Lionel Nation - Lionel & Baron Coleman UNLOAD – Ballistics Fail, Phony Confessions & Patsy Setup Exposed
Aired: 2026-04-18
Duration: 01:38:35


=== Insanely Curious Minds (02:35) ===

[00:00:01]  All right, my friends, I am here and I'm glad to say that without further ado, without any delay, without waxing dilatory, without any hesitation whatsoever, you know, this gentleman was kind enough to appear to grace the portals of the nation, and he is absolutely without peer.
[00:00:19]  There was an old joke years ago that the last thing in the world you ever wanted to hear was that Mike Wallace was in your waiting room.
[00:00:26]  Well, I think today the last thing you want to hear is Baron Coleman is doing a deep dive on you or he's investigating.
[00:00:35]  everything you've done.
[00:00:36]  He is without peer, non-Parel, sui generis.
[00:00:39]  Mr. Coleman, thank you, my friend.
[00:00:41]  I don't know how you do it, sir.
[00:00:42]  So this is going to be an interesting experiment because normally when I listen to you, I have a dictionary and I have to thumb through it real fast.
[00:00:49]  But today, I can't do that.
[00:00:50]  So I just got to kind of smile and nod.
[00:00:54]  Don't humble yourself.
[00:00:56]  First and foremost, I've got to tell you something.
[00:00:57]  You have, and I'm not every, first of all, I'm not one to flash encomia or peons, as we say.
[00:01:05]  I don't want to blow smoke.
[00:01:07]  I don't want to kiss anybody's arse.
[00:01:08]  I don't do this.
[00:01:09]  But you have done something which I've never seen.
[00:01:13]  I've been doing this for 38 years in terms of actual talk radio.
[00:01:19]  We've never had an individual who has not just listened to a show, but deep dove or deep dived like you have.
[00:01:27]  Has this always been your MO, your treatment?
[00:01:32]  I enjoy broadcasting, so I enjoy talking.
[00:01:34]  And if I can dig through something even better, I love researching.
[00:01:37]  I've got a true ADD brain.
[00:01:39]  I mean, I just get.
[00:01:40]  I get lost in rabbit trails and I go.
[00:01:43]  And so this is nice.
[00:01:44]  I mean, I can just dive in.
[00:01:45]  I've got the ADD part of me.
[00:01:48]  I end up deep diving on so many different things.
[00:01:50]  It's hard to decide where are we going to do a show?
[00:01:52]  What are we going to, what thread are we going to pull on today?
[00:01:54]  But generally speaking, yeah.
[00:01:56]  I mean, this is, this is how I've operated for a long time.
[00:01:58]  I've, I've always, you know, even when I did talk radio, I would, I would stay on a topic and dig Wouldn't ADD make you unable to do that?
[00:02:09]  No.
[00:02:10]  I would think that your ability to, to focus and perseverate is a chance that you really don't have that.
[00:02:14]  I'm just curious.
[00:02:16]  No, not at all.
[00:02:16]  What it does is so I have an insanely curious mind, Lionel.
[00:02:20]  Insanely curious mind.
[00:02:23]  So, what ADD is, you indulge the curiosity.
[00:02:27]  So, if you are supposed to be reading your history homework, ADD is going to work against you because you may not be insanely curious about the Napoleonic Wars.

=== Tracking Google Trends Patterns (05:21) ===

[00:02:37]  And you might want to look at the history of the soda bottle or whatever pops in your head.
[00:02:41]  And you just want to do that.
[00:02:43]  I think I've got ADD.
[00:02:45]  That's what I'm supposed to do.
[00:02:46]  I get this all the time.
[00:02:47]  I like when they say, you're changing the subject.
[00:02:50]  I used to have a program director who says, you're drifting, you're veering.
[00:02:53]  I'm saying, I'm desultory, I'm elliptical.
[00:02:56]  It's called scat, it's called a conversation.
[00:02:59]  Have you ever talked to somebody, have a beer with somebody, say, excuse me?
[00:03:02]  We started off talking about football, and now you're talking.
[00:03:05]  It doesn't work like that.
[00:03:06]  Let me get down to the million dollar question.
[00:03:08]  How did you get into this?
[00:03:11]  The whole Tyler Robinson, Charlie Kirk, and of course, we must pay homage to the first lady, the grand lady, the number one, the diva, the doyen of this, Miss Candace, who if it wasn't for her, she hooked me like you can't believe.
[00:03:31]  Tell me your connection.
[00:03:33]  She's the goat.
[00:03:34]  And that's actually how I ended up in this.
[00:03:38]  So years ago, I consult.
[00:03:41]  I mean, this is before broadcasting.
[00:03:43]  Well, no, it's kind of in the middle of the broadcasting, but I was on a team that helped consult for a grocery store in the Mid-Atlantic, like the Pittsburgh, Cleveland type area.
[00:03:50]  And one of the tools we used was called Google Trends.
[00:03:53]  And we would look at Google Trends and we would start to see when certain products were picking up steam on Google searches.
[00:04:00]  And we could tell the grocery store chain, hey, this is the next big thing.
[00:04:04]  We can see it coming.
[00:04:05]  You need to start stocking it, pushing it, advertising it, put it on the end caps, put it next to the register, wherever it is.
[00:04:11]  And I got really curious as we'd have school shootings and mass shootings and all this stuff.
[00:04:17]  I was real curious because you would always see a spike right after the event of people searching for that person.
[00:04:23]  But my curiosity was, did anybody search before?
[00:04:27]  And so I would always like accept that date from the date of the event after and then look, has anybody been searching this guy before?
[00:04:35]  And I noticed a pattern that started coming up.
[00:04:37]  Where around Washington, D.C. or around the area, you would see a little tiny blip, right days, weeks, months leading up to it of this name or maybe the person's address or where the event happened, the elementary school, the middle school, the high school.
[00:04:51]  You would see these little blips.
[00:04:53]  And so I started doing it with more and more famous things.
[00:04:56]  And then I did it with Thomas Matthew Crooks after the Butler, Pennsylvania shooting.
[00:05:03]  And it was crazy.
[00:05:04]  The rabbit holes that took me down was crazy.
[00:05:06]  And so after the Charlie Kirk event, a guy that I used to work with called me and he said, have you done your Google Trends thing on Charlie Kirk?
[00:05:14]  I thought, no, I haven't.
[00:05:16]  You know, a couple, three days have gone by.
[00:05:17]  He said, you should and see what happens.
[00:05:19]  So I started doing it and I saw these really disturbing blips in Israel, in Washington, D.C., in Huntsville, Alabama, where there's a massive FBI headquarters.
[00:05:29]  And I started looking at every name I could think of, every witness, every person who was there.
[00:05:33]  And then I started going down the lawyers in the case.
[00:05:36]  And then I started doing the judge and the medical examiner and the surgeon.
[00:05:38]  And I started doing absolutely everybody.
[00:05:41]  And I was documenting all of it with screen caps and sending it out to Ian Carroll, to Candace Owens, to different podcasters saying someone should cover this.
[00:05:50]  And I was talking to a friend of mine.
[00:05:52]  This was maybe a week, a week and a half after, whatever, I started doing this.
[00:05:55]  I was talking to a friend of mine.
[00:05:56]  He goes, You have a podcast.
[00:05:57]  Why don't you do it?
[00:05:58]  And I was like, Whoa, this is not the kind of show I do.
[00:06:01]  You know, I do sort of my own fun show and I have a good time.
[00:06:05]  You don't do this?
[00:06:06]  This is not the show you do normally?
[00:06:09]  I don't pick on Israel normally.
[00:06:13]  It's not about a picture of picking of Israel, but I'm saying, but this is, I mean, if ever there was somebody who was born to do not that particular subject, but this genre, it's you, sir.
[00:06:24]  Well, and I had done it a little bit.
[00:06:27]  Like I had done some of these deep dives when the guy blew his truck up outside of the Trump Hotel in Vegas.
[00:06:33]  Yeah, yeah, right.
[00:06:34]  Yeah, I did several shows on that and did some deep dives.
[00:06:37]  There were things along the way where I would do that.
[00:06:41]  But I never really, I don't know, it just felt dangerous to me.
[00:06:46]  The FBI, Israel, like it seemed like you needed someone with a much bigger high profile than me talking about these Google Trends results.
[00:06:54]  But anyway, no one would ever get back to me.
[00:06:55]  I don't think anyone quite understood it.
[00:06:57]  So I just started doing the shows to the 50 or 100 people who were watching me.
[00:07:01]  And all of a sudden I looked down and I noticed there were 200 people watching, and then 300 people watching, and then 500 people watching.
[00:07:07]  And then one day I took my wife's car to the grocery store.
[00:07:10]  I said, hey, let me run to the store and get gas because Ian Carroll was coming on to do his Free Speech Friday.
[00:07:15]  I loved watching that.
[00:07:16]  It was one of my favorite shows.
[00:07:17]  And so I would, I put the phone up on the dash and I'm driving down the road and he's just now coming on.
[00:07:21]  It was right at five o'clock.
[00:07:23]  And he said, Hey, I found this small podcaster.
[00:07:26]  He's in very few followers, but he goes, The work he's doing is incredible.
[00:07:29]  You should see this stuff he's doing on Google Trends.
[00:07:31]  And I was like, Yes, someone's finally doing it, you know, not just me.
[00:07:33]  And then he put my picture up and he said, His name's Baron Coleman.
[00:07:36]  And all of a sudden I looked and I started getting subscriptions, ding, It just went crazy from there and it just started picking up more and more.
[00:07:48]  And I thought, okay, let me stay on this Google Trends long enough to really run through the whole thing.
[00:07:55]  And I remember talking to a friend saying, What if people get sick of the Google Trends?

=== Proving Probable Cause (16:07) ===

[00:07:58]  You know, then what?
[00:07:59]  I'm a one trick pony.
[00:08:00]  And now these people are subscribed and they don't like the next thing I do.
[00:08:03]  And you're very considerate.
[00:08:04]  Most people would say, Screw them.
[00:08:06]  I don't care what anybody thinks.
[00:08:08]  This is my show, but you show a connection and a concern for your audience.
[00:08:13]  Well, I didn't want to bore.
[00:08:14]  I didn't want to disappoint.
[00:08:15]  I don't like to disappoint people if they tune in.
[00:08:17]  You don't want to bore.
[00:08:18]  Absolutely.
[00:08:19]  Yeah.
[00:08:19]  I feel like if you're going to invest an hour or two in my show, I want to give you what you came for.
[00:08:24]  And so I, but, but finally I was like, you know, the Google train trends, I can only do so much of it.
[00:08:29]  So I started looking into other aspects of the Tyler Robinson, Charlie Kirk narrative.
[00:08:33]  And I've started realizing this thing's falling apart.
[00:08:35]  Like this doesn't, this is, there's reasonable doubt all over the place in this thing.
[00:08:38]  And, and so here we are, 99 episodes of, of, of this issue later.
[00:08:44]  That's how I got here.
[00:08:46]  And then I'm on Lionel Nation.
[00:08:48]  Well, listen, you, the thing that I, that I loved about you was that I, I love when I can talk to a lawyer because most lawyers I don't particularly care for.
[00:08:56]  Most are not trial lawyers.
[00:08:57]  Most don't have any idea what the hell I'm talking about.
[00:09:00]  And there's a difference between being able to prove it, reasonable doubt, and then what's going on in the background.
[00:09:04]  So it was great to talk to somebody about because I want to be able to teach people, and I'm sure you are too.
[00:09:10]  The procedure is great too.
[00:09:11]  You know, I got to tell you something.
[00:09:13]  The good news, if I were to, let me ask you, would you represent old Tyler?
[00:09:18]  I would.
[00:09:20]  Absolutely.
[00:09:21]  Yeah.
[00:09:21]  People keep saying, why don't you try to get on his defense team?
[00:09:23]  I'm like, A, I'm not licensed in Utah.
[00:09:25]  B, I've never tried a death penalty case.
[00:09:27]  So, I wouldn't want to do it from that perspective, but from a reasonable doubt perspective, I would love to drive a train through the hole.
[00:09:34]  It's huge.
[00:09:35]  First of all, you just go pro hoc viche, that's it.
[00:09:37]  You get some local counsel.
[00:09:39]  Number two, as far as death penalty, just get some.
[00:09:41]  Have you seen those death penalty folks?
[00:09:43]  Oh, man, they're like just, they've lost all hope.
[00:09:47]  I'm from Florida, as I usually say, where we did mass unit stuff, mass unit prosecutions, and they just, I mean, they had electric bleachers.
[00:09:55]  They were what fry people left and right.
[00:09:58]  The best.
[00:09:58]  Part.
[00:09:59]  They had collateral appeals.
[00:10:00]  It was this Office OF Collateral, whatever it was, and they represent uh, people who are given the death penalty.
[00:10:08]  And I said, what a suck job.
[00:10:10]  You lose all the time.
[00:10:11]  Have you ever won so right?
[00:10:13]  He's not going to get the chair or the or the lethal injection.
[00:10:16]  You know that it's not going to happen.
[00:10:18]  I, I tend to think he won't, but I, I go back, I go back and forth.
[00:10:23]  There are times I look at his defense name.
[00:10:24]  I'm like yes, this is good there, this is a good play here.
[00:10:26]  I like what they're doing here, and then sometimes i'll see them do something like, what are you doing?
[00:10:30]  Like, why are you doing this?
[00:10:31]  Okay, let me ask you a question.
[00:10:33]  All right.
[00:10:33]  I'm going to step out of my lawyer and I'm going to ask you just like somebody else.
[00:10:37]  I'm going to say, Bern, did he do it?
[00:10:40]  Yes or no?
[00:10:41]  No, he did not pull the trigger.
[00:10:42]  I do not believe he pulled the trigger.
[00:10:43]  Very good.
[00:10:44]  Now, let me ask his lawyer can they prove beyond a reasonable doubt and with a degree of moral certainty to the exclusion of all reasonable doubt that he pulled the trigger?
[00:10:56]  No, They're not necessarily the same, they're not.
[00:11:03]  They're not the same, but no, I don't think we can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt either.
[00:11:07]  So, what was he doing there?
[00:11:08]  What the hell was he doing there?
[00:11:09]  Or was he there?
[00:11:11]  I think he was there.
[00:11:13]  I think he was in Orem driving around.
[00:11:15]  I don't know why he was driving around.
[00:11:16]  I mean, we know he went to the Quick Quack car wash.
[00:11:19]  We know he went to the Dairy Queen.
[00:11:20]  We know he drove to Pangwich allegedly and then drove back to Orem in the middle of the night for some reason.
[00:11:27]  If we can assume his car and his phone equals him, then we can put him in those places.
[00:11:35]  Okay.
[00:11:35]  Where we can't put him is on the roof in possession of a firearm pulling a trigger that ejects a bullet into Charlie Kirk.
[00:11:44]  We can't put him there.
[00:11:46]  I think we can put him in Orem.
[00:11:47]  Yeah.
[00:11:48]  Let me ask you this question.
[00:11:50]  From the viewpoint of the, by the way, we were talking right before the show here, why this wasn't a grand jury?
[00:11:58]  If a grand jury returns a true bill, meaning indicts him, then they've already established probable cause.
[00:12:05]  There's no need for this preliminary hearing because this is a discovery.
[00:12:09]  Bonus for the defense.
[00:12:10]  They can sit back and say, What you got?
[00:12:14]  And the prosecution wants to show as little as possible because they're basically trying to show probable cause, in essence, which the best definition is he probably did it.
[00:12:23]  And that's it.
[00:12:24]  So we don't know how they could have brought a basically aggravated death penalty on a, of all things, an information, an affidavit.
[00:12:35]  I've never heard of that.
[00:12:36]  I thought it was almost, but must they prove, sir, the prosecution, that he we got to be careful, got to get that, got to get that what's that youtube language that he was unalived, he was dispatched via that particular weapon, or a weapon or any weapon, or is there any reference to how he was eliminated?
[00:13:02]  They're gonna have to prove the how.
[00:13:03]  Certainly uh and, and if they're gonna say he was shot by a gun, they're gonna have to prove a gun um, and they're gonna have.
[00:13:11]  Well, that's the thing is, they've committed already to the gun And I don't know why the prosecution would bother committing to the gun.
[00:13:17]  That was, I think, a fatal error.
[00:13:20]  Like they have probable cause without a gun.
[00:13:23]  Put the text messages up, put him in Orem, let's go home.
[00:13:25]  That's a problem we'll solve.
[00:13:27]  Okay, but we'll start with this one.
[00:13:29]  First of all, I'm the juror, and I'm going to turn to you, and I'm going to say, Mr. Prosecutor, you're showing me pictures of this rifle, this Mauser 98, with a scope.
[00:13:40]  And when you do that, I'm thinking Manic or Carcano.
[00:13:42]  I'm thinking every movie I've seen that Kyle and SEAL teams.
[00:13:50]  But you have told me, or you have not been able to tell me, that there's any indication that any round or any type of bullet from that.
[00:13:57]  Had anything to do with being deposited in the body of Charlie Kirk.
[00:14:01]  So, and I always tell people, Brad, Baron, this is a lint brush.
[00:14:06]  There's no indication this had anything to do with it either.
[00:14:09]  So, this lint brush has the same connectivity and relevance as that rifle.
[00:14:15]  So, are you going to perhaps file a motion to suppress motion in limony that says don't bring up rifles, don't bring that up?
[00:14:24]  Because if you dare try to introduce something that cannot be connected, you might as well introduce a bazooka.
[00:14:30]  Or a machine gun.
[00:14:32]  Because you see what I'm saying?
[00:14:34]  Yeah, I don't think that would survive.
[00:14:36]  I understand what you're saying.
[00:14:37]  I think that.
[00:14:39]  So there's two stages.
[00:14:40]  We have the probable cause stage, and we have the reasonable doubt stage, the trial.
[00:14:43]  For the probable cause stage, I don't even think they need to show a gun.
[00:14:46]  I don't know why.
[00:14:47]  Oh, I agree.
[00:14:48]  Yeah.
[00:14:49]  I agree.
[00:14:49]  I'm talking about the verdict, the ultimate verdict.
[00:14:52]  The verdict stage, they're going to have to show a gun, and they've got to connect it, which is why I think they're putting this fragment in play so early.
[00:15:03]  They're trying to.
[00:15:04]  prime everything so that the judge lets the gun in.
[00:15:08]  I'm sorry.
[00:15:09]  No, no, they're going to ask you.
[00:15:10]  I've got my ADD or whatever.
[00:15:13]  This fragment, are you going to, you know, Candace made a great point.
[00:15:17]  She said that there is this age old, it's almost like some medieval alchemy where they're going to be able to show based upon the metallic or the molecular, you're going to have some type of something, some object here.
[00:15:33]  Are you going to be able to show that that is, first of all, a rounded bullet and that it came from that rifle what do you mean a fragment what does that mean Well, so going to that medieval alchemy she's talking about, I think that's going to have trouble surviving a 702 hearing if they go that route because the 702 hearing gate is, is this accepted in the scientific community?
[00:15:54]  And the answer is no, it's not accepted in the scientific community.
[00:15:57]  How do we know that the FBI abandoned the use of it because it was inaccurate.
[00:16:01]  It was non predictive.
[00:16:03]  Yes.
[00:16:04]  So, you know, if the judge tosses the alchemy or the as some kind of metal analysis or whatever, proving that rounds are similar.
[00:16:12]  That might be why they're pushing so hard to get this enhanced testing on the bullet jacket fragment, because they may have in the back of their mind this metal analysis comparison is not going to pass the 702 gateway.
[00:16:26]  I'm curious if a jury would look at the metal jacket fragment, assuming they don't come up with some scam expert that says, oh, yeah, it does in fact match.
[00:16:38]  Will the jury look and say, okay, we can't definitively, we can't beyond a reasonable doubt match the metal jacket fragment to that particular rifle?
[00:16:47]  We always see on the roof is a little bitty black figurine running around.
[00:16:51]  It could be a little toddler.
[00:16:53]  It could be a grown man.
[00:16:54]  It could be a tall man, a black man, a white man.
[00:16:56]  We have no idea.
[00:16:57]  Yeah, it could be anything.
[00:16:59]  And we lost this alleged Tyler Robinson figure that we said we saw come on campus.
[00:17:04]  Then we lost him for 15 minutes.
[00:17:05]  He got off the camera for a long time.
[00:17:08]  And would that be enough for a jury to say, all right, I can't say he pulled the trigger?
[00:17:15]  Because in his confessions, he never said, I shot Charlie Kirk.
[00:17:18]  Never.
[00:17:18]  Okay, we'll get to that in one moment.
[00:17:22]  There's two parts of this.
[00:17:23]  One is the authentication of whatever this thing was, whatever this gun, we're not done with it, this rifle.
[00:17:32]  Isn't it funny, Baron, that when it was left out, that these dogs, That can smell a fish fart.
[00:17:40]  These dogs are so famous for being able to.
[00:17:42]  I mean, if there's a nanogram of anything out there, it went back and forth, back and forth, which to many people means it wasn't fired.
[00:17:50]  That's why it wasn't picked up.
[00:17:52]  It was wrapped in a towel, maybe not to smudge the prints or the other DNA of five or six other people.
[00:17:58]  But what was that all about?
[00:18:01]  Did they.
[00:18:02]  Who had that?
[00:18:03]  Is it possible for.
[00:18:04]  And we talked to Jimmy Dory the other day for Tyler to have taken this rifle, taken it apart, put it back together again?
[00:18:10]  I. Tell me how that scenario theoretically works in the light most favorable to the prosecution.
[00:18:18]  Light most favorable to the prosecution is we have not yet seen evidence that there were dogs on the scene in that particular location.
[00:18:25]  That's the light most favorable to evidence.
[00:18:27]  What we do have is the Candace Owens whistleblower who said there were dogs in that area that didn't find it.
[00:18:34]  Assuming that person shows up to testify, that would be obviously favorable to Tyler Robinson on that.
[00:18:40]  The second thing we have is now, as of last week, a text message from Tyler Robinson where he says, There's a dog sniffing the area.
[00:18:47]  I hope he has a bad sniffer.
[00:18:49]  You know, that to me is pretty compelling evidence.
[00:18:53]  If you're going to say that these Tyler Robinson text messages are legitimate, that's pretty compelling evidence that there was a dog in the area.
[00:19:00]  Now, there are two kinds of dogs on the Utah County canine team.
[00:19:06]  You have people dogs and you have bomb dogs, and those are two different dogs.
[00:19:09]  So maybe it was a people dog that was sniffing around.
[00:19:11]  He's not trained to look for firearms.
[00:19:13]  And so he didn't hit on a firearm.
[00:19:15]  So I think we need to know more information about that.
[00:19:17]  But if it's true that dogs were sniffing in the area and missed it, I think that's pretty compelling for the defense.
[00:19:26]  I don't know how you spin that in a lot of favorable to the prosecution.
[00:19:30]  I have in my crazy prediction that if everything goes right, the judge, in an abundant of caution, would say, I cannot allow you to introduce that rifle.
[00:19:42]  I can't.
[00:19:43]  I can't do it.
[00:19:45]  There's no predicate, no connection, no authentication, no nothing.
[00:19:50]  It's a rifle.
[00:19:51]  And that's going to prejudice this jury like you can't believe.
[00:19:54]  It's like that old.
[00:19:55]  That that 403 evidence, you know the probative value is outweighed by its tendency to confuse it.
[00:20:00]  I'm not going to do that.
[00:20:01]  I can't do it.
[00:20:02]  You've established nothing, so let's assume no rifle.
[00:20:07]  If there's no rifle, let's talk about the.
[00:20:09]  Here come the air.
[00:20:10]  Quotes, admission, mr Coleman.
[00:20:13]  What did he exactly admit to?
[00:20:15]  Well, he never said I shot Charlie Kirk, so that did not.
[00:20:18]  That did not happen.
[00:20:19]  And so if there's no rifle at issue and no reference to a rifle um, they're not going to be able to put on any witness that said I saw Charlie get shot.
[00:20:26]  They're not going to be able to play any of the clips of people running away saying he got shot.
[00:20:30]  He got shot.
[00:20:30]  So that would eliminate all that.
[00:20:32]  You and I disagree.
[00:20:33]  I think the judge is going to let the gun in.
[00:20:35]  And I think the nexus is the 30-odd six Springfield cartridges recovered from his bedroom or his house in St. George with a 30-odd six rifle found at the scene.
[00:20:46]  And I think that's enough for them to say, you know, it's his rifle.
[00:20:51]  It's his DNA.
[00:20:53]  There were 30-odd six Springfield cartridges at his house.
[00:20:55]  There were 30-odd six Springfield cartridges from the same batch or similar style at the scene.
[00:21:01]  That goes to weight, not sufficiency.
[00:21:02]  I don't think they're going to show that is reversible error.
[00:21:05]  That is, remember the old, was it Michigan against Tucker?
[00:21:07]  This is a defendant is entitled to a fair trial, not a perfect one.
[00:21:10]  Well, this is not perfect or fair, I think.
[00:21:13]  And also, I'm jumping ahead.
[00:21:17]  Barron, what exactly did they find in the, and we haven't seen the MEs report, the medical examiners, we haven't seen autopsy pictures, none of that stuff.
[00:21:24]  But what exactly did they find when that pathologist took out from Charlie?
[00:21:30]  What is it that he pulled from his neck, cervical area, C2 to C7, and then T1?
[00:21:36]  What is it they're going to show here?
[00:21:38]  This is what we found.
[00:21:39]  What is it?
[00:21:41]  Well, you're making an assumption that we've not yet heard.
[00:21:44]  You're assuming facts, not in evidence, counselor.
[00:21:47]  We'll be the first time.
[00:21:48]  You're assuming something was pulled from his body, and that has not been established.
[00:21:53]  What we have learned is that there were four fragments, four lead fragments, and a bullet jacket fragment recovered at the autopsy scene, but we don't know where they were, and we don't know whether it makes sense that they were shot into him.
[00:22:09]  I'm trying to avoid using any words that would get you into the whole thing, but.
[00:22:12]  Uh, we're we haven't been told that we haven't seen that we haven't seen the autopsy report, we haven't heard from the doctor, we haven't heard from the medical examiner.
[00:22:21]  So, all we know is that we have fragments recovered from we believe Charlie Kirk, uh, certainly the way the motion reads that it's Charlie Kirk, but but we don't know whether it makes sense that they were deposited there from a rifle, uh, ejection.
[00:22:38]  I'm trying my best here to um, combustion of a projectile, and yeah, in other words, what if they're what if they just What if someone just stuffed them down in the bottom of the neck right here?
[00:22:51]  And you look at an autopsy expert reviews it and says, well, that's not where that would be if this was what happened.
[00:22:57]  That's ludicrous.
[00:22:58]  I'm also curious because you brought this up.
[00:23:01]  Does it make sense where they are?
[00:23:02]  I'm curious if the defense will put on an expert that says this type of round would not have remained in his body.
[00:23:07]  Oh, First, again, I'm jumping ahead of time.
[00:23:12]  In my mind, I am going to have in this perfect world where, let's say, the judge denies all the motions to suppress, motions, let me do the whole bit.
[00:23:21]  It goes past the JOA, judgment of acquittal.
[00:23:25]  The defense has it.
[00:23:26]  One of my witnesses, in no particular order, is going to be Gunnery Sergeant Baron Coleman, United States Marine Corps.
[00:23:32]  Gunny, what do you think of that shot?
[00:23:34]  And he's going to look at you and say, Are you kidding me?
[00:23:36]  And then he's going to talk about that and how difficult it would be.
[00:23:39]  And then you're going to talk about later on the difficulty of if you were to look at this.
[00:23:45]  Like you said, the idea of a 30 out of 6 hitting this titanium bone by virtue of this great diet and clean living and not remove certain appendages is unheard of, especially when I saw the one picture from Candace, the one video behind him, there's nothing.

=== Authenticating Killer Evidence (14:42) ===

[00:24:06]  So then later on, and there's nobody to get this in, but as you know, there have been alternative theories as far as different types of lavalier microphones perhaps being used.
[00:24:17]  That's going to be tough because you have to introduce that as a theory.
[00:24:20]  So, with all of that, and somebody were to say, okay, if I can't show that this person was actually hit or whatever by something that resembles what one would call a bullet, that's almost like saying there's no connection again, irrespective of what you found at the scene with the DNA.
[00:24:43]  If I found pebbles or driveway gravel or whatever, it wouldn't matter.
[00:24:50]  We have so many paths of not only reasonable doubt, but the evidence being completely derailed.
[00:24:57]  So they're going to have to have a pretty clean case to stop all of these chances of reasonable doubt.
[00:25:04]  I think so.
[00:25:05]  I was watching actually right before I came on, about 15 minutes before I jumped on with you, I was watching a bullet expert shoot different rounds through paper plates.
[00:25:16]  So he lined up 1,000 paper plates and he shot a 22LR round into it.
[00:25:20]  It went 50 plates in or something.
[00:25:22]  And then he shot a nine millimeter and it went maybe 150 plates.
[00:25:26]  And then he shot a 556 round and it went like 300 plates.
[00:25:30]  Then he shot a 30 out six round.
[00:25:32]  It went 900 and something paper plates deep.
[00:25:35]  I mean, I'm talking eight feet of paper plates.
[00:25:38]  And were they chinette?
[00:25:40]  Just kidding.
[00:25:40]  They were good.
[00:25:41]  They were nice.
[00:25:41]  They were good, sturdy paper plates.
[00:25:43]  But what I'm saying is, it's inconceivable.
[00:25:47]  Yes.
[00:25:47]  Any person with firearms experience that this thing would enter into not directly in the middle where it would hit his.
[00:25:57]  Where it would have hit his spine, it entered off to the side a pretty good amount.
[00:26:02]  It was only at a nine degree angle.
[00:26:04]  It would have gone right beside his spine and 100 yards behind him.
[00:26:10]  And the cavitation in his neck would have just, I think, exploded it.
[00:26:14]  It would have just, I mean, the human skin only stretches so far.
[00:26:19]  And the cavitation event would have been three or four times the circumference.
[00:26:24]  And can you also see, Baron, using some type of, Of an experiment, a demonstration.
[00:26:30]  Let me show you up to and including various skulls or whatever from packing houses.
[00:26:38]  This is a steer.
[00:26:39]  This is a goat.
[00:26:40]  This is boom.
[00:26:41]  Now, jumping ahead again in no particular order, forgive me because I'm all over the place.
[00:26:47]  As you know, under every rule of evidence, before I introduce a document, I still used to use the best evidence rule.
[00:26:55]  If it's a writing, you can't be able to say, well, where's the original?
[00:26:58]  Okay, aside from that, I've got a lot of writings.
[00:27:01]  I've got a note that was found underneath the keyboard.
[00:27:04]  I found there were text messages.
[00:27:05]  There's the Discord, maybe.
[00:27:10]  Tell me what you would have to do in order to authenticate it.
[00:27:13]  I'm a defense lawyer, and I'm going to be a real jerk, and I'm going to say, you better authenticate that it came from.
[00:27:19]  Apple or Discord.
[00:27:21]  It actually went to his phone.
[00:27:23]  It wasn't just somebody took a screenshot and then texted the screenshot.
[00:27:30]  How do you authenticate Discord text messages?
[00:27:34]  And one more thing the language itself that is used.
[00:27:38]  This man was not exactly William Faulkner in terms of his ability to speak.
[00:27:42]  Some of these descriptions were very thorough.
[00:27:45]  He talked about vehicles and stuff.
[00:27:48]  So it's a bunch of loaded questions.
[00:27:49]  But how do you authenticate this stuff?
[00:27:51]  Well, I guess different ways.
[00:27:54]  One is I think the probably the best way, the most reliable way would be to get the data from Apple or get the data from Discord, bring in a records custodian and, and authenticate it that way.
[00:28:04]  That would be the easiest way.
[00:28:05]  You know, is this, was this stored in the usual and normal course of business?
[00:28:10]  Yes.
[00:28:10]  Uh, it hadn't been altered or changed.
[00:28:12]  No.
[00:28:12]  It, you know, it appears in the form in which it resided in your service.
[00:28:16]  Yes.
[00:28:16]  Okay.
[00:28:17]  We moved to, you know, introduce the evidence.
[00:28:19]  Great.
[00:28:20]  That would be ideal.
[00:28:22]  They have indicated, at least at the preliminary stage, they're not going to do that.
[00:28:27]  Which I find shocking.
[00:28:28]  What the hell are they going to do?
[00:28:31]  I'm sorry.
[00:28:33]  Where is this magic going to happen?
[00:28:37]  What must that prosecutor be thinking?
[00:28:39]  It's like, oh, for God's sake.
[00:28:41]  Is Kash Patel, is all crazy eyes going to help out?
[00:28:43]  Or the DOJ?
[00:28:45]  Seriously, we'll get to that later because I'm big boy of Shades of Parkland Hospital with that one.
[00:28:50]  But where, don't you think this judge must be saying, I don't want to look at an appeal here.
[00:28:56]  Gentlemen, gentlelady, you better have something here, and I'm not seeing it.
[00:29:00]  I'm going to bend over backwards because I'm running for office.
[00:29:04]  This is an elected position, and I'm not going to be the judge who dismisses a case against this guy, okay?
[00:29:10]  Got that straight?
[00:29:11]  But you've got to help me here.
[00:29:13]  Where's your case?
[00:29:14]  Well, for the preliminary stage, I think it's sufficient to get the screen caps and put them in.
[00:29:19]  Oh, of course.
[00:29:20]  Listen.
[00:29:21]  Yes.
[00:29:21]  And you put them in, and you get somebody up there, Tyler, to say, yep.
[00:29:26]  I mean, not Tyler, but Lance to say, yep, those are the text messages I received.
[00:29:30]  That's my phone.
[00:29:31]  That's what it looked like.
[00:29:32]  And they come in.
[00:29:34]  That's another one.
[00:29:35]  The first question I would ask Mr. Lance is, did anybody offer you immunity?
[00:29:39]  Because you're theoretically looking at, you're aiding and abetting, counseling, procuring, or hire.
[00:29:42]  You're an accomplice because this witness tampering, that's you, my friend.
[00:29:46]  For all you know, some aggressive prosecutor might say all of this stuff.
[00:29:50]  You might have been, I don't know, harboring a fugitive accessory after the fact.
[00:29:54]  Did anybody grant you any?
[00:29:56]  Have you asked for any kind of immunity?
[00:29:58]  Are you okay?
[00:29:59]  It's okay for me to ask you questions because I want the jury to hear that, because, yeah, he can say whatever he wants.
[00:30:05]  Oh, I would go one step further.
[00:30:08]  I would pause before I ask the questions.
[00:30:10]  Say they don't call Lance and I'm the first one to ask questions.
[00:30:14]  I would pause, ask the judge, do we need to advise him of his Fifth Amendment right to remain silent?
[00:30:18]  Yes, sir.
[00:30:18]  Yes, yes, yes.
[00:30:19]  Yeah.
[00:30:19]  You know, hey, I don't want to violate his constitutional rights.
[00:30:22]  Has anyone advised him of his Fifth Amendment right to remain silent?
[00:30:26]  Because, especially in front of a jury, I think that would be an effective tool because the jury will wait a minute.
[00:30:30]  What are you talking about?
[00:30:31]  Why would we need to advise him of that?
[00:30:32]  Now, they may file a motion in limine to prevent me from asking that, but I would ask.
[00:30:37]  If they don't, I'm going to ask it.
[00:30:40]  And then perhaps, yes, ask the immunity question.
[00:30:44]  How is it you're able to cooperate without?
[00:30:49]  I don't know.
[00:30:50]  I think for the preliminary stage, Lance comes in.
[00:30:53]  He says, That's my phone.
[00:30:57]  That's it.
[00:30:58]  I'm talking about the trial.
[00:30:59]  Because it's going to survive the preliminary stage.
[00:31:01]  It's just going to.
[00:31:02]  Of course it is.
[00:31:04]  It's going to.
[00:31:04]  There's no way they're going to kill this now.
[00:31:06]  It's also going to survive a JOA.
[00:31:08]  It's going to go to the defense, and the judge is going to say, Let the jury.
[00:31:13]  When it goes to the jury, whatever they do, that's the judges out.
[00:31:17]  Let them decide.
[00:31:18]  Don't look at me.
[00:31:19]  Of course, this appellate record for error is going to be another story, but he's not worried about that.
[00:31:25]  But in terms of this fellow, did clear me up, clear me up.
[00:31:31]  What exactly, in the light most favorable to the prosecution, what exactly was Tyler trying to say to his girlfriend, trans, woolly, whatever?
[00:31:44]  Get the rifle.
[00:31:45]  I'm sorry.
[00:31:46]  I love you.
[00:31:47]  Don't talk to anybody.
[00:31:48]  But here I am talking.
[00:31:50]  Did any of that make any sense to you?
[00:31:53]  In the light most favorable to the prosecution, yes, because he's obviously believed he's confessed to something.
[00:32:00]  Otherwise, he's not telling the guy not to say anything.
[00:32:04]  He did say that Lance at one time said, Don't tell me it was you.
[00:32:08]  Yes, it was me.
[00:32:09]  Or was this you?
[00:32:10]  Yes, it was me.
[00:32:11]  And so, you know, again, at the preliminary stage, we just can look at that and say, Sure.
[00:32:17]  But when we go to the jury, it's not the light most favorable to the prosecution.
[00:32:21]  That's no longer the standard.
[00:32:22]  It's beyond reasonable doubt.
[00:32:24]  So, if anything, it's the light most favorable to the defendant at the jury stage.
[00:32:29]  And so now you look at a could any reasonable person sitting there to any reasonable degree of legal certainty harbor doubt, harbor reasonable doubt that Tyler might have been confessing to something else?
[00:32:43]  You know, yes, it was me.
[00:32:44]  I was part of something.
[00:32:45]  I was part of something greater.
[00:32:47]  I delivered a weapon to a scene.
[00:32:49]  I. You know, I was a getaway driver.
[00:32:51]  I was, you know, whatever.
[00:32:54]  I think Tyler might have to testify if that's the case.
[00:32:57]  That's my next question.
[00:32:58]  That's my next question.
[00:33:00]  Oh, dear.
[00:33:02]  Because I would love to sit there and say, now, son, let me tell you something.
[00:33:05]  You probably have heard this.
[00:33:07]  Defendants never testify, but you got nothing to lose here, my friend.
[00:33:10]  You got nothing to lose here.
[00:33:12]  And I also want, I'm not going to tell him, but I want the jury to see how kind of unsophisticated you are, kind of gullible you are, because he looks kind of a little slow.
[00:33:24]  And if they hear this, they're going to say, this is the mastermind.
[00:33:29]  Sure, it is possible he didn't know what was going on, because the theory would be, what if he were to testify?
[00:33:33]  He says, listen, I'll tell you one thing.
[00:33:34]  I was there.
[00:33:35]  But I did not bring that weapon.
[00:33:37]  I did not fire.
[00:33:38]  I don't know.
[00:33:38]  All of a sudden, I hear a crack of a rifle.
[00:33:40]  Of course, it's going to be a 30 odd six.
[00:33:42]  It's going to be consistent because whoever did fire, that's going to use a 30 odd six.
[00:33:46]  And that's going to be, but there's no grooves and all that stuff.
[00:33:50]  But he's going to be able to say, I had no idea.
[00:33:53]  I don't know what this is.
[00:33:54]  I don't know what's going on.
[00:33:56]  And then the latest one is his, I'm going to turn myself in business.
[00:34:01]  We'll get to that in a moment versus Goodbye Cruel World, Top of the World Ma, where they thought it was going to be by cop.
[00:34:09]  That theory, that version was thwarted.
[00:34:12]  So, walk us through that one.
[00:34:15]  Well, so you've asked a lot there.
[00:34:18]  So, let me back up a little bit.
[00:34:21]  Does Tyler testify?
[00:34:23]  I think he does.
[00:34:25]  I've had cases where we had our defendant testify.
[00:34:28]  Sometimes it's gone well, sometimes it's gone poorly.
[00:34:31]  Sometimes they insist on testifying over your advice not to testify.
[00:34:35]  I had one in Atlanta that way, or out in suburban Atlanta, where we told the guy, if you testify, this is going to be an absolute disaster.
[00:34:41]  And there was no impeachment defense.
[00:34:42]  He was just a terrible human being.
[00:34:44]  Well, I shouldn't say that about him.
[00:34:45]  He was just a bad witness.
[00:34:48]  And I knew it was going to go poorly.
[00:34:50]  We begged him not to testify, and he did, and he was convicted.
[00:34:53]  And I thought the trial was going pretty well up until that moment.
[00:34:56]  I would be interested if he doesn't testify, how the judge would handle that colloquy.
[00:35:02]  Because this is a case where there's so much attention.
[00:35:07]  You have to make sure he doesn't come back on appeal and say, I didn't know I was waiving this right.
[00:35:14]  You have to really, you're going to have to really nail this down.
[00:35:17]  So I think the colloquy is going to have to be extremely detailed.
[00:35:21]  You understand that this is your only shot.
[00:35:24]  You will never get to testify again.
[00:35:26]  You don't get a chance on appeal to say anything.
[00:35:28]  Like this is it.
[00:35:29]  You talk here or you hold your breath for the rest of your life.
[00:35:33]  So, does he testify?
[00:35:34]  I think he does.
[00:35:36]  Particularly if his case is, I didn't confess to my parents I killed somebody.
[00:35:42]  I implied I was involved in something that was bigger than me and I was scared to death and I didn't want to talk about it.
[00:35:49]  And I was afraid that there'd be a knock at the door.
[00:35:51]  Some guy comes in and I've got red dots all over me and I want to make sure that didn't happen because I was turning myself in not to confess, but to save myself.
[00:36:01]  And where's the confession?
[00:36:03]  Imagine this.
[00:36:04]  He comes in, he's Miranda's.
[00:36:05]  Where's the confession?
[00:36:07]  There is none.
[00:36:08]  Where's the video?
[00:36:09]  Look, everybody who spent any amount of time on YouTube, as I do, watching people confess, it's my hobby.
[00:36:16]  You've seen a million times.
[00:36:18]  Would you sign this?
[00:36:19]  Are you signing this because anybody promised you anything in any way?
[00:36:23]  Would you sign this here?
[00:36:24]  You understand that the right to remain silent?
[00:36:26]  Yes.
[00:36:26]  You're sure about this.
[00:36:27]  And as you know, Baron, people who really want to tell, they will talk.
[00:36:31]  It's the weirdest thing.
[00:36:33]  They will say, I want to tell you.
[00:36:35]  So he turns himself in and goes, You know what?
[00:36:38]  There's something I'm forgetting.
[00:36:40]  What the hell is it?
[00:36:41]  I'll think about it later.
[00:36:42]  Oh, yeah, confessing.
[00:36:44]  I forgot.
[00:36:45]  Including now, they say, What is this 30 day rule?
[00:36:49]  Is this spoliation?
[00:36:50]  Is this some kind of a destruction of the evidence of all this?
[00:36:55]  Sounds like the NASA thing.
[00:36:56]  Like, you know, we had those moon tapes, but doggone it, they were we had to use over them, and I don't want to bring that up.
[00:37:03]  But how did we get past that one?
[00:37:07]  Um, as far as him turning himself in, the fact that there's no confession.
[00:37:12]  Well, that's good.
[00:37:13]  They're going to have trouble getting past that.
[00:37:15]  I think they, they, let's just assume for the sake of argument, he was set up and it was a frame job.
[00:37:21]  The, the picture of the confession note is probably their money evidence.
[00:37:26]  That's probably what they're going on because the text messages don't explicitly confess to murdering Charlie Kirk.
[00:37:32]  They just confess to being involved.
[00:37:34]  It was me who did it.
[00:37:36]  Did it is not particularly specific.
[00:37:41]  And so I think they'll have trouble, you know, calling those things confessions.
[00:37:48]  Tell me the form of the confession.
[00:37:51]  Is it written?
[00:37:52]  Is it a text?
[00:37:53]  What is it?
[00:37:54]  Well, we don't know what it says.
[00:37:56]  Well, actually, we have some of it, but it was a letter, allegedly.
[00:37:59]  I don't know if it's on notebook paper or the back of an envelope, but he wrote on some object apparently Luna, my love, whatever.
[00:38:08]  I had a chance to take out Charlie Kirk and I'm going to take it.
[00:38:11]  The problem even with that is you might argue he's just part of a grander conspiracy.
[00:38:17]  He might get up there and say, Yeah, I had a chance to take him out.
[00:38:20]  But I wasn't going to be the trigger man.
[00:38:22]  I was the getaway driver.
[00:38:23]  I was the guy planting the gun at the scene so they could pick it up.
[00:38:26]  I was this.
[00:38:26]  I was that.
[00:38:27]  I was the guy who walked on.
[00:38:29]  I mean, this would be killer evidence or killer testimony.
[00:38:31]  No, put it down.
[00:38:33]  Yeah, I walked into the building with the gun.
[00:38:36]  And then I changed out of those clothes and put on the other guy's clothes who was in there waiting to take the shot.
[00:38:42]  I put on his clothes and walked out a side door.
[00:38:45]  He climbed the stairs, went out and took the shot.

=== Cameras in the Courtroom (11:00) ===

[00:38:48]  And so I was as shocked as anybody when they started pinning this on me.
[00:38:51]  I mean, if he says something like that, what the hell's the jury going to do with that?
[00:38:55]  Because now they have to go back and look at the little bitty grainy image and say, is Tyler Robinson capable of being that little bitty grainy image?
[00:39:01]  Yeah, maybe, but beyond a reasonable doubt, I don't know.
[00:39:04]  And could he swing from the building on one hand with his fingertips and jump 15 feet to the ground and scurry away?
[00:39:10]  He sure doesn't look like it to me.
[00:39:12]  And what about the actual?
[00:39:14]  It's funny you say that, but going back to this, there is no.
[00:39:20]  Is there a lesser included for conspiracy for this?
[00:39:24]  I mean, they didn't charge him with it.
[00:39:26]  So if you said, oh, no, I was.
[00:39:28]  See, there's something great about somebody who said, oh, I'll tell you what I did.
[00:39:32]  Oh, no, I'm a nut.
[00:39:33]  I'm a nut.
[00:39:34]  I'm crazy.
[00:39:35]  I was there.
[00:39:36]  I got nuts over this, my girlfriend, and I'm going crazy.
[00:39:40]  And I was going to do it because I hated that guy and I hate all these people.
[00:39:43]  But I didn't do this.
[00:39:45]  And let me see that paper I wrote.
[00:39:48]  I didn't write this.
[00:39:49]  It's not my handwriting.
[00:39:50]  And then you get, do you ever see these graphologists who go in there and they do the exemplars and the pressure?
[00:39:55]  Oh my God.
[00:39:56]  I don't know where this is from.
[00:39:57]  I'm going to go one step further.
[00:39:59]  Now let's, remember, let's take the courtroom and then let's go to Kansas Land.
[00:40:05]  That's where I like to live, where I can just say anything.
[00:40:08]  What if somebody says, I'm going to pick up the phone and say, hey, Tim Cook, yeah.
[00:40:13]  You know that thing I was talking about?
[00:40:14]  That guy, yeah.
[00:40:15]  Can you fix it?
[00:40:16]  Oh, absolutely.
[00:40:17]  Can you make it look like this?
[00:40:19]  Assuming it was an Apple or Android.
[00:40:21]  Can you make it look like this guy said this?
[00:40:24]  Sure.
[00:40:25]  It goes from his phone?
[00:40:26]  Absolutely.
[00:40:27]  Will this withstand some kind of scrutiny, chain of custody?
[00:40:31]  Without a doubt.
[00:40:32]  I'll make it say anything I want.
[00:40:34]  I could have him confessing to the Lindbergh baby, whatever you want.
[00:40:38]  And then you start telling people, you know, today they say a picture's worth a thousand words, but after AI, my friends, that means anything.
[00:40:45]  And have people say, you know, you're right about that.
[00:40:47]  I'm not even sure about any of this stuff.
[00:40:51]  Where did this?
[00:40:51]  Now, as we, as the actual, the individual, let's jump a little bit.
[00:40:58]  What about the reaction?
[00:41:00]  Well, I'm sorry, I'm jumping ahead.
[00:41:02]  If I said, okay, Baron, I want you, I'm going to give you the witness list of a, just give me your wish list.
[00:41:10]  Who would you call?
[00:41:12]  Name your witnesses, you would call in your defense.
[00:41:15]  As the defendant, gosh, this is hard because, We don't have enough to know what they're going to say.
[00:41:21]  And so I don't know that I can say that right now.
[00:41:26]  I mean, obviously, my mom and dad, and they would probably be my top two witnesses.
[00:41:32]  I didn't confess to them.
[00:41:34]  Okay.
[00:41:35]  You know, because the problem cause affidavit said he implied to them he did it.
[00:41:42]  Okay.
[00:41:43]  Let me be a little nuts here.
[00:41:44]  Let's say, well, let's have some fun.
[00:41:46]  And this may not make any sense.
[00:41:47]  And I don't know.
[00:41:48]  Perhaps you can correct me with this.
[00:41:50]  But after this thing happened, there's a lot of people standing around there.
[00:41:54]  See, I don't think anybody, personally, I don't think anybody from TPUSA or anybody knew what was going to happen because the last place I'm going to be standing is next to some guy who's about to get a 30-odd sixth round.
[00:42:03]  I'm not going to be anywhere near that.
[00:42:05]  But I will say, you know what I find funny, Mr. So and so, maybe I can give you the name.
[00:42:10]  Is that you in that video?
[00:42:11]  Is that you pulling the SD card out of the phone?
[00:42:14]  What was that all about?
[00:42:15]  What about the reactions?
[00:42:17]  What about the timing?
[00:42:19]  What about not to suggest they had anything to do with it, but to give this jury this fetid funk like this case stinks?
[00:42:30]  Not only does the defendant not make sense or the accomplice, but the people who worked with him.
[00:42:37]  This is weird.
[00:42:38]  It's like nobody's acting normally.
[00:42:40]  See what I'm saying?
[00:42:41]  It's strange.
[00:42:43]  If you could do that, if you can control what they're going to say, then Dan Flood, because I want to know why you stepped forward and did this.
[00:42:50]  But ideally, Dan Flood gets called on direct by the prosecution and you can then cross examine him.
[00:42:58]  You stepped forward, right?
[00:42:59]  Yes, I did.
[00:43:00]  You extended your right arm, didn't you?
[00:43:02]  Yes.
[00:43:03]  And you touched your left hand to your right bicep, didn't you?
[00:43:07]  Yes.
[00:43:08]  And within 300 milliseconds after that, we heard this loud blast, right?
[00:43:12]  Yes.
[00:43:12]  And then you looked over and Charlie Cook had been taken down, right?
[00:43:16]  Yes.
[00:43:16]  Okay, that's it.
[00:43:17]  And then I'm going to wait and I'm going to go into closing and I'm going to explain my theory about what that means.
[00:43:22]  I just want him on the record explaining it.
[00:43:24]  And then I'll have pictures of it and then I'll have a video of it.
[00:43:27]  And then on closing, I'll get up there and say, don't tell me he was not involved because that's the weirdest thing I've ever seen a human being do.
[00:43:34]  That is the weirdest thing I've ever seen a human being do.
[00:43:37]  Let me give you my trial lawyer lint brush award.
[00:43:41]  That is exactly the way you do cross examination.
[00:43:45]  Yes or no?
[00:43:45]  Remember Irving Younger?
[00:43:47]  Yes or no?
[00:43:48]  Isn't it true?
[00:43:49]  Isn't it true?
[00:43:49]  What were you, third base coach?
[00:43:51]  What is a steal?
[00:43:52]  Yes or no?
[00:43:54]  Thank you very much.
[00:43:55]  And then in closing, you say, Now do you know what that meant?
[00:43:59]  Then you argue.
[00:44:00]  Oh, absolutely.
[00:44:03]  And have that jury say, This is weird because, you know, I'm going to jump again.
[00:44:09]  Because I'm psychotic this way.
[00:44:12]  Cameras in the courtroom, yes or no?
[00:44:18]  I believe the judge is predisposed to let the cameras in the trial and probably will defer to the defense and keep them out of the preliminary stages.
[00:44:28]  If I had to guess where he'll fall.
[00:44:30]  What do you feel about that in general as a lawyer and citizen?
[00:44:34]  What do you think about cameras in the courtroom?
[00:44:35]  Good or bad?
[00:44:36]  I think generally they're good.
[00:44:38]  I wish more courtrooms allowed cameras.
[00:44:41]  I know a lot of venues just don't permit them at all.
[00:44:44]  Some whole states don't permit them at all.
[00:44:46]  I think generally speaking, they're good.
[00:44:48]  You know, there's the obvious OJ example of where the courtroom sort of became a theater and the judge started acting different over the course of the trial.
[00:45:03]  Yeah.
[00:45:03]  Oh, yeah.
[00:45:04]  Yeah.
[00:45:04]  Bailiff became a celebrity.
[00:45:06]  I mean, so you have these issues that arise with cameras in the courtroom.
[00:45:10]  But.
[00:45:12]  I'll say this.
[00:45:13]  I tried a case during on a military base during an orange alert.
[00:45:20]  I don't know if you remember the little red, yellow, green, orange.
[00:45:23]  Well, on orange, citizens weren't allowed on the base.
[00:45:27]  Like you had to be a military person or there for a particular reason.
[00:45:30]  You couldn't just wander in.
[00:45:32]  But even in the military, even on a code orange, even when the base was shut down, if you showed up to the gate and said, I'm here to watch a trial that's about to, a criminal trial is about to take place, they would let you in.
[00:45:44]  They might escort you to the courtroom, they'd let you in.
[00:45:46]  Because generally speaking, we are not North Korea.
[00:45:49]  We're not China.
[00:45:49]  We're not Cuba.
[00:45:50]  We don't try people behind closed doors.
[00:45:52]  We have to have the public be able to observe speedy and public trial.
[00:45:57]  Absolutely.
[00:45:58]  Sixth Amendment.
[00:45:59]  Absolutely.
[00:45:59]  And so some courtrooms only have two pews, some have 100.
[00:46:04]  So the courtroom is the ability for the public to observe the fair trial process is dictated by how big the courtroom is, how many family members the guy wants to bring in, how many family members the victim wants to bring in.
[00:46:16]  That limits the amount of public that can come in.
[00:46:18]  It limits the amount of press that can come in.
[00:46:20]  Whereas if you just put a pool camera in there, and I've tried a case with a pool camera, you know, it allows the courtroom to be as big as you want it to be.
[00:46:30]  If you want to have 40,000 people watch, they can watch.
[00:46:32]  If you want 100,000 people to watch, they can watch.
[00:46:34]  And if nobody cares, they don't watch.
[00:46:36]  So I like the camera in a courtroom from a public policy perspective.
[00:46:42]  But I do worry about the fact that people start acting differently the moment a camera comes on.
[00:46:48]  But let me be honest with you.
[00:46:49]  As you know, you've seen sometimes, people can go to any courthouse they want in their own town.
[00:46:55]  They can just, I knew people, you probably know people, they just showed up.
[00:46:59]  And you could see some boring case and all of a sudden the door opens up and some lawyer all of a sudden, oh, and then he's left and I do believe that all of a sudden they start acting just by somebody who's watching.
[00:47:09]  So yeah, there's a certain effect of that.
[00:47:12]  Here's another question.
[00:47:13]  If you were the defense, would you have already called Candace, Candace Owens?
[00:47:18]  Would you have called you?
[00:47:19]  Would you have called all of these incredible deep divers and investigators to say, tell me what you know that may be what I'm missing?
[00:47:29]  Not as co counsel, but tell me what you think.
[00:47:32]  You know this intimately.
[00:47:34]  Candace knows it intimately.
[00:47:37]  Maybe she has.
[00:47:38]  I don't know.
[00:47:38]  I've never heard this.
[00:47:39]  But I'd be on that phone so fast.
[00:47:43]  And I would ask you and Candace, what would you ask or what do you want me to know that you know?
[00:47:50]  Agree or disagree?
[00:47:52]  Agree.
[00:47:53]  I've made a commitment to my audience.
[00:47:54]  If they call me, I will tell them they called.
[00:47:56]  And that may be why they don't call because they don't want to be known as calling.
[00:48:01]  Now, if they called me and they said, hey, we'd like to talk to you.
[00:48:03]  And the first thing I say is, hey, just know that if we agree to talk, I will not tell anyone you called me to date to this point.
[00:48:11]  But if we agree to continue talking, I'm at least going to alert the audience you've called me.
[00:48:15]  Because I do take my job fairly seriously in terms of wanting to be taken as a credible person.
[00:48:22]  And what I don't want to be seen as is somebody who's working with the defense to spring a criminal defendant free while simultaneously covering it and asking to be taken seriously.
[00:48:34]  And so I would at least offer them that.
[00:48:36]  I would say, I'll be happy to talk to you.
[00:48:38]  I won't tell my audience what we talked about, but I will alert them that I've had a conversation with you.
[00:48:43]  And that might be the end of the conversation.
[00:48:44]  They may not want to go forward at that point.
[00:48:46]  You know, Baron, as you know, that whenever you're a member of the bar, I'm a member of the Florida, New York, New Jersey, and DC bar, federal and all this stuff, Supreme Court and all that jazz.
[00:48:56]  And whenever they swear you in, they always say, Do you swallow me swear to defend and uphold the Constitution?
[00:49:04]  And I would suggest and I would submit that being a lawyer, being somebody who believes in the Constitution, it doesn't mean I'm only going to support the Constitution if somebody's paying me.
[00:49:13]  But if I'm able to do something, if I'm a doctor and I'm able to lend expertise, if I know something, I would have absolutely no problem with it.
[00:49:20]  Tell somebody whatever it is to give you my suggestions.
[00:49:23]  Yeah, I'm not going to be second-chairing anybody, but because you have been able to, because as you know, dear friend, the critical part of this is knowing exactly what the facts are.
[00:49:35]  If you know the facts, that's it.
[00:49:38]  It's not about legal theory and all this kind of jazz.
[00:49:41]  Now, my friend, the biggest question of them all: Are they going to call Erica Kirk?
[00:49:47]  Yes.

=== Performance Under Pressure (15:18) ===

[00:49:48]  And how do you handle that cross-examination, sir?
[00:49:53]  Delicately.
[00:49:55]  Very delicately.
[00:49:57]  I may or may not even ask a question.
[00:49:59]  I'm so Tell me why you would, and I'll tell you why I would.
[00:50:04]  I would not.
[00:50:06]  The worst thing you do with cross examination is the worst thing you can do is aid the other side.
[00:50:16]  Exactly.
[00:50:17]  The spouse of the decedent has tremendous capacity to aid the other side if she starts coming off as a sympathetic person.
[00:50:26]  This is a woman that we've watched time and time again walk on stage.
[00:50:31]  You never know what you're going to get.
[00:50:32]  Sometimes she's the mopey, whatever.
[00:50:34]  Sometimes she's up to fireworks.
[00:50:36]  Um, sometimes it looks like a WWE entrance, but what we know is like at the funeral, yeah.
[00:50:43]  She is manipulative, um, she is calculated, cold.
[00:50:49]  Um, and if she felt like she needed to turn on the tears while you're cross examining her to make you look like a horrible human being, she's going to pull up that magic hanky so fast.
[00:50:59]  What I want is a question on cross examination what do you want her to say?
[00:51:03]  Like, you know, yes, no questions.
[00:51:05]  What can I get out of her that's going to help my kids?
[00:51:08]  Bless you.
[00:51:08]  The first rule of cross-examination is don't.
[00:51:11]  Don't.
[00:51:12]  It's their witness.
[00:51:13]  It's their witness.
[00:51:15]  Get him off.
[00:51:16]  Get him off.
[00:51:17]  Did you ever see Jerry Spence?
[00:51:18]  He was great.
[00:51:19]  He'd always say, Mr. Coleman, thank you so much for being with us today.
[00:51:24]  We appreciate you taking time out.
[00:51:26]  Thank you, sir.
[00:51:27]  Like he invited you.
[00:51:28]  You say, I got a subpoena.
[00:51:29]  What the hell are you talking about?
[00:51:30]  But now we said, thank you very much.
[00:51:33]  Your Honor, I don't need to.
[00:51:35]  I think we're doing just fine.
[00:51:37]  Thank you, sir.
[00:51:37]  You have a good day.
[00:51:38]  And something like that.
[00:51:40]  The best thing I, every now and then, every now and then, with a mother, the mother says, Mrs. Coleman, yeah, this is your son, right?
[00:51:49]  And you wouldn't want to see anything bad happen to him now, would you?
[00:51:53]  Thank you, man.
[00:51:53]  Boom.
[00:51:54]  That's it.
[00:51:54]  That's it.
[00:51:55]  I said my piece.
[00:51:56]  Yeah.
[00:51:56]  Exactly with her.
[00:51:58]  She's not, you don't want her.
[00:51:59]  In fact, it's the ultimate insult.
[00:52:02]  She's going to say, what?
[00:52:04]  What?
[00:52:05]  Because she knows you don't want me?
[00:52:07]  No, thank you.
[00:52:08]  And you make a sign that it's gracious, not that you're sparing her.
[00:52:13]  You don't need her.
[00:52:15]  It's a big difference.
[00:52:16]  Not like, I don't want to, you know, it's like, no, no, you know, how that's phrased, I don't know.
[00:52:22]  Because, but then again, that sick part of me, that sick part of me says, if she takes that stand or takes a stand, she'll do it all for you.
[00:52:32]  You won't have to cross examine anything.
[00:52:34]  You'll just say, don't look at me.
[00:52:36]  This is where you move your chair back and say, no, no, folks, look at this.
[00:52:39]  Don't look at me.
[00:52:40]  Watch this.
[00:52:41]  Because, and I'm not trying to be mean, she doesn't know what she puts out.
[00:52:46]  Is disconnected from thought reality, it's performative, it's almost like okay, courtroom sent to action, you know.
[00:52:56]  Uh, CBS News, uh, Barry Weiss, action, uh, JD Vance, action.
[00:53:02]  She has these, she's like doing the matinee performance, she knows what she's going to do.
[00:53:07]  And I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna trash her any more than that has to be.
[00:53:11]  She may do all the work for you, and the prosecution is going to say, What am I going to ask?
[00:53:17]  What.
[00:53:18]  What identification of the body?
[00:53:21]  What is she going to add in sentencing?
[00:53:24]  Maybe, perhaps, yeah, yeah, yeah, for impact and all that.
[00:53:27]  But what issues can she shore up?
[00:53:32]  What that somebody else can't.
[00:53:35]  I don't know.
[00:53:36]  I mean, it may be, you know, duplicative witness, but, you know, she could get in there and say, yeah, that's my husband.
[00:53:42]  And I mean, that's him.
[00:53:45]  I had to, how did you know it was him?
[00:53:46]  Well, I had to go in and identify him.
[00:53:48]  So how do we stipulate?
[00:53:50]  We stipulate to the identity.
[00:53:51]  You don't mind, Your Honor?
[00:53:52]  There's no need for this.
[00:53:53]  We will stipulate without any doubt, no need.
[00:53:56]  We're going to save this poor woman, please.
[00:53:58]  She suffered enough.
[00:54:01]  She's already crying.
[00:54:03]  She's gotten out of her what they need.
[00:54:04]  So, you know, when she's crying, because you're denying her a performance.
[00:54:08]  Now, I'm not saying that.
[00:54:10]  And by the way, let me just say something right off the bat.
[00:54:12]  I don't have any, I never had, and this is just kind of come to Jesus moment, I never had any moment where I suspected anything from her other than pity.
[00:54:22]  I never, what got me, this has nothing to do with the trial, was when she lay atop of Charlie in the casket.
[00:54:29]  I thought, oh, you've got to be kidding.
[00:54:30]  And the second thing was that six day later, that Zoom call, hey guys, when she's talking about merch sales and this weird kind of Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross, you know, coffees for closers.
[00:54:40]  Let's go, go, go.
[00:54:41]  I want the hat sales.
[00:54:42]  Come on, you can do it.
[00:54:43]  Candace was so right when she juxtaposed Kobe Bryant's wife, who said, I can't talk right now.
[00:54:50]  And she didn't follow up with, and by the way, that's Lakers season tickets, Lakers.com, Lakers.
[00:54:54]  It was, and you would think, I would hope somebody at TPUSA is saying, Oh no, am I seeing this?
[00:55:00]  Am I seeing this?
[00:55:01]  Is she doing this?
[00:55:03]  I don't think she has any, any, any, that's when I realized, Oh my God.
[00:55:10]  And it's not hate, I don't hate her, I don't hate her, anything like that.
[00:55:13]  I don't think she had anything to do with this.
[00:55:14]  I'm not suggesting.
[00:55:16]  But you know, and I don't, whenever you see there's a new video, oh, I run to it.
[00:55:20]  I mean, I run to it.
[00:55:22]  Well, so take it in stages.
[00:55:24]  The first few days, um, I was talking with several people behind the scenes, and we were, you know, guessing who was going to take over TPUSA.
[00:55:32]  And names like Tyler Boyer came up, names like Benny Johnson came up, Ben Shapiro.
[00:55:37]  I mean, just different people like basically who can be the face of this thing?
[00:55:41]  You know, the thing kind of runs on its own, but who can be the face of this thing?
[00:55:43]  Go out there on college courses, rah rah, whatever.
[00:55:47]  Someone mentioned Erica Kirk and I was like, who?
[00:55:51]  And they were like, his wife.
[00:55:52]  And I was like, oh, I didn't know, you know, I never really thought of her.
[00:55:54]  And then I saw the video of her leaned over the casket and I thought, why?
[00:56:01]  Why was someone recording that?
[00:56:02]  And whose idea was it to release it?
[00:56:04]  That's weird.
[00:56:06]  And instantly I had this like visceral, gut visceral reaction.
[00:56:10]  Like, if something happened to someone I love and I'm mourning and you take a video of me, that is the end.
[00:56:16]  We are never going to speak again.
[00:56:18]  I am certainly not going to post it to my social media.
[00:56:21]  That is, it was so weird.
[00:56:26]  I would have reenacted Sonny Corleone at Connie's wedding where he breaks the camera and gives him 20 bucks.
[00:56:33]  Are you nuts?
[00:56:34]  First of all, what is this?
[00:56:36]  And you can almost hear, like, did you get that?
[00:56:38]  Do it again?
[00:56:39]  Okay, do it from the top.
[00:56:41]  Yeah.
[00:56:42]  I could not believe it.
[00:56:43]  And then the immediate, this giddy, look, I don't want to go into it because we can talk about this later, but the giddy performance, they were, listen to me.
[00:56:58]  And I'm not going to get really small to you here, but I think there's one reason why I want to do this is because somebody's got to think about somebody's got to honestly God think about Charlie.
[00:57:07]  Yeah.
[00:57:08]  What about justice for him?
[00:57:09]  Now, another question.
[00:57:12]  As you know, speedy trial, sixth amendment, speeding the public trial, normally it applies to the defendant.
[00:57:18]  Utah has got this kind of an advisory thing where you as a victim can, can ask the judge maybe for sentencing considerations or scheduling or, and there's nothing wrong with that.
[00:57:29]  Can you?
[00:57:29]  Can you, can you, but it, but it does not overpower or outweigh that, Barry?
[00:57:34]  Do you think it's a bit, a bit awkward?
[00:57:36]  She says, I forgive, as I'm doing my Jimmy swaggering, I have sinned, I forgive you, but speak up, let's go, come on, let's go.
[00:57:45]  It was a bit, you think you would say, take all the time Charlie would have wanted to make sure that he has afforded and accorded all of the rights under the Constitution, and now let the courts handle this.
[00:57:55]  That's it, that's fine.
[00:57:57]  Do you think it was a bit inconsistent, this concomitant?
[00:58:00]  I forgive you, but let's go, go, go.
[00:58:02]  I want to schedule.
[00:58:04]  I think it's weird.
[00:58:05]  She just had four lawyers file a notice of appearance to, yeah, to insist on a, I honestly don't know because the judge already heard her motion on the speed of trial of the victim's representative.
[00:58:17]  So I don't know why she's hiring four lawyers.
[00:58:20]  It's, it's, it's a very, very, in my opinion, unprecedented move.
[00:58:26]  I've never heard this is, I honestly, I thought people were reporting it incorrectly.
[00:58:31]  When they started saying Erica filed a motion for speedy trial, I thought, no, no, no, that's not how that works.
[00:58:35]  Right, right.
[00:58:36]  Defendant, they must be dragging their heels.
[00:58:38]  Let me read it.
[00:58:38]  You pull it up and look at it.
[00:58:39]  You're like, yeah, she did.
[00:58:40]  That's the weirdest thing I've ever heard.
[00:58:42]  I had no idea this quirk in the law existed in Utah.
[00:58:44]  But then when she had three lawyers from out of state file a pro hoc Vichy app, or no, three from in state and then one from out of state file pro hoc, and all four of them file a notice of appearance on her behalf as the victim representative, I thought, are they worried this is spiraling out of control?
[00:59:01]  Are they trying to get in so that they can talk to the prosecution?
[00:59:04]  control the outcome of evidence and hey, look over there.
[00:59:08]  Hey, downplay this.
[00:59:10]  I was talking to somebody today, Lionel.
[00:59:14]  And I said, do you think we would still be investigating this seven plus months later if Erica Kirk had done like Jackie Kennedy and just gone away?
[00:59:25]  You know, Jackie Kennedy showed up to throw the champagne into the side of the boat after her husband.
[00:59:31]  She showed up to light the eternal flame.
[00:59:34]  She showed up for an award, I think, from some former president.
[00:59:37]  Other than that, She was nowhere to be found.
[00:59:41]  Exactly.
[00:59:42]  Then it still was too much.
[00:59:43]  So she goes and marry a billionaire so she has the funds to live overseas.
[00:59:47]  I mean, it's because she's worried about the safety of her and her children primarily.
[00:59:52]  Yeah.
[00:59:52]  Which is one of the reasons.
[00:59:53]  Oh, absolutely.
[00:59:54]  Something, look, you know, and I know that there's this thing called jury appeal.
[01:00:02]  I had a case one time that was the easiest prosecution ever.
[01:00:06]  I'm not going to go into the specifics of it, but I mean, this.
[01:00:11]  This guy was, I mean, how he was alive, he lost virtually every spot of blood in his body in this aggravated battery.
[01:00:19]  The defendant looked like this little angel and this guy looked like Lurch.
[01:00:24]  And that jury said, uh-uh.
[01:00:26]  Even though the facts of the case, people are weird.
[01:00:30]  And sometimes things connect and sometimes they don't.
[01:00:34]  And I don't know why.
[01:00:35]  Next question for you.
[01:00:37]  Do you think it is at all possible to find a county in Utah that's never heard of Charlie Kirk?
[01:00:46]  And would you want them?
[01:00:48]  Yeah, that's not the standard.
[01:00:50]  The standard is.
[01:00:52]  Yeah, can they be fair and impartial?
[01:00:54]  Um, and and I think in Utah County, you can probably pick a jury.
[01:00:58]  I'm not that worried about venue, um, particularly since neither one of them are from there.
[01:01:03]  It's not like a favored son thing, it's just a crime that happened to take place there.
[01:01:07]  One's from out of state, one's from almost out of state.
[01:01:09]  So, uh, both people live uh three and a half to seven hours away.
[01:01:14]  I don't think it's that big of a deal.
[01:01:16]  I've heard people make a big deal.
[01:01:18]  See, I agree with you.
[01:01:19]  The only time this ever happened, the Sam Shepard case, remember Murph the Serf, these great Supreme Court cases where in the old days.
[01:01:25]  You had a newspaper and it was kind of local before the internet, all this kind of jazz.
[01:01:31]  And the idea that knowing about this doesn't mean you're not going to be able to do it.
[01:01:37]  But if you ever found somebody, can you imagine, Baron, have you ever heard this case?
[01:01:41]  Who?
[01:01:42]  No one ever did.
[01:01:43]  It's like, get out of here.
[01:01:45]  It's not that we want somebody who is not able to think.
[01:01:51]  But also, there is nothing, and you've done this before, jury consultants love to tell you the ideal jury.
[01:01:57]  They will say, for example, like, you always want teachers because teachers believe in right and wrong in the rules.
[01:02:03]  You want somebody who's ex military or the cops, and it's nonsense.
[01:02:07]  Don't get minorities.
[01:02:08]  Do get minorities.
[01:02:09]  None of that pans out.
[01:02:11]  If your case stinks and they're listening to it and they're wondering, this is, I don't care who they are.
[01:02:17]  There is no bias that overwhelms common sense for the majority of people because when you're in that box, you've seen it.
[01:02:24]  They take on this attitude of common sense and no BS, and you brought me in for this.
[01:02:30]  You know, that sort of thing.
[01:02:32]  I've made it all because the jury selection, wait till we go through that.
[01:02:36]  Oh, speaking of jury selection, let me ask you because I don't want to poison the well here.
[01:02:40]  What do you want on the jury in terms of composition, male, female?
[01:02:44]  Say there's 12.
[01:02:45]  What do you want?
[01:02:46]  Let's not think alternates.
[01:02:48]  How many men, how many women?
[01:02:49]  I've thought this through.
[01:02:51]  I want women.
[01:02:52]  I want 12 women.
[01:02:54]  Prosecution or defense?
[01:02:55]  Defense.
[01:02:56]  I want 12 women.
[01:02:59]  They hate her.
[01:03:01]  Women hate her.
[01:03:03]  They hate her.
[01:03:04]  You're a sexist.
[01:03:05]  You're a sexist man.
[01:03:07]  No, I'm not.
[01:03:08]  You're a sexist man.
[01:03:09]  I'm reality.
[01:03:10]  I want 12 women and I want eight of them to have lost a husband before the husband turned 45.
[01:03:15]  Oh, come on.
[01:03:16]  You're not going to get it.
[01:03:18]  I'm just telling you my ideal dream jury.
[01:03:21]  Let me tell you.
[01:03:22]  I want women no matter what.
[01:03:27]  I say they are.
[01:03:28]  And we have seen this.
[01:03:30]  The best, the absolute best commentary, the best whatever is the ability, and I've been through this a million times.
[01:03:36]  I think they're more discerning.
[01:03:38]  I think they're more probative.
[01:03:39]  I think they're more instinctual.
[01:03:41]  I think there was a difference between men and women, believe it or not, pronouns notwithstanding.
[01:03:46]  But I think if she takes a stand, that's it.
[01:03:50]  Quick story.
[01:03:50]  During the OJ case, they went to Marsha Clark and they said, Listen, these African American women, they hate you.
[01:03:58]  They, I mean, you just, and you just, What do you mean?
[01:04:01]  He goes, No, you, you, we got to get somebody else.
[01:04:04]  He goes, Oh, no, you don't.
[01:04:06]  And look what happened.
[01:04:08]  There are people who just, and when you've seen the opposite, when they like you, I remember every day you've been in court and they're watching everything.
[01:04:21]  They watch the way you talk to your co counsel, they watch the way you talk to the bailiff, they watch the way you talk to each other.
[01:04:28]  You're going to have to also get him to sit there and say, Never laugh, look scared.
[01:04:33]  Don't look at the jury, but don't look away from them.
[01:04:35]  Don't look weird, but don't have because you've seen this sometimes they kind of you know loosen up.
[01:04:41]  That is critical, but I want women absolutely now.
[01:04:45]  Would you ask anything about what their viewing habits were or would anybody else?
[01:04:50]  Because the defense is going to say, Do any of you watch the following shows?
[01:04:55]  Baron Coleman, you think they're going to do that?
[01:04:59]  You know, they're going to do that.
[01:05:01]  Well, the state might ask that.
[01:05:02]  I don't think the defense, that's what I mean.
[01:05:04]  Yeah, um, oh, not the defense, but the state.
[01:05:06]  Oh, yeah.

=== Defense Table Dynamics (09:22) ===

[01:05:07]  Yeah, the state will surely ask that question.
[01:05:11]  I would want to know do they watch Fox News?
[01:05:14]  Do they watch, you know, do they get on Twitter?
[01:05:16]  Oh, really?
[01:05:17]  Do you follow political people on Twitter?
[01:05:19]  Who do you follow?
[01:05:20]  You know, do you follow Jack Basobic?
[01:05:22]  Do you follow Andrew Colvitt?
[01:05:23]  Do you follow TPUSA?
[01:05:25]  I would have a long list of people that could probably be done by questionnaire, but I wouldn't rely exclusively on questionnaire.
[01:05:31]  I would hit it again anyway.
[01:05:33]  Now, it depends upon are you familiar with how liberal, because most of the states, when Von Deere.
[01:05:40]  Jury selection was liberal, it was great.
[01:05:41]  You could ask questions, yeah.
[01:05:43]  You would ask because I had so much fun if I met somebody, remember, because they're scared.
[01:05:49]  And if I said to you, Mr., uh, Mr. Coleman, one time I said, What do your friends call you?
[01:05:54]  and I got an objection, and the judge said, What's the matter?
[01:05:57]  He said, He's asking him what his friends call him.
[01:05:59]  He said, Well, what do your friends call you?
[01:06:00]  He goes, No objection.
[01:06:02]  So I was trying to be the nice guy, and they immediately hated my co counsel.
[01:06:06]  And I and I would ask one, I said, Every time, in fact, getting I said, When you got that jury selection in the mail, be honest, did you say to yourself, What is this thing?
[01:06:14]  What is this, a tax office?
[01:06:15]  Oh my God!
[01:06:17]  Did you drop it and say, How do I get out?
[01:06:19]  And they're going to laugh.
[01:06:20]  And it's going to release this tension because they're scared.
[01:06:23]  And not only that, they're in for the case of the decade or whatever.
[01:06:30]  And you're going to be here for a long time.
[01:06:31]  And there may be sequestration.
[01:06:33]  I don't know.
[01:06:34]  I mean, you're in for a ride.
[01:06:36]  I don't think they'll sequester them.
[01:06:39]  I'll tell you a quick story.
[01:06:41]  This is a great story.
[01:06:42]  I was a young puppy lawyer, first or second year lawyer.
[01:06:45]  I'm trying a case with the most senior partner in the law firm.
[01:06:49]  He's like, come on, we're going to try this case together.
[01:06:51]  I'm like, all right.
[01:06:51]  I was like, what do I do?
[01:06:52]  He's like, just sit there and watch.
[01:06:54]  Just sit at the table.
[01:06:54]  You don't have any responsibility.
[01:06:56]  Take notes, pour water, whatever, but just watch.
[01:06:58]  I just want you to be in the courtroom watching.
[01:07:00]  And so we're watching a jury trial.
[01:07:02]  This is a small country courtroom in Alabama.
[01:07:04]  And the issue is whether or not our chemical company that I represented, Sold this guy bad chemicals and it killed off all his cotton crop and cost him millions of dollars?
[01:07:15]  Or is he just a bad farmer and killed off his cotton crop and it cost him millions of dollars?
[01:07:19]  He was blaming the chemicals.
[01:07:20]  We're blaming him.
[01:07:21]  And so his lawyer gets up there.
[01:07:24]  His lawyer gets up there and starts the board deer process.
[01:07:27]  And he starts and he goes, Let me take you back in time.
[01:07:30]  He said, You remember when all the last hundred years or so, these big city chemical people and these big city cotton people would come in town and And they're over there and they got their, they're leaning on the scale while the cotton's being loaded up or they're, they're pulling on it.
[01:07:47]  He goes, depending on which way favored them.
[01:07:49]  And there's nothing you guys could do about it.
[01:07:51]  They were just here to rip you off.
[01:07:52]  You were just hoping they ripped you off so little that you, this is, this is one deer.
[01:07:56]  Oh my God.
[01:07:57]  Yeah.
[01:07:57]  And then the lawyer I was with, I said, are you going to object?
[01:08:01]  He goes, no, we're going to lose.
[01:08:04]  He goes, I'm not drawing any attention to this.
[01:08:05]  He goes, they're half asleep over there.
[01:08:07]  They're paying no attention to this guy.
[01:08:09]  And so there's, there's an art to it.
[01:08:11]  You know, there's an art to making friends, to being likable.
[01:08:15]  But without being obnoxious, that goes for the victim representative, the victim representative's family.
[01:08:22]  Um, and I just have a feeling if you can pack that jury with women, they are going to hate her, and they are not, I mean, they're not gonna appreciate it, they're not gonna appreciate her at all.
[01:08:34]  Where would they hate her?
[01:08:36]  It if, but if she's not called, which I think she would absolutely be living.
[01:08:44]  You're talking about Eric, if she was not for some reason, if she was not, if there was no reason to call her.
[01:08:49]  Yeah.
[01:08:50]  I mean, during, because she, she, there's nothing that, that can be, that can be provided without her identification of the, of the, she doesn't really, she doesn't really, you know, doesn't, she wasn't even there.
[01:09:01]  I mean, so it's possible.
[01:09:04]  If you walk into most murder trials and the husband's dead and the wife is present and you just walk in, you probably can't pick the wife out.
[01:09:13]  You know, you might look and say, okay, there's the defense table.
[01:09:15]  She's probably one of those sitting within a row or two of the defense table.
[01:09:19]  But most of the time, you can't pick it out.
[01:09:22]  You're going to walk in and see her with four foot long, shocking white hair, gold jewelry on every finger, big gold, chunky bracelets, diamond and gold, everything.
[01:09:36]  It just, she doesn't blend in well.
[01:09:40]  And she cannot, I do not think this trial could go on months.
[01:09:43]  There's no way she can control herself for months.
[01:09:46]  No way.
[01:09:47]  And I'm telling you right now, when the state says, hey, this thing's going to go on for months and we need you sitting there every day, she's going to be pissed.
[01:09:54]  Let me ask you a question.
[01:09:55]  Crazy as it sounds, what if Candace were to show up a couple days, sit in the front row?
[01:10:02]  Remember Joe Lewis?
[01:10:03]  Joe Lewis used to do that.
[01:10:04]  Remember you used to go to get Joe Lewis?
[01:10:05]  Huh?
[01:10:06]  I don't recommend that.
[01:10:07]  I hope she doesn't do that.
[01:10:11]  I tend to agree, but I'm just curious.
[01:10:13]  Yeah, I think it has the potential to deprive Tyler Robinson of a fair jury trial.
[01:10:24]  Like her or love her, and I like her quite a lot.
[01:10:29]  She is a figure that nobody's neutral on.
[01:10:31]  Very few people have no opinion on her.
[01:10:33]  And maybe you have a juror who's 50 50, could be a holdout.
[01:10:39]  Maybe you have a juror that could be a holdout the other way, but might go along to get along.
[01:10:43]  But Candace walks in and sits down, and that juror says, Nope, I'm going to hold out.
[01:10:47]  I'm not going to vote to acquit.
[01:10:50]  I am so angry that that woman is sitting there.
[01:10:53]  She is demonic.
[01:10:54]  She's this and that.
[01:10:55]  I just think.
[01:10:57]  I think it would do more of the potential to do more harm than good.
[01:11:01]  So I, and I don't think she would do that.
[01:11:03]  I mean, what do you think about, what do you think about, well, I tend to agree.
[01:11:06]  I tend to agree because the thing is, is that, and I'm going to say something which, which may sound wrong, but if I defended Toddler, I'd say, I don't want you to get a fair trial.
[01:11:17]  I want you to win.
[01:11:18]  Yeah.
[01:11:18]  I don't want you to, this fair trial is, I don't know what fair means as long as I don't want you to be railroaded, but some people think that anything short of conviction is not fair.
[01:11:28]  Now, what happens with concomitant.
[01:11:31]  Media?
[01:11:33]  What are the rules regarding gag orders?
[01:11:36]  And will lawyers, because you and I know, especially in, there's a lot of local rules, especially in federal court, you can't say anything.
[01:11:43]  I mean, you can be just barred.
[01:11:45]  You can't say anything.
[01:11:46]  So, how do you handle that?
[01:11:48]  And what happens when they walk out, walk in, and there's cameras outside, and the jury in this small town is going to see this?
[01:11:56]  And how does that play?
[01:11:59]  I don't know.
[01:12:00]  I mean, the jury's going to know it's a big deal when they get the summons, especially in this new age.
[01:12:05]  And this is why I think, frankly, the people who are pushing this Fed slop narrative are trying so hard to.
[01:12:12]  This is the first major trial tried in the era of AI.
[01:12:16]  And I think it's very important.
[01:12:18]  Most people don't understand how important this aspect is to this trial.
[01:12:22]  This is the first AI generation trial.
[01:12:26]  And what most people don't know, and this is why I strongly encourage people, you can use AI to get started, but Do not draw your conclusions based on an AI question on a particular topic because AI goes out and they search Twitter and they search Reddit and they search all these message forums because they're trying to build a communal language.
[01:12:46]  They want to speak in the vernacular, they want to know how human beings speak so that they can sound human as they talk back and forth with you.
[01:12:51]  Correct.
[01:12:52]  So, as they're doing this, they're drawing all these facts that may not be facts at all.
[01:12:57]  And so, if 90% of X says Tyler Robinson shot, Right.
[01:13:02]  Charlie Kirk.
[01:13:03]  If you go to Grok and you ask, how did Charlie Kirk die?
[01:13:06]  They're going to say Tyler Robinson shot him in the neck with a 30 out six.
[01:13:10]  Like that's, it's just, that's what it's going to say.
[01:13:12]  And so you have a huge incentive to flood the space, paid people, whatever, with the answer you want in a trial.
[01:13:22]  And it'll be very interesting going forward to see how judges account for this, how jurors adapt to this reality.
[01:13:28]  Because you know as well as I do, the very second you get a summons and you show up to the courtroom and they say, okay, you're on panel six.
[01:13:34]  and you go, okay, and you sit there and you wait, and then they call panel six and you walk in and, and boom, all of a sudden you're face to face with this.
[01:13:41]  You go, oh, this is the trial.
[01:13:42]  You take your first break, you grab your phone and you start doing this.
[01:13:46]  What is going on here?
[01:13:47]  Who is Erica Kirk?
[01:13:48]  Who's Tyler Robinson?
[01:13:50]  And you now are an expert in the case, but if you're relying on Grok, if you're relying on Gemini or Claude, it's going to tell you Tyler Robinson killed him before you've heard the first opening statement.
[01:14:00]  Which also, this is a different one, Baron.
[01:14:04]  What about people who have, I mean, Fox has pretty much taken the device because they're, I don't want to say they're sock puppets or they're proxies for TPUSA or whatever it is.
[01:14:20]  Though the other day when Erica says, I can't show up because it's his threats, and JD Baron says, what threats?

=== Presumption of Guilt (03:44) ===

[01:14:30]  What are you talking about?
[01:14:31]  Come on out here.
[01:14:31]  No, no, that's not good.
[01:14:33]  There's four people here.
[01:14:34]  Four people waiting for a box lunch and a pizza.
[01:14:38]  So you've got this narrative, but they love her.
[01:14:43]  They are told almost this is the song.
[01:14:46]  We love her.
[01:14:47]  She is the victim.
[01:14:48]  We love TPUSA.
[01:14:50]  This is where we are.
[01:14:51]  Now, I don't know about the left.
[01:14:53]  They're kind of like, I don't watch it enough, but I don't know like MSDNC or one of those folks.
[01:14:57]  I don't know what they're saying about it.
[01:14:59]  I don't know if left and right are split.
[01:15:01]  I don't know if she has a constituency or a narrative.
[01:15:05]  Does he.
[01:15:07]  I don't know how that works, but I do know that they are told you are to presume whenever somebody is charged, that's the person.
[01:15:16]  There's like a presumption.
[01:15:17]  There's a presumption, not of innocence, but a presumption of guilt.
[01:15:20]  People think there must be something.
[01:15:22]  They would have just arrested the guy if there was nothing.
[01:15:25]  That's going to be kind of tough to dispel.
[01:15:28]  That's what scares me as far as how people view this thing.
[01:15:32]  Now, I want to talk about the million dollar question.
[01:15:34]  You're going to be very, very careful how we say this.
[01:15:36]  You do know if for one particular person, If one particular day you found out breaking news that our friend Tyler were no more, well, there you go.
[01:15:49]  That takes care of that.
[01:15:51]  Now, business as usual.
[01:15:53]  How do we ensure that every attempt, every movement is done to protect him, to maintain him, especially in view of what he represents, especially in this case?
[01:16:06]  How?
[01:16:08]  Because I almost want to say, don't buy the green bananas.
[01:16:11]  You know what I mean?
[01:16:12]  And by the way, Well, you and I can't do much.
[01:16:17]  The Utah County Sheriff is the jailer there.
[01:16:20]  It's up to him to provide a safe environment for his detainees.
[01:16:24]  I'm hoping he takes that very seriously and does it.
[01:16:28]  But there's not much we can do.
[01:16:30]  The only thing we can do is to continue to shine light on this.
[01:16:33]  I think if no one was looking at this case, he would have already disappeared.
[01:16:38]  The fact that everybody's got their eyes on it, there's a lot of pressure on the sheriff to make sure he stays okay and that he stays in a good disposition.
[01:16:47]  You know, that he's not attempting to harm himself.
[01:16:50]  He's not being harmed.
[01:16:51]  He's not being disposed of.
[01:16:55]  I worry less about something tragic happening to him than him taking a deal.
[01:17:00]  That was my next.
[01:17:01]  I can't believe you said that.
[01:17:03]  That's my next thing.
[01:17:04]  What if, and I don't know anything about his lawyers.
[01:17:06]  I don't know how, I'm presuming they're great and everything.
[01:17:09]  But what if they say, listen, let's just cut to the chase, cut your losses, plead to 25, you're a young kid, 25 years, some minimum.
[01:17:19]  You know what?
[01:17:20]  Not even a mandatory, maybe with parole.
[01:17:22]  Let's just end this.
[01:17:24]  You go away.
[01:17:25]  You'll be fine.
[01:17:26]  Save your parents.
[01:17:28]  That's what I worry about.
[01:17:29]  What do you think?
[01:17:31]  I thought about it a lot.
[01:17:32]  The question is, what was his level of involvement that he would be willing to confess to?
[01:17:37]  Or if his true involvement were known, his limited true involvement, say his involvement was to bring the gun and drop it off at a drop point or to be the getaway driver or something like that.
[01:17:49]  If we knew his involvement and we could gauge, okay, what would a getaway driver who brought the gun to a murder, what would he get?
[01:17:56]  Oh, he would get 25 to life, right?
[01:17:59]  So would he be willing to plead to 25 to life?
[01:18:03]  And if we knew the answer to that question, it might be strategically in the best interest.
[01:18:11]  In Tyler Robinson's best interest to plead to that.

=== Political Insider Secrets (06:51) ===

[01:18:14]  I mean, you know, we all want to know the answer.
[01:18:17]  We all want to have a trial because we have this morbid curiosity with solving the case.
[01:18:22]  And I have that morbid curiosity because if someone assassinated a high profile political figure in broad daylight, I want them held accountable.
[01:18:31]  We can't have that.
[01:18:32]  I don't think it's a morbid curiosity at all.
[01:18:33]  I think it's justice, and I think it looks this way.
[01:18:36]  If Charlie Kirk, if it were Billy Graham, if it were anybody else, if it was Fulton Sheen, if it was whatever, people would have expected the same thing.
[01:18:43]  I don't think people recognize how important, how critical Charlie Kirk was.
[01:18:47]  I know you do.
[01:18:48]  But this was one of the most singular, most important figures in contemporary politics.
[01:18:57]  By the way, remember that if you read the mission statement of TPUSA, it was basically to extol the virtues of limited government and kind of a Mises, kind of a libertarian.
[01:19:07]  It wasn't really about Jesus or Christianity.
[01:19:10]  He actually went out to people and he told people specifically I'm telling you, women should work at home.
[01:19:17]  Ha!
[01:19:17]  Should stay at home.
[01:19:18]  But I think women should stay at home.
[01:19:20]  He was very, very conservative with that respect.
[01:19:22]  And I don't know about you, but Baron, the thing that freaked me out, but I was surprised about the number of my friends who listened to him every day, and the number of young people who were devastated by this, who were closet Charlie fans and people who said, I like his rigor.
[01:19:40]  I like his stricture.
[01:19:41]  I like what he's saying.
[01:19:43]  I want to go to church.
[01:19:44]  I want to do this.
[01:19:46]  He didn't hold back.
[01:19:47]  He said, Look, I'm not for transgender.
[01:19:51]  No hard feelings.
[01:19:52]  I'm not going to hurt you.
[01:19:53]  But he was so adamant about this, and people found it so refreshing.
[01:19:57]  And then he may have strayed into other areas, which, by the way, I don't even bother because you and I could talk all day long about who was responsible, what was the motivation, what ox was gored, and that sort of thing.
[01:20:10]  But he was critical to more people than we will ever understand.
[01:20:15]  And I couldn't believe that day I was at a party, my wife and I, and people were just, I said, you?
[01:20:23]  You listen to them every day.
[01:20:25]  It was like they were almost closeted.
[01:20:27]  Did you find the same result?
[01:20:28]  I did.
[01:20:29]  I did.
[01:20:29]  You know, I have teenage kids and I was shocked at how it affected them.
[01:20:35]  I was shocked at how they described it affecting their friends.
[01:20:38]  I mean, my kids are not particularly overtly political people.
[01:20:42]  I remember I was listening to a Michael Knowles podcast one day, driving my, I think she was 15 at the time, 15 year old daughter to school.
[01:20:49]  And she said, Oh, you listening to Michael Knowles?
[01:20:52]  And I thought, How do you know who Michael Knowles is?
[01:20:54]  She goes, Oh, I love listening to Michael Knowles.
[01:20:55]  I listen to him all the time.
[01:20:56]  I thought, What?
[01:20:57]  Do you?
[01:20:58]  What is going on upstairs?
[01:21:00]  I have no idea who my kids are.
[01:21:01]  I don't know you people.
[01:21:02]  Why do you live in my house?
[01:21:03]  No, but I still, like, I was in such shock for those first few days.
[01:21:11]  I don't believe I'd ever even been in the same room as Charlie.
[01:21:13]  I don't think I ever met him.
[01:21:15]  But he was such a ubiquitous presence in the right for the last four or five, six years.
[01:21:20]  Love him or hate him, he was always around.
[01:21:22]  He was always involved in every issue.
[01:21:25]  He was a constant presence.
[01:21:27]  And so you felt like you knew him, even if you didn't.
[01:21:29]  And I was so shocked.
[01:21:31]  When it happened, and it was such a tragic end.
[01:21:34]  I mean, it really looked bad on camera.
[01:21:37]  So, I remember the first time I saw it, I was talking to a friend of mine, and he called me to tell me, and I was like, What really?
[01:21:42]  So, I'm like clicking through and I'm looking for news on it, and I saw the video and I gasped.
[01:21:48]  I said, Oh my gosh.
[01:21:50]  And he was like, What?
[01:21:51]  I was like, Do not watch the video.
[01:21:52]  He still to this day has not watched the video.
[01:21:54]  This is a consummate political insider, has not watched the video to this day.
[01:21:58]  Um, And, but I still carry that same sense of shock.
[01:22:03]  I am absolutely horrified that that, that that young man at the prime of his life with two very small children and a wife was taken down in that manner.
[01:22:17]  And if it turns out like, and I mean this, I say this seriously.
[01:22:21]  If it turns out that there's evidence that Tyler Robinson pulled the trigger.
[01:22:25]  Oh, I, I will be the biggest advocate for convicting him in the world.
[01:22:32]  Absolutely.
[01:22:34]  Now, there's also something which is also fascinating this concomitant rise.
[01:22:41]  The biggest, the most powerful person on the internet today, maybe not popular is weird, you know, but Joe Rogan is more people.
[01:22:49]  It's hard to say.
[01:22:50]  Listen, there are some Indian shows that are just 25 million people.
[01:22:57]  But the most powerful is Candace.
[01:23:00]  She has, if ever there was the continuation of Charlie, it is she.
[01:23:06]  She's indefatigable, unapologetic regarding her own, I don't want to say conservative, because I think that the word is done, but she is unabashed, Catholic, believes in this, family.
[01:23:16]  What's right and wrong?
[01:23:17]  She's absolutely fearless.
[01:23:20]  I'm going to tell you this quick story.
[01:23:22]  In the first Jack Reacher with Tom Cruise, there was one scene which I loved when Tom was about to take this poor guy and basically smash his gonads and render him paralyzed and a eunuch.
[01:23:32]  And before this fight, Tom Cruise leans over and says, Remember, you wanted this.
[01:23:38]  And of course, he paralyzes the guy.
[01:23:40]  That's the thing with Candace.
[01:23:42]  If you leave her alone, she doesn't go pick fights.
[01:23:45]  But if you go after her, If you start giving her cease and desist, if you're suing her, it's like, okay, you wanted this.
[01:23:50]  She doesn't back down.
[01:23:52]  You must have marveled as much as I have.
[01:23:55]  Her ability to recite the fact she's like Torquemada.
[01:23:57]  This is like the Inquisition.
[01:23:59]  She goes through this absolutely flawless, effortless, seemingly some of the most complicated fact patterns every day, never angry, always lighthearted, fun, but sincere.
[01:24:16]  I think if she were to say Storm the Bastille, If she were to say, I need you to go down to this particular district in Louisiana because there's a congressman, I think she could affect politics.
[01:24:27]  I think she could sway mobs like the perfect starling, the murmurations that you see, crowds and a clock, whatever.
[01:24:34]  She is it.
[01:24:35]  She, out of this, she had it before, but she is the most powerful person in politics in this platform.
[01:24:44]  Tucker, second, close, whatever it is.
[01:24:47]  But this redefined not only just this, but politics.
[01:24:52]  It's that because of this case, it brought people in who may who said, you know, Baron, I didn't really care about it, I never really voted, but but this got me, and I like her, and I like you, and I like these people.

=== The Powerful Sphere Shift (07:32) ===

[01:25:05]  And what do you call yourself?
[01:25:07]  This is my question What do you call yourself?
[01:25:10]  What is this conservative?
[01:25:11]  Is this what is this?
[01:25:12]  So, I've been referring to our little group, I've been including you without your knowledge, um, Coach Colin, Candace, um, Jesse, you, me.
[01:25:23]  Ian Carroll, kind of like insurgents, you know, it's not focused on left and right as much as it is what's in the best interest of America, what's in the best interest of Americans.
[01:25:36]  And by that, I mean everybody.
[01:25:38]  So, you know, you can't say screw the 1%, burn the palaces, you know, steal all their money and give it away.
[01:25:45]  You know, a lot of those people in the 1% employ a lot of people.
[01:25:48]  So you got to balance this interest, but you do have to primarily take care of home.
[01:25:54]  And I think the real division, I don't know if you saw Tucker's monologue on the new religion of America, but what he said is we're doing away with.
[01:26:06]  with Christianity, home cooked apple pie, America, baseball.
[01:26:12]  That's an era that we've passed now.
[01:26:14]  Now we're ending it into this new thing where there's this litmus test.
[01:26:17]  There's a single country overseas.
[01:26:19]  And if you don't pray just complete allegiance to them, you're outside the sphere of influence.
[01:26:23]  We're not going to allow you to participate inside this sphere of influence.
[01:26:26]  Then we'll divide it down the middle, left and right.
[01:26:29]  And there's this group of people on the outside through the Charlie Kirk case.
[01:26:33]  I think they've all kind of come together, but they look and say, I don't like that dynamic.
[01:26:36]  You know, I don't, I honestly don't know if you're left or right.
[01:26:39]  I have no idea what your politics are.
[01:26:40]  I, I, I can hear on some issues, I say, I think on that issue, he probably leans this way.
[01:26:45]  But globally, I don't know if you vote for Democrats or Republicans.
[01:26:48]  I don't care.
[01:26:49]  What it sounds like to me when you talk is you're deeply moved by justice.
[01:26:53]  You're deeply moved by truth.
[01:26:54]  You're deeply moved by connecting with all people, you know, connecting with the building the community online, which you've done.
[01:27:01]  You've got this devoted group of people online that when you come on, they listen to what you have to say.
[01:27:05]  You see, you shepherd them.
[01:27:07]  You care for them.
[01:27:07]  You, you talk to them.
[01:27:09]  You interact with them.
[01:27:11]  And this is not something that's being done outside our little group.
[01:27:15]  And the defining focus is yeah, we want justice.
[01:27:19]  Why?
[01:27:19]  Because we want to do the right thing by God and man.
[01:27:22]  But it's also uniquely American.
[01:27:23]  We have a justice system that people should weigh in on.
[01:27:27]  Yes, I want to be able to buy oil and fill up my car with gasoline, but I want to do it in a way that is not harming people somewhere else and is not exfiltrating wealth out of America into other countries.
[01:27:40]  It's not diluting the middle class, harming the lower class.
[01:27:44]  And so I look at this more like an insurgent operation.
[01:27:47]  It's what we struggled with so much when we entered Afghanistan and we could bomb it, but we couldn't control it.
[01:27:55]  And that's the way I feel right now, our little group is.
[01:27:57]  They can bomb us, but they can't control us.
[01:28:00]  It's funny, you know, we're indefatigable.
[01:28:03]  You just said it.
[01:28:04]  We refuse.
[01:28:05]  And I refuse to bend.
[01:28:06]  Let me borrow a word from your lexicon.
[01:28:08]  I refuse to bend to this mendacious attack from them, which is just, it's a basket of lies.
[01:28:18]  Oh, they're far right.
[01:28:19]  They're this.
[01:28:19]  They're conspiracy theorists.
[01:28:21]  No, I just generally want to know what happened.
[01:28:24]  I just generally want to know what happened.
[01:28:26]  Bless you.
[01:28:26]  You know, you're, you're, you're, I'm going to cry.
[01:28:31]  These people are here.
[01:28:31]  Here's one for you.
[01:28:33]  The, these people today are performative, epitomestic.
[01:28:37]  They're into censure.
[01:28:38]  They're into pointing.
[01:28:39]  My generation was Vietnam War.
[01:28:41]  I thought, I remember when I was a kid, I was in graceful.
[01:28:43]  I got the bracelet for the POWs.
[01:28:45]  We lived and breathed this stuff.
[01:28:47]  I said, why is this?
[01:28:48]  What's going on with this?
[01:28:50]  It affected me.
[01:28:51]  The music, everything.
[01:28:52]  I thought, well, we're not going to do that again.
[01:28:54]  And people stood up.
[01:28:55]  And at first, they were called America, love it or leave it.
[01:28:57]  I mean, it was a perfect, it was a litmus.
[01:28:59]  It was Perfect.
[01:29:00]  Love it or leave it.
[01:29:01]  You're un American.
[01:29:02]  Wait a minute.
[01:29:02]  No, we're not.
[01:29:03]  Well, that worked out.
[01:29:04]  Then we won.
[01:29:06]  The left right thing, I don't know.
[01:29:07]  Going into talk radio, Rush Limbaugh came along and then liberals versus conservatives.
[01:29:11]  I never understood what that meant.
[01:29:13]  I don't know what that is.
[01:29:14]  It comes down to simply this Balzac says, I'm with the opposition.
[01:29:18]  I'm a contrarian.
[01:29:20]  I have a hard time.
[01:29:21]  Whenever everybody agrees with me, I must be doing something wrong.
[01:29:24]  I tend to be outside.
[01:29:26]  And there's something that comes that is so granular, so true.
[01:29:29]  It's right or wrong, and it's true.
[01:29:31]  And we can argue about what that is.
[01:29:33]  Left and right.
[01:29:34]  But also, there's something too.
[01:29:35]  It's called tolerance.
[01:29:36]  I may not agree with your choice of music, your fashion, your religion, whether you have it or not, doesn't matter.
[01:29:45]  This is not a referendum about you.
[01:29:47]  The issue we talk about, irrespective, I've got friends of mine who we probably disagree with each other vehemently.
[01:29:54]  And I remember what Gore Binow said.
[01:29:56]  I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
[01:29:58]  I'm a conspiracy analyst.
[01:30:00]  Because that started after that great CIA document.
[01:30:03]  And I was the one, by the way, I cut my teeth on 9 11.
[01:30:06]  And I mean, they thought I was out of my mind.
[01:30:09]  And I'm here in New York and I saw it.
[01:30:11]  People, don't forget.
[01:30:12]  Don't forget the Alex's.
[01:30:14]  Alex Jones, whatever you say about this guy, this guy was an OG.
[01:30:17]  He was there when it wasn't cool.
[01:30:19]  He was the only person.
[01:30:21]  And what he's been through, it's not always right.
[01:30:23]  I don't even have to say that.
[01:30:24]  So I agree with you 100%.
[01:30:26]  And all I know is there's this interesting tent.
[01:30:31]  And these people that I find here, I say, I like you.
[01:30:35]  I like you a lot.
[01:30:37]  I don't know what you believe because it's never come up.
[01:30:40]  We're not going anywhere.
[01:30:42]  We're this group of these murmurations.
[01:30:44]  We're this flock.
[01:30:46]  We're not going anywhere.
[01:30:47]  And it's not going to be like, okay, well, the case is over.
[01:30:50]  Nice knowing you, Baron.
[01:30:52]  See you.
[01:30:52]  It's not going to be like that.
[01:30:54]  We, something happened here.
[01:30:57]  I don't want to make too much of it.
[01:30:58]  This is a revolution.
[01:30:59]  No, it is a revolution.
[01:31:02]  You know, when I was little, I used to have a globe in my room.
[01:31:05]  This was before the Berlin Wall fell.
[01:31:08]  This was Rocky IV, you know, Ivan Drago.
[01:31:11]  But I had a globe in my room and I had it tilted up so that the Soviet Union was up and an American flag draped over it.
[01:31:18]  Like that's the America I came up in.
[01:31:21]  And, you know, I remember asking my parents, like, why don't people like the Soviet Union?
[01:31:26]  What's wrong with it?
[01:31:27]  And they said, you can't say whatever you want there.
[01:31:30]  You know, in America, you can say anything you want.
[01:31:33]  And nobody can't tell you what you can't say.
[01:31:36]  You can say anything you want.
[01:31:38]  They always use the can't scream fire in a crowded theater because you can't put people in harm's way.
[01:31:42]  But you can say anything you want politically.
[01:31:44]  You could weigh in on this.
[01:31:46]  You can weigh in on that.
[01:31:46]  And that's what makes America great, right?
[01:31:48]  You could join the John Birch Society or you could join the Communist Party USA.
[01:31:51]  The government can't tell you what you can do.
[01:31:55]  I feel like that America is gone.
[01:31:57]  And that's what I'm an insurgent for.
[01:31:58]  I want that America back.
[01:32:00]  YouTube is the marketplace of ideas now.
[01:32:03]  YouTube, Rumble, Spotify.
[01:32:06]  If that falls, there is no marketplace of ideas.
[01:32:10]  You know, if they start, I was on air, I was on the, on talk radio the day they kicked Alex Jones off of Twitter.
[01:32:16]  This would have been 2017 or 18, whenever that was.
[01:32:19]  And I remember saying, this is a bad sign.
[01:32:21]  They're going to kick us all off before 2020.
[01:32:24]  And everyone was like, you're out of your mind.
[01:32:26]  He's a loon bad.
[01:32:27]  He says crazy stuff.
[01:32:28]  I said, well, but he has a right to say crazy stuff.
[01:32:31]  And he doesn't say, he's not saying things that are harming people.
[01:32:34]  He's not putting someone in harm's way.
[01:32:36]  He's not threatening people.
[01:32:37]  He's just saying unpopular things.

=== Standing Together as Brothers (05:24) ===

[01:32:38]  And they've removed him for that.
[01:32:39]  So once they've done it once, nobody's safe.
[01:32:42]  Especially somebody of his profile.
[01:32:44]  Nobody's safe.
[01:32:45]  And slowly, one by one, I mean, I lost my Twitter account back in January of 21.
[01:32:52]  Slowly, one by one, they just removed everybody.
[01:32:54]  You know how many tweets I had public?
[01:32:56]  At zero.
[01:32:57]  They took my Twitter feed off simply because of who I was associated with.
[01:33:01]  Because my name was showing up in the New York Times and the Washington Post and the New York Post.
[01:33:05]  Because my name showed up alongside other people's names, they removed my Twitter account.
[01:33:10]  All I did was use it to scroll and curate a feed.
[01:33:13]  I didn't even use it.
[01:33:14]  They don't even care.
[01:33:16]  You know what?
[01:33:16]  It's also, Baron, it's not the thought police that bothers me.
[01:33:20]  It's the thought vigilantes.
[01:33:21]  It's the citizens who decide on their own.
[01:33:24]  And what's interesting is that the government then used it.
[01:33:27]  We were so played.
[01:33:28]  Create this platform everybody will use to explicate and explain themselves.
[01:33:32]  Then we will have everybody come to it, make it for free, and then later on, and then to shut them down, we send a message to them to cut the connection.
[01:33:44]  And they can claim, wait a minute, this isn't a First Amendment case because we're not the government.
[01:33:49]  But you're acting as a proxy.
[01:33:51]  You're acting, this is this.
[01:33:53]  Anyway, we saw this.
[01:33:56]  I have taken, we said an hour and a half.
[01:33:59]  This is absolutely positively.
[01:34:02]  I hadn't, you have no idea how much I've enjoyed this.
[01:34:05]  I want to thank everybody who has been so kind to contribute.
[01:34:10]  And I don't have enough time to go through all this, but you, sir, are incredible.
[01:34:17]  I know this sounds like I'm being corny.
[01:34:19]  You are an absolute treasure.
[01:34:22]  And how you and again, it's so funny.
[01:34:26]  We all kind of know each other.
[01:34:27]  I've never met you when I talked to you on the phone for the first time.
[01:34:30]  I said, I knew you.
[01:34:31]  Yeah.
[01:34:32]  Because remember, remember Hawaii 5 0?
[01:34:34]  Remember Cam Fong as Chin Ho?
[01:34:36]  He said, we're all in this together, brother.
[01:34:38]  And I'm thinking, we're all in this.
[01:34:41]  We're a part of this group.
[01:34:42]  And all of a sudden, like I said, I think this is a kernel.
[01:34:46]  This is the grander state of some huge explosion.
[01:34:48]  And I want to thank you, sir.
[01:34:50]  Well, I want to thank you.
[01:34:51]  I'm glad you reached out because I think I'm pretty much in contact with almost everybody on our side.
[01:34:58]  I've now talked to you and exchanged texts and pleasantries with you.
[01:35:02]  Talk to Danks and talk to Jesse and Candace and Ian.
[01:35:07]  And I mean, it's just Colin, we text a lot.
[01:35:11]  It's a rare group of people that I think are sort of the last people carrying the torch.
[01:35:18]  And we're doing it through the Charlie Kirk case, obviously, and others, but we're carrying the torch of we deserve answers.
[01:35:25]  We are still Americans.
[01:35:26]  We still deserve to know what people are saying.
[01:35:30]  We still deserve to hear evidence.
[01:35:32]  We still deserve to have a say to be able to weigh in on stuff.
[01:35:35]  Right.
[01:35:36]  You can't just run over this country and sell it off piece by piece and dismantle it like some sort of PE firm that comes in and buys a company, dismantles it, and sells it off piece by piece.
[01:35:48]  That's what it feels like they're trying to do to America.
[01:35:50]  And I feel like there's a few of us saying, you can't do that.
[01:35:53]  Like we're going to be here.
[01:35:54]  Zach, that's another one.
[01:35:55]  I saw somebody say that in the chat.
[01:35:57]  But yeah, Zach is an integral part of that group.
[01:36:00]  I mean, it's a great group to be a part of.
[01:36:03]  It feels like a family in a lot of ways.
[01:36:05]  I hate to say that because Erica Kirk kind of ruined that expression.
[01:36:08]  But it does.
[01:36:09]  It feels like a community, a fraternity, maybe a close knit group.
[01:36:14]  I want to say one more thing about it.
[01:36:15]  I have been, listen, I've been doing, I was in talk radio since 88, and I met a lot of people.
[01:36:21]  I worked with Rush Limbaugh and all these big shots.
[01:36:24]  And he was a very nice guy, very shy.
[01:36:27]  He was far nicer than people would ever really think.
[01:36:29]  But I work with some real jerks.
[01:36:32]  A lot of people who thought they were big shots.
[01:36:34]  And I hate that.
[01:36:35]  I love to cut big shots down.
[01:36:37]  Nobody, but nobody.
[01:36:38]  I don't care who you are from Candace on down.
[01:36:41]  Nobody thinks they're a big shot.
[01:36:43]  No.
[01:36:43]  They help.
[01:36:44]  They extend.
[01:36:46]  It's like this because it's the cause.
[01:36:49]  It's the cause.
[01:36:51]  It's not.
[01:36:52]  How many numbers do you have?
[01:36:53]  And this is, I hate that.
[01:36:56]  This is about something bigger.
[01:36:58]  So I want to thank you, Ad Barrett.
[01:37:00]  Tell us, do you are what do you do three hours?
[01:37:04]  I keep asking them, how do you do this?
[01:37:07]  I try to keep it to three, but often it goes to three and a half or four, even.
[01:37:11]  Um, I don't know.
[01:37:12]  Do you have a catheter?
[01:37:13]  Do you have adult diapers?
[01:37:14]  How do you sit there for three hours?
[01:37:16]  I've got to pee so bad by the end of the show.
[01:37:18]  Um, you saw right before we start, you saw my routine about three minutes before go time.
[01:37:23]  I get up into the bathroom and come back.
[01:37:25]  Let me tell you something you're going to get to a certain age, but I'm telling you this, yeah, and you're going to say, you will walk by a bathroom and say, Excuse me, do you have to go?
[01:37:33]  No.
[01:37:33]  But you never know.
[01:37:34]  Just let me just.
[01:37:36]  It's like, you know, it's like insurance.
[01:37:38]  You know, I'm just going to make insurance.
[01:37:41]  I remember someone told me when you turn 40, you start waking up in the middle of the night to pee.
[01:37:44]  And I thought, why would I wake up in the middle of the night to pee?
[01:37:46]  That doesn't make any sense.
[01:37:47]  And then, like, the day after my 40th birthday, I woke up in the middle of the night and I was like, oh my gosh, it's true.
[01:37:52]  Well, the worst part is like the three old guys that say, you know, every day, I'm so lucky because at six o'clock, I have a big, you know what I'm talking about, a movement.

=== Waking Up at Nine (00:32) ===

[01:38:03]  And he said, What are you complaining about?
[01:38:04]  He says, I don't wake up until nine o'clock.
[01:38:07]  So that's the thing.
[01:38:08]  So it's one of those.
[01:38:09]  But anyway, but that's the beauty of this.
[01:38:11]  But again, Baron, at Baron Coleman on YouTube, you are.
[01:38:17]  Thank you, my friend.
[01:38:18]  Whatever I can do for you, let me know.
[01:38:20]  I'm here.
[01:38:21]  We're all in this together, brother, as a great Cam Hong is Chen host.
[01:38:25]  And I thank you, my friend.
[01:38:26]  I can't thank you enough for having me.
[01:38:28]  And thank your audience for being so kind and gracious with me.
[01:38:31]  Do it terribly.
[01:38:31]  Thank you, my friend.
[01:38:32]  All the best.
[01:38:32]  Baron Coleman, thank you so much, my friend.
[01:38:34]  Thank you.