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May 31, 2023 - Lionel Nation
31:55
Is Panhandling Free Speech?
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Okay.
Here we go.
Listen to this.
And let's see how good you are at your critical thinking.
Let's see how much you know about the Constitution.
Let's see.
Let's see if you know what you're talking about.
Is panhandling free speech?
Right off the bat.
Is panhandling free speech?
Is it protected speech?
Can you go up to somebody and say, excuse me, pardon me, I'm with the Denton County Sheriff's Office.
You can't do this.
You can't.
You're bothering people.
You're scaring people.
You're smelly.
You look like you're drunk.
You're not, but maybe because you're just crazy.
And you're standing up there, and you just can't do this.
You can't do this.
The shop owner says, hey, people don't want to see this.
It's a beautiful day, and we don't want to see you, and you're...
We don't even know what you're talking about.
We don't even know what you're talking about.
What are you talking about?
What are you talking about?
Get out!
Can you do that?
It's panhandling.
Now I, when I, when I do this, I think I say, oh my god.
During the blue book days, when we used to have blue books, we used to have in law school, we'd have this little book, and it'd be serialized, you know, the number at the top, and you wrote in them, you just wrote, how many do you need?
And the more you wrote, the more...
The more you write, okay?
The more you write, the more people think you know.
So how does this work?
How does this work?
First question I ask is, what is panhandling?
What does that mean?
What does that mean?
Define that.
Is it aggressive?
Is it solicitation for funds?
How does this work?
What does the Supreme Court say?
What is the law?
What have the cases decided regarding this?
I always want to know what the law says.
Obviously.
What does this even mean?
It's the most fascinating subject you're ever going to see.
You have no idea.
And I looked up the word panhandle because supposedly at the time they would have a tin pan.
They also thought that maybe, maybe the word was, how do we say this?
Maybe it was from the Spanish pan, or pan, as we say, for bread.
I don't know.
What does the Supreme Court say?
The Supreme Court says the First Amendment protects it if it covers charitable appeals for funds.
Charitable appeals for funds.
What is panhandling?
Is this a charitable appeal for fund?
Yes!
But is there more to it?
Can you...
Now, by the way, before you answer this question, I'm not asking you what you think.
I'm asking you what the issues are.
This is critical thinking.
And you, I want you to ask a question.
Don't make a statement.
Ask a question.
For example, can you limit where the panhandling occurs?
How the panhandling occurs.
When?
Three in the morning?
Can it obstruct?
Can you go out into the street?
Must you be on the corner?
Can you limit the type of panhandling?
The volume of panhandling?
What is being done?
What is panhandling?
You're seeking charitable funds.
What is busking?
Busking is performing on street corners and the like in order to receive monies.
Right?
That's busking.
Okay.
What if I went to...
The other day, it was Sunday, we were walking.
It was a beautiful day in New York, on the Upper West Side, and we noticed there's more of this...
Guy sitting there, smoking a blunt.
Not a lot, but enough.
It was annoying.
Nobody likes this.
He's got a constitutional right to charitable funds.
He's a bum.
He's a bum.
That's what he is, right?
That's what people think.
Okay, let me ask you this question.
What if I handed him a harmonica?
And all of a sudden, there's a guy who goes, Hey, you're for another.
What is this?
Just a minute.
Hey, you're for another.
Just a couple of notes.
Oh, he's an authentic Mississippi blues.
What?
He's busking.
He's not busking.
He's got a cup.
Throw me a thing.
I'm playing some authentic blues.
He can't even play it.
What are you, a music aficionado?
How do you know if he can play it or not?
You think I'm kidding?
That would change everything.
Because he's not just asking to give me money.
He's performing.
This is...
This is in the tradition of street performers in Shields and Yarnell.
Remember that?
Remember mimes?
Remember those horrible mimes?
Remember that joke?
How do you shoot a mime?
With a silencer.
Think about that one.
Is it...
What if you...
Wait, wait, wait.
You mean to tell me...
That's right.
He's holding up the First Amendment again.
The First Amendment covers this?
Yep.
Absolutely.
And you're doing this to get rid of homelessness.
This has nothing to do with homelessness.
Oh, yes, it does.
It's about homelessness.
I don't care about their home situation.
I don't want to see them.
Oh, I'm so sorry.
What about a little bake sale?
Did you ever come out one time and we're at a Target?
There was this jazz band.
This jazz band that was By the way, I get these pollen alerts.
I don't know what I'm supposed to do.
What?
Rain?
Okay.
Pollen?
Don't breathe?
In any event.
You go outside and there's this...
This is like in Tarpon Springs.
This was 40 years ago.
We happened to be there.
And there's this band outside and they're playing.
And in front of a...
Not a target.
No target for me.
No, no, no, no.
I was never a target fan anyway.
But anyway.
And sure as hell not now.
But anyway.
So they were, you know, raising money for uniforms or whatever.
And they're playing this.
And it wasn't the best jazz band.
Well, what's that?
Is that...
Well, that's different.
A bunch of nice kids.
You know, you're very demonstrative with your ability to differentiate between them.
Well, yes, I am.
But this guy, this guy's smelly.
He's probably relieved himself in his clothing.
I don't want to get near him.
Might even be a health problem.
This I don't want to see.
Oh, so it's about you.
Yes, it's about me.
Somebody writes a very good word here.
What about intimidation?
And the word and the phrase, if you get into this, See, you would be on our legal team.
You would be regarding...
Let me see.
There's some really good stuff.
I love this stuff, by the way.
I love this.
Panhandling!
There's a wonderful thing called the First Amendment Encyclopedia.
And I think it's out of...
I forget what it is.
But it says, Panhandling is a form of solicitation or begging derived from the impression created by someone holding out his hand to beg or using a container to collect money.
When municipalities regulate panhandling, a form of free speech, First Amendment rights become an issue.
Supporters of panhandling regulation contend it's a safety measure designed to protect people from harassment and other crimes.
Opponents of such regulation contend it is a blatant suppression of First Amendment.
How about this?
Passive versus aggressive panhandling.
There are two types of panhandling, passive and aggressive.
Passive panhandling is soliciting without threat or menace, often without exchanging any words at all.
Just a cup or a hand is held up.
Aggressive panhandling is soliciting...
Coercively, with actual or implied threats or menacing actions.
If a panhandler uses physical force or extremely aggressive actions, the panhandling law may constitute robbery.
And don't forget what robbery is.
Robbery is assault plus theft.
Or larceny, really.
Theft is one thing.
Throw in the component of assault, and you've got robbery.
And that's the way that is.
So it gets very interesting.
True story years ago, a friend of mine, now deceased, was standing on the, he was walking, and in New York, you may not remember this, but in New York, there was an official cup.
It was a Greek diner cup that everybody used.
It had the Parthenon on it, blue and white.
Everybody remembers this.
You don't see him anymore, but it was wherever you, if the guy in the corner is selling muffins or coffee, you had this one cup.
It was the official Cup for coffee, and it was the official panhandling cup.
You had to have it.
If you didn't, nobody recognized it.
So one day my friend was walking down the street, feeling particularly prosperous.
He had closed a deal, I don't know, something.
And there was a fellow standing there, a bunch of construction people, and the guy's standing there, and he's got his hand kind of out, you know, just kind of hanging over this barricade.
His hand's over, and he's got a cup.
So my friend reaches into his pocket.
Pulls a couple of coins out, drops it, and he hears, he hears the kerplunk.
It's filled with coffee!
And this guy says, hey, what the hell are you doing?
And he had to dump it out, and my friend moved along very quickly, trying to be nice, trying to be beneficent in philanthropic, and it didn't work.
We used to have in New York City these things called, these were the best.
This was so smart.
Squeegee men.
You come out of the Lincoln Tunnel, Here they come.
And I'm not telling you about demographics or anything like that, but invariably, it was very rarely a nice Greek chap with a bow tie.
These were people that would scare you.
And this guy would come up, he'd see you just standing there, and he had a bucket.
With no water in it.
That's my favorite.
It was a bucket.
There was nothing in there.
And a squeegee.
And if he were allowed to actually use it on your windshield, he would basically smear everything up with this, I don't know what this thing is, no water, no nothing, this thing.
And he could also threaten to bend your windshield wipers or damage you, frighten you.
Especially if you're not used to this.
And you would give them anything just to go away.
Leave me alone.
They'd go, come on, come on.
A little more, a little more.
There wasn't a set price.
That's not vending.
Excuse me.
That's not panhandling.
That's threatening.
That is, I'm going to hold, I'm going to damage your car.
That's extortion.
That's buying protection.
Whatever you want to call it.
That's exactly what that was.
People hated it.
Rudy Giuliani said, when I'm mayor, I'm getting rid of that.
Dinkins couldn't figure it out.
Nobody could figure it out.
What do we do?
They've got rights.
Rudy said, screw that.
From the moment, almost, maybe even before, when he said, so help me God, bam, they were gone.
Gone.
I don't know where they went.
I always thought they were lobotomized and sent to some gulag somewhere, some island.
They're gone.
And they've never come back.
And every now and then, The word would go out like, they're back!
Who?
The squeegee men!
What?
I saw it!
Oh, God, no!
Even the post would say, they're back!
I mean, you go nuts!
Shooting, distress, no problem!
People, well, you know, robberies, going into Sephora's and CVS and big garbage bags, well, you know, whatever.
But squeegee men?
No!
Uh-uh!
People, urgh!
I mean, the alarms!
So that was a different story.
Now let's talk about this.
There's a new statute that was signed in California that removes, listen to this, loitering, and you're not going to like what I say, by the way, because remember this, I'm a constitutional purist.
I'm a constitutional, this is, you're not going to like what I have to say.
If you don't like the First Amendment, get rid of it.
We would have no problem.
You know that crazy woman in CUNY?
Did you read about that?
She gives this hate-filled, anti-Israel, anti-Semitic hate speech at City University of New York Law School.
She's a commencement speaker.
Fatima, Mohammed, they're going crazy over what she said.
I mean, Israel, this and the bombing.
I said, okay.
All right.
Do I agree with it?
Two issues.
Do I agree with it?
Or do you stop it?
Do I agree with it?
No!
I don't agree with it.
Do I agree with Roger Waters?
No!
No!
Do I agree with Target?
No!
Burning a flag.
Do I agree with that?
No!
Should that be subject to criminal sanction?
No!
That's speech.
That's symbolic speech.
Supreme Court said that.
What I agree with has nothing to do with the law.
What I agree with has nothing to do with the law.
Sometimes, I don't think there should be laws against possession of marijuana.
Do I agree with it?
No!
Uh-uh.
Oh, let me tell you something.
Years ago, somebody...
I talked to a friend of mine who goes, wow!
You sound like...
I said, oh, I don't think anybody should smoke.
I said, this isn't marijuana.
I don't know what you're talking about.
No, no.
In the 70s or 60s, whatever it is, that's a different story.
80s, that was marijuana, if that's what you wanted to do.
This is a different story.
So I'm not against marijuana smoking.
I'm against this.
It's just like chroming.
You know, these kids are killing themselves by chroming.
These kids are so stupid.
I'm sorry.
I am sorry.
I've got to say something.
Do you have kids?
Do you follow these TikTok things?
Chroming?
I swear to you, and I mean this, and I mean this.
I mean what I'm telling you when I tell you this.
I'm not just saying this.
If we had a kid right now, at that age, I'm going to say, I'm going to take you someplace.
Get ready.
Get ready.
What is it?
Oh, I'm going to show you something.
What's this?
Here, put this on.
It covers your nose.
Why?
I'm taking you to a morgue.
What?
Yep.
I talked to a friend of mine.
He's going to let us in.
I want you to see this.
What?
I want you to see this.
And they told me to call me when they've got some new people about your age.
I want you to see this.
I want to show you this.
Let me show you how easy it is to kill yourself.
It's simple.
If that's what you want to do, if that's what you want to play around with, because they say, oh, it's your age.
You feel so impervious.
Really?
You do?
Let me show you how impervious and how bulletproof you are and how indestructible you are.
Let me show you.
You're going to get a different attitude about this.
See, that's the thing.
We have this weird attitude about people feel like they're indestructible because we hide.
We completely Overwhelm them with sex and with this and that.
But when it comes to the realities of life and death, oh, we don't show them.
Oh, I'll show them.
That'll get your attention.
Uh-huh.
Can you see that one there?
It's about your age.
He ain't coming back.
That's it.
How do you like that?
Either drunk driving, doing something, doing something stupid, because they feel, what about these kids who are jumping out of windows and jumping?
I mean, it's all over the place.
So I believe in one thing.
You know my political opinion.
Especially when it comes to foreign policy.
I'm a realist.
I'm a realist.
I don't care about...
I don't care about whatever it is.
I'm a realist.
We were talking the other day.
A friend of mine.
We have a friend.
This guy is so obese.
I mean, this...
Whatever.
And he has a history of problems in his family.
And I said, don't think for a moment.
That you're going to get anywhere with this.
Why?
Because I'm a realist.
He ain't going to listen to you.
You're wasting your time.
You're just wasting...
Some things are just...
Things are just a waste of time.
Okay.
So going back to what I said.
You got this crazy woman in CUNY.
What do you want to do?
What do you want to do?
You want to arrest her?
What do you want to do?
You want to charge her?
What do you want to do?
Well, CUNY shouldn't say that.
And the best part are the people who are upset with what she said, because it's anti-Semitic in nature, say, yeah, but if she had said something about white nationalism, you would have thought nothing about it.
If she would have said something about Trump, you would have thought, well, that's different.
Why is that different?
Oh, so I get it.
So we want to ban stuff that you don't like.
Oh, I see.
Okay.
This Roger Waters.
Why is anybody even listening to Roger Waters?
He's the John Lennon of Pink Floyd.
John Lennon, I think, was the...
Least talented of the entire group!
And plus he got into this thing where, you know, I'm into my political ideas.
It's childish.
But he's entitled to say what he wants.
Roger Waters is entitled to say what he wants.
If you don't like Roger Waters, don't go see it.
It's stupid.
Well, what do you want to do?
You want to arrest the guy?
I know it's Berlin.
I know it's Germany.
What do people want to do?
I don't know.
You want to just complain?
Well, let's target.
Well, what do you want to do?
Boycott it.
Now, let's go back to this panhandling.
When I was a prosecutor, there was something that said, loitering or prowling for the purposes of inducing or solicitation of prostitution or the like.
Okay, first of all, you ready for this?
What is a loiter?
I always have a joke.
I'll give you five bucks if you show me what a lawyer is and ten bucks if you show me what a prowl is.
We had loitering or prowling.
What is that?
How do you go up to somebody?
Sir, you're loitering.
Stop it.
You're begging money.
You're scaring people.
You smell.
And put that harmonica away.
Don't give me that.
You're not a blues man.
You're not Willie Dixon or something.
Come on.
Stop it.
Now what are you doing?
I'm just sitting here.
You're loitering.
I'm just hanging around.
What's wrong with that?
I can't hang around?
Define loitering.
So what they're doing right now in California, and I'm going to be talking about this later, there's a new law that says in the old days, when you would see somebody who was walking around and who was acting, dare I say, looking like a prostitute, wearing scantily clad clothes, going up to cars, Going up to, you know.
The police could stop them, could stop them, stop them for purposes of asking, you know, what are you doing?
What's going on?
And maybe stop while they're doing, stop human trafficking.
Okay.
Now they pass the law that says you can't do that.
And the moment they legalize prostitution or sex work, it's gone completely.
Gone.
You can't stop them at all.
Now, in 1968, there was a Supreme Court case, Terry against Ohio.
It's called a Terry stop.
All the cops know this.
In order to stop somebody, to go up and talk to them, in order to talk to them, you have to have a reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed, was committed, or is about to be committed.
And when you go up and you're able to articulate this in court, you're able to conduct a brief, kind of an exterior pat-down search to make sure they don't have weapons.
And if you have to, if you have probable cause of belief, that they're, you know, you feel something that's got a handle and a blade.
It's a knife!
You can reach in, take it, and maybe arrest the guy for whatever it is.
But, that's it.
But you've got to be able to articulate stopping them.
Perfect situation.
You and your partner are working at 3 in the morning and you're parked across the street from a hardware store.
It's opening around.
It's 3 in the morning.
Nothing.
And there's this guy.
He's walking back and forth and back and forth.
And you're looking.
And all of a sudden he's doing this a lot.
And he looks.
It looks like that guy's got a screwdriver.
He even has a flashlight.
And he's like...
And then he walks away.
And he's...
He seems to be very interested in the door and the lock.
That is a reasonable suspicion that a crime is about to be committed, namely burglary, whatever it is.
So you can walk over and say, excuse me, I want to have a brief custodial detention.
What does that mean?
You're in custody.
You cannot leave.
Are you under arrest?
No.
You're not under arrest.
I'm not charging you with anything.
Arrest is you're in custody plus you're going to be charged with something.
But merely holding somebody in custody.
And by the way, if you watch TV, cops make you think they can just make you stop.
Come here!
Come here, what are you doing?
Excuse me, who are you?
I'm not going to answer your question.
Oh, why are you?
You know, the old days.
Come here, I want you to come down to the station.
Who are you?
Do you have a warrant?
I'm not going to talk to you.
But they know, they hope you don't know this.
So anyway, so you go into court, and you have to explain to the judge, This is why I did it.
I stopped them.
Okay.
Sounds good to me.
So what are you going to do now?
Officer, what was your reasonable suspicion that a crime was being committed?
Well, Your Honor, there was a woman.
And by the way, in California, they saw this in front of a Catholic school.
These women, scantily clad, were going up and they were getting into cars.
Is that against the law?
Well, you know and I know what they're doing.
What are they doing?
I have reason to believe that...
Reasonable suspicion that maybe there's prostitution going on.
Stopping and going in?
Interesting.
Interesting.
Well, if you take away the prostitution laws, it doesn't exist anymore.
It does not exist.
What are you going to do?
And you're stuck.
Because you passed that stupid law that wanted to get rid of, you wanted to legalize the sex work.
And now pimps, this is a red letter day.
This is what it's about.
It's about human trafficking.
I can't stop you.
I can't do anything.
What am I going to do?
What am I going to do?
I don't know.
Can't stop them.
Stop them for what?
What's the difference?
Because now she's, is she panhandling?
Is she busking?
Does she want to perform?
She wants to perform.
You just got rid of all that.
Why?
Because you want to systematically destroy everything that seems to be normal in this world.
That's what you want to do.
You want to destroy everything because you love disorder.
That's what you do.
That's what you're about.
Simple.
And it's happening right now.
And nobody's paying attention.
Because, as usual, most people just don't, I don't know, they may or may not care, Whatever.
And you're going to see this zombie-like Night of the Living Dead.
You're going to see people come out of the woodwork.
And then we got this.
This pesky constitution.
I always stick with this.
I don't care what it is.
Years ago, I told you about this.
We had a case.
When I was prosecutor, there was a statute that said it is unlawful to loiter a prowl for the purposes of inducing or whatever it is, sex or what have you.
And sure enough, in this one particular city, one particular area, these women would show up with these daisy dukes, they used to call them men, from Dukes of Hazzard.
And they would stand there and they'd wave at cars.
Hey!
Hey!
And people say, there's a bunch of hookers!
Well, look what they're doing!
Hey!
You want to charge them with what?
You can't do that.
They're waving?
Yeah, but look how they're dressed.
You know, dressed, you'd be surprised what you could wear.
You know that in New York, a woman being topless is completely legal?
It's completely legal.
There's no prohibition against it.
In Times Square, there was a group of people called desnulas.
Women...
Who were topless, but their body was painted, painted with this body paint, red, white, and blue, all over the place.
This was here, and kids were, oh my God, and what are we doing?
They kind of went away.
They stopped.
People went nuts, but it went away.
So, we were wondering, what am I...
How do you do this?
Now, at the same time of these prostitutes waving, there were people standing in the corner with these firemen holding a boot for Jerry's kids.
What if, just like I gave a harmonica to the vagrant on the street, what if I give a boot to say, we're raising money for Jerry's kids?
No, you're not!
Yes, I am!
And I'm getting in the car to finish the transaction.
Why can't I do this?
Why?
Because you're in front of a school.
But I'm not doing anything.
I'm not talking to the kids.
I know what you're doing.
This is prostitution.
No, it isn't.
Why?
Because you legalize it.
It's called sex work and there's something I'm doing wrong.
You see how this thing works?
And those people...
Those people who say, well, they have a right to speak, and they have a right to speak.
Okay, so does this woman at the CUNY have a right?
No, no, that's different.
Why is that different?
Well, because that's hate.
Excuse me?
What?
Does she have the right to spew hate?
No, she doesn't.
Yes, she does.
That's your hate.
Because what you are saying there, there are parts of the world that would applaud this.
During the troubles in the 70s, in Northern Ireland, I could take somebody, if I could say, England, get out of Ireland!
Yay!
Go across the street.
England, get out of Ireland!
Boo!
Same speech, different audience.
One was hate, one was...
America doesn't know what it's in for.
America doesn't know what it's in for.
It doesn't understand what the Constitution is.
And let me also tell you something.
The Constitution, First Amendment, always wins out.
I don't care if it's Dylan Mulvaney.
I don't care if it's Target.
I don't care if it's Disney.
I don't care if it's Major League Baseball.
I don't care if it's Anheuser-Busch.
I don't care who it is.
The Constitution always works.
There's ways around it.
But Congress shall pass no law.
The federal government, the state government cannot pass a law that limits speech.
Do you understand this?
It cannot.
Do this.
And you're going to see.
You're going to see.
And you're not going to like what you see either.
You're not going to like any of this.
And watch it.
I'm telling you right now.
You're not going to like this either because I'm going to be there defending people saying the most horrible things and doing the most horrible stuff because I am not going to let the First Amendment Fail or get trampled because everybody who has ever objected to it had something horrible.
By the way, it doesn't protect nice speech either.
So think about that.
It's going to be all we have more to say about that.
So don't forget, free speech.
You wanted it.
You got it.
All right, dear friends.
Have a great and glorious day.
See you tonight, 7 p.m. Eastern Time, same bat time, same bat channel.
Until then, remember these words.
Always, as I always say to you, it's very simple.
The monkey's dead.
The show's over.
See ya.
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