Lionel Nation - Gene Hackman's Death and How His Movie Gave Me My Name
Aired: 2025-02-28
Duration: 10:16


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[00:01:31]  I'm not doing auto mourn.
[00:01:34]  I'm not pretending that Gene Hackman's loss or death means more to me than it does to you.
[00:01:40]  But I love this guy.
[00:01:43]  And I'll tell you why in particular.
[00:01:47]  It's one of those things where somebody dies that you know, somebody that you're familiar with, and you feel like you've lost almost a friend.
[00:01:59]  Well, Gene Hackman, you've heard the terms, he's a towering figure in American cinema, was one of the greatest and most natural actors, a la Spencer Tracy.

=== Lionel And The Godfather (08:11) ===

[00:02:11]  He died at the age of 95 alongside his wife, Betsy Arakawa, and their dog in their Santa Fe home.
[00:02:21]  Hackman's career spanned over six decades, during which he delivered a multitude of incredible performances that left an indelible mark on film history.
[00:02:33]  That is not an exaggeration.
[00:02:35]  One of the films is the 1973 film Scarecrow.
[00:02:40]  Where I got my name, Lionel.
[00:02:43]  I'll explain that in a moment.
[00:02:44]  But it was a project that, despite its initial commercial struggles, has, to this day, garnered incredible acclaim and a dedicated following.
[00:02:54]  Let me see if I can explain this, because I love this movie.
[00:02:57]  This was after The Godfather, okay?
[00:03:00]  So, this was directed by Jerry Schatzberg.
[00:03:05]  Scarecrow was with Gene Hackman and Al Pacino as two Drifters.
[00:03:11]  Max Millen.
[00:03:13]  It was all called Maxie.
[00:03:15]  I never really even heard his name.
[00:03:17]  And Al Pacino as Francis Lionel Del Bucchi.
[00:03:24]  And they formed this friendship while they were hitchhiking across America.
[00:03:30]  And Gene Hackman played Max, who is a gruff ex-convict with dreams of opening a car wash in Pittsburgh, and he runs into Lion, or Lionel, in this kind of a jovial, affable, innocent ex-sailor, trying to reconcile with his estranged family in Detroit, and their hitchhiking and their journey delves deep into themes of friendship and redemption.
[00:03:55]  I mean, it's really good.
[00:03:57]  The term, or the title, scarecrow, is somewhat emblematic of Lionel's philosophy that scarecrows don't frighten crows, but rather amuse them, suggesting that laughter and kindness can deter negativity.
[00:04:15]  Now, this is coming off of The Godfather.
[00:04:17]  I mean, this is one of Pacino's best roles.
[00:04:21]  He's not yelling, he's screaming, it's excellent.
[00:04:25]  And the metaphor underscores, You know, the relationship and the dynamic between the two actors and the protagonists.
[00:04:33]  I can give you this artistic literary stuff.
[00:04:35]  But it shows how contrasting personalities and influence and this incredible interplay as they make their way through this cross-country odyssey.
[00:04:49]  And there were some great lines.
[00:04:51]  One of them was, you know what's happening, right?
[00:04:53]  With Frenchie and, oh my!
[00:04:56]  God, I...
[00:04:57]  Gene Hackman is so terrific.
[00:04:59]  He's got that smile.
[00:05:01]  And, of course, there was tremendous commercial challenges.
[00:05:05]  You don't want to hear the story about Scarecrow, but let me just tell you why it's important.
[00:05:10]  When I was calling talk radios at the time, this was in 80, early 80s, this is, what, 45 years ago, when I was just calling as a hobby.
[00:05:23]  Where I was in Florida, we didn't have names.
[00:05:29]  You didn't have a name.
[00:05:31]  You were from, you know, your town.
[00:05:33]  You know, Pinellas Park or St. Peter, Tampa, whatever.
[00:05:36]  You didn't have a name.
[00:05:36]  And I thought, that was the most stupid thing in the world.
[00:05:38]  I'm not Tampa.
[00:05:41]  So I had watched that movie.
[00:05:44]  And I said, you know what?
[00:05:45]  I said, from now on, my name is Lionel.
[00:05:47]  Because I had this Francis Lionel Delbuki, and it was over and over.
[00:05:51]  I was just thinking about this, and just out of happenstance, I said, my name is Lionel.
[00:05:59]  Okay.
[00:06:00]  The next time I called up, I had forgotten that completely.
[00:06:05]  And when the board operator or the screener answered the phone, he said, oh, is this Lionel?
[00:06:12]  My voice is...
[00:06:13]  Rather unique.
[00:06:15]  He said, is this Lionel?
[00:06:16]  I said, what?
[00:06:17]  I said, oh yeah, right, yeah, Lionel, sure.
[00:06:19]  And that was it.
[00:06:20]  That was it.
[00:06:21]  It snuck.
[00:06:22]  One name like God.
[00:06:25]  Which was a line from an Indian cab driver.
[00:06:27]  Imagine that.
[00:06:28]  And we used to have Indian cab drivers.
[00:06:29]  Now we don't.
[00:06:30]  We have Ubers.
[00:06:31]  But in New York, this one guy says, oh, you're Lionel.
[00:06:34]  He goes, Lionel what?
[00:06:36]  I said, well, Lionel, you know, like, you know...
[00:06:40]  Cher Liberace, a bad example.
[00:06:43]  Elvis, he goes, oh, like God.
[00:06:45]  I said, that's it!
[00:06:47]  I thought it was funny.
[00:06:48]  He didn't get it.
[00:06:49]  Anyway, so Lionel, mononymous, one name like God.
[00:06:53]  Now, the concept of this death is really interesting to find out what happens and what are the theories behind Gene Hackman's death.
[00:07:05]  We don't know.
[00:07:07]  It's very interesting.
[00:07:08]  In the context of passing, there are theories and frameworks to discuss this.
[00:07:14]  It might be, as Dr. Bodden and others have suggested, it might be carbon monoxide, either from a boiler, they could have left a car running, and in a garage which was adjacent.
[00:07:31]  I feel sorry for, we don't know anything!
[00:07:35]  We don't know anything, just like the child, the girl actress.
[00:07:39]  We don't know anything.
[00:07:40]  We're not there.
[00:07:41]  But it seems like the fact that the dog, that the dog is there, because he is his wife, and he was rather reclusive, that that certainly may have been a part of it.
[00:07:57]  And we don't know.
[00:07:58]  We don't know.
[00:07:59]  And I'm not going to pretend it, to tell you.
[00:08:01]  And I love the way they have, Fox has on this, This medical examiner, who doesn't know anything?
[00:08:09]  Medical examiners and forensic pathologists are asked, what do you think?
[00:08:13]  And he says, I don't know.
[00:08:15]  You got any information?
[00:08:17]  Nope.
[00:08:17]  What do you think?
[00:08:18]  Well, can I look at the body?
[00:08:19]  Nope.
[00:08:20]  What do you think?
[00:08:22]  So anyway, they're just trying to spread the mourning.
[00:08:26]  Look, as I said to you, I'm not trying to tell you that my sense of Gene Hackman...
[00:08:35]  It's more than yours or your loss.
[00:08:37]  He had a great life, I would imagine.
[00:08:40]  It was interesting.
[00:08:42]  The French Connection, when he did Billy Friedkin with the French...
[00:08:47]  I call him Billy.
[00:08:47]  Billy Friedkin in What Was This?
[00:08:50]  That was a movie.
[00:08:51]  You have to hear what happened in the background.
[00:08:52]  Gene Hackman hated Popeye Doyle.
[00:08:54]  Hated him because he's a rather liberal.
[00:08:57]  And he had to get dark.
[00:09:03]  I don't know.
[00:09:04]  I just think you should just be an actor.
[00:09:07]  Gene Hackman's father also left him.
[00:09:12]  One day Gene was playing as a kid and his father drove away and kind of waved at him and just never saw him again.
[00:09:19]  Remember the scene when the frog won?
[00:09:23]  When the French by the way his name was he was actually a Spanish whatever his name is.
[00:09:31]  Remember the story?
[00:09:32]  I'm not going to go through that, but remember the scene in the subway when he drives by, any kind of way?
[00:09:37]  I always wondered, and I don't know if you made that clear, was Gene Hackman reminiscent of his father who, when he left, as he was playing, his father drove off as a kid and never saw him again.
[00:09:49]  So, in any event, I loved that guy.
[00:09:55]  I loved his smile.
[00:09:58]  I know it sounds kind of goofy, but I loved...
[00:10:01]  His smile.
[00:10:05]  And I just wanted to share that with you.
[00:10:09]  So I am Lionel because of that movie, because of Al Pacino, and because of Gene Hackman.
[00:10:15]  And there you have it, my friend.