The Leo Zagami Show - A NEW THREAT CLANDESTINE FREEMASONRY RISING
Aired: 2026-04-08
Duration: 56:28


=== Welcome to the Leo Zagami Show (04:21) ===

[00:00:02]  You Welcome,
[00:01:29]  everybody, to the Leo Zagami Show, special Wednesday edition.
[00:01:33]  Thanks to our sponsors.
[00:01:36]  So, let me thank Daniel Estes and Larry Fraschel.
[00:01:42]  Here we are.
[00:01:43]  Here we are also.
[00:01:44]  Thanks to the readers of my books.
[00:01:47]  Remember to purchase my latest book.
[00:01:50]  This is a very important book The Rise and Fall of a Frankist Monster.
[00:01:57]  A very important book for the times we are living.
[00:02:01]  Times that are demonstrating how Trump has thrown us into a war that in the end he was just not capable to fight.
[00:02:14]  And in fact, it seems like this two weeks ceasefire might be a way to just find, you know, to deflect attention and then eventually maybe limit the damage and give up altogether.
[00:02:32]  In the meantime, the Bilderberg meeting, the annual meeting is happening in Washington, D.C. this year.
[00:02:41]  And our dear friend here has made a video where he actually reveals also some of the people who are participating.
[00:02:51]  We are talking about Joseph Philip Daniels.
[00:02:53]  Here is the Bill Geber 2026.
[00:03:03]  cause massive problems to manifest at this year's Bilderberg Cult Conference.
[00:03:09]  My Father in Heaven.
[00:03:29]  Seek the face of the Lord.
[00:03:32]  And thank you so much for this brief clip to our friend who is already there in Washington, waiting for all the various people that will participate in this Bilderberg meeting that this year is taking place in Salamander, Washington, D.C., Washington, D.C., Maryland Avenue, 1550.
[00:03:57]  We have actually the right and correct address, and we know that.
[00:04:02]  There will be a lot of interest towards the Bilderberg event of this year happening here in the United States of America.
[00:04:10]  Though today we are actually talking about another threat, a threat to the common man, the common folk, which today sees the rise of clandestine Freemasonry.

=== Explaining Clandestine Freemasonry Threats (02:52) ===

[00:04:23]  So let's explain what is clandestine Freemasonry, because in the past I've often talked about so called irregular Freemasonry.
[00:04:35]  And today we need to make a distinction because in reality there is an even bigger threat here with the rise of a series of spurious clandestine lodges which are being built to simply scam the average person out of giving them a lot of money for initiation and a participation to something they might deem important for their life,
[00:05:05]  relevant.
[00:05:06]  I remember already in one of my confessions, I've told you to be very careful about all these various Illuminati groups that offer you membership in the Illuminati because, in the end, most of these groups were simply taking, actually, all of them were simply taking their money.
[00:05:30]  There is no Illuminati that is there trying to reach you through the internet.
[00:05:38]  The Illuminati eventually, or those we considered part of the Illuminati milieu, are actually rather difficult to access, to even connect with them.
[00:05:50]  So, the threat of clandestine Freemasonry, of course, has been exposed in the last few months by so called regular Freemasonry.
[00:06:04]  But let's explain what is regularity.
[00:06:07]  Let's go back into the history, rewind.
[00:06:10]  A few hundred years, and we go back to 1717.
[00:06:14]  1717, a group of Freemasons gets together at the Goose and the Greedon pub, and for the first time, they put together various lodges, pre-existing lodges, under what is known as a Grand Lodge.
[00:06:31]  Then, soon after that, in the 1720s, the Anderson Constitution is created, written by Reverend Anderson, which really lays The foundations for what is called regular Freemasonry.
[00:06:47]  And of course, after a brief battle between the ancient and the moderns, in I think it was 1813, the Duke of Sussex creates the United Religion of England, which becomes almost like the Vatican of Freemasonry because England has been the first one to formally put together this concept.
[00:07:10]  They are the ones who then claim to give the so called regularity.

=== Regular vs Irregular Masonry Rules (15:44) ===

[00:07:15]  However, in the 1870s in France, which was also a very important country in relation to Freemasonry, why?
[00:07:26]  Because France is the place where the right, which will later become known as the ancient and accepted Scottish right, starts within what is now the Grand Lodge de France.
[00:07:41]  And the Grand Lodge de France, paradoxically, Today is actually irregular in the eyes of most American obediences which practice the angels and accept the Scottish right.
[00:07:54]  So, all this is very confusing for the common folk and especially confusing for non Freemasons.
[00:08:00]  So, if somebody tells you, I want to become, you know, tell you, you want to become a Freemason, why don't you join us?
[00:08:09]  First of all, you should actually see if The form of Freemasonry they are inviting you to join is real Freemasonry.
[00:08:20]  Because, like I said, there is a lot of these spurious and clandestine bodies.
[00:08:26]  Now, here we are not criticizing or discussing the fact that Freemasonry is or not something you need to join.
[00:08:38]  I mean, this is about not being duped in a clandestine organization that is going to drain your bank account and leave you.
[00:08:49]  Fooled basically.
[00:08:51]  So, today I wanted to do this show because I saw that actually, even today, as we are speaking, there was a court case against a fake grandmaster here in California.
[00:09:03]  We talked last year about a group of irregular Freemasons active within the police who also created some kind of scandal.
[00:09:19]  When you are talking about the P2 Lodge, for example, here in the chat, the P2 Lodge was actually a regular lodge up until it was officially closed down in the early 80s.
[00:09:32]  It was actually supposed to have been closed down a little bit before that, because already from the middle of the 70s onwards, they were not officially approachable anymore.
[00:09:46]  And it was only the Grand Master who, in a way, had contact with their worship or master.
[00:09:52]  The Grand Master of a regular body like the Grand Orient of Italy.
[00:09:55]  The regular body at the time recognized by the United Grand Lodge of England.
[00:09:59]  After the P2 scandal, in fact, they became irregular.
[00:10:02]  But here we're not talking about regularity.
[00:10:06]  Regularity, like we stated until now, is a Masonic thing.
[00:10:10]  In the 1870s, the Grand Orient of France broke from the regularity approach of the Anderson Constitution and, of course, the United Grand Lodge of England, and they Laid the basis for what is known today as liberal or continental freemasonry.
[00:10:31]  Now, liberal or continental Freemasonry is not necessarily clandestine or criminal.
[00:10:42]  Last Wednesday, we have discussed this group of French Freemasons from an irregular body, which, by the way, derived from the Grand Loge Nationale de France, which was regular Freemasonry.
[00:10:58]  However, they then went into a series of criminal activities that have nothing to do with Freemasonry, and obviously.
[00:11:05]  They were not only regular, but they were acting like a clandestine or spurious group, though they were not.
[00:11:13]  So we have to explain, I repeat, to the common folk these differences.
[00:11:19]  And that's why today, first of all, I want to show you a typical example of fake Freemasonry.
[00:11:28]  This is what happens in an irregular lodge, but also in a clandestine lodge.
[00:11:37]  So this is not. irregular because it's not recognized by the regular theologian.
[00:11:44]  also spurious clandestine which does practices that completely out of the let's say masonic spectrum
[00:12:27]  this was a testimony a clip that was then picked up by a masonic podcast to just show how crazy these people behave in their lodges They often mix elements of black magic, of voodoo, or all kinds of practices that, I repeat, have nothing to do with what happens in regular Freemasonry.
[00:12:55]  Now, let me show you the testimony of somebody who is a regular Freemason.
[00:13:02]  Who happened to meet by chance a clandestine Freemason?
[00:13:09]  I keep on calling them at the time, and that is my error, irregular.
[00:13:12]  But when it comes to clandestine and spurious, we should make this distinction, first of all, that not all the irregular, because they're not recognized by the United Lodge of England, are at the same time clandestine, spurious, and dangerous.
[00:13:28]  So we need to make that distinction.
[00:13:31]  Up, old fashioned Masonic podcast.
[00:13:33]  I have to kind of share something interesting.
[00:13:36]  I was on a layover, catching a flight in, and sitting down next to a person that had a Masonic ring.
[00:13:42]  And like I do with a lot of folks, tell me about your ring.
[00:13:48]  So he goes into kind of talking about the ring and this, that, and the other.
[00:13:53]  So I said, Oh, well, what's your Grand Lodge?
[00:13:56]  And he says, The Most Warshal Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Georgia.
[00:14:01]  I said, Oh, okay.
[00:14:03]  That's great, cool one.
[00:14:05]  Who's your guys' grandmaster this year?
[00:14:07]  Okay, so why did this guy probably say most Prince Saul worship a lot?
[00:14:14]  Because of the fact that up until the 90s there was no recognition.
[00:14:19]  Then it was the Iron Age of England that had to step in and impose the recognition of the Prince Saul Grand Lodges, which are basically African American lodges that were constituted by a free man,
[00:14:34]  Prince Saul, who then Founded African Lodge number one, and from that moment onwards, they spread the tentacles of this African American form of Freemasonry, which, up until, like I said, the early 90s, was deemed irregular, even if they were completely regular and honest and transparent about all their practices, and they were nothing to do with clandestine or spurious Freemasonry.
[00:15:04]  But then something else happened that because Regularity arrived, not all of them were happy.
[00:15:14]  Some of them also had walked out and created their own spurious and clandestine Masonic obedience, often to make money or to put together people who wanted to make money and for reasons that had nothing to do with the real Freemason.
[00:15:33]  In any case, this guy was caught by a regular Freemason in personificating.
[00:15:40]  A Prince Saul Freemason because that was the easiest way after he was recognized because of his Masonic ring.
[00:15:50]  I forget, you know, and we're talking, and so he gets up and it was a fine conversation.
[00:15:56]  There's no Masonic intercourse, just having him tell me about his ring, right?
[00:16:01]  So he gets up, goes to the restroom, and 10 15 minutes come by.
[00:16:06]  He comes back and he sits next to me and he said, Hey, I want to shoot straight with you.
[00:16:13]  I'm actually with.
[00:16:15]  The most watchful Grand Lodge of insert name.
[00:16:18]  I said, So why'd you tell me Prince Hall?
[00:16:21]  He said, You know, as we were talking, I figured out who you were, and I just didn't want to have any sort of beef in public.
[00:16:29]  Let me fast forward.
[00:16:31]  He said, I had no idea up until about six months ago that we were considered irregular.
[00:16:38]  Didn't use the word clandestine or bogus, but irregular.
[00:16:41]  And he's like, I'm looking to get out.
[00:16:44]  I said, what took you six months?
[00:16:45]  He said, so I started doing some research.
[00:16:48]  Fast forward, I promised the guy I wouldn't give him his name, give his name outright.
[00:16:53]  Told him I'd help him get hooked up with a legit Grand Lodge.
[00:16:58]  The takeaway from that conversation was this even some of the men in these clandestine organizations, they're representing themselves as Prince Hall, knowing damn well they're not Prince Hall.
[00:17:13]  That should say a lot.
[00:17:14]  If you can't be honest about the organization that you're in, be honest.
[00:17:18]  Be loud and proud, but why do it under somebody else's name?
[00:17:24]  This is what's fascinating to me about this clandestine world that was brought to us, brought to this channel.
[00:17:32]  Is even some of the guys they know they're bogus, and if they feel like they might get sniffed out, they'll use a different Grand Lodge.
[00:17:42]  Just thought I'd share the story, and we wish this man luck in the future having a legitimate Masonic experience.
[00:17:51]  Okay, so.
[00:17:53]  I repeat, the show of today, regardless of the fact that you support or not support Freemasonry, is about clarity, it's about showing the people who are out there that there is a danger in getting offered the entrance in any lodge without the certainty of joining real Freemasonry.
[00:18:20]  Because today, thanks to the internet, unfortunately, these realities have spread like a virus.
[00:18:27]  Like wildfire.
[00:18:29]  This is the testimony of a former fake Mason.
[00:18:36]  Carly's ass whoopings, and I did all of this for nothing.
[00:18:40]  Let's hit the old rewind button and let's talk about how you entered Masonry.
[00:18:46]  My Masonic journey was tainted.
[00:18:49]  I was a young Thundercat, didn't know anything about masonry, and I actually joined a clandestine lodge.
[00:18:56]  And he pulled out the book.
[00:18:58]  And that's when I found out the difference between a clandestine lodge, which I was at the time, and a legitimate lodge.
[00:19:08]  And I started, so once I found out about that, I questioned all the brothers at the client.
[00:19:16]  So I took all these ass whoopings and I did all of this for nothing.
[00:19:19]  And I'm not, you know, because the 25th landmark in masonry says that I can travel to any well governed lodge.
[00:19:26]  And so that's what I thought I was doing.
[00:19:27]  Come to find out, I wasn't the one that was governed.
[00:19:29]  I joined Lebanon Lodge 837, started all the way over.
[00:19:33]  And there I found that the lodge, the ceremonies, they actually meant more because they were done with dignity and respect.
[00:19:41]  And shout out to past master Foreman, Bill Foreman, because I was like, wait a minute, what's the initiation like?
[00:19:49]  Because I'm not taking no more asshoppers.
[00:19:50]  And those were my exact words.
[00:19:51]  He said, brother, we don't do that here.
[00:19:53]  We do things with dignity and respect.
[00:19:56]  And even when I was going through the ceremonies, my fists were clenched because I was having.
[00:20:03]  Hey, because you still don't trust it.
[00:20:05]  So, this guy really was traumatized.
[00:20:08]  I mean, in some forms of clandestine Freemasonry, the worship of masters or the grandmasters of these organizations actually impose on the apprentice things that are out of this world.
[00:20:27]  They also take advantage, of course, of their money, but also of their connections, and they impose practices which are completely Amazonic.
[00:20:40]  So that creates a lot of confusion amongst people who are now watching us and saying, but then are they good Masons and bad Masons?
[00:20:52]  Now, unfortunately, in the last few decades, even regular Freemasonry seems to have been infiltrated left, right, and center by people who don't conduct themselves with the ethics and morals of our fathers, of our grandfathers.
[00:21:11]  This is pretty clear.
[00:21:13]  I stopped going to Masonic lodges here in the United States after I saw what kind of people were joining.
[00:21:23]  People that followed Alistair Crowley, people that followed Satanism, people that followed the occult are now taking control of these lodges.
[00:21:37]  I received just the other day from a former brother from a lodge in Norway.
[00:21:47]  This post, this post that is in Norwegian, but I can summarize for you this post that talks about the very much regular Norwegian Freemarer, as they say, they call them like this the Norwegian Freemason Granolodge, which is the regular one that practices the Swedish right.
[00:22:12]  And in this post, though they are a regular obedience, It is basically said that nowadays the new members of the craft are doing things that are illegal, things like finance credit scams, even selling black market steaks, meat.
[00:22:39]  I mean, we are talking about Norway.
[00:22:41]  I mean, it seems like they're behaving like a spurious and clandestine form of remission when the Masonic obediences of the Scandinavian countries.
[00:22:51]  Because of their Swedish right, which lets only Christians inside their lodges, they are always deemed as superior, as part of the elite of Freemasonry.

=== Internal Politics and Degree Conflicts (14:29) ===

[00:23:00]  But it says here that they are protecting pedophiles, that they are letting prostitutes in their lodges, that they are doing things that are completely contrary.
[00:23:13]  Regularity.
[00:23:13]  So, this is regular Freemasonry today.
[00:23:17]  In a country like Norway, one will expect more, but unfortunately, things are not going the right way.
[00:23:25]  When it comes to irregularity and then the difference with clandestine Freemasonry, you know, I was, when I arrived here in California, they claimed that I had to repeat my initiation.
[00:23:36]  I said, sorry, I was initiated in the United Geology of England.
[00:23:40]  Are you more regular than the guys who give you the regularity?
[00:23:43]  And after that, I said, it was just like I had to pay and pay again for initiations I already received in the past.
[00:23:53]  I said, forget about it.
[00:23:55]  That's why, then, it was one of the reasons, not the only one, that led me to leave and not have further connection with the local Freemasons here in the Coachella Valley or in Yucca Valley or in other places here in California which I've connected with.
[00:24:18]  So, once again, there is a new threat, and it's not a threat that is maybe relevant to the elite, because the elite has always had their own exclusive lodges, even within regular Freemasonry.
[00:24:37]  There are lodges that operate outside of the so called Masonic standards.
[00:24:48]  And now, I repeat, what I'm trying to explain today to the common folk is that there is a bunch of people that are literally frauding other people using Freemasonry in the most fraudulent way possible, creating fake lodges.
[00:25:12]  And it's not about the regularity or regularity, it's about actually criminal behavior at times.
[00:25:20]  I think this guy here, who is a 33 degree, has explained the whole thing in a very good way.
[00:25:28]  Check it out.
[00:25:30]  If I told you that this symbol is being hijacked, right now, across the globe, there are groups posing as Freemasons, operating entirely outside the bounds of the legitimate Masonic community.
[00:25:43]  They wear our aprons, they wear our regalia, they mimic our ceremonies, but worst of all, they take the money of well intentioned men, promising them a brotherhood.
[00:25:53]  That they have no power to deliver.
[00:25:55]  Clandestine masonry.
[00:25:57]  Let's talk about it.
[00:26:06]  Welcome to the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry channel.
[00:26:08]  I'm Maynard Edwards, 33rd degree.
[00:26:10]  On this channel, we talk about the philosophy, the symbolism, the history, and the fun of Freemasonry.
[00:26:15]  Hit those like and subscribe buttons below if you want to follow along.
[00:26:19]  If you're a Mason or you'd like to be, this is a good place for you.
[00:26:22]  Clandestine Masonry.
[00:26:23]  It is not just a matter of internal Masonic politics or conflict, but sometimes it can seem that way.
[00:26:30]  Clandestine Masonry, true clandestine Masonry, is an absolute direct threat to the reputation of our craft.
[00:26:36]  And in many cases, it's fraud.
[00:26:57]  In the Masonic world, we throw terms around kind of loosely sometimes, and that leads to confusion.
[00:27:02]  So let's sort of level set and straighten out the record on three very different categories, unrecognized, Irregular and clandestine masonry.
[00:27:13]  These are all things that are sort of outside the norms of legitimate mainstream Freemasonry.
[00:27:18]  Now, before anybody comes at me in the comments, just know like all things in Freemasonry, there are always exceptions to certain rules.
[00:27:25]  So I'm going to be painting with a pretty broad brush here just to get the ideas across.
[00:27:29]  Let's first talk about unrecognized Freemasonry.
[00:27:32]  This means a Grand Lodge that is not recognized by your Grand Lodge.
[00:27:37]  They are not in amity.
[00:27:38]  In other words, they don't have a Formal agreement of recognition.
[00:27:42]  For whatever reason, sometimes political, sometimes administrative, these two Grand Lodges are essentially not friends right now.
[00:27:50]  Like, for example, the Grand Lodge de France.
[00:27:53]  The Grand Lodge de France today is the archenemy of regular Freemasonry, the Grand Lodge of England.
[00:27:58]  For the last 100 years, they have actually, a little over 100 years, they have been in the irregularity status.
[00:28:07]  In fact, they joined forces with with the Grand Orient of France and other like-minded bodies to create what is known as the Clipsas, which is like the stronghold of continental progressive liberal Freemasonry.
[00:28:23]  They are not irregular in the way they work.
[00:28:30]  Their Freemasonry in their lodges.
[00:28:32]  Sometimes they can, of course, there are those lodges who run rogue, all kinds of things.
[00:28:39]  But generally speaking, you will not see a lot of difference between regular and irregular.
[00:28:48]  Instead, it's like he's stating unrecognized because those lodges are part now of a club, let's say, that was created after the 1870s.
[00:29:03]  After the breakup between the Grand Orient and the United Grand Lodge of England, which then, of course, was aggravated by the fact that the Grand Orient of France wanted to let into their lodges a lot of atheists.
[00:29:19]  Then the same thing happened in the Grand Lodge de France more and more.
[00:29:24]  And then we had even Alistair Crowley, who was initiated apparently in the Grand Lodge de France when it was still regular, but then soon after was irregular.
[00:29:35]  So, this is very important what he's saying, so you can have a very clear understanding of what is happening here.
[00:29:43]  They can't sit in your lodge, you can't sit in their lodges.
[00:29:46]  These are legitimate Masons, but for right now, they are outside of each other's circles.
[00:29:51]  Now, sometimes this happens because there's conflict between two grand lodges.
[00:29:55]  They disagree about something, they decide to withdraw recognition, and then they are unrecognized.
[00:30:00]  But again, these are legitimate Masonic organizations.
[00:30:02]  They just don't have that formal agreement with one another.
[00:30:05]  So, that is unrecognized Freemasonry.
[00:30:08]  Next is irregular Freemasonry.
[00:30:11]  This refers to a Masonic body that may or may not have originally held a valid charter from another Masonic organization or may at one time been recognized by the rest of the Masonic community, but for some reason they have deviated from what we call the ancient landmarks of Freemasonry.
[00:30:28]  In other words, these are the general rules that most Masonic lodges are governed by.
[00:30:33]  The most common examples of this are the Grand Orients or the Masonic jurisdictions that have removed the requirement for a belief in a supreme being or Grand jurisdictions that Which leaves us with the real problem.
[00:30:55]  True clandestine Freemasonry.
[00:30:57]  A clandestine lodge, now I mean a true clandestine lodge, is one that has no legitimate Masonic authority whatsoever.
[00:31:04]  It possesses no charter from any regular Grand Lodge in the world.
[00:31:09]  It has no connection or lineage to any original Grand Lodge anywhere in the world.
[00:31:14]  These are often pop-up groups started by individuals for personal profit or ego.
[00:31:18]  Sometimes they're aggravated with a legitimate Masonic organization.
[00:31:22]  So they decide, I'm just going to go buy some regalia and start my own thing.
[00:31:26]  A lot of times these are used as a cover for nefarious activities, scams, and fraud.
[00:31:31]  And they are quite simply bogus, as we say.
[00:31:34]  These are counterfeits preying on men who are legitimately seeking light.
[00:31:39]  This is not a theoretical problem.
[00:31:42]  In your town, right now, wherever you are in the Masonic world, there are clandestine lodges not far away.
[00:31:48]  And there are men who were interested in Freemasonry that were duped into joining these fake organizations.
[00:31:54]  And it happens every single day.
[00:31:56]  A lot of times.
[00:31:57]  It happens every single day, guys.
[00:31:59]  And I repeat, with the advent of the internet, this kind of thing has got worse and worse.
[00:32:06]  So while there is, of course, a growing party of people who is always accusing Freemasonry of all the ills of the, you know, of all the wrongdoings of the planet, and that is, of course, Because of some Freemasons who have unfortunately done the wrong things and have even used Freemasonry to do the wrong things.
[00:32:31]  We had the example in Italy of the P2 Lodge, just to make an example, but there are other cases.
[00:32:38]  Now, the latest case is that the Lodge in France, which also was running a hit squad aside from the Lodge.
[00:32:47]  I mean, they were actually operating as contract killers.
[00:32:50]  I mean, that's insane.
[00:32:53]  But Apart from all this, what we're trying to make you understand here is that you're never going to be invited to become a Freemason on Facebook or on other social networks.
[00:33:07]  It doesn't work that way.
[00:33:09]  There needs to be a face to face kind of situation whereby you are sponsored by at least two Freemasons that will vouch for you.
[00:33:22]  So, if it is too good to be true, it's possibly a fraud.
[00:33:29]  There has been also in the last few years, like I explained from volume one of my confessions onwards, and I said that immediately when I started my confession series, that there is unfortunately a growing number of bogus Illuminati orders, people from Nigeria, scammers from Nigeria, who have sold Fake Illuminati diplomas for up to two,
[00:33:55]  three, four thousand dollars to people who wanted, you know, to have part in the Illuminati because they think that by joining these groups, Masonic or Illuminati or other, they will suddenly achieve fame or notoriety.
[00:34:14]  Oh, I'm a singer, I want to become famous, I'm gonna join them and then I'm gonna become more famous.
[00:34:21]  Guys, it doesn't work that way.
[00:34:23]  These mystery schools, in essence, if You join them with the right and the honest people, they will not promise you such things.
[00:34:35]  They will simply promise you to make you a better man, a better person, but they will never tell you you're going to become rich if you join our lodge.
[00:34:45]  If they do that, then there is something completely wrong behind it all.
[00:34:50]  In Volume 8 of My Confessions, for those who have read this great book, Volume 8 of My Confessions, I know it's a big book, but it's a very important book.
[00:35:01]  And in one of my chapters that discusses the death of Michael Jackson, I explained how the doctor who eventually led to his death was made in one of these clandestine, masonic, spurious obediences a grand officer in the health department.
[00:35:24]  There is no such title, grand medical officer.
[00:35:28]  There is no such title.
[00:35:29]  But they created that title.
[00:35:31]  in this spurious and dangerous form of Freemasonry, which apparently then was linked to the death of Michael Jackson.
[00:35:39]  So please listen to what we are telling you today.
[00:35:43]  If you are approached by somebody on the internet who tells you, join the Illuminati, join the Freemasons, join this, join that, forget about it because 90% of these things today are frauds.
[00:36:02]  Sometimes these men are paying thousands of dollars and enduring all kinds of degrading treatment in addition to having their bank accounts drained.
[00:36:09]  To help us understand the human side of this, I recently spoke with worshipful brother Brian Bird.
[00:36:15]  He's the host of the very popular old fashioned Masonic podcast.
[00:36:18]  He's had plenty of conversations with men who were unknowingly initiated into these clandestine groups.
[00:36:24]  Here's a clip from our interview and what Brother Brian has learned from some of these encounters with clandestine Masons.
[00:36:30]  I've heard the word clandestine, and just like you alluded to, I'm like, why would anybody want to fake this?
[00:36:36]  Come on in.
[00:36:37]  What we've learned on our interviews is such a world of buying degrees, paying for 30 second degrees.
[00:36:47]  Or 33rd degrees, anywhere between $715,000.
[00:36:53]  And what we've determined, it's at least in the United States, it's predominantly in the African American community.
[00:37:00]  It is.
[00:37:01]  It's 97%, you know, forget the number.
[00:37:04]  Somebody's going to fact check me and say it's 95%.
[00:37:07]  Predominantly.
[00:37:08]  It's a high, high number, right?
[00:37:10]  And it's really fascinating.
[00:37:13]  And so when we've interviewed guests, they said, you know, There are times where we either had a background that we didn't think that they would accept, but these guys said that they would.
[00:37:25]  Or I wanted to be in a lodge where somebody looked like me.

=== The Cost of Fake Degrees (15:57) ===

[00:37:29]  And okay, I get that.
[00:37:32]  But the interesting thing and some of the conversations that I've had with guests is so you wanted a second chance.
[00:37:41]  Great.
[00:37:42]  You wanted to be in a lodge where somebody looked like you.
[00:37:45]  I get it.
[00:37:46]  But this predatory, I feel like.
[00:37:49]  Here, let me show you.
[00:37:51]  This is.
[00:37:52]  The doctor, Dr. Murray, who basically killed Michael Jackson, and he is also a member of the United Most Worship of Scottish Right Grand Lodge of Texas, which is a completely clandestine and spurious body.
[00:38:17]  I explained the many connections of the African-American community, which this brother is bringing up.
[00:38:25]  And I hope that it makes people aware of certain problems.
[00:38:31]  In my opinion, you want to talk about attacking your own community and defrauding your own community.
[00:38:37]  That's the opposite of what I think that I would want.
[00:38:41]  If I'm really trying to make a change and forget if I agree with the lineage and all that, why would I want to?
[00:38:48]  Defraud my own community.
[00:38:50]  And that's a whole nother layer of just.
[00:38:54]  Yeah, because I, and we should probably explain to folks who are not up on this.
[00:38:58]  So, what will happen very often is that these clandestine organizations will say that, you know, all the initiation fee is, you know, thousands of dollars.
[00:39:06]  And then monthly you have to pay thousands of dollars.
[00:39:08]  And, you know, I, like you, I kind of at first didn't take it seriously.
[00:39:12]  And then a couple of years ago, it was right before the holidays.
[00:39:16]  It was, this is pre COVID.
[00:39:17]  So, it's been more than a couple of years ago.
[00:39:19]  This gentleman came into the house of the temple.
[00:39:20]  We get brothers come in all the time.
[00:39:22]  And if I see someone that, you know, I'll stop and chat with them and introduce myself.
[00:39:26]  This gentleman is in the library and he's talking to one of our librarians and trying to inquire about how he can join us and get away from where he is.
[00:39:34]  And I started talking to him.
[00:39:35]  And he's from the Washington, D.C. area and had joined a lodge and was, he explained to me and he showed me his dude's gun.
[00:39:44]  He said, you know, the master says I have to pay this much more money or I have, you know, and I have to divorce my wife and all these other crazy, like just, and this man, Had spent several years trying to become a master mason.
[00:39:58]  He finally earned enough money to pay to become a master mason, and it was some god awful figure like 10 grand that he had to pay just to become a master mason.
[00:40:06]  And then, um, but then you know, they were telling him he had to leave his wife and all because she didn't approve of the lodge, and so he wanted to join our organization.
[00:40:16]  So, I had to kind of very delicately explain to this brother or this man, he wasn't a brother officially, you know, that he was so, like, somebody's also pointing out in the chat.
[00:40:28]  I mean, if they ask you for more than $100 for your initiation, in some countries they ask a little bit more, in Italy, two, three, four hundred at times, which is, I think, also because they pay way too much their grandmasters.
[00:40:43]  In any case, in England, there was a hundred pounds.
[00:40:47]  And I think that the price, more or less, is that.
[00:40:51]  Then you have the yearly dues, which are usually approximately between $60 and $80.
[00:40:59]  At least in the United States, but maybe in Europe, it can range from $100 to $200, $300, $400 even in Italy.
[00:41:11]  But all this is very different from what these people are paying.
[00:41:17]  Because people who join these clandestine forms of Freemasonry, which are literally ripping you off, they will ask you for thousands of dollars.
[00:41:27]  Thousands of dollars every year, thousands of dollars for each initiation.
[00:41:35]  It's sad that this is happening, but it's also sad because of the ignorance that unfortunately most people have towards this topic.
[00:41:46]  In my books, I've tried to be very detailed about these things and explain them in a way that the common folk can have an understanding.
[00:42:02]  Now, there is also those forms of Freemasonry which are Irregular and clandestine by choice.
[00:42:12]  I've discussed them often in my books.
[00:42:15]  These are basically lodges made of very wealthy, very rich people, members of the elite who don't want to, you know, go to your official, let's say, lodge.
[00:42:36]  They want something more.
[00:42:38]  You know, more elitarian.
[00:42:41]  And so they have the money, they have the connections, they at times can even manage to get hold of, let's say, an official form of somebody within regular affirmation to give them that possibility because it happens, it can happen in some countries.
[00:43:04]  But all this is very different from what regular affirmation is supposed to be.
[00:43:12]  And definitely here in the United States of America, it's much more rare that you have lodges that operate within a regular Masonic obedience in a way that is not really respecting all the precepts of regularity.
[00:43:35]  But let's continue to listen to these Freemasons so we understand a little bit more about this growing problem, this new threat.
[00:43:46]  So, they have clandestine Freemasonry rising, unfortunately, in the age of the internet.
[00:43:53]  Part of a clandestine group.
[00:43:54]  And I mean, he was just heartbroken.
[00:43:56]  And my heart just went out to him because you could tell he was a pretty good guy and just wanted to belong to a good organization and thought that that's what he was doing.
[00:44:05]  And really, they were just kind of taking his money and more or less abusing him sort of mentally and emotionally.
[00:44:10]  And it was really just unfortunate.
[00:44:12]  And it's out there.
[00:44:13]  And those are some of the guys that you're talking to.
[00:44:17]  It's amazing.
[00:44:18]  So we kind of jokingly, we started to, every time somebody would come in and say, Hey, I found out that I'm clandestine, I'm getting out, and which kind of helped directly.
[00:44:27]  So we're like, Oh man, I bet we're here.
[00:44:29]  So we went back and started checking the emails.
[00:44:32]  We have confirmed over 30 that we've helped get into different grand lodges.
[00:44:37]  Confirmed.
[00:44:37]  That's great.
[00:44:38]  In the United States alone, whoever's listening, grab onto your seats.
[00:44:42]  There are over 750 bogus grand lodges.
[00:44:48]  Fake.
[00:44:49]  45.
[00:44:49]  I've been Houston alone.
[00:44:51]  It's just fascinating.
[00:44:54]  It's fascinating and it's incredible.
[00:44:56]  But what happens is just what has been happening for a long time in Italy, for example.
[00:45:02]  In Italy, where already there is the influence of both regular English style Freemasonry as well as French continental Freemasonry, because historically both French and English Freemasonry has influenced Italy.
[00:45:20]  And then on top of that, In the last few decades, there has been more and more schism, and now we have hundreds of irregular and clandestine forms of Freemasonry.
[00:45:37]  So it's not surprising, but I wasn't expecting such large numbers here in the United States.
[00:45:47]  To me, the scale of this and so many of these men are taken advantage of.
[00:45:53]  That's the most unfortunate thing is that to people who are outside the craft, they don't understand that, you know, there's no copyright on the square and compasses.
[00:46:03]  Anybody can slap it on anything.
[00:46:04]  A lot of these organizations, the thing that establishes them, Is they'll put this stuff on their website and say, Well, here's all of our documents.
[00:46:13]  And they're very clearly forged in some cases.
[00:46:16]  You can get a Wix website, throw a website up, throw you some social media, get you some Etsy charters, and boom, you got a grand lodge.
[00:46:27]  Which seems like who would do that, but it is being done all the time.
[00:46:32]  It's just fascinating.
[00:46:33]  Thanks, Brian, and the whole crew at the Old Fashioned Masonic Podcast.
[00:46:36]  And I've got a whole conversation with Brother Brian, and you can check that out in the links below when you're done watching this video.
[00:46:42]  But as Brian alluded to in our chat, many of the men involved in clandestine masonry, they're victims.
[00:46:48]  They are not villains.
[00:46:49]  They wanted to be real Freemasons.
[00:46:51]  They wanted what we had.
[00:46:52]  They wanted brotherhood.
[00:46:53]  They wanted a chance for self improvement.
[00:46:55]  They wanted a place alongside other good men in their community.
[00:46:58]  So we have to then separate those Freemasons who deliberately act in a clandestine way.
[00:47:13]  Often part of irregular Freemasonry, or even part of regular Freemasonry, which doesn't behave in such a regular way, like we were talking about the group in Norway, the Masonic obedience there in Norway.
[00:47:32]  But now the problem here is that you have on the one side the elite.
[00:47:43]  That, of course, at times wants to have their very exclusive lodges in their big villas and stuff, you know, like Berlusconi used to have back in the days.
[00:47:53]  He had a lodge called the Lodge of the Dragon.
[00:47:56]  And he claimed that this lodge was very exclusive and he only invited his Mason friends to participate in the inner workings of this.
[00:48:10]  But that's what has been claimed by people who actually.
[00:48:15]  Say they have witnessed it, so it's not just some kind of tale.
[00:48:20]  There is probably other people that have exclusive lodges, some royal families, and stuff.
[00:48:31]  And of course, these are not the clandestine lodges we're talking about today.
[00:48:37]  Those we're talking about today are the ones that are taking money from the common man, from the person who is ignorant of Freemasonry, the person that is duped to join these clandestine bodies.
[00:48:53]  And in fact, last year we spoke about one of these groups.
[00:48:57]  And I remember there is also an article which.
[00:49:02]  Which I want to show you once again that makes you understand how these fake Masons at times become also part of something else.
[00:49:19]  In this case, the Los Angeles Times said fake Masonic police aim to improve relations with black community, lawyers say.
[00:49:27]  So they defended themselves, claiming that they were actually helping the black community.
[00:49:34]  They were not only.
[00:49:35]  Not only clandestine Masons, they were also impersonating police officers, claiming to be descendants of the Knights Templars.
[00:49:47]  This is insane, but unfortunately, there are people who fall for it.
[00:49:55]  But they were led astray by liars and, frankly, scam artists.
[00:50:00]  So, as true Freemasons, what do we do when we encounter someone we suspect may be a member of a clandestine organization?
[00:50:08]  The first thing is we don't talk about Freemasonry with them.
[00:50:11]  And above all, if they invite you to sit in their lodge or they ask to sit in yours, that can't happen.
[00:50:17]  You can't hold Masonic communication or vouch for a man who does not hail from a regular, recognized grand jurisdiction.
[00:50:24]  And that's your primary obligation.
[00:50:26]  It doesn't mean you can't be friendly.
[00:50:27]  It doesn't mean you can't chat with them about the weather.
[00:50:30]  It just means you have to treat them the same way you would treat anyone else who isn't a Mason.
[00:50:34]  Because even though they may think they are a Mason, they are not Masons.
[00:50:39]  Second, you want to whisper good counsel.
[00:50:41]  You don't want to berate anyone.
[00:50:43]  You don't want to embarrass anyone.
[00:50:44]  As we said, many of these guys, they don't know that they are clandestine.
[00:50:49]  They went to join a lodge.
[00:50:50]  They found one nearby and they joined.
[00:50:52]  They had no idea about recognition.
[00:50:55]  So if you're in a conversation with this man, ask about his lodge or his grand lodge and how it might be connected to the rest of the Masonic community.
[00:51:03]  After that, the conversation will kind of progress in a natural fashion.
[00:51:07]  And Brother Brian has done this on his channel a whole bunch of times.
[00:51:10]  It's a simple internet search on your phone and you can show him how perhaps his group is not recognized by the rest of the Masonic community.
[00:51:18]  Now that might be upsetting, but at least you're giving this man the truth.
[00:51:23]  And maybe it will turn into an opportunity for him to be a part of a legitimate Masonic organization in the future.
[00:51:31]  Third, that's what you do.
[00:51:32]  You point them to a legitimate Masonic source.
[00:51:35]  Direct him to the website of the Grand Lodge or the Prince Hall Grand Lodge in your state or province.
[00:51:40]  Let him see for himself what true Freemasonry is.
[00:51:45]  This is why all of us in the Masonic community, for our lodges, our Grand Lodges, our valleys, our chapters, whatever, all of our websites and Facebook pages, Instagram pages, all the socials, all that stuff, all these things always, always need to be up to date.
[00:52:00]  There are men who have no idea about Freemasonry.
[00:52:03]  who decide that they have an interest in it, they go looking for it, and they're just gonna go to Google.
[00:52:07]  They don't know how to vet good information from bad information.
[00:52:10]  So the only way we can beat bad information is to just pile on good information.
[00:52:15]  So if your lodge website is not up to date, if your Facebook page is all banged up, fix it.
[00:52:20]  And finally, you have to be compassionate with these guys.
[00:52:24]  Realize that this man has been fooled and maybe wasted a bunch of time and money, and that could be kind of hard to accept.
[00:52:31]  But if he wants to become a true Freemason like us, There are legitimate paths forward for him to do so.
[00:52:38]  That process is known as healing.
[00:52:40]  And typically a lodge has to work with the Grand Lodge in their area to make that happen.
[00:52:45]  And it is a little bit complicated and it's different from Grand Lodge to Grand Lodge.
[00:52:49]  So I don't want to advise on that any further than to say if you run into someone from Clandyland, as Brother Brian says, the best thing you could do would be to steer them to your Grand Lodge representative so that they can begin investigating the process of healing as it relates specifically to your Grand Jurisdiction.
[00:53:08]  You can guide a man towards the true light of Freemasonry.
[00:53:12]  And if he never gets the chance to become a legitimate Mason, at least you've given him the information to prevent him from being scammed further or from being treated badly by one of these clandestine organizations that are out there right now, preying on men all over.

=== Healing Process for Scammed Members (03:00) ===

[00:53:27]  And if you don't believe me, there is a website.
[00:53:30]  Phylaxis Society does a great website.
[00:53:32]  I've got the address here on screen and it's also in the description below.
[00:53:37]  And this has a list Of bogus Masonic organizations all over the United States and around the world.
[00:53:44]  So, at least you're going to get an idea of who you are encountering.
[00:53:50]  Of course, there is even here in California, I know Pasadena.
[00:53:55]  I think there is, for example, a lodge that is being charted by France, which is deemed irregular, but the works may be regularly simply unrecognized, let's say.
[00:54:11]  But it's important instead to stay away from these clandestine forms of Freemasonry that either want to take your money or either They are linked to elite groups that have no intention of manifesting within regular Freemasons simply because they are doing things that are not regular in any way, shape, or form.
[00:54:38]  They might be involved in politics, in religion, and in things that the regular logic shouldn't have anything to do with.
[00:54:46]  In any case, today I wanted to explain to my audience the various different nuances.
[00:54:55]  Hope that you appreciated today's show.
[00:54:59]  If you did, please put like, share, of course, this show on your social network of choice, and we will see each other on Saturday.
[00:55:12]  Thank you to Daniel Estes in the meantime and Larry Frescella for making this extra show on Wednesday happen.
[00:55:20]  If you want more extra Wednesday shows, please donate and of Course, purchase my books.
[00:55:31]  An important book in relation to also the topic of how Freemasonry is also doing something wrong out of the regularity in regards to religion by participating in the plans of the Jesuits and the Vatican.
[00:55:49]  Well, you need to read Volume 7.
[00:55:51]  Or, for example, what is happening in the Middle East.
[00:55:55]  There we had clandestine or spurious forms of Freemasonry, which Of course, we're clandestine and spurious because in most countries in the Middle East, Freemasonry is officially prohibited.
[00:56:07]  In any case, hope you enjoyed this show and I see you on Saturday.
[00:56:12]  All the best here from the world.
[00:56:22]  The difference between true clandestine Freemasonry and irregular Freemasonry and unrecognized Freemasonry.