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March 24, 2018 - Health Ranger - Mike Adams
54:32
Health Ranger int. David Chalk on cyber-terrorism, potential collapse of power grid, June 2012
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Hello and welcome everyone to the Health Ranger Report, the This is Mike Adams, the Health Ranger with an exciting and crucial topic for you today.
Departing from our usual coverage of sometimes obviously natural health issues.
Today we're talking about cyber technology and a threat that exists to our world due to viruses that have been engineered to take systems down.
I mean big systems like the power grid.
Can you imagine a grid-down scenario in America?
That would be a collapse type of scenario.
That's one of the things that concerns a lot of people.
Well, the power grid, as well as many other systems such as oil refineries and air traffic control and so on, are of course run by computers, highly complex computers that are run on software, and software is vulnerable to attacks by viruses.
You saw the Stuxnet attack recently on, I think, power plants in Iran, and the U.S. government admitted that it had a hand in creating that virus.
Well, today joining us is a technology expert.
His name is David Chalk.
And he has warned the world in a big piece that went out, I guess a couple of weeks ago, warning that the entire power grid is subject to catastrophic failure if we continue to go in the direction of automation and tying the grid together.
He says it's vulnerable, but he says he also has a solution.
So we wanted to have him on the show to talk about the threat and the solutions so that we can prevent catastrophic collapse in the years ahead.
He joins us now by phone.
David Chalk, welcome to the program.
Thank you for having me.
That was a great overview.
You may not need me for as long.
No, no, no.
We need all your information, but start from the power grid situation, because that's maybe a press release that people are familiar with.
You said there's a 100% chance of the grid going down eventually if they continue on the current path.
Please explain that, David.
Certainly.
Everyone, when they hear someone say 100%, says sensationalism, and I've been accused of a lot of that.
When I put that video, if people search on Google under David Chalk, my name, no E at the end, Chalk like the blackboard, and then put Power Grid, you'll see a video I participated in, in which I stated to the world...
And I asked any company in the world that believed they had a technology that was safe from cyber hacking to come forward to this date.
It went out a couple months ago.
No one has and I don't expect anyone to.
The reason I can say 100% is I know what causes an infrastructure of computer systems to be taken down by a cyber intrusion.
And I'll try to explain it in the most simple way, and then if you have a few questions about it, it might even enlighten it more.
Sure.
The first thing we have to realize is that we're not talking about the computer on your desktop.
And many people, when they think about, well, you should be able to protect it, we have antivirus and that.
No, what we're talking about is the world's backbone.
We're talking about telcos, banks, Power grids, oil and gas systems, of which thousands of computers, thousands of different software packages, and thousands of people all interact together.
And it's the interaction of multiple people that causes the problems.
You see, if I'm working on my computer, I can see for the most part if something's going wrong, because I'm in charge of it.
But when you have a worldwide distributed network of computers and you can't see what the other person is doing, you don't know if the other person is the other person or if they're authorized.
So as we move up To what we call infrastructure, we have a massive problem.
In fact, an article came out in Reuters today.
It was about Eugene Kaspersky.
He is the founder of probably one of the most significant antivirus companies in the world, and he is the gentleman that discovered or investigated both Stuxnet, as you said earlier, you were correct, about Iranian nuclear reactors being affected, and the most recent one, which hopefully we have time to talk about, Flame.
Yeah, Flame, right.
And in his article today, he states, and you've got to realize this is a gentleman that knows more than anyone in the world about technology.
He said he believes the world as we know it is about to end.
And he doesn't mean necessarily catastrophic destruction, but what he means is the way we communicate, the availability of power, oil and gas may all go away.
And he says he is very scared because he has seen the inner workings of what is going on and he knows the power of these technologies.
So that's where we're coming from.
And what I said is I know this as well too.
He doesn't know that I have the solution, because I've tried to get through to him many ways, and of course he's a very busy person and he has a lot of guards at the door.
But what I'm hoping to get out there today is how this problem can be solved.
And if people don't come to me, maybe they can invent another way to solve it themselves.
But I'm going to give you the absolute reason, and it will become very apparent, why We cannot stop it with any technology today.
And more than a trillion dollars a year is spent right now trying to prevent cyberattacks.
Let me back up what you just said there, David.
I just pulled up the Reuters story on Eugene Kaspersky, who is, of course, the founder of that very well-known antivirus and computer security company.
His lab discovered the flame virus, and he says, just to back you up there, David, he said...
It's not a cyber war.
It's cyber terrorism.
And I'm afraid it's just the beginning of the game.
I'm afraid, quote, it will be the end of the world as we know it, he told reporters.
Yes, okay, well that's powerful stuff.
Okay, yep.
Yeah, I mean, this is a corporate security guy.
This is not...
This is the guy.
This is the guy the whole world goes to right now.
Yes, yes.
And he says, quote, I'm scared, believe me.
I mean, we don't hear these kinds of statements typically from corporate America.
Let me continue here.
I do want to ask you about Flame, but let me read another quote from Kaspersky here.
Flame...
Wow.
These ideas are spreading too fast.
He says that cyber boomerang may get back to you.
Flame is extremely complicated.
He says nations can employ engineers or kidnap them or employ hacktivists, he said, to try to defend against this.
Software that manages industrial systems or transportation or power grids or air traffic, they have to be based on secure operating systems.
Forget about Microsoft, Linux, Unix, he says.
Wow.
Well, you hear right there one of the most significant problems we have, although it is not the cause of the problem, it is a significant component of it, the operating systems.
Microsoft, Linux, Unix, they have errors and coding problems in them.
And sophisticated hackers find ways to take advantage of these to break into the system and then to break into the infrastructure.
Today, all of those programs have tens of thousands, if not millions of bugs still in there.
People spend countless amount of time trying to find them, and when they find them, they are called a zero-day.
Now, what a zero day means is that this exploit has never been used before.
People write code and software, and then they let it go on the world.
And they know that all the systems that are using the Apple, the Linux, the Unix, or the Microsoft operating system, that this thing can penetrate in right away and do its job because It has never been seen before, and this is the point we're going to talk about today.
Why is it that a computer can be hacked?
I want to tell you right down to the bottom level why.
So we're going to see that they get in through the operating systems in many other ways, but how is it possible that a computer doesn't know they're there?
Well, no.
I mean, that's well established.
I don't think we need to go into that.
I mean, there's so many ways.
Buffer overruns.
We were subjected to SQL injection attacks.
That's where the strings that are submitted in form posts on your browser have a lot of extra data, and then they have SQL commands after the string, and they can go in and delete your database, steal your database.
That's just a simple example.
You must know a lot more examples.
You know, the examples go beyond people's wildest imaginations.
You know these two most recent ones, Stuxnet and Flame.
Even by Kaspersky, he has said that these go beyond anything that anyone could imagine.
There's all sorts of reports out there right now saying that it's a hundred times more powerful than Stuxnet, which was already deemed to be the world's first cyber nuclear weapon, capable of taking down a nuclear power plant to the power grid.
So where are we now?
Possibly a hundred times further along.
Well, what does this mean, though?
Is somebody waiting to pull the trigger on this and bring down nations, bring down entire grids?
Is that what you're saying?
Well, we have to look at it to motive.
And that is...
A virus typically kills the host.
And what we've seen in recent years is rather than killing the host, I'm talking in the human sense.
Now, in computers, if we simply wipe out all the computers, we've lost access to them and to the potential knowledge, content, and money they contain in the sense of transfers.
What we are seeing today is intellectual property theft and espionage.
And government reports from the U.S. claim that It's going to be a shocking number.
98%, I don't know where the other two are, but 98% of all the U.S. high-level computer systems from corporate, civil, and military have been intruded, and information has been taken from them.
In fact, there was an article out recently.
It hardly made the news, but it's certainly searchable about Nortel, which was Canada's darling in the telecom industry, a multi-billion dollar company.
They have now proven that it was systematically taken down by a nation state.
I won't go into the details of it.
It's all online over a 10-year period.
That stole all their intellectual property, marketing, strategy, and then, as we all know, a few years ago the company went bankrupt.
But they went back and looked through the computer logs and they found a systematic destruction through espionage.
So, the next era of warfare, I mean, look at the history of warfare in humankind.
You know, obviously, let's say World War I was ditch warfare with chemical weapons.
World War II brought in the blitzkrieg strategy with armored vehicles.
Vietnam War was really a guerrilla warfare tactic.
Iran, Afghanistan, I'm sorry, Iraq, Afghanistan was really a very unsuccessful door-to-door urban warfare with no end in sight.
Now it looks like the next era of warfare is going to be all electronic, all digital, all virtual.
And all invisible.
Invisible, yeah.
It's just the key thing.
You see, in all of those other wars, it required nation-states or large organizations or guerrilla or any type of group of people that could fund themselves to get weapons, machinery, tools, espionage together to do it.
But in the digital world, because we have a fundamental flaw with computer systems, and the bad guys know that, it doesn't require a lot of money and it doesn't require a lot of computing power.
As we heard in the article earlier from Reuters, in many cases they simply kidnap or manipulate people to write the code that they need to do these devastating things.
Now that these viruses such as Stuxnet and Flame are in the marketplace, you can, just like anything, like buying an old car and modifying it, you can change it.
And you see, the whole way that we protect ourselves today in computer infrastructure is you must know the problem and build a wall to block it.
And again, in the Reuters article, and Kaspersky says that There are many unknown viruses out there, and that's what scares him to death.
So therefore, we're hearing the truth.
He is saying that, that unless we know what it is, or unless we know the modification, we have no way of stopping it.
So my point was, you'll never stop it, because there's always another deviation.
All right, here's what really concerns me, David.
And by the way, for those watching, I want to encourage them to visit your website, davidchalkinc.com.
Be sure to show that up on the screen, guys, so that people can check out that URL. Here's what scares me, David.
In addition to the power grid failure and these kinds of issues, or even viruses taking over banking system computers and causing an economic crash, but here's something worse.
The U.S. military is now going into robot mode.
They are launching tens of thousands of drones, completely unmanned, computer-run, software-run drones.
They're going to be armed drones that are flying over the skies of America.
Doesn't it seem like, in doing this, the military, the Pentagon, they are putting...
An air force of attack drones in the sky that could just then be taken over by an enemy nation and used against the American people.
One hundred percent, and it's already been done.
You can look online at the video of where I ran down one of the US drones by intercepting the signal, hacking into it, and landing it on their runway.
And I remember that was a GPS spoof that they used.
Yes.
Oh, you're right.
Yeah.
Wow.
So what if, let's say China or North Korea, I think China has a lot more technical competency, but let's say China wanted to really mess with America, they could conceivably take over all the drones that are going to be in the skies over the next 5, 10, 20 years, and then just program them to strike U.S. targets, corporate buildings, government buildings.
And then we've got the whole issue of Google robotic cars and robot cars.
What if the robotic cars dominate the roadways and then those get taken over by a terrorist or an enemy force or someone that just uses them to drive everybody off a cliff?
I mean, this is not science fiction anymore.
No, and this is not a game.
Just going back to what you said about a nation-state like China, the only good thing about it, inside of that terrible situation, is that it is a low likelihood that China would do that, because they're such a dependent trading partner with the U.S., and there's so much vested international transactions between the two countries, what they will do, possibly, is death by a thousand cuts.
Take the intellectual property and use it against the United States.
And let me make a quick comment on the automobiles.
This is something that people do have to understand, not to panic about, but many of the new car companies are saying that their cars can automatically park.
And they've got automatic brake detection if they were to be in an accident.
So let's look at that vehicle.
It's sort of a hermetically sealed computer system.
But today they have satellite communications, they have Wi-Fi communications, and they have Bluetooth communications.
Can hack into a car, and you can look at it on YouTube, not me, but others doing it, and you can reprogram the automobile because there are more than 10 million lines of code, and someone could have the brakes not apply at a certain point under a certain condition, or they could have the fuel shut off or lock the steering.
So here we are driving down the road thinking we're in the most advanced vehicle, and we are.
But let's remember one thing.
That vehicle is 100% hackable as it is on the road today.
It may not happen to you.
There's already the satellite systems that can turn off the ignition of your car.
What's that, OnStar, I think, is that system that's already in place.
Just imagine taking this.
But there's another angle.
I want your comment on this thought, David.
Also, rogue elements within a government Isn't that also another feasible scenario?
Yes.
And sadly, we are on a little bit of a path to that.
Recently, I guess it was maybe even last summer, Congress passed a bill that gave the U.S. nuclear strikeability against a nation-state or anyone that deems to be harming the U.S. by a cyber-attack.
And you've got to realize what that says.
It says far more than we're going to attack you.
It says we have no solution.
And the only time that you're going to go on a first-strike nuclear attack is to use it as a deterrent to say, You are not going to bring down our power grid.
You are not going to go into our water supply system, our oil and gas, or we're going to nuke you.
But read between the lines.
We have no way of stopping you.
And therefore, we have to use a threat.
It seems like if we continue on this path, we're looking at something like the rise of the machines.
We haven't talked about AI yet, and I know that's not necessarily a developed...
It is an interesting point.
We can touch on it, because I think it will surprise people of where that's going.
Go ahead.
Yeah, go ahead.
I was going to say that there really is no AI, because it always requires a human at the other end to program it, and it always requires a human to confirm the logic.
When we look at movies that use artificial intelligence, we're probably 10, 20, 30, 40 years away from that, because the way computers work We don't truly allow knowledge to organically grow the way we think of it as a human being.
So that's a misnomer.
And that's where many people think how we're going to find the solution to cyber, but it is not going to be found there, because we do not have organic growth with digital infrastructures.
They must be created by a human, and they must be confirmed by a human.
Well, thank God, because AI can be so critically dangerous.
I mean, AI, if it did exist, it would need to be immediately quarantined.
I mean, AI could destroy humanity.
This is Terminator come true if that level of AI gets developed.
I mean, why wouldn't it just decide that humanity is no longer necessary?
Right, and that's the thing.
It doesn't have a conscience.
And until that time, it will still require a human being to tell it what is right or wrong as to whether or not to do it.
Of course, they could put a code in there that says whenever you feel like it, just go and destroy humanity, and it may well do that.
But we can rest safe to some degree.
That it isn't going to be the computer that is going to destroy this world the way we know it.
It's going to be mankind using and manipulating technology.
That's the truth.
What about, though, this reminds me of a movie back from, I think, the 1990s starring Robert Redford.
It was called Sneakers.
It's a really amazing movie.
And in that movie, as I recall, someone had developed almost like a quantum computer decryption device.
It could decrypt any code, any encryption, anywhere on the planet instantly.
Basically a quantum computer, which, as you know, is under development right now.
And they have functioning qubits in labs in, I think, the NIST in Boulder, Colorado, is working on that technology as well as many others.
But that's not...
10, 20, 30 years away.
They could have a quantum computer in two years that can break 512-bit encrypted codes.
How would that impact everything that we're talking about here in terms of cybersecurity?
Well, of course, it will allow them to, you know, what they're going to try and break into with that is hack into systems that contain passwords and security information, get that, and then use that in worse ways, or hack directly into secure centers.
The problem that, what I'd love to just talk to you about quickly is, All of this can go away.
We've all accepted this fact that you can break into a computer, but you can't break into my brain.
There's many things you can't really, and of course you can, you can't break into a microwave oven and re-control it, because certain things are sort of hermetically sealed.
A microwave is a microwave.
It doesn't take software.
It doesn't allow you to load something new and manipulate it.
Right, you don't upgrade your microwave.
And my brain has no ability other than you try to brainwash me in all strict sense of the word.
You can't control me.
And that is where computers have to be.
And I'll tell you the reason that every single disaster we are reading about and every potential piece of disaster is there is in one fundamental design flaw in the original computer.
And that was, when we connect computers together, which we said was the infrastructure that we're talking about, the power grid or what have you, in order to know that they are working properly, they spit out data.
So I sent this to Bob, Bob sent it to Tom, Mary did this, and after that Henry did it, and then maybe a cyber intrusion occurred, but nobody can see this, so they don't know.
So they collect all that data.
And that data is then run through software programs, antivirus programs, and much more...
I know you were involved in antivirus.
And you look at that data and you analyze it to see what was wrong.
But there's the flaw staring you right in the face.
Something had to go wrong and then be checked, and then you create an antivirus so that it doesn't happen again.
But if I change it just one little bit, you don't have the antivirus and I can get you again.
The solution, and again, I'm not here to tout the virtues of our technology because all the power to anyone who wants to go and invent this, but I want to try and change the fork in the road that people are going down.
And that is, in order to stop the crisis that the world is in, we cannot connect computers together and then look at what happens.
The solution to it is we connect the computers together, and then we use another computer, which may sound pretty basic, but it's not, to monitor those computers to make sure they're only doing what they're supposed to do.
An overseer, a governor.
The way it's done today is you have to tell the main computer, the firewall, every single thing that cannot come in and out.
And that's infinite.
But, if you monitor a computer system with what it is supposed to do, like a microwave oven is a microwave oven, or a tire plant is a tire plant, or an aircraft or a car is a car, as soon as the system that is monitoring it knows what the car is supposed to do when it's working correctly, Anything else is wrong.
So if somebody hacks into the vehicle to reset the brakes, the system knows that's not part of what we do here and stop it.
The reason there is nothing in the world that can do this is an entire new language has to be written.
And again, that's what's in that article by Kaspersky's is you need a whole new language.
We actually wrote that language and it's called the causal query language.
And it allows a computer system to watch a computer system on the fly to make sure it's only doing what it's doing.
Now, everyone thinks that's how computers work, but you know, many of the listeners know, that's not how they work.
They're all done in hindsight.
But didn't NASA have something like this in the early days of the space shuttle back in the, let's say, the 1980s?
Didn't they have three standalone computer systems, each making decisions about flight control surfaces, and then those three systems would compare the results, and if one disagreed, that would be thrown out?
They did, but here's the thing, and this is the oxymoron.
In order to have software work, you have to have data.
And the data has to be what's happening.
And if the data is there, that means something already happened.
So what these computers work to do is fix the problem as quick as possible, but they can't block the problem from occurring.
And so again, the three computers may battle it out as to what caused the problem and try and fix it, but the O-ring still burst, or the oxygen system cut off for a couple seconds, and we can't have that happen.
So there's a massive paradigm shift, and that is where the mental energy of the world has to go over to.
And it's a paradigm shift, because we're constantly told You know, this is crazy speak.
No, but you're talking about a complete overhaul of virtually every computing system on the planet.
Every single system in the world.
I mean, you're talking about a structural gutting the current system, putting in a replacement that's structurally very different.
It's going to have to have this oversight processing.
It's like an overkeeper, yeah.
Right, and so now you're going to have to, gosh, there are a lot of implications for this.
You're talking about, you're going to have to buy, you know, let's say twice as many processors.
No, to tell you the truth, the beautiful thing about it, and I won't go into all the details, sometimes a solution is like art.
It's so simple.
It's so fundamental that the massive world of computing we see today is all there to try and protect against something it doesn't know how to protect.
It's like ripping out the Berlin Wall and letting people freely walk between the place.
You only need a tiny amount of protection.
Because once you do that, in fact, it drops off by 90% of the computing power, 90% of the software, and 90% of the cost.
But because we're on this ever-increasing model of trying to plug the holes in the dike, it's like fighting superbugs.
You know, the antibiotics.
You just keep making bigger and bigger antibiotics.
But if you knew what caused the superbug to happen, you wouldn't need the darn antibiotics.
Yeah, you're exactly right.
I see what you're saying.
So what's happened here is if we go back, we don't even have to strip the computers down.
You can add this on and slowly shut down your other pieces.
But the problem is...
When you've been fighting superbugs in human beings or whatever for years, no one's going to say, just let it go and go off in this new direction.
So there's incredible pushback.
But where I say that the world's now got to listen, when you get Kestrowski, the leader of the world, saying he believes in so many words, it's over as we know it, and I'm scared.
Then maybe it is time to think about investing if we care about our families and our children and our way of life.
Because if the power grid goes down, there's a book out by Richard A. Clark called Cyberwar.
In it, he states that if it's taken down, it may never come back up.
And that's what Kaspersky's saying is that we can't fix it.
That is the issue, and a lot of people don't realize how fragile our complex technology systems really are.
I have another question for you along those lines, but yeah, I agree with you.
If the power grid goes down today, if the whole thing goes down, there is no reasonable way to restart it.
It would have to be done by cutting off sections into a small region, having that region come online, and then go to one more section.
I mean, it could take years and years to recover.
And where are you going to make the parts?
You don't have the electricity.
Exactly.
You don't have the infrastructure.
You have no water.
You have no sewer.
You have no gas.
You have nothing.
That's right.
That's right.
You don't have fuel.
I mean, the refinery's shut down.
You can't truck parts.
And there are only three grids in the U.S. You nail all three of those, and the entire North America is down.
Yeah, well, that's why I'm in Texas, because Texas has its own grid.
You've got your own.
Yeah, Texans are not going to let their grid go down if they can help it, that's for sure.
I've got to admit, there's an east to west, and then there's Texas.
Yes, Texas is like that.
Texas is like, we'll do our own power grid, we'll have our own state defense, Texas has its own way, which is really powerful.
You know, it's always been that way there.
And you know what?
Texas may be the one to survive and dominate the world once in a while.
Oh, who knows?
But what about, let me ask you this, what about heuristics?
Because, as you mentioned, I do have a background in computer security.
I used to work, actually, for a prominent antivirus company back when I just got out of college.
I was a technical documentation person.
And I remember writing about the heuristics.
There were efforts, you know, rule-based systems within the operating system to say that, hey, you know, nothing should be written as a rootkit onto the boot sector, you know, things like that.
Is that a viable option?
Yeah.
Yeah, they're called neural nets.
They are there.
They're one more finger in the dike.
They are keeping us alive, we'll say.
Artificial lung, artificial kidney, that's what they're doing.
But they're not addressing the root problem.
And that is, why don't we just know what it's supposed to do?
And say that everything else is wrong by default.
And because no computer in the system in the world can be programmed because you didn't have the causal language to do it, you can't tell it what's right.
We can only tell it what's wrong.
We have to come up with neural nets.
We have to come up with antivirus.
We have to come up with firewalls and massive, massive amounts of computer power and databases.
So we've gone down the wrong path.
It's cost us billions and trillions of dollars, but our lives, our banks, our hospitals, our monetary system, even our economy.
The reason our economy is in part of the condition it's in is because North American companies can't compete Because the cost of doing business has so many hidden costs to it that the average person doesn't realize what's happening inside of corporations with their need for computing power and the losses on IT theft that are occurring to cut their ability to be competitive.
If we stop and think and say let's just give computers the intelligence to know when they're doing what they're doing, everything else goes away.
And then, let me give you a definition.
The only way you can know if something is wrong is to know what is right, because it's really a relative thing.
That's a good point.
So, if we say that this computer does X, Y, and Z a thousand times over, then anything else is wrong.
So I can make a statement of 100% security, which no one believes.
But at the same time, if we use a methodology of defining everything that is wrong, That's why I can say with 100% security the power grid will come down.
So we have to go from a mentality, and I'll tell you what it goes back to.
It goes back to the human brain.
We have survived.
Organisms have survived on the planet Earth for one reason.
It's a thing we call homeostasis.
It's the ability of an organism to maintain normal conditions irrespective of what's going on outside.
Our body doesn't need to know when it's attacked by a small virus.
It fights it.
It just knows it's not right.
Our brain has what is right.
When I teach you how to do something, I teach you the right way to do it, and therefore every other way is wrong.
When we invented computers because we couldn't write the language at that time, we said we're going to have to do it backwards.
We're going to have to define everything that's wrong.
And that's where the fork in the road happened, and that's why today we are constantly patching and fixing everything, because we could never tell it what was right.
This has implications even in human philosophy and psychology.
It does.
It was actually taken from philosophy, from Buddhist religion, from many other things, before you could have a paradigm shift to say, what is the ultimate being?
When something is pure and knows the truth, That purity cannot be affected or damaged because it can ward off what is wrong without knowing that it's wrong, just knowing that it's not right.
And that purity of understanding is what had to be done when looking at computers and saying there is something that has to be done right.
And let's just look at it from that perspective.
But let's look at...
Who benefits from all this?
Because we talk about teaching computers what's right, but still half the human beings on our planet don't know what's right because they have ethical lapses and they benefit from this.
There is an agenda out there to use cyber terrorism, to use these vulnerabilities in order to earn money, to gain power, to scare the population.
Who benefits from the current failed design of computer security?
Two people.
And it's the two sad truths.
The perpetrators that are doing it and the people that protect you from it.
And the poor individual in the middle who's just trying to make a living or the corporation that's trying to create the next vaccine for something is damaged in between.
Because they cannot guarantee that their systems are being used only for what they're supposed to be used for.
Right.
So, you know, the reason what is very interesting when you said, you know, who knows what's right?
The reason in business and in commercial computers we know what's right is because we connect them together to make a widget, or we connect them together to make something happen.
And the very way we connected them together is the way they work.
And we just tell the computer that watches them, here's how they're connected together.
And if anyone does anything that's not this connection, don't let it through.
It sounds too simple, but there was a fact that it couldn't be done before.
And now it can be done.
But, I'll tell you this from personal experience, I've met with hundreds and hundreds of corporations, the largest players in the world, and I won't say that I've met with them specifically, but the Oracles, the IBMs, the Microsofts of the world, and will say that they're not running to the pump, so to speak, to permanently solve this problem, because you could liken it to cancer.
Everything out there today is a remedy for the symptoms of cancer.
If I was to bring to you the genetic mutation that causes the gene in the body to first mutate And I could say, I could stop that mutation from occurring.
There is no cancer, there is no industry, and there's no trillions of dollars.
So if we backtrack computers to the point where we flip the switch and go to programming and move what's right rather than what's wrong, the whole word cyber goes away.
Attack, virus, every single thing of it is non-existent.
It's like asking me if I need a screen door on a submarine.
I don't, and it's irrelevant.
It is the whole reason we don't trust computers, the whole reason that we have a cyber problem is because you have to tell it everything that can be wrong.
Once this problem is fixed, sadly, To those that make a lot of money off of it, it isn't as profitable.
But just like the buggy whip people, you move into business process improvement.
You help companies do better things.
Their money doesn't have to go to trying to protect themselves from nation-state or criminal attacks.
We have to be big and look at this as adults and say, come on, the top people in the world are saying the world's falling apart, let's do something about it.
There is a huge amount of money in this.
I remember when I was in an antivirus software company, it was like 10 people.
It was very small.
And just, I don't know, five years after I had left, it had become probably a $20 million a year company.
And now it's even bigger.
It's probably a couple...
I know it's a couple hundred million dollars a year.
I don't want to name the name because it's not relevant.
I understand.
It's one of the big ones.
Look at the profits.
Look at Walmart.
It's the largest company in the world.
And it trades...
Market cap is about half of its annual sales, meaning that the world doesn't value it.
If you go into the high-tech industries of the Semantics, the Microsofts, the Oracles, and the IBMs, they trade at 10 to 30 times their revenue.
Yeah, that's true.
It's unheard of, and the only reason is because they make so much profit.
I'm not saying that they are doing this purposely.
What I'm saying is they're too busy fixing the problem and making money rather than solving the problem.
You're right on it.
Just for the record, when I was there, I never saw any effort For this company to create a virus and put it out there to scare people to buy more software.
I never saw anything like that ever taking place.
They didn't need to.
There was enough hackers doing their own thing anyway.
We were inundated just trying to get the software to protect against that stuff.
Yeah.
So, you know, what has to be said is put on the brakes, and let's see why the problem occurs.
There's not an article ever written about, okay, people, why can people break into a computer?
How is it possible?
Now, I've tried to get myself meetings with all of these massive companies.
Do you think I've ever had one?
Never!
Never!
And also sometimes I remember, for example, there was a very famous case where McAfee Software, I think they had an update that went out that was more destructive than a virus.
It destroyed people's computers as the antivirus software.
It was like the worst Trojan horse.
I remember there was a big uproar about that.
Remember that one?
That's how precarious the whole situation is.
It doesn't take much.
Let me remind your listeners, here's the words you hear when something goes wrong.
You have a virus.
And McAfee, Symantec, or any of the companies, we are going to remove it.
But you've got to listen to it.
You have a virus.
It had to have occurred.
We aren't preventing.
We're not curing cancer.
We're not getting to the core.
What is it that allows it in?
And that's what I said.
The computer has to know what's right.
And that doesn't come from fixing.
So it's not antivirus we're looking for.
We're looking for the cause.
Yes.
So the virus is the effect.
We have a cause and effect world.
It's what our universe is based on.
We're dealing with the symptoms.
A doctor takes your temperature.
He's looking at an effect and he's trying to figure it backwards.
He takes your pulse.
If we, as the body, or God, or whatever you want to say, knew what had the body work in a homostasis mode, then it balances it.
That's why we have an adrenaline system.
That's why our breathing changes.
That's why we can fix a cut.
Because our bodies were granted this beautiful thing of knowing the truth.
And they bring the body back.
Almost like an immune system or a guardian system for computers.
It's what it is.
Yeah, to look top-down, to watch the activity, the actual behavior that's going on, and to say, is this acceptable behavior?
Part of who we are.
Yeah.
But let me ask you this question, and I hope you still have time.
I know we're going...
I'm fine.
You are.
Okay.
History tells us that humanity only learns from crisis.
Humanity has very poor skills at looking ahead and anticipating the effects of present-day decisions.
Humanity learns from crisis.
And to invoke something from sci-fi, since so much of this sounds like sci-fi, but it's reality, look at the Battlestar Galactica series, right?
Where I think Commander Adama was the only one who said, on his ship, nothing is networked.
There's no networks, he used these old phones, and his ship was then immune to the Cylon virus attack that destroyed the defenses and then destroyed the planet.
Obviously that's fiction, but it's based in what is conceivably a real scenario in the not-too-distant future.
It is true, and places and areas and regions are disconnecting the connectivity because we never had a cyber crisis before we had computers.
You know, here's the things I've heard, and your listeners will hate the fact that this is the truth.
David, your technology is too far ahead of time.
Not enough people have died.
Sure, yeah, I've heard that before actually.
Yes, and that's real.
And we're too busy fixing the problems we have to worry about solving it.
You see, you're right.
Until there's a crisis, until the power grid goes down, until the water supply system is infiltrated, until somebody scrambles your bank account number, how much money do you have in your bank account when one little program goes and deletes your bank account number?
Right.
Zero.
That's right.
It's all electronic.
Never to be returned.
All gone.
And what if that happens across an entire nation?
What if the entire banking system fails to function?
What if all ATMs stop working?
What do you think goes on in the back rooms of these boardrooms every day, all day long?
This is what the world, the state of the world today, and that's what that article is about.
The world as we know it may be gone.
You're absolutely right.
Look, I know a lot of people who are in really deep, high-tech areas.
I'll just say this.
Very close to someone who runs the control room of troubleshooting for one of the world's largest financial institutions.
And you know what a heck of a life he has.
Yeah, yeah.
And this person tells me that that thing, they are bootstrapping it every day.
If they walk away for six hours, it's history.
They are fixing code.
They are solving database problems.
It's like bailing water out of a sinking ship constantly.
So let me apply my theory and say that every time they fix something, it's because they didn't know it existed before as a problem.
If they just stopped...
What is it we do?
We're a banking system.
How are our computers hooked together?
We know because we've connected them.
You can actually put the process of how they link together into a new system that says if it's not that, it's wrong.
Yeah, yeah.
And these weren't even cyber attacks.
I'm not even talking about viruses.
This is just broken code.
Process failures.
Yes, exactly.
That's what we call them.
Internally.
Yes.
Yes.
So I should say to you that if you think cyber, not you, but the audience thinks this problem we're talking about cyber is bad, internal failure is even bigger.
It's nearly eight times as bad.
Whether it's a cyber attack, whether it's a piece of equipment going down, or an employee intentionally doing something wrong or accidentally doing something wrong, every one of those can be classified one way.
Something that wasn't supposed to happen.
Therefore, if you have a system that just knows what is supposed to happen, all of those other problems go away.
So what happens is when you solve it with a technology like ours, Then you solve...
People say, oh, it can't be true.
Yeah, you solve all the world's problems on computers.
Because the only reason something is wrong is they did something they weren't supposed to do.
It's like a little kid.
You teach a kid what's right, and you hope he does what's right.
But when he's wrong...
You block it as a parent if you're there.
You can't be there to teach them everything that is wrong.
We teach them what is right.
And that's where computers went wrong.
Look into your crystal ball, if you would please, David, and tell me...
How long do we have on this current path before we suffer some kind of catastrophic failure somewhere around the globe, either in the energy sector, in the military sector, banking and finance sector, logistics, something like that?
Is it imminent that something's going to happen, or could it be 50 or 100 years?
What do you think?
Well, let's talk more in days.
Days?
I would say, on my video, I said three years to catastrophic failure if a fundamental design change isn't done.
I'd say in under 18 months, catastrophic disaster.
Such as what?
What do you think is most likely?
Someone's power grid going down.
Some nuclear reactor being...
You know, I hate saying these things, but, you know, you can penetrate a nuclear reactor the same way you can penetrate a power grid.
You know, when aircraft are flying up in the sky, just like cars, we think, oh, that's great, because now the aircraft communicate back to the central command and all the engine controls and everything are being monitored by a command center.
And we go, well, that's great, because now it's not just the pilots.
We have the mechanics and we have the engineers Back at the base station.
Well, those aircraft run on Unix.
Now, what did Kaspersky's article say?
Get rid of Unix, because it has zero-day problems inside of it.
The right person can hack an aircraft in flight.
You mentioned nuclear power plants.
All that has to happen to destroy a nation is to hack into the nuke plants and stop the coolant pumps.
That's it.
Physics does the rest.
Well, I'll tell you something interesting.
The engineer, the mastermind behind this technology, and obviously I'm involved in it, but you have to have a mind as good as Einstein.
The gentleman who was the core engineer, along with hundreds of others, he was a nuclear engineer.
And he saw, and he became scared, just like Kostursky, that these places can be taken down.
And that if you were to break in and you were to get to the cooling controls or any of the other controls and just shut them down, you have a nuclear disaster.
So the epiphany of designing this came from the downing of nuclear reactors because we can never protect them from everything anyone might do.
But here's a good example.
A nuclear reactor is regulated.
Therefore, all the processes are known and they're all signed off by engineers.
That, in simple terms, is fed into the governing computer that watches it.
And if any of those regulations are broken, that means, well, let's say they won't be broken because we're looking at cause.
This would cause a regulation to fail, therefore we're going to block it.
And that's how he came up with the brilliant epiphany that was needed to say we're doing the whole thing wrong.
You know, it sounds like, David, it sounds like from what you're saying that we've already doomed ourselves.
It sounds like humanity, we may already be far past the point of no return on this.
I mean, there are, what, three or four hundred nuclear power plants in the United States alone.
Two to three hundred online at any given day, actively producing electricity.
If even ten percent of those suffered a failure to cool the reactor cores, we're talking about a chain of meltdowns that would, of course, devastate the country for a century.
Bring on someone on your show sometime that's inside the power grid industry in the U.S., and someone who's willing to talk, probably won't be able to say their name, and they'll tell you the chaos it's in.
Because we're trying to help them fix that.
But it's so chaotic, so many legacy systems, nobody knows what to do.
So they're trying to legislate how they should run it.
Well, yeah, right.
Do you think that's going to work?
Oh, man, if Washington's in charge, we are all doomed for sure.
But yeah, so here's the deal.
So in Washington, then, the name of the game is...
There are no problems.
The economy is great.
What debt?
What are you talking about?
What power grid failure?
What are you talking about?
People get elected by making false promises and lying to the public and saying everything is great and the future is going to be even better.
Nobody gets elected by telling the voters the truth.
Look at Ross Perot.
The dude told the truth and he got clobbered in the election.
Ron Paul told the truth.
They cheated him out of the election.
Anybody who tells the truth won't win, period.
So I'm telling you the truth, and I'm getting nowhere.
Well, don't run for office, buddy, because you're not going to win if you tell people the truth.
I know, and that's the sad truth about it, but you've heard it.
And I've said it.
People, you know, they can contact me through the website.
The company's called Decision Zone.
My name's David Chalk.
Search me.
You'll find me out there.
But there's a truth to this.
And it isn't about me solving the problem because other people can figure out ways to do this.
But until we go to making sure things are working the right way Instead of blocking them from everything that could be wrong, we're going to heck in a handbasket real fast.
And there are people out there way further beyond than Richard A. Clarke.
There's articles I've pulled off of CNN and all of the Reuters that say it is possibly, and they actually say is, I say possibly, too late to turn it around.
Wow.
And we are at 11 hours, 59 minutes, As we used to say in the Cold War days, and 59 digital seconds from a meltdown.
Just incredible.
Incredible.
Folks, check out David Chalk's website, davidchalkinc.com.
And David, I really hope that you can give us more information here.
I'd really like to invite your guest the next time I host the Alex Jones Show, Infowars.com.
I don't know when that is.
It might be a couple of weeks away, but I'd really like to have you on there so you can reach a national radio audience with us.
Sure.
In real time as well.
And if you want to bring on someone from the industry that claims it's safe or someone from the power grid or anything, I'll take them all on because I can give you...
It's not about me taking them on in the sense of trying to prove I'm right.
I want the world to see the truth.
And I challenge anyone, as I have in my video, come forward.
And prove.
Let's just get it to a point where we know it's not safe so that the mines will switch over from plugging the dike to building a new dam.
Yeah, but the thing is, David, even if you are proven right, it doesn't mean anything's going to change.
This is what I've learned about the world as well, that there's so much vested interest in the status quo in the current system.
There's even profit to be made from failure, and there's power to be gained from crisis.
There's an agenda There are enemies of the nation, some inside, some outside, that really want to destroy America.
And these scenarios that we discussed would feed right into their agenda.
There are so many evil, destructive players on the global landscape that love the current situation.
There's no way that this is going to get fixed without a crisis.
That's it.
That's what we said at the very beginning.
There's a brilliant book by Clay Christensen called The Innovator's Dilemma.
He's the one that coined the term disruptive innovation.
That's what we have.
And when you have disruptive innovation, everything fights against you.
Wow.
Because it changes the status quo.
Little by little we'll get there.
You know, I'm not a quitter and we're going to do it.
And thank you, people like you, that at least let the world know that there is a solution and we must encourage people to look for it at least.
They'll find it if they look.
But don't stay on the path we're on.
Well said, David Chalk.
Thank you for joining me today.
It's been a fascinating discussion and I hope to continue this talk with you later in a follow-up interview.
Thank you so much.
All right, take care.
Thanks for watching.
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