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Sept. 6, 2024 - The Leo Zagami Show
01:18:59
MIND CONTROL MK ULTRA LEO ZAGAMI
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It's amazing.
The Michael Deacon program.
It's the MST. The MST. The MST.
The MST.
And welcome back boys and girls for another special edition of the Michael Deacon program.
In a moment, I'll be joined by Mr. Leo Zagami.
He's a highly respected author and investigative journalist.
You've heard him here and all over the place, including Infowars with Alex Jones.
Leo, how's it going, my friend?
Oh, great!
Glad to introduce your audience to another book.
It has not been that long ago since we introduced Volume 10, and today we're going to be introducing Volume 11.
I love that, yes.
Today we'll be discussing your latest book, Confessions of an Illuminati, Volume 11.
The past, present, and future of mind control from Sun Tzu to MKUltra and beyond.
And I'm looking forward to having this discussion with you, my friend.
Absolutely, and I think it's a topic which is also very important today in this age of widespread mental illness and confusion, propaganda and psyops conducted indiscriminately against Even the U.S.
population.
I think it's definitely a topic of importance.
It really is, and first I'd like to say congrats on the new book.
I suspect many people will be interested in it, and the MKUltra project is a topic I'm particularly interested in.
Psychological warfare has been used for centuries to defile your enemies, and it is still currently being used today in various forms.
Absolutely, but here we make a distinction between MKUltra and Psychological Operations because this book gives you a timeline, an exact timeline of mind control and goes also beyond MKUltra because formerly MKUltra, as you know, ended in 1973, but the history of mind control has, we can say, had just started in the modern era and I think that the
Pandora's box opened by the experiments of MKUltra are very important and relevant to this day for sure, but we also have other forms of mind control which have been elaborated since the end of the 70s, early 80s, and those that but we also have other forms of mind control which have been elaborated since the
and those that eventually will take the form in 1980 of a new kind of mind control that Michael Aquino, the late Michael Aquino, who used to be an expert in psychological warfare, called Mind who used to be an expert in psychological warfare, called Mind Now a lot of people are fixated.
Of course, Michael is a very controversial person, I used to know in person, and so I know very well one is tempted to always focus on those kind of connections with the satanic, with the esoteric.
But in this case, I'm focusing, of course, on Aquino's professional proposals in the psychological warfare department, let's say, in his work before and after he left, of course, in his work before and after he left, of course, the forces, because at one point in the early 2000s he left, but it was a...
At that point, actually, many of his techniques that he had pioneered were utilized.
And today we have also cognitive warfare, which is also an even more subtle, but even more insidious form of mind control, which is exercised on the population.
So there's definitely a lot to discuss today.
And for those who don't know me, I'm Leo Zagami.
Of course, known as a investigative journalist and a writer, but I was a member of the Monte Carlo Lodge of the P2, that's, for example, where I met Michael Aquino.
Even if we never met in person, we only had this long relation as pen pals, let's say.
We used to exchange a lot of ideas in subjects like mind control and also theosophy, because a lot of people forget that Michael Aquino's passion was theosophy.
I'm also very interested in this topic because it touches me personally.
My father, as you know, was Dr. Eliud Zagami.
friends and acquaintances.
I'm also very interested in this topic because it touches me personally.
My father, as you know, was Dr. Elio Zagami.
He had worked himself on experiments that were conducted on behalf of MKU in Paris during the 1960s, so I talk about that also in my new book.
And for those who don't know me, I used to be a member of what, of course, we commonly refer to as the Illuminati, and I was also involved in several Masonic orders.
This book, I would say, is probably the less esoteric, but at the same time, it has elements that are very important for the initiatic world, because for the first time, I also talk about the psychology of initiations, of how
The Illuminati, the Freemasons, in certain lodges that are controlled by people who are more unscrupulous and, let's say, of the average Freemason, from your social kind of Masonic environment, tend to utilize these lodges to experiment forms of mind control.
So this book actually explains for the first time the psychology of initiations that regards Of course, the Illuminati, Freemasons, but also many other kind of secret societies, actually also college fraternities, which are not per se Very secret, but the rituals, as we know, are very controversial.
The hazing, the way initiations work are made to actually forge the initiate in some way.
At times they go one step too far.
Way too far, yes.
And it becomes traumatic.
But that's why in this book I wanted to really talk about also the initiation Aspect and how they keep the Illuminati into check for example and that's something i think a lot of people will be very curious to learn because yes i talk of course about the psychological warfare mind control experiments and all the rest exercise on.
The masses, the majority of us, at times these experiments have been conducted without our knowledge, of course, unknowingly.
Other times there were volunteers and there were experiments that were conducted also in regards to initiations.
And so for the first time I wanted to explain what, let's say, the craft of initiation and the way they managed to then control the adept and make them do whatever they want.
And And you mentioned a whole lot of things there that I want to touch upon but you mentioned Lieutenant Colonel Michael Aquino who I had a pretty decent friendship with.
He's been on the program for many, well he was on the program for many years until he passed and you know a lot of people they find this program through looking for Michael Aquino and they'll find our interviews and I get heat all the time meaning I get I get some people out there that get really angry with me in general for having him on the program.
You see, I have even published in my latest book one of the many mails that we exchanged in regards to the participation of a meeting we were organizing in Monaco, in the Principality of Monaco, and he himself describes, you know, basically Aquino describes himself as an Orwellian.
He was somebody who was trying to bypass the rules that up until 10 years ago, 10, 12 years ago, were very strict also in regards to psychological operation to the United States population.
Because that's something that not many people know about, but the United States maybe was.
still is, to a certain extent, let's say, the only place where psychological operations were prohibited on the population.
You see, it never really worked out benefiting the whole of the population all the time, this whole thing, because They always found other ways to go around this law.
Eventually, though, they will change or at least try to change this law with Obama.
There was the Smith-Mountain Modernization Act of 2012 that then was enforced the following year by Obama.
And this This modernization act on a law that prohibited, since 1948, efforts of psychological operations within the United States,
It is, I think, a sign of the times we are living, because today, unfortunately, because of people like Obama, the excuse that was given, just so maybe I can give a brief explanation to your audience.
In 1948, the U.S.
Information and Education Exchange Act The Smith-Mundt Act was introduced after the Second World War had proven that there were efforts by the Nazis, by the Soviet Union, to in some way influence the mind of the Americans.
This became, I mean, in 1948, Truman decided in January that he needed to pass this law that was signed by him on January 27.
And this act was developed to regulate the broadcasting.
For example, we have in Europe, in the period immediately after the Second World War, Voice of America and all the brainwashing that was of course conducted, counter brainwashing, because at that point in Germany, you had to reprogram a whole nation that was completely lost with Adolf Hitler and Nazism.
So there were very strict rules that that kind of propaganda couldn't be used within the United States.
So that started to shape the future of the psychological operations, because that meant that within NATO, which then of course came into existence, and NATO is an alliance that, as you know, today has 31 states.
It was formed in 1949.
But from the moment onwards, we were the only country which will not sign up our own people.
At least that was the common knowledge that we all had within and outside the armed forces.
Then something, like I said, changed because now with the arrival of the Internet, it's much more difficult, first of all, to stop the foreign attempts To brainwash the United States population, because they can, of course, you know, use social networks, they can use other pervasive forms through the internet that were not available before.
So it's very difficult.
And then at the same time, We had the excuse they used in 2012 was basically that Al-Qaeda, ISIS were trying to infiltrate the minds of the Arab population residing here in the U.S.
and they needed to counteract that.
So they needed to eliminate that block on psyops that we had here in the United States.
That might seem like a good idea, but in reality, it opens the possibility to a wide variety of abuses that can be inflicted on the U.S.
population from that moment onwards.
So, because of a psyop conducted on a couple of journalists from USA Today, this whole thing kind of went out of hand, because they, of course, then denounced what was happening.
And because it was happening within the United States.
And now there is still an ongoing debate on this Smith-Mountain Modernization Act.
However, like I said, it was established after World War Two, both out of the states for the extreme domestic propaganda of fascist powers, Soviet powers, and because of misgivings about American domestic propaganda, even in World War One.
So not only World War Two.
So, the rest of NATO, though, didn't have this law.
And when the infamous, because it's really, you know, the whole Iraq, uranium, weapon of mass destruction, rubbish, that kind of, the whole story that basically brought us into Iraq.
Oh yes, never forget Operation Iraqi Freedom.
That is also something we could debate, because of course they use a lot of techniques that, like I said, were established by Michael Agino.
Oh yes, the godfather of propaganda.
Yeah, the godfather.
Michael Agino, like I said, Of course, he might have been involved in the Presidio case, and definitely he was a weirdo number one, a spooky guy.
I don't deny that at all.
I even told him to his face that.
Oh, yes.
He was disliked even amongst intelligent circles at times.
However, he had this capacity of wanting to reform something.
From the end, let's say, of the 70s onwards, him and then, of course, also Colonel John Alexander, Stu Beldine.
I mean, these are people that, as you know, then inspired the famous movie with Giorgio Cluny, The Man Who Stares at Goats.
That's right.
But this is, what happened in the 70s was like, Aquino disliked MKUltra, disliked experiments which were too invasive.
It's like the fact that during the 20 years of MKUltra, they had been, I mean, we know only about one death, the death of Frank Olson in 1953, which was right at the beginning of the whole experimentation, by the way.
But there were a lot of victims.
We know, of course, all the problems with Dr. Cameron in Canada.
We know about other experiments that were conducted in Fort Detrick.
But then, of course, we also know about Operation Midnight Climax, which brought MKUltra from being a strictly volunteer only kind of experimentation, which was done on volunteers within the armed forces mainly.
And this actually at one point involved Lee Harvey Oswald.
Which, of course, nowadays, when we see what happened recently with the attempted assassination of Donald J. Trump, you know, we see there is something really sinister about all these lone gunmen, because none of the families
I don't know, the family of Bob Kennedy or Martin Luther King or JFK ever believed the long gun theory.
None of them.
Right.
And this book, for the first time, wants to put some clarity.
That's why I really suggest, of course, everybody to read this book, which is, by the way, not such a big book that we have to...
Oh, I agree.
And by the way, you mentioned these assassinations, or an assassination attempt, rather, and... Well, let's not forget that interpretation, the correct interpretation of the acronym is Manufacturing Killers Utilizing Lethal Tradecraft Requiring Assassination.
This is MKUltra.
You see, MKUltra And I explain this in my book.
It tends to become, in the internet era, a sort of urban legend slash myth slash fantasy, because they mix up a lot of things.
You know, ah, that singer, oh, he's MKUltra, this other guy.
In reality, formally, MKUltra finished in 1973.
So we need to be a little bit correct about things, because as you know, I base my books on documents.
Right, and as you said, they claimed it disbanded in 1973, and you know, these experiments were outright insane, and most of the recorded documents were destroyed, and I always found that the most telling.
How many times have we read that in various news stories, that the evidence is always destroyed or lost from... Well, you see, here there is a very interesting thing that happened, because they used The general panic that in that moment, you know, the whole Nixon Watergate scandal created within the intelligence community.
So at that point, the actual head of the CIA had the perfect excuse to say, Oh, we need to get rid of all of this.
I mean, so people will say, but what is the connection between Watergate and MKUltra?
And people will ask me this for years, and you know, and I had to think a little bit about this connection until, you know, when I seriously started a few years ago to think about doing a book like this, I encountered a figure, a figure that was involved with MKUltra, but was also involved with the Watergate scandal.
He was one of the main witnesses there.
Everett Howard Hunt.
He was the super spy, the manipulator, that was behind, of course, a lot of operations, infamous operations.
He testimonied, of course, for the Watergate scandal, but he also wrote, using another name in 1967, a book that is almost impossible to find.
Impossible.
It's called We Were Controlled.
And the author of this book is Lincoln Lawrence, which sources that are credible say it's Everett Howard Hunt.
Now, what is so important in this book?
Because this book gives you details that nobody knew in 1967 when this book came out.
You see, Everybody now knows MKUltra and it's so popular it ended up in comedy movies or songs.
I don't know, even comic strips everywhere.
Right.
MKUltra now is pop.
But in 1967, nobody knew anything.
And what is written in this book, which I cite, of course, because it's almost impossible to find.
So I thought that this is an excellent opportunity also to introduce people to this piece of knowledge.
Which is very detailed about the experiments that were conducted on the minds of people, but also the first implants.
And of course, we need to always understand that when there is the CIA involved in the making of a book, it's not going to be completely honest.
It's going to be partisan.
And most of the times they always going to blame the Russians.
Or the Chinese, but mostly the Russians.
Right.
They like to blame the Russians for everything.
It's always this.
Now, it's interesting because I started this book on mind control by talking about even Pavlov.
Pavlov is a pioneer, let's say.
I mean, he's a real pioneer.
In fact, Vladimir Lenin went to Pavlov immediately after he raised to power with the Soviet Union and asked him to work with him.
You know, the famous movie, The Manchurian Candidate, the original one, 1962, which by the way, was censored for 20 years, a year after when Kennedy was assassinated.
I mean, it's kind of like, the paradox was that Kennedy gave the permit, the permission for that movie.
But the moment in which JFK gets assassinated, that movie, of course, it becomes a little bit, um, How can we say a not convenient movie to have a set?
Yes.
So for 20 years, that movie was completely banned.
Now, in this movie, the long shadow of Pavlov is actually involved in the movie because we see Sergeant Raymond Shaw, who is ordered to murder one of his fellow prisoners.
And of course, here we're talking about the two I mean, it is a great movie because I think it's very realistic.
And it has also the involvement of people who were like Frank Sinatra, who for years tried to collaborate with the CIA.
And then we have, of course, the other protagonist of this movie, which is Lawrence Harvey.
In this movie, like I said, you have the presence of Pavlov, because at one point, when the evil Dr. Yen Low, who is portrayed as this graduate of the USSR, Pavlov's Institute, explains to the rapt audience of communists, we have, and this I'm quoting him, we have trained Americans to kill and then have no memory of having killed.
The prisoner's brain has not only been washed, it has been dry cleaned.
Now, after the Second World War and with the beginning of what was another big confrontation for the United States in Korea, we have a lot of paranoia, growing paranoia amongst the U.S.
population that they might be brainwashed.
That the soldiers abroad might be brainwashed, the POWs in particular might be brainwashed.
Today, in 2024, the majority of the U.S.
population is completely unaware of being controlled.
Oh, yes.
Well, instead, in the 1950s, they were warned about this.
And so the film comes out In the heat of that warning that, you know, in the 1950s people started to really fear brainwashing and mind control, and then eventually this movie comes out, and we have this mention of the USSR Pavlov's Institute.
Because, like I explain in my book, Pavlov was consulted by Lenin, and he was the one who started all these experiments with the dogs, and then later on, of course, Once he started to work with Lenin, he made him go into the hospital so he could conduct the same experiments.
Also, the state-supported lab, of course, was much more rich at that point, and he could take humans instead than dogs as guinea pigs.
I mean, his techniques were very powerful, even if today, of course, they can be regarded as primitive.
They characterize the early stages of conditioning, and it is really thanks to Pavlov that we get all the way to MK Ultra, let's say.
Yes, and they really shaped society from film to musical acts.
In my opinion, I think the CIA was in control of a lot of things, including top musicians during that time.
A good example would be, in my opinion, the Grateful Dead.
Yeah, they gave him LSD, they wanted him to slip LSD into Castro.
These things we know.
They're definitely behind the music industry, for sure.
Definitely.
And as you know, I made a whole book about it, Volume 8.
So in this book, I focus more on the technical side of mind control.
I mean, how Pavlov built his conditioning, without going into all the tedious details, because of course, people can go and get to the book, but they are described in detail.
So it's about understanding how mind control works, how it developed, And how also it's different from, I mean, differences between mind control and brainwashing, because there is a difference here.
And you see, I would say that MQ Ultra, for the large part, with all its various sub-projects, of course, there is 160, some say 140, but I mean, there is a lot of them.
So the sub-projects are a lot, but they were mostly brainwashing.
And then, of course, they tried to start a relationship with the paranormal research, which, however, will be conducted much later by people like John Alexander or Stablin within the military complex and the SIOP operations rather than the MKUltra experiments.
Though they started experiments also with witchcraft, with all kinds of things with MKUltra.
They were going basically around the U.S. industry interviewing occultists, and of course they saw that they could use people with strong animal magnetism, because let's not forget
In my book, I explain how the Illuminati developed, with Franz Anton, Mesmer, what is known as Mesmerism, and then Hypnotism, which is a product for, I mean, how the Illuminati understand Mesmerism, of animal magnetism.
Eventually, of course, Michael Aquino will call it Homo Electromagneticus, and that will bring us to the future of mind control.
But going back to the time of the Illuminati, Mesmer was known as this guy who could do things on you and will operate on you.
He was a doctor, Mesmer.
But then he had a competition from somebody who was not recognized as a doctor, who was Count Cayostro, who was also a very powerful member of the Illuminati at the time that precedes the French Revolution, and who was, of course, connected to Benjamin Franklin.
And Benjamin Franklin becomes very interested with the possibility of mind control.
And actually, he was Benjamin Franklin, who said tricks and treachery are the practice of fools that don't have brains enough to be honest, as well as saying you can do anything you set your mind to.
He was rumored to have investigated hypnotism and mind control on behalf of the early US government.
Back in the early days of the nation.
So there was a lot of interest.
And then we have also Pascal Beverly Randolph, who is known, of course, widely as the pioneer of sex magic, the first guy who established a resecution order here in the United States, and was very close to Abraham Lincoln.
But Pascal Beverly Randolph was also an expert hypnotist.
In the sense that they were starting to really study how to control people.
But in the end, they understood.
And I think, I mean, Cayostro, on the contrary of Mesmer, was more of a pure hypnotist.
He didn't need all these kind of weird machines, you know, alchemical things, external objects that he would use, let's say.
Cagliostro used the power of the eyes, like one of those magicians that you can't resist, you know, you get overwhelmed by the power simply by watching their eyes.
Now, to me, it happened only once in my life.
I went in front of a person that had this kind of powers.
Of course his animal magnetism was very powerful but also his eyes, I mean here we're talking about somebody you don't want to be hypnotized and you start seeing that you are falling into hypnotism.
That kind of strong really it's amazing because I mean I never saw it, I never experimented.
I went to Egypt And we were in the middle of the night in Cancalilli, in this area where there is this old, very old mosque and stuff.
And my friend there said, Leo, in a moment you will encounter this guy who is a little bit like the guard of Cancalilli.
You have to pass him in order to go into the night into these mosques.
And I said, but what do you mean he's the guard?
He says, listen, this guy works, I don't know, I'm saying, you know, the Muslims say he works with genies.
Uh, people from, uh, from the Western world say he has an incredible hypnotic power.
Just don't look him in the eyes.
So I remember I went to pass.
I was, I was walking along and suddenly I see him and he was a classic guy with a tour band, you know, that you would say, Oh my God.
But I was like, I didn't want to listen to my friend Paul and I said, okay, I'm just going to turn and watch him in the eyes for a moment and see what happens.
And I tell you, the moment I turn and watch him in the eyes, fortunately I knew what I was doing and I managed to then detach.
But I felt the sense of like, suddenly being like, I didn't have any more control of myself.
Just by watching him.
And it was just like, of course, I saw, you know, the stage hypnotist doing this and that, but you have to understand that in the end, hypnotism is on its own.
And by the way, Leo, I hate to interrupt you, but how long ago was this incident?
Oh, this was in 2003, November, October, November 2003.
I talk about, by the way, that period of my life in Volume 10, because it's connected to Islam, of course, and my research
Um, he, he gave me kind of like a smile, like he let me off the hook almost, you know, and I saw that he, because he saw who I was with, I was with a member of the Butrusgalli family, so they knew, you know, he knew that I was with people who were... He knew that you knew what was going on, I think.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it was interesting, I just, That feeling.
I know what you mean, yes.
I mean, it's like, you see, I was initiated in many secret societies, CSX of the Illuminati Network, and like I describe in my book, in volume 11, you are prohibited from being hypnotized.
In the OTO, when you get basically initiated in the OTO, You are said, you are told, you are told that you are not to take certain drugs and you are not to be hypnotized by anybody.
So there is a specific, and this ritual, I mean, the, the fact that... That sounds like no fun, Leo.
No, no, but it was Aristotle who devised it because he didn't want any of the members of the O.T.O., the Illuminati to be brainwashed.
So this is a specific request.
So, um, you know, he didn't want anybody to have any post hypnotic or anything that could actually interfere with, uh, with his control of the order.
Because when you have, uh, you know, when you are initiated in, in, in, in, in, in an order, you go through certain symbols, which have themselves an hypnotic power.
And I, in this book, This is the first book ever, I think, in the English language, which also talks about the experiments and the work of Stefano Benemello.
Now, Stefano Benemello is still still alive and kicking on the country of Michael Aquino.
And he's equally as dangerous, but much less known here in America.
Of course, outside of the, let's say, outside of Italy is not very well known.
But he is, apart from being very A very respected, you know, somebody who has dealt into experimental psychology, but also he's a Satanist.
A Satanist who has written in his own book on hypnosi-dynamic, I call it, dynamic hypnosis, the power, the hypnotic power of the symbols and the mantras that are recited during the Black Mass.
So, In this new book of mine, I wanted to also include some of these things which people have never really discussed because they don't know what goes on inside a black mass.
No, of course not, yeah.
And so you see, I think that in this book I give a lot of interesting inside details about not only mind control for the masses, but mind control within disorders.
There is actually a whole testimony of the first time Stefano Benemeio entered a black mass.
And how him, as a mind controller, who had experience, because he is very well known in Italy, you can go and search him on the internet, Stefano Benemeio is like a very famous academic, but he's also a very spooky character.
He has over 50 years, he has been dedicated, he's a psychologist, he's an hypnotist, he's a researcher, and he's of course a doctor.
And he has founded a discipline, a discipline of analogic science, as he calls it, and this whole thing called hypnosis dynamica, dynamic hypnotic.
And so I think it's very important to talk about his work because me and Michael Aquino often discuss And he's still walking around?
Also because he's hardcore Satanist in Italy, like really hardcore.
And he's still walking around.
I mean, his master Satanist, who is another guy who is in Rome, who was founded the group called Navona 2000, is actually a guy who when Marilyn Manson comes in Italy, he sits on stage with him.
Oh, wow.
I mean, here talking about people who are really, really high up in the Satanic realm, but at the same time, also in the academic world.
So Stefano Benemello was born in 1945.
He's not that old, but he's still alive and kicking, unfortunately.
He is somebody who has created this analogical communication, which is also something my father had been working on.
My father has mainly been working though at the Sorbonne in Paris with experiments that were on the use of LSD and of course they were directly connected to mk uter because they were reporting to people from the ca who were part of this so he taught he taught me a lot my father about about things i was lucky enough let's say yeah
that's really interesting about your father and has these sort of things shaped your perception about your father in any way yeah People don't know who my father was.
My father was Dr. Eliud Zagami.
He was a young psychoanalyst.
He was a doctor, a neurologist.
I mean, he was a guy who had a career until the middle of the 70s when he became disgusted by the political abuse of psychiatry.
By what the Tavistock Institute was doing.
And he decided to give up all that altogether.
Especially after he had an accident with one of his clients.
He went on holiday and this guy throw himself off the window.
He said, okay, I had enough with this.
He said at that point, I want to continue with my research, but I want to do it out of the academic world.
Because also once the, you see, the CIA had purchased and I, explaining this book, a certain amount of LSD from the Sanders Labs.
Once this LSD was finished, all the researchers working under the CIA, both in America and also abroad, because people don't know, but there were many clinics abroad also working, not only in Canada, also in Europe, in Norway, in France, in many Countries working for the CA for Project MK Ultra.
Once it was finished, my father was kind of like left with, he was like, I need to continue.
He wanted to continue.
Because, see, my father's experiments were not of the coercive nature.
It wasn't about doing the disgusting things Dr. Kamenorn did.
It wasn't about the self diving or Putting people in rooms and sleep deprivation and all kinds of... No, that wasn't what my father wanted to do.
My father wanted to do what then later on John Alexander, Aquino and all those people did.
He wanted to go into the realm of the paranormal slash mind control.
Interesting.
And he actually wrote a book.
Oh, your dad did?
Yes, of course.
But this book then was forbidden because I have a copy of it.
And now finally, thanks to my brother, it is now selling because my father printed the first, I think, thousand copies.
Okay.
Then at two o'clock at night, he received a phone call from a guy in the Italian intelligence who threatened him, said, Dr. Zagami, this is not a book you can bring up now.
We advise you not to bring it out.
Otherwise, some bad things will happen to you and your family.
And at that point, my father never distributed that book.
So we were left with a thousand copies of this book hanging around, you know, put in a thing.
Interesting.
And then, you know, after the death of my father, I started to sell these copies and give them out also for free.
I see.
So I could spread it.
It's only in Italian, of course.
People ask me, oh, Leo, can we have it?
Yeah.
No, but this book is only in Italian.
And my father was really a good writer in Italian, but he never attempted to write in English because he could read English.
He could read German.
He was very good in German.
My father had worked at the Institute, at the Jung Institute in Switzerland and Mayer, who was the successor of Gustav Jung, wanted to appoint him the successor.
So he was very high up.
But when he saw what the Tavistock Institute was doing, what the, because you see, When we talk about the political abuse of psychiatry, then we talk about immediately in the minds of the ignorant.
Oh, yes, the Soviets.
Oh, those bad Russians.
No, it was done all over.
It's still done today here in the Western world.
Right, and that's one thing I was going to ask you, Leo.
I was going to mention, you know, they claim they disbanded all these sort of experiments, but in your opinion, do you think they actually really did?
You see, the experiments were continued, and I list them also after the closing of MKUltra, but not within MKUltra, not within the CA.
The CA Yes, they said, of course, all the documentation was destroyed.
But still, to this day, from time to time, some of this documentation resurfaces because it's never all destroyed.
But the thing is that those experiments produce some results.
And so those results started to circulate also outside of the CIA, in non-governmental agencies, cults, all kinds of other foreign intelligence operatives learned about them.
There was also, as you know, a great competition between Russia and America.
So it's not that suddenly, in 1973, the Americans would simply stop everything because the public wasn't happy.
Yes, of course.
Formally, they had to stop everything.
Otherwise, they will risk an amount of lawsuits that will never end.
So still to this day, we see the lawsuits also that were moved in Canada, where MKUltra was conducted outside of U.S.
soil, never really produced anything incredible.
And Canada is one of the most brainwashed.
Actually, it is the brainwashed laboratory of the Western world.
I define it this way in my book.
It's the place where during the pandemic, they conducted the most incredible and shocking experiment on their own population.
And this is confirmed by the Canadian Armed Forces.
I'm not making it up.
It's not the conspiracy theory.
Like I said, I base my books on fact, not on fiction.
And what happened in Canada was that not only They had all the MKUltra, of course, but now, in more recent times, they had a complete brainwashing, Chinese-style social engineering that is shocking when you think about the supposed Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
Today, Canada is a mind-controlled prison and a laboratory of the worst kind.
And it may never escape this neoliberal hell.
Because like I explained in this book, with documents in my hands, there was actually the Canadian Joint Operation Command that started an investigation that had to stop what they were doing during the epidemic at one point.
There was A guy who was called to inspect this whole thing, the now retired Major General Daniel Gosselin, and who was brought into investigating this whole scheme.
And he concluded that the Canadian military commanders believed they didn't need approval from higher authorities to develop and proceed with their own brainwashing plan on the population during the pandemic.
Wow, I didn't even know that!
So this is a shocking revelation that you can find in my new book, because I mean, I want to bring in this new book a timeline and also the latest events, because when we think about the pandemic, we are thinking also one of the biggest psychological operations ever conducted in the history of mankind.
I agree.
I agree and again just recently we all watched a failed assassination attempt on former President Donald Trump.
We witnessed history that day and we nearly saw a man get decapitated in high definition on the world stage and some people out there were cheering.
Some people were highly disappointed that the shooter actually missed Leo.
I think that's pretty crazy that some people were Well, it's crazy that people see to this day, the FBI says, uh, we don't know the reason for, for that.
I mean, they don't want to admit something because they're involved in this massive psyop against Trump to this day.
You see, when you brainwash young people in the university and tell them to hate an individual called Donald J. Trump, and you do it 24 seven on your media, that is a psyop.
Okay.
And, and it's disgusting what they're doing.
But then there is something more about Thomas Crooks, because his parents were both people involved in mental health.
And so it's much more complicated.
And, but there is also, in the case of Thomas Crooks, I actually opened the book by stating people immediately, you know, a week after the attempted assassination, ah, Thomas Crooks, MKU, guys, When we discuss these kinds of subjects, we need to be really detailed.
That's why my book is number one in experimental psychology, actually in academic circuits.
They are digging my book because I base my book on facts, not on wild speculations.
And there is some facts regarding the attempted assassination of Donald J. Trump, which I discuss in my book, including the cremation of Thomas Krug.
Because, you see, we discussed just a moment ago, if you remember, Lee Harvey Oswald and the possibility that he had an implant.
This is not just a wild possibility that he had an implant.
There were experiments that are actually presented to us in that book, which I mentioned by Lincoln Lawrence, which in reality was Howard Hunt, which described the long history of implants, which started a long time ago.
And eventually, we arrived to the year 2024, where a week before the attempt to assassinate Donald J. Trump, we have the announcement that you have a new mind control technology that is launched.
Have you heard about this?
Because this is the ultimate revelation that will shock people.
The Nanomagnetic Genetic Interface for Neurodynamics, commonly now referred to as Nanomind, which is experimented at the Korean Institute of Basic Science, and this place announced the discovery.
Just a week before the attempted assassination.
Interesting.
And this discovery proves that they localized in the mind of mice through nanoparticles, basically with a switch now, they can make them do whatever they want.
And that can happen also with a human being.
Right and you know we're seeing these sort of human trials going on with the Neuralink thanks to Elon Musk.
But like I explained in my book Neuralink of course you know and I talk about computer interfaces but this neurodynamics is even more subtle and even more persuasive in if you want to produce a mind control assassin It means that they have to destroy the evidence, and that's why Thomas Crook's body was cremated 10 days after the attempted assassination.
Right, it was just gone.
Yeah, and once the body's gone, it's cremated, you can't see if he was taking any drugs, any psychopharmaceutical compounds, anything.
Because it was eliminated.
Right, and that's a red flag for those that aren't paying attention.
When things like that happen, like when a school was demolished right away on Sandy Hook, and when Osama Bin Laden was allegedly thrown into the sea, I mean, these are all just, these are all things that are bullshit, Leo.
Yeah.
And up until now, of course, we have been talking about, well, in the case of Thomas, Matthew Crooks is important to discuss him because he might have become another of these lone can assassins.
Let's talk about this.
I mean, It's incredible how they think that we are idiots.
They really think we are idiots.
I mean, if we go and see the similarities with also the assassination of JFK, I mean, Lee Harvey Oswald was probably not the only shooter.
Maybe Thomas Crooks was not the only shooter.
Probably not.
But probably the fact is that we also don't need to focus on if he was or not a lonely shooter, because the main anomaly here is another.
It's not the fact he was a lonely shooter or not.
The fact that he had contacts with external sources is demonstrated even by a photo done a few minutes before the attempted assassination where he's watching his phone and he has encrypted apps.
That's right.
So while the second shooter hypothesis might not be ever confirmed, The fact that they're hiding other connections, it's obvious.
Very obvious.
And you know, things aren't truly encrypted, as they say.
Nothing is.
So I don't buy that excuse from the Feds.
And going back to 1968, with RFK, that assassination, I also believe that was a direct result of mind control techniques, for the record.
I mean, when it comes to I mean, here we're talking about a lone nut or we're talking about a mind control individual.
We were talking about James Herr Ray, who is the guy who they say assassinated Martin Luther King.
I mean, this is, like I said, this episodic revelation of the lone nut syndrome seems to be almost common.
Right.
We have, you know, if we carefully study these scenarios, what we will discover is astonishing.
That's why I think that this book brings you enough evidence without going into the second shooter theory.
In fact, I say it in my book.
We can't, you know, the second shooter theory, there is even professionals like Dan Bongino, who used to be a former secret service, who is not a proponent, but even him says we have to look into other people that were probably behind Thomas Crookes.
So even people who are quite critical about the second shooter hypothesis still seem to, and he is a professional, he has testimonied, in fact, I think in front of Congress or a committee the other day.
So, and Leo, I hate to interrupt you, but what do you say about the fact that there are some people out there, a good majority of people out there believe none of this was real, that it was all completely staged?
What do you say to that?
I'm not interested in conspiracy theories.
That's what I say.
I say that it's enough that the fact that basically at the beginning of August, a congressman arrives in Butler, Pennsylvania, And suddenly they tell him that the body is cremated.
That is a serious thing that should still be today in the newspapers, and nobody's discussing.
I agree.
I mean, we are talking about an event that took place at the exact moment in which there was the cremation of Kerr Annual Ritual.
Now, we know The Bohemian Grove and the Bohemian Club have been for many years, you know, in the mouth of many conspiracy theories that, and we know also Alex went inside, he filmed and all that.
But maybe people don't know that within the Bohemian Grove, you usually have the creme de la creme of the military industrial complex in their own encampment.
And you have also the husband of Nancy Pelosi.
So.
I think that maybe people need to understand that it's not a coincidence that while they're doing the cremation of care ritual, somebody is attempting to kill the President of the United States, and at the same time, ten days, exactly ten days after that, he himself is cremated.
Yeah, that's no accident.
No, it's not a coincidence.
There is no coincidences in this kind of things.
And so I think that it's quite incredible that even in the alternative media, they have not really given enough interest to this synchronicity of events that was taking place.
But if, like I said, when you have studied, and you have actually, I was actually guested by a high priest of the Bohemian Grove, who is in the Bohemian Club, John Compact, and actually talk about in volume one of my confessions,
And like I said, in these camps, there is the creme de la creme of the various, you know, you have various people, they are divided into various encampments.
And then you have various gathering places also that are part of the Bohemian Grove setup.
And one of the most important is the one dedicated to the military-industrial complex.
So is it a coincidence that that day there was the whole military-industrial complex?
Which, by the way, NATO itself, and this is another big subject to which I touch in my book, because I talk about cognitive warfare.
And I talk about how NATO operates in the realm of psychological operations.
And NATO, you see, has always been also the path when they needed to bypass because here in the US, even if we have the reform of the act we talked about at the beginning of the interview, if a US citizen You know, finds evidence he's under attack or a psychological operation.
He could report that and he could actually have a good case for himself.
Instead, like he said, the other NATO countries can't.
So when it came, like I said before, to the weapons of mass destruction, they couldn't find them with the testimony from America.
The SIOP was created by the Italian intelligence, who then passed on the information.
And then you had all those lying neocons that in front of the United Nations said, "Oh, we have the evidence, "weapons of mines destruction in Iraq, Saddam Hussein." But that was a SIOP. - It was a SIOP, and George Bush, by the way. - But because everything is built on plausible denability, they could say, "Oh yes, but the SIOP was the Italians, It wasn't the Americans.
Right.
And for those that forgot, George Bush went on a rampage trying to incite an invasion of Iraq just hours after his inauguration, by the way, in 2000.
That was back in 2001.
And for those that forgot, you know, Dick Cheney also falsely stated that Saddam Hussein, he said, Saddam Hussein, no doubt, No doubt has weapons of mass destruction.
And my God, you know, that was a lie.
Absolutely.
It was not a lie.
It was a psyop.
Or a psyop, yes.
There is actually a difference here.
That's true.
I mean, we tend to say, oh, well, he's saying a lie.
No, no.
He's actually exercising a psyop.
Now, like I said, psyops Should not be inflicted on US population, because it's the only country in the world that devised a legal and still to this day, even with the Modernization Act of 2012, it's not a complete rebuttal, you know, of the old law, it's actually an amendment of it.
So we can still operate legally within those frames.
That's why in my book, I say, it's still debated the question, because People tend to say, oh, yeah, Leo, but now with the Modernization Act of 2012, basically all Americans are open to psychological warfare.
Well, it's not that simple.
It's not that simple.
If you know your rights, and if you have a good knowledge of the law, you can actually still sue their asses if they try to inflict asylum.
And a good lawyer, by the way.
That's why they became very scared when those two journalists from America sued the American girl, you know, because of that.
I mean, it was like a very scary thing for them.
Yeah, we're not talking about the talking about USA Today.
I mean, it's like It's a tool of the propaganda itself.
Big time.
And Leo, let me ask you this.
I know you mentioned your father here earlier and I was going to ask you, in terms of his involvement with MKUltra and some of the things that he may or may not did, did that affect your relationship at all with him in any sort of way?
Did you view him in a different light after figuring things out or did you view him?
No, no, no.
He was very open about it.
He was very open.
Okay.
No secrets.
He was completely honest with everything with you.
In other words, my father at one point, you know, I grew up and I, but even when I was growing up, I saw certain things.
And at one point I also, I saw he was not working any longer because he stopped in 1975.
I was five years old.
And he continued in private his experiments and I was brought, I remember, in the early 70s or the second part of the 70s, still I used to go around with him in search of LSD.
Oh my!
So I mean, you know, not that I would take LSD myself, but I took LSD later on.
Good times too!
Well, good times.
It was something experimental.
I took it very seriously.
Was very serious about it, but he also told me, gave me a trick, like I had this substance, if the thing went too high, I could take and it would bring it immediately down or take a bit of lemon.
I mean, he teach me tricks, but at the same time, he had founded the Gruppo Autonomo di Psicologia Analytica, which is this independent group of analytical psychology made up of all these eminent young psychoanalysts in Italy.
And he was the president of it.
I mean, he was still, even after he left the academic world, they still left him as president because they had very much respect for him.
Yeah, he had a long lasting effect on that.
Wim Mayer, who, like I said, was Jung's, Carl Gustav Jung's disciple, came to Rome and called my father in the middle of the seventies.
My father said, no, I'm not going to have any more to do with this.
I just don't want to have anything to do with it.
So, I remember my father talking about the abuse of political, the political abuse of psychiatry.
It was really something that made him very sad.
And he discussed it in front of my mother.
So, I mean, these are things that I remember very vividly.
And like I said, we had a very open relationship.
I mean my father was open about his consumption of drugs for experimental purposes.
He did it only within an academic frame, but he was very open about it.
what he was doing with his group of researchers and friends.
Because when he left the academic world, then he continued with these groups of people made up of academics, but also out of artists, singers, and people like this, quite famous people at times that will come together with him to do these experiments.
But like I said, they never had a coercive nature.
They were more into the realm of the paranormal.
Understood, yes.
There's a lot of transparency, unlike our government here in America.
Well, I mean, it wasn't.
The problem is that then my father also had to be very careful because a couple of times he finished under the raiders of the Italian government who really got angry.
And so we really, you know, suddenly I remember one day we had like 50 policemen arriving at the house and my father was like accused of being the head of the Red Brigades.
Oh my.
I mean, so, I mean, they were pretty serious.
My father was the son of a senator who had himself, my grandfather, a political history.
So it was, let's say, very, I mean, complex, at times also brought to some suffering.
But in the end, I think that he understood the new mental battlefield.
You see, in 1980, there was a publication, a military review.
I don't know if you know this publication.
It's like A professional publication in which Lieutenant Colonel, at the time he was Lieutenant Colonel, John B. Alexander talked about psychotronics and he started to describe the interaction of mind and matter.
This was very important for my father.
This kind of research, which actually also was going on in the Soviet Union, like the parapsychological research, they believe that there was the possibility of, for example, remote viewing.
That was very important.
My father was very much into that kind of thing.
So it's not about coercive things, it was about the reality of paranormal events being accepted also by these people that could use them for military purposes.
And like I said, the extent of the parapsychological research in the United States is ultimately, at that point, at the end of the 70s, beginning of the 80s, not really well known.
But there were scientific experimentation also conducted within the, let's say, many soldiers had close calls with death in combat.
And it kind of changed their consciousness.
That was, for example, a very important thing.
I myself had that experience.
You see, the book of my father, Fumaster, which was the book, the essence of Helier, I told you about Helier, actually opens up with me dying for a few minutes because we had this spring in the garden, but two meter spring, like, how you say?
So it was like, I fall there, I was like four years old.
I was very, I was a child, I was chasing the dogs, playing with them.
And suddenly my mother, from inside the house, which is far away, a few hundred meters far away, she felt something.
And it was like I had connected with her with, you know, telepathic.
Yeah.
And she started to run and we were lucky enough that my mother actually had the knowledge of, you know, because I was upside down for a few minutes inside that water.
And so I was actually chanotic.
I was dead, basically.
So they had to revive me, you know, and my father, of course, was a doctor.
after a ride, but I was saved.
But I remember very vividly the life death experience of that moment when I exited my body upside down in that spring. - So you saw yourself from another perspective in other words.
- Yeah, yeah. - Wow. - So that kind of experience brings out something different.
And my father was more interested in that kind of thing.
Like I said, he was in a consciousness, in other words, study of the consciousness.
And instead you had people like, like, like that monster of Cameron, the guy who basically
Inspired even Robert Ludlum's books about Jason Bourne because that was Cameron was Donald Ewan Cameron was an unscrupulous and evil psychiatrist.
My father was never evil.
Um, and that's why eventually, ultimately he left psychiatry altogether and he renounced it publicly in the middle of the seventies, which was a big thing for a guy like my father.
I mean, we're not talking about, because this was not any kind of psychiatry.
He had a bunch of VIPs who were coming and he was making a lot of money and he was offered the direction of a clinic in Switzerland, which is most, most prestigious clinic in the world of psychiatry in the world.
So to renounce to all that because of your own ideals, it means that you have balls.
And that's why I always had.
Of course, I wish that he could see me now doing so well with this book, because it is, of course, a lot of what we had debated together many times.
And you see, he was He was a psychiatrist and psychiatrists have psychotherapy.
Right.
And so they... I'm sure he's proud of you, though, Leo.
Absolutely.
No, absolutely.
I mean, I'm proud of myself for having put together something like this, because I'm not a mental health professional in any way.
And I don't present myself as a psychiatrist or as a psychologist.
I had people from the mental health world, actually, who worked against me in the past, because when my father was dead in 2013-14, I participated to the Pitchfork insurrection in Italy, as you remember, maybe.
Which became very popular.
You can find it on Wikipedia even, and you can read all about it.
The whole of Italy was paralyzed by my initiative, my political initiative.
But at that point, they punished me.
They broke into my house.
My wife was shocked and traumatized by what they did.
And it was a guy, Professor Giuseppe Niccolo, who presented himself in front of my lawyer as a member of the Tavistock Institute.
Who brought me in and kept me in a mental institute for two weeks?
And I needed then three lawyers to get out of that mess.
My goodness.
Yes.
I recall you talking about that in one of your earliest interviews here.
And yeah, that's, that's pretty tragic.
And we'll look at you now, Leo, you, you escaped, you came, you've come to America.
You're quite successful here.
Absolutely not.
But also this, in fact, this book has also a whole chapter on the Tavistock Institute because they could not be the experiments that took place from the fifties onwards.
Here in America, if there wasn't not only the fear of what went on in Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union, but also the inspiration that came from the Tavistock Clinic that was rebranded after the war, Tavistock Institute.
Now, they were the ones who worked with people like Adolf Huxley.
And I described The doors of perception as the gates of hell.
Because, you see, Huxley experimented and worked, I mean, within a certain milieu of people that were very influential.
I mean, you had H.G.
Wells, who basically coined the term New World Order.
Bertrand Russell, the founder of analytic psychology, Philosophy if you want, or at least one of the main inspirators, and Adolf Huxley.
And they were promoting the use of psychedelic drugs.
They were the ones that inspired the use of LSD and other drugs within the MKUltra project.
That's why Huxley ended up living here, not in England anymore.
Well, it's a good thing you're here, not in England, especially now, Leo.
Absolutely.
England is a nightmare today.
And every time I watch what's going on there, I'm like shocked.
But you see, I did a few conferences and book presentations in the last two years before I left Europe in London.
And what I saw there, because you see, I'm half English.
I have part of my family in England.
My aunt is a former judge.
I mean, I'm well connected in England.
Of course, my mother is a cousin to the, I mean, my grandfather was cousin to the Queen Mother.
So, I mean, we are well connected in England.
I could have chose to leave Italy and go to England because England, after all, is in the United Kingdom and the United Kingdom is outside of the EU.
But what I saw In the last few months before I left here for America was that the United Kingdom was no better than the EU.
There were already back then people who, like me, suffered injustice simply for a post on Facebook.
You know how much they harassed me in Italy for posts on Facebook?
I had to stop posting in Italian.
In England, the same thing.
I had the people that, you know, the police was knocking on the door in the early hours of the morning for a post on Facebook, just like they did with me.
So, and actually with me, they actually broke the door for a post on Facebook.
I was even more extreme.
But I saw the only country left in the world where I could continue my mission was America.
And the United States has still this beautiful constitution, And like I said, potentially, it even has a law to protect ourselves from mind control.
It's only our ignorance that is permitting these criminals to continue with their rubbish.
If, of course, the deep state prevails, well, at that point, Then we will have Kamala Harris for president.
We will all be brainwashed left, right and center.
And anybody that goes outside of the conformity and compliance that is required will be punished.
Absolutely.
And you know, we are not yet at that point.
We are not yet where Canada is.
Not yet.
But I mean, we're getting closer every year, I think.
I hope not.
I hope we can stop it.
I hope.
That we can stop it.
You see, in my book, I describe also some of the cultural products of MKUltra, the psychedelic era, no?
And Timothy Leary said that basically the internet was the new LSD.
Oh, I love that.
Yes, turn on, tune in and drop out.
And Leo, I believe this is a great part to part ways.
Matter of fact, Leo, I do want to Thank you wholeheartedly for being on the program and sharing all this with us, this audience here.
And yes, you can get the book, Confessions of an Illuminati, Volume 11, and go to Amazon.
I mean, you get this book because you will find also the connections with Ado Saxi, Alistair Crowley, the Abbey of Telema used as a mind control camp.
You will find a lot of things that will make you rethink in your mind your own perception of what mind control has been and how close it is also to the occult and why so close to the occult in many ways because we had people like Madame Blavatsky saying that hypnotism was the most powerful form of black magic ever.
Thank you for having me on, Michael!
You got it, brother!
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