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March 19, 2023 - Lionel Nation
43:26
When Reality Conflicts With Fact

In a heartbeat.

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All right, my friend.
Now, we have a lot to talk about.
And I don't know if this is the way to do it or if this is the proper venue because I don't know if a lot of people can handle it.
I have found that when it comes to Donald Trump or anything even remotely connected with him, can't talk about it.
Cannot talk about it.
There is now evidence, indication, pardon me, indication, discussion of his being charged or indicted next Tuesday.
I just finished my personal Private, very thorough review of this.
And a lot of this stuff, I frankly don't want to talk about because, well, it's pretty brutal.
And there's one thing that we're finding out right now is that sometimes this is not the best venue.
That's the link for this.
I want to talk about the legal Strategies of what we're talking about.
I can't find anybody who wants to do it.
I can't find anybody.
The other day I was trying my best to discuss with people, and I did it again, privately and elsewhere.
I said, let's talk about if you have a laptop.
And when you hear a laptop, people say, what?
What was that?
A laptop.
Whose laptop?
Who?
Because that's what you're interested in.
Oh!
You mean...
Oh!
Laptop!
Yeah!
Then that means nobody wants to discuss the actual goings-on of this.
They only want to discuss...
Okay.
Let me ask you a question.
Right off the bat.
Let's assume, for the sake of argument, and this is what I've discussed elsewhere, Let's assume that you have your phone or your desktop or your laptop or your iPad or whatever it is and you take it to get fixed.
Repair.
Let's say there's some water damage or whatever it is.
And you forget to pick it up.
Or you don't pick it up.
And there is a clause that says anything left after 90 days or whatever it is will be deemed abandoned.
Okay.
Let's assume, arguendo, that the owner clearly has the right to this laptop and because you have absolutely abandoned it.
Here is the question which I've tried to ask people.
Does that mean that you own the information and the data in the laptop?
Does that mean that I can go through your laptop, say, oh, here are your pictures, here is your banking information, here is your information, business notes, your diary, maybe tweets that you wanted to send, and then I can take that.
And publish it, or whatever it is.
Because I own it.
Why?
Because you left your laptop there.
Or you say, no, no, no, no, no, no.
The data are completely different.
The data are different.
Now I've gone into, I've explained this very, very, I think, carefully.
I don't think people want to know because what they do is they say, well, it depends.
What do you mean it depends?
Well, it depends on who the subject is.
And that's why I realize we're wasting our time.
I apply the rules of law regarding the Constitution.
And that's the story.
And I just, how do I say this?
In a nice way.
I don't think people are mature enough to handle a lot of these issues.
I know that sounds terrible to say.
But it's true.
I don't think people really are there to understand it.
It's a very tough subject.
Because you're not able to sit there and say, okay, let me be honest.
Let me give somebody a, you know, let me look at the issue irrespective of who it is.
I don't know how to say this.
And what people are missing, let me try this again.
This is why I realize people don't understand this.
Somebody suggested that if you have a storage locker, the items that are left in the storage locker, whatever it is, that's yours.
You can sell the canoe or the golf clubs or whatever it is.
Those are the items that were stored.
If you think that pictures private information may be intimate pictures of you on your laptop if you can't understand the difference between data and the laptop this is why there's no use.
I am of no use.
I am unable to discuss it with people.
Because right off the bat, people will say, no, no, it's because of the people involved.
And there is no distinction between golf clubs left behind and me taking, let's say, pictures that you have and me promoting them or embarrassing you or publishing a book or going online.
Because I have the vessel.
It would be like me saying, I found your checkbook so I can write a checkbook.
There is no corollary.
In 2012, there was a case called, oh God, what was it?
It was the, not Jones, it was a Scalia case.
And it involved the DEA going onto someone's property and putting a GPS tracker on a truck.
And later on, there was a motion to suppress because they said you violated the rights of the individual.
And Scalia got the answer right but used the wrong reasoning.
He said, because you trespassed, you went onto the property to put that device on there.
That invalidated the search and therefore everything that was attendant thereto.
And he said, no, no, no, no, no.
It's not, no.
What about the data?
It's the data.
And he said, well, do you have a reasonable expectation of privacy?
No, no, no, no, no.
It's the data.
It's the...
Now, you could also go back to...
See, again, he didn't understand the data versus it wasn't the fact that...
That you went there and you broke in.
You attached this to this truck, but you then followed the truck.
And it was this information, the metadata, so to speak.
I didn't understand it.
I didn't grasp it.
This is the issue, which is fascinating to me.
Now, you could also suggest that, well, a lot of this stuff is on the cloud, and do you have a reasonable expectation of privacy?
And And when you look at some of these, in fact, if you look at the counterclaims, the state of Delaware has invasion of privacy and these unique torts that we don't have elsewhere.
But you see, nobody wants to answer and stop and say, that's very interesting.
No, that's different.
Well, who is it?
It doesn't matter who it is.
Who is it?
If I own a storage shed, and it's abandoned, and I go on and I start publishing, I found a lot of empty prescription pill bottles, and these people, apparently this person, was on medication for the following, whatever I say.
Well, that's...
Well, he abandoned it.
Yeah, but he abandoned it, so you have these empty pill bottles, but you're now taking the labels, and you're going online, and you're telling the world, based upon this information that was left behind, what they were on medication for, how many refills they've had, herpes medication.
Is this the same?
That is a fascinating issue that nobody wants to hear about.
Nobody.
And when it comes to possible indictments next week, forget it.
You can just forget it.
There is absolutely no one, no one, who wants to look at, maybe look at the charges, doesn't matter.
Maybe look at what are the burdens to prove, doesn't matter.
Is this a state or federal?
I don't care.
Do you?
And I recognize that fact.
And I blame the schools.
I blame the legal profession.
I blame a lot of people.
Because people still don't understand what that means.
Do you know how many people honestly still think that impeaching a president means to remove them?
Impeach them.
Impeach.
Why do you want to impeach?
You mean convict?
No, I want to indict him.
But indicting is just charging.
It doesn't mean, well it doesn't mean, just be done with this.
Wait a minute.
Indict for what?
For a felony or a misdemeanor?
I don't care.
No, it makes a big...
What are you charging with?
Isn't this a federal statute?
I don't know what it is.
It doesn't matter to me.
It matters to me.
Why did the feds pass on this?
I don't care.
That's where we are now.
That's where we are.
And that's why I spent some time in this wonderfully fascinating subject matter that has it so Oh my God, the strategy and the issues.
And then, how do you handle the media?
In my recent LionelMedia.com version, I talk about how you handle the media.
And you're the defense lawyer.
What do you do?
Do you go on TV?
Is that a good idea?
Is that a good idea?
If you're right, is that a good strategy?
Is that a good thing to do?
Would you want your lawyer to do that?
Go on this show.
See any downsides of that?
Do I want a lawyer on TV?
No.
Defense lawyer?
No.
Absolutely not.
Absolutely not.
Why do you think that is?
You're kidding me, right?
I don't know.
What about on Twitter?
No, no, no.
There's so many things.
There's so many, so many.
I see it so clearly.
What's happening right now?
It's like, oh no, don't fall.
Don't fall for this.
Oh God, be careful.
Be careful.
But nobody listens to me.
Because we don't have critical thinking in this country.
We, honest to God, don't.
We don't have it.
We react.
We react.
Everything is like a raw nerve.
That's it.
Everything that we do, we just react to it.
Negative.
Don't want that.
This is so interesting right now.
So monumentally, incredibly interesting, you cannot believe.
Now, I was thinking about you.
Did you know that?
I was thinking about you.
Something came up which I thought was most fascinating.
And I wanted to bring this up to you, bring this up to speed.
So, as it were, where is it?
Where is this great story?
Oh, it was terrific.
Not terrific, but it was fascinating.
Come on.
Oh!
No, that's not it.
Nope.
This is very good.
Stand by.
No, that's not it.
That's not it either.
It was the number of...
You've got to see this.
Threatened...
How about the ICC?
You want to talk about that?
No, I don't want to talk about that.
That's fascinating.
Absolutely.
Ah!
Here we go.
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This is from The American College of Cardiology.
And why is that so important?
Well, it's kind of important because of this thing called sleep.
And we, I think in this country, still consider sleep to be kind of a lazy thing.
Like, we don't want to be lazy.
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How about that?
How about that?
Think about that.
Sleep.
So incredible.
So perfect.
That's all.
That's all I wanted to say.
I thought of you when I saw this.
Now.
I also, on my private channel, talk about the International Criminal Court, which is fascinating.
Fascinating.
And it's something that is interesting.
Do you know what that is?
Do you know the levels, the jurisdiction?
How does one opt into it?
Again, I hear people on the television talk about this without even explaining.
Explain what this means.
I don't know.
It's just, you know, whatever.
But, if it's somebody we don't like, we're all for it.
If it's somebody we do like, we...
Whatever.
I realize that what I'm looking for doesn't exist in the real world.
I realize it.
I realize that I'm looking for these rational...
People who think like I do.
And I think I'm very rational.
I really do.
Overreacting is...
What's the point?
Because this is interesting.
I read something.
There's a good friend of mine.
I like him a lot.
I like him a lot.
And he's very, very good.
Very, very, very good.
And I'm reading some of the tweets he's doing and I'm thinking, you know, this is very interesting.
And he's using the word Marxist.
Almost as though kind of as just a pejorative.
Like it's sort of, you know, idiot or corrupt or something.
It's Marxist.
I'm thinking, there's no evidence of any Marxism here.
What are you talking about?
There's no economic class.
But in our scrums, this has become this thing that people say.
They just, well, it's what we call it.
Well, it's not...
True, necessarily.
That's not good.
I wish we could, and I wrote something, and nobody cares to think about this.
And I wrote this, and I want to read this to you.
If you want to make and have an appreciable impact on any worthwhile issue, focus your attention on the subject matter involved and lay off the personal attacks.
I know this may be difficult for you, I understand.
You're in this wildfire riot scrum called social media, and it's fun to just be hostile and mean and mocking.
I know you love ad hominems.
I know you love to accuse everyone of being mentally ill and focus on what you believe to be the obvious, but what our country and world need more than anything now is cogent and rational argumentation.
I don't know where it is.
Do you want to just make fun of people?
Just make fun of people.
Well, just make fun of people.
How many times do you want to hear someone make fun of the president?
How many times?
Is there a number?
Oh, sometimes, you know, okay, fine.
Everybody's entitled to.
That's your First Amendment right.
People have been making fun of politicians since Thomas Nast and Will Rogers and you name it.
I understand that.
But that's not the sole basis for this.
I was listening to, and I love American history, who is the worst president?
Now watch this.
Let me just ask a question.
Without a doubt, it depends upon, who is the worst president ever?
Let me ask you a very simple question.
Who is the worst president?
And I love talking about it.
Because the question you should be asking is, well, what do you mean worse, or what criteria is...
I know.
Who is the worst president?
Not just what do historians say, but who is the worst?
And it's a fascinating question, because the best you can...
I love to watch debates on YouTube, too.
Don't ask me why, about who is the best basketball player?
Who is the GOAT?
Is it Will Chamberlain?
Is it Michael Jordan?
Is it LeBron James?
Is it Larry Bird?
And they go back and forth.
But they never talk about who is the worst player.
Who was the worst?
Andrew Johnson.
Very interesting.
Franklin Pierce.
Franklin Pierce was so tragic.
He had three kids.
Two of them died.
And then on his way to the White House?
He was in a train and his remaining son, it was an accident, son dies, and Franklin Pierce has to show up with his dead son in his hands and the wife wears, kind of like Queen Victoria, wears mourning clothes, writing letters at the White House to her son?
Oh my God!
This guy was an alcoholic, it was terrible.
John Tyler?
Oh, John Tyler, William Henry Harrison.
Remember William Henry Harrison?
They didn't even know whether Tyler should be the president.
The 22nd Amendment, they didn't know.
Succession.
But James Buchanan, the first bachelor president.
James Buchanan, absolutely.
The Civil War, I don't want any problem with that.
Hands down.
Hands down.
But people go, no, that's too much reading.
No, I don't want that one.
That's no fun today.
And there are people who believe that if something happened before them, they don't, it doesn't, there's no, I don't know.
Right now, think about this.
Kids who are, you know, in college, 18 years old, what do they know about this?
I mean, seriously, what do their world experience?
Well, you go to college to learn about certain things.
And what you really should go to learn about is this thing called critical thinking.
And that's gone.
That is gone.
It doesn't exist.
And that's the sad part.
You're missing so much great stuff here.
I can't tell you.
There's no interest in breaking down issues, philosophy and what if and doing the Socratic method.
There's no joy.
Warren Harding, pretty bad, may have been poisoned by his wife.
What's her name?
Florence or something?
Andrew Jackson.
I don't know about Andrew Jackson.
Andrew Jackson, I don't know.
That's a hard one.
Because there's...
I mean, duels, and when they accuse he of not being married to his wife, Rachel.
I mean, my God, it was wild!
Grover Cleveland, and...
But today...
No.
There's no use to anything.
Today is, which people do you not like?
And it simply comes down to, which side are you on?
I'm on this side, so I hate that guy.
And I'm on that side, so I hate this guy.
And that's where we are.
And we look at the world only as it benefits our worldview.
What is the standard to indict somebody?
Probable cause.
What's the best definition of probable cause?
He probably did it.
Think about that one.
Think about that one.
By the by, I hope you have taken the opportunity of also Subscribing to my Lionel Legal channel, too.
And I would love to go and take this on the road.
I'd love to have a people's law school where we could bring people in.
We taught kids one time how to try a case.
They were so good.
I had this high school class.
I used to go and coach them.
I mean, they were the best!
And I think if people understood it, it would make so much more sense, the idea of what indictments and the like mean.
This buffer between the sovereign and the people, this idea of having a grand jury versus a petty jury and the like.
Does that make sense to you?
Does that make sense?
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Now, I'm going to talk about something which I also realize that I'm wasting my time.
But I mentioned it anyway.
Do you remember when Richard Nixon was pardoned by Gerald Ford?
That was one of the most...
At the time, people said that's pretty much why he lost to Jimmy Carter.
There was an antipathy towards Nixon.
To this day, people are still trying to figure out Nixon and why was he like that.
And somebody said then, they said during the course of this, they said, we don't, this was the theory, you don't have a former president in the dock.
We don't do that.
And that's what they said then.
They said, oh, okay.
Others disagreed necessarily, no one's above the law, but that was the idea, that the calamity, that the problems, this was...
This was 1975.
This was, you know, that kind of thinking or whatever it was, whatever the time frame was.
And at the time, I remember later on, I said, this makes complete and total sense.
What is the protocol?
What is the...
Is it the office or the person?
Or do you figure nobody is above the law?
Believe me, I would love to see a debate between Rational people.
Nobody.
No YouTuber.
None of the usual suspects.
No, no, no.
But a sedate and a sober, kind of an intelligent, without mentioning parties, but just thinking about what do you do with someone who has...
Here's a question people forget to ask.
Sometimes you do ask.
Can a president pardon himself?
Can a president pardon himself?
Once he leaves, does he sign the thing and he's got, I've got this pardon here for myself, for anything I did up to and before January 20th, whatever year you leave office.
It's only for federal offenses, not for state, and there you go.
And it's interesting.
And if people immediately say, well, no, yes.
They say, no.
What are the issues?
Nobody ever does that.
See?
People say, no.
Somebody answered the question.
No.
They just answered the question.
No.
First question I want to know is, well, what are the rules?
Has it ever been tried before?
What are the implications?
Has anybody ever...
Has the...
Has the Office of Legal Counsel ever written on this?
Has it ever...
What would you do?
Does he announce it?
Because it would be for a prospective.
It would be, I don't have anything now, but after I leave, I'm going to put this in my safe, and I'm going to sign this.
Do you file the pardon ahead of time?
As in case you need this, okay.
Is this for a prospective?
That's what they did.
They pardoned Nixon for prospective.
In fact, he hadn't been charged with anything.
He hadn't been charged with anything.
But they said, but in the event you are.
I mean, anything.
Federal.
Anything.
Anything.
What if it was murder?
They didn't limit what it was.
It was kind of generic.
What if?
What if?
I mean, these are questions that we always have to ask.
Which are the most important?
There's commutation of sentence.
A lot of things.
And this is what I want you to know.
I want you to think about this.
I want you to think.
I want you to talk with your friends.
I want you to talk about policy.
What would be the best?
Nobody ever does that.
Nobody ever even remotely does that.
Nobody cares about that.
The only one to talk about is the specific answer and if the answer, if, if, if it somehow Promotes and encourages their particular political ideology, if that makes any sense.
Okay?
Does that make sense to you?
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There's something, my friends, that we talked about yesterday, and Mrs. L said it, and it was about tradition.
The tradition, the office, when something is special, when something is different.
We have, in many jurisdictions, statutes that elevate the crime if you were to deface A tomb, a tombstone, a grave.
Different than anything else.
It's the same thing.
Here's some spray paint.
This is the side of a building.
This is a grave.
Society says no, no, no.
Tradition and whatever, we hold that to a different standard.
What is the president?
When the president's...
The idea of this was the president of the United States.
This guy was in the same stature, same status I should say, with everybody from Lincoln, Washington, FDR, Franklin Pierce, Millard Fillmore, name it.
This guy.
What does that mean?
How do you or do you ever separate reverence for the office from the individual, from the man or the woman itself?
During the course, I was doing talk radio at the time, and I was adamantly against the notion of impeaching Bill Clinton for whatever it is.
I said, this is not the high crime of misdemeanors that would affect the presidency or something that only a president could do.
Now, what Nixon was doing was he was sickening the FBI, the CIA, the IRS, and he had all kinds of...
I mean, he did stuff.
By the way, some of his, if you can get a hold of, I've heard of Dalek, Robert Dalek, the historian, read some of the funniest.
He was quite salty regarding his language.
And what he said about, what he would do to Henry Kissinger was just, I mean, just brutal.
It's funny, but it's filthy.
Okay, this was Richard Nixon.
And they...
I don't know if you remember this.
It was a contempt that you could not even believe.
It was so palpable and tenable and actual and real.
And people lost their minds.
And many, many people at the time said, we do not.
We're not going to arrest a former president.
We're not going to have a president in the dock.
That's what was said.
And many people understood.
Many people didn't.
And today, I'm afraid most people would say, I don't even know what you're talking about.
Because they want to always arrest.
There's a meme going around.
You might have seen this.
There's a meme.
And in this meme, it's a playing card.
It says, what's the following?
Do you want in prison?
Prison for what?
They just threw out names.
I want them in prison.
Why do you want people in prison?
Somebody the other day asked the question, this is so interesting, whether they should cancel The View.
I'm saying, well, why do you want to cancel The View?
I don't like it.
Well, don't watch The View.
The same people who talked about cancel culture wanted to cancel The View.
I don't watch The View.
I don't watch a lot of stuff.
I don't watch, really, any TV at all.
But that doesn't make any difference.
How do people lose sight of the fact that what they are saying should be contrary To their reality, so to speak, and not their...
Just because you don't like them.
Just because you don't.
You've got to ask yourself, is this fair?
Is this...
No.
No, no, no, no, no.
It's the most difficult thing in the world because today we are told, especially through social media, that you must shape everything.
In terms of what your particular worldview is.
Don't think of how this affects along the way.
Just act accordingly.
Be partisan all you want.
It's incredible to me.
Incredible.
Now, I was watching something the other day.
Have you ever done any YouTube?
I just love these great documentaries on EMP, electromagnetic pulses, and the great coronal solar flare, and the Carrington event, where everything in the 19th century, where all the telegraphs were gone.
It's a fascinating story.
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I want to talk to you about something, just very briefly, which I don't think you have any interest in, but I'm fascinated in.
And that is how Charles handles his fractious family during and before his coronation.
How does he act like the king, remain a father, deal with the interfamilial squabblings, but yet deal with his, quote, subjects?
To maintain the monarchy that his mother, I think, brought a lot of people, loved her.
You will not hear this.
You will hear it in terms of whether you like Meghan, whether you like this one, whether Harry.
That's the subatomic level.
But the bigger picture is what about the monarchy itself?
And I'm not going to even begin to discuss that with you because, frankly, you don't care.
And I don't blame you.
I know you're busy.
But it's a fascinating subject.
Again, it goes to this.
What's more important to you?
The individual people involved or the big picture?
Is it about justice?
Is it about the system?
Or is it about individual reactions, individual results?
That's what's critical.
Exceedingly critical.
All right, now, my friends, I want you to notice a couple of things.
First, remember, I want you to go right here, right here, and sign up right now for the Lionel Legal brand new It's a Doozy YouTube channel for your thoughts, considerations, and the like.
And speaking of brilliance, incredible, imane brilliance, I want you to go to Mrs. L. Look at this.
Look at her.
Oh, she has such...
Hers is terrific.
Working.
She works harder than anything you can imagine.
All day yesterday and today and the weekend and newsletters and so much.
And digital safety is the issue.
So please follow her right there accordingly.
Also, follow Mrs. L on Twitter because she's got stuff that Nobody has.
Nobody.
When it comes to children, digital safety, and protecting our most vulnerable and our most precious.
And that's a phrase that sounds kind of corny, but it's absolutely true.
Absolutely true.
Alright, my friends, and while you're at it, here is my Twitter.
Please, if you're at home listening to this on a device, please hit that home section so you can read.
All of the links that we've provided, both in the description and now.
Alright, my friends.
Thank you.
Remember, use your head.
Critically think.
And if you want to get a reaction, that's fine.
But nobody will pay attention to you.
Then you sound like everybody else.
If you're really smart, you'll think of the big picture.
And I know you're really smart, because that's why you're here.
Alright friends, have a great and glorious day.
See you tomorrow.
Same bad time, same bad channel.
9 a.m. Eastern Time.
Until then, remember, the monkey's dead.
The show's over.
See ya.
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