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Feb. 23, 2023 - Lionel Nation
35:18
Cameras in Courtrooms

A horrific idea..

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Good day, my friends.
Today is going to be a little shorter than usual.
We have a lot of things to do.
Mrs. Eldon and I are extremely busy this morning, and she in particular has...
Many, many commitments as of...
Warriors work, and this as well, so wanted to let you know this might be a tad truncated.
Simple question.
What do you think about cameras in the courtroom?
I happened to watch a little bit of this Murdoch case.
Alex, is it Murdoch?
I kind of have an understanding a little bit about what the case is about.
And I'm watching this and I, by virtue of this, my age and coming into the business, I was here when Court TV started.
I was here during the OJ trial.
I was here during all of these iterations.
And I love the way people pretend that they, well, Well, I think it's interesting that they like trials.
I'm not sure what they're watching.
Just like people who like true crime.
I just did a number of brand new videos on my private channel.
And I address a number of things.
I address the Supreme Court, who is handling a particular case right now involving Section 230.
I involve myself in a lot of other litigation that is going on involving various news media and the like.
I go into greater detail.
The use of discovery, explaining how that works.
And what I think you will learn, I hope, when you watch me or when you follow me, is I don't care if my version of the truth in any way It comports with your worldview or if it makes you happy.
I may say something that you may say, wait a minute.
It may be against a particular idea that you think.
Maybe it's about politicians you might like or dislike.
I call it the way it is.
I don't have a particular party.
I'm a political atheist.
I don't care.
I tell you the way it is.
That's the way it is.
I'm a radiologist.
I hold up the x-ray and go, yep, it's broken.
Yep.
Cancer?
Yep.
Pregnant?
Whatever.
That's it.
That's all I can tell you.
And if you like it, great.
If you don't like it, well, what are you going to do?
This Murdoch case, I hope I'm pronouncing it correctly.
I just happened to catch a million, just a moment of it, rather.
And the first thing I'm thinking of is, what are these people doing?
What are these people doing?
What is this questioning?
What is this direct?
This better not be cross.
I guess, is it cross-examination?
It must be cross-examination because I couldn't tell.
And that's not a good sign.
They had, I believe it was a son, it was a red-haired young son, must have been.
I don't think it was a co-defendant, so it's the son testifying against the father, and I couldn't tell if this was cross-examined, direct or cross.
I don't understand why they're doing it.
I don't understand.
Would you like me to explain some things to you?
Carol says it correctly.
Cameras make people act unnatural.
Carol, that's true, but juries make people act unnatural or unnaturally and people who are in the jury box.
Make people act unnaturally and the like.
And that's something to be said as well.
So, just being in a courtroom, being there, having people walk by, if it's a popular case in the courthouse, I cannot tell you how I have tried cases before.
There was nobody in there.
It was the jury, the clerk, the provator, a couple of bailiffs, and that's it.
And then somebody might walk in, sit down, and all of a sudden, the other side is, all of a sudden, got a little louder.
Playing to the, ooh, I'm being watched.
That's a natural thing.
But what's happening is that you get people who, I think, sometimes push you too far, and there's no way for you to, in any way, guarantee that they don't.
Let me give you this rule, and I want you to understand something.
And imagine I'm second chairing you, okay?
I'm sitting with you.
And I'm asking you a very simple question.
We're going to go after this Murdoch fellow, okay?
Let's say with the prosecutor, or defending him.
I always like the defense, because the defense is harder.
And it's harder to make the case.
First, I'll make it very, very simple.
Ready for this?
Make it very, very simple.
If you're defending him, I'm going to tell Murdoch, you're going to wear a tie, you're going to be forever in your world of...
How do I say this?
You're going to be...
Always remember people are watching you.
You're going to watch how you cry.
You're going to watch how you smile.
You're going to watch what you read.
You're how do you...
How does your countenance, how does it work?
How does it...
What are you looking at?
Imagine you are an innocent person watching your trial.
How would you look?
How?
What you should not do?
Laugh.
Kid around.
Make faces.
Make faces.
Not a good thing.
Um, well...
Thank you.
Check one, two.
There we go.
There we go.
We okay?
Somebody write, hey, can we lip read?
Can we lip read?
Sound!
Sound!
Can you see?
Now we're okay.
Now we're five.
You okay?
We okay now?
We all set?
We all set now?
We got that?
Talk slower.
I'm lip reading.
I made a joke about lip reading.
Can I read your lips?
That's pretty good.
That's pretty good.
Okay, we all set?
Okay.
Now, let me see if I can catch up and try to guess where we were before the cacophony of hilarity began.
Murdoch?
We're going to ask, we're going to involve ourselves in the shortest cross-examination ever.
Why are you asking questions?
Because I couldn't tell.
I wasn't watching.
Please tell me, if we're going to be talking to, let's say, your son or somebody who is a police officer, what do you think we're going to get out of this person?
What is it?
What is it?
What?
What are we going to get from the detective?
Unless there's something glaring, unless we can impeach him, unless you can say he did something wrong.
But if he's just, if he showed up, took some pictures, stipulate, stipulate, stipulate, get people out of the, get them off the case.
Get them off the stand.
Get them out!
They're not helping us.
They're the other side's witness.
Why do I want to have all these witnesses and make it look like, oh my god, look at all these people.
Oh, he's a pretty interesting character.
Has a badge.
Well, if he thinks he did it, well, I don't know.
No!
Get rid of him!
Unless you have an OJ case.
What did you do with the blood sample?
What did you do with this?
Did you contaminate the scene?
That'd be a good one.
Short of that, get him off the stand.
What do you think you're going to do?
By interrogating or by questioning family members.
What?
Who saw other family members killed?
Get them off!
Don't talk to them.
They're not helping you.
This is the other side's witness.
What are you going to do?
And this rehash?
I saw this the other day.
I just watched it very short.
So you came in and you talked to them.
Yeah, what time was it?
About 2 o 'clock?
3 o 'clock?
Yeah.
What are we doing with this?
Where are we going with this?
Even on your direct, what are you doing?
What's the story?
What's the narrative?
Remember, direct examination is who, what, when, where, why.
This is your witness.
You can't ask leading questions.
Leading questions are questions that present and propose and suggest an answer.
Isn't it true you got there late?
Isn't it true you never collected the blood sample?
Isn't it a fact that you did not understand?
Isn't it a fact that you...
That's something.
And if you don't have anything to say, don't ask a question.
Get them off.
What are you doing?
Sometimes it's just a very, very, very simple thing to do.
What happened then?
What did you do?
State your name for the record.
Did you show up?
What did you find?
Where is he?
Did you see the defendant in the courtroom today?
Would you point him out, please?
Let the record reflect.
The defendant's been identified.
Thank you very much.
Get out!
Why?
What's my moment?
What's my moment?
My moment is closing.
Closing.
Closing argument.
That's what I want.
Let me tell you what it means.
Not these people.
If they stay on the stand, they may ruin my story.
They may ruin my story.
It's the most important thing.
I'm telling you right now, it is critical.
This is the jury.
What are you trying to do?
What is the reason for this?
Every question must be a reason.
Don't just get him up there just to kind of sit there and talk.
Does he look at the jury?
He can say something stupid, mistrial worthy.
He's a necessary evil.
Get him off, whoever it is.
Why is he up there?
You want closing.
Closing argument.
What's your defense, ultimately?
One of two things.
Very simple.
The first one is, he didn't do it.
You've got an alibi.
You've got something.
They botched the evidence.
Something affirmative.
Something where you're going to say, he's not guilty because they didn't prove this.
They didn't prove this because they didn't have the evidence.
Versus, they didn't meet their burden.
Sorry.
And you're not going to take the stand.
Did he prove beyond and to the exclusion of every reasonable doubt?
No.
Did he absolutely prove the intent to kill?
No.
You make it sound like he didn't prove anything.
Did they prove the intent?
Is there any reasonable doubt, a doubt you can attach reason to?
Yes!
Oh, you heard all kinds of anger.
You heard all kinds of this.
But did you hear, is there...
Anything.
Is there a reasonable doubt?
Yes.
One, two, three, four, five, and you list the doubts.
Not, he didn't do it.
But they didn't prove the case.
Let me say it again.
He didn't do it is one thing.
They didn't prove it is another.
Either one will do.
Either one will do.
That's it.
I always used to tell people during voir dire, during jury selection, what did you have for breakfast this morning?
Yeah.
Can you prove it?
You might be able to.
Did you eat at a restaurant?
Did you get a bill?
You probably ate by yourself.
Can you prove it?
I don't know if you can prove it or not.
Can you prove it?
Can you prove it?
I don't know if I can prove it or not.
I've got to take your word for it a lot of times.
I've just got to listen to what you're saying.
I've got to ask myself, does this make sense?
Now, if you had to prove That you had a bacon and cream cheese and coffee.
You had to prove it.
I could sit back and say, you know what?
You might believe him.
You might say, you know, this guy's a pretty nice guy.
But he didn't prove it.
He probably did.
But he didn't prove it.
And you know what?
If you think this guy probably did it, that's not it.
If you say, you know, but why would he be here without doing something?
That ain't it.
Well, you know, they arrested him.
Well, that ain't it.
He looks guilty.
That ain't it.
Well, there's other people.
His family thinks so.
That ain't it.
See, you're going outside of the courtroom.
You've got to ask yourself this question right now.
Did they prove this?
Where did he prove it?
How about this?
Did he prove it?
Yeah, I walked in and there he is.
He's standing over the body with a knife.
Yeah, that's it.
Or he told me.
He admitted it.
He confessed it.
That might be it.
That's a good one.
But anything other than that?
No.
Uh-uh.
Is there DNA?
Is there this?
And let me also tell you something, ladies and gentlemen of the jury.
Do you know what is going to kill people in other trials that are going to be fascinating?
Text messages.
Text messages.
Oh my God!
Oh my God!
We'll talk about that when that's coming up.
When you're trying to prove malice and all kinds of stuff, I talk about that in great, great detail.
Bye!
Text messages.
What are you doing?
I've never seen anything like this.
Who knew?
And by the way, you, when you are in court, you turn over everything.
Everything.
Everything.
You know Seymour Hersh?
I'm sure you've heard of him lately.
Do you know he writes things down?
He doesn't put anything on a computer so they can't steal the computer?
He's got them on a notepad.
So people can't steal it.
He might have a copy or something, but nobody can go in and change things.
People are using fax machines more and more today.
Did you know that?
People are using fax machines.
People are using AOL accounts.
They're going back to just the basics.
They're using just fax machines to send copies.
Nothing.
You're seeing what's happening right now.
I will never understand why people who are charged with crimes talk to the police.
I will never understand this.
As long as I live.
Lawyers.
Lawyers.
I don't care what you have to say.
I don't care what you do.
I don't care who you want.
Oh, I'm going to talk to them.
I'm going to clear this thing up.
Really?
Really?
You think you're going to clear it up?
You think they're going to let you go?
You think they're keeping you there because, what, you haven't cleared it up?
You think they're sitting and saying, boy, I'd sure love to let this guy go.
If they wanted to let you go, you'd be gone.
They want to keep you.
That's why they want to talk to you.
They're not going to, well, I didn't know that.
It's the weirdest thing.
I don't understand.
Lawyers do it, too.
They can't do it.
They think it's like...
Here's a thing called the Fifth Amendment right.
It's a right!
It's a right!
Do you ever have anybody taking blame for taking their First Amendment right?
You have the right!
And it gets real murky sometimes.
It gets real murky.
Especially when it comes to things like...
And believe me, I talk about this.
When it comes to things like Miranda warnings.
See, Miranda's one of those things that are really funny.
Miranda...
Miranda warnings are these wonderful things that people learn from TV.
And they believe, they have believed...
By the way, this is my...
I'm going to give you my...
This is very important.
This is my private channel because I go into much...
Well, put it this way.
Brutal.
Because there's so many cases that are coming up and I'm saying, oh my God.
And you know what?
I'm usually right.
And when I say that, it's not because I have any kind of a...
I just see things.
Let me give you a couple of examples.
The Supreme Court Section 230 case.
That's going to be a punt because that's going to have to go back for legislation.
That's just simple.
That's a simple case.
It really is.
That's number one.
I'm telling you, the most fascinating case of them all, and it's going to be watched like you can't believe, is the Fox Dominion case.
I go into great detail with that one, and that's what I mentioned about the use of text messages.
This is so, it's malice, actual malice, oh my god, it's like we've never seen anything like this.
This is going to be one for the ages.
And I explain in great detail why that is.
There's a lot of cases that are interesting.
I remember one time when the Casey Anthony case came out.
Casey Anthony.
And I said, I was on a local TV show, on the very first day, I said, she's going to be acquitted.
People went crazy.
They went berserk.
I said, oh, I don't.
Oh, I don't.
Do I think she did it?
That doesn't matter what I think, but the evidence, I mean, who else could do it, sort of, and we don't have anything, but that's not what I'm saying.
There's no evidence of, you can't even prove homicide in this thing.
Because you found a skeleton.
You didn't even find it.
We don't even know the cause of death.
We have no idea.
There was a way to do it, but they didn't do it.
There is a way of looking at a skull, for example, where you can look and see if these diatoms are ingested, if there was any kind of drowning.
But the point is, there was nothing there.
You can't even prove homicide.
And in murder, homicide is it?
If you can't prove homicide, that's it.
It's an acquittal.
End of discussion.
If I was supposed to use Baez, a lawyer, I would have just said, next witness, next witness.
Let's just go straight to judgment of acquittal time.
That's it.
And if it gets to the jury, I can do it in five minutes.
Explain it.
Sorry.
People went crazy.
They thought I was saying that I liked her or I wanted this.
I said, no, you can't prove it.
You can't prove it.
Remember the Zimmerman case?
Predicted that one too immediately.
Why?
Because, oh, there was big reasonable doubt there.
Reasonable doubt.
Also using Florida standard ground law and also other.
And I knew the facts of the case.
You got to know the facts of the case.
If you don't know the facts, you're wasting your time.
People went berserk.
They went berserk.
I don't know.
O.J. Simpson was the greatest one ever.
Greatest case ever.
Oh my God.
Reasonable doubt.
Like you can't believe.
Like you can't believe.
Civil case.
Different story.
People forget the civil case.
And you know what's interesting about this?
The real things that people need to explain on TV, they don't.
Because it simplifies it.
And there's something that people don't like to do about simplifying facts.
They don't like to do it.
They like to make it complicated and murky.
They want to make it sound like it's a real complicated case.
But it's not.
Some things are very, very simple.
And in the real world, We are not really trained with the notion of trying to say that even if you think somebody did something, if the state or the federal government cannot prove it, it's not guilty.
Even though you know, well, who else could it have been?
Now you're playing detective.
That's a different story.
Imagine you are a A doctor.
And you've been a doctor for 50 years.
And this guy walks in.
And he's limping.
And you see what appears to be almost like a shattered bone.
It looks like it's almost protruding.
The guy's screaming in pain.
You go, the guy broke his leg.
What?
I'm a doctor.
I've seen this a million times.
Well, here's the x-ray.
Oh my God.
It's not broken.
But I...
What does this say?
Well, this show's not broken.
Thank you very much.
Yeah, but wait.
Excuse me.
Don't you want to hear what I think?
No.
Because, see, if I was a parent in this case, see, I would have acted like this.
Don't you think it's weird that she was out in the night instead of looking for her daughter?
Sorry.
That doesn't matter.
You're acting as a detective now.
I'm asking you one thing.
Did he prove it?
The next song we're going to play on the radio is Roll Over Beethoven.
Oh, put the wrong song on.
Did he play Roll Over Beethoven?
Well, he said he was going to.
Did he play it?
Well, he was going to cue it up.
Did he play it?
No, he didn't.
That's it.
Yeah, but he was going to.
Doesn't matter.
This is what drives people nuts.
And for some reason they think this is a terrible way to do a system.
This is the best way to do this system.
This is the best way.
A very simple thing.
And when these people start talking, talking, talking, and when on cross-examination, when the guy wants to go on TV, He's on TV.
He told all his friends back home, hey, I'm on TV.
I'm live.
This is the one that gets me.
You're doing cross.
You're a defense lawyer.
You're talking to a police officer.
So you walked in, huh?
And you say that my client was laughing at the time?
Yes.
And you say that he wasn't, he didn't particularly sound or act sad that his parents were.
Missing.
Is that what you're saying?
Yes.
Why are you repeating this?
I've seen it a million times.
I've seen it a million times.
We used to have these things when we were prosecutors.
These predicate questions, they were the worst.
State your name.
Where are you?
This is when you're like brand new.
State your name.
Where are you employed?
I don't know if you've been employed.
What is your duty?
Were you on duty on February the 22nd?
Did you have the occasion to meet the defendant?
What happened?
And they ask these, they read these questions.
And the person will read the question.
State your name for the record.
Maybe sometimes on Tuesday.
And where are you employed?
Jerry Lafferty.
And the guy goes to the next question.
He's not listening.
Do you know how many people on TV never listen to the question?
Do you know how many people?
When they interview, they never listen to a question.
There's a couple of podcasters, I'm not going to mention their name, who are the worst.
They never listen.
And one TV person never listens.
There's one TV, very famous host, who goes through a litany.
We're talking today to whoever.
I don't know who you want to talk to.
Let's say it's whatever.
I don't know who.
Kevin McCarthy.
We're talking to Kevin McCarthy.
Mr. McCarthy, Joe Biden did this.
Buttigieg did this.
Did this.
Carmine Harris did this.
And then they came in, they said they were going to pass it, but they didn't do it.
But then the next thing you know, they came in.
And then, after telling the American people that they were going to do it, they didn't do that.
And then they turned around and did something else.
And the guy's going on and on and on and on.
And on...
Why are you in...
Why don't you just talk by yourself?
Why did you invite this man?
Why?
You're not letting anybody talk.
You're talking.
Let the man talk.
This is the thing I don't understand.
This is the thing which I do not understand.
This is...
Why don't people listen?
Don't you want to hear what they say?
All you have to do when you have a guest is listen.
And when you're on TV, in particular you have an IFB, you have one of those little things in your ears and you're not listening.
And they're talking to you.
Alright, wrap it up.
Next question.
And is somebody maybe telling you?
Could or not.
Have a floor director give you five seconds or three, whatever they sign.
Why'd you do that?
Let them talk.
Listen.
But you never brought that up on the floor of the Senate.
Why didn't you bring it up?
You say that now.
Wait a minute.
What did you just say?
That's the kind of stuff I want to hear.
You're listening.
Wait a minute.
Say that again.
I never heard that before.
He didn't say that.
Listen.
They're telling you.
Do you know that in acting classes, in acting, one of the most difficult things to teach an actor is listening.
Especially when you're doing, you know, Broadway, eight shows a week, and there's one scene where you've got to listen.
Day three, scene two, the kitchen table scene, mm-hmm, I've heard this, and you're trying to act like you're listening.
Well, what's even harder than acting like you're listening is listening, hearing.
Did you hear what he said?
Are you paying attention to what it is?
Get him off.
Why are you doing this?
He's not answering the question.
You're not.
It's so simple.
You don't have to be in law school for this stuff.
And by the way, we never got into depositions, which are deadly.
Deadly.
Because it's very informal.
You're just sitting there at a desk.
There's no judge.
You're just talking.
Legal matters are beautiful.
Legal matters are wonderful.
Appellate is one thing.
When you're in a trial and you're going to say, okay, now I've got to prove stuff.
Oh, dear God.
You may have a victim who is just unlikable or weird or whatever.
And you're going to say, how do I get past this?
How do I get past this?
How do I get past the...
Sometimes you can bring up a guy with a bad record.
How do you...
You're suing, let's say, a police department because they beat up somebody who was being arrested for an armed robbery.
And he was involved in the armed robbery, but the police, let's say, were excessive.
How do you do that?
How do you do that?
How do you...
This.
How do you frame it?
The best way...
It's get them off the stand.
Your final, your moment of glory is closing.
That's when you tell them.
And let me tell you what that meant.
And let me tell you what Officer Flaherty did.
What he did wrong.
Let me tell you what happened.
Let's go back.
Let's look at the police report.
Now I get to talk to you.
He's off.
You're not bringing him up anymore.
I don't have to worry about him getting up there and saying something stupid or losing his temper or whatever.
Now we can at least, we got all the evidence in.
Thank God.
Unscathed.
And now we can tell the jury what it means.
That's the issue.
My friends, as I told you before, today's going to be a tad truncated.
This is Ellen and I are extremely busy.
We have Lynn's Warriors busy to attend, business to attend to, and I have some other matters as well.
Let me thank you as usual.
Let me please say that right now, if you go to the description portion of this, we have our Wonderful sponsors.
MyPatriotSupply or PrepareWithLionel.com MyPillow.com promo code Lionel EMP Shield and Z-Stack.
So wonderful people.
I provide you.
I enlist you.
I point to you.
I direct you to read for yourself.
The wonderful information.
Go to the websites.
Please, peruse.
Let them describe to you the wonderful FAQs and the like.
Okay?
Alright.
My friends, you have a wonderful time.
Do not ever, ever, ever change.
Thank you so much for this.
See you tomorrow.
Same bad time, same bad channel.
We have a busy day ahead right now.
And don't forget, as we always conclude, please, by the way, if you like what I was talking about, the legal stuff, go to my private channel.
In any event, have a great and glorious day.
Until tomorrow, same bad time, same bad channel, 9 a.m. Eastern Time.
Remember, the monkey's dead.
The show's over.
Sue ya.
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