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Oct. 14, 2022 - Health Ranger - Mike Adams
48:08
Jonathan Rawles of SurvivalRealty.com interviewed by Mike Adams about off-grid retreats...
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Welcome, folks, to this fascinating interview.
You're going to love this one.
This is a first-time guest joining us.
He's the co-founder of SurvivalRealty.com, which is an online realty website that specializes in listing survival, retreat, and off-grid type of properties.
And, of course, I'm Mike Adams, the founder of Brighteon.com, where we have these kinds of uncensored conversations.
And we're joined now by Jonathan Rawls, who, again, the co-founder.
Hi, Jonathan.
Yeah, thanks for joining me.
Absolutely.
Glad to be here and appreciate the work you've done with Natural News and stuff in the past.
And yeah, glad to have this conversation.
Well, that's great.
I'm glad you're familiar with our work.
And then, you know, our audience is very well informed.
So we don't have to start from the basics like, why would I want to leave the city ever?
You know, things like that.
But just let me, to finish introducing you, you're the co-author of Survival Retreat and Relocation.
That's a book people can get anywhere.
Yep.
Yeah, we're available on Amazon or at Survival Realty.
Okay.
Okay, great.
And do you want to mention publicly your relationship with who your father is?
Sure, no problem.
Yep.
My father is James Wesley Rawls, who blogs at survivalblog.com, has written Patriots and a number of other books.
And obviously, he's my inspiration and mentor in all of this.
Well, that is awesome.
And just for the record, I did not even know that you were related to him when we invited you.
I actually told my staff, I said, look, go out and find some survival real estate websites that are dominant in the industry, because I want to have a conversation about this.
So thank you for coming on.
It's just great that your father is also this amazing person that we're all a fan of, too.
Anyway, okay.
That said, so give us the quick overview of survivalrealty.com, what the site's all about.
Yeah, sounds good.
So yeah, we got started basically talking with people who were so early 2000s who were looking to relocate largely out of the big city into rural areas, say the Inland Northwest, Appalachia, into the Southwest.
Yeah.
And a lot of those people were looking for property that was off-grid.
They wanted to be self-sufficient.
And at least at that time, particularly, it was something that came across as very surprising to the real estate agents they were talking to.
They were being looked at as very odd, strange.
What they were looking for wasn't understood.
So we saw the opportunity to really help out there.
And along with that, a lot of people who had perhaps done homesteading for quite a few years and were ready to move on for one reason or another and were trying to sell property, especially post-real estate crash, that was really difficult.
So it was really an opportunity for us to connect those two groups of people and make some really good connections there and help a lot of people either find their retreat property or move on to that next step of life they needed to.
Cool.
Tell me about trends.
Are you seeing a steady uptick in interest or has it plateaued?
Yeah, I would say it has plateaued.
Given the current uptick in interest rates and everything else going on, the economic downturn we're in the midst of, a lot of people are definitely hunkering down.
But overall, in terms of our overall interest and search volume, obviously all the events of 2020 and onwards, drove a lot of people to realize that where they were was not sustainable from a political, cultural, survival standpoint.
All of those things played into that.
And so, yeah, we've continued to see a lot of interest in people.
Making that move from a, like you said, a multi-million person city where when things get hard, they get really hard really fast.
And we all saw small pieces of that, but realized there could be a lot more that happens.
So it really is a continued interest that we're seeing.
The real challenge we're seeing right now, of course, is affordability.
With interest rates taking off, it's becoming very challenging.
Well, I'm seeing mortgage rates have just hit, I think, 6.92% on average.
So we're in the 7% range, which is not horrible historically, but in recent memory...
Versus the last 20 years, yeah.
And when you see how inflated housing prices have been over the last few years, when you see 50% increases in property prices over a couple of years, and then you see the cost of mortgages increasing another 50% or more, that's making affordability really struggle.
Well, cash buyers.
I know you don't know every data point of the buyers or anything, but I'm sure you get a sense of this.
Are there still quite a few cash buyers out there?
No, there definitely are.
And there's definitely people that are liquidating assets they might have, particularly on the coast, New York, California, Washington State, and are selling off what they've got and they're willing to Pick up something perhaps even more modest on a smaller acreage where they can get a more human scale of life.
So we do see that.
But overall, the market has definitely slowed down because of people's hesitation as to whether or not they will both be able to sell their property and whether their money will go as far as they need it to.
Sure.
Now, roughly, how many properties are you listing on your website at any given time?
At any given time, we're very much a niche site.
So we're running 100 to 200 properties at a time nationwide, usually a few international properties as well with a pretty good distribution.
From small bare land acreage that someone might want to go put a very simple homestead cabin on, you know, in the under $100,000 even.
And then, of course, we've got the multi-million dollar properties that have everything ready to go.
All you have to do is have a couple million dollars to drop on it.
Right, right.
I'm on your website right now as we're doing this interview.
I see one that starts from $6 million.
It's in Williamsburg, Kentucky.
And I would imagine that's a lot of acreage, probably.
Yeah, absolutely.
And it says it's defensible.
That's a good starting point.
Yeah, absolutely.
And especially, of course, if you're going to be in a rural area, a lot of that means you've got to really think through what that means because you're going to have to be providing your own power, your own water, your own security even, just because emergency services are a lot further away.
Yeah, absolutely.
I... Just from my background, I lived in Ecuador for a couple of years, in rural Ecuador, and then I live in rural Central Texas right now.
So I'm very familiar with, especially when I was in South America, not having access to things.
You've got to make it yourself in many cases.
But not everybody's familiar with that.
In fact, I'd like to ask you, some people think that city folks, let's say, that's my opinion, not yours, but certain city folks think, oh, I'm just going to buy a seed kit and I'm going to get a rural property and I'm all good.
And they're not mentally ready for what it means.
Right.
Yeah, absolutely.
So that's something that's very widespread.
You drive through any rural area anywhere in the U.S., you'll see a lot of houses sitting on 5 or 10 acres.
And really, all you're seeing there is a suburban subdivision.
It's just the lops are a lot bigger.
So really, yeah, you're outside the city, but you're not really living a life that's different.
And you're not necessarily more resilient just on the basis of having acreage or being removed from the city.
Obviously, you might be avoiding some of the drama that might be going down in the city if things are bad.
But the real work of building resiliency is something that goes way beyond just relocation, getting to the right location, and really goes into building your lifestyle in a way that's resilient for a challenging world.
Good point.
So I think that means that when people are searching for retreat properties here, they need to also look at the county, the politics of the county, who's the sheriff, what's the city council like nearby, all that stuff, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
One thing that's obviously been up in my mind recently, if you're following the news with ATF and new regulations they're putting out where they're, you know, About to declare millions of people to be in possession of contraband if they don't register it.
Oh yeah, the arm braces, yes.
Yes, exactly.
And yeah, that's where, you know, having a good county sheriff might become extremely valuable in the next couple of years.
And likewise, having a community that's actually there to rally around you and stand up to federal overreach, that matters.
Yes.
Yeah, well, and so at the state level, because, you know, I live in Texas, so we see the Texas Attorney General, Paxton, is doing a lot of that, sort of threatening to nullify federal overreach.
But also at the county level, because, you know, that's where the sheriffs count.
Just as you were saying, yeah, your thoughts?
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think it's important to realize that, you know, Nearly any county you're going to go to, even if it's a red state, a red county, you're still dealing with all the typical bureaucracy and corruption that we have anywhere.
So it's not to say there isn't a perfect state or perfect county.
You've got rhinos and busybody bureaucrats and people that are not willing to actually stand up.
So even looking at, say, North Idaho, for example, it was a real mix when they were doing mask mandates.
What counties actually stood up against them and which counties went along with it, just because that was the accepted science at the time.
And we had a lot of local politicians who weren't...
We went along with what the experts told them, and we're not truly willing to make a stand and stand up on behalf of their constituents.
I think we've had a couple of midterm elections, general elections.
I think we've seen some positive changes there.
I'm very hopeful that we'll continue to see positive changes there.
Yeah, absolutely.
Now, getting back to your website.
Ken, I'm curious, what makes a property sort of qualify for your site?
So do you reject some properties?
Absolutely.
No, we do.
We've got pretty general guidelines, but in general, what we're looking for is a property on at least a couple of acres with the mindset that people are going to want some space to be able to do some gardening, raise some small livestock, and You might not be looking to start a ranch, but just basic food, basic homestead-level food production just to supplement what might be storage food.
Obviously, you're still going to be Buying or trading with others, absolute self-sufficiency is a very high goal, and it's only a very small subset of people that are really going to be pursuing that goal.
But really having some greater resilience on your own property, so a couple of acres.
Looking for not everything being off-grid.
Simply because going fully off-grid is a large undertaking in itself.
There's a lot of people that do great work there.
But again, it's not for everyone.
But one really critical one is having a reliable source of water.
That's the biggest issue when it comes to living in the city as well.
If the water goes out, and of course the lights go out, you're really out of luck.
Yeah, no kidding.
When it comes down to it, if you look at big-scale disruptions throughout history...
Castles under siege.
Having a good source of water is absolutely critical.
So having, at the very minimum, a good well on your property.
If you've got a stream, if you've got a pond, if you've got spring water, that's fantastic.
But that's something that should absolutely be near the top of your list.
Yeah, completely agree.
And you could do rainwater catchment, but only in certain areas.
Yeah, absolutely.
And obviously in the Pacific Northwest, you could probably do that.
But of course, that's also an area with good wells in general.
If you're going to be in the Southwest, that's something you really need to think long and hard about and really do your research on the property.
Yeah.
Yeah, I used to live in Arizona, and on the plus side, it's like, hey, nothing rusts here.
That's awesome.
On the downside, there's no water, and there's no soil.
So, well, not really sustainable.
Okay, next question.
Now, I would imagine that the people selling properties...
They, there must be this delicate balance where I would imagine many of them have things like safe rooms or whatever, but they don't want to, you know, publicize that on a public website, right?
So is there kind of a wink and a nod sometimes on somebody who's like, hey, you got to come out and see it because you want to believe it?
No, absolutely.
So we're not, you know, exclusively selling, you know, bunkers or such, but obviously there are some actual bunkers on the site.
And a lot of people, you know, especially if it's a custom built place that may have some of those features, say a vault room or a safe room built in.
And yeah, a lot of times, yeah, they don't really want pictures on the site.
So in general, they'll say there's additional features for, you know, that can be discussed with qualified parties.
And they go and, you know, they want to vet, you know, Who's, you know, inquiring, figuring out, make sure they're serious, you know, serious, real qualified buyer.
And likewise, you know, most of these properties are not expecting people to just drive up and, you know, show up and look around.
They're expecting communication first.
And we're, of course, very accommodating of people's privacy if they want to put their name on there or their phone number or if they don't want to.
Or if they...
We have a few properties.
In general, we have a decent, pretty good idea of where they're located.
But there are a few properties that are just given a...
Somewhere in Kansas style location.
Oh, that was my next question because I noticed some of the properties do have addresses.
Yeah, not all of them.
Yeah, and that's really just a matter of...
How privacy conscious someone might be.
If they're putting it up on Zillow and Realtor.com as well, then there's not too much to hide at that point.
But some people really are very privacy conscious and Survival Realty might be the only place it's listed and they might keep the address and a lot of the details private.
And then if I could ask, what's your revenue model?
I know you have it on your website.
It says here, learn more for property owners.
Is it a flat fee for listing?
Yeah.
So yeah, we're doing a flat fee listing, working with both real estate agents and property owners.
And that's something that I'll say it's been a little slow the past couple of years, simply because property has been turning over so quickly.
There's been so little need to advertise property.
Oh, interesting.
Okay.
All you do is you put a sign out and people beat down your door.
But really, it's been in the last four to five months we've really seen that change.
Basically, the week right after interest rates were first hiked, we got a whole host of new agents, agents in particular, who are reaching out to us because they were seeing what was coming down the road and the need to get out in front of it and get good visibility on their listings so that they don't get stuck with them.
Okay, cool.
Now, different question.
A lot of our listeners, I mean, most of our listeners are already squared away, but some may be wanting to relocate.
Do you have anything where qualified people can contact you to get, I don't know, a consulting advice on where to go and what to look for in property?
Yeah.
Yeah, so I don't do a whole lot of consulting myself.
I'm always glad to answer questions via email and such as well.
My father, James Wesley, of course, does do consulting on a part-time basis.
And then he and I also recently reissued a book that he originally put out around the early 2000s entitled Survival Retreats and Relocation.
What we're doing there is really trying to give the big picture of Why you might want to relocate, how you might go about thinking about the different factors that go into it in your own situation.
And then of course we spend a lot of time looking through each state and a lot of specific regions nationwide and how you might go about identifying your target location and then finding a property in that area.
Let me ask you about those regions.
I know that from your father's work, I know he's very fond of the Idaho area, which I think is also great.
I'm also familiar with people who live in the Ozarks, and they think the Ozarks is a fantastic region.
What are some other areas that just come to mind off the top of your head?
Obviously, the biggest advantage of the inland northwest is a combination of factors.
You've got hydropower, you've got decent rainfall.
It's a four-season climate and a shorter growing season, of course, which is probably the biggest downside there.
But a lot of that's made up for by the culture and the political leanings, which are more conservative with slightly more self-sufficient mindset versus some other regions.
I think the areas I see people headed beside the inland northwest, some people obviously looking to be in coastal areas in perhaps Washington or Oregon.
But of course, the political situation there is a little dicey for those that are of a red persuasion.
So I think I see the biggest draw happening towards Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Missouri, simply because of the Mild, relatively mild climate.
You've got to deal with humidity, but it's a very long growing season.
You're not dealing with a lot of snow.
And you've got good rainfall, pretty good farming potential.
And of course, a lot of it is a extremely rural, relatively low population density area.
So I think there are a lot of advantages there.
Obviously, you're somewhat closer to some of the Big population centers in Texas and on the East Coast.
But really, there's a lot of areas in that region that are very quiet and rural.
A number of appealing small cities where you might still be able to find work might be able to have some of the modern comforts without going completely back in the boondocks.
So it's really just a trade-off.
Go ahead.
No, no.
You can finish your thought.
Go ahead.
Oh, yeah.
I was going to say the other area, I think I see people who have ties to the East Coast, they end up looking in western North Carolina, West Virginia, and some of those states.
Tennessee?
Yeah, Tennessee.
Tennessee and Kentucky as well.
Just because they still want access to the East Coast, to the major cities, whether it be work or family connections.
There's a lot of areas, again.
Again, that's bringing you into closer proximity to a lot higher population, a lot of potential downsides there, but again, very mild climate.
Trying to just pursue basic sustainability is definitely actually very good there.
Yeah, absolutely.
One of the things I noticed about moving to Texas is because it's an agricultural center, and I want to ask you about the culture, that it's very normal to have, for example, a 500-gallon diesel tank.
Yep.
Right.
Whereas if you try that near Portland, Oregon, people are going to think you're bizarre or out of your mind.
And I found that also the people in Central Texas, they have skills that are fantastic.
They're welders.
They know how to drill wells.
They know how to repair vehicles or even agricultural equipment.
They know how to handle animals.
So I've found that getting into a place where the people around you have these skill sets is really just invaluable.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's something where, again, if you're living in a suburb outside of Seattle where everyone commutes into the Amazon campus and sits at a cubicle all day, everyone has a very...
Technologically oriented skill set and by and large is lacking any sort of practical skills or the field where they can actually develop those skills.
So there's definitely a sense in which if you are, again, in any of the mountain states or in agricultural areas, there's a lot more just baseline preparedness that still exists that really goes back to What's in our,
you know, cultural DNA of pioneers and farmers and mountain men, where, you know, the reality is that there was a time when, you know, food storage was just a matter of making sure you were ready for winter.
And that cultural, you know...
Heritage does still exist in some places.
Obviously, there's Costco everywhere and people have shifted that way.
But rural areas tend to have more of that mindset versus the mindset of, well, I can just get fast food or HelloFresh or whatever it is.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Now, can I ask you, what's the most expensive property that you've ever listed on your site?
That's a good one.
I don't have that offhand.
I want to say we've been in the range of $12 million.
I believe that was a very large estate-type property with a lot of conservation land back in New York State, if I remember right.
Wow.
Well, that's interesting.
Yeah, we get quite a variety.
It's actually a lot of fun that way.
Every property is very unique.
This is not all three bedroom, two bath houses on a quarter acre.
Yeah, exactly.
And do you find that since COVID and the lockdowns and all of that, that the real estate agent snicker factor has reduced now?
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think there's a certain sense of...
I think everyone saw it at some level or another.
I've got people I know who were...
So, you know, family members commented, you know, we're out here, you know, playing in the park, just having a good time in the midst of a lockdown.
And when, you know, other parts of the country are on lockdown, they're, you know, video chatting with their, you know, cousins who are in an apartment, stuck in an apartment, you know, in New York City.
And they're going stir crazy.
And we've honestly pretty much forgotten that there's anything going on.
So, yeah, absolutely.
Huge difference.
But I think that was a point where...
Everyone did realize it might not have motivated everyone to take action necessarily, but yeah, I mean, the conspiracy theorists, the paranoid types, all of those were definitely proven right in some respects, and I definitely feel that as well.
So I think there is a sense in which all of that is taken a little more seriously, given a little more credence now.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think there's also an understanding, but I mean, you give me your thoughts on this, that living more free doesn't have to cost more money.
And look on your site.
You've got a listing right now under 100K. It's four bedroom, one bath on 19 acres in southeast Oklahoma, which, by the way, Oklahoma is a great area to consider.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Particularly, a lot of it comes down to, you know, cost of land.
The Southwest obviously have, in a lot of areas, significantly lower land prices versus, say, the Northwest.
And a lot of that comes down to your personal situation.
For myself, I've got a lot of family connections here in the Northwest.
That's where our church is.
That's where our connections are.
That's where our community is.
And having a community is obviously a much bigger asset than whether you have five acres or a hundred acres or a thousand acres.
But really, yeah, there's the right spot for everybody.
It might be where you are right now or it might be somewhere else.
And it really merits careful consideration of what that might be.
Yeah, absolutely.
Now, I just want to remind folks that the website we're talking about here is survivalrealty.com.
Not a sponsor and has not paid for this interview at all.
I just reached out and invited Jonathan here to do this.
Didn't even know he was the son of James Wesley Rawls.
That was just a surprise, which is awesome.
But I've been thinking about this, too.
I've done a lot of books myself and audiobooks, things like that, about what's coming.
Let's just say when SHTF, your website might have a completely different role.
I mean, you could be, let's just say, let's take something as there's an event in the coastal area that causes radioisotopes to be deposited along a coastline, right?
Like the Russian Poseidon missile.
Right.
You have mass migration away from the coast.
Your website is going to get just hammered to the point where you might have trouble staying online.
Oh yeah, no, absolutely.
Yeah, and it's, I think, you know, any of that situation is, I mean, obviously the economic ramifications are massive.
But yeah, I mean, that would be a situation where you do see massive relocation.
And it's important to realize that when we come to the end of the world, collapse situations, they can take a lot of forms.
There are the asteroid impact nuclear scenarios where it happens all at once.
It's incredibly dramatic and violent.
And we've got day zero where everyone wakes up and is trying to deal with the aftermath of it.
But looking at history as well, you've got a lot of scenarios where the collapse is something that's very protracted, very unpleasant, but largely imperceptible even to those that are living through it.
They might not even realize, you know, exactly how far things went until they're looking back on it because you're seeing things, you know, this is the frog in the boiling water where things get a little worse each day where, you know, you start to wonder, well, can I find toilet paper?
And things can, you know, things can deteriorate further from there.
So it's important to realize that, you know, We need to be ready for both the big dramatic event and just for making ourselves more resilient in order to really provide for our families.
For my family, that is Our core values are faith and liberty.
And being able to provide those, being able to defend those through whatever circumstances come down the road, that's something that's not just a matter of how much you have stocked up, but the type of life you're living, being able to do that.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think a principle I know you would agree with here is that, folks, you don't want to be trying to relocate after it hits the fan.
Yes, absolutely.
You need to be squared away.
And in fact, I'd like to ask you about that.
So, you know, I live in rural Texas and I've spent a decade trying to get better prepared.
And I still don't feel like I'm where I want to be because it takes so much time to build self-reliant infrastructure.
It's not a trivial thing.
And right now, by the way, it's very difficult to get professionals to work on electrical, plumbing, whatever.
You know what I mean?
Absolutely.
And then if it comes to getting, you know, solar inverters, batteries, things like that, when you've got shipping delays and everything else going on, yeah, it's definitely not easy.
So there's value, though, then, in those homesteads that are ready to go.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, if you're buying something that someone's put 10 years of work into, that's a huge, huge benefit.
can't be reflected in, you know, how these properties get priced.
Um, obviously pricing on properties like this is such a challenging thing because it's, each one is so unique, but yeah, it's an absolutely huge asset to be able to find a property that someone's invested in, um, where you've got, you know, trees and berry bushes and, you know, you know, trees and berry bushes and, you know, good, well-developed well, maybe a, you know, good solar system, a house that works well.
All of these things are things that take a huge amount of money and effort.
It depends.
Sometimes it's sweat equity.
Sometimes you just need to pour a lot of money into it.
But the fact is, yeah, they take time.
Do you have some listings that...
Are livable without electricity.
Yeah, absolutely.
I'd say around a third to a half of the properties that we feature have at least some provision for going off-grid.
In some cases, this is just a cabin that's not connected to the main grid, so they've probably got a generator and a 500 or 1,000-gallon fuel tank.
So that's obviously a system that's much more dependent on being able to refuel.
Sure.
If you have a more comprehensive solar system where you're able to – then your consumables become the batteries and on the long term, of course, inverters and charge controllers.
But that's a system where you could go 10, 15 years and continue to generate your own power as long as you've got spare parts.
Yeah, and see, that's a key point in all of this is being able to have spare parts, not only for generators, but like you said, solar systems as well, the inverters, they go bad.
Batteries are horrible.
You know, battery tech is just still awful.
I'm not impressed.
It's getting better, but it's got a long ways to go.
Yeah.
I always thought that the best kind of property would be something built into the side of a hill, like an actual cave home, where you don't have to heat or cool.
Have you ever seen properties like that?
We get a number along those lines.
And yeah, there's definitely big benefits there.
As long as it's well-constructed, you're not dealing with structural water issues, because those things do happen, obviously.
But if it's well-constructed, you've got huge benefits in terms of being able to be livable with much lower energy inputs.
When you talk to the peak oil, people are more looking at the environmental side of things, looking at using less energy.
Personally, I don't see that being a sustainable future.
I think we need to be better at using energy and producing energy.
But the reality is that in a challenging, even just looking at Nord Stream and everything else going on, there's definitely potential that The era that we're living in of very low-cost electricity and fuel, that could be changing.
We could be looking at a situation more like what's experienced in Europe and the rest of the world, or perhaps even worse.
Oh, yeah.
Things can change very rapidly.
So being able to function in a lower energy setting where you just can't afford to air condition 4,000 square feet in the middle of summer, yeah, that's a well-designed property, a passive solar house underground.
Yeah, so that's a great asset.
Well, this is what I noticed when I lived in Arizona, that the older homes that were built in the 50s and 60s, they were built without air conditioning.
And so they had much better airflow.
They were using adobe style or tapia style construction.
They had clay tiles on the floor, so they were in contact with the ground.
But they were breezy.
The air could move through.
Whereas today's homes, modern homes, are sealed shut.
In order to achieve these, I don't know what the ratings are for air conditioning ratings, but if the power goes down, these modern homes are unlivable.
No, they become sealed boxes at that point because you've got no air exchange.
And then, of course, if you try to open up all the windows, then you're creating new problems.
So, yeah, it's definitely a challenge.
Of course, the challenge there is that for most people, their price point kind of forces them into that.
Because you're either looking at something that you build yourself with a lot of sweat equity.
But of course, for a lot of people, they've got to work, they've got to feed their family, so they don't necessarily have the wherewithal to take a year to go build something by hand out of Adobe.
Or you're talking very high-end custom builds, which are fantastic, but again, not necessarily in the range that most people are looking at.
So some of that comes down to a matter of just trying to be strategic with how you set up your house, making the best of it.
For example, wood stove and just making sure your house is well laid out to function well if the power is out.
I just clicked on bunkers and bomb shelters on your site because this is going to be the most fun to look at.
Here's a listing, for example, in Massachusetts, a 7,200 square foot underground vault.
Plus a 2,400-square-foot house, I guess, on top of it.
That's pretty awesome.
Oh, yeah.
There's a lot of fun stuff out there, and it's fun being able to see some of those because there's properties like that that are scattered, honestly, all across the U.S. for any number of purposes.
They might have been built for telecommunications, military infrastructure.
There's plenty of reasons that people have built some very interesting properties.
Yeah.
And it's, you know, I am, you know, very, when I'm, you know, advising people directly, I definitely want to make sure people are very cognizant of, you know, the realities of the fact that a bunker is a dead end in some sense, right?
You can pull back into it, but it's like a turtle going inside his shell, right?
Everything else is, everything is going on outside, around you, and you've got to come back out at some point.
So they're not the perfect solution.
But, you know, for some scenarios, yeah, that might be, I'd say, and they are out there.
Well, I always say, always have an exit that's different from the entrance.
Exactly.
Kind of a principle.
Also, in case of structural failure, too, you know?
Yeah.
But I'm shocked that you can buy, for example, an old military bunker that is in, looks like South Dakota, for just $55,000.
It's a 2,200 square foot bunker, probably built for a couple of million dollars by the military at some point in today's dollars.
But yet you can get some of these on the cheap, it seems.
Yeah.
Yeah, and obviously there's probably a lot of renovation that you might need to put into that to actually make it livable.
That'll probably go way beyond your initial purchase price.
But yeah, there are some cool opportunities.
And then we occasionally see those ones that have really been fully renovated, turned into some very nice homes.
So yeah, it's fun.
Well, do you ever get listings from...
I know there are companies out there that purchase large missile silos, and then I think they build, essentially, apartments out of them.
Yeah, and I think that one you were looking at, I believe, is owned by someone that's in one of those developments.
Oh, really?
Yeah, and so a lot of times that's going to be something like it's more of a condo-type situation.
Perhaps you've got a 99-year lease on the bunker itself.
Oh.
So yeah, they're interesting projects.
And of course, the big thing there is the factor that, you know, a lot of times these are very out of the way.
It's going to be difficult to, it may be difficult to incorporate that into a A sustainable lifestyle where it's not just a last-ditch location.
Right.
I hear you.
Well, some people may be purchasing a bug-out location in addition to where they live.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that's what for...
Again, there's a wide range of people that we talk to.
Some are looking to just make a single relocation.
They're looking to move to Montana or Texas or wherever it is with their family.
Looking to find a job there, put down roots there, and that's what they want to do.
For other people, it is they're looking at something as a second property or third property, as a worst-case bug-out property.
A lot of times it ends up being a hunting cabin or something like that in the meantime as well.
What about the Starlink satellite service?
Doesn't this open up a lot of opportunities for people to work off grid where they couldn't?
Yeah, absolutely.
That's been hugely valuable for telecommuters, for remote workers, because that really has, along with the COVID transition to everyone getting kicked out of their offices anyway.
Yeah.
To where people have said, well, if I'm not going to be in the office, I might as well be out in the woods somewhere.
And yeah, Starlink, I know a lot of people that are using Starlink very successfully, finding it extremely reliable.
Yeah, huge asset there.
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely.
We're getting close to the time here on this interview, but I still have a couple more questions.
Do you talk more to buyers or sellers?
I'd say it's probably split 50-50.
As far as people we work with, it's largely on the seller side.
But we end up getting a lot of inquiries and having a lot of conversations with people that are looking to buy.
Particularly as they're trying to identify where to go, they have the idea that they want to go somewhere, but we end up having to kind of talk through the pros and cons of different areas, trying to help them look at their unique situation and figure out what's the best choice for them.
What reasons do they tell you, the buyers, of why they're relocating or looking to it?
Yeah, I think obviously the biggest one in the last couple of years has been the lockdowns, has been mask mandates, vaccine mandates.
There's just been one thing after another.
I've got people that kind of saw how things went when there was Uh-huh.
They saw that and said, yeah, that's where I want to live.
So I think in some sense, although obviously with the tensions we're seeing in Europe right now, I think there will be some renewed interest in simply getting away from potential nuclear targets.
I think the biggest things have come down to social and political pressures over the last few years.
Do people ever mention the anti-police or defunding of the police?
Yeah, absolutely.
On my vacation, I talk to police officers that are taking an early retirement, and they are Getting out of there.
Because they're feeling that they've not been appreciated.
Oh, sure.
I think the ones I've talked to have really sought to serve their communities and they've felt like they've been pushed out for it.
So, yeah, I think there's definitely that push.
But I was even alluding to people who feel unsafe more than ever.
And also they feel like if they use a firearm in self-defense, they may be prosecuted by a George Soros DA. Yes, absolutely.
And I think that is a real concern.
I would definitely be feeling that if I was living in the big city right now.
So yeah, I think...
People move to a more rural area.
It's not perfect.
Mayberry is not really out there now.
Every area is subject to political disunity and conflict.
But by and large, people get out to more rural, more conservative areas and they really do feel like it is a breath of fresh air versus the environment that they were in, particularly in the coastal cities.
Yeah, right.
And there are also some pitfalls because you said there's not Mayberry out there, but there is Crackberry and Methberry and Child Trafficking Berry and all those places do exist.
Yeah, I know.
That's absolutely an issue.
I'd say the biggest things I see right now.
All through the inland states, you've got a lot of really great, booming, relatively small cities.
Picture Spokane, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, Bozeman, Billings, Montana, and of course plenty of those in the South, Tennessee and Kentucky as well.
All of those are They've got great job prospects opening up versus what things might have been like a few years ago.
A lot of corporations are moving out of Chicago.
Yeah, absolutely.
But of course, that's also coming with the sprawl and traffic and crime problems that just come with larger populations.
So those are the downsides.
And then, yeah, on the other hand, as you alluded to, a lot of the smaller communities are definitely very subject to All the ravages of the drug problems and just depressed economic climate where that can definitely be a culture shock to people that are used to a very fast-paced,
optimistic, kind of can-do mindset in a cultural mindset and then going to a Rural community where you've got generational poverty and that mindset and optimism perhaps are not there.
Although you might have a lot more practical can-do ability.
I had a friend from New York visit one time and go to a rural restaurant and he said, I can't believe they didn't give me, you know, three forks and extra napkins and plates because it's standard in New York City.
I'm like, dude, this is not New York City.
Exactly.
You're going to get some Tex-Mex.
You know, you're going to have an upset stomach.
Welcome to Texas.
Yeah.
Last big question for you.
Do you ever hear people say that they are trying to relocate because they want to be in the right place when secession happens or civil war or something like that?
Oh, yeah.
No, I definitely have those conversations, and I think that does play into it.
Obviously, the American readout movement that my dad originated plays into that.
I am very strongly hoping for and working for wanting to see, you know, not see that happen.
But on the other hand, I think I do hope for, you know, some return to constitutional government, including the 10th Amendment, which really does provide for the states to be largely self-doverning outside of federal control.
And I think I think there are states where we'll see that happening, and I think there are states where we will not see that happening.
And I think, yeah, people are recognizing that.
I think Idaho is one of the states where we may see that happening.
I certainly hope so.
But even here, looking at Idaho specifically in their political situation, there's a lot of discord within the Republican Party even between the Truly conservative branches and the rhino branches, if you will.
Sure, yeah.
I mean, isn't that where Michael Snyder was running for Congress a couple years ago?
Yeah, absolutely.
I had a chance to meet him a few years ago.
Yeah, great guy.
Yeah, I interviewed him at the time.
Yeah, he's definitely a great guy.
The Economic Collapse Blog.
And your father runs survivalblog.com, correct?
Yep.
That's a great site, too.
All kinds of information.
I always tell people that they should get on there, download all the pages, print everything.
You're going to have encyclopedias of knowledge.
Yeah, absolutely.
Hard copy.
Okay.
Any last thoughts as we wrap this up?
Anything?
Yeah.
No, I really appreciate you having some great questions.
I think the big thing I want to hit on is, you know, obviously we can talk about, you know, all the challenges of the big city and, you know, all the possible downsides.
But the big thing I want to emphasize as well is all of this has to be done, you know, if we're looking at relocation.
Don't base it out of, you know, fear, out of, you know, panic, out of I have to get out of here.
But really identify what you want to move towards in terms of Productivity, resiliency, the sort of life that is best for your family and your situation, not just trying to get away from something else.
Maybe a little squishy, but I hope it's helpful.
No, that is helpful.
It's just the people I hear coming out of California are definitely trying to get away from something.
Oh, no, I get it.
There's real reasons there.
Yeah, they're like, Newsom is destroying everything.
We just can't take it anymore.
Absolutely.
And I hear from fellow Texans like, you know, we're like all these Californians coming over.
And I remind them, these are the good Californians.
It's true.
No, it's true.
We're actually gathering patriots from all over the world.
Absolutely.
Stay with me here after the recording.
I just want to...
Actually, I want to give you my cell number and invite you back if you've got any popping news or intel or anything that you want to share.
I want to give you a way to reach me, so stand by.
Sounds great.
But folks, the website again is survivalrealty.com.
And for those of you who pronounce it Realty, notice there is no I in that word.
Thank you.
Yes.
And it's not pronounced realty.
It's realty.
And so that will help you spell it.
I'm sorry to be sarcastic.
I'm just an editor at heart.
But survivalrealty.com.
And you're going to check out all kinds of great properties.
Hope you find one that's perfect for you if you're not already squared away.
And thank you for listening today.
And thank you, Jonathan, for taking the time with us.
Absolutely.
Thanks so much, Mike.
Have a great day.
Absolutely.
You too.
And finally, folks, feel free to repost this interview if you'd like on your own channel or other platforms as well.
It's kind of an open source type of deal.
We want to share this information with as many people as possible.
I'm Mike Adams, the founder of Brighteon.com.
God bless you all.
Thanks for listening.
Take care.
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