignity to be private in your affairs.
Just like...
Living in your home, you have window shades because you don't want everybody on the street looking into your house and seeing whatever it is you're doing.
It's not that you're doing anything illegal.
It's just the dignity of having the ability to pull down the shades.
Yeah, there's a reason why we don't give our email passwords away, right?
I mean, this is common sense stuff, and you cannot have a free society without privacy.
John McAfee, the great John McAfee, God rest in peace, He was always stressing this.
Very important point.
And that gentleman actually called me back in 2018 when he caught wind of the early, early cordial stuff.
Believe it or not, I got a call from John McAfee.
My hands were trembling.
I knew he was going to be calling, and I didn't believe it.
And when I saw that come in, I was like, oh my god, this is John McAfee.
I've been following him for years, Mike.
And so anyways, he was one that was always stressing that you cannot have a free society without privacy.
And that is a fundamental aspect behind Cordel.
Yeah, well, absolutely.
And so let me just show people what Cordel is.
And by the way, let me right before you and I started recording this episode, you were just telling me that there's a brand new interface for Cordel that has just been released.
So I just literally downloaded and installed the whole thing on my laptop right here within like two minutes.
I have a pretty fast connection here.
So here it is.
This is what Cordal looks like.
And there are tabs up top.
You can create new tabs to do new things.
So in one tab, I can start Qchats, which is chatting with other people.
In another tab, I can go to websites.
And these aren't...
Again, they're not regular domain name sites.
These are sites that people publish through Cordal.
And by the way, at some point, Natural News will be here.
You know, our developers are trying to understand how to code for Cordal right now.
And then also there's wallets.
Now...
Over here on the Wallets tab, and I don't mean to steal your thunder here, Mike.
If you want to walk through this, I can click and you can talk.
But I just wanted to give people a quick overview.
Well, and of course, the big thing, if you want to open a new tab, is the QApps.
Which is the huge innovation, which is what is going to make Cordal sort of like...
And you could almost look at this.
You're seeing, guys, that Cordal, this is a new operating system.
This is a truly decentralized operating system.
And with QApps, this allows developers with just basic JavaScript coding language to create fully operational applications on here that people can interact with that uses the Cordial Data Network.
So we have like a QBlog option there right now that anybody – and this is all – and I've got to stress this too.
This is free.
Yeah, it's free.
- That's right. - And you know, it's funny, I just wanted to like browse real quick.
What's the latest coin market cap?
Who's in the top 10?
'Cause I don't pay attention at all to mainstream crypto anymore.
I really don't.
I do own some BTC and Monero and that's it.
And then, of course, I own Litecoin and Pirate and stuff because we have those in our wallet in Cordal.
But I don't pay attention to mainstream crypto anymore because, quite frankly, they're doing it all wrong.
And I was looking at a project I hadn't really – I don't want to call it any names, but they're, I guess, the top competitor to Ethereum now.
I'm going through their websites, all really snazzy, but you can't do anything.
What they direct you to do is get started now.
Go buy our coin on a centralized exchange.
Go buy our coin.
For Cordal, guess what?
To start, we want you to download the software, which is free.
Get synced up like you just did, Mike, in two minutes.
And hit up the community.
People will send you coin to make your name, which is like your identity.
That does cost coin to help prevent against spamming the network and people just taking all the names because once you define your name, that's the only name ever on the blockchain.
So you own it.
You own your identity right there.
And you can create as many as you like.
It just costs court.
And then you can start playing.
You can start doing things.
You can load up your own website for free.
You can start coding an app for free.
is literally it's boundless now what you can do at no cost because of the brilliance of not only the development team but the way the consensus and the overall philosophy of Cordel is which was to be a no cost public utility which is what google should be which is what the domain system should be which is what all of basic functionality on the web is was supposed to be right it was supposed to be this like you know utilitarian utopia of public domain
but of course uh that went out the window as sir berners lee and and uh l gore created the world wide web Yeah, you know, let me chime in on this, too, because I've been investigating a lot of crypto projects.
And in fact, I'd love your comment on this.
And I've found that, you know, because I want to implement crypto on our platforms, Brighteon, as a tipping system, as an e-commerce payment option for our online stores, and also with other merchants that I know that want to incorporate that.
So I want to achieve utility for these coins.
On projects that I shall not name, is essentially a response of, oh, we're not interested in using it.
We just want people to buy it.
It's just FOMO baby all the way to the moon.
And it's like, wait a second.
You're a closed loop system.
It's just about people buying and selling the coin instead of actually using it.
I mean, I'm sorry, that's not the point here.
We're supposed to be able to use this technology.
Well, there's a reason why in a lot of my interviews I call the main cryptosphere Wall Street 2.0 because it's going back into the market dynamics of buying and selling, trading, which is buy low, sell high, screw over your neighbor to make a buck.
And how can we have a free society that is actually going to be organically driven to success and If we have a predator system like that where, you know, and this is what I know a lot of people that are day trading in crypto still, a lot of them get wrecked.
But those that don't, they're spending all day, you know, using these different tools to try to get little wins on these day trades.
For what?
What actually are you doing to help the world by doing that?
What are you providing?
Wealth in a society is what?
Is measured by what?
What's GDP in all this?
It's measured by services and goods.
Right?
If you look at any classic top 10 crypto except for Bitcoin, really, what are you looking at?
What are they actually providing service-wise?
Right now, it's NFTs and video games.
It's a bunch of nonsense.
There's really no utility involved where Cordal is going to change the game.
It's going to be the first project that actually has ever, more so than Bitcoin even, because unfortunately with Bitcoin, it was heavily manipulated and really wrecked by big money interests through centralized marketplaces.
And if you look at the rich list on Bitcoin, It is very apparent that a very small amount of people own a large, large amount of the number one crypto in the world.
And then, you know, you look at El Salvador, all these Bitcoin maximalists point to El Salvador.
Well, that's got basically, that is a statist.
What's funny, which is so weird to me, because when you're getting into crypto, you're supposed to be like an anarchist and against, you know, single state rule over people.
And you have a president there who is just arresting people, whether they're gangsters or not, without due process to bring Bitcoin in.
And they people tend to want to look away from that just because he's supporting Bitcoin.
You have a tyrant there who, whether he may be doing good things for Bitcoin, he was still doing that.
He was literally arresting people without due process of law.
So that being said, with Cordle, we have an opportunity to actually have a truly decentralized currency that is based on the transference of goods, using as a proxy for the transference of goods and services without the manipulation of a marketplace. using as a proxy for the transference of goods and Do we have a marketplace?
Yes, to be able to buy it.
But it's a decentralized marketplace that isn't really allowed.
It doesn't have the traditional sort of, well, one, it doesn't have the bots and running all those those types of scams on it and the rug pulls and all that, of course, and the pump and dumps.
But two, it doesn't allow for sell walls and a lot of things that allow for that market manipulation as of now.
And the goal here is to have true marketplace of goods and services where people are using Cordle or excuse me, using Cord to actually purchase things outside the system.
So where the definition of the value comes at, hey, to me, one quart is an hour of your work working in my garden.
Or one quart is equal a bushel of potatoes.
Or is it a bushel?
Whatever.
A pound of potatoes.
And then the market starts to figure out what that value is.
In true free market enterprise.
Which I don't know if we've ever had.
Because even with gold-backed currency, you have a lot of manipulation because you have, where's the mining of the gold?
Who's controlling the gold?
Who's clipping the gold?
You know, devaluing it that way.
You've seen historically that happen.
I am a fan of hard currency.
However, I don't know if we've ever had an actual currency that is based on specifically the supply and demand of goods and services.
And Cordell has an opportunity to do that, which is very exciting.
Well, yeah, this is why I'm interested in the project, and I've got to give a shout-out to Sayer Gee, who introduced me to Cornell.
And I know you know Sayer, and, you know, Sayer's a great researcher and providing a lot of wonderful information at GreenMedInfo.
But the history of the world is the history of governments controlling currencies and then just printing money, printing money, printing money for war, for confiscation purposes, you know, basically to make everybody poor.
While the money is losing value or giant rug pulls, which is currency collapses by governments.
Right.
Those are rug pulls before we called them rug pulls.
But this is the whole history of government.
And those are all kind of ledger systems, but they're dishonest ledgers, you could say.
They're rigged ledgers.
where we're realized yes centralized ledgers where they can just say oh and another trillion you know which look at what that's doing to the cost of groceries right now whereas in your world your portal world you have a process of minting not mining so it's not burning electricity by the way minting to create quartz so there's a limited emission of the supply of quartz but it can grow over time based on the the economy of people using them correct?
Correct.
It's a scaling, I guess, inflation rate that's all coded in.
Right?
So depending on how many users and over, actually it's over block time, excuse me, it goes down.
So right now I believe it's at three and a half quart per block.
I'd have to check on that.
And there's actually, if you go to Explorer or like Explorer, you can use the calculator and see how much quart you would be earning at the level you're at.
And we can talk about levels in a second because that's an extremely important part of the It's a completely unique consensus system built from the ground up no other blockchain uses.
And the point of this was to, once again, counter centralization that happens over time through manipulation of these other consensus systems like proof of work, which is what Bitcoin uses, which is relying upon Competing against each other to win blocks.
And basically, what that's led to, as Jason explained in the interview with him, is a race for computing power.
So that's money, whoever can afford the most computing power and get the cheapest energy, dirty energy, like what was happening in China before they outlawed it.
It's not only harmful to the environment, but also leads to centralization.
And then, of course, proof of stake, which is the darling of Web 3.0.
That just is essentially like what the banksters do, which is whoever has the most money has the most weight on the chain and decision power.
So that does help with the ecological issues, but it's a horrendous overall design for two reasons, not only for the first one I stated, but for the second one is you can't create coin with it.
You have to pre-ment all of your supply.
Ahead and then do what's called an initial coin offering, an ICO, which you probably are aware of after the 2017 boom and all the scams that came with that.
So the one thing that Cordell has going for it is we are mining in the sense that we're generating coin forever over time in the way like Bitcoin does, but it's not being generated by machines battling against each other.
It's being generated by humans proving themselves over time.
You know, I've thought about this a lot, the theory of mining versus minting and what Cordell is doing, and I'd love to hear your reaction to this.
So what I found is that a lot of projects, you know, I've been exploring a lot, And I've seen a lot of shenanigans across the crypto space.
And even projects that say they're honestly launched.
Well, by honestly launched, what it usually ends up being is that 10 million coins are in the hands of three people before anybody else hears about it.
Yeah.
Right?
You've seen that before.
Right.
So it doesn't really seem like it's honestly launched.
And...
Because, let's say, the mining algorithms, they adjust the difficulty based on how many miners are operating.
So from the very first moment one of those project launches, there can be one miner that's just gobbling up millions of coins before anybody else joins.
So that's not really a fair launch, in my opinion.
But I thought about this.
The only truly fair way...
And Cordell comes the closest to this, as far as I can tell, would be to value human life, that every living person, by being alive, earns some fixed rate of coins, like you get one coin per week by being alive.
And those coins enter the system, and that then creates the value based on how people trade products and services with each other.
But it's got to be tied to people.
Tied to people, but an important distinction is this is not like EB, what's it called?
UBI, Universal Basic Income, no.
Universal Basic Income, because I do have a problem with that philosophically.
Oh, me too.
Yeah, I believe, so what's beautiful of this is there's still sort of, you have to prove yourself and prove that you're supporting the network.
It's all about supporting the network.
That's what a decentralized network requires.
It requires full nodes running checks at all times.
Like, the more distributed, the more powerful a decentralized network gets.
So the brilliance of this is you're just proving yourself over time that you care about the network, that you're real, that you're like an actual authentic individual because you're putting the effort in to make sure your node is up and running to an internet connection as a simple computer.
And we've made it so it doesn't require anything fancy.
We have people that literally have donated old laptops given to them that couldn't afford a computer.
We have people on $100 Raspberry Pis on a solar panel out on a farm.
Running consensus.
That was the whole point, was to make it so it's not the technology.
It's just your will and desire to be involved.
Well, absolutely.
And let me clarify what I was just saying, since you just replied with that, which makes perfect sense.
I call Cordell the model of minting as proof of contribution over time.
Perfect.
That's it.
Right.
Proof of contribution over time, but by a person.
And Cordell even has efforts to make sure that one human being can't just set up 5,000 computers and mint from 5,000 computers.
You can't set up a mining warehouse or a minting warehouse and just out-mint everybody else.
This is an extremely, extremely important distinction that sets Cordal apart from everything else on the internet, if that isn't decentralized.
It is a person, like literally a human element.
So in order to mint, which is what we're talking about here, which is running consensus and getting a share of the reward, and it is a share of the reward, too.
That's an important idea.
You're not competing for a single reward like proof-of-work traditionally.
You're actually sharing in the pot, so it's collaborative in that idea.
But two, in order to get the ability to get the access to mint, you have to actually have a level five Or above, a minter validate you and send you a minting key, which means when this is what, you know, we explained to Level 5 and above, and Level 5, that you've taken your time to get there.
Like you put a lot of time to be level five, so you don't want to just like you have a lot of respect and love for the network.
You're invested in Cordal over time, so you really care.
So you want to just give it to some idiot, you know, some scammer or something.
So you literally want to validate that person, make sure they're real, make sure that they're not minting yet, interview them, right?
And all that.
And obviously there's ways to get around this, but it is a human element that's added and I think this is getting to become very obviously needed as we're seeing.
Not that I believe AI is conscious or has the ability to take over anything as of now, but we are seeing the issues with AI coming into the World Wide Web right now.
This is nothing new.
AI's been involved with the World Wide Web for over a decade, and now we're looking at about 89% to 90% bots on the World Wide Web for most of the traffic.
Yeah, even in the crypto space, bot trading.
Bot trading.
And bot volume liquidity bots that are just creating artificial liquidity.
We've seen that.
I'm a huge fan of this concept.
My friend James Tunney brought it to my mind a few weeks back, who's an amazing thinker and philosopher, The Techno-Rebel.
And this was proposed by Alvin Toffler in, I believe, the early 70s, late 60s.
And Orson Welles even did a documentary kind of based on his book, The Third Wave.
And this idea was, in order for us to counter the inevitable rise of AI and the technological machine, We, as human consciousness, must embrace the technology ourselves and use our own sort of art form to manage it.
So, in other words, it's not about being a Luddite, right?
It's not about going – because there is a movement.
There is a sort of sensibility in the health freedom space, Mike, and you probably hear this all the time.
like a distrust of technology and kind of we just need to leave it all behind and go back to their farm and the homestead and put our heads in the sand.
You do that, and soon that sand will be blown away from your head, and there will be a boot stomping on it for the rest of eternity.
So I am a huge fan of this concept of the techno rebel, which, like the cypherpunks, is to use the technology for the greater good of humankind through these sort of means, right?
So permissionless, open source, transparent, using the encryption for our own good and all that, and embracing the human side of technology so that we can counter sort of this AI takeover that the WEF is so gleeful about.
Yeah, yeah.
Well said.
And I'm glad you mentioned this about the cypherpunk ideology.
I never in my life, I never consider myself to be a cypherpunk.
And then it turns out in 2023, I look at my values and the cypherpunk manifesto values, and they're almost identical in terms of using technology to achieve privacy, to achieve decentralization, to be peaceful but techno-competent rebels against to be peaceful but techno-competent rebels against the system of oppression and censorship.
That's the cypherpunk mentality, as I understand it anyway.
Yeah, and there's also this idea of solar punk, which is kind of cool because personally, I'm like a farming surfer.
That's like what I do.
I love to surf and I love to farm, but I love technology too.
And I see a great need for the use of proper technology in our lives.
I do believe it can improve our lives as long as we're doing it the right way.
And the solar punk ethos is where we kind of embrace both.
So the idea of having the right type of technology out on your farm that is decentralized and very much like Cordell.
So we have different groups out there who want to partner and use Cordell to, for instance, put nodes in these cool concrete homes that you can pop up in one day out in the middle of nowhere.
We have, like I said, farmers running nodes on solar panels and Raspberry Pis to be able to have this sort of parallel system set up for commerce so that they can sell their goods without the fear of the FDA or the USDA trying to come down on them.
right?
So this is an important, very much a parallel system we're creating out of respect of Mother Nature, and on that note too, The biggest thing we'll be facing in terms of stopping portal is the network connectivity itself, which is the ISPs.
And the Internet service providers, we still are reliant upon because they own all the major lines, right, of communication, all the pipelines that go under the oceans and everything.
But there are ways we are being very innovative about that in terms of mesh networking and even creating new means of wireless that's healthy, using like Rife-type technologies potentially and stuff like that.
However, on just a pure market dynamic, a pure economics, you are probably – you are very savvy in following what's going on with mainstream economics and financial system.
It's teetering.
It's teetering on collapse because of everything they did with COVID and the fact that the banking system was allowed to do their transactions.
Why am I blanking on it?
Where they print 10 times as much as they bring in.
The fractional reserve banking now is allowed to be at 99%.
Since 2020, so there's no reserves.
We're having bank runs.
We're seeing the collapse of regional banks so they can solidify that into the top four or five banks.
We're seeing the push to mainstream centralized cryptocurrency that they're planning to roll out.
And there's a lot of people that are, frankly, over it.
And there seems to be a race between them trying to unleash this new tyrannical economic plan versus the collapse.
And if Cordell does our job right, we can just buy it all up, buy up all the infrastructure, right?
Buy up those lines that are underneath the Atlantic Ocean and literally have a new public utility that is in a whole new economy as the sort of old system crumbles.
Yeah, you mentioned mesh networks.
You covered a lot there, and I'm right on board with you there.
I think that the tech of communications is going to move into, frankly, a quantum entanglement.
everybody will have a bucket of protons with certain spin, and you'll have a bucket of protons over there that were previously entangled, and you will have instantaneous bandwidth crossing time and space, apparently violating the laws of physics, but actually moving faster than the speed of light.
This has already been demonstrated in universities in America, but imagine the day when you don't need to broadcast on the electromagnetic spectrum because you have quantum entanglement.
Then you can have a mesh network running anywhere, like even on the moon, even on Mars or wherever, anywhere that instantly communicates with no latency to anybody else, and imagine what's possible under those circumstances.
It's just a choice for humanity.
Does humanity choose to be free and decentralized, or does humanity choose to bow down to their overlords, their Terminator overlords, and become slaves to a system of centralized control?
That's the choice that humanity faces.
Yeah, and how important is privacy and encryption in an anonymous network when we're talking about something like quantum entanglement?
I mean, that is frightening if you think about that being centralized and controlled in some panopticon where it's instantaneous like that.
So it's more important than ever that we set up these systems and get off the centralized systems to ensure our freedoms are intact.
And also, of course, when it comes to the virtual landscape, they're trying to imprison everybody in.
So, yeah, Cordal is, for me, the number one and most important solution of the world right now.
We need it more than anything.
That's why I've thrown everything that I have into it.
You know, to be noted, there's no corporation behind it.
I've never made a cent off Cord or selling Cord or being involved with Cordal.
It's all a labor of love for my kids.
We're both running Nodes and Minting, by the way.
For me, without Quartal, I feel like I would be a little bit more...
I don't know, not desperate, but I would be spinning a little bit, wondering what we're going to do.
But knowing that Quartal exists...
I must say I feel pretty good about the future because it just goes to prove that human ingenuity and honesty and the ability for communities to work together will always be able to prevail over evil.
Let me ask you a question about that very point and also the SEC's attack on the crypto space.
But let me start on your website just again for people who want to download this.
It's Cordal, Q-O-R-T-A-L. It's just like the word portal, but instead of a P, it's a Q. So Cordal.org, and then you can download the software.
Again, I just did that.
And then after you're running Quartal, then it's going to look like this.
Now, I just installed this, and here's my wallet address for receiving Quartz in this particular wallet.
And there's a Bitcoin address, there's a Litecoin address, Dogecoin, and so on.
Keep in mind, if you do have a name that's registered, a nice little benefit of portal, just as far as user-friendliness, is you can just send right to that name.
Oh, okay.
Right, good point.
Yeah, so no more of this having to memorize and copy and paste long public addresses.
Like, you can just...
How great is that?
Kind of like Venmo, right?
Just Venmo me this while this is like Cort to Mike Winter.
And I'm the only Mike Winter.
So, you know, I mean, that's just such a nice little innovation for adoption.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
But I just want to point out that Cort is kind of the coin of the realm of Cordal.
And it's used to do things, like you said, to purchase a name.
And yet...
I don't think the court is traded on any centralized exchange like Binance.
Instead, people swap.
We can't stop anybody from doing this.
So a portal community member did get it on some tiny exchanges that are in Asia or somewhere that aren't even accessible.
But no, we're not.
So if you go try to find us on Bitfinex or Binance, you are not going to find court.
And that was intentional.
So instead, people transfer, for example, Litecoin into their wallet, into their Quartal wallet, and then they can trade Litecoin for Quartz and get Quartz and use that for various things on the network.
But what I love about what you're doing with Quartal is it's not focused on just the coin.
It's focused on the applications.
And the websites and the QChat and all these other things.
So it's about the utility of it, not just, oh, everybody buy the coin and that's the whole story.
Because that's kind of boring, actually.
Well, and what are you doing?
What are you doing, how you're evaluating?
You're just going back to fiat eventually, right?
And you're just...
You know, so it's like, are you really changing anything?
You're just playing with these tokens that are a proxy of fiat still.
And then you've got the, you know, the number three or four coin in coin market cap is Tether.
And that's like the ultimate scam because that's how they do the pump and dumps.
They pump and then they go over to Tether.
They dump so they don't lose and they go back in.
Mark my words right now on this interview.
When Tether collapses, all of mainstream crypto is going to, including BTC, and it's not far away from happening.
Oh, tell us more about that because, yeah, I've often believed that Tether was sort of counterfeiting coin that isn't fully backed by the dollars they claim.
It's centralized.
It's very centralized.
The dollars aren't there.
They're using different derivatives and different instruments to supposedly – and like connecting it to real estate and all these funny things to supposedly back that crypto.
And then they have a direct connection to Bitfinex, I mean, they're the same company basically, And so they're doing all sorts of, you know, really funny stuff behind the scenes with that, using that centralized exchange.
They're essentially just printing money out of thin air.
And when that goes down, I mean, there is so much value held in that that is directly linked and tethered to Bitcoin itself.
It's going to be absolutely frightening.
It's going to be devastation.
Devastation in the markets.
And it will happen.
I believe that is actually going to be the rug pull to actually move over into the CBDCs.
Okay, wow.
So that rug pull, which would be historic, it could...
It could devastate the value of Bitcoin if, indeed, if a lot of Bitcoin has been purchased by Tether that has been created, let's say, dishonestly or in a rigged way, which I believe to be the case.
And, you know, you've got to ask Tether, where are your audits, your third-party audits, right?
Where's that?
Because I'm not saying that.
They're a joke.
They're a total joke.
If you look at, there's a great YouTuber, CoffeeZilla, who a lot of people in the crypto space hate, but it's funny because Cordal, we're such like the outliers of the, we're not even, we don't even call ourselves a crypto project.
We are literally a decentralized infrastructure project.
We don't go to crypto conferences.
We've never been in that entire sort of weird scene, that whole cryptosphere thing.
I have been invited to go speak at Anarcho Poco next year, so I may go do that.
But we mostly have presented at like Freedom Festivals and things like Music in Sky, which we can talk about.
Jason and I did an amazing stage talk two years ago at our 4th July Music in Sky gathering.
Yeah, tell us about that.
That's your event, isn't it?
Yes, so in 2020 when Gruesome Newsome tried to tell us we weren't allowed to gather and celebrate life and dance and enjoy art, myself being an underground DJ and festival event producer for many years,
I won't say how long, it'll age myself, and my partners decided to go back to our roots and And throw an underground festival, camp out in Joshua Tree, California, and have no regulations, no follow those silly rules, no six feet apart.
We couldn't get any major acts booked because all the agencies wanted us to follow all these COVID nonsense rules.
So we just booked our friends and we booked amazing speakers to talk about sovereignty and common law and cordial and germ theory and all these things.
And which was important, the whole germ theory aspect, because it just really just crushes the whole narrative around viruses.
So people were coming and were in no fear, no masks, hugging, you know, dancing.
No one got sick.
It was amazing.
And it's launched Music and Sky.
We're on our fifth event this summer, August 18th through the 21st.
out.
It's like a sovereign spa experience, we call it.
So it's a great networking event.
And really, we come to devise more parallel solutions while enjoying each other's time and presence.
And it's become just a beautiful celebration of life.
It's called musicandsky.com.
If you're interested in coming and hanging out with fellow awake and very health focused people.
So there's no beer garden at this.
There's not like drunken folks everywhere.
I mean, you can do whatever.
It's not Burning Man.
It's not Burning Man.
However, there are people that go there that left Burning Man because it went so leftist.
So two of my Partners were old school burners, and they have gotten so tired of the leftist propaganda that's taken over Burning Man, and we understand sovereignty, and we understand the right for freedom and for people to choose what they want to do with their lives, and also it's very health-focused.
So yeah, it's like a lot of yoga and breath work, and we had Larkin Rose speak at it last year, if you know him.
I mean, he's a voluntarist, like anarchist.
And we have like folks that are talking about things like, I mean, you mentioned it, like the cosmos and the importance of, I don't know, I mean, everything.
So it's really cool.
Go check out Music and Sky.
We've got Zuby performing this year, if you know him.
He's a huge performer in the freedom space.
Five times August.
So all the musicians that play are freedom focused.
We only book people that really get it.
So it's really special.
All right.
That's amazing.
And is that also taking place in California?
Yeah, we do it in California because that's where we're from and we're not going to leave.
We're going to fight for where we live and what we love.
I believe California is the central battleground for freedom.
I believe there's a reason why they've targeted it for decades.
I believe it's a place where they've really been perfecting voter fraud for decades as well because mostly California is quote-unquote red.
And most people believe it's like this total leftist nightmare place, but that's really only in the main pockets of LA, San Francisco, Humboldt.
All the rest of California is freedom-loving folks, very agrarian, very common sense people.
So anyways, yeah, we're doing it in Cuyama Valley, which is east of Santa Barbara in this beautiful remote location.
We always go remote.
It's always off-grid.
People aren't on their phones.
It's very focused on nature and being present with each other.
It's all farm-to-table, food, family meals.
Really special, and we keep it small.
This one maxes out at 350 people, four-day camp out.
Wow.
Yeah.
All right.
All right.
Very cool.
And isn't that funny, too, by the way, that phrase, farm-to-table?
That used to just be called food, and now it's a whole special thing.
Oh, it came from a farm to the table?
Wow.
You mean it wasn't a factory?
But let's shift gears here in the few minutes we have remaining.
Let me ask you a couple of questions.
Do you think that Gary Gensler and the SEC will have success in their attempt to really, I think, bring down most crypto in America?
Yeah.
I actually do because those crypto companies have contracted.
They are corporations.
They are a lot of times with, I mean, not that I agree with the Security Exchange Commission, what they, you know, what they're doing and what they define securities as and all that.
But these companies have decided to contract.
As corporations in the ecosystem and they're not following the rules.
So I do believe they're open to that sort of, you know, discretion of the SEC. Not saying I agree with the SEC, what they've done in the past.
What was the project that said that North Korea was using?
Blanking out that they, what's Tornado Cash was it?
Oh yeah, that was a mixer I think.
Yeah, it was a mixer because – and once again, this goes back to the right for privacy and to have anonymous transactions, and I think they did a huge disservice to humanity by doing that.
So they obviously don't have – We know the SEC and all these agencies aren't performing their duties for the good of the citizens of the United States.
That's for sure.
But that being said, I think the whole main tenets of the original cypherpunks, once again, was to be truly decentralized, do this in a way that isn't corporatized.
And what have we seen with most of crypto?
They've gone the Silicon Valley route.
They're now basically playing in their game.
Quartal is not corporate.
We don't have any CEO. We have no corporation.
We have no patents.
We have no trademarks.
We are in the ethers.
We are in the private.
We have never contracted with any beast system.
This is really high-level stuff to understand.
Most of the Quartal developers have taken classes to understand their rights as a living man and woman versus a citizen.
This kind of gets deep into sort of sovereignty and law versus legal, public versus private, maritime, all that stuff.
So, I think, yeah, these are really important concepts that people need to wake up to, to protect our rights as living men and women in the private.
And Quartal is positioned to stay out of all of that stuff.
But I agree.
Even Bitcoin has major corporations doing the commits to their code base.
Yeah, true.
There's a lot of centralization in Bitcoin.
Yeah, it is what it is.
Kind of a corollary question then.
You and I have both seen a lot of crypto projects implode.
And one of the things that I've noticed is that crypto, for whatever reason, sometimes brings out the worst shadow self.
Like the dark side of individuals gets amplified when there are millions of coins at stake.
And I've seen it myself.
I know you've seen it.
What To what do you attribute this?
I mean, how come sometimes you can take like 10 normal, polite people and then they launch a crypto project and they turn into ravenous demons stabbing each other to death?
Like, what's going on?
Well, the Keynesians would want to say that's our nature, that we're all wolves in sheep's clothing.
I don't agree with that.
I believe human nature is typically loving and selfless.
However, we got to remember that the entire ecosystem of the Internet from ARPANET through the World Wide Web was developed by these sort of roundtable groups to foment discord, to use the Hegelian dialectic to create conflict. to use the Hegelian dialectic to create conflict.
And most of these crypto companies are coming up through those same channels through Silicon Valley.
Most of you look, they've come from mainstream academia or through Silicon Valley tech startups sort of culture.
And that culture breeds this sentimentality, this sort of greed and avarice where the true cypherpunk is much more pure in a sense that we see the greater picture we're in.
We're more like philosophers and futurists where we see what the big stakes are.
There's a lot of normies in crypto.
We saw that with COVID. I used to follow a lot of YouTuber crypto people, and when they were buying into the masks and all that and the jabs, I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, when did crypto get so normie?
Right?
I think that's just all part of that aesthetic, the culture, right?
It's this normie sort of mainstream culture that it's very materialistic.
It's very much focused on Lambos and going to the moon, and of course you're going to have that Those kind of blow-ups, because they're not in it for the right reason.
Yeah, every time I hear somebody talk about how they want to buy a Lambo, it's just such a turn-off.
I'm like, you know, the future of the human race is at stake here.
And all you care about is some damn fancy car.
I mean, talk about being shallow and short-sighted.
It's even offensive to me to hear people talk about...
How they just want to make money and teach other people how to make money.
I'm like, wait a second.
Good luck with that Lambo when the pitchfork people are coming for food.
It's like, what's the Lambo going to do for you, right?
Also, when the global supply chain collapses because it doesn't function, your Lambo has 15,000 parts that you can't get.
I just saw some ad for the new Audi spec car.
It turns into a truck and the steering wheel comes out of nowhere.
I'm like, that's all going to break in five seconds.
I said in the comments, I'll take a 1965 Mustang, please.
That's my future.
Yeah, or how about just an ultra-reliable Toyota?
Yeah, 1982 Toyota Land Cruiser or whatever.
Yeah, I mean, there's stuff that works.
But there are a lot of shallow people.
I guess it's just part of human nature, but there are also visionaries.
And I would count you and Jason Crow as among them.
So with that in mind, as we wrap up this interview, what's the big picture thought that you want to leave our audience with here about Cordell and where you're taking this project?
Yeah, I would say the big picture is developing a whole new model for us to be able to transact, communicate, interact that is completely private, that is off the, basically the controlling system that allows us to be free and to transact in ways that has never been done before so that we can live in peace and harmony in a neutral way, right?
Just wave the white flag of neutrality and leave us alone.
That's the picture where we can have peaceful communities, where we can have thriving abundance based upon our own effort and what we want to do in our life so we can develop whole new systems where people can follow their dreams and actually have a true vocation where we can have thriving abundance based upon our own effort and what we want to do in our life so we can develop whole new systems where people can follow their dreams and actually have a true vocation and not work a nine to five where we can get back to being human again and get back to
there.
Well, I love your vision for that, but I think our audience is begging me to reply to that and say, but don't forget...
There are demonic, destructive forces that are trying to stop you from doing what you just described, right?
That they want to take your land.
They want to force you to pay property tax.
They want to exploit and own your children and do who knows what to them.
They don't want you to have secrets or privacy or honest money of any kind.
They will attack your monetary system if they can't control it.
They will attack your food if they can't control it.
You try to raise backyard chickens.
They'll try to shut you down.
You try to do non-GMO crops.
They'll make sure you can't compete.
You know, I'm not trying to be a pessimist, but just a realist.
I have a great reply to this, too.
One, at Kordo, we're not like utopian sort of idealists.
We're very practical.
We also understand that a lot of those systems are thriving because we've empowered them.
True.
Through either our own ignorance or contracting with them.
So when we move to the private, when we stop contracting with them, when we stop using their infrastructure, their systems that allow them to track us, to control us, we can start Taking their power away, right?
So for me, it's not so much about the fight.
It's more about the knowledge and understanding of who we are and the power we truly have and stop empowering them.
And when we stop empowering them, then all that goes away.
I truly believe that.
I believe we live in a consensus world where a free will world where essentially we decide what we want in our lives.
So for instance, let's talk about the land thing.
Right?
Like stealing our property.
Well, there's things called land patents that have been proven to work.
There's a loyal rights, which we have.
Most people don't know about this because you can't find anything on the internet.
Now, I've done podcasts on this and I've shared information workshops on this.
With Cordell, we can get that out to the world so it's not censored and hidden.
There's always a solution because that's how this world works.
We live in a divine realm.
Right?
The creator has given us the right to choose.
It's just that most people, as you said, choose slavery.
So when we choose freedom and we create the mechanisms to have freedom, it starts to change pretty quickly.
We start disempowering the evil.
Because there will always be evil in the world.
Evil is required for us to grow.
I believe that too.
We're never going to just live in some utopia, right?
However...
I believe that we can choose better right now and we can take baby steps right away to start moving towards that vision I have.
And I do believe it's going to be local.
It's going to be about going smaller in terms of our governance.
And we can all do that with the groups and the way the voting over time and all that works in Cordell.
It will allow us to literally have local governance, which is bottom up.
And all that stuff built right in using Cordal as a tool.
But of course, all of that's there.
And another project I'm involved with, which we didn't really talk about, the end of COVID, that we have a lot of concerns about with censorship.
We put that on Cordal, it'll live there forever.
And that is jaw-dropping truth in the end of COVID that will end pandemics forever so we don't fall for it again.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
A lot of people are waking up about all of that, and I think that, I mean, I really appreciate your point of view on all of this, the big picture point of view, why this matters for the future of human civilization, and I agree with you.
It's got to become local, self-reliant as much as possible, and not just one person, I mean local communities, right?
You have strength in local communities, right?
You are trading food and seeds and expertise and services using forms of digital money that are private.
And this is the system of how I think it's going to work in the future.
Local, I will say this, Mike, sorry to interrupt, but this is so important because I believe this is how they've got the back-to-land movement and stopped these type of surging movements in the past.
Local, but not isolated.
Exactly.
Right.
Local, but interconnected across the world.
Well said.
Exactly.
So, Mike, this has been a fascinating discussion, and I know we could take it in a hundred different directions.
We just scratched the surface.
Let's just wrap this up in a couple of simple ways, though.
Number one, for people who want to participate and join Cordal, it's free to download.
It's at cordal.org.
I have it on my screen.
Download the Cordal UI right here, install it, and it'll ask you to install the node, and boom, you're up and running and you can start benefiting from this.
In addition to that, Mike, how can people stay tuned to your interviews and lectures and Jason's and so on?
How do they stay informed?
Yeah, well, on the Cordal website, we do post our interviews on there.
You can, of course, join Cordal Discord and the Cordal Telegram.
All those links are on the website.
You can follow me.
I'm on Instagram at DJMikeWinner.
I have my link tree there with all of my links.
I'm heavily involved in HealthFreedom.com.
I'm going out and speaking at different events and involved in doing podcasts and all of that with Sayer G and folks like that.
So you can just follow me at Instagram.com forward slash DJ Mike Winter or Linktree forward slash I think it's Mike Winter.
You'll see the link there on Instagram.
And yeah, musicandsky.com.
Please go check that out.
And of course, the end of COVID is a massive thing I've been involved with.
With Alex Zek from The Way Forward.
There's like 89 presenters.
It's like 90 plus sessions.
It's free for 21 days.
For me, that is so important for us because you know we already have Billy Gates talking about 2025 and their next pandemic rollout.
So this is what they do, right?
As the awakening starts to get momentum, they drop some sort of psyop.
And it's going to be either climate, back to another fake virus thing, or some sort of shutting down the internet.
So Cordell is going to play a massive role in just keeping the ball rolling, keeping us connected as they try to keep the warfare going.
And we can counter that by just staying human, staying connected, staying in peace, and understanding our rights and what our power is.
And really, it'll quickly diminish as we get massive consensus and momentum on our side as the great awakening continues.
Yeah, we the people can simply choose to be free.
All the options exist in front of us, and now the technology exists with Cordell and other projects.
And Mother Nature and God provides the food, the nutrients, the rain, the sunshine that we need.
I mean, we literally have everything we need.
If we end up as slaves, it's only because humans gave up, rather than just choosing to express your true potential.
In the American experiment, It's still vital and alive.
I truly believe that's why I'm here, and I'm even in California still.
We are central.
We are the most important place in the world for turning it all around.
Just because there are corporate interests and big government interests going out and doing all these terrible things, creating empire, Doesn't mean the typical American patriot, you know, freedom-loving person backs that or supports that.
So if you're watching this from another place in the world, understand, like, we're at the tip of the spear for a reason.
We have the philosophical infrastructure and ground to really push freedom throughout the entire world.
And I'm excited to be part of that.
And I can't wait to see where this all goes.
Yeah.
Me too.
Well, thank you, Mike Winter.
It's a pleasure speaking with you.
I love your ideas and philosophies and your health freedom emphasis in food and farming, all of that.
Isn't it interesting how it all now, it's the same synergistic complementary system now?
You know, tech for freedom, but food for reality.
Yeah, and I'm having a lot of fun, man.
Like I said, I'm like embracing the surfer-farmer aesthetic.
I live up in the mountains on the border of California and Oregon.
I left out, I took my family and we left LA in 2016.
I was like feeling I gotta get out of here.
I left Hollywood, I was working in the industry there.
And now have my shoes off and live on a river and on a homestead and just loving life, man.
So that's the thing, it's like, if you really embrace this lifestyle and go for it, it's a lot of fun and you'll get a lot of support.
And a lot of people in the quarter community are entrepreneurs and have left the system and are making their way out on their own and have a great support community behind them.
Just when you download the software, jump into QChat and just start chatting with folks.
And if you love freedom, you will find your crowd there.
Excellent.
Okay, well said.
Thank you, Mike.
We'll do this again, and I look forward to that.
And everybody, check out Cordell, cordell.org.
And I'm running it, and look for some announcements from us, too, about publishing on Cordell.
So thank you, Mike.
Have a great day.
You too.
All right.
We'll talk again soon.
And thank you for watching.
Feel free to share this video on other platforms, and you can repost it on your channel if you wish.
I'm Mike Adams, the founder of Brighteon.com, now deeply embracing decentralized technology for finance and apps, dApps, and so much more because I am convinced this is the pathway, this is the tool set for human freedom.
We are embracing it and applying it here as quickly as we can.
So thank you for watching.
Thank you for all your support.
Take care.
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