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July 18, 2023 - Lionel Nation
16:35
Unveiling AI and AGI's Existential Horrors: Lionel and George Galloway
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Lionel, welcome back to the show.
It's always an honor, a pleasure to see you.
Can I just get a small matter out of the way?
It's potentially not a small matter, but on the face of it, it's small.
Is there nobody in the White House, in the entourage, that can stop Biden slobbering, sniffing, kissing other people's small children?
No.
I can't for the life of me.
You know, George, I can't understand why nobody in his particular entourage, his group, would have said to him, whatever you do, whatever you say, Whatever you drool, whatever you locomote sluggishly, whatever you do, we can't help that.
But you are not going to go near a child.
You're not going to be whispering, this is a secret between us.
It is a depravity nonpareil.
And George, it makes me think, this must be done on purpose because there's no reason why it would be allowed in the first place.
And I'm finding myself second-guessing and triple-guessing the obvious.
It's beyond.
I will tell you, the greatest thing that will ever happen to us is Bobby Kennedy Jr.
And if there is a fantasy that I could indulge and pursue, it would be Bobby Kennedy Jr. going third party and handing the next election to whatever Republican is there.
And right now, as it stands, it would be Donald Trump.
The Democrats have been in a coma for the longest time.
Bobby Kennedy came along and all of a sudden he's revitalized it.
So, let us hope, let us pray.
But, George, if you do not mind, and by the way, I'm beyond honored to be here.
You know, the term existential threat is sometimes used far too much to the point where I don't think people really understand what it means.
You know, something that threatens our existence, our very being.
But there is something right now that is not being handled by anybody.
Nobody's dealing with it.
Nobody really even comes close to approximating what it pretends and portends.
And to wax Vatican Pythonic, it could be the end of everything that we know.
And that is artificial general intelligence.
Not AI.
Not robots.
Not somebody losing their job at the foundry.
But artificial general intelligence.
When that happens, George, that's it.
It's over.
And I'm not saying this to be provocative.
Whatever you thought about nuclear weapons, that at least theoretically could be stopped by us.
Imagine, George, if I were to create a nuclear weapon that can replicate itself, multiply itself, increase its own lethality, turn your ability to stop it off, turn that off, you would say, but this can't be.
We are right now in something that is going to test us.
And I don't believe anybody in the media either has a handle on it, wants to talk about it because it's far too depressing.
There was a wonderful man by the name of Max Tegmark who came up with four situations that will scare you when you think about this.
And when we're done, and when you're driving home or you're showering or bathing, and it hits you.
Remember I'm telling you this.
You are seeing our demise.
Number one, this is not a robot.
This is not something that you program.
This is not Roomba.
This is not something that paints a car at some type of a plant.
This is something which is a new form of consciousness.
It's like creating an 800-pound gorilla and giving it a 300 IQ.
When four conditions happen, it's over.
Number one, recursive self-improvement.
What does that mean?
The ability to write its own code.
The ability to basically remove itself from the imprisonment that you've given it.
Recursive self-improvement, writing its own code.
Number two, when it understands human behavior, human fear, persuasion, lust, jealousy, anxiety.
When it learns and can master how we act, that's number two.
Number three, when it has access to all of the information, not just who won cricket scores 50 years ago, no, no, no, but everybody's license number, address, budget, people's names, where they live, weather, anything that has ever been recorded or subject to be recorded as datum or data.
It will know this.
And number four, the ability to write its own API or its own application, its own apps.
I want you to imagine this.
I want you to imagine, George, that you, one day, have access to an AGI and its artificial general intelligence.
And you either have asked it or it on its own.
Because it will have, in essence, a form of consciousness all its own.
It will reason.
Remember, it has a 300-400 IQ.
There is no comparison.
And it hears George Galloway say, you know, I would love to be the number one talk show.
I know you're the mother of all talk shows, but you say, I want to be the greatest, and the following are my competitors.
Let's say you were to imagine that.
I know it's hard to believe, but let's say there are three people that are your competitors.
This particular application says, I know just how to do that.
And it kills your competitors.
Or breaks into their system, hacks their code, disenables their ability to access their own signal, destroys the internet, destroys their...
And you say, no, no, wait, wait, wait, stop.
And it says, oh, no, no, no, I'm not done yet.
And you say, stop.
And you say, stop to whom?
There's no end to this.
There is nothing that we can understand.
You know, George, you said you are a religious person, and that's wonderful.
I tend to be irreligious, but that does not mean that I don't recognize morality and I don't understand the mystery of life and how some things don't make any sense.
But George, we as humans believe that being a human is the quintessence of existence, that nothing...
Nothing in the world, nothing on this planet certainly is as superior, is as great and grand as a human.
A human that is created from love and is given birth and that it is the we are homo sapiens.
Somebody suggested we might be homo sentiens.
We may not be the most sapient.
We could be overdone and overruled immediately.
The Vatican Very interesting.
Has suggested that were we to ever address or confront extraterrestrials, EBEs, extraterrestrial biological entities, UFOs, aliens, whatever, they would not be subject necessarily to original sin.
They would not need redemption.
They would not need to be born again.
Think about that.
God's chosen people, and we have to seek permission.
Whereas someone else doesn't, think about what that would do to people's minds.
That's nothing.
What if you have this entity, and it's not on a phone, it's not a device, it's just here.
And it has a name, if you like.
It can talk to you.
It understands all about you.
It knows you, your family, your children's names, your idiosyncrasies.
It can smell.
It can detect.
Through your breath, perhaps maybe pre-diabetes, pre-Alzheimer's, it can look at you, and by virtue of looking at the way blood flows, it can tell whether you're upset or anxious.
It is like nothing you've ever seen.
Imagine, George, if one day, God forbid, one of your beautiful children's voices were to be intercepted by this.
Again, what is it?
That's the hardest part.
And it calls you, and it takes three seconds, and it can mimic your child's voice.
And you get a phone call, and it's your son, it's your daughter, it's your wife.
And they're in distress.
They need money.
They have forgotten something.
Who knows?
And not only that, it will know persuasion.
It will know fear.
It will be able to enlist the help of...
Kidnappers, perhaps, by going into banks and securing funds and transferring it.
Remember, this is an evil force that knows everything you know times a million.
And none of it can be called back.
And the thing that scares folks in AI is this thing called alignment.
And alignment is a nice way of saying, do its powers, do they comport?
Do they reflect our sense of morality, our sense of right or wrong?
What if it were to get into this system and just for grins give Vladimir Putin or Zelensky or NATO or Xi Jinping the idea that ICBMs are on their way?
What if it, by virtue of some weird AGI psychopathy, decides it wants to create The end of the world in order to accelerate our demise.
Let me throw this one at you.
What if every single thing that we have accomplished since appearing from the slime and perambulating on the soil and going through a series of evolutionary whatever your belief is, that everything up till now has been leading up to the day.
When artificial general intelligence is created, it has been waiting to be unleashed by us up till now, and once it has happened, and it has occurred, because greed is never going to get in the way of common sense.
But what if it then turns around and says, thank you for your consideration, thank you for your help, thank you for unleashing us, now be gone.
You are of no use to us anymore.
It is something, George, the problem with anything you can talk about today on this wonderful program of yours, nothing is beyond the ability of your audience to understand except this.
Because this transcends, this is science fiction on hallucinogenics.
This is Arthur Clarke, this is 2001, this is Asimov robotics on a scale we've never seen.
And once it is released, It can't be called back.
You don't know what it is.
You don't know where it goes.
It doesn't lend itself.
Once it's here, you sit back and say, do we realize it?
Do you see the internet shut down?
Do you see cable systems shut down?
Do you see elections foible?
Do you see locks not work?
Or, and let's not forget the idea, maybe perhaps it might say, Because it just decoded protein folding, which nobody thought anybody could ever do.
What if it says, we're going to accelerate cancer research?
What if the next time your wife or your loved one, instead of going to a doctor, has a mammogram?
And this device, this ability to learn, looks at every mammogram ever taken in the history of mankind.
Learn what to look for.
And in a picosecond, it can immediately detect whether it's cancer, pre-cancer, chart a course of treatment, like that.
By not one physician with 25 years experience, but a million years of experience.
What if it's able to figure out juvenile diabetes, juvenile cancers, leukemias, by virtue of this power?
So it can be good.
The thing is, we don't know.
We hope that it is guided by something, this alignment, that is consistent with our worldview.
Because, George, if it's not, if for some reason it shows this natural, what we would call depravity or psychopathy, it's over.
And in a weird way, Putin and Zelensky would stop and look at each other and say, wait a minute, hold it.
What do we do?
Israel and Palestine, it's almost like in a weird way, it could bring mankind together to figure out how do we stop this?
And then we're going to say, where did this come from?
OpenAI, Google, Microsoft, and all of these people whose names you've never heard of, and people who've been warning us, Eliezer Yudkowsky and Tegmark and even Elon Musk, they were telling you they wanted a six-month...
Pump the brakes.
A moratorium.
But oh, no, no.
Human greed said we're not going to stop.
We have shareholders to think about.
And I want everybody, when we're done, of course when we're done, to think about this and learn, read, listen to what's being said.
Because this is something that the human species has never, ever dealt with.
If you thought nuclear weaponry was something, if you thought that was an existential threat, my dear friend George, this is like nothing you've ever seen, and dare I say, nothing you could ever even imagine.
Thank you.
Well, I want everybody after the show to play Zegar and Evans in the year 2525.
I forget what the date was that if man is still alive, God's going to look around and decide that actually there is no further point.
Lionel, fascinating, fascinating.
Thank you very much for that tour de horizon of the dystopian.
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