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Sept. 21, 2022 - Lionel Nation

35:12

Preparing for the Most Egregious Censorship Imaginable

Daniel Satchkov has worked for over 20 years in financial mathematics winning a number of awards for his scientific work. As a mathematician and an inventor, he saw the danger in the Big Tech monopoly long before many others. Daniel started the design of a censorship resistant platform in 2015 and gathered a team of engineers to build it starting in 2017. Brace yourself.

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	I am honored and so pleased to be speaking with Daniel Sachkov from from and for and regarding something that is so incredibly fascinating.
	And I'm not saying this just because People say that.
	This is truly shape-shifting.
	This is singular.
	It's called Bastion.
	B-A-S-T-Y-O-N.
	And Daniel, welcome.
	And first, what is Bastion?
	Thank you.
	Thank you for having me.
	Bastion is a decentralized, non-corporate social network.
	That's the short of it.
	But it solves very specific problems for us and for you.
	It is built with the idea that we are entering into a time where we're going to be faced with two problems, two major, many problems, but two major problems on the internet.
	One is that we believe that there's going to be censorship.
	Not like you've seen before.
	Not like one or two bloggers here or a dozen bloggers.
	No.
	A concerted effort to silence certain opinion by blocking websites, by possibly shutting down portions of the World Wide Web.
	Like shutting down what's called DNS, where you type in a website name, it will not work.
	You will only have special, you know, state-approved websites that will work for you.
	Whether it's a hacker attack or something, we don't know.
	But that's one threat that you should be thinking about when things get really deteriorated and you look out the window in your hometown and you don't know what's going on.
	That's a very scary feeling, right?
	It's more scarier than even being in some bad situation because of the fact that you don't know.
	You have no access to information.
	All you have is state-approved information, nothing to worry about, stay in your home, you know, blah, blah, blah.
	The second threat that Bastion is dealing with is the threat to our privacy.
	Most people, historically, they thought, well, it's an ideological issue.
	I just don't like...
	I like to be private and other people don't necessarily like to be private.
	It's not a big deal.
	But this is very practical.
	We're entering into a period where we already have a model of China where your personal comments or even personal messages will be used against you.
	Like in China, if you write something to your friend that is disloyal to the government, you may not be able to buy tickets to the train or you may not be able to buy food, for that matter.
	We know that...
	I am telling you, this is coming.
	In fact, just a couple of days ago, I say this all the time, but like two or three days ago, there's a news story came out.
	I don't know if you've seen it.
	Facebook spied on private messages of people who were politically disloyal and then reported them to the government.
	I mean, this is, can you imagine that those are your personal messages?
	But you know what I told you and many people told you.
	So in Bastion, first of all, the messenger that is used is fully encrypted, peer-to-peer encrypted.
	There's no way to read it in between.
	But more importantly, there's no connection to your identity.
	It's not your name, not your phone number, not even your email.
	So privacy and censorship resistance are the two reasons for existence of Bastion.
	It's completely different from most other social media.
	So bastion.com, for someone who says, I like this, this is interesting, it is a website, it is a social media platform.
	What is it per se so that we understand what it is?
	It's a website that contains a social media platform that's built on decentralized nodes.
	These nodes actually work like Bitcoin because all of Bastion lives on computers around the world, users' computers.
	That's how it works.
	So it has no central server.
	Nobody could come and say, turn off this machine or these machines.
	They're spread around dozens of countries.
	There are hundreds of them.
	And because of that, when you go to bastion.com, bastion.com is a website.
	It's like a window into Bastion.
	But the real Bastion is an app.
	You can get an app for your computer.
	You can also get it for your phone.
	But I really recommend to get it for your computer.
	When you sign on to Bastion, within a minute, you'll get a banner saying, please download the desktop app because it's the most secure way.
	When you download that app for Mac or Windows or Linux...
	It will actually connect directly to these nodes around the world.
	So guess what?
	When the internet is shut down, you know, banks don't open, go on a holiday, whatever, you will have a way, an app that works.
	I'll give you an example.
	About a year ago, there was a kind of revolution in Kazakhstan.
	You know, actually, coincidentally, country where I was born.
	And the government, to quell the protests, they shut down large parts of the internet.
	But they cannot shut down the whole internet because they themselves depend on the communication.
	They shut down DNS.
	So if you type in, you know, any website, it didn't work.
	Our viewers, one of them sent a video who in Kazakhstan was using the desktop app and he knew exactly what was going on in the country because the whole social media worked for him.
	He could message with friends.
	And everything works.
	So the desktop app works even in very extreme circumstances.
	Now, of course, it's like if the whole power grid is down, the whole internet is down, nothing works, right?
	But in that case, it's a very different story.
	I don't believe that the powers that ought not to be, they really want that kind of situation.
	I think it's a controlled demolition, not just anything goes.
	Now, just so that we understand ourselves, every now and then, someone will come along and they say, we have a new platform.
	Whether it's Truth Social, or it's, this is the one, this is the one that will be completely impervious.
	Remember Parler?
	Parler, this is it!
	Well, until Parler realized...
	Who's handling, and please forgive me if I use the wrong term, whether it's the server or the cloud or whatever it was, until I think it went to Amazon or something and they said, sorry about that.
	And I don't even know if Parler's even in existence.
	They're like the Edsel of this.
	So do not be confused.
	Do not be lulled.
	And this is not in any way a slam against those other platforms, but we're not talking about YouTube or Twitter or Facebook, we're talking about the basis for this, your ability to enter the highway, so to speak.
	And let me just also, I don't need to tell you this.
	One of the things that changes, that changed humanity, was the ability to communicate through language, through symbols, through numbers, printing press, radio.
	Every aspect of human development always depended upon our ability to exchange information.
	It is fundamental, not just to political existence, but humanity itself.
	I can't emphasize this enough.
	And it seems to me, Daniel, so obvious.
	I don't know who it is, irrespective of who, what, when, where, why.
	But our ability to communicate and also have something, as you said, so perfectly.
	Something that is seemingly innocuous, harmless, anodyne.
	Later on, put through a different lens, and then you're haunted by this.
	And you have to explain the context.
	So, you are preaching to the choir here, my friend.
	Yeah, well, that's great.
	I think that a lot of people are waking up.
	And then, you know, in communication, I could give you another example.
	Since I'm a math geek, you know, there's game theory.
	There's something called game theory.
	Sure.
	And there's an idea called signaling.
	Well, in most games, if you're playing the game and we're playing this game, right?
	All of us trying a game of life and trying to stay free and make our kids grow up normal people without, you know, without kind of some garbage being, you know, shoved down their throat and into their mind.
	Well, in order to...
	Keep the world that we have, even now, right?
	Keep the freedom that we have.
	We need to be able to communicate because in game theory, when players cannot signal to each other, they usually lose the collective game.
	Okay, so it's like there's an idea of prisoner's dilemma.
	It's the most simple one where there are two people in different rooms and they don't talk to each other.
	And they're encouraged to, you know, basically...
	Rat the other one out because they say, well, the other one is already telling stuff about you.
	Whoever tells us more.
	It's a very simple example of this, but in reality, in this society, there are a lot of us.
	There are a lot of us, but if we're not able to signal to each other, then we are gone.
	It's like as if we don't exist.
	It doesn't matter how many of us.
	We could be in the vast majority, but we'll be powerless because we can't communicate.
	I'm all for alternative platforms, but Bastion, we worked on specifically for dire situations.
	So for me, I'm a math geek and a risk manager.
	Those are the kind of two areas that intersect for me.
	So I thought about the logical conclusion of this, and the logical conclusion is that they will have to go to the max, like in China, where it's basically, there are a lot of people, a lot of people in China, they can't do anything.
	Because they can't signal each other.
	They can't talk to each other in any way.
	And that's the end goal, is to prevent us from talking to each other, separate us, you know, lock down, whatever.
	And then we're just, we're powerless.
	We're talking to Daniel Sachkov, who is the inventor of Bastion.
	Would you please explain to me how the...
	How pocket coin works and what that is.
	Again, and speak very slowly to someone who knows nothing, but has a fecund and fertile imagination who is a quick learner.
	Yeah, cool.
	So for me, I like to understand and explain things by their cause, the reason for existence.
	Before I explain what it is technically.
	Why does it exist?
	Why is PocketCoin in existence?
	So it is a cryptocurrency.
	It's a token within Bastion.
	But the reason that exists, specific reason, is to prevent financial censorship.
	Because remember, censorship can be of very different kinds.
	We're talking about technological censorship.
	Like Parler had their servers shut down.
	Like you said, that's technological censorship.
	When you centralize your technology, you can be disrupted.
	If there's a real need, You can be disrupted.
	There is censorship.
	There's legal censorship.
	If there's a corporation, it can be forced through legal means to stop doing whatever corporations do.
	Bastion, by the way, is not.
	It's just an open-source project.
	It's like torrent or Bitcoin.
	So there are a lot of people involved.
	I'm not even a programmer.
	I'm kind of a designer and inventor of this thing.
	But there's also financial censorship, and that's what I'm getting to.
	You know, the financial censorship will be like...
	Close the bank accounts of this entity.
	Stop the PayPal transfers.
	We know this stuff, right?
	Patreon, and so on and so forth.
	So PocketCoin is actually an internal cryptocurrency that exists to make sure that people who provide value in Bastion, who do something, they get paid.
	For example, Blogger, I don't know if you like to call yourself that, but...
	You're an author on the internet, and I've dealt with quite a few people like that lately, and I'm amazed as to how much work it takes.
	I used to believe it's a very easy job, but now I know it's not.
	It's actually extremely difficult because you're researching a lot, and you're responsible for any mistake you made.
	Basically, it's a very stressful and hard job.
	So you can't expect a blogger to necessarily work a full-time job and then produce such a great content.
	It's not going to work.
	So a blogger needs to get paid.
	But if we use bank accounts, we'd be shut down, or PayPal.
	So there is pocket coin that's essentially earned by authors in Bastion.
	It's also earned by the note holders.
	These are computer owners that run Bastion.
	Again, there's hundreds of them around the world.
	Think about it this way.
	In order to run Bastion, there needs to be electricity, internet bandwidth, hardware.
	Normally, those things come from investors.
	You get money from investors.
	And you buy all this hardware.
	But then what happens?
	You're beholden to these investors.
	If they want to censor you, they can censor you or they can force you to do something.
	Whereas in Bastion, it's not like that.
	Anybody, even you, any user can just spin up a node and run it on your computer.
	You expand electricity, but you earn pocket coin.
	Pocket coin, therefore, is essentially a financial system within Bastion that gets rid of the legacy banking.
	Now, the question that should be asked then is like, well, why is it valuable?
	Why would it be valuable if it's a token?
	Well, it's valuable because it is also used in Bastion for many different tasks.
	As an example, in Bastion, you can promote your post.
	You can promote and increase its standing in the feed and, among other, basically be heard.
	And that you can do only with pocket coins.
	So as the network grows, there's already people who...
	We'll buy pocket coin on exchanges, traded on some exchanges and peer to peer.
	It can be converted to Bitcoin very easily and back.
	People will buy pocket coin and they will use it to promote their content.
	If you think about that, that is very valuable because if you go, you know, YouTube and Google and Facebook, they all live on that.
	Now, Bastion is not nearly as big because we don't have all this VC money.
	It's got about half a million of registered users, but it's about 2 million visitors a month right now.
	So it's a medium-sized, medium-to-smaller-sized network, but it's growing fast.
	It's growing really fast.
	And the thing about it is if you're an advertiser, you have something to advertise.
	It's very profitable to buy PocketCoin and just advertise it on Bastion.
	And it's very easy.
	Think about it this way.
	There's like water and nature, right?
	Water has its own cycle.
	It will go into the clouds and then, well, now they messed all that up.
	But normally, there's a cycle of water and nature.
	Financial system is also like that.
	You as a blogger, you earn pocket coin for great content.
	Then you have to buy food.
	You sell it for Bitcoin or Bitcoin then is easily converted or whatever.
	But the person who needs to advertise on Bastion will buy that pocket coin and put it back in.
	You know, so it cycles like this.
	That's the idea of Bastia, and it's still a work in progress, but it is not in any way reliant on legacy.
	That's important.
	Legacy banking is the death knell to any free speech.
	You can be free speech if you want.
	Yes, yes.
	If you depend on a bank, that's it.
	You have nothing.
	Well, first, a couple of things here.
	Isn't it something where you said, wow, we've got two million?
	We're just starting off.
	So just think about that.
	Think about anything, any endeavor, Daniel, with two million people and you're just kind of getting your, you're putting your toe in the water.
	That's number one.
	Number two, look at what happened.
	How many times are people, do you hear of people who try to raise money for a particular cause and then that shut down?
	Sorry, we don't like that cause.
	Yes, but I'm raising this money for an operation.
	Sorry.
	We don't like the operation.
	And we don't like you.
	And what I'm saying is that people become habituated to it.
	Now, for those like me who have to always answer this question, what do I have to hide?
	Why am I being censored?
	Bastion is not completely Wild West.
	There are limitations as to what can be presented.
	Is that correct, sir?
	Yes.
	who have spent a lot of time on the platform.
	So they earned the status to be moderators.
	Because again, we don't have like VCs to pay moderators.
	These users, they will...
	mostly be very interested in the platform surviving, right?
	They're not going to do crazy stuff.
	Right.
	They're also usually believers in free speech because they join very early.
	Now they vote for prohibited content, but the key difference with Bastion is that the prohibited content policy is Not only it's community-enforced, but it's very, very clear.
	It's very simple.
	There's no vague terms like hate speech.
	There are essentially three kinds of content that are prohibited.
	It's pornography of any kind, it's direct threat of violence, and it's narcotics.
	We don't want these things on the platform.
	This is not, basically, it's off the platform.
	Now, we may add, for protection of the creators, that you don't copy somebody who already posted something.
	But really, there's never going to be a policy ambassador that says, well, if it's hate speech, because you can't define it.
	Hate speech is just something I don't like.
	So we have very clear and simple rules.
	Therefore, for moderators, they don't have to sit there and guess and use their political preferences and so on.
	It's very simple, right?
	Is this it or not?
	Is this pornography?
	Remove it.
	And it's being cleaned.
	In fact, the system of moderation is being enhanced.
	There's a new release coming where It's going to become a jury of peers.
	And now moderators just scan the feed of posts and they can flag the posts.
	And there's enough flags, it's gone.
	But in this jury system, moderators can no longer choose who to moderate.
	That's another protection for freedom of speech.
	Because as the platform gets bigger, you would imagine that, oh, let me embed some moderators and get Lyle off of a bastion, right?
	That's not going to work because in this jury that's coming out soon, The moderators are going to get chosen for jury duty.
	They're not going to choose who to moderate.
	So you never know who you're going to get.
	And then you cast your vote, and it has to be unanimous, eight people jury.
	It has to be unanimous to take some action.
	So, yes, it's not free-for-all because, you know, it will be disgusting, and this platform is actually very clean, and we want to keep it that way.
	And you would have, not to be, dare I say, Daniel, Conspiratorial.
	As the great Gore Vidal said, I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
	I'm a conspiracy analyst.
	But I could see people coming in and deliberately trying to destroy something because they don't like what you're doing and using their rules.
	So also, and another thing too is, one of the things which I find interesting is that I'm a lawyer by profession.
	Due process is what I believe in.
	That basically involves two things.
	Notice and the opportunity to be heard.
	Number one, I have to tell you, you did something.
	It's got to be clear.
	Can't be vague.
	Can't be, you violated this rule when you said this.
	I can't use terms like, your particular speech is injurious.
	It's problematic.
	It's hateful.
	Because hate involves an intent, an animus.
	Why?
	What motivated you?
	It's the most ridiculous thing in the world.
	What if I hate terrorism?
	Well, that's okay.
	So it's selective hate.
	And also, the opportunity to be heard.
	You need a means to be able to address what I think.
	That what I did did not fall within this particular rule on regular conventional media, social media platforms.
	We don't hear this.
	Daniel, do you recall?
	This is terrible when I tell people this.
	It sounds like Methuselah.
	During 20 years ago, when the internet, when YouTube and everything was started, it was great.
	I mean, it was not the Wild West, but it was fun.
	It was exciting.
	You could see anything.
	And if you didn't like it, Guess what you did?
	You turned it off!
	You went someplace else!
	Imagine that!
	Nobody held a gun to your head and said, you've got to watch this stupid bread baking video.
	No, you went someplace else.
	And then all of a sudden, overnight, despite Section 230 and the Communications Decency Act, which said these people are not...
	Publishers.
	They're going to be granted immunity because they're not publishers.
	What do they do?
	They act like publishers.
	They started kicking people off.
	And it was just done overnight.
	And it hasn't reverted.
	And what do most people do?
	Nothing.
	They just, well, I got a phenyhyde.
	That's for somebody else to worry about.
	They're not going to come after me.
	I'm boring.
	Those were the days, my friend.
	Yeah.
	Totally.
	And I think that, unfortunately, the logic of the corporate social media platform in this day and age of free money by the Fed dictates that they become monopolists.
	It's just inevitable.
	They grow and grow, and they get free money.
	A small business couldn't get 0% interest rate loans.
	They couldn't get all this capital, but Facebook could.
	What did they do?
	They bought everything in sight.
	That's not even capitalism, because in capitalism, you have to have some...
	Way to lose, right?
	You gamble and you lose.
	Whereas if you have free money, technically, you cannot lose.
	No matter how many stupid mistakes you made, you will eventually buy the world.
	So they ended up buying everything.
	And when they bought everything in this course, they said, we don't need to buy anything anymore.
	We just can basically turn people into mine slaves.
	And this is the problem.
	I think a lot of people are waking up, though.
	But people who are still using YouTube and Facebook, remember, you're...
	Being tracked every step of the way.
	Like you pause your mouse on the screen, it goes into a neural network with your psychological profile.
	And because humans are not rational beings, you should understand that.
	Humans are mostly irrational beings.
	And we think with what's called heuristics, you know, this is a quick decision, otherwise we wouldn't survive, right?
	Rationally, you can't survive most of the time.
	So these heuristics are actually kind of...
	Gaping holes in your defense, in your psychological defense.
	And they know all that about you.
	They gather all this data.
	They sell it to the bidder, to any bidder.
	They give it to the government.
	They give it to anybody.
	So when you're using old school social media, you're essentially giving them the rope to hang you with.
	And you may think you're boring today, but we've seen how this kind of window is moving, right?
	Things that were completely normal to say some time ago are now punishable offense.
	And who knows where it's going to go.
	It is better to think about using platforms that don't track you.
	And this is really, really important.
	That's why we made it so you're not connected to your name or your mobile number.
	A few years ago, people thought, and they said to us, why do you even need that?
	Because it makes it really much harder.
	When you create a platform that doesn't take personal data, it's much harder to fight bots.
	And we had to do a lot of work to fight bots because of that, a lot of extra work.
	But we persevered because we knew.
	That this is very valuable.
	Well, now people who are in Bastion all this time, they boast their opinions and they send stuff to friends.
	They don't have to worry about somebody going, you know, let me look at what you wrote here and, you know, using that against you, right?
	Some agency will not look over your records or financial, whatever.
	So it's important to keep your privacy.
	I believe the privacy is for law-abiding citizens.
	Criminals will find a way to communicate, and the true law enforcement can find them without getting law-abiding people's data, because law-abiding people's data just confuses things.
	It's just too much, too much noise.
	So law-abiding people have to seek out privacy, because I believe that this is a time where we're heading towards something like China, and it's a much better idea to have secure communications.
	Now, by the way, Daniel, on the website here, I have asked people to watch my videos on Bastion.
	I have my URL.
	And if people comment twice on my post and Bastion, they'll receive two pocket coins as a gift.
	Is that correct?
	Yeah, it's true.
	We're going to scan the chain.
	This might take a week or two.
	Everybody, we've done it for bloggers in the US.
	It's a temporary thing.
	It's you and a few other bloggers.
	So yeah, if you comment twice, you'll be credited a pocket coin.
	The team will just send it to you.
	Just wait a week or two.
	It will get to the account.
	Do you ever feel that one of the biggest impediments you have, Daniel, is people saying, you can't have privacy.
	And by the way, privacy, I think, is a wrong word.
	I mean, I just want to be left alone.
	I don't care if people know who I am.
	Just leave me alone.
	That's really it.
	But have you noticed there's this incredulity that people have?
	We've been so conditioned to this.
	Can you really do that?
	Do you really think you're going to have something where you protect my rights?
	Isn't that just normal?
	It's like we've become accustomed to our own captivity.
	Does that make sense?
	Yes, and I don't think people realize how dangerous this is.
	This is not about just somebody, you know, reading your messages and finding something untoward, blackmailing you, even though that could happen very easily, too, because all the data is going to be open to hackers.
	I mean, think about all the messages you write, like your kids are going to read them one day or your great kids.
	They're all going to be out.
	They're all going to be out.
	Centralized data is going to be hacked and it's going to be released, I guarantee you.
	But it's deeper than that.
	I mean, I think civilization, and particularly Christian civilization, starts where you have privacy.
	It's like there are some things that are unsaid that you don't show.
	You don't have a bathroom with the glass walls.
	There's a reason.
	Think about that.
	Yeah, there's nothing to hide.
	It's very ordinary what goes on in there.
	But is that normal?
	The whole civilization is about...
	Being protective of some areas of your life.
	And so I believe that, yeah, social media, maybe when you're posted, like you, Lionel, when you post, you don't have privacy.
	And that's normal.
	That's the path you chose.
	There's no privacy expected or given.
	And for me, I'm talking about Bastian.
	I don't expect to hide this.
	But there are areas where you do want to keep privacy.
	And that's what civilization is about.
	I think that's what makes us...
	Actually, like human to some degree, right?
	To a large degree.
	Because animals generally don't care about privacy.
	Sometimes they do, but most of the time they don't.
	Whereas we have some areas of our life that we want to keep to ourselves.
	It doesn't mean they're criminal or even untoward.
	Oh, exactly.
	Yeah.
	Well, exactly.
	The whole notion of privacy.
	When I always ask people, I said...
	Do you ever pull your shades down when we used to use envelopes and we send mail?
	Do you ever lick the back of it?
	Why don't you just leave it?
	Do you lock your door?
	What do you have to hide?
	Again, as a lawyer, I always refer to this, here's my beloved Constitution.
	And the Fourth Amendment deals, by the way, these protections have nothing to do with criminals, or excuse me, with innocent people.
	They deal with people charged with criminal offenses.
	And one of the things is, is that...
	You have the right to have warrants before we go and search.
	This is the most important thing to the foundation of a civilization is you require privacy and you don't have to explain to somebody why you want privacy.
	The burden is not on you to justify the audacious activity on your part of saying, leave me alone.
	Don't look here.
	I just want to...
	Listen, the fact that I'm even saying this goes to show you how this universe has devolved.
	We don't even have to explain it.
	We don't even have to discuss this because it seems given that you need to have...
	What people don't understand, I think, is that they're fooled by the fact that, well, I have my smartphone.
	It looks like it's mine.
	The smartphone is not yours.
	The smartphone is maybe your prison guard one day, but it's not yours per se.
	It's something that's with you that serves some purpose.
	But technology in general, technology always means centralization.
	And centralization always means that fewer people can control a larger number of people.
	That's normal.
	That's the course of history.
	That's kind of just embedded, right?
	But the nice thing about the universe we live in is that there is asymmetry, a pleasant asymmetry.
	What I mean by that is as the technology centralization grows, those people who dare to think for themselves, there are tools for them to defend against that.
	So in other words, think of like cryptography, right?
	It's one of my favorite sciences.
	It's numbers theory.
	This cryptography is a way to hide.
	It's actually privacy, but privacy.
	It's a way to hide things.
	So to hide things, you need much less computing power than to crack them.
	In other words, to encrypt something, you need one one millionth of a computing power or one one billionth of computing power that is needed to crack the code.
	So we, as individuals, It's not hopeless for us.
	We don't have to give in to this as long as we seek out tools.
	If we don't seek out any tools, then pretty soon we're going to be like a herd.
	Oh, you know what?
	I've got to stop because every time you say something, one of my favorite studies and subjects is Gustave Le Bon and the notion of crowd theory and oclocracies and how...
	Crowds and mobs and how birds fly with murmurations and how we lose our soul sometimes to the membership of the group.
	And we lose our sense of self.
	And we nod in obeisance.
	We're like pack animals.
	Anyway, I'm getting...
	I'm very familiar with LeBond's work.
	I'm nodding, but for a reason that I love his books.
	It's incredible.
	Well, Daniel Sachkov, to close with this most fascinating discussion that I hope we have again and again, final words.
	What do people know, and why should someone look into this immediately now?
	For the two reasons I started with.
	We're entering a time where, first, you're really going to have a difficult time to access diverse information.
	You're going to be fed some narrative.
	Other narratives will be shut down and we haven't seen anything yet.
	There'll be websites shut down.
	There'll probably be a hacker attack or internet is down.
	Who knows what's going to happen?
	You have to be ready.
	If you're not ready, you're going to be sitting in your home or in your apartment looking out the window and not knowing what's going on out there.
	That's a very bad spot to be in.
	And secondly, I believe that you have to start protecting your private life, protecting your messages.
	I mean, if the Facebook story didn't convince you, think about it.
	They read personal messages without a warrant and they send them to some government agency.
	I don't know if it's IRS or whatever, right?
	That's crazy.
	And they own WhatsApp, one of the biggest messaging apps in the world.
	And if you're using that, that's like sitting in the glass house, you know, or glass bathroom, I'm sorry.
	That's why I think you should look at Bastian or other tools, right?
	Or if you're able, create other tools.
	If you just look and look for tools that asymmetrically will help you fight this centralization, which eventually will leave no breathing room for us.
	And very soon, if we don't take steps to fight back.
	Again, the link is if you can watch my videos on Bastian here.
	I have my custom URL where people can link.
	And if you comment twice on my post and Bastion, you'll receive two pocket coins as a gift.
	I love when people say free gift, which is the ultimate and redundant.
	If it costs, why is it a gift?
	But that's for another subject.
	Daniel Sachko, as I've said, and I will say it again, it was such a pleasure speaking with you.
	Not only is the subject matter fascinating, but this new technology is so cutting edge.
	It's exciting.
	And nothing that I see on the horizon is even remotely exciting today.
	So I thank you, sir.
	Thank you for having me.
	I love talking about this, and I hope everybody understands my passion, that it's driven by an analysis of the real world and, unfortunately, where we are heading.
	But I don't think it's all dark.
	I think if enough of us take the steps, then it's not going to be so bad or so easy for them.
	Precisely.
	Daniel Satchkov, thank you so very much, sir.
	Take care.

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