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March 23, 2018 - Health Ranger - Mike Adams
01:04:50
Zeolites - what’s REAL vs. BOGUS? Explosive interview
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Alright everybody, I'm on the phone, joined now by Clayton Thomas.
He owns two companies related to zeolites.
He describes himself as having spent 38 years around animal and human medicine.
He seems to know what he's talking about when it comes to zeolites.
Well, latching on to heavy metals through ion exchange mechanisms, for example.
So I want to have a conversation with him, and here's the background.
As you know, I published a lot of information recently, laboratory analysis of zeolite composition, of zeolite powders, which are mined out of the ground, and then they're ground up and pulverized and then sold to people as daily dietary supplements.
And I have a problem with that.
Because of the lead composition and the aluminum composition, I don't think, in my opinion, that these powdered zeolite substances should be consumed like food.
And I know a lot of you agree with me and have already thanked me for publishing that, so I thank you in return.
But here to shed more light on the whole zeolite equation or even debate is Clayton Thomas.
Clayton, thanks for joining me today.
Hey Mike, thanks for having me.
It's always a great thing when you can write an article...
And a couple articles to this matter now.
And my phone blows up and my emails and text messages blow up.
So you know both of us are doing something right.
Well, I guess so.
That's interesting you say that because these articles really were not shared very widely in social media.
It's kind of a specialty consumer that even knows about zeolites, actually, right?
It's very true.
And even with some of the research partners that I have at some of the top nuclear research labs in the country and a lot of the PhDs and MDs that I work with, They continue to state that this mineral is rarely understood for its entire capability and what it's been used for throughout history,
the mechanisms of action of how special it is, but you're dead on in the fact that there are a lot of people that are trying to take advantage of it and not process it properly because it does have some unique capabilities, but you have a mineral that is volcanically formed that's been in the environment for a couple hundred million years.
Yeah, let's start with, tell our listeners really what is a zeolite.
A lot of people don't necessarily know.
I mean, they've heard it's a special, you know, honeycomb crystalline structure with negative ions.
But beyond that, and there's really not a lot of good knowledge, how would you describe zeolites?
Yeah.
So, zeolites themselves are the class of mineral.
So, you've got different minerals within that group.
You've got, say, bentonite, which people are very familiar with as far as the clays, which are used in different manners for detoxification.
You can now get them in health food stores.
You've got Hulandite.
You have asbestos.
And most people know now that asbestos is probably not your friend.
Right.
But it has a similar functionality to some of the other zeolites for its ability to absorb water and hold water, which is why it was used in its original use in homes, not wondering about the fact that it could cause mesothelioma.
And then you've got clinoptilolite.
And pronunciation is not as important because most people call it clino or kryptonite.
It is the most studied and proven of the group.
And that is the mineral that everyone talks about, having this unique honeycomb cage structure, the natural negative charge that makes it so special.
What it is is a volcanic mineral that's created from, you know, volcanic eruptions when ash mixed in seawater with a little blue-green algae and settled on sand and silica and fossilized over a couple hundred million years.
And in this specific version for clinoptilolite, it creates this quartz-like sheet that acts like a molecular sieve environmentally.
And you can go back to the Roman times where the Romans used the mineral to line some of the aqueducts because they found the water tasted better when they did it.
And it's been used since then for animal feed, for some human consumption, but a lot environmentally for cleanup from Fukushima to Chernobyl to Three Mile Island.
It's been used at Hanford and Oak Ridge and Los Alamos.
Very, very well published and proven for its cationic exchange abilities and its ability to adsorb heavy metals, other environmental toxins, viral particles, even the upregulation of tumor suppressors when it was injected as a suspension directly into tumors.
Some of that was published in Croatia about 10 years ago.
But it's a natural occurring mineral that is very, very unique.
But because of its natural nature, the points you've mentioned is this is something that does bind heavy metals and environmental toxins in the environment.
So if you take it right out of the ground and you just grind it into a powder like you're making cocaine and you ingest it, you're putting in your body everything that's in it naturally.
And you have found some interesting results that come from that when people just do that and they don't process the zeolite to clean it up before putting it in.
Let's stop there and we'll backtrack a little bit.
Everything you just said, as far as the environmental cleanup goes, I completely agree with.
And its use in everything from absorbing ammonia in horse stalls, for example, which is where I use it on the ranch, to cleaning up nuclear fallout because of its ability to bind with cesium-137, very well known, very well proven.
I've even replicated that in my laboratory, showed that to be the case.
There's no question that it's used in some wastewater treatment, and that it's a great water filtration media, by the way.
Absolutely, yep.
If you were to filter water through zeolite material, you would absolutely remove some interesting things.
But I've got to tell you, I think that activated charcoal is far better at absorbing lead and cadmium as a water filtration media, whereas zeolite is much better at cesium.
For sure.
So, I just want to throw that out there because I've tested some of these water filters.
Yeah, and it's very, very true.
And a lot of the large water filtration tanks use a combination of both.
Because activated charcoal and carbon are very good at what they do, and clinoptilolite has its unique features as well.
So it's a matter of how to use it and what you use it in.
And the really good part with it is the science behind it is absolute.
It's been very well published, very well proven.
You can go on pubmed.gov and type in clinoptilolite, and you can find over 365 published articles on its ability to do the stuff we're talking about amongst others.
Right.
In the environment.
You talked about the agricultural aspect, and I don't know if you've used it for this yet.
It's been proven to increase yield by over 70%.
So why use dirt when you can just do hydroponics and use clinoxylolite?
It's much more effective.
I hadn't thought about using it as a grow media.
Oh, man.
That's an interesting idea.
It's amazing because you look at its natural ability to hold nitrogen and ammonia, and you...
And it holds water, as we know, which is why it's been used as an anti-diarrheal for so long.
So it's very, very good as an alternative to soil.
And when you look at the amount of heavy metals and toxins, and we can get into glyphosate and everything else that's in our soil now, why would you use a media that's going to make your food even more toxic or run the risk of being toxic when you have something that is much better at exchanging the bad stuff for the good stuff?
You know, that's a really interesting point.
Zeolites may be able to absorb glyphosate in digestion.
So if you eat glyphosate-contaminated crops and you consume granular zeolites, you may be able to block the glyphosate absorption by your body.
I'm going to have to test that.
There were some comments, and I haven't had a chance to have the conversation with him in depth yet, but Dr.
Don Huber, who's a professor emeritus at Purdue, I have to give him a shout-out because he's a brilliant guy.
He is one of the most outlandish speakers about the effects of glyphosate in GMOs, and he has made comments, and I haven't had a chance to follow up with him yet, that clenoptilite does buy in glyphosate.
Well, we'll be able to test that for sure.
Yeah, and it's one of the huge things because the glyphosate issue is way beyond what people can imagine.
The whole gluten-free thing, as you and I both know, it's not a gluten problem.
It's a glyphosate, another GMO chemical problem.
That's interesting you mention that because I thought I was the only one who was really talking about that.
You're not alone, my friend.
That's good to hear.
I've pointed that exact thing out.
Let's get to where the problems come in with zeolites that are taken out of the ground and consumed orally.
I want to share this with you as some background, too.
I began to notice this when I was actually searching.
I was in the lab.
I was doing research to create a product called Heavy Metals Defense.
This was over a year ago before the product existed.
And I was testing every known dietary mineral for its ability to bind with different heavy metals.
So I have a digestion simulator with gastric acid.
And I would put the material in the vial, and I would add a known concentration of heavy metals to it, and then I would let it undergo digestion at a certain temperature, certain time, certain amount of agitation.
And then, after that, I would filter out all the solids and just test the remaining liquid for the remaining concentration of the heavy metals.
And what I found across the board is that most substances don't capture anything, okay?
Which is kind of what you would expect.
If you put green beans in a vial and you digest them and you throw some lead in there and then you filter out the green beans, you're going to get basically the same amount of lead you started with.
And that's probably expected.
Yeah, that's pretty standard.
Right, right.
However, there are some substances that are like magnets for different kinds of elemental ions, different free metals that you would add to the solution.
And those things include, by the way, zeolite for cesium, calcium for lead, which you would probably expect if you know that lead goes into bones, and activated charcoal for mercury, for example.
And there are many other examples of this.
For example, all green grass powders, they will capture a certain amount of lead, but not that much.
Some, but not a lot.
Chlorella is known to capture heavy metals, but it's really not good at most of them.
It's good at mercury, and so-so at lead, but not so good at everything else.
Anyway, what happened with this was when I observed the zeolite results, yes, I saw a huge reduction in cesium, but then I noticed, even though I wasn't looking for it in the data, I noticed a massive increase in the aluminum and a slight increase in the lead. I noticed a massive increase in the aluminum and a Thank you.
This is what got me wondering what's going on because I was using powdered zeolites in gastric acid, remember, and it was emitting Aluminum and lead, raising the concentration of those elements in the liquid that was then tested via ICP-MS. So that's what got me started.
And this is what I want to ask you.
Do you agree or can you confirm that when you take zeolites, which are an amazing crystalline structure, if you destroy that crystalline structure, if you pulverize it, You're essentially setting free the elements that it's made of, and you're losing the properties that make it great, right?
Well, that is one really good question as far as the micronization process that a lot of companies use as far as grinding it up.
I think you do crush a lot of the crystalline structure.
As far as the release of some of the content, and that's probably and most likely the case as well, because if you are You know, grinding that crystal up and cracking some of the things you're opening, you could be opening up some of the cages so some of the binding sites are more available.
And because of, you know, their natural porous structure and being in the environment, they'll hold lead, they'll hold aluminum, they'll hold viral particles, they'll hold a whole host of things.
So if the We'll call it clenotillolite, isn't processed properly.
And in most instances, it's an acid wash that they're put through to do exactly what you're doing to simulate the GI system.
If you don't clean out the cage structure, yeah, you're going to exchange all that garbage into the body.
I would look at how much solid you're putting in, how much zeolite powder you're putting in initially and how much is left over because then you can look at dissolved solids to see if you are actually breaking down any of the mineral structure of the zeolite based on the acidity range of the GI and the stomach.
But the most likely instance is you're seeing exactly what you're testing.
The cage structure is releasing some of its contents that it was holding because it's a cationic exchanger.
And if you add an acid to it, it will release some of those bonds.
And you're seeing aluminum.
You're seeing lead.
If you were testing for other viral particles and stuff, I wouldn't doubt that you'd see some of those, but the acid should eat some of those up.
So you'll see a whole host of things.
This might help.
Yeah, go ahead.
Go ahead.
The one point to make is it's also important to understand that clenoptilolite specifically is either a calcium aluminosilicate or a sodium aluminosilicate.
And a lot of people get concerned about the alumino aspect that's part of the molecular structure of the zeolite.
There's no free aluminum there.
You know, so that isn't a concern.
If it's bound, it's locked.
But the components that are in the cage structure naturally from being in the environment, I mean, personally, from the way my company processes the zeolite, Ethically, that's a major violation to just be taking something out of the ground, maybe washing it off with water and whatnot and not putting it through a process to get all that stuff out because that is a major health risk.
And that's why we're adamant about doing what we do.
And like we talked about earlier, I'm going to make sure you get some samples of our product to do some analysis with because I want you to validate what we've done.
But The unscrupulous nature of people to sell a product, whether it's this product in this zeolite space or even other nutritional supplements or nutraceuticals that don't have safety analysis done behind them that are just putting something in a capsule or putting it in a powder and throwing it in a jar or a bottle and saying, here, take this, it's good for you.
Yeah, that's a problem.
I completely agree with you.
I think we need higher safety self-regulation in this industry.
I'm not a big fan of the feds coming in and demanding people do all these things, but I've also seen a lot of lax self-quality assessments across the industry.
So I agree with you.
I think we need more.
But you hit on a couple of interesting things.
This might...
Help support what you just talked about.
I have tested granular zeolites in very large chunks that's sold at feed stores in a product called PDZ. Yep.
And I've tested that in a vial and I found two things.
Number one, it did not give off the aluminum and lead that the ground zeolites did.
And number two, it did not dissolve at all in gastric acid.
There was no...
In other words, after the digestion, all you had is the same pellets sitting at the bottom of the vial.
Yep.
So, it's funny, because what you're saying is the products that are made for animal consumption are better than those marketed for human consumption.
Well, these, just to be clear, I think PDZ is used as a floor treatment in horse stalls.
That's scary, isn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know if farmers are feeding that to their horses.
Maybe they are, but that's not what I understand it's used for.
Nevertheless, even if they did, what my tests were showing was that the human body would not break these down.
They would just pass through you.
Yeah, and that's been the typical purpose of clinophyllolite.
When you look at kaopectate, as an example, it is a fixed suspension of So it works as an anti-diarrheal, it's passed through the colon and comes out.
And it's non-digested, and that's what's known about clenotillolite is it's a rock, it's a solid.
So even if you put it into a suspension, and if you do what many companies have done for the last 10 years, just taking literally a pinch of powder and throwing it in water in a little bottle and having it go into suspension and saying that's a liquid, well, you and I both know from a chemistry standpoint that it's absolute BS. But it's not soluble.
Yeah, it's not soluble, it's a rock.
Exactly.
Where my work has come in over the last couple of years is we actually have created a process that does hydrolyze or solubilize the clenopsilolite by one, cleaning up the cage structure first, but then breaking apart the sodium bonds to make much smaller cages.
It's like taking a honeycomb and taking apart individual cages.
That are then small enough to permeate mitochondrial membrane and the blood-brain barrier, so it's water-soluble and small.
But the natural structure is insoluble.
It's not going to leave the GI tract.
The only way that it does is if you've got a leaky gut, which many people do because they're toxic.
You know, you've got mercury, you've got glyphosate, you can go down the list.
But if the crystal fragments from the suspensions or even the powders do get into the bloodstream, they circulate out through the kidneys really quick.
It's about four hours or less that your body knows that it's not supposed to be there.
Right, right.
Wow, we've got so many areas to cover that this is fascinating talking with you about this.
It's actually a pleasure to talk with someone who can talk about these issues and understands The science behind them.
But let me present this for our listeners.
We know zeolites are very good for treating contamination problems in the environment.
Now, think about your digestive tract as being a tube from your mouth, through your rectum, and out your body that is actually the environment running through you.
Now, whatever's in your digestive tract is not yet in your blood.
So it's not part of your tissues, your heart tissue, your liver.
It's not part of your blood, right?
It's not part of your skin cells or anything.
It's in a tube that's inside you, and that is really sort of the outside environment running through you.
Now...
It makes a lot of sense to me that if you're eating contaminants such as pesticides or heavy metals or cesium, that there are lots of different things that you could take, that you could ingest and consume orally that could be passed on through your body and help bind up those things, either chemically or physically, right?
Either one.
out of your body and help you eliminate them.
You just mentioned kaopectate using zeolites as an anti-diarrhea type of treatment.
I've also, you know, I've developed a patent-pending product, Cesium Eliminator.
It does this binding with cesium in the digestive tract only.
Yep.
Does not pass through intestinal walls or anything.
But the hard part with that, though, if you look at cesium, you know, we look at cesium-137 because that's the bad boy.
And I have to commend you for the continual work you do to bring light the problems from Fukushima.
And I've spent some time over in Japan And have friends that have been dramatically affected by exposure to the events of Fukushima.
And you're hammering home the issues of cesium-137, strontium-90, and we know the half-life on iodine isn't very long, so people have a concern about radioactive iodine affecting the thyroid.
That's not the bad boy.
I agree.
Totally agree.
The two big ones are the two we're talking about.
And the problem with cesium and strontium, for that matter, is Usually, you know, the way people come in contact with it is not through oral consumption.
It's either through inhalation.
But when it is consumed, it's not something that stays in the GI. It gets into the bloodstream.
And when you look at cesium-137 as an example with where it's sequestered, and you touched on lead being known to be stored in bone, which is very well proven, cesium-137 loves cardiac tissue.
That's where it goes.
So if you look at what's been published over in Japan, they have had a massive pandemic of heart failure in the last four years in a 30-kilometer zone around Japan.
That's what they're reporting.
Strontium-90, strontium loves bone as does lead.
So you look at those and then the hard part is if you can calculate your specific exposure and you can get to it quickly enough and it was something that you ingested and you can take supplements in a quick enough time to get to it in the GI tract, yeah, it's really good.
But the problem is this stuff gets in your bloodstream really quick and then all hell breaks loose.
And when you look at like the pet cow effect, you know, that was published in 1972 as a law of physics, and this is the part that's screwing people over in which they have no clue.
Finding that small dose exposure to radiation over a large period of time is about a billion times more deadly than a single large dose.
So how do you want your death?
Do you want to take it like your vitamin C and get a little bit at a time?
Or do you want to take a big chunk and let your body pee it out?
I've got some answers.
Yeah, you've raised a lot of really good points that I've actually gone through and tested a lot of these.
Let me read you some information that I've never made public before.
There is an FDA-approved drug, which is not even really a drug, and you've probably heard of this.
It's called Prussian Blue.
It's a pigment used by painters, right?
And the FDA has approved Prussian Blue as the only drug I shouldn't say radiation exposure, but ingestion of radioactive elements.
And I just brought up the FDA page while you were chatting there, and here's a statement from the FDA. They determined that 500 milligram Prussian blue capsules can be the safe and effective treatment of the internal contamination with radioactive cesium, radioactive thallium, or non-radioactive thallium.
You'd have to eat like a thallium sandwich, I guess, for that to happen.
Yeah.
Nevertheless, it says that containing reports, data, and experiences of people who are exposed to high levels of Season 137 and were treated effectively with Prussian blue.
And it says that you, let's see, how does it work, blah, blah, blah.
It works using a mechanism known as ion exchange.
Well, that's no surprise to you and me.
One of the first things I did in this research was I purchased Prussian blue from a paint supply store.
Alright.
You're going to find this funny.
And I took the Prussian blue into the lab, and I did my digestion simulation process using a cesium spike with a non-radioactive cesium.
Right?
Oh, you're no fun.
Yeah, I know.
I know.
I don't want to glow for 29 years.
You've got to live on the edge a little bit every once in a while.
Well, here's what I found out.
Number one, I found out that Prussian blue kicks ass at absorbing cesium.
It really, really works.
And secondly, I found out that my methodology confirmed it was working correctly.
Right.
Because it was essentially supporting exactly what the FDA had found with Prussian blue.
Now, I've also found that Prussian blue has been given to animals They've treated animals who consumed radioactive isotopes in grain and grasses.
They were able to effectively treat them orally with Prussian blue, and the only known side effect was that they would crap blue.
Which is actually a party favor if you get down to it.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So, number one, we should make it public knowledge that in a real crazy crisis emergency, you can eat Prussian blue.
I'm not advising anyone to do this, okay?
But if it's life and death, this stuff actually does work.
Yep.
Secondly, the only other substance that I found in my testing of over a thousand substances that could mimic Prussian blue was zeolite.
When you look at the affinity schedule, and that was one of the things I wanted to go over, is you hit on the cesium aspect, and cesium is one of the metals that's at the top of the affinity schedule for clenoptilolite.
It's very, very good at binding cesium, and there's a lot of literature on its ability to bind mercury and cadmium and lead and arsenic and Yeah.
Well, I did find that, but let me ask you this.
Why, when I did the exact same test in the gastric acid with the pH, this is from memory, I think the pH is around 1.7 or something.
So it's not a super strong acid, right?
But when I did it with lead and cadmium and aluminum and so on, the zeolites in that test that I ran, a series of tests, it wasn't just one test, I did not find any affinity for those metals in the gastric acid.
What could account for that?
You know, without spending some time to look at it, I would suspect that being in the acid and how it affects the ionic activity between those could slow it down.
I'm not sure my chemistry background to get that deep into it wouldn't be that good.
That would be something to look at.
When working in the acid environment, the other side of the equation is how long does it stay in that acidic environment before something gets into the small intestine, the large intestine, where it works down there.
But working specifically in the acid, hard to say.
I have a good question mark about that too.
I'm wondering what's causing that and I can only report what I observed and recorded.
That goes to my first comment.
What we're dealing with is really a mineral that is extremely special in its function and its mechanisms that is still fairly well misunderstood.
We don't know everything that this is capable of doing yet and Whether we look at it from a nutraceutical standpoint, an environmental standpoint, or even a pharmaceutical perspective, because there is a lot of desire in that realm for something that does what this mineral can do if processed properly.
The only way to really get cesium is with Prussian blue.
There are really no solid mechanisms to get some of the other metals and some of the other isotopes out.
With less invasive methods.
So we're really at the precipice of some changes going on.
And I've talked to some colleagues that are at Livermore, one of the top nuclear research labs in the country, and their comments were, yeah, we've been using clinoptilolite for over 30 years.
It is probably the best solution.
There's a component out there for remediation of a lot of the heavy metals and environmental toxins for environmental remediation, whether it's water or soil.
But they've even talked about it's limited because it's an insoluble rock.
And being able to go beyond that is something they've been trying to do for 30 years and haven't done successfully.
So there is a major area of study there.
Let's also keep in mind that soil's pH is usually up around 7 or 7.2 or higher, whatever.
It's very, very different from gastric acid pH.
Even though in digestion you get more alkaline as it moves on down the digestive tract, there are a lot of pH changes, but pH could be one of the issues here.
I mean, that drives so many of the chemical reactions that we're dealing with, and soils pH and water pH is a lot more alkaline than the human stomach.
And I know with our product, when we're producing it, it is most stable in a pH of about 4.8.
So it's very possible that you might be shutting off some of its cationic exchange abilities by having it at a pH of 1.
And then once it gets out of that environment, it's like turning the charge back up to where the magnetism becomes stronger as the pH increases because that pH might be too low for it to be as beneficial.
And once it gets out of there, it gets stronger and is able to do what it does again.
Yeah, that's an interesting concept that could very well be the case.
I think that would be worth testing.
Let me ask you...
Actually, let me wrap up a couple of other points, and then I've got new questions for you.
One is just about cesium-137.
Something you said reminded me to tell you this.
The reason that...
That I'm so concerned about the oral consumption of this radioactive isotope is because in soils and plant botany and human biology, the cesium mimics potassium pathways, right?
And so it goes where potassium normally goes.
And in crops, it goes into the edible parts of the crops.
The fruits, the vegetables, the stems, the leaves, whatever you're eating, it's there because potassium is everywhere in the plants.
So the persistence of cesium-137 in soils and its ability to move through roots and go into food plants is exactly why nobody lives around Chernobyl today and why they won't be able to for another 250 years.
And...
Yep, go ahead.
You make the really good point of you look at the half-life of cesium-137.
It's about 34 years, the biological impact being about 400.
But the points that you've written about and some of your staff has written about, the people, they just don't comprehend.
They're like, well, how would I get cesium-137 exposure?
It's like, well, let's see, Fukushima didn't have a meltdown.
It had a blowout.
And a lot of that went into the stratosphere.
So when it's raining...
You're getting cooked, and your food's getting cooked prematurely.
And people aren't cognizant of that, and they're not cognizant of the fact that what happened in Chernobyl and what happened in Three Mile Island has affected the entire northern hemisphere.
And I think that the thing that gets me, and we can get into botany, is we think organic today.
It means that everything is clean and you're just not using any extra pesticides.
People don't pay attention to the fact that the soil that things are being grown in have been treated with chemicals or they've had heavy metal exposure or exposure to the environment for the last couple hundred years or beyond.
That's right.
And that's what they're also dealing with on a daily basis.
Well said.
A lot of people don't realize that...
Not paying attention to it.
A very common insecticide that was used all across North America for a long time is lead arsenate.
So you've got lead and arsenic.
And, you know, holy, hot damn, lead arsenate kills insects.
It's really good at it.
And it kills people really well, too.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Makes Little Johnny fail his IQ test, you know.
Yeah, exactly.
It's like, Little Johnny's a little slow.
Yeah, he ate some apple seeds.
Nah, sorry, that wasn't it.
Exactly.
Now, lead arsenate, I think it was banned in the 1970s, maybe?
That's a guess.
But it was banned in North America.
It hasn't been banned everywhere.
And the problem is that, as you know, lead, if you spray soils with lead, that lead never really disappears on its own.
It's not magic.
It doesn't just evaporate.
Right.
So then you grow organic crops in that lead soil.
Now you have lead in your organic whatever, certified organic, sold at Whole Foods, loaded with lead.
And it's non-GMO, remember?
Right, it's non-GMO, but loaded with lead.
So, yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that because, see, one of the things that we test a lot, we test a lot of coffee and cacao.
And coffee and cacao are both kind of related in the regions they grow and sort of their life cycle as well.
They both uptake high amounts of cadmium if it's present in the soil.
There's one other plant that takes up cadmium really well, and it's sunflowers.
So if I go to the store and I buy sunflower seed butter, I can guarantee you I'm going to find 1 to 10 parts per million cadmium.
But a little bit never hurt you, right?
And a little bit every day doesn't hurt.
Right, right.
And if I test coffee, I could find one to two parts per minute, or if I test cacao, I could easily find one part per million almost always.
But these, yeah, soils contamination is widespread, and it frustrates me when people think that that's natural, because it wasn't natural before the Industrial Revolution.
Absolutely.
We look at the rise in cancer rates and it's the thing that gets me, now that October is done, this whole pink thing and trying to find a cure for cancer, there's not many things that really piss me off more than that.
But when you go back and you look at the rise in cancer rates, it started in 1952 when we started doing nuclear testing and we nuked paradise to start with.
I mean, you can go from there to what we put in the environment and cancer rates went through the roof globally.
You go, hmm, I wonder if there's a correlation here.
I might be able to find it.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Next, I still have a couple questions for you.
So one of them is this.
And I think you'll agree with me on this, but let me run this by you, and if you disagree with anything, definitely state that.
Here's one of the problems I have with the marketing claims of the powdered zeolites that are sold as a supplement that you should eat.
In a quantity of 15 grams a day, right?
So you're supposed to take a spoonful a day, basically, throw it in your smoothie or drink it with water or whatever.
Here's the way it's presented to people, is that you need a daily detox, that this material is pulverized to a very small size that passes through your intestinal walls, gets into your blood, circulates through your blood, and then it somehow chelates metals out of your Organs and tissues, which right there should throw some red flags.
Chelation is a very specific chemical process.
And then the zeolite carries these toxic metals where they get eliminated through urine by the kidneys.
That's the promise, or the claim, I should say, of a lot of the zeolite powder marketing.
I don't believe that that...
I think that claim is exaggerated.
I don't think it's true.
I think we can...
Can we go beyond the term exaggerated?
It's the thing that gets me.
The truth in advertising, especially in this subject, because it's something that's very passionate for me.
I've spent a decade around it, and you try to bring some truth to it.
And it's like we touched on earlier.
If you take a solid, if you take a rock, and even if you grind it into a powder, it is still a rock.
It is still a solid.
So if you ingest it, there isn't any magic that happens that turns that rock...
Into something that is water-soluble where it can permeate a membrane, especially the small intestine, the large intestine, to where it can get into the bloodstream.
As we touched on, the only way that it's going to get into the bloodstream is if you have a leaky gut, and that's not a good thing either.
So just once you start there, you can say, oh, hold on, time out.
You know, the BS meter just went through the roof, and yeah, no, not going to happen.
And if you...
The other part that gets me is you have this conversation that goes on in the entire zeolite space with all the powders and all the suspensions where people are talking about, oh, well, surface area is the big thing when it comes to zeolites because the smaller the particle size, the more surface area.
Well, that can be true, yes, but if you're measuring in microns or nanometers, they're a measurement of length.
Which is good if you're measuring something for research or you're measuring for, you know, size.
But when it comes to functionality in a human body, you have to look at molecular weight and Dalton's Which is how cells work and how membranes work.
It's not a matter of size, it's a matter of solubility and molecular weight.
And there's only one product in the industry right now, and I can say that because I helped create it, that actually can function as a true liquid and you can measure the molecular weight range as a liquid through liquid chromatography mass spec analysis.
Where everything else is, they're selling dirt.
And it's like, okay, we have really special dirt.
And growing up as a kid, my family and friends told me I could sell dirt.
So hence, I do what I do now.
But I don't go around and say, okay, if you eat this dirt, it's going to end up in your bloodstream, and it's going to cross your blood-brain barrier, and it's going to get into your brain.
And then it's...
This rock is going to come out and you're going to pee it out.
Well, if you put a rock in, it's probably not going to come out through your urine.
It's going to come out through your stool because it's going to stay there because that's what kaopectate does.
So, you know, it's the point you're touching on.
It's like, okay, at what point do we want to blow the story up?
Do you want to blow it up at the beginning?
Do you want to blow it up in the middle?
Or you just want to wait for them to get it at the end and look at them and go, okay.
I'm going to give you a collective pimp slap right now, just so this doesn't get out of hand.
It's like, come on, people.
And the problem is, people run with the story, and they're like, oh yeah, this is great!
I'm like, no, come on, seriously.
Do some analysis on your own, just for a second.
Use a little bit of rational thought.
This is what has really frustrated me about, you know, there's the...
There's this sector of the natural products industry or community, which is the raw food sector that is characterized, in my opinion, as exercising the most emotionally driven, almost cult-like marketing approaches where you're just supposed to believe, you're supposed to worship the figure, the guru.
You're supposed to go with the flow and be part of the group.
It's a groupie type of mentality.
It's like a hippie commune approach to marketing.
I have an idea.
Let's sell Kool-Aid because that worked really well in the past.
Exactly.
Exactly.
But this really concerns me because I want people to think critically.
I don't want anybody to worship me or my results or my lab.
I want people, ideally, set up your own lab.
You know, I wish everybody had a little handheld Star Trek...
Device where you can wave it over something and it would tell you what it's made of.
That's my ultimate dream right there.
The democratization of science.
Every household has a liquid chromatography instrument, for example.
Yeah, your little scanner and you go beep.
Exactly.
That would be ideal.
Because I don't even like to have to prove that what I'm doing is legitimate.
And a lot of people trust me.
Some people don't.
But if they could do it themselves, then they would trust themselves.
Because then it's first-hand knowledge instead of second-hand knowledge.
What I see, though, in this industry is just people are buying this and eating it.
They're eating it daily because they believe they have faith in it.
It's a faith-based supplement.
And that disturbs me.
Yeah, and me just alike.
And I think the bigger issue, and I think that's like when we were talking earlier today, is what brought you into doing the research to find this is For consumers, when dealing in that space, there's the implied faith in the manufacturer that's producing the products, that's selling it to them, that they're doing what's right or doing what's best for their consumer base.
And what you found was actually the opposite.
So you look at that and you go, okay, if it doesn't start at the beginning, where does it start?
And then you just look at the marketing machine.
You look at the whole gluten-free thing and say, okay, somebody spun that and said, okay, what we can do is we can start putting on lettuce that it's gluten-free and tomatoes are gluten-free.
And he asked me, what does gluten mean?
I don't know, but it sounds really bad.
Right.
Yeah, good point.
I'm glad you mentioned that.
And one of the things that really...
What raised some red flags in my mind on this was I looked at the science paper that was circulated very widely among zeolite marketers and manufacturers.
And the science paper was written by a naturopath who tested 20 people, he fed them a bunch of zeolites, and then he had their urine tested for various metals that were being eliminated via urine, right?
And it just...
It didn't take me but two minutes to realize that the metals that were coming out of the urine were the same metals That the zeolites were made of, and these zeolites were being pulverized, right?
So this is how I came up with the phrase, detox, retox.
Yeah.
With rocks, by the way.
That's the big conversation I've had with people regarding some of the powders, and I think the funny part with that research study is the company that paid to have the research study done that promotes the study has a product that's in the study that was shown to be ineffective.
Or it was as ineffective as the competitors that they were trying to compare it to.
And they wanted to use that as something positive.
I'm like, hold on a second.
You just did a research study that validated that your product doesn't work.
And you think that because your product doesn't work as bad as other products don't work worse, that you think that's good?
Like, I'm not a smart guy, but that doesn't make sense to me.
But the author reached a different conclusion.
The author concluded that Really with no basis, by the way.
The author concluded that zeolite powder, taken orally, is a powerful oral chelation agent that removes heavy metals from the body.
And that just doesn't follow from the evidence.
My joke about it is that if that were true, I could sell an alcoholism detox treatment made of vodka.
Because every time you drink vodka, you eliminate vodka.
Yep.
And you'll never have a need to have another drink because your detox that you're using to stay away from the alcohol is going to keep you just calm.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So this is why I'm happy to talk to you because, and now I want to ask you about what you've created because I haven't tested what you've created.
So none of what I've printed out there even applies to your innovation.
Yep.
And you've taken zeolites to solubility.
You have hydrolyzed them.
So can you talk about what that is and what that means?
Yeah, basically what we've done is, like you've touched on, we've used a process that involves some acids and a few other steps that is able to take the sodium aluminosilicate, if you look at glenoptilolite being this honeycomb structure, The sodium are the connecting bonds that keep those cages together.
So it's basically the glue that keeps those cages together.
And through the process of hydrolysis we created, we're able to break those sodium bonds.
And some of the sodium bonds are attached to the larger structure.
Some of them are left on the fragments that are created.
And through that process of the acid, we're able to wash out the The toxins and heavy metals that are in it, and we've had independent research done on liquid chromatography, mass spec, to validate that, yes, we have created a liquid.
We know the molecular weight range of these fragments that are created, and they're extremely small, small enough to be 15 times smaller than the maximal molecular weight allowed to permeate the mitochondrial membrane of the cell.
So you still have this negatively charged cage, but you also have positively charged sodium binding sites on the outside of the cage structure, which is very unique.
And I've been working with that for a couple of years now, and we've done the analysis.
And I'm a huge proponent of independent scientific analysis.
I've got independent research partners that I've used.
We've done a lot of case studies on different issues pertaining to what the The zeolite has been proven to do, whether it's binding heavy metals or viral particles or biotoxins and whatnot.
But through our conversation and through how this came up, I'm a huge proponent of providing proof and science and truth in this industry because we do have a crystal, which is what clenopilolite really is, that is really, really special.
But the last thing that we want is people whoring it out for the wrong reasons.
Let me throw something in here that I think will clarify this for a lot of people.
You know, we talk about zeolites as a generic term almost in the same way, for example, that we talk about, well, calcium.
But there are many different forms of calcium.
Calcium orotate, calcium oxide, whatever, lots of different calciums.
My message is that all zeolites aren't the same.
So, right, let's start there.
Absolutely.
You know, and it's It's just like we touched on in the beginning, whether you're dealing with asbestos or bentonite or humandite or clenoptilolite, you're dealing with different rocks in different areas that do different things.
It's the same thing if you talk about Mercedes, that a G-class versus an S-class versus an SL or a GL, yeah, they're all Mercedes, but they all do different things, they're all made differently, and they all function differently.
And it's really important to understand that also within that class, say you're looking at an S500 of a Mercedes, then you have different ways that you can configure that same car.
So while you might be working with specifically clinoptilolite, it's how that specific zeolite is manufactured or processed that also makes it unique.
You probably don't want to have...
A Mercedes that isn't polished or painted or it's just the frame, you know, that came off the light.
You probably don't want to drive that.
You want something that's been processed and finished.
And that's pretty much where we got to with what you've been testing is, yeah, you can get a bunch of aluminum and look at it and say, okay, this is a Bentley.
No, sorry, that's not a Bentley.
You go to the Bentley dealership, that's a Bentley.
Just because you have the raw ingredients and the raw materials that make up a Bentley doesn't make it a Bentley.
Right, right.
Well said.
And let me just add that I've also believed that we should not eat rocks as food.
Unless you're cribbing.
Unless you're cribbing.
Right, right.
But if you think about even out there in the marketplace, there are calcium supplements that are made from calcium carbonate and ground-up oyster shells, ground-up limestone.
And interestingly, this is the one supplement that is most often attacked by conventional medicine because it's been linked to, I believe, a 78% increased risk of heart attack events, Yeah.
rocks but also it's almost always contaminated with lead and lead is bad for the heart so wherever we go across this industry whenever when i see someone selling rocks that are raw like you said unfinished that are mined out of the ground maybe washed off with water maybe ground up and
maybe dissolved, not really dissolved, but dissociated, we might say, in sulfuric acid, as I saw with a previous detox product, whenever I see that, I have big red flags because I know that the human digestive system is really not optimized or even designed to digest rocks.
Even for the raw foodists, you know, they just can't push it that far.
Right.
Yeah, especially.
Especially raw foodists.
Yep.
Because they often have very delicate nutritional imbalances, and they're sort of riding a fine line on a lot of things like deficiency in omega-3 oils deficiency and B12, obviously, but even zinc and iron deficiency in women is very common among raw food vegans.
Yep.
Oh, yeah.
And, you know, it's the funny part where you look at a lot of these fad diets and these different diets, and like, oh, I'm supposed to be healthy.
It's like, you look at yourself in the mirror, and if you went and did any bit of blood work or any bit of analysis, I think you're going to find the alternative, and your body's telling you, feed me!
Yes, exactly.
Now, by the way, I want to offer you something.
We're going to come up on an hour here shortly.
But I want to offer you some lab testing.
If you're willing, I'd love to test your products in a couple of ways here.
Let me mention, we have an HPLC coming online here very soon.
We have a new lab expansion that's almost complete with a new organic chemistry section.
So we have a liquid chromatography instrument that's very high-end, brand new.
And even though we don't have an LC-MS, the next time I find $400,000, that's what I'm getting.
Yep.
Okay, hold on.
We're starting in November.
Christmas list number two.
Right.
Well, I've already been told.
I want to do things like arsenic speciation, right?
So I want to have an LC-MS. It's a standalone from the current HPLC. But even with the HPLC, I can help you confirm your molecular weight.
We can also look at glyphosate and glyphosate absorption possibly by various zeolite incarnations.
A lot of things that we can do with that.
I accept your offer, and I greatly appreciate the opportunity to be successful.
And if I fail, we'll talk about that too, and we'll make it better.
Okay.
All right.
And in terms of heavy metals, we can obviously do those tests right now with the ICP-MS. So if there's anything...
That'll be good.
You sent me a document showing another lab.
For the record, I don't necessarily believe that lab yet, but...
I trust but verify, so if you'll let me test your product, I will either confirm or deny that other lab.
How about that?
We'll do it, and I will make you a promise and a guarantee that if you do the analysis and the results aren't what we expect and you want to make it public, I won't threaten to sue you.
How do you like them apples?
That's great, yeah.
Thanks a lot, man.
You're a real giver.
I actually love to work with companies to solve problems.
And off the record, behind the scenes, I've worked with a lot of companies just privately, usually just for free, to help them find problems in their formulations.
Because I want people to have clean products.
I want companies to succeed with ethical, clean products that help people heal.
I'm all about that.
You've been an advocate for a lot of that, and you do a lot to bring light to different issues and different areas, and you do a lot of the things that I love to do.
You piss a lot of people off with some of your comments and some of the things that you and your team write about.
I commend you for that, because if you're not making enemies, you're not doing anything anymore.
Well, that's absolutely true.
Yeah, well said.
And what I've learned over the years of doing lab testing is that no matter what results I release, whether they're good or bad, somebody's pissed off.
Yeah, you know, and the thing is I've learned with lab results and lab tests and, you know, and this thing called science is it's never good or bad.
It just is.
Whatever your perception is of it is your own problem because if you feel that that doesn't affect Doesn't have a positive effect on your business or your well-being and you think it's negative because these results came out, then you might want to change what you're doing.
Well said, man.
You just said exactly what I tell people.
I said, if you have a problem with it, maybe you think that my lab instrument is committing a conspiracy against you.
Yeah.
It's like we talk about conspiracies, but you know what?
I don't care about you.
Yeah, no.
Me and the ICP, we chat first.
We have a little secret chat.
Tell them the brand name of your product, and then it calculates the hatred factor into the test results.
How about that?
Yeah, it's like, I'm sorry, this thing doesn't have Bluetooth.
It doesn't communicate too well.
Yeah.
In fact, these instruments, even though they're really precise and very high-tech, they're so, in a way, uninformed about reality that you actually have to tell them what does one part per billion look like.
You have to tell it, this is what 10 parts per billion looks like.
This is what 100 parts.
And you've got to do that every time you do a run.
Because you have to recalibrate it every time.
They're a lot like a lot of the scientists that work with them.
They're very cold, they're very strict, and they lack personality.
That's funny.
You know, so you just sit there and go, okay, how are we going to communicate?
Because I obviously am having a block here, so do what you do.
And then you get the results and you say, okay, this is acceptable.
Thank you for playing.
Absolutely, yeah.
Well said.
We've spent an hour here, and frankly, this is worth it if it helps wake people up.
That's the bottom line.
Yeah, absolutely.
Bottom line, folks...
Yeah, go ahead.
No, at the end of the day, that's what it's all about.
I have to commend you for what you've done.
You don't get the listener base and the follower base of What you've generated so far without waking some people up.
So, I mean, that's why I'm here because of what you've created, what you've done.
And, you know, you created a medium where, you know, people can go to get some information to wake up a little bit and they can share it with friends.
So I appreciate what you've done and what you continue to do.
Well, and I will state also on the record here, even before I've had the opportunity to test your product, I will state that if there is a zeolite that is substantially lead-free and that does not substantially raise aluminum levels of the person taking it, I would be all for it, taken orally.
So maybe we call it a clean zeolite.
If that exists, if that's yours, then you're going to find me to be a very passionate supporter for it.
See, I'm not against anything about the function of it.
I'm only concerned about the composition of it.
Yeah, composition and efficacy.
And those are the biggest things that you have to be cognizant of.
It's not the marketing, not the hype.
It's a matter of saying, okay, is this going to be effective?
Is it safe?
And how will it work for me?
And most of all, people, I want you listening.
I want you to think for yourself.
Do not fall for hype.
Do not get sucked into something if you have questions.
And get back to basics.
You should, number one, check your diet.
What kind of foods are you eating?
If you need to detox, have you considered fasting?
Have you considered juice feasting or juicing?
Have you considered saunas?
Have you considered all these other things?
There are lots of ways to approach these problems.
Maybe there's a clean zeolite here from Clayton that's going to come out that I can get behind.
I don't know that yet.
We'll see.
We'll see what the lab results say.
But even if that falls through, there are so many other things that you can do to detox and avoid exposure to heavy metals in the first place.
So be wise about your health decisions.
Absolutely.
And I think the key component to that that many people get away from because of how they're marketed to is every point that you just mentioned are things people should try or do at some point and maybe do fairly regularly.
And it's not like for my product.
I don't tell people, I'll just use what we created because it is the best thing ever.
It's going to do everything.
No.
You know what?
Go for a walk.
Swing your arms a little bit.
Move some limbs.
You know, do some yoga, do a sauna, you know, eat well, do as many different things as you can because we're a very complex organism and there isn't one thing that you can do or one thing that you can take that is going to be all-encompassing.
You know, breathe a little bit, think a little bit, go from top down.
And, you know, find something that works best for you and then move off of that and change it a little bit.
Don't get caught in doing the same thing every day because we were never made to do that.
And I think that's a big thing for people as well.
They become so set in a routine and eventually when you stop that, you just stroke out because your body's like, well, what'd you do to me?
You have to have some variance.
You've got to change stuff a little bit.
Yeah.
Yeah, you've got to change your diet, and I'm also a big believer in rotating your supplementation.
I don't think you should ever take the same exact thing every single day for years.
You should rotate on and off, cycle it, season it.
You should eat with the seasons.
You should supplement seasonally, in essence, in my opinion.
And the cycling aspect is a big part, even with what we do.
What we've found is it's probably best to do like four or five days on, a couple days off, to do the same thing.
If you're doing some stuff, even if it's really good for the body, if you give it a couple days off, you allow the body itself to begin to rebalance and try to find homeostasis.
Because when we're looking at detoxification specifically, if you are systemically removing heavy metals and different environmental toxins and you stop doing that, you've created this massive concentration gradient in really good parts of the body.
So by allowing that process to cease for a little bit, your body starts to pull other heavy metals, other toxins out of deeper levels of sequestration of areas that you can't get into.
It could be pulling lead out of bone.
It could be pulling some cesium out of heart tissue where you can't get into.
But by allowing the body to do its natural process of creating homeostasis, you pull that into areas that when you start using your products for detoxification again, they work even more effectively and you can get more stuff out.
So if you just continually do it, you're actually blocking your body's ability to do what it wants to do.
Yeah, I like your description.
Well said.
Well, Clayton, I really want to thank you for joining me and having the courage, actually.
There's a lot of people who, for whatever reason, might be afraid to get on the phone with me and have a conversation.
I didn't attack you, right?
I mean, we had a nice conversation.
No, I think we did okay.
We didn't threaten each other with lawsuits, and we had a good conversation, so it was a good time.
Exactly, yeah.
I don't do well when people threaten me, but I do great when they just want to talk and solve problems.
So thank you for being a great person to talk to.
I appreciate the opportunity.
Hopefully we can do it again.
Okay.
Take care, Clayton.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Health Ranger Report.
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