Lionel Nation - The Trial and Political Landmine of E. Jean Carroll and the Suburban Mom Vote
Aired: 2023-04-27
Duration: 11:33


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[00:01:31]  I am a trial lawyer by profession.
[00:01:34]  I have been in the trenches.
[00:01:36]  I have seen things you would never believe.
[00:01:39]  I have seen trials where I thought, I had the most airtight case, person, whatever it is, destroy or be destroyed by virtue of a jury looking at this and seeing something I didn't or realizing there's some unlikability factor either to my client or my victim if I'm a prosecutor.

=== Jury Appeal Matters (09:29) ===

[00:02:08]  So I learned right away it's jury appeal.
[00:02:10]  I don't care what it is.
[00:02:12]  You can take two cases, two battery cases, two.
[00:02:19]  One is involving some strapping 18-year-old kid who's six foot tall and there's a half bat who was clobbered or hit somebody.
[00:02:28]  And then an 89-year-old grandma who might have inflicted more damage or was hurt less.
[00:02:34]  And that jury is going to like that grandma.
[00:02:38]  I don't care who you are.
[00:02:40]  I don't care if it's Ma Barker.
[00:02:42]  I know what I'm talking about.
[00:02:44]  And people will say, oh, no, no, no, because they think to themselves, well, because I see it this way, that's the issue.
[00:02:51]  No, the issue is not what you think, it's what do they think.
[00:02:55]  No, but that's not true.
[00:02:57]  When Burger King puts out an ad for, we have the best french fries, McDonald's doesn't say, well, take that.
[00:03:04]  Nobody's going to believe that.
[00:03:06]  Because we have the better french fries.
[00:03:08]  Well, it doesn't work like that.
[00:03:10]  You've got to respond to it.
[00:03:12]  You've got to be ready to handle it.
[00:03:14]  It's not about truth.
[00:03:15]  It's not about who's right.
[00:03:17]  People on the right, dare I say, the more active kind of sub-constituency of the right, they have no idea what they're talking about.
[00:03:27]  None!
[00:03:28]  So they figure, well, because I think such.
[00:03:31]  Okay, E. Jean Carroll.
[00:03:36]  I don't know what to tell you about this.
[00:03:38]  There are people who say, oh, she's crazy.
[00:03:41]  She's nuts.
[00:03:43]  Oh, you're a Trump fan.
[00:03:44]  Well, yeah.
[00:03:45]  Okay.
[00:03:46]  Have you heard her testimony?
[00:03:48]  No, but she's crazy.
[00:03:50]  Really?
[00:03:50]  Why?
[00:03:50]  Well, because she, you know, why is she crazy?
[00:03:53]  Why?
[00:03:54]  Tell me.
[00:03:55]  Tell me why she's crazy.
[00:03:57]  Tell me why she's crazy.
[00:04:02]  Well, because, do you know what she's going to say?
[00:04:05]  No, you don't.
[00:04:06]  Do you know what she's going to say when she tells a story how she was sexually assaulted by Donald Trump?
[00:04:12]  Who's not in the courtroom?
[00:04:15]  And the jury's going to be instructed, by the way, unlike a criminal trial where the defendant is there, but if a defendant doesn't testify in a criminal trial, you get a jury instruction that says you cannot in any way weigh into this.
[00:04:27]  You cannot give this any weight.
[00:04:35]  Any...
[00:04:35]  whatever it is.
[00:04:37]  You have to just ignore it.
[00:04:39]  Don't worry about it.
[00:04:40]  In a civil trial, oh, it's the opposite.
[00:04:42]  The fact that he's not there means that he probably, you know, whatever.
[00:04:47]  So you can be given instructions basically that say, yeah, you can take that into consideration.
[00:04:52]  And she's going to take this stand.
[00:04:55]  And whether you call her middle-aged or whatever it is, if she comes across...
[00:04:59]  And I'm not in the courtroom.
[00:05:03]  I'm trying to read.
[00:05:04]  I'm standing outside the stadium, hearing the noise, hearing the crowds are trying to guess the score.
[00:05:08]  But if she sits there and she looks kind of pathetic, beaten, a woman that maybe somebody juries relate to, if she cries, if she says, I can never enjoy intimacy again.
[00:05:24]  If she says, I can never trust a man again, I cannot enjoy sexual relations, whatever, if it was painful, if I hurt, if it was humiliating.
[00:05:34]  What?
[00:05:34]  I didn't know that.
[00:05:35]  Oh, and she's going to go into detail.
[00:05:39]  Then you're going to hear, then you're going to hear two other women who said, yep, same thing happened to me.
[00:05:46]  And the jury's going to say, son of a...
[00:05:48]  Okay?
[00:05:50]  Then you're going to hear the Access Hollywood tape.
[00:05:52]  Then you're going to hear Trump in his own way, and it could have been a locker room.
[00:05:55]  I know that Trump supporters are like, oh, come on, it was a locker room.
[00:05:59]  That's the way he is.
[00:06:00]  It's a long time ago.
[00:06:02]  Okay, fine.
[00:06:04]  And then you're going to hear him say, she's not my type.
[00:06:08]  And this is the testimony which is the most interesting.
[00:06:10]  They showed him a picture of E. Jean Carroll, the woman who is not his type, standing next to him then.
[00:06:20]  And this goes to show you how long ago it was.
[00:06:22]  He said, or he thought, this was, I think, Marla Maples.
[00:06:28]  He thought she was his ex-wife.
[00:06:31]  A woman who apparently he is his type.
[00:06:36]  There goes that theory.
[00:06:38]  Not only that, who in their right mind ever says, if you accuse somebody of rape, you say, I don't rape anybody.
[00:06:46]  What are you talking about?
[00:06:48]  You don't say, it's not my type.
[00:06:50]  What does that mean, if that's your type?
[00:06:54]  What?
[00:06:55]  Now, it's a civil case.
[00:06:58]  No chance for jail.
[00:07:00]  Do you hear what I'm saying?
[00:07:01]  It's a civil case.
[00:07:03]  So if he's found liable, he's not going to go to jail.
[00:07:07]  And there's been so many.
[00:07:09]  It started as a defamation case, which later went to federal court, state court.
[00:07:14]  Forget that.
[00:07:17]  What does this do to the number one, to the presumed Republican nominee?
[00:07:28]  What does this do to women?
[00:07:30]  What does this do to moms and soccer moms?
[00:07:35]  What does this do to the female vote?
[00:07:37]  What does this do to these people?
[00:07:40]  Tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me.
[00:07:47]  Kellyanne, no, Kellyanne Mackin said on Fox that the suburban mom vote or female vote is going to be critical.
[00:07:58]  Joe Biden is very well going to be the 2024 winner.
[00:08:03]  I know it sounds, what?
[00:08:05]  Because these people love their grind.
[00:08:08]  They want to say, oh yeah, either that and Carmelita Harris.
[00:08:12]  She's going to be the president should he step down.
[00:08:17]  Some people will say, well, at least she's lucid.
[00:08:21]  Don't you see what's happening?
[00:08:22]  That's a different argument.
[00:08:24]  Does anybody care about this?
[00:08:25]  No.
[00:08:26]  Because the brain-dead Trump faction, they never get it right.
[00:08:32]  They never listen to me in 2020 when I'm saying, you're missing the point.
[00:08:37]  Especially when I told people in Georgia, don't mail in votes.
[00:08:42]  Remember that?
[00:08:44]  He was responsible, most probably, some say.
[00:08:47]  For losing Georgia.
[00:08:48]  The Republicans would have a Senate majority.
[00:08:52]  People forgot about that.
[00:08:54]  And he's been in this whole kick about, they stole the vote from me.
[00:08:57]  Move on!
[00:09:00]  Republicans don't seem to think about this.
[00:09:03]  They don't seem to care about the rules.
[00:09:08]  They don't seem to care about the rules.
[00:09:13]  And the rules are, we're moving on.
[00:09:16]  This is moot.
[00:09:19]  It is irrelevant.
[00:09:22]  It doesn't matter anymore.
[00:09:25]  Why are you talking about 2020?
[00:09:28]  Forget about it.
[00:09:30]  Let it go.
[00:09:32]  Let it go.
[00:09:36]  Is he listening?
[00:09:37]  No.
[00:09:39]  No.
[00:09:40]  This is the obstinacy.
[00:09:43]  There's six cases total.
[00:09:47]  Three of them, three of them are criminal in nature.
[00:09:53]  It's serious.
[00:09:54]  We got the New York case, which you laugh all you want about that.
[00:09:59]  That's a conviction.
[00:10:01]  That's a felony conviction, which very well, he's going to be convicted of that.
[00:10:05]  That's number one.
[00:10:06]  Number two, you've got the Georgia Stop the Steal.
[00:10:09]  Now, Fulton County, you've got Smith.
[00:10:13]  In the Mar-a-Lago obstruction of justice case, that's three right there.
[00:10:19]  Plus, you've got Letitia James, that's four.
[00:10:21]  Plus, you've got E. Jean Carroll, and one more.
[00:10:33]  New York, Fulton, January 6th, oh, well, I'm missing one.
[00:10:45]  Anyway, I think it's six total.
[00:10:47]  In any event, if I can't keep track of these things, it's five or six to be sure.
[00:10:54]  How does this play out?
[00:10:56]  It'll kill them!
[00:10:58]  Wait till you start hearing this!
[00:11:00]  Over it, over it, over it, over it, over it, over it, over it.
[00:11:05]  You know it.
[00:11:06]  You know how they're going to play this.
[00:11:08]  Where do you think all this negative stuff's coming out about Tucker?
[00:11:10]  From Murdoch!
[00:11:12]  We got the text messages.
[00:11:13]  Here, play this.
[00:11:15]  This is what he said.
[00:11:16]  We're going to show you that he...
[00:11:19]  You know this, right?
[00:11:21]  Just tell me you know this.
[00:11:23]  Tell me I'm not telling you anything you don't know.
[00:11:26]  Please.
[00:11:27]  Now, do me a favor if you could.
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